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Subject: "QOD: Do you believe in Good and Evil? (Especially for Atheist)" Previous topic | Next topic
Case_One
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Wed May-20-15 02:53 PM

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"QOD: Do you believe in Good and Evil? (Especially for Atheist)"


          

Many people believe in good and evil because most believe in a high power of being. But for those who don't believe in a higher power of being, what would be the point of good and evil, since the symbolism of both are based on some kind of deity? And that deity provided the foundation of morality that divides good and evil.

So what do you think?






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"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
*sets up cooler and lawn chair*
May 20th 2015
1
does the belief in Good & Evil have 2 be connected to belief in a diety?
May 20th 2015
2
nope.
May 20th 2015
3
People are clearly capable of both, so yes.
May 20th 2015
4
correct.
May 20th 2015
6
Where does the concept of Good and Evil come from?
May 20th 2015
8
      it is. and has nothing to do with deity
May 20th 2015
14
      It certainly does come from human beings.
May 20th 2015
20
nevermind.
May 20th 2015
5
I was going to answer. You can inbox if needed.
May 20th 2015
15
lol, of course I do.
May 20th 2015
7
Yup, cowardice of thought is evil.
May 20th 2015
9
this is a false premise
May 20th 2015
10
It's a question, not a debate.
May 20th 2015
12
      wtf is your response/answer apropos to?
May 20th 2015
13
      You ought to be more considerate
May 20th 2015
23
      I'm still praying for you. Real talk, even prayed today.
May 20th 2015
25
      Thank-you for illustrating my point to akon
May 20th 2015
27
           LOOK Y'ALL HERE'S TGS WANTING MY ATTENTION.
May 20th 2015
30
                Actually, I was talking to akon
May 20th 2015
31
                you silly little animal
May 20th 2015
33
      ya. sometimes even i fail and resort to appealing to reason
May 20th 2015
34
           I imagine it's different with Catholics, so you're perhaps not as famili...
May 20th 2015
38
      Again, this a question and opinion post
May 20th 2015
24
           and i just gave you my answer and opinion
May 20th 2015
32
      then why make a post?
May 20th 2015
37
           of course he can be.
May 21st 2015
41
It seems like it would be easier for an atheist to tell the difference
May 20th 2015
11
I guess that is the fear of believers
May 20th 2015
16
Its why ppl send their kids to church instead of...RAISING them
May 20th 2015
29
imo opinion there is no such thing as good and evil
May 20th 2015
17
what?
May 20th 2015
18
^^^this should have just been my original answer
May 20th 2015
35
I go from posting, to lurking, to leaving and back...
May 20th 2015
19
The QOD post are random you should check them out.
May 20th 2015
21
Objectively? No. Why the hell would that make sense?
May 20th 2015
22
Actually it's a legit ongoing question for many people.
May 20th 2015
26
      Until you drop the religion, you're lost IMO, so why bother?
May 20th 2015
28
good and evil aren't polarities
May 20th 2015
36
Good and Bad, certainly.
May 21st 2015
39
The basis of morality is rooted in rudimentary social interactions
May 21st 2015
40
No disrespect, at all, but this seems like an impossible debate or
May 21st 2015
42
The plural of atheist is atheists.
May 21st 2015
43
i'm not entirely sure what the question is
May 21st 2015
44

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed May-20-15 02:55 PM

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1. "*sets up cooler and lawn chair*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This should be good.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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BigJazz
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Wed May-20-15 03:06 PM

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2. "does the belief in Good & Evil have 2 be connected to belief in a diety?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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SoWhat
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Wed May-20-15 03:09 PM

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3. "nope."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck you.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Wed May-20-15 03:11 PM

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4. "People are clearly capable of both, so yes."
In response to Reply # 0


          

You don't need a deity to have a moral ground.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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tariqhu
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Wed May-20-15 03:13 PM

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6. "correct."
In response to Reply # 4


          

I don't need a god to determine stealing is wrong.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-20-15 03:26 PM

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8. "Where does the concept of Good and Evil come from?"
In response to Reply # 4


          

>You don't need a deity to have a moral ground.

Do you believe that Morality is a human nature concept?


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"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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akon
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Wed May-20-15 05:22 PM

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14. "it is. and has nothing to do with deity"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


>Do you believe that Morality is a human nature concept?

its a concept that exists throughout the animal kingdom
its why they all attack the 'other' moreso than themselves
its also why cannibalism e.g is quite rare
self-destruction is not a trait that ensures survival of any species.

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http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Wed May-20-15 06:57 PM

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20. "It certainly does come from human beings."
In response to Reply # 8


          

All "human" experiences come from human beings, however, many of them were modeled after nature. The indigenous man discovered morality in a very simple and practical way.

When he over fished the river, people down the river did not have enough to eat, and thus the concept of "take only what you need/share" came into being.

The people up the river did not need a deity to tell them to share, the people down the river came to speak with them, and voila.



~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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Somnus
Member since Jun 25th 2012
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Wed May-20-15 03:12 PM

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5. "nevermind."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-20-15 03:23 PM by Somnus

  

          

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________________________________________________

The ULTIMATE negation of everything.

The space between despair and orgasm is hard to fill ~ Maron

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-20-15 05:47 PM

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15. "I was going to answer. You can inbox if needed."
In response to Reply # 5


          


.
.
.
"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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Wed May-20-15 03:18 PM

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7. "lol, of course I do."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and as God is an invention of man, I don't believe God set morality. WE set morality, because WE invented God.

I know that's not how you see it, but you asked the opinion of an Atheist, so there you have it...

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Wed May-20-15 03:27 PM

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9. "Yup, cowardice of thought is evil."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You know, when facts are presented, but instead of using the intellect that 'god' gave you, you rely on myths & old tales of faith. I mean really, in 2015, post internet, people believe in caveman logic.


pretty lazy & cowardly, which is evil in my book


even jesus stood up to scrutiny, too bad his followers don't. They just quote what a bunch of old white men copied.



Good? Those who live & confront reality in the present without the need of a deity to tell them right from wrong i.e. adults.


Luckily society is starting to finally grow up a little, with so many leaving ALL the faiths in droves

  

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akon
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Wed May-20-15 04:55 PM

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10. "this is a false premise"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Many people believe in good and evil because most believe in
>a high power of being.


the reason for the existence of a deity has nothing to do with our moral code
but everything to do with trying to explain of whence we came and of where we are going
that is why almost all creation myths try to explain the reason of our existence and not
the reason why we do what we do - and this also explains why our sense of morality is relative
in a lot of situations what we do within our community is very different from what we do to those not in our communities
it might be ok to steal murder and plunder the other, where it would not at all be acceptable within those we call our kin.
this is why i believe the our sense of morality is an evolutionary trait
we (luckily) figured out early on that our continued existence depends on our obligations toward each other
and this has ensured the survival of ours species as we know it
it also explains why very many different cultures have very many different versions of where we go when we die
and how we segregate those we want to be with us in the after life from those we'd hate to share our afterlife with
xtianity does this very well
but its all a primitive way of explaining the things we grapple with that we do not know
but as we continue to push the boundaries and limitations of our knowledge,
we come to realize that we do not need to depend on these very early and nonsensical thoughts/beliefs
we can do better
and thank god for science because it allows us to do that.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-20-15 05:13 PM

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12. "It's a question, not a debate. "
In response to Reply # 10


          



.
.
.
"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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akon
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Wed May-20-15 05:16 PM

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13. "wtf is your response/answer apropos to?"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

im pretty sure im answering the qn.
which is wrong in its premise
you call that a debate?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Wed May-20-15 09:10 PM

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23. "You ought to be more considerate"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

The OP is designed to work only for a narrow frame of responses to which Case_One has something prepared. If you deviate from that he has to respond with something to deflect what you said without actually making an attempt to comprehend what you're saying and respond accordingly.

This is important. It's why TDW was so often a cut and paste from other authors and why these questions are retreads of posts or themes he and others have done again and again here.

It's also why he'll frequently dissolve into platitudes like I love you, or I'm praying for you, or have a great day, or something likewise empty and completely irrelevant to what you're saying.

Consider that, next time, before responding. Try to give the answer he needs you to give.

Just IMO though.

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-20-15 09:28 PM

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25. "I'm still praying for you. Real talk, even prayed today."
In response to Reply # 23


          


.
.
.
"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Wed May-20-15 09:36 PM

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27. "Thank-you for illustrating my point to akon"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Your compliance is appreciated.

Just IMO though.

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-20-15 09:50 PM

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30. "LOOK Y'ALL HERE'S TGS WANTING MY ATTENTION. "
In response to Reply # 27
Wed May-20-15 09:50 PM by Case_One

          

But you should be seeking God's attention so that he can heal you and help you to overcome your personal anger issues.
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"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Wed May-20-15 09:52 PM

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31. "Actually, I was talking to akon"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>But you should be seeking God's attention so that he can heal
>you and help you to overcome your personal anger issues.

You wanted in, I indulged you. Thanks for again underlining my point, your compliance is appreciated.

Just IMO though.

  

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akon
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Wed May-20-15 10:08 PM

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33. "you silly little animal"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>But you should be seeking God's attention so that he can heal
>you and help you to overcome your personal anger issues.

i actually think TDS did very well to explain the main objective of your post
some of us chose to respond to the question and not the questioner
despite probably knowing that this would devolve to some immature and judgemental back and forth
like you've just displayed here and that TDS has then just pointed out
its unfortunate that you cant even recognize how well you play this role
such that one can predict exactly how you would react.




.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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akon
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Wed May-20-15 10:12 PM

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34. "ya. sometimes even i fail and resort to appealing to reason"
In response to Reply # 23
Wed May-20-15 10:13 PM by akon

  

          

>The OP is designed to work only for a narrow frame of
>responses

even when i know that is not what is called for

im just failing to understand why anyone would ask for
an atheist point of view
and when they get it they say the OP is not a debate?
what does that even mean?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
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Wed May-20-15 11:03 PM

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38. "I imagine it's different with Catholics, so you're perhaps not as famili..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          


>even when i know that is not what is called for
>
>im just failing to understand why anyone would ask for
>an atheist point of view
>and when they get it they say the OP is not a debate?
>what does that even mean?

But if you've spent a lot of time around people preaching on street corners, there's a certain type that likes to lay issues out, thinking they'll trap you. Some of them even work to scripts (that's why those send offs like I love you and God loves you are so pat and common).

If you talk to these people in person you can sometimes catch them out by asking them if they can repeat to you what you've just said, or even if they can show they understand your side of the 'conversation.' They don't know, because the question that implies they want your point of view isn't genuine. That's not to say they're not genuine in their intentions, they're just caught up in a system that has restricted their freedom of thought and want company in the shackles.

Doesn't work like that on a message board, but you'll see the behaviour where it's clear the person is barely reading what you wrote, if at all, because they're too busy thinking about their next reply.

Debates, questions, these are the bait to lure you in for the switcheroo.

I still think good on you for genuinely replying. Someone else might get something out of it. jrocc went through something similar the other day

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12807590&mesg_id=12807590&listing_type=search#12808623

He clearly got frustrated but his side of the discussion was illuminating for me.

Just IMO though.

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-20-15 09:27 PM

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24. "Again, this a question and opinion post"
In response to Reply # 13


          

So, I'm not sure what your issue is or what you're looking for, but you can have a hand full of chill and relax.
.
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"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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akon
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Wed May-20-15 09:59 PM

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32. "and i just gave you my answer and opinion"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>So, I'm not sure what your issue is or what you're looking
>for, but you can have a hand full of chill and relax.

so again, wtf is this chill and relax apropos to?
i gave a very comprehensive response which illustrates my belief (as an atheist, or to be more accurate, apatheiest)
which is your very question
and i completely do not understand your response to my response

so again, i ask, what exactly are you saying?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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GirlChild
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Wed May-20-15 10:40 PM

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37. "then why make a post?"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

lol
what were you expecting, simplified yes and no answers? you can't be that obtuse.

  

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shockzilla
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Thu May-21-15 04:53 AM

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41. "of course he can be."
In response to Reply # 37


          

that's his whole MO.

  

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sweet ruffian
Member since Jul 11th 2003
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11. "It seems like it would be easier for an atheist to tell the difference"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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Deacon Blues
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Wed May-20-15 06:01 PM

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16. "I guess that is the fear of believers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



If there is no heaven or hell, Believers fear we will devolve into an individualistic kill or be killed world (at least more so than it is today) without a final reward or reckoning, because the only good would be what's good to you.

But is good / evil, determined by God, man or is it is what it is






dude

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Wed May-20-15 09:38 PM

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29. "Its why ppl send their kids to church instead of...RAISING them"
In response to Reply # 16


          

its much easier to just let the religion do the hard part of teaching them how morality and difficult concepts of social interaction work

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Wed May-20-15 06:06 PM

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17. "imo opinion there is no such thing as good and evil"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-20-15 06:08 PM by Mr. ManC

  

          

If a God exists.

God cannot be omnipresent and everywhere, EXCEPT for these parts and places and people where it does not.

Since I do believe in a higher power, I instead say that there is not "good" and "evil" but rather perception. The battle field of good and evil isn't a war of us vs them, bit rather a battle within in doing what is righteous.

Even in Genesis, God didn't ask "who told you you were evil?" God asked "who told you you were naked?" That shift in perception of that which was always good is what brought doubt to truth, and leveraged all of the evils we perceive now, imho.


________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Rjcc
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Wed May-20-15 06:07 PM

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18. "what?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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akon
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Wed May-20-15 10:18 PM

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35. "^^^this should have just been my original answer"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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realityrap
Member since Sep 21st 2005
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Wed May-20-15 06:23 PM

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19. "I go from posting, to lurking, to leaving and back..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And you still doing these post.

We get it nigga you been touched by the big fella

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-20-15 07:06 PM

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21. "The QOD post are random you should check them out."
In response to Reply # 19


          



.
.
.
"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Wed May-20-15 08:06 PM

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22. "Objectively? No. Why the hell would that make sense?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

OP, you sound...insecure.

  

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Case_One
Charter member
54687 posts
Wed May-20-15 09:29 PM

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26. "Actually it's a legit ongoing question for many people. "
In response to Reply # 22


          

If you don't care for the question you can leave and I'm still going to love you for that fact.


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"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him, he can be your's too."

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Wed May-20-15 09:37 PM

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28. "Until you drop the religion, you're lost IMO, so why bother? "
In response to Reply # 26


          

You know damn well asking difficult questions is something you want to do so you keep asking atheists why they aren't convinced by the thing that pays your bills just to make sure you didn't fuck up and invest in the wrong thing.

I won't hold your hand through this.

We know why you're questioning though... just be happy your congregation doesn't know this is your username...

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed May-20-15 10:22 PM

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36. "good and evil aren't polarities"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there's good and bad

then there is divine and evil

i don't believe any of them objectively exist though. good and bad have practical subjectiviity based on individual mores whether arrived at through personal experience or passed down culturally through things like religion, customs and governance.

divine and evil are figuratively subjective used to separate oneself from the pattern one experiences practically subjective as good and bad.

but they are all functional concepts for things which do not actually exist.

i'm sure a gut reaction to that is to come up with some horrific example (usually involving a child) and saying something like how can you not consider that bd/evil. and more than likely if horrific enough i'd have to concede that it does indeed sound pretty bad, but that's because i like most cannot escape from the subjective judgement of it.

and don't get me wrong subjective judgement plays an important role in social organization, as there are mores which have to be established to ensure civility. but none of these things make anything objectively good or bad. ithat's why we don't say that goverments tell us what is good and bad, they just tell uts what's legal and illegal (based on a collective subjective evaluation).

where things get tricky is in the figurative use with divine and evil as it purports its objectivity upon the dogmatic. it's kinda like the statistics you used to open this thread. They are infallible and accusatory in even the presenting of an open discussion. Many and most people, automatically making someone like myself with a different opinion, less and least. How can I possibly deny that?

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
3306 posts
Thu May-21-15 03:10 AM

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39. "Good and Bad, certainly."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think "Evil" is a trickier one. Very loaded word.

They come from within. It's been shown in puppet experiments that children have the capability to think morally before they even have language, so they haven't been taught it by religion and/or children's stories yet, but they instinctively gravitate towards sharers and away from thieves.

Morality is a fluid concept based on a VERY complex interaction between nature and experience though and will be experienced subtly and not-so-subtly differently by everyone... almost all of it can be "unlearnt" and replaced to an extent by teaching, dogma and experience... most religions, to me, are an attempt to attach an aggregation of individual morality to an attractive narrative in order to maintain a large, stable society (much like the Law, Constitution etc do today).

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66339 posts
Thu May-21-15 04:46 AM

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40. "The basis of morality is rooted in rudimentary social interactions"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-21-15 04:47 AM by Lardlad95

  

          

Things that benefit the group form the basis of "good", things that don't benefit the group form the basis for "evil", and because actual survival was involved with early hominid societies sometimes selfish actions could actually lead to the long term survival of the group so it isn't necessarily a case where "altruism" is the be all end all for what it considered to be good. For instance, "bravery", something that we all think of as a beneficial trait is in many ways selfish, but because it has the capacity to bring benefits to the group as a whole it was a net good where as "greed" would not in almost all instances.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13829 posts
Thu May-21-15 05:01 AM

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42. "No disrespect, at all, but this seems like an impossible debate or"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-21-15 05:12 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

question to answer with a Christian, because God ordered the killing of thousands
of folks. If I point that out, you're programmed to quote the book of Isaiah on some
"God's thoughts and ways are higher than ours so it's about the end result" or something along those lines.
When you introduce that kind of thinking, either of us can say that everything is good or bad,
because it's something that God or the Universe allowed to happen... or it was necessary
in the grander scheme of things which we don't yet understand, or what have you.

In the bible, God ordered killing, so is killing "evil" or "bad"? Is it only "good" when one
proclaims to be led by God to do such a thing?
Is it cool to give up ya daughters to be raped by God's angels?
This is, precisely, where religion causes atrocious acts and gotdamn nutcases.
That "God said do it, so it's good" mentality.
If good is determined by the "God" in some of these holy books, then "mufucka
(we) fucked up, huh?" (c)Rev X






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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12659 posts
Thu May-21-15 08:19 AM

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43. "The plural of atheist is atheists."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
23190 posts
Thu May-21-15 08:41 AM

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44. "i'm not entirely sure what the question is"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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