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Subject: "90% of suicides are due to a brain disorder but ppl still call it weak" Previous topic | Next topic
seasoned vet
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Tue Jul-21-15 08:05 PM

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"90% of suicides are due to a brain disorder but ppl still call it weak"


  

          

almost 15 years ago and the 2001 documentary on suicide still resonates with me

http://youtu.be/OC-2yJ9wW0U

i was in my early 20's when i'd seen it, i had no idea about child suicide, or the brain disorder associated with it

i am completely baffled anytime i come across an enlightened individual that goes out of their way to label suicide a selfish act when the information is out there that explains how the 'act' is the result of an uncontrollable brain disorder

to hear people rattle off how weak that person was
or go on about what that person 'could' have done
jesus.



  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Those people don't want to hear it
Jul 21st 2015
1
*double post*
Jul 21st 2015
Very well said...
Jul 21st 2015
2
This right here....
Jul 22nd 2015
5
What was the other 10%?
Jul 21st 2015
3
Even if it was weakness negativity towards it would still be wrong
Jul 22nd 2015
4
So explain the high level of suicides among Young Black Males
Jul 22nd 2015
6
did you watch the video(s)?
Jul 22nd 2015
7
      We have perhaps found exhibit A for post 1
Jul 22nd 2015
8
      seek help, seriously.
Jul 22nd 2015
13
           I generally seek self help and thoughtful 3rd party assistance
Jul 22nd 2015
15
      Does the video cite peer-reviewed research?
Jul 22nd 2015
9
      Right!
Jul 22nd 2015
10
           Oh you love the scientific method now? Sit this one out.
Jul 22nd 2015
18
                FYI, Peer Reviewed Sources don't have to be based on the SM
Jul 22nd 2015
19
      I did watch the video and I read your OP + Subject
Jul 22nd 2015
11
           asking if you watched the video comes off defensive to you?
Jul 22nd 2015
12
                Why did you ask him that?
Jul 22nd 2015
14
                RE: Why did you ask him that?
Jul 22nd 2015
17
                No. I was not offered. I was just say what I did.
Jul 22nd 2015
20
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489848/
Jul 22nd 2015
16

Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
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Tue Jul-21-15 08:30 PM

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1. "Those people don't want to hear it"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-21-15 08:30 PM by Ted Gee Seal

  

          

>almost 15 years ago and the 2001 documentary on suicide still
>resonates with me
>
>http://youtu.be/OC-2yJ9wW0U
>
>i was in my early 20's when i'd seen it, i had no idea about
>child suicide, or the brain disorder associated with it
>
>i am completely baffled anytime i come across an enlightened
>individual that goes out of their way to label suicide a
>selfish act when the information is out there that explains
>how the 'act' is the result of an uncontrollable brain
>disorder
>
>to hear people rattle off how weak that person was
>or go on about what that person 'could' have done
>jesus.
>

I think some of it comes down to them having a time when they were sad and toughed it out. So of course anyone who can't couldn't be inhibited by anything except weakness.

I've tried explain to some of these people that actually, rather than being a selfish mindset, some people convince themselves dying would be the best thing for everyone involved. That's why it's a mental illness, the mind loses its rationality.

Worse is these people not realising or not caring that their attitude isolates those going through depression and makes it worse for those left behind by suicide. If there's anything that's selfish and weak it's taking pot shots at the dead without taking the time to understand the underlying issues.

Just IMO though.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Tue Jul-21-15 09:51 PM

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"*double post*"
Tue Jul-21-15 09:52 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Tue Jul-21-15 09:51 PM

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2. "Very well said..."
In response to Reply # 1


          

>I think some of it comes down to them having a time when they
>were sad and toughed it out. So of course anyone who can't
>couldn't be inhibited by anything except weakness.
>
>I've tried explain to some of these people that actually,
>rather than being a selfish mindset, some people convince
>themselves dying would be the best thing for everyone
>involved. That's why it's a mental illness, the mind loses its
>rationality.



^That is crucial. When a person has convinced themselves that the world would
be better off without themselves, suicide can actually feel like a painful act of bravery.


>Worse is these people not realising or not caring that their
>attitude isolates those going through depression and makes it
>worse for those left behind by suicide. If there's anything
>that's selfish and weak it's taking pot shots at the dead
>without taking the time to understand the underlying issues.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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KnowOne
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Wed Jul-22-15 09:14 AM

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5. "This right here...."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>>some people convince
>themselves dying would be the best thing for everyone
>involved. That's why it's a mental illness, the mind loses its
>rationality.
>

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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Triptych
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Tue Jul-21-15 10:53 PM

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3. "What was the other 10%?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jul-22-15 08:34 AM

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4. "Even if it was weakness negativity towards it would still be wrong"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Everyone has varying degrees of varying types of strength so to put down another because they're different from the group or individual isn't justifiable either.

One could say it's selfish when the act of suicide traumatically effects those not connected to the victim. Train drivers, passengers on a platform, and bystanders in general-- it's selfish in a sense to put that weight on the psyche of a stranger.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Case_One
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Wed Jul-22-15 09:18 AM

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6. "So explain the high level of suicides among Young Black Males "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I can't buy that 90% number, nor do I see it (the numbers) as a Brain Disorder.


.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
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Wed Jul-22-15 09:56 AM

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7. "did you watch the video(s)?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Wed Jul-22-15 12:27 PM

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8. "We have perhaps found exhibit A for post 1"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Just IMO though.

  

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seasoned vet
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Wed Jul-22-15 01:03 PM

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13. "seek help, seriously."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
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Wed Jul-22-15 01:40 PM

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15. "I generally seek self help and thoughtful 3rd party assistance"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

That includes thoughtful critique, but not vague snark.

Just IMO though.

  

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Triptych
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Wed Jul-22-15 12:35 PM

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9. "Does the video cite peer-reviewed research?"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

.

____________________________

http://instagram.com/yogikenan
http://instagram.com/shotbykenan
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

  

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Case_One
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Wed Jul-22-15 12:40 PM

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10. "Right!"
In response to Reply # 9


          


.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

  

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Triptych
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18. "Oh you love the scientific method now? Sit this one out."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

____________________________

http://instagram.com/yogikenan
http://instagram.com/shotbykenan
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

  

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Case_One
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Wed Jul-22-15 05:23 PM

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19. "FYI, Peer Reviewed Sources don't have to be based on the SM"
In response to Reply # 18


          

Just so you know.
.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

  

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Case_One
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Wed Jul-22-15 12:41 PM

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11. "I did watch the video and I read your OP + Subject"
In response to Reply # 7


          

And my questions and concerns still remain. Don't be defensive. I'm just voicing my concerns over the information.
.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
6065 posts
Wed Jul-22-15 01:02 PM

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12. "asking if you watched the video comes off defensive to you?"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

fuck man
civil discourse on OKP really IS dead

all you old fucks know and understand is agendas, grudges, alliances, and favorites

sheesh

  

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Trinity444
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Wed Jul-22-15 01:24 PM

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14. "Why did you ask him that?"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
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Wed Jul-22-15 01:53 PM

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17. "RE: Why did you ask him that?"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

see: agendas

i was sincerly asking

his question read as if all he did was read the title and commented

i didnt know
and didnt want to engage unless he at least watched it
so before i accused him, i asked

but when people get so caught up in agendas
they find bias where there is none
too busy looking 2-3 steps beyond your question
and it makes general conversation frustrating

this place is rife with that shit

  

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Case_One
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Wed Jul-22-15 05:25 PM

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20. "No. I was not offered. I was just say what I did."
In response to Reply # 12


          


.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Wed Jul-22-15 01:46 PM

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16. "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489848/"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This link is quite good.

Excerpt:

The presence of a mental disorder is an important risk factor for suicide. It is generally acknowledged that over 90% of those who committed suicide had a psychiatric diagnosis at the time of death.

In order to discuss the implications of psychiatric diagnosis for suicide prevention, we World Psychiatry
The World Psychiatric Association
Suicide and psychiatric diagnosis: a worldwide perspective
JOSÉ MANOEL BERTOLOTE and ALEXANDRA FLEISCHMANN

Additional article information

The World Health Organization (WHO) compiles and disseminates data on mortality and morbidity reported by its Member States, according to one of its mandates. Since the WHO's inception in 1948, the number of Member States has grown continually and so has the WHO mortality data bank. From 11 countries reporting data on mortality in 1950, the number of countries involved increased to 74 in the year 1985. More than 100 Member States reported on mortality at some point in time.

Data from developed countries (mostly in the North of Europe and of America, and a few countries of the Western Pacific Region) are received on a mostly regular basis. Most developing countries (in Latin America, Asia and in the Eastern Mediterranean Region) report on an irregular basis; very few countries in Africa regularly report on mortality to WHO.

Deaths associated with suicide are an integral part of the WHO mortality data bank. Throughout consecutive editions of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-6 to ICD-10), the category name and code of suicide have remained relatively stable. Suicide data are reported in absolute numbers along with the mid-year population of a country. The suicide rates are usually represented by country, year, sex, and age group. The most recent data available to the WHO can be accessed through its web site (www.who.int).

The official figures made available to WHO by its Member States are based on death certificates signed by legally authorized personnel, usually doctors and, to a lesser extent, police officers. Generally speaking, these professionals do not misrepresent the information. However, suicide may be hidden and underreported for several reasons, e.g. as a result of prevailing social or religious attitudes. In some places, it is believed that suicide is underreported by a percentage between 20% and 100%. This underlines the importance of bringing about corrections and improvement on a world wide basis.

In contrast to data on completed suicide, no country in the world reports to WHO official statistics on attempted suicide (and most probably countries do not collect them), which makes it impossible to relate national trends of suicide to national trends of attempted suicide. In the absence of national data, one is forced to rely on local studies, which vary considerably, for instance in terms of the operational definition of attempted suicide. The WHO/EURO Multicentre Study on Suicidal Behaviour (1) constitutes a major step forward in this area.

EPIDEMIOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS
According to calculations based on data reported to WHO by its Member States, in 1998 suicide represented 1.8% of the global burden of disease and it is expected to increase to 2.4% by the year 2020. Suicide is among the 10 leading causes of death for all ages in most of the countries for which information is available. In some countries, it is among the top three causes of death for people aged 15-34 years.

In the year 2020, approximately 1.53 million people will die from suicide based on current trends and according to WHO estimates. Ten to 20 times more people will attempt suicide worldwide (2). This represents on average one death every 20 seconds and one attempt every 1-2 seconds.

The highest suicide rates for both men and women are found in Europe, more particularly in Eastern Europe, in a group of countries that share similar historical and sociocultural characteristics, such as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and, to a lesser extent, Finland, Hungary and the Russian Federation. Nevertheless, some similarly high rates are found in countries that are quite distinct in relation to these characteristics, such as Sri Lanka and Cuba.

According to the WHO regional distribution, the lowest rates as a whole are found in the Eastern Mediterranean Region, which comprises mostly countries that follow Islamic traditions; this is also true of some Central Asian republics that had formerly been integrated into the Soviet Union. Curiously enough, when the data are separated by WHO region, the highest rates in each region, with the exception of Europe, are found in island countries, such as Cuba, Japan, Mauritius and Sri Lanka.

In Figure ​Figure1,1, global suicide rates (per 100,000 population) have been calculated starting from 1950. Deaths reported by countries in each year were averaged and projected in relation to the global population over 5 years of age at each respective year. An increase of approximately 49% for suicide rates in males and 33% for suicide rates in females can be observed between 1950 and 1995.

Figure 1
Figure 1
Global suicide rates since 1950 and projected trends until 2020
The increase in these global suicide rates must be interpreted with caution. On the one hand, it might reflect the fact that since the end of the USSR (which had an overall rate below the average), some of its former republics (particularly those with the highest rates in the world) started to report individually, thus inflating the global rate. On the other hand, figures for 1950 were based on 11 countries only, and this gradually increased up to 1995, when the estimates were based on 62 countries that reported on suicide. These 62 countries as a whole probably have higher rates, are more concerned with them and have a higher tendency to report on suicide mortality than countries where suicide is not perceived as a major public health problem.

Although it is customary in the suicidology literature to present total rates of suicide for both men and women combined, it should be noted that the current general epidemiological practice is to present rates according to sex and age, particularly when important differences (in terms of figures or risk factors) across sex or age groups exist. This is precisely the situation in relation to suicide; suicide rates of men and women are consistently different in most places, as are rates in different age groups.

Figure ​Figure11 also highlights the relatively constant predominance of suicide rates in males over suicide rates in females: 3.2:1 in 1950, 3.6:1 in 1995 and 3.9:1 in 2020. There is only one exception (China), where suicide rates in females are consistently higher than suicide rates in males, particularly in rural areas (3).

There is a clear tendency for suicide rates to increase with age (Figure ​(Figure2).2). By comparison with a global suicide rate of 26.9 deaths per 100,000 for men in 1998, the rates for specific age groups start at 1.2 (in the age group 5-14 years) and gradually increase up to 55.7 (in the age group over 75 years). The same positive relationship between age and suicide rates is observed in females: for an overall rate of 8.2 in 1998, specific age group rates grow from 0.5 per 100,000 (in the age group 5-14 years) to 18.8 (in the age group over 75 years).

Figure 2
Figure 2
Distribution of suicide rates (per 100,000) by gender and age, 1998
In spite of the wide and appropriate use of rates, the information conveyed by them alone can be misleading, particularly when comparing data across countries or regions with important differences in the demographic structure. As indicated earlier, the highest suicide rates are currently reported in Eastern Europe; however, the largest numbers of suicides are found in Asia. Given the size of their population, almost 30% of all cases of suicide worldwide are committed in China and India alone, although the suicide rate of China practically coincides with the global average and that of India is almost half of the global suicide rate. The number of suicides in China alone is 30% greater than the total number of suicides in the whole of Europe, and the number of suicides in India alone (the second highest) is equivalent to those in the four European countries with the highest number of suicides together (Russia, Germany, France and Ukraine).

Given the relatively narrow differences in the population of males and females in each age group, the large predominance of suicide rates among males is also found in relation to the actual number of suicides committed.

It is in relation to age, however, that the most striking changes are perceived when we move from rates to total numbers. Although suicide rates can be between six and eight times higher among the elderly, as compared with young people, currently more young people than elderly people are dying from suicide, globally speaking. Currently, more suicides (55%) are committed by people aged 5-44 years than by people aged 45 years and older (Figure ​(Figure3).3). Accordingly, the age group in which most suicides are currently completed is 35-44 years for both men and women.

Figure 3
Figure 3
Distribution of suicide rates (per 100,000) by gender and age, 1998
This shift in the predominance of numbers of suicide from the elderly to young people is a new phenomenon. It becomes dramatic when one considers that the proportion of the elderly in the total population is increasing at a greater rate than the one of younger people. Also, it is not the result of a divergent modification in suicide rates in these age groups: the suicide rate in young people is increasing at a greater pace than it is in the elderly.

SUICIDE AND MENTAL DISORDERS
The presence of a mental disorder is an important risk factor for suicide. It is generally acknowledged that over 90% of those who committed suicide had a psychiatric diagnosis at the time of death.

In order to discuss the implications of psychiatric diagnosis for suicide prevention, we have undertaken a systematic review of studies reporting diagnoses of mental disorders. Preliminary findings are to be found elsewhere (4,5).

The review included 31 papers, published between 1959 and 2001 world wide. In total, 15,629 cases of suicide in the general population (above the age of 10 years, both sexes) were identified. Papers focusing only on specific age groups, such as young people or the elderly, or only on specific disorders, such as depression or schizophrenia, were excluded; usually these studies included a rather small sample size. All studies retained refer to people with or without history of admission to mental hospitals (47.5% versus 52.5%, respectively). The diagnostic methods included both diagnoses established while the person was still alive and post-mortem diagnoses based on e.g. psychological autopsies (6). All diagnoses of mental disorders were made on the basis of ICD (8, 9 or 10) or DSM (III, IIIR or IV) and converted to general categories common to both systems.

It is noteworthy that the geographical and cultural representation of the cases was limited, since 82.1% of the cases originated from Europe and North America, whereas cases of Asian countries (including Australia and New Zealand) constituted the remaining part.

The overall results showed that 98% of those who committed suicide had a diagnosable mental disorder, and in this paper we will concentrate on the differences between the psychiatric diagnoses of general populations and of populations which had been admitted to mental hospitals. Out of the 15,629 cases reviewed, 7,424 cases (47.5%) had been admitted at least once to a psychiatric hospital or ward (heretofore designated as PIP), whereas there was no indication of this type of admission in 8,205 cases (52.5%), heretofore designated as GP.

Just IMO though.

  

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