The usuals are MJ or Prince. Or Jodeci or Boyz II Men. I posit that the musical choice fork in the road for hip hop & Black Americans is Public Enemy or NWA. Discuss.
10. "Yeah production improved, but by this point I was so much Team Cube" In response to Reply # 9
I couldn't even look at them the same way.
Kind of like how I couldn't look at Cube the same way after Common dissed him.
The ultimately diss track is one that makes you stop liking an artist you formerly f'd with.
Actually I am miss remembering it. I backed into NWA. I was a PE fan. Got interested in Ice Cube through the PE Collaboration. And checked for NWA after I was fully an Ice Cube fan. Going into it that way there was no way I was fully going to appreciate NWA like that.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r
PE was more consistent, but I just think Straight Outta Compton was that shit x10.
PE had a greater message for sure. And hell, Bomb Squad influenced songs like "Straight Outta Compton"....but I prefer NWA's overall energy, songs, personality, production (yes, early Dre over Bomb Squad), and even their initial approach on their first album.
13. "geto boyz? really? FOH" In response to Reply # 6
Scarface is one of the more overrated niggers ever. willie d and bushwhick bill, although we all like them, were both vastly subpar rappers in every aspect. willie d and bushwhick make the group home sound rakim and kane.
30. "Tommy...you go eat (c) Martin" In response to Reply # 13
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
14. "Sonically: NWA (it's close tho) - influence: NWA by miles...PE was" In response to Reply # 0 Wed Feb-18-15 11:06 AM by vee-lover
a great group no doubt but everything abt them was like lightning in a bottle
Which is why I don't think they we're meant to have longevity in the rap game like a lot of other groups (they had abt a good 3-4 yr run)...plus, the "conscious rap" eventually got drowned out by "gangsta rap" which was given birth to, for better or worse, by NWA...
22. "At first I thought you were talking about NWA" In response to Reply # 14
being not meant for longevity.
Public Enemy is still touring the world/putting out albums as a unit. They might not be a huge act anymore, but you can't say they didn't last in the game
R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017
31. "No longevity? You mean the PE that just sold out a tour last year" In response to Reply # 14
at the arena level? The PE that makes albums between tours, and not the other way around? The PE that has toured constantly since 1987? Jesus Christ, this place is insane sometimes.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
52. "What ? Your wife does not know who PE is in 2023 ?" In response to Reply # 48
The second song is off an album that was put out after ITAN and FOAB so I understand if someone never heard of that, but anyone into any kind of Hip Hop who is asking some of these questions and making theses statements at the end of this thread must be very young.
55. "I'm trying to get a perspective outside of my own is all lol" In response to Reply # 48
I'm not doubting they are well known but I feel I have a bias and might not properly understand how big some acts are in relation to other acts.
I feel like Rakim and Slick Rick are really big, not MJ levels but for Hip Hop they are acts that any grown person knows of.
This question comes from a separate conversation where I had mentioned Rakim and Slick Rick as being big Hip Hop acts and the response I got was that they aren't known by the general population yet NWA and PE is. That was surprising to me. Not saying it's wrong I just want to understand how out of the loop I am. I would had mentioned them all in the same breath/tier.
I do feel like NWA as a group was mostly forgotten/eclipsed by the fame of Dre and Ice Cube and didn't know if the general population even made the connection to the group. Heads that were around then would but everyone else I wasn't too sure about. With the movie I think it would be hard to imagine people don't know them now and maybe they always did.
PE is interesting, I know they were huge when they came out. I feel like everyone has seen Do the Right Thing so they at minimum know about them from that. I did forget Flava had a show and his own thing going on 20 years ago lol So I can see how even if the current gen doesn't listen to them they do at least know about them.
Bottom line, I was trying to understand how big of a distance is there between Rakim/Slick Rick and PE/NWA.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79560 posts
Wed Apr-12-23 10:03 AM
39. "PE had a world tour with Anthrax in 1991" In response to Reply # 36 Wed Apr-12-23 10:13 AM by legsdiamond
They were on Run DMC levels as far as crossover goes
and PE has always been well known in the rap game and Black America.
For me, one of the most important groups in music due to their production, message and stage performance.
They had the S1W’s bruh.. shit was hard af.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79560 posts
Wed Apr-12-23 10:16 AM
42. "hell yeah.. but I think Childrens Story" In response to Reply # 41
may still be the most well known song.. lol.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79560 posts
Wed Apr-12-23 02:20 PM
68. "This is a loaded question" In response to Reply # 41
Slick Rick has been around a LONG TIME and was on The Show with Doug E Fresh.
He also has one of the best albums of all time from that era and a timeless song (Childrens Story)
Rakim is probably less known world wide than SR and PE.
But Rakim also changed rap forever with his lyrical dexterity.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
70. "I think the short answer is yes" In response to Reply # 68
The more I think about it PE was a known group through the late 90s. I don't know that the general public was aware even thinking about Rakim by that point until Addictive. Rakim never really had much of an impact outside of rap. As much as I love him and his stuck in my top 5 forever the general public in 2023 probably doesn't know him that much. Throw Paid in Full on and it'll get a reaction but it would not be shocking if a lot of people didn't know him.
Slick Rick has had notable features past his peak and his style really makes him memorable so I think more people that aren't into rap probably know him compared to Rakim. I do think both are generally known but not quite as "big" to people outside of rap circles.
PE I think made a big enough mark and has plenty of impact outside of music to be known by general public even now. Doesn't mean they all are into the music but they at least recognize the logo and the name even if it is only for Flava Flav.
NWA is the weird one. I grew up on them so it's hard for me to consider someone that came up in the early 2000s. Sure they would know Dr. Dre and Ice Cube but did they really know or care about NWA before the Straight out of Compton movie? Someone that's a hip hop head would but someone who isn't? I think they would recognize the merchandise but it would be surprising if they were actually into the music. I don't know if I'm right but to me it seemed like the movie really increased their profile to people outside of rap circles and younger generations that are into rap. If that movie hadn't happen I would think the biggest of these names in order would be PE, NWA, Slick Rick then Rakim.
Are any of those as big as 2 Pac or Biggie? Jay-Z, Kendrick?
Obviously to old heads that grew up on PE and NWA they are still huge and the memories of them don't go away but we're talking about 30+ years ago.
I love De La but I don't think they're in the top 10/20 most known rap acts of all time. I might feel they are the best and most important but that doesn't make them the most known.
What's pretty cool is that it does seem like a lot of old school rap acts are being remembered as much as 70s rock acts were being remembered in the 90s. I was always worried they wouldn't be.
but NWA blew my mind away when I first heard them.
but the message and that loud ass production of PE are undeniable. One of my favorite groups.
When I put them on my wife is like “awwwwe shit!!, here he goes”
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
53. "i'm not reducing their accomplishments." In response to Reply # 51
obviously there are/were people that would listen to all kinds of hip hop, but back then, the music didn't travel the same way.
on top of that, on the West Coast, gang culture was so prevalent that there were A LOT of rap music listeners HERE who were not checking for anything else outside of that sound. up until 1990-1991, most people *I* knew were almost strictly listening West Coast rap, with few exceptions. at the same time, you had a lot of East Coast rap fans who did not like the violence and misogyny of West Coast rap, and wouldn't give it the time of day.
and even if they were listening to music from other locales, their focus was still on the music from closer to where they were from.
thus, there was a territoriality (is that word) to the music that just doesn't exist today.
Oh so Rappers Delight, The Message and Fight the Power never made it to the West Coast ? I guess Do The Right Thing, Krush Groove never played in any theaters. Nobody was break dancing and if they did it was only to Ice T.
KDAY didn't play any "East Coast" rap ever ?
Yes I watch documentaries but I can think for myself.
60. "i'm not mad. i'm irritated because you're being annoying." In response to Reply # 58
i typed this?:
"Oh so Rappers Delight, The Message and Fight the Power never made it to the West Coast ? I guess Do The Right Thing, Krush Groove never played in any theaters. Nobody was break dancing and if they did it was only to Ice T.
KDAY didn't play any "East Coast" rap ever ?"
no, didn't type any of that. you made all that stuff up in your head despite me never saying NOR implying any of that.
so yes, you made shit up.
you don't even realize that you actually seem mad about PE. i love PE. i'm not taking ANY credit from them. i hope that makes you feel better.
"most people *I* knew were almost strictly listening West Coast rap, with few exceptions. at the same time, you had a lot of East Coast rap fans who did not like the violence and misogyny of West Coast rap, and wouldn't give it the time of day."
"and even if they were listening to music from other locales, their focus was still on the music from closer to where they were from."
If that wasn't bad enough you ask if I ever watched a documentary.
The fact you don't know everything you typed is terrible, incredible.
I hope your island bubble west coast makes you feel good about the documentaries that spoon fed you.
62. "boy, you are PRESSED." In response to Reply # 61 Wed Apr-12-23 12:06 PM by PROMO
this is the truth:
"the music didn't travel the same way"
"most people *I* knew were almost strictly listening West Coast rap, with few exceptions. at the same time, you had a lot of East Coast rap fans who did not like the violence and misogyny of West Coast rap, and wouldn't give it the time of day."
"and even if they were listening to music from other locales, their focus was still on the music from closer to where they were from.
how old are you? were on the West Coast in the 80s? are you saying i'm making up my LIVED EXPERIENCE?
you act like muthafuckas had cell phones and spotify in 1988. you had to actually buy a tape and if you didn't like it you were stuck w/ it, so people were a lot more selective about what they bought. SO YEAH, THE MUSIC DIDN'T TRAVEL THE SAME WAY.
65. "RE: Boy ? Where ? Only a Black Man here. boy" In response to Reply # 64 Wed Apr-12-23 12:28 PM by PROMO
> > >I asked did KDAY ever play any other Hip Hop besides gangsta. >You decided to talk about me. > >Are you saying you speak for all the people on both coast when >you say what they would and would not listen too ? > >Have you heard of radio ? You do realize you are not the only >one with a "LIVED EXPERIENCE" ? > >I know it's part of the white privilege thing, but you can't >speak for everyone. > >
wasn't call YOU "boy" for one thing, so let's get that straight. stick the "oh" in front of it in case you didn't understand that.
last thing i'll say once again, is that i never said or implied anything about what KDAY played, or radio. of course radio wasn't ONLY playing gangster rap, for fucks sake. BUT, the fact that you can't acknowledge that there was regionalism is rap's earlier days is hilarious and ill informed.
doesn't have shit to do with white privilege. but if that's what you think? cool. i'm not trying to change your mind. you don't know shit about me or how/where/who i was with when i grew up, but feel free to think whatever you want.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79560 posts
Wed Apr-12-23 10:29 AM
47. "plenty of friends preferred NWA in Pittsburgh" In response to Reply # 40
we are more midwesty with our rap music tho
but it was mostly because we had never heard that much cursing and just blatant disregard for cops/authority.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
66. "not sure what age you are exactly..." In response to Reply # 47 Wed Apr-12-23 12:31 PM by PROMO
so maybe you can't answer, but were there guys from in or around that area in the 80s/early 90s that were big there, or were you pretty much just listening to music from either coast? did you get any southern rap there?
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79560 posts
Wed Apr-12-23 01:55 PM
67. "I’m old as hell.. old enough to be around for the beginning of rap" In response to Reply # 66
Before rap hit radio it was just cassette tapes and dubbed college radio or someone going to NYC and taping radio stations that played rap.
Run DMC, Fat Boys, PE, BDP, LL, etc.. this was mid 80’s.
then a few years later Ice T, NWA and Ghetto Boys hit the scene.
but I used to take my nephew to Park Slope in BK in the summers around 89 so I was always bringing back tapes of NY rap.
Posse on Broadway was prolly the first west coast rap video I remember. Had no idea he was from Seattle.
and funny enough, World Class Wreckin Crew’s cut Before you turn off the lights got burn on local radio in Pittsburgh.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
69. "I'm old and from STL which is basically the Midwest of the Midwest lol....." In response to Reply # 47
we pretty much listened to everything, East coast, West coast, down South, Midwest, then we had our own regional stuff some of which eventually went national.
I think its more of a generational and cultural thing. I feel like PE as a group had a longer run and more crossover appeal. NWA had their own appeal because they were blatantly talking about things on records that had only been hinted at before. NY is the birthplace of hip hop so basically all of the early artists from other areas basically "grew up" on NY/East coast rap.
>we are more midwesty with our rap music tho > >but it was mostly because we had never heard that much cursing >and just blatant disregard for cops/authority.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79560 posts
Wed Apr-12-23 03:53 PM
71. "yeah.. we aren’t officially midwest but Pittsburgh aint East Coast" In response to Reply # 69
and you are correct, there was no East vs West in the mid 80’s
we were just happy to hear any type of rap instead of R&B.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
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