http://pigeonsandplanes.com/2015/04/listen-to-kendrick-lamars-full-verse-on-kanye-wests-all-day/

else write a rhyme for you shoutin out your city?

Feels so wrong.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

talking about playing w/his coochie.

he wrote that rhyme for Kim. and recorded a guide vocal for her to use as a reference.

no, it doesn't seem wrong. i mean it's funny ha-ha in a middle school sense to hear him rap those lines. b/c he says coochie. and he's a guy. and so he doesn't have a coochie. ha-ha. and now i want to go pop a pimple or count my pubic hair to see if i have any new ones since the last time i counted. b/c i'm right back in 7th grade.

fuck you.

Darkchild-produced records like "It's Not Write, But It's Okay", "Say My Name", and "He Wasn't Man Enough".

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

we can't even recognize or accept fiction. we can't accept that we commonly hear ppl recite words written by others.

fuck you.

no respectable MC requests a reference track from another MC
fuck outta here

grow up.

fuck you.

you mad, bro. dunno why. good luck w/it though.

fuck you.

you got clowned.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

But almost always the rapper had claimed they wrote the rhyme at issue.

fuck you.

for a singer with a better voice but rapping?

What's the value of a rapper who can't write his own raps?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

i enjoyed listening to it.

knowing that Kanye didn't write the words he rapped has no bearing on my listening experience.

i dig many of Dr. Dre's raps though i know he didn't write them.

i learned that LL wrote all or part of Lyte's verse on 'Self Destruction' but i still rap along w/her when i hear the record. i still enjoy hearing it.

i can go on and on.

fuck you.

He never claims to be the Greatest Rapper Alive. Or even a great rapper.

I think it's hard to claim to be a great rapper if someone else is writing for you.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

fuck you.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

fuck you.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

http://www.letrasdemusicas.fm/dr-dre/nuthin-but-a-g-thang#with-a-producer-who-can-rap-and-control-the-maestro

Well I'm peepin', and I'm creepin', and I'm creep-in'.
But I damn near got capped, 'cause my beeper kept beepin'.
Now it's time for me to make my impression felt,
So sit back, relax, and strap on your seatbelt.

You never been on a ride like this before,
With a producer who can rap and control the maestro
At the same time with the dope rhyme that I kick.
You know, and I know, I flow some old funky shit

To add to my collection. The selection
Symbolizes dope. Take a toke but don't choke.
If you do, you have no clue
Of what me and my homie Snoop Dogg came to do...

fuck you.

Dude was rapping the hell out of D.O.C's lyrics.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

fuck you.

I think the brag is that he is a producer who also raps (which use to be a big deal) but I don't hear a claim that he is a great rapper.

If I was splittin hairs I would point out that he even separates the rhymes from the rhymer in the last couple of lines.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

Unlike Kanye Dr. Dre has never proclaimed himself to be a God MC or competative MC outside of whats said on actual records and even that's very mimimal.

Also, its understood that Dr. Dre has played a part in molding many MC's vocal approach, cadence, etc. That has been happening forever even amongst the most respected MC's and is considered co-writing or co-producing. We know Snoop sounds the way he does on Doggystyle, partly because of Dre and that is accepted.

There are also cases were out right co-writing happens and that's fair as well. ie. if Kanye had a verse and brought Kendrick in for input or reshaping of the verse.

But once a refrence track is used, notwithstanding the actual words, you taking the man's flow, vocal approach, everything into account for your own verse.

Give me a Kendrick reference track and I might not use a word of his but still come with a sick verse.

No competitive MC should be using reference tracks.

MC'ing is not like singing even tho some of yall would like it to be.
Do professional rapping coaches out exist?

=======================================
Coolin...

A rapper who does not write his own rhymes may not be a skilled MC in hip-hop culture tradition, but, on the other hand, they could just be a person who cannot write rhymes worth of use on commercial singles.

Hit songwriting (it's still songwriting, after all) is a skill onto itself.

>for a singer with a better voice but rapping?
>
>What's the value of a rapper who can't write his own raps?



HELLA ppl complain about Lupe and his "kid voice" though I don't have issue with it.
I do feel like Drake should be a ghost-writer tho. "Worst Behavior" for instance would
have been a great Rick Ross song. Any of the songs where he sings would be great
with an actual singer singing them. See: Weeknd's version of "Trust Issues", for instance.

In a nutshell, some people just have the mic presence and personality whereas some
just write good lyrics. Imagine Busta Rhymes or Method Man spitting Fabolous' lyrics.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

Some of them may not have a marketable look.

Others may indeed have a marketable look and can sing just fine; they just want to be songwriters (even on the side of a regular music career) for the money (Smokey Robinson, Curtis Mayfield, Babyface, etc.)

Or you just wrote something dope and realized it's not for you and know who it would be perfect for

A great imagination can write for others as well

There are several skills here that people are under valuing for this 'real' thing
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Jermaine Dupri wrote every word on "Totally Krossed Out", and quite a few of the words on Bow Wow's and Da Brat's records. And gets full production and publishing credits for such.

nerd.

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

...

in a two man cell (a two man cell)

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

i mean, he did just write a song (King Kunta) critiquing rappers with ghostwriters, yet he's ghostwriting.

hmmm. this is one of those hate the player or hate the game moments.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

fuck you.

co-writing and reference tracks are two different things

the 'ghost' part in the term refers to the hidden nature of the writing and the actual writer. if there's no hiding then there's no ghostwriting going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter

fuck you.

the process is the problem... once a reference track is involved ur assimilating the man's cadence, vocal inflection, words, conceptual approach and everything else without even being in the same room with that man. That's not hiphop. That's why people like Dre and Diddy will never make top 10 MC lists no matter how well they spit something.

it might mean these MC's aren't in some ppl's top 5.

so?

are the records hot?

fuck you.

>it might mean these MC's aren't in some ppl's top 5.
>
>so?
>
>are the records hot?
>

b/c as a listener that's what concerns me the most. the records. how they sound.

all the stuff that goes into making the record is good to and can provide some context for discussion. but that's all that is. when i actually listen to the record i don't like what i hear more or less b/c of some fact about how the record was made.

i like plenty records that feature rappers, singers and instrumentalists who didn't write the music they play, sang or rapped. 'All Day' is just another in a long line for me. it's not a big deal in my world whatsoever.

fuck you.

we're not discussing your cornball personal preferences

fuck you.

it's fine though. you'll be alright.

and you can have the last one in this exchange.

vvvvv

fuck you.

Niggas don't even know what ghostwriting is anymore.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>Niggas don't even know what ghostwriting is anymore.

do niggas know what plea copping is?

>do niggas know what plea copping is?

plea copping is what you're doing now since you're wrong

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

fuck you.

now if Kendrick has ghostwriters or uses writers for his own material...

FWIW, i don't have ANY issue with ghostwriting. i just wanna hear hot songs, period.

i realize the term ghostwriting came about when cats started getting bars from other rappers and those rappers were uncredited so they remained "ghosts" and there were always rumors about who really penned those bars.

HOWEVER, for my money these days ghostwriting * IS * any rapper who isn't you who writes your verse, whether credited or uncredited. the only reason rappers are getting credits for verses they've written for other people is because it's become a normal thing now so it's okay to credit them AND because the original writers realized they were losing too much money so if you're gonna get bars from me you're gonna give me my credit so that i can make my money (it's just too much potential publishing dollars to pass up on in this day and age) since i'm not gonna get actual publicity from the song that i can capitalize off of.

so yeah, Kendrick is ghostwriting...and that's okay with me. at least he's a quality rapper giving people good bars. it could be worse, Plies could be out here flourishing under his government name in people's liner notes.

>HOWEVER, for my money these days ghostwriting * IS * any
>rapper who isn't you who writes your verse, whether credited
>or uncredited.

cool. but that's not what 'ghostwriting' means to the world at large.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter

the only reason rappers are getting credits for
>verses they've written for other people is because it's become
>a normal thing now so it's okay to credit them AND because the
>original writers realized they were losing too much money so
>if you're gonna get bars from me you're gonna give me my
>credit so that i can make my money (it's just too much
>potential publishing dollars to pass up on in this day and
>age) since i'm not gonna get actual publicity from the song
>that i can capitalize off of.

i think it's more the latter as opposed to the former. rappers have been using rhymes written by others since rapping began. there's nothing new about that practice. and i agree that we see more proper crediting b/c the rappers and their record labels understand that plenty consumers will buy records even if it's known that the rapper didn't write all of his/her rhymes. and the writers are probably demanding proper credit b/c they want that $ and respect for their craft.

fuck you.

became popular and pejorative.

i realize it's commonplace in other genres for writers to write for singers, and it's been that way for decades and decades.

anyways, as i said, for my money Kendrick is a ghostwriter since the label and Kanye are trying to sell those rhyme's as Kanye's own words despite KL's name being in the writer's credits. he's listed, sure, but it's only because he has to be. people ain't REALLY supposed to know Kanye didn't write that.

>became popular and pejorative.
>
>i realize it's commonplace in other genres for writers to
>write for singers, and it's been that way for decades and
>decades.

yes but that's only ghostwriting if the actual songwriter's credit is hidden.

like Prince ghostwrote for several artists in the 80s - including The Time. usually the credits for his work went to the singer or band leader or some random band member. sometimes Prince used pseudonyms to hide his involvement on a record. all of that is ghostwriting.

Motown acts in the 60s almost never wrote their own songs. the actual songwriters were always credited though. there was no ghostwriting there.

>anyways, as i said, for my money Kendrick is a ghostwriter
>since the label and Kanye are trying to sell those rhyme's as
>Kanye's own words despite KL's name being in the writer's
>credits.

Kendrick's name being in the credits means Kanye and the label are not trying to sell those rhymes as Kanye's.

see also: http://www.mtv.com/news/2094846/kanye-west-all-day-writing-production-credits/

^ if Kanye and the label were trying to sell that record as if Kanye wrote it i doubt that MTV.com posting would've happened. or any of these articles:

https://www.google.com/search?q=kanye+all+day+writing+credit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

he's listed, sure, but it's only because he has to
>be. people ain't REALLY supposed to know Kanye didn't write
>that.

if that were the case then Kanye and/or the label would've insisted that Kendrick's name not appear in the credits and they'd have made Kendrick sign a non-disclosure agreement, probably. i doubt any of that happened since Kendrick is credited as a writer on 'All Day' - along w/several others.

fuck you.

my point is just because the information is available doesn't mean they (the "writee" and the label) want you to KNOW it.

nowadays, they just CAN'T hide it for various reasons, but if they could they would.

i mean, who says the label and Kanye don't want the world to know that Kendrick and several others were involved in the creation of 'All Day'?

fuck you.

Trust he is not happy with that being known.

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Why did Kanye not deny the stories about him flying crews of collaborators to Paris and Hawaii to work on his 2 most recent albums? And when was the last time he rapped about not having help with his rhymes?

fuck you.

actually read writing credits like we used to do (and even that practice in my experience was always limited to a small segment of the genre's fans as a whole).

>Why did Kanye not deny the stories about him flying crews of
>collaborators to Paris and Hawaii to work on his 2 most recent
>albums?
Those people were mostly legendary producers like Pete Rock, Tip & RZA or people who had feature verses on the album.

A lot of that was actually advertised because it was some goodwill Kanye was engendering amongst critical tastemakers and an earlier contingent of beatmakers during that period.

There was no guide vocal tracks of *insert biggest MC comp here at the time* actually doing his song from those sessions that was released to the public nor would Kanye (who has been heavily invested in his own myth making aiming to be considered one of the genre's best) have wanted them to be.

I ain't saying that this is some insurmountable crises but best believe if he had his choice of this being out and talked about or not known at all he's taking the latter w/no hesitation.

>And when was the last time he rapped about not having
>help with his rhymes?
>

I mean he's always politicking for a place on MC lists whether it be MTV or elsewhere but here's a few examples from his own work:

"I don't need writers, I might bounce ideas
But only I could come up with some shit like this"

"Top 5 MCs, you ain't gotta remind me
Top 5 MCs: you gotta rewind me"

"Does he write his own rhymes, well sort of, I think 'em
That mean I forgot better shit than you ever thought of"

"Takin' my hits, writing my hits
Writin' my rhymes, playin' my mind"

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

>actually read writing credits like we used to do (and even
>that practice in my experience was always limited to a small
>segment of the genre's fans as a whole).

1. that doesn't answer the question as to why Def Jam would release the writing and production credits showing 21 ppl participated in the creation of 'All Day' if Def Jam and Kanye want the world to believe Kanye wrote the song on his own.

2. further, since most fans and consumers don't read liner notes b/c they don't buy physical copies it should be easier today for labels and artists to 'get away' w/ghostwriting.

3. the fact that most fans and consumers didn't read liner notes and check credits even back when most ppl bought physical copies of records probably helps explain why some ppl mistakenly thought certain records were ghostwritten though the actual writers of the rhymes in question were properly credited (which means technically there was no ghostwriting). it could be that this phenomenon which you and others attribute to some unique characteristic of HH is rooted in consumers' failure to read liner notes and credits.

>>Why did Kanye not deny the stories about him flying crews of
>>collaborators to Paris and Hawaii to work on his 2 most
>recent
>>albums?
>Those people were mostly legendary producers like Pete Rock,
>Tip & RZA or people who had feature verses on the album.

some were, yes. others weren't.

>A lot of that was actually advertised because it was some
>goodwill Kanye was engendering amongst critical tastemakers
>and an earlier contingent of beatmakers during that period.

i agree. i think the same thing is going on w/the 'All Day' credits. i think it all adds up to mean that Kanye and Def Jam don't mind if the world knows that Kanye's records are collaborative efforts. i think it supports the notion that there's no ghostwriting happening on Kanye's recent records b/c the fact that others help him create his music is publicly acknowledged by Kanye and his label.

>There was no guide vocal tracks of *insert biggest MC comp
>here at the time* actually doing his song from those sessions
>that was released to the public nor would Kanye (who has been
>heavily invested in his own myth making aiming to be
>considered one of the genre's best) have wanted them to be.

i agree.

>I ain't saying that this is some insurmountable crises but
>best believe if he had his choice of this being out and talked
>about or not known at all he's taking the latter w/no
>hesitation.

he may prefer that we not have heard the reference track. but i don't think he has a problem w/us knowing that Kendrick was involved in writing the lyrics to 'All Day'. b/c if he had a problem w/that i doubt he'd have allowed Def Jam to release the writing credits so publicly. and/or he'd have insisted that Kendrick's work on the song not be credited - as is done in a ghostwriting situation.

>>And when was the last time he rapped about not having
>>help with his rhymes?
>>
>
>I mean he's always politicking for a place on MC lists whether
>it be MTV or elsewhere but here's a few examples from his own
>work:

>"I don't need writers, I might bounce ideas
>But only I could come up with some shit like this"
>
>"Top 5 MCs, you ain't gotta remind me
>Top 5 MCs: you gotta rewind me"
>
>"Does he write his own rhymes, well sort of, I think 'em
>That mean I forgot better shit than you ever thought of"
>
>"Takin' my hits, writing my hits
>Writin' my rhymes, playin' my mind"

that doesn't answer my question.

when is the last time he rapped about not having help w/his rhymes?

fuck you.

>>actually read writing credits like we used to do (and even
>>that practice in my experience was always limited to a small
>>segment of the genre's fans as a whole).
>
>1. that doesn't answer the question as to why Def Jam would
>release the writing and production credits showing 21 ppl
>participated in the creation of 'All Day' if Def Jam and Kanye
>want the world to believe Kanye wrote the song on his own.
>
they don't really have a choice there.

>2. further, since most fans and consumers don't read liner
>notes b/c they don't buy physical copies it should be easier
>today for labels and artists to 'get away' w/ghostwriting.
>
um....it is.

>3. the fact that most fans and consumers didn't read liner
>notes and check credits even back when most ppl bought
>physical copies of records probably helps explain why some ppl
>mistakenly thought certain records were ghostwritten though
>the actual writers of the rhymes in question were properly
>credited (which means technically there was no ghostwriting).
>it could be that this phenomenon which you and others
>attribute to some unique characteristic of HH is rooted in
>consumers' failure to read liner notes and credits.
>
I'm not getting into this semantical argument you guys are having about ghostwriting/songwriting/etc.

My only point was in response to whether Kanye would want guide vocals of Kendrick rapping his lines out there or whether Kanye has himself painted the picture at times that he writes his rhymes.

The answers are a pretty easy 'no' and 'yes' there respectively.

>>>Why did Kanye not deny the stories about him flying crews
>of
>>>collaborators to Paris and Hawaii to work on his 2 most
>>recent
>>>albums?
>>Those people were mostly legendary producers like Pete Rock,
>>Tip & RZA or people who had feature verses on the album.
>
>some were, yes. others weren't.
>
>>A lot of that was actually advertised because it was some
>>goodwill Kanye was engendering amongst critical tastemakers
>>and an earlier contingent of beatmakers during that period.
>
>i agree. i think the same thing is going on w/the 'All Day'
>credits. i think it all adds up to mean that Kanye and Def
>Jam don't mind if the world knows that Kanye's records are
>collaborative efforts. i think it supports the notion that
>there's no ghostwriting happening on Kanye's recent records
>b/c the fact that others help him create his music is publicly
>acknowledged by Kanye and his label.
>
>>There was no guide vocal tracks of *insert biggest MC comp
>>here at the time* actually doing his song from those
>sessions
>>that was released to the public nor would Kanye (who has
>been
>>heavily invested in his own myth making aiming to be
>>considered one of the genre's best) have wanted them to be.
>
>i agree.
>
>>I ain't saying that this is some insurmountable crises but
>>best believe if he had his choice of this being out and
>talked
>>about or not known at all he's taking the latter w/no
>>hesitation.
>
>he may prefer that we not have heard the reference track. but
>i don't think he has a problem w/us knowing that Kendrick was
>involved in writing the lyrics to 'All Day'. b/c if he had a
>problem w/that i doubt he'd have allowed Def Jam to release
>the writing credits so publicly. and/or he'd have insisted
>that Kendrick's work on the song not be credited - as is done
>in a ghostwriting situation.
>
I think the Kendrick part is sorta up to Kendrick, no?

But again, I'm not getting into the 'ghostwriting' aspect, if you agree he'd rather have this audio not released then we're pretty much in agreement.

>>>And when was the last time he rapped about not having
>>>help with his rhymes?
>>>
>>
>>I mean he's always politicking for a place on MC lists
>whether
>>it be MTV or elsewhere but here's a few examples from his
>own
>>work:
>
>>"I don't need writers, I might bounce ideas
>>But only I could come up with some shit like this"
>>
>>"Top 5 MCs, you ain't gotta remind me
>>Top 5 MCs: you gotta rewind me"
>>
>>"Does he write his own rhymes, well sort of, I think 'em
>>That mean I forgot better shit than you ever thought of"
>>
>>"Takin' my hits, writing my hits
>>Writin' my rhymes, playin' my mind"
>
>that doesn't answer my question.
>
>when is the last time he rapped about not having help w/his
>rhymes?

Not really sure when the last time was because despite taking note of a few lines he had on the subject I don't study Kanye closely enough to name a time/date definitively.

I've also become probably less not more familiar with specifics on the material post-Graduation (which is probably the album I know best, College Dropout second).

My point was that he's been having people write rhymes for him since the beginning (mostly 'Fest & Cons early) but has still oddly felt the need to point out he doesn't have people write his rhymes in subsequent works.....which leads me to believe the perception of his pen game is something that matters to him.

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>>1. that doesn't answer the question as to why Def Jam would
>>release the writing and production credits showing 21 ppl
>>participated in the creation of 'All Day' if Def Jam and
>Kanye
>>want the world to believe Kanye wrote the song on his own.
>>
>they don't really have a choice there.

Def Jam didn't have to release the credit info BEFORE the record was released. a choice was made there. that choice doesn't make sense if the label and Kanye want the world to think Kanye wrote those lyrics on his own.

>>2. further, since most fans and consumers don't read liner
>>notes b/c they don't buy physical copies it should be easier
>>today for labels and artists to 'get away' w/ghostwriting.
>>
>um....it is.

so, since Def Jam and Kanye could've easily gotten away w/o confirming that Kendrick wrote any part of 'All Day' if that's what they wanted, i believe they want the world to know Kendrick played some part in writing the song. still, i suspect the label and Kanye would've preferred if the reference track hadn't been leaked.

>I'm not getting into this semantical argument you guys are
>having about ghostwriting/songwriting/etc.

lol

>My only point was in response to whether Kanye would want
>guide vocals of Kendrick rapping his lines out there or
>whether Kanye has himself painted the picture at times that he
>writes his rhymes.
>
>The answers are a pretty easy 'no' and 'yes' there
>respectively.

the goalposts shifted a bit there. but yes, i agree w/that.

>My point was that he's been having people write rhymes for him
>since the beginning (mostly 'Fest & Cons early) but has still
>oddly felt the need to point out he doesn't have people write
>his rhymes in subsequent works.....which leads me to believe
>the perception of his pen game is something that matters to
>him.

i think that USED TO BE true for him. but he's changed. b/c the Kanye you described wouldn't have allowed his record label to release info confirming other ppl wrote rhymes for him BEFORE the record at issue had even been released. also that Kanye still wanted the world to think he made his beats alone in his basement - spending hours upon hours working at them. that Kanye wouldn't have wanted the world to know that collaborators joined in him in the studio. the current Kanye is different in those regards.

fuck you.