2. "The counter argument is everyone spies on everyone. We do it to our alli..." In response to Reply # 0 Tue Mar-24-15 08:34 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos
This would be the key difference.
“It is one thing for the U.S. and Israel to spy on each other. It is another thing for Israel to steal U.S. secrets and play them back to U.S. legislators to undermine U.S. diplomacy,” a senior U.S. official told the Journal.
========================================= I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and not having much to show for it. (c) mad
blkprinceMD05 Member since Nov 29th 2004 41323 posts
Tue Mar-24-15 08:51 AM
5. "call me what u will but i dont get conservative christian support" In response to Reply # 0
for isreal, im assuming its some kinda conservative cross section where its seen as politically right on the spectrum to support isreal and as fuck u to Obama since him and Bibi are at odds but i feel like the same folks that make up the conservative christian right were the same folks wearing white hoods saying kill all Jews and Blacks.
like Jews dont believe Christ is the savior so i dont get how ted cruz goes to liberty christian university and says support isreal and gets the loudest applause for that comment.
prototype
stand ur ground, believe in urself, believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve
17. "sounds good but nah" In response to Reply # 11
it's more money and natural resources EVERYWHERE but Israel...
the conflict alone makes us military money regardless of which side we pick...in fact it would benefit us far more to be neutral and sell to both sides equally...
we don't for a reason
i'm not going to pretend i fully understand that reason bc i don't remotely...
but it's pretty clear it's more complicated than that bc their is more money to be made taking a different diplomatic stance
Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble
u think Israel is the gateway to those other natural resources? it's not...
and like i said...we'd fare far better in a military industrial way by remaining neutral...
we'd have 2 sides to sell our shit to and 2 very willing customers
aka do what we usually do and we'd profit more but we aren't doing that...
we switch sides so often friends become enemies...but we've remained bend over backwards loyal to Israel despite having more to gain from playing both sides
but feel free to dispute that with reasons other than me missing a point u clearly didn't articulate
or u can do like u always do and bow out of any intellectual discourse by saying that you don't have to
and you're right...u are not obligated to make sense nor bow out when armed with nothing but empty words and dry parroted rhetoric
Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble
23. "Let me SLOW IT DOWN for you" In response to Reply # 20
>u think Israel is the gateway to those other natural >resources? it's not... >
Israel it a key lynchpin in helping the US to maintain it's influence over the Natural Resources within the Middle East. The same goes for Military Influence.
And It's just one factor, but if you want to jump on this one point then go on and do that.
. . . "And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4
25. "thought i already addressed that" In response to Reply # 23
>>u think Israel is the gateway to those other natural >>resources? it's not... >> > > >Israel it a key lynchpin in helping the US to maintain it's >influence over the Natural Resources within the Middle East. >The same goes for Military Influence.
my point being that this isn't working...not even a little bit...China has cornered the market...this is an overestimation of Israel's power...
military power != economic power
Our situation in Iraq is proof enough of that...
it also doesn't make logical sense either
let's simplify it for u...
if region A, B, and C all have these natural resources...
and D (exponentially smaller than surrounding regions) is in the middle of them and in open conflict with A, and has shitty relations with B and C...
why would it make sense to ally with with D rather than A, B, or C or even truer to form play A against B
it's literally the opposite of what you would do in this situation which would suggest that there are other reasons for supporting D
it's a misconception about our support of israel...it doesn't garner us ANY control over those resources...capital does...
China is buying the most of it up and selling it to everyone else at a rate that makes them pretty much capable of setting up the price points globally...
so no...they are not that lynchpin...they have no semblance of control over those resources and neither do we
Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble
27. "I agree about China. It's buying up resources in Africa" In response to Reply # 25
>>>u think Israel is the gateway to those other natural >>>resources? it's not... >>> >> >> >>Israel it a key lynchpin in helping the US to maintain it's >>influence over the Natural Resources within the Middle >East. >>The same goes for Military Influence. > >my point being that this isn't working...not even a little >bit...China has cornered the market...this is an >overestimation of Israel's power... > >military power != economic power > >Our situation in Iraq is proof enough of that... > >it also doesn't make logical sense either >
Man you always have something to say to me about everything. It's like you love trying and failing to challenge me on something. It's rather silly. And I don't need you to simplify anything for me.
But for S&G's here goes.
No, the global issue and resource consumption is not singular in nature - WE ALL KNOW THIS SLICK. But the current discussion centers on the topic of Israel and its relationship with US. Why there is such strong support and why the US has such weak leverage in the matter.
With that said, I pointed out several factors and the reasoning why the US Supports Israel, but you seem to be bent on trying to make a point that no one is arguing or disputing in regards to other influences.
But on on and Cook Homes. .
. . . "And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4
28. "it's not proving to work in that area" In response to Reply # 27
is what i'm saying...
so why continue the support...
i'm trying to explore those other reasons rather than harp on the one that has been parroted often but usually proven to not be a sound diplomatic policy
are we just stubbornly sticking to that plan even though it's not proving particularly useful bc we've already pissed off everyone else or are there other reasons?
i'm not challenging you...im saying that i don't believe that narrative anymore seeing as though it doesn't stand up to scrutiny and also hasn't provided much quantifiable or tangible benefits for us
that's literally all i'm saying...if that is the reason we continue to support...damn, we really are as stupid as people think we are
Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble
12. "the majority of the shit they support doesn't make sense" In response to Reply # 5
doesn't have to when money is involved a good relationship with israel facilitates spending in the military industrial complex fighting against a common enemy (muslim extremists) democrats are just as heavy if you be honest (schumer, ackerman, etc)
15. "Because existence of Israel: Rapture, Armageddon, 2nd coming" In response to Reply # 5
I forgot exactly in which order those 3 events are supposed to happen but Christian Zionists are the livest ones representing the state of Israel to the fullest since it fulfills prophecy
Also, in their view Jews are just unconverted Christians
13. "Sadly, it's only going to get worse....Israel is drenched in prophecy" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Mar-24-15 09:48 AM by Vex_id
What is rarely discussed is how Netanyahu’s hard-line right-wing extremism is drenched in prophecy and superstition, much like the Islamist extremist caliphate narrative. Netanyahu’s brand of extremism believes that once all of the Arabs are removed from Gaza, that then - and only then - will the messiah arrive to herald in a new age where the “chosen people” will fulfill their long-awaited prophecy. Alike, the Islamist extremist agenda seeks to draw in the “armies of Rome” into Syria - which is the catalyzing moment in their prophetic narrative when their caliph will be endorsed by Allah and signal the fulfillment of their prophecy. While one of these extremist narratives is vilified, the other is celebrated and upheld. Netanyahu is not only pardoned for his extremist, apocalyptic beliefs and apartheid-policies, he is endorsed by a large segment of our politic.
There is much more at play here than is being covered by the press.
Even by his own eschatology (which probably reflects right wing religious zionism), it can't work that way.
There are conditions for Moshiach to show up, and *just* possessing Judea and Samaria aka the West Bank aka THAT'S MY PARKING SPOT isn't one of them.
It is definitely ONE condition, which is why so many screaming nutbags are in the settlements.
But 'armies of Rome', etc. don't factor into Jewish eschatology, mainly because it developed before any of these other religions or institutions existed.
It's also not an exclusive eschatology -- pretty much anyone who qualifies as 'righteous' gets into Gan Eden/The World To Come. Post-Revelation/Rapture/Whatever is very vague in Judaism. Christianity and Islam had some pretty fertile ground to sow their own visions of what happens at the end of days.
16. "Israel isn't willing to sacrifice its relationship w/ U.S. for nothing" In response to Reply # 14
The Gaza settlement situation is not just a negligible issue that could go either way - it's drenched in their prophetic vision and belief system.
>It is definitely ONE condition, which is why so many screaming >nutbags are in the settlements.
Right.
>But 'armies of Rome', etc. don't factor into Jewish >eschatology, mainly because it developed before any of these >other religions or institutions existed.
I didn't say it did - I referenced that as the Caliphate epistemology as stated in my post - where the "armies of Rome" (see: the West) enter Syria for the alleged prophetic face-off that will catalyze the prophetic tradition of the Islamist extremists, all the reason for us to stay out of that region and not feed into exactly what they want for their narrative.
29. "So the ultimately power play would be for Dems to have hearings. " In response to Reply # 0
and ask Congressmen if they received sensitive information from israel regarding the negotiations. they will either have to lie or say yes and expose what they have been up to.
Funny aside, we found out that they were spying on us while we were spying on them. SMH.
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