|
If that's your interpretation of the entire subject, okay, that's fine. I'm happy to hear more, but you don't seem to get the two threads of argumentation that are going on here, and to whom I was directing my statements.
What I was responding to was 1) The statement in the OP which only offered race as the factor for the lagging scores without any context and 2) The contention by Shaun the Don that we're only calling them racist because they're pointing out a harsh truth.
To sum up how I responded to both of these statements:
I agree there is a problem, and no I don't think it's racist for white people, asian people, black people, etc. to point that out. I do however think it's racist if any one of those people think that race is the primary cause of socio-economic problems above and beyond actual social and economic factors and constraints. The city-data comment was racist, because it deliberately put forward data without context or analysis in favor of race. As John pointed out, the class disparities of the three feeder populations is huge. Why focus on the race of the kids instead of the fact that one group is significantly poorer than the other two? Class includes a number of factors that can contribute, race meanwhile leads pretty much to one implication, and if that's how you see things cool, but having met intelligent and imbecilic people of every race, I tend to think that class is a larger issue.
Shaun was wrong, because he thinks that my objections are based in the race of the messenger and an unwillingness to look at hard truths, instead of what I just said, that the content isn't racist, the framing of the data and the debate are.
My response was indirect because I was agreeing with John Forte's response to Shaun in which he was clarifying his opinions about the original statement, and then I went on to expound upon why I thought the city-data comment was racist. I was both agreeing with John about why Shaun was wrong in his interpretation of our opinions, and elaborating on why the statement in the OP was racist.
You responded to me by saying:
>its amazing that people with your mindset automatically assume that comments like these are saying that BLACKS are just inclined....
thats not what those comments mean.
are BLACKS more inclined?
no
however, once blacks have identified the roots of their situation
instead of doing everything they can to remove themselves from the environment
they sit there
and stew in it
offering nothing but reasons why they cant<
So like I said, if you look at the original objection that John Forte made to Shaun and then that I agreed with and went on to discuss at length, neither one of us was arguing about black responses to these numbers positive or negative. That was never the point. That these numbers exist and could be recited by anyone of any background was not why we said that the statement in the OP was racist and I'll restate why we think it is by examining the actual statement in a second.
We disagreed with how Shaun was framing our opinions. It was never, as he suggested, that a white person said it, it was that the deliberate lack of context is a means through which to convey a skewed message. The race of the speaker isn't the source of the bias, the lack of context or the exclusion of other factors in favor a race based explanation is what's racist.
So, if you thought that I was suggesting that Shaun's statement was the implying that "blacks are inclined...", that isn't the case. There seems to be a misunderstanding of who and what is being responded to. I think the statement in the OP was racist, where as I thought Shaun's opinion on why we were calling that statement racist was unfounded.
My assertions regarding the OP were based on the fact that the original statement genuinely does not offer any context or explanation other than race for the numbers:
>"Colfax K-8 is very well regarded though. You can see on PPS's website that out of the white student body, over 90% scores proficient or advanced in reading, and math, over 85% on writing, and over 80% on science. The only reason its scores lag the suburbs its it's 30% black"<
Seriously, point to me where they implied anything about the actual problem being black people denying the numbers, or black people not trying to change, or stewing in their anger. If you're saying that I'm interpreting this statement incorrectly, you're really going to have to lay it out, because I don't see anything here about us identifying a problem and then sitting on our ass.
All I see is the word black, a racial category. Thus MY interpretation of the statement was that it was racist, because it's attributing something complex to a single factor, that while not arbitrary, certainly shouldn't be the first explanation for why a school is under-performing. The statement says the "only reason" it lags behind is because it has a sizable black population. It didn't say anything about the economic backgrounds of those kids.
Saying that the sole cause of an school's problems are its black students is racist. That's not a denial that there's a problem, it's the assertion that boiling down a complex problem to race in such a fashion is racist. Now we still have to fix the problem, and black people have to boot-strap Horatio Alger it, but that doesn't mean that someone making racist implications should be absolved of their intent. Regardless of what we do, if you make a statement attributing something to "blackness" when there are a lot of other reasonable ways to interpret it, you're treading in dangerous waters.
If you don't know anything at all about American Arms trafficking you could easily say that Northern Mexico has a culture of violence and homicide, I mean just look at the numbers. However if you were to learn that an adjacent culture is the largest arms dealer in the world and is Mexico's largest market for drugs, well it puts it in a different context. That doesn't mean Mexico doesn't have to clean up the problem, but if I were to say that the current violence in Mexico is just a by product of Mexican culture and identity without also pointing out another very large contributing factor I'd speaking disingenuously.
That's why the city-data comment and ones like it are racist. You've got a big complex problem that would require everyone to reevaluate how our society runs in order to fix...or you can just dismiss the problem by saying, "...well it's 30% black so you know..." Because now it because the fault of people who are marginalized by society instead of society itself.
*Note*: Yes I believe in personal responsibility, I just don't think that responsibility vs. social welfare is a true binary. I think it's constructed as a way to perpetuate an unbalanced society.
Now, my response to Shaun was based on his claim that we only say that it's racist because non-whites are talking about a problem that we like to deny.
>It's only racist because non-Blacks are the ones pointing out a glaring reality about Blacks that Blacks go to great lengths to deny despite it staring them in the face.<
Now we could be discussing the veracity of the idea that black people are denying that, taken in total, our school children are not faring well. I've worked in education, and I don't think most people are denying anything...but hey, maybe in total we are denying it...but that's okay, BECAUSE....
Whether or not we deny a goddamn thing was never part of my argument!
John Forte responded to Shaun saying: "It's racist because race is the only factor they're considering"
Which I agreed with. So the point isn't that we aren't willing to look at hard truths, or that white people can't point out when black kids are lagging behind in school, it's that they think race is the factor that trumps everything else.
That's why I said, "Race is the fucking end all be all for some people." My entire argument hinged not on these numbers being untrue or white people being allowed to point out statistics, it's that it's stupid to boil down a complex social problem to something as simple as race, and I think it's wrong for Shaun to suggest that we're being dishonest about our real reasons for taking umbrage with what was said. Mostly because it's presented as if we're suggesting an alternative to community action or something. It is entirely possible to both recognize when someone is manipulating an issue and still recognize that the issue exists. It's such a cop out to paint a genuine objection about how we conflate class and race by suggesting that it's an excuse not to act on a issue.
Now you haven't given me reason to believe the OP should be interpreted in a way that doesn't present race front and center, and since I never suggested that us being in denial or wallowing was the actual problem with what Shaun said, I'm going to just let you explain why you think OP statement wasn't racist if indeed you didn't.
So, you can talk about action and what we need to do and what we don't do, all you want, I'd be happy to discuss that with you. You're free to interpret those statements however you want, what you can't do however is pretend that I made an argument or opened up a discussion that I didn't.
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard
|
Printer-friendly copy 
Email this topic to a friend
General Discussion
