Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #12736212

Subject: "Leaked cables expose Netanyahu for the liar that he is (link)" Previous topic | Next topic
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 05:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
"Leaked cables expose Netanyahu for the liar that he is (link)"


          

Remember that ridiculous speech Bibi gave in 2012 in front of the U.N. with a cartoon "bomb" prop as he told the world Iran was developing a bomb within "months!" ? -- lol.

Bibi's own intelligence agency (Mossad) contradicted his frothy-mouthed war/fear mongering - and finally there seems to be some resistance from within Israel from those who realize that Netanyahu is making Israel less-safe and following full steam w/ a "we are the chosen people" prophecy that hinges off extremism, deception, and an attempt to have the U.S. do all the dirty work to bring the middle-east further in chaos.

And this guy is invited by Boehner to speak in front of Congress on Tuesday to spread more propaganda just weeks before an election? Any respectable congress(wo)man should boycott this non-sense.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/23/leaked-spy-cables-netanyahu-iran-bomb-mossad

Binyamin Netanyahu’s dramatic declaration to world leaders in 2012 that Iran was about a year away from making a nuclear bomb was contradicted by his own secret service, according to a top-secret Mossad document.

It is part of a cache of hundreds of dossiers, files and cables from the world’s major intelligence services – one of the biggest spy leaks in recent times.

Brandishing a cartoon of a bomb with a red line to illustrate his point, the Israeli prime minister warned the UN in New York that Iran would be able to build nuclear weapons the following year and called for action to halt the process.

But in a secret report shared with South Africa a few weeks later, Israel’s intelligence agency concluded that Iran was “not performing the activity necessary to produce weapons”. The report highlights the gulf between the public claims and rhetoric of top Israeli politicians and the assessments of Israel’s military and intelligence establishment.

The White House fears the Israeli leader’s anticipated inflammatory rhetoric could damage sensitive negotiations between Tehran and the world’s six big powers over Iran’s nuclear programme. The deadline to agree on a framework is in late March, with the final settlement to come on 30 June. Netanyahu has vowed to block an agreement he claims would give Iran access to a nuclear weapons capability.

The US president, Barack Obama, will not meet Netanyahu during his visit, saying protocol precludes a meeting so close to next month’s general election in Israel.

The documents, almost all marked as confidential or top secret, span almost a decade of global intelligence traffic, from 2006 to December last year. It has been leaked to the al-Jazeera investigative unit and shared with the Guardian.

The papers include details of operations against al-Qaida, Islamic State and other terrorist organisations, but also the targeting of environmental activists.

The files reveal that:

• The CIA attempted to establish contact with Hamas in spite of a US ban.

• South Korean intelligence targeted the leader of Greenpeace.

• Barack Obama “threatened” the Palestinian president to withdraw a bid for recognition of Palestine at the UN.

• South African intelligence spied on Russia over a controversial $100m joint satellite deal.

The cache, which has been independently authenticated by the Guardian, mainly involves exchanges between South Africa’s intelligence agency and its counterparts around the world. It is not the entire volume of traffic but a selective leak.

One of the biggest hauls is from Mossad. But there are also documents from Russia’s FSB, which is responsible for counter-terrorism. Such leaks of Russian material are extremely rare.

Other spy agencies caught up in the trawl include those of the US, Britain, France, Jordan, the UAE, Oman and several African nations.

The scale of the leak, coming 20 months after US whistleblower Edward Snowden handed over tens of thousands of NSA and GCHQ documents to the Guardian, highlights the increasing inability of intelligence agencies to keep their secrets secure.

While the Snowden trove revealed the scale of technological surveillance, the latest spy cables deal with espionage at street level – known to the intelligence agencies as human intelligence, or “humint”. They include surveillance reports, inter-agency information trading, disinformation and backbiting, as well as evidence of infiltration, theft and blackmail.

The leaks show how Africa is becoming increasingly important for global espionage, with the US and other western states building up their presence on the continent and China expanding its economic influence. One serving intelligence officer told the Guardian: “South Africa is the El Dorado of espionage.”

Africa has also become caught up in the US, Israeli and British covert global campaigns to stem the spread of Iranian influence, tighten sanctions and block its nuclear programme.

The Mossad briefing about Iran’s nuclear programme in 2012 was in stark contrast to the alarmist tone set by Netanyahu, who has long presented the Iranian nuclear programme as an existential threat to Israel and a huge risk to world security. The Israeli prime minister told the UN: “By next spring, at most by next summer, at current enrichment rates, they will have finished the medium enrichment and move on to the final stage. From there, it’s only a few months, possibly a few weeks before they get enough enriched uranium for the first bomb.”

He said his information was not based on secret information or military intelligence but International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reports.

Behind the scenes, Mossad took a different view. In a report shared with South African spies on 22 October 2012 – but likely written earlier – it conceded that Iran was “working to close gaps in areas that appear legitimate, such as enrichment reactors, which will reduce the time required to produce weapons from the time the instruction is actually given”.

But the report also states that Iran “does not appear to be ready” to enrich uranium to the higher levels necessary for nuclear weapons. To build a bomb requires enrichment to 90%. Mossad estimated that Iran then had “about 100kg of material enriched to 20%” (which was later diluted or converted under the terms of the 2013 Geneva agreement). Iran has always said it is developing a nuclear programme for civilian energy purposes.

Last week, Netanyahu’s office repeated the claim that “Iran is closer than ever today to obtaining enriched material for a nuclear bomb” in a statement in response to an IAEA report.

A senior Israeli government official said there was no contradiction between Netanyahu’s statements on the Iranian nuclear threat and “the quotes in your story – allegedly from Israeli intelligence”. Both the prime minister and Mossad said Iran was enriching uranium in order to produce weapons, he added.

“Israel believes the proposed nuclear deal with Iran is a bad deal, for it enables the world’s foremost terror state to create capabilities to produce the elements necessary for a nuclear bomb,” he said.

However, Mossad had been at odds with Netanyahu on Iran before. The former Mossad chief Meir Dagan, who left office in December 2010, let it be known that he had opposed an order from Netanyahu to prepare a military attack on Iran.

Other members of Israel’s security establishment were riled by Netanyahu’s rhetoric on the Iranian nuclear threat and his advocacy of military confrontation. In April 2012, a former head of Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security agency, accused Netanyahu of “messianic” political leadership for pressing for military action, saying he and the then defence minister, Ehud Barak, were misleading the public on the Iran issue. Benny Gantz, the Israeli military chief of staff, said decisions on tackling Iran “must be made carefully, out of historic responsibility but without hysteria”.

There were also suspicions in Washington that Netanyahu was seeking to bounce Obama into taking a more hawkish line on Iran.

A few days before Netanyahu’s speech to the UN, the then US defence secretary, Leon Panetta, accused the Israeli prime minister of trying to force the US into a corner. “The fact is … presidents of the United States, prime ministers of Israel or any other country … don’t have, you know, a bunch of little red lines that determine their decisions,” he said.

“What they have are facts that are presented to them about what a country is up to, and then they weigh what kind of action is needed in order to deal with that situation. I mean, that’s the real world. Red lines are kind of political arguments that are used to try to put people in a corner.”
-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
He wasn't really lying though. Iran HAS been pursuing nukes
Feb 25th 2015
1
it would help if you read the article/leak.
Feb 25th 2015
2
      RE: it would help if you read the article/leak.
Feb 25th 2015
3
      RE: it would help if you read the article/leak.
Feb 25th 2015
6
      RE: it would help if you read the article/leak.
Feb 25th 2015
8
      Iran had a LEGIT WMD program in the late 80s before they stopped
Mar 02nd 2015
18
      newsflash: the cold war is over, and so are the 80's. It's 2015.
Mar 02nd 2015
22
           2015 watchword is 'existential threat'.
Mar 02nd 2015
24
           LOL:
Mar 02nd 2015
26
           Thats not what MOSSAD said. They said no BOMB, not components
Mar 02nd 2015
25
      RE: it would help if you read the article/leak.
Mar 03rd 2015
31
He's literally the worst. THE. WORST.
Feb 25th 2015
4
I've been reading where there's growing dissent in Israel
Feb 25th 2015
5
      Oh, you could say that
Feb 26th 2015
14
           And more...
Mar 02nd 2015
17
                Nice - thanks for these links.
Mar 02nd 2015
23
Smh...read that this morning
Feb 25th 2015
7
RE: Smh...read that this morning
Feb 25th 2015
9
RE: Smh...read that this morning
Feb 26th 2015
12
A world run by sociopaths.
Mar 02nd 2015
27
That's one disgusting person
Feb 26th 2015
10
I used to think our regime was just paranoid,lol
Feb 26th 2015
11
A world leader making up stories about a Middle Eastern nation
Feb 26th 2015
13
Indeed, part of the Israeli American propaganda machine/agenda
Feb 26th 2015
15
An accounting of Netanyahu's damage to US-Israeli relations (link)
Mar 01st 2015
16
The George W. Bush of Israel
Mar 02nd 2015
19
I'd equate him to Nixon minus any kind of legacy
Mar 02nd 2015
20
RE: The George W. Bush of Israel
Mar 02nd 2015
21
Dianne Feinstein Slams Bibi on 'Speak for Jews' Claim
Mar 02nd 2015
28
The Real Existential Threat Is Not Iran. It’s Bibi.
Mar 02nd 2015
29
wtf is he coming here to give a speech to congress?
Mar 02nd 2015
30
List of those boycotting Netanyahu's speech today at 11 a.m.
Mar 03rd 2015
32
Seldom happier to be a registered Democrat.
Mar 03rd 2015
33
      not one republican on that list lol
Mar 03rd 2015
34
Bibi is a monster.
Mar 03rd 2015
35
It's going to broadcast live on WSJ. *link*
Mar 03rd 2015
36
didn't care
Mar 03rd 2015
37
as Bibi speaks, Kerry is in Iran trying to negotiate the deal
Mar 03rd 2015
38
bbc perspective
Mar 03rd 2015
39
      astute.
Mar 03rd 2015
40
      thanks
Mar 03rd 2015
45
I thought I'd have the gumption to watch this. I don't.
Mar 03rd 2015
41
"Iran will always be an enemy to the United States." gee, that's helpful
Mar 03rd 2015
42
I had to turn it off.
Mar 03rd 2015
43
ISRAEL CAN STAND ON ITS OWN
Mar 03rd 2015
44
right?
Mar 03rd 2015
47
A table with two legs can also "stand"
Mar 03rd 2015
48
this post is so much better, interesting, and informative than that
Mar 03rd 2015
46

GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 05:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "He wasn't really lying though. Iran HAS been pursuing nukes"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Theres a reason Mossad is knocking physicists off and using computer worms to blow up factories.

Its very real out here.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 05:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
2. "it would help if you read the article/leak."
In response to Reply # 1
Wed Feb-25-15 05:40 PM by Vex_id

          

Iran is pursuing nuclear energy - but has not shown the capacity to enrich uranium to 90% (which is required to utilize the uranium for weapon purposes). In 2012, they were only at 20% (according to the Mossad's own assessment/intelligence).

There is no evidence to suggest that Iran is seeking to enrich to 90% - they're still not even close to that - and if one understands history, they will remember when the West removed an elected leader in Iran in the 70's and instituted a Shah when they were first considering going nuclear - and they remember how that went. They aren't a suicidal people.

This leak isn't shared to suggest that Iran is a wholly benevolent nation --- but it does demonstrate Netanyahu's lies - and his present ambition to speak to Congress - weeks before elections - in defiance of our own president, is not only absurd in its disregard of our national integrity, but it is an attempt to spoil this critical round of negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. Thus far, Iran has abided by the agreement in the negotiations (according to the independent Atomic Agency's own reports). There is absolutely no evidence to suggest they are trying to pursue nukes --- I challenge you to back up your claim with facts.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 07:03 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "RE: it would help if you read the article/leak."
In response to Reply # 2


          



I'm saying....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
BrawtaLives
Member since Mar 07th 2008
398 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 10:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "RE: it would help if you read the article/leak."
In response to Reply # 2


          

No....the Shah was installed after Prime Minister Mossadegh nationalized the country's oil fields which were controlled by Britain at the time. It was all about the oil not nuclear energy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 11:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. "RE: it would help if you read the article/leak."
In response to Reply # 6


          

it was certainly about oil, too (as it's always been) - but I was referring to that
time period when Iran was asserting its rights to pursue nuclear energy (and even
weapons if it chose to do so) as it's national right/entitlement.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nukevault/ebb268/

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 10:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "Iran had a LEGIT WMD program in the late 80s before they stopped"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Then they ramped it up in the early 2000s then tried to play it off by saying its for "energy"

Don't be naive.

Theres a lot of intel that can't be directly shared to the public without incontrovertible proof.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
22. "newsflash: the cold war is over, and so are the 80's. It's 2015."
In response to Reply # 18


          

>Then they ramped it up in the early 2000s then tried to play
>it off by saying its for "energy"

you're using rhetoric, but we need facts. Not only has the independent Atomic Agency
determined that Iran's present nuclear capacity is nowhere near enrichment levels (90% uranium enrichment) such that it could weaponize the energy, but Israel's own intelligence agency (Mossad) has declared so as well. So there is no evidence to suggest that in 2015, Iran is trying to weaponize and enrich to 90%.

One of the problems that plagues international relations is the inability to accept that regimes can change, as can cultures. The Iranian people aren't suicidal, and while Iran will defend itself (as will every other nation on earth) - we mustn't rush to assume that they are "imminently positioned" to "attack!" "bomb!" and "destroy!" - particularly when the evidence declares otherwise. Or have we learned nothing of the rush to war in the wake of the egregious lies about Iraq WMD's?

Liars must be held accountable.



-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:18 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "2015 watchword is 'existential threat'."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Of course, high cholesterol, diabetes and morbid obesity also represent an 'existential threat' BUT THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL ARE CONVENIENTLY IGNORING

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 03:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
26. "LOL:"
In response to Reply # 24


          

>Of course, high cholesterol, diabetes and morbid obesity also
>represent an 'existential threat' BUT THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL
>ARE CONVENIENTLY IGNORING


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 01:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "Thats not what MOSSAD said. They said no BOMB, not components"
In response to Reply # 22


          

Theres a difference between importing metal alloys of a specific type, refining uranium at ridiculous rates, refusing to let inspectors in, testing components of weapon production...and yet, not making a bomb.

If Israel was put to the same scrutiny before Vanunu (if you don't know who that is, look it up) then wouldn't be so pro-Tehran on this issue.

I don't care about the Cold War.

Countries have pursued nukes regardless.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
neuro_OSX
Member since Oct 29th 2004
1157 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 12:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "RE: it would help if you read the article/leak."
In response to Reply # 2
Tue Mar-03-15 01:00 AM by neuro_OSX

  

          

That coup d'état orchestrated by the U.S. and England against democratically elected Iranian prime minister Mohammad Mosaddegh was in 1953. BP oil company was behind it all, now aint that some shit ?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 07:37 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "He's literally the worst. THE. WORST."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 08:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
5. "I've been reading where there's growing dissent in Israel"
In response to Reply # 4


          

opposing his leadership. How accurate is that in your estimation?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Thu Feb-26-15 10:01 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
14. "Oh, you could say that"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4630789,00.html

http://blogs.forward.com/forward-thinking/215392/how-my-high-school-predicts-israels-elections/

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.642840 <-- long-winded, but Israeli leftist, so there is no way it would ever NOT be long-winded

http://m.forward.com/articles/214591/why-israel-lobby-is-biggest-casualty-of-feud-over/?utm_content=DailyNewsletter_TopArea_Position-1_Headline&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=TheForwardToday(Monday-Friday)&utm_campaign=Daily_Newsletter_Mon_Thurs2015-02-12

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 09:21 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
17. "And more..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4631634,00.html

Was talking to my cousin this weekend, who is voting for the new united Arab List because it includes her leftist party.

With the exception of the far right wingers -- like Naftali bennett, who I wish would get hit by a bus -- I'm 'assured' (anecdotally) that national consensus is Netanyahu is a total douchebag.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
23. "Nice - thanks for these links."
In response to Reply # 17


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

dafriquan
Charter member
24695 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 11:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "Smh...read that this morning"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

These guys (world leaders) have absolutely no qualms playing hard and fast with our lives. They will literally say anything to get what they want.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Wed Feb-25-15 11:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
9. "RE: Smh...read that this morning"
In response to Reply # 7


          

>These guys (world leaders) have absolutely no qualms playing
>hard and fast with our lives. They will literally say anything
>to get what they want.

...and they've been getting away with it, unaccounted for. The
media is complicit in this as well - and it has to change.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
dafriquan
Charter member
24695 posts
Thu Feb-26-15 08:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "RE: Smh...read that this morning"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


>...and they've been getting away with it, unaccounted for.
>The
>media is complicit in this as well - and it has to change.
>
See that's the thing.
These days we have more leaks than ever (thanks to the double edged sword called information technology). You would think that Wikileaks and Snowden etc would have a bigger impact but the interest kinda tapers out and the media quickly moves on to other things.

I am starting to think leaks don't matter anymore. The only one who's liable to do time is the whistleblower. How did we get here?



  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10308 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 03:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "A world run by sociopaths."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Including Obama

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10308 posts
Thu Feb-26-15 12:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "That's one disgusting person"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

AFRICAN
Charter member
11808 posts
Thu Feb-26-15 04:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "I used to think our regime was just paranoid,lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

turns out there is some truth to the allegations.

In an October 2009 report by South Africa’s intelligence service, the National Intelligence Agency (NIA), on operations in Africa, Israel is said to be “working assiduously to encircle and isolate Sudan from the outside, and to fuel insurrection inside Sudan”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/24/africa-el-dorado-espionage-leaked-intelligence-files

http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
instagram:@3rdworldview
Blessed be the Lord /who believe any mess they read up on the message board

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Selassie I God
Member since Feb 21st 2006
10355 posts
Thu Feb-26-15 09:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "A world leader making up stories about a Middle Eastern nation"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

having dangerous weapons / threatening world safety, and using the stories as a call to action...

Sounds vaguely familiar somehow...

____
Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame
They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain

(c) Luciano


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0-qndkemo

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Thu Feb-26-15 10:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "Indeed, part of the Israeli American propaganda machine/agenda"
In response to Reply # 13


          

They are clearly interested in annexing the middle east. Palestine is systematically being cleansed and the world can't do anything about it.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Sun Mar-01-15 06:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
16. "An accounting of Netanyahu's damage to US-Israeli relations (link)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/netanyahu-damage-us-obama-israel-relations/386348/

It would be reassuring—sort of—to believe that Benjamin Netanyahu decided to set the U.S.-Israel relationship on fire mainly because he fears that President Obama is selling out Israel. But Netanyahu’s speech to Congress on March 3—a speech arranged without Obama’s knowledge by Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer and by Obama’s chief Republican rival, House Speaker John Boehner—is motivated by another powerful fear: the fear of unemployment. The message Bibi is preparing to deliver on Tuesday (a “statesmanlike message,” according to an official close to him) has as its actual target not Congress but, instead, Israeli voters who need reminding, in Netanyahu’s view, that he is the only leader strong enough to face down both the genocidal regime in Tehran and the Israel-loathing regime in Washington. (Make no mistake: Netanyahu sees Obama as an actual adversary. If only all of Israel's adversaries would veto U.N. Security Council resolutions hostile to Israel...)

Bibi is facing an existential threat to his career, and Boehner is staging for him the ultimate campaign rally, 6,000 miles away from home. People I’ve spoken with in Israel who have a sophisticated understanding of current campaign dynamics—the Israeli election is set for March 17—say that a well-delivered, well-received speech (standing ovations in Congress seem very impressive unless you know better) could gain Netanyahu two or three extra seats in the Knesset, which might be what he needs to retain his job. Polls are showing the centrist Zionist Camp party led by Isaac Herzog and Tzipi Livni competing strongly against Netanyahu's Likud party, and there are also hints that traditional Netanyahu voters who have grown tired of him or who are concerned about issues that don’t seem to concern him—Israel’s affordable housing crisis, for one—might move to other right-wing parties, making his task more difficult.

All of this is not to say that Netanyahu isn’t worried about Iran, and isn’t worried about a set of (for now, theoretical) concessions by the West that could put Iran on a slow but steady path to the nuclear threshold. But there is no reason—none, zero, efes—to believe that his putative goal, to stiffen the spine of Congress in advance of a framework agreement, could not have been achieved a) immediately after the election; b) in intensive one-on-one, or one-on-two, or five, lobbying meetings with senators; or c) in a way that didn’t so obviously disrespect the president of the United States, or place Democratic supporters of Israel in an atrocious bind. “If this didn’t have an electoral quality to it, why not just say to Boehner, ‘Invite me after the election’?” Dennis Ross, the former Middle East peace negotiator, asked me.

Related Story

The Netanyahu Disaster
Netanyahu is engaging in behavior that is without precedent: He is apparently so desperate to stay in office that he has let the Republicans weaponize his country in their struggle against a Democratic president they despise. Boehner seeks to do damage to Obama, and he has turned Netanyahu into an ally in this cause. It's not entirely clear here who is being played.

For decades, it has been a cardinal principle of Israeli security and foreign-policy doctrine that its leaders must cultivate bipartisan support in the United States, and therefore avoid even the appearance of favoritism. This is the official position of the leading pro-Israel lobbying group in Washington, AIPAC, as well, which is why its leaders are privately fuming about Netanyahu’s end-run around the White House. Even though AIPAC’s leadership leans right, the organization knows that support for Israel in America must be bipartisan in order for it to be stable. “Dermer and Netanyahu don’t believe that Democrats are capable of being pro-Israel, which is crazy for a lot of reasons, but one of the main reasons is that most Jews are Democrats,” one veteran AIPAC leader told me.

In Israel, cynicism about Netanyahu’s intentions is spreading. “Netanyahu, who purports to be the big expert on everything American, subordinated Israel’s most crucial strategic interests to election considerations, and the repercussions will endure for some time,” Chuck Freilich, a former deputy head of Israel’s National Security Council, wrote last week. Another Netanyahu critic, Martin Indyk, the former Obama administration peace envoy, told me that he believes the Israeli prime minister is motivated by a combination of factors, including a belief that he is best equipped to defend the Jewish people against eliminationist threats, and a “genuine concern about the nature of the deal,” which Indyk said he shares.

Indyk went on to say, however, that “in the process, Bibi has generated a suspicion that there’s another motivation, which is that he’s in a neck-and-neck race for prime minister, and this appearance before Congress looks like an attempt to show the Israeli voter two weeks before the election that Congress has his back even though he’s in a confrontation with the president of the United States. And because of that suspicion, he has managed to achieve the opposite of his intention.”

People with knowledge of Netanyahu’s thinking say he believes he will be able, after the election (and assuming he forms the next government), to cauterize the wounds he has opened with the Obama administration. But as Michael Oren, who served as Israel’s ambassador to the United States until 2013, has noted, the U.S.-Israel relationship is now in “uncharted waters.” No one knows how this disaster will unfold.

Make no mistake: Netanyahu sees Obama as an actual adversary.

Ross, the former negotiator, believes that the near-term relationship between the United States and Israel depends almost entirely on the nature of the next Israeli government. “If we see a solely right-wing government, then we have a situation in which even if Bibi seeks to improve things, it will be difficult,” he said. “On traditional defense issues, the relations will be okay, but the impulse won’t be there on the part of the Obama administration to protect Israel on matters related to the delegitimization campaign”—the movement that calls into question Israel’s right to exist—“and on the internationalization of the conflict.” In other words, do not expect to see the Obama administration go out of its way to protect Israel at the United Nations.

Despite the invitation from Boehner, it has become clear that much of the rest of the world has stopped listening to Netanyahu. This is not solely his fault—the world is stacked against Israel on most matters—but it is Netanyahu’s job to work within this straitened reality.

“Because Netanyahu was not forthcoming on the Palestinian issue and because he eroded Israel’s international legitimacy, the world is no longer listening to his truthful message on the Iranian issue,” Ari Shavit, the Israeli columnist, wrote this week. “Because Netanyahu has worked against rather than with the American administration, the American administration has tilted toward Tehran and against Jerusalem. Israel, rather than Iran, has been isolated. The reason Netanyahu is about to give a brilliant and desperate speech to the U.S. Congress is that he knows he lost the game.”

On this last point, I am not entirely sure: One of the reasons Obama administration officials have reacted with such pique to the Netanyahu speech is that they know he is an effective speaker, and they understand that they may, in any case, have a hard time selling a nuclear deal to Congress, and to an American public, predisposed to dislike and distrust Iran.

But let's look at what would happen if Netanyahu "wins" this battle. Indyk lays out a depressing scenario:

"What happens if the president succeeds in doing a deal despite the speech of the prime minister?" he asks. "Instead of the United States and Israel talking about ways to provide strategic reassurance to Israel, there’s going to be an ongoing fight over this deal. And what if the prime minister then succeeds in killing the deal? How will the president relate to the destruction of one of his signature policy initiatives? And if the sanctions then collapse, as seems likely, and Iran continues moving towards a nuclear weapon, how does the prim e minister propose to stop Iran? He will certainly manage in the process to create the impression that he wants the United States to go to war with Iran. I don’t think the American people, in their war-weary state, will appreciate that."

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130810 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
19. "The George W. Bush of Israel"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:03 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
20. "I'd equate him to Nixon minus any kind of legacy"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 12:07 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "RE: The George W. Bush of Israel"
In response to Reply # 19


          



Nah...he's much more intelligent and politically aimed than W.

Like Mongo said....He's more in line with Nixon....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 03:48 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
28. "Dianne Feinstein Slams Bibi on 'Speak for Jews' Claim "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

BECAUSE HE IS A DOUCHE

http://forward.com/articles/215737/aipac-seeks-unity-as-feud-erupts-over-arrogant-ben/#ixzz3TGOmSAJ7

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 03:53 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
29. "The Real Existential Threat Is Not Iran. It’s Bibi. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Read more: http://blogs.forward.com/forward-thinking/215778/the-real-existential-threat-is-not-iran-it-s-bib/?utm_content=ThemedNewsletter_MainSection_TopArticle_TwoItemLayout_Headline&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Opinion&utm_campaign=Opinion%202015-03-02#ixzz3TGPzJtxs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
9780 posts
Mon Mar-02-15 07:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "wtf is he coming here to give a speech to congress?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

shits insane.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
http://instagram.com/0kayndc

"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 10:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
32. "List of those boycotting Netanyahu's speech today at 11 a.m."
In response to Reply # 0


          

(list is growing as I type this)

SENATE – 6 members

Sen. Al Franken (Minn.)
Sen. Martin Heinrich (N.M.)
Sen. Tim Kaine (Va.)
Sen. Patrick Leahy (Vt.)
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)
Sen. Brian Schatz (Hawaii)
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (Mass.)

HOUSE – 29 members

Rep. Earl Blumenauer (Ore.)
Rep. G.K. Butterfield (N.C.)
Rep. Andre Carson (Ind.)
Rep. Kathleen Clark (Mass.)
Rep. William Lacy Clay (Mo.)
Rep. James Clyburn (S.C.)
Rep. Steve Cohen (Tenn.)
Rep. Elijah Cummings (Md.)
Rep. Danny Davis (Ill.)
Rep. Peter DeFazio (Ore.)
Rep. Diana DeGette (Colo.)
Rep. Donna Edwards (Md.)
Rep. Keith Ellison (Minn.)
Rep. Raúl Grijalva (Ariz.)
Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (Ill.)
Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D.C.)
Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson (Texas)
Rep. Barbara Lee (Calif.)
Rep. John Lewis (Ga.)
Rep. Betty McCollum (Minn.)
Rep. Jim McDermott (Wash.)
Rep. Jim McGovern (Mass.)
Rep. Gregory Meeks (N.Y.)
Rep. Beto O’Rourke (Texas)
Rep. Chellie Pingree (Maine)
Rep. Charles Rangel (N.Y.)
Rep. Cedric Richmond (La.)
Rep. Jan Schakowsky (Ill.)
Rep. Bennie Thompson (Miss.)
Rep. John Yarmuth (Ky.)

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 10:42 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
33. "Seldom happier to be a registered Democrat. "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 10:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
34. "not one republican on that list lol"
In response to Reply # 33


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 10:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "Bibi is a monster."
In response to Reply # 0


          

He is actively ethnically cleansing Palestine with U.S. support.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 10:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
36. "It's going to broadcast live on WSJ. *link*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/03/03/live-blog-netanyahu-delivers-speech-to-congress/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "didn't care "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

really didn't but this shit is building
yesterday news of the press? or the VP boycotting his talk
woke up this morning to a damn propaganda ad from the "friends of israel" calling Obama and those politicians boycotting anti israel

now thats too fucking much
way much
now i'm pissed
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
38. "as Bibi speaks, Kerry is in Iran trying to negotiate the deal"
In response to Reply # 0


          

one of my main issues w/ this speech is that it sabotages those negotiations.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:24 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
39. "bbc perspective"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31696322

The tensions between US and Israeli leaders will be welcome. Nothing Mr Netanyahu can say will derail a nuclear deal if one is really possible.

And if there is no deal, why then Nr Netanyahu may well have to share some of the blame rather than just Tehran. In the short term, it is a win-win for Iran.

This though is a strategic moment for the Iranians and they would do well to disregard the "noises off" from the ebullient Mr Netanyahu. The obituaries for the Israel-US relationship may also be premature.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
40. "astute. "
In response to Reply # 39


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "thanks"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:32 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
41. "I thought I'd have the gumption to watch this. I don't. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm literally cringing every time this asshole opens his mouth.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
64815 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. ""Iran will always be an enemy to the United States." gee, that's helpful"
In response to Reply # 0


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "I had to turn it off."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Something about seeing a sanctioned and legal terrorist talk about terrorist gets me upset.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42040 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 11:50 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "ISRAEL CAN STAND ON ITS OWN"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Who's stopping you?

Good luck with that

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mynoriti
Charter member
35740 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 05:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "right?"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

>Who's stopping you?
>
>Good luck with that
>
>

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
dafriquan
Charter member
24695 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 05:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "A table with two legs can also "stand""
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

Won't take much to make it fall though.

Thankfully America will always be Israel's third leg so the tough talk never has to be tested in any serious way.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Tue Mar-03-15 03:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "this post is so much better, interesting, and informative than that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Isis post that's platinum

shame

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #12736212 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com