Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #12796665

Subject: "Baltimore: How do you counter arguing 30 years of failed liberal policie..." Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49414 posts
Mon May-04-15 10:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Baltimore: How do you counter arguing 30 years of failed liberal policie..."


  

          

doomed the city to the poverty levels in now sees.

Alan West made the argument here

http://allenbwest.com/2015/04/the-dirty-little-secret-no-one-wants-to-admit-about-baltimore/

Also saw in this

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/05/02/baltimores_decline_is_all_democrats_work_126472.html


Now of course those are right leaning news sources but there is a fair point in both critiques that Dems and liberals have been in charge in Baltimore a long time and it's pretty much the pits. Are they responsible for it?


I will say the thing missing in both critiques is what conservative policies initiatives would have created a different outcome?

Anyway, thoughts?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Two words: white flight.
May 04th 2015
1
*makes jerk-off hand gesture*
May 04th 2015
2
Baltimore, like alot of places, aint on Democratic auto-pilot these days...
May 04th 2015
3
Didn't help that he refused to visit the city while...
May 04th 2015
17
I'd ask what made the policies liberal.
May 04th 2015
4
DO NOT OVERLOOK THIS REPLY
May 04th 2015
9
i'm going to because with Dems in charge
May 04th 2015
31
      Then the answer is primaries from the left
May 04th 2015
36
Good Point. I think it was assumed since Dems were in charge.
May 04th 2015
19
And that's how they win. Every Dem, no matter how red or purple gets
May 04th 2015
37
EXACTLY
May 04th 2015
30
YOP.
May 04th 2015
38
stop treating it like it's an esoteric event
May 04th 2015
5
right?
May 04th 2015
15
pretty much
May 04th 2015
27
All the way around...
May 04th 2015
29
there's alot that is being paraded on tv that i don't care for
May 04th 2015
6
O'Malley worried about running for POTUS now but...
May 04th 2015
18
      yep...and the funniest thing that i'm not sure anybody was
May 04th 2015
23
           He never had a DECENT police chief either...
May 04th 2015
28
                U aint google Batts and Domestic Violence lol
May 04th 2015
34
                     WORD?!?! He gets props for his comments on racism in...
May 04th 2015
35
                          We can't have commissioners from other states...not here
May 04th 2015
40
                               "...retired outta the blue"
May 04th 2015
42
I think he forgot how govt works
May 04th 2015
7
LOL, when jabronis pull that 'failed liberal policies' I know they're fu...
May 04th 2015
8
bu-bu-but the business left bcuz high taxes
May 04th 2015
10
most municipalities would give extra reacharounds to land that cash cow
May 04th 2015
14
Then folks are going to say: "you're angry 'cause the truth hurts"
May 04th 2015
11
      to those people, the 'truth' is finding nutritional value in excrement
May 04th 2015
26
Allen West ? LMAO
May 04th 2015
12
yeah disregard him he is the worst, but still. Can you address his point...
May 04th 2015
20
I lay a good bit of the blame at the feet of Democratic leadership
May 04th 2015
13
Yup. Its a lifetime job to them.
May 04th 2015
16
I think the assistance can *enable* poverty in a particular place
May 04th 2015
21
No.
May 04th 2015
22
Nah. Its not as if Bmore was cakey with welfare frauds
May 04th 2015
25
      I don't follow
May 04th 2015
39
           they dont leave bc of lack of choices
May 05th 2015
52
                Idaho?
May 05th 2015
62
                     The fracking boom is OVER....
May 05th 2015
66
                          Several different states
May 07th 2015
69
I thought the problem was racism/white supremacy?
May 04th 2015
24
We gonna gloss over the crack era?
May 04th 2015
32
liberal policies haven't worked there...
May 04th 2015
33
Allen West.
May 04th 2015
41
did anybody read this?:
May 04th 2015
43
the last sentence is a lie.
May 04th 2015
44
LOL... I thought the same when I first read it
May 04th 2015
47
HAHAHHAHAHA n/m
May 07th 2015
68
basically said what i said lol
May 04th 2015
45
yup...
May 04th 2015
48
Wow. Much truthiness there. I feel like blk cops may more easily wail on...
May 07th 2015
67
this is going to be a big part of the Presidential campaign so.......
May 04th 2015
46
The War On Poverty?
May 04th 2015
49
i.e.; remember when we didn't have to pay attention to Blacks, 50yrs ago...
May 05th 2015
50
Baltimore lost it's economic base and failed to reinvent itself
May 05th 2015
51
I disagree.
May 05th 2015
54
:-( http://freebeacon.com/issues/baltimore-received-1-8-billion-from-...
May 05th 2015
53
There are 4 schools in 21201:
May 05th 2015
55
the hell is a New Hope Academy? the Harbor City remix lol
May 05th 2015
57
Is the former Southern/Digital Harbor (?) in that zip code? Looks like i...
May 05th 2015
56
i would think that's like 25 or 30
May 05th 2015
58
      You could be right, but it seems to stretch for a good bit.
May 05th 2015
60
i bet alot of contractors, consultants, & administrators made good $$$
May 05th 2015
59
$135M to education in 21201, and some info regarding the ARRA
May 05th 2015
61
BULLSHIT. Liberals are the politicians. The people who run the city are...
May 05th 2015
63
Actually, liberal policies succeeded in what they were intended to do.
May 05th 2015
64
Cole, you stupid.
May 05th 2015
65

b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Mon May-04-15 10:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Two words: white flight."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Mon May-04-15 10:51 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "*makes jerk-off hand gesture*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

mud-slinging between the parties won't solve Baltimore's problems.

the Democrats are at fault. fine. so what?

and?

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BigJazz
Charter member
24443 posts
Mon May-04-15 10:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "Baltimore, like alot of places, aint on Democratic auto-pilot these days..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the election of republican governor Larry Hogan shows that voters are changing.

the Dems put up signs all over the area that simply said VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS

http://s2.legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/2014-11-02_Vote_Democratic_MD-620x426.jpg

and people were like WHY?

that's why O'Malley's boy Anthony Brown lost. it's like he wanted people to vote for him just cuz he was a Democrat.

and Baltimore HATES O'Malley's Democratic ass. he running for President is a joke cuz he wouldnt even carry his home state...

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Creole
Charter member
15425 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:06 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "Didn't help that he refused to visit the city while..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

"that's why O'Malley's boy Anthony Brown lost. it's like he wanted people to vote for him just cuz he was a Democrat."

pandering to MoCo and PG. It was almost seemingly assumed that Baltimore would show up and vote forhim just cuz. The response was that Baltimore didn't show up at all for either one.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22257 posts
Mon May-04-15 10:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "I'd ask what made the policies liberal. "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-04-15 11:13 AM by MEAT

  

          

I'm not familiar with Baltimore policy, it may be a pretty Democratic stronghold, but I've never thought of them as too progressive or liberal.

Are they raising minimum wages, investing in public schools over charters, supporting affordable mixed income housing, are their food deserts ... etc

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "DO NOT OVERLOOK THIS REPLY"
In response to Reply # 4


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "i'm going to because with Dems in charge"
In response to Reply # 9


          

they still have a racist police force.

if you have 25% of the young people in a community with arrest records (probably for dumb stuff) you have a situation where these kids have nothing to lose by rioting. It's probably almost half the males, since they rarely mess with chicks. You can debate that last point. But, either way if it's 25, 30, 40% of the males in the community getting arrrested and harrassed for dumb stuff white kids are getting away with every day that's a ticking time bomb.

And it's been dems overseeing the policy of criminalizing black kids. Whether you want to call it democratic or not is kind of irrelevant. That's the polcy and environment democrats have created in the city.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22257 posts
Mon May-04-15 01:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "Then the answer is primaries from the left"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

The issues you bring up aren't solved by Republican policies, nor are they addressed (clearly) by Republican lite policies in faux democrats.

And it's important to distinguish between actual liberal/progressive policies and figure heads that don't support them.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49414 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "Good Point. I think it was assumed since Dems were in charge. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22257 posts
Mon May-04-15 01:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "And that's how they win. Every Dem, no matter how red or purple gets "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Slapped with the "liberal" tag. And that makes it easier to denigrate good policies by applying policy values to shitty policitions.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Jon
Charter member
18687 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "EXACTLY"
In response to Reply # 4


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Mon May-04-15 01:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "YOP."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Sha
Member since Mar 25th 2004
68452 posts
Mon May-04-15 10:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
5. "stop treating it like it's an esoteric event"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and stop shifting the blame to either party.
it's a citywide issue.
systemic...
fix the shit as a whole!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
GirlChild
Charter member
56000 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "right?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

it shouldn't matter what party it is, BRING JOBS INTO THE FUCKING CITY!

regulate on the police

fix the schools

i mean there's soOo many places you could start

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Sha
Member since Mar 25th 2004
68452 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
27. "pretty much"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Creole
Charter member
15425 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "All the way around..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


>fix the shit as a whole!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Mon May-04-15 10:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "there's alot that is being paraded on tv that i don't care for"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but I will chill and watch how this plays out


like half of them ...nahh lemme stop

i'll chill



this ain't nothing but the O'Malley administration AND police dept still in play....nobody (politics wise) changed anything

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Creole
Charter member
15425 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:10 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "O'Malley worried about running for POTUS now but..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


>
>this ain't nothing but the O'Malley administration AND police
>dept still in play....nobody (politics wise) changed anything
>

The "kids" that popped it all off last week are the children of the men taken off the streets during O'Malley's zero tolerance policy movement.

He'll never cop to it though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "yep...and the funniest thing that i'm not sure anybody was"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

catchin is his police chief...Ed Norris

they had him on the networks and he is stuck in supercop mode basically proving that he/they was a problem


the 2nd nite of the rallys when they had the curfew...they had Ed on CNN asking what he would do in this scenario....he was like I would go in and lock ALL of em up....like now

the other 2 cops on there were like whoa now buddy...I think they have a handle on this and its not getting too out of hand....see ....it worked

and I actually like Ed as a sports guy in the am but as a cop...pshhhh

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Creole
Charter member
15425 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:37 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "He never had a DECENT police chief either..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Ed Norris, Kevin Clark, Leonard Hamm are fine examples of this. Honestly, Batts is a godsend compared to these dudes.

Ed Norris:
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/baltimore-boots-ex-nypd-chief-article-1.607102

Kevin Clark:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-te.md.clark11nov11-story.html#page=1

Leonard Hamm:
http://www.wbaltv.com/Baltimore-mayor-to-Announce-Leonard-Hamm-s-resignation/8957992


ABC News on O'Malley:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/omalley-scrutiny-police-record-baltimore-mayor-30780840

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "U aint google Batts and Domestic Violence lol"
In response to Reply # 28
Mon May-04-15 01:03 PM by ambient1

  

          

http://baltimorecrime.blogspot.com/2012/09/anthony-batts-black-eyed-past.html



my man in the NG was saying the other cops HATE dude



they think him n Steph bumpin uglies

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Creole
Charter member
15425 posts
Mon May-04-15 01:08 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "WORD?!?! He gets props for his comments on racism in..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

RE: U aint google Batts and Domestic Violence lol

B'more. So, I gave him a pass from my normal levels of scrutiny. Now, I gotta check him out though.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bal-batts-elaborates-on-comments-that-baltimore-suffers-from-1950s-racism-20150228-story.html

Basically, what you've just shared proves that not one of these mofos, spanning at least the last three administrations, have been worth a damn. And here I am about keep riding for this dude. Oh well!

Dpmestic violence:
http://baltimorecrime.blogspot.com/2012/09/anthony-batts-black-eyed-past.html
http://www.longbeachcomber.com/story.aspx?artID=2368

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Mon May-04-15 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "We can't have commissioners from other states...not here"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

we different lol



Bealfeld wasn't that bad imo....yo just up and retired outta the blue

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Creole
Charter member
15425 posts
Mon May-04-15 01:57 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. ""...retired outta the blue""
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Translates to: "I took this job to maximize my salary before retiring. Now that I have the time ingrade in, I'm outta this mofo."


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DaHeathenOne76
Member since May 11th 2003
29362 posts
Mon May-04-15 10:59 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "I think he forgot how govt works"
In response to Reply # 0


          

So basically he is blaming local government for trickle down economics.


Okay



Both parties are terrible to the poor.
*****************************************
http://www.iamsharandajones.org/help

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. "LOL, when jabronis pull that 'failed liberal policies' I know they're fu..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

what they mean: "30 years of electing Democrats"

what they're missing: see reply 1.
White Flight.

the more "black" an area gets, the less corporate assholes want to plant their stakes in an area, unless it becomes "less black"

plenty of viable land/office space out there not being used because mofos simply don't want to be over there.

diminished economic opportunity + blight = da poo poo.

ain't got SHIT to do with "liberal" policies

in fact, if you come around saying that bullshit, I'm gonna flip a table and go for your head

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "bu-bu-but the business left bcuz high taxes"
In response to Reply # 8


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
14. "most municipalities would give extra reacharounds to land that cash cow"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

they always make me laugh with that "tax" talk

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
13962 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:14 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "Then folks are going to say: "you're angry 'cause the truth hurts""
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

violent behavior makes folks think the truth has caused an effect in you.


>in fact, if you come around saying that bullshit, I'm gonna
>flip a table and go for your head

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
26. "to those people, the 'truth' is finding nutritional value in excrement"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

neuro_OSX
Member since Oct 29th 2004
1157 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "Allen West ? LMAO"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The same fool who compared himself to Harriet Tubman.. That negro is the conductor of the coon train


Speaking with O’Reilly Factor guest host Laura Ingraham in August 2011, West said the Democratic party is a “21st-century plantation.” He added, “So I’m here as the modern-day Harriet Tubman, to kind of lead people on the Underground Railroad, away from that plantation into a sense of sensibility.”

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49414 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "yeah disregard him he is the worst, but still. Can you address his point..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Overqualified
Member since May 03rd 2006
4543 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "I lay a good bit of the blame at the feet of Democratic leadership"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not necessarily "policies". There's incumbents on the City Council who've been there for DECADES. Lesser tenured ones who are opportunists. Essentially do-nothings who are concentrating on the next election cycle and having a title in front of their name. Couple that with a VERY apathetic and disengaged electorate and you get what you got. However, there were crucial missteps in Baltimore's history that toppled the dominoes to get us to this current state...HEROIN, a tone deaf attitude to repositioning the city once heavy industry and the port jobs disappeared, trying to offset a miniscule tax base with astronomical property taxes - keeping people from buying and investing in the city, major failed city run projects that were political plays - the convention center hotels, the Horseshoe is on it's way...the list goes on. And in the midst of all of it, the programs that matter - education, recs, job development, etc. saw their budgets slashed. It's not a unique problem to Baltimore, but it's definitely one that hurt more due to the city's dynamics.

Streets won't let me chill.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Mon May-04-15 11:40 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
16. "Yup. Its a lifetime job to them. "
In response to Reply # 13
Mon May-04-15 11:41 AM by BigReg

  

          

>Not necessarily "policies". There's incumbents on the City
>Council who've been there for DECADES. Lesser tenured ones
>who are opportunists. Essentially do-nothings who are
>concentrating on the next election cycle and having a title in
>front of their name. Couple that with a VERY apathetic and
>disengaged electorate and you get what you got.

And its an issue you would have in any other city with a hardcore party lockdown (demo or repub) along with a very passive view towards politics along with a healthy dose of corruption

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10884 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "I think the assistance can *enable* poverty in a particular place"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The assistance provides an incentive to stay in an economically depressed area instead of moving to seek better opportunities.

That doesn't mean the people leaving would necessarily be better off somewhere else, but they would be less likely to stick around in what is very likely to be a dead-end city or town.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "No."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:24 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
25. "Nah. Its not as if Bmore was cakey with welfare frauds"
In response to Reply # 21
Mon May-04-15 12:24 PM by BigReg

  

          

remember relocating costs ALOT of cash; if you're destitute you aren't moving. Living in an abandoned house that no one is going to kick you out of is better then living nowhere.

>The assistance provides an incentive to stay in an
>economically depressed area instead of moving to seek better
>opportunities.
>
>That doesn't mean the people leaving would necessarily be
>better off somewhere else, but they would be less likely to
>stick around in what is very likely to be a dead-end city or
>town.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10884 posts
Mon May-04-15 01:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "I don't follow"
In response to Reply # 25
Mon May-04-15 01:26 PM by Cocobrotha2

          

>remember relocating costs ALOT of cash; if you're destitute
>you aren't moving. Living in an abandoned house that no one
>is going to kick you out of is better then living nowhere.
>
>>The assistance provides an incentive to stay in an
>>economically depressed area instead of moving to seek better
>>opportunities.
>>
>>That doesn't mean the people leaving would necessarily be
>>better off somewhere else, but they would be less likely to
>>stick around in what is very likely to be a dead-end city or
>>town.
>

I think about this in terms of rural places as well. Someone was telling me how public assistance caused poverty in their mining hometown out in West Virginia. The mine "dried" up and now it's just people getting by on assistance checks and subsistence farming.

Part of me is like "Why the heck are people staying there if the only economical reason for being there is gone?" Well, I'm sure they've got a lot of history in the area... a bunch of family ties... maybe even some personal support networks that help ease things. There's also comfort in the familiar.

On top of all that though, there's also the assistance makes it a little bit easier to stay as well. It may not be the overriding factor, but it's an incentive to stay when leaving is probably inevitable.

But maybe these people truly are trapped, as you seem to be suggesting.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Tue May-05-15 08:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
52. "they dont leave bc of lack of choices"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

where are you going to go? how are you going to get there? how happy of a homeless person will you be?

like these are the preparation questions for leaving a blighted area lol

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10884 posts
Tue May-05-15 02:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "Idaho?"
In response to Reply # 52


          

>where are you going to go? how are you going to get there?
>how happy of a homeless person will you be?
>
>like these are the preparation questions for leaving a
>blighted area lol
>
>


There are a bunch of new oil related jobs int he fracking industry out there. There's such lack of man power and infrastructure out there that people are making 6 figures while living in mobile homes. Many of the folks out there came from nothing themselves with just the clothes on their backs.

That's something big... there are certainly smaller instances where there are open job opportunities out there if someone is willing to take the risk of relocation. And people regularly move without being able to concretely answer the questions you've listed. I mean, what kind of assurances were given to those that emigrated out of the south to work in northern factories? People legally and illegally immigrate to the US with next to nothing.

This is all not to say that the folks that stay behind in our inner core citiesare lazy, unmotivated, unambitious, etc... and I'm not arguing against providing assistance to families in need. But you're questions show the inertia that makes it hard for some to leave for even the potential of better opportunities and available assistance is part of that inertia.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Tue May-05-15 08:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "The fracking boom is OVER...."
In response to Reply # 62


          

And rent was at manhattan prices in these towns.

Not sure it was ever a thing in Idaho. It was in the dakotas.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10884 posts
Thu May-07-15 01:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "Several different states"
In response to Reply # 66


          

>And rent was at manhattan prices in these towns.
>
>Not sure it was ever a thing in Idaho. It was in the dakotas.
>


Rents were high because there was limited housing and a huge new influx people. So people ended up living out of trailers while making healthy incomes.

Either way, alot of blue collar folks made some good money for a couple years and many still are because these operations haven't been completely shut down. Possibly picked up some new skills that might make them more marketable... partially because they were willing to take the risk to go where the jobs are.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "I thought the problem was racism/white supremacy?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I must of been thinking about a different country.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Binlahab
Charter member
182954 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "We gonna gloss over the crack era? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Give Reagan & bush love?

Hell no.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Mon May-04-15 12:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "liberal policies haven't worked there..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

conservative policies haven't worked elsewhere.
this state has been run by conservatives and i would say it's been run pretty well overall.
2% unemployment for state overall. maybe lower in major cities.
but the black people are still poor. the black area is still rundown and extremely dangerous.
i don't know if policy can fix this pernicious problem with racism we have.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Case_One
Charter member
54687 posts
Mon May-04-15 01:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "Allen West. "
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

jimi
Charter member
4614 posts
Mon May-04-15 02:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "did anybody read this?:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it gives some background as to what's been going on as far as policing goes..

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish


David Simon on Baltimore’s Anguish
Freddie Gray, the drug war, and the decline of “real policing.”
By BILL KELLER
David Simon is Baltimore’s best-known chronicler of life on the hard streets. He worked for The Baltimore Sun city desk for a dozen years, wrote “Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets” (1991) and with former homicide detective Ed Burns co-wrote “THE CORNER: A YEAR IN THE LIFE OF AN INNER-CITY NEIGHBORHOOD”1 (1997), which Simon adapted into an HBO miniseries. He is the creator, executive producer and head writer of the HBO television series “The Wire” (2002–2008). Simon is a member of The Marshall Project’s advisory board. He spoke with Bill Keller on Tuesday.
"THE CORNER: A YEAR IN THE LIFE OF AN INNER-CITY NEIGHBORHOOD"1
"The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood" by David Simon and former Boston homicide detective Ed Burns, 1997BK: What do people outside the city need to understand about what’s going on there — the death of Freddie Gray and the response to it?DS: I guess there's an awful lot to understand and I’m not sure I understand all of it. The part that seems systemic and connected is that the drug war — which Baltimore waged as aggressively as any American city — was transforming in terms of police/community relations, in terms of trust, particularly between the black community and the police department. Probable cause was destroyed by the drug war. It happened in stages, but even in the time that I was a police reporter, which would have been the early 80s to the early 90s, the need for police officers to address the basic rights of the people they were policing in Baltimore was minimized. It was done almost as a plan by the local government, by police commissioners and mayors, and it not only made everybody in these poor communities vulnerable to the most arbitrary behavior on the part of the police officers, it taught police officers how not to distinguish in ways that they once did.
“If I had to guess and put a name on it, I’d say that at some point, the drug war was as much a function of class and social control as it was of racism.”
Probable cause from a Baltimore police officer has always been a tenuous thing. It’s a tenuous thing anywhere, but in Baltimore, in these high crime, heavily policed areas, it was even worse. When I came on, there were jokes about, “You know what probable cause is on Edmondson Avenue? You roll by in your radio car and the guy looks at you for two seconds too long.” Probable cause was whatever you thought you could safely lie about when you got into district court.Then at some point when cocaine hit and the city lost control of a lot of corners and the violence was ratcheted up, there was a real panic on the part of the government. And they basically decided that even that loose idea of what the Fourth Amendment was supposed to mean on a street level, even that was too much. Now all bets were off. Now you didn't even need probable cause. The city council actually passed an ordinance that declared a certain amount of real estate to be drug-free zones. They literally declared maybe a quarter to a third of inner city Baltimore off-limits to its residents, and said that if you were loitering in those areas you were subject to arrest and search. Think about that for a moment: It was a permission for the police to become truly random and arbitrary and to clear streets any way they damn well wanted.How does race figure into this? It’s a city with a black majority and now a black mayor and black police chief, a substantially black police force.What did Tom Wolfe write about cops? They all become Irish? That's a line in “Bonfire of the Vanities.” When Ed and I reported “The Corner,” it became clear that the most brutal cops in our sector of the Western District were black. The guys who would really kick your ass without thinking twice were black officers. If I had to guess and put a name on it, I’d say that at some point, the drug war was as much a function of class and social control as it was of racism. I think the two agendas are inextricably linked, and where one picks up and the other ends is hard to say. But when you have African-American officers beating the dog-piss out of people they’re supposed to be policing, and there isn't a white guy in the equation on a street level, it's pretty remarkable. But in some ways they were empowered. Back then, even before the advent of cell phones and digital cameras — which have been transforming in terms of documenting police violence — back then, you were much more vulnerable if you were white and you wanted to wail on somebody. You take out your nightstick and you’re white and you start hitting somebody, it has a completely different dynamic than if you were a black officer. It was simply safer to be brutal if you were black, and I didn't know quite what to do with that fact other than report it. It was as disturbing a dynamic as I could imagine. Something had been removed from the equation that gave white officers — however brutal they wanted to be, or however brutal they thought the moment required — it gave them pause before pulling out a nightstick and going at it. Some African American officers seemed to feel no such pause.What the drug war did, though, was make this all a function of social control. This was simply about keeping the poor down, and that war footing has been an excuse for everybody to operate outside the realm of procedure and law. And the city willingly and legally gave itself over to that, beginning with the drug-free zones and with the misuse of what are known on the street in the previous generation as ‘humbles.’ A humble is a cheap, inconsequential arrest that nonetheless gives the guy a night or two in jail before he sees a court commissioner. You can arrest people on “failure to obey,” it’s a humble. Loitering is a humble. These things were used by police officers going back to the ‘60s in Baltimore. It’s the ultimate recourse for a cop who doesn't like somebody who's looking at him the wrong way. And yet, back in the day, there was, I think, more of a code to it. If you were on a corner, you knew certain things would catch you a humble. The code was really ornate, and I’m not suggesting in any way that the code was always justifiable in any sense, but there was a code.In some districts, if you called a Baltimore cop a motherfucker in the 80s and even earlier, that was not generally a reason to go to jail. If the cop came up to clear your corner and you're moving off the corner, and out of the side of your mouth you call him a motherfucker, you're not necessarily going to jail if that cop knows his business and played according to code. Everyone gets called a motherfucker, that’s within the realm of general complaint. But the word “asshole” — that’s how ornate the code was — asshole had a personal connotation. You call a cop an asshole, you're going hard into the wagon in Baltimore. At least it used to be that way. Who knows if those gradations or nuances have survived the cumulative brutalities of the drug war. I actually don’t know if anything resembling a code even exists now.For example, you look at the people that Baltimore was beating down in that list in THAT STORY THE SUN PUBLISHED LAST YEAR2 about municipal payouts for police brutality, and it shows no discernable or coherent pattern. There's no code at all, it’s just, what side of the bed did I get up on this morning and who looked at me first? And that is a function of people failing to learn how to police. When you are beating on 15-year-old kids and elderly retirees – and you aren’t even managing to put even plausible misdemeanor charges on some arrestees, you’ve lost all professional ethos.
THAT STORY THE SUN PUBLISHED LAST YEAR2
In 2014 The Baltimore Sun published a breakdown of money awarded to settle claims of police brutality, totaling $5.7 million.The drug war began it, certainly, but the stake through the heart of police procedure in Baltimore was MARTIN O’MALLEY3. He destroyed police work in some real respects. Whatever was left of it when he took over the police department, if there were two bricks together that were the suggestion of an edifice that you could have called meaningful police work, he found a way to pull them apart. Everyone thinks I’ve got a hard-on for Marty because we battled over “The Wire,” whether it was bad for the city, whether we’d be filming it in Baltimore. But it’s been years, and I mean, that’s over. I shook hands with him on the train last year and we buried it. And, hey, if he's the Democratic nominee, I’m going to end up voting for him. It’s not personal and I admire some of his other stances on the death penalty and gay rights. But to be honest, what happened under his watch as Baltimore’s mayor was that he wanted to be governor. And at a certain point, with the crime rate high and with his promises of a reduced crime rate on the line, he put no faith in real policing.
MARTIN O’MALLEY3
O'Malley was mayor of Baltimore from 1999 to 2007, governor of Maryland from 2007 to 2015, and may seek the Democratic nomination for president in 2016. “The drug war began it, certainly, but the stake through the heart of police procedure in Baltimore was Martin O’Malley.” Originally, early in his tenure, O’Malley brought Ed Norris in as commissioner and Ed knew his business. He’d been a criminal investigator and commander in New York and he knew police work. And so, for a time, real crime suppression and good retroactive investigation was emphasized, and for the Baltimore department, it was kind of like a fat man going on a diet. Just leave the French fries on the plate and you lose the first ten pounds. The initial crime reductions in Baltimore under O’Malley were legit and O’Malley deserved some credit.But that wasn’t enough. O’Malley needed to show crime reduction stats that were not only improbable, but unsustainable without manipulation. And so there were people from City Hall who walked over Norris and made it clear to the district commanders that crime was going to fall by some astonishing rates. Eventually, Norris got fed up with the interference from City Hall and walked, and then more malleable police commissioners followed, until indeed, the crime rate fell dramatically. On paper.How? There were two initiatives. First, the department began sweeping the streets of the inner city, taking bodies on ridiculous humbles, mass arrests, sending thousands of people to city jail, hundreds every night, thousands in a month. They actually had police supervisors stationed with printed forms at the city jail – forms that said, essentially, you can go home now if you sign away any liability the city has for false arrest, or you can not sign the form and spend the weekend in jail until you see a court commissioner. And tens of thousands of people signed that form.
“Now, the mass arrests made clear, we can lock up anybody, we don't have to figure out who's committing crimes, we don't have to investigate anything.”
My own crew members used to get picked up trying to come from the set at night. We’d wrap at like one in the morning, and we’d be in the middle of East Baltimore and they’d start to drive home, they’d get pulled over. My first assistant director — Anthony Hemingway — ended up at city jail. No charge. Driving while black, and then trying to explain that he had every right to be where he was, and he ended up on EAGER STREET4. Charges were non-existent, or were dismissed en masse. Martin O’Malley’s logic was pretty basic: If we clear the streets, they’ll stop shooting at each other. We’ll lower the murder rate because there will be no one on the corners.
EAGER STREET4
Eager Street is the location of the notorious Baltimore City Detention Center. The jail was embroiled in a widespread corruption scandal that resulted in dozens of inmates and corrections officers convicted on federal charges. It has also been under a federal civil rights investigation for more than a decade over its use of solitary confinement for juvenile offenders.The city eventually got sued by the ACLU and had to settle, but O’Malley defends the wholesale denigration of black civil rights to this day. Never mind what it did to your jury pool: now every single person of color in Baltimore knows the police will lie — and that's your jury pool for when you really need them for when you have, say, a felony murder case. But what it taught the police department was that they could go a step beyond the manufactured probable cause, and the drug-free zones and the humbles – the targeting of suspects through less-than-constitutional procedure. Now, the mass arrests made clear, we can lock up anybody, we don't have to figure out who's committing crimes, we don't have to investigate anything, we just gather all the bodies — everybody goes to jail. And yet people were scared enough of crime in those years that O’Malley had his supporters for this policy, council members and community leaders who thought, They’re all just thugs.But they weren’t. They were anybody who was slow to clear the sidewalk or who stayed seated on their front stoop for too long when an officer tried to roust them. Schoolteachers, Johns Hopkins employees, film crew people, kids, retirees, everybody went to the city jail. If you think I’m exaggerating look it up. It was an amazing performance by the city’s mayor and his administration.The situation you described has been around for a while. Do you have a sense of why the Freddie Gray death has been such a catalyst for the response we’ve seen in the last 48 hours?Because the documented litany of police violence is now out in the open. There’s an actual theme here that’s being made evident by the digital revolution. It used to be our word against yours. It used to be said — correctly — that the patrolman on the beat on any American police force was the last perfect tyranny. Absent a herd of reliable witnesses, there were things he could do to deny you your freedom or kick your ass that were between him, you, and the street. The smartphone with its small, digital camera, is a revolution in civil liberties.
“They’re an army of occupation. And once it’s that, then everybody’s the enemy.”
And if there’s still some residual code, if there’s still some attempt at precision in the street-level enforcement, then maybe you duck most of the outrage. Maybe you’re just cutting the procedural corners with the known players on your post – assuming you actually know the corner players, that you know your business as a street cop. But at some point, when there was no code, no precision, then they didn’t know. Why would they? In these drug-saturated neighborhoods, they weren’t policing their post anymore, they weren’t policing real estate that they were protecting from crime. They weren’t nurturing informants, or learning how to properly investigate anything. There’s a real skill set to good police work. But no, they were just dragging the sidewalks, hunting stats, and these inner-city neighborhoods — which were indeed drug-saturated because that's the only industry left — become just hunting grounds. They weren’t protecting anything. They weren’t serving anyone. They were collecting bodies, treating corner folk and citizens alike as an Israeli patrol would treat the West Bank, or as the Afrikaners would have treated Soweto back in the day. They’re an army of occupation. And once it’s that, then everybody’s the enemy. The police aren’t looking to make friends, or informants, or learning how to write clean warrants or how to testify in court without perjuring themselves unnecessarily. There's no incentive to get better as investigators, as cops. There’s no reason to solve crime. In the years they were behaving this way, locking up the entire world, the clearance rate for murder dove by 30 percent. The clearance rate for aggravated assault — every felony arrest rate – took a significant hit. Think about that. If crime is going down, and crime is going down, and if we have less murders than ever before and we have more homicide detectives assigned, and better evidentiary technologies to employ how is the clearance rate for homicide now 48 percent when it used to be 70 percent, or 75 percent?Because the drug war made cops lazy and less competent?How do you reward cops? Two ways: promotion and cash. That's what rewards a cop. If you want to pay overtime pay for having police fill the jails with loitering arrests or simple drug possession or failure to yield, if you want to spend your municipal treasure rewarding that, well the cop who’s going to court 7 or 8 days a month — and court is always overtime pay — you're going to damn near double your salary every month. On the other hand, the guy who actually goes to his post and investigates who's burglarizing the homes, at the end of the month maybe he’s made one arrest. It may be the right arrest and one that makes his post safer, but he's going to court one day and he's out in two hours. So you fail to reward the cop who actually does police work. But worse, it’s time to make new sergeants or lieutenants, and so you look at the computer and say: Who's doing the most work? And they say, man, this guy had 80 arrests last month, and this other guy’s only got one. Who do you think gets made sergeant? And then who trains the next generation of cops in how not to do police work? I’ve just described for you the culture of the Baltimore police department amid the deluge of the drug war, where actual investigation goes unrewarded and where rounding up bodies for street dealing, drug possession, loitering such – the easiest and most self-evident arrests a cop can make – is nonetheless the path to enlightenment and promotion and some additional pay. That’s what the drug war built, and that’s what Martin O’Malley affirmed when he sent so much of inner city Baltimore into the police wagons on a regular basis.The second thing Marty did, in order to be governor, involves the stats themselves. In the beginning, under Norris, he did get a better brand of police work and we can credit a legitimate 12 to 15 percent decline in homicides. Again, that was a restoration of an investigative deterrent in the early years of that administration. But it wasn’t enough to declare a Baltimore Miracle, by any means.What can you do? You can’t artificially lower the murder rate – how do you hide the bodies when it’s the state health department that controls the medical examiner’s office? But the other felony categories? Robbery, aggravated assault, rape? Christ, what they did with that stuff was jaw-dropping.So they cooked the books.Oh yeah. If you hit somebody with a bullet, that had to count. If they went to the hospital with a bullet in them, it probably had to count as an aggravated assault. But if someone just took a gun out and emptied the clip and didn't hit anything or they didn't know if you hit anything, suddenly that was a common assault or even an unfounded report. Armed robberies became larcenies if you only had a victim’s description of a gun, but not a recovered weapon. And it only gets worse as some district commanders began to curry favor with the mayoral aides who were sitting on the Comstat data. In the Southwest District, a victim would try to make an armed robbery complaint, saying , ‘I just got robbed, somebody pointed a gun at me,’ and what they would do is tell him, well, okay, we can take the report but the first thing we have to do is run you through the computer to see if there's any paper on you. Wait, you're doing a warrant check on me before I can report a robbery? Oh yeah, we gotta know who you are before we take a complaint. You and everyone you’re living with? What’s your address again? You still want to report that robbery?They cooked their own books in remarkable ways. Guns disappeared from reports and armed robberies became larcenies. Deadly weapons were omitted from reports and aggravated assaults became common assaults. The Baltimore Sun did a fine job looking into the dramatic drop in rapes in the city. Turned out that regardless of how insistent the victims were that they had been raped, the incidents were being quietly unfounded. That tip of the iceberg was reported, but the rest of it, no. And yet there were many veteran commanders and supervisors who were disgusted, who would privately complain about what was happening. If you weren’t a journalist obliged to quote sources and instead, say, someone writing a fictional television drama, they’d share a beer and let you fill cocktail napkins with all the ways in which felonies disappeared in those years.I mean, think about it. How does the homicide rate decline by 15 percent, while the agg assault rate falls by more than double that rate. Are all of Baltimore’s felons going to gun ranges in the county? Are they becoming better shots? Have the mortality rates for serious assault victims in Baltimore, Maryland suddenly doubled? Did they suddenly close the Hopkins and University emergency rooms and return trauma care to the dark ages? It makes no sense statistically until you realize that you can’t hide a murder, but you can make an attempted murder disappear in a heartbeat, no problem.But these guys weren't satisfied with just juking their own stats. No, the O'Malley administration also went back to the last year of the previous mayoralty and performed its own retroactive assessment of those felony totals, and guess what? It was determined from this special review that the preceding administration had underreported its own crime rate, which O'Malley rectified by upgrading a good chunk of misdemeanors into felonies to fatten up the Baltimore crime rate that he was inheriting. Get it? How better than to later claim a 30 or 40 percent reduction in crime than by first juking up your inherited rate as high as she'll go. It really was that cynical an exercise.So Martin O’Malley proclaims a Baltimore Miracle and moves to Annapolis. And tellingly, when his successor as mayor allows a new police commissioner to finally de-emphasize street sweeps and mass arrests and instead focus on gun crime, that’s when the murder rate really dives. That’s when violence really goes down. When a drug arrest or a street sweep is suddenly not the standard for police work, when violence itself is directly addressed, that’s when Baltimore makes some progress.
“Freddie Gray runs, and so when he's caught he takes an asskicking and then goes into the back of a wagon without so much as a nod to the Fourth Amendment.”
But nothing corrects the legacy of a police department in which the entire rank-and-file has been rewarded and affirmed for collecting bodies, for ignoring probable cause, for grabbing anyone they see for whatever reason. And so, fast forward to Sandtown and the Gilmor Homes, where Freddie Gray gives some Baltimore police the legal equivalent of looking at them a second or two too long. He runs, and so when he’s caught he takes an ass-kicking and then goes into the back of a wagon without so much as a nod to the Fourth Amendment.So do you see how this ends or how it begins to turn around?We end the drug war. I know I sound like a broken record, but we end the fucking drug war. The drug war gives everybody permission to do anything. It gives cops permission to stop anybody, to go in anyone’s pockets, to manufacture any lie when they get to district court. You sit in the district court in Baltimore and you hear, ‘Your Honor, he was walking out of the alley and I saw him lift up the glassine bag and tap it lightly.’ No fucking dope fiend in Baltimore has ever walked out of an alley displaying a glassine bag for all the world to see. But it keeps happening over and over in the Western District court. The drug war gives everybody permission. And if it were draconian and we were fixing anything that would be one thing, but it’s draconian and it's a disaster.When you say, end the drug war, you mean basically decriminalize or stop enforcing?Medicalize the problem, decriminalize — I don't need drugs to be declared legal, but if a Baltimore State’s Attorney told all his assistant state’s attorneys today, from this moment on, we are not signing overtime slips for court pay for possession, for simple loitering in a drug-free zone, for loitering, for failure to obey, we’re not signing slips for that: Nobody gets paid for that bullshit, go out and do real police work. If that were to happen, then all at once, the standards for what constitutes a worthy arrest in Baltimore would significantly improve. Take away the actual incentive to do bad or useless police work, which is what the drug war has become.You didn't ask me about the rough rides, or as I used to hear in the western district, “the bounce.” It used to be reserved — as I say, when there was a code to this thing, as flawed as it might have been by standards of the normative world — by standards of Baltimore, there was a code to when you gave the guy the bounce or the rough ride. And it was this: He fought the police. Two things get your ass kicked faster than anything: one is making a cop run. If he catches you, you're 18 years old, you've got fucking Nikes, he’s got cop shoes, he's wearing a utility belt, if you fucking run and he catches you, you're gonna take some lumps. That’s always been part of the code. RODNEY KING5 could’ve quoted that much of it to you.
RODNEY KING5
Rodney King was a taxi driver beaten by Los Angeles Police Department officers following a high-speed car chase in 1991. The beating was caught by a TV camera, and the acquittal of the officers involved sparked riots in L.A.But the other thing that gets you beat is if you fight. So the rough ride was reserved for the guys who fought the police, who basically made — in the cop parlance — assholes of themselves. And yet, you look at the sheet for poor Mr. Gray, and you look at the nature of the arrest and you look at the number of police who made the arrest, you look at the nature of what they were charging him with — if anything, because again there’s a complete absence of probable cause — and you look at the fact that the guy hasn’t got much propensity for serious violence according to his sheet, and you say, How did this guy get a rough ride? How did that happen? Is this really the arrest that you were supposed to make today? And then, if you were supposed to make it, was this the guy that needed an ass-kicking on the street, or beyond that, a hard ride to the lockup?I’m talking in the vernacular of cops, not my own — but even in the vernacular of what cops secretly think is fair, this is bullshit, this is a horror show. There doesn’t seem to be much code anymore – not that the code was always entirely clean or valid to anyone other than street cops, and maybe the hardcore corner players, but still it was something at least. “Too many officers who came up in a culture that taught them not the hard job of policing, but simply how to roam the city, jack everyone up, and call for the wagon.” I mean, I know there are still a good many Baltimore cops who know their jobs and do their jobs some real integrity and even precision. But if you look at why the city of Baltimore paid that $5.7 million for beating down people over the last few years, it’s clear that there are way too many others for whom no code exists. Anyone and everyone was a potential ass-whipping – even people that were never otherwise charged with any real crimes. It’s astonishing. By the standard of that long list, Freddie Gray becomes almost plausible as a victim. He was a street guy. And before he came along, there were actual working people — citizens, taxpayers — who were indistinguishable from criminal suspects in the eyes of the police who were beating them down. Again, that’s a department that has a diminished capacity to actually respond to crime or investigate crime, or to even distinguish innocence or guilt. And that comes from too many officers who came up in a culture that taught them not the hard job of policing, but simply how to roam the city, jack everyone up, and call for the wagon. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Mon May-04-15 03:05 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "the last sentence is a lie."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
jimi
Charter member
4614 posts
Mon May-04-15 03:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "LOL... I thought the same when I first read it"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          


@silentintellect

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
13Rose
Charter member
19379 posts
Thu May-07-15 12:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
68. "HAHAHHAHAHA n/m"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Mon May-04-15 03:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "basically said what i said lol"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
jimi
Charter member
4614 posts
Mon May-04-15 03:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "yup..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          


@silentintellect

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
14614 posts
Thu May-07-15 10:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
67. "Wow. Much truthiness there. I feel like blk cops may more easily wail on..."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

If that's his argument

But white cops would be far more deadly
And face fewer consequences


As for tying in the op question, dems did not kick start the war on drugs
-Tho they did nothing to stop it

Or shut down factories



)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
13962 posts
Mon May-04-15 03:17 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "this is going to be a big part of the Presidential campaign so......."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Whoever the Democratic Nominee is going to be is going to have to come up with some.....something.


Even Mitt Romney was recently saying Hillary's comment on "over-incarceration" was just a play for minority votes.


So.....this is going to be a thing in the election.

Hillary getting angry and rushing her GOP opponent during a debate when GOP analysis of Baltimore/Ferguson comes up (reply #8) ain't going to work.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Mon May-04-15 03:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "The War On Poverty?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

nonaime
Charter member
3117 posts
Tue May-05-15 03:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "i.e.; remember when we didn't have to pay attention to Blacks, 50yrs ago..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

~~~~~~~~
A bad Samaritan averaging above average men (c) DOOM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue May-05-15 07:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "Baltimore lost it's economic base and failed to reinvent itself"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-05-15 07:37 AM by B9

          

It's basically Detroit or St Louis light on the east coast, still clinging on to the vestiges of industrial production that collapsed in the late 20th Century following national trade/treaty deals without adequately replacing or responding to that collapse and very few modern corporations/industries. Economically, they just do not have the wiggle room to offer the sorts of tax breaks to lure major corporations there, especially in comparison to competing states and metropolitan regions in the area, and the infrastructure is the sort of planned clusterfuck that cripples all of the DCMA that no major corp wants any part of. It's one city, among many, that was treated as collateral damage by the Reagan/Bush/Clinton trade-race, and there just isn't much blame you can put on a triage nurse (the city government) for not stopping the bleeding on a patient who had their legs blown off.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Tue May-05-15 10:04 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
54. "I disagree. "
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

http://baltimoredevelopment.com/about-baltimore/top-employers/

Baltimore's top employers are in higher education and healthcare. What you're talking about is the failure of the city of post-industrial cities to pivot on the structural changes involved in industry giving way to services. That has a lot to do with educating people to engage effectively in a modern workforce, and education is a cornerstone of municipal and state policy. I attribute a lot of Baltimore's problems with White flight because once the city became Black majority, you had a protracted length of time where the White bureaucracy didn't give enough of a fuck to invest in education or youth programming to cultivate a skilled native workforce.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Tue May-05-15 09:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. ":-( http://freebeacon.com/issues/baltimore-received-1-8-billion-from-..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://freebeacon.com/issues/baltimore-received-1-8-billion-from-obamas-stimulus-law/



un .....real


467.1 mill....to education.......in 21201....................................................................................


someone please tell me


what school......


is in 21201
school for the arts?? lol

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Sha
Member since Mar 25th 2004
68452 posts
Tue May-05-15 10:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
55. "There are 4 schools in 21201: "
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

http://www.publicschoolreview.com/zipcode_schools/stateid/MD/zipcode/21201

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Tue May-05-15 10:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "the hell is a New Hope Academy? the Harbor City remix lol"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

I heard of the elementary school

but either way this is ridiculous

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Overqualified
Member since May 03rd 2006
4543 posts
Tue May-05-15 10:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "Is the former Southern/Digital Harbor (?) in that zip code? Looks like i..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

I could see a good bit of money going there, but not 400 Mil.

Streets won't let me chill.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Tue May-05-15 10:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "i would think that's like 25 or 30"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Overqualified
Member since May 03rd 2006
4543 posts
Tue May-05-15 10:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "You could be right, but it seems to stretch for a good bit. "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

My memory is kind hazy. Here's a map:

http://www.city-data.com/zips/21201.html

Streets won't let me chill.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BigJazz
Charter member
24443 posts
Tue May-05-15 10:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "i bet alot of contractors, consultants, & administrators made good $$$"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

off this...

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue May-05-15 11:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "$135M to education in 21201, and some info regarding the ARRA"
In response to Reply # 53


          

And here is what it included for 21201:

The ARRA funds carried over under the Tydings Amendment Waiver are being used by districts for the following activities: Title I ARRA funds from Baltimore City were spent on salaries and wages, supplies and materials, transportation, effectiveness review, parent involvement, equitable services, indirect cost recovery, services for homeless children, and contracted services. SIG 1003a ARRA funds from Baltimore County were spent on salaries and wages, supplies and materials, professional development, and contracted services.


And just general FYI regarding the ARRA funding for education (and other programs): It was both a stimulus program and (most importantly in some cases) a bridge program to cover massive budget gaps in municipalities and states that were hard hit by revenue collection post recession. Public education is funded overwhelmingly by property tax collection; when over-valued homes are being foreclosed on, public schools become crippled without outside aide.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Castro
Charter member
50749 posts
Tue May-05-15 03:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "BULLSHIT. Liberals are the politicians. The people who run the city are..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the bankers, developers and real estate moguls..... just about all of whom are conservative

------------------
One Hundred.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Tue May-05-15 07:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "Actually, liberal policies succeeded in what they were intended to do."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-05-15 07:50 PM by Shaun Tha Don

          

Turn Blacks into a permanent underclass voting bloc dependent on the (usually left-wing) government for their survival. In essence, Blacks have voted themselves back into slavery.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22257 posts
Tue May-05-15 08:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "Cole, you stupid."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #12796665 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com