"Poll question: failing public school vs average private school"
in this scenario, moving to a neighborhood with better schools is NOT an option.
the schools where you kid is zoned for are all failing. the elementary, the middle, AND the high school. and you're gonna be in that house as long as your kid is in school. again, moving is not an option.
let's say you have $600 a month in disposable income. now when i say disposable, i'm saying the bills are paid and you've saved a little and that's what you have left.
would you send your kid to the failing local schools and use that money on tutoring and extracurricular activities...
or
do you use that money to send your kid to an average private school? now, the private school is average because the great ones are out of your price range. and scholarships probably won't happen so that's not an option in this scenario.
if you need background on the kid, let's assume the kid is like 3 years old when you're consider this. and the kid seems to have above average intelligence. they're no genius but you know dumb little kids when you see them and this doesn't apply to your kid.
with these parameters, which would you pick & why?
Poll result (17 votes)
send the kid to public school & use that money for extracurriculars
1. "I need to know more about the public school" In response to Reply # 0
Is crime/safety an issue? Do they offer all the classes the kid needs? Are there enough books? Are the teachers still trying?
A motvivated, involved parent can work wonders with a "bad school" if the school has good bones. Some schools are "bad" because the parent population is poor, uneducated, and uninvolved and the kids suffer. Some schools suck because they're just shitty.
4. "more background on the public:" In response to Reply # 1
>Is crime/safety an issue?
not much of an issue. weaker kids get beat up but there are no weapons or outsiders harming the kids
>Do they offer all the classes the kid needs?
the "smart" kids have the same set of classes which are pretty good while the rest of the school struggles to teach the kids enough to pass the standardized state tests
>Are there enough books?
nope
>Are the teachers still trying?
at least half are just going through the motions. showing up to get a check... > > >A motvivated, involved parent can work wonders with a "bad >school" if the school has good bones. Some schools are "bad" >because the parent population is poor, uneducated, and >uninvolved and the kids suffer. Some schools suck because >they're just shitty.
in these schools, parental involvement is nearly non-existent. PTA meetings get low turn out and fundraisers aren't supported.
the parents of these kids are struggling so much trying to make it as adults that they don't have time to be parents.
2. "I am not a parent, but if I were in this situation I'd do public first a..." In response to Reply # 0 Tue Apr-21-15 09:36 AM by SuiteLady
try to work towards affording private school before they complete elementary. I think if they get to the private school in 4th or 5th grade and are behind, it will be easier to catch up than it would be in middle or high school. But like I said, I am not a parent.
♥ Inescapably Me ♥
"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)
3. "Private school no question" In response to Reply # 0
I grew up in similar circumstances. Schools in our neighborhood were AWFUL...but my parents found a way for me and my siblings to go to some of the best private schools in the area for years (biased, but mine was the best of the three - lol). If you're talking elementary, that's the foundation for the rest of their academic study. It put me miles ahead of my peers both in the neighborhood and when I got to college. Worth every penny.
14. "Yeah. I placed out of English because of AP credits." In response to Reply # 12 Tue Apr-21-15 02:49 PM by Overqualified
Really, college was a breeze save for math based courses (I was terrible at math. *shrug*). Putting together a concise paper, researching, properly annotating, really critical thinking, knowing how to prepare for an exam...it was all stuff I had been doing since seventh grade.
7. "we went through this with my first kid and currently going through" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Apr-21-15 11:36 AM by jimi
it with my 2nd kid.. Not that the public schools around the way changed or anything, it's still shitty but a lot of new charter schools have popped up so now it's more of a "do we revisit PS and try one of these new charter schools with him" or "just take the discount that this private school is offering for a sibling and keep it moving" type of decision...
And it's looking more like latter.. this particular private school doesn't offer preschool so we might have to do the "Public School for preschool" thing like we did with our first kid and move him over to private for kindergarten
9. "from a financial standpoint it's wiser to spend the $ on extras" In response to Reply # 0
The knock against public schools is overblown. The household a child comes from is the SINGLE greatest indicator of academic success $600.00 x 12 x 18 + compound interests is QUITE a college fund. Get your kid tutors, extra-curriculars and get ready to knock out some of that college debt.
blkprinceMD05 Member since Nov 29th 2004 41323 posts
Wed Apr-22-15 08:56 AM
18. "thank you thank you thank you! i hate the way ppl blanketly" In response to Reply # 9
shit on public schools, pringe georges county public schools were the second worst in maryland behind bmore city for my whole k-12 experience and i not only got into one of the best schools in the country (still to this day its one of em, wash u in stl) but received a lot of interest from several ivies. iad a great SAT score and several AP credits that counted towards my bachelors. I wasnt alone, over half of my graduating class (near 1000) went onto higher education in some form, a good 10 percent of us going to really good schools
if as a parent u care and can MAKE time to be active in ur kids life, they will succeed.
prototype
stand ur ground, believe in urself, believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve
22. "i am a public school believer but i'd choose private here." In response to Reply # 9
i know ppl who graduated from failed public schools and went on to college. they all struggled mightily. and most of them attended low tier colleges and STILL struggled. one of them was the valedictorian at her failed high school. i have seen her writing - it made me weep for her and that school.
i don't shit on public school generally but i'm not about to send my kid to a failing system just to make some point. not when i have the option to send them to a better school - even if it's only marginally better. if i can afford that private school w/o hurting my budget then that's the option i'd choose.
all things being equal though i'd choose public school.
38. "i would send mine to an avg private if the local public" In response to Reply # 37
is failing and moving to another district is not an option, plus i can easily afford the private school costs.
avg private meaning it's not exceptional among other schools, public or private.
if the private and public schools are both average then i'd send mine to the public school. if the public school is average and the private school is exceptional i'd still choose the public school.
40. "an average private school often has services that public schools don't " In response to Reply # 37 Wed Apr-22-15 11:37 AM by samsara
the OP says the kid is above intelligence but you never know what services your child might need no matter how intelligent they are
public school parents sue all the time to get the city to pay for going to an average private school that's willing to provide services that public schools refuse to do even though they are legally required
(i'm not pro-private school at all)
"i fear no fate" e.e. cummings "No girl. No fried chicken. I'm going back to get some sleep." - Haruki Murakami
25. "public school reform needs to mean mostly societal reform" In response to Reply # 17
the status of institutions such as public schools, county hospitals is a gauge of the value system of the larger society. public school "reform" has been co-opted by market/$$$-driven groups, but thankfully school communities along with normally passive educators have finally begun to push back.
21. "depends on a lot of things" In response to Reply # 0 Wed Apr-22-15 09:09 AM by ndibs
like the social environment at hte public. i was at dinner last night and a teacher friend was talking about kids from north omaha who were bussed in were brining in bad habits to the high school. I'm like what kinda habits. She's like gang activity. I'm like that's more than a bad habit.
public schools are often failing cause the parents are hoodlums with llittle hoodlum kids and they're not reading to their kids or helping with homework. Not because the teachers suck and everyone who gives a fuck is sending their kids to the local private school and it's just the left behind kids at the public. Then people who are paying $big money for private school also vote to underfund the public school system.
In other words, you can mitigate the less than ideal education your kid may gets at school by reading to them and being involved, but you need to strongly consider the social environment you're putting your child in.
(fuck all these typos, I haven't had coffee yet and am bleary-eyed)
I've walked out after a LONG day at one of the WORST schools in the area and had to help calm a parent down, who had been chillin in front of the school for an hour demanding that the principle "come catch the fade", cause his son (3rd grader) was finally suspended after spitting on a teacher.
Dad was claiming the principle was singling his son out 'cause the whole class was bad. He knew it was bad cause his son told him.
I had pulled his son to the side earlier, walking to the teacher's lounge, as the boy was talkin' 'bout "bitch nigga do you want me to fuck you up" to another 3rd grader
I've had a mom call me in the morning before class as say "Mr____, please don't contact me anymore about my daughter. I've given up on her. She's beyond help." The girl was 13
I mean, I could go on and on, but why? Yes SOME parent needs to do better, but ultimately it's a societal issue
28. "that's what i said." In response to Reply # 26 Wed Apr-22-15 10:48 AM by ndibs
you can read to your kid and work with them and they can get a good education at a FAILING public school.
but, that doesn't mean they're not going to pick up bad "habits" like gang activity or even just poor subject verb agreement going to public schools.
i have the same mother as my sister but went to private schools and well funded "white" public schools. she went to public in the bronx. she struggles with basic english. math she does well in. but because she's been immersed in a culture where people don't speak proper english non stop, english is a tricky subject for her.
29. "all of this can and does happen at some private schools too." In response to Reply # 28 Wed Apr-22-15 10:41 AM by SoWhat
>but, that doesn't mean they're not going to pick up bad >"habits" like gang activity or even just poor subject verb >conjugation going to public schools.
and, of course, there are plenty public schools where kids don't have these ^ experiences.
no need to paint public/private w/such a wide, lazy brush.
34. "maybe you're aware the metrics for what a "failing" public " In response to Reply # 31 Wed Apr-22-15 11:08 AM by rawsouthpaw
school supposedly is are highly contested. is it a "failing" community? why is that? what kind of parent groups, parent school governance rates, civic partnerships, community orgs, restorative justice discipline policies, school clubs for example are factored/counted into this perception? test scores often lead but are an incomplete representation or misrepresent what makes for a quality school. as a public school teacher i can appreciate how tough these kinds of decisions are however.
56. "all that's irrelevant..." In response to Reply # 34 Wed Apr-22-15 02:13 PM by ndibs
the reason why the school is failing really doesn't matter. we could debate the causes and reasons and root of this and all of society's problem all day. if the social enviromnent is shitty, your child is probably going to learn a whole lot of things at school, you don't want them to.
57. "it's irrelevant if you're resigned to conditions/disengaged" In response to Reply # 56
as a teacher at that school, a potential parent, a student etc. what is the direction of the school for example? are things moving in the right direction based on the info/data? 3 years ago for example it was almost daily fights at this new school here in south central. i came in in year two and with others advocating in various ways as fellow teacher and in tandem with our community partners and students beginning to step up with overall culture (and resourcing shifts such as new intervention staff and programs) we are without a doubt on the upswing based on both wider perception and hard data. this whole question requires both long and short views based on numerous variables.
58. "it's irrelevant to the QUESTION." In response to Reply # 57
this is like asking should you leave your kid with a convicted child abuser rapist and being like well they were probaby abused as well as neglectedas a child so they learned that from their parents and caretakers. so they had a rough life. So they should not be blamed for what they did. And we should work to rehab them. They could possibly be rehabbed in the future.
That's all well and great to discuss the why and how and the possible future. But nothing you're talking about is relevent to the question, should you leave your kid with this person. Most parents aren't going to be able ti quit their job and make improving the school their life mission.
59. "umm i don't think a convicted child abuser analogy" In response to Reply # 58 Wed Apr-22-15 05:47 PM by rawsouthpaw
is useful or relevant here haha... im thinking not thinking of the school as a potentially criminal person, sorry. it could however be an poorly functioning, unhealthy community. we're talking about a public service organization, which has a lot of eyes on it rating it, evaluating it, relationships with other orgs, an internal culture and governance that can be researched etc etc. we're also talking about stakeholders and their willingness to serve on school bodies, be volunteer/presence, etc . schools classified as low income or "title 1" schools may receive a higher proportion of public monies to better serve their school families - so as an engaged parent you go to the school site council meetings and help decide how the monies will be invested to help push the school forward as a democratic entity responsive to the needs you advocate, to take one example of a once a month commitment we in the public schools really need from parents to be heard. sadly parents very often just do not show up to help, especially in high poverty areas.
36. "if possible id inquire/research both schools about" In response to Reply # 0 Wed Apr-22-15 11:37 AM by rawsouthpaw
average class sizes counselor-student ratio admin and teacher morale/turnover press campus culture - clubs, outlook on discipline polices, culture of achievement/recognition/exhibition, traditions holistic education - arts offerings/student elective choices respective school missions/curricular focus commitment to equity/inclusion? policies and interventions for spec ed, language learners, demographics - staff and students' class, race, immigrant community partners in arts, civic and professional arenas
no kids of my own but have taught thousands in nearly 10 years with art in LA! also a union rep. we're looking at making art in response to the LA riots this week
41. "id consider one-year with 600 a month of heavy enrichment" In response to Reply # 39 Wed Apr-22-15 11:43 AM by rawsouthpaw
and re-assess, if this were me. id probably be open to pulling my kid for an actual high quality private school at the semester if it was worst case kind of thing. it helps me roll with this scenario being that i'm already a teacher though.
47. "im not a parent so i dont know about time management" In response to Reply # 45 Wed Apr-22-15 12:04 PM by rawsouthpaw
and parenting. but finding ways to prodcutively spend the money wouldn't be hard (im also an artist and freelance photographer) and setting a up a home workspace/studio would be easy as it would be an extension of what i already do (that is if my kid was also all about the arts). it doesn't have to be completely outside the home. plus i live in central LA where there's an endless amount of workshops, classes, etc and public transit. but all thats kinda why i said id give it a year.
48. "I have a pre-schooler (4 years old)" In response to Reply # 47 Wed Apr-22-15 12:08 PM by John Forte
She does:
Gymnastics Soccer Ballet Korean class
With all that shit, we don't spend anywhere near 600/mo on enrichment, but we also can't add anything else. It's a fucking trial to get her to all these things, cook dinner, take care of the baby and maintain the house... and that's with a bi-weekly cleaning lady.
teachers and schools are lucky to have parents like yall. when you have a chance/time down the road consider getting elected to the school's governing board/school site council, etc. its a huge way to make an impact from the inside as you may already know.
54. "and not only that - in this OP - you'd likely be "homeschooling"" In response to Reply # 48
on top of all that to make up for whatever gaps your child is missing especially if you are in a school teaching to the average and you have an above average intelligent child (whatever that means to the OP)
"i fear no fate" e.e. cummings "No girl. No fried chicken. I'm going back to get some sleep." - Haruki Murakami
53. "i believe it. if no extended fam is nearby too? damn." In response to Reply # 52
and our school in south central isn't yet resourced to provide rich after school programming like some sites can and do. so kids are pushed off the school well before 4 due to lack of supervision and activities. that is unless they do stuff like take advantage of the brazilian martial arts (capoeria) club i take too and help run with outside instructors, or the photo program with a community arts partner i brought in, to take the 2 examples i've made possible for our school's families.
46. "times have changed - "failing" public schools" In response to Reply # 0
are now schools that might not even be around for your child to graduate in many cities
where a public school district - depending on the policy - may be actively trying to take away resources, space rather than help the school which is a terrible situation to be in for everyone: children, parents, teachers, administration they are no longer just the "bad" school in an area
i wouldn't choose that for any child
"i fear no fate" e.e. cummings "No girl. No fried chicken. I'm going back to get some sleep." - Haruki Murakami
49. "also parents - pressure schools to use online grading" In response to Reply # 0
services, such as an internal district system, or external such as engrade. im a teacher and it helps keep me on my toes, and empowers students and families with info on performance. it is a huge development. not to diss non-tech, analog teachers BUT grading needs to be transparent as possible. schools need to have the capacity to do this in my view.
60. "tempted to say half public half private" In response to Reply # 0
as suggested above, but this
>if you need background on the kid, let's assume the kid is >like 3 years old when you're consider this. and the kid seems >to have above average intelligence. they're no genius but you >know dumb little kids when you see them and this doesn't apply >to your kid.
adult experience tells us those "do not apply themselves" C students with passion for a certain subject who bust out the perfect test/SAT scores no matter the school will MAKE IT on some Neil dG T
tough call…
plus those failing schools can get turned around when certain parents move into the neighborhood…
also know former NY parents who moved to CT for schools zero percent black students, kids excel and current NY parents with kids in charter/nonprofit based schools zero percent white students, single gender even, kids excel
64. "the value US culture places on education is a fucking joke" In response to Reply # 62
and is reflected in things like funding formulas for public schools being based/supported in large part on local property values, often little conscience/respect on how teachers are treated by students, or by society in the form of much lower pay then the amount of education and responsibility deserves, lack of parent and community help, undermining of it by market-based entities, overtesting (not for private students though) etc etc
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