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Subject: "your school system is broke. which budget do you cut and why?" Previous topic | Next topic
BigJazz
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24443 posts
Thu May-28-15 10:59 AM

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"Poll question: your school system is broke. which budget do you cut and why?"


  

          

your school system is broke and the kids are performing poorly on every test and indicator in existence.

you're tasked with doing some budget cuts and you're options are the 3 areas listed. there are no other options. no you can't raise more money. no you can't cut from some other area. no you can't spread cuts among the choices.

which budget do you cut and why?

Poll result (29 votes)
Music & Arts (6 votes)Vote
Sports (19 votes)Vote
Facilities (4 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
cutting vs reallocation
May 28th 2015
1
^^^^^^^^^
May 28th 2015
3
here in cali a new funding formula allocates a higher proportion of $$$
May 29th 2015
79
      LCFF and LCAP
May 29th 2015
84
      this is so awesome. Im glad you do this work!
May 30th 2015
92
           word up and thank you!
May 30th 2015
93
Red.
May 28th 2015
2
sports.
May 28th 2015
4
PE system in America sucks
May 28th 2015
5
i cut SPORTS not p.e.
May 28th 2015
9
I hear what you are saying but here is how it hurts kids
May 28th 2015
27
      naw.
May 28th 2015
41
           i aint cutting a damn thing that hurts the kids
May 28th 2015
46
           LOL
May 28th 2015
54
           Exactly
May 28th 2015
71
RE: PE system in America sucks
May 28th 2015
13
      there's a direct correlation between participation in sports and
May 28th 2015
15
      source
May 28th 2015
35
           RE: source
May 28th 2015
45
                RE:
May 28th 2015
58
      i am guessing you didn't play any sports.
May 28th 2015
16
           let me just take my L and move on.
May 28th 2015
23
Yup.
May 28th 2015
6
      sports keep at-risk kids in school
May 28th 2015
8
           so does music and arts.
May 28th 2015
10
                I wasn't arguing the contrary
May 28th 2015
11
                     word.
May 28th 2015
12
                     Sports can keep kids in schools
May 28th 2015
14
                          yes, you "change the way education works"
May 28th 2015
18
                          I know all to well, I work in the District office of a school district
May 28th 2015
20
                          a 2.5 for some athletes IS working harder...
May 28th 2015
48
The one with the lowest rate of participation
May 28th 2015
7
this america dawg. cant cut sports.
May 28th 2015
17
you can't cut sports...
May 28th 2015
19
Cut out History, since they teachin that bullshit anyway!!!
May 28th 2015
21
ah shit...see...now YOUR shit is coming out!!
May 28th 2015
22
facilities easily
May 28th 2015
24
I voted facilities as well...
May 28th 2015
49
yeah i voted facilites too
May 28th 2015
56
If you don't update a school's facilities...
May 28th 2015
62
nope, nope, nope.
May 28th 2015
70
good posting
May 29th 2015
86
you people must live in awesome neighborhoods.
May 29th 2015
80
I see OKP OKPing
May 28th 2015
25
picked last in PE^^^
May 28th 2015
50
sure buddy.
May 28th 2015
57
      My J is still on bruh...
May 28th 2015
60
      haha nice
May 28th 2015
74
RE: I see OKP OKPing
May 30th 2015
94
Can we get some OKEducators to weigh in on this.
May 28th 2015
26
the thing is...
May 28th 2015
29
^^^
May 28th 2015
30
that's why there's no right answer here.
May 28th 2015
42
      oh i totally agree there is no right answer is this poll
May 28th 2015
44
      Naw you're right I went far with it
May 28th 2015
53
      :)
May 29th 2015
85
      word.
May 28th 2015
55
      true
May 28th 2015
59
peace G! post 76
May 29th 2015
77
also can we take a look at the budget?
May 28th 2015
28
that kills the poll because most struggling school systems would benefit
May 28th 2015
31
      i feel like that's the elephant in the room
May 28th 2015
37
look for waste first
May 28th 2015
32
how money is spent is absolutely an education question
May 28th 2015
33
      not to a de-professionalized view of the professional practice of educat...
May 29th 2015
76
           They're aren't ready for LCAP and LCFF
May 29th 2015
83
                word
May 29th 2015
88
D. None of the Above
May 28th 2015
34
I'm guessing Baltimore City Public Schools are the reason for this poll....
May 28th 2015
36
money mismanagement in Baltimore needs its own post. hell, it needs
May 28th 2015
43
Sports.
May 28th 2015
38
start with the teachers' salaries and retirement funds
May 28th 2015
39
I was SO READY to be mad, lol.
May 28th 2015
63
my mom and sister are public school teachers in Philly. i know
May 28th 2015
68
lol, I only read the subject
May 28th 2015
64
Its not on the list but should be
May 28th 2015
40
damn. i have a your vs you're error in the original post
May 28th 2015
47
CUT ANGLISH!!!
May 28th 2015
51
I'd cut sports even if we had plenty of money.
May 28th 2015
52
THIS is TOKP
May 28th 2015
61
If these are the choices your governments presents you, then resign.
May 28th 2015
65
People would hate you for cutting arts or $ for facilities. You cut spor...
May 28th 2015
67
our big LA union organized with militant leadership threatening a strike
May 29th 2015
81
The only way cutting sports makes sense is...
May 28th 2015
66
legalize it
May 28th 2015
69
never cut arts
May 28th 2015
72
Sports brings in way more revenue than Music and Arts
May 28th 2015
73
nerds, nerds, nerDS, NERDS!!!!
May 29th 2015
82
You have to do cost/benefit and reallocation, not cutting
May 28th 2015
75
IRL, school boards always pick music & arts b/c sports
May 29th 2015
78
RE: IRL, school boards always pick music & arts b/c sports
May 30th 2015
90
man...lets do a medium...
May 29th 2015
87
none of the above. these are fucked up false choices.
May 30th 2015
89
RE: your school system is broke. which budget do you cut and why?
May 30th 2015
91

Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16484 posts
Thu May-28-15 11:12 AM

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1. "cutting vs reallocation"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-28-15 11:14 AM by Selah

          

the mentality behind "lets take some stuff away...that'll fix it" might be the underlier that submarines whatever you do

if you cut and it works - the cutting is validated

if you cut and it doesn't work - that might precipitate more cuts

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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Thu May-28-15 11:13 AM

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3. "^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

------------------------------

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rawsouthpaw
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Fri May-29-15 01:06 AM

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79. "here in cali a new funding formula allocates a higher proportion of $$$"
In response to Reply # 1
Fri May-29-15 01:13 AM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

for needier student populations, like school communities with a higher share of foster youth, english-learners, etc. as a high school teacher in south LA who had one class for a time numbering close to 50, with dozens of newcomers in that same class from mexico/central america who spoke almost zero english, this was a huge systemic victory that is getting underway though higher income communities say they are experiencing disruptive cutting. due to my participation in site allocation decisions i was eventually able to get an outside org funded and into our school to give them extra support immigrant students obviously need as they settle in (http://homiesunidos.org/programs/noble-youth/)
and with more resources on the way i'll definitely continue that.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-news/20130223/gov-jerry-browns-new-robin-hood-school-funding-formula-funnels-more-tax-dollars-to-poorer-districts

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
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Fri May-29-15 09:35 AM

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84. "LCFF and LCAP"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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akon
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Sat May-30-15 01:47 PM

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92. "this is so awesome. Im glad you do this work!"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

>for needier student populations, like school communities with
>a higher share of foster youth, english-learners, etc. as a
>high school teacher in south LA who had one class for a time
>numbering close to 50, with dozens of newcomers in that same
>class from mexico/central america who spoke almost zero
>english, this was a huge systemic victory that is getting
>underway though higher income communities say they are
>experiencing disruptive cutting. due to my participation in
>site allocation decisions i was eventually able to get an
>outside org funded and into our school to give them extra
>support immigrant students obviously need as they settle in
>(http://homiesunidos.org/programs/noble-youth/)
> and with more resources on the way i'll definitely continue
>that.
>
>http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-news/20130223/gov-jerry-browns-new-robin-hood-school-funding-formula-funnels-more-tax-dollars-to-poorer-districts

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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rawsouthpaw
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93. "word up and thank you! "
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

community members that want make an impact at their local schools can do so via the school site council or equivalent body, which is what i rep and pitch ideas on along with parents, etc.

check out this ill clip from homies unidos' org doc film - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKq0wGLoQGo

  

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WarriorPoet415
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Thu May-28-15 11:12 AM

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2. "Red."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Music and Arts programs will be the easiest to reconstitute in the schools when the budget gets better. Plus you can partner with volunteer programs in the community if need be.

But if you let your facilities go, the kids can't come to school and you could be fucked for years. Plus letting needed repairs go would be costlier in the long term.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
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"To Each His Reach"

  

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SoWhat
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Thu May-28-15 11:18 AM

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4. "sports."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

we'll still have physical education classes for the kids to get their much-needed exercise.

fuck you.

  

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esb225
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Thu May-28-15 11:23 AM

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5. "PE system in America sucks "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

and in schools where you have funding issues it's even worse...
that's the last place you start making cuts if you ask me...

I got a good life man

  

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SoWhat
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Thu May-28-15 11:26 AM

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9. "i cut SPORTS not p.e."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

'sports' as in extracurricular sporting activities. track team, football team, basketball team, et al.

fuck you.

  

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esb225
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Thu May-28-15 12:18 PM

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27. "I hear what you are saying but here is how it hurts kids "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

and again not all kids but a decent amount.

you cut sports so u now say billy has to pay to be on the football team.. he/family can't afford it... so he doesn't play... he is no longer active... PE standards are so shitty in American now it's sad...

keep the kids active in schools... give them a chance to work off that energy they are using for those worldstar videos

I got a good life man

  

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SoWhat
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Thu May-28-15 01:27 PM

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41. "naw."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

i can make an equally passionate case for music and arts.

like i can talk about Bobby whose parents can't afford musical instruments but he gets to play the piano at school and his teacher lets him use it after school too and he's a brilliant pianist who also has some interest in writing and the teacher has a friend who's a professional musician and has some pull at Oberlin and can get Bobby an audition which he nails and he gets in and hooks up w/a friend there who plays drums and is a brilliant programmer and....

the point here is one of them has to go. i'd cut sports b/c i'm tired of seeing arts education suffer and having cut arts out of schools has resulted in us being where we are now and i'd want to try something different so i'd not cut the arts and would instead cut sports.

fuck you.

  

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esb225
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Thu May-28-15 01:53 PM

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46. "i aint cutting a damn thing that hurts the kids "
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

we have to find something else bc ur right cutting music and art is not the answer.


I got a good life man

  

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SoWhat
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54. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

fuck you.

  

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nipsey
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Thu May-28-15 06:53 PM

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71. "Exactly"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          


>
>the point here is one of them has to go. i'd cut sports b/c
>i'm tired of seeing arts education suffer and having cut arts
>out of schools has resulted in us being where we are now and
>i'd want to try something different so i'd not cut the arts
>and would instead cut sports.

____________________________________
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JiggysMyDayJob
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13. "RE: PE system in America sucks "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>and in schools where you have funding issues it's even
>worse...
>that's the last place you start making cuts if you ask me...
>
>

Problem is you take the money away from sports and put that towards building better PE Classes and PE standards. Quit pouring it into sports and promising under privilege and impoverished children dreams of being NBA and NFL stars. Focus on their health and education.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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John Forte
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Thu May-28-15 11:31 AM

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15. "there's a direct correlation between participation in sports and "
In response to Reply # 13


          

graduation rates.

  

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astralblak
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Thu May-28-15 12:49 PM

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35. "source"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

???

  

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John Forte
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Thu May-28-15 01:46 PM

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45. "RE: source"
In response to Reply # 35


          

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/01/athletes-are-more-likely-to-finish-high-school-than-non-athletes/283455/

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/high-school-notes/2011/09/02/high-school-sports-participation-increases-for-22nd-straight-year

http://kshsaa.org/Public/PDF/AcademicBenefits.pdf

  

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astralblak
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Thu May-28-15 03:18 PM

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58. "RE: "
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

the first link as very little to any viable NATIONAL data

the second is just about participation, with a small sidebar about GPAs, which does support your claim

and the third is about the state of Kansas

It's interesting. I don't doubt playing sports keeps kids in school more. There's other variables I would look at though

  

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dapitts08
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Thu May-28-15 11:35 AM

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16. "i am guessing you didn't play any sports."
In response to Reply # 13


          


>Quit
>pouring it into sports and promising under privilege and
>impoverished children dreams of being NBA and NFL stars. Focus
>on their health and education.

because access to sports programs is so much more than that
but imma let you cook cause i have work to do

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
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Thu May-28-15 12:06 PM

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23. "let me just take my L and move on. "
In response to Reply # 16
Thu May-28-15 12:07 PM by JiggysMyDayJob

  

          

L

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
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Thu May-28-15 11:25 AM

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6. "Yup."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

If you want to play a sport then you should have to pay for it. Sports are so costly and don't provide any academic advantages. Maintaining a field or Gym should be part of facilities but all the equipment and etc could be provided by sponsors, boosters, Athletic Foundations, and parent pockets (shoes, uniforms).


Sports at my school district is funded by an Athletic Foundation, parents paying for minor equipment and by the district renting out the fields/gyms/pool for events on the weekend.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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John Forte
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8. "sports keep at-risk kids in school"
In response to Reply # 6


          

  

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SoWhat
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10. "so does music and arts."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

fuck you.

  

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John Forte
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Thu May-28-15 11:28 AM

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11. "I wasn't arguing the contrary"
In response to Reply # 10


          

I was countering this "Sports are so costly and don't provide any academic advantages."

  

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SoWhat
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12. "word."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

fuck you.

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
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Thu May-28-15 11:31 AM

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14. "Sports can keep kids in schools "
In response to Reply # 11
Thu May-28-15 11:33 AM by JiggysMyDayJob

  

          

>I was countering this "Sports are so costly and don't provide
>any academic advantages."

but changing the way education works can keep them in school too. I agree that sports teach team building and what not, but If all I need is a 2.5 to keep shooting hoops, that doesn't make me work harder. It makes me work hard enough so I can stay on the court. Let alone folks are still bending the rules and grading on curves because Timmy has a mean ass jumper or can run a 4/4 in 3.

Like SoWhat said music and arts are good alternatives. Ray Ray don't need a concussion by 16.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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John Forte
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Thu May-28-15 11:44 AM

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18. "yes, you "change the way education works""
In response to Reply # 14


          

in a school district that has to choose between sports, arts and facilities. I'll show you how the dropout rate works, and how the district cuts even MORE of your funding because you no longer have the student body to command it.

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
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Thu May-28-15 12:00 PM

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20. "I know all to well, I work in the District office of a school district"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Funding is a whole entire beef within it's self. Yea kids stop going to school you lose ADA which means you lose dollars. My point is that the culture of education needs to change. Students need to be engaged more and treated like people and not numbers Of course there are more factors to it than just that, but to say cutting sports = huge dropout rate sounds wild (if you have the numbers to show, then I'll acquiesce my point) I'm sure a school could cut sports and improve academics with out a major dropout rate.


>in a school district that has to choose between sports, arts
>and facilities. I'll show you how the dropout rate works, and
>how the district cuts even MORE of your funding because you no
>longer have the student body to command it.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu May-28-15 01:59 PM

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48. "a 2.5 for some athletes IS working harder..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

and what is the GPA needed to play the sax or paint pictures?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Thu May-28-15 11:25 AM

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7. "The one with the lowest rate of participation"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Thu May-28-15 11:39 AM

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17. "this america dawg. cant cut sports."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu May-28-15 11:51 AM

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19. "you can't cut sports... "
In response to Reply # 0


          

that would kill the school spirit.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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21. "Cut out History, since they teachin that bullshit anyway!!! "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

(c) TOKPR

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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BigJazz
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22. "ah shit...see...now YOUR shit is coming out!!"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_1dZe-yFjI&feature=youtu.be&t=43s



***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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NikaMandela
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Thu May-28-15 12:10 PM

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24. "facilities easily"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i dont think the quality of education is dependent on how nice or updated the facilities are.

sports, art, and music are critical to the quality of education.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu May-28-15 02:00 PM

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49. "I voted facilities as well..."
In response to Reply # 24


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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bleekgilliam_420
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56. "yeah i voted facilites too"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

but im not sure what cuts in facilities mean.
does that mean the school and grounds are going to cleaned less? does it mean the desk are continued to be shitty?
or does it mean that something that isn't repaired can cause some code violations?
most of this I can live with more than cuts in the other 2.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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62. "If you don't update a school's facilities..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

... it severely inhibits a school's ability to not only continue sports, arts, and music, but modern education in classrooms as well.

Facilities should really be priority #1. It's not a coincidence that many of the worst schools in America are the ones that can't update their labs, their libraries, their computers, their classrooms. Kids more than ever need technology in the classroom to keep them engaged.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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box
Member since Nov 07th 2007
320 posts
Thu May-28-15 05:10 PM

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70. "nope, nope, nope."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

No facilities means that the air conditioners don't work. Try teaching 30 hot 8 year-olds in a 90 degree, humid room. It can't happen.

No facilities means that the water fountains don't work and the toilets won't flush right. It's hard to teach a kid their worth something and that they need to give their best if they see their yesterday's mess still floatin in the toilet.

No facilities mean mold in the corners, running through the ceiling tiles, getting into the pages of the books and setting off kids' asthma and keeping them from coming to school. They can't learn if their not there. And that's without considering the space that gets wasted from rooms you can't use that become a nest for vermin.

Because facilities isn't just sparkling versus crusty science labs or whether your basketball hoop has some net left in it or not. It's whether the lights work. Whether the rooms get swept and mopped. It's graffiti on the walls, broken windows, whether the locks work on the doors so that teachers can secure learning materials for kids.

School isn't just a state of mind, it's a physical space that needs upkeep.


box
___
Just looking out of the window
Watching the asphalt grow
Thinking how it all looks hand-me-down

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
524 posts
Fri May-29-15 12:37 PM

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86. "good posting"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
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Fri May-29-15 01:07 AM

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80. "you people must live in awesome neighborhoods."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Too many schools have understaffed facilities staffs, little resources, and all sorts of animules (roaches, rats, pigeons) running around in the schoolhouse at various times.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Thu May-28-15 12:11 PM

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25. "I see OKP OKPing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck sports, seriously fuck 'em. And I loved that shit in my teen years

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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50. "picked last in PE^^^ "
In response to Reply # 25


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-28-15 03:13 PM

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57. "sure buddy. "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

sure.

If you ever make it to LA hit the inbox and we'll play friendly game of one on one and I'll laugh as you're gased by the time I'm up 7-0

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79616 posts
Thu May-28-15 03:21 PM

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60. "My J is still on bruh... "
In response to Reply # 57


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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rawsouthpaw
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74. "haha nice"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
8751 posts
Sat May-30-15 06:22 PM

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94. "RE: I see OKP OKPing"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

It sounds like most of the posters are using their own life experinces as a guideline to follow. Granted, we are just giving TOKPR, but it's worth noting, again that physical education does help the academic performances of students across the board.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/pecat/index.htm

The study was a small-scale trial but out of the 40 cases the CDC measured, all of the students at least maintained or improved their academic standing.

There is also evidence to support the notion that physical exercise can be an effective aid to treatment in cases of mild depression which many high-school kids suffer from at some point. Mental illness would be a contributing factor to decreased academic performance.

Ideally, it would be best to invest in the arts as well, as there are cases of schools easing tensions thru arts education.

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
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Thu May-28-15 12:15 PM

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26. "Can we get some OKEducators to weigh in on this. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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dapitts08
Member since Apr 03rd 2008
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Thu May-28-15 12:32 PM

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29. "the thing is..."
In response to Reply # 26


          

music, sports and arts teach students important life skills that most who participated in either would say are just as important to making them who they are today as the academic/book work.

i was a scholar athlete (three sports) from 5th-12th grade
the leadership, discipline and teamwork i learned through those years carries over to all parts of my life even today

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Thu May-28-15 12:33 PM

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30. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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Thu May-28-15 01:28 PM

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42. "that's why there's no right answer here."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

all are equally important. which ever one cuts will result in some kids losing out. it's a sad situation any way it's sliced.

fuck you.

  

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dapitts08
Member since Apr 03rd 2008
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Thu May-28-15 01:37 PM

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44. "oh i totally agree there is no right answer is this poll"
In response to Reply # 42


          

my responses were more directed towards jiggy's reasoning for cutting sports

like i can totally rock with your premise that we always cut arts/music first and let's see what the difference would be if we cut sports this time...considering the options

but jiggy is just sh*ttin on athletics as if it has no benefits to the kids at all and that the only barometer of whether athletics is worthwhile is whether kids make it to professional sports

i can't rock with that at all

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
5180 posts
Thu May-28-15 02:15 PM

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53. "Naw you're right I went far with it"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

I'm actually more in line with what SoWhat has to say. I just went dumb with my answer. I just feel there's too much emphasis on sports in a lot of schools when there should be more on academics.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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dapitts08
Member since Apr 03rd 2008
8204 posts
Fri May-29-15 09:35 AM

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85. ":)"
In response to Reply # 53


          

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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Thu May-28-15 02:17 PM

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55. "word."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

fuck you.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-28-15 03:19 PM

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59. "true"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

.

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Fri May-29-15 12:54 AM

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77. "peace G! post 76"
In response to Reply # 26
Fri May-29-15 12:55 AM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

thanks for the work you do for the youts!

  

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esb225
Member since Nov 12th 2003
41415 posts
Thu May-28-15 12:27 PM

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28. "also can we take a look at the budget? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like is the superintendent making 200k in a school system that has a 400k budget?

outside of the school where can we make cuts...

I got a good life man

  

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BigJazz
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Thu May-28-15 12:34 PM

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31. "that kills the poll because most struggling school systems would benefit"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

greatly from slashing the admin budget. i'd start cuts there before i touched anything in the poll

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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esb225
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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Thu May-28-15 12:49 PM

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37. "i feel like that's the elephant in the room "
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

you have people who have little to no vested interest in the success of the school making financial decisions that affect a already struggling group of kids.

I got a good life man

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu May-28-15 12:43 PM

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32. "look for waste first"
In response to Reply # 0


          

look and see exactly how the money is spent and see where there may be waste, which can be moved to other budget areas

once that's done, see what might need to be cut and where.

this isn't an educational question; it's a fiscal/budgeting question..one that can be applied to any system/organization.

d

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-28-15 12:47 PM

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33. "how money is spent is absolutely an education question"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

.

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Fri May-29-15 12:32 AM

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76. "not to a de-professionalized view of the professional practice of educat..."
In response to Reply # 33
Fri May-29-15 12:56 AM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

i'll help out as a vet south LA art teacher that's set up a recognized program while taking research seriously as an education practitioner who comes up against bean-counting or more likely shortchanging for low-income student communities at a systemic level all the time. i have a D1 football recruit who's generally on it because he knows what's riding on the work too. the problem is the inequity in funding due to how property taxes fund local schools and the INTENDED public-private divide that exists in a economically stratified society (undone in finland's excellent and egalitarian school system, for example).

gov. jerry brown admin's hostility to standardized testing (which leading private schools don't do along with common core because they know it's bullshit only for the powerless masses not supported by professional practices or research) and implementation to push a larger proportion of state funds to more needy/poorer districts and schools (ie with more foster kids, english learners, etc) is a nationally-leading step in the right direction.

a renowned study from UCLA highlights what upper class school communities of course appreciate.

http://www.artsedsearch.org/summaries/doing-well-and-doing-good-by-doing-art-the-effects-of-education-in-the-visual-and-performing-arts-on-the-achievements-and-values-of-young-adults

Abstract:

This study is based on the researcher’s prior work analyzing data from the National Educational Longitudinal Survey (NELS:88), a data set of information on approximately 25,000 secondary school students over four years, in which he found significant connections between involvement in arts learning and general academic success. In 2009, the researcher analyzed ten additional years of NELS data related to the same students, then age 26. The results strongly connect arts learning with both general academic success and pro-social outcomes (i.e., outcomes such as volunteerism, involvement in the community, or civic participation). Moreover, the study finds that students of low socio-economic status benefited significantly from attending schools characterized as “arts-rich” (i.e., possessing a rich and complete arts curriculum) as opposed to those who had attended schools characterized as “arts-poor.” Benefits were tracked in terms of college attendance, academic achievement in terms of grades, and level of terminal degree.
Key Findings:

Extensive and deep involvement in arts activities was a significant predictor of students’ later academic achievement and community involvement. The relationship between arts-rich educational opportunities and subsequent achievement persisted, even when controlling for socio-economic status (SES). In fact, the relationship strengthened for lower-SES students.
Low SES students benefited significantly from attending schools characterized as arts-rich (i.e., possessing a rich and complete arts curriculum) compared to peers attending arts-poor schools with regard to college attendance, grades, employment, and level of terminal degree. Findings also provide evidence of strong advantages in volunteerism and political participation.
English language learners (ELL) who attended arts-rich high schools were significantly more likely to pursue a bachelor’s degree at age 20 and expect either a bachelor’s or masters degree or higher.

Significance of the Findings:
This study provides important empirical evidence of the significant role that the arts play in preparing young people for success, both in school and in life. The implications for the education of underserved low SES and ELL students are particularly significant.

The researcher’s decision to focus on academic success and pro-social outcomes as dependent variables is important in signaling that preparation for a future workforce is not the only valuable aim of education; preparation for civic life is also an important measure of the efficacy of public education.

Finally, this study provides much-needed longitudinal data on the impact of arts education over time.

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
5180 posts
Fri May-29-15 09:34 AM

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83. "They're aren't ready for LCAP and LCFF "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

That's what I work on all day. Basically programs and bodies in classrooms are part of the funding structure. They're just now telling districts you need to have proper programs set in place for students (especially EL since that lawsuit dropped).

I think the California is unique in the way that the funding structure works and with the changes they're implementing now it's causing massive shake ups, you'll start seeing districts lose or gain funding due to the reporting numbers and program placements.


sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Fri May-29-15 06:41 PM

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88. "word"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
14866 posts
Thu May-28-15 12:48 PM

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34. "D. None of the Above"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-28-15 12:49 PM by Big Kuntry

  

          

I like what Detroit is hoping to do & that's creating a nonprofit organization that has enough funding and authority to be the citywide coordinating body for all public school buildings, special services for families, transportation, enrollment, and parent information systems. By doing this, there isn't a need for any cuts.

I'm also a fan of bringing the community & community groups into schools. The cities that allow this ALWAYS thrive

  

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Overqualified
Member since May 03rd 2006
4543 posts
Thu May-28-15 12:49 PM

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36. "I'm guessing Baltimore City Public Schools are the reason for this poll...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

54 million dollars missing back in 2008. No audit, disclosure or accountability was given to the citizens and to this day, it's still a mystery. And now, a 60 million dollar deficit in the school budget...

When it comes to Baltimore City, people find money for what they want to find money for...indy races, casinos, hotels and so on. I'm guessing most of the funds (including a slice of $1.B in stimulus money allotted to MD) were vaporized in bloated admin salaries and shady contracts, but people pulling the strings are good at insulating themselves in Charm City. Nothing new to see here.

Streets won't let me chill.

  

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BigJazz
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Thu May-28-15 01:35 PM

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43. "money mismanagement in Baltimore needs its own post. hell, it needs"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

its own forum...

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Thu May-28-15 12:57 PM

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38. "Sports."
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's the only option where you can still achieve some of it's objectives while cutting funds. For example, you could dissolve the football team that costs a fortune in equipment and facilities (and I'm assuming insurance as well) but still have long-distance running/soccer/other cheaper sports. It's easier to pear down gym classes to activities that are close to being free than music.

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
23190 posts
Thu May-28-15 01:06 PM

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39. "start with the teachers' salaries and retirement funds "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

they get two months off a year! (c) idiots

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Thu May-28-15 03:29 PM

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63. "I was SO READY to be mad, lol."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
23190 posts
Thu May-28-15 03:42 PM

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68. "my mom and sister are public school teachers in Philly. i know "
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

exactly what it takes to get teachers riled up, lol

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placee_22
Member since Sep 30th 2002
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Thu May-28-15 03:30 PM

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64. "lol, I only read the subject"
In response to Reply # 39
Thu May-28-15 03:32 PM by placee_22

          

but still that would end in --> http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/171261/file-18456630-jpeg/images/chicago-teachers-go-on-strike.jpeg

  

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DaHeathenOne76
Member since May 11th 2003
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Thu May-28-15 01:09 PM

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40. "Its not on the list but should be"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Administration costs.

One school does not need 3 vice principals and instructional coach, a curricula builder and various department heads.




*****************************************
. . . If I have something to say when there is a reason involved, I am perfectly willing to talk. Katherine Hepburn

  

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BigJazz
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Thu May-28-15 01:56 PM

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47. "damn. i have a your vs you're error in the original post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i hate grammatical typos.


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79616 posts
Thu May-28-15 02:03 PM

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51. "CUT ANGLISH!!!"
In response to Reply # 47


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu May-28-15 02:06 PM

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52. "I'd cut sports even if we had plenty of money."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu May-28-15 03:22 PM

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61. "THIS is TOKP"
In response to Reply # 52


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-28-15 03:33 PM

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65. "If these are the choices your governments presents you, then resign."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because you'll be let go soon anyway, because whatever decision you make, the quality of the school would nosedive so incredibly rapidly that you won't have time to figure out where your job went.

All three are absolutely vital to any school.

The sad thing is that people out there think in *exactly* this way. What do we cut? When, in reality, we need to be cutting a fuckton of other government budget stuff and funneling SO much more money into education.

So yeah, my choice would be to resign. There's no point in keeping that job. You won't have it long, and you'll be hated by countless kids everywhere. It's an impossible and worthless task to choose one.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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placee_22
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67. "People would hate you for cutting arts or $ for facilities. You cut spor..."
In response to Reply # 65


          

you might not make it home that night. Especially in the south. They'd be out w/ pitchforks and torches.

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Fri May-29-15 01:19 AM

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81. "our big LA union organized with militant leadership threatening a strike"
In response to Reply # 65
Fri May-29-15 01:20 AM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

and over nearly a year and in conjunction with the other sectors have asserted some control over the downward spiral in our state's public education. bad moments like the scenario described set the stage for movement work, which more than likely has long been underway, in unionized districts anyway. teacher unions in this country basically need to continue to organize hard with all stakeholders like chicago, LA and seattle. hard to do it alone and when not backed, however.

  

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placee_22
Member since Sep 30th 2002
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Thu May-28-15 03:38 PM

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66. "The only way cutting sports makes sense is..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

if you had strong corporate partners that could cover the equipment and facility costs. Otherwise, there aint no way in hell a School District could cut sports, not an entire district.

Maybe enrollment policies could be loosened and then sports could just live at one or two schools and be cut from the rest, but that opens up a whole other can of worms and invites more wolves to the door.

  

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The3rdOne
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Thu May-28-15 04:25 PM

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69. "legalize it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
10119 posts
Thu May-28-15 07:08 PM

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72. "never cut arts"
In response to Reply # 0


          

NEVER

  

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Starks dunked on Bulls
Member since Dec 07th 2011
12028 posts
Thu May-28-15 07:43 PM

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73. "Sports brings in way more revenue than Music and Arts"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Why are we voting Sports?

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri May-29-15 09:00 AM

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82. "nerds, nerds, nerDS, NERDS!!!!"
In response to Reply # 73


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu May-28-15 08:41 PM

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75. "You have to do cost/benefit and reallocation, not cutting"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Those are all valuable things that cannot afford to be eliminated or cut drastically. I don't think there is a panacea for budget woes.

LOL @ all the professor Frinks saying cut sports winning this poll. Sports are important, if not for sports I don't think I would have come to school half as much and there were kids I played with that wouldn't come at all. The fitness and teamwork aspects are cliche but true, especially as physical education gets lamer and lamer. Further, from a budget standpoint, they are often the only thing (and always one of a select few things) that actually generates money extraneously, both to pay for themselves and as revenue to the school.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
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Fri May-29-15 01:01 AM

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78. "IRL, school boards always pick music &amp; arts b/c sports"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-29-15 01:08 AM by b.Touch

  

          

brings in too much revenue.

I'd stand to argue cuts could be made in sports to make it more cost-efficient (i.e. dropping minor sports like golf and track-n-field, or making them pay-required) before anything else gets cut (and leaving the trinity of basketball, baseball and football a-lone). I probably would not be successful.

I voted for sports, but in reality if I was forced to pick music & arts instead, I would. Unfortunately.

One thing is clear - you can't pick facilities. Facilities at most public schools are already in a tenuous state.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sat May-30-15 12:14 PM

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90. "RE: IRL, school boards always pick music &amp; arts b/c sports"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

true, although in rare instances music and arts can bring in money also. overall music is pretty expensive to keep going in any meaningful way though.

i think if you were looking at sports you would probably cut major ones over minor ones. it doesnt really cost anything to have a badminton team, a football team is very expensive because of equipment, insurance and facilities, but of course some of them are actually profitable i would imagine.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ChampD1012
Member since Sep 27th 2003
8355 posts
Fri May-29-15 02:50 PM

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87. "man...lets do a medium..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Let's cut all sports but basketball and football...and keep the band and have no orchestra...

It really makes me appreciate what I had in public school in the 90s...

My HS in South Carolina had all the sports with the exception of a few (no lacrosse for sure). And we had three choirs, a band, and an orchestra.

Even my middle school had band and orchestra and a most sports including a wrestling team...LOL

And my neighborhood wasn't exactly the most affluent either...

  

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poetx
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Sat May-30-15 12:07 PM

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89. "none of the above. these are fucked up false choices. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

typically the problem is systemic and can in no way be solved by snip snip here, snip snip there.

issues have to do with tax base, real estate regulation, county and state management competency.

and its all bait and switch. quiet as kept, these things are no longer in education budgets anyway and the costs are borne by the students and their parents (PTAs, etc). which is fucked up, because it is a tax, and provides a barrier of entry for students with talent but no $$$s.

in the wealthiest school district in the state (of NC), going back 15 yrs, there were no field trips or in-school programs in school budgets -- that was entirely through your PTA. well, if your school is in a relatively lower income area, the parents damn sure don't have extra money for that, so your kids don't get to see the occasional play or have any kinds of enriching assemblies.

to play sports there's a participation fee. again, at a fairly affluent public high school, my daughter played volleyball one year, did track one year, and did band all the way throughout, inlcuding color guard. we had to pay a couple hunnid for volleyball (uniforms and such). direct cost. had to pay like $350 for color guard for just the fall semester, plus a few hundred more for spring. buck fitty for her gown for the wind ensemble concert.

my younger five homeschooled and we have to pay there to support whatever league (football or bball -- we've also done soccer before, and band, and they also have volleyball and a number of other clubs). paying the same kind of money.

way back in the flinstones era when i was in school, all that shit was baked into the school budget. you already paying a la carte.

one h.s. where my son's aau team used to practice looked like a little league field w/ all the sponsors signs hanging up. but that's cool. good hustle if your community can afford it to defray costs. i can only imagine at a really poor inner city school. there'd be signs from liquor stores and four competing funeral homes an shit.

all of these opportunities are needed and vital options for kids' social and physical and mental development. folks is playing us, tho, pitting the artsy fartsies against the jocks. i was both. plus a creative + science nerd to boot. ALL of those areas of study reach different kids and provide experiences and incentives that can help push or pull them through school.

and sports ain't about necessarily nba or nfl. some crazy percentage of female CEOs and execs played team sports. and although it can get ridiculous, you deal with situations in sports that, otherwise, you might not encounter until you are 35 working on a job. i get to work through those things w/ my kids now and help them to recognize patterns in human behavior, and different personality archetypes, and how to deal with different situations AND be self-conscious and push themselves beyond their perceived limits. and have fun and burn off some energy.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Sat May-30-15 01:33 PM

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91. "RE: your school system is broke. which budget do you cut and why?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat May-30-15 01:36 PM by Mr. ManC

  

          

The test taking apparatus.

Get rid of the standardized tests, and all of the money that goes along with it; the inflated textbooks.

Use technology and get a curriculum that can be digitized and efficiently distributed. I'm sure there are cheaper options and a reinvestment of budget allocations that render more bang for your buck.

People are too quick to jump at the arts and sports. There are more intelligencies than just the core coursework.

________________________________________________
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