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Subject: "So nobody's watching the democratic debate?" Previous topic | Next topic
ThaTruth
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99998 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 09:32 PM

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"So nobody's watching the democratic debate?"


          

O'Malley is killing, too bad he doesn't have a shot...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Hillary struggling imo
Jan 17th 2016
1
yep...
Jan 17th 2016
3
There's nothing in the world wrong with being Obama 2.0
Jan 17th 2016
35
Bernie is going to have a heart attack he gets so angry lol
Jan 17th 2016
2
He's already losing his voice lol
Jan 17th 2016
4
      ri-colaaaaaa
Jan 17th 2016
5
           Hey, that could be a serious enforcement.
Jan 17th 2016
7
                What other enforcements can you see for him?
Jan 17th 2016
12
                     lol..I think he meant 'endorsement'
Jan 17th 2016
21
                          yeahidid...lol
Jan 18th 2016
45
Bernie is Swinging for the Fence tonight. Clinton is a can response.
Jan 17th 2016
6
Do they ever talk about foreign policy issues?
Jan 17th 2016
8
Clinton would do well if they did. But I don't want here as the POTUS
Jan 17th 2016
9
Usually there are set debate themes.
Jan 17th 2016
36
Clinton would get roasted.
Jan 26th 2016
107
Dems gonna fuck up votin for Bernie and lose the election
Jan 17th 2016
10
This is what I think
Jan 17th 2016
31
As callous as it sounds I'd rather risk Bernie losing than elect Clinton...
Jan 17th 2016
32
listen: there will be NO remodeling of the system no matter what happens
Jan 17th 2016
33
I hate to say this, because I really do respect you,
Jan 18th 2016
38
      I think Bernie winning would signal something Obama's victory didn't.
Jan 22nd 2016
78
C'mon
Jan 18th 2016
48
      Head to head polls are completely useless at this point.
Jan 18th 2016
54
           RE: Head to head polls are completely useless at this point.
Jan 19th 2016
60
                That's not even an exaggeration.
Jan 19th 2016
65
Yup.
Jan 18th 2016
37
      Dude, I respect you, but c'mon @ this:
Jan 18th 2016
43
      Bernie is the best thing for Hilary, IMO
Jan 19th 2016
61
           RE: Bernie is the best thing for Hilary, IMO
Jan 19th 2016
68
Bernie is killing Clinton with the facts of his record.
Jan 17th 2016
11
Bernie should get Clinton for her negative comments about Obama in 08
Jan 17th 2016
13
Clinton never answers the question that's asked. When she tries she lies...
Jan 17th 2016
14
Nope. She's too dirty. She's a Plutocrat
Jan 17th 2016
....out here like...
Jan 17th 2016
17
Bernie is killing. O'Malley is trying but Lester doesn't want to...
Jan 17th 2016
15
The Media is in the tank for Clinton.
Jan 17th 2016
18
I know and she's doing a bunch of grandstanding.
Jan 17th 2016
20
      She's about leaving a legacy for her name not helping this country.
Jan 17th 2016
22
           exactly.
Jan 17th 2016
24
Dude hasn't been able to cut off Bernie or Hillary but he shut
Jan 17th 2016
19
      Word. That was painful to watch.
Jan 17th 2016
23
           O'Malley needs to just wild out and keep talking.
Jan 17th 2016
26
                He really has nothing to lose in doing so.
Jan 17th 2016
28
                     Hell, I'd love to see him as Bernie's VP....
Jan 17th 2016
30
Bernie is pissed tonight. He is killing Clinton.
Jan 17th 2016
16
#DatBernieTho -- gloves off.
Jan 17th 2016
25
Vex!!! Where have you been? Good to see you.
Jan 17th 2016
27
thanks bruh.
Jan 18th 2016
57
      Things are going well, this year is starting off very well.
Jan 18th 2016
58
The tax thing was a weak spot, but only because some people
Jan 17th 2016
29
Hillary want to take credit for everyhting Obama AND Bill did
Jan 17th 2016
34
http://s14.postimg.org/uaeebs38f/image.gif
Jan 18th 2016
39
It was a wash....
Jan 18th 2016
40
Nate Silver breaks down the debate....
Jan 18th 2016
41
though it's the right thing to do, LMMFAO @ Hill Dogg piggybacking off O...
Jan 18th 2016
42
Did you hear that blackies? Bernie insulted Chief Obama!!!
Jan 18th 2016
44
did this debate seem fixed or kinda phishy to anyone?
Jan 18th 2016
46
my only thing is it seems the DNC doesnt want anyone to watch
Jan 18th 2016
49
RE: my only thing is it seems the DNC doesnt want anyone to watch
Jan 18th 2016
51
      Sunday is for football. And it's outside of any sort of news cycle
Jan 18th 2016
52
           RE: Sunday is for football. And it's outside of any sort of news cycle
Jan 18th 2016
53
                I'm a bit surprised by that
Jan 18th 2016
55
DNC *been* tipping the scales for Clinton. It's a travesty.
Jan 18th 2016
56
Didn't even realize until recently Tommy Carcetti was based on O'malley
Jan 18th 2016
47
Oh wow. Once you say it, it seems obvious.
Jan 18th 2016
50
That is what folks here call Martin (Carcetti)
Jan 26th 2016
108
Chait makes the case against Bernie pretty well.
Jan 18th 2016
59
i dig Bernie a lot and i agree w/this piece.
Jan 19th 2016
62
This is garbage
Jan 19th 2016
63
      right:
Jan 19th 2016
64
      2 Bern hit pieces days after the Dem debate...?
Jan 19th 2016
70
Funny how Bernie's unrealistic radicalism doesn't extend to reparations.
Jan 19th 2016
66
Like Obama, white supremacy is not a big issue for Bernie
Jan 19th 2016
67
RE: My hope was to talk to Sanders directly
Jan 19th 2016
69
      Did you even glance at the article?
Jan 19th 2016
71
      Thats a pretty foolish angle IMO
Jan 19th 2016
75
           RE: Thats a pretty foolish angle IMO
Jan 26th 2016
98
                It is when that topic hasn't even been breached yet
Jan 26th 2016
101
      Coates was like "i waited 3 days to hear from the campaign"
Jan 19th 2016
72
I wonder who Coates is supporting?
Jan 19th 2016
74
Huge lead for Bern-dogg in NH.
Jan 19th 2016
73
The what?
Jan 19th 2016
76
Hillary's getting that old familiar feeling, Bern leading big in Iowa
Jan 22nd 2016
77
They're doing a town hall tonight and didn't tell anybody
Jan 25th 2016
79
RE: They're doing a town hall tonight and it was terrible
Jan 26th 2016
80
RE: They're doing a town hall tonight and didn't tell anybody
Jan 26th 2016
81
CNN advertized the shit out of it.
Jan 26th 2016
104
      Other news channels
Jan 26th 2016
110
           Well this was definitely mentioned on MSNBC.
Jan 26th 2016
111
I woke up in the middle of the night wonder, Did I really want another
Jan 26th 2016
82
RE: I woke up in the middle of the night wonder, Did I really want anoth...
Jan 26th 2016
83
Agreed but I am not excited about it. I'd love a woman president but...
Jan 26th 2016
85
      Obamania made us all think that we're supposed to be
Jan 26th 2016
86
      RE: Agreed but I am not excited about it. I'd love a woman president but...
Jan 26th 2016
88
      man, a lot of people just don't like Hillary
Jan 26th 2016
89
      I'm trying to remain open minded and listen to her
Jan 26th 2016
90
           RE: that doesn't really answer the question asked
Jan 26th 2016
95
           i'm voting for her but i don't listen to her at all.
Jan 26th 2016
97
                RE: i'm voting for her but i don't listen to her at all.
Jan 26th 2016
100
      fools voted for W over Gore in part b/c they preferred to have a beer
Jan 26th 2016
93
      But that's how many people are going to continue to vote. Even now
Jan 26th 2016
102
      *shrugs*
Jan 26th 2016
105
      But that's how many people are going to continue to vote. Even now
Jan 26th 2016
103
      It was more than just an "emotional" connection with Obama, he...
Jan 26th 2016
114
           RE: It was more than just an "emotional" conne...
Jan 26th 2016
115
                RE: It was more than just an "emotional" conne...
Jan 26th 2016
117
                     RE: It was more than just an "emotional" conne...
Jan 26th 2016
119
                     RE: It was more than just an "emotional&quo...
Jan 26th 2016
121
                          RE: being married to an ex President...
Jan 26th 2016
122
                               RE: being married to an ex President...
Jan 26th 2016
124
                     RE: It was more than just an "emotional" conne...
Jan 26th 2016
120
      RE: Elizabeth Warren
Jan 26th 2016
92
           Warren is not a candidate.
Jan 26th 2016
94
                RE: get the fuck over it.
Jan 26th 2016
96
                     no, i don't.
Jan 26th 2016
99
                     he is mad because he smells what the political kitchen is cooking
Jan 26th 2016
123
^ dat 3am phone call.
Jan 26th 2016
84
By the way, the white dude I ride for Robert Reich came out for Bernie
Jan 26th 2016
87
LOL, I've been linking Inequality for All as a reply to alot of propagan...
Jan 26th 2016
91
And one of the few economists I respect more, Paul Krugman,
Jan 26th 2016
106
      This part of Krugman's piece seems to inadvertently support Sanders
Jan 26th 2016
109
      Obama campaigned on Obamacare and got Obamacare.
Jan 26th 2016
112
           RE: Obama campaigned on Obamacare and got Obamacare.
Jan 26th 2016
113
      "Mr Sanders is the heir to candidate Obama"
Jan 26th 2016
116
           ^ i read and agreed w/that recently.
Jan 26th 2016
118

PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 09:35 PM

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1. "Hillary struggling imo"
In response to Reply # 0


          

She's pushing too hard to be Obama 2.0
Her whole campaign seems like a continuation of Obama's term. Doesn't want to set herself apart

_______________________________________

  

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ThaTruth
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99998 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 09:42 PM

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3. "yep..."
In response to Reply # 1


          

>She's pushing too hard to be Obama 2.0
>Her whole campaign seems like a continuation of Obama's term.
>Doesn't want to set herself apart

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 11:49 PM

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35. "There's nothing in the world wrong with being Obama 2.0"
In response to Reply # 1


          


The only candidate I'd be more confident of in 2016 than Hillary Clinton is Barack Obama.

  

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rdhull
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33140 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 09:42 PM

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2. "Bernie is going to have a heart attack he gets so angry lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 09:44 PM

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4. "He's already losing his voice lol"
In response to Reply # 2


          

They need to toss him a Ricola during the next break

_______________________________________

  

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rdhull
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Sun Jan-17-16 09:45 PM

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5. "ri-colaaaaaa"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>They need to toss him a Ricola during the next break

  

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Case_One
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54687 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 09:47 PM

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7. "Hey, that could be a serious enforcement. "
In response to Reply # 5


          


.
.
.

  

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DJPoke
Member since May 14th 2008
1285 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 09:55 PM

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12. "What other enforcements can you see for him? "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          



  

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rdhull
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Sun Jan-17-16 10:02 PM

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21. "lol..I think he meant 'endorsement'"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>
>
>

  

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Case_One
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Mon Jan-18-16 01:41 PM

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45. "yeahidid...lol"
In response to Reply # 21


          


.
.
.

  

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Case_One
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Sun Jan-17-16 09:46 PM

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6. "Bernie is Swinging for the Fence tonight. Clinton is a can response. "
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Sun Jan-17-16 09:49 PM

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8. "Do they ever talk about foreign policy issues?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Maybe they don't want to Clinton's hawkish views on display?

_______________________________________

  

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Case_One
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Sun Jan-17-16 09:50 PM

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9. "Clinton would do well if they did. But I don't want here as the POTUS"
In response to Reply # 8


          


.
.
.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 11:52 PM

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36. "Usually there are set debate themes. "
In response to Reply # 8


          


Pretty loosely held to, admittedly.

But also, there just isn't much difference between the candidates in foreign policy issues. (Not that there's much on other issues either...)

  

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Castro
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Tue Jan-26-16 02:43 PM

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107. "Clinton would get roasted."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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rdhull
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Sun Jan-17-16 09:54 PM

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10. "Dems gonna fuck up votin for Bernie and lose the election"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Mori
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Sun Jan-17-16 10:39 PM

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31. "This is what I think"
In response to Reply # 10


          

I mean I get that Bernie is the Anti-clinton but really has no chance against Trump.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 10:44 PM

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32. "As callous as it sounds I'd rather risk Bernie losing than elect Clinton..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Best case scenario, Benrie wins and it signals a true sea change in the American system.

Second Best Scenario: Trump is elected and he fucks up so bad the Republican party actually does fracture and this signals a true sea change in the American system. Hell, it might even FORCE America to do some internal remodeling.

Worst Case Scenario: Clinton wins and we limp along with our oligarchy.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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rdhull
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33. "listen: there will be NO remodeling of the system no matter what happens"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>Best case scenario, Benrie wins and it signals a true sea
>change in the American system.
>
>Second Best Scenario: Trump is elected and he fucks up so bad
>the Republican party actually does fracture and this signals a
>true sea change in the American system. Hell, it might even
>FORCE America to do some internal remodeling.
>
>Worst Case Scenario: Clinton wins and we limp along with our
>oligarchy.
>
>
>"All the world's a stage,
>And all the men and women merely players:
>They have their exits and their entrances;
>And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Jan-18-16 12:17 AM

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38. "I hate to say this, because I really do respect you,"
In response to Reply # 32
Mon Jan-18-16 12:19 AM by stravinskian

          

but that's a childish and naive position.

You really think Bernie winning would lead to a sea-change in the American system? If Barack Obama couldn't bring that sea change, there isn't a chance that Bernie Sanders could do it. Anyone who thinks Bernie Sanders would be any less hated and reviled for his reasonable positions than Barack Obama was, is full of shit.

You really think Trump fucking up would lead to any fundamental change in the Republican party? Let alone the country? Nobody thought Reagan could win. When he did, people thought he'd fuck up so badly that the American people would see their mistake. Reagan fucked up spectacularly, and he's been revered for it ever since. He's revered because assholes liked him, just like how assholes like Donald Trump.

It feels good to think there's an oligarchy to be overthrown. But the problem is much worse than that. The problem is with the people, and with how our politics fundamentally work. There isn't gonna be a sea-change. There's just gonna be maneuvering, against a chronic onslaught of irrational forces. Hillary seems to be the only candidate who really understands that.

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Fri Jan-22-16 05:09 PM

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78. "I think Bernie winning would signal something Obama's victory didn't."
In response to Reply # 38
Fri Jan-22-16 05:12 PM by Lardlad95

  

          

I never drank the kool-aid on the Obama change thing. His vote on the FISA bill was proof enough for me that there wasn't going to be radical change if he won. So Obama's victory, while remarkable, never struck me as something that was going to radically rework the American system. I figured he'd be a political moderate who basically patched us back up.


>You really think Bernie winning would lead to a sea-change in
>the American system? If Barack Obama couldn't bring that sea
>change, there isn't a chance that Bernie Sanders could do it.
>Anyone who thinks Bernie Sanders would be any less hated and
>reviled for his reasonable positions than Barack Obama was, is
>full of shit.

Bernie is an avowed socialist. He isn't going to win. However, I believe that if a socialist does win then that would signal something significant in the American electorate. I don't think you put a socialist into the nation's highest office without there being significant changes in other areas of politics. It would be undoing years of social engineering that have made Americans react to the word socialism with mistrust and resentment.

Like you said else where, Bernie isn't picking up moderates and disaffected Republicans.

So if he were to win, well then something really big shifted.


>You really think Trump fucking up would lead to any
>fundamental change in the Republican party? Let alone the
>country? Nobody thought Reagan could win. When he did, people
>thought he'd fuck up so badly that the American people would
>see their mistake. Reagan fucked up spectacularly, and he's
>been revered for it ever since. He's revered because assholes
>liked him, just like how assholes like Donald Trump.

I think a Trump nomination would be the death knell for that party as it stands. He's the manifestation of the GOP's internal contradiction: Socially Conservative Populism and Corporatism are incompatible. The party can't keep growing more reactionary to social changes, more beholden to corporate interests, and then deal with an ever increasing demographics problem.

Does Trump get the nomination? No, I don't think so.

If he does get it? Yeah I think that party is going to have a painful death/rebirth.


>It feels good to think there's an oligarchy to be overthrown.
>But the problem is much worse than that. The problem is with
>the people, and with how our politics fundamentally work.
>There isn't gonna be a sea-change. There's just gonna be
>maneuvering, against a chronic onslaught of irrational forces.
>Hillary seems to be the only candidate who really understands
>that.


Well yeah, I don't honestly think there will be a Sea-Change either...because I don't think Bernie or Trump are capable of becoming president. It would be unlikely if they even received their party's nominations, and if they did that unusual even would lead me to believe that there is something that is going to change in a fundamental way.

Also, yeah. I'm sure Hillary is a deft politician. I still have no desire to see her sworn into office.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
4981 posts
Mon Jan-18-16 02:14 PM

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48. "C'mon"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

> I mean I get that Bernie is the Anti-clinton but really has
>no chance against Trump.

You could have at least done a quick Google search.

Bernie beats Trump according to most head-to-head polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html


_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Jan-18-16 05:53 PM

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54. "Head to head polls are completely useless at this point. "
In response to Reply # 48


          


Bernie is only known, currently, to a small fraction of likely GE voters. With the broader public he has no negatives, while Hillary's and Trump's negatives are baked in. Bernie's negatives would rise sharply in a general election, much more than Trump's or Clinton's would.

It's not a myth that the general American public is skeptical of liberals and terrified by avowed socialists.

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
4981 posts
Tue Jan-19-16 04:32 PM

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60. "RE: Head to head polls are completely useless at this point. "
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

>Bernie is only known, currently, to a small fraction of likely
>GE voters.

"a small fraction"? Do you really believe that to be true? Bernie may not be the household name that Hilary is, but he's well-known at this point. You don't need to lie to make your point.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Jan-19-16 05:55 PM

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65. "That's not even an exaggeration. "
In response to Reply # 60


          


People have heard his name. They know he's running against Hillary, they know he's old, has a thick accent, and has one pair of underwear. The vast majority of likely general election voters knows nothing about the substance of his positions.

Even his actual supporters seem more interested in the fact that him winning would be an insult to the Clintons, than they are in his actual policy positions.

And this isn't just about Bernie. People say all the time that had to head GE polls are meaningless in January. This is not a controversial point. There hasn't even been a campaign yet.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Jan-18-16 12:00 AM

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37. "Yup. "
In response to Reply # 10


          


I'm still not too worried about him winning the primary at this point (though there is an outside chance at least if he wins Iowa AND NH).

But he really is hurting our only candidate at this point. He's been a very honorable candidate in many ways so far, but more and more, just by staying in the race, he's letting his ego override any hope of progress on the issues he really cares about.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44720 posts
Mon Jan-18-16 01:23 PM

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43. "Dude, I respect you, but c'mon @ this:"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          


>But he really is hurting our only candidate at this point.
>He's been a very honorable candidate in many ways so far, but
>more and more, just by staying in the race, he's letting his
>ego override any hope of progress on the issues he really
>cares about.

As of now, there hasn't been a single primary/caucus. Not a single American has cast a vote either way to see which member of the party of their choice should even run for President. And somehow Bernie even being in the race a little less than 11 months before the actual election is hurting the Democrats chances?

I believe in coronations. No reason that Hilary should cruise through the primaries unopposed. If she doesn't want fight and earn the votes of the members of her own party, how's she going to campaign amongst the "THEY TOOK OUR JERBS!?!!!!?!!!" crowd?

-----------------

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Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
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Tue Jan-19-16 04:50 PM

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61. "Bernie is the best thing for Hilary, IMO"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Far left voters see Hilary as an establishment centrist who's way too cozy with wall street and far too hawkish. Some progressive voters who were inspired by Obama in 2008 and 2012 may not even vote in the GE if they have to vote for Hilary. And as a data guy, you should know that voter turnout is everything when our political landscape is so partisan.

If Bernie makes a decent showing in the primary (which he will) but loses, it'll show Hilary that his positions have traction and appeal on the far left. That will convince her to move left in the GE, which will coax the reluctant progressives to vote for her. I think it's key to her success.

Or to make another argument, isn't it better for her to sharpen her claws in a tough primary? Or would you prefer a coronation?

_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jan-19-16 06:28 PM

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68. "RE: Bernie is the best thing for Hilary, IMO"
In response to Reply # 61


          

>Far left voters see Hilary as an establishment centrist who's
>way too cozy with wall street and far too hawkish. Some
>progressive voters who were inspired by Obama in 2008 and 2012
>may not even vote in the GE if they have to vote for Hilary.
>And as a data guy, you should know that voter turnout is
>everything when our political landscape is so partisan.

It's not everything, but yeah, it's a big deal. But while an unrealistic, feel-good candidate might help turnout on the left end of the Democratic party (unfortunately a minority of a minority, by the way), in this case it would also HURT turnout among moderate, technocratic, mainstream democrats, and among those disenfranchised liberal and establishment Republicans (and whatever true independents might remain), who are horrified by the idea of a Trump presidency. We need those voters too. Hillary can get some of them. Bernie can get none of them.

>If Bernie makes a decent showing in the primary (which he
>will) but loses, it'll show Hilary that his positions have
>traction and appeal on the far left. That will convince her to
>move left in the GE

If so, it would only hurt her in the GE. This is America, remember.

>, which will coax the reluctant
>progressives to vote for her. I think it's key to her
>success.

Again, while this may be true (though progressives have no logical reason to be reluctant to support Hillary, especially in current circumstances), she would lose more on the right end of the Democratic party and the left end of the Republican party than she would gain on the left end of the Democratic party.

Two terms of Democratic presidencies have caused people to forget that it's really fucking hard for Democrats to win the presidency. They do it by hiding their liberalism, not by touting it.

>Or to make another argument, isn't it better for her to
>sharpen her claws in a tough primary? Or would you prefer a
>coronation?

The "claw sharpening" argument has always been a bit of a simplistic cliche, but I kinda liked it until recently. At this point: yes, gimme a coronation. The real race is ahead, and infighting at this stage only makes that real race more difficult.

  

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Case_One
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11. "Bernie is killing Clinton with the facts of his record. "
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.

  

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Case_One
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13. "Bernie should get Clinton for her negative comments about Obama in 08"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.
.
.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Sun Jan-17-16 09:58 PM

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14. "Clinton never answers the question that's asked. When she tries she lies..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jan-17-16 10:02 PM by BlassFemur

  

          

Now O'Malley 's on her ass. lol

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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Case_One
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"Nope. She's too dirty. She's a Plutocrat"


          


.
.
.

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
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17. "....out here like..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

http://tinyurl.com/zucnq26

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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daryloneal
Member since Jan 08th 2005
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Sun Jan-17-16 09:59 PM

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15. "Bernie is killing. O'Malley is trying but Lester doesn't want to..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

let him in.

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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Case_One
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18. "The Media is in the tank for Clinton."
In response to Reply # 15


          


.
.
.

  

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daryloneal
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20. "I know and she's doing a bunch of grandstanding."
In response to Reply # 18
Sun Jan-17-16 10:02 PM by daryloneal

  

          

.

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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Case_One
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22. "She's about leaving a legacy for her name not helping this country. "
In response to Reply # 20


          


.
.
.

  

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daryloneal
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24. "exactly."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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Lardlad95
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19. "Dude hasn't been able to cut off Bernie or Hillary but he shut"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

O'Malley all the the way down when going to commercial.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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daryloneal
Member since Jan 08th 2005
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23. "Word. That was painful to watch."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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Case_One
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26. "O'Malley needs to just wild out and keep talking."
In response to Reply # 23


          


.
.
.

  

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daryloneal
Member since Jan 08th 2005
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Sun Jan-17-16 10:06 PM

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28. "He really has nothing to lose in doing so."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
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Sun Jan-17-16 10:12 PM

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30. "Hell, I'd love to see him as Bernie's VP...."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I mean I think he'd be better suited by picking a woman or a Latino running mate, but still...anyone but Hillary...who is slightly left of center.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Sun Jan-17-16 10:00 PM

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16. "Bernie is pissed tonight. He is killing Clinton."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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Vex_id
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25. "#DatBernieTho -- gloves off."
In response to Reply # 0


          


-->

  

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Case_One
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27. "Vex!!! Where have you been? Good to see you."
In response to Reply # 25


          

real talk
.
.
.

  

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Vex_id
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57. "thanks bruh. "
In response to Reply # 27


          

how are things?

-->

  

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Case_One
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58. "Things are going well, this year is starting off very well."
In response to Reply # 57


          

I wish you new levels of success this year.
.
.
.

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
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29. "The tax thing was a weak spot, but only because some people"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

won't actually consider the pay off.
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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exactopposite
Member since Aug 21st 2002
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Sun Jan-17-16 10:48 PM

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34. "Hillary want to take credit for everyhting Obama AND Bill did"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jan-17-16 10:57 PM by exactopposite

  

          

Bernie was killin em

O'Malley... well, we won't have to presidents in a row with names starting with O

  

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GrumpySmurf
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39. "http://s14.postimg.org/uaeebs38f/image.gif"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://s14.postimg.org/uaeebs38f/image.gif
Best reaction ever

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Mon Jan-18-16 07:48 AM

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40. "It was a wash...."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-18-16 07:51 AM by murph71

          



Which is good news for Clinton who needed to slow down's Bernie's momentum....Bernie been on that ass....

I think Clinton's biggest stumble last night came when she was asked about her strong ties to Wall Street...Her answer (Obama does it too!!!!) was a bit too cynical for my taste...

But I think she continues to make a strong point on Bernie's past support for some of the NRA backed bills...

Overall I think neither side lost ground...Bernie preached to his base and remained steadfast...I liked his comments about standing up to Wall Street. They have been getting a free ride for much too long....

Clinton turned up the heat on Bernie and stood her ground...And I do't mind her wrapping her arms around Obama's term (beyond her Wall Street plea copping) because she was indeed part of his administration...That matters...

But some of the comments about Clinton in this post reminds me of an interesting Tweet by Nate Silver...

Nate Dogg: "Clinton does something, anything, vaguely resembling the usual strategy of a candidate in a competitive campaign] MEDIA: SHE'S PANICKING!!!"

I think this^^^^ is real talk....I have my issues with Hill Dawg......But her going on the attack against Bernie ain't one of them....That's politics 101....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Mon Jan-18-16 07:59 AM

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41. "Nate Silver breaks down the debate...."
In response to Reply # 0


          



I think dude continues to be the sobering voice in the noise machine...He just deals with the facts, the numbers and history...Nothing more, nothing less...

Nate Silver live blogging on last night's debate:

--"I’m not quite sure what to think about that debate. I keep looking for signs that Sanders is interested in expanding his coalition between his predominantly white, liberal base, and I’m not really seeing them. At the same time, Sanders got a lot of screen time tonight — and tonight’s debate is likely to get much better ratings than the previous two editions held on Saturdays — and greater exposure is usually a good thing for the trailing candidate.

--Another thing I’m unsure about: Sanders was feistier and angrier than we’ve seen him in the past. How will that play to the home audience? Do voters like Angry Bernie or the more lovable, absent-minded-professor, Larry David version of him? That too could be a question that divides Sanders’s base voters from the broader audience he’ll need to be competitive in states like South Carolina.

--I, for one, am not terribly sympathetic to O’Malley’s pleas for more speaking time. It’s not just his unlikelihood of winning the nomination. It’s also that he isn’t bringing much to the table from a policy standpoint, trying to position himself to Clinton’s left when (i) Sanders is doing a much better job of that and (ii) O’Malley doesn’t really have the track record to tout his lefty credentials.

--More seriously — I agree that the candidates have been speaking mostly to their respective bases on the substance. So I’m wondering whether Sanders’s feistier demeanor tonight will play positively or negatively with the home audience.

--A somewhat more technical answer on O’Malley: The reason that he’s so low in our Iowa and New Hampshire forecasts — under 1 percent to win either state — is not just because he’s polling in the single digits. Some candidates have come back from the single digits to win primaries before, in fact. His problem, instead, is that there are not one but two really popular candidates ahead of him. For the most part, any losses that Clinton has from here on out will be Sanders’s gains, and vice versa. That makes it not just difficult but almost impossible for O’Malley to jump ahead of them both.


--According to OpenSecrets.org, Clinton has received $5.7 million from contributors in the financial services industry so far this cycle, compared with just $270,000 for Sanders. However, although no individual Republican candidate has out-raised Clinton in the industry — Jeb Bush, at $4.5 million, is closest — in the aggregate, Republican presidential candidates have raised about twice as much as Democrats, with $12.7 million in contributions, compared with $6.3 million for Clinton and other Democrats combined.

link: http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/nbc-democratic-debate-presidential-election-2016/

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Jan-18-16 11:30 AM

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42. "though it's the right thing to do, LMMFAO @ Hill Dogg piggybacking off O..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like dropping his name for the cheap pop.

L O L

my, how things have changed.

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
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44. "Did you hear that blackies? Bernie insulted Chief Obama!!!"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Fuck her.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jan-18-16 01:42 PM

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46. "did this debate seem fixed or kinda phishy to anyone?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

hillary was set up with 2 questions
that she could answer 1st and get out in front of bernie
on campaign finance reform
and institutionalized racism within the criminal justice system.

2 prominent bernie sanders calling cards
that hillary never really showed much passion for.

but all of a sudden clinton had 2 stock answers ready to go
and acted like she has been deeply involved/interested in both issues.
she basically just recited some bernie sanders shit
and put her name on it.
so when bernie spoke on them afterwards
it seemed like he was piggybacking
and not the one who has originally been pushing those issues
into the national debate stage.

it was kinda funny how hillary talked about
police killing young black men
"like walter scott".
nigga was 50.
i dont think she is too concerned with the details tho lol.

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Jan-18-16 04:25 PM

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49. "my only thing is it seems the DNC doesnt want anyone to watch"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

so they put them on these odd ass days.

They want to just coronate Hillary and focus on the general

I kinda wish they'd get rid of Debbie Wasserman Schultz and put a fresh face in there. She's about as typical democrat as typical democrats get

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Mon Jan-18-16 04:36 PM

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51. "RE: my only thing is it seems the DNC doesnt want anyone to watch"
In response to Reply # 49


          



I agree with u when they put the debates on Saturday....That was a odd day...

But there's nothing odd about Sunday, a day when people chill at the crib and VEG out on TV....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Jan-18-16 04:46 PM

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52. "Sunday is for football. And it's outside of any sort of news cycle"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

GOP wants and gets maximum exposure by putting their debates on during the weekdays. Shoot, even people driving home from work listening to news radio get constant updates about it. No one wants to think about deep political debate on a Sunday. The most advanced their thought processes get is trying to figure who's really been killed on "Walking Dead."

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Mon Jan-18-16 04:54 PM

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53. "RE: Sunday is for football. And it's outside of any sort of news cycle"
In response to Reply # 52
Mon Jan-18-16 04:55 PM by murph71

          

>GOP wants and gets maximum exposure by putting their debates
>on during the weekdays. Shoot, even people driving home from
>work listening to news radio get constant updates about it. No
>one wants to think about deep political debate on a Sunday.
>The most advanced their thought processes get is trying to
>figure who's really been killed on "Walking Dead."


Again..when they put the debate on Sat. that was indeed a bury job....

But Sunday more than works because beyond football and the like people sit around and watch TV...It's a relaxing, VEG out day....

And the numbers prove it....(Swipey Swipe)


CNN
NBC scores highest-rated Democratic debate since October

Sunday night's NBC face-off between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders was watched by 10.2 million people, making it the most-watched Democratic primary debate since October, according to Nielsen ratings.
The debate's 7.2 rating was an improvement over the other two Democratic debates on broadcast networks this election season. ABC's Democratic debate on a Saturday night in November averaged a 6.1 household rating. The CBS debate on the Saturday before Christmas in December had a 6.0.

Sunday night's debate also attracted more younger viewers than the earlier two Democratic debates with 31% (3.17 million) being between 25 and 54 years old. That age group made up 25% of the audience in the previous two debates.

NBC said that in addition to its TV audience, another 1.3 million streamed the debate online and more than 500,000 watched a rerun of the debate at 11 p.m. Sunday on MSNBC.
NBC had an advantage over ABC and CBS, since Sunday nights have heavier TV viewership. Still, NBC's debate -- the fourth of the Democratic cycle -- didn't come close to matching the first one, televised by CNN in October.
That debate, on a Tuesday night, had an 11.2 rating and 15.3 million viewers. It remains the highest-rated Democratic primary match-up in TV history.

Some critics accused the Democratic National Committee of trying to limit debates and limit viewership by holding them at inopportune times. NBC's debate was held in the middle of a three day holiday weekend.

Clinton and Sanders were joined on stage by Martin O'Malley. Despite several attempts to win more time from the moderators, O'Malley spoke for half as many minutes as his higher-polling rivals.

NBC moderator Lester Holt received generally positive reviews for his performance. He was joined by questioner Andrea Mitchell as well as several YouTube users who submitted questions ahead of time via video.

Some Twitter critics dismissed the YouTube integration as ineffective.
It did help NBC to reach an online audience, however. YouTube and its parent, Google (GOOGL, Tech30), promoted a live-stream of the debate on Sunday night.
NBC also live-streamed the debate on its own web site.

Putting the Democratic ratings into perspective, NBC's overnight
rating was slightly lower than the household rating for Fox Business Network's Republican primary debate last week. And that was the lowest-rated GOP debate of the cycle, with about 11 million viewers.
This election season, the debates on cable news have generally out-rated debates on broadcast networks, despite the historic advantages of broadcast.

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Mynoriti
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55. "I'm a bit surprised by that"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

I didn't even know there was a debate last night until after it was over.

  

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Vex_id
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56. "DNC *been* tipping the scales for Clinton. It's a travesty. "
In response to Reply # 46


          

Make no mistake: Clinton *is* the Establishment.

Sure - she'd be a better president than Trump/Cruz (what a low bar that is) - but Bernie is absolutely right: Can you really expect the necessary reform to take place from somebody who is paid millions by the elite institutions that are causing the bulk of the problems?

-->

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Jan-18-16 01:47 PM

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47. "Didn't even realize until recently Tommy Carcetti was based on O'malley"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

loosely, anyway.
and that O'malley hated the Wire (even though he never saw it).

Enough reason for me to not consider him

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
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50. "Oh wow. Once you say it, it seems obvious."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

Just IMO though.

  

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Castro
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108. "That is what folks here call Martin (Carcetti)"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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59. "Chait makes the case against Bernie pretty well."
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's not just that he's unelectable. Even if by some miracle he got elected, he'd be a terrible President. He's generally right on the issues, but that's not all a President needs to be.

"Those areas in which a Democratic Executive branch has no power are those in which Sanders demands aggressive action, and the areas in which the Executive branch still has power now are precisely those in which Sanders has the least to say."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/case-against-bernie-sanders.html

The Case Against Bernie Sanders
By Jonathan Chait

Until very recently, nobody had any cause to regret Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign. Sanders is earnest and widely liked. He has tugged the terms of the political debate leftward in a way both moderates and left-wingers could appreciate. (Moderate liberals might not agree with Sanders’s ideas, but they can appreciate that his presence changes for the better a political landscape in which support for things like Mitt Romney’s old positions on health care and the environment were defined as hard-core liberalism.) Sanders’s rapid rise, in both early states and national polling, has made him a plausible threat to defeat Hillary Clinton. Suddenly, liberals who have used the nominating process to unilaterally vet Clinton, processing every development through its likely impact on her as the inevitable candidate, need to think anew. Do we support Sanders not just in his role as lovable Uncle Bernie, complaining about inequality, but as the actual Democratic nominee for president? My answer to that question is no.

Sanders’s core argument is that the problems of the American economy require far more drastic remedies than anything the Obama administration has done, or that Clinton proposes to build on. Clinton has put little pressure on Sanders’s fatalistic assessment, but the evidence for it is far weaker than he assumes. Sanders has grudgingly credited what he calls “the modest gains of the Affordable Care Act,” which seems like an exceedingly stingy assessment of a law that has already reduced the number of uninsured Americans by 20 million. The Dodd-Frank reforms of the financial industry may not have broken up the big banks, but they have, at the very least, deeply reduced systemic risk. The penalties for being too big to fail exceed the benefits, and, as a result, banks are actually breaking themselves up to avoid being large enough to be regulated as systemic risks.

It is true that the Great Recession inflicted catastrophic economic damage, and that fiscal policy did too little to alleviate it. The impression of economic failure hardened into place as the sluggish recovery dragged on for several years. Recently, conditions have improved. Unemployment has dropped, the number of people quitting their job has risen, and — as one would predict would happen when employers start to run short of available workers — average wages have started to climb. Whether the apparent rise in the median wage is the beginning of a sustained increase, or merely a short-lived blip, remains to be seen. At the very least, the conclusion that Obama’s policies have failed to raise living standards for average people is premature. And the progress under Obama refutes Sanders’s corollary point, that meaningful change is impossible without a revolutionary transformation that eliminates corporate power.

Nor should his proposed remedies be considered self-evidently benign. Evidence has shown that, at low levels, raising the minimum wage does little or nothing to kill jobs. At some point, though, the government could set a minimum wage too high for employers to be willing to pay it for certain jobs. Even liberal labor economists like Alan Krueger, who have supported more modest increases, have blanched at Sanders’s proposal for a $15 minimum wage.

Sanders’s worldview is not a fantasy. It is a serious critique based on ideas he has developed over many years, and it bears at least some relation to the instincts shared by all liberals. The moral urgency with which Sanders presents his ideas has helped shelter him from necessary internal criticism. Nobody on the left wants to defend Wall Street or downplay the pressure on middle- and working-class Americans. But Sanders's ideas should not be waved through as a more honest or uncorrupted version of the liberal catechism. The despairing vision he paints of contemporary America is oversimplified.

Even those who do share Sanders’s critique of American politics and endorse his platform, though, should have serious doubts about his nomination. Sanders does bring some assets as a potential nominee — his rumpled style connotes authenticity, and his populist forays against Wall Street have appeal beyond the Democratic base. But his self-identification as a socialist poses an enormous obstacle, as Americans respond to “socialism” with overwhelming negativity. Likewise, his support for higher taxes on the middle class — while substantively sensible — also saddles him with a highly unpopular stance. He also has difficulty addressing issues outside his economic populism wheelhouse. In his opening statement at the debate the day after the Paris attacks, Sanders briefly and vaguely gestured toward the attacks before quickly turning back to his economic themes.

Against these liabilities, Sanders offers the left-wing version of a hoary political fantasy: that a more pure candidate can rally the People into a righteous uprising that would unsettle the conventional laws of politics. Versions of this have circulated in both parties for years, having notably inspired the disastrous Goldwater and McGovern campaigns. The Republican Party may well fall for it again this year. Sanders’s version involves the mobilization of a mass grassroots volunteer army that can depose the special interests. “The major political, strategic difference I have with Obama is it’s too late to do anything inside the Beltway,” he told Andrew Prokop. “You gotta take your case to the American people, mobilize them, and organize them at the grassroots level in a way that we have never done before.” But Obama did organize passionate volunteers on a massive scale — far broader than anything Sanders has done — and tried to keep his volunteers engaged throughout his presidency. Why would Sanders’s grassroots campaign succeed where Obama’s far larger one failed?

Sanders has promised to replace Obamacare with a single-payer plan, without having any remotely plausible prospects for doing so. Many advocates of single-payer imagine that only the power of insurance companies stands in their way, but the more imposing obstacles would be reassuring suspicious voters that the change in their insurance (from private to public) would not harm them and — more difficult still — raising the taxes to pay for it. As Sarah Kliff details, Vermont had to abandon hopes of creating its own single-payer plan. If Vermont, one of the most liberal states in America, can’t summon the political willpower for single-payer, it is impossible to imagine the country as a whole doing it. Not surprisingly, Sanders's health-care plan uses the kind of magical-realism approach to fiscal policy usually found in Republican budgets, conjuring trillions of dollars in savings without defining their source.

The Sanders campaign represents a revolution of rising expectations. In 2008, the last time Democrats held a contested primary, the prospect of simply taking back the presidency from Republican control was nearly enough to motivate the party’s vote. The potential to enact dramatic change was merely a bonus. After nearly two terms of power, with the prospect of Republican rule now merely hypothetical, Democrats want more.

The paradox is that the president’s ability to deliver more change is far more limited. The current occupant of the Oval Office and his successor will have a House of Representatives firmly under right-wing rule, making the prospects of important progressive legislation impossible. This hardly renders the presidency impotent, obviously. The end of Obama’s term has shown that a creative president can still drive some change.

But here is a second irony: Those areas in which a Democratic Executive branch has no power are those in which Sanders demands aggressive action, and the areas in which the Executive branch still has power now are precisely those in which Sanders has the least to say. The president retains full command of foreign affairs; can use executive authority to drive social policy change in areas like criminal justice and gender; and can, at least in theory, staff the judiciary. What the next president won’t accomplish is to increase taxes, expand social programs, or do anything to reduce inequality, given the House Republicans’ fanatically pro-inequality positions across the board. The next Democratic presidential term will be mostly defensive, a bulwark against the enactment of the radical Ryan plan. What little progress liberals can expect will be concentrated in the non-Sanders realm.

So even if you fervently endorse Sanders's policy vision (which, again for the sake of full candor, I do not), he has chosen an unusually poor time to make it the centerpiece of a presidential campaign. It can be rational for a party to move away from the center in order to set itself up for dramatic new policy changes; the risk the Republican Party accepted in 1980 when Ronald Reagan endorsed the radical new doctrine of supply-side economics allowed it to reshape the face of government. But it seems bizarre for Democrats to risk losing the presidency by embracing a politically radical doctrine that stands zero chance of enactment even if they win.

  

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SoWhat
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62. "i dig Bernie a lot and i agree w/this piece."
In response to Reply # 59
Tue Jan-19-16 04:57 PM by SoWhat

  

          

i don't think Bernie will be able to accomplish most of what he proposes. i don't think he'll inspire the sort of political revolution required to accomplish his goals.

and i want him to stay in the Senate. or end up in a Cabinet position. but i don't want him to be the next president. i'd vote for him in the general if he's the Democratic nominee and would welcome him as prez if he wins but he's not my first choice in this election.

fuck you.

  

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AZ
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63. "This is garbage"
In response to Reply # 59


          

These are talking points taken straight from the DCC. The idea that the economic recovery is benefiting average Americans in any way other than in the most superficial aspects is just stupid. I like how he just glosses over the wages issue.

Mainstream democrats will cling to their ideas that the oligarchic-capitalist status quo will benefit the average American, but clearly a lot of people aren't buying this BS anymore.

By the way, this is the same moron obsessing about the dangers of "PC culture" and wringing his hands about the idea of paying college athletes.

  

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Vex_id
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64. "right: "
In response to Reply # 63


          


>By the way, this is the same moron obsessing about the dangers
>of "PC culture" and wringing his hands about the idea of
>paying college athletes.

As soon as I saw the author I cringed. He was on "All In With Chris Hayes" recently defending this piece and got bodied, unsurprisingly.


-->

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jan-19-16 07:48 PM

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70. "2 Bern hit pieces days after the Dem debate...?"
In response to Reply # 63
Tue Jan-19-16 07:50 PM by bentagain

  

          

so I guess the candidate that rakes in $Ms/yr in speaking fees from wall street

big pharma donations

etc...

she's got the average american's best interests in mind

FOH.

there's spin

and then there's facts

not surprised at the counter articles after Bern pulled a few cards on Sun

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jan-19-16 06:10 PM

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66. "Funny how Bernie's unrealistic radicalism doesn't extend to reparations."
In response to Reply # 0


          

This maybe deserves its own thread, but this thread seems to be Bernie-central these days.

For the record: Bernie's position isn't surprising, and on this issue it's probably identical to Hillary's. But the funny thing is, his reasoning is that reparations are unrealistic and divisive, as if the entirety of his platform wasn't unrealistic and divisive.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/bernie-sanders-reparations/424602/

Why Precisely Is Bernie Sanders Against Reparations?

The Vermont senator’s political imagination is active against plutocracy, but why is it so limited against white supremacy?

TA-NEHISI COATES 3:42 PM ET POLITICS

Last week Bernie Sanders was asked whether he was in favor of “reparations for slavery.” It is worth considering Sanders’s response in full:


No, I don’t think so. First of all, its likelihood of getting through Congress is nil. Second of all, I think it would be very divisive. The real issue is when we look at the poverty rate among the African American community, when we look at the high unemployment rate within the African American community, we have a lot of work to do.

So I think what we should be talking about is making massive investments in rebuilding our cities, in creating millions of decent paying jobs, in making public colleges and universities tuition-free, basically targeting our federal resources to the areas where it is needed the most and where it is needed the most is in impoverished communities, often African American and Latino.


For those of us interested in how the left prioritizes its various radicalisms, Sanders’s answer is illuminating. The spectacle of a socialist candidate opposing reparations as “divisive” (there are few political labels more divisive in the minds of Americans than socialist) is only rivaled by the implausibility of Sanders posing as a pragmatist. Sanders says the chance of getting reparations through Congress is “nil,” a correct observation which could just as well apply to much of the Vermont senator’s own platform. The chances of a President Sanders coaxing a Republican Congress to pass a $1 trillion jobs and infrastructure bill are also nil. Considering Sanders’s proposal for single-payer health-care, Paul Krugman asks, “Is there any realistic prospect that a drastic overhaul could be enacted any time soon—say, in the next eight years? No.”

Sanders is a lot of things, many of them good. But he is not the candidate of moderation and unification, so much as the candidate of partisanship and radicalism. There is neither insult nor accolade in this. John Brown was radical and divisive. So was Eric Robert Rudolph. Our current sprawling megapolis of prisons was a bipartisan achievement. Obamacare was not. Sometimes the moral course lies within the politically possible, and sometimes the moral course lies outside of the politically possible. One of the great functions of radical candidates is to war against equivocators and opportunists who conflate these two things. Radicals expand the political imagination and, hopefully, prevent incrementalism from becoming a virtue.

Unfortunately, Sanders’s radicalism has failed in the ancient fight against white supremacy. What he proposes in lieu of reparations—job creation, investment in cities, and free higher education—is well within the Overton window, and his platform on race echoes Democratic orthodoxy. The calls for community policing, body-cameras, and a voting-rights bill with pre-clearance restored— all are things that Hillary Clinton agrees with. And those positions with which she might not agree address black people not so much as a class specifically injured by white supremacy, but rather, as a group which magically suffers from disproportionate poverty.

This is the “class first” approach, originating in the myth that racism and socialism are necessarily incompatible. But raising the minimum wage doesn’t really address the fact that black men without criminal records have about the same shot at low-wage work as white men with them; nor can making college free address the wage gap between black and white graduates. Housing discrimination, historical and present, may well be the fulcrum of white supremacy. Affirmative action is one of the most disputed issues of the day. Neither are addressed in the “racial justice” section of Sanders platform.

Sanders’s anti-racist moderation points to a candidate who is not merely against reparations, but one who doesn’t actually understand the argument. To briefly restate it, from 1619 until at least the late 1960s, American institutions, businesses, associations, and governments—federal, state and local—repeatedly plundered black communities. Their methods included everything from land-theft, to red-lining, to disenfranchisement, to convict-lease labor, to lynching, to enslavement, to the vending of children. So large was this plunder that America, as we know it today, is simply unimaginable without it. Its great universities were founded on it. Its early economy was built by it. Its suburbs were financed by it. Its deadliest war was the result of it.

One can’t evade these facts by changing the subject. Some months ago, black radicals in the Black Lives Matters movement protested Sanders. They were, in the main, jeered by the white left for their efforts. But judged by his platform, Sanders should be directly confronted and asked why his political imagination is so active against plutocracy, but so limited against white supremacy. Jim Crow and its legacy were not merely problems of disproportionate poverty. Why should black voters support a candidate who does not recognize this?

If not even an avowed socialist can be bothered to grapple with reparations, if the question really is that far beyond the pale, if Bernie Sanders truly believes that victims of the Tulsa pogrom deserved nothing, that the victims of contract lending deserve nothing, that the victims of debt peonage deserve nothing, that that political plunder of black communities entitle them to nothing, if this is the candidate of the radical left—then expect white supremacy in America to endure well beyond our lifetimes and lifetimes of our children. Reparations is not one possible tool against white supremacy. It is the indispensable tool against white supremacy. One cannot propose to plunder a people, incur a moral and monetary debt, propose to never pay it back, and then claim to be seriously engaging in the fight against white supremacy.

My hope was to talk to Sanders directly, before writing this article. I reached out repeatedly to his campaign over the past three days. The Sanders campaign did not respond.

  

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AZ
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67. "Like Obama, white supremacy is not a big issue for Bernie"
In response to Reply # 66


          

Shrug. Good luck finding a candidate who has a different position on the issue.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jan-19-16 07:41 PM

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69. "RE: My hope was to talk to Sanders directly"
In response to Reply # 67
Tue Jan-19-16 07:42 PM by bentagain

  

          

so you write an entire article based on assumptions that he never said

?

as per the previous reply, I missed the reparation campaign platform from any candidate

he made a statement when asked a specific question

and this article spins it all the way to an insulting level...1619-1965

c'mon, Ta-Nehisi doing alot IMO.

could have just as easily written the same aricle IRT HRC's privilege comments

but he didn't...hmmm...???

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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stravinskian
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Tue Jan-19-16 07:58 PM

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71. "Did you even glance at the article? "
In response to Reply # 69
Tue Jan-19-16 07:58 PM by stravinskian

          

OF COURSE Hillary doesn't support reparations. No mainstream politician does at that level. But Hillary is a realist, and she's never claimed otherwise.

Bernie is not a realist. He's made his name entirely by supporting positions that have no chance in hell of ever becoming reality. Why can't be put reparations right next to Medicare For All in his big list of right things to do that will unfortunately never happen? If he's willing to play make believe with every other issue, why not this one?

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jan-19-16 08:10 PM

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75. "Thats a pretty foolish angle IMO"
In response to Reply # 71


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Jan-26-16 01:39 PM

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98. "RE: Thats a pretty foolish angle IMO"
In response to Reply # 75


          



Actually it's not....

I see Coates' point...The issue is Bernie has always embraced being a radical socialist...He has said some pretty out-there things in his political career...So if u have been taking the road less traveled and raising hell against the Democrats for not taking on YOUR radical views what else do u expect? When someone else (Coates) who has given u high 5's on your socialist message comes to u to address an issue that goes hand-in-hand with your philosophy u freeze up on some OH, THAT'S TOO OUT THERE EVEN FOR ME, I mean that's pretty interesting...

Here is that Coates money quote:

"When a candidate points to high unemployment among black youth, as well as high incarceration rates, and then dubs himself a radical, it seems prudent to ask what radical anti-racist policies that candidate actually embraces. Hillary Clinton has no interest in being labeled radical, left-wing, or even liberal. Thus announcing that Clinton doesn’t support reparations is akin to announcing that Ted Cruz doesn’t support a woman’s right to choose. The position is certainly wrong. But it is hardly a surprise, and doesn't run counter to the candidate’s chosen name.

What candidates name themselves is generally believed to be important. Many Sanders supporters, for instance, correctly point out that Clinton handprints are all over America’s sprawling carceral state. I agree with them and have said so at length. Voters, and black voters particularly, should never forget that Bill Clinton passed arguably the most immoral “anti-crime” bill in American history, and that Hillary Clinton aided its passage through her invocation of the super-predator myth. A defense of Clinton rooted in the claim that “Jeb Bush held the same position” would not be exculpatory. (“Law and order conservative embraces law and order” would surprise no one.) That is because the anger over the Clintons’ actions isn’t simply based on their having been wrong, but on their craven embrace of law and order Republicanism in the Democratic Party’s name.".......

It's not at all hard to see where Coates is going with this ^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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101. "It is when that topic hasn't even been breached yet"
In response to Reply # 98
Tue Jan-26-16 01:56 PM by bentagain

  

          

HRC is cherry-picking the points she wants to be associated with

I haven't heard anybody ask her about her role in mass incarceration

with the primary on Monday

again, my issue with this TNC piece is the timing

will he print a similar attack on HRC?

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Vex_id
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72. "Coates was like "i waited 3 days to hear from the campaign""
In response to Reply # 69


          

damn - 3 days (in the midst of the busiest time of the primary) is all the notice you give? I mean - I know Coates is a big deal, but c'mon bruh.

Also - this is similar whining to the sophomoric BLM ambush on Sanders whereby people were grasping at straws to mischaracterize him - only to implicitly support the candidate (Clinton) who actually said "#AllLivesMatter" prior to being coached on how to properly pander for the black vote.



-->

  

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legsdiamond
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74. "I wonder who Coates is supporting? "
In response to Reply # 66


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue Jan-19-16 08:08 PM

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73. "Huge lead for Bern-dogg in NH."
In response to Reply # 0


          

60 to 33 in latest poll. Almost even in Iowa too.
I still think Clinton runs away with the nom though. She has those working class dem votes locked up tight

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/01/19/poll-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-new-hampshire/79024002/

_______________________________________

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Tue Jan-19-16 08:32 PM

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76. "The what?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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77. "Hillary's getting that old familiar feeling, Bern leading big in Iowa"
In response to Reply # 0


          

51% to 43%

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/politics/iowa-poll-full-results-cnn-orc/index.html

Page 6

_______________________________________

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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79. "They're doing a town hall tonight and didn't tell anybody"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I swear the Repub debates get promoted like the Super Bowl.
I guess you have to subscribe to the DNC newsletter to find out about their events

_______________________________________

  

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bentagain
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80. "RE: They're doing a town hall tonight and it was terrible"
In response to Reply # 79
Tue Jan-26-16 10:55 AM by bentagain

  

          

basically a softball for HRC, this is her lane

but I thought it was painfully obvious

when Cuomo would hit Bern with follow ups, or as he called them, push backs

but just stood there like an idiot while HRC doesn't actually answer most of the questions

out the gate

the first question was about HRC lack of youth voters and why younger voters aren't as enthused about her candidacy

somehow, not only did she not answer the question, but she ended up talking about republican attacks on her campaign

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/01/26/iowa-democratic-town-hall-clinton-dishonesty-18.cnn

f'n pointless.

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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murph71
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Tue Jan-26-16 11:05 AM

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81. "RE: They're doing a town hall tonight and didn't tell anybody"
In response to Reply # 79


          

>I swear the Repub debates get promoted like the Super Bowl.
>I guess you have to subscribe to the DNC newsletter to find
>out about their events

The Repug debates have a wild, say-anything, lose cannon on their roster (Trump) who takes all the air out of the room and dominates media soundbites....

It"s not that the RNC is promoting their debates more than the Dems...TRUMP IS PROMOTING THEM.....

That's the difference...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jan-26-16 02:11 PM

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104. "CNN advertized the shit out of it. "
In response to Reply # 79


          


I don't know where else one would have expected to hear about it.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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110. "Other news channels"
In response to Reply # 104


          

The lead up to the Fox debates were talked about heavily on MSNBC, CNN, CBS, etc.

_______________________________________

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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111. "Well this was definitely mentioned on MSNBC."
In response to Reply # 110


          


As a matter of fact, that's what reminded me to change the channel for it. (Maybe that's why they wouldn't talk about it very much.)

I wouldn't know if Fox talked about it.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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82. "I woke up in the middle of the night wonder, Did I really want another"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

8 years of the Clintons in the White House?

Then I thought, did we really want to elect a 74 year old to the white house? Is this really the best we can do?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Jan-26-16 11:33 AM

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83. "RE: I woke up in the middle of the night wonder, Did I really want anoth..."
In response to Reply # 82


          

>8 years of the Clintons in the White House?
>
>Then I thought, did we really want to elect a 74 year old to
>the white house? Is this really the best we can do?


Certainly better than what's on the Republican side....VASTLY better....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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85. "Agreed but I am not excited about it. I'd love a woman president but..."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

Hillary Clinton feels like not the right way to get it (since it probably wouldn't have all happened if it weren't for her husband).

Elizabeth Warren and I'd be more psyched.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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SoWhat
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86. "Obamania made us all think that we're supposed to be"
In response to Reply # 85
Tue Jan-26-16 11:54 AM by SoWhat

  

          

'excited' about a POTUS candidate.

as if.

the shit ain't the American Idol finale. 'excitement' is not required.

i read in a thoughtpiece/blog-entry/article-whatever this morning that Bernie is the heir of candidate Obama ('excitement') but Hillary is the heir of PRESIDENT Obama ('practicality'/'ability to lead'). i agreed.

fuck you.

  

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murph71
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Tue Jan-26-16 11:54 AM

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88. "RE: Agreed but I am not excited about it. I'd love a woman president but..."
In response to Reply # 85


          



I get where your head is at....But this ain't prom....

This is real life...

SoWhat is right...Obama is the gift/curse....Today it's not enough for us to be logical in terms of who we pick for our next President (the person who has the power to choose the next Supreme Justice or improve/GUT healthcare; or make dumb ass moves like singling out Muslims...)....Now we gotta be moved and turned on as if we are going to a Taylor Swift concert....lol

Nah...I'm going to make my choice in a very sober minded way...And it will have little to do with whether or not I will follow a candidate because he or she has "moved" me....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jan-26-16 12:42 PM

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89. "man, a lot of people just don't like Hillary"
In response to Reply # 88


          

I will vote for her if she gets the nomination but I have a feeling she may be in for a struggle.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
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Tue Jan-26-16 12:51 PM

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90. "I'm trying to remain open minded and listen to her"
In response to Reply # 89


          

but she just seems so unnatural and annoying every time she talks. Always some canned response that doesn't really answer the question asked. I know they all have prepared answers of some kind, but to me when Bernie speaks he doesn't sound like hes reading from a teleprompter and that he really cares about what he's talking about. I know it shouldn't really be about who's personality you prefer but I can't help it.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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bentagain
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Tue Jan-26-16 01:37 PM

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95. "RE: that doesn't really answer the question asked"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

thank god somebody else typed it

I was starting to think nobody else could see it

I watched the CNN town hall special last night

and they were all patting her on the back for her answer to the lack of youth enthusiasm question

= she never answered the question

most of the time, when she repsonds, I'm just waiting for the answer

and most of the time, she never gets there.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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SoWhat
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97. "i'm voting for her but i don't listen to her at all."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

i'm voting for her not b/c of her but b/c of the strategy of it all. i'm voting for her b/c of the ppl w/whom she will work and the pool from which she will draw when she makes appointments and nominations. i'm voting for her b/c of the Congressional bills she will sign and/or veto (should Congress get its head out of its ass and actually send legislation to the WH).

she could spend the next debate doing 30 minutes of 'Yo Mama' jokes about my mama and i'd still vote for her. i don't care what she's talking about. so i don't watch the debates or press conferences or any of that shit.

i'm ready to vote right now today. all of this rah-rah for the next 11 months is a fucking waste of mine and everyone else's time. it's theater. it's gossip. it's entertainment for geeks who think they're above gossipy trashy entertainment. it's a ruse. it's a waste.

fuck you.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Jan-26-16 01:48 PM

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100. "RE: i'm voting for her but i don't listen to her at all."
In response to Reply # 97


          

>i'm voting for her not b/c of her but b/c of the strategy of
>it all. i'm voting for her b/c of the ppl w/whom she will
>work and the pool from which she will draw when she makes
>appointments and nominations. i'm voting for her b/c of the
>Congressional bills she will sign and/or veto (should Congress
>get its head out of its ass and actually send legislation to
>the WH).



^^^^^^^^^


GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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SoWhat
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93. "fools voted for W over Gore in part b/c they preferred to have a beer"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

w/W.

as the fuck if that shit should have ANY bearing on who one chooses in a POTUS election.

but whatever. LOL

fuck you.

  

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mrhood75
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Tue Jan-26-16 02:08 PM

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102. "But that's how many people are going to continue to vote. Even now"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

Yeah, it's fucking stupid, but it's a dumb reality that "excitement" over a candidate or actually liking them as a person is a big part of the process.

I keep coming back to the 2004 election, where Kerry essentially ran a "Vote for me because I'm not Dubya" campaign. And it failed.

Running on "Eat your peas because they're good you and cotton candy will rot your teeth" alone won't cut it for the vast majority of people out there.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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SoWhat
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105. "*shrugs*"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

ppl is dumb and i'm not at all interested in playing armchair-politico or armchair-political-consultant. i find the shit tedious though i have a poli sci degree.

i'm voting for Hillary. period.

fuck you.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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103. "But that's how many people are going to continue to vote. Even now"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

Yeah, it's fucking stupid, but it's a dumb reality that "excitement" over a candidate or actually liking them as a person is a big part of the process.

I keep coming back to the 2004 election, where Kerry essentially ran a "Vote for me because I'm not Dubya" campaign. And it failed.

Running on "Eat your peas because they're good you and cotton candy will rot your teeth" alone won't cut it for the vast majority of people out there.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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ThaTruth
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114. "It was more than just an "emotional" connection with Obama, he..."
In response to Reply # 88
Tue Jan-26-16 04:48 PM by ThaTruth

          

a great candidate and no matter how Hillary and others tried there was no dirt on him.

Hillary is dirty and dishonest as fuck so it should be obvious to understand why a lot of folks aren't excited about her being in the White House.

She tries to take credit for everything positive that happened during Bill and Obama's administrations and tries to gloss over the fact that she personally didn't really do shit positive as a senator or SOS.

She's solely riding on her name and a pre-anointing by her party that it was "her turn".

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Jan-26-16 04:53 PM

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115. "RE: It was more than just an "emotional" conne..."
In response to Reply # 114
Tue Jan-26-16 05:02 PM by murph71

          

>a great candidate and no matter how Hillary and others tried
>there was no dirt on him.
>
>Hillary is dirty and dishonest as fuck so it should be obvious
>to understand why a lot of folks aren't excited about her
>being in the White House.
>
>She tries to take credit for everything positive that happened
>during Bill and Obama's administrations and tries to gloss
>over the fact that she personally didn't really do shit
>positive as a senator or SOS.
>
>She's solely riding on her name and a pre-anointing by her
>party that it was "her turn".


And don't forget...she's a lying ass bitch and a woman.....!!!!!!!!!!!

But let's be clear here...Clinton is a politician...Plain and simple...They are ALL politicians...So let's not try to separate what she is doing with how this game is usually played.....I'm rolling with whoever gets the Democratic nod whether it's Clinton or Bernie...

I don't get much into naive ramblings....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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ThaTruth
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117. "RE: It was more than just an "emotional" conne..."
In response to Reply # 115


          


>And don't forget...she's a lying ass bitch >

she is.

and a
>woman.....!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>But let's be clear here...Clinton is a politician...Plain and
>simple...They are ALL politicians...So let's not try to
>separate what she is doing with how this game is usually
>played.....

Let's not act like Hillary is just doing what everybody else does. No other presidential candidate has been married to a former president and been able to claim their successes. And No recent democratic has been anywhere near as dirty as she is.

>I'm rolling with whoever gets the Democratic nod
>whether it's Clinton or Bernie...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jan-26-16 05:52 PM

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119. "RE: It was more than just an "emotional" conne..."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

Let's not act like Hillary is just doing what everybody else does. No other presidential candidate has been married to a former president and been able to claim their successes. And No recent democratic has been anywhere near as dirty as she is.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (c) murph

but yeah, I don't get how people aren't calling out her BS

when labeled establishment by Bern

she spun it to...who widdle ol' me...I'm only a 2 term senator from the great state of NY and secretary of state...he's way more establishment than me

next breath

ALL BOATS WERE LIFTED BY THE ECONOMIC TIDE MY HUSBAND GAVE TO THIS COUNTRY!

blows my mind that she's allowed to cherry pick her successes

and nobody calls her out on her faiLures.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Jan-26-16 06:11 PM

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121. "RE: It was more than just an "emotional&quo..."
In response to Reply # 119
Tue Jan-26-16 06:12 PM by murph71

          

>Let's not act like Hillary is just doing what everybody else
>does. No other presidential candidate has been married to a
>former president and been able to claim their successes. And
>No recent democratic has been anywhere near as dirty as she
>is.
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (c)
>murph

I voted for Obama in that last election against Hill Dawg...So I def. have had my issues with Clinton in the past. But u know what I don't have an issue with? Her being a woman and being married to an ex President...

I'm old school, dog....I vote for the candidate with the best chance of winning...If Hillary ends up getting beat in the first three states then yeah...I'm rolling with Bernie....

But at this point I still think Hillary has the best chance...That's all I got....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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bentagain
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Tue Jan-26-16 06:21 PM

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122. "RE: being married to an ex President..."
In response to Reply # 121
Tue Jan-26-16 06:25 PM by bentagain

  

          

speaking for myself, you and truth can quibble about that

my issue is when she puffs her chest up and wants to take credit for the high water marks of Bill's administration

there were also ALOT of f'd up things that came out of that administration as well

if she's going to open that door

then let's talk about ALLADAT.

i.e. MASS INCARCERATION, etc...

she's also been pulling that same BS with BHO's administration

there's some f'd up thing coming out this administration as well

i.e. INCOME INEQUALITY

listening to her is nauseating.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Jan-26-16 06:38 PM

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124. "RE: being married to an ex President..."
In response to Reply # 122


          

>speaking for myself, you and truth can quibble about that


Yeah...but that's my point...This^^^^should not be something to quibble about...At all....

Other than that, u can vote for who u want to, homie....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Jan-26-16 06:03 PM

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120. "RE: It was more than just an "emotional" conne..."
In response to Reply # 117


          

>
>>And don't forget...she's a lying ass bitch >
>
>she is.
>
>and a
>>woman.....!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>But let's be clear here...Clinton is a politician...Plain
>and
>>simple...They are ALL politicians...So let's not try to
>>separate what she is doing with how this game is usually
>>played.....
>
>Let's not act like Hillary is just doing what everybody else
>does. No other presidential candidate has been married to a
>former president and been able to claim their successes. And
>No recent democratic has been anywhere near as dirty as she
>is.


U talking about Hillary Clinton because she was married to Bill?...U sound like some Right Wing Hack....lol

Listen...I got my issues with Clinton...But I'm not going to be in that cave man WHAT HAS SHE EVEN DONE camp.....That's just silly...

And on the real I zeroed in on your NO ONE HAS EVER HUGGED UP ON A FORMER PRESIDENT'S LEGACY point...As if this chick was created in some lab to become the worst, shadiest Presidential candidate in the history of politics...lol

Dog...there are some good reasons to be anti-Clinton...She's too cozy with Wall Street...She can be a war hawk <----------THESE r good reasons.....

That other misogynistic shit u throwing around is wack......

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jan-26-16 01:23 PM

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92. "RE: Elizabeth Warren"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

I had this conversation with a relative recently

IRT BHO being the first black POTUS

it wasn't just because he was black and electable

he was the best candidate

HRC is not

either the best candidate, or best female candidate

I do believe that is Elizabeth Warren.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Jan-26-16 01:33 PM

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94. "Warren is not a candidate."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

get the fuck over it.

fuck you.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jan-26-16 01:38 PM

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96. "RE: get the fuck over it."
In response to Reply # 94
Tue Jan-26-16 01:39 PM by bentagain

  

          

my my, very sensitive today are we?

I think you get my point

Warren >>> the current candidates

I don't recall that being the case with BHO

care to discuss?

---------------------------------------------------------------

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Jan-26-16 01:40 PM

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99. "no, i don't."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

b/c i don't care.

i think HRC is the best candidate of the current bunch. my mind is made up and has been for several months now. it won't change.

so no i don't care to discuss it.

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jan-26-16 06:31 PM

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123. "he is mad because he smells what the political kitchen is cooking"
In response to Reply # 96


          

I will vote for her if she wins the nomination but I really doubt she wins this election.

she is a very unlikeable person.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Jan-26-16 11:35 AM

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84. "^ dat 3am phone call."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

i'm not ready to vote for an old white man as POTUS. i forgot what it's like! it's been so long.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Jan-26-16 11:52 AM

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87. "By the way, the white dude I ride for Robert Reich came out for Bernie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://usuncut.com/politics/robert-reich-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-best-candidate/


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jan-26-16 01:20 PM

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91. "LOL, I've been linking Inequality for All as a reply to alot of propagan..."
In response to Reply # 87
Tue Jan-26-16 01:21 PM by bentagain

  

          

do people even know what socialism is

obviously, the fox news types are running with it based on the fear it will invoke from a historical context

but, as Robert Reich easily points out, the reason we are where we are today, economically, was by design, not accident

although the word socialist is repellent in the US

it's strange to see people reject ideas that will directly benefit them because of A word.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jan-26-16 02:33 PM

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106. "And one of the few economists I respect more, Paul Krugman, "
In response to Reply # 87


          

is vehemently supporting Hillary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/opinion/how-change-happens.html


And by the way, Reich's post isn't exactly an endorsement as much as just an explanation of Sanders's level of irrational support. He's even saying the Sanders supporters are torn between him and Trump.

Reich is saying that Sanders is getting traction by implying that he could fundamentally change the system. But it's a self-evident fact that he can't. The people who expect Bernie Sanders to fundamentally change the system are the same kind of people who expected Barack Obama to fundamentally change the system, and even felt betrayed when he couldn't. What was he supposed to do? What could Bernie Sanders possibly do? Nobody ever even seems to try to answer that question.

Real revolutions aren't won at the ballot box. If you want to fundamentally change the system, you have to play a very different game than Bernie is playing, a game that very few people really want to play.

But if you're interested in making sure things don't get a fuck of a lot worse, then you do whatever you can to elect a Democrat, any Democrat, and you work out your revolutionary fantasies somewhere else.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue Jan-26-16 02:49 PM

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109. "This part of Krugman's piece seems to inadvertently support Sanders"
In response to Reply # 106
Tue Jan-26-16 02:53 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

Although he doesn't really show support for Clinton here either.


>>
"But as Mr. Obama himself found out as soon as he took office, transformational rhetoric isn’t how change happens. That’s not to say that he’s a failure. On the contrary, he’s been an extremely consequential president, doing more to advance the progressive agenda than anyone since L.B.J.

Yet his achievements have depended at every stage on accepting half loaves as being better than none: health reform that leaves the system largely private, financial reform that seriously restricts Wall Street’s abuses without fully breaking its power, higher taxes on the rich but no full-scale assault on inequality."
>>



The candidate is only able to push through a limited portion or scaled down version of his/her agenda. Obama came in with lofty, transformative goals. But his legacy, Obamacare, is a massive compromise. But it was progressive. Incrementally progressive, but progressive nonetheless,

If you are trying to advanced an progressive agenda, your platform can not be the status quo or incremental progressions. Because what will be implemented is scaled down version of that increment.
So if Bernie comes through talking about single payer healthcare and government funded higher education, what Pres. Sanders may actually accomplish is a further push towards a single payer and a step in the direction towards free higher ed.

_______________________________________

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 03:38 PM

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112. "Obama campaigned on Obamacare and got Obamacare."
In response to Reply # 109


          


With the one caveat that the version he campaigned on wouldn't have worked, because there was no individual mandate.

The important point though it that it's naive to think that by staking a harder line before being elected, you can get a better compromise after being elected. There really just isn't such a thing as political compromise anymore.

The far more likely outcome of a Democrat taking a much harder line, especially in the current campaign, is that they simply won't get elected at all. If we nominate an unelectable candidate, then all the decisions get made by President Trump and his two houses of Republican-led Congress.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 03:57 PM

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113. "RE: Obama campaigned on Obamacare and got Obamacare."
In response to Reply # 112


          

>
>With the one caveat that the version he campaigned on wouldn't
>have worked, because there was no individual mandate.
>
>The important point though it that it's naive to think that by
>staking a harder line before being elected, you can get a
>better compromise after being elected. There really just isn't
>such a thing as political compromise anymore.
>
>The far more likely outcome of a Democrat taking a much harder
>line, especially in the current campaign, is that they simply
>won't get elected at all. If we nominate an unelectable
>candidate, then all the decisions get made by President Trump
>and his two houses of Republican-led Congress.



^^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38821 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 05:08 PM

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116. ""Mr Sanders is the heir to candidate Obama""
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

".. but Mrs. Clinton is the heir to President Obama."

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 05:51 PM

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118. "^ i read and agreed w/that recently."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

fuck you.

  

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