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Subject: "Can I really take a 3 month course in coding and make $100k? (NYT swipe)" Previous topic | Next topic
shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
4465 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 11:21 AM

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"Can I really take a 3 month course in coding and make $100k? (NYT swipe)"


  

          

I don't know how things work, so tell me what's really real here.

But I am def looking for a career change--from broke to not broke.

------
As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change
By STEVE LOHRJULY 28, 2015

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/technology/code-academy-as-career-game-changer.html?_r=0

SAN FRANCISCO — After Paul Minton graduated from college, he worked as a waiter, but always felt he should do more.

So Mr. Minton, a 26-year-old math major, took a three-month course in computer programming and data analysis. As a waiter, he made $20,000 a year. His starting salary last year as a data scientist at a web start-up here was more than $100,000.

“Six figures, right off the bat,” Mr. Minton said. “To me, it was astonishing.”

Stories like his are increasingly familiar these days as people across a spectrum of jobs — poker players, bookkeepers, baristas — are shedding their past for a future in the booming tech industry. The money sloshing around in technology is cascading beyond investors and entrepreneurs into the broader digital work force, especially to those who can write modern code, the language of the digital world.

Continue reading the main story
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Students at Dev Bootcamp in San Francisco, one of the dozens of schools that have sprung up nationwide to teach computer code.Web-Era Trade Schools, Feeding a Need for CodeOCT. 13, 2014
Internet giants like Google and Facebook have long fought over the top software engineers in the country, and that continues. But now, companies in most every industry, either by necessity or to follow the pack, are pursuing some sort of digital game plan — creating lucrative opportunities for computing-minded newcomers who, like Mr. Minton, want to reboot their lives.

Photo

A data science class at Galvanize, a San Francisco coding school, led by Asim Jalis, third from left. Credit Max Whittaker for The New York Times
“These are skilled and ambitious people who are seeking an on-ramp to the tech industry,” said Jim Deters, chief executive of Galvanize, the school that Mr. Minton attended.

Whether the on-ramp proves to be a lasting pathway to high pay and stimulating work remains to be seen. The boom-to-bust cycles in the tech business can be wrenching, like the last downturn in the early 2000s after the dot-com bubble burst. Nearly everyone in the industry was hit. Yet software development and engineering jobs held up better than ones in finance, marketing, sales and administration.

For now, at least, it is a seller’s market for those who can master new technology tools for lowering a business’s costs, reaching its customers and automating decision-making — notably, cloud computing, mobile apps and data analytics.

Companies cannot hire fast enough. Glassdoor, an employment site, lists more than 7,300 openings for software engineers, ahead of job openings for nurses, who are chronically in short supply. For the smaller category of data scientists, there are more than 1,200 job openings. Demand is highest in San Francisco. Nationally, the average base salary for software engineers is $100,000, and $112,000 for data scientists.

In March, the White House announced an initiative, TechHire, to coordinate the efforts of the federal government, cities, corporations and schools to train workers for the thousands of current job openings in the tech sector. The Obama administration points to coding schools like Galvanize, Flatiron and Hack Reactor, which offer accelerated training in digital skills as a way to “rapidly train workers for a well-paying job.”

The graduating classes of these coding schools support the trend. They will graduate about 16,000 students this year, more than double the 6,740 graduates last year, according to a survey published by Course Report in June. The 2015 total would be about one-third of the estimated number of computer science graduates from American universities. The largest concentration of the schools, often called boot camps, is in San Francisco, which has 12, followed by New York, with nine, and Seattle, eight.


Students are of a wide age range, but most are in their 20s and 30s. The typical student is a “29-year-old career changer,” said Liz Eggleston, co-founder of Course Report, which tracks these schools.

Past shifts and surges in the information technology industry — the early Internet boom in the 1990s, the personal computer revolution in the 1970s and 1980s, and the minicomputer and mainframe eras before — have often opened doors to job seekers of diverse backgrounds.

Lois Haibt was a freshly minted graduate of Vassar College when she was hired by IBM to join the original team that created Fortran, a pioneering programming language. Recalling the hiring practices of the late 1950s and 1960s, she said, “They took anyone who seemed to have an aptitude for problem-solving skills — bridge players, chess players, even women.”

Photo
“The good jobs were all in computer science,” said Savannah Worth, an English major in college. After a 24-week web programming class, she now works as a software developer. Credit Matt Edge for The New York Times
One sure way to fill job openings in technology these days would be to attract more women. Only 18 percent of computer science graduates at four-year universities were women in 2013, the most recent statistic. By contrast, 35 percent of students at the specialized coding schools are women.

Savannah Worth majored in English and graduated last year from Colorado College. Jobs that might use her skills, she says, seem limited to writing marketing materials or blog posts for websites. “The good jobs were all in computer science,” she recalled.

In college, she had dismissed computer programming as all math and numbers, and not a creative pursuit. But she dropped into an open house one evening at the Galvanize school in Denver. She found it filled with creative, smart people — and not at all just dry math.

Ms. Worth, 22, signed up for the Galvanize 24-week web programming class and excelled. Shortly after completing the course, she was hired by IBM as a software developer in San Francisco. She helps IBM’s corporate clients design and build web and mobile applications that run in remote cloud data centers, and she earns a six-figure salary.

Galvanize’s 24-week web programming course is one of the largest among the coding schools. The average class length among the schools is just under 11 weeks, and costs $11,000. Galvanize’s web programming course is also among the most expensive, at $21,000. The company offers scholarships and deferred payment plans, and has partnerships with online lenders like LendLayer and Earnest.

The job placement rate for Galvanize students is 98 percent. “Graduation here is you get a job,” Mr. Deters said.

Employers are recruiting for immediate needs, but with the future in mind. “What we hire for is the ability to learn,” said Rachel Reinitz, an IBM distinguished engineer, who is Ms. Worth’s boss. “The technology changes so fast.”

Galvanize is selective, accepting about 20 percent of applicants. The vast majority are college graduates, but there are exceptions, like Reyna DeLoge. She grew up in northwestern Montana in a working-class family and logged long hours in part-time jobs throughout high school. She went to Montana State University, but dropped out after a year, uninspired and in debt.

Ms. DeLoge, 24, worked for years mostly as a barista and assistant manager. She moved to Denver, and a year ago, got a job at the coffee shop in the Galvanize building there. She found the environs, bustling with aspiring coders and fledgling start-ups, appealing. She applied to the web-programming course and was accepted.

To help pay for the course, Ms. DeLoge got a $5,000 scholarship and a no-interest loan from Galvanize. She graduated last month, immediately received a few job offers and decided to take one from Galvanize, as a teaching assistant and mentor to new students. In the past, Ms. DeLoge never made as much as $30,000 a year. Her salary now is nearly $80,000.

In a stroke, she is making more than her father, an experienced machine-tool operator and instructor. “That blows me away,” said Ms. DeLoge, who sees her new skills as a gateway to opportunity. “Who knows where I’ll be in a year.”


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Real talk...that joint reads like a "Sponsored Article"... i'm suspect
Jul 28th 2015
1
short answer: pretty much.
Jul 28th 2015
2
your Boy as in buddy? or your son?? confused..
Jul 28th 2015
3
buddy.
Jul 28th 2015
4
      that's what's up! Do you think he's padding his salary #'s a lil?
Jul 28th 2015
5
           Nah, I saw the paperwork for his new gig at Capitol One
Jul 28th 2015
7
                which online service are you using to learn?
Jul 28th 2015
9
                     i'm using the same ones he used.
Jul 28th 2015
12
what are these certs and how do i get em?
Jul 28th 2015
39
      see, shows you how much of a noob i am.
Jul 28th 2015
56
Possibly. But coding is NOOOOOT for everyone, at all at all.
Jul 28th 2015
6
I'm gonna need you to use arrays on this calendar
Jul 28th 2015
10
This.
Jul 28th 2015
30
I agree with FluidJ and programming/coding work is just ugh.
Jul 28th 2015
8
every job i've ever had is "ugh" so it'd be no diff in that regard.
Jul 28th 2015
11
Ugh vs "Ughasuodifjdsiofjsiodfjsiodfjiaso" though.
Jul 28th 2015
15
true.
Jul 28th 2015
17
but it's not "this is annoying" or "this is boring "ugh
Jul 28th 2015
20
      hmm...I can appreciate that take on it. especially if you're prone to en...
Jul 28th 2015
23
yeah, when you're working 60 hour weeks...$100K don't really add out rig...
Jul 28th 2015
13
I've been working on adding coding as a service to my clients
Jul 28th 2015
14
exactly what IS "coding" though?? That's what I can't seem to grasp...
Jul 28th 2015
16
^also my question
Jul 28th 2015
18
It's a thousand different languages, but it's always a few that are more
Jul 28th 2015
19
is there a Sesame Street style breakdown of this anywhere?
Jul 28th 2015
22
      Well yea, imagine your company has you coding for 3-4 different sites.
Jul 28th 2015
28
      that's the most clear i've ever seen it broken down. thanks.
Jul 28th 2015
34
      ?
Jul 28th 2015
31
      !! fam...it even SOUNDS like Bert explaining it...lol..thanks
Jul 28th 2015
35
      http://m.imgur.com/a/Zw0OJ
Jul 28th 2015
40
           This is greaaaaaaaaaaaaat. And no wonder I SUCKED at C++
Jul 28th 2015
43
Java Script is a good one to start with
Jul 28th 2015
24
Javascript is TERRIBLE to start with
Jul 28th 2015
36
      What would you recommend then?
Jul 29th 2015
77
*ring*..we saw the fireplace break..and..we saw the fireplace..
Jul 28th 2015
45
This "data science" trend is no joke.
Jul 28th 2015
21
RE: This "data science" trend is no joke.
Jul 28th 2015
32
      Ah, okay, you confused me back.
Jul 28th 2015
42
           RE: Ah, okay, you confused me back.
Jul 28th 2015
44
there's a creativity to coding that people underestimate
Jul 28th 2015
25
This was always my problem too
Jul 30th 2015
88
-- ANYBODY WANNA BE MY ACCOUNTABILITY PARTNER ??? --
Jul 28th 2015
26
If you LOVE math and enjoy coding please learn.
Jul 28th 2015
27
love is a strong word
Jul 28th 2015
29
      what is the highest level math course you have completed?
Jul 28th 2015
38
           I couldnt get pst calculus and Statistics in college
Jul 28th 2015
64
more important questions: how fun and hip is your workplace?
Jul 28th 2015
33
you don't know fun in the workplace until you've worked for Zappos
Jul 28th 2015
41
      But. It's. Las. Veg. Ass.
Jul 28th 2015
47
           exactly...
Jul 28th 2015
58
you can also make 100k doing
Jul 28th 2015
37
Coding ain't the only way to make a 100k in tech.
Jul 28th 2015
46
Also, if you can front it general assembly is really great
Jul 28th 2015
48
^^^^^^^^ me. Soon.
Jul 28th 2015
49
*pumps aveeno on hands
Jul 28th 2015
53
^^^^^^
Jul 28th 2015
51
Alladat
Jul 28th 2015
54
Yesir. I'm a Project Manager on our IT team and it's lovely
Jul 28th 2015
52
What that spreadsheet do?
Jul 28th 2015
55
      hurt mine eyes!
Jul 28th 2015
61
i wanna learn to code but i'm also interested in PM and UX.
Jul 28th 2015
57
Like being a perpetual student? Go into ux
Jul 28th 2015
59
      cool. thanks. learning is what i'm lacking lately.
Jul 28th 2015
60
      Do it!
Jul 28th 2015
62
      and when your UI/UX sucks, you have cats like me to tell you
Jul 28th 2015
65
           you were to do that to me i would bust out a hard NGROPLS face
Jul 28th 2015
66
                if the shit don't work, it just don't work
Jul 29th 2015
73
                     haha, people love to design some shit they think is clever or cutting
Jul 29th 2015
78
                     a couple of weeks ago I lit into the Magento team over this
Jul 29th 2015
79
                     haha edit: also I shot you an inbox
Jul 29th 2015
80
                     thats not ux. thats a clear sign of the absence of a UX process
Jul 30th 2015
94
                     gah! your response bothered me so much I'm replying
Jul 30th 2015
93
add network security to that list
Jul 28th 2015
63
I fall under that "solutions architect"
Jul 29th 2015
71
^this man isnt lying.
Jul 29th 2015
74
Technical Writers too
Jul 29th 2015
75
UX and PMs
Jul 29th 2015
86
I would also like to add
Jul 30th 2015
95
<<< Project turned Product Manager
Jul 30th 2015
97
If this is your passion, I say go for it!!
Jul 28th 2015
50
This is a good post.
Jul 29th 2015
67
Talk to these mofos in 10+ years
Jul 29th 2015
68
meaning what?
Jul 29th 2015
69
      they won't be employed
Jul 29th 2015
70
           not what i was going... but i will be real about it.
Jul 29th 2015
84
           I'm going since 2001 buddy. AND I've worked from home since 2006
Jul 29th 2015
87
thanks
Jul 29th 2015
72
-- ANYBODY WANNA BE MY ACCOUNTABILITY PARTNER ??? --
Jul 29th 2015
76
if you can get to the interview stage anything is possible i guess
Jul 29th 2015
81
here you go...
Jul 29th 2015
82
^^^ good breakdown
Jul 29th 2015
83
thank you for your insight.
Jul 29th 2015
85
there should be a distinction made between HTML markup and coding.
Jul 30th 2015
90
RE: there should be a distinction made between HTML markup and coding.
Jul 30th 2015
91
      css and html aren't even mentioned on this wonderful infographic.
Jul 30th 2015
96
btw, these arent my words
Jul 30th 2015
92
      thanks
Jul 30th 2015
99
I'm hiring
Jul 30th 2015
89
need project managers?
Jul 30th 2015
98
      Eventually, yes
Jul 30th 2015
100

FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44614 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 11:26 AM

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1. "Real talk...that joint reads like a "Sponsored Article"... i'm suspect "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-28-15 11:30 AM by FLUIDJ

  

          

really reeks of the same type of A+ & MS Cert Hype that was going on in the late 90's early 2000's... I bet most of those schools are ran by the same folks that were doing the racket back then.....


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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PROMO
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Tue Jul-28-15 11:29 AM

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2. "short answer: pretty much."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-28-15 11:32 AM by PROMO

  

          

3 months is fast but, yes, it can be done (edit: i didn't realize he went to a school, so i guess 3 months is sort of normal for that)

i'm actually teaching myself right now.

my boy, he spend roughly most of 2014 learning on his own (via free web courses and a few pay ones that aren't too expensive). he then took and passed his certifications.

in November 2014 he started working at Microsoft as a contract employee. his pay would have been rougly 60K/yr. (you don't get paid as much on contract at Microsoft).

this month, he started a permanent position at Capitol One making 95K/yr...and that'll increase pretty quickly after a year or two.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44614 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 11:31 AM

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3. "your Boy as in buddy? or your son?? confused.."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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PROMO
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Tue Jul-28-15 11:35 AM

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4. "buddy."
In response to Reply # 3
Tue Jul-28-15 11:35 AM by PROMO

  

          

before that? he was making $15/hr working as an admin at a local hospital and hating his co-workers with a passion.

i'm proud of the dude and he inspired me.

my job is kew, but it's not too challenging and there's not a TON of growth potential.

i've got a baby on the way and we recently took my wife's brother's two daughters, so money is at a premium right now.

thus, i'm following his path and training myself.

i expect i'll be working in tech in the next 18 months.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44614 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 11:37 AM

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5. "that's what's up! Do you think he's padding his salary #'s a lil?"
In response to Reply # 4
Tue Jul-28-15 11:37 AM by FLUIDJ

  

          

but damn if it ain't an inspiring thing to witness first hand.

I think it's cool that you can still go the self taught route... I hope it stays that way for a minute. Once they make "formal" education a requirement it's a wrap...


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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PROMO
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Tue Jul-28-15 11:42 AM

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7. "Nah, I saw the paperwork for his new gig at Capitol One"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Salary is legit.

>I think it's cool that you can still go the self taught
>route... I hope it stays that way for a minute. Once they make
>"formal" education a requirement it's a wrap...

THIS is why i'm going now. I just started my first online courses last week and i'm enjoying it so far.

it's not even just the money for me. while the possibility of a much higher salary sounds great, i also just need a change in my work life and something that will keep me challenged consistently.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44614 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 11:43 AM

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9. "which online service are you using to learn? "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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PROMO
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Tue Jul-28-15 11:51 AM

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12. "i'm using the same ones he used."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

and i'm taking it slow.

free sites: codecademy.com and freecodecamp.com

pay sites: pluralsight.com, teamtreehouse.com and lynda.com (which i actually don't pay for because you can access it through my local library system).

if anyone reads this and has other sites to recommend, drop the link or hit my inbox.

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 01:40 PM

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39. "what are these certs and how do i get em?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Cuz if you tell me where they at, I will get dem. Believe that lol

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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PROMO
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:40 PM

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56. "see, shows you how much of a noob i am."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

i just talked to him.

no certifications. just his portfolio and github account.

they'll give some technical examinations during the interview.

even *I* thought he had some kind of certification. that's because he told me he took some testing that he failed once then passed a second time. i assumed it was for some kind of actual "license." i guess it wasn't.

maybe those certifications actually exist though, i'm not sure.

he said they're just more interested in what you can do/how you problem solve.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Tue Jul-28-15 11:40 AM

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6. "Possibly. But coding is NOOOOOT for everyone, at all at all."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Some folks literally can't get it. I was the type that understood it after having it reinforced a million times, but it just didn't come natural to me, and that was my damn major.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22256 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 11:44 AM

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10. "I'm gonna need you to use arrays on this calendar "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2729 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 12:58 PM

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30. "This."
In response to Reply # 6


          

And theres a lot more to it than just learning the language.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Tue Jul-28-15 11:42 AM

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8. "I agree with FluidJ and programming/coding work is just ugh. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've heard the horrors stories and have seen some of the issues.
Consistently shifting time lines and work hours.
All nighters are frequent.
Fixing someone else's work that doesn't know what they're doing
Updates updates updates
Searching for bugs
Testing.
Clients
Sales and contracts
Which brings us back to clients
And did I mention updates?

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
4465 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 11:45 AM

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11. "every job i've ever had is "ugh" so it'd be no diff in that regard."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51986 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 12:01 PM

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15. "Ugh vs "Ughasuodifjdsiofjsiodfjsiodfjiaso" though."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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PROMO
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Tue Jul-28-15 12:05 PM

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17. "true."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

i'm interested to see how i deal w/ that when it becomes more challenging.

i mean, if i hate then at least i tried, right? lol.

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
8049 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 12:15 PM

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20. "but it's not "this is annoying" or "this is boring "ugh"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

it's "i can't find this needle in a haystack because some jerk didn't comment his code correctly and now i have to comb through hundreds of lines of code and pull another all-nighter because the deadline is coming up" ugh

knowing how to code isn't going to magically grant you the ability to work independently. you'll still deal with the same bullshit management and bureaucracy as your other jobs. but the hours will likely be longer and the work much harder

and coding isn't for everyone. the guy in the article had a strong math background which eased his transition into coding. if you had trouble with calculus in HS or college coding is likely going to be a bit rough at first. learning the syntax is easy. understanding the logic of nested functions and methods is the tough part

not to imply that you can't do it. you should definitely give it a shot. the absolute worst thing that can happen is that you realize coding isn't for you and you have a better understanding of what goes into computing. or you may well be really good at it

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44614 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 12:29 PM

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23. "hmm...I can appreciate that take on it. especially if you're prone to en..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

mysteries and solving problems....def. would be a good fit it sounds...


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44614 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 11:53 AM

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13. "yeah, when you're working 60 hour weeks...$100K don't really add out rig..."
In response to Reply # 8
Tue Jul-28-15 11:54 AM by FLUIDJ

  

          

ultimately just gotta be aware of what you're jumping into.... out of the fire and into the frying pan?


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue Jul-28-15 11:58 AM

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14. "I've been working on adding coding as a service to my clients"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Been learning more Python, Java, and Ruby 'cause I've seen money walk by 'cause I don't have those skills. Once I feel competent enough I'mma start tapping those clients.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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16. "exactly what IS "coding" though?? That's what I can't seem to grasp..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is it like when people say "I do engineering"?

Is there a particular branch of coding that you focus on? Or do you just have to know all of it??



"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Tue Jul-28-15 12:07 PM

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18. "^also my question"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

i'm a paper lover. i have no idea what any of this shit means.

does it mean i get to make websites look pretty?


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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19. "It's a thousand different languages, but it's always a few that are more"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

relevant at the time. They seem to change every 4-6 years. I know that in 2007, they wanted us to all learn C# type stuff. HTML doesn't pay nearly as much as other types of coding can pay, but you can still find jobs in it. Also, some jobs require 3-4 different languages because each platform will use a different language. They classify SQL/Database work as a different title, normally "Database Analyst (DBA)" but it's not far off from coding.

So nah, you don't have to know it all, but you gotta know whatever they are looking for at the exact time.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Tue Jul-28-15 12:27 PM

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22. "is there a Sesame Street style breakdown of this anywhere? "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I kinda get what you're saying....but i'm thrown off by the "....several different platforms at one time...." angle of it.
What are the platforms? I just assumed this was all centered around making websites and apps. What else are folks doing with it?

"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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28. "Well yea, imagine your company has you coding for 3-4 different sites."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

One using Java, one using XML, one using C#. Or even, you gotta duplicate what's on the Java site and figure out how to re-create it with XML, because the Java limits what they need you to do. I know it's a bit hard to translate, but some positions basically want you to be strong in 1-2, but still be familiar with 2-3 others. So to make it sound like actual verbal languages...they want you to be FLUENT in English and Spanish, but have decent-strong French Skills, and be familiar with Italian and Mandarin.

Each position is different...some might ONLY need you to be fluent in "English," or in English and Spanish.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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34. "that's the most clear i've ever seen it broken down. thanks."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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31. "? "
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBARzKRGLoM


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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35. "!! fam...it even SOUNDS like Bert explaining it...lol..thanks"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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40. "http://m.imgur.com/a/Zw0OJ"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

http://m.imgur.com/a/Zw0OJ

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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43. "This is greaaaaaaaaaaaaat. And no wonder I SUCKED at C++"
In response to Reply # 40
Tue Jul-28-15 02:12 PM by -DJ R-Tistic-

  

          

HATED that shit!!!! Took me three times to pass it!!!!!!!

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Tue Jul-28-15 12:41 PM

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24. "Java Script is a good one to start with"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue Jul-28-15 01:19 PM

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36. "Javascript is TERRIBLE to start with"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

you'll pick up more waaaay bad coding habits with javascript.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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77. "What would you recommend then?"
In response to Reply # 36
Wed Jul-29-15 06:16 PM by gumz

  

          

No snark...I'm really asking

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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rdhull
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45. "*ring*..we saw the fireplace break..and..we saw the fireplace.."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-28-15 12:16 PM

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21. "This "data science" trend is no joke."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Who knows how long it will last, but from what I hear right now and in the foreseeable future there are a lot more jobs than qualified candidates.

Every time I see a flashy car, I stop and think for a few seconds.

Data science isn't just coding, though. To do well with it, you need to know some sophisticated statistics, signal processing, control theory, machine learning, maybe some dynamical systems theory. Basically you need to be a physicist. (Or so I tell myself when I'm daydreaming about cars.)

  

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double 0
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32. "RE: This &quot;data science&quot; trend is no joke."
In response to Reply # 21
Tue Jul-28-15 01:10 PM by double 0

          

Is it though?

As it pertains to my industry and think it is slowly proving it's usefulness..



EDIT: never mind I read that as "is a joke"

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:01 PM

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42. "Ah, okay, you confused me back."
In response to Reply # 32


          


My scare quotes around "data science" might have thrown you.

No, I have (skeptical) respect for it as a field. They certainly work on a lot of interesting problems, and even better, they could be building a culture where real knowledge can overcome corporate fads.

A lot of "science science" people find the name a little funny, though, for its implication that data science uses more data than other sciences, when in fact it often uses quite a bit less. It really should be called data engineering, rather than data science.

Also, considering that the world still doesn't seem to know what it's good for, and that the corporate overlords have no idea what kind of data analysis and inference might actually be possible, or justified, and that the undersupply of workers could lead to an underqualification problem. It feels like there could be a brewing storm of charlatanism, and an eventual backlash.

Or that's what I tell myself when I'm trying to remember why I want to stay in academia.

  

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double 0
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44. "RE: Ah, okay, you confused me back."
In response to Reply # 42
Tue Jul-28-15 02:19 PM by double 0

          

Yea my brother (Just got his PHD) was contemplating private sector vs research (chose the latter)..

He is in data science in a much broader context than I see it used though... he is trying to deal with data sets in context to culture and evolution..

should be interesting..

Re: everything else..

Tons of data is being generated and i'm sure it can be easily manipulated to mean whatever you need it to mean in context...

corporations don't have much peer review so it should be interesting..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Tue Jul-28-15 12:44 PM

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25. "there's a creativity to coding that people underestimate"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i remember taking some Java and C++ courses back in the day...i could follow the assignments just fine and even did well on the tests but if i need to write some shit from scratch i had no clue where to start. At my job now I sometimes have to manipulate existing code but the folks to really create with that shit, those are the real MVPs. their brains work different though.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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88. "This was always my problem too"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

As analytical as I can be not good enough at problem-solving especially from scratch.

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
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Tue Jul-28-15 12:47 PM

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26. "-- ANYBODY WANNA BE MY ACCOUNTABILITY PARTNER ??? --"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-28-15 12:50 PM by 2.tears.in.a.bucket

  

          

i'm tryna get off the help-desk slave ship & get into a higher tax bracket.

i got tutorials & learning materials galore (some paid for, some not) & no self discipline.

& i'm a great guy to know if ur trying to get ur hands on such materials

hit me up.

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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ShinobiShaw
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27. "If you LOVE math and enjoy coding please learn. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We need more minorities and women in that field. However if you find it tedious and you pull your hair out everytime you come across an error dont bother.

There are many fields in the computer world that don't require coding by pay just as decently.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Tue Jul-28-15 12:57 PM

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29. "love is a strong word"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
8049 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 01:36 PM

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38. "what is the highest level math course you have completed?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79554 posts
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64. "I couldnt get pst calculus and Statistics in college"
In response to Reply # 38


          

but it was mainly because both my teachers were Indian with thick accents. I couldnt understand half the shit they were saying.

before those classes I was a B+, A- math student. Those classes beat me down but I was also partying hard in college my freshman year.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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33. "more important questions: how fun and hip is your workplace?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

how much weight have you gained since you started doing this professionally?

if you're a woman or underrepped POC...uhh...how's your mental health?


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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41. "you don't know fun in the workplace until you've worked for Zappos"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

I did some consulting for them years ago. I traveled to their HQ in Vegas twice, both times were fairly awesome experiences. I did all my work for them by remote, but longed for the ability to be there in person.

Shit was like an adult playground, complete with beer and liquor on hand.




.... No, I'm not kidding. That group I worked with kept a stocked bar in their area and the other consultants that were working on site all had bottles of craft beer in their hands while we were going over the implementation plans. I took a rum on the rocks once I got comfortable with it all.

If I were to ever move to Vegas, I'd prolly try to work there.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 02:21 PM

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47. "But. It's. Las. Veg. Ass. "
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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58. "exactly..."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

not really the place you want to raise kids... Though I've known folks that have done just that but still.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

  

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tariqhu
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37. "you can also make 100k doing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

software implementation. basically installation & training for other IT folks. especially if you know MDM software.

it'll take a bit longer than 3 months though


coding is boring as hell to me. don't know that I'm built for it. but I might need to go ahead and dive in since lots of jobs are looking for that skill set.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:17 PM

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46. "Coding ain't the only way to make a 100k in tech. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Speaking from direct experience working in tech.

Project managers
Solutions architects
Ux designers
Interaction designers
Visual designers
Product managers
Researchers

All float just under, at or way above 100k

So many cool things to do besides coding
I get that there is a deficit in talent but coding isn't for everybody

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:28 PM

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48. "Also, if you can front it general assembly is really great"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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jetblack
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:29 PM

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49. "^^^^^^^^ me. Soon."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

*handrubs*

---
Stoicism and chill.
---
Stay +.
---

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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53. "*pumps aveeno on hands"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

http://24.media.tumblr.com/1b05bdd0c98ff6a86e17f2699d04385b/tumblr_mnxh8isWd61s3f6rbo1_500.jpg

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:31 PM

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51. "^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

if you have strong people skills and don't mind being dealing with clients, the SA/PM work is a good route to go. The ceiling is higher than just coding because it involves leading/managing teams which opens you up for a lot more.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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54. "Alladat "
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Lach
Charter member
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:33 PM

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52. "Yesir. I'm a Project Manager on our IT team and it's lovely"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

and I rarely have to go into the office.

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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55. "What that spreadsheet do?"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Lach
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:52 PM

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61. "hurt mine eyes!"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

  

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PROMO
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57. "i wanna learn to code but i'm also interested in PM and UX."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:46 PM

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59. "Like being a perpetual student? Go into ux"
In response to Reply # 57
Tue Jul-28-15 02:48 PM by double negative

  

          

I'm never not learning some new platform, method or tool set because the world keeps on changing. I started with blu Ray but then that died. Then I moved to desktop, Once I got tight with desktop, mobile went big and now that I'm getting stable with mobile the whole internet of things movement is taking off.

This past month I've been tasked with a tablet project so I've been studying that realm lately.

Edit: I actually love learning

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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PROMO
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60. "cool. thanks. learning is what i'm lacking lately."
In response to Reply # 59
Tue Jul-28-15 02:51 PM by PROMO

  

          

like, it's rare i have a day at work where i'm actually challenged.

so, part of this potential move to IT isn't just money motivated...it's actual "motivation" motivated, lol.

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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62. "Do it!"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

And the money is good. I have friend who are seniors who regularly pull 160k plus

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 05:44 PM

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65. "and when your UI/UX sucks, you have cats like me to tell you"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

'cause that's something I do in my spare time... And I'm pretty blunt and probably a bit more vocal about flaws than my colleagues.

Target was actually thankful for being as blunt about how bad the UI for a new part of their mobile site was. Other clients don't take it so well.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
Tue Jul-28-15 06:13 PM

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66. "you were to do that to me i would bust out a hard NGROPLS face"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

only because i would be just frustrated from not being able to get the stakeholders to buy into a new paradigm

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 05:06 PM

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73. "if the shit don't work, it just don't work"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

don't get mad 'cause your new paradigm was convoluted and made shit harder than it needed to be. My job is to point that out so the people that end up using it don't get pissed.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 06:18 PM

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78. "haha, people love to design some shit they think is clever or cutting"
In response to Reply # 73


          

edge, when it really just makes shit difficult for the user. I can't count the number of sites of been on where I couldn't tell what the fuck I was supposed to do to buy their product. You can be smooth and artsy without it fucking up the process.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 06:24 PM

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79. "a couple of weeks ago I lit into the Magento team over this"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>I can't count the number of sites of been on where I couldn't
>tell what the fuck I was supposed to do to buy their product.

I was asked to test out their new menu structure and couldn't figure out where shit was supposed to be.. and I've stood up and integrated Magento for a couple of companies in the past so I know where shit *should* be.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 06:36 PM

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80. "haha edit: also I shot you an inbox "
In response to Reply # 79
Wed Jul-29-15 06:46 PM by J_Stew

          

I had a question for you

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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94. "thats not ux. thats a clear sign of the absence of a UX process"
In response to Reply # 78
Thu Jul-30-15 10:50 AM by double negative

  

          

the UX designer doesnt just "dream up some cool shit just because"

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Thu Jul-30-15 10:48 AM

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93. "gah! your response bothered me so much I'm replying"
In response to Reply # 73
Thu Jul-30-15 10:57 AM by double negative

  

          

my OG response was more about the idea that stakeholders have a different set of desires (keep things under budget, time constraints, or just straight up cant be bothered and want to keep it moving)

if my design is convoluted or harder than it needs to be then i have failed. and those two things are the antithesis of user experience d.

so the frustration that i was talking about is more about having too many cooks in a kitchen where the two sides push back and forth on a concept where upon a new person enters the ring and says "have you considered doing it this way?"
meanwhile, the design team is having a meltdown because we've already proposed the thing or way of doing things the new person brought up.

hence the negro please face because we've already thought about that thing you are going to say. if our job is done then we've eliminated or reduced blindspots


>don't get mad 'cause your new paradigm was convoluted and
>made shit harder than it needed to be. My job is to point that
>out so the people that end up using it don't get pissed.
>
>---------------------------
>
>"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the
>peace when we were getting laid out?
>Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances?
>Where is the peace then?
>They don't want to call for peace then.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
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63. "add network security to that list"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

not the guys in the SOC staring at screens, but the CISSP/CEH certified cats that can build out a security infrastructure from scratch.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14585 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 07:26 AM

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71. "I fall under that "solutions architect" "
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I work from home and make a good amount of money, can't hate that.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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guru0509
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74. "^this man isnt lying. "
In response to Reply # 46


  

          



>Speaking from direct experience working in tech.
>
>Project managers
>Solutions architects
>Ux designers
>Interaction designers
>Visual designers
>Product managers
>Researchers
>
>All float just under, at or way above 100k
>
>So many cool things to do besides coding
>I get that there is a deficit in talent but coding isn't for
>everybody

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 05:30 PM

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75. "Technical Writers too "
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

nice little side job if you can write

  

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13Rose
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86. "UX and PMs"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I respect them. Especially cats that really know their stuff. There's a lot of money out there.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
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95. "I would also like to add"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

QA
Content Strategy
Information Architecture
Scrum Master/Scrum related shit

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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MizClayton
Member since Feb 22nd 2003
33309 posts
Thu Jul-30-15 11:16 AM

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97. "<<< Project turned Product Manager"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

looking for a new gig though

  

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Case_One
Charter member
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Tue Jul-28-15 02:31 PM

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50. "If this is your passion, I say go for it!! "
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

  

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vik
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13505 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 02:17 AM

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67. "This is a good post."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I know folks that have done some of these coding boot camps and gotten gigs. They're starting off at salaries like some of my friends did out of college w BS degrees in CompSci. Not all in either case, but I was impressed by the returns.

At the same time, if you're trying to get tech $$$, you don't have to be a coder. You can make a hundred+ in marketing, sales, customer relations ... it's important to understand the particulars of a coding gig when evaluating if you want to get into it as a career.

Also: it helps to know a little bit of coding if you want to get into tech in general bc you'll at least have an idea of what the engineers are talking about and they respect that, which leads to more opportunities in the organization or industry as a whole. Always good to speak more "languages".

---

But hell, what do I know?

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 06:01 AM

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68. "Talk to these mofos in 10+ years"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
4465 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 06:21 AM

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69. "meaning what?"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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josetheplumber
Member since Nov 12th 2008
300 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 07:01 AM

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70. "they won't be employed"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

or not making what they're making today

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 09:00 PM

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84. "not what i was going... but i will be real about it."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

the first part is actually loving it. sure you can take a three month course and think wow this is a new skill i got. but when you get that first job and have to work under the time constraints with the efficiency that's required to do this shit, that's hen you'll really be tested. when you're up until midnight debugging because nobody gives a shit about it being after hours if the shit ain't working, that's when you'll know. when you realize that despite being the backbone of whatever it is that you're working on there are more than three times as many people not touching a line of code who will get most of the out facing credit, sheeeit. they'll pat you on the back though (it gets even funnier when you realize you make more than a lot of em).

when you've been at a spot that's got one system for two years maybe only to leave and find out you're two years behind everyone else and gotta catch up quick. when you're five or six years in and the spot you're at reorgnaizes or goes under because of nothing that has to do with you and how you work... yup. you'll learn quickly to network though being a dev is probably one of the least networking-able position in the industry (and tends to be the most introverted of the bunch) because only other devs really know what the fuck you do, but if you're smart you won't be the one that keeps to themselves but makes those connections because that's what's gonna keep you employed. shit are you prepared to contract independently for a while. can you build up a client base, because if you end up going the temp route.... sheeeit.

and then ten years in when you've matriculated to high senior level but realize you're at a glass ceiling where the only next step is CTO but.... well will you still love it then. speaking of which at that time that three month training is what's going to keep you out of that CTO job because the comp sci major is your competition.

and that's all above and beyond the fact that despite the rapid growth in the sector the growth in technology in these next ten years will be decreaing the need for devs substantially (don't let anyone tell you different). Oh and its a global market right now, you won't believe how low you'll be under bid. And then you got all the young bucks coming up itching to get in there.

Shit is highly competitive but in a real passive way which goes unsaid and at the end of the day the majority of people aren't cut out for it. Thinking about it as something you can learn in three months is not gonna prepare you for the long haul at all.

I'm not trynig to be all debbie downer and shit, I actually do love this shit, but it takes a certain kind.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Lach
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Wed Jul-29-15 11:19 PM

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87. "I'm going since 2001 buddy. AND I've worked from home since 2006"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

Yes, I haven't had to go into an office on a consistent basis in almost 10 years. These careers aren't flash by night.

  

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Johnny
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72. "thanks"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i looked into this a few years ago but this has peaked my interest once again.

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
6185 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 05:39 PM

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76. "-- ANYBODY WANNA BE MY ACCOUNTABILITY PARTNER ??? --"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


cmon. lets be friends.

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 08:14 PM

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81. "if you can get to the interview stage anything is possible i guess"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-29-15 08:15 PM by southphillyman

  

          

i think this specific 3 month + 100k thing would be heavily dependent on location + skill niche though

like someone said above there are easier avenues to 100K if all you care about is money. being an in demand developer requires a lot more than 3 months of boot camp. probably more like 10k hours of continual learning and self improvement as your career grows.
the majority young(ish) dudes i work with don't really watch tv because they are too busy reading and learning at night

but yea 125k+ ENTRY LEVEL salary isn't unheard of for big companies in high COL areas. with seniors getting double that in total comp.
and 200k+ salaries for experienced dudes isn't unheard of in low(er) COL areas like houston, philly, bmore, etc.

~~~~~~

  

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melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 08:31 PM

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82. "here you go..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Getting started.

1.You dont have to go to school. Nobody cares how you learned, just what you can produce, just like design. You will have to take a test most of the time when applying for jobs in addition to your Github. i have taken test where there was no computer but I had to write it out on a whiteboard, test that ive taken home to complete over night, and test where I log into a site with someone watching me code out a problem on the fly. Ive met a lot of friendly people in the community and be advised that you will be looked at with surprised looks as there are not a lot of us brothers in programming, but I can say that so far I havent been discriminated against. They will be extra curious to know how much you know tho. A simple and important key is your ability to intelligently talk about programming. About trends, techniques, best practices, but most important be humble enough to listen and ask questions about how others peoples methods and workflow. There is no one right way to program but there are plenty of wrong ways. No one likes programming with someone who cant program.

2. Do NOT sit in front of a computer or a book and try to read it from front to back. Nobody know everything about a language and its a waste of time. Its going to come down to learning the important parts that get used all the time and having the basics to begin solving a problem, and then knowing how to google and reference the stuff that you dont know quickly. I found that the easiest way to tackle it is to watch two of the college lectures on youtube about the language you are trying to learn and jot down notes. They are pretty much going through your average programming language books and fishing out the relevant parts for you. Pick up like 3 different books and flip through them. The parts that keep coming up are usually the parts that you need to know. You have to find YOUR way of learning. I usually cant learn much from video tutorials..Books are usually better for me, but is far from actually having someone show you. Most people I know do very well with video tutorials. But once you know the basic syntax of a language you absolutely HAVE to start creating something with it.

3. Knowing what youre doing is only half the battle. Companies dont hire people they dont know. There is usually some relationship associated such as knowing a friend there, or having met you at a networking event and meeting on several occasions. I got my job because the hiring manager had a lot to do with our school and met me on several occasions and my personality was something that would fit into and was needed around the office. Getting a job with a tech company, especially a Startup is like dating. My entire hiring process from first interview to signing the offer was about a month and a half and this seems to be the norm based on the other students that got jobs. Its going to come down to 1. What you know. 2. who you know. and most importantly 3. WHAT THEY KNOW ABOUT YOU. Being good isnt going to get you hired anymore. She bypassed a lot of qualified people to get to me. They want people who can work within a team, because youre around these people for 8-12 hours a day, maybe well into the night. They also look for people with a calm collective attitude. It can get stressful and there is no room for people who cant get passed their own frustrations. As far as your programming abilities. Companies can teach you anything they want.. You have to prove to them they you are the person that can do that for them.



Making a plan for yourself...

You absolutely must make a plan for yourself or you will be as lost as everyone else is out there. There are many different areas that you need to decide what where you want to end up at. But the first should be whether you are actually built for programming because not everyone is. If you get frustrated at solving problem, have a short attention span to finding solutions, then this might not be for you. Do you want to be a UX designer, visual designer, front end developer, backend developer, mobile developer, html email developer? They are similar paths that go in different directions.

If you have a background in graphic design like I did, the easy route would be UX/UI/visual design/product design. The role of graphic designer is really being relabelled as one of these because we have had to progress to learning more code. But the competition is fierce because everyone who was already in the saturated market of graphic design is ending up there. Markup languages are easy to grasp and get good at in a short time, so a lot of people are just stopping there for now. For this role you should have a firm understanding of..,

Software:

Graphic Production:

Adobe Illustrator
Adobe Photoshop
sometimes Indesign

Coding:
HTML5
CSS
JQuery/Javascript.
Twitter Bootstrap/Zurb Foundation

Wireframing:
Basalmiq/Omnigraffe/Invision App

Techniques:
Rapid Prototyping
Use cases
A/B testing
Problem and solution interviewing

In a sense, from a technical standpoint it is easier to get into one of those positions than it is to get into front-end developer position right off the bat if you have the creativity. Front-end developers is really important and typically need a few years of experience in the front end or back-end because they are the connection from Design to Development. Not all front end developers have to be creative, depends on the company you are working for and what they do. But it is part of the front end developers job where as backend devs arent required to have that visual creativity ability.

My selling point for the interview is that all of their front-end developers have a computer science background where i have a solid design background. When work comes down from the design department they move on to something else, changes in design ruin the workflow and the department gets backed up. So instead of backtracking im capable of making the changes and keeping it in the development department. You have to create a selling point of your skills so people see the value in having you around. I let them know that ever since i got involved in coding that Ive felt a need to transition from design into doing more development and have a strong interest in the backend as well. So in addition to the front end software and coding that i have been using for years. As a front-end developer I need to add more javascript possibly PHP, but I know the company is very JAVA heavy as well. Our backend people definitely are doing Ruby, Python, Java and Ruby, but we arent Rails. Where as UX designers need to study human interaction, it is beneficial for developers to learn critical thinking.

Focus on what you want to do with your talent and then compile the languages that will best get you to that point. Its not so much the languages you know more so what you are capable of doing with the language you know.

The most important piece of advice. When putting together your Github, portfolio, and for your interview. The thing that is going to set you apart from everyone is what you are currently working on. Companies are looking for people that have already started a personal project themselves and are currently working on it, if you have gathered 2 or 3 other heads to give you a hand, then this looks great to someone that is hiring. During my interview the CTO and hiring manager were more impressed with the app that I was rapid prototyping myself and the project I was working on with other developers. It is also very important to show your work that was done with other people because code review by peers is also extremely important. You get use to other people understanding your code.

Networking.

The most important part of your job search. As i said before most people in this industry ive come across get their job based on the people they have come into contact with. It is just as important that you go to Meetup.com events, tech parties, pitch events, and hackathons and design sprints to get to know people, as it is to study and become great at a language. If you are in Boston, Chicago, New York, LA, Denver, or Austin,TX, then you have an advantage because those are considered tech hubs with deep and growing tech communities. Here in Chicago we have events hosted by Built in Chicago, Impact engine, Technori, Uncubed, Techstars even businesses from large Startups like Groupon to small coffee shops are hosting their own hackathons every other night and a lot of them are free. Even if you havent started writing a lick of code, its worth it to start going to the events and getting to know people because you might even have a job skill that is needed at the present moment and the fact that you have been studying code would be looked at as an added bonus. Technical marketing and sales are important to tech companies as well, and you might be called upon at any time to help code something or participate in the white boarding for a project so its important to not be turned off by anything and to know something about everything. I didnt know shit about coding but I learned in my design job how my job effects the work flow of the developers, as well as how it effects the marketers so I had to learn a little bit of their job as well.

Dont be afraid to find people at companies that you have an interest in and inviting them out for a cup of coffee to pick their brain. People in this industry have been friendly so far and feel honored to be sought out, and have usually found time to meet with me. But dont waste their time because they are busy. Dont bullshit about what you know. Youll be called out on it. If asked something you dont know, its much easier and respectable to say that you dont know and to express an interest in it and ask questions about it.People in this industry definitely dont like having their time wasted so if someone agrees to meet with you to have coffee.. then have legitimate questions ready to fill at least a half hour.

So far white folks is friendly as fuck and know everything coming down the pipe, Asians are always lookin for a way to show off their knowledge and women are usually thorough about the work they produce cause just like a brother, women have something to prove too, and if you do come across a brother hes probably VERY knowledgeable and capably of explaining things on a level that would effect you directly, so dont get caught up in your prejudices about who is capable of teaching you what in this business.

Dont get caught up in the fanboy computer battle. No one cares about your operating system as long as you can get the work done so dont let yourself think that you cant get started. There are a lot of great tools for Mac though. I was a PC guy for years but have switched to Linux, but ive had to work on all 3 at different times in my life and you shouldnt conform yourself to being able to work on just one system. If you do a considerable amount of design and developement work, then a Mac might be your best choice though.

Some sites that have really helped me.

Twitter. Connect with different companies your area, because a lot of them will post jobs their first cause its free and easy and its easier to find someone who already has an interest in your company.

Smashingmagazine.com They focus on showcasing the latest trends and techniques as they become available.

Angel.co A lot of tech startups post jobs here.

http://pcottle.github.io/learnGitBranching/

has a good interactive tutorial about Github once youve read through the Github Documentation.

A Smarter Way to Learn JavaScript: The new approach that uses technology to cut your effort in half. This book really got me over the hurdle of learning Javascript. I still have a good ways to go but the road blocks are gone...

http://www.professormesser.com/ These are free videos about IT.. but one of the questions i asked the CTO when i went for my interview was "If you were able to teach all your developers from scratch so they were all on the same page, where would you have them start." His answer was "Id teach them how to build a computer so they know the entire industry from the ground of all the way though how the network work and how the internet works through a computer and then lead them into Algorithms and Data Structure. Not saying you have to start with this but knowing the inner workings of a computer and how it gets to your visual interaction is something beneficial to know.

I know this is long and not organized the way Id like, but over the last 6 months ive crammed a lot of useful information into that small amount of time, and ill try to post more stuff about getting into and working in the industry as it becomes available.

So step 1.. Id say google all the different roles of programming and compile a plan of action focusing on exactly what you want to do at the end of your study because there is no need to waste time learning C++ if youre planning on focusing on web technology job.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 08:41 PM

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83. "^^^ good breakdown"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

It'll take more than 3 months for all of what you just wrote to settle in.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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PROMO
Charter member
30953 posts
Wed Jul-29-15 09:27 PM

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85. "thank you for your insight. "
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

i appreciate the inside angle.

  

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Kwesi
Member since Jan 11th 2004
7370 posts
Thu Jul-30-15 09:55 AM

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90. "there should be a distinction made between HTML markup and coding."
In response to Reply # 82


          

this long message didn't touch the real stuff.

css and html is flat compared to the ruby and c+

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22256 posts
Thu Jul-30-15 09:57 AM

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91. "RE: there should be a distinction made between HTML markup and coding."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

http://m.imgur.com/a/Zw0OJ

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Kwesi
Member since Jan 11th 2004
7370 posts
Thu Jul-30-15 10:58 AM

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96. "css and html aren't even mentioned on this wonderful infographic."
In response to Reply # 91


          

  

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melmag
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Thu Jul-30-15 10:31 AM

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92. "btw, these arent my words"
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its from a coding topic on another forum

  

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Kwesi
Member since Jan 11th 2004
7370 posts
Thu Jul-30-15 11:18 AM

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99. "thanks"
In response to Reply # 92


          

for nothing.

  

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Jive Alive
Member since Nov 06th 2004
589 posts
Thu Jul-30-15 09:06 AM

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89. "I'm hiring"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I work at Thought & Expression Co. We run Thought Catalog, Shop Catalog, and are working on Quote Catalog. We have offices in Brooklyn and LA. All the development is coming in house of the course of the next year, so we basically have every kind of dev position open.

Email me about it, doug@thought.is -- or I'm happy to talk about it here.

  

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MizClayton
Member since Feb 22nd 2003
33309 posts
Thu Jul-30-15 11:17 AM

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98. "need project managers?"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

  

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Jive Alive
Member since Nov 06th 2004
589 posts
Thu Jul-30-15 12:47 PM

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100. "Eventually, yes"
In response to Reply # 98


          

I would say that comes after a dev hire or two. Mainly because I'm also a PM, and we need more resources than management at the moment.

  

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