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Subject: "Making A Murderer on Netflix is Awesome" Previous topic | Next topic
thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41497 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 01:20 PM

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"Making A Murderer on Netflix is Awesome"


  

          

im about to start the 4th episode and i cant believe this shit....

Making A Murderer >>>>> Serial

trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxgbdYaR_KQ

1st episode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34M2zdLc-2U

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I'm finna check it out once I'm done wit all these bootlegs that dropped...
Dec 24th 2015
1
I'm 6 eps deep. The shit is outrageous.
Dec 24th 2015
2
just finished ep.4... this shit is bananas... my heart bleeds 4 his neph...
Dec 24th 2015
3
      ^^^^^^^ same exact deal.
Dec 27th 2015
11
Absolutely had a fit watching it...
Dec 24th 2015
4
ALL of this
Dec 26th 2015
9
'never trust a white person black people don't like'
Dec 29th 2015
45
INFUCKINGSANE!!!
Dec 25th 2015
5
she's probably one of the smartest in the family
Dec 30th 2015
55
      hell no.....the pops is by far the smartest
Dec 30th 2015
56
finished it.... im so disgusted.
Dec 25th 2015
6
RE: Making A Murderer on Netflix is Awesome
Dec 26th 2015
7
marathoned it. terrifying and too real
Dec 26th 2015
8
I tried.... i feel asleep twice on this.
Dec 26th 2015
10
it's like dateline, minus a good editor...
Dec 27th 2015
12
im a sucker for those crime investigative shows
Dec 27th 2015
13
      yeah, same here...
Dec 27th 2015
14
           My wife is *obsessed* with that channel.
Dec 28th 2015
16
           ^^ Shit will have you ready to start mixing molotov cocktails
Dec 29th 2015
46
Same here... gave up on that 1st episode, by that 2nd episode tho...
Dec 28th 2015
19
Magistrate to rule on Dassey lawsuit
Dec 28th 2015
15
I'm 4 episodes deep, and my jaw dropped so hard I'll need it wired
Dec 28th 2015
17
Hahahaha same here.
Dec 28th 2015
18
DO NOT WATCH THIS AT WORK LIKE I AM YO!!!
Dec 28th 2015
20
dogg i was home alone just fkng yelling at the tv like a lunatic
Dec 28th 2015
21
      THEY ARE, I'M MAD AT THEM YET I'M NOT MAD AT THEM!!!!
Dec 28th 2015
22
Finished it over the weekend. Heartbreaking.
Dec 28th 2015
23
guys a short troll and got this susan sarandon look a like milfy
Dec 28th 2015
24
      don't slander suze like that
Jan 06th 2016
145
Fell asleep on the first episode..................................BUT......
Dec 28th 2015
25
This is one of the most outrageous
Dec 28th 2015
26
SPOILERS + OPINIONS
Dec 28th 2015
27
Why do you believe he killed her?
Dec 28th 2015
28
I think Brendan's confession was clearly false & coerced.
Dec 28th 2015
29
      RE: I think Brendan's confession was clearly false & coerced.
Dec 28th 2015
32
           We are saying almost the same thing & yes, it's a hunch.
Dec 28th 2015
34
                but the question is what is there that makes him look guilty to you?
Dec 28th 2015
35
this is what troubles me (spoilers)
Dec 28th 2015
30
i think it's clear that Avery's defense is not painting the cops as murd...
Dec 28th 2015
31
Some things I learned: small town people really do submit to authority
Dec 28th 2015
33
I thought the whole "the defense attorney & the prosecutor eat lunch
Dec 28th 2015
37
nah educated whites reading the new yorker are probably more skeptical.
Dec 28th 2015
38
Not just small town people-- *everyone.*
Jan 02nd 2016
98
he had half a million coming to him...
Dec 28th 2015
36
just finished. ultimately, i'm left feeling depressed.
Dec 29th 2015
39
I hate this show man. (Spoilers)
Dec 29th 2015
40
everything you said about the jury is how i felt.
Dec 29th 2015
42
      Yeah, it was three jurors who would NOT be swayed by anything
Dec 29th 2015
43
           Right. But what I don't get about that is ...
Dec 29th 2015
44
                This is *much* easier said than done.
Jan 02nd 2016
102
                     I'm sure it is but ...
Jan 02nd 2016
105
                          Yeah, with how egregiously the state stacked the deck...
Jan 03rd 2016
111
I hope broke white people in rural Wisconsin are seeing this
Dec 29th 2015
41
They value the concept of whiteness more than justice
Dec 29th 2015
47
Exactly, fuck em.
Dec 29th 2015
49
FUCK THEM. They are not, nor will be the friend of Black People.
Dec 29th 2015
48
I'm amazed at the stupidity
Dec 29th 2015
50
I was confused as hell watching the first ep (until the last 30 secs)
Dec 29th 2015
51
it goes hard in the paint starting with episode 2.
Dec 30th 2015
52
His whole family is sadly uneducated....
Dec 30th 2015
53
Where are you from?
Dec 30th 2015
54
I get that...but my parents are from a third world country
Dec 30th 2015
60
      Gotcha.
Dec 30th 2015
61
           I get they have the small town mentality
Dec 30th 2015
62
                Hahah oh for sure.
Dec 30th 2015
63
                Yo. This killed me.
Dec 30th 2015
65
On one hand I couldn't stand them
Dec 30th 2015
57
I almost shed a tear to that part. I've never felt so bad for someone
Jan 15th 2016
151
DUDE....ARE WE THE ONLY ONES SEEING THIS???
Dec 30th 2015
58
      ZOMGZOMGZ!!! The system takes advantage of the uneducated?!?!?!
Dec 30th 2015
59
I wanted to punch that hot reporter
Dec 30th 2015
64
That pissed me off too.
Dec 30th 2015
68
Twitter account looking at facts
Dec 30th 2015
66
Prosecutor Kratz says Making A Murderer left out key facts (SWIPE)
Dec 30th 2015
67
why believe ANYTHING this fool has to say??
Dec 30th 2015
69
i would definitely need to see hard proof of what he says.
Dec 30th 2015
70
yeah I would need more than his word
Dec 30th 2015
71
The fact he's using "jailhouse confessions" as further evidence...
Jan 04th 2016
124
God I hope I never have to deal with the criminal justice system
Dec 31st 2015
72
I hated Hallbachs brother...I had no empathy for him
Dec 31st 2015
73
I spent a lot of time trying to convince myself *he* did it.
Dec 31st 2015
74
i mean, i wonder what he'd say in the private times.
Dec 31st 2015
76
For me it was him on the news before they found the body.
Dec 31st 2015
78
      And he said something about their grieving process.
Dec 31st 2015
80
      Also, someone had gone into her phone and deleted messages...
Jan 04th 2016
125
Kratz is the worst
Dec 31st 2015
75
Like this is bad, but...
Dec 31st 2015
77
What makes you think he did it?
Dec 31st 2015
79
Well, finish the show first....but (SPOILERS)
Dec 31st 2015
81
      i agree w you on this, but not on adnan
Dec 31st 2015
82
      you don't have to believe the police killed her or moved the body.
Dec 31st 2015
83
      How do you figure?
Dec 31st 2015
85
           as i said, and as it was hinted at...
Dec 31st 2015
86
                The judgements against the defense are pretty baffling.
Dec 31st 2015
87
      Ok but
Dec 31st 2015
84
      These are more or less why I can't blame the jury.
Jan 02nd 2016
100
           I understand what you're saying but ..
Jan 02nd 2016
106
                When you also weigh a lot of the non-included evidence...
Jan 03rd 2016
108
                     OK sure.
Jan 03rd 2016
109
                          Yeah, I reckon you're right. I just blame *way more* everyone else, lol.
Jan 03rd 2016
112
                               Yep yep. Totally.
Jan 03rd 2016
113
I still don't believe Adnan did it.
Jan 04th 2016
116
      right? Adnan didn't do that shit.
Jan 04th 2016
117
      Is Undisclosed really good?
Jan 04th 2016
119
           i loved it.
Jan 04th 2016
120
                Awesome. Ima start listening tonite.
Jan 04th 2016
121
                     RE: Awesome. Ima start listening tonite.
Jan 04th 2016
122
                          Dope. Thank you.
Jan 04th 2016
123
      I believe Adnan more than I believe Avery
Jan 04th 2016
118
Finally finished. I still don't believe Stevr or Brendan did it.
Jan 02nd 2016
88
so he's slick enough to clean up ALL DNA
Jan 02nd 2016
89
After watching this show I think he did it
Jan 02nd 2016
90
This is really, really stupid logic.
Jan 02nd 2016
91
LOL. u got the worst smoking gun ever.
Jan 02nd 2016
92
Furthermore he's not even correct.
Jan 02nd 2016
95
      i was just trying to ignore their false premise. lol.
Jan 02nd 2016
97
      I was going to say this. I just finished it-- he said it *a lot*, lol.
Jan 02nd 2016
99
nigga if you was on my jury...id killl myself
Jan 02nd 2016
93
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
Jan 02nd 2016
94
      They were like that on HIS jury...
Jan 02nd 2016
96
I'm really into statement analysis
Jan 02nd 2016
101
well, this monkey sez: "reply 95 tho?"
Jan 02nd 2016
104
Sure. I'm all for that type of analysis.
Jan 02nd 2016
107
but your logic is the reason why he ended up in jail for 18 years for
Jan 04th 2016
115
oh jesus fuckin christ
Jan 02nd 2016
103
To the "Yeah, it's wrong... but I think he did it" crowd:
Jan 03rd 2016
110
* THIS *
Jan 03rd 2016
114
this is exactly why i will not watch this show. great analysis.
Jan 05th 2016
132
Dang this show has Lester Holt and NBC News talking about it
Jan 04th 2016
126
If you liked this/Serial/Undisclosed, check out Truth & Justice.
Jan 04th 2016
127
Damn dogg. I have enough trouble keeping up with music and TV.
Jan 04th 2016
128
Juror contacted filmmakers, said he convicted out of "fear for his safet...
Jan 05th 2016
129
He's not getting out though. No matter what anyone says
Jan 05th 2016
130
right, or a pardon from the governor.
Jan 05th 2016
133
      Not as long as Scott Walker is governor.
Jan 05th 2016
134
           oh yeah, forgot he's the head douche in charge over there.
Jan 05th 2016
135
not surprised.
Jan 05th 2016
131
Sounds about right for this story man
Jan 05th 2016
136
I haven't watched the show yet but these filmmakers lying
Jan 05th 2016
142
      why?
Jan 06th 2016
144
      I'd be interested to hear an elaboration on this.
Jan 06th 2016
147
           Here is an elaboration for ya.
Jan 15th 2016
152
Brendan Dassey's Lawyer Speaks on TMZ Live
Jan 05th 2016
137
i mean, he's clearly a fuckboi.
Jan 05th 2016
138
      hes always cracking jokes
Jan 05th 2016
140
Who killed Teresa Halbach? The four alternative suspects
Jan 05th 2016
139
wow this thing gets weirder and weirder
Jan 05th 2016
141
      so #1 is Dassey's mom's husband. #4 is Dassey's brother.
Jan 05th 2016
143
           yep
Jan 06th 2016
146
Gotta hear both sides
Jan 08th 2016
148
Nope. Jigga! Kelly! Not Guilty.
Jan 08th 2016
149
I thought so too and I get what you're saying...
Jan 08th 2016
150
Theyre both innocent.
Jan 15th 2016
153
Nah, Steve killed that girl. Then the cops did too much to make sure
Jan 15th 2016
154
      nope.
Jan 15th 2016
157
You know how I know this was good?
Jan 15th 2016
155
Meh, gave it a try & started day dreaming then fell asleep
Jan 15th 2016
156

Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
14866 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 01:24 PM

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1. "I'm finna check it out once I'm done wit all these bootlegs that dropped..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

on the net this week.

I've heard nothing but great things bout it.

  

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Hitokiri
Charter member
22102 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 01:31 PM

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2. "I'm 6 eps deep. The shit is outrageous."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41497 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 02:51 PM

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3. "just finished ep.4... this shit is bananas... my heart bleeds 4 his neph..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 08:35 PM

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11. "^^^^^^^ same exact deal."
In response to Reply # 3


          

Gonna hopefully catch ep 5 tonite. I'm so disgusted. Everytime those assholes have one of those "police press conference"s I feel like I want to puke.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Walk On
Member since Apr 04th 2005
8332 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 04:12 PM

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4. "Absolutely had a fit watching it..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...just thinking bout the absurdity of how the police state gets away with how they treat negroes...

If they'll do this for a white family b/c they didn't "like their kind"...

Imagine what they did and are doing to us...

If Avery was black... They woulda just killed him...

And that's pretty much straight out the sherriff's mouth.

<--- #LoveCitees

message brought to you by...

www.onustees.com

  

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
20414 posts
Sat Dec-26-15 10:33 PM

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9. "ALL of this"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

shit is crazy

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Tue Dec-29-15 01:16 PM

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45. "'never trust a white person black people don't like' "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I had a friend from St.Louis tell me he lived by that.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Fri Dec-25-15 07:08 AM

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5. "INFUCKINGSANE!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

ok im on ep 4 and this nephew is dumb as a fkng rock and his mom is too

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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makaveli
Charter member
16303 posts
Wed Dec-30-15 10:01 AM

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55. "she's probably one of the smartest in the family"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

which is sad.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Wed Dec-30-15 11:04 AM

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56. "hell no.....the pops is by far the smartest"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

no way im allowing my kid to be interviewed w/out me there or an attorney..period...

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41497 posts
Fri Dec-25-15 09:22 PM

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6. "finished it.... im so disgusted."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
7007 posts
Sat Dec-26-15 12:08 AM

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7. "RE: Making A Murderer on Netflix is Awesome"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Shits pretty depressing..

couldn't make it to ep 2

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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jesustrauss
Member since Jul 20th 2006
1839 posts
Sat Dec-26-15 10:24 PM

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8. "marathoned it. terrifying and too real"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But no spoilers.

But damn.

  

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Kama7
Member since Mar 11th 2005
1448 posts
Sat Dec-26-15 10:56 PM

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10. "I tried.... i feel asleep twice on this."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 09:26 PM

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12. "it's like dateline, minus a good editor..."
In response to Reply # 10
Sun Dec-27-15 09:26 PM by ndibs

          

watched it. it was good, not great.

  

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
20414 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 10:09 PM

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13. "im a sucker for those crime investigative shows"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

so my threshold for bad is pretty high haha


ill watch almost any of those

  

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Dstl1
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56226 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 11:04 PM

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14. "yeah, same here..."
In response to Reply # 13


          

if folks are upset by this...I suggest they never turn to the Discovery ID channel. Some of the shit on there will get in your spirit. I had to seriously stop watching that channel completely.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 08:56 AM

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16. "My wife is *obsessed* with that channel."
In response to Reply # 14


          

It's kinda scary actually. Her obsession that is.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Tue Dec-29-15 01:18 PM

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46. "^^ Shit will have you ready to start mixing molotov cocktails "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 10:53 AM

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19. "Same here... gave up on that 1st episode, by that 2nd episode tho..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

MAAAAAAAAAN... listen...

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41497 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 12:25 AM

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15. "Magistrate to rule on Dassey lawsuit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2015/12/27/magistrate-rule-dassey-lawsuit/77799604/

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 10:19 AM

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17. "I'm 4 episodes deep, and my jaw dropped so hard I'll need it wired"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 10:25 AM

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18. "Hahahaha same here."
In response to Reply # 17


          

Happened last nite. Finished that ep and was like OHMIGODOHMIGOD

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 10:55 AM

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20. "DO NOT WATCH THIS AT WORK LIKE I AM YO!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

BECAUSE YOU WILL LITERALLY YELL OUT "THIS IS SOME FUCKIN BULLSHIT!!!" WHEN DIS SHIT HITS YOU! !!

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 10:59 AM

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21. "dogg i was home alone just fkng yelling at the tv like a lunatic"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

that kid and his mom pissed me the fk off the most i think

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 11:00 AM

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22. "THEY ARE, I'M MAD AT THEM YET I'M NOT MAD AT THEM!!!!"
In response to Reply # 21
Mon Dec-28-15 11:06 AM by mtbatol

          

#FuckTheSystem

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
17895 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 11:06 AM

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23. "Finished it over the weekend. Heartbreaking. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

On the one hand, I'd like to see more on the case.

On the other hand, how does Steve Avery manage to ALWAYS have a bottom b*tch in his corner?

I feel the worst for his nephew. I think he clearly got hosed.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 11:17 AM

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24. "guys a short troll and got this susan sarandon look a like milfy"
In response to Reply # 23


          

lady marrying him behind bars.

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Wed Jan-06-16 02:57 AM

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145. "don't slander suze like that"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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PROMO
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25. "Fell asleep on the first episode..................................BUT......"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it was super late on Christmas day and I was tired as fuck.

went back and started where i fell asleep last night.

BRUH!

I had to be to work at 7:30 this morning and I stayed up til 4:30am watching this shit. I just couldn't stop. It was only until I literally couldn't keep my eyes open and got mad cuz I kept having to rewind for parts I nodded off on that I finally went to bed.

can't wait to finish this shit.

WILD as fuck. this makes Adnan's case look like a misdemeanor and i loved Serial and Undisclosed (which matches up better w/ this than Serial does by a country mile).

  

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b2thej
Member since Feb 11th 2005
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Mon Dec-28-15 01:09 PM

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26. "This is one of the most outrageous"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

things I've ever heard or seen!!!!!!!! The DA, the cops, judge hell that whole fucking town is a gotdamn mess. This shit is really fucking sad.

PSN ID - dirty_MF_bucks

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
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27. "SPOILERS + OPINIONS "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think he killed that woman BUT there is no way that he should've been convicted of anything based on the evidence presented by the prosecution. His lawyers were thorough af tho & still got convicted. I am not surprised that the cjs fucks over working class white pepole; it's been doing that & will continue to do that.

How real was it tho when the defense lawyer was like, 'I kinda hope he is guilty b/c the idea of him being wrongfully convicted again is too much!' OR when the other defense attorney was like, 'most of us can say w/ certainty that we wouldn't commit a crime but we can't say that someone wouldn't accuse us of committing a crime & w/ this cjs?...if the latter happens, god help you.' LoL, I keep all my receipts w/ the time stamps on em...I keeps an alibi bih!!

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
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Mon Dec-28-15 04:28 PM

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28. "Why do you believe he killed her?"
In response to Reply # 27


          

If you think he did it, do you think anything Brandon confessed to was true?

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
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29. "I think Brendan's confession was clearly false & coerced."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I think the key was planted. I am not sure about the blood but the hole in the cap means I have questions/doubts about that too.

My feelings of his guilt boil down to...I think he's a sociopath & being wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years made him a vengeful & violent sociopath. Tbh tho, I'm 99.9% sure that there is no way I would've found him guilty on any counts b/c the State didn't appear to prove shit beyond a reasonable doubt imo.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
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Mon Dec-28-15 05:44 PM

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32. "RE: I think Brendan's confession was clearly false & coerced."
In response to Reply # 29


          

>I think he's a
>sociopath & being wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years made him
>a vengeful & violent sociopath.

On what basis though? Just a hunch you have?

I'm not saying he didn't do it, just that the evidence against him and lack of motive is so suspect I dont know how you could arrive at that conclusion.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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no_i_cant_dance
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Mon Dec-28-15 06:07 PM

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34. "We are saying almost the same thing & yes, it's a hunch."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Obvi, all I know about the case is what was featured in the documentary...But, if what was shown was supposed to be the most compelling evidence the prosecution had?? It is some absolute bullshit that dude was convicted on that evidence; the defense blew holes in like everything the prosecution presented. Like I said, I think he's guilty but I would not have voted guilty on a single count based on that shitty case the prosecution argued.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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PROMO
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35. "but the question is what is there that makes him look guilty to you?"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

i can't see why anyone would think he's guilty, but you do.

why? cuz you got a sociopath "vibe" from him?

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
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Mon Dec-28-15 04:58 PM

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30. "this is what troubles me (spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

on the one hand, they had no proof of anything. No proof that the woman was shot or killed, much less raped, much less on that property.

And the prosecution's story changed. They were doing all this predicated on Brendan's confession that she was strapped to the bed, and that's where she was raped and her throat cut. Then they said, "uh no, she was killed in the garage" And there was still no blood or DNA there.

BUT, her charred bones were found in a burn pit and a barrel. So we either have to believe that the cops killed this woman with the express intent of framing Steve Avery, or they somehow found her body, identified it, and decided to ignore another killer in order to frame Steve Avery.

That's such a tall order to believe. At the same time, there's no reason or motive given for Steve Avery to have killed this woman who's done business with him before. None.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

  

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PROMO
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31. "i think it's clear that Avery's defense is not painting the cops as murd..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

they made it pretty clear that someone close to her (the ex-BF or the roommate) likely killed her then preyed on the obsession they knew the police would have with Avery by setting up his property to look (as best they could) like the murder scene.

once the cops got it up their noses that this MIGHT have happened by Avery's hand and/or on his property they tried to lock down that theory by planting evidence, coercing witnesses, manipulating evidence testing, etc.

i'm shocked anyone could watch this and think that Avery is actually guilty of this woman's murder.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
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Mon Dec-28-15 05:59 PM

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33. "Some things I learned: small town people really do submit to authority"
In response to Reply # 27


          

and lack skepticism when it comes to how corrupt the people in authority are, you definitely don't want to go to trial in some backwoods type place, their mindset is that if the cops arrested you, you must be guilty.

That DA sounded like a woman more than most women do.

If you do a prison term because they railroaded you, and you get exonerated, MOVE!

Man, in the last couple episodes when the boy's lawyer was caught pretty much trying to help the prosecution, WOW, that's some of the sickest shit I've ever seen.

We really do need a strong federal government, because these local fucks have been out of line from day 1, they really think they can do whatever they want, the blue line extends all the way up to the state supreme court, they're all going to cover for each other.

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
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Mon Dec-28-15 06:17 PM

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37. "I thought the whole "the defense attorney & the prosecutor eat lunch"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

together/public defender=public pretender" thing was a common sentiment.

Also, I feel most white people trust cops but if I had to guess which subset of white people trust cops the least??...I would guess it would be poor/working class white people from small towns/big cities alike.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Mon Dec-28-15 06:24 PM

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38. "nah educated whites reading the new yorker are probably more skeptical."
In response to Reply # 37
Mon Dec-28-15 06:24 PM by ndibs

          

poor whites should be skeptical of police. but look at how they view republicans. when a white person gets shot here, 95% of the time they're poor and their poor toothless parent gets on the news and basically says they had it coming because they were involved with drugs for awhile.

  

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Frank Longo
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98. "Not just small town people-- *everyone.*"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

I know there are individuals here and there with deep mistrust of authority, but the overwhelming majority of society will willingly go along with authority rather than resist. The recent movie "Experimenter" covers this in detail. It's a disturbing reality.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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36. "he had half a million coming to him..."
In response to Reply # 27
Mon Dec-28-15 06:21 PM by ndibs

          

if he could just stay out of trouble. so i don't think he would do this.

he had a history of being stupid but not really violent. it wasn't like he was beating his wife or when he pulled that gun on his cousin, he pistol whipped or her anything. guy had no violent history.

i think someone killed that woman and knew they could dump a body on his property, there was no way they'd ever go to jail for it. that junkyard was a get out of jail free card for anyone in that town who committed murder.

  

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PROMO
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39. "just finished. ultimately, i'm left feeling depressed."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

great series though.

i still think both Avery and Dassey are innocent. what makes me the most sad/irritated is how the system is set up to perpetuate a conviction instead of serving to bring justice to light, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that a conviction was the incorrect outcome such as Dassey's.

if it teaches you one thing it's do anything in your power to stay out of the criminal justice system.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Dec-29-15 09:38 AM

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40. "I hate this show man. (Spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm thru episode 8 and I don't even want to see anymore. I don't particularly give a shit about the nephew at this point cause I know what's going to happen.

And I'm more upset with the jury than I am any of the cops, investigators, prosecutors, etc. Crooked cops and prosecutors gonna crooked cop and prosecutor. People with brains know it, expect it, aren't surprised by it. It's atrocious but it's not surprising. The jury is supposed to see thru the bullshit. How they could sit there for that whole trial and watch the prosecution trip over themselves, change their story, blatantly lie, stumble, etc....how they could witness all the shady shit they did during the investigation, all the tampered evidence....how they could see the clear and blatant conflict of interest......then come back with a verdict which is *supposed* to indicate that the evidence presented went beyond a reasonable doubt in proving a murder......ugh. I want terrible things to happen to every single one of those worthless pieces of shit.

And everytime I see that DA speak I want to go out and murder a cop. His little buddy there with the white hair and glasses has such a punchable face too.

I gotta do some work. I'm so angry.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PROMO
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42. "everything you said about the jury is how i felt."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

i just don't get it.

as soon as you show me the box with Avery's blood in it had both its seals broken then re-taped and his vial punctured with what one can only assume is a syringe then it's over for me. set him free.

i really have to wonder if the jury was rigged. i mean, initial vote was 7 not guilty but that got flipped to all 12 guilty? how sway?

the guy who left the jury made it sound like there were a few people who were there to boss the jury around in the deliberations, and that wouldn't shock me at all based on the other levels of corruption present.

  

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Marauder21
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43. "Yeah, it was three jurors who would NOT be swayed by anything"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

And they eventually wore down everyone else. Stubbornness won out.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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44. "Right. But what I don't get about that is ..."
In response to Reply # 43


          

even if the 3 "guilty" people were being stubborn, they are the ones who need to convince the others to get what they want so wouldn't that just be considered a "hung jury" or something ? I don't really know much about that process or the terminology but if I were in that room and 3 bullies were trying to tell me to change my tune about how shady that whole fuckshit was I'd just sit there with my arms crossed til someone told me we'd had too much time and it was time to go home.

But maybe I'm just stubborn.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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102. "This is *much* easier said than done."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

I don't really know much about that process or the
>terminology but if I were in that room and 3 bullies were
>trying to tell me to change my tune about how shady that whole
>fuckshit was I'd just sit there with my arms crossed til
>someone told me we'd had too much time and it was time to go
>home.
>
>But maybe I'm just stubborn.

Also keep in mind that we are being presented the *entire* story, including plenty of context and moments that the jury was not privy to at the time of the trial.

I'm surprised they were even able to initially convince 7 members, tbh. Selling a crowd of twelve laypeople from a small Midwestern town that a police conspiracy is responsible for the evidence sounds damn near impossible.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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105. "I'm sure it is but ..."
In response to Reply # 102


          

just in a general sense, it would take a whole lot of fucking heavy evidence to convince me to send a dood to jail for LIFE. That would weigh on me hard. Real tough to convince me. You'd damn near need HD video of the murder for me to say "yep - life. See ya." But that's probly why I'd never end up on a murder trial jury in the first place. Prosecution would wave me buh-bye after the first line of jury pool questioning.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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111. "Yeah, with how egregiously the state stacked the deck..."
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

... you wouldn't have *sniffed* that jury, lol.

You probably would've needed to say beforehand that you think he did it.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Marauder21
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41. "I hope broke white people in rural Wisconsin are seeing this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

because these are the people who routinely get fucked over by things like this but still have their Blue Lives Matter bumper stickers. Yes, it can happen to you, too, it's not just "those" people in the "bad" areas.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Tue Dec-29-15 01:23 PM

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47. "They value the concept of whiteness more than justice"
In response to Reply # 41
Tue Dec-29-15 01:24 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

or equality.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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49. "Exactly, fuck em."
In response to Reply # 47


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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48. "FUCK THEM. They are not, nor will be the friend of Black People."
In response to Reply # 41


          

>because these are the people who routinely get fucked over by
>things like this but still have their Blue Lives Matter bumper
>stickers. Yes, it can happen to you, too, it's not just
>"those" people in the "bad" areas.


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
Nike, G-Star, Herschel, Adidas (Men's & Women's clothing)

  

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makaveli
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50. "I'm amazed at the stupidity"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So frustrating and sad. I'm only on episode 4.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue Dec-29-15 09:19 PM

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51. "I was confused as hell watching the first ep (until the last 30 secs)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I thought the sexual assault conviction and reversal was it. I was thinking maybe the documentary series was just about all sorts of overturned cases and the murder ep was yet to come.

But then they drop the bombshell on me and it all made sense.
It was a little slow going, but I'm going to give the 2nd ep a shot

_______________________________________

  

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PROMO
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Wed Dec-30-15 01:22 AM

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52. "it goes hard in the paint starting with episode 2."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Wed Dec-30-15 02:49 AM

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53. "His whole family is sadly uneducated...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't know what's more jaw dropping how fucked up the story is or how uneducated they are. The convos between Brendan and his mom are hard as fuck to listen to.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Dec-30-15 08:40 AM

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54. "Where are you from?"
In response to Reply # 53


          

>I don't know what's more jaw dropping how fucked up the story
>is or how uneducated they are.

Obviously the jaw dropping thing is the fucked up story. Uneducated Americans is pretty par for the course.


The convos between Brendan and
>his mom are hard as fuck to listen to.

Yep. Those conversations take place millions of times all over the country every single day.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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60. "I get that...but my parents are from a third world country"
In response to Reply # 54
Wed Dec-30-15 12:52 PM by Heinz

  

          

Actual poor lol...actual poverty. My aunt was born in a jungle as my grandma was hiding from the Japanese during a war....they all speak better English and have a better education than Brendan and his mom.

Those two have more than a learning disability....they sounded damn near inbreded. It was sad as fuck to hear him think he was going to be home to finish and hand in his project at school, talk about missing wrestle mania, she bought him a cat instead of figuring out how her sons lawyer was in plain sight screwing them....just sad.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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61. "Gotcha."
In response to Reply # 60


          

>Actual poor lol...actual poverty. My aunt was born in a
>jungle as my grandma was hiding from the Japanese during a
>war....they all speak better English and have a better
>education than Brendan and his mom.
>
>Those two have more than a learning disability....they sounded
>damn near inbreded. It was sad as fuck to hear him think he
>was going to be home to finish and hand in his project at
>school, talk about missing wrestle mania, she bought him a cat
>instead of figuring out how her sons lawyer was in plain sight
>screwing them....just sad.

I hear you. Thing is it sounds like your family always had to fight to live. In other words hiding from Japanese during the war, full on poverty, etc. They came to America and already had the fighting spirit so despite their inability to understand the language and culture, they scratched and clawed to fit in because anything was better than going back to wherever they were originally from (I'm just guessing based on what you told me).

Meanwhile the Averys/the inbreds (agreed) are poor and from an area that doesn't exactly offer the greatest educational opportunities, but they're in America and white so they are still able to live relatively comfortably. They still didn't have to *fight* for anything. So there's a tendency to become complacent if you are born into a family business, with no particular need, desire or even option to move on to "bigger and better" things. Therefore they remain ignorant and relatively poor because there's no true need for them to scratch and claw to be able to live.

Unless of course the law comes after you. Then you need to scratch and claw, which they tried to do, but by then it was too late. And that's what is messed up about it. By no fault of their own, they became a cog in the judicial system just based on spite and power-hungry, corrupt people and the Averys were too far behind to keep up.

So I guess my overarching point is that you can't really blame the Averys for being slow/uneducated. It's human nature to remain complacent in a situation such as theirs, where the family business allowed them a massive plot of land to live and grow their family, with no particular need to grow outside of that or go get educated. But taking advantage of stupid people is certainly something to chastise/blame someone for.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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62. "I get they have the small town mentality "
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

and a lot of that is seen in this show but man.

Like when Brendan is asking his mom what "inconsistent" meant was so sad lol she couldnt answer.

  

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Brew
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63. "Hahah oh for sure."
In response to Reply # 62


          

>and a lot of that is seen in this show but man.
>
>Like when Brendan is asking his mom what "inconsistent" meant
>was so sad lol she couldnt answer.

Yea that made me cringe, too. Like - really?!?

It's tough to watch, for people with brains. No doubt about that.

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
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65. "Yo. This killed me."
In response to Reply # 62


          

I was definitely expecting her to be able to easily answer that for him.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
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Wed Dec-30-15 11:06 AM

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57. "On one hand I couldn't stand them"
In response to Reply # 53


          

On the other hand the situation was so fucked up I couldn't not empathize.

"Hello?"
"Yeah?"
"Yeah."
"Why did you tell them you did it if it's not true?"
"Because I'm stupid Mom."
*long pause*
"Not to me you're not."

smh lol

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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151. "I almost shed a tear to that part. I've never felt so bad for someone"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

who says their stupid. Most of us said it as kids just so that our parents could feel sympathy or say "no you aren't." But in this case.........like, he really is stupid.

------------------------------

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
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58. "DUDE....ARE WE THE ONLY ONES SEEING THIS???"
In response to Reply # 53
Wed Dec-30-15 11:07 AM by LAbeathustla

  

          

this is why i said above....its moms fault too..shes jus plain uneducated and it seems since theyve had trouble in the family before with this system shed be with her kid at ALL times hes being handled by these people when not locked up....

------------------------------------
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be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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PROMO
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59. "ZOMGZOMGZ!!! The system takes advantage of the uneducated?!?!?!"
In response to Reply # 58
Wed Dec-30-15 11:38 AM by PROMO

  

          

YOU DON'T SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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64. "I wanted to punch that hot reporter "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

who asked the lawyers how he should feel about accusing a cop of being corrupt by bringing up how his son is gonna go to school where kids are gonna make fun of him for his dad being a bad cop...LMAO yoooo fuck his son and his feelings, fuck Colburn and his kid in the asshole. Fuck that cunt reporter.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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68. "That pissed me off too. "
In response to Reply # 64


          

Such a typical dumb hot white girl who thinks she's super smart thing to say.

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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66. "Twitter account looking at facts"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/0Hour1

  

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PROMO
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67. "Prosecutor Kratz says Making A Murderer left out key facts (SWIPE)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/30/making-murderer-steven-avery-prosecutor-ken-kratz-evidence

Former Wisconsin state prosecutor Ken Kratz says Netflix’s Making a Murderer left out some key pieces of evidence against Steven Avery in its 10-part docuseries.

“You don’t want to muddy up a perfectly good conspiracy movie with what actually happened,” Kratz tells PEOPLE by email, “and certainly not provide the audience with the evidence the jury considered to reject that claim.”

Filmed and produced over ten years, Making a Murderer examines the twist-filled case of Avery, a Wisconsin man who was released from prison after being exonerated for sexual assault only to be arrested again and convicted for the murder of a young photographer, Teresa Halbach.

Avery is currently serving life in prison without the possibility of parole. But he maintains his innocence and believes he was framed in retribution for filing a $36 million lawsuit against the county and authorities. (Avery’s nephew, Brendan Dassey, was also convicted for her murder and will be eligible for parole in 2048.)

A ‘Targeted’ Crime?
Kratz, who says he was contacted by filmmakers Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos but declined to be interviewed for the series, believes Avery “targeted” Halbach.

He cites Halbach’s Oct. 10, 2005 visit to the property owned by Avery’s family for a photo shoot for AutoTrader magazine: According to Kratz, Avery allegedly opened his door “just wearing a towel.”

“She was creeped out ,” Kratz says by phone, later adding by email: “She said she would not go back because she was scared of him.”

At 8:12 a.m. on Oct. 31, the day Halbach was killed, Kratz says Avery called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” He says that Halbach knew Avery was leery of him, so he allegedly gave his sister’s name and number to “trick” Halbach into coming.

“Phone records show three calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct. 31,” says Kratz. “One at 2:24 , and one at 2:35 — both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives.

“Then one last call at 4:35 p.m., without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up…so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.”

Kratz Claims Further Evidence Against Avery
During his time in prison for a rape he was later cleared of, Kratz says Avery allegedly “told another inmate of his intent to build a ‘torture chamber’ so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released.” Kratz adds, “He even drew a diagram.”

Kratz also claims that “another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to ‘burn it.’ ” Halbach’s bones were discovered in the fire pit behind Avery’s house. He says they “were ‘intertwined’ with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn,” says Kratz, disputing the defense’s allegation that Halbach was burned elsewhere and her bones were later moved.

“Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere — never identified as Teresa’s — were from this murder was never established,” he adds.

According to Kratz, Avery’s DNA, which he says was not taken from his blood, was also found under the hood of Halbach’s car, a Toyota RAV4. “How did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat?” asks Kratz. Defense attorneys alleged that Avery’s blood, which was found in Halbach’s car, may have been planted, taken from a vial of Avery’s blood that was 11 years old.

Kratz also claims that a bullet, recovered from Avery’s garage, couldn’t possibly have been planted by police, as the defense also alleged. “Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery’s rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since Nov. 6, 2005,” says Kratz. “If the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from gun? This rifle, hanging over Avery’s bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa’s DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired before Nov. 5.”

Kratz, who resigned from his position as Calumet County District Attorney in 2010 following a sexting scandal, admitted that he sent suggestive messages to a crime victim and described his behavior as “deplorable” in an email. He says he had a prescription drug problem at the time. He believes, however, that “it’s exceedingly unfair to use that to characterize me as morally unfit” in Making a Murderer and says his later behavior shouldn’t have any bearing on the case.

“ was planned weeks ahead of time,” says Kratz. “ asked for that same girl to be sent. He was ready for her.”

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
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69. "why believe ANYTHING this fool has to say??"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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PROMO
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70. "i would definitely need to see hard proof of what he says."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

also, it appears that the twitter account posted above that is going over the evidence says the evidence doesn't prove what he's saying (although I find that twitter account hard to follow)

  

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makaveli
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71. "yeah I would need more than his word "
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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mrhood75
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124. "The fact he's using "jailhouse confessions" as further evidence..."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

...shows how weak his shit is.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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72. "God I hope I never have to deal with the criminal justice system"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's so easy for things to just turn terribly wrong.

I mean, they can't even trust their own lawyers. Brendan was talking about how he is innocent, but his own lawyer's investigator is acting just like the police detectives trying to coerce a confession out of him.
Shit's disgusting.

_______________________________________

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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73. "I hated Hallbachs brother...I had no empathy for him "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The fuckery was so clear as day, I would never want someone who was innocent to fall on the sword just so I can feel someone was caught. I would never feel justified. He's talking like he knows for sure what happened it's fucked up.

  

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Brew
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74. "I spent a lot of time trying to convince myself *he* did it."
In response to Reply # 73


          

The brother, that is.

Fuck that kid. Pompous little bitch.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PROMO
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76. "i mean, i wonder what he'd say in the private times."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

like, i know you want to find your sister's killer, and you want to believe this guy did it, but did NONE of that evidence strike you as odd or improbable? i mean, that's how it came across but maybe even though he had doubts he just needed someone to be guilty.

Or, he could be a conniving douche like most of those law enforcement folks.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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78. "For me it was him on the news before they found the body. "
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

His answer was suspect.

"My family and I just need to get through this and have closure. Or she comes home alive" like what?

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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80. "And he said something about their grieving process."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

She wasn't found at that point so...

------------------------------

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Demallcrazy
Member since Sep 20th 2006
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125. "Also, someone had gone into her phone and deleted messages..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

And he said he had her password... suspect as fuck.

.........
moo

  

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makaveli
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75. "Kratz is the worst"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

what a terrible human being.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Ryan M
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77. "Like this is bad, but..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You guys know he probably did it right?

Not unlike Adnan.

The police almost certainly planted evidence, and he shouldn't have been convicted, but he probably did that shit man. Not the nephew though.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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79. "What makes you think he did it?"
In response to Reply # 77
Thu Dec-31-15 03:11 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

I'm not done with the show yet, but I haven't seen anything that even remotely points to Steve as the murderer. Other than the "evidence" that was easily debunked.

I don't think he's clever enough to leave behind no traces of a murder. Seems like the type to keep an evidence condo

If he did it, there would be crazy evidence all over

_______________________________________

  

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Ryan M
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81. "Well, finish the show first....but (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

....obviously, finish - then read all the articles about it afterwards.













SPOILERS









Here's the thing. I think there's legitimately police and government corruption at play here. He shouldn't have been convicted. But I'm also not going to take 10 hours of a heavily edited documentary and call it gospel. We forget a few things in watching it - namely that Steven Avery isn't a good dude. He killed a cat...violently, and then called it "horsing around" with his friends. He waved a gun at his cousin....AFTER he drove her off the road. And there's a lot of chatter about him molesting his nephew.

Also - you have to believe one of two things if you think he's innocent. One - that the police found the body and moved it onto his property. Possible, perhaps...and that may explain the call that the cop made on her license plates...but still very improbable. Two - you think the cops killed Theresa. To me, that's straight up insane.

I don't think the murder happened in the way they said it did - and that's why they didn't find evidence, blood, etc. I do think, based off what I've read since finishing, that Avery had an unhealthy obsession with Theresa - she felt uncomfortable around him. I also think there's some validity in him owning cuffs/chains/ropes for sex play, as he said he had that stuff for use with his girlfriend at the time, and he may have raped her - who knows. Reportedly, a prisoner who was with him in jail the first time around said he was going to make a torture chamber. Take that with a grain of salt.

I think police wanted to make sure he went away this time....and they planted things. Not sure what - perhaps the blood (though DNA was found under the cars hood...of SA's sweat, not blood), perhaps the car, perhaps the bullet. They're dirty as fuck, for sure. But none of this adds up, because it didn't happen the way they say it did.

I think it's weird SO much was done publicly - the press conference after Brendan's confession especially.

It's a very, very sad story...I just don't think he's innocent. The things I can't get out my head are his bonfire, the remains being found on his property, and the fact that she was at his property late that afternoon and not seen elsewhere (phone records, etc)...pretty damning.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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dba_BAD
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82. "i agree w you on this, but not on adnan"
In response to Reply # 81


          

n/m

__

fairweather

  

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PROMO
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83. "you don't have to believe the police killed her or moved the body."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

just, FYI.

also, if you read that twitter someone posted above then they seem to think that what you say about his "obsession" with her isn't true based on their analysis of the actual evidence.

i don't think he killed her because there'd just be more damning physical evidence on his property OUTSIDE of her bones plus the whole thing of his blood being tampered with AND the evidence that "proves" he did it (bullet, car key) showing up months after the murder after his entire life has been poured over and being in obvious plain sight suddenly...and that coinciding with the local cops being on his property.

  

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Ryan M
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Thu Dec-31-15 05:11 PM

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85. "How do you figure?"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

What's another scenario in which the body is found on his property and he wasn't the murderer? Someone in the family?

------------------------------

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PROMO
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86. "as i said, and as it was hinted at..."
In response to Reply # 85
Thu Dec-31-15 05:22 PM by PROMO

  

          

it appears his defense believes someone close to her (the ex or her roommate) killed her and then took advantage of the police's disdain for the Averys by moving the body to the Avery property. based on the evidence * I * heard, this seems VERY possible.

they weren't saying the police killed her. what they were saying is once the remains turn up on his property it's full speed ahead on making sure he gets convicted for it.

the biggest hindrance totheir defense was when the judge ruled that they wouldn't be allowed to present alternate theories to who did it.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Thu Dec-31-15 05:26 PM

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87. "The judgements against the defense are pretty baffling."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

Also the fact that the defense in the Brendon case didn't show the last part of the confession with him and his mom talking.

There's a lot here that just shows how flawed our court system is - and, if you're on trial, you not only need a great lawyer (and I think SA's lawyers were VERY good), you also need luck in the jury pool.

But I haven't read that theory you laid out yet...this is all fascinating.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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84. "Ok but"
In response to Reply # 81
Thu Dec-31-15 05:05 PM by Heinz

  

          

>SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Here's the thing. I think there's legitimately police and
>government corruption at play here. He shouldn't have been
>convicted. But I'm also not going to take 10 hours of a
>heavily edited documentary and call it gospel. We forget a few
>things in watching it - namely that Steven Avery isn't a good
>dude. He killed a cat...violently, and then called it "horsing
>around" with his friends. He waved a gun at his
>cousin....AFTER he drove her off the road. And there's a lot
>of chatter about him molesting his nephew.
>
Theres no proof of this right? And that side of the family comes off really odd itself. Both sides are so odd that I don't know who to believe...Something happened between the family that theres definitely a divide. It could be totally unrelated.


>Also - you have to believe one of two things if you think he's
>innocent. One - that the police found the body and moved it
>onto his property. Possible, perhaps...and that may explain
>the call that the cop made on her license plates...but still
>very improbable. Two - you think the cops killed Theresa. To
>me, that's straight up insane.
>
The cops or them just finding aa woman who was murdered and them trying to pin it on Steve isn't that insane. It's a small town. I wouldnt be surprised if they thought have 1 person die instead of giving Steve Avery millions of dollars is a better alternative. Money makes people do stupid shit. This isn't far fetched.


>I don't think the murder happened in the way they said it did
>- and that's why they didn't find evidence, blood, etc. I do
>think, based off what I've read since finishing, that Avery
>had an unhealthy obsession with Theresa - she felt
>uncomfortable around him. I also think there's some validity
>in him owning cuffs/chains/ropes for sex play, as he said he
>had that stuff for use with his girlfriend at the time, and he
>may have raped her - who knows. Reportedly, a prisoner who was
>with him in jail the first time around said he was going to
>make a torture chamber. Take that with a grain of salt.
>
They put him away for other they made up, they made up a lot of shit in this case. they crossed so many lines and fucked with a young kid to put him away and use him against his uncle....what makes you think this story wasn't made up by putting pressure on the inmate? Like out of all things to believe and at any time this is the one you believe? lol Now that to me is more insane.

>I think police wanted to make sure he went away this
>time....and they planted things. Not sure what - perhaps the
>blood (though DNA was found under the cars hood...of SA's
>sweat, not blood), perhaps the car, perhaps the bullet.
>They're dirty as fuck, for sure. But none of this adds up,
>because it didn't happen the way they say it did.
>
>I think it's weird SO much was done publicly - the press
>conference after Brendan's confession especially.
>
I totally agree. Its weird.

> It's a very, very sad story...I just don't think he's
>innocent. The things I can't get out my head are his bonfire,
>the remains being found on his property, and the fact that she
>was at his property late that afternoon and not seen elsewhere
>(phone records, etc)...pretty damning.
>
U are right its hard to believe a lot of stuff on both sides. I honestly dont trust anyone involved. Victims. Steve, the cops...a lot of things on all sides don't add up.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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100. "These are more or less why I can't blame the jury."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

It's not the jury's fault that they weren't allowed to present alternate suspects, that they weren't able to get a mistrial, that they weren't able to suppress Brendan's confession, that they weren't able to suppress the shitty blood test, etc.

I don't think the police frame theory is *that* insane, considering how much they were going to have pay Avery (without insurance covering it, to boot), and I don't think the theories that a boyfriend/friend took advantage of police bias and framed Avery are that insane either.

That having been said, considering how hamstrung the defense attorneys were regarding what they were and weren't allowed to present and/or suppress, I can't really blame the jury much. The fact that seven of them initially felt he wasn't guilty but they changed to unanimous guilty tells me that the three initial guilty voters kept saying, "Explain these things then." And you can't explain them with what the defense was allowed to present-- unless you, as a random juror, are willing to immediately believe the police conspiracy angle.

That's a much harder pill to swallow for most than it is that the last man who saw him alive, whose blood was there, who had the car, who had the bones, did it.

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Brew
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106. "I understand what you're saying but .."
In response to Reply # 100


          

in theory, the prosecution is supposed to present evidence that this guy murdered that girl WITHOUT A REASONABLE DOUBT. There were a trillion reasonable doubts, so I'm sorry but I can and will blame the jury on this. The three "guilty" folks can say "explain this" all they want but if I'm being asked to send a man to jail FOR LIFE then it's the guilty people who should be the ones answering the "explain this" questions, not me.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Frank Longo
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108. "When you also weigh a lot of the non-included evidence..."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

... the verdict becomes more clear.

Again, I'm not saying it should've gone down that way, and I'm fully on board with presuming Avery innocent.

I just don't blame the jurors. I blame the system for setting him up, really stacking the deck, and putting the jurors in an incredibly difficult situation.

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Brew
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109. "OK sure."
In response to Reply # 108
Sun Jan-03-16 06:02 PM by Brew

          

But the jurors shoulder *some* of the responsibility. And I actually meant to say that in my last response to you.

I'd weigh it 70/30. But the jurors are not blameless. At all. Especially those that were so easily persuaded. They are *not* blameless.

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Frank Longo
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112. "Yeah, I reckon you're right. I just blame *way more* everyone else, lol."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

In society, people defer to authority figures waaaaaay more often than not. Which is why authority figures are supposed to follow procedure, to keep the deck from getting stacked-- because the overwhelming majority of Americans will believe what policemen and government-called experts say. That's human nature.

So I tend to put way more blame on those who do the deck-stacking than those who share the somewhat-icky blind compliance to authority figures with the majority of society. But I agree that I can't simply wash their hands entirely based on that.

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Brew
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113. "Yep yep. Totally."
In response to Reply # 112


          

>In society, people defer to authority figures waaaaaay more
>often than not. Which is why authority figures are supposed to
>follow procedure, to keep the deck from getting stacked--
>because the overwhelming majority of Americans will believe
>what policemen and government-called experts say. That's human
>nature.
>
>So I tend to put way more blame on those who do the
>deck-stacking than those who share the somewhat-icky blind
>compliance to authority figures with the majority of society.
>But I agree that I can't simply wash their hands entirely
>based on that.

Agreed 100%. Like I said my main point was just that the jury isn't *totally* blameless in this whole thing. But yea - the people who "know better" and who have the power are absolutely more deplorable than the jury.

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
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116. " I still don't believe Adnan did it."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

  

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PROMO
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117. "right? Adnan didn't do that shit. "
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

But if you only listened to Serial and not Undisclosed you wouldn't know that.

  

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Brew
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119. "Is Undisclosed really good?"
In response to Reply # 117


          

Not that I doubted it I just never got around to listening to it.

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PROMO
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120. "i loved it. "
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

i mean, there are times where it goes in circles a little bit, but as far as exposing the prosecution on their bullshit as well as Adnan's own legal defense, it was pretty incredible.

i mean, i'd have to say that Undisclosed * IS * at least partially responsible for Adnan having a new hearing. those people dug up the dirt on his lawyer that should prove ineffective counsel as well as the evidence showing that the state's case was based on false evidence.

  

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Brew
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121. "Awesome. Ima start listening tonite."
In response to Reply # 120


          

How many episodes?

Also - what *is* the latest on his situation? I heard about the "new hearing" but when is it ?

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PROMO
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122. "RE: Awesome. Ima start listening tonite."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

>How many episodes?

17 official episodes, but they do these addendums of varying length. with the addendums i think it's about 25-30 total. i would say if you wanna speed thru you could stick to the episodes but there are some good things in those addendums you might want to hear (like the one talking about the discovery of Hae's body and the lividity and rigor mortis where they spoke with a couple independent medical examiners). i don't think they dropped any off the "whammo" info in the addendums but i can't recall.

>Also - what *is* the latest on his situation? I heard about
>the "new hearing" but when is it ?

if i remember correctly, it's in late January. Undisclosed has technically closed the book on Adnan's case (and are taking on a new story in the next "season") but they said that they will have a big update episode(s) once everything happens with that.

  

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Brew
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123. "Dope. Thank you."
In response to Reply # 122


          

I'll likely listen to all of it cause I have a kind of OCD/phobia about missing anything if I'm gonna do it in the first place.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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118. "I believe Adnan more than I believe Avery"
In response to Reply # 116


          

_______________________________________

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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88. "Finally finished. I still don't believe Stevr or Brendan did it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

All of these other facts, inmates, etc all can be made up just like the rest of the evidence they made up. There is no reason to even believe that stuff.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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89. "so he's slick enough to clean up ALL DNA "
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jan-02-16 10:23 AM by Mr. ManC

  

          

from a violent murder scene, to where they dont find a drop of her dna in the garage or bedroom, among ALL that clutter.....and yet that same person leaves her vehicle parked in somewhat plain site? Why not burn the car ans crush it? He leaves no blood at the alleged murder scene, but then drizzles his in her car? So much fuckery.



________________________________________________
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SUPA NERD LLC.
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#13irteen

  

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scrollock
Member since Dec 16th 2003
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Sat Jan-02-16 10:57 AM

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90. " After watching this show I think he did it "
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jan-02-16 11:00 AM by scrollock

          

Why?

Because at no point did he say I did not kill her without being prompted to do so first. Aka every time he denied killing her was when somebody else brought it up he had many chances throughout this entire 10 hour documentary to deny the fact that he killed her within his own statements.

Example: when he was talking about they're going to pin this one on me etc. at no point did he say : and they shouldn't pin this on me because I did not kill her. But when someone said :and how did you do it ? (Or made some accusatory comment ) THEN he would just say I didn't do it . His denial was always a reaction to being accused.

So that's why think he did it.

__________________
boys to the yard

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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91. "This is really, really stupid logic."
In response to Reply # 90


          

----------------------------------------

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PROMO
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92. "LOL. u got the worst smoking gun ever."
In response to Reply # 90
Sat Jan-02-16 12:58 PM by PROMO

  

          

i mean, lets just ignore the dearth of evidence until the Manitowoc cops show up in his house days later and find it all when no one is watching them, or the fact that his blood sample was CLEARLY tampered with, or that the lady's OWN DNA isn't on her own key or that the cop ran her plates when the car was still missing.

but nah, THAT'S your proof he did it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

why would an innocent man need to run around just opening conversations with "i didn't do it." you know you didn't do it so of course you're only going to react when people bring it up or accuse you.

i'm not saying it's impossible he did it - i'm saying this being your reasoning that he did is the funniest thing i've heard all week.

  

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Brew
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95. "Furthermore he's not even correct."
In response to Reply # 92


          

Many, many times he came right out and said some variation of the phrase "I'm innocent" without being prompted. Many times.

----------------------------------------

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PROMO
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97. "i was just trying to ignore their false premise. lol."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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99. "I was going to say this. I just finished it-- he said it *a lot*, lol."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
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93. "nigga if you was on my jury...id killl myself"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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PROMO
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94. "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

the thing that's not funny?

people like this are ALWAYS on the jury.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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96. "They were like that on HIS jury..."
In response to Reply # 94


          

There were three people who had their minds made up beforehand that he was guilty and refused to budge, facts be damned.

Basically compelled the other jurors to side with then.

_______________________________________

  

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scrollock
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101. "I'm really into statement analysis"
In response to Reply # 90


          

But I forgot where i am

Dance monkeys!

__________________
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PROMO
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104. "well, this monkey sez: "reply 95 tho?""
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

  

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Brew
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107. "Sure. I'm all for that type of analysis."
In response to Reply # 101


          

Statements, body language, all of that. I always look for cues and clues in body language and the way suspects answer questions.

The problem is that you lied.

----------------------------------------

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
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Mon Jan-04-16 10:07 AM

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115. "but your logic is the reason why he ended up in jail for 18 years for "
In response to Reply # 101
Mon Jan-04-16 10:10 AM by StephBMore

  

          

a rape he didn't commit. because ppl refuse to look at the facts and just want someone to get charged with the crime. Because he never explicitly said "I didn't do it" without being prompted? I don't understand this at all...and the documentary isn't his WHOLE life it's just what was recorded and made available to us. I'm sure in his day to day life he has told ppl without prompts I didn't do it. He said earlier, he always takes responsibility for whatever he has done...

how can anyone deny there was a conspiracy against this man? he got fucked and the sheriff still has ppl to this day after him...and the thing is, he could have very well done this but why would anyone trust and think that he did given how shady he has been treated? I read an article that talked about him calling the lady about the car...and that's what they are using to pin this murder on him. Same as how they did to Adnan Syed.

  

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thegodcam
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103. "oh jesus fuckin christ"
In response to Reply # 90
Sat Jan-02-16 09:06 PM by thegodcam

  

          

.

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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110. "To the "Yeah, it's wrong... but I think he did it" crowd:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... do you all realize that that mentality is precisely what allows procedural wrongdoing and miscarriages of justice to happen? That this reaction is absolutely why this show is so scary?

They set up Avery as a bad dude. They run through in the first episode all of his fuck-ups. They reveal him pulling the gun and being inappropriate toward his cousin. They show his frightening letters from prison. They give us all of that.

And yet, despite *all of this,* the fact remains that evidence was unquestionably staged, the state knowingly presented both the fraudulent evidence and the coerced confessions as fact, and it never should've even reached the point where that jury, who heard what they heard, should've been responsible to deliver the verdict.

It's impossible for me to trust the presented evidence after all of the wrongdoing. Avery is undoubtedly a creepy dude with inappropriate and possibly violent tendencies. He is not undoubtedly the killer, and he DEFINITELY undoubtedly should not have been convicted-- or even have gone to trial with that jury, in my opinion.

So when people say, "yeah, he shouldn't have been convicted, it should've been a mistrial, etc... but I think he did it."... that's the same thought process that caused the cops to set him up, that caused the state to railroad his defense's possible maneuvers, that caused the jury to convict, that caused the judge to bring down life, that caused all appeals to be denied, etc. They "think he did it." Even if they don't think it happened the way the state argued it happened, they just think he did it, so it's okay to send him away for it.

That should absolutely scare the hell out of everyone.

And don't respond saying "did you see the evidence they didn't include in the doc tho?" Because yes, of course I did, lol. It was literally the first thing I did after the final episode. And I can't believe the testimony and/or the evidence gathering of *anyone* involved in this trial because of the egregious deviations from procedure.

THAT'S WHY PROCEDURE EXISTS-- to prevent those in power from stacking the deck and misleading the jury based on an investigation conducted with blinders on.

An astonishingly unsettling series. Literally anyone on this board could catch the wrong end of a grudge from someone in power, and absolutely go to jail for the rest of his or her life.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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PROMO
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114. "* THIS *"
In response to Reply # 110
Sun Jan-03-16 07:03 PM by PROMO

  

          

>
>And don't respond saying "did you see the evidence they didn't
>include in the doc tho?" Because yes, of course I did, lol. It
>was literally the first thing I did after the final episode.
>And I can't believe the testimony and/or the evidence
>gathering of *anyone* involved in this trial because of the
>egregious deviations from procedure.
>
>THAT'S WHY PROCEDURE EXISTS-- to prevent those in power from
>stacking the deck and misleading the jury based on an
>investigation conducted with blinders on.
>

this is specifically why Avery's lawyers went after the state's DNA tech so hard. because this was the ONLY time in the history of her career that she broke with protocol to file a "special" finding that the DNA was a match, when it should have been invalidated due to her contamination.

protocol.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Tue Jan-05-16 11:06 AM

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132. "this is exactly why i will not watch this show. great analysis."
In response to Reply # 110


          

  

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Case_One
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126. "Dang this show has Lester Holt and NBC News talking about it"
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.

  

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PROMO
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127. "If you liked this/Serial/Undisclosed, check out Truth & Justice."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This podcast ran kind of concurrent with with Serial and Undisclosed about the Adnan Syed (Truth & Justice dug up that ridiculous shit about Don's moms - yes both - being his managers and covering up for him).

But they just started a new season and after the first 2 eps it sounds really promising and interesting.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Jan-04-16 09:13 PM

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128. "Damn dogg. I have enough trouble keeping up with music and TV."
In response to Reply # 127


          

Now you got me feeling all insecure about my podcast situation too. Haha.

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jan-05-16 10:56 AM

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129. "Juror contacted filmmakers, said he convicted out of "fear for his safet..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Believes Steven was framed and should get a trial far from Wisconsin.

https://twitter.com/todayshow/status/684373410038718464

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue Jan-05-16 11:04 AM

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130. "He's not getting out though. No matter what anyone says"
In response to Reply # 129
Tue Jan-05-16 11:10 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

I bet the "true" murderer can come forward and he'll still be locked up.

Words can't save him now. Only forensic evidence conclusively pointing to another killer. And I don't think that exists.

_______________________________________

  

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PROMO
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133. "right, or a pardon from the governor. "
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

but i mean, then that's essentially the state admitting fault.

i mean, MAYBE that get enough pressure from w/in the state that it happens, but i doubt it.

  

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Frank Longo
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Tue Jan-05-16 12:03 PM

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134. "Not as long as Scott Walker is governor."
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

He doesn't pardon convicted criminals.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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PROMO
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135. "oh yeah, forgot he's the head douche in charge over there."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

  

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PROMO
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131. "not surprised."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

i wouldn't even be shocked if it ever came out that the 3 "bullies" on the jury were the ones threatening everyone - that they were plants by the state/county to make sure everything went their way.

i mean, the shit sounds crazy but in light of everything else, is it REALLY that crazy?

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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136. "Sounds about right for this story man"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

im ready for any crazy weird unbelievable shit to come out lol

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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142. "I haven't watched the show yet but these filmmakers lying"
In response to Reply # 129


          

I'll give their work a fair chance but from the few media spots I've seen I wouldn't trust them to tell me where the bathroom is.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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PROMO
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144. "why?"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
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147. "I'd be interested to hear an elaboration on this."
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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152. "Here is an elaboration for ya. "
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2016/01/making_a_murderer_is_so_emotionally_manipulative_it_left_me_angry.html


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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thegodcam
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Tue Jan-05-16 08:27 PM

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137. "Brendan Dassey's Lawyer Speaks on TMZ Live"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfp4rFuyt-Y

what a disgusting piece of shit

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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PROMO
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138. "i mean, he's clearly a fuckboi. "
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

dude looks like the douchebag boss ripping off old ladies in The Incredibles.

  

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Heinz
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140. "hes always cracking jokes"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

like this shit is about him...its his moment lol

  

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thegodcam
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139. "Who killed Teresa Halbach? The four alternative suspects"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/makingamurdereralternativesuspects.html

Who killed Teresa Halbach? The four alternative suspects


By Jessica McBride RSS Feed Twitter Feed
Special to OnMilwaukee.com

Published Dec. 29, 2015 at 1:06 p.m. 7

When binge-watching Netflix's fascinating series "Making a Murderer," it became clear that there was one glaring angle left out: If Steven Avery (and Brendan Dassey) didn't do it, who did? The documentary barely mentions alternative suspects.

A review of court records shows that Avery's defense attorneys tried to raise details about four other possible suspects at trial, but the judge – and later the appellate court – wouldn't let them.

The court documents show other people with unsavory criminal histories – including against women – had easy access to the salvage yard property where Teresa Halbach disappeared. But the defense wasn't allowed to tell the jury about them.

The filmmakers largely dodged this point, only making the most subtle of allusions to it. Of course, they needed the cooperation of the Avery family in order to run all of that inside footage and some alternative suspects had ties to the family itself. The details wreck the rosy narrative of the homespun, salt-of-the-earth clan, but it makes the actual story far more interesting.

Although the defense attorneys claimed at trial that Manitowoc County law enforcement officers planted evidence (which the officers and prosecution deny), they stated that they didn't think the officers murdered photographer Teresa Halbach. Rather, they alleged that the law enforcement officers planted evidence to strengthen a case against a guy they thought was already guilty: Steven Avery, who had served 18 years in prison for a previous sexual assault he didn't commit, a case in which some of those same officers were involved. Yet the documentary focuses mostly on the law enforcement officers, not delving deeply into the backgrounds of others whom the defense wanted to argue might have done it.

The cops were not among the four alternative murder suspects presented by the defense in the motion denied by the judge. The only alternative suspect the judge would allow the jury to hear about was his 16-year-old nephew Brendan Dassey, who had confessed – and then repeatedly unconfessed – but Avery did not choose to blame Dassey at trial. He also was not among the four.

As I wrote in a previous column, the 10-part series – built on a mountain of video, audio and documentary evidence – raises deeply troubling questions about the actions of law enforcement officers and the earlier defense team of Dassey all the same. I became convinced the cognitively challenged Brendan Dassey deserves a new trial (there is a motion pending in federal court to get him one). I remain less certain about Avery. Did he do it, as a jury concluded? He might have. However, I am less sure than I was before. If you don't agree, at least watch the series first.

I am even less sure that Avery did it after reading the court documents on other potential suspects. Curious as to the lack of alternative suspect theories in the documentary, I looked up court documents from the appeal. It's a rogue's gallery, and while Internet sleuths on sites like Reddit are making a lot of other angles, such as the defense contention that some of Halbach's voicemails were deleted and authorities didn't look closely enough at some of those close to her, the court documents show the defense wanted to point the finger at people around Avery.

Here are summaries of the four alternative suspects raised most thoroughly by the defense. The details are allegations that come directly from court documents, including the appellate decision and a 2009 post-conviction motion filed in court by the defense.

Person 1

According to the defense motion, Person 1 had a violent and volatile personality. His co-workers allegedly described him as a short-tempered angry person capable of murder. He was allegedly described as a chronic liar who blows up at people, "screams a lot" and is a "psycho." He had been previously charged in 1994 with criminal trespass and battery. The criminal complaint alleged he went to a woman's home at 3 a.m. and knocked on her bedroom window. Then he allegedly walked into her home and stated, "You will die for this, b-tch." He then allegedly knocked a man with the woman unconscious.

Three years later, he was charged with recklessly causing bodily harm to another male, as well as disorderly conduct and damage to property. He allegedly swung at a woman, pushed her down basement stairs, pulled her hair and punched an 11-year-old and then damaged property.

In 1998, he was charged with trespass and disorderly conduct for allegedly entering his mother's home without permission. He allegedly shoved her and called her vile names. In 2001, a woman filed a petition for a temporary restraining order against the man, alleging he threatened her repeatedly, spit on her car and pushed his way into her home. In 2001, he allegedly assaulted the woman again, shoving her and punching her. This man had easy access to the salvage yard property, and admitted he was on it twice on the day that Halbach disappeared. His alibi in the case was one of the other people on the alternative suspect list.

He claimed he left the property to go hunting. A co-worker allegedly reported the man approached him to sell a .22 rifle. A .22 rifle was believed to be the murder weapon in the case. A co-worker allegedly stated the man left work on the day Steven Avery was arrested and was a "nervous wreck" and had commented that one of the other people had blood on his clothes and that the clothes had "gotten mixed up with his laundry."

I looked this man up on CCAP, the state's court website. His last criminal case was a conviction in 2002 for disorderly conduct. He was also convicted of the following cases, per CCAP: 1998 of criminal trespass to dwelling; 1997 for disorderly conduct; battery in 1997; and battery in 1995.

Person 2

According to the defense motion, the second person had allegedly "assaulted his former wife and had an aggressive history with women who came to the Avery Salvage Yard." In 1999, this man was charged with sexual assault with use of force for a case involving his then wife. The criminal complaint stated that she also reported he had tried to strangle her with a phone cord and told her that, "If she did not shut up he would end it all." In another criminal complaint filed the same day, she alleged he had violated a domestic abuse injunction, entering her residence without permission, ripping the phone from her hands when she tried to call the police and blocking the door.

The defense motion says that the Sheriff's Department interviewed a woman who had business on the property and who allegedly said the man had started to send her flowers and repeatedly asked her to go on dates, "which she found disturbing." He allegedly sent candy to her home. She allegedly told her co-workers she was afraid of him. Another woman allegedly said she had a similar experience. The defense alleged there was jealousy between this man and Steven Avery.

Avery's girlfriend had allegedly stated that she was afraid of this man because he had allegedly come to Avery's home with a shotgun because he was angry they were dating. She allegedly said she awoke once to find him in her residence.

He was on the property regularly. He had allegedly asked Steven Avery if "the photographer" had come to the yard the day she disappeared, according to another man. He allegedly told law enforcement that he recalled Steven may have left work to "go and meet with a girl to take some pictures." He allegedly had no alibi for the night. He is a hunter with access to guns.

According to CCAP, this man was found guilty in the following cases: violating a domestic abuse injunction in 1999; of bail jumping in 1999; and of disorderly conduct in 1998. He also entered into a deferred prosecution agreement for a third-degree sexual assault charge that resulted in it being dismissed. In 1999, a restraining order was issued against him.

Person 3

According to the defense motion, Person 3 had been charged in 1995 with sexually assaulting two relatives. He was allegedly hunting rabbits with a gun the day Halbach disappeared, had been riding around the property on a golf cart, and had easy and regular access to the property. The defense claimed that a cadaver dog alerted on part of a golf cart on the property. According to the defense, this man allegedly knew Halbach was coming to the property. When police came to take a DNA sample of this man, he allegedly hid in an upstairs bedroom under clothes.

According to CCAP and news reports, this man was later charged criminally with setting up hidden cameras in his house to photograph women (several years after the defense post-conviction motion and well after Avery's conviction). According to a news report from 2012, he was "accused of videotaping people in various stages of nudity" at his home, including a teenage girl and adult women and small children, both boys and girls – including two girls as young as 3. According to a news account, the criminal complaint said he tried to burn the tapes.

According to CCAP, he was convicted of two misdemeanor counts of invading privacy by using a surveillance device. He was sentenced to six months in jail and two years of probation. According to CCAP, he was also previously convicted of battery and fourth degree sexual assault in 1995.

Person 4

According to the defense motion, the final alternative suspect the defense was focusing on allegedly admitted to being on the property at the time Halbach showed up. His alibi was Person 1, as they both stated they saw the other leave the property to go hunting at that time. He allegedly admitted he saw Halbach on the property before he went hunting. He allegedly told police the first person would be able to "verify precisely what time he had seen" him. "He did not explain why that time would be so important" that the first man would remember it so precisely, the motion says. Also, Person 4 allegedly stated he had taken a shower both before and after returning from hunting. "A physical examination of (Person 4) allegedly showed that he had scratches on his back. He told law enforcement that the scratches were from a puppy." A doctor stated it was unlikely they were over a week old. CCAP shows no entries for this man.

The trial judge refused to allow the defense attorneys to present the evidence of other suspects during trial. This was a key argument made by Avery's appellate attorneys, who argued it was unfair and that the case should be overturned on appeal. The state called some of the above people to offer evidence against Avery. The defense argued Avery's attorneys should have been allowed to question whether they were offering it to hide their own possible culpability.

Without viable alternative suspects presented in the documentary narrative, viewers were left to wonder: If Avery didn't do it, why would Halbach's bones have ended up in a burn pit on the salvage yard property where he lived? After all, he was the last known person to see her alive, because she was photographing a van on the property.

Who else could have done it?

Implausibly, none of Halbach's blood or fingerprints was found in Avery's house or garage (where the prosecution claimed she was killed). Her DNA was found on a bullet discovered in the garage months later by a member of the sheriff's agency that had said it'd handed the case over to others (and only after other searchers had not seen it). There were also burnt bones that might have been Halbach's found a ways away from the property in addition to in the burn pit.

The Wisconsin Court of Appeals ruled that the trial judge was right to not allow the alternative suspect theories, using a 1984 case called State v. Denny. The legal terminology is called third-party liability. According to the Court of Appeals, to meet the Denny standard for admittance of such third-party liability, the defense would have had to establish that the alternative suspects had motive, opportunity and a direct connection to the crime.

The court basically found that Avery could show a variety of others had opportunity but did not establish motive or any direct link to the crime by the people above.

"The parties identified by Avery may have had the opportunity to commit the crime; however, Avery was unable to demonstrate that any of the named individuals had a motive to commit the alleged offenses against Halbach," the appeals court said in denying Avery's bid for a new trial.

The court noted that the trial judge had found that, "Avery offered no physical or other evidence connecting any of the individuals to the crime, other than their presence in the general vicinity. One can only imagine how much longer this six-week trial would have lasted had the court granted (Avery's) request to introduce third-party liability evidence … "

And of course, the prosecution alleged it had found physical evidence linking Steven Avery to the crime: his blood in Halbach's car, found on the property; his DNA on Halbach's key, found in his bedroom; and Halbach's DNA found on a bullet in his garage. This is the evidence the defense attacked as planted.

The defense points out that Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department officers found the key and bullet only after repeated searches by others did not turn them up. The officer who found the key had just been deposed in Avery's wrongful conviction civil suit. That agency had supposedly handed the case over to others. They also showed that a vial of Avery's blood from his previous wrongful conviction case was retained as evidence, that the seal on the evidence packet was broken, and that a small hole was pierced in the top of the blood vial.

Frankly, it's hard to see what motive Avery himself had other than perhaps impulsive sexual deviancy. His life was going well at that point in time; he was poised to possibly win a multi-million-dollar civil lawsuit, he had become a cause celebre of Wisconsin politicians and he had a girlfriend.

It's clear the defense wanted to argue someone else on the property at least could have done it, and that the cops – thinking Steven Avery was the guilty party or wanting others to do so – planted the evidence pointing instead at him. Instead, they only got to argue half of that to the jury.

All very curious.

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Tue Jan-05-16 09:23 PM

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141. "wow this thing gets weirder and weirder"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

  

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PROMO
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143. "so #1 is Dassey's mom's husband. #4 is Dassey's brother."
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makaveli
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146. "yep"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

this case just gets more and more ridiculous. that judge is another terrible person.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
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Fri Jan-08-16 01:05 PM

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148. "Gotta hear both sides"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This show is excellent. And its goal is to convince us that Steve Avery was innocent. A really effective documentary can convince you of anything. Someone could have spent 10 years on a documentary from the perspective of the prosecution making Steven Avery look like the devil. It's all about which details you cherry pick and which footage you choose to edit in/out.

Also, try to remember that watching this documentary is not the same as participating in the trial. That jury sat through countless hours of testimony that we never heard, and everyone now knows that there was a lot of incriminating evidence that was totally left out of the documentary...because of course it was.

I won't go so far as to say I think he's guilty. I'm really unsure about that. But I will say that the jury knew WAY more than we do.

I should mention that I was a juror on a high-publicity murder trial several years ago. We convicted the guy. And to this day, there are still blogs and websites and petitions devoted to making a case for why our guy was actually innocent. And as with Making a Murderer, they're passionate and they come from a good place. But they also leave out half of the story. As a jury, we had our reasons. Trust me.

So yeah- the documentary was really well done, and is a scathing indictment of the criminal justice system. There was corruption and misconduct all over the place. And it's tempting to become an armchair attorney after watching something like this. Just remember that it's a one-sided documentary. There was a lot more to this story.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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PROMO
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149. "Nope. Jigga! Kelly! Not Guilty."
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Brew
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Fri Jan-08-16 02:44 PM

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150. "I thought so too and I get what you're saying..."
In response to Reply # 148


          

re: the documentary being slanted, but from what I understand the filmmakers' plan originally was to get both sides speaking their piece about the trial but the prosecution turned them down time after time. Hard not to be slanted when you're only getting one side.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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SoWhat
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153. "Theyre both innocent."
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Damned shame.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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154. "Nah, Steve killed that girl. Then the cops did too much to make sure"
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he would be convicted.

The first travesty was the first conviction of Avery, the second travesty was the young boi getting railroaded.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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SoWhat
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157. "nope."
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

there's 0 credible evidence pointing to Avery's guilt.

i have not seen any evidence that supports a theory of guilt that makes sense.

Avery's DNA on the SUV - if he killed the woman in his garage after having tortured and raped her in his trailer he wouldn't need to use the SUV to move the body to his fire pit behind his trailer to burn the body. and he'd have crushed the SUV in the car crusher in the junkyard on his property.

and if he'd sanitized the crime scene his DNA and deer blood wouldn't have been found in his garage.

there's no credible proof.

sure, he's a violent animal and a dirty, dirty dog. which is why the cops figured they could pin this on him w/tainted evidence.

there's nothing credible that points to his guilt.

nothing.

why?

b/c he's innocent of the charges the prosecution brought.

fuck you.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Fri Jan-15-16 03:17 PM

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155. "You know how I know this was good?"
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Got me to feel sympathy for a white person

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Fri Jan-15-16 09:16 PM

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156. "Meh, gave it a try & started day dreaming then fell asleep"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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