20. "Man, I used to think like this until I was in college and met folks who" In response to Reply # 14 Fri Mar-20-15 12:13 PM by Fishgrease
were grown and had never left the metro Atlanta area.
So while I can't logically grasp it, I understand how even getting 1.5 hours away for something as monumental as a college campus visit is unattainable for some folks. Especially if you may be the first person in your family to go to college. You may not even know the importance of doing such--you just want to go to school and the dangling of a financial carrot (i.e, a full ride scholarship) and family pressure will have you accepting damn near anything.
Hell I once went to school at Coastal Carolina University in Myrtle Beach, SC and I can tell you that the school I visited during orientation was not the school I went to when enrollment actually came around. The 100's of black/latino students I saw while "visiting" the campus potentially became less than a 100 when I actually became a student.
So troubling that it led to my withdrawing from there less than 5 weeks later, sitting out a year and going to Clark Atlanta Univ a year later.
88. "I totally agree...that college visit can give you" In response to Reply # 26 Fri Mar-20-15 03:54 PM by Fishgrease
sooooooo much. Had it not been for a college tour of Syracuse.
I'd be an alumni.
I went up there in the dead of winter after living in VA for 2+ years and before that never living any further north than Kennesaw, GA.
I wasn't prepared for snow.
Had actually never experience snow until that point.
Yeah, we had snow in VA and we had frozen ice (that was called snow) in GA but that powdery sh*t that when you walk on it, you disappear? No I hadn't experienced that and I knew I wasn't able to handle that white sh*t.
That white sh*t was for whites, sh*t and as such, I kept my college choices further south.
way south.
and way below the Mason-Dixon line & away from harsh winter precipitation that lasts for weeks on end.
4. "RE: Did you read the article" In response to Reply # 3
"When I saw the row of flags in the building I instantly told my mother that I wanted to go back home."
I think it's safe to say that if her immediate reaction upon arriving on campus is wanting to turn around and go home, she was surprised by what she saw.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r
6. "why is that a go-to reaction for people who hear about something ef'd up" In response to Reply # 0
> and be surprised by the racist sh*t you see?
"why are you suprised?"
huh? what difference would that have made on the ef'd up shit happening?
because you knew about it, that somehow makes the situation better...because you aren't going to be hurt by it? because you weren't 'suprised'. so those assholes get to keep being assholes without reaction because everyone knows that's just how it is.
9. "RE: why is that a go-to reaction for people who hear about something ef'..." In response to Reply # 6
>> and be surprised by the racist sh*t you see? > > >"why are you suprised?" > >huh? what difference would that have made on the ef'd up shit >happening?
Because, people assume articles like this (or any messages like this) are ASKING FOR UNDERSTANDING/SYMPATHY/something.
and...............
(surprise, surprise)
LOT'S of people are RELUCTANT to give people sympathy/understanding.
People only want to give sympathy and understanding to people they feel DESERVE it.
In other words (as many have said)
"YOU brought that on yourself" (whatever you seeking sympathy for).
12. "#actually,she is talking about not being surprised by the SAE incident" In response to Reply # 11 Fri Mar-20-15 11:48 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos
in the opening paragraph.
I am talking about her school experience in which she said the following:
"When I saw the row of flags in the building I instantly told my mother that I wanted to go back home."
Like I said in #4, I think it's safe to say that if her immediate reaction upon arriving on campus is wanting to turn around and go home, she was surprised by what she saw.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r
15. "no it means she didn't LIKE IT." In response to Reply # 12
I watch The Walking Dead every week knowing full well imma see some zombie shit, but still close my eyes during some of the gore
Am i surprised? no
Am i grossed out? yes
again, for clarity, you can be NOT SURPRISED by something but still decide in that moment that you don't like it enough to stick around.
you do know that that is possible, right? i mean, you do know that there are other visceral emotions when confronted with an unpleasant situation that aren't called "surprise", right?
19. "U think she expected to see confederate flags so prominently displayed?" In response to Reply # 15
There is nothing in the first few paragraphs that all suggests that she was expecting the racists shit she saw when she arrived there or that she had any negative pre-conceived notions about the school before she arrived. Her words:
it "had a great academic reputation, and a really cool name. And they gave me a scholarship. I decided to commit to Transy without visiting the campus; I felt like I knew enough about it, and again, they gave me the biggest scholarship of any other school I’d been accepted to (I was also really into vampire lore at the time)."
She said she felt she knew enough about the school!!! And yet, it wasn't until she arrived on campus and saw the confederate flags did she have a change of heart about the school.
In fact, when she saw it, she asked her mother could she return home and her mother told her it wasn't an option.
Why wasn't it an option? I think the implication is it was too late. Maybe it wasn't an option because the school offered her a full ride and she couldn't go to school otherwise, but she never described that as the deciding factor. She listed a whole list of other reasons why she thought Transylvania was a good choice (not a necessary choice because of financial constraints).
Anyway not sure why you think it's a wild assumption to say she was surprised by what she saw giving all this but it seems you are stuck on her saying she wasn't surprised by the SAE incident which is well after her own college experience.
Can you at least acknowledge that you read that wrong when you initially tried to put me on blast?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r
22. "I don't think she was "SURPRISED" more like the situation as " In response to Reply # 19 Fri Mar-20-15 12:26 PM by Fishgrease
presented wasn't expected at least not her first appearance on campus. (Black kid- predominantly white environment...we expect something to go down--so we're not so much as shocked but we're not fully expecting the level or extent that it happens when it does occur)
Being in Kentucky, itself, (THE BLUEGRASS STATE) took away the element of surprise. The behavior and the displaying of the flag didn't SHOCK or SURPRISE her---she was just taken aback that the symbols of racism weren't hidden or presented over time.
27. "Sometimes even with the (warning) flags in our face, we try " In response to Reply # 23
to convince ourselves that it "can't be THAT bad" (or that it'll change)
Combine that with the pressure of just being an 18 yr old leaving home and going to college + not wanting to disappoint your family---I can see HOW it can happen.
The thing is we're viewing the HOW can it happen as a much older adult and it's 1000 x's easier now to say "I wouldn't have went".
If given the same circumstances and a FULL RIDE---I'm sure that there's many an OKP that would've taken the offer as well, sight unseen.
back in 1994 i turned down a full ride @ Mizzou after i'd visited the campus and didn't feel comfortable there. but that was then...i dunno that i'd turn down a full ride today given the new economy - even if i didn't feel comfortable on the campus. that's a tougher decision today than it was then.
anyway, having been in the situation a bit i don't fault homegirl for taking the money. especially since as much as she was bothered by the flags all over and other similar stuff she stayed and graduated.
36. "if she went just because of the money, I could totally get it. " In response to Reply # 27
She can come in here and say I went purely for the dough and I can't knock that and it probably is even worth doing.
But from reading the piece, it just didn't sound like that was the deciding factor as to why she went. The main thrust seems to be she wanted a fresh start.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Fri Mar-20-15 12:46 PM
29. "you aren't wrong..." In response to Reply # 23
I went to school down south my first year. U of Tennessee. I wasn't surprised by the rebel flags because it was the south. I WAS surprised by how nice most white people were and by how many fine ass indian women were in Knoxville. GOTDAYUM!!!
Anyway... ole girl lived in Kentucky. C'mon.. ain't noooo way you live in KY, go to a small ass school called Translyania with a .005% black population unless you want to have a story to tell.
LAbeathustla Member since Jan 24th 2004 33858 posts
Fri Mar-20-15 01:12 PM
44. "why are you and two of yur black friends going to a party where you know" In response to Reply # 16
youre not wanted? I almost coukd understand if her friends were white and shes sort of tryin to fit in but they couldnt find the Q Dawg house at UK that night? they were asking for trouble
81. "you KNOW folks give mixed messages" In response to Reply # 44
cut that out ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
40. "as i read it this is the main point she's making:" In response to Reply # 38
I don’t mean to suggest, of course, that everybody living in the dorm or on campus was racially insensitive and addicted to Confederate insignia — I met some truly wonderful and beautiful people of all races at Transy. Nor am I positing that members of KA were the only racially insensitive people on campus. But I do mean to paint a picture of why that SAE video, while jarring, did not surprise me. "For a black girl fighting to get an education in the South, fraternities were an early introduction to privilege. I learned then that certain people could essentially do and say what they wanted with little more than a slap on the wrist or a moved portrait as punishment.
White fraternities seem to attract the most privileged of already privileged men and boys, and they become breeding grounds for all the “isms” that white exclusiveness can create — sexism, classism, racism. And their offenses are often explained away as mistakes. Someone wrote “nigger” on a black kid’s door? A prank gone wrong. A girl is raped at a frat party? Boys will be boys. A group of white frat boys sings a song about hanging niggers on a bus? Everyone makes mistakes.
This week, as I clicked through my alma mater’s website to jog my memory to write this essay, I noticed that all references to Jefferson Davis seem to have been quietly removed, even from the short list of notable alumni that ends the brief telling of Transy’s history. Davis is slated to be torn down and rebuilt soon. I wonder if they’ll quietly drop his name from that too."
^^ those are the last 3 paragraphs. her article is mostly about her reaction to the SAE Oklahoma video. she's using her experiences at Transylvania to explain how/why she has the position she does on that video.
what do you think is the main point of the article?
"But I don't think I am going in any more than if someone had made a post about this in OKP"
"But I don't think I am going in any more"
^^ i read that to say you are going in, but only to a certain degree. it doesn't read to me that you are NOT going in.
"than if someone had made a post about this in OKP"
^^ to me that says if this had been posted here you'd go in on it just as much as you are currently going in having read this on BF w/o knowing it was written by an OKP.
again - as i read it you say you're going in, but only as much as you would if you'd known this was written by an OKP.
Going in is a subjective term. I don't think I am going in. Some might think that I am. My response to them would be that I am not going in any more than if she posted it here and we discussed it.
That makes sense right?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r
~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
65. "no, it's just you being you." In response to Reply # 60
you feel really on mission highlighting that an 18 year old made a life-changing decision based on what anyone can see is probably not enough information
93. "I love how y'all do this" In response to Reply # 72
this, "ohh you don't know me. thanks for following me around bit."
even if y'all are of the ilk that take a concerted effort to be performative online, (which it all is, performance), there is a still a persona and ideological trail y'all leave on this boards and other social media.
some of y'all have 30-40,000 even 50,000+ post and have the ridiculous nerve to be like "Ohh Rjcc, you don't know me!" nah but he and I or anybody else def gets a sense of the type of shit you and I or anyone else endorses, co-signs, and reasons behind within OKP, day after day
like Rjcc said, I'm not surprised you take this nitpickety line of thought. You was in that post about the Black Harvard kids and their little social media resistance, disparaging them, as well.
you are either highly insensitive to others personal struggles or lack any intellectual honesty
97. " How am I disparaging the writer? " In response to Reply # 93
What exactly did I say that got you so hurtbutt and catching feelings?
Because I am questioning why she would go to such a school in the first place?
Again, I'll maintain at most you can know is that, in your opinion, that I am highly insensitive in discussing other peoples struggles online . You have nothing to judge how I deal with and treat peoples personal struggles in real life.
I am good on how I handle that in real life and have never had an experience where anyone said I have done otherwise but be respectful.
I do like the ability to discuss topics like this frankly online because you usually don't have to worry about the niceties you would have to observe in discussing with someone in person.
I may have approached this topic slightly different if she posted it here but I would have still had the same question.
ANd yeah, I stick by that Harvard thing being navel gazing self absorbed and a bit whiny. I think they should use that platform to help other folks, not complain about their hard existence at Harvard (BTW, if it needs to be said, if I were discussing it with them I don't think I would put it the same way).
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're
101. "RE: by being a nit picky little mija who missed the main point" In response to Reply # 97 Fri Mar-20-15 04:54 PM by astralblak
>Because I am questioning why she would go to such a school in >the first place? > yup. what kind of pompous elitist, hyper-privileged type of perspective is that. "just go somewhere else". FOH
>Again, I'll maintain at most you can know is that, in your >opinion, that I am highly insensitive in discussing other >peoples struggles online.
and by being typically misinformed, lacking nuance, and attaching miles of verbal diarrhea to things that are besides the point
You have nothing to judge how I >deal with and treat peoples personal struggles in real life. > we aren't doing that we are judging the ignorance of your online persona
>I am good on how I handle that in real life and have never had >an experience where anyone said I have done otherwise but be >respectful. > good for you. glad you're perfect
> >ANd yeah, I stick by that Harvard thing being navel gazing >self absorbed and a bit whiny.
sound just about right from the way you typing in here. good for you asshole
I think they should use that >platform to help other folks, not complain about their hard >existence at Harvard (BTW, if it needs to be said, if I were >discussing it with them I don't think I would put it the same >way).
which how the fuck do you know they are not. as if being at Harvard is the end all be all. like they are not doing outreach or being advocates or will create business or opportunities once they graduate. as I said above pompous ass position
63. "I got into Ole Miss. Watched A Time to Kill and tore up my offer letter" In response to Reply # 0 Fri Mar-20-15 02:51 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik
Site unseen. Partly because of its portrayal of racism. But mainly because the movie makes it look like Mississippi is as hot as the devil's kitchen. Everybody in that movie is perpetually drenched in sweat.
Racial oppression I can tolerate. Oppressive heat, not so much
80. "I don't play with that shit" In response to Reply # 63
> >Racial oppression I can tolerate. Oppressive heat, not so >much
agreed ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
its okp you know there are more dumbasses than this ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
96. "Is it me or is she imagining a lot of this shit? the words in italics..." In response to Reply # 0
did somebody actually say that or was that what she was thinking in her head.
Other than that most of this seems its about white folks in the south liking confederate flags, big surprise. There's the 1 time they wrote "nigger" in ol boy's door and the supposed noose at graduation but overall this story seems kinda sensationalized to me.
"when I was growin' up if we wanted a jacuzzi we had to fart in the tub!"
99. "Yeah I was waiting for something to happen..." In response to Reply # 96 Fri Mar-20-15 04:42 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik
Her time at the university seems to be pretty uneventful.
She didn't mention anyone directly targeting her or any events directly involving her. For all I know all the students and faculty treated her just fine.
The flag and the frats weirdly strong relationship to their history seem to her only encounter with racism at the school.
If that is true, that is the suprising thing to me, given that it is university in the South The school should be commended
109. "RE: Yeah I was waiting for something to happen..." In response to Reply # 99
>Her time at the university seems to be pretty uneventful. > >She didn't mention anyone directly targeting her or any events >directly involving her. >For all I know all the students and faculty treated her just >fine.
it was a fucked up 4 years. plenty happened that i did not mention in this article. this article is specifically about fraternities and racism on college campuses. open praising of a south that enslaved and lynched blacks creates a hostile campus environment which may not be a big deal to you, and that's fine.
>The flag and the frats weirdly strong relationship to their >history seem to her only encounter with racism at the school.
this is very incorrect.
>If that is true, that is the suprising thing to me, given that >it is university in the South >The school should be commended
"Those flags were often the first things I saw in the morning and the last things I saw at night, smugly watching me scurry to class, snickering, mocking. Well, I do declare! Look at that uppity coon, making like she belongs here, like she’s one of us. This is what happens when you teach ‘em to read. Hope that nigger makes it home before the sun goes down."
"those flags were...smugly watching me scurry to class, snickering, mocking."
the point im making is that the words in italics are what i felt whenever i saw those flags on campus. i didnt put them in quotation marks because they were not quotes.
104. "Maybe she shouldn't have used the word surprised..." In response to Reply # 0
but she did seem 'prepared' for seeing or experiencing classic racism before she went to the college.
Like other posters mentioned, she was 18 and like alot of 18 year olds, thought that she could block out the racism she was prepared for.
Kind of unrelated here, but a while ago I ended up in Germany on a trip. I was at a train station and just happened to lock eyes with two guys who appeared fascist. They stared at me with a hate I was 'prepared' to see as Germany unfortunately has a bad history of dealing with violence targeted towards minorities, but wasn't able to fully comprehend in that moment.
Sometimes people, like deer, 'freeze in the headlights'. Seems like that's what happened here.
i didnt visit bc i felt like i knew enough about the school and never in my life would have figured that i should go check for confederate flags first.
im very glad i didnt visit the campus first because i wouldnt have gone which means i never would have been in a position to fight for the changes that i did and i wouldnt have become the woman that i am.
also i dont care who you are, seeing somebody in a confederate uniform when it in this century is shocking.
'why are you surprised when this happens' is a lazy response, imo. and 'if you dont like racist things dont go to racist places' is not how we end racist things. further, any insinuation that you dont have a right to complain about fucked up shit bc you voluntarily entered into a space where fucked up shit happens is illogical and wrong.
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