Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #12840599

Subject: "On: The "Bernie Sanders minority voter" problem." Previous topic | Next topic
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 09:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
"On: The "Bernie Sanders minority voter" problem."


          

Everywhere I turn I see (mostly white women) commenting on how Hillary has the support of the "minority voter" - while they allege that Bernie Sanders is too pale for the white house and not a candidate for minorities. Huh?

Let's recap a few things:

-Sanders has been fighting for income equality and criminal justice reform long before Hillary ever even thought about these issues

-Sanders marched with civil rights activists and resisted segregation in 1964 while Hillary worked for Barry Goldwater's conservative campaign which largely ran on galvanizing the country *against* the Civil Rights Act

-Sanders voted against the "Defense of (traditional) Marriage Act" and fought for nationwide marriage equality in 1996. Hillary Clinton was still against gay marriage and marriage equality as of 2005.

-Sanders strongly opposed the Iraq invasion and vilification of muslims while Hillary fell in line w/ the status quo and supported the oligarchy's invasion of the middle-east.

-Sanders was the first senator to decline to attend Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's absurd speech to Congress earlier this year while Hillary Clinton was nowhere to be found, likely somewhere posturing in a political bunker waiting to calculate, calculate, calculate.

The list could go on and on....

So, as this narrative continues to get spun ad nauseum - my question is: where might they do that at?

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i have no problem with bernie, i jus dont think enough
Jun 28th 2015
1
But can Bernie Play the Sax?
Jun 28th 2015
2
^these are the real questions
Jan 12th 2016
105
Yup. It's also pathetic seeing her campaign co opt the gay marriage issu...
Jun 28th 2015
3
eh.. if obama can do it, so can she
Jun 28th 2015
4
      but as far as I remember Obama never spoke against it like her
Jun 28th 2015
6
      he's said marriage is defined as a man and a woman
Jun 28th 2015
9
           RE: he's said marriage is defined as a man and a woman
Jul 02nd 2015
34
                what exactly are you saying is not true?
Jul 02nd 2015
35
      oh, obama supported the iraqi war?
Jun 28th 2015
7
      I responded specifically to a comment about gay marriage
Jun 28th 2015
8
           yes i know - and fair point, but Hillary has never stood on strong groun...
Jun 28th 2015
11
                i dont disagree with your overall post
Jun 28th 2015
14
                     RE: i dont disagree with your overall post
Jan 17th 2016
114
      Oh for sure. Older generation of dems switched over when it was convenie...
Jun 28th 2015
10
      lol yeah. i kept thinking of the snl sketch of the biden/palin debate
Jun 28th 2015
12
      Obama support gay marriage in 1996
Jun 28th 2015
13
           10 years later he was against it
Jun 28th 2015
15
                yeah, I hated the pandering. EVERYONE knew that was BS.
Jun 29th 2015
18
Minorities just really love the Clinton name. That's all it is.
Jun 28th 2015
5
The same Clintons that sent millions of Black men to jail
Jun 28th 2015
16
      he was the first Black president
Jun 29th 2015
19
      Arsenio was that powerful.
Jun 29th 2015
27
           Wasn't that Toni Morrison's
Jul 26th 2015
45
      you could say that about every president from nixon forward
Jul 26th 2015
56
           You should read #163 and educate yourself on this issue.
Feb 11th 2016
165
                already knew that and yet we see people from that same era ...
Aug 18th 2019
198
1st candidate to say 'Black Lives Matter' w/out caveat should win imo.
Jun 28th 2015
17
keep waiting...
Jun 29th 2015
20
The country is not built on such a concept.
Jun 29th 2015
21
Yeah, because I could absolutely see Hillary say it
Jun 29th 2015
25
      Yep
Jun 29th 2015
29
      RE: Yeah, because I could absolutely see Hillary say it
Jun 29th 2015
31
I'm not entirely sure that's true tho.
Jun 29th 2015
22
RE: I'm not entirely sure that's true tho.
Jan 17th 2016
115
honestly, I don't think people really -know- Bernie Sanders
Jun 29th 2015
23
This is true, but to play D.A. Obama BUILT that machine
Jun 29th 2015
24
But has he cultivated the minority political relationships Clinton has?
Jun 29th 2015
26
Nope and very few have, shit OBAMA, didn't have that.
Jun 29th 2015
28
Isn't this ultimately the question though?
Aug 17th 2015
80
how could he cultivate relationships with orgs that are by-and-large
Jun 29th 2015
32
In Bernie Sanders, an unlikely - but real - threat to Hillary Clinton (s...
Jun 29th 2015
30
Bernie drawing historic crowds. #DatBerningFlame is real
Jul 02nd 2015
33
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-JE960_Bernie_G_201507012348...
Jul 03rd 2015
36
that's mad impressive
Jul 03rd 2015
37
might be a wrap if he gets dat #silentmajority
Jul 03rd 2015
38
Santorum drawing historic crowds as well
Jul 03rd 2015
39
      LOL
Jul 04th 2015
40
      lol do these cats have no sense of dignity?
Jul 05th 2015
42
Bernie's Revolutionary Roots Nurtured in 60's Vermont:
Jul 04th 2015
41
^ for the open-minded, well-intentioned.
Jul 25th 2015
43
The confederate flag and Goldwater, if you want to aim at HRC
Jul 25th 2015
44
Going at her for the Goldwater thing is silly imo
Jul 26th 2015
47
      yeah, no doubt. just pointing out that there is plenty of mud to sling
Jul 26th 2015
48
      Yeah, Obama beat her by keeping mudslinging to a minimum
Jul 26th 2015
49
           he went hard on Iraq... HARD!!!
Jul 26th 2015
50
                it was his ace in the hole for sure
Jul 26th 2015
51
                     You know who did have the responsibility to vote on the Iraq war?
Jul 26th 2015
53
                          That he did. Maybe he should have ran in 08
Jul 26th 2015
55
                               actually she was in college.
Jul 26th 2015
57
                                    You sound like the "Obama hates America because, Bill Ayers" crowd
Jul 26th 2015
61
                                         of course she's not a segregationist - well, not anymore at least.
Jul 26th 2015
62
      supporting a segregationist is silly, I'll give you that.
Jul 26th 2015
52
           Yes she's a manchurian candidate segregationist
Jul 26th 2015
54
                what's really fun is that you just have to go back a couple years
Jul 26th 2015
58
                     Do you ever reply to anything people actually say?
Jul 26th 2015
60
                          Lmao
Aug 09th 2015
66
Bern addresses the SCLC (swipe - let's get this back on the rails fam)
Jul 26th 2015
46
Bernie's already done more in 2 weeks than Hillary has in 20 years
Jul 26th 2015
59
lol'z
Aug 09th 2015
63
I'm going to the jawn tomorrow
Aug 09th 2015
64
      Dope. Let us know what it's like on the ground.
Aug 09th 2015
65
           Symone Sanders (c) first out the limo
Aug 11th 2015
70
                Blacks love the Clintons yo...
Aug 11th 2015
71
                did his speech give you any inspiration?
Aug 11th 2015
73
                his speech, no. THE EVENT, YES!!!
Aug 11th 2015
75
                that's what's up! Thanks for this recap
Aug 11th 2015
77
he doesnt use the social justice warrior academic lefts
Aug 10th 2015
67
exactly
Aug 10th 2015
69
Didnt he just hire the founder of #blacklivesmatter
Aug 10th 2015
68
Yup
Aug 11th 2015
72
Yes - been courting her for weeks. Symone Sanders
Aug 11th 2015
76
No, the creators of #BLM are: Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, & Opal Tom...
Aug 11th 2015
78
      word, and BLM also doesn't back candidates
Aug 17th 2015
81
mostly white women and men are ignorant by design
Aug 11th 2015
74
#feelthebern (c) I am not my hair
Aug 17th 2015
79
Right now I feel like Lessig is closer to my politics than Bernie
Aug 18th 2015
82
Cornell stumping for Bern (vid)
Sep 17th 2015
83
Bernie's support among non-white voters is currently very low *link*
Sep 17th 2015
84
LOL @ "#AllLivesMatter" Clinton getting 84%+ of the black vote in S.C.
Oct 13th 2015
85
CNN had their pitchforks out, trying to put Bern in the NRA's pocket
Oct 14th 2015
86
Thats the problem with Bernie, he's full of rhetoric but out of touch...
Oct 14th 2015
87
      yeah, his campaign is completely out of touch with reality
Oct 14th 2015
88
           he talks a good game, can he get enough partisan support to get any...
Oct 14th 2015
89
                LOL@you thinking any of these other candidates would be different
Oct 14th 2015
90
                     RE: LOL@you thinking any of these other candidates would be different
Oct 14th 2015
91
                     My vote is not a strategy
Oct 14th 2015
92
                          RE: My vote is not a strategy
Oct 14th 2015
93
                     Bernie is too "pie in the sky", he's all like "I'm going to right every....
Oct 14th 2015
95
                          it's beyond sad that the one principled candidate
Nov 24th 2015
97
not surprised. Though they did pull HARD for Obama.
Oct 14th 2015
94
Hillary supports prison-industrial complex/wall st.; Bern dines at Busy ...
Nov 23rd 2015
96
Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa
Jan 11th 2016
98
Lets hope it lasts.
Jan 11th 2016
99
RE: Lets hope it lasts.
Jan 12th 2016
101
      RE: Lets hope it lasts.
Jan 12th 2016
102
RE: Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa
Jan 12th 2016
100
RE: Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa
Jan 12th 2016
103
RE: Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa
Jan 12th 2016
104
NH Iowa are weird..can't just go by their vote & translate to election.....
Jan 17th 2016
109
      RE: NH Iowa are weird..can't just go by their vote & translate to electi...
Jan 17th 2016
110
           Obama is more special than Bernie, right?
Jan 17th 2016
111
                RE: Obama is more special than Bernie, right?
Jan 17th 2016
112
                     RE: Obama is more special than Bernie, right?
Jan 17th 2016
118
                          RE: Obama is more special than Bernie, right?
Jan 17th 2016
121
                               January 2008, were you an Obama supporter?
Jan 17th 2016
122
                                    RE: January 2008, were you an Obama supporter?
Jan 21st 2016
130
RE: Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa
Jan 12th 2016
106
      I think he would lose the general
Jan 12th 2016
107
      RE: I think he would lose the general
Jan 12th 2016
108
      RE: "Where Do I Start?"
Jan 17th 2016
113
           horrible.
Jan 17th 2016
116
It's quite possible that the black & latino vote could determine this
Jan 17th 2016
117
RE: It's quite possible that the black & latino vote could determine...
Jan 17th 2016
119
RE: It's quite possible that the black & latino vote could determine...
Jan 17th 2016
123
      RE: It's quite possible that the black & latino vote could d...
Jan 17th 2016
127
I decided I was voting for Bernie when BLM tried to sabotage his
Jan 17th 2016
120
      It was embarrassing.
Jan 17th 2016
124
Anybody realize there is a debate tonight?
Jan 17th 2016
125
People are actually going to watch this one, I think.
Jan 17th 2016
126
fascinating how Clinton *still* polls at 70-80% re: non-white vote
Jan 21st 2016
128
Yah
Jan 21st 2016
129
RE: fascinating how Clinton *still* polls at 70-80% re: non-white vote
Jan 21st 2016
131
Bill got the juice
Jan 21st 2016
132
Killer Mike countering Coates was extraordinarily big-bodied:
Jan 21st 2016
133
David Brock? lol. Hill-dog's pandering is shameful.
Jan 23rd 2016
134
Agreed.
Jan 23rd 2016
135
Michelle Alexander on Hillary Clinton's Embrace of Mass Incarceration
Jan 31st 2016
136
This is all that matters.....
Jan 31st 2016
137
Bernie panicking? (SWIPE)
Jan 31st 2016
138
lol did you get that swipe from (CNN) Clinton News Network?
Jan 31st 2016
139
RE: lol did you get that swipe from (CNN) Clinton News Network?
Jan 31st 2016
142
Hillary supports policies that have harmed millions of POC+women
Jan 31st 2016
140
RE: Hillary supports policies that have harmed millions of POC+women
Jan 31st 2016
141
so someone asked a question and he said 3 critical words
Jan 31st 2016
143
      3 critical words that aren't true
Jan 31st 2016
144
           we can't acknowledge she did something stupid?
Jan 31st 2016
153
           RE: Republican
Jan 31st 2016
155
Krugman: Bernie Bros buying into the right-wing smear machine.
Jan 31st 2016
145
Berniebros like Michelle Alexander?
Jan 31st 2016
146
RE: Berniebros like Michelle Alexander?
Jan 31st 2016
147
Wrong. I was critiquing your title.
Jan 31st 2016
149
No, you were trivializing, missing the point, and jumping to conclusions...
Jan 31st 2016
150
      Wrong again
Jan 31st 2016
154
      Sure.
Jan 31st 2016
157
           I disagree with all your points, but I'm tired of this debate
Jan 31st 2016
158
      RE: No, you were trivializing, missing the point, and jumping to conclus...
Jan 31st 2016
160
This.
Feb 01st 2016
161
RE: Berniebros like Michelle Alexander?
Jan 31st 2016
159
lol k.
Jan 31st 2016
148
      There's nothing wrong with being a cynic, as long as you're right.
Jan 31st 2016
151
           He was dead wrong about Obama and free-trade globalization.
Jan 31st 2016
152
                What a surprise that The Nation would oversimplify that issue.
Jan 31st 2016
156
                     Oh, that's what you think Michelle Alexander did?
Feb 11th 2016
164
lol @ the CBC.
Feb 11th 2016
162
Hillary Clinton Does Not Deserve the Black Vote (Alexander)
Feb 11th 2016
163
John Lewis on Bernie vs. Clinton Civil Rights activism (vid)
Feb 12th 2016
166
Where she was: campaigning for a far-right segregationist
Feb 12th 2016
167
RE: John Lewis on Bernie vs. Clinton Civil Rights activism (vid)
Feb 12th 2016
168
Shaun King is ripping John Lewis apart on Facebook
Feb 12th 2016
169
He also supported Hillary against Obama
Feb 12th 2016
170
he did... until he didn't
Feb 12th 2016
179
I'm mad this isnt gaining more traction
Feb 12th 2016
181
Have you read this?
Feb 12th 2016
182
      its beautiful
Feb 12th 2016
183
I don't trust any of these old civil rights cats with anything.
Feb 13th 2016
184
This has become much clearer to me and it's pretty simple.
Feb 12th 2016
171
Even though she race-baited him in 2008
Feb 12th 2016
172
RE: Even though she race-baited him in 2008
Feb 12th 2016
173
      Bernie does best with younger black voters
Feb 12th 2016
174
           Hmmmm..
Feb 12th 2016
175
                The best analysis I've seen is from Glen Ford...
Feb 12th 2016
176
                     Good read.
Feb 12th 2016
177
More like Obama administrations was an extension of the Clintons
Feb 12th 2016
178
      Nah. I don't think so
Feb 12th 2016
180
It's amazing how bad Clinton is at this #NotASuperPredator
Feb 25th 2016
185
Clinton got 85% of the black vote on Super Tuesday
Mar 02nd 2016
186
I knew he'd have trouble. But I didn't expect this much trouble
Mar 02nd 2016
187
      He's not a Democrat and was never going to win for that alone
Mar 03rd 2016
188
      Yup. He seems disconnected. It's not his fault though
Mar 03rd 2016
189
           other thing is that there's a pragmatism to black voting.
Mar 03rd 2016
190
                RE: other thing is that there's a pragmatism to black voting.
Mar 03rd 2016
191
                ^wisdom that bore itself out later
Mar 06th 2020
206
this post started a year ago - finally there is a shift.
Apr 01st 2016
192
Clinton support collapsing among non-white voters (daily kos)
Apr 01st 2016
193
i'm still like him
Aug 16th 2019
194
lol vex you gotta come back and explain yourself lmao.
Aug 16th 2019
195
explain what?
Aug 16th 2019
196
a major related thing he did was revamp his campaign with poc
Aug 16th 2019
197
      howd that go?
Mar 05th 2020
202
"The Quiet Death of the Bernie Bro Attack"
Aug 20th 2019
199
it's always been a generational thing (mostly) which is hilarious af
Aug 21st 2019
200
Yes - in 2016 the generational demographics were fascinating
Aug 22nd 2019
201
decent post but Obama is considered from Chicago
Mar 05th 2020
203
yikes i hope this wasnt said as a positive thing
Mar 06th 2020
205
      of course it is.
Mar 06th 2020
207
           you gotta give this shit up
Mar 06th 2020
208
           ^^^ YOU NAH TEEEEE (c)
Mar 06th 2020
209
                oh now you want people to be nice instead of honest
Mar 06th 2020
213
           imagine stanning for the man who destroyed the uk labor party
Mar 06th 2020
210
☺️☺️
Mar 06th 2020
204
      RE: ☺️☺️
Mar 06th 2020
211
           Thats alot of won votes for someone who lost
Mar 06th 2020
212
                lol
Aug 19th 2020
214
                Sure is; +1,000 delegates. But it illustrates how Bernie never had
Aug 19th 2020
215
                     not sure why this is upped but repackage Bernie as a younger version...
Aug 19th 2020
216
                          Fair - and we do have younger people rising up to carry the baton
Aug 19th 2020
217
                               RE: Fair - and we do have younger people rising up to carry the baton
Aug 19th 2020
218
                                    uh, nothing you say negated what he said
Aug 19th 2020
219
                                         RE: uh, nothing you say negated what he said
Aug 20th 2020
220

LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 09:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "i have no problem with bernie, i jus dont think enough"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people will get on board in time enough for him to win...the clinton name is strong amongst minorities not saying its right..but it is what it is..plus the whole female thing...in many cases...thats all she really needs....he is going to have to market himself a whole lot more..like do some sangin in a black church after stating his policies

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

OrangeandBlue
Member since Nov 02nd 2006
10198 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 09:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
2. "But can Bernie Play the Sax?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

or smash mad bitches on the regular?

No

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
illEskoBar221
Member since Oct 18th 2004
8453 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 05:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
105. "^these are the real questions"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

_____________________________

<----- Genesis is deep my features are that of a God


http://illeskobar.deviantart.com/
http://thisiskyleskorner.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32091 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 12:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "Yup. It's also pathetic seeing her campaign co opt the gay marriage issu..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Bitch please. You just started supporting this a few years ago

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 01:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "eh.. if obama can do it, so can she"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

they all "evolved" when it was safe

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
56697 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 01:53 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "but as far as I remember Obama never spoke against it like her"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1-r1YgK9I he just didnt pick a side.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 03:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "he's said marriage is defined as a man and a woman"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

that god defines marriage
that marriage is not a civil right

though he didn't support a constitutional amendment defining marriage. and supported civil unions. she went a bit harder, but i don't think they were far off.

they came out of the closet (so to speak) when it was politically safer. and he appointed the justices who made this possible, but i don't have much resason to believe she would have appointed conservative justices

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Tiggerific
Member since May 24th 2007
13451 posts
Thu Jul-02-15 08:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "RE: he's said marriage is defined as a man and a woman"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Nah, not true. There was a secret tape before his first presidency (I think) where he talked about how he does support gay marriage but America wasn't ready for all that.

"We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents" - Bob Ross

"I'm wearing a MSU Tshirt because I went to MSU, you are wearing a UM Tshirt because you went to Walmart!" -unknown.

http://bjsquirrelchronicles.blogspot.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Thu Jul-02-15 11:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "what exactly are you saying is not true?"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

>Nah, not true

He didn't say those things? It's not really hard to find.

There was a secret tape before his first
>presidency (I think) where he talked about how he does support
>gay marriage but America wasn't ready for all that.
>

Just because there's a secret tape saying he said those things out of political necessity doesn't change that he said them. As pointed out below, he spoke out for gay marriage back in 96. I have little doubt that he's always been fine with it. But that doesn't change that he spoke publicly against it as late as 2008.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 02:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
7. "oh, obama supported the iraqi war?"
In response to Reply # 4


          

obama worked to delay/stunt the Civil Rights Act?

let i know.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 03:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "I responded specifically to a comment about gay marriage"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

thanks for playing though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 04:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
11. "yes i know - and fair point, but Hillary has never stood on strong groun..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

Bernie has.

That's the point here.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 04:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "i dont disagree with your overall post"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Bernie's a liberal. Hillary's a democrat

Still don't think he has a chance in hell even though i'm voting for him.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
114. "RE: i dont disagree with your overall post"
In response to Reply # 14


          

>Bernie's a liberal. Hillary's a democrat
>
>Still don't think he has a chance in hell even though i'm
>voting for him.

still feel that way?

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32091 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 04:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "Oh for sure. Older generation of dems switched over when it was convenie..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 04:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "lol yeah. i kept thinking of the snl sketch of the biden/palin debate"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Biden: under an Obama Biden administration, gay couples will be guaranteed the same rights as heterosexual couples. There will be no distinction. i repeat. no distinction.

Moderator: So do clarify, do you support gay marriage Senator?

Biden: Absolutely not!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 04:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "Obama support gay marriage in 1996"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Lets not forget this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 04:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "10 years later he was against it"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

that's politics for ya

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 07:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
18. "yeah, I hated the pandering. EVERYONE knew that was BS."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

I wish "those voters" could just be irrelevant

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 01:48 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
5. "Minorities just really love the Clinton name. That's all it is. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 06:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "The same Clintons that sent millions of Black men to jail"
In response to Reply # 5


          

on minor drug offences in their heyday.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79544 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 08:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "he was the first Black president"
In response to Reply # 16


          

always hated that shit^^^

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 03:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
27. "Arsenio was that powerful. "
In response to Reply # 19


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
RS
Charter member
1260 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 12:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "Wasn't that Toni Morrison's "
In response to Reply # 27


          

Label? And the reason why it stuck? (If the author of "beloved" "song of Solomon" "the bluest eye", etc calls him that, who's gonna question it?)

I remeber being pissed at her for years for that.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 09:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "you could say that about every president from nixon forward"
In response to Reply # 16
Sun Jul-26-15 09:41 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

certainly from reagan forward.

obeezy is the only one lifting a finger and he ain't lifting it that high.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
SP1200
Charter member
20101 posts
Thu Feb-11-16 11:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
165. "You should read #163 and educate yourself on this issue."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

I'll start you here:

"Bill Clinton presided over the largest increase in federal and state prison inmates of any president in American history.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Aug-18-19 06:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
198. "already knew that and yet we see people from that same era ..."
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

owning the DNC. HRC, Biden, etc. Which brings us back to my original point, that no one in power gives or has ever given a fuck. Hopefully that will change but history tells us no.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Sun Jun-28-15 07:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "1st candidate to say 'Black Lives Matter' w/out caveat should win imo."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Nobody has done that yet, so I'll wait lol.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 09:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "keep waiting..."
In response to Reply # 17


          

>Nobody has done that yet, so I'll wait lol.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 09:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "The country is not built on such a concept. "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 02:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "Yeah, because I could absolutely see Hillary say it"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

but it will absolutely be followed by "and brown lives matter and yellow lives matter, and white lives matter.. ALL LIVES MATTER!" *applause*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44257 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 07:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Jay Doz
Member since Dec 13th 2005
8663 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 10:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
31. "RE: Yeah, because I could absolutely see Hillary say it"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Grand opening:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/17/clinton-rips-use-torture-says-black-lives-matter/

Grand closing:
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/24/417112956/hillary-clintons-three-word-gaffe-all-lives-matter

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44257 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 12:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "I'm not entirely sure that's true tho."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Clinton has an edge, of course, this is still politics and name recognition is important - but it ain't anywhere NEAR as sowed up as they're portraying. I think Bernie's got a shot a fair share of the black electorate, given he takes teh right positions.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 01:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
115. "RE: I'm not entirely sure that's true tho."
In response to Reply # 22


          

>Clinton has an edge, of course, this is still politics and
>name recognition is important - but it ain't anywhere NEAR as
>sowed up as they're portraying. I think Bernie's got a shot a
>fair share of the black electorate, given he takes teh right
>positions.

well done.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 01:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
23. "honestly, I don't think people really -know- Bernie Sanders"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

except politics junkies like "us"

of course, the same could have been said about Obama when he ran
but I think he had more of a "machine" behind him.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44257 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 01:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "This is true, but to play D.A. Obama BUILT that machine"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Bernie could do that too.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10884 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 02:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "But has he cultivated the minority political relationships Clinton has?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Almost by necessity, Clinton has had to cater to minority voters more than Bernie mostly because NY is much more diverse than Vermont, which is 95% white. That means she's built lasting political relationships with minority groups that Bernie hasn't had to.

I think THAT is his "minority voter problem". He may have been involved in his youth and his heart and platform may be in the right place, but who's vouching for him in minority communities?

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44257 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 03:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "Nope and very few have, shit OBAMA, didn't have that."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

but ultimately it didn't matter. Now, obviously Bernie won't have every advantage Obeezy did, and he shouldn't - but I truly do believe that if he were to start addressing our concerns, in his typical, irrascible, no-nonsense way, he could have a shot.

Still don't know what's going to happen w/Uncle Joe, tho.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10884 posts
Mon Aug-17-15 07:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "Isn't this ultimately the question though?"
In response to Reply # 28
Mon Aug-17-15 07:15 PM by Cocobrotha2

          

>if he were to start addressing our
>concerns, in his typical, irrascible, no-nonsense way, he
>could have a shot.


His assertions on racial justice on his campaign website after the BLM event were certainly encouraging but don't seem to have moved the needle with black voters quite yet.

I'm a bit skeptical of the Bernie platform because his primary focus on economic justice won't necessarily help us unless racial justice is an equally high priority. I believe he's very serious about economic justice and, ideally, everyone would benefit equally (more or less)... but we know from experience, that won't be the case for black people (or some other minorities) if the justice isn't dispensed equally.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
samsara
Member since Sep 15th 2002
3464 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 10:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "how could he cultivate relationships with orgs that are by-and-large"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

no longer progressive on many important issues

the orgs that confer mainstream political clout have built on top of formerly grassroots organizing by taking funding from all kinds of corporate power for the promise of "diversity" in hiring and when the orgs could be taking progressive stances those chips are called in by their corporate sponsors

see: net neutrality/comcast/naacp debacle


"i fear no fate" e.e. cummings
"No girl. No fried chicken. I'm going back to get some sleep." - Haruki Murakami

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Mon Jun-29-15 09:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "In Bernie Sanders, an unlikely - but real - threat to Hillary Clinton (s..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-20150628-story.html#page=1

In Bernie Sanders, an unlikely - but real - threat to Hillary Clinton
By John Wagner and Anne Gearan
Washington Post
June 28, 2015, 9:09 PM Rochester, NH

At the first glimpse of the rumpled 73-year-old senator from Vermont, the standing-room-only crowd at a historic inn here on Sunday morning erupted — leaping up, waving signs and breaking into chants of "Bernie, Bernie, Bernie!"

The scene has become a familiar one as Bernie Sanders makes a most unexpected surge in his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Sanders — a self-described democratic socialist — has seen his crowds swell and is gaining ground in the polls on the formidable Democratic front-runner, Hillary Rodham Clinton. In New Hampshire, where Sanders was on yet another weekend swing, one survey last week showed him within 8 percentage points of Clinton.

Sanders's emerging strength has exposed continued misgivings among the party's progressive base about Clinton, whose team is treading carefully in its public statements. Supporters have acknowledged privately the potential for Sanders to damage her — perhaps winning an early state or two — even if he can't win the nomination.

"He's connecting in a way that Hillary Clinton is not," said Burt Cohen, a former New Hampshire state senator and Sanders supporter who attended Sunday morning's event, where a nasty rain didn't seem to deter many people from coming. "He's talking about things people want to hear. People are used to candidates who are calculated, produced and measured, and they see through that. Bernie's different."

During his hourlong stump speech here, Sanders railed against the "billionaire class" and pledged to make large corporations pay their fair share of taxes if he becomes president. But much of his message focused on improving the lot of the lower and middle classes — by providing free college; guaranteeing workers vacation time, sick leave and family leave; and raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

"I don't believe it is a terribly radical idea to say that someone who works 40 hours a week should not be living in poverty," Sanders told a crowd of about 300 people.

For all the excitement surrounding his grass-roots effort, Sanders still faces significant skepticism from party elites — and even from some of his supporters — about whether he can advance beyond being a summer sensation. Some suggest he could fade as voters think more seriously about who they want as their nominee, and even Sanders acknowledges that money could become an issue once the contest moves to bigger states, where television advertising is more essential.

Sanders also has said that his campaign has a lot of work to do to connect with minority voters. Although he has a long history on civil rights, Sanders represents a state that is 95 percent white, and he remains largely unknown among African-Americans — a crucial constituency in South Carolina and other states on the primary calendar following Iowa and New Hampshire.

Ultimately, Sanders's fate may rest with voters like Beth Powers, who sat in the bleachers on Saturday at a Nashua community college gymnasium, where Sanders kicked off his seven-stop Granite State swing before a crowd of more than 500 people.

"I love Hillary, but I like that fact that Bernie is a populist, and he's saying a lot of important things," said Powers, 48, a high school teacher in nearby Milford who started learning about Sanders on Facebook through postings by friends and liberal media sites she follows.

Powers said she's leaning toward Sanders but admitted being a little torn: "I'm a realist. In terms of money and networking, he's got some real ground to make up. If people like me don't come out for him, he doesn't have a chance."

Nathan Retelle, who was sitting nearby, was perhaps more representative of those in the gym. His mind is firmly made up.

"I've never been able to vote for anybody before who I actually wanted to win," said Retelle, 30, who works in the health-care information-technology field and drove to the event from Methuen, Massachusetts. "For the longest time, it's been different politicians doing only slightly different things."

Retelle said he sees Clinton as "a fully entrenched creature of the political establishment. My impression is she'll say whatever she needs to say at the moment."

Clinton's advisers had long planned for a populist challenge from her left, perhaps from Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass. Sanders appears to be the heir to populist support for Warren, who took herself out of the race before Clinton entered it in April. Sanders routinely praises Warren in his stump speech.

Some Clinton supporters had months ago identified former Maryland governor Martin O'Malley as the potential challenger with the greatest appeal. Although O'Malley — who campaigned in Iowa on Sunday — is running as a populist to Clinton's left, he is polling far behind Sanders and still working to introduce himself to voters.

The Clinton campaign declined to discuss Sanders's candidacy on the record, but the strategy is plain: She will not attack him — she has yet to mention him on the campaign trail — and will stick to her plan to roll out her policy agenda in phases this summer.

Clinton loyalists note that she has taken liberal positions on issues including immigration reform, voting rights and same-sex marriage, and is expected to follow suit with proposals affecting college affordability and student debt, raising the minimum wage and expanding paid leave.

Clinton's focus on race relations and gun control since the Charleston, South Carolina, massacre also provides an implicit comparison with Sanders, who has no broad base of support among African-Americans in large urban areas and the South. Clinton also has called for national gun control, while supporters pointed out Sanders's uneven record on the issue.

The Clinton campaign is betting that as she builds a progressive platform, Sanders's appeal will wane — at least among those attracted to him primarily because of his ideological credentials. Sanders supporters drawn more by distaste for a Clinton coronation may be a different story.

One prominent Clinton booster, Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., appeared to dismiss Sanders as a flash in the pan during a television appearance last week.

"Any other candidate that has the numbers that Hillary Clinton has right now would be, you know, talked about as absolutely untouchable, and all of a sudden, 'Oh, Bernie, Bernie, Bernie,' " McCaskill said on Thursday on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

"It's not unusual for someone who has an extreme message to have a following," she said.

In an interview over the weekend, Sanders said some in Washington have misjudged the potential breadth of his support and are wrongly suggesting that his appeal is limited to liberal activists.

"The truth is, the vast majority of the voters in this country are middle-class and working-class people," Sanders said. "I think the vast majority of those people are totally frustrated with a political system in which big money buys elections, and they're totally disgusted with our country's economics. . . . If we can get through to those people, not only will we win the Democratic nomination, we're going to win the general election as well."

Sanders said part of his appeal will be the consistency of his record on issues on which others are now sounding a lot like him.

During his appearances over the weekend, for example, he brought up the Supreme Court's decision on Friday making same-sex marriage legal in all 50 states — a ruling that Clinton and the other Democrats touted.

In the same breath, Sanders also repeatedly cited his 1996 vote in Congress against the Defense of Marriage Act, a law signed by President Bill Clinton, which defined marriage for federal purposes as the union of one man and one woman and allowed states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages granted by other states.

"It is one thing now for every politician in the world, at least on the Democratic side, to be wildly enthusiastic about gay rights," Sanders said. "That wasn't the case back in 1996. . . . You can come up with any position you want today, but people have a right to know: Have you been consistent?"

---

Gearan reported from Washington.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Jul-02-15 06:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
33. "Bernie drawing historic crowds. #DatBerningFlame is real"
In response to Reply # 0


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79544 posts
Fri Jul-03-15 08:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-JE960_Bernie_G_201507012348..."
In response to Reply # 33


          

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-JE960_Bernie_G_20150701234815.jpg

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Fri Jul-03-15 10:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "that's mad impressive"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-JE960_Bernie_G_20150701234815.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Fri Jul-03-15 10:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "might be a wrap if he gets dat #silentmajority"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Fri Jul-03-15 10:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "Santorum drawing historic crowds as well"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

http://www.mediaite.com/online/poor-santorum-only-4-people-showed-up-to-recent-iowa-campaign-stop/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
MME
Charter member
11940 posts
Sat Jul-04-15 10:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>http://www.mediaite.com/online/poor-santorum-only-4-people-showed-up-to-recent-iowa-campaign-stop/

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jul-05-15 01:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. "lol do these cats have no sense of dignity?"
In response to Reply # 39


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sat Jul-04-15 11:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
41. "Bernie's Revolutionary Roots Nurtured in 60's Vermont:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

#TheDeepNorth

Bernie Sanders's Revolutionary Roots were Nurtured in 60's Vermont:

"In “Reflections on a Dying Society,” Berine Sanders declared that the United States was virtually going to hell in a handcart. Its food was laden with chemicals; its environment was being ruined; the threat of nuclear annihilation or “death by poison gas” was increasing; people were suffering from malaise and “psychosomatic disease”; citizens were being coerced and duped by the government and the advertising industry; and the economy was based on “useless” goods “designed to break down or used for the slaughter of people.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/04/us/politics/bernie-sanderss-revolutionary-roots-were-nurtured-in-60s-vermont.html

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sat Jul-25-15 11:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
43. "^ for the open-minded, well-intentioned. "
In response to Reply # 0


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sat Jul-25-15 11:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "The confederate flag and Goldwater, if you want to aim at HRC"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-25-15 11:17 AM by bentagain

  

          

IDK if Bern and his campaign want to start throwing shots

and I'm sure it's easy to deflect being that HRC was in HS when she was involved with Goldwater's campaign

and was only Bill's wife when he designated the star in the ARK state flag as recognition of the confederate states

but it would, at least put some heat on her ass

and there's plenty of ammo for slinging mud at HRC

IRT the minority vote

I'm just not sure how he does that without still looking like a curmudgeon

as I said in your other post

I think Bern has an image problem

for those voters that don't know his resume

he just looks like an old white guy (another old white guy)

short of pulling a Cornell West, i.e. showing up to a demonstration, I didn't come here to talk, I came here to get arrested

regurgitating the same stump speech while screaming, look at all that I've done for you people

isn't going to win him any votes

especially not when there is a movement going on right now

that he appears to not notice.

do you think he even knows about #berniesoblack

https://twitter.com/hashtag/berniesoblack

?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 12:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "Going at her for the Goldwater thing is silly imo"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

it's something she could so easily flip into a positive. how she was a young conservative, and raised as such but saw through their bullshit as she entered young adulthood, and how she was changed, and shaped by the progressive movements of the 60s

or some goofy joke about how we all experimented when we were young.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 02:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "yeah, no doubt. just pointing out that there is plenty of mud to sling"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

those would be 2 of the most obvious IRT the context of the minority vote and recent headlines

^^^ with the 15 minute news cycle you really have to strike while the iron is hot

I honestly think it would be worse for Bern to do it himself

maybe he can get another candidate to bring out Hillary's skeletons

it's more of cumulative effect

I'm sure she can spin any issue raised

but after awhile, it will just look like spin

the increase in mass incarceration under Bill will definitely be a talking point

has she offered an explanation for that one yet

I know Bill just flat out said he was wrong

and that she's made mass incarceration a talking point in her campaign

but has she been held to fire for her role yet?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 03:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "Yeah, Obama beat her by keeping mudslinging to a minimum"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

and just snatching up all the energy. he had the iraq thing, and went on a little bit about NAFTA, but he mostly just focused on himself, and let her implode. She reacted with what pretty much amounted to tantrums, and lectures. her sense of entitlement turned alot of people off, but even with all that, he barely beat her.

Bernie probably just needs to keep doing his thing, and see how much thunder he can steal. Still I don't think think she's dumb enough to fall into the same trap she did in 08.

I don't even know how much mileage he'd get out of going in on Bill's record. There's def a lot there, but Democrats love the shit out of Bill Clinton. Plus Dem primaries aren't the true believer litmus tests that Republican primaries are. She doesn't have to try to prove she's more liberal, or as liberal as Bernie. Everyone knows she's not. She just needs to prove she's liberal enough, and electable.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79544 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 04:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "he went hard on Iraq... HARD!!!"
In response to Reply # 49


          

That shit killed her chances... she had no response to it. We were tired of that war and OBAMA kept her on defense. Shit was awesome

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 05:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "it was his ace in the hole for sure"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

it gave him the best chance of distinguishing himself because they were so similar on policy. she couldn't do anything but admit she was wrong, or try to point out that he didn't have the actual responsibility of voting for/against the invasion. wasn't nearly enough though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 06:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
53. "You know who did have the responsibility to vote on the Iraq war?"
In response to Reply # 51
Sun Jul-26-15 06:34 PM by Vex_id

          

and had the requisite wisdom to call it out for what it was - *at the time* it was happening?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ySJLIc5BJM

Trick you guessed it....you was right!

she couldn't do anything but
>admit she was wrong, or try to point out that he didn't have
>the actual responsibility of voting for/against the invasion.
>wasn't nearly enough though.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 07:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "That he did. Maybe he should have ran in 08"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

He could have got more mileage out of it then.

He should absolutely continue to bring it up though. It's more legit than what she did in 10th grade.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 10:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
57. "actually she was in college."
In response to Reply # 55


          

but clearly you're #ReadyForHillary

She's already got the Mynorti vote on lock - so you're doing a great job.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 11:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "You sound like the "Obama hates America because, Bill Ayers" crowd"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Do you think Hillary's a secret segregationist? Judging from your other embarrassing post you probably do.

>but clearly you're #ReadyForHillary
>
>She's already got the Mynorti vote on lock - so you're doing a
>great job.

Yeah, that's cute. Anyone who doesn't think think Hillary is a segregationist Nazi must must be a staunch supporter. Carry on, dude.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 11:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
62. "of course she's not a segregationist - well, not anymore at least."
In response to Reply # 61


          

That said, not much has changed about Hillary Clinton as it pertains to her political fluctuations. She's not principled - and is often on the wrong side of the debate (whether it's marriage equality, iraqi war invasion, horrible trade agreements, or being corrupted by Wall St. and Corporate campaign finance).

Her undying support for a segregationist as a young adult was just the beginning of her political shortcomings and lack of wisdom.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 06:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
52. "supporting a segregationist is silly, I'll give you that."
In response to Reply # 47


          

but once again you're missing the point. Hillary has been ALL OVER the board, on civil rights, marriage equality, structural racism, military-industrail complex, criminal justice, the Iraq war - you name it - she has not stood on sturdy ground.

Sanders has been rock-solid consistent on all the major issues, yet we have to stomach through apologist rationalizations like "oh she learned from her segregationist days."

She hasn't, but spin away.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 07:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "Yes she's a manchurian candidate segregationist"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

It's all been part of the plan

But hey, if you think it's a winning strategy to defeat her by focusing on her being a republican 50 years ago in high school, have fun with that.

>but once again you're missing the point.

No. once again, i addressed one specific thing, and you chose to bring up a bunch of other shit i wasn't talking about.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 10:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
58. "what's really fun is that you just have to go back a couple years "
In response to Reply # 54
Sun Jul-26-15 10:43 PM by Vex_id

          

to expose her wishy-washy flimsy political foundation - but that would require an actual accurate political accounting.

And who wants to do all that substantive stuff when we can just #hashtag it out?

#BernieSoConsistent

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 11:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "Do you ever reply to anything people actually say?"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

>to expose her wishy-washy flimsy political foundation - but
>that would require an actual accurate political accounting.
>
>And who wants to do all that substantive stuff when we can
>just #hashtag it out?
>
>#BernieSoConsistent
>
>-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32091 posts
Sun Aug-09-15 04:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "Lmao "
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 12:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "Bern addresses the SCLC (swipe - let's get this back on the rails fam)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I still think he should've showed up in CLE this weekend, but this is definitely a good start

and like I said, there's still +1 year in this campaign cycle

looks like there's a couple of additions before he gets into the same stump speech

https://berniesanders.com/remarks-senator-sanders-southern-christian-leadership-conference/

Remarks by Senator Sanders at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference
JULY 25, 2015
Twitter Facebook Email Link
Thank you for inviting me to be with you tonight. Thank you for the work you continue to do as leaders in civil rights. You have always been a voice for the voiceless and champions for social justice.

Your courageous history dates back to the Montgomery Bus Boycott when one person, Rosa Parks, by the simple act of sitting down at the front of the bus, inspired a whole community to stand up and bring the transportation system in Montgomery to its knees, to capture the imagination of the nation and to cause what my friend John Lewis calls “a nonviolent revolution.”

You knew then, what the American people are beginning to remember now – that real change takes place when millions of people stand up and say “enough is enough,” and when we create a political revolution from the ground up. That is what the Southern Christian Leadership Conference has always been about. That is what is beginning to happen today. The American people are sick and tired with establishment politics, with establishment economics and with establishment media. They’re sick of being told that they don’t matter. They fully understand that corporate greed is destroying our economy, that American politics is now dominated by a handful of billionaires and that much of the corporate media is prepared to discuss everything except the most important issues facing our country.

I realize that many of you don’t know me very well. So let me take a moment to let you know a little bit about my background. I was mayor of Burlington, Vermont, from 1981-1989, Vermont’s lone congressman from 1990-2006 and a U.S. senator from Vermont from 2007 until today.

I was born in Brooklyn, New York. My father came to this country from Poland at the age of 17 without a penny in his pocket and without much of an education. My mother graduated from high school in New York City. My father worked for almost his entire life as a paint salesman and we lived with my brother in a small rent-controlled apartment. My mother’s dream was to move out of that three-room apartment into a home of our own. She died young and her dream was never fulfilled. As a kid I learned what lack of money means to a family, a lesson I have never forgotten.

​When I was a young college student, I came to Washington, D.C., to participate in the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. I heard this organization’s first president, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., deliver his famous speech, and he inspired me, just as he inspired a whole generation – black and white – to get involved in the civil rights movement. In Chicago, I worked for housing desegregation and was arrested protesting public school segregation. During that time I was active in what was a sister-organization to the SCLC, the Congress of Racial Equality of CORE, which was headed up by the late James Farmer.

Since I have been an elected official, I have used my influence to stand with those who have no power, and to take on virtually every element of our current ruling class – from Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies to Big Energy, to the Koch Brothers to the Military Industrial Complex. That’s what I do.

The decision to run for president was a very difficult one for me and my family. I love my job as Vermont’s senator and love spending time in Vermont with my four kids and seven beautiful grandchildren – something, needless to say, that I am less able to do today.

My family and I decided that I should run for president because the reality is that this country today faces more serious problems than at any time since the Great Depression and, if you include the planetary crisis of climate change, it may well be that the challenges we face now are more dire than any time in our modern history. And to address these crises we need leadership that is prepared to rally the American people, to create the political revolution that this country desperately needs, to take on the wealthy special interests that wield so much power.

Let me take this opportunity to quote from an excellent article by the columnist Eugene Robinson which appeared in the Washington Post. Here are some excerpts from that article:

As we celebrate King’s great achievement and sacrifice, it is wrong to round off the sharp edges of his legacy. He saw inequality as a fundamental and tragic flaw in this society, and he made clear in the weeks leading up to his assassination that economic issues were becoming the central focus of his advocacy.

Nearly five decades later, King’s words on the subject still ring true. On March 10, 1968, just weeks before his death, he spoke to a union group in New York about what he called “the other America.” He was preparing to launch a Poor People’s Campaign whose premise was that issues of jobs and issues of justice were inextricably intertwined.

“One America is flowing with the milk of prosperity and the honey of equality,” King said. “That America is the habitat of millions of people who have food and material necessities for their bodies, culture and education for their minds, freedom and human dignity for their spirits. . . . But as we assemble here tonight, I’m sure that each of us is painfully aware of the fact that there is another America, and that other America has a daily ugliness about it that transforms the buoyancy of hope into the fatigue of despair.”

Those who lived in the other America, King said, were plagued by “inadequate, substandard and often dilapidated housing conditions,” by “substandard, inferior, quality-less schools,” by having to choose between unemployment and low-wage jobs that didn’t even pay enough to put food on the table.

The problem was structural, King said: “This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.”

Eight days later, speaking in Memphis, King continued the theme. “Do you know that most of the poor people in our country are working every day?” he asked striking sanitation workers. “And they are making wages so low that they cannot begin to function in the mainstream of the economic life of our nation. These are facts which must be seen, and it is criminal to have people working on a full-time basis and a full-time job getting part-time income.”

King explained the shift in his focus: “Now our struggle is for genuine equality, which means economic equality. For we know that it isn’t enough to integrate lunch counters. What does it profit a man to be able to eat at an integrated lunch counter if he doesn’t earn enough money to buy a hamburger and a cup of coffee?”

But what King saw in 1968 — and what we all should recognize today — is that it is useless to try to address race without also taking on the larger issue of inequality. He was planning a poor people’s march on Washington that would include not only African-Americans but also Latinos, Native Americans and poor Appalachian whites. He envisioned a rainbow of the dispossessed, assembled to demand not just an end to discrimination but a change in the way the economy doles out its spoils.”

And that is the theme that I wish to pursue this evening. The need to simultaneously address the structural and institutional racism which exists in this country, while at the same time we vigorously attack the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality which is making the very rich much richer while everyone else – especially the African-American community and working-class whites – are becoming poorer.

Let’s go to an issue that is rightly on everyone’s mind, the continuing struggle for racial justice in America and the need to combat structural racism. Let’s start with the facts. The horrible facts.

If current trends continue, one in four black males born today can expect to spend time in prison during their lifetime. This is an unspeakable tragedy.
Blacks are imprisoned at six times the rate of whites.
People of color are incarcerated, policed and sentenced to death at significantly higher rates than their white counterparts.
One in every 15 African-American men is incarcerated, compared to one in every 106 white men.
A report by the Department of Justice found that blacks were three times more likely to be searched during a traffic stop, compared to white motorists.
African-Americans are twice as likely to be arrested and almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with the police.
African-Americans make up two-fifths of confined youth today.
African-American women are three times more likely than white women to be incarcerated.
Once convicted, black offenders receive longer sentences (10 percent longer) than white offenders for the same crimes.
Thirteen percent of Africa-American men have lost the right to vote due to felony convictions.
But as bad as those statistics are, and they are indeed a tragedy, the situation for many people of color is worse yet.

Too many African-Americans today are simultaneously having to deal the crisis of racial justice while coping with the effects of poverty and economic deprivation, such as drugs, crime, and despair.

Of course the majority of people of color are trying to work hard, play by the rules and raise their children. But there are neighborhoods where mothers are afraid to let their children outside for fear of gang violence and drugs. And they are also afraid of their children being targeted by the police because of the color of their skin. No person should have to worry that a routine interaction with law enforcement will end in violence or death.

As Martin Luther King, Jr., said; Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress.

Across the nation, too many African-Americans and other minorities find themselves subjected to a system that treats citizens who have not committed crimes like criminals. A growing number of communities do not trust the police and police have become disconnected from the communities they are sworn to protect.

Sandra Bland, Michael Brown, Rekia Boyd, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, Freddie Gray, Tamir Rice. We know their names. Each of them died unarmed at the hands of police officers or in police custody. The chants are growing louder. People are angry. I am angry. And people have a right to be angry. Violence and brutality of any kind, particularly at the hands of law enforcement sworn to protect and serve our communities, is unacceptable and must not be tolerated.

We must reform our criminal justice system. Black lives do matter. And we must value black lives.

We must move away from the militarization of police forces. We must invest in community policing. Only when we get officers into the communities, working within the neighborhoods before trouble arises, do we really develop the relationships necessary to make our communities safer.

We need a federal initiative to completely redo how we train police officers in this country and give them body cameras. States and localities that make progress in this area should get more federal justice grant money. Those that do not should get their funding slashed. The measure of success for law enforcement should not be how many people get locked up.

For people who have committed crimes that have landed them in jail, there needs to be a path back from prison. The federal system of parole needs to be reinstated. We need real education and real skills training for the incarcerated.

We must end the over incarceration of non-violent young Americans who do not pose a serious threat to our society. It is an international embarrassment that we have more people locked up in jail than any other country on earth – more than even the Communist totalitarian state of China. That has got to end.

The war on drugs has been a failure and has ruined the lives of too many people. African-Americans comprise 14 percent of regular drug users but are 37 percent of those arrested for drug offenses. From 1980 to 2007, about one in three adults arrested for drugs was African-American.

It is an obscenity that we stigmatize so many young Americans with a criminal record for smoking marijuana, but not one major Wall Street executive has been prosecuted for causing the near collapse of our entire economy. This must change.

We need to end prisons for profit, which result in an over-incentive to arrest, jail and detain, in order to keep prison beds full. We need to invest in drug courts and medical and mental health interventions for people with substance abuse problems, so that they do not end up in prison, they end up in treatment.

But we have to go beyond just violence perpetuated by the state. As we saw so horribly in South Carolina, there are still those who seek to terrorize the African American community with violence and intimidation. We need to make sure the federal resources are there to crack down on the illegal activities of hate groups. We need a new social movement to let all the racist haters out there know that they will no longer be accepted in a civilized society.

In addition to the physical violence faced by too many in our country we need look at the lives of black children and address a few other difficult facts. Black children, who make up just 18 percent of preschoolers, account for 48 percent of all out-of-school suspensions before kindergarten. We are failing our black children before kindergarten! Black students were expelled at three times the rate of white students. Black girls were suspended at higher rates than all other girls and most boys. According to the Department of Education, African American students are more likely to suffer harsh punishments – suspensions and arrests – at school.

We need to take a hard look at education system. Black students attended schools with higher concentrations of first-year teachers, compared with white students. Black students were more than three times as likely to attend schools where fewer than 60 percent of teachers meet all state certification and licensure requirements.

We must get into our schools and keep kids in school. We must ensure that children graduate from high school and don’t drop out. This is a complicated problem and I’m not going to stand here and say I have all the answers.

But one thing that will help kids stay in school is if they have a belief that they will be able to get a college education. For too many families college seems like an impossibility. We have got to change that. We need to give our children, regardless of their race or their income, a fair shot at attending college. That’s why I support making all public universities tuition free.

Communities of color also face the violence of economic deprivation. Let’s be frank: neighborhoods like those in west Baltimore, where Freddie Gray resided, suffer the most. However, the problem of economic immobility isn’t just a problem for young men like Freddie Gray. It has become a problem for millions of Americans who, despite hard-work and the will to get ahead, can spend their entire lives struggling to survive on the economic treadmill.

We live at a time when most Americans don’t have $10,000 in savings, and millions of working adults have no idea how they will ever retire in dignity. God forbid, they are confronted with an unforeseen car accident, a medical emergency, or the loss of a job. It would literally send their lives into an economic tailspin. And the problems are even more serious when we consider race.

Most black and Latino households have less than $350 in savings. The black unemployment rate has remained roughly twice as high as the white rate over the last 40 years, regardless of education. This is unacceptable. The American people in general, want change – they want a better deal. A fairer deal. A new deal. They want an America with laws and policies that truly reward hard work with economic mobility. They want an America that affords all of its citizens with the economic security to take risks and the opportunity to realize their full potential.

Income and Wealth Inequality

Today, we live in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, but that reality means little because almost all of that wealth is controlled by a tiny handful of individuals.

There is something profoundly wrong when the top one-tenth of 1 percent owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent, and when 99 percent of all new income goes to the top 1 percent. There is something profoundly wrong when we have a proliferation of millionaires and billionaires at the same time as millions of Americans work longer hours for lower wages and we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country on earth. There is something profoundly wrong when one family owns more wealth than the bottom 130 million Americans. This grotesque level of inequality is immoral. It is bad economics. It is unsustainable. That is why we need a tax system that is fair and progressive, which makes wealthy individuals and profitable corporations begin to pay their fair share of taxes. This type of rigged economy is not what America is supposed to be about. This has got to change and, together we will change it.

We need to send a message to the billionaire class: “You can’t have it all. You can’t get huge tax breaks while children in this country go hungry. You can’t continue sending our jobs to China while millions are looking for work. You can’t hide your profits in the Cayman Islands and other tax havens, while there are massive unmet needs on every corner of this nation. Your greed has got to end. You cannot take advantage of all the benefits of America, if you refuse to accept your responsibilities as Americans.”

Economics

But it is not just income and wealth inequality. It is the tragic reality that for the last 40 years the great middle class of our country – once the envy of the world – has been disappearing. Despite exploding technology and increased worker productivity, median family income is almost $5,000 less than it was in 1999. Throughout this country it is not uncommon for people to be working two or three jobs just to cobble together enough income and some health care benefits to survive.

​The truth is that real unemployment is not the 5.5 percent you read in newspapers. It is close to 11 percent if you include those workers who have given up looking for jobs or who are working part-time when they want to work full-time. And here is something we don’t hear much about. According to a recent analysis of Census Bureau data by the Economic Policy Institute, real youth unemployment in this country has reached crisis proportions. If you include those who are not working, who have given up looking for work or who are working part-time, white high school graduates aged 17-20 have an unemployment rate of 33 percent, Hispanics in the same age group have an unemployment rate of 36 percent while black youth have an unemployment rate of 51 percent. Today, shamefully, we have 45 million people living in poverty, many of whom are working at low-wage jobs.

Raising Wages and Benefits

Let us be honest and acknowledge that millions of Americans are now working for totally inadequate wages. The current federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage and must be raised. The minimum wage must become a living wage – which means raising it to $15 an hour over the next few years. The benchmark of full time work in America should be simple and concrete – that no full-time worker should live in poverty.

​And a living wage should not only be fair, it should be equitable. That is why we must establish pay equity for women workers by law. It’s unconscionable that women earn 78 cents on the dollar compared to men who perform the same work. We must also end the scandal in which millions of American employees, often earning less than $30,000 a year, work 50 or 60 hours a week – and earn no overtime.

Further, the United States must end the international embarrassment of being the only major country on earth, the only one, which does not guarantee workers paid medical and family leave, paid sick time and paid vacation time. Last place is no place for America. That is why I will fight for 12 weeks of paid family leave, at least 10 days of paid vacation time and seven days of paid sick time. My Republican colleagues talk a lot about “family values.” Well, let me be very clear. It is not a family value to force the mother of a new born baby to go back to work a few days after she gives birth, because she doesn’t have the money to stay home and bond with her baby. That is not a family value. That is an insult to everything that I know about what family is about.

Today, as a result of the collapse of our middle class and declining wages, the American people are working longer hours than the people of any other country – 137 hours a year more than the Japanese, 260 more hours per year than the British and 499 hours a year more than the French. Well, 100 years later we still have not achieved that. Incredibly, today, 85 percent of working men and 66 percent of working women work more than 40 hours a week. And do you know what? Many workers in this country get no or very little paid vacation time. That has got to end.

Protecting Our Most Vulnerable

At a time when millions of Americans are struggling to keep their heads above water economically, at a time when senior poverty is increasing, at a time when millions of kids are living in dire poverty my Republican colleagues are trying to make a terrible situation even worse. If you can believe it, the Republican budget throws 27 million Americans off health insurance, makes drastic cuts in Medicare, throws millions of low income Americans, including pregnant women off nutrition programs, and makes it harder for working-class families to afford college or put their kids into Head Start. And then, to add insult to injury, they provide huge tax breaks for the very, very wealthiest families in this country while they raise taxes on working families.

Well, let me tell my Republican colleagues that I respectfully disagree with their approach. Instead of cutting Social Security, we need to expand Social Security benefits. Instead of cutting Head Start and childcare, we need to move to a universal pre-k system for all the children of this country. As Franklin Delano Roosevelt reminded us: “The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much, it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.” And that is a test that we as a nation must once again meet and master.

We need to make health care a basic right in our society.

We need to make sure every parent has quality affordable child care and where all of our qualified young people, regardless of income, can go to college, by making a 4-year education at every public college and university in this country free. If Germany, Sweden and Denmark can afford to do this, then so can we.

We need to invest in jobs and job training, rather than to be building more and more jails and to be locking up more and more people. That is why I have submitted legislation to spend $5.5 billion dollars to fund job-training programs for inner city youth. Instead of building more and more prisons, we need to be building more and more meaningful lives where young people can have a future, not be stuck in a dead end with no hope or opportunity.

If we are serious about reversing the decline of the middle class we need a major federal jobs program that puts millions of Americans back to work at decent paying jobs. At a time when our roads, bridges, water systems, rail and airports are decaying, the most effective way to rapidly create meaningful jobs is to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. That’s why I’ve introduced legislation that would invest $1 trillion over 5 years to modernize our country’s physical infrastructure. This legislation would create and maintain at least 13 million good-paying jobs, while making our country more productive, efficient and safe. And I commit to you that as president, I will lead that legislation into law.

This is an ambitious program that would lift millions of families out of poverty and provide a pathway to greater economic security for all Americans. The right to a college education, the right to health care, and a guaranteed right to employment. It will not heal all wounds or relieve all tensions, but it would go beyond anything we have tried before, and it would send a clear signal that black lives matter.

Citizens United and Campaign Finance Reform and Voting Rights

I want to talk about our democracy. The billionaire class is controlling our political and economic lives because of the disastrous Citizens United case. The Supreme Court unconscionably gutted the Voting Rights Act. Make no mistake, we watching the erosion of our democracy and the gains that we have fought so hard to achieve.

Some of you may not see the connection between an out-of-control campaign financing system and the gutting of our voting rights, but you should not be fooled – they are two sides of the same coin. Our access to our democracy is being ripped away. The billionaires do not want people to vote.

My friends – let me be as blunt as I can while telling you what you already know. As a result of the disastrous Supreme Court decision in the Citizens United case, the American political system has been totally corrupted, and the foundations of American democracy are being undermined. What the Supreme Court essentially said was that it was not good enough for the billionaire class to own much of our economy. They could now own the U.S. government as well. And that is precisely what they are trying to do.

If we are serious about creating jobs, about climate change and the needs of our children, our veterans and the elderly, about reforming our criminal justice system, we must be deadly serious about campaign finance reform. That is why in my campaign for president, I have said that I will not nominate any justice to the Supreme Court who has not made it clear that he or she will move to overturn that disastrous decision which is undermining our democracy. Long term, we need to go further and establish public funding of elections, so that the dark money of American politics is stopped before democracy is bought and paid for by a handful of billionaires and corporations.

American democracy is not about corporations and billionaires being able to buy candidates and elections. It is not about Wall Street and big oil or the Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson spending billions of dollars to elect candidates who will make the rich richer and everyone else poorer. According to media reports the Koch brothers alone, one family, will spend more money in this election cycle than either the Democratic or Republican parties. This is not democracy. This is oligarchy. The defining principle of American democracy is one person, one vote – with every citizen having an equal say – and no voter suppression. And that’s the kind of American political system we have to fight for.

Not only are big moneyed interests trying to buy the American electorate, Republican-controlled legislatures have done everything in their power to make it more difficult to vote.

Voting is becoming more difficult, not less. The Voting Rights Act has been gutted by the Supreme Court, and efforts to repair it in Congress have been sidelined. Voter suppression today is alive and well in the form of unnecessary voter ID laws, restrictions on registering to vote, improper purging of voter rolls, felon disenfranchisement, and a staggering array of deceptive practices that are preventing eligible voters from participating in the political process. It is embarrassing that the United States’ voting system is so dysfunctional.

​We need to remember the price that was paid for the right to vote. We must restore our democracy’s promise of one man, one vote. We must repeal Citizens United and take the political process back from the billionaire class. We need to extend early voting, extend voting hours, make Election Day a holiday or move it to a weekend.

​One area that I have been interested in is voter registration. Unsurprisingly, most other advanced democracies make voter registration much easier than we do here in the United States. Some countries, such as Argentina, Belgium, and Germany, maintain a national or municipal population database and local election officials add eligible voters to the rolls based on those lists. Some countries hire workers to go door-to-door and register all eligible voters, including Great Britain and Indonesia. Mexico deploys such workers to rural areas.

France automatically registers 18-year-olds to vote when they register with the Selective Service. Canada uses info collected from other government agencies to add eligible citizens to the rolls—British Columbia uses DMV records; Quebec uses health insurance records. If more info is needed, the government reaches out by mail and sends the potential voter a registration form, with a postage-paid return envelope.

The U.S. is one of the few countries which puts the onus of registration on the voter, not the state. This is ridiculous.

In 2009, the Brennan Center released a study of worldwide voter registration rates, based on citizen voting-age population. Here are a few countries:

Argentina (2007): 100%
Great Britain (2008): 97%
Belgium (2007): 94%
Canada (2008): 93%
Germany (2005): 93%
Australia (2008): 92%
France (2007): 91%
United States (2006): 68%
The Census Bureau Population Survey says in 2012, 71.2 percent of Americans were registered to vote. The number varies by age—only 58 percent of 18-29-year-olds were registered to vote, but 79 percent of those older than 70 were registered.

We should be making voting easier, not harder.

Let us also be very clear that the stakes are very high. The right to vote is preservative of all other rights. And when in this last election in November 63 percent of the American people chose not to vote; 80 percent of young people chose not to vote; and almost 75 percent of low-income workers chose not to vote, it should not come as a surprise that the stranglehold that the billionaire class has on the economy is tightening around the middle class.

And when we talk about voting rights, we have to address the reality of over 2 million African-Americans who have been disenfranchised due to criminal convictions. This is not the way to help bring people returning from prison back into their communities. If you can believe it, in some states over 20 percent of the African-American population is disenfranchised. Florida – 23 percent. Virginia – 20 percent. Kentucky – 22 percent. But the percentages don’t necessarily give the entire picture because in many, many states with large African American populations, the percentage may be lower but the number of individuals who can’t cast a ballot is high. Georgia – almost 160,000 people; Texas – over 150,000 people; Alabama – over 135,000 people; Mississippi – over 107,000 people. That is why I am a sponsor of legislation introduced on the House side by Rep. John Conyers called the Democracy Restoration Act which would restore federal voting rights.

We must remember that the struggle for our rights is not a struggle for one day, or one year, or one generation – it is the struggle of a lifetime, and one that must be fought by every generation.

All of you in this room know it, but it bears saying out loud: civil rights are not just about for voting rights, but economic and social equality – and most importantly, jobs. 50 years later, it remains the great unfinished business of the civil rights movement.

In conclusion, I’ve been traveling this country for over a year now. People are ready for a new movement – a political revolution – to transform our country economically, politically, socially and environmentally. In other words, we are building a movement of millions of Americans who are prepared to stand up and fight back.

I believe the time has come to say loudly and clearly: enough is enough. This great nation and its government belong to all of the people, and not to a handful of billionaires, their Super-PACs and their lobbyists.

​Now is not the time for thinking small. Now is not the time for the same-old, same-old establishment politics and stale inside-the-beltway ideas.

Now is the time for millions of working families – black and white, Latino and Native American, gay and straight – to come together, to revitalize American democracy, to end the collapse of the American middle class and to make certain that our children and grandchildren are able to enjoy a quality of life that brings them health, prosperity, security and joy – and that once again makes the United States the leader in the world in the fight for economic and social justice, for environmental sanity and for a world of peace.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jul-26-15 10:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
59. "Bernie's already done more in 2 weeks than Hillary has in 20 years"
In response to Reply # 46


          

in terms of clearly and boldly addressing structural racism and police brutality.

Name a Senator or Congressman who is more outspoken than Bernie on these issues.

I'll wait.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Aug-09-15 10:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
63. "lol'z "
In response to Reply # 0


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-09-15 11:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "I'm going to the jawn tomorrow "
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

https://go.berniesanders.com/page/event/detail/rally/4jgdj

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Aug-09-15 04:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
65. "Dope. Let us know what it's like on the ground."
In response to Reply # 64


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 11:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "Symone Sanders (c) first out the limo"
In response to Reply # 65
Tue Aug-11-15 12:13 PM by bentagain

  

          

climate activist
immigration activist
labor/union rep
healthcare rep <-- announced nurses union endorsement
celebrity intro <-- sarah silverman

the place was rocking by the time Bern made his entrance

the energy was just incredible

the line wrapped around the LA Sports Arena at least twice

I'm giving the sideye to these numbers though

the capacity is 16K, and even if it was filled to the brim

they made some announcement of 27K (as if nobody would remember the POR number being 26K the day before) with the people that couldn't get in

nah, that's B$, and I'll just subtract 1/3 of whatever numer they announce from now on

incredibly diverse crowd generationally

blue hair, to green hair, to grey hair

obivously a younger demographic (this is LA though)

but plenty of older folks as well

you could feel the energy from outside the building

very easy to chat folks up

it was an incredible experience, can't say I've ever really seen anything like that before (also my first rally)

the key takeaway was that all of the organizations were represented

from Occupy to BLM

it's the reverse of what I envisioned, instead of those movements endorsing a candidate, Bern's endorsing them

my concern is the lack of AA participation

very few AA in attendance

could be the BLM shutdowns, IDK

my further concern would be a Barry O endorsement for Hillary

I could definitely see the AA voter moving to her campaign off of that alone.

to compound the possible shift of the female vote as well

it's crazy though once they start to refer to his record

I don't see any other candidate that can compete on actual achievement

he's been consistently on the right side of the issues for 40 years

#feelthebern

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79544 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 11:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "Blacks love the Clintons yo... "
In response to Reply # 70


          

I don't see us moving to Bernie.

I guess you never went to an Obama rally. Prolly the same energy but with more Blacks

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
naame
Charter member
21017 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 12:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "did his speech give you any inspiration?"
In response to Reply # 70
Tue Aug-11-15 12:29 PM by naame

  

          

or was he a few notches above O'malley on the enthusiasm level? I always leave Bernie's speeches nonplussed.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 12:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "his speech, no. THE EVENT, YES!!!"
In response to Reply # 73
Tue Aug-11-15 12:46 PM by bentagain

  

          

it's a stump speech, that I've heard most of already

inspiring to hear him actually incoporate 'institutional racism' into his platform

and say '#blacklivesmatter'

but being at that event and seeing so many people genuinely enthused was VERY inspiring

I wasn't sure what to expect, but I was really surprised at the youth demographic present

I'd guess at least half of the crowd was in the 20-30Y.O. range

I can't imagine many scenarios where millenials would be willing to stand in line for an hour, and possibly not get in

and from what I hear, many didn't.

his voice was obviously fatigued

and by the time he entered the stage, most of the agenda had been layed out already by the previous speakers

it did start to feel like a teacher or parent lecturing you

i.e. what he's saying is important, but I couldn't help thinking there has to be a more effective way to illustrate his points

he's obviously very comfortable with the traditional format

I'd love to see future presentations incorporate more modern forms of media

i.e. video presentations, illustrations, etc...

yesterday was 20 minutes of intro, about 40-45 minutes of Bern talking

given the demographic described above, I'd imagine alot of people tuned out somewhere along the line

it needs something to break up the monotony of just words and more words.


---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 05:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
77. "that's what's up! Thanks for this recap"
In response to Reply # 70


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Mon Aug-10-15 12:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "he doesnt use the social justice warrior academic lefts"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

new buzzwords and rhetoric, nor does he know how to do the wobble
so certain people wont vote for him


even though his proposed policy will help more poor blacks and minorities than Hillary or any other candidate with a chance to win


its identity politics at its worst.

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Jon
Charter member
18687 posts
Mon Aug-10-15 08:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 67


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Mon Aug-10-15 07:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "Didnt he just hire the founder of #blacklivesmatter "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
GirlChild
Charter member
56000 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 11:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

I don't know if it was the founder but it's definitely someone from blm

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 05:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
76. "Yes - been courting her for weeks. Symone Sanders"
In response to Reply # 68


          

and not just hired - but appointed as his National Press Secretary.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 09:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "No, the creators of #BLM are: Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, & Opal Tom..."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

nm

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
rawsouthpaw
Charter member
15496 posts
Mon Aug-17-15 11:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "word, and BLM also doesn't back candidates"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

http://blacklivesmatter.com/blacklivesmatter-statement-on-political-affiliations/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Tue Aug-11-15 12:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "mostly white women and men are ignorant by design "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the same could be said for black people as well.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Aug-17-15 06:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "#feelthebern (c) I am not my hair"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Aug-17-15 06:22 PM by bentagain

  

          

dude just refuses to be baited, bravo sir

I still wonder if he's read the #berniesoblack memes

BECAUSE THEY'RE FUNNY!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/magazine/bernie-sanders-has-heard-about-that-hashtag.html?_r=0


Do you think President Obama is a socialist? No.

What is your elevator pitch for socialism? My elevator pitch is that the United States has a grotesque level of income and wealth inequality where the top one-tenth of 1 percent owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent, where almost 20 percent of our children are living in poverty, 40 percent of African-American children are living in poverty. We are moving rapidly toward an oligarchic form of society where a small number of families control not only the economy but our political system as well. It is imperative that we develop a strong political movement that says to the billionaire class they cannot have it all.

A recent poll showed that Americans are more willing to vote for a Muslim or an atheist for president than a socialist. Do you think you could take back the word ‘‘socialism’’ and keep it from being what it is right now, which is almost a nasty word? Actually, what surprised me about that poll was, given the negative publicity that the word ‘‘socialism’’ has, that — what was the number of the people who were prepared to vote for a socialist?

It was in the high 40s. Yeah. Well, that’s pretty good, and it’ll get higher.

One of the few clear ideas that Americans have about socialism is that it involves high taxes. Can you sell that, the idea that you might have to raise taxes? I think we can sell the idea that when the rich are getting much richer and corporations are enjoying record-breaking profits that yes, they should start paying their fair share of taxes.

Are you familiar with the hashtag #Bernie­SoBlack? I’ve heard of it.

A lot of black activists felt as if, when they criticized you, the response they got back was ‘‘but he marched on Washington,’’ as though that were an absolution. And so it became this joke on Twitter: ‘‘Bernie’s so black, he’s the first one killed in horror movies.’’ ‘‘Bernie’s so black, he’s dropping a mix tape.’’ Well look, Black Lives Matter is a very, very serious issue. And clearly, as a nation, we have to move away from a situation where black women are dragged out of their cars, thrown to the ground, assaulted and then die in jail three days later for the crime of not signaling a lane change. Or more recently, a fellow named Samuel DuBose got shot in the head for the crime of not having a license plate on the front of his car.

Were you surprised that black activists responded so negatively to you at first? Yes, I was, because I think if you check the record, you will find that I have one of the strongest civil rights records in Congress, and this is an issue I feel strongly about.

What do you think of Donald Trump’s surge in the polls? Not much. I think Donald Trump’s views on immigration and his slurring of the Latino community is not something that should be going on in the year 2015, and it’s to me an embarrassment for our country.

Do you think it’s fair that Hillary’s hair gets a lot more scrutiny than yours does? Hillary’s hair gets more scrutiny than my hair?

Yeah. Is that what you’re asking?

Yeah. O.K., Ana, I don’t mean to be rude here. I am running for president of the United States on serious issues, O.K.? Do you have serious questions?

I can defend that as a serious question. There is a gendered reason — When the media worries about what Hillary’s hair looks like or what my hair looks like, that’s a real problem. We have millions of people who are struggling to keep their heads above water, who want to know what candidates can do to improve their lives, and the media will very often spend more time worrying about hair than the fact that we’re the only major country on earth that doesn’t guarantee health care to all people.

It’s also true that the media pays more attention to what female candidates look like than it does to what male candidates look like. That may be. That may be, and it’s absolutely wrong.

I can defend that as a serious question. There is a gendered reason — When the media worries about what Hillary’s hair looks like or what my hair looks like, that’s a real problem. We have millions of people who are struggling to keep their heads above water, who want to know what candidates can do to improve their lives, and the media will very often spend more time worrying about hair than the fact that we’re the only major country on earth that doesn’t guarantee health care to all people.

It’s also true that the media pays more attention to what female candidates look like than it does to what male candidates look like. That may be. That may be, and it’s absolutely wrong.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Tue Aug-18-15 05:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
82. "Right now I feel like Lessig is closer to my politics than Bernie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And I'm kinda pissed my lessig post has gone wood. So I'm just gonna put this here because I don't know. It's a slim to none chance but it feels like the right thing to do:

https://lessigforpresident.com/


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-17-15 12:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
83. "Cornell stumping for Bern (vid)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=301&v=W8cex4VTrwg

Cap sees it (swipe)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/09/02/kareem-abdul-jabbar-this-is-the-difference-between-donald-trump-and-bernie-sanders/?postshare=3211441203918963

Campaign Zero meeting today

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-black-lives-matter_55f9ca9ce4b00310edf57b02

crazy how many times I heard HRC during last night's debate

nobody talking about Bernie out here gettin' it done.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Thu Sep-17-15 12:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
84. "Bernie's support among non-white voters is currently very low *link*"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-17-15 12:56 PM by KosherSam

  

          

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/bernie-sanders-new-hampshire/

he's got no chance unless he can get those folks to hear and buy in to his message.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Oct-13-15 07:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
85. "LOL @ "#AllLivesMatter" Clinton getting 84%+ of the black vote in S.C."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Oct-13-15 07:49 PM by Vex_id

          

status-quo so-called "progressives" are syced and taking selfies w/ Hill Dawg, meanwhile the only candidate advocating for real change and challenging institutional racism can't gain any traction w/ this segment of the electorate?

k.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 06:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "CNN had their pitchforks out, trying to put Bern in the NRA's pocket"
In response to Reply # 85
Wed Oct-14-15 06:06 AM by bentagain

  

          

I really appreciated AC's follow up questions in the opening

seemed to have his facts ready to call people out on their BS

but the NRA topic seemed like an intentional gotcha moment aimed at Bern

I do think he mis-stepped using the language rural

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

but it should be obvious, gun violence is not as big of a problem in Vermont as it is in other states

especially considering the other candidates and their associated home states high profile issues with gun violence

Virginia Tech
HRC = NY Senator
Baltimore, HELLO!

strange that they tried so hard to paint Bern as an NRA, gun nut.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 06:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "Thats the problem with Bernie, he's full of rhetoric but out of touch..."
In response to Reply # 86


          

with reality.

He didn't even know what #blacklivesmatter was until they bum rushed his campaign event.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 06:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "yeah, his campaign is completely out of touch with reality"
In response to Reply # 87
Wed Oct-14-15 06:32 AM by bentagain

  

          

health coverage
college tuition
income disparity
renewable energy
criminal justice reform

those must be the issues on Bern's imaginary planet

because I want to talk about immigration

c'mon

HRC showed her a$$ last night defending too big to fail banks

ol' girl is pandering

#alllivesmatter (c) HRC AND O'malley <-- what's going to be the reaction from BLM if that's the DEM's ticket?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 06:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "he talks a good game, can he get enough partisan support to get any..."
In response to Reply # 88


          

of that done?

Bernie is too far left to have a shot in the general election.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 06:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "LOL@you thinking any of these other candidates would be different"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

than status quo

I read your reply as

you agree with Bernie's campaign

but won't vote for him

because you're convinced he won't win an election

I guess you'll have to explain to me how a HRC administration and subsequent policies would be any different than the REP nominee

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 07:13 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. "RE: LOL@you thinking any of these other candidates would be different"
In response to Reply # 90


          

>than status quo
>
>I read your reply as
>
>you agree with Bernie's campaign
>
>but won't vote for him
>
>because you're convinced he won't win an election
>
>I guess you'll have to explain to me how a HRC administration
>and subsequent policies would be any different than the REP
>nominee


While I don't agree with Truth's overall view of Bernie (dude has a lot of heart and his "leftist" streak is not too out there considering that a lot of his views from the criminal justice system to big banks, I totally agree with), I'm also a realest....

And reality tells me that Bernie won't be able to pick up enough votes in the South and the Midwest Democratic strongholds (think Ohio and Pennsylvania) for obvious reasons...

As for how Hill Dawg will differ from the Republicans? Well for starters, her party is not being ran in the ground by political and xenophobic etremists like the Repubs...

I will vote for the most electable candidate on the Democratic side because the other highly unstable side (Trump and Ben Carson r their frontrunners....Let that marinate) cannot be trusted to govern a lemonade stand....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 07:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "My vote is not a strategy"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 08:07 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "RE: My vote is not a strategy"
In response to Reply # 92


          



Well that's on u....

Bernie is basically a Left leaning Democrat....Hill Dawg is a center left Dem who in the past has gone to the right on foreign policy issues at times....

But the truth is, politics is largely about pragmatism....Because u r essentially voting for one side's platform not an individual...Bernie reminds me a lot of ways of Senator George McGovern....A good, straight shooting man whose principles pretty much match up with a lot of my views, give or take...But we all know the end of that movie....

If the Republicans had stronger leading candidates and wasn't such a clown car, Bernie would not even be in the discussion. Not because he is an incompetent politician. Bernie outclasses Trump and the lot....It's because of how Bernie is viewed outside of the emotional Left: A socialist....

U add race (people are indeed fucked up....) and age to the mix and u have a perfect storm of a candidate (Bernie) that will def. move HIS side but struggle to pick up votes from the center as well as picking up that Obama coalition....

It's not so much about strategy...It's the fear of knowing how government would be ran if the Republicans got a hold of the Oval Office in addition to the House and the Senate....

That thought is scary as fuck....I'll let u stand on some naive principle....There's too much at stake to go that route...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 10:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
95. "Bernie is too "pie in the sky", he's all like "I'm going to right every...."
In response to Reply # 90


          

"wrong in this country in 4 years!"

Sit down grandpa, you'll be lucky to make it through your term.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Tue Nov-24-15 12:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
97. "it's beyond sad that the one principled candidate"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

the one candidate who actually does give a shit about struggling americans, and is sincere in everything he talks about is greeted with "sit down and get real, you crazy old man"

and i fall into that same camp that's too conditioned and cynical to feel he's realistically electable. the problem is us, really.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Wed Oct-14-15 08:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
94. "not surprised. Though they did pull HARD for Obama."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

reminder: this was candidate, not yet known to be "establishment man" Obama at the time, and relatively unknown.

Democratic voters in South Carolina are as pigeonholed as you can imagine. the red coats run that state (into the ground).

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Mon Nov-23-15 10:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
96. "Hillary supports prison-industrial complex/wall st.; Bern dines at Busy ..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/261141-killer-mike-sanders-dine-together-in-atlanta

Bet she still gets 90% of the black vote though.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Mon Jan-11-16 07:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
98. "Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa"
In response to Reply # 0


          

out-performing Clinton in head-to-head polling vs. both Trump & Cruz.

Welp. At least Hill-dawgs can dance on Ellen.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Mon Jan-11-16 08:33 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
99. "Lets hope it lasts. "
In response to Reply # 98


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 04:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
101. "RE: Lets hope it lasts. "
In response to Reply # 99


          

Bernie needs both Iowa and NH. If he wins both - it gets real, fast.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 04:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "RE: Lets hope it lasts. "
In response to Reply # 101


          

>Bernie needs both Iowa and NH. If he wins both - it gets
>real, fast.

Nah...it gets real if the Bern Man wins SC...That's when shit turns to WTF...lol

NH and Iowa are weird, outlier spots....And VERY white....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 11:17 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
100. "RE: Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa"
In response to Reply # 98
Tue Jan-12-16 11:19 AM by murph71

          

>out-performing Clinton in head-to-head polling vs. both Trump
>& Cruz.
>
>Welp. At least Hill-dawgs can dance on Ellen.

Yep...And Bernie just widened his lead in NH by double digits....

But I'll say it again...Dems gotta be smart on this one....New Hampshire and Iowa are weird fucking voting blocks....U can't just go by their vote and translate that to a general election....

I predict that H. Clinton will inch out a win in Iowa and lose in New Hampshire (Bernie has the leg up there due to his stronghold in Vermont)...But even if ol' girl loses both early on, I think Dems going all in on Bernie would make the same mistake the Repugs will make backing Trump in a general....

Bernie got the white progressives on lock...But u need Latinos and blacks to put together that coalition....So far that's been Clinton's strength....Bernie is struggling on that front...Gotta be smart on this one....South Carolina is where this race really starts....If Hill Dawg lose THERE then there will be reason to panic....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 04:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
103. "RE: Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa"
In response to Reply # 100


          

Good points. Even I have to admit I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if Bernie can inch out Iowa. I do expect him to carry NH. But I agree -- even if he wins both Iowa & NH -- the primary will continue as Clinton is counting out the minority votes to carry her in other states that are more reflective of the general demographics within the nation.

Sanders and his team have done a commendable job of making himself (and his progressive policies) known to blacks & latinos - but it's unlikely that he will be able to halt the blind support that many have for Clinton simply because of her name-brand power.

It's ironic that the minority vote could determine this primary by voting for the candidate who has not been nearly as committed/effective of an advocate for issues that are most proximate to them. But alas - that is (largely) the American electorate dynamic.

That said, in *this* political climate (where Establishment politics is rebuked) - I do believe that Sanders will perform the strongest in a general against the likes of Cruz/Trump.

If it were Jeb Bush? Sure - Clinton would perform well. But she won't be grabbing any independent votes.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 04:51 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "RE: Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa"
In response to Reply # 103
Tue Jan-12-16 05:02 PM by murph71

          

>Good points. Even I have to admit I'd be (pleasantly)
>surprised if Bernie can inch out Iowa. I do expect him to
>carry NH. But I agree -- even if he wins both Iowa & NH --
>the primary will continue as Clinton is counting out the
>minority votes to carry her in other states that are more
>reflective of the general demographics within the nation.


U gotta look at it this way...Iowa and NH are PROTEST hotbeds...And it doesn't help that their hardcore activism is made all the more elusive because they are damn near 99.9 percent white.....A candidate like Hillary Clinton is not pulling in the rebel rousers like Bernie, unless they know she is the general election candidate...

It's all about the South (blacks, white college folks), the West (Latinos, white college folks) and Middle America (white single mothers, working class women, white college folks, blacks, Latinos) for Clinton....That's her coalition....

Iowa and NH have always been tough nuts to crack for her....Those early voting blocks are tailor made for Bernie....Clinton should go hard in Iowa (her ground game is rumored to be better there) and SC....She ain't winning NH....

As for a general election? I'm going to go out on a limb and say despite those early poll numbers, the indies are not switching over to Trump or Cruz in a head to head match-up with Clinton...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
maryhattalillamb
Member since May 27th 2006
149 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 10:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "NH Iowa are weird..can't just go by their vote & translate to election....."
In response to Reply # 100


          

>But I'll say it again...Dems gotta be smart on this one....New
>Hampshire and Iowa are weird fucking voting blocks....U can't
>just go by their vote and translate that to a general
>election....
>
>I predict that H. Clinton will inch out a win in Iowa and lose
>in New Hampshire (Bernie has the leg up there due to his
>stronghold in Vermont)...But even if ol' girl loses both early
>on, I think Dems going all in on Bernie would make the same
>mistake the Repugs will make backing Trump in a general....



Since 2000, Gore, Kerry, and Obama each won the Iowa caucus and then their party's nomination. Since 1976, when the modern primary process came into being, the Democratic candidate with the most votes went on to win the Democratic nomination in all elections except in 1988 and 1992.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 10:46 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
110. "RE: NH Iowa are weird..can't just go by their vote & translate to electi..."
In response to Reply # 109


          

>>But I'll say it again...Dems gotta be smart on this
>one....New
>>Hampshire and Iowa are weird fucking voting blocks....U
>can't
>>just go by their vote and translate that to a general
>>election....
>>
>>I predict that H. Clinton will inch out a win in Iowa and
>lose
>>in New Hampshire (Bernie has the leg up there due to his
>>stronghold in Vermont)...But even if ol' girl loses both
>early
>>on, I think Dems going all in on Bernie would make the same
>>mistake the Repugs will make backing Trump in a general....
>
>
>
>Since 2000, Gore, Kerry, and Obama each won the Iowa caucus
>and then their party's nomination. Since 1976, when the modern
>primary process came into being, the Democratic candidate with
>the most votes went on to win the Democratic nomination in all
>elections except in 1988 and 1992.


This is not a one size fits all affair...It's about the candidate....

Gore, Kerry and Obama were able to attract a decent to very good chunk of the demographic in the South....I think Bernie's appeal right now is strong with white progressives....And u see that in in Iowa and NH....So while I am well aware of the stats that you brought up, Bernie is a special case...A socialist democrat who may not play well beyond his hardcore progressive base...

I don't see Bernie winning the South....And while he is steadily improving with the black vote, Clinton has a strong firewall with blacks and Latinos...

I see Clinton inching it out in Iowa and losing in NH....But if Clinton loses in both early primaries I think the South will prove to be too much for Bernie to overcome...Basically, what I'm saying is Bernie winning Iowa and NH makes sense considering the majority white voting blocks there....

So yes, while history is important, in the case of Bernie Sanders it's a bit more layered and complex....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
maryhattalillamb
Member since May 27th 2006
149 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 11:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "Obama is more special than Bernie, right?"
In response to Reply # 110


          

>This is not a one size fits all affair...It's about the
>candidate....


To read your hundreds of posts on this matter it seems as though you have this down to a "science" and have already calculated why HRC will win the general election.
Why every other candidate Dem and Repub is wrong but HRC is so right.


>So while I am well aware of the
>stats that you brought up, Bernie is a special case...A
>socialist democrat who may not play well beyond his hardcore
>progressive base...


Obama was a black man from the Southside of Chicago that no one other than political insiders knew of before he began to run for president.
Obama was a very special case.




>
>I don't see Bernie winning the South....And while he is
>steadily improving with the black vote, Clinton has a strong
>firewall with blacks and Latinos...



The fact that HRC doesn't have this already sewn up so close to the primary seasons shows a major problem for her.
Same for Jeb Bush, if you can't get the party to strongarm for you to get you the nomination this late in the process, you have issues.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 12:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
112. "RE: Obama is more special than Bernie, right?"
In response to Reply # 111
Sun Jan-17-16 12:46 PM by murph71

          


>Obama was a black man from the Southside of Chicago that no
>one other than political insiders knew of before he began to
>run for president.
>Obama was a very special case.

I zeroed in on this^^^Thanks for making my point...

The rise of Obama was viewed heavily as a transformative moment in politics..A black man running for President who proved to be the perfect candidate...

His run was marked by one history-making first: The First Black President...This trumped Clinton's FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT angle...

Bernie is a lot of things...He's dogged...He has heart...He is speaking on a very hardcore progressive message...But in the end he is a white man (nothing groundbreaking there) who will be hurt with the socialism tag as the election rolls on....

And while his message is viewed as the polar opposite of Trump, they are both in on the REVOLT AGAINST THE STATUS QUO/ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE angle of the current political climate. But in a race against Bernie who is far from Obama, I still think Clinton can overcome his impressive run with the fact that there has never been a woman president before...



>The fact that HRC doesn't have this already sewn up so close
>to the primary seasons shows a major problem for her.
>Same for Jeb Bush, if you can't get the party to strongarm for
>you to get you the nomination this late in the process, you
>have issues.


No...the fact that she doesn't have Iowa and NH sewn up tells me that we are dealing with over 90 percent white voting primaries who may not be turned on to H. Clinton like they were to Obama's game changing run......This is a different type of election cycle...Mainstream candidates like Clinton are viewed with suspicion which is magnified in places like New Hampshire and Iowa...Outlier candidates like Sanders and Trump are energizing their respective bases...Clinton has to simply survive the oddities that r Iowa and NH....It will get interesting...

The race officially begins in SC...If Bernie wins there then it's over for Clinton....But I don't see that happening....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
maryhattalillamb
Member since May 27th 2006
149 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 01:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
118. "RE: Obama is more special than Bernie, right?"
In response to Reply # 112


          

>The rise of Obama was viewed heavily as a transformative
>moment in politics..A black man running for President who
>proved to be the perfect candidate...
>
>His run was marked by one history-making first: The First
>Black President...This trumped Clinton's FIRST FEMALE
>PRESIDENT angle...

There was already two previous presidential elections with a black man candidate.
Even one of them had a black female (double dipped HRC) candidate.

Very few are voting for a "novelty vote" of voting for a woman president (because Fiorina is a woman as well just as Palin is a woman)
when our economy is in such bad shape (and getting worse)

HRC has a few major hurdles to get over with undecided voters:

Benghazi
Email Server
Her Husband
Her out of touchness but still trying too hard to relate.

GWB did not try to "relate" to anyone outside of middle aged southern white men who liked to hunt and drink beer.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 02:36 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "RE: Obama is more special than Bernie, right?"
In response to Reply # 118
Sun Jan-17-16 02:45 PM by murph71

          

>>The rise of Obama was viewed heavily as a transformative
>>moment in politics..A black man running for President who
>>proved to be the perfect candidate...
>>
>>His run was marked by one history-making first: The First
>>Black President...This trumped Clinton's FIRST FEMALE
>>PRESIDENT angle...
>
>There was already two previous presidential elections with a
>black man candidate.
>Even one of them had a black female (double dipped HRC)
>candidate.


Those other black candidates weren't taken seriously....And they didn't have that background story that made Obama such a perfect sale (half white, half black; brilliant legal mind; being tagged as the next political star in the Democratic party; that Chicago backstory....It was all there...)




>Very few are voting for a "novelty vote" of voting for a woman
>president (because Fiorina is a woman as well just as Palin is
>a woman)
> when our economy is in such bad shape (and getting worse)
>
>HRC has a few major hurdles to get over with undecided
>voters:
>
>Benghazi
>Email Server
>Her Husband
>Her out of touchness but still trying too hard to relate.
>
>GWB did not try to "relate" to anyone outside of middle aged
>southern white men who liked to hunt and drink beer.

This is what's going to happen....Clinton will inch out a very close race in Iowa....And lose in NH....From there, Clinton's much varied and diverse voting block should carry her in a very close, hard fought battle for the Democratic nomination....

As for the laundry list u just through up there? Democrats should ONLY be concerned with the Email server....That's a real issue....

But...

Benghazi? Don't believe that Right Wing chatter. Clinton dusted them fools off with after that partisan marathon grilling she went through...

Her husband? If Bernie starts using that Trump angle Democrats will never forgive him...

The rest is just talking points...

I'm pretty much an old school Democrat. I don't feel comfortable with Bernie running in a general election with the lack of a diverse voting coalition behind him AND the socialist tag attached to him....

Bernie is capturing the imagination of the hardcore--mostly white---liberal base to a lesser degree than what George McGovern did during his heartfelt run...

We know the ending to that movie....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
maryhattalillamb
Member since May 27th 2006
149 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 02:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
122. "January 2008, were you an Obama supporter?"
In response to Reply # 121


          

Or have you always stumped for HRC?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 09:24 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
130. "RE: January 2008, were you an Obama supporter?"
In response to Reply # 122


          



I was a Obama supporter.......

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Tiggerific
Member since May 24th 2007
13451 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 07:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "RE: Sanders leading in NH - within 1-2 percentage points in Iowa"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

Dude I am so feeling the Bern!

I saw video on Huffington Post (Google your friend) when Hilary got asked about her white privilege and she totally bombed the question!

I can't do Hil-dog!

"We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents" - Bob Ross

"I'm wearing a MSU Tshirt because I went to MSU, you are wearing a UM Tshirt because you went to Walmart!" -unknown.

http://bjsquirrelchronicles.blogspot.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79544 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 07:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
107. "I think he would lose the general "
In response to Reply # 106


          

but I also think Hillary is going to have a harder time then she thinks.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Jan-12-16 08:31 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
108. "RE: I think he would lose the general "
In response to Reply # 107
Tue Jan-12-16 08:39 PM by murph71

          

Bernie would def. lose the general.....

If Rubio was doing a lot better then he would be the one I could see beating Clinton and winning it all...But the Repug base is a bit self-destructive right now....

I don't see Trump or Cruz beating Clinton no matter what the early polls say. The independents will come to their senses with those two and Latinos will come out a deliver given Trump/Cruz' bullshit anti-immigration policy ideas...

If I'm Clinton I would be more concerned with SC than NH or Iowa....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "RE: "Where Do I Start?""
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/01/12/hillary_clinton_on_how_she_has_benefited_from_white_priviledge_where_do_i_start.html

Just realizing I missed this 'forum on fusion'

Debbie Wasserman Schultz has done a terrible job

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 01:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
116. "horrible. "
In response to Reply # 113


          


>Debbie Wasserman Schultz has done a terrible job

It's actually offensive how blatantly biased she is for the Clinton campaign.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 01:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
117. "It's quite possible that the black & latino vote could determine this"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'd be curious to know: Where are your respective circles of friends/peers at with regards to this primary?

If Clinton gets the lion share of the black & latino vote (up to as much as 90%+ of the vote as some are predicting) - and essentially wins the primary based off of that vote - it would open up an interesting discussion on the dynamics of this electorate.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 02:23 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
119. "RE: It's quite possible that the black &amp; latino vote could determine..."
In response to Reply # 117
Sun Jan-17-16 02:40 PM by murph71

          

>I'd be curious to know: Where are your respective circles of
>friends/peers at with regards to this primary?
>
>If Clinton gets the lion share of the black & latino vote (up
>to as much as 90%+ of the vote as some are predicting) - and
>essentially wins the primary based off of that vote - it would
>open up an interesting discussion on the dynamics of this
>electorate.

It was always going to be this way in this chaotic, anti-establishment election...Blacks and Latinos are Clinton's firewall right now...And Bernie knows it. He's going hard on the black college circuit and has Dr. Cornell West stumping for him (but I don't know how smart this is...Black folk still got a funny taste in their mouth from West talking unmitigated shit about the first black president of the United States...)...

Clinton will have to work her ass off because this election is bigger than what Bernie is doing...All establishment candidates are taking a hit...It's a shock that Clinton even has a 25 point lead on Bernie nationally right now (latest WSJ/NBC poll)....

Shit really is going to get interesting once the SC race kicks off....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 06:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
123. "RE: It's quite possible that the black &amp; latino vote could determine..."
In response to Reply # 119


          

Blacks and Latinos are Clinton's
>firewall right now...And Bernie knows it.

Right - but more to the point: What has Clinton done to be awarded with the lion share of the black/latino vote? How/why/where is she a better advocate for the issues affecting blacks/latinos than Sanders?

>Shit really is going to get interesting once the SC race kicks
>off....

It will be interesting for sure - but only if Sanders can win one or both of the first primary states. If he can't win the early states - the status quo democratic electorate will overwhelm the energy that Bernie has cultivated.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 07:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
127. "RE: It's quite possible that the black &amp;amp;amp; latino vote could d..."
In response to Reply # 123
Sun Jan-17-16 07:40 PM by murph71

          

>Blacks and Latinos are Clinton's
>>firewall right now...And Bernie knows it.
>
>Right - but more to the point: What has Clinton done to be
>awarded with the lion share of the black/latino vote?
>How/why/where is she a better advocate for the issues
>affecting blacks/latinos than Sanders?


She was part of Obama's administration....That's basically all that needs to be said to black and Latino voters...

Obamacare, improving the economy, fighting the NRA....It doesn't matter if u r the most political, stiff creature on the planet like Clinton is in Obama's White House ...Obama's center left coalition will back u IF u played the good soldier role AND they think that u can win.....

And Clinton, who saw the hand writing on the wall, began to show a strong support for a good deal of Obama's policies whether its gun control or the the Affordable Care Act....

It's not at all complex...



GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Teknontheou
Charter member
32709 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 02:35 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
120. "I decided I was voting for Bernie when BLM tried to sabotage his"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

campaign on some bullshit last year.

If any of that crap had been justified, I'd probably have felt different, but the accusations made against him were ridiculous.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 06:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
124. "It was embarrassing."
In response to Reply # 120


          


>If any of that crap had been justified, I'd probably have felt
>different, but the accusations made against him were
>ridiculous.

There was zero effort to fact-check on Bernie's record. Inexcusable.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 07:07 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
125. "Anybody realize there is a debate tonight?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

They are really trying to bury these things

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Teknontheou
Charter member
32709 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 07:15 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
126. "People are actually going to watch this one, I think."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

I get the impression most people are in the house tonight.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 09:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
128. "fascinating how Clinton *still* polls at 70-80% re: non-white vote"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jan-21-16 09:19 PM by Vex_id

          

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 09:23 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
129. "Yah"
In response to Reply # 128


          

I don't get that either. There's nothing in this thread that provides an explanation other than her ties to Obama. That doesn't seem like enough to me but hey...we'll see if things change.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 09:25 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
131. "RE: fascinating how Clinton *still* polls at 70-80% re: non-white vote"
In response to Reply # 128


          



Not fascinating at all....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 09:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
132. "Bill got the juice"
In response to Reply # 128


          

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 09:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
133. "Killer Mike countering Coates was extraordinarily big-bodied: "
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.facebook.com/TheYoungTurks/videos/10153375716579205/

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sat Jan-23-16 12:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
134. "David Brock? lol. Hill-dog's pandering is shameful. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyFt-hgFDZc

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Sat Jan-23-16 02:10 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
135. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 134


          

I'm sold on Sanders and I wasn't at first. The more I get to know about him the more I like him. These guys basically nailed this analysis. I gotta check out more of their stuff cause I relate to their take.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 11:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
136. "Michelle Alexander on Hillary Clinton's Embrace of Mass Incarceration"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2016/01/29/23497407/new-jim-crow-author-michelle-alexander-on-hillary-clintons-embrace-of-mass-incarceration

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 12:39 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
137. "This is all that matters....."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jan-31-16 12:45 PM by murph71

          


As I posted in another thread, Pollster Ann Selzer is the most respected number cruncher in the game this side of Nate Silver....She usually gets it right....This is the poll (The Des Moines Register--numbers below) that EVERYONE rushes to before Monday's caucus vote...

This is def. going to be a real battle between Bernie and Clinton....I think she wins Iowa by a hair....I think Bernie wins NH because it's in his back yard...After that, things get really interesting with the minority vote being a plus for Clinton...This is political fun...Until u realize that the other side (Repugs) is scary as fuck....

Trump 28% Cruz 23% Rubio 15%...

Clinton 45% Sanders 42%...Other Dude 3%

link: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-01-30/bloomberg-politics-des-moines-register-iowa-poll-democrats

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 01:59 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
138. "Bernie panicking? (SWIPE)"
In response to Reply # 0


          



Bernie need to be careful on this one...He may turn off middle of the road Dems and minorities....Bernie cribbing from that Republican playbook....Hmmmm.....


---


Talking Points Memo

Sanders Says Hillary's Emails Are 'A Very Serious Issue'
BySARA JERDEPublishedJANUARY 31, 2016, 12:22 PM EST

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) said Sunday that rival Hillary Clinton's emails were "a very serious issue," but that he didn't want to "politicize" the issue.

Sanders told Clinton at the first Democratic debate that he thought the American people were tired of hearing about "your damn emails."

When CNN "State of the Union" host Jake Tapper asked Sanders to clarify how he felt about Clinton's emails, he said he didn't want to "politicize that issue."

"I think this is a very serious issue," Sanders said. "I think there is a legal process right now taking place. And what I have said -- and -- you know, and I get criticized. 'You know, Bernie, why don't you attack Hillary Clinton? There is a legal process taking place.' I do not want to politicize that issue. It is not my style. And what I am focusing on, Jake, are the issues impacting the middle class of this country.”

link: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-clinton-emails-serious-isse

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 03:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
139. "lol did you get that swipe from (CNN) Clinton News Network?"
In response to Reply # 138


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 03:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
142. "RE: lol did you get that swipe from (CNN) Clinton News Network?"
In response to Reply # 139


          



Nope...I got it from the MUCH MORE LIBERAL Talking Points Memo....They have been pretty even handed on that whole Bernie/Clinton matchup....

Words r words...Bernie on that side-eye Trump: I'M NOT THE ONE SAYING CRUZ IS A EVIL BASTARD...I'M JUST REPORTING WHAT "PEOPLE" SAY....lol

Hilarious...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 03:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
140. "Hillary supports policies that have harmed millions of POC+women"
In response to Reply # 138


          

I live in Detroit, where subprime predatory loans have DEVASTATED the black community, causing 100,000+home foreclosures. Hillary is COMPLETELY in bed with the banks that profited off of that economic rape. No amount of PR spin and focus on sound bites can conceal that she is bought and paid for by people who profit from prisons, mass foreclosures, and US imperialism in the Middle East, Africa, and Latin America.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 03:37 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
141. "RE: Hillary supports policies that have harmed millions of POC+women"
In response to Reply # 140


          

>I live in Detroit, where subprime predatory loans have
>DEVASTATED the black community, causing 100,000+home
>foreclosures. Hillary is COMPLETELY in bed with the banks that
>profited off of that economic rape. No amount of PR spin and
>focus on sound bites can conceal that she is bought and paid
>for by people who profit from prisons, mass foreclosures, and
>US imperialism in the Middle East, Africa, and Latin America.


Um, yeah...I'm going for who I think can win....If it's Bernie I will be riding with him...Clinton? The same...

99.9 percent of politicians got money from banks...Obama got money from the banks, too....

I'm rolling with the Democratic team..I don't want the Repugs anywhere near having the power to pick a Supreme Court justice...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 04:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
143. "so someone asked a question and he said 3 critical words "
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

while trying to move past it yet again.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 04:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
144. "3 critical words that aren't true"
In response to Reply # 143


          


It's not a "very serious issue", it's another Republican low-information insinuation campaign. Democrats are used to seeing these things as they are, and Bernie has been too, until recently.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 07:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
153. "we can't acknowledge she did something stupid?"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

cause she did do something stupid. she didn't do anything wrong, but she left herself exposed on this. her rivals for the nomination have done more to support her through this than she's been able to do for herself. that is a serious issue.

and if we're calling it as we see it: i see hillary's machine turning these traps around on bernie since they're not going away. he doesn't need to pass a loyalty test over her shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 07:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
155. "RE: Republican"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

the state department is a republican party?

i did not know that...

...and the FBI?

hmmm

HER whole defense is a circular argument

the content was deemed classified and not released to the public

and the defense of that is

release the content for the people to judge...yadda, yadda, yadda...over classification...etc...

LOL.

Bern was asked a question, and he answered the question

maybe that's a nuance HRC supporters aren't familiar with

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 04:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
145. "Krugman: Bernie Bros buying into the right-wing smear machine."
In response to Reply # 0


          


I won't swipe because he posted a picture at the end.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/pre-iowa-notes/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 05:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
146. "Berniebros like Michelle Alexander?"
In response to Reply # 145


          

Or Margaret Kimberley? Or Katrina Vanden Huevel? Or Liza Featherstone? Or Yasmin Nair? Or Barbara Ehrenreich? Does Krugman know more about feminism than them, or the many other women who don't support Clinton? I don't think so.

Also, Krugman was fear-mongering about Obama in 2008. Then, he switched sides when it was politically convenient.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 05:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
147. "RE: Berniebros like Michelle Alexander?"
In response to Reply # 146


          

>Or Margaret Kimberley? Or Katrina Vanden Huevel? Or Liza
>Featherstone? Or Yasmin Nair? Or Barbara Ehrenreich? Does
>Krugman know more about feminism than them, or the many other
>women who don't support Clinton? I don't think so.

Uhh, Krugman didn't even mention feminism here, and neither did I. You didn't just jump to conclusions from his title, or even from my title. You apparently jumped to conclusions from individual words within my title. Way to show that the Sanders supporters are interested in a reasoned discussion.

>Also, Krugman was fear-mongering about Obama in 2008. Then, he
>switched sides when it was politically convenient.

He wasn't fear-mongering about Obama. He supported Hillary because he thought she was the best candidate (and in particular because her health care plan made more sense than his, which it did, which is why that's what we ended up with). And he pointed out a few times that anyone hoping that the hope & change rhetoric could translate into a fundamental change in how politics works in America would be sorely disappointed. And he was right.

And he didn't "switch sides when it was politically convenient." He supported the eventual nominee, as I hope you will as well. The fact that Sanders supporters are falling for all the old Clinton conspiracy theories is not a good sign on that front, though.

And speaking of Obama, there's another guy who realizes that you can't just hope for a revolution. While a sitting President can't take sides in a primary, everyone seems to agree that informally he's supporting Hillary.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 06:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
149. "Wrong. I was critiquing your title."
In response to Reply # 147
Sun Jan-31-16 06:28 PM by Mansa Musa

          

In his blog post, Krugman writes about attacks on Clinton. In your title, you attribute these attacks to "Berniebros." I pointed out, accurately, that the most trenchant critics of Clinton aren't male, and are doing so on the basis of her awful policy record.

Krugman denounced Obama supporters in 2008 as "venom"-spewing, and suggested that Obama couldn't win. He has repeated similar moves in relation to Sanders. Unlike principled critics of Obama, like Adolph Reed and Glen Ford, Krugman's criticism only lasted a few months. It also wasn't just about the election; Krugman has been an apologist for Obama's neoliberal policy agenda for the last eight years. He has said what will grant him access to power, and nothing more.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 06:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
150. "No, you were trivializing, missing the point, and jumping to conclusions..."
In response to Reply # 149


          

>In his blog post, Krugman writes about attacks on Clinton. In
>your title, you attribute these attacks to "Berniebros." I
>pointed out, accurately, that the most trenchant critics of
>Clinton aren't male, and are doing so on the basis of her
>awful policy record.

So you were saying something that didn't have anything to do with anything... Thanks.

>Krugman denounced Obama supporters in 2008 as "venom"-spewing,

I was among the Obama supporters in 2008, but from what I can recall that sounds like a pretty accurate description of some of them. Just like it's a pretty accurate description of some of the Bernie Bros (male and female). A lot of low-information Obama supporters were also falling for the "Clinton scandals" nonsense in 2008. And it was just as stupid then as it is now.

>and suggested that Obama couldn't win.

I don't remember him saying it in quite those terms. I remember him saying that Hillary would have an easier time winning, which could well have been true.

But this talk about "people thought Obama was unelectable too" is really very stupid. Obama was a mainstream Democrat, with policy proposals laid out in technocratic detail, who came to public attention through a speech hailing centrist principles. Bernie Sanders is coming to public attention by calling himself a radical. To whatever extent Obama was considered "unelectable", it was merely because he was a first-term Senator with no prior national experience. Bernie Sanders is trying to build a movement around a worldview that has consistently lost elections for nearly a century now.

>He has repeated similar
>moves in relation to Sanders. Unlike principled critics of
>Obama, like Adolph Reed and Glen Ford, Krugman's criticism
>only lasted a few months.

So here you are trying to have it both ways. You dismiss Krugman's opposition to Sanders on the grounds that he wasn't an Obama supporter either. And now you say he shouldn't have been an Obama supporter.

>It also wasn't just about the
>election; Krugman has been an apologist for Obama's neoliberal
>policy agenda for the last eight years. He has said what will
>grant him access to power, and nothing more.

With regard to politics, he has stated views in the mainstream of the Democratic party, which is the ONLY way our country will make any real progress in the near future.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 07:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
154. "Wrong again"
In response to Reply # 150


          

1) I pointed out that your characterization of those attacking Clinton as "Berniebros" is false, as if there weren't countless feminist critics of Clinton.

2) No one's having it both ways. There is zero contradiction in observing that Obama had principled critics in 2008, and Krugman wasn't one of them. He was opportunistic and inconsistent on Obama, and that hasn't changed.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 08:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
157. "Sure."
In response to Reply # 154


          

>1) I pointed out that your characterization of those
>attacking Clinton as "Berniebros" is false, as if there
>weren't countless feminist critics of Clinton.

Are you saying "bros" can't be feminists, or that feminists can't be "bros"? Either way, it's completely, totally irrelevant to the discussion.

>2) No one's having it both ways. There is zero contradiction
>in observing that Obama had principled critics in 2008, and
>Krugman wasn't one of them. He was opportunistic and
>inconsistent on Obama, and that hasn't changed.

He was totally consistent on Obama. He was being realistic and technocratic. He supported who he considered to be the better candidate until she lost the primary, and then he moved on to the general election candidate, who happened to have had almost identical policy positions all along. Just because he didn't level the same criticisms at Obama as you would doesn't mean he was inconsistent; it could just mean your criticisms are irrelevant and self-defeating.


The Bernie Bros seem to think they can change the world with a single election. Some of the Obama supporters felt the same way, and they were sorely disappointed. The rest of us know that politics is about making the best progress that you actually can, and hopefully at the very least keeping everything from falling apart (as it would if the Bernie Bros succeeded in giving us a doomed general election candidate).

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 10:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
158. "I disagree with all your points, but I'm tired of this debate"
In response to Reply # 157


          

So I will agree to disagree.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 11:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
160. "RE: No, you were trivializing, missing the point, and jumping to conclus..."
In response to Reply # 150
Sun Jan-31-16 11:15 PM by murph71

          

>But this talk about "people thought Obama was unelectable too"
>is really very stupid. Obama was a mainstream Democrat, with
>policy proposals laid out in technocratic detail, who came to
>public attention through a speech hailing centrist principles.
>Bernie Sanders is coming to public attention by calling
>himself a radical. To whatever extent Obama was considered
>"unelectable", it was merely because he was a first-term
>Senator with no prior national experience.


I wish people would get this^^^^^point seared into their brain...

I'll say it again...I'm rolling with whoever gets the nomination because I don't want the Republicans in the White House....At all...

But if I see one more person claim that Obama and Bernie are the same in terms of their early Presidential candidacies I'm going to swing on somebody...lol



GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon Feb-01-16 11:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
161. "This."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          


>Way to show that the Sanders
>supporters are interested in a reasoned discussion.



Also brow beating as 'reasoned'


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 11:06 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
159. "RE: Berniebros like Michelle Alexander?"
In response to Reply # 146


          



Bernie Bros is a term that is being used to describe overzealous Bernie supporters...It has nothing to do with gender...It's just a snarky tag much in the same way Hillary-bots is...

It's politics....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 06:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
148. "lol k. "
In response to Reply # 145


          

That's rich coming from super-cynic Krugman.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 06:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
151. "There's nothing wrong with being a cynic, as long as you're right."
In response to Reply # 148


          


When people assume the Clinton "scandals" must be real, the problem is not that they're cynical, it's that they're wrong.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 07:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
152. "He was dead wrong about Obama and free-trade globalization."
In response to Reply # 151


          

http://www.thenation.com/article/why-was-paul-krugman-so-wrong/

Krugman has always been over-confident in his cynicism - and has largely
missed the mark as a champion of progressive values.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 08:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
156. "What a surprise that The Nation would oversimplify that issue."
In response to Reply # 152


          


It wasn't just a matter of opinion when he admitted that globalization was inevitable and, overall, a positive force (neither he nor any serious person said it would be good for everybody). It was simply a matter of the facts. Facts that have borne themselves out, outside of rhetorical echo chambers.

"The failure belongs to macroeconomics, an intellectual discipline now in shambles."

Statements like this make it harder for us to accuse the Republicans of anti-intellectualism.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Feb-11-16 09:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
164. "Oh, that's what you think Michelle Alexander did?"
In response to Reply # 156


          

telling.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Feb-11-16 08:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
162. "lol @ the CBC."
In response to Reply # 0


          

What a peculiar (yet predictable) display by the Congressional Black Caucus to come out and unfairly attempt to discredit Senator Sanders today. As has become customary from Establishment politicians - they criticize Sanders with scathing (yet wildly inaccurate) critiques -- and then turn into Chicken Little when it's time to address Clinton's record/history. Certainly - members of the CBC are vying for important appointments from a potential Clinton Administration and see this as their chance to get in good with the Old Clinton Powerhourse Machine.

Rep. John Lewis (whom I have great respect for) actually had the audacity today to call into question Bernie's record on Civil Rights (which is flawless and clearly demonstrated over the course of several decades - unlike the Clintonian prison-industrial complex builders who have presided over the absurd proliferation of black incarceration). Lewis actually said, "I didn't see him" during the civil rights era in what was an embarrassing display of weak deference to the Clintons. You know who else Lewis didn't see during the Civil Rights era? Hillary Clinton. Why? Because as Bernie Sanders was being arrested in the 60's for protesting segregation in Chicago (fact) - Clinton was campaigning for a segregationist (Goldwater). Interesting that Lewis failed to bring that up.

Whether it's the DNC or the CBC - they are out of touch with this new generation of progressivism that will no longer accept their uninspiring status-quo consensus that has done little to bring this nation forward.

You had your turn - now it's ours.
-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Feb-11-16 08:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
163. "Hillary Clinton Does Not Deserve the Black Vote (Alexander) "
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

Hillary Clinton loves black people. And black people love Hillary—or so it seems. Black politicians have lined up in droves to endorse her, eager to prove their loyalty to the Clintons in the hopes that their faithfulness will be remembered and rewarded. Black pastors are opening their church doors, and the Clintons are making themselves comfortably at home once again, engaging effortlessly in all the usual rituals associated with “courting the black vote,” a pursuit that typically begins and ends with Democratic politicians making black people feel liked and taken seriously. Doing something concrete to improve the conditions under which most black people live is generally not required.


Hillary is looking to gain momentum on the campaign trail as the primaries move out of Iowa and New Hampshire and into states like South Carolina, where large pockets of black voters can be found. According to some polls, she leads Bernie Sanders by as much as 60 percent among African Americans. It seems that we—black people—are her winning card, one that Hillary is eager to play.

And it seems we’re eager to get played. Again.

The love affair between black folks and the Clintons has been going on for a long time. It began back in 1992, when Bill Clinton was running for president. He threw on some shades and played the saxophone on The Arsenio Hall Show. It seems silly in retrospect, but many of us fell for that. At a time when a popular slogan was “It’s a black thing, you wouldn’t understand,” Bill Clinton seemed to get us. When Toni Morrison dubbed him our first black president, we nodded our heads. We had our boy in the White House. Or at least we thought we did.

Black voters have been remarkably loyal to the Clintons for more than 25 years. It’s true that we eventually lined up behind Barack Obama in 2008, but it’s a measure of the Clinton allure that Hillary led Obama among black voters until he started winning caucuses and primaries. Now Hillary is running again. This time she’s facing a democratic socialist who promises a political revolution that will bring universal healthcare, a living wage, an end to rampant Wall Street greed, and the dismantling of the vast prison state—many of the same goals that Martin Luther King Jr. championed at the end of his life. Even so, black folks are sticking with the Clinton brand.

What have the Clintons done to earn such devotion? Did they take extreme political risks to defend the rights of African Americans? Did they courageously stand up to right-wing demagoguery about black communities? Did they help usher in a new era of hope and prosperity for neighborhoods devastated by deindustrialization, globalization, and the disappearance of work?

No. Quite the opposite.

* * *

When Bill Clinton ran for president in 1992, urban black communities across America were suffering from economic collapse. Hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs had vanished as factories moved overseas in search of cheaper labor, a new plantation. Globalization and deindustrialization affected workers of all colors but hit African Americans particularly hard. Unemployment rates among young black men had quadrupled as the rate of industrial employment plummeted. Crime rates spiked in inner-city communities that had been dependent on factory jobs, while hopelessness, despair, and crack addiction swept neighborhoods that had once been solidly working-class. Millions of black folks—many of whom had fled Jim Crow segregation in the South with the hope of obtaining decent work in Northern factories—were suddenly trapped in racially segregated, jobless ghettos.

On the campaign trail, Bill Clinton made the economy his top priority and argued persuasively that conservatives were using race to divide the nation and divert attention from the failed economy. In practice, however, he capitulated entirely to the right-wing backlash against the civil-rights movement and embraced former president Ronald Reagan’s agenda on race, crime, welfare, and taxes—ultimately doing more harm to black communities than Reagan ever did.

We should have seen it coming. Back then, Clinton was the standard-bearer for the New Democrats, a group that firmly believed the only way to win back the millions of white voters in the South who had defected to the Republican Party was to adopt the right-wing narrative that black communities ought to be disciplined with harsh punishment rather than coddled with welfare. Reagan had won the presidency by dog-whistling to poor and working-class whites with coded racial appeals: railing against “welfare queens” and criminal “predators” and condemning “big government.” Clinton aimed to win them back, vowing that he would never permit any Republican to be perceived as tougher on crime than he.

Just weeks before the critical New Hampshire primary, Clinton proved his toughness by flying back to Arkansas to oversee the execution of Ricky Ray Rector, a mentally impaired black man who had so little conception of what was about to happen to him that he asked for the dessert from his last meal to be saved for him for later. After the execution, Clinton remarked, “I can be nicked a lot, but no one can say I’m soft on crime.”

As president, Bill Clinton mastered the art of sending mixed cultural messages.
Clinton mastered the art of sending mixed cultural messages, appealing to African Americans by belting out “Lift Every Voice and Sing” in black churches, while at the same time signaling to poor and working-class whites that he was willing to be tougher on black communities than Republicans had been.

Clinton was praised for his no-nonsense, pragmatic approach to racial politics. He won the election and appointed a racially diverse cabinet that “looked like America.” He won re-election four years later, and the American economy rebounded. Democrats cheered. The Democratic Party had been saved. The Clintons won. Guess who lost?

* * *

Bill Clinton presided over the largest increase in federal and state prison inmates of any president in American history. Clinton did not declare the War on Crime or the War on Drugs—those wars were declared before Reagan was elected and long before crack hit the streets—but he escalated it beyond what many conservatives had imagined possible. He supported the 100-to-1 sentencing disparity for crack versus powder cocaine, which produced staggering racial injustice in sentencing and boosted funding for drug-law enforcement.

Clinton championed the idea of a federal “three strikes” law in his 1994 State of the Union address and, months later, signed a $30 billion crime bill that created dozens of new federal capital crimes, mandated life sentences for some three-time offenders, and authorized more than $16 billion for state prison grants and the expansion of police forces. The legislation was hailed by mainstream-media outlets as a victory for the Democrats, who “were able to wrest the crime issue from the Republicans and make it their own.”

When Clinton left office in 2001, the United States had the highest rate of incarceration in the world. Human Rights Watch reported that in seven states, African Americans constituted 80 to 90 percent of all drug offenders sent to prison, even though they were no more likely than whites to use or sell illegal drugs. Prison admissions for drug offenses reached a level in 2000 for African Americans more than 26 times the level in 1983. All of the presidents since 1980 have contributed to mass incarceration, but as Equal Justice Initiative founder Bryan Stevenson recently observed, “President Clinton’s tenure was the worst.”

Some might argue that it’s unfair to judge Hillary Clinton for the policies her husband championed years ago. But Hillary wasn’t picking out china while she was first lady. She bravely broke the mold and redefined that job in ways no woman ever had before. She not only campaigned for Bill; she also wielded power and significant influence once he was elected, lobbying for legislation and other measures. That record, and her statements from that era, should be scrutinized. In her support for the 1994 crime bill, for example, she used racially coded rhetoric to cast black children as animals. “They are not just gangs of kids anymore,” she said. “They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘super-predators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel.”

Both Clintons now express regret over the crime bill, and Hillary says she supports criminal-justice reforms to undo some of the damage that was done by her husband’s administration. But on the campaign trail, she continues to invoke the economy and country that Bill Clinton left behind as a legacy she would continue. So what exactly did the Clinton economy look like for black Americans? Taking a hard look at this recent past is about more than just a choice between two candidates. It’s about whether the Democratic Party can finally reckon with what its policies have done to African-American communities, and whether it can redeem itself and rightly earn the loyalty of black voters.

* * *

An oft-repeated myth about the Clinton administration is that although it was overly tough on crime back in the 1990s, at least its policies were good for the economy and for black unemployment rates. The truth is more troubling. As unemployment rates sank to historically low levels for white Americans in the 1990s, the jobless rate among black men in their 20s who didn’t have a college degree rose to its highest level ever. This increase in joblessness was propelled by the skyrocketing incarceration rate.

Why is this not common knowledge? Because government statistics like poverty and unemployment rates do not include incarcerated people. As Harvard sociologist Bruce Western explains: “Much of the optimism about declines in racial inequality and the power of the US model of economic growth is misplaced once we account for the invisible poor, behind the walls of America’s prisons and jails.” When Clinton left office in 2001, the true jobless rate for young, non-college-educated black men (including those behind bars) was 42 percent. This figure was never reported. Instead, the media claimed that unemployment rates for African Americans had fallen to record lows, neglecting to mention that this miracle was possible only because incarceration rates were now at record highs. Young black men weren’t looking for work at high rates during the Clinton era because they were now behind bars—out of sight, out of mind, and no longer counted in poverty and unemployment statistics.


To make matters worse, the federal safety net for poor families was torn to shreds by the Clinton administration in its effort to “end welfare as we know it.” In his 1996 State of the Union address, given during his re-election campaign, Clinton declared that “the era of big government is over” and immediately sought to prove it by dismantling the federal welfare system known as Aid to Families With Dependent Children (AFDC). The welfare-reform legislation that he signed—which Hillary Clinton ardently supported then and characterized as a success as recently as 2008—replaced the federal safety net with a block grant to the states, imposed a five-year lifetime limit on welfare assistance, added work requirements, barred undocumented immigrants from licensed professions, and slashed overall public welfare funding by $54 billion (some was later restored).

They are not just gangs of kids anymore…they are ‘super-predators.’ —Hillary Clinton, speaking in support of the 1994 crime bill
Experts and pundits disagree about the true impact of welfare reform, but one thing seems clear: Extreme poverty doubled to 1.5 million in the decade and a half after the law was passed. What is extreme poverty? US households are considered to be in extreme poverty if they are surviving on cash incomes of no more than $2 per person per day in any given month. We tend to think of extreme poverty existing in Third World countries, but here in the United States, shocking numbers of people are struggling to survive on less money per month than many families spend in one evening dining out. Currently, the United States, the richest nation on the planet, has one of the highest child-poverty rates in the developed world.

Despite claims that radical changes in crime and welfare policy were driven by a desire to end big government and save taxpayer dollars, the reality is that the Clinton administration didn’t reduce the amount of money devoted to the management of the urban poor; it changed what the funds would be used for. Billions of dollars were slashed from public-housing and child-welfare budgets and transferred to the mass-incarceration machine. By 1996, the penal budget was twice the amount that had been allocated to food stamps. During Clinton’s tenure, funding for public housing was slashed by $17 billion (a reduction of 61 percent), while funding for corrections was boosted by $19 billion (an increase of 171 percent), according to sociologist Loïc Wacquant “effectively making the construction of prisons the nation’s main housing program for the urban poor.”

Bill Clinton championed discriminatory laws against formerly incarcerated people that have kept millions of Americans locked in a cycle of poverty and desperation. The Clinton administration eliminated Pell grants for prisoners seeking higher education to prepare for their release, supported laws denying federal financial aid to students with drug convictions, and signed legislation imposing a lifetime ban on welfare and food stamps for anyone convicted of a felony drug offense—an exceptionally harsh provision given the racially biased drug war that was raging in inner cities.


Perhaps most alarming, Clinton also made it easier for public-housing agencies to deny shelter to anyone with any sort of criminal history (even an arrest without conviction) and championed the “one strike and you’re out” initiative, which meant that families could be evicted from public housing because one member (or a guest) had committed even a minor offense. People released from prison with no money, no job, and nowhere to go could no longer return home to their loved ones living in federally assisted housing without placing the entire family at risk of eviction. Purging “the criminal element” from public housing played well on the evening news, but no provisions were made for people and families as they were forced out on the street. By the end of Clinton’s presidency, more than half of working-age African-American men in many large urban areas were saddled with criminal records and subject to legalized discrimination in employment, housing, access to education, and basic public benefits—relegated to a permanent second-class status eerily reminiscent of Jim Crow.

It is difficult to overstate the damage that’s been done. Generations have been lost to the prison system; countless families have been torn apart or rendered homeless; and a school-to-prison pipeline has been born that shuttles young people from their decrepit, underfunded schools to brand-new high-tech prisons.

* * *

It didn’t have to be like this. As a nation, we had a choice. Rather than spending billions of dollars constructing a vast new penal system, those billions could have been spent putting young people to work in inner-city communities and investing in their schools so they might have some hope of making the transition from an industrial to a service-based economy. Constructive interventions would have been good not only for African Americans trapped in ghettos, but for blue-collar workers of all colors. At the very least, Democrats could have fought to prevent the further destruction of black communities rather than ratcheting up the wars declared on them.

Of course, it can be said that it’s unfair to criticize the Clintons for punishing black people so harshly, given that many black people were on board with the “get tough” movement too. It is absolutely true that black communities back then were in a state of crisis, and that many black activists and politicians were desperate to get violent offenders off the streets. What is often missed, however, is that most of those black activists and politicians weren’t asking only for toughness. They were also demanding investment in their schools, better housing, jobs programs for young people, economic-stimulus packages, drug treatment on demand, and better access to healthcare. In the end, they wound up with police and prisons. To say that this was what black people wanted is misleading at best.

By 1996, the penal budget was twice the amount that had been allocated to food stamps.
To be fair, the Clintons now feel bad about how their politics and policies have worked out for black people. Bill says that he “overshot the mark” with his crime policies; and Hillary has put forth a plan to ban racial profiling, eliminate the sentencing disparities between crack and cocaine, and abolish private prisons, among other measures.


But what about a larger agenda that would not just reverse some of the policies adopted during the Clinton era, but would rebuild the communities decimated by them? If you listen closely here, you’ll notice that Hillary Clinton is still singing the same old tune in a slightly different key. She is arguing that we ought not be seduced by Bernie’s rhetoric because we must be “pragmatic,” “face political realities,” and not get tempted to believe that we can fight for economic justice and win. When politicians start telling you that it is “unrealistic” to support candidates who want to build a movement for greater equality, fair wages, universal healthcare, and an end to corporate control of our political system, it’s probably best to leave the room.

This is not an endorsement for Bernie Sanders, who after all voted for the 1994 crime bill. I also tend to agree with Ta-Nehisi Coates that the way the Sanders campaign handled the question of reparations is one of many signs that Bernie doesn’t quite get what’s at stake in serious dialogues about racial justice. He was wrong to dismiss reparations as “divisive,” as though centuries of slavery, segregation, discrimination, ghettoization, and stigmatization aren’t worthy of any specific acknowledgement or remedy.

But recognizing that Bernie, like Hillary, has blurred vision when it comes to race is not the same thing as saying their views are equally problematic. Sanders opposed the 1996 welfare-reform law. He also opposed bank deregulation and the Iraq War, both of which Hillary supported, and both of which have proved disastrous. In short, there is such a thing as a lesser evil, and Hillary is not it.

The biggest problem with Bernie, in the end, is that he’s running as a Democrat—as a member of a political party that not only capitulated to right-wing demagoguery but is now owned and controlled by a relatively small number of millionaires and billionaires. Yes, Sanders has raised millions from small donors, but should he become president, he would also become part of what he has otherwise derided as “the establishment.” Even if Bernie’s racial-justice views evolve, I hold little hope that a political revolution will occur within the Democratic Party without a sustained outside movement forcing truly transformational change. I am inclined to believe that it would be easier to build a new party than to save the Democratic Party from itself.

Of course, the idea of building a new political party terrifies most progressives, who understandably fear that it would open the door for a right-wing extremist to get elected. So we play the game of lesser evils. This game has gone on for decades. W.E.B. Du Bois, the eminent scholar and co-founder of the NAACP, shocked many when he refused to play along with this game in the 1956 election, defending his refusal to vote on the grounds that “there is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I do or say.” While the true losers and winners of this game are highly predictable, the game of lesser evils makes for great entertainment and can now be viewed 24 hours a day on cable-news networks. Hillary believes that she can win this game in 2016 because this time she’s got us, the black vote, in her back pocket—her lucky card.

She may be surprised to discover that the younger generation no longer wants to play her game. Or maybe not. Maybe we’ll all continue to play along and pretend that we don’t know how it will turn out in the end. Hopefully, one day, we’ll muster the courage to join together in a revolutionary movement with people of all colors who believe that basic human rights and economic, racial, and gender justice are not unreasonable, pie-in-the-sky goals. After decades of getting played, the sleeping giant just might wake up, stretch its limbs, and tell both parties: Game over. Move aside. It’s time to reshuffle this deck.
-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 12:01 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
166. "John Lewis on Bernie vs. Clinton Civil Rights activism (vid)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Where ya ass was at (c)

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/john-lewis-speaks-bernie-sanders-civil-activism-36865670

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 12:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
167. "Where she was: campaigning for a far-right segregationist"
In response to Reply # 166
Fri Feb-12-16 12:36 AM by Mansa Musa

          

Much respect to John Lewis. He's a heavyweight. And Bernie's civil rights credentials are nothing particularly special. BUT the time period he's referring to, if we're going to bring it up in this campaign, is one in which Hillary was opposed to what he was fighting for, and Bernie was for it. So the whole discussion is ridiculous.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jswerve386
Member since Jun 25th 2007
8979 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 12:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
168. "RE: John Lewis on Bernie vs. Clinton Civil Rights activism (vid)"
In response to Reply # 166
Fri Feb-12-16 12:33 AM by jswerve386

  

          

tired of these old negro spiritual throwbacks. bout as irrelevant to today's issues as Gloria Steinem is to feminists.

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5627 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 12:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
169. "Shaun King is ripping John Lewis apart on Facebook"
In response to Reply # 166
Fri Feb-12-16 12:55 AM by Sofian_Hadi

          

Over this blatant bullsh*t

https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/photos/a.799605230078397.1073741828.799539910084929/990311794341072/?type=3&theater

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AZ
Charter member
12930 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 01:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
170. "He also supported Hillary against Obama"
In response to Reply # 166


          

He's a longtime Hilbot
Let's hope history repeats itself

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Jay Doz
Member since Dec 13th 2005
8663 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 08:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
179. "he did... until he didn't"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/27/lewis-switches-from-clinton-to-obama/

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
melmag
Charter member
18469 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 07:05 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
181. "I'm mad this isnt gaining more traction"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca-WrhdVAAAnTrL.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 11:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
182. "Have you read this?"
In response to Reply # 181
Fri Feb-12-16 11:34 PM by Mansa Musa

          

It's an interesting read.

https://thesouthlawn.org/2016/02/12/an-open-letter-to-rep-john-lewis/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 11:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
183. "its beautiful"
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

and so antithetical to how so many people today envision politics/change working.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Sat Feb-13-16 03:22 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
184. "I don't trust any of these old civil rights cats with anything."
In response to Reply # 166


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 01:17 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
171. "This has become much clearer to me and it's pretty simple."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Hillary's presidency would be an extension of Obama's. So the way it's being framed:

A vote for Sanders is a vote AGAINST Obama.


It's not completely unfair to say that either. Perhaps Bernie needs to come out and address it directly. There's really no other possible response for him other than trying to change the subject. Hillary will continue hammering it home over and over again and it'll work. In the long run...Bernie's probably best off acknowledging this and than trying to make the case that he will be more proactive in race-related policy than Obama. It wouldn't be a hard argument to make.....but it'll have to cut through the unexamined/blind allegiance to Obama. People will accept Clinton's policies simply by virtue of the fact that they are similar to Obama.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 01:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
172. "Even though she race-baited him in 2008"
In response to Reply # 171
Fri Feb-12-16 01:35 AM by Mansa Musa

          

...and is more right-wing than Obama.

Which is not to say that I disagree with you. All of this makes sense in the tactical war for black voters. But manipulative pandering aside, Obama was essentially a Clinton Democrat, in his embrace of Wall Street, support for trade agreements written by corporate lawyers, and his support for school privatization and "small government."

Lots of working-class voters, including African-Americans, are receptive to a harsh critique of the current economy and the way it works. If Hillary makes those critiques all about The First Black President, she might be able to deflect. But the whole "black people won't listen to critiques of Obama" line we keep hearing from pundits is as racist as Steinem's comments about women were. The real issue isn't Obama, but the elites who benefit from increasing inequality.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 01:51 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
173. "RE: Even though she race-baited him in 2008"
In response to Reply # 172


          

Well they're voting for Hillary so far it seems. And Hillary invoking Obama was the dominant theme of the debate tonight. It wasn't by accident. That's how Clinton is courting the minority vote.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 02:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
174. "Bernie does best with younger black voters"
In response to Reply # 173


          

The most recent polls I've seen show him getting nearly half the younger black vote, but Hillary dominating among older black voters.

This makes sense. Black voters have more to lose from a Republican victory than white voters, and older ones remember how the Republican Party ran against the Civil Rights movement (and absorbed the Dixiecrats like Strom Thurmond).

It's a little bit like how older vs. younger women voters are reacting to Hillary.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 02:45 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
175. "Hmmmm.."
In response to Reply # 174
Fri Feb-12-16 02:48 AM by denny

          

That's an interesting theory and I don't think it's even been mentioned above yet.

From what I can understand what you're saying....Bernie is suffering from a lack of minority voters because minorities are more likely to vote stategically than white people. They have more to fear in a Republican president so it's in their interests to be more cautious of Bernie.

Makes alot of sense. Perhaps that's the skeleton key to this whole thread. I mean, it's goes without saying that all democrats may consider voting for Hillary because she is more electable. But you're saying that it's a particularly strong consideration for minorities....moreso than whites. Certainly the most rational explanation I've heard for why blacks/latinos are supporting Hilary.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
382 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 02:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
176. "The best analysis I've seen is from Glen Ford..."
In response to Reply # 175


          

Ford is a harsh critic of Sanders, and a far harsher critic of Clinton. He thinks the problem is the Democratic Party, and he's probably right in the long run. His analysis of how the Republicans' open embrace of white supremacy creates a captive constituency that the likes of Clinton exploit is trenchant and worth reading.

http://blackagendareport.com/victor_of_fear_blacks_and_dems

Vector of Fear: Blacks and the Democratic Party

Submitted by Glen Ford on Wed, 02/03/2016 - 14:33

Bernie Sanders has succeeded in stalling the Clinton juggernaut in Iowa, and is expecting a resounding victory next week in New Hampshire. However, the euphoria will fade as his supporters confront the likelihood that their quest to transform the Democratic Party “from below” will be derailed in the South by Blacks, who are the decisive bloc, or outright majorities, in the region’s Democratic primaries, and who make up about a quarter of the Party’s support, nationwide. It is a great paradox that the Sanders campaign will almost certainly be rejected by the very voters whose fundamental political leanings are most closely aligned with the “Scandinavian social democratic” model on which Sanders has based his career.

Black voting behavior over the past two generations all but guarantees they will back the national Democratic candidate they perceive as most likely to defeat the Republicans – the “White Man’s Party.” White supremacy and the rule of capital in the U.S. are buttressed, electorally, by two pillars: 1) the bifurcation of the major party system into a White Man’s Party, whose organizing principle is white supremacy, and another party that is somewhat more inclusive of Blacks and other “minorities,” and 2) control of both parties by capital. For Blacks, the Democratic Party is a trap within a trap. If the overarching, perceived necessity is to block the Republican/White Man’s Party at every electoral juncture, then Blacks see no option but to huddle under the Democratic tent, despite the fact that it is, like the Republicans, a Rich Man’s Party.

“Fear turns Black politics on its head.”

It is a politics of fear, born of generations of raw terror at the hands of the White Man’s Party. The modern Democratic Party, like the post-Civil War Republican Party, is not a haven, but an enclosure, which Blacks fear to exit. At root, Black participation in the Democratic Party is not a matter of free allegiance, but the perception that there is no other effective means to hold back the barbarians of the White Man’s Party.

In practice, it is institutionalized group panic, a stampede every four years. Blacks are drawn into the jaws of the Democratic Party, not by ideological affinity, but in search of protection from the Republicans. This is an entirely different dynamic than an alignment based on thoughtful examination of political platforms. It’s not about picking a candidate or party that sees the world as most Black people do, from the left side of the spectrum, on matters of social justice and peace. Rather, the overarching objective is to choose a candidate from the Democratic wing of the Rich Man’s duopoly who is best equipped to defeat his or her Republican counterpart. Under these stilted circumstances, the Democratic candidate’s actual political positions become near-irrelevant to the Black primary voter, compared to the candidate’s perceived ability to win a national election. The question becomes, is the Democrat strong enough to beat back the latest offensive from the GOP? – which Black people perceive as an existential threat. In the grip of that mindset, the contestant that is richer, better connected to the party apparatus and more acceptable to masses of white voters is the better Black choice.

“The modern Democratic Party is not a haven, but an enclosure, which Blacks fear to exit.”

When the voter is seeking protection from what is seen as the greater, more racist evil, rather than searching for a candidate and party that takes positions more aligned with the Black political world view, independent politics goes out the window. Indeed, independent, leftist electoral campaigns can be viewed as a going AWOL from the fight, or worse, collaborating with the Republican enemy. Fear turns Black politics on its head. Since Black people are the most left-leaning constituency in the United States, the paradoxical nature of their behavior in national elections renders problematical the whole question of independent Left and Black electoral activity.

In 2008, Black voters did not support Dennis Kucinich, a more genuine social democrat and peace candidate than Bernie Sanders, or John Edwards, who kicked off his campaign in New Orleans and positioned himself significantly to the left of the ideological twins, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. About half of Black Democrats did not favor Barack Obama until he won white favor in Iowa, thus proving to Black voters that he could beat the Republicans. Blacks voted for Jesse Jackson in his 1984 and ’88 primary campaigns, but he opted out of an independent run for president, preferring to remain in the role of “power broker” within the Democratic enclosure. It’s not likely that Black voters would have supported Jackson in an independent race, anyway. When Ted Kennedy challenged Jimmy Carter from the Left, in 1980, his effort collapsed largely from lack of support from Black elected officials, who stuck with the Georgia peanut farmer even after he had shown himself to be a deeply conservative politician (a founding “neoliberal”) whose austerity policies opened the door to Ronald Reagan.

“About half of Black Democrats did not favor Barack Obama until he won white favor in Iowa.”

The Black Radical Tradition is real and enduring, but it is not expressed through participation in the Democratic Party. Rather, entrapment in the Democratic Party enclosure (within the larger Rich Man’s duopoly) grotesquely warps Black political behavior. This distortion profoundly diminishes the prospects for progressive electoral activity in the United States. More directly, the Black electoral imperative to seek protection from the Republican/White Man’s Party reduces African Americans to an appendage of the Democratic Party apparatus, and thus of the capitalists that fund and control the Party. It subverts the essentially progressive nature of the Black polity, objectively enfeebling Black America, even as rich white Democrats pander to Black voters as the “soul” of the party.

It is true that the Democrats would collapse were it not for the Black core of the party. It is also probable that that would be a good thing. What is certain is that the Democratic Party oozes out of every orifice of Black civic society like a stinking pus, sapping the self-determinist vitality of the people and transforming every Black social structure and project into a Democratic Party asset.

Black people – massed, organized, and fearless – shook this nation to its bones in the 1960s, before the Democratic Party achieved political hegemony in Black America; when there were less than two handfuls of Black congressional representatives and only some hundreds of Black Democratic officeholders to hold us back. Today, Democratic operatives attempt to smother the incipient Black grassroots movement in their lethal embrace – and some elements of that movement have eagerly hugged them back. The task of Black activists and their allies is to ensure that our first and last hope – movement politics – once again becomes central to the struggle, so that we can, as Dr. Cornel West puts it, “break the back of fear.” This will require the most intense internal struggle among Black Americans to break the chains that bind us to that vector of fear, the Democratic Party.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 04:47 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
177. "Good read."
In response to Reply # 176


          

I think that's the answer to this post. So I guess the question becomes.....can Bernie convince black voters that he's electable?

According to this theory....Bernie could could run on a platform of financial reparations to the black electorate and it wouldn't matter. Might even backfire because they would percieve it as making him less electable and thereby putting the more racist party in power. Interesting.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49387 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 06:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
178. "More like Obama administrations was an extension of the Clintons"
In response to Reply # 171


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 08:56 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
180. "Nah. I don't think so"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

We get into Obama for avoiding race, but looking at his slow dismantling of the public school to prison pipelines, using the att. general as a pitbull against systemic racism, etc.

Even ignoring the big crime bill elephant in the room, ultimately race 'didn't exist' in the Clinton era even though you had Rodney King and rampant crime in the inner city.

What Clinton DID do was pander towards us like a motherfucker, which was appreciated at a time where we felt we were political pariah's even in the democratic party

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Feb-25-16 05:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
185. "It's amazing how bad Clinton is at this #NotASuperPredator"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqLfvQfuvsA&feature=youtu.be

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Wed Mar-02-16 06:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
186. "Clinton got 85% of the black vote on Super Tuesday"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Absolutely fascinating.

Some Conservatives poll better in general elections re: the black vote than Bernie lol.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Wed Mar-02-16 06:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
187. "I knew he'd have trouble. But I didn't expect this much trouble"
In response to Reply # 186


          

The only thing I can think to explain it is time. She has put in a lot of time making inroads with black voters during her time as first lady (and piggy backing off Bill's efforts too) and during he 2008 run.

She's familiar to them. They "know" her. Sanders is the untrustworthy old dude who just showed up a couple of months ago

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
stattic
Charter member
29791 posts
Thu Mar-03-16 08:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
188. "He's not a Democrat and was never going to win for that alone"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Thu Mar-03-16 08:58 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
189. "Yup. He seems disconnected. It's not his fault though"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

and funny enough I think this is where age plays a part...if you're a Black Southern voter all you are going to see is ANOTHER old white probably racist man.

Bernie ain't that, pretty much every city has a Bernie who owns the old bookstore right off campus who KNOWS his black shit in addition to Kafka and where the best coffee is.

If bernie still looked like this:

http://www.motherjones.com/files/berniemayor.jpg

I think the black vote might have been an easier grab.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
poetx
Charter member
58856 posts
Thu Mar-03-16 09:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
190. "other thing is that there's a pragmatism to black voting. "
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

black folks ain't wanna believe in obama, initially. there was a lotta, "i'll hold my nose and wait for clinton" shit the first time around.

when o started picking up momentum and it looked like this would not be a protest or wasted vote, THAT's when we got on board, and then turned out.

to *my* ears, bernie's economic populism is very appealing, but i don't see a specific appeal that is going to really galvanize and enthrall the masses of black people. and the prog/left insistence on the primacy of class over race is lowkey offputting. this shit goes back a hundred years, when the communist party was actively courting af ams, and black people were viewing that as a viable solution.

ultimately, tho, wasn't nobody getting beaten in the street or redlined (no pun intended) based upon suspicion of communism. Sure, if you declared yourself a communist or a socialist, you would catch hell. but without that you could find shelter in your day to day life under cover of whiteness.

so while class based analysis says a LOT about what goes on in this country and globally, it falls apart when it fails to consider the unique obstacles of systemic racism.

so, from the same mainstream black perspective that was skeptical af of barack, we look at dude like, "he saying some good shit, but his appeal ain't *PRIMARILY* or *UNIQUELY* to me, same as any other politician and, unless i'm sure he's gonna win, i'm gonna put my chips with what i *think* can win".


>Bernie ain't that, pretty much every city has a Bernie who
>owns the old bookstore right off campus who KNOWS his black
>shit in addition to Kafka and where the best coffee is.
>
>If bernie still looked like this:
>
>http://www.motherjones.com/files/berniemayor.jpg
>
>I think the black vote might have been an easier grab.

the black left is very familiar w/ that archetype. black mainstream, not so much.




peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Mar-03-16 10:03 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
191. "RE: other thing is that there's a pragmatism to black voting. "
In response to Reply # 190


          




Basically....^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 01:48 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
206. "^wisdom that bore itself out later"
In response to Reply # 190


          

>black folks ain't wanna believe in obama, initially. there
>was a lotta, "i'll hold my nose and wait for clinton" shit the
>first time around.
>
>when o started picking up momentum and it looked like this
>would not be a protest or wasted vote, THAT's when we got on
>board, and then turned out.
>
>to *my* ears, bernie's economic populism is very appealing,
>but i don't see a specific appeal that is going to really
>galvanize and enthrall the masses of black people. and the
>prog/left insistence on the primacy of class over race is
>lowkey offputting. this shit goes back a hundred years, when
>the communist party was actively courting af ams, and black
>people were viewing that as a viable solution.
>
>ultimately, tho, wasn't nobody getting beaten in the street or
>redlined (no pun intended) based upon suspicion of communism.
>Sure, if you declared yourself a communist or a socialist, you
>would catch hell. but without that you could find shelter in
>your day to day life under cover of whiteness.
>
>so while class based analysis says a LOT about what goes on in
>this country and globally, it falls apart when it fails to
>consider the unique obstacles of systemic racism.
>
>so, from the same mainstream black perspective that was
>skeptical af of barack, we look at dude like, "he saying some
>good shit, but his appeal ain't *PRIMARILY* or *UNIQUELY* to
>me, same as any other politician and, unless i'm sure he's
>gonna win, i'm gonna put my chips with what i *think* can
>win".
>
>
>>Bernie ain't that, pretty much every city has a Bernie who
>>owns the old bookstore right off campus who KNOWS his black
>>shit in addition to Kafka and where the best coffee is.
>>
>>If bernie still looked like this:
>>
>>http://www.motherjones.com/files/berniemayor.jpg
>>
>>I think the black vote might have been an easier grab.
>
>the black left is very familiar w/ that archetype. black
>mainstream, not so much.
>
>
>
>
>peace & blessings,
>
>x.
>
>www.twitter.com/poetx
>
>=========================================
>I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
>focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
>
>not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Fri Apr-01-16 09:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
192. "this post started a year ago - finally there is a shift."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Took nearly 10 months - but that gap is closing.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Fri Apr-01-16 07:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
193. "Clinton support collapsing among non-white voters (daily kos)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/1/1508876/-Clinton-s-Support-Collapsing

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

AbdulJaleel
Charter member
23892 posts
Fri Aug-16-19 04:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
194. "i'm still like him"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'll vote for him

www.instagram.com/schemeofthings

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri Aug-16-19 05:34 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
195. "lol vex you gotta come back and explain yourself lmao."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Fri Aug-16-19 07:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
196. "explain what?"
In response to Reply # 195


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
rawsouthpaw
Charter member
15496 posts
Fri Aug-16-19 10:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
197. "a major related thing he did was revamp his campaign with poc"
In response to Reply # 195
Fri Aug-16-19 10:15 PM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

in response to criticism from 2016

https://activatenow.us/bernie-sanders-2020-presidential-campaign-staff/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Mar-05-20 11:31 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
202. "howd that go?"
In response to Reply # 197


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Aug-20-19 01:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
199. ""The Quiet Death of the Bernie Bro Attack" "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Looks like this post can be put to rest, since Bernie no longer has a "minority voter problem."

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/08/bernie-sanders-white-bernie-bro-race-2020-democratic-primary-pew-poll
-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Wed Aug-21-19 09:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
200. "it's always been a generational thing (mostly) which is hilarious af"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

because the dude is old af.

dude's like Corbyn, he's been where he is for years.

and while there are legit concerns as a non-white voting about how "colorblind" some of these policies can be (when this happens, it's a gateway for antiblackness to seep in, even unintentional)... it's mostly the 45-and under crowd behind Bernie.

another thing I think many East Coast politicians struggle with is grabbing the South. Even though under the electoral college it's red af, it's also Black af as far as Democratic voting is concerned. Voters skew older. I think that's more the issue. Even Obama had a lil trouble here before he swept Iowa and some of the early states in 2008. by the time he got to SC things really shifted. East Coasters and Northeasterners are seen as elitist on GP. I think that's why Killer Mike jumped on the bandwagon, to try and dispel that.

I'd like to see how he handles these. I always said if Bernie takes the Carolinas, he's got these.

I guarantee a younger candidate maybe from the Midwest or CA talking the same shit as Bernie with the same base would sweep tf outta everyone.

Americans are weird man.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Aug-22-19 09:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
201. "Yes - in 2016 the generational demographics were fascinating"
In response to Reply # 200


          

Sanders was drawing from a diverse *younger* electorate (40 and under) in 2016, so it showed that he didn't struggle to attract diverse voters, it's just that he struggled with older voters - particularly in the south where many democrats are center-right.

>dude's like Corbyn, he's been where he is for years.

What's funny is that in comparison to Corbyn, Sanders is a moderate lol. In Europe Sanders would essentially be a center-left politician.

>and while there are legit concerns as a non-white voting about
>how "colorblind" some of these policies can be (when this
>happens, it's a gateway for antiblackness to seep in, even
>unintentional)... it's mostly the 45-and under crowd behind
>Bernie.

What colorblind policies concern you?

>another thing I think many East Coast politicians struggle
>with is grabbing the South. Even though under the electoral
>college it's red af, it's also Black af as far as Democratic
>voting is concerned. Voters skew older. I think that's more
>the issue.

For sure. Also, Black Southern voters tend to skew far more conservative on the democratic political spectrum, which is a big reason why Biden is polling so well there (and why Clinton polled so well).

Even Obama had a lil trouble here before he swept
>Iowa and some of the early states in 2008.

A lot of people forget that the Clintons still were dominating the South - even against Obama (and employing cheap tactics at that to try and stave off Obama).

by the time he got
>to SC things really shifted. East Coasters and Northeasterners
>are seen as elitist on GP. I think that's why Killer Mike
>jumped on the bandwagon, to try and dispel that.
>
>I'd like to see how he handles these. I always said if Bernie
>takes the Carolinas, he's got these.

I think Bernie is doing exceptionally well with diverse voters. Of all the candidates, he has the lowest percentage of white support (49%) (Pew Research poll from this month). The older voters still don't rock with him. Many have the Soviet Red Scare embedded in their minds and just can't seem to shake the whole "commie" fear mongering.

>I guarantee a younger candidate maybe from the Midwest or CA
>talking the same shit as Bernie with the same base would sweep
>tf outta everyone.
>
>Americans are weird man.

bizarre af, my guy.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
spirit
Charter member
21432 posts
Thu Mar-05-20 11:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
203. "decent post but Obama is considered from Chicago "
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

Labeling Obama “East Coast” seems weird (unless you’re doing so because he went to Harvard?).

Bernie got a quarter of the Black vote in Nevada.

I think your idea that Bernie’s base skews under 45 has been verified by exit polling so far. Black southern voters skewing older in the south matches my anecdotal experience. I think if Bernie is the nominee, everyone will get on board.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 01:44 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
205. "yikes i hope this wasnt said as a positive thing"
In response to Reply # 200


          

>dude's like Corbyn, he's been where he is for years.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 07:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
207. "of course it is."
In response to Reply # 205
Fri Mar-06-20 07:15 AM by Dr Claw

  

          

the US is pulling the same tricks against the left that they did Corbyn.

I severely underestimated how craven and pervasive that smear is and the levels at which it would be deployed.

corporate media would rather talk about "bros" and emojis in bad faith than about their chosen one not being able to remember the name of the President whose sidekick he was.

anyway, enjoy 4 more years of Trump and wondering where the votes for a guy whose whole shtick is "I'm the sidekick of the guy who disappointed a generation of people" went.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Rjcc
Charter member
94957 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 07:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
208. "you gotta give this shit up"
In response to Reply # 207


          

nobody is fuckin worried about you brooooooos

black people in south carolina didn't not vote for bernie because of broooooooooooos

white people in the south didn't not vote for bernie because of brooooooooooooos


the only people who are obsessed with this are people who want to pretend that the reason they're being dismissed is because of a stereotype.


and not because they're just politically useless.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 07:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
209. "^^^ YOU NAH TEEEEE (c)"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Rjcc
Charter member
94957 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 09:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
213. "oh now you want people to be nice instead of honest"
In response to Reply # 209


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 08:20 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
210. "imagine stanning for the man who destroyed the uk labor party"
In response to Reply # 207


          

and thinking the american left is limited to bernie disciples and their 30% ceiling.

the left is still going strong. 2018 showed this. 2020 is still showing this.

the progressivism of personal destruction is the reason the majority of voters on the left reject your message. cant attack every individual and institution that doesnt kiss the ring of saint bernard and expect them to roll out the red carpet for you when its election time.

the 'establishment' yall label everyone as is mostly a collection of good ass people who recognize the compromise/sacrifice required to actually get things done and bring a coalition of shared interests together. workers, voters, politicians, and civil servants who would rather try to improve the 1 half decent political party than burn it down.

70% of black voters in the party that yall hate came out and gave yall roses while yall can still shove em up your ass.

young people aint even inspired to give yall political power.

cant blame corporate media for that.

blame your janky ass movement.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 12:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
204. "☺️☺️"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 10:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
211. "RE: ☺️☺️"
In response to Reply # 204
Fri Mar-06-20 10:44 AM by Vex_id

          

On Super Tuesday - Sanders won:

*Latinx vote
*Asian-American vote
*Arab-American vote
*Native American vote
*LBGTQI vote
*Young Black vote (under 30)

But yea - he has no broad support whatsoever.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5627 posts
Fri Mar-06-20 08:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
212. "Thats alot of won votes for someone who lost"
In response to Reply # 211


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 06:06 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
214. "lol"
In response to Reply # 212


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 06:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
215. "Sure is; +1,000 delegates. But it illustrates how Bernie never had"
In response to Reply # 212


          

"a minority voter problem."

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 06:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
216. "not sure why this is upped but repackage Bernie as a younger version..."
In response to Reply # 215


          

it's hard to get behind an 80y/o Jewish "progressive" that has been in politics for 50 years...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 08:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
217. "Fair - and we do have younger people rising up to carry the baton"
In response to Reply # 216


          

>it's hard to get behind an 80y/o Jewish "progressive" that
>has been in politics for 50 years...

Interesting though - it wasn't all that hard for people to get behind a near 80-year old white guy who rocked with segregationists that's been in politics for 50 years.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 09:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
218. "RE: Fair - and we do have younger people rising up to carry the baton"
In response to Reply # 217


          

>>it's hard to get behind an 80y/o Jewish "progressive" that
>>has been in politics for 50 years...
>
>Interesting though - it wasn't all that hard for people to get
>behind a near 80-year old white guy who rocked with
>segregationists that's been in politics for 50 years.

Biden has name recognition beyond the past 5 years and Obama magic dust sprinkled on him. He could’ve won in 2016 if he had ran.

Bernie LOST.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
6023 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 11:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
219. "uh, nothing you say negated what he said"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

its hard to get behind an 80yo Jewish....
wrong. see Biden

“oh thats because...”
no nigga, you said hard to get behind, and was wrong.

there is no, oh thats because

fuck are you even talking about?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 12:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
220. "RE: uh, nothing you say negated what he said"
In response to Reply # 219


          

www.rif.org

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #12840599 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com