For those unfamiliar with either term....

"Monday Morning Quarterback" = One who criticizes or passes judgment from a position of hindsight.

"Armchair A&R" = Possibly a term with OKP origins...but basically, folks who may or may not have any music industry experience that speaks in detail about decisions/moves they would have made concerning the development of a specific artist.

With that...what are some artists you feel didn't live up to their overall potential, and what would you have done differently?

It could be a Terrence Trent D'arby type, who became relatively big for a short period, but didn't live up to the MJ/Prince tag that some folks may have thought.

It could be a Homeboys Only type group that literally no one knows about, but that you feel had potential to become the next NWA/Geto Boys (at least post a link of their song, though).

You can mention anything...it could be "they should have worked with Pharrell instead of Rodney Jerkins." Or "I wouldn't have let them sign to L.A. Reid, they should have gone independent." Even as detailed as "they should have never pushed as their first single, it gave folks the wrong idea about them from the jump."

I know Double 0 gonna come with some gems for sure, but I just want to see how y'all feel about a lot of artists. I'm especially curious after dealing with some artists this year who are in kind of a "what's gonna happen next" type stage. Even hearing L.A. Reid admit that he messed up by trying to force Future to go commercial/radio makes me wonder.

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Not as a single, not as an internet bootleg. The album was bangin as hell, but that single sucked horribly and didn't represent a single thing about him or the rest of the album. RIP Natina, but man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7--cBpWnJs

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I KNEW THIS WAS THE SONG...

"I wrote her verse"

"she wrote mine.... smh"

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

------------------------------

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I want to listen to it raht nah

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

hearing a song for the first time. Like, I can remember the exact freeway on-ramp I was entering when it came on. When those harpsichords came in........dude. Almost screamed out loud, shit was way too dope

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and yes, on onsite is the bomb.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

Fred Wreck adopted that 2001 style and it was on fire

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...he should've submitted that track for a kid's movie soundtrack. It sounds too kiddy for a regular album; especially with his image.



Since 1976

*
*
*
I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells.

the ultimate.


As a solo artist, never seemed like there was enough "there" for her - even though she had a good amount of appeal.


An all female band with Joi at the top would have been thorough.

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yes

in the 80's

I Miss You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvlhHJNppQg

Meeting in The Ladies Room
https://youtu.be/_odTlZaoLCA

_________________________
"no manure, no magic"

It's understood that he was under Eminem, but this type song should have ONLY been released by Eminem. It didn't fit his persona, and it was much much wacker than "The set up" and "Oh."

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Clearly an Eminem track.



Since 1976

Em shoulda at least had a verse. Nah, fuckit...he shoulda led with 'Oh' and called it a day.

while it was an okay album, it was like they turned their backs on their core fans.

Down south cats should steer clear away from him. Good thing Jeezy did that one Boyz N Da Hood album and bounced.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

old songs from last decade. That shit just didn't work.

Yung Joc worked for a few weeks, though

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You Don't Want Drama and Don't Make. I don't remember nothing past those.

*
*
*
I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells.

fall, 2001:

don't drop a single. just make a cameo in a few rap videos.
make ppl be like, "ain't that MJ?"

maybe do a shoulder pop and snap his fingers.


spring 2002:

sing the HOOK on a few neptunes tracks.
not a full song.

just the hook.
make ppl be like, "oh shit... it's MJ."


summer 2002: drop a single that has the neptunes producing it.

fall 2002: do an MTV unplugged special. no pyrotehnics. no dancing. just a piano, some accoustic guitars, and MJ sitting down, singing on a stool.

spring 2002: release an album. neptunes do production with quincy jones doing oversight. (No, MJ didn't NEED quincy. but let's face it, they both did their best work together, and quincy would tell MJ, "no, do it again." or, "the album is great. release it.)

I felt it made perfect sense in 91-92 to collab with Heavy D. And looking back, it's hilarious that Teddy Riley had some of his Wreckx-n-effects members rapping on MJ's album...that STILL has to be their claim to fame, LMAO.

But with everything else, yeah I think him + Neptunes at the time woulda been !!!!!!!!!! I've honestly never been a huge Darkchild fan, so that move didn't do much for me.

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but if i was his A&R person, we would have had a few drinks
and i would have leveled with him.

assuming we could get him to cooperate, it would have worked.

i mean, it wouldn't be hard to bring him back.
the reaction when he died proved that ppl still loved him.


all he had to do was... be slightly less weird,
slightly more relatable, and hop on a neptunes track.

case though, it was ehhhh

------------------------------

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Justin Timberlakes whole career is just Michael jackson Throwaway tracks....

You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

and those songs were third tier for his skill set. i dig "U don't have to call" however that fit Usher better since while he is good at times and can sing, the cat ain't no real songs though.

those songs were quarter pieces and tombstone pizza worthy

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

just like he improved what teddy riley's stuff for dangerous.

... I almost want to take it back to 'Bad'.

I know now that BAD (the album) is Mike putting his foot down as not just King of Pop, but Emperor of Pop.

my main thing about Mike in that era is visuals.

The Bad album cover is iconic because it's MJ.

But I'm beginning to think the whole image of "Bad" should have been Mike as "Darryl" (in the black and white), not the black leather.

"Leave Me Alone" should have been ON the main album, not a bonus CD cut. It should have also been the "centerpiece" song.

"The Way You Make Me Feel" should have been the "centerpiece" video.

and the song "Speed Demon" should have had a different video altogether.

(As should have "Liberian Girl". That video is bullshit.)

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

>... I almost want to take it back to 'Bad'.
>
>I know now that BAD (the album) is Mike putting his foot down
>as not just King of Pop, but Emperor of Pop.
>
>my main thing about Mike in that era is visuals.
>
>The Bad album cover is iconic because it's MJ.
>
>But I'm beginning to think the whole image of "Bad" should
>have been Mike as "Darryl" (in the black and white), not the
>black leather.
>
>"Leave Me Alone" should have been ON the main album, not a
>bonus CD cut. It should have also been the "centerpiece"
>song.
>
>"The Way You Make Me Feel" should have been the "centerpiece"
>video.
>
>and the song "Speed Demon" should have had a different video
>altogether.
>
>(As should have "Liberian Girl". That video is bullshit.)

I find it a slight bit interesting that it wasn't nearly as big as Thriller, yet it still seems to have confirmed him as the King/Emperor of Pop. Almost saying, "Thriller wasn't all I got!"

Now, did it at all lose his Black crowd? Or was "The way you make me feel" enough to keep them?

------------------------------

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let me be clear though.

not all of us believed he had vitiligo (which is unfortunate, because he did)...

we didn't like his constant nose jobs...

and Mike was clearly out of step with the zeitgeist when he
tried to fight wesley snipes in a leotard with buckles and zippers.
(Hip Hop was clearly the new direction in Black music by the time
Mike released Bad)



but we were ALWAYS rooting for Mike.
even when Butterflies dropped, when I was on the campus of Hampton Univerity, I heard young Black kids bumping butterflies.


the ppl that "abandoned" Mike, for the most part, didn't look like us.

The Blacks didn't ever think that Mike was Bad,
but Mike was always Mike. he was in a class by himself
after Motown 25, and he kept that place in our hearts until the day he died.

Hip Hop was the music of the day,
but we never outgrew Mike.

we fucked with every single except for Blood on the Dancefloor.

and even if you didn't buy the album,
you didn't look sideways at folks bumping Mike.

The Blacks were always with him.


>I find it a slight bit interesting that it wasn't nearly as
>big as Thriller, yet it still seems to have confirmed him as
>the King/Emperor of Pop. Almost saying, "Thriller wasn't all I
>got!"
>
>Now, did it at all lose his Black crowd? Or was "The way you
>make me feel" enough to keep them?

an alternate universe where:

- Mike came out of a 6-year exile after hearing "Control" and the Bad video was "Darryl" (not looking much unlike that infamous "Ebony Future" picture) doing some New Jack Swing. The album was still called "Bad"
- Mike goes into hiding for 6 more years after touring the world. comes out with Dangerous, but "Can't Let Her Get Away" was the lead single before dropping the "Remember The Time" bomb

>but we were ALWAYS rooting for Mike.
>even when Butterflies dropped, when I was on the campus of
>Hampton Univerity, I heard young Black kids bumping
>butterflies.

yes. "Butterflies" (why that song was relegated to an also-ran in the Michael catalog except by his biggest fans is beyond me)... when I heard that on the radio I just KNEW the Pepsi Fire didn't happen and the Mike I remember seeing all over TV and hearing all over car rides was somehow back... in spirit.

>The Blacks didn't ever think that Mike was Bad,
>but Mike was always Mike. he was in a class by himself
>after Motown 25, and he kept that place in our hearts until
>the day he died.

Indeed. I think of the BET Awards. This was Mike at one of his lowest points (IMO). but when he showed up all of a sudden in that really dry James Brown performance... the amount of grown ass people just getting off their feet and jumping with excitement. famous people who could generate something approaching that just by being on a stage. they all showed out for Mike.

that's how you know how Mike was really received.

106 & park was playing on the tv.
people were eating and talking in the caf.

the old skool joint of the day was MJ, "smooth criminal."


the entire cafeteria... i mean everybody...
stopped eating, stopped talking, and watched smooth criminal.

before Mike came on we couldn't even hear the TV.
but it was all silent. somebody turned up the tv.

ppl walking in to the cafetria stopped with their trays in their hands to watch the video standing up.



that is how we felt about Mike

I argue with strong confidence that Invincible could have been insanely good if he takes even some of the songs The Neptunes tried to throw his way. I can never get over how crazy it would’ve been for him to have Like I Love You with Clipse. It would have been a WRAP. Throw in you don’t have to call? Maaaaaan looka here! Imagine him hitting that ‘situaaaaatiiioooons..will ariiiiise!’, CURTAINS!

I’m not even saying he needed to evade Darkchild. Butterflies is all that but he could’ve made an album that would have changed r&b history for the better. I even think it saves his life. I know, that’s crazy. But imagine if he makes an album and it HITS LIKE A TON OF BRICKS, everyone loves the shit out of it, and he gets another real run. And imagine him also doing hooks and videos like you planned for him AFTER the album hits!? Some shit like Kanye somehow getting him on Graduation. I mean really!?

>fall, 2001:
>
>don't drop a single. just make a cameo in a few rap videos.
>make ppl be like, "ain't that MJ?"
>
>maybe do a shoulder pop and snap his fingers.
>
>
>spring 2002:
>
>sing the HOOK on a few neptunes tracks.
>not a full song.
>
>just the hook.
>make ppl be like, "oh shit... it's MJ."
>
>
>summer 2002: drop a single that has the neptunes producing it.
>
>
>fall 2002: do an MTV unplugged special. no pyrotehnics. no
>dancing. just a piano, some accoustic guitars, and MJ sitting
>down, singing on a stool.
>
>spring 2002: release an album. neptunes do production with
>quincy jones doing oversight. (No, MJ didn't NEED quincy. but
>let's face it, they both did their best work together, and
>quincy would tell MJ, "no, do it again." or, "the album is
>great. release it.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

got it, and it helped the build up into Confessions/Yeah, which was basically his peak. But man...people don't all agree, but "You don't have to call" was just much, much better than "You rock my world." I get that some folks feel it may have sounded too much like "MJ lite" and that it even had a fake "Rock with you" vibe, but nah. The 3rd verse/breakdown with MJ killing that? Yeah, I think Invincible would have sold 30% more with just this one track, especially if the video was hot. They could have even used a similar concept to "You rock my world" with Chris Tucker in it

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"Get ready..for your blessing..."

light skinned guys

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I would've loved ALL those Neptunes demos that Usher & JT got to have been recorded by MJ..

shit like Senorita.. man!

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

Woulda been HUGE, and even woulda been a major hit for the Latin world! Basically their "Liberian girl" LOL

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>I would've loved ALL those Neptunes demos that Usher & JT got
>to have been recorded by MJ..
>
>shit like Senorita.. man!


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

and rolled on the floor in laughter

"Yeah — either I toss it, or the artist tosses it. Like, “I’m a Slave 4 U” was made for Janet Jackson. Justin Timberlake’s first album — all those songs, with the exception of “Like I Love You,” were songs I made for Michael Jackson. His manager didn’t like them. Somehow I think Michael didn’t like them either, though. Because when I finally met him, he sang all those songs back to me, and said, “Those songs should have been for me.” And he just laughed. He fell out, just like I have all my life — when something is super funny my knees literally give out, and no matter where it is, I’m on the ground. He just fell on the couch, and he was really tall — six-foot-something. Filled up the whole couch. And he fell, rolled on the floor, kicking like a kid, laughing. But he sang those songs to me and he sang them just like Justin. And then he sang “You Don’t Have to Call” to me, and what was so interesting was all of them had Michael bridges. Like on the bridge of “You Don’t Have to Call,” the way I’d written it, I was trying to capture what Michael had already done with Quincy Jones and Rod Temperton, in the late seventies, early eighties. He sang those songs to me. So he kinda knew, but at the time they just weren’t good enough. But they were songs for him."

http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/pharrell-williams-interview.html

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

That's........................weird as fuck.

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MJ wasn't gonna sing over 'beats'. He always gravitated to something that had some sort of compositional value. When Pharrel says he wrote those bridges for MJ...that just shows he doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to real songwriting. Those bridges were all cookie-cutter changes. I love Pharrell and all...he makes incredible beats. But I know what he's not. I can listen to the first ten seconds of a Pharrell production and KNOW what chord the bridge is going to.

Yea, Butterflies, Heaven can wait, and Til the dawn...but the rest???? You telling me "Senorita" and You don't have to call couldn't get with 2000 Watts? Or the title track, or "Heartbreaker," or "Umbreakable" with the Biggie verse?? Even comparing "You don't have to call" directly to "You rock my world"....definitely a stronger bridge with better chords.

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I think simply....

P & Chad made songs that sounded TOO MJ...

MJ was damn near 40 yrs into a career. He was looking for innovation..

That Rodney Jerkins stuff was super weird..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

inspired by MJ, but was still very modern sounding. Basically had the Soul/changes of MJ's older songs, but was 2001 as hell sonically. Even the BPM of them fit more with modern music than the 115 Disco.

With Rodney, his shit was trendy, but not dope trendy at all. Like when I first heard Aaliyah "Try again" that shit just sounded waaaaay different...futuristic, but dope as hell.

It just reminds me that the year 2000 lead to a LOT of forced futuristic sounding music, solely because "2000" in our minds was so technologically advanced. But listening to most of it now...ha.

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I always remember how I felt when I first heard that song. Really and truly blew my mind - Tim became a legend to me after that song.

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
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I get this as a statement but there's a lot to be said for producers (in this case The Neps) who are heavily inspired by someone and have still created a lane all of their own. I think if the two factions had committed to studio time, they could have come up with better things than what was on 'Justified' and 'U Don't Have to Call'.

-----
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Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
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specifically, because of the work Mike did with Teddy Riley.

Mike wanted something "different".

from what I know of Pharrell, he is capable of avoiding hackery. he just doesn't get a hit without going to that particular well too often (or at all; a lot of the NERD shit comes to mind -- even though it is well beloved by his fans and disciples).

Pharrell and Chad could come from the left field and Mike would have been with it, I think.

but not with that MJ-lite shit he gave Justin.

damn near my favorite posthumous Mike song is "Blue Gangsta" as produced by Timbo. I don't know if Mike would have been completely with it... but damn if that doesn't bang in a way I didn't expect!

Sorry to say but I'm more of a cynic than to think Mike was looking for a new sound - wasn't he working with Rodney jerkins, Akon, Ne-Yo and will.i.am from that point onwards. I always looked at it as he wanted hits, pure and simple. Not to say that Neptunes weren't making hits and in honesty I can't comment on the 'Justified' songs as I don't really know what he thought of them or when he even heard them.

I'd be more on board with the 'Mike wanted something new' theory if he hadn't been working with the biggest pop/R&B artists and producers of that period and had been working with people like, I dunno, Doc McKinney, Madlib, Danger Mouse or James Poyser.

It's interesting you mention Timabaland too: for some reason, his name is so rarely mentioned in reference to MJ but he would have been one of the absolutely top names to have made an MJ album.

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
https://www.mixcloud.com/Blue_in_Green_Sessions/
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I don't think Mike wanted to make Bad 2001. Or 'Still Off The Wall'.

I think he would have been open to whatever gave him a hit, but it had to be a little different than what was "out there" and especially his back catalog.

>It's interesting you mention Timabaland too: for some reason,
>his name is so rarely mentioned in reference to MJ but he
>would have been one of the absolutely top names to have made
>an MJ album.

and yeah. I would have been on-board with it, especially having heard his work for Xscape. I think he would have given Mike that pop-R&B mixture that worked well for him.

I like the Pharrel tracks better too. But it still makes sense to me. 'Heartbreaker' DOES have better changes than any Neptunes tracks. You have a point with '1000 watts'....but I think that's where MJ's love of industrial-type rock music came in. Apparently, he was obsessed with NIN at the time. So some of the tracks on Invincible kinda went in that edgier/angstier, more rock direction. It wasn't what I would've had MJ do....but yah.

makes sense.. from late 80s on he definitely fucked with industrial rock type-ish heavy..

in between all the teddy shit that is

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

what happened to her??
Shining Star is still bangin...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlH86ozV4QA

"Get ready..for your blessing..."

Church in Long Beach.

I kinda agree, I mean....she got in through Snoop, so just like most artists who come in through a Rapper, their sound is more based on them. "Shining star" was produced by Battlecat's understudy, and while they had a great sound for upbeat R&B tracks, just like Quik did, it wasn't enough to even give her a "Kay-Gee set" hit. The "Kay-Gee set" includes Ideal "Whatever," Next "Wifey" and "Too close," Koffee Brown "After party" and all those songs. I think she could have been great in that lane.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzIfcpNqVSw

that's some Aretha status soul right there ^^^^

"Get ready..for your blessing..."

take anything from Snoop's camp seriously. But yeaaa man, I remember this....it was STRAIGHT up outta Church.

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more!

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That whole tape was dope
I alchemist dj scratch hi tek all provided heat

Brother soopafly on the keys....he plays so beautiful Don't you agree

_____________________________

<----- Genesis is deep my features are that of a God


http://illeskobar.deviantart.com/
http://thisiskyleskorner.blogspot.com/

"Every time we make love it feels soo good!"

Lord knows that's my shit!

*
*
*
I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells.

don't try it.
don't criticize it.

you're prince.

do you.

That song coulda legit been a family reunion jam

------------------------------

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**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

https://twitter.com/dj_RTistic/status/647170870146805760

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>don't try it.
>don't criticize it.
>
>you're prince.
>
>do you.

"Dead On It" was as far as it ever should have gone.

Prince should have been gone more "rock" in the '90s, IMO.
an occasional "Gett Off".

Still love that one. That rap bridge was/is cringeworthy though

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

Hopefully it woulda stopped him from bein a "rock star".

Also, Gucci Mane is the best A&R of the south but no one will give him
his credit. He broke everyone from Nikki & French to Pee Wee Longway and Thugga.

Not to go off topic but international players is one of the most, if not thee most
important song for the south but that's another post.

Dr. Dre (all those years Rakim was in LA signed to Aftermath).


I know Large Professor had problems with Eric B due to the "Let the Rhythm Hit 'em" album, but Eric B was out of the picture by the time Rakim was wasting years with Dr. Dre.

And Rakim hadn't truly been relevant (damn I hate that word) since the 80's, so I definitely understood the move. Plus, Dre had a dark enough sound that would have worked at the time...he wasn't gonna have him on poppy tracks or bouncy Southern beats.

It's the business side that didn't work, and then I heard they still had major creative differences when making the album. Now, musically, yeah he would have made a much better album with Large Pro, or even Hi-Tek/Dilla/Premo who were all primin at the time.

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It seemed more a name for name thing, as the sound, style and sensibility of the two never seemed to match

As a huge fan of Large Pro (RIP Paul C), this could have been very interesting. Heads would have loved it, but it probably wouldn't have sold

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
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Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...