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Subject: "As a white man, I just experineced pure, unadultered racsm for the first..." Previous topic | Next topic
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sat Feb-28-15 10:12 PM

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"As a white man, I just experineced pure, unadultered racsm for the first..."


          

This ia Sweden-a "good" country. I was in the line of a club with my zambian gf, her aunt, her sister and a friend from the same country. We were denied entrance to a club due to being too "drunk", this in spite of half the company being totally sober and the rest haven drank one beer. Needless to say, they let in people WAY more drunk before and after...

I feel SO pissed off right now. Is there anything I can do legally (I guess not, the bouncer can just say that he thought we were too drunk) or should I just "deal" with it? It's so fucking shocking to me...

I mean, I know sweden is racist but this was just too blatant and "on the nose", otherwise, it's usually more subtle...

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I always wonder what pulling out the phone cam will do
Feb 28th 2015
1
Sucker punch the bouncer and stuff him inside your bass drum
Feb 28th 2015
2
Oh, I took pictures of the bouncer...
Feb 28th 2015
3
is it really worth getting in a club that takes that much effort?
Feb 28th 2015
4
      that's how i feel about any kind of hassle at a club, bar, restraurant
Mar 01st 2015
9
      ^ this. I've about-faced so fast once I saw what time it was
Mar 02nd 2015
47
      It's worth trying to hold that bouncer to account.
Mar 01st 2015
41
      This is the answer...
Mar 02nd 2015
49
           but in addition
Mar 02nd 2015
76
You witnessed it, they went through it
Mar 01st 2015
5
*church organ chords*
Mar 01st 2015
6
OUCH! Talk about White privilege.
Mar 01st 2015
7
Not really.
Mar 01st 2015
8
No he's not
Mar 01st 2015
12
      no (more) snark but why do you feel that is such a key distinction?
Mar 01st 2015
13
      ever been in a suck situation and then once you figured out an out felt ...
Mar 01st 2015
21
      Come on!!!
Mar 01st 2015
19
      wait, what?
Mar 01st 2015
23
           Yes, I have never experienced it before...
Mar 01st 2015
24
                i'm not even mad, that's amazing
Mar 01st 2015
37
      Doesn't matter what you think, if he felt shitty about it, he felt shitt...
Mar 01st 2015
38
TRUMP CARD! PA-OW! WE SUFFER! GOLD MEDALISTS OF MISERY
Mar 01st 2015
10
lol
Mar 01st 2015
34
Lol
Mar 01st 2015
36
i lol'd. loudly.
Mar 02nd 2015
43
*dead*
Mar 01st 2015
11
Experienced, witnessed, whatever...
Mar 01st 2015
17
lol I'm not denying that u felt a way about it
Mar 01st 2015
28
      OK, english isn't my first language...
Mar 01st 2015
29
^^^^yerp, but still foul^^^^
Mar 01st 2015
30
the TOKPRest of TOKPRs
Mar 01st 2015
35
almost. if only he could have worked in perms and washcloths.
Mar 02nd 2015
82
      LMAO @ washcloths
Mar 02nd 2015
85
nah, if he was denied entrance he went through it as well...
Mar 01st 2015
40
if he can go back in line and then
Mar 01st 2015
42
      what if his wife can do the same?
Mar 02nd 2015
50
           If the bouncer's denying certain folks, it's usually ordered by the owne...
Mar 02nd 2015
51
                I think we were too many...
Mar 02nd 2015
52
                nah, clubs don't turn away 3 women unless....
Mar 02nd 2015
54
                     This is NOT a hip, cool club...
Mar 02nd 2015
55
                          then you experienced it...
Mar 02nd 2015
59
                One time a bouncer made us tuck our SWEATERS in...
Mar 02nd 2015
53
                     Club Exit in NYC back in the early 00s, dude said "no wallabies..."
Mar 02nd 2015
61
                     Forgot the most blatant one: Came to the club in a wife beater...
Mar 02nd 2015
62
                          man that's the worst...
Mar 02nd 2015
71
^^^`
Mar 02nd 2015
57
Also I thought Sweden was fairly racist/nationalist
Mar 01st 2015
14
RE: Also I thought Sweden was fairly racist/nationalist
Mar 01st 2015
16
      Pretty much...
Mar 01st 2015
20
      yeah i have been to sweden and known a lot of swedes elsewhere.
Mar 02nd 2015
44
i think getting to save first racism experience for adulthood
Mar 01st 2015
15
For the record...
Mar 01st 2015
18
lol, don't let these dudes get to you
Mar 01st 2015
22
      Well, I get this:
Mar 01st 2015
26
So uh...what's up with all the rapes in Sweden?
Mar 01st 2015
25
I'm so tired of the whole euro-xenophobia thing...
Mar 01st 2015
27
now imagine every white person you see...thinks like that
Mar 01st 2015
31
As a father of two...
Mar 01st 2015
32
      That's really the psychologically oppressive part.
Mar 01st 2015
33
being denied entrance to a club? that sounds like a typical club night i...
Mar 01st 2015
39
The preemptive denials are always the funniest...
Mar 02nd 2015
48
white ppl are funny...
Mar 02nd 2015
45
for the first time?
Mar 02nd 2015
46
Sidebar: So people getting denied entrance into the club is a real thing...
Mar 02nd 2015
56
In real cities... yes, it's a thing.
Mar 02nd 2015
58
Atlanta isn't a real city?
Mar 02nd 2015
60
      LOL, nah I'm messing with you for trying to stunt
Mar 02nd 2015
72
           I really wasn't, im thinking that they're turning away broads too
Mar 02nd 2015
83
yes
Mar 02nd 2015
63
i'm usually on a list so it never happens to me either but
Mar 02nd 2015
66
Have you ever been to Vegas?
Mar 02nd 2015
64
a couple of my lady friends waited at Tao for an hour once
Mar 02nd 2015
68
no
Mar 02nd 2015
84
i went to this club in berlin called berghain
Mar 02nd 2015
65
did you get in???
Mar 02nd 2015
67
      dont leave me hanging crash!
Mar 02nd 2015
69
           got in!
Mar 02nd 2015
70
                did you go into Panotama Bar?
Mar 02nd 2015
78
you're a cute female with big ass titties, of course they let YOU in
Mar 02nd 2015
75
duh.
Mar 02nd 2015
77
*pats, uh... head. yeah, your head*
Mar 02nd 2015
81
lol soon as I read the title I knew this wasn't gonna go well for you, J...
Mar 02nd 2015
73
so much awesome in one post
Mar 02nd 2015
74
hrm
Mar 02nd 2015
79
y'all motherfuckers will sip it, any flavor.
Mar 02nd 2015
80

Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Sat Feb-28-15 10:50 PM

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1. "I always wonder what pulling out the phone cam will do"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Bring it out, calmly state the facts about how much every one has had to drink, and enquire how he could come to the conclusion that anyone is too drunk. Then take video of the other patrons getting into the bar and calmly ask if race is a factor.

Or perhaps have everyone in the group get the phone cameras out and have one person start asking the questions, so the bouncer knows he can't just shut one camera down and be done with it. If someone can ask the questions calmly, with the underlying threat to post on social media with the club's name all in the details, then you might get the result you want, one way or another.

Just IMO though.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sat Feb-28-15 11:03 PM

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2. "Sucker punch the bouncer and stuff him inside your bass drum"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sat Feb-28-15 11:16 PM

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3. "Oh, I took pictures of the bouncer..."
In response to Reply # 1


          

My mistake in retrospect I guess was that I didb't film the whole scenario but how could I possibly know, you know? It's only when you get to that point that you wished youv'e filmed the entire shit.

On the other hand, the *bouncer*/club might have filmed the aunt getting REALLY angry and yelling "Racist" at them and-even worse-the little sis throwing punches (seriously, she was so was SO fucking badass but that won't help in retrospect; if anyone post a link of *that*, it will look like us being wrong, LOL!!!).

You also had me *demanding* to see how sober people were inside the club but as I said, that didn't help in spite of finding 8 superdrunk people within a minute-I never counted on the4 whole "Let's go in and see if you find people more drunk than Y'all inside"-thing because I *Already* knew that we were practically sober so that was just like whatever...

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85056 posts
Sat Feb-28-15 11:31 PM

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4. "is it really worth getting in a club that takes that much effort?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

i'd take my business elsewhere and still blast them niggas out on social media.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 02:19 AM

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9. "that's how i feel about any kind of hassle at a club, bar, restraurant"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

they dont want my money, then fuck 'em. i am not a scene fucker and always have a plan b

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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8-bit
Member since Jan 12th 2010
10841 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 08:35 AM

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47. "^ this. I've about-faced so fast once I saw what time it was"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

The only thing that really bothered me was wasting my time on a spot like that.

---
http://twitter.com/logicalhood
http://instagram.com/hoodlogic

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 10:50 PM

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41. "It's worth trying to hold that bouncer to account."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>i'd take my business elsewhere and still blast them niggas
>out on social media.

Just IMO though.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 08:41 AM

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49. "This is the answer..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

>i'd take my business elsewhere and still blast them niggas
>out on social media.

^^^^ best way to get a response/change/ANYTHING out of a business is to blast them on social media. This goes for dealing with customer service on the phone, bad delivery service, or a situation like this. I'd go to their Facebook page, Twitter, etc...and detail the entire story as calmly as you can while still being sure to make it clear as day how inappropriate the bouncer's behavior was on behalf of the club. You might even get yourself a nite of open bar at the joint or something. Haha.

But - being that you didn't think to film it at the time, this is the best way to adversely affect them after the fact, IMO.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 01:06 PM

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76. "but in addition "
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

you film the incident
i think it would have resonated with people if done the right way
and people might start looking harsher at clubs who do business in such a way
thats classic NY crap as well btw

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 01:18 AM

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5. "You witnessed it, they went through it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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Castro
Charter member
50745 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 01:21 AM

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6. "*church organ chords*"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 01:30 AM

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7. "OUCH! Talk about White privilege."
In response to Reply # 5


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 02:16 AM

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8. "Not really. "
In response to Reply # 5


          

He was denied entry as well.

If a white guy isn't promoted because his wife or gf is black or is denied housing because he has a mixed race family, then he is experiencing racism.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 02:27 AM

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12. "No he's not "
In response to Reply # 8
Sun Mar-01-15 02:28 AM by Heinz

  

          

He's experiencing a so called "consequence for his choice" by the racist. In both experiences,he was in involved in the matter but he wasn't denied something because of his skin colour it, was for the social choice that the bigot felt he made. The difference is he was pissed off, when you feel racism it hurts. But regardless it was shitty, I just don't think he experienced racsim himself.
____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 02:35 AM

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13. "no (more) snark but why do you feel that is such a key distinction?"
In response to Reply # 12
Sun Mar-01-15 02:36 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

i do think the "pure, unadulterated" part is not accurate if you're talking about how he experienced it, but i think he was referring more to the objective nature of the bigotry itself than his experience thereof.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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nonaime
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21. "ever been in a suck situation and then once you figured out an out felt ..."
In response to Reply # 13


          

Even while you were in the suck situation, just knowing that you had a way out made you feel a lot better (not necessarily saying you felt good, just better) than when you thought you were stuck.

~~~~~~~~
A bad Samaritan averaging above average men (c) DOOM

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 05:35 AM

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19. "Come on!!!"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Was I hurt because *I* didn't get in? Of course not.

However, there actually exist such things as sympathy, compassion etc. And since we are dealing with a person I have lived together with for 6 years, have two children with etc., how can I not feel a little bit hurt?

  

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theprofessional
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23. "wait, what?"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>a person I have
>lived together with for 6 years, have two children with etc.,

you've had a black girlfriend for six years, you have two black children, and not getting into a club is the first time you've experienced racism?

h-h... have you been living on the moon?

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 06:00 AM

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24. "Yes, I have never experienced it before..."
In response to Reply # 23


          

Neither has my gf... Maybe that's the worst part, she was so shocked by this because she thought sweden was good...

  

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theprofessional
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37. "i'm not even mad, that's amazing"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

an interracial couple with two biracial babies going six years without experiencing racism... i mean, you guys should apply for the guinness book of world records or something.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ShinobiShaw
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38. "Doesn't matter what you think, if he felt shitty about it, he felt shitt..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Call it whatever you want, he was put in a racist situation by people he didn't know, not his friends and their family.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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10. "TRUMP CARD! PA-OW! WE SUFFER! GOLD MEDALISTS OF MISERY"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35245 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 07:42 AM

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34. "lol"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

  

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Mgmt
Member since Feb 17th 2005
21496 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 09:47 AM

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36. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>

  

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guru0509
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Mon Mar-02-15 12:53 AM

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43. "i lol'd. loudly."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85056 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 02:26 AM

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11. "*dead*"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 05:06 AM

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17. "Experienced, witnessed, whatever..."
In response to Reply # 5


          

I was there with them, *we* were denied entrance for whatever reason that was CLEARLY not drunkenness, what else is there to say?

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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28. "lol I'm not denying that u felt a way about it "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Especially since it happened to someone you love and other people who were there. I get it. But YOU didn't get let into the club because you were white. I'm not trying to be a dick I'm just going by your choice of words that I don't agree with. You were'nt on the receiving end of racism you were collateral damage. If you were with a bunch of people and something happened where some of the others u were with died that doesn't make you a victim that makes you a witness. That's all I'm saying lol
____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 06:59 AM

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29. "OK, english isn't my first language..."
In response to Reply # 28


          

I was trying to express something (and BTW, my gf is STILL sad and shocked about this because it has never happened before to her here and it obviously didn't happen to her in Zambia either where she has spent most of her life), I can understand if my "experience" looks silly when people are getting shot by the police on the basis of their skin-colour in the US...

And I'm not going to pretend that I *truly* felt it but I kind of did, you know?

Anyway, how should I have expressed myself? It was very pure and unadultered, how can you deny that?

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11819 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 07:20 AM

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30. "^^^^yerp, but still foul^^^^"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35245 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 07:43 AM

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35. "the TOKPRest of TOKPRs"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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poetx
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Mon Mar-02-15 01:26 PM

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82. "almost. if only he could have worked in perms and washcloths. "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

i'd have had a TOKPRgasm on the spot. it did jump a little, tho.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Mon Mar-02-15 01:48 PM

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85. "LMAO @ washcloths"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 03:21 PM

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40. "nah, if he was denied entrance he went through it as well... "
In response to Reply # 5


          

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11819 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 10:52 PM

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42. "if he can go back in line and then"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Later be admitted on his own merit then no not the same.

But I respect him for showing empathy at all in that situation.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Mar-02-15 08:42 AM

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50. "what if his wife can do the same? "
In response to Reply # 42


          

maybe the bouncer doesnt like interracial couples...

maybe the aunt that was with them was old as shit..

maybe dude has a punchable face....

point is, he experienced being denied just like his wife so he experienced something. Just not sure it was blatant racism because clubs usually have assholes at the door denying acces for a variety of reasons.

club access is THE worst example one can use to prove racism exist.

  

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8-bit
Member since Jan 12th 2010
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51. "If the bouncer's denying certain folks, it's usually ordered by the owne..."
In response to Reply # 50
Mon Mar-02-15 08:50 AM by 8-bit

  

          

The assholishness, won't stop at the door probably. I've seen a lot of tactics used to discourage black folks from coming to certain establishments, and the doorman is just one of them. Ever been in a spot with a grip of black folks, and suddenly the hip hop (that was on 5) gets changed to punk rock that's on 11? It's because the ratio got a little "too dark."

---
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http://instagram.com/hoodlogic

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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52. "I think we were too many..."
In response to Reply # 51


          

I don't think there was a single other black person in the line and the amount in the club could probably be counted on one hand. Then you had four at the same time, and yes, it was probably ordered from above.

  

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legsdiamond
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54. "nah, clubs don't turn away 3 women unless...."
In response to Reply # 52


          

how old was the aunt?

how often do you go there?

Some clubs are shallow as shit... and I'm not saying you weren't turned away because they were black. They was prolly the case and it's fucked up you got a taste of what the average Black person has dealt with ALL their life.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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55. "This is NOT a hip, cool club..."
In response to Reply # 54


          

It's a place where you'll find people of all ages and in various degress of drunkenness etc. I hvwen't been there in many years and the only reason we went there while being in the city was simply because they had the shortest line

Either way, my gf's aunt is 45, she looks much younger but it doesn't matter and she wasn't in the front either. We were in the line for 30 minutes, they did not turn anyone down; not people who were older, younger, *significally* drunker. Nope, everyone got in until it was our turn...

  

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legsdiamond
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59. "then you experienced it... "
In response to Reply # 55


          

it sucks but it happens.

  

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legsdiamond
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53. "One time a bouncer made us tuck our SWEATERS in..."
In response to Reply # 51


          

to get into this spot. I normally wouldn't do it but it was penny beer night at Tobacco Club in Richmond back in the day and we were meeting people who were already inside.

Door man are THE WORST at clubs.

  

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8-bit
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61. "Club Exit in NYC back in the early 00s, dude said "no wallabies...""
In response to Reply # 53
Mon Mar-02-15 10:32 AM by 8-bit

  

          

...after we waited in that long-ass line. We already knew how they do us, so we avoided wearing:

- timbs
- sneakers
- jeans
- shirts without buttons
- hats

Dude really said wallabies weren't real shoes, they were like sneakers. That was some Dhalsim-like reaching for a reason dude did right there. After being pissed for a minute, we went to a club around the corner. I think Speeed or the Cheetah Club.

---
http://twitter.com/logicalhood
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8-bit
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62. "Forgot the most blatant one: Came to the club in a wife beater..."
In response to Reply # 53
Mon Mar-02-15 10:38 AM by 8-bit

  

          

...of course the bouncer told me I couldn't get in like that. It was hot that day, like 95+ hot, so I had to try. Predicting this, I had a fresh button down in my car around the corner. Told the bouncer "ok" went to the whip and 10 minute later I was back. Bouncer said "cool" and as I was walking in this drunk white dude came stumbling out to smoke a cigarette... wearing a wife beater. In slow-motion, the bouncer looked at him, looked back at me, gave a deep sigh and said "sorry man." lol, I knew it wasn't his call at the door (I worked security too), so it was more amusing than anything.

---
http://twitter.com/logicalhood
http://instagram.com/hoodlogic

  

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legsdiamond
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71. "man that's the worst... "
In response to Reply # 62


          

bouncer tells you "no sneakers" and then you see a white kid walk out in sneakers or flip flops"

  

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teefiveten
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57. "^^^`"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

.

*************************************
like.me
http://tinyurl.com/3z8486u

"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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14. "Also I thought Sweden was fairly racist/nationalist"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Mar-01-15 02:39 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

They do not seem to appreciate Muslims and fear their culture gaining a foothold there. I found their attitude toward blacks to be one of fascination/novelty, but I bet when it gets deeper there is plenty of xenophobia also. Part of it is nationalism or a strong cultural identity or other things that are potentially commendable, but to me it crossed the line at times. I will say that they have their neighbors' backs, despite some rivalry they will go to the mat for Finland, Norway and Denmark if it comes down to it.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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16. "RE: Also I thought Sweden was fairly racist/nationalist"
In response to Reply # 14


          

>They do not seem to appreciate Muslims and fear their culture
>gaining a foothold there.

nah, most don't think so i believe. sweden is one of the countries that receives most middle eastern refugees and they have a totally different culture so of course there is going to be some culture shock (i'm not sure thats how you say it).

I found their attitude toward blacks
>to be one of fascination/novelty, but I bet when it gets
>deeper there is plenty of xenophobia also.

so you've been in sweden? i think if you're african american there is a fascination/novelty about you but if you're somali, ethiopian, gambian etc it's a different ballgame. and xenophobia exist everywhere.

Part of it is
>nationalism or a strong cultural identity or other things that
>are potentially commendable,

yes

but to me it crossed the line at
>times.

how?

I will say that they have their neighbors' backs,
>despite some rivalry they will go to the mat for Finland,
>Norway and Denmark if it comes down to it.

i dunno about this.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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20. "Pretty much..."
In response to Reply # 16


          

>i think if you're african american
>there is a fascination/novelty about you but if you're somali,
>ethiopian, gambian etc it's a different ballgame. and
>xenophobia exist everywhere.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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44. "yeah i have been to sweden and known a lot of swedes elsewhere."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>nah, most don't think so i believe. sweden is one of the
>countries that receives most middle eastern refugees and they
>have a totally different culture so of course there is going
>to be some culture shock (i'm not sure thats how you say it).

i don't mean that it's like france or something but i do mean that a mosque being built is cause for some hubub, even among "progressive" minded people and that they think assimilation should come first and acceptance later.


>so you've been in sweden? i think if you're african american
>there is a fascination/novelty about you but if you're somali,
>ethiopian, gambian etc it's a different ballgame. and
>xenophobia exist everywhere.

yeah i went a few years ago with my cousin's wife. i'm good friends with her and her family plus a big group of swedes i lived near in colombia. i work with a lot of swedes, too (hockey is a big deal there). i only really encountered them interacting with africans, i didn't run into any african-americans in sweden except for, bizarrely, krs one (he was doing a show in stockholm).

like i noticed the africans that lived there all had their little blonde girlfriends and generally seemed relaxed, but i could sense a little "otherness" vibes from the swedes.

>Part of it is
>>nationalism or a strong cultural identity or other things
>that
>>are potentially commendable,
>
>yes

as far as the line crossing and neighborly thing, well i was talking to people about for example finland and while there was some ribbing or whatever, people were quick to point out that swedes voluntarily defended the finns against russia and so forth.

on the line-crossing thing, it was more so attitudes toward muslims in the way that yes, they felt they like everyone else should be receptive to swedish culture and history, but they seemed to feel the need to really emphasize this at seemingly inappropriate times (like whenever the word "muslim" was uttered, really).

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dba_BAD
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15. "i think getting to save first racism experience for adulthood"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and then afterall it ends up being club blocking by smallminded bouncer

is kinda racist

somewhow

but you not in amerikka so iono what do i know

anyway jokes aside that shit is hella maddening i feel you

__

fairweather

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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18. "For the record..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don't want the word "experienced" to be interpreted as me saying some dumb, "Now I know what it's like"-shit; that was SO not the point, maybe I should have choosed a different word.

And I have of course *witnessed* racism numerous times but for me personally, this was the first *experience*. And no, I do not feel sorry for myself for not getting in to a shitty club, I feel sorry for my gf, her aunt, little sister and friend for being so blatantly, obviously targeted...

  

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theprofessional
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22. "lol, don't let these dudes get to you"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

someone you care about got negatively affected by racism, and for a brief moment in time you felt the struggle. the fact that you got caught in the crossfire was secondary to the empathy you felt for your girl. so, yeah, you experienced it. nothing wrong with saying that.

i think what's actually getting people stuck is you referring to not getting in a club as "pure unadulterated racism" when on a scale from one to lynching, it's like a three. it's inconvenience racism. wait till you graduate to the real stuff.

but like you said, you're a white guy who hasn't really had any exposure to this life, so stuff that has you ready to march on washington is just another tuesday for us.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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26. "Well, I get this:"
In response to Reply # 22


          


>but like you said, you're a white guy who hasn't really had
>any exposure to this life, so stuff that has you ready to
>march on washington is just another tuesday for us.

I mean, this isn't really a big deal in the grand scheme of things but I felt so fucking bad and shocked. Maybe I overreacted when writing my post but I can only be honest you know? I felt really bad about this, partially because we had been standing there for 30 minutes in the snow and then being denied entrance in such an assholish manner...

But yeah, if people want to clown, go at it. I just felt the need to vent somewhere and your typical swedish message board today would just say "Well, they shouldn't be in this country in the first place" (seriously, it is THAT bad in swedish media today;the reason is that mainstream channels refuse to acknowledge and voice the nationalism and racism that still exists very strong so the internet has become those peoples only way to make their existance felt... That's another issue though and probably not very interesting to a US OKP)

  

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Lardlad95
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25. "So uh...what's up with all the rapes in Sweden?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I keep hearing ethnic Swedes blaming it all on immigrants, but Europeans are notorious for their xenophobia.

I actually find the xenophobia kind of funny though. I'm sure a lot of Europeans don't want Africans and Middle Easterners flooding into their countries, but I'm sure most Africans and Middle Easterners weren't to keen on when Europeans showed up in their continents to set up shop a couple centuries ago.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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27. "I'm so tired of the whole euro-xenophobia thing..."
In response to Reply # 25


          

That's mainly what pissed me off about the whole "Je suis charlie"-thing as well, it's like people just used the islam thing as an excuse to vent xenophobia. It's so boring but the swedish nationalist/racist
party Sverigedemokraterna has over 10% of the votes and is actually sweden's third biggest party nowadays. It's the same all over europe with these types of political parties-just depressing and saddening, I'm just bored and tired of it, like there's no energy left to debate these type of things and the propaganda they spew...

It doesn't help that mainstream media refuse to acknowledge their existance in spite of their popularity so the internet is just full of them since it's their only channel...

  

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Binlahab
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31. "now imagine every white person you see...thinks like that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because how do you know they dont?


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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32. "As a father of two..."
In response to Reply # 31


          

...that's a really depressing thought...

  

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Lardlad95
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33. "That's really the psychologically oppressive part."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Having a sense that you're being treated unfairly but not having an actual way to prove it. You start to think you're going crazy because as an adult human you know how to pick up on social cues and you can read people's body language, but without explicit racist statements you can't prove that anyone is actually being racist towards you.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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39. "being denied entrance to a club? that sounds like a typical club night i..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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8-bit
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48. "The preemptive denials are always the funniest..."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Only time I can remember talking shit to a bouncer was this time we were just walking past his club to get to another one, and dude yelled out from way across the sidewalk "no jerseys!" (it was 1999 I think). Up until that point we never even looked in the direction of the club's doors. Since we weren't planning on going to that spot anyway, we let him have it on the slow walk-by.

---
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bibblegolf
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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45. "white ppl are funny..."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-02-15 02:57 AM by bibblegolf

  

          

... hi mom!

"The more a country produces..the richer it is...the better it should take care of it's people. - Dr. Aleida Guevara"

  

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Crash Bandacoot
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46. "for the first time?"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-02-15 07:44 AM by Crash Bandacoot

          

black girlfriend? that's amazing.

a few years ago a friend from ghana, who has now
lived in the states for past 15+ years, said that
he had never experienced racism in the states. i
knew that our genuine friendship would soon be over
after he made that revelation.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
http://instagram.com/0kayndc

"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

  

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SimplyHannah
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56. "Sidebar: So people getting denied entrance into the club is a real thing..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And im not talking about for failing to meet the dress code.

Like this is a thing? I thought they only did that in the movies.

  

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legsdiamond
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58. "In real cities... yes, it's a thing. "
In response to Reply # 56


          

  

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SimplyHannah
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60. "Atlanta isn't a real city?"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

Anyway, I ain't got the time to be frequenting places that need to decide whether I look good enough for them to take my money. Foh.

  

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legsdiamond
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72. "LOL, nah I'm messing with you for trying to stunt"
In response to Reply # 60


          


This is a guy thing.. you wouldn't understand.



















but I'm sure you knew this...

  

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SimplyHannah
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83. "I really wasn't, im thinking that they're turning away broads too "
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

For not meeting whatever their desired look is. Well atleast thats what they be doing in the movies. Here there are no requirements as long as you meet the dress code.

  

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southphillyman
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63. "yes"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

i know enough promoters i don't stand in lines the rare times i go to big clubs now days
it happens all the time though. never happened to me personally but there was two times i was in lines where they were picking ppl and i just bounced before i even got far enough to give them the opportunity to play a nigga

~~~~~~

  

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SoWhat
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66. "i'm usually on a list so it never happens to me either but"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

i regularly pass by ppl who i overhear complaining that they've waited outside for dozens of minutes if not an hour or more.

i can't see it.

fuck you.

  

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Billy Ray Valentine
Member since Jul 08th 2005
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Mon Mar-02-15 11:01 AM

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64. "Have you ever been to Vegas?"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

"when I was growin' up if we wanted a jacuzzi we had to fart in the tub!"

  

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cgonz00cc
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68. "a couple of my lady friends waited at Tao for an hour once"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

They got all the way to the front and Diddy came in out of nowhere and they turned the whole remaining line away lol

  

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SimplyHannah
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84. "no"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

And if you have to pass a looks test to get in clubs there then I ain't interested in going.

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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65. "i went to this club in berlin called berghain"
In response to Reply # 56
Mon Mar-02-15 11:21 AM by Crash Bandacoot

          

never seen shit like that before. they had cabs waiting
in a line outside the club because the majority of
people would get turned away. i noticed that if you were
alone, you are more likely to get in. and if you get in,
absolutely no picture taking.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
http://instagram.com/0kayndc

"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Mon Mar-02-15 11:24 AM

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67. "did you get in???"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

Berghain's door policy is world (in)famous

Felix Da Housecat got denied last week and went on an epic twitter rant

Thats like the mecca for house/techno heads

The bouncer is a famous in his own right. Google Sven Marquardt

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35245 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:23 PM

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69. "dont leave me hanging crash!"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

This is the most interesting personal story ive seen on okp in a loooooong time

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
10118 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:50 PM

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70. "got in!"
In response to Reply # 69
Mon Mar-02-15 12:54 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

i think that i got in because i was black, a woman, and alone. i was
zooted out of my mind by the time that i left, which was about 5 in
the morning. craziest club experience ever. definitely going back.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
http://instagram.com/0kayndc

"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35245 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 01:06 PM

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78. "did you go into Panotama Bar?"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

Ive heard that when they open the shades to let the sunrise in is a bucket list level club experience

People stay in that mug for like 30 hours from late friday night to sunday afternoon in the garden

  

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Billy Ray Valentine
Member since Jul 08th 2005
675 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 01:04 PM

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75. "you're a cute female with big ass titties, of course they let YOU in"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

"when I was growin' up if we wanted a jacuzzi we had to fart in the tub!"

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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Mon Mar-02-15 01:06 PM

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77. "duh."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

especially when she's out w/other women.

fuck you.

  

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8-bit
Member since Jan 12th 2010
10841 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 01:15 PM

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81. "*pats, uh... head. yeah, your head*"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

---
http://twitter.com/logicalhood
http://instagram.com/hoodlogic

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:56 PM

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73. "lol soon as I read the title I knew this wasn't gonna go well for you, J..."
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Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 01:00 PM

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74. "so much awesome in one post"
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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 01:10 PM

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79. "hrm "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

kinda(more your wive's...but even then i'm not sure because if you two "haven't experience racism..." eh) want your thoughts on this


although this experience kind of confirms my suspicions on the latent racism that the rest of the world simply isn't experienced with dealing with and confronting


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/01/opinion/sunday/the-next-great-migration.html?_r=0


PARIS — AT dinner last summer with my brother-in-law, a grandson of Jews who fled Algeria for France, the conversation turned to the rash of anti-Semitic incidents plaguing the country. At such times, the question inevitably arises in the minds of many Jews: “Where could we go?” He mentioned Tel Aviv, London and New York, but the location mattered less than the reassurance that departure remained an option. He’s not alone in this thinking: 7,000 French Jews emigrated in 2014.

Over the past year, as I watched with outrage at the dizzying spate of unpunished extrajudicial police killings of black men and women across America, I’ve wondered why more black Americans don’t think similarly. Why shouldn’t more of us weigh expatriation, even if only temporary, as a viable means of securing those lofty yet elusive ideals of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Blacks leaving America in search of equality is not new. The practice dates from at least antebellum Louisiana, when free mulattoes in New Orleans sent their children to France to live in accordance with their means and not their color. It continued after World War II, when a number of black G.I.s, artists and jazzmen shared Richard Wright’s sentiment that there is “more freedom in one square block of Paris than there is in the entire United States of America.”

Today, that might sound hyperbolic — enormous gains have been made in America at every social level, and many blacks live as well as one can reasonably hope to anywhere. Yet we are consistently reminded of how tenuous this progress can be; how possible it still is to be humiliated on the front porch or cut down in Walmart by an officer who will never be held to account.

Watching what happened in Ferguson, Mo., and Staten Island and knowing that blacks are 21 times more likely than whites to be shot by the police constitute a heavy psychological tax. Freedom — and more broadly speaking, basic well-being — are relative goods. I lament that Paris can be a threatening space for Jews, Roma, Africans and Arabs, but the truth is, as a black American, I’ve never felt safer or less harassed anywhere. It’s difficult to exaggerate the existential boon of shedding one’s victimhood.

Of course there is no black Zion with a head of state urging the diaspora to return. But there have been movements for mass migration before, most notably Marcus Garvey’s early 20th-century Universal Negro Improvement Association, and its quixotic mission — based on the position that America would never grant blacks a fair shake — to forge a global black economy and create settlements for Americans in Africa by transporting blacks back to Africa by ship. W.E.B. Du Bois, a global citizen who was educated at the University of Berlin and later went into exile in Ghana, argued that Garvey’s plan to “unite Negrodom by a line of steamships was a brilliant suggestion and Garvey’s only original contribution to the race problem.” Garvey’s Black Star Line collapsed in 1921. It was a business catastrophe that swallowed many families’ savings, but it remains a potent symbol of exodus.

Continue reading the main story
A realistic program of black expatriation today would start with appreciating the huge potential of cheap flights and Internet hyperconnectivity. And it would be tempered by a healthy skepticism toward the idea of finding utopia anywhere. It would focus instead on the strength and adaptability of individuals and the social networks they can create by integrating into societies that allow black expats the status — still too often denied in America — of being treated first and foremost as Americans and not as blacks.

Consider my friend Gerard from Queens. As with many black Americans, European vacations weren’t part of his upbringing. Last year, he left New York for a new job in London. When I called him to compare impressions of life abroad, he confessed, “The race situation back home occupies so much space in your mind, even just safety-wise, I actually never fully understood what it meant to be American, and all the advantages that come with it, until now.” There are subtler satisfactions, too: “You immediately remove that affirmative action target from your back. A work visa gives you the validation that you’re good at what you do.”

Certainly not everyone can just pick up and go, nor is expatriation a panacea for all that afflicts black America. But at a time when middle-class blacks remain unemployed at twice the rate of whites, and black college graduates have the same chance of being hired as high school-educated whites, the economic case for staying put is not airtight.

Continue reading the main story
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Lived in London, Paris and Madrid for 5 years each. None are a paradise for blacks from any country. If one is the Art Director of Vogue or...
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One solution would be to increase applications by black students to foreign undergraduate and graduate programs. Years ago, I worked briefly as a consultant for Sciences-Po, one of Paris’s famed grandes écoles, encouraging American high school students and their parents to pursue an English-language education abroad. Sciences-Po was an attractive offer for anyone — a world-class degree and alumni network for less than $2,500 a year. It should have been particularly appealing to blacks since, as Bloomberg recently reported, blacks rely far more on student loans and are less likely to pay off debts after graduation. Studying abroad would sharply decrease this burden (my alma mater, Georgetown, now costs a staggering $65,000 a year), and also provide an entree into expansive new job — and marriage — markets, too.

Yet it’s a strategy that is severely underused. I don’t think I convinced a single black student to attend Sciences-Po. And even though 15 percent of American postsecondary students are black, we account for only about 5 percent of those who study abroad. This is a shame.

Many blacks dismiss expatriation as a luxury reserved for those with economic and social capital. But if “black lives matter” genuinely, then we must recognize minority individuality: Black people should pursue their own opportunities for the good life wherever they can. Yes, we hold an intrinsic stake in America and shouldn’t abandon lightly a homeland that is ours by right of birth and by dint of blood, sweat and hard labor. But if this stake remains unrecognized or unredeemable, its value is dubious.

A couple of years ago, leaving a restaurant near the Louvre, I held the door for a black man in a camel overcoat. Only as he passed did I realize it was the rapper Kanye West. Whatever one thinks of him, Mr. West has become the most prominent black American man to pursue his interests outside of America — a valuable model of blackness untethered to geography. What struck me most that night was precisely how much his demeanor resembled that of a college student on study abroad — still thrilled by the heady mix of anonymity and authority over his own identity that James Baldwin once called “the sanction, if one can accept it, to become oneself.”

A powerful way to sidestep America’s reluctance to become postracial would be for more black Americans to become postnational.

Thomas Chatterton Williams is the author of “Losing My Cool: Love, Literature and a Black Man’s Escape From the Crowd.”
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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morpheme
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Mon Mar-02-15 01:13 PM

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80. "y'all motherfuckers will sip it, any flavor. "
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