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Subject: "I used to think African Americans and Jewish folks were in the same boat" Previous topic | Next topic
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Mon Feb-23-15 10:04 PM

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"I used to think African Americans and Jewish folks were in the same boat"


  

          

It would seem many a Jewish person apparently profited from the trade. Being somewhat in a state of disbelief I checked a number of sites just to make sure I wasn't on any hate related pages and came across the following:

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/131231-dutch-rabbi-jews-were-deeply-involved-in-slave-trade

Of course there are many other sites with the info as well. It's funny how we never learned about this particular chapter in school.

tl;dr There's a rabbi writing about the Jewish involvement I the slave trade.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
You're getting clowned for remotely being that naive
Feb 23rd 2015
1
That's fine-- better to learn now than not at all
Feb 23rd 2015
2
have u ever heard of a guy named Farrakhan?
Feb 24th 2015
3
I was a fan, but never really understood his angle
Feb 24th 2015
5
oh i see.... ur just makin up stuff now 4 the sake of posting
Feb 24th 2015
17
      lol n/m
Feb 24th 2015
31
"gutter religion"
Feb 24th 2015
22
So by that rationale alot of black people arn't in the same boat right?
Feb 24th 2015
4
Im not following
Feb 24th 2015
6
      ...
Feb 24th 2015
7
      Well if that's the case why did u ever think Jewish ppl were in the same
Feb 24th 2015
10
           ^This. Don't get the same boat talk.
Feb 24th 2015
12
           I always had a their persecution isn't much different than ours
Feb 24th 2015
14
                the completely different historical narratives didn't tip u off?
Feb 24th 2015
15
                I had really only looked at it in terms of persecution
Feb 24th 2015
19
                All peoples struggles are different. African-American and Africans
Feb 24th 2015
18
                     African-American and Africans <- a lot of overlap though
Feb 24th 2015
20
                          sure.
Feb 24th 2015
23
           Clearly there have been, but they seem to be doing ok
Feb 24th 2015
13
           Well yeah life's all about learning and growing, I'm assuming u just
Feb 24th 2015
36
           ALL his post make sense now
Feb 25th 2015
42
           i think the two groups have things to learn from one another
Feb 24th 2015
39
           yup
Feb 24th 2015
38
*jews you*
Feb 24th 2015
8
can I be enlightened on the meaning behind that?
Feb 24th 2015
9
      someone on here used the term when referring to a deal they made
Feb 24th 2015
24
same boat? cmon bruh...
Feb 24th 2015
11
Hey I grew up in an area called Goshen not far from Bethesda
Feb 24th 2015
16
oh shit, 124?
Feb 24th 2015
34
i caught that too. jokes for days
Feb 24th 2015
21
Both things can be true
Feb 24th 2015
25
Jewish Daily Forward had a whole series on this.
Feb 24th 2015
26
RE: paying slaves reparations and our abysmal record
Feb 24th 2015
27
      Another one, mostly in context of Civil War
Feb 24th 2015
28
           The Slaves of Charleston
Feb 24th 2015
30
kinda
Feb 24th 2015
29
There's difference: We (Negroes) were in the boat...Jews financed them
Feb 24th 2015
32
I hate this statement, but have nothing to counter it with.
Feb 24th 2015
33
blks historically leaned on story of jewish bondage, moses, pharoah
Feb 24th 2015
35
I dunno where to start there
Feb 24th 2015
37
Confederacy's first Secretary of War AND State was Jewish.
Feb 24th 2015
40
Some sources say heavily others say minimally
Feb 24th 2015
41

GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon Feb-23-15 10:35 PM

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1. "You're getting clowned for remotely being that naive"
In response to Reply # 0


          

WTF son

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Mon Feb-23-15 11:00 PM

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2. "That's fine-- better to learn now than not at all"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Had it not been for the web I may have always been so.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Tue Feb-24-15 06:48 AM

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3. "have u ever heard of a guy named Farrakhan?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Tue Feb-24-15 08:19 AM

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5. "I was a fan, but never really understood his angle"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

on the relationship between the two groups. I'd heard him say critical things of Jewish culture but never in direct connection to the mid Atlantic trade. So to me at the time it sounded like anti Semitic rhetoric. I'm still not his biggest fan for other reasons, but knowing this certainly puts more of what he said into context.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:34 AM

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17. "oh i see.... ur just makin up stuff now 4 the sake of posting"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>I'd heard him say
>critical things of Jewish culture but never in direct
>connection to the mid Atlantic trade.

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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RS
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Tue Feb-24-15 11:07 AM

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31. "lol n/m"
In response to Reply # 17


          

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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Tue Feb-24-15 10:14 AM

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22. ""gutter religion""
In response to Reply # 3


          

>

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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4. "So by that rationale alot of black people arn't in the same boat right?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Tue Feb-24-15 08:24 AM

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6. "Im not following "
In response to Reply # 4
Tue Feb-24-15 08:50 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

Are you referring to African involvement in the trade? If so I'd argue that even though it's true Africans had a hand in it they're still in the same boat as us as far as getting painted with the same brush of injustice. Mike Brown could just as easily be Mugabe Olajuwon.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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MiracleRic
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Tue Feb-24-15 08:47 AM

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7. "..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:06 AM

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10. "Well if that's the case why did u ever think Jewish ppl were in the same"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Boat? Seems like u just wanted to share this information about Jews that were involved in the slave trade and that's perfectly fine to share but u don't need to try to dress it up with this weird faux naïveté

Cause it's coming off like ur saying injustices havent been done to Jewish ppl as well and that's clearly not the case

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:23 AM

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12. "^This. Don't get the same boat talk. "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:29 AM

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14. "I always had a their persecution isn't much different than ours"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

view, but it is in fact a lot different, because we had no hand in any recent persecution of their group, but on the other hand...

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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MiracleRic
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:30 AM

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15. "the completely different historical narratives didn't tip u off?"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:49 AM

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19. "I had really only looked at it in terms of persecution "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

and you know-- slavery.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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18. "All peoples struggles are different. African-American and Africans"
In response to Reply # 14
Tue Feb-24-15 09:45 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

struggle is different.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:50 AM

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20. "African-American and Africans <- a lot of overlap though "
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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23. "sure. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:25 AM

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13. "Clearly there have been, but they seem to be doing ok"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

It's more surprise than anything else. Like surprise at the narrative that's spun pretty much all the way through high school. A lot of you all may have already known this, but it is genuinely new to me and I guess growing up in a largely Jewish area I just never knew.

Yes there's the Holocaust and Israeli/Arab relations that seemed to paint a picture (to me at least) that when it came to struggles the two cultures had a lot in common, but obviously not so much. I guess I'm just in awe of how unspoken this particular level of involvement is.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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36. "Well yeah life's all about learning and growing, I'm assuming u just "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

Graduated from high school so that's makes ur post make more sense, a bit

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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legsdiamond
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Wed Feb-25-15 09:23 AM

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42. "ALL his post make sense now"
In response to Reply # 36


          

we could be talking about cars, coffee or hip hop and Atillah would find a way to link it back to slavery. j/k


  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:27 PM

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39. "i think the two groups have things to learn from one another"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

and often have. there are a lot of circumstantial differences (sizes of the groups, solidarity of culture across a broad diaspora, etc) but i think minority groups can all learn from each other's successes and failure and often do.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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38. "yup"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Amritsar
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8. "*jews you*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Atillah Moor
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:05 AM

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9. "can I be enlightened on the meaning behind that?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I've seen it in Kosher Sam's sig (I think). Always make me scratch my head a bit.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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KosherSam
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24. "someone on here used the term when referring to a deal they made"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

as in, "someone tried to jew me out of money"

After calling the person out, I co-opted it

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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legsdiamond
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Tue Feb-24-15 09:12 AM

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11. "same boat? cmon bruh..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Atillah Moor
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16. "Hey I grew up in an area called Goshen not far from Bethesda "
In response to Reply # 11
Tue Feb-24-15 09:31 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

What do you expect?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Crash Bandacoot
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34. "oh shit, 124?"
In response to Reply # 16


          

washington square? lol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
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"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

  

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double negative
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21. "i caught that too. jokes for days"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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KosherSam
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25. "Both things can be true"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Jews and African-Americans share similarities in that they both have felt centuries of oppression, and both derive their cultural identity from something other than a national identity.

Where they differ (among other things) is that Jews were directly involved in the oppression of Black people, and the same cannot be said of Black people oppressing Jews.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Mongo
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26. "Jewish Daily Forward had a whole series on this. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Let me see if I can dig it up.

  

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Mongo
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27. "RE: paying slaves reparations and our abysmal record"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

http://forward.com/articles/213776/should-jews-have-to-pay-reparations-for-slavery/?p=all

The 150th anniversary of the abolition of slavery in the United States — Congress passed the Thirteenth Amendment in late January 1865 — comes at an fraught moment in the history of race relations. Considering that black men are being killed by police at the same rate as they were lynched in the era of Jim Crow, it can be depressing to reflect on how many promises of 1865, not to mention 1776, have not yet been fulfilled. But it can also be edifying to probe into some of the lesser-known aspects of the story of how the emancipation of slaves was finally accomplished. The history of the abolitionist movement is of more than antiquarian interest: it should serve to inspire us to finish the job today.
Nobody can argue that the balance of the Jewish record on the question of American slavery and the Civil War is anything but regrettable. If the career of Confederate Secretary of War Judah P. Benjamin were not enough, the overwhelming complacency of the antebellum Jewish community, even in the North, provides a record sufficiently embarrassing to warrant official acknowledgement — even, perhaps, reparation.


Read more: http://forward.com/articles/213776/should-jews-have-to-pay-reparations-for-slavery/?p=all#ixzz3Sg8Jhk3L

  

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Mongo
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28. "Another one, mostly in context of Civil War"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

http://forward.com/articles/179441/jews-mostly-supported-slavery-or-kept-silent-d/?p=all

Whenever I told someone that I was working on an exhibition called “Passages Through the Fire: Jews and the Civil War,” I typically got two responses. Both reflect the need for the exhibit (now on display at Yeshiva University Museum in New York), which presents the widely forgotten story of the full participation of Jews in the nation’s great existential crisis.
My sister’s reaction was typical: There were Jews in the Civil War? Who knew?
The second most common response was in some ways more interesting: The Jews who fought in the Civil War were against slavery, right? The discomfiting answer: not so much.
As Jewish historian Dale Rosengarten expresses it, quoting a Talmudic precept: “The law of the land is the law of the Jews.” From a modern perspective, it seems anomalous that a people whose history hinged on an epic escape from servitude would not have been deeply troubled by America’s “peculiar institution” — but few were.
Some Jews owned slaves, a few traded them, and the livelihoods of many, North and South, were inextricably bound to the slave system. Most southern Jews defended slavery, and some went further, advocating its expansion.
Notable among these was Judah P. Benjamin, labeled by the abolitionist Ben Wade, who served with Benjamin in the U.S. Senate, as “an Israelite with Egyptian principles.” Even in the North, many sympathized with the South and only a very few were abolitionists. Almost all Jews sought peace above all else. Until the war was at hand, they remained silent on the subject.
For me, that silence is problematic.


Read more: http://forward.com/articles/179441/jews-mostly-supported-slavery-or-kept-silent-d/?p=all#ixzz3Sg8XJVxu

  

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Mongo
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30. "The Slaves of Charleston"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

http://forward.com/articles/205455/slaves-of-charleston/?p=all

So what did it mean to be a Jewish citizen of Charleston during the early years of the 19th century? The story of Mordecai Cohen allows us to understand a small part of the privilege and price of being a leading Jewish citizen of Charleston.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/205455/slaves-of-charleston/?p=all#ixzz3Sg956lig

  

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lfresh
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Tue Feb-24-15 11:00 AM

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29. "kinda"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in that if something goes wrong fingers get pointed invariably at us or them

and now we can add muslims to the mix
yay?
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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vee-lover
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32. "There's difference: We (Negroes) were in the boat...Jews financed them"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Mongo
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33. "I hate this statement, but have nothing to counter it with."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

We're obviously not solely responsible for the trans-atlantic slave trade, but some of us participated and those that didn't didn't do much to stop it.

  

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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
14614 posts
Tue Feb-24-15 06:31 PM

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35. "blks historically leaned on story of jewish bondage, moses, pharoah"
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and gaining freedom

similarities there are obvious



later generations continued the "we need to do like the jews and ___" style of thinking


and of course there are those in current times who think the story of judaism is so similar, that it is in fact their story to begin with. READ!



)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Tue Feb-24-15 09:24 PM

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37. "I dunno where to start there"
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On one hand, I don't think the two groups were "in the same boat," but they do have some commonalities in their history around the world and, in the United States, their culture.

On the other, I think your wake-up moment here is a little odd. I won't say this is isolated or the only example you could find of Jews participating in the transatlantic slave trade, but they were hardly a huge part of it either.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Tue Feb-24-15 11:11 PM

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40. "Confederacy's first Secretary of War AND State was Jewish."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

It was not a shining moment for us as a people.

I think like most things, our position history in the slave trade is nuanced by a very relative power structure -- one that was more rigid in the Old World than the New. In North America and the Caribbean, we were far more emancipated, and were allowed in many cases (prior to the great waves of immigration in late 19th/early 20th centuries) to assimilate, especially in the South... which is interesting and ironic given how the South is viewed as this intolerant backwater even today. That privilege clearly impacted our presence and role in chattel slavery, which was considered acceptable, and created a kind of padding for us -- we were no longer the lowest on the totem pole, why not indulge a little? Everyone else is doing it.

And that doesn't negate later waves of socialists, abolitionists, racists, progressives, and everything in between. It's just due diligence. Our claws are not completely clean.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Tue Feb-24-15 11:56 PM

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41. "Some sources say heavily others say minimally"
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______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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