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Subject: "Would You Ever Want to Go on a Tour of a Plantation???" Previous topic | Next topic
MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:22 PM

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"Would You Ever Want to Go on a Tour of a Plantation???"


  

          

our family reunion was supposed to be in Charleston this weekend. and even before all the Charleston shit popped off, things kinda fell apart. but a few people still went and they just took a plantation tour. am i the only one who never wants to set foot on a plantation in my life? i get the premise of the whole thing...really i do. maybe seeing it is different, but i can't think of anything that i would feel except rage and sadness.

she took her 11 and 9 yeah old daughters as well to...."see the destruction of our people and show why we should always be grateful..."

and i kind of get it. its history of the most forgettable and unfortunate nature. but something about that history being celebrated and kept up and profitable and toured makes me sick. i don't find them historically relevant, i find them historically sickening. is it just me?
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I lived there 13 years, never went once.
Jul 10th 2015
1
yep. its crazy. and apparently they have re-enactments and shit
Jul 10th 2015
2
Wonder where the $ goes
Jul 10th 2015
3
i'd say salaries and upkeep just to be nice
Jul 10th 2015
11
Did you see this Vox piece from a former plantation tour guide?
Jul 10th 2015
4
You're really bumming us out talking abt this slavery stuff...
Jul 10th 2015
7
right. "did they appreciate what they got?"
Jul 10th 2015
13
that was a good read.
Jul 10th 2015
9
      It's crazy to think I have a better concept of slavery than those Americ...
Jul 10th 2015
49
           my sister went on a plantation tour once with a former BF from europe
Jul 10th 2015
59
                RE: my sister went on a plantation tour once with a former BF from europ...
Jul 10th 2015
62
nope! i never understood us goin to Williamsburg like its...
Jul 10th 2015
5
we went there for our class trip in 12th grade
Jul 10th 2015
15
colonial Williamsburg was the 1st thing i thought of.
Jul 10th 2015
31
      we went in 9th grade. we tried to holla at girls from other schools
Jul 10th 2015
50
reminds me of this video
Jul 10th 2015
6
i remember that video.
Jul 10th 2015
17
And can I add the Slave Ship Museum in LA to the list?
Jul 10th 2015
8
in the shape of a fucking boat? really.
Jul 10th 2015
18
Yes. Helps me with visualizing history
Jul 10th 2015
10
i respect your opinion
Jul 10th 2015
27
      What you're saying here is part of what I was trying to say:
Jul 10th 2015
35
In my 8th grade Louisiana HIstroy class, we went on one...
Jul 10th 2015
12
that's how they get kids too
Jul 10th 2015
24
I visited several when I was in undergrad
Jul 10th 2015
14
i'm on the more rebellious side of the coin
Jul 10th 2015
23
      we can not ever forget.
Jul 10th 2015
28
      but the idea that our history started with plantations is wrong
Jul 10th 2015
30
      sure. it started in the slave castles.
Jul 10th 2015
32
      it absolutely did not start in the slave castles.
Jul 10th 2015
36
           no it started when they were marched TO the slave castles.
Jul 10th 2015
41
           Agreed...it started on the continent as free Africans
Jul 10th 2015
58
                Yup
Jul 10th 2015
71
      That doesn't mean you have to burn all plantations down though
Jul 10th 2015
33
      Agreed...it reminds of Rod Serling's speech on concentration camps...
Jul 12th 2015
84
      Yeah I feel you...I'd like to see the land turned over to local
Jul 10th 2015
60
I mean, once you tour the slave castles, Plantations are the next
Jul 10th 2015
16
i haven't had an opportunity to visit the slave castles, but i don't thi...
Jul 10th 2015
34
      i was silent during the tours
Jul 10th 2015
39
           i get it....i do.
Jul 10th 2015
42
                **YOU** ARE THE VICTORY.
Jul 10th 2015
44
                     i feel like we're so far off from their victory tho
Jul 10th 2015
47
                     ok.
Jul 10th 2015
48
                     nigga you live in America. People are still dying trying to get here in ...
Jul 10th 2015
51
                     good post
Jul 10th 2015
65
                     RE: **YOU** ARE THE VICTORY.
Jul 13th 2015
101
Sure. I took a tour of a concentration camp so ... why not. I'll admit, ...
Jul 10th 2015
19
i went to the holocaust museum and i'll never do that again
Jul 10th 2015
22
      ^
Jul 10th 2015
29
      that's funny because I was just telling someone today that when I went t...
Jul 10th 2015
38
i've using the term labor camps when talking about them lately
Jul 10th 2015
20
how do you feel about them tho.
Jul 10th 2015
40
I grew up minutes from at least 5 plantations. How many times have I bee...
Jul 10th 2015
21
how much do you think your parents had to do with that?
Jul 10th 2015
45
i've toured 2 slave castles in Ghana.
Jul 10th 2015
25
Yes. I live near Stagville...
Jul 10th 2015
26
do you think there's any glory in plantations for white people
Jul 10th 2015
43
Just looked into this
Jul 10th 2015
37
I honestly don't think I would have a problem with it.
Jul 10th 2015
46
fuuuuuuuuuck no.
Jul 10th 2015
52
when i was in Savannah I went to Wormsloe. i went for the trees
Jul 10th 2015
53
hell yes
Jul 10th 2015
54
I've been before. It was important for me to go
Jul 10th 2015
55
yup.
Jul 10th 2015
56
Yes.
Jul 10th 2015
57
only if you can go to a water park after...
Jul 10th 2015
61
ive done extensive research on my direct ancestors for 10 yrs now
Jul 10th 2015
63
I can't even understand how Alcatraz is an attraction
Jul 10th 2015
64
Some of the best views of the bay area are on Alcatraz
Jul 11th 2015
77
I think the same thing about Eastern State Penitentiary in Philly
Jul 11th 2015
79
I've been to about 5.
Jul 10th 2015
66
Yes. To see the land with my own eyes and to imagine the people
Jul 10th 2015
67
essentially, you are already on one.
Jul 10th 2015
68
This too
Jul 10th 2015
72
i won't argue with that at all.
Jul 12th 2015
86
NO WE ARE NOT. And it's disrespectful to your ancestors to say
Jul 13th 2015
89
      yes, I'm so fucking sick of stupid shit like that
Jul 13th 2015
92
      it's only stupid if you take it literally.
Jul 13th 2015
96
      i think we disrespect our ancestors in much more worse ways.
Jul 13th 2015
95
      Context is EXTREMELY important people
Jul 13th 2015
99
           RE: y'all must hate metaphors.
Jul 13th 2015
100
                Stick to your guns. Is it a metaphor or are you...
Jul 14th 2015
103
                     RE: Stick to your guns. Is it a metaphor or are you...
Jul 14th 2015
104
                     how is it that-
Jul 14th 2015
105
I've been and would go again.
Jul 10th 2015
69
I went to a plantation in Florida. It was hard but necessary.
Jul 10th 2015
70
There's a restored plantation house on top of a hill about a
Jul 11th 2015
73
Only if black folks of that heritage were allowed free admission
Jul 11th 2015
74
good idea
Jul 11th 2015
81
im with this notion
Jul 13th 2015
91
no but i've trespassed onto one
Jul 11th 2015
75
Shit. The school I went to from 3rd - 12th grade used to be a plantation...
Jul 11th 2015
76
mercy. and the school openly admitted that it was a graveyeard?
Jul 11th 2015
80
      Well, it was a rumor, but given that it was a plantation - likely true.
Jul 13th 2015
94
went to one in while in Charleston recently
Jul 11th 2015
78
RE: Would You Ever Want to Go on a Tour of a Plantation???
Jul 11th 2015
82
XXXcellent Post!!!....n/m
Jul 11th 2015
83
what i learned from leading tours about slavery at a plantation (swipe)
Jul 12th 2015
85
Texas wants to downplay slavery, remove Jim crow& kkk from text books -
Jul 12th 2015
87
This is where I am. I ain't trying to help them erase history.
Jul 13th 2015
90
only if its to buy
Jul 13th 2015
88
Would you buy to...
Jul 13th 2015
93
i went on one in jamaica
Jul 13th 2015
97
Hell yea if you trace your ancestry there you can sue
Jul 13th 2015
98
Been there done that. Whoever says no is in denial.
Jul 13th 2015
102
Yep
Jul 14th 2015
106

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:26 PM

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1. "I lived there 13 years, never went once."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Pops was the same way. "FUCK THAT, not one dime."

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:32 PM

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2. "yep. its crazy. and apparently they have re-enactments and shit"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

naw....i'm good.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:34 PM

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3. "Wonder where the $ goes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Id like to be optimistic and think it goes back into the community

But I shd probably know better

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:48 PM

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11. "i'd say salaries and upkeep just to be nice"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

but i'm sure there's a profit made, and then after that maybe some of it would go to social organizations. definitely not the community, cause that community is far removed from the community that needs help.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:37 PM

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4. "Did you see this Vox piece from a former plantation tour guide?"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-10-15 02:43 PM by John Forte

          

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8847385/what-i-learned-from-leading-tours-about-slavery-at-a-plantation

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:42 PM

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7. "You're really bumming us out talking abt this slavery stuff..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

Tell us about the good things smh

_______________________________________

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:48 PM

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13. "right. "did they appreciate what they got?""
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

you mean the food or torture?
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:45 PM

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9. "that was a good read."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

that's crazy too.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 04:00 PM

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49. "It's crazy to think I have a better concept of slavery than those Americ..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

I think every high school student here gets a few good months on Civil Rights in America. Our class got to watch a few clips from Roots.

Says something about race relations over there if people don't even understand what slavery is as a concept.

Just IMO though.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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27116 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 05:08 PM

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59. "my sister went on a plantation tour once with a former BF from europe"
In response to Reply # 49


          

the tour guide was talking about how the slaves arriving at the port of charleston were inspected for health and any possible diseases to ensure that they were fit for auction. so one of the ppl in the tour group asked what happened to the slaves that were sick/had contracted disease or were physically infirm and deemed not fit for auction. the tour guide paused for a moment as he was obviously not prepared for the question, and then said that they probably sent them back home on one of the next ships going back to africa. at which point my sister's boyfriend just lowered his head, sunk his face into his hand and silently shook his head.

>Says something about race relations over there if people don't
>even understand what slavery is as a concept.

it's really unbelievable sometimes.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 06:37 PM

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62. "RE: my sister went on a plantation tour once with a former BF from europ..."
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

>the tour guide was talking about how the slaves arriving at
>the port of charleston were inspected for health and any
>possible diseases to ensure that they were fit for auction. so
>one of the ppl in the tour group asked what happened to the
>slaves that were sick/had contracted disease or were
>physically infirm and deemed not fit for auction. the tour
>guide paused for a moment as he was obviously not prepared for
>the question, and then said that they probably sent them back
>home on one of the next ships going back to africa. at which
>point my sister's boyfriend just lowered his head, sunk his
>face into his hand and silently shook his head.
>

It's just, it's so ridiculous. That in itself frustratingly trivialises the situation. That Something can be so ridiculous that it defies comprehension to the point that people have to invent ludicrous alternatives to fill the gaps.

>>Says something about race relations over there if people
>don't
>>even understand what slavery is as a concept.
>
>it's really unbelievable sometimes.

Just IMO though.

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
14866 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:38 PM

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5. "nope! i never understood us goin to Williamsburg like its..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

disney world either

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
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Fri Jul-10-15 02:49 PM

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15. "we went there for our class trip in 12th grade"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

i don't remember hardly any of it. i remember Bush Gardens, but the Colonial shit....they only reason i know i went was cause i took pictures.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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BigJazz
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:14 PM

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31. "colonial Williamsburg was the 1st thing i thought of. "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

hated that place. not even Busch Gardens could take away my dislike for the area...

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 04:08 PM

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50. "we went in 9th grade. we tried to holla at girls from other schools"
In response to Reply # 31


          

we were out of town and didnt have to go to school. everyone looked forward to the 9th grade trip.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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teefiveten
Member since Oct 02nd 2008
33019 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:39 PM

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6. "reminds me of this video"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

my answer is HELL NO

but i love this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90XLNQXN_74

*************************************
like.me
http://tinyurl.com/3z8486u

"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:54 PM

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17. "i remember that video."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

his description of what happened was funny. but that's some bullshit right there.

i just re-watched the whole thing...and that's fucked up. it wasn't even as funny this time. they really exploited those little kids, and probably laughed their asses off while doing it.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
14866 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:44 PM

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8. "And can I add the Slave Ship Museum in LA to the list?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2015/05/slave_ship_museum_new_orleans.html

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:59 PM

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18. "in the shape of a fucking boat? really."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

ain't no way i'd set foot in that building. this was in the article:

According to that resolution, "the National Slave Ship Museum, to be located in downtown New Orleans on the Celeste Street Wharf, will recreate the saga of the African Diaspora story of the slave trade in the United States along the Mississippi River, via the Port of New Orleans, Natchez, Mississippi, and the forks in the road."

why do they want to recreate this shit so bad. it's really a psychological ploy to keep Black people in whatever place they want to keep us. if you remind someone they were always a slave, they'll never remember that they used to be free.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13575 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:45 PM

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10. "Yes. Helps me with visualizing history"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Also, fans the flames of *rage* within me, which helps to put current life into perspective.

From the perspective of a slave, we're probably living their dream right about now.

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:08 PM

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27. "i respect your opinion"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

i'm trying to think of a response without being dismissive, but we can disagree. cause i understand what you're saying. but i don't feel gratitude that i'm not a slave, i feel hatred for those people and the system who made people slaves.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13575 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 03:17 PM

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35. "What you're saying here is part of what I was trying to say:"
In response to Reply # 27


          

>i don't feel gratitude that i'm not a slave, i feel hatred
>for those people and the system who made people slaves.

I was trying to focus on the positive, but the above is true as well. Seeing this kind of stuff fans those flames of *rage* that one can use as motivation. I went to an Af. Am. musuem about slavery in Charlotte, the main takeaway I had was *rage*

  

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Creole
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Fri Jul-10-15 02:48 PM

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12. "In my 8th grade Louisiana HIstroy class, we went on one..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

RE: Would You Ever Want to Go on a Tour of a Plantation???

Was amazing, now that I recall, that a class of practically all Black kids went on the tour and paid no attention to what was really going on. We were all just glad to be out of the school and with friends to act a fool.

Mainly what I took from it though was an affinity for the architecture and the Spanish moss that hung from the magnolia trees.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/31/84/49/318449d2cfd5f6697b71b229264ca8bd.jpg

As an adult, I'd visit only to take my kids through and I'd only want them to see the slave quarters if they are still erect.

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 03:07 PM

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24. "that's how they get kids too"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

it's really a psychological tool. get em young. even planting that seed is dangerous.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
3062 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 02:49 PM

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14. "I visited several when I was in undergrad"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-10-15 03:02 PM by afrogirl_lost

          

Our tour guides were Black people, and they did a great job of explaining the lives of enslaved people and the economics connected with it. I've also visited the slave castles in Ghana and Senegal and had good experiences. For me, it's necessary to see these things for my career but I find value in visiting these places and pouring libation/praying for the ancestors. It's a form of cleansing and building my historical memory.

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
67613 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 03:06 PM

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23. "i'm on the more rebellious side of the coin"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>but I find value
>in visiting these places and pouring libation/praying for the
>ancestors. It's a form of cleansing and building my historical
>memory.

cause all i want to do it burn them down. cleansing by fire for a historical future.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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SoWhat
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:10 PM

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28. "we can not ever forget."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

and i think it's important that we preserve some plantations and slave castles as reminders of what THEY did and what WE survived as a testament to how far we've come since then. also so they cannot wipe away our history.

fuck you.

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:13 PM

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30. "but the idea that our history started with plantations is wrong"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

don't start the story in the middle. if we're gonna look at our history with reverence and in its full glory...tell the whole story. put up museums of the greatness of our beginning, not the unfortunate events that lead us here.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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SoWhat
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32. "sure. it started in the slave castles."
In response to Reply # 30
Fri Jul-10-15 03:16 PM by SoWhat

  

          

>don't start the story in the middle. if we're gonna look at
>our history with reverence and in its full glory...tell the
>whole story. put up museums of the greatness of our beginning,
>not the unfortunate events that lead us here.

it's all important.

like it or not, we became us when we were forced into American chattel slavery. that's the defining feature that makes US who we are.

fuck you.

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:18 PM

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36. "it absolutely did not start in the slave castles."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          


---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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SoWhat
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41. "no it started when they were marched TO the slave castles."
In response to Reply # 36
Fri Jul-10-15 03:27 PM by SoWhat

  

          

there's no shame in what happened to our ppl. at least not for US. at least not for ME, i should say. i have no problem thinking of Black (capital B) history beginning w/slavery. b/c if not for slavery we'd just be black (lowercase b) and would have a closer identity w/various ppls in Africa. we still have that connection but when we were separated from Africa we became another ppl. we became Black. we became Us. and that we survived as well as we have is a testament to our strength. i think we do our ancestors a great disservice if we erase that history. our ppl fought HARD to survive so you and i could be where we are today. they could've given up - they didn't. and we dishonor them if we forget all that they went through to get us here. i won't do it.

you can feel how you feel and that's fine. i'm glad we don't all agree w/you though. b/c our history needs to be preserved. you don't have to participate in that preservation - it ain't for everyone. but don't get in the way either.

fuck you.

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
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Fri Jul-10-15 05:07 PM

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58. "Agreed...it started on the continent as free Africans"
In response to Reply # 36


          

We should not just go there for the slave castles and other related sites. We should try to immerse ourselves in the culture as much as possible.

  

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SoWhat
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71. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

fuck you.

  

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csuave03
Member since May 20th 2007
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33. "That doesn't mean you have to burn all plantations down though"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I'd like to tour one

  

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Frobert
Member since Nov 03rd 2003
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84. "Agreed...it reminds of Rod Serling's speech on concentration camps..."
In response to Reply # 28
Sun Jul-12-15 12:39 AM by Frobert

  

          

"All the Dachaus must remain standing. The Dachaus, the Belsens, the Buchenwalds, the Auschwitzes – all of them. They must remain standing because they are a monument to a moment in time when some men decided to turn the Earth into a graveyard. Into it they shoveled all of their reason, their logic, their knowledge, but worst of all their conscience. And the moment we forget this, the moment we cease to be haunted by its remembrance, then we become the gravediggers."

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
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60. "Yeah I feel you...I'd like to see the land turned over to local "
In response to Reply # 23


          

Black communities so they can generate income and preserve our history. White people should not benefit economically at all.

  

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Teknontheou
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16. "I mean, once you tour the slave castles, Plantations are the next"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

logical step. So yes, I'd be down. In fact, I've been wanting to visit George Washington's birthplace for a while. In turns out my paternal grandfather's side is from there (Port Royal, VA).

  

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MrThomas43423
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34. "i haven't had an opportunity to visit the slave castles, but i don't thi..."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

i'd like them too much either. the feeling i get thinking about walking thru them is the same feeling i get

and if/when i make it to Africa and have the opportunity, i'm not sure how i'd handle it. i think i would just be mad, silent, and despondent. i'd probably cry hot tears the whole time.

i'd be more like this:

http://on.aol.com/video/michael-k--williams-emotional-breakdown-on-12-years-a-slave-spills-over-onto-arsenios-stage-518094663

all i can think of is someone who was abused. they were abused, survived, and proved their strength and resilience in making it through. but they would never honor the experience. they'd want to move on from it. they would know it help shaped them, but a constant reminder would seem harsh to me.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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SoWhat
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39. "i was silent during the tours"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

and cried after when i was alone.

but mostly i was filled w/pride. it hit me as i stood in Ghana looking through a Door of No Return that my ppl - the ones who survived - went through absolute terror and came out on the other side. when so many couldn't survive my ppl survived. and some would say they thrived, even. either way - they made it. as i stood there i didn't know if *i* could make it - from the march to the coast (in chains and being beaten) to being held in dungeons for months to being loaded on ships and then that journey across the ocean for months and THEN the plantation horrors. *i* wouldn't have made it. so those who made it must've been special. and that's what's in my genes. that's who i come from - ppl who survived terror. the mental and physical fortitude they had...i was awed by it as i stood in that dungeon under the slave castle. and i didn't cry then but when it all hit me afterward i lost it. i tear up now just typing this. i dunno that i can convey all that i felt then.

fuck you.

  

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MrThomas43423
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42. "i get it....i do."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

and i think it would be an incredibly emotional experience for me too. but i'd be angry there, cause i get angry about it sitting at my desk in an air conditioned office.

was it a victory? cause you left there and are loaded onto the ships. after that atrocity, you make it here to be sold at a slave market, then are beaten and mistreated on a plantation. we make it out of these trials, but we haven't been victorious yet.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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SoWhat
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44. "**YOU** ARE THE VICTORY."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>was it a victory?

that you can type this while seated in an air-conditioned office.

do you know how many of your grandmothers endured rape and torture just so YOU could sit there where you sit now? b/c those women could've just given up. they could've jumped off the side of the ship during the middle passage - as many ppl did. i dunno if you saw 12 Years a Slave - but in the movie one slave asks another to kill her. b/c she can't take it. that could've been your ppl. but they didn't. and they didn't (at least some of them) in part b/c they wanted a better life for YOU. YOU are their victory. they didn't get it in their lifetime. they're getting it now through us.

fuck you.

  

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MrThomas43423
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47. "i feel like we're so far off from their victory tho"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

me sitting in this office, running thru the rat race of America wasn't their goal. we were taken from our own civilizations to live under this American umbrella, and it didn't have to be like that. me sitting in this office living the American dream is a marginal victory. its not a victory...its a consolation. i think autonomy is a better victory. ours, again. i just saw someone say, "we get so focused on the cheese we forget the trap." and i think that's true.

>>was it a victory?
>
>that you can type this while seated in an air-conditioned
>office.
>
>do you know how many of your grandmothers endured rape and
>torture just so YOU could sit there where you sit now? b/c
>those women could've just given up. they could've jumped off
>the side of the ship during the middle passage - as many ppl
>did. i dunno if you saw 12 Years a Slave - but in the movie
>one slave asks another to kill her. b/c she can't take it.
>that could've been your ppl. but they didn't. and they
>didn't (at least some of them) in part b/c they wanted a
>better life for YOU. YOU are their victory. they didn't get
>it in their lifetime. they're getting it now through us.
>


---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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SoWhat
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48. "ok."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri Jul-10-15 04:13 PM

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51. "nigga you live in America. People are still dying trying to get here in ..."
In response to Reply # 47


          

Africans are coming here to "make it"

you don't have to work that boring office job. You could apply for grants, start your own business, etc...

You can't be mad at America because you settled for a gig to pay the bills.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Mgmt
Member since Feb 17th 2005
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65. "good post"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

>>was it a victory?
>
>that you can type this while seated in an air-conditioned
>office.
>
>do you know how many of your grandmothers endured rape and
>torture just so YOU could sit there where you sit now? b/c
>those women could've just given up. they could've jumped off
>the side of the ship during the middle passage - as many ppl
>did. i dunno if you saw 12 Years a Slave - but in the movie
>one slave asks another to kill her. b/c she can't take it.
>that could've been your ppl. but they didn't. and they
>didn't (at least some of them) in part b/c they wanted a
>better life for YOU. YOU are their victory. they didn't get
>it in their lifetime. they're getting it now through us.
>

  

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Meadow
Member since May 05th 2012
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Mon Jul-13-15 09:32 PM

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101. "RE: **YOU** ARE THE VICTORY."
In response to Reply # 44


          


EXACTLY!!!

I literally screamed THANK YOU! When I read your response.

I visited the Af-Am museum in Baltimore some time ago and still remember the reaction of this one kid to one of the slave exhibits. He was there with his grandmother and appeared to be 10 or 11 years old.

She was explaining some aspects of slavery to him and he responded
that it wouldn't have been me and later responded that I'm not a slave while walking away from the exhibit. He basically wanted to leave.

I wanted to interject but knew that I wouldn't be articulate enough at the moment to address how I knew he was feeling.

There needs to be some sort of pamphlet or guide to teaching Black kids about slavery. Its too easy for some Black kids to internalize this history in negative ways and not see ANY source of pride in where we are now given what our ancestors went through.





  

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SuiteLady
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:01 PM

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19. "Sure. I took a tour of a concentration camp so ... why not. I'll admit, ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

hesitant about the concentration camp, but once I got there I learn a lot and I value having had that experience.

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:03 PM

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22. "i went to the holocaust museum and i'll never do that again"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

  

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MrThomas43423
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29. "^"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          


---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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SuiteLady
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:21 PM

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38. "that's funny because I was just telling someone today that when I went t..."
In response to Reply # 22
Fri Jul-10-15 03:25 PM by SuiteLady

  

          

our local holocaust museum I didn't give my self enough time (I was attending a play after) and that I need to go back. My conversation with the docent was engaging because I told him about having visited Terezin in Prague and some of the things I learned about in Germany. He gave me all this extra information and we zigzagged around the museum as the conversation saw fit. I didn't get the usual tour.

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:03 PM

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20. "i've using the term labor camps when talking about them lately"
In response to Reply # 0


          

just to check the responses.

But yeah, I've been to a few.

I'm from southeast Georgia, so they're kind of hard to avoid

  

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MrThomas43423
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40. "how do you feel about them tho."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

when you drive by them are you desensitized or do you look at them and feel anything?
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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placee_22
Member since Sep 30th 2002
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:03 PM

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21. "I grew up minutes from at least 5 plantations. How many times have I bee..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

you guessed it...ZERO

  

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MrThomas43423
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45. "how much do you think your parents had to do with that?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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SoWhat
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25. "i've toured 2 slave castles in Ghana."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the experiences were wonderful. i came out of them w/renewed reverence for my ancestors and new pride in my identity. b/c my ppl were superheroes if they could survive those horrors. millions died - we come from those who made it.

anyway, yeah i'd tour a plantation. i'd love to.

fuck you.

  

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kevb
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26. "Yes. I live near Stagville..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-10-15 03:11 PM by kevb

          

...which was one of the largest in the south. The Cameron from Cameron Indoor Stadium stems from this family. I haven't been there, but there is a section that is free to the public down the street called Horton's Grove. Horton's Grove is home to 4 two story dormitory style slave quarters. They were very unique for the 1850's. They were built by the Africans as well as a huge tobacco barn down the road from them. I visit there a couple of times a year. I pay homage for their struggle and survival. I look for the different energies around the plantation. I look at the different trees that seem to be a few centuries old and imagine how many enslaved African were whipped on those trunks. Yeah, I like going to plantations. It make the struggle of my ancestors seem more real and it humbles me.

http://www.opendurham.org/buildings/horton-grove

Kev

  

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MrThomas43423
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43. "do you think there's any glory in plantations for white people"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

who profited and founded this country off slave labor?

i see plantations as glorious for them and somber for us. and that confliction is what keeps me from even remotely embracing them.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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csuave03
Member since May 20th 2007
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Fri Jul-10-15 03:21 PM

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37. "Just looked into this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there's a plantation 25 minutes away from my home town. I'll definitely check that out when I go back to visit.

I visited many different landmarks over the USA but nothing like this.

  

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ShinobiShaw
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46. "I honestly don't think I would have a problem with it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Its just a building now.
I felt the same way about the Anne Frank house in Amsterdam. I'm not jewish but there are plenty of jewish people that visit that site.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Fri Jul-10-15 04:16 PM

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52. "fuuuuuuuuuck no. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri Jul-10-15 04:19 PM

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53. "when i was in Savannah I went to Wormsloe. i went for the trees"
In response to Reply # 0


          

but my wife and I definitely had a Wtf moment where we talked about how "we" were out in those fields...

I don't like our history but I'm not ashamed of it. I used to be but fuck that....

started from the bottom now we here.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
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Fri Jul-10-15 04:24 PM

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54. "hell yes"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Sleepy
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55. "I've been before. It was important for me to go"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It really brought it home for me. I really needed to see what those conditions were really like, and not some Hollywood glamorized version.

You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles


Never Tired, Always Sleepy

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
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Fri Jul-10-15 04:32 PM

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56. "yup. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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Marla
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57. "Yes."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

When I first came to Georgia as an adult and was able to see the trees and how densely packed they were and how dark it was beneath them I got a much better idea what it meant to be running for one's life. Even now I look into and through the trees when I'm out driving.

No tv show, article or photograph ever prepared me for that. I don't believe anything positive has ever come by way of avoiding the aspects of history, personal or collective, that are painful, anger inducing, or shameful. In fact I think that's how we ended up with the whitewashed version of history that we are taught in schools. That's why you get people saying that they "wouldn't have been a slave" because they're so tough. They think that only weak people were enslaved, and take on the same view of slavery as the people in the story who were trying to redeem the slaveowners instead of accepting a more factual version of the institution of slavery as a whole.

It's easier to believe that in some way 100 people wanted to be slaves to 3 owners than to believe that it wasn't just 3 owners, but an entire society and country that did everything it could to ensure that they justified the institution of slavery.

  

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sosumi
Member since May 30th 2012
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Fri Jul-10-15 05:46 PM

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61. "only if you can go to a water park after..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

hello colonial williamsburg

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
6035 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 06:56 PM

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63. "ive done extensive research on my direct ancestors for 10 yrs now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

anger and rage of the history of it left my body a long time ago

it happened
and its history
part of MY history
id love to see one

anyone ive come in contact with still on that anger/rage tip, cant tell you about their family past their great grandparents

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 06:59 PM

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64. "I can't even understand how Alcatraz is an attraction"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

why the fuck would you want to visit a jail during your vacation?

no, not interested

I mashed on the gas driving past a cotton field in Texas

fuck a tour, get me out of here!

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Sat Jul-11-15 09:41 AM

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77. "Some of the best views of the bay area are on Alcatraz"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

If you grew up in the bay you went on school trips there


Seeing where Al Capone or Machine Gun Kelly lived was the coolest shit to a young boy

  

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exactopposite
Member since Aug 21st 2002
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Sat Jul-11-15 12:24 PM

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79. "I think the same thing about Eastern State Penitentiary in Philly"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

no way in hell. Ain't no black man in his right mind paying to get into a penitentiary

  

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bayoubyyou
Member since Nov 06th 2005
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Fri Jul-10-15 09:31 PM

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66. "I've been to about 5. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Most in undergrad and grad school. Went to at least one or two on my own.

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Jul-10-15 09:51 PM

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67. "Yes. To see the land with my own eyes and to imagine the people"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

moving through the space


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Fri Jul-10-15 09:58 PM

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68. "essentially, you are already on one."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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csuave03
Member since May 20th 2007
3067 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 11:13 PM

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72. "This too"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

albeit we get way more flexibility as far as what we can do

  

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MrThomas43423
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
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Sun Jul-12-15 10:31 AM

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86. "i won't argue with that at all."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          


---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jul-13-15 07:26 AM

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89. "NO WE ARE NOT. And it's disrespectful to your ancestors to say"
In response to Reply # 68
Mon Jul-13-15 07:48 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

Otherwise. This is why folks need to visit plantations. To get some real perspective because if you think today's struggle is anywhere on the same level to our folks folk struggle, then you don't understand their struggle.


I mean this is literally committing misconception number 3 from the Vox article of misconceptions that white people have about slavery; thinking it's comprable to living in poverty.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Mon Jul-13-15 09:10 AM

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92. "yes, I'm so fucking sick of stupid shit like that "
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

Complaining from an air conditioned office when are forebearers were working 6 days a week for 12-14 hrs doing manual labor in the heat of the south. But essentially we on a plantation. Stfu and stop disrespecting the reality

All yall need to go to plantation tours if u write or cosign some shit like that

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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96. "it's only stupid if you take it literally."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

>Complaining from an air conditioned office when are
>forebearers were working 6 days a week for 12-14 hrs doing
>manual labor in the heat of the south. But essentially we on a
>plantation. Stfu and stop disrespecting the reality

ppl of color? essentially? yes. i standby that statement.

>All yall need to go to plantation tours if u write or cosign
>some shit like that

i maintain that the plantations of old that you describe, have merely been transformed to create the "reality" you know.

can you tell me how i'm wrong?

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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95. "i think we disrespect our ancestors in much more worse ways."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          





.......ourselves, even moreso.

but, ok.

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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csuave03
Member since May 20th 2007
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Mon Jul-13-15 05:55 PM

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99. "Context is EXTREMELY important people"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

y'all must hate metaphors.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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100. "RE: y'all must hate metaphors."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

only if there's not a beat attached.



we are indeed smart abt dumb stuff, ....& vice versa.

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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103. "Stick to your guns. Is it a metaphor or are you..."
In response to Reply # 100
Tue Jul-14-15 07:24 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

maintaining "that the plantations of old that you describe, have merely been transformed to create the "reality" you know"?

Seems like you are backtracking when you make that statement and then say you weren't being literal but speaking metaphorically.

At any rate you are comparing modern living to slavery and that's disrespectful to the memories of those who were slaves. Like I said before, you are contributing to the same misconception that the author of this vox piece on slavery says racist people do all the time, think slavery and living in poverty are comprable.

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8847385/what-i-learned-from-leading-tours-about-slavery-at-a-plantation


Also, want to know what the 21 century analog of 18 centuey slavery is? 21st century slavery. There are millions of people in slavery in 2015 and I am not talking about people in shitty jobs in the US.

http://www.endslaverynow.org/?gclid=CjwKEAjw5pKtBRCqpfPK5qXatWYSJABi5kTxTe80QvhfWb3PaFvYLaxzLHLurpDI9mypR-8vCaHx1BoCP4Lw_wcB



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-15 11:05 AM

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104. "RE: Stick to your guns. Is it a metaphor or are you..."
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

i haven't "switched guns" atall.

if so, show me where.

>maintaining "that the plantations of old that you describe,
>have merely been transformed to create the "reality" you
>know"?

>Seems like you are backtracking when you make that statement
>and then say you weren't being literal but speaking
>metaphorically.

i used a metaphor to describe what has happened in reality.

tell me how i am incorrect in doing so.

>At any rate you are comparing modern living to slavery and
>that's disrespectful to the memories of those who were slaves.
>Like I said before, you are contributing to the same

i don't think so.

....and i still think we disrespect our ancestors in much more worse ways.

ourselves even moreso.

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-15 11:23 AM

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105. "how is it that-"
In response to Reply # 103
Tue Jul-14-15 11:23 AM by kinetic94761180

  

          

me acknowledging something that i see as true and calling it what it is, is somehow, in whatever shape or form worse than those who simply say "that's not true, you're wrong," ....but can't tell me *how*.

slavery, as our ancestors knew it, was of course more tragic. and more raw and....unrefined, if you will.

where do you get your definition of slavery from?

hopefully not the same place as that "illegal immigrant" definition, because that could cause confusion.

all that i am saying is that, because we have failed to realize that we live in a system of racism/yt supremacy, we have allowed those slaveholders, and *their* ancestors, to simply transform slavery as a way of economics then, into the "workforces" of today.

we should not accept that any wage is livable, and if it is not, how is it not comparable, w/ times? do we not use this same logic to compare things of much lesser magnitude, like style and haircuts & shit?

racism/yt supremacy, in its' refinement stage (where we are currently) does not require a racist to have to be overtly racist. we have made it easy for slaveholders to evolve into many of the CEOs and administrators throughout the world.

by stopping to celebrate what we call "small victories," and not dealing with the overall dynamic of racism/yt supremacy.

if i'm wrong, tell me how.

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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The Wordsmith
Member since Aug 13th 2002
17070 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 10:07 PM

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69. "I've been and would go again."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

No shame to me. I'd be more ashamed if my ancestors were cruel slave owners. Plus I wouldn't dare want that history erased.



Since 1976

  

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Castro
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50751 posts
Fri Jul-10-15 10:18 PM

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70. "I went to a plantation in Florida. It was hard but necessary."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
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Sat Jul-11-15 07:13 AM

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73. "There's a restored plantation house on top of a hill about a"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

quarter mile from my house. It's a law office now.

Fuck that house for the past, present, and future.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Sat Jul-11-15 07:16 AM

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74. "Only if black folks of that heritage were allowed free admission "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't live far from George Washington's plantation and one day I rode the trail that leads to it and saw that they charged for entrance and immediately thought it should be free. Charging black people for entrance and especially those of the diaspora seems kind of messed up-- like the estate is still profiting off black bodies and labor.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
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Sat Jul-11-15 02:48 PM

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81. "good idea"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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LES
Member since Oct 17th 2006
4533 posts
Mon Jul-13-15 08:21 AM

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91. "im with this notion"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

>I don't live far from George Washington's plantation and one
>day I rode the trail that leads to it and saw that they
>charged for entrance and immediately thought it should be
>free. Charging black people for entrance and especially those
>of the diaspora seems kind of messed up-- like the estate is
>still profiting off black bodies and labor.

__________
http://leswrite.com/

  

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samsara
Member since Sep 15th 2002
3464 posts
Sat Jul-11-15 08:58 AM

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75. "no but i've trespassed onto one "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

from what i understood they used to do tours until they were bought by a new owner who then never reopened
we went through a break in fencing
and walked down the long path to the big house and went over to the side to see the slave quarters
the sun started going down
and it freaked me out
for a whole bunch of reasons

i was happy to be on the other side of the fence
i don't think i'll ever do a tour

"i fear no fate" e.e. cummings
"No girl. No fried chicken. I'm going back to get some sleep." - Haruki Murakami

  

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Overqualified
Member since May 03rd 2006
4543 posts
Sat Jul-11-15 09:17 AM

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76. "Shit. The school I went to from 3rd - 12th grade used to be a plantation..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The masters house still remained and was preserved with some original fixtures and furnitnure as admin offices, meeting space, etc. There was also a slave graveyard behind the highschool that had been overgrown. Looking back on it, it was kind of crazy.

Streets won't let me chill.

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sat Jul-11-15 01:13 PM

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80. "mercy. and the school openly admitted that it was a graveyeard?"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

There was also a slave graveyard behind the
>highschool that had been overgrown. Looking back on it, it was
>kind of crazy.


Did anyone ever do any research on the people buried there?


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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Overqualified
Member since May 03rd 2006
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Mon Jul-13-15 02:52 PM

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94. "Well, it was a rumor, but given that it was a plantation - likely true."
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

...and given that in the present day these are rich white people we're talking about, I doubt that they were going out of their way to do anything like that. If that area ever got developed, they may stumble across something.

Streets won't let me chill.

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2729 posts
Sat Jul-11-15 12:21 PM

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78. "went to one in while in Charleston recently"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It was interesting to see, but I (a white guy) had mixed feelings about it all. They definitely glossed over all the horrors slavery, which made it worse. It was more presented as a beautiful farm, and yes there were slaves but they were such great people! I felt sort of ashamed to be walking around there like the other dumb tourists gawking. It's not really like a Holocaust museum or concentration camp, where nobody is trying to put a positive spin on it.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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Brownsugar
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Sat Jul-11-15 03:14 PM

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82. "RE: Would You Ever Want to Go on a Tour of a Plantation???"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...??? right about now, I don't think so...

I will try to explain my point on this subject to the best of my ability. I am going to try and make this as short as possible but thorough enough for those to care to believe or/and understand.

All through my childhood, my mother used to tell us a lot of stories passed down from her mother and grandmother about slavery and events that took place during slavery. During my childhood, I thought some of the things that my mother would tell us about the past was, totally crazy but I later found a lot of things that she told us were very true. As a child my mother was the first to tell all of her children about Mermaids. At first, it seemed like a fairy tale but her stories were later told by my grandmother and other family members and yes, I now do believe that Mermaids really did exist. Mermaids did not seem to be a big thing to the people of the past. It was just a thing with them that if they had to travel the waters in their homemade canoes, they would know to take a BIG stick or other large object to hit a Mermaid if they tried to pull someone from their canoe.

My mother also told us that ghosts helped free the slaves in the south. When she first told me this, I just knew she had surely "Flew The Coop"!!! My mother, grandmother and other family members frequently mentioned the ghost face in the Aliceville AL, which is the state that they grew up in. Yes, I believed this and I did have the opportunity to see this ghost face in the window back in the '70's and again last October. I did post about this last year. The first time that I saw this image in the courthouse window, it was amazing to me and ever since I saw the face there, I always wondered what would happen if they ever demolished the courthouse building???

We went back to see it again, last October and I was very happy to be able to show this ghost face in the window to my 16 year old niece and her non-believing in God and spirits brother this image. This time when went to see it, we were able to stand right there, take photos and walk on the grounds of the courthouse building. There was a time that blacks could not go on the grounds of this building and were not allowed to stop or stare at the image. When we saw the image last October, it took a whole new spin on me!!! On our way back from AL to Chicago while waiting on our plane to arrive my niece found a lot of information about the Face in the courthouse window, I still didn't think a lot more about it until I got back home and she sent me this link>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkjr1Ml0gj8 ???WTF!!! This story is no where near the story told to me by my mother and grand parents. I even met a White lady from that town when I was in the hospital back in the late 1980's that told me the same version of the story that my relatives told me, which was the face in the window, which I found out last year was named Henry wells. This lady also said that he was hung for looking at a White woman and that he denied the criminal charges and promised the judge in this case that if they hung him that they would surely see him again. The judge considered Henry Wells words as being totally disrespect to him and ordered them to hang Henry right in from of him so that he could watch. Short after Henry Wells died from hanging, his face appeared in the courthouse window where he was executed. They said the judge had them change the window several times but his face would re-appear the next day.

After my niece sent the link about this, I started to do some internet research about the Henry Wells story. I found out that the old lady in the U-tube video in the above paragraph was an honorary citizen of Aliceville AL and also worked at the Pickens County Courthouse. I was TOTALLY SHOCKED to find out this this lady, her daughter and her son had been in a double murder/suicide about 9 months before we went to the courthouse to see the image of Henry Wells!!! >>>http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20131206/NEWS/131209823

This Henry Wells ghost story has been very heavy on my mind since our return from Alabama. There is so many questions and no real answers about this particular ghost story...The obvious lies about this story, the quiet, hush-hush part of this priceless piece of African American history.

Yes, Alabama is a real place for ghost in my opinion. I even learned about, "The Thirteen Ghost Of Alabama" A book written by a lady by the name of, Kathryn Tucker Windham>>> http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2014/07/take_a_photo_tour_of_real_site.html I have not read the book but I did look at some of her links on U-Tube.

For those that don't believe that there is really such of a thing as ghost, you need to go and see it for yourself. It is as real as the sun and the moon that shines above us all, there is no denying that the image of Henry Wells is real>>> https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AtM9ltN8dQLafCWcPxrqrmebvZx4?p=Henry+Wells+Ghost+Images&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-700&fp=1

If you wonder how this relates to the subject of taking a tour of a plantation??? I did finally realize that there was some truth in what my mother told me about ghost helped free the slaves. From what I have heard, ghosts started popping up in the big fabulous plantations just like Henry Wells and the people that lived on these plantations had to leave out of fear. I doubt very seriously if the tour guides on these plantation tours are going to tell any of these type of stories which do exist.

Even Spike Lee touched on stories of this type in his movie, "Tales From The Hood">>> https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqID0dKFVQhgALv00nIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByYXI3cnIwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDNA--?p=Tales+From+the+Hood+Plantation+Scenes&vid=da38842c1f76dd8a58d9beee84a4a2b5&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.CuQazw1yhQYCDM7Dizf8tQ%26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D166%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DuW6S19_dUwU&tit=Corbin+Bernsen+Vs+Niggra+doll&c=3&h=166&w=300&l=46&sigr=11bfk3o93&sigt=10tr2sl4e&sigi=12ktqk2d1&age=1291125191&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&hsimp=yhs-att_001&hspart=att&tt=b I do believe stories of ghosts were very common during our plantation days.

It seems to me that THEY want to pretend that God did not play a part in the slavery game and that we came as far as we have thanks to THEM & us. I just want to know why, why, why so many secrets about God & spirits when the subject of slavery come into play???

I really don't think I want to go and tour a plantation, just like other people that posted here, I think it would hurt me too much and knowing the knowledge that I picked up last year in Alabama and linking the other things that I learn about African American slavery, I think it would just be too much for me to bear. I haven't gotten over the image of Henry Wells that we saw in Alabama last year. Since that visit, I have no desire to ever go back that way again. I cannot watch Ghost stories like I used to before I went there. I always have an open ear for any knowledge that I learn about our slaver days, but to tour these places would be too much for me to deal with right now.

The story of slavery is deeper and wider than any ocean or sea and I feel that I have seen enough. I will watch stuff about it on tv, word of mouth or the internet. After writing this mini-manuscript, nope, I don't think I want to take a tour of any plantations down south or go to any places down there with any prevalent slavery stories :-) :-) :-) !!!



♥ :* The Revolution Will Not B Televised :* ♥

  

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Brownsugar
Charter member
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Sat Jul-11-15 07:51 PM

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83. "XXXcellent Post!!!....n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



The Revolution Will Not B Televised

  

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_explain555
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85. "what i learned from leading tours about slavery at a plantation (swipe)"
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Sun Jul-12-15 09:39 AM by _explain555

          


http://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8847385/what-i-learned-from-leading-tours-about-slavery-at-a-plantation


I used to lead tours at a plantation. You won’t believe the questions I got about slavery.

by Margaret Biser on June 29, 2015

Up until a few weeks ago, I worked at a historic site in the South that included an old house and a nearby plantation. My job was to lead tours and tell guests about the people who made plantations possible: the slaves.

The site I worked at most frequently had more than 100 enslaved workers associated with it— 27 people serving the household alone, outnumbering the home's three white residents by a factor of nine. Yet many guests who visited the house and took the tour reacted with hostility to hearing a presentation that focused more on the slaves than on the owners.

He said, "Listen, I just wanted to say that dragging all this slavery stuff up again is bringing down America"
The first time it happened, I had just finished a tour of the home. People were filing out of their seats, and one man stayed behind to talk to me. He said, "Listen, I just wanted to say that dragging all this slavery stuff up again is bringing down America."

I started to protest, but he interrupted me. "You didn't know. You're young. But America is the greatest country in the world, and these people out there, they'd do anything to make America less great." He was loud and confusing, and I was 22 years old and he seemed like a million feet tall.

Lots of folks who visit historic sites and plantations don't expect to hear too much about slavery while they're there. Their surprise isn't unjustified: Relatively speaking, the move toward inclusive history in museums is fairly recent, and still underway. And as the recent debates over the Confederate flag have shown, as a country we're still working through our response to the horrors of slavery, even a century and a half after the end of the Civil War.

The majority of interactions I had with museum guests were positive, and most visitors I encountered weren't as outwardly angry as that man who confronted me early on. (Though some were. One favorite: a 60-ish guy in a black tank top who, annoyed both at having to wait for a tour and at the fact that the next tour focused on slaves, came back at me with, "Yeah, well, Egyptians enslaved the Israelites, so I guess what goes around comes around!")

Still, I'd often meet visitors who had earnest but deep misunderstandings about the nature of American slavery. These folks were usually, but not always, a little older, and almost invariably white. I was often asked if the slaves there got paid, or (less often) whether they had signed up to work there. You could tell from the questions — and, not less importantly, from the body language — that the people asking were genuinely ignorant of this part of the country's history.

The more overtly negative reactions to hearing about slave history were varied in their levels of subtlety. Sometimes it was as simple as watching a guest's body language go from warm to cold at the mention of slavery in the midst of the historic home tour. I also met guests from all over the country who, by means of suggestive questioning of the "Wouldn't you agree that..." variety, would try to lead me to admit that slavery and slaveholders weren't as bad as they've been made out to be.

On my tours, such moments occurred less frequently if visitors of color were present. Perhaps guests felt more comfortable asking me these questions because I am white, though my African-American coworkers were by no means exempt from such experiences. At any rate, these moments happened often enough that I eventually began writing them down (and, later, tweeting about them).

Taken together, these are the most common misconceptions about American slavery I encountered during my time interpreting history to the public:

1) People think slaveholders "took care" of their slaves out of the goodness of their hearts, rather than out of economic interest

There is a surprisingly prevalent belief out there that slaves' rations and housing were bestowed upon them out of the master's goodwill, rather than handed down as a necessity for their continued labor — and their master's continued profit.

This view was expressed to me often, usually by people asking if the family was "kind" or "benevolent" to their slaves, but at no point was it better encapsulated than by a youngish mom taking the house tour with her 6-year-old daughter a couple of years ago. I had been showing them the inventory to the building, which sets a value on all the high-ticket items in the home, including silver, books, horses, and, of course, actual human people. (Remember that the technical definition of a slave is not just an unpaid worker, but a person considered property.)

"Did the slaves here appreciate the care they got from their mistress?" she asked, pinchedly
For most guests, this is the most emotionally meaningful moment of the tour. I showed the young mother some of the slaves' names and pointed out which people were related to each other. The mom stiffened up, raised her chin, and asked pinchedly, "Did the slaves here appreciate the care they got from their mistress?"

2) People know that field slavery was bad but think household slavery was pretty all right, if not an outright sweet deal

"These were house slaves, so they must have had a pretty all right life, right?" is a phrase I heard again and again. Folks would ask me if members of the enslaved household staff felt "fortunate" that they "got to" sleep in the house or "got to" serve a politically powerful owner.

Relatedly, many guests seemed to think that the only reason to seek liberation from household slavery was if you were being beaten or abused. A large part of the house tours I gave was narratives of men and women who dared to attempt escape from it, and so many museum visitors asked me, in all earnestness and surprise, why those men and women tried to escape: "They lived in a nice house here, and they weren't being beaten. Do we know why they wanted to leave?" These folks were seeing the evil of slavery primarily as a function of the physical environment and the behavior of individual slaveowners, not as inherent to the system itself.

It is worth mentioning here that the bulk of wanted ads placed in newspapers for fugitive slaves are for house servants, not field workers. Apparently whatever slavery was like in the big house, people were willing to risk their lives to get away from it.

3) People think slavery and poverty are interchangeable

Sometimes in the course of a conversation, guests I spoke with would remark that while being a field slave was indeed difficult, on the whole it was hardly worse than being a humble farmer living off the land. Folks have not always been taught that slavery was much more than just difficult labor: It was violence, assault, family separation, fear.

One important branch of this phenomenon was guests huffily bringing up every disadvantaged group of white people under the sun — the Irish, the Polish, the Jews, indentured servants, regular servants, poor people, white women, Baptists, Catholics, modern-day wage workers, whomever — and say something like, "Well, you know they had it almost as bad as/just as bad as/much worse than slaves did." Within the context of a tour or other interpretation, this behavior had the effect of temporarily pulling sympathy and focus away from African Americans and putting it on whites.

The most extreme example of this occurred in my very last week of work. A gentlemen came in to view our replica slave quarter and, upon learning how crowded it was, said, "Well, I've seen taverns where five or six guys had to share a bed!" — thus adding "tavern-goers" to the list of white people who supposedly had it just as bad as slaves.

4) People don't understand how prejudice influenced slaveholders' actions beyond mere economic interest

I was occasionally asked what motivation slaveholders would have had for beating, starving, or otherwise maltreating enslaved workers. This was often phrased as, "If you think about it economically, they don't work as hard if you don't feed 'em!" (The frequent use of the general "you" in this formulation is significant, because it assumes that the archetypal listener is a potential slaveholder —i.e., that the archetypal listener is white.)

Sometimes this question was asked sincerely; at other times the asker was using it to suggest that stories of abuse, suffering, and exploitation under slavery were just outliers or exaggerations.

What this perspective fails to take into account is the racist beliefs that made cruelty to slaves seem ethically permissible. Slaveowners told each other that black workers were stronger than white ones and thus didn't require as much food or rest. They also told each other that black Americans had a higher pain tolerance — literal thick skin — and that therefore physical punishments could be employed with less restraint.

Such beliefs also helped slaveowners feel confident dismissing complaints from enslaved workers as ungrateful whining.

5) People think "loyalty" is a fair term to apply to people held in bondage

One of the few times I actually felt scared of a guest was during a crowded tour a couple of years ago. I was describing a typical dining room service: the table packed with wealthy and influential couples from the surrounding town, and, in the corners of the room, enslaved waiting men watching and serving but unable to speak. The tour was so crowded that not everyone could fit into the room, and a few tourists were listening from the hallway.

As soon as I finished my sentence about the slaves, an expressionless voice behind me intoned, "Were they loyal?" I turned around, and saw a man resting his arms on either side of the door frame behind me, blocking the exit. He looked like he was about to slap me.

I asked him why he would ask that. "They gave 'em food. Gave 'em a place to live," he said. He was just staring into the room, blank in the eyes.

"I think most people would act ‘loyal' to a person who could shoot them for leaving," I said. He and his adult sons keep their arms crossed as they stared at me for the rest of the tour, and I tried to stay toward the middle of the group.

Why these misconceptions are so prevalent is a fair question. Sometimes guests were just repeating ideas they'd heard in school or from family. They were only somewhat invested in those ideas personally, and they were open to hearing new perspectives (especially when backed up by historical data).

In many other cases, however, justifications of slavery seemed primarily like an attempt by white Americans to avoid feelings of guilt for the past. After all, for many people, beliefs about one's ancestors reflect one's beliefs about oneself. We don't want our ancestors to have done bad things because we don't want to think of ourselves as being bad people. These slavery apologists were less invested in defending slavery per se than in defending slaveowners, and they weren't defending slaveowners so much as themselves.

"Were they loyal?" I asked him why he would ask that. "They gave 'em food. Gave 'em a place to live."
Other guests seemed to have come around to slavery apologetics through a different route: They seemed find part of their identity in a sense of class victimhood, and they were unwilling to share the sympathy and attention of victimhood with black Americans. As Frank Guan pointed out in the New Republic, explicitness of racism tends to be inversely proportional to social class. Guests who expressed racism most openly to me often appeared to have had recent ancestors who were poor, who were prevented by convention and economics from rising in social status, and who were exploited by the powerful — but who were protected by their whiteness from the extreme oppression visited on African Americans. These guests felt that the deck had been stacked against them for generations, and their sense of ancestral victimhood was so personal that the suggestion that any group of people had it worse than their ancestors did was a threat to their sense of self.

And maybe some of these guests were just looking for somewhere to place their anger at their problems, their sense of powerlessness, and their discomfort at social change. They found a scapegoat in black America. I imagine that's what motivated Charleston shooter Dylann Roof — that sense of being aggrieved, and wanting someone to hate for it.

Regardless of why they were espoused, all the misconceptions discussed here lead to the same result: the assertion that slavery wasn't really all that bad ("as long as you had a godly master," as one guest put it). And if slavery itself was benign — slavery, a word which in most parlances is a shorthand for unjust hardship and suffering — if even slavery itself was all right, then how bad can the struggles faced by modern-day African Americans really be? Why feel bad for those who complain about racist systems today? The minimization of the unjustness and horror of slavery does more than simply keep the bad feelings of guilt, jealousy, or anger away: It liberates the denier from social responsibility to slaves' descendants.

The question of how to improve this state of affairs is gigantic, and better heads than mine have already said much about it. The tough thing is that racism comes more from the gut than from the mind: You can prove slavery was bad six ways from Sunday, but people can still choose to believe otherwise if they want. Addressing racism isn't just about correcting erroneous beliefs — it's about making people see the humanity in others. We need better education that demonstrates the complexity and dignity of all people; continued efforts from community organizations and faith communities to give justice its due; and better media portraying people of color as people, not caricatures or symbols. Art, public school, faith, entertainment — these are voices that address the subconscious, voices we absorb silently without even noticing. None of these is a complete solution, of course — they are all oblique routes to building compassion.

On the very small scale of leading historic house tours, what helped me combat ahistorical statements was to establish trust and rapport with guests from the get-go. For me, gentleness was key: It created an environment in which people were willing to hear new views and felt less nervous asking questions. For example, guests — especially older folks — used to ask me all the time whether the people who owned the house were "good slaveowners." I would say, "Well, that's an interesting question," and suggest a couple of reasons why even the phrase good slaveowner itself is troubling. They'd nod and look reflective. We were already friends, so they didn't feel attacked by the correction. Then again, maybe they only believed me because they trusted a fellow white person as an unbiased source. And making a personal connection isn't a foolproof way to diffuse racism, as the shooting in Charleston shows: Roof felt so welcomed by the members of Emanuel AME Church that he considered not killing any of them, yet ultimately he went through with his plan.

An older colleague once reminded me to "talk to people, not at them." It's a small piece of advice. But day by day as I was face to face with strangers, challenging their deeply held beliefs on race, it helped.

Margaret Biser gave educational tours and presentations at a historic site for more than six years. Read more stories of her experiences on Twitter @AfAmHistFail.

  

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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
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Sun Jul-12-15 11:43 AM

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87. "Texas wants to downplay slavery, remove Jim crow& kkk from text books -"
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So while folks are actively trying to erase history
yea I'd definitely go see history in person

But I'd go with an all blk tour group, If possible
Or just stay waaaay behind the mixed group/ignore the guide


http://rt.com/usa/272293-texas-history-slavery-kkk/



)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jul-13-15 07:39 AM

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90. "This is where I am. I ain't trying to help them erase history. "
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I wish good accurate tours were mandatory in grade school.

One of the best things I remember about middle school was them making us watch all 11 hours of Eyes on the Prize.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

  

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godleeluv
Member since Jun 11th 2013
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Mon Jul-13-15 05:20 AM

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88. "only if its to buy"
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🙋
Music is almost everything.

  

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Brownsugar
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Mon Jul-13-15 12:57 PM

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93. "Would you buy to..."
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live there or for profit??? When I was in my early 20's, I went to look for an apartment, this man was renting a 2 bedroom place. I did not rent the place but we had a long talk before me and my friend left and the one thing that I remembered this man telling me was to try to find out as much about a piece of property that you want to purchase, meaning that you should find out about as many things that happened on the property as far back as you can find out...I didn't know what he was talking about at the time, but I do believe that I know now !!!



The Revolution Will Not B Televised

  

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GirlChild
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Mon Jul-13-15 05:08 PM

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97. "i went on one in jamaica"
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i almost went on one in mauritius

it doesn't really bother me. i feel like i am so far removed from that time and those conditions. i could see how someone from say mississippi wouldnt. while that history does manifest itself today, it's a different kind of problem we have to deal with. that is what makes me sad. i choose to focus on our current situation and acknowledge our past.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Mon Jul-13-15 05:43 PM

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98. "Hell yea if you trace your ancestry there you can sue"
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.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Case_One
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Mon Jul-13-15 09:37 PM

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102. "Been there done that. Whoever says no is in denial. "
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.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."
http://share.gifyoutube.com/y0pb9p.gif

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Tue Jul-14-15 11:49 AM

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106. "Yep"
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esp aiming for michael twitty's events he holds at plantations


what i can't do is watch The Wire
i have trouble with LaToya Ruby Frazier work as well
and i can't do bull fights

i don't know until i try and then i know
went in jamaica... unfortunately there was a freak rain storm during the telling of a haunting
lightening hit a tree right outside the window
so no plantations during thunderstorms...

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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