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Subject: "so who's at fault here " Previous topic | Next topic
esb225
Member since Nov 12th 2003
41415 posts
Tue Mar-17-15 10:52 AM

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"so who's at fault here "


  

          

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/minn-teen-family-sues-eatery-death-pancakes-article-1.2151905

in short kid/family asked if they were dairy free highly allergic... ate the pancakes appears to not be dairy free he forgets his epi pen and inhaler ... dies 3 days later

now if you are THAT allergic i would think u keep that pen on you at all times no?

I got a good life man

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Parents (and kid's) fault
Mar 17th 2015
1
yikes. the restaurant is definetly at fault.
Mar 17th 2015
2
nah. A small town diner isn't a "clean room"
Mar 17th 2015
4
      it's a restaurant. food handling is their business.
Mar 17th 2015
6
      see #8
Mar 17th 2015
10
           don't tell me what to do.
Mar 17th 2015
12
      well they should have just said that...
Mar 17th 2015
23
both
Mar 17th 2015
3
Damn thats sad....more on the place of business
Mar 17th 2015
5
vehemently disagree
Mar 17th 2015
8
      but what if the manufacturer of the epi-pen messed up the ingredients
Mar 17th 2015
11
           drugs ARE processed in clean-rooms
Mar 17th 2015
14
                restaurants ARE supposed to know what food they are serving.
Mar 17th 2015
16
                     and they should not be held liable for cross-contamination
Mar 17th 2015
18
                     ^^^^exactly
Mar 17th 2015
20
                     the restaurant went through 'great length' to clean up the space.
Mar 17th 2015
24
                     So, you don't understand how severe food allergies work. Gotcha
Mar 17th 2015
25
                          this aint all about food allergies. it's also about misinformation.
Mar 17th 2015
28
                               no, it isn't
Mar 17th 2015
32
                                    fine.
Mar 17th 2015
59
                     even if the restaurant is liable, the parents are far more liable
Mar 17th 2015
29
                          would it make a difference if this wasn't a 'small town diner'
Mar 17th 2015
34
                               yes.
Mar 17th 2015
37
                                    i don't understand how the scale of the restaurant plays a part.
Mar 17th 2015
42
                                         see reply #35
Mar 17th 2015
43
                                         this america. aint food safety a federal standard?
Mar 17th 2015
46
                                              DOH regulations are determined by the locality
Mar 17th 2015
47
                                              food safety and allergy accommodation is not the same thing.
Mar 17th 2015
49
                                         cool.
Mar 17th 2015
48
                     that doesn't make them at fault though
Mar 17th 2015
19
Would you put your life in the hands of a minimum wage chef and waitress...
Mar 17th 2015
7
I like that dig at underpaid service workers. AWESOME! n/m
Mar 17th 2015
51
This is so sad. I pray that God will comfort all parties involved
Mar 17th 2015
9
Been a vegan for a while, and I wouldn't have eaten at that place...
Mar 17th 2015
13
parents fault
Mar 17th 2015
15
parents.
Mar 17th 2015
17
parents' fault.
Mar 17th 2015
21
so sad...but knowing people that need the pen...they carry at all times ...
Mar 17th 2015
22
The diner. If they hadn't said it was diary free
Mar 17th 2015
26
if the parents had had the kid's epi pen the kid wouldn't have died.
Mar 17th 2015
30
      the child would also be alive if the parents weren't lied to.
Mar 17th 2015
31
      no b/c even if they were lied to the pen would've saved him.
Mar 17th 2015
33
      no. if the parent's weren't lied to, they would've passed on the meal.
Mar 17th 2015
36
           k.
Mar 17th 2015
39
           how do you know they were lied to?
Mar 17th 2015
40
      how do you know they were lied to?
Mar 17th 2015
45
      staff members said the pancakes were dairy free. they're not.
Mar 17th 2015
50
           how do you know they weren't dairy free? did you make them?
Mar 17th 2015
54
           tbh the form of transmission was never specified
Mar 17th 2015
57
           what's the point of the 'dairy free' and 'gluten free' labels if it's
Mar 17th 2015
60
                the labels just put ppl on notice
Mar 17th 2015
65
           A lie requires an attempt to deceive. It probably was an honest mistake.
Mar 17th 2015
80
      they were not lied to
Mar 17th 2015
61
      It should limit liability....
Mar 17th 2015
38
           in Minnesota, parents may not recover from the restaurant
Mar 17th 2015
64
                thanks, I didn't consider this either
Mar 17th 2015
66
                Epi pens don't always save lives,
Mar 17th 2015
82
n/m
Mar 17th 2015
kid/family. if the restaurant went out of their way to give him...
Mar 17th 2015
27
as much as I wanna ride for the diner
Mar 17th 2015
35
i'm w/the diner b/c the parents should've had the pen w/them
Mar 17th 2015
52
      once again, we're >< with it.
Mar 17th 2015
55
      oh I feel you 100%, I'm just basing this on my own experience
Mar 17th 2015
63
           yes/no.
Mar 17th 2015
67
                you learn something new everyday, thank you kindly.
Mar 17th 2015
68
                thanks
Mar 17th 2015
72
the diner
Mar 17th 2015
41
if the teen was with his friends...teen's fault
Mar 17th 2015
44
If the allergies are that serious, why put your life on the line...
Mar 17th 2015
53
Makes me think of the time I worked in a restaurant....
Mar 17th 2015
56
what was the fallout of this incident? was the restaurant responsible
Mar 17th 2015
58
      Man, I was merely a dishwasher and wasn't privvy to that info.
Mar 17th 2015
62
parents at fault
Mar 17th 2015
69
teen
Mar 17th 2015
70
Family for not having the pen.
Mar 17th 2015
71
i agree 100%
Mar 17th 2015
73
^
Mar 17th 2015
78
i'm totally having pancakes for dinner.
Mar 17th 2015
74
I had 3 perfect banana flax seed ones for brunch
Mar 17th 2015
83
pancakes..............PANCAKES! (c) Cabin Fever
Mar 17th 2015
75
. . .
Mar 17th 2015
76
If you have an allergy and walk out the house without an epipen
Mar 17th 2015
77
The cook could've taken all kinds of precautions and an issue...
Mar 17th 2015
79
You can not meals at restaurants if you have serious allergies
Mar 17th 2015
81

John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Mar-17-15 10:57 AM

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1. "Parents (and kid's) fault"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Gotta carry that epiPen

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 10:59 AM

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2. "yikes. the restaurant is definetly at fault."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:01 AM

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4. "nah. A small town diner isn't a "clean room""
In response to Reply # 2


          

Shit gets cross-contaminated. No one with allergies that severe should ever eat out without their EpiPen.

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:05 AM

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6. "it's a restaurant. food handling is their business."
In response to Reply # 4


          

it's a very important business, that's filled with knowledge-bases and rules around food and allergies.

the parents asked, the business submitted wrong information.

the business didn't know what was in the food they were serving.

how is that okay?

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:10 AM

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10. "see #8"
In response to Reply # 6


          

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:13 AM

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12. "don't tell me what to do."
In response to Reply # 10


          

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Tue Mar-17-15 11:35 AM

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23. "well they should have just said that..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

we can't guarantee the pancakes are dairy free.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
70762 posts
Tue Mar-17-15 11:01 AM

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3. "both "
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:02 AM

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5. "Damn thats sad....more on the place of business"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but with that severe of an allergy better have a survival fanny pack

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:09 AM

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8. "vehemently disagree"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Severe milk allergies are no joke. I have a friend who has them, and he can't even go into a Starbucks because of the airborne milk particles from foaming and steaming.

If trace amounts can kill you, the onus is on you to protect yourself.

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
13358 posts
Tue Mar-17-15 11:12 AM

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11. "but what if the manufacturer of the epi-pen messed up the ingredients"
In response to Reply # 8


          

and a batch of epiipens weren't filled with epinephrine, but with some other fatal substance.

the batch of pens were botched at the facility.

would the parents still be at fault because they should've tested the epi pen's ingredients before using it on the boy?

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:15 AM

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14. "drugs ARE processed in clean-rooms"
In response to Reply # 11


          

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:17 AM

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16. "restaurants ARE supposed to know what food they are serving."
In response to Reply # 14


          

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:21 AM

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18. "and they should not be held liable for cross-contamination "
In response to Reply # 16


          

of trace amounts. You know how a loaf of bread might have a warning that says "processed in a facility that processed peanuts" or whatever? The boy and his family understood that their food was being cooked in a kitchen that uses dairy products.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Tue Mar-17-15 11:22 AM

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20. "^^^^exactly"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:39 AM

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24. "the restaurant went through 'great length' to clean up the space."
In response to Reply # 18


          

and the parents asked the appropriate questions.

it went through all the motions.

the business assured the customer that everything was going to be okay.

that was the agreement between the customer and restaurant.

the restaurant didn't cover their end of the agreement.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:40 AM

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25. "So, you don't understand how severe food allergies work. Gotcha"
In response to Reply # 24


          

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:44 AM

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28. "this aint all about food allergies. it's also about misinformation."
In response to Reply # 25


          

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:49 AM

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32. "no, it isn't"
In response to Reply # 28


          

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:25 PM

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59. "fine."
In response to Reply # 32


          

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:45 AM

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29. "even if the restaurant is liable, the parents are far more liable "
In response to Reply # 18
Tue Mar-17-15 11:45 AM by SoWhat

  

          

for allowing the kid to eat those pancakes under those circumstances w/o having his epi pen immediately available. a reasonable parent in that situation would've had the pen or wouldn't have allowed the kid to eat the pancakes w/o it due to the fairly high risk that the small town diner would end up cross contaminating the pancakes w/even a trace amount of dairy.

fuck you.

  

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Deadzombie
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:52 AM

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34. "would it make a difference if this wasn't a 'small town diner'"
In response to Reply # 29


          

would this still be the case if it was eleven madison park?

  

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SoWhat
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37. "yes."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

b/c it'd be at least slightly more reasonable for the parents to trust that facility's word about decontamination b/c that facility would likely have more experience w/the issue and would likely have better trained staff to handle it.

but the parents would still be primarily at fault for allowing the kid to eat the pancakes w/o having the epi pen immediately available. the whole point of the pen is to prevent the kid going into shock as he did after having eaten the pancakes at issue here.

fuck you.

  

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Deadzombie
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:03 PM

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42. "i don't understand how the scale of the restaurant plays a part."
In response to Reply # 37


          

because it's a 'small town diner', it's held at separate standards than a non-small town restaurant?

or you're mentioning trust from the parents and what they should be convinced of at either business.

im sure there were things in the small restaurant that increased the parent's 'trust' in the situation.

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:04 PM

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43. "see reply #35"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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Deadzombie
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46. "this america. aint food safety a federal standard?"
In response to Reply # 43


          

  

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BabySoulRebel
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47. "DOH regulations are determined by the locality"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

so no, there is no national foodservice standard.
The closest thing to what I think you're referring to is FDA regulation and they wouldn't have jurisdiction here.

here for dis.

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:11 PM

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49. "food safety and allergy accommodation is not the same thing. "
In response to Reply # 46
Tue Mar-17-15 12:12 PM by SHAstayhighalways

  

          

also what babysoulrebel said.

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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SoWhat
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48. "cool."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

fuck you.

  

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MiracleRic
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:22 AM

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19. "that doesn't make them at fault though"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

there is more room for error in food service than there is for drug contamination

that drug has been tested...not just by the parents but by the companies that produce, market, sell, manufacture...

of course the drug company would be held liable because they are rightfully so held to a different standard

i'm not saying the restaurant didn't make a mistake but they really shouldn't be held liable for that

u have to properly police your own allergies...especially one that severe...even in the cleanest of kitchens you could spill a drop of milk in something and be not only unaware but unaware of the fatal impact it might have on someone

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:07 AM

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7. "Would you put your life in the hands of a minimum wage chef and waitress..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel like Fault is the wrong way to talk about it. I feel like "responsibility" is a better way to talk about it.

The family was in the best position to stop something bad from happening. I couldn't trust my life to a minimum wage waitress and chef.

I had this happen to a family friend. little girl spends the day with her grandmother. is offered a cookie at church, she asked her grandmother if it was okay to get the cookie. Didn't appear to have nuts in it but when she ate it she went into shock and died a few days latter.

the worst part is I think no one knew how bad the girls allegery was because if they thought her life depended on it she would have never left the house without her epi pen.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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DaHeathenOne76
Member since May 11th 2003
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:13 PM

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51. "I like that dig at underpaid service workers. AWESOME! n/m"
In response to Reply # 7


          


*****************************************
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de6VnExhelQ

Presenting Collective Peace.

https://www.facebook.com/CollectivePeace

  

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Case_One
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:09 AM

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9. "This is so sad. I pray that God will comfort all parties involved "
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

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8-bit
Member since Jan 12th 2010
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:13 AM

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13. "Been a vegan for a while, and I wouldn't have eaten at that place..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I realized some time ago that some people can't fathom cooking without eggs, milk, butter or meat products. I was burned far too many times with the "It doesn't have meat/dairy in it!" line. For me, my diet is a choice and I didn't take any chances with random places. For dude, his LIFE was on the line. Gotta put this one on the teen & parents.

---
http://twitter.com/logicalhood
http://instagram.com/hoodlogic

  

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Kim Jong Trill
Member since Jan 31st 2012
548 posts
Tue Mar-17-15 11:16 AM

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15. "parents fault"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The restaurant went above and beyond to accommodate them but ultimately the parents are at fault.
Fuck your fort!

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:19 AM

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17. "parents."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Mar-17-15 11:21 AM by SHAstayhighalways

  

          

i mean technically its the restaurants fault
if they requested before hand that they needed the shit to be dairy free
and they told them yes they're dairy free then they have a case as far as court goes
but as a parent with a kid with allergies i definitely take responsibility for
keeping my son away from the things he is allergic to
when you eat out you take the risk of consuming things that are cross contaminated
so in the end as a parent i'd feel guilty for taking my kid out and trusting
the people at the restaurant to really care
and also forgetting the epi pen is COMPLETELY their fault
shouda just had pancakes at home.
sad story.

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:26 AM

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21. "parents' fault."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1. who trusts a small town diner to serve dairy free pancakes?

2. most pancakes are made w/dairy.

3. considering how allergic that kid was it's pretty negligent for the parents to let him eat that food w/o having his epi pen.

4. especially if the epi pen could've helped save him.

5. yes, the diner has some liability too. but the majority is on the parents, IMO.

fuck you.

  

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R A i n
Member since Dec 11th 2003
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:30 AM

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22. "so sad...but knowing people that need the pen...they carry at all times ..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Mar-17-15 11:31 AM by R A i n

  

          

if by chance they don't have it then they just don't take the risk.

...
we understand you can easily come back and we're not impressed. how about getting a life first. okpdan

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:43 AM

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26. "The diner. If they hadn't said it was diary free"
In response to Reply # 0


          

the kid wouldn't have died. All they had to say was the blah blah trace amounts spiel that's on almost every packaged food item on the planet.

  

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SoWhat
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30. "if the parents had had the kid's epi pen the kid wouldn't have died."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

the parents' negligence is an intervening cause of the kid's death, IMO. it should at least limit the restaurant's liability for giving bad info and/or failing at its decontamination.

fuck you.

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:48 AM

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31. "the child would also be alive if the parents weren't lied to."
In response to Reply # 30


          

  

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SoWhat
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33. "no b/c even if they were lied to the pen would've saved him."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          



fuck you.

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:54 AM

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36. "no. if the parent's weren't lied to, they would've passed on the meal."
In response to Reply # 33


          

  

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SoWhat
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39. "k."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

fuck you.

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:00 PM

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40. "how do you know they were lied to?"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

they could have cleaned the area and the batter could have been dairy free and the risk of allergic reaction is still there
when you have allergies that severe having an epi-pen with you at all times is IMPERATIVE
any 'trace' can set people off if your allergy is severe enough
if the kitchen has other diary things going on the risk of getting a 'trace' in the food is there
my BIL's nephew couldn't even be in the same room as peanuts without having a reaction
it is up to the people with the allergy (and their parents for kids) to always be prepared
hell the dairy could have been on the table on the seat anything not necessarily in the food
but dairy is served there so the risk is there and you have to take precaution

this shit is similar to being a pedestrian and looking both ways regardless of if you have the right of way
because even if you have the right of way you can still get hit by a car
the driver of the car can be wrong as fuck but you still ran the fuck over because you didn't look both ways.

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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PROMO
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45. "how do you know they were lied to?"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:12 PM

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50. "staff members said the pancakes were dairy free. they're not."
In response to Reply # 45


          

the menu said gluten free, and staff was probably tired of answering questions - so they yes'd the family to death.

  

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PROMO
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54. "how do you know they weren't dairy free? did you make them?"
In response to Reply # 50
Tue Mar-17-15 12:17 PM by PROMO

  

          

you're basically putting the onus on the restaurant for knowing how sensitive this kid's allergy is.

they could have done exactly what they said but because they didn't get whatever parts per million of dairy off the grill when they cleaned it the kid still got sick.

point being, YOU don't know if they lied or not.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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BabySoulRebel
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57. "tbh the form of transmission was never specified"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

the staff may have believed that they accommodated the request as best they could by cleaning everything down so they may have held a reasonable belief that the pancakes were daily-free. Employees can't control particles in the air anyways.

here for dis.

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:26 PM

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60. "what's the point of the 'dairy free' and 'gluten free' labels if it's"
In response to Reply # 57


          

all just bullshit?

  

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SoWhat
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65. "the labels just put ppl on notice "
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

that the product maker or facility has taken steps to reduce the amount of the allergen at issue in the product at hand. the labels are NOT a guarantee that the allergen has been completely removed. most products so labeled also contain a warning that the product was processed in a facility that also processes other allergens which is intended to put ppl on notice of the risk of cross contamination.

ppl who choose to eat the product or the served food item are assuming some risk that the food still has the allergen.

so even if the restaurant said the pancakes could be made and/or served dairy-free that wasn't a guarantee.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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80. "A lie requires an attempt to deceive. It probably was an honest mistake."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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esb225
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61. "they were not lied to "
In response to Reply # 31
Tue Mar-17-15 12:34 PM by esb225

  

          

when making the pancakes no diary was used ... now it could have come from the plate it was on or any number of other points... the restaurant didn't say the whole place was diary free just the pancakes

to me if ur that fragile you should really plan a better place to eat and have ur meds.

I got a good life man

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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38. "It should limit liability...."
In response to Reply # 30


          

Agree.

  

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SoWhat
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64. "in Minnesota, parents may not recover from the restaurant"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

in this case if they were more than 50% at fault, i think.

IMO the parents were more than 50% at fault considering i believe if they'd had that pen the boy wouldn't have died. unless someone can convince me that the boy would've died after eating those pancakes even if he'd received his dose from the epi pen in time then i'll probably change my mind.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=604.01

fuck you.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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66. "thanks, I didn't consider this either"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

here for dis.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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82. "Epi pens don't always save lives, "
In response to Reply # 64


          

I don't carry one because I've only went into anaphylactic shock once in 30 years... And i didn't get a shot until hours after and I lived. A person may not know exactly how allergic they are until that once in a blue moon event happens... It may not have seemed necessary if his other reactions were mild.

  

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PROMO
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"n/m"
Tue Mar-17-15 11:51 AM by PROMO

  

          

.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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PROMO
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27. "kid/family. if the restaurant went out of their way to give him..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Mar-17-15 11:44 AM by PROMO

  

          

dairy-free food, then they did their job. they can't possibly be responsible because this kid is hyper, HYPER-sensitive to dairy.

there's only so clean you can be. seems like they tried for the kid. obviously we need more facts but based on what i read they (the family/kid) should have been prepared ESPECIALLY if the kid was THAT sensitive to his allergen.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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BabySoulRebel
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:52 AM

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35. "as much as I wanna ride for the diner"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it really depends on the DOH regs in that town/state regarding food handling and allergies. It sounds like a small town so I wouldn't be surprised if they had next to no regulations on the books regarding these types of incidents.

It sounds like the diner did everything in their power to accommodate the allergy including having the cook clean the grill prior. The kid probably was being a kid forgetting momentarily the severity of his allergy just so he could be normal like his friends. A very unfortunate situation all around for everyone.

here for dis.

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:14 PM

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52. "i'm w/the diner b/c the parents should've had the pen w/them"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

due to the reality that the diner could've done everything in its power to decontaminate the kitchen and utensils and then prepared the pancakes and the boy still could've had that severe reaction due to some trace amount of dairy left somewhere in the decontamination process. which is why the parents are supposed to carry an epi pen for the boy and if they don't have the pen then they shouldn't have allowed him to eat strange food (they'd never had it and he'd never had it) at an unfamiliar restaurant knowing how allergic he is and how severe the reaction would be if he ate even a trace amount of dairy.

the restaurant could be blameless and the kid still could've had that reaction which wouldn't have resulted in shock and later death if the parents had just had that epi pen w/them as they're supposed to.

fuck you.

  

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PROMO
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55. "once again, we're >< with it."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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BabySoulRebel
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63. "oh I feel you 100%, I'm just basing this on my own experience"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

in the foodservice industry
what I'm saying is that it will probably boil down to whatever DOH regulations are already in place.
this will probably be a precedent case for that town.

here for dis.

  

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SoWhat
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67. "yes/no."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

there won't be any precedent set unless the case is reviewed by some appellate court after it's been through trial court*. if it even gets that far - there will likely be a settlement or dismissal before it goes so far. i say that b/c most civil cases are settled or dismissed before they get to trial.

and the relevant DOH standards may be used by one or both parties to establish the standard of care the restaurant should've used when decontaminating the kitchen.

* - precedent is an actual legal term. it basically refers to law made by certain courts in certain cases that must be followed by judges in later cases. only appellate courts can make this kind of law, generally. trial courts almost never do - and they only do so when answering questions of law not questions of fact. the issues in this case we're discussing are mostly questions of fact - what happened? who is at fault? those aren't legal questions. no precedent will be made when those questions are answered in a trial court. if the case is reviewed by an appellate court(s) after a trial or a dismissal (depending on why it was dismissed) then the appellate court might make new law depending on how it rules on the review.

fuck you.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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68. "you learn something new everyday, thank you kindly."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

here for dis.

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
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Tue Mar-17-15 02:36 PM

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72. "thanks"
In response to Reply # 67


          

  

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lazyboi
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41. "the diner"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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labcoat
Member since Jun 15th 2006
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:06 PM

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44. "if the teen was with his friends...teen's fault"
In response to Reply # 0


          

but as a parent
even if the child carries his own epi pen
i DAMN SURE will have one in my purse at all times

sh!t i keep on in my purse at all times now
it's the parent's fault for not having the proper
life saving medications on them at all times

the restaurant is liable since they have assurance

something similiar happened to me and wildchild
we went to warmdaddy's
i ordered her the catfish nuggets
she started breaking out bad
in hives after eating them

she is allergic to milk and eggs
i asked them if they dipped the catfish in them
the waitress said yes
then came back and said no

honestly i wasnt upset they she had a reaction because
i didnt ask
(i dont fry fish so i didnt think of the milk/ egg use)
i just wanted to know what was
causing my child's reaction

basically their stories were changing
we left
but at this point i hate warmdaddy's for just
not being honest

it was my fault for not asking

so now i ask
everytime we go out to eat somewhere

--------------
Daren, I'll never forget you
http://www.fayemurman.com/extras/magee/daren/

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:15 PM

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53. "If the allergies are that serious, why put your life on the line..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

If trace amounts of a common ingredient will set off a reaction, then it's probably a good idea to keep the control in your own hands.
Not the underpaid kitchen staff.

_______________________________________

  

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The Wordsmith
Member since Aug 13th 2002
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:23 PM

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56. "Makes me think of the time I worked in a restaurant...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...where this one customer needed his steak to have no seasoning due to his allergies. The chef made sure to not season dude's steak but since he handled a number of steaks at the time, he forgot to not use the same tongs he used for the seasoned steaks. Dude ended up having to be carried out by ambulance (if memory serves me correctly).

Me personally, I'd probably avoid eating out if I had allergies that severe. Too risky when dealing with kitchens that normally don't have to be careful on that level. Cats may forget something due to habits and have you messed up.




Since 1976

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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Tue Mar-17-15 12:25 PM

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58. "what was the fallout of this incident? was the restaurant responsible"
In response to Reply # 56


          

for any damages?

  

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The Wordsmith
Member since Aug 13th 2002
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62. "Man, I was merely a dishwasher and wasn't privvy to that info."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

The only reason I knew as much as I did was because of me talking with the chef.


Since 1976

  

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luminous
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69. "parents at fault"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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70. "teen"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he must have had a few emergencies by know to know
CARRY YOUR DAMN EPI PEN AND INHALER
but no
depend on other people to ensure your well being
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Phenomenality
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71. "Family for not having the pen. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if it's not a restaurant FOR people with allergies where staff is specifically trained, it's not safe.

how you have a deadly allergy and don't have a pen on you at all times??

likely the pancake mix is purchased in bulk and is stored in huge containers and when asked if it has milk probably replied "no" meaning they don't add MILK to the mix, but water. (many gluten-free mixes take water and eggs only) but more often than not the mix itself has powdered milk IN it. most who take water only have powdered milk.

im sure the ingredients aren't listed on the bulk containers.. and the family should have known better considering he is a teen and they've been dealing with this for many years. it is EXTREMELY hard to find gluten,soy and dairy free products (i have several children at my preschool with severe allergies, one with milk allergy and epi pen).

i do the shopping and i know how hard it is to find mixes that don't have dairy. we have to make his pancakes special out of biscuit mix separately from the other kids food because I can't find a good mix that also is soy-free (that's his other allergy).

it's a tragic situation, but he would not have died if they had their epi pen on them.

they maybe could have sued for the staff being wrong and causing him to have a reaction, but not for him dying.. that's on them.


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

  

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labcoat
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73. "i agree 100%"
In response to Reply # 71


          

--------------
Daren, I'll never forget you
http://www.fayemurman.com/extras/magee/daren/

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
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78. "^"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Just IMO though.

  

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SoWhat
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74. "i'm totally having pancakes for dinner."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck you.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Tue Mar-17-15 11:17 PM

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83. "I had 3 perfect banana flax seed ones for brunch "
In response to Reply # 74


          

>

  

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ShinobiShaw
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75. "pancakes..............PANCAKES! (c) Cabin Fever"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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SoWhat
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76. ". . ."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4vg86zTvs1qzcl1lo1_500.gif

fuck you.

  

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Very-Effortless
Member since May 07th 2011
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Tue Mar-17-15 02:55 PM

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77. "If you have an allergy and walk out the house without an epipen"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You're pretty stupid.

My nephews have nuts and shellfish allergies and I won't even taken them to the park down the street without an epipen.

It's not even what THEY ingest, if they play with a kid who had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch their airway will start to close up from those trace amounts... I've see. It happen. Both of them have to sit at the peanut-free table at school during lunch.

When we go out to eat we notify the servers about their allergies but mistakes happen. You have to be vigilant.

Once I ordered a big brownie sundae for the table and when the waiter brought it out my oldest nephew got up and ran across the restaurant. We were like "where are you going?!?!" And he screamed something about peanuts. Sure enough there was an errant peanut on the sundae. Just one but it was enough to make that kid bolt for the door and ask for us to stop for Benadryl on the way home "just in case" (his words).

Now if a 6 year old can be that responsible, why can't two grown ass parents?

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The Green Mile is a movie where the magical black man wrongly dies and the white man who let it happen lives forever.

  

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The Wordsmith
Member since Aug 13th 2002
17060 posts
Tue Mar-17-15 04:02 PM

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79. "The cook could've taken all kinds of precautions and an issue..."
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....could've still came up. A mere splash of milk or a small crumb of cheese from nearby could easily contaminate a dish.

It's not like their kid's allergic reaction is a non life threatening one where he would be only breaking out in an itchy rash that clears up in a day or two. At least then they may be able to take some risk.

If anything, they should've looked for a vegan restaurant or just packed the kid his own meal. Of course they should've brought his meds like they're supposed to. Severe allergies like that are way too risky to be half stepping.


Since 1976

  

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handle
Charter member
17401 posts
Tue Mar-17-15 04:24 PM

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81. "You can not meals at restaurants if you have serious allergies"
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Restaurants do not treat food as a life a death matter, and there aren't many laws in states to enforce this.

The solution is 1)more laws and regulation (I'm totally fine with this) and/or 2)not eating out if you have serious allergies.

I think a little of both would be sensible.

  

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