I'm grading papers for the next few hours, so I'm happy to accept distractions.

Anything you'd like to know about the faith? Shoot.

As long as you are a baptized Christian, you should be able to confess your sins to a priest.

Have you received Communion? If not, it's actually required that you first confess your sins before that. CCD is not really a requirement. There are several other ways to become a Catholic, including RCIA.

>As long as you are a baptized Christian, you should be able
>to confess your sins to a priest.
>
>Have you received Communion? If not, it's actually required
>that you first confess your sins before that. CCD is not
>really a requirement. There are several other ways to become a
>Catholic, including RCIA.

I changed religions several years ago after being raised Catholic..parents never made me do catechism, communion etc as I was the youngest etc etc

Im baptist now but I want catholic absolution so to speak by attending confession

though this one non denomination church we went to a few years ago, we received their version of communion (body/blood of christ)

>I changed religions several years ago after being raised
>Catholic..parents never made me do catechism, communion etc as
>I was the youngest etc etc
>
>Im baptist now but I want catholi absolution so to seapk by
>attending confession
>
>though this one non denomination church we went to a few years
>ago, we received their version of communion (body/blood of
>christ)

Are you saying you want to receive absolution, but continue as a member of the non-Catholic church?

In Catholic tradition, your baptism is perfectly valid, but you would likely need to reconcile yourself with the church in a more formalized way in order to receive the rest of the sacraments (Eucharist, Confession, Confirmation).

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time."

and now I'm a non-believer.

I went to a catholic church for the first time a few years ago for a baptism...

That shit feels like a cult.

No question. But goddamn... with the costumes and the candles and the chanting... I was weirded out.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

It's a highly reverent affair, given that we believe we are in the real presence of the Lord. The "chanting" is a fairly common tradition in cultures virtually worldwide. I guess the whole thing could be a culture shock, but it's really a beautiful affair, and especially comforting to those who are suffering.

When you say non-believer, do you mean you are an atheist?

>When you say non-believer, do you mean you are an atheist?
>
>

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

>
>>When you say non-believer, do you mean you are an atheist?
>>
>>
>


That Goku in your avi? We have some common ground, if so.

Afroku.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

July 31st is the Jesuit leader's day.

(Though the other St. Ignatius--of Antioch--is one of my favorites as well)

Also, what up Janey?

who receives it?

what is required?

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

>who receives it?
>what is required?

It all depends on the state of your soul at death. If you die in a state of grace, you are assured heaven (perhaps after a stint in purgatory). If you die in a state of rebellion against God (that is, mortal sin), you are not.

That said, we tend not to speculate on the eternal soul of specific individuals, outside of sainthood.

There is no knowledge to be sought in the grave (to paraphrase)

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

Just want to get an idea of context before I answer.

until the resurrection of the dead all deceased souls are no longer living in any form.

“David… is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.” “For David did not ascend into the heavens” Acts 2:29,34

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>until the resurrection of the dead all deceased souls are no
>longer living in any form.
>
> “David… is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us
>to this day.” “For David did not ascend into the
>heavens” Acts 2:29,34

The context of that verse is Peter discussing Jesus as Messiah, and not David (who has not died and gone to heaven--as Jesus has not yet been resurrected), pointing back to Psalm 110.

I hate to simply swap Bible verses, because it never leads anywhere, so I offer these not as proof Catholics are correct, but just that it is not as bright and clear as you say:


St. Paul (2 Cor 5):
"For we know that if our earthly dwelling, a tent, should be destroyed, we have a building from God, a dwelling not made with hands, eternal in heaven.

For in this tent we groan, longing to be further clothed with our heavenly habitation

if indeed, when we have taken it off, we shall not be found naked.

For while we are in this tent we groan and are weighed down, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life."

Jesus said to the thief on the cross, "This day you will be with me in paradise."


Also, Jesus himself descended to the land of the dead to preach the Gospel to them. How would he do this if they were devoid of consciousness?

Jesus said to the thief on the cross, "This day you will be with me in paradise." Is a null/void state paradise? Kind of a strange way to refer to it.

according to Apocryphal texts his spirit would live without the body just on general principal. Man is earthly in spirit and in body so for us there can be no continued life after death. Our spirits are not eternal. The thief next to Jesus did not enter heaven, but his place in heaven was guaranteed that day.

If Jesus has gone to prepare a place for believers to be with him how could the thief be in a heaven that has yet to be finished?

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

Meaning, on judgement day he will enter into paradise i.e. his entry is accredited to him just as a believers good deeds are credited as good due to belief in Christ. The thief however died and is resting just as David and all men do with the exception perhaps being Enoch and Elijah.

We both agree regarding to whom Jesus was speaking, but disagree on when the reward was given.

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

Not "works of the Law" as mentioned by Paul (which Catholicism interprets as "following rules")

But charitable works done of ones own initiative, outside of the mandate of rule

The Catholic interpretation is that Paul's "faith" is an active faith that brings forth works naturally, and that James's "works" are the visible evidence of a living faith.

Apocatastasis, made famous by Origen of Alexandria (who is simultaneously considered a great father of the Church and a heretic, for other reasons than this) is the belief that ultimately in the end, all creation, all souls, etc will be redeemed, and that hell won't be a truly permanent state for anyone.

The official position of The Catholic Church is that it is possible, and we may harbor legitimate hope for it (as several saints did), but it cannot be taught as a truth, since nobody knows for sure. Similarly, a Catholic can disagree with apocatastasis (as most people do), but are not supposed to teach that it's definitely impossible. This is consistent with the policy of the Church that, while many people have been declared to definitely be in Heaven, not a single person has ever been declared to definitely be damned. There is always the hope of God's infinite grace and mercy to come through and we cannot assign definite limits to that.

Many everyday Catholics and even some clergy wrongly assume its a heresy, but its not.

Origen was considered a heretic for other reasons, such as his teaching of the pre-existence of souls, etc.

Another note: Apocatastasis is commonly conflated with universalism, but there are nuanced differences, and if I'm not mistaken, i think the main one is that apocatastasis better accounts for the issue of free will.

Had no idea that Apocatastasis was not universally condemned. I've got something new to study up on. Thanks!

.

As a background, I've been catechized, christened & confirmed but now I am heathen.

>As a background, I've been catechized, christened & confirmed
>but now I am heathen.
>

They're grossly misunderstood. Indulgences are first of all quite rare, and secondly, are only a glorified form of penance to work off temporal punishment (not mortal sin).

To be fair, clergy have abused this in the past.

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

>

as a vengeful, angry & agressive God (+ there's one genocide after the other)

and the New Testament as a loving, nurturing & peaceful God
(even though God let them have Jesus)

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

>
>as a vengeful, angry & agressive God (+ there's one genocide
>after the other)
>
>and the New Testament as a loving, nurturing & peaceful God
>(even though God let them have Jesus)
>
>

Well, the New Testament is easier to relate to, but it's so steeped in the traditions of the Old, that it doesn't really make sense to separate them.

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>
No. Catholics do not believe that the Pope is "God on Earth".

We believe he's the vicar of Christ, as established by Christ himself according to Scripture.

So going with Vicar of Christ as meaning an earthly representation of Christ on earth-- how does the Pope reflect Christ in an earthly fashion?

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

Yep. Also, "whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 18:18

>So going with Vicar of Christ as meaning an earthly
>representation of Christ on earth-- how does the Pope reflect
>Christ in an earthly fashion?

Meaning he is his earthly representative. The Church is the body of Christ, and he is its leader until Christ's return.

But he is a human being with a human soul, of course. He is a sinner like everyone else.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful." "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."

894 "The bishops, as vicars and legates of Christ, govern the particular Churches assigned to them by their counsels, exhortations, and example, but over and above that also by the authority and sacred power" which indeed they ought to exercise so as to edify, in the spirit of service which is that of their Master.

Upon which His church will be built

This piece of scripture is a large part of the aplit between Orthodoxy and Catholicism

This is attributable to the Orthodoxy's echaltation of the Greek language. In greek scriptures, Jesus named him Petros, which means stone in Greek but without any connotation of foundational primacy. So Orthodoxy put the Bishop of Alexandria on the same level as the Bishop of Rome.

However Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Greek, and Kepha does indicate foundational primacy.

Ive never heard that before

Conceived without original sin (ie-the Immaculate Conception), and the greatest of all the saints.

Body and soul

Also to add on for anyone else, Catholics do NOT pray to Mary. They petition Mary to pray for *them* on the their behalf.

As stated in the NT. Also where is written that Mary ascended into the heavens? In the case of Jesus the bible states it was a largely witnessed event-- what are the events around Mary's?

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

It isn't written in scripture.

Luckily for us Catholics, we don't subscribe to sola scriptura.

Hebrews 4:14-16

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

When combined with Jesus' own words regarding him knocking at the door it seems to suggest no prayer intermediary is needed.

but yeah Solo Scriptura-- that's why there is such a thing as the Pope having the power to condemn souls right?

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>but yeah Solo Scriptura-- that's why there is such a thing as
>the Pope having the power to condemn souls right?

The Pope does not condemn souls.

He challenged the power of the Church to excommunicate its members, writing that only God could sever spiritual communion.

see also (from Luther re: indulgences)

"If the pope does have the power to release anyone from purgatory, why in the name of love does he not abolish purgatory by letting everyone out?"

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

Popes have been known to abuse their seat of power. Maybe that's what he was railing against.

the concept of God's Love (and the Trinity is related to this) is that of Love being shared among multiple persons.

We're all family.

Mary is Jesus' Mother, and also our Blessed Mother...The saints are our brothers and sisters, etc.

We could just talk solely to God and God can do everything Himself, but as Love is best when shared among His Children, and since there is fulfillment in participation, the fullness of Joy and Love is for His children to be involved in blessings and communion and communication. Family.

So, like, asking St Anthony to help you find a lost item isn't worshiping St Anthony, it's engaging your kin in Heaven who wants to participate in God's love for you.

Catholics reserve WORSHIP for God (father, son, holy spirit), ask sains and Mary to pray on our behalf, but also will communicate with them, show them love, and ask them for help too. Because we believe in the COMMUNION of Saints...not a bunch of isolated nodes connected to God but not each other.

That God implemented things in a very deliberate way, and he did it for our benefit. Sure, we can go directly to Jesus. Blessed Mary and the other saints are not God, and cannot answer prayers in that sense, but they can hear our prayers, and they can intercede for us.

If you say "who needs 'em?", well, I guess you can also say "Why did Jesus have to die on the cross?" Theoretically, God could've saved us from original sin in any number of ways. So why become man, suffer, die, and resurrect?

Because *we* needed it.

Jesus said "who is my mother?"

I get it though-- no belief in Solo Scriptura which means anything can be added to the lexicon right?

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>Jesus said "who is my mother?"
>
>I get it though-- no belief in Solo Scriptura which means
>anything can be added to the lexicon right?

No, not anything. It's actually quite difficult!

?

__

fairweather

My church is pretty mixed, and our priests are white, black, and Filipino.

between the ways Catholics of different nationalities celebrate?
I feel a huge difference between say Latino Catholics and Anglo/American Catholics.
The vibe during Mass
The way we celebrate certain holidays.

here for dis.

>between the ways Catholics of different nationalities
>celebrate?
>I feel a huge difference between say Latino Catholics and
>Anglo/American Catholics.
>The vibe during Mass
>The way we celebrate certain holidays.
>

I'm Italian/Hispanic, and live in a very mixed neighborhood. Any examples of differences that you're thinking of?

The differences have always been there, and express that The Church takes its universality seriously.

I've moved a lot and have been to a ton of different parishes. The variety of worship life you can have while sticking the script, rite-wise, is fascinating. My favorite was attending the Tridentine low rite at a mostly Polish church in Chicago. It was 7:30 in the morning. Nobody talked to me because they didn't speak English, and all you heard was the Latin mumbling at the front of the church, whooshing of vestments, and the quiet shuffling feet of people in line for confession - which was done during Mass since nobody could hear what the priest was saying anyhow.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

>

advocate contraceptive use
accept homosexuality as a reality of life
allow priests to have families

Those 3 things are the last things standing between me and whole hearted aupport for the Church and its "agenda"

My faith is gone forever, but Catholicism will always have a place in my heart from my upbringing. Those reforms above are the final pieces toward resuming earthly support for the Church.

The Catholic take on these issues don't really fit with modern society, and many, many Catholics take these issues as their only ones, often overlooking charity (in terms of $ and respect), Christ's love, etc.

>advocate contraceptive use
>accept homosexuality as a reality of life
>allow priests to have families
>
>Those 3 things are the last things standing between me and
>whole hearted aupport for the Church and its "agenda"
>

The problem is--if they reverse course on these positions, they are no longer the Catholic Church. They're not one-off issues; they're embedded in a larger consistent context of chastity as a whole.

Contraceptive use implies either pre-marital sex, or marital sex without embracing the possibility of life.

Homosexuality implies sex outside of marriage as well (in the Catholic sense of "marriage"). I don't like the idea of pushing it as inherently more or less sinful than straight sex outside of marriage. Same sex attraction is really just another cross to bear, which is not to say it is evil. We all have crosses to bear, but it does not make us bad people.

Priestly chastity is a whole other issue. It's little "t" tradition and big "T" Tradition, which I don't have time to get into right now, but you seem to know the ins and outs.

>The problem is--if they reverse course on these positions,
>they are no longer the Catholic Church. They're not one-off
>issues; they're embedded in a larger consistent context of
>chastity as a whole.
>
>Contraceptive use implies either pre-marital sex, or marital
>sex without embracing the possibility of life.

Right. But keeping in mind that all people are sinners, this is a health care practice that can save lives. How the Church can maintain the inevitability of sin without recognizing that contraceptive education can save lives seems paradoxical.

> Homosexuality implies sex outside of marriage as well (in the
>Catholic sense of "marriage"). I don't like the idea of
>pushing it as inherently more or less sinful than straight sex
>outside of marriage. Same sex attraction is really just
>another cross to bear, which is not to say it is evil. We all
>have crosses to bear, but it does not make us bad people.

Recognizing gay marriages as valid within the Church solves that problem. That is the specific reform in my mind. And all it takes is a few words from the Pope to make it happen.

>Priestly chastity is a whole other issue. It's little "t"
>tradition and big "T" Tradition, which I don't have time to
>get into right now, but you seem to know the ins and outs.

>Right. But keeping in mind that all people are sinners, this
>is a health care practice that can save lives. How the Church
>can maintain the inevitability of sin without recognizing that
>contraceptive education can save lives seems paradoxical.

I believe Pope Benedict said something along the lines of condom use as disease prevention being a good first step. That innocuous comment turned into a firestorm, but he was not revising Catholic teaching. Chastity is always best. The acceptance of life over death I'd always best. It's not in his power to change sin, but he understood that education needs to come first, and perhaps there is a transitional period.

>

>
>Recognizing gay marriages as valid within the Church solves
>that problem. That is the specific reform in my mind. And
>all it takes is a few words from the Pope to make it happen.

This isn't true. Marriage is defined in a very specific way, and the creation of children is central to that definition. It's not as if the Pope just infallibly speaks about things day in and day out. It almost never happens!

Until then I will stick with Ifa (its the prototype anyway)


*****************************************
huh

going to mass. I gotta find out what type they're using because that shit is incredible.

Also...what's your confirmation name?

>going to mass. I gotta find out what type they're using
>because that shit is incredible.
>
>Also...what's your confirmation name?

Missed this question earlier.

Confirmation name is Ignatius.

somebody had to say it.

You ready to renounce your citizenship over some of the terrible shit we're responsible for?

Catholic tithes go to molesting kids, your tax dollars go towards blowing them up.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

The short answer: It's a horrific tragedy, but human sin doesn't make Christ's institution any less valid.

or better that a rock be tied around their neck and the offender thrown into the sea. So when looking at the Churches handling of such offenses does it not seem as if the church is almost permissive of such acts?

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>or better that a rock be tied around their neck and the
>offender thrown into the sea. So when looking at the Churches
>handling of such offenses does it not seem as if the church is
>almost permissive of such acts?

But you must not confuse the Church, the bride of Christ, with its very human inhabitants.

not so much a question as a little bit of refreshment from the Vatican.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIieYzf2efw

I respect anybody who is self aware enough not to take themselves or their shit too seriously.