More of a rhetorical qn for me, really
I'm moving on saturday so yes I'm gonna be an employer
16 bucks an hour
Just curious on your thoughts on this

Poll result (12 votes) No, they are... (1 votes) Vote Yes, because (10 votes) Vote I'm with trump (1 votes) Vote They taking away our jobs (0 votes) Vote

if i'm moving or getting house-related stuff done or getting work on my car done, i'll hire whoever is available that can get the job done right.

now, if you switched it up and i owned a small business that was official and not just a hustle, i'd be less likely to do it. because at that point my stuff is on paper and legit and i wouldn't want to mess that up with any shenanigans...

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

fuck you.

the whole point of paying an undocumented worker is to get a better rate.

defeats the whole purpose. might as well hire an American to do that shit.

I hired a Mexican to look at my roof, he was a friend of a co-worker. The fuck I look like trying to overpay for some shit.

I'm looking for deals... we both getting over so no harm no foul.

if they want documented rates get documents.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I have a cleaning lady who comes by twice a month. I have never asked her about her immigration status, nor do I give a fuck. She spends 5 hours cleaning my house (3 floors) top to bottom, exceptionally well. Baseboards, under the couch...all that shit. She asks for $100. That comes to $20/hr. You know what, that's what an adult deserves to make for doing physical labor that I don't want to do.

smh. your morals are all f'd up fam

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

while doing the same service when you were searching for a cleaner you wouldn't entertain the idea?

I call bullshit bruh..

cause $20 an hour for a cleaning service is still a great fucking deal. Most places charge $25 to 40 an hour

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

She also babysits my children. My children like her. If she raised her rate, I would keep her.

but before you met her.. if someone offered to do the same shit for $15 an hour and even threw in a bonus you would definitely entertain it.

y'all Niggas ain't out in these streets refusing to pay sale price on shit.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

If someone had equal recommendation at $15/hr, I would chose the cheaper option, but immigration status would not inform my decision. And I would not go cheaper than that because I wouldn't trust it.

who she pays 200 a month or whatever she can...

no fucking way, that ain't a nanny, thats her cousins friend.

but yeah, I'm going to pay the lowest number possible that doesnt make me feel like they would rob me or burn my house down.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

You would voluntarily charge yourself more?

You either rich or ain't got nothing.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

fuck you.

immigrants.

Like when you go to buy a coffee and the dude says its only $1, do you tell him the Dunkin Donuts charges $2?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

i'll use JF's housekeeper example.

she gets paid $20/hr. that sounds fair.

if i knew that's the going rate but i had a worker who would work for $4/hr i would pay them $20 for 5 hours of work but then tip them $80.

kinda like when i go to a bar and order a $5 drink and the bartender gives it to me for free i leave a $5 tip.

fuck you.

you know what to pay her if she only want $5? Like are you googling average housekeeper and wage and basing off that. Doing surveys?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

but when you apply it to every day scenarios it makes no damn sense.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

like no, i wanna pay you more!!!!!!

>but when you apply it to every day scenarios it makes no damn
>sense.
>
>

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

in my actual life i haven't knowingly hired any undocumented workers.

my housekeeper is an older Black lady - i'm pretty sure she's got papers. i use a service and pay what they charge plus a tip.

if i did hire a worker who's here w/o papers and they demanded a fee that felt too low i would do some research. and yes i would pay them the fair wage once i figured out that wage.

i'll be as cynical as you want and say that i'd pay them the fair wage so if/when i get pinched for hiring an undocumented worker i'd use that fair payment as mitigation during plea negotiation or at sentencing. also if i'm hauled before the US Senate after having been nominated for some cabinet position appointment or a federal judgeship i could use the fair wage payment as mitigation.

fuck you.

an undocumented worker to clean your crib or do other household stuff? Or is it like jaywalking?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

by paying them a fair wage i hope to limit my criminal liability for exploiting them.

http://www.ice.gov/worksite/

Targeting Abusive or Exploitative Employers

Worksite enforcement investigations often involve egregious violations of criminal statutes by employers and widespread abuses. Such cases often involve additional violations such as alien smuggling, alien harboring, document fraud, money laundering, fraud or worker exploitation. ICE also investigates employers who employ force, threats or coercion (for example, threatening to have employees deported) in order to keep the unauthorized alien workers from reporting substandard wage or working conditions.

By uncovering such violations, ICE can send a strong deterrent message to other employers who knowingly employ illegal aliens.

fuck you.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

that's why i said i'd have to do some research.

when i chose my cleaning service i was comfortable w/their pricing in part b/c the company's website has so many disclaimers about treating workers fairly and not using undocumented workers and all of that. that means the employees have some agency - if they're mistreated by the service they can complain to various gov't agencies charged w/monitoring work environments.

fuck you.

The rates I was offered were 14 to 16 am hour
Why wouldn't I pay 16?
The struggle is real

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

the higher rates that other people are charging?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

16$ an hour to me seems fair
Knowing that their status precludes them from charging a fair rate
Means I am more aware of the need to
Especially because they have to pay for health care rts that would be covered if they worked for a company
Its kinda like the reason consultancy pays more_ because the company has associated savings
But generally?
Yes. If I feel someone deserves to be paid more than what they ask for, I do so
Ive done that several times when im hiring
And definitely take cost of living into consideration

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

not working for a company?

bc how do you even know that they don't have papers? I can't imagine you ask them.

And i guess i don't understand where you draw the line. Like if you go to mickey d's and you know that they get paid minimum wage, are you sliding them an extra couple of dollars? This is so confusing. Like legs said, its unamerican lol

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

I'm using a non profit that finds jobs for undocumented workers
So yes, I'm taking into consideration the fact that they are not in a position to negotiate a wage,
That's the key issue here for me
It's also a reason I always fairly tip,
I was a waitress who only earned tips (many reasons I won't go into here)
So I do know how much of a difference it makes.
I don't knOw if I'm drawings lines per se
Whenever I travel I also make sure im cognizant of how much I'm paying/ tipping


not working for a company?
>
>bc how do you even know that they don't have papers? I can't
>imagine you ask them.
>
>And i guess i don't understand where you draw the line. Like
>if you go to mickey d's and you know that they get paid
>minimum wage, are you sliding them an extra couple of dollars?
>This is so confusing. Like legs said, its unamerican lol

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

i've hired plenty of workers to do household stuff for me. I don't know for certain, but some of them i'm sure were undocumented. They told me how much it cost and i paid them and tipped accordingly.

If we're talking odd jobs and side jobs how is their hustle different from a documented person hustling?

i'm not being confrontational, i really don't know.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Most times this may be the only job they have lined up for a while
And this had to meet their needs and whoever else they may be supporting
Its much harder to negotiate if this is ones circumstance
And there is also the worry of immigration

i've hired plenty of workers to do household stuff for me. I
>don't know for certain, but some of them i'm sure were
>undocumented. They told me how much it cost and i paid them
>and tipped accordingly.
>
>If we're talking odd jobs and side jobs how is their hustle
>different from a documented person hustling?
>
>i'm not being confrontational, i really don't know.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Why do you think it'd be easier for someone with no papers?
You think unemployed or underemployed people don't want jobs?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

these immigrants know the game and play it well.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Then pay him the same low wage an undocumented worker would do it for.

Then use words like "boy" after I give him directions on how I want it done.

And sip my Mint Julep in the shade while dressed like Colonel Sanders talking about how its hard to find good help these days.


At least that's how I pictured it in my head. Prob just get some people in front of home depot to do it for me on the low though. Don't have time to go looking for poor white folks.

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
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-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

to fill out tax paperwork? Do the workers not have one. if so, no. I'm not going to go out of my way to forge tax paperwork. I'm also not going to go out of my way to prove they're a fraud if they have a social or are able to fill out the necessary paperwork.

No, I'm not paying them full wages because fuck that. I'd stick with the current system because everyone benefits. The only people mad at others for putting food on their tables are souless flaming racist pieces of shit.

In this role I am not a legislator so pushing legislation is out of the question. Besides, I can't rock the boat without dramatically effecting the situation for everyone else i.e. if one person does it then everyone has to do it and politicians/new networks will hurt my business.

Current system is decent for business owners and immigrants alike. Immigrants eat and put food on their table while business owners stay rich. Just so we clear everyone on this board would charge dramatically higher prices to do the same jobs as immigrants.

the status quo involves exploitation of undocumented workers. if you're going to participate in the 'status quo' then you're participating in the exploitation of undocumented workers.

'exploitation' means you would take advantage of their vulnerable situation. like you'd pay them less than they'd receive if they were documented workers. or maybe you'd ignore various laws set up to protect workers' health and safety. b/c these workers are undocumented and fear contacting authorities b/c they don't want to face a federal charge for being here w/o papers (w/o regard for whether they'd actually face such a charge for complaining that their employer is mistreating them).

so yeah...'exploit' is the right word. unless you mean you wouldn't exploit an undocumented worker.

fuck you.

a first year lawyer should make what a partner makes because they are both lawyers...

stop exploiting the lawyer who didn't pass the bar, it's just a document.,pay him the same rate...


nah... get documented so you can make that documented money or hustle until you do making whatever you are willing to work for. Undocumented workers have the right to say no to a job.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

it's okay. you're pretty dim.

fuck you.

You are the one acting like documented and undocumented are the dame thing..

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

But generally,
I wouldn't work for a company that underpays me
Because they felt they could
that sheisty shit is a first sign that they are a shitty employer
Ive had instances where an employer has tried to offer me a 'local' rate for a job that's half of what they'd offer another international staff
Based on some stupid rationale
Fuck and no
I don't believe in exploitation
And it's not as easy as ' get documented'



a first year lawyer should make what a partner makes because
>they are both lawyers...
>
>stop exploiting the lawyer who didn't pass the bar, it's just
>a document.,pay him the same rate...
>
>
>nah... get documented so you can make that documented money or
>hustle until you do making whatever you are willing to work
>for. Undocumented workers have the right to say no to a job.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

My point is there is a difference...

Yiu dont grt the same pay rate because documents arent easy to get. There is a wage for undocumented workers and they are free to negotiate for more or find anither gig that pays what they feel they are worth...

However, there is no fucking way you are going to get paid the same as a documented worker in most places...

Try going to Switzerland, Norway, France, etc without the proper papers and getting paid good money. Yall make it sound like America really is some magical place where you show up and get PAID.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Not as hard as some unskilled labour
But that's,appropos to nothing in this conversation really.

Why are you acting like documents are easy to get?
They are not. If they were, there wouldn't be illegal immigrants
They'd all be documented
And because they don't have documents, getting a job isn't as easy as walking to the next gig
I don't know what alternate world you are talking about
But you sound like you know very little about immigration in the u.s.


I don't know immigration policies in the countries you mention
But what does that have to do with doing the decent thing and paying a fair wage?
Equal pay for equal work and all that?

>My point is there is a difference...
>
>Yiu dont grt the same pay rate because documents arent easy to
>get. There is a wage for undocumented workers and they are
>free to negotiate for more or find anither gig that pays what
>they feel they are worth...
>
>However, there is no fucking way you are going to get paid the
>same as a documented worker in most places...
>
>Try going to Switzerland, Norway, France, etc without the
>proper papers and getting paid good money. Yall make it sound
>like America really is some magical place where you show up
>and get PAID.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

it's the whole reason undocumented workers are paid less.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Who like to take advantage of the less fortunate




>it's the whole reason undocumented workers are paid less.
>
>

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

unless a pimp/underage sex/sex trade is involved.

Certainly if the lady was charging $5 an hour she wouldn't get into my crib bc i feel like its a hustle lol, but i don't think paying $15 an hour is exploitation if the going rate is $20. If she is setting the price, her documentation status is irrelevant imo. Is my reasoning faulty?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

then yes i'm taking advantage of them if i pay them an unfair wage. i'm taking advantage of their ignorance at the least. it might not land me in jail but i wouldn't be able to live w/myself.

fuck you.

to set their prices lower to make their services more desirable lol. Especially if we add in a situation with a language/communication barrier for example.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

i'd still pay them at least $100 for 5 hrs work.

*shrug*

fuck you.

best deal...whether its housework, event tickets, buying clothes, a house, car etc.

I guess if have knowledge that someone is charging significantly less bc of their undocumented status or general lack of knowledge, sure i get the exploit angle. But if someone undocumented is charging a bit less than the competition although the work is comparable, I don't see exploitation at all.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

fuck you.

That best deal may be their only income for the week
Sure it's 61 pesos to the dollar but they are living in the dollar economy and most likely supporting others
I don't think it's as simple as 'best deal' for someone in this situation

best deal...whether its housework, event tickets, buying
>clothes, a house, car etc.
>
>I guess if have knowledge that someone is charging
>significantly less bc of their undocumented status or general
>lack of knowledge, sure i get the exploit angle. But if
>someone undocumented is charging a bit less than the
>competition although the work is comparable, I don't see
>exploitation at all.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

By paying whoever $5 extra an hour i may not be able to do something i want/need to do for my family.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

it implies you aren't paying them or taking advantage of them.

they didn't get the proper papers, they aren't licensed, they don't have to worry about being sued...

both parties are exploiting the situation and profiting from it..

if one isn't profiting they can walk away.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

if they were documented and you paid them $20/hr most likely you are paying them on the books, and they are paying taxes.

if they are undocumented, wouldn't the $15/hr be on the same level as the $20/hr to the documented? because you are paying cash under the table, and they aren't paying taxes.

This seems pretty even to me.

But i completely agree with you, I wouldn't pay less to an undocumented as i would a documented.

HOWEVER if a person says "yo can you just pay me under the table" documented or not, I'd rather pay them lower than the going rate because we are both coming up in this situation (but I see your point about the senate). But I would still pay a fair reasonable rate.

I wouldn't pay less than $5 the going rate. but if I pay you cash, under the table, I do think what I pay should be less than the standard.

>the status quo involves exploitation of undocumented workers.
> if you're going to participate in the 'status quo' then
>you're participating in the exploitation of undocumented
>workers.
>
>'exploitation' means you would take advantage of their
>vulnerable situation. like you'd pay them less than they'd
>receive if they were documented workers. or maybe you'd
>ignore various laws set up to protect workers' health and
>safety. b/c these workers are undocumented and fear
>contacting authorities b/c they don't want to face a federal
>charge for being here w/o papers (w/o regard for whether
>they'd actually face such a charge for complaining that their
>employer is mistreating them).
>
>so yeah...'exploit' is the right word. unless you mean you
>wouldn't exploit an undocumented worker.

I'm not exploiting shit and you act like this situation is not mutually beneficial. They're trying to provide for their families and work. Just because a business owner does not pay them official Federally required wages does not mean they are exploited. Business owner profits as wage costs are dramatically decreased. Workers profit because they get to feed their family with higher wages than back home. That's another point that you fail to mention if the wages are higher than their currency back home for the same job then how are they being exploited?

I looked up the currency exchange. It's 61 cent for 1 Mexican peso. That's not exactly a huge chasm between figures. Paying some $7 instead of $9 an hour isn't exactly rampant exploitation. How much would you charge to do these jobs? Personally, I'm not getting my hands dirty for less than $25 an hour. In other words, these are jobs that the vast majority of us would avoid if we have other options.

fuck you.

if they think the job pay is too low they are free to find you and let you overpay for their services.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

are at risk as the employer correct? Shouldn't they be getting paid less?

I'm talking if you have a 'legit' business like a restaurant or cleaning business or something.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Most undocumented workers are working on false docs, meaning they're paying taxes and not actually benefiting. If we're talking about paying someone to work under the table, what difference does their immigration status make? None of them are paying taxes.

taxes.

I agree though that documented status should mean nothing. If someone is gonna charge me $5 to clean my crib and its comparable to someone charging more...i'd pay them the $5 and their immigration status would be completely irrelevant.

If i had a legit business, then I'd obviously have more to consider. I'd have to know what the legal ramifications are on my end. But I would pay them the same rate I paid my other staff in that instance. I'm looking to keep morale up and have a happy staff so I set the rate, not the employee.

But for household stuff, in my mind the benefit of hiring an undocumented worker off the street is the same as hiring anybody off the street. They aren't associated with a company so their fees should be less but also if there is an issue with their work i'm stuck. Based on that, they should be paid less than someone who is affiliated with a company assuming that their work isn't exceptionally better than the guy that is employed by a company.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

If there wasn't such supply of unskilled illegals, then minorities here could earn those wages and move up.

There shouldn't be such a demand for these illegals.

for somebody to come by and offer them an opportunity to make some bread.

and 9 times outta 10, they're not black

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

So there's little reason to believe the se workers are taking anyones job

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

>More of a rhetorical qn for me, really
>I'm moving on saturday so yes I'm gonna be an employer
>16 bucks an hour
>Just curious on your thoughts on this


YOU BETTER GET TO HOME DEPOT EARLY IN THE MORNING SON!

One of my best friends from back in the day has a landscaping business and dude would up shit creek with legal workers. He takes care of his guys (pays a relatively good wage, fronts them, knows their families and shit, lets stuff slide) but for sure he is paying them less than half what a U.S. worker would make and they do a helluva job for the money, too.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

My mom was one


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Mowing lawns, moving furniture, cleaning a house or a small project that doesn't require extensive work, then probably.

When it comes to extensive work, especially on a home or car, then I would go to a documented specialist or contractor.

Would I pay an undocumented worker the same rate as a documented worker..depending on the project, maybe or maybe not. I do want a deal, but I also want whatever is needed to be done right and prefer some sort of warranty.

if we talking about moving

I'm not trying to get caught up in all that legal mess. Why put myself at risk?

For random work, sure. And I'll shop around for the best rate and pay them exactly what they ask for.

_______________________________________

older guys

im so glad i went this route- because i thought i had few things to move
and it ended up being an almost all day task
(including help from two other friends - who hate me right now cause
we all had to walk up and down four flights of stairs
where im moving to there is no escalator)

im never moving again ever unless i can afford packers and movers

these guys were great!

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

I've gone to Home Depot a few times and picked up a day laborer or two. I have encouraged my wife's family to do the same. They were blown away at how good their work was.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!