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Subject: "The sweet irony of unions asking for exemptions from $15/hr wages" Previous topic | Next topic
GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon Jun-01-15 10:48 AM

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"The sweet irony of unions asking for exemptions from $15/hr wages"


          

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-los-angeles-minimum-wage-unions-20150526-story.html

L.A. labor leaders seek minimum wage exemption for firms with union workers
Rusty Hicks

Rusty Hicks, head of the Los Angeles County Federation of Labor, says firms with unionized workers should have the "freedom" to set their own pay rates. (Glenn Koenig / Los Angeles Times)

By PETER JAMISON, DAVID ZAHNISER AND EMILY ALPERT REYES contact the reporters

Labor leaders, who were among the strongest supporters of the citywide minimum wage increase approved last week by the Los Angeles City Council, are advocating last-minute changes to the law that could create an exemption for companies with unionized workforces.


The push to include an exception to the mandated wage increase for companies that let their employees collectively bargain was the latest unexpected detour as the city nears approval of its landmark legislation to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020.

For much of the past eight months, labor activists have argued against special considerations for business owners, such as restaurateurs, who said they would have trouble complying with the mandated pay increase.

But Rusty Hicks, who heads the county Federation of Labor and helps lead the Raise the Wage coalition, said Tuesday night that companies with workers represented by unions should have leeway to negotiate a wage below that mandated by the law.

"With a collective bargaining agreement, a business owner and the employees negotiate an agreement that works for them both. The agreement allows each party to prioritize what is important to them," Hicks said in a statement. "This provision gives the parties the option, the freedom, to negotiate that agreement. And that is a good thing."


Coalition representatives said the proposed exemption would ensure the city complies with federal laws which they say give collective bargaining agreements precedence over local ordinances. They also contend that it would keep L.A.'s ordinance consistent with previous city wage laws.

Some business leaders criticized the proposal, however, calling it ironic in light of union leaders' past opposition to special considerations for some employers.

"I'd refer everyone back to the statements of labor leaders over the past seven months that no one deserves a sub-minimum wage," said Ruben Gonzalez, senior vice president for public policy and political affairs with the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce, which opposed the minimum wage increase passed by the City Council.

Gonzalez said the change sought by labor officials could pressure companies into letting employees unionize as a way to seek relief from the mandated wage hike.

"Once again, the soaring rhetoric of helping the working poor is just a cover for city government acting as a tool of organized labor," he said.


The City Council voted last week to gradually increase the hourly minimum wage to $15 over the next five years. Since then, City Atty. Mike Feuer has prepared an ordinance that would put the increases into effect. The council's Economic Development Committee is scheduled to review the language on Friday.

Last fall, the council approved an ordinance increasing the minimum wage at large hotels to $15.37 per hour. That law says that provisions of the hotel wage hike may be waived in workplaces that have collective bargaining agreements.







So basically, we all know $15 is too high, but the 2% of all americans who are even on MW are going to get screwed regardless.

Welp, we need to start asking why companies don't pay more. You can't just raise the wage floor out of poverty.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Soooo unions are asking for their own death warrant?
Jun 01st 2015
1
How hard could it be for them to stick to their own guns? Hilarious
Jun 01st 2015
3
      They know that a $15 MW is not realistic -- merely a political tool.
Jun 01st 2015
5
the irony is too thick!
Jun 01st 2015
2
they did the same shit with the affordable care act iirc
Jun 01st 2015
4
This is why we can't have nice things
Jun 01st 2015
6
The MW debate is so weird. You can't save EVERYONE man
Jun 01st 2015
7
the number will be inflated forever.
Jun 01st 2015
8
You sure about that? How do you know?
Jun 02nd 2015
9
      by 'inflated' i mean it will increase again.
Jun 02nd 2015
11
           the argument is "who will I look down upon"
Jun 02nd 2015
12
                #14
Jun 02nd 2015
16
Yes, you can save everyone. The resources are there
Jun 02nd 2015
10
America doesn't work w/o an exploited class.
Jun 02nd 2015
14
don't we already do this with "creatives"?
Jun 02nd 2015
20
      in a way, yes.
Jun 02nd 2015
22
greed is strong isn't it?
Jun 02nd 2015
15
      Nobody's even saying "make everyone the middle class"
Jun 02nd 2015
21
           agreed
Jun 02nd 2015
25
This guy thinks he understands some things about economics.
Jun 02nd 2015
18
exactly
Jun 02nd 2015
13
The argument looks good to me.
Jun 02nd 2015
17
oh yeah.
Jun 02nd 2015
23
It does make sense though.
Jun 02nd 2015
19
you have a point
Jun 02nd 2015
24
this is true
Jun 02nd 2015
26
yup
Jun 02nd 2015
28
If we had stronger unions, there would be no need for a minimum wage
Jun 02nd 2015
27

Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
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Mon Jun-01-15 11:05 AM

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1. "Soooo unions are asking for their own death warrant?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This creates an incentive for workers to de-unionize...union participation is already at an all-time low. This is so weird. We already know that the government wants to be our bank, our religion, and our humanitarian providers, but it looks like the government is going to take over unions, too.

And yes, the irony is nothing short of hilarious.
______________________________
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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon Jun-01-15 11:13 AM

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3. "How hard could it be for them to stick to their own guns? Hilarious"
In response to Reply # 1


          

I mean, as absurd as $15 NATIONALLY would be, its wild to see that even locally some places can't support it.

  

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Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
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Mon Jun-01-15 11:17 AM

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5. "They know that a $15 MW is not realistic -- merely a political tool."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Despite their appearances, these people in power are usually not complete idiots like this...I'm surprised that it got this far and they didn't fabricate a different way to put the brakes on. They know it will put people out of work and they know there will be other unforeseen side effects, and they know they'll get the blame.

>I mean, as absurd as $15 NATIONALLY would be, its wild to see
>that even locally some places can't support it.


______________________________
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SoWhat
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Mon Jun-01-15 11:07 AM

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2. "the irony is too thick!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

LOL

fuck you.

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
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Mon Jun-01-15 11:14 AM

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4. "they did the same shit with the affordable care act iirc"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Mon Jun-01-15 11:19 AM

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6. "This is why we can't have nice things"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon Jun-01-15 12:07 PM

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7. "The MW debate is so weird. You can't save EVERYONE man"
In response to Reply # 6


          

Raising the MW doesn't change that much if you're still making MW.

We all support increases, but you can't just inflate the number forever

  

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SoWhat
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Mon Jun-01-15 12:09 PM

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8. "the number will be inflated forever."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

fuck you.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue Jun-02-15 02:50 PM

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9. "You sure about that? How do you know?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

I can't see this sort of thing being sustainable.

  

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SoWhat
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11. "by 'inflated' i mean it will increase again."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

as it must.

if it jumps to $10/hr now it'll eventually hit $15/hr and higher.

either we support the idea of a MW or we don't. it sounds like you don't. which is what it is.

but if we're going to have a MW it has to be a living wage - a wage that actual real ppl can afford. if real ppl can't afford to live on the MW then it's meaningless.

and i strongly disagree w/the notion that a 'too high' MW sends a bad message to anyone. but even if it does i disagree that $15/hr is 'too high'. $15/hr sounds about right - ppl can live on that. if businesses can't afford to pay employees that rate then the businesses shouldn't have employees. i'm fine w/that too.

none of the arguments i've heard against the increase are convincing.

fuck you.

  

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John Forte
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Tue Jun-02-15 02:59 PM

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12. "the argument is "who will I look down upon""
In response to Reply # 11
Tue Jun-02-15 03:16 PM by John Forte

          

That's why it's awesome being me. I look down on people for all kinds of arbitrary shit. You can be richer, smarter and more handsome, I'll still find a way to make myself feel superior. I'm totes okay with everyone getting paid because I'm still better. My delusion sustains me.

  

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SoWhat
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16. "#14"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

fuck you.

  

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John Forte
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10. "Yes, you can save everyone. The resources are there"
In response to Reply # 7


          

  

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SoWhat
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14. "America doesn't work w/o an exploited class."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

niggers, basically...w/o regard for race.

if 'everyone' is paid at least $15/hr then all of us move a little close to being a nigger. unless OUR wage increases at a rate to put us on a level where we are further from the nigger rate.

w/o income disparity how do we know where we sit on the food chain? are we gonna institute actual classes?

maybe that's how the MW thing can be sold - $15/hr minimum but we're bringing back feudal class ranks. so a person can earn $18/hr but they're a merchant which puts them above a serf making $15/hr so it's all good. <-- that might be the key.

fuck you.

  

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John Forte
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20. "don't we already do this with "creatives"?"
In response to Reply # 14


          


>maybe that's how the MW thing can be sold - $15/hr minimum but
>we're bringing back feudal class ranks. so a person can earn
>$18/hr but they're a merchant which puts them above a serf
>making $15/hr so it's all good. <-- that might be the key.

  

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SoWhat
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22. "in a way, yes. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

LOL

fuck you.

  

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lfresh
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15. "greed is strong isn't it?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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John Forte
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21. "Nobody's even saying "make everyone the middle class""
In response to Reply # 15


          

but rather, "let's raise the standard of living of our poor" or "lets pay workers enough to get off public assistance".

  

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lfresh
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25. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

not even realizing its coming out of our collective pockets anyway


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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stravinskian
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18. "This guy thinks he understands some things about economics."
In response to Reply # 7


          


Dunning-Kruger.

  

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lfresh
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13. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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stravinskian
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17. "The argument looks good to me. "
In response to Reply # 0


          


The minimum wage is there to protect workers from exploitation. But if the wages are negotiated by the union, then that's the union's job.

But people are anti-labor nowadays. God knows why.

  

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SoWhat
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23. "oh yeah."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

good point.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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19. "It does make sense though. "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jun-02-15 03:31 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

this give unions tremendous leverage. Non-union workers have no leverage, and can't negotiate for anything. A non-union laborer accepting less than minimum wage is never a choice. Unionize workers could decide that it may make sense to go for a wage below $15 in order to get other benefits.

I think y'all being a bit too knee jerk on this one.

Could lead to more unionized workers, which could lead to even more leverage.

it's chess not checkers.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

  

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John Forte
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24. "you have a point"
In response to Reply # 19


          

  

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legsdiamond
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26. "this is true"
In response to Reply # 19


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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AZ
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28. "yup"
In response to Reply # 19


          

the opposition makes it clear what the unions are going for: "Gonzalez said the change sought by labor officials could pressure companies into letting employees unionize as a way to seek relief from the mandated wage hike."

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue Jun-02-15 04:11 PM

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27. "If we had stronger unions, there would be no need for a minimum wage"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jun-02-15 04:13 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

  

          

The reason why minimum wage is currently an issue is that most workers have little to no negotiating power in the wage setting process.

Many Western Euro countries have no legally mandated minimum wage but have something set by collective bargaining

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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