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Subject: "'Hip-Hop Has Done More Damage To Black/Brown People Than Racism-" Previous topic | Next topic
DavidHasselhoff
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11451 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 06:44 AM

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"'Hip-Hop Has Done More Damage To Black/Brown People Than Racism-"


          

In The Last 10 Years'
Says Geraldo Rivera
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/17/geraldo-rivera-hip-hop-racism_n_6701628.html

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Geraldo can mop the viewing booths of an adult bookstore
Feb 18th 2015
1
Josh was like "DAMN folk...."
Feb 18th 2015
2
I hesitate to agree w/ Rivera but...
Feb 18th 2015
3
I don't know if it's worse than racism...
Feb 18th 2015
5
mainstream hip hop is controlled by racists though.
Feb 18th 2015
6
      It's not controlled solely by racists.
Feb 18th 2015
9
      but in this scenario, Hip Hop, ALL of it, is on trial.
Feb 18th 2015
15
      RE: mainstream hip hop is controlled by racists though.
Feb 18th 2015
157
but worse than racism?
Feb 18th 2015
7
MORE damage than racism though?
Feb 18th 2015
8
He set a 10yr parameter in his statement
Feb 18th 2015
26
      school to prision pipeline vs. hip hop
Feb 18th 2015
31
           So that's all this is is kid's w/ bad tastes in music and fashion?
Feb 18th 2015
47
                I know old person rants when I hear them.
Feb 18th 2015
61
                     Exactly, they used to say the same things about Jazz
Feb 18th 2015
126
                     ^^^^^^^
Feb 19th 2015
247
What are the effects of hip-hop music (bad or good) on black folks?
Feb 18th 2015
11
i tend to agree.
Feb 18th 2015
13
The effects aren't necessarily measureable or tangeable but...
Feb 18th 2015
39
      What are some of the effects?
Feb 18th 2015
53
           There are certain negative aspects and behaviors in mainstream hip hop.....
Feb 18th 2015
66
                but here's the rub:
Feb 18th 2015
69
                The counter argument is that all of these things existed well before hip...
Feb 18th 2015
75
Then stop blaming Hip Hop, and blame the white supremacist
Feb 18th 2015
239
racism has done more damage to hip-hop than saggy jeans n/m
Feb 18th 2015
4
Relevant. https://vine.co/v/OMaJ3tphVIw
Feb 18th 2015
10
GODDAMN he dumb
Feb 18th 2015
12
I need to see some receipts.
Feb 18th 2015
14
Last 20 years has white kids consuming as much hip-hop
Feb 18th 2015
16
most black kids who listen to hh ain't all up in the trap. Or the club.
Feb 18th 2015
18
^^^^^^^^^^^
Feb 18th 2015
74
no. and i hold the audience more accountable than the influence
Feb 18th 2015
17
How do we allow it to have negative influence?
Feb 18th 2015
19
What was doing the damage before hip-hop though?
Feb 18th 2015
20
Aliens
Feb 18th 2015
21
^^^ That's where I'm at
Feb 18th 2015
22
drugs and gangs
Feb 18th 2015
28
your concept of history is skewed.
Feb 18th 2015
33
RE: your concept of history is skewed.
Feb 18th 2015
37
crack & gang violence ravaged the hood while Afrocentric rap was king.
Feb 18th 2015
40
      It served as a balance...
Feb 18th 2015
45
      so w/o it we all would've smoked crack and set tripped?
Feb 18th 2015
50
           Ah ok...I see we're acting brand new.
Feb 18th 2015
73
                i'm just trying to follow you and your newness.
Feb 18th 2015
85
                     This is ur schtick so I'm gona let u roll w/ it.
Feb 18th 2015
99
                          i was rolling w/you though.
Feb 18th 2015
102
      Afrocentric rap tried it's best to confront crack, gangs, etc...
Feb 18th 2015
51
      okay. and that says what?
Feb 18th 2015
55
           it says what it said nigga... wtf
Feb 18th 2015
57
                great.
Feb 18th 2015
58
      RE: crack & gang violence ravaged the hood while Afrocentric rap was kin...
Feb 18th 2015
70
           RE: crack & gang violence ravaged the hood while Afrocentric rap was kin...
Feb 18th 2015
84
                RE: crack & gang violence ravaged the hood while Afrocentric rap was kin...
Feb 18th 2015
103
                     most ppl's arms are too short to box w/me. lol
Feb 18th 2015
105
                          RE: most ppl's arms are too short to box w/me. lol
Feb 18th 2015
107
                               solid.
Feb 18th 2015
109
wasn't alive fam
Feb 18th 2015
43
      right.
Feb 18th 2015
65
           naw i think u must have misread
Feb 18th 2015
94
Rap music spur people into joining gangs and doing drugs?
Feb 18th 2015
34
      RE: Rap music spur people into joining gangs and doing drugs?
Feb 18th 2015
38
      i think it's disingenous to say that HH saved many ppl's lives.
Feb 18th 2015
41
           You live in Chicago, that's proof enough.
Feb 18th 2015
54
                Keef's music is the reason he caught cases?
Feb 18th 2015
56
                yea that's why i ignored his question above
Feb 18th 2015
60
                     i also represent dudes who commit crime.
Feb 18th 2015
62
                          RE: i also represent dudes who commit crime.
Feb 18th 2015
68
                          no dude i'm in court right now about to give an opening statement
Feb 18th 2015
71
                               RE: no dude i'm in court right now about to give an opening statement
Feb 18th 2015
78
                                    shit. i need to ask for a continuance.
Feb 18th 2015
86
                          You'd use rap lyrics if you were a prosecutor!!!
Feb 18th 2015
77
                               FUCK. i am REALLY bad at this.
Feb 18th 2015
87
      wat
Feb 18th 2015
46
*cough* jesus *cough-cough-cough*
Feb 18th 2015
35
lol!
Feb 18th 2015
100
funk music
Feb 18th 2015
79
I'll say it again, the comment gave a 10yr parameter
Feb 18th 2015
113
      and in these same ten years Dr. Ben Carson
Feb 18th 2015
199
Yeah what exactly is the damage being done by Hip-hop?
Feb 18th 2015
23
Sounds alot like that cunt Thomas Chatterton Williams
Feb 18th 2015
24
lol. i won't een discuss this based on dumbfuck geraldo quotes.
Feb 18th 2015
25
Geraldo's been punched in the nose for less...
Feb 18th 2015
42
Wrong pay this no mind nigga never heard of universal zulu nation
Feb 18th 2015
27
nigga been doin 4much tryna get that coulter-money
Feb 18th 2015
29
ultimately, music has no effect, good or bad, on human behavior
Feb 18th 2015
30
I never ever ran from the Ku Klux Klan...
Feb 18th 2015
32
No, but racism has done damage to hiphop.
Feb 18th 2015
36
Before ppl get all reactionary, I would just let to ask what has been
Feb 18th 2015
44
Oh you know, and so do they. It's just uncomfortable to admit it.
Feb 18th 2015
48
i'm not sure HH has been a cultural movement since 2005.
Feb 18th 2015
52
And therein lies the problem and why this is a discussion worth having
Feb 18th 2015
72
      not when it's presented as Geraldo presented it.
Feb 18th 2015
98
           He didn't say anything I haven't heard artists like MOP/Big Daddy
Feb 18th 2015
111
                naw. G was full of shit. and anyone who agrees is full of shit.
Feb 18th 2015
120
                Well I guess you are the authority on all things HipHop and blk youth
Feb 18th 2015
123
                     Yup
Feb 18th 2015
132
                     and you're still pathetically wrong but do you
Feb 18th 2015
150
                          *tips hat*
Feb 18th 2015
151
                     Hello
Feb 18th 2015
133
                LOL@using MOP as an example. Thats the problem, you guys hate youth
Feb 18th 2015
162
                     nah.. MOP and Mobb Deep weren't any better...
Feb 18th 2015
171
                     I like how you singled out MOP in all the artists I mentioned but aside
Feb 18th 2015
195
                          So what is it then champ?
Feb 18th 2015
216
I think people completely missed the 10 year part...
Feb 18th 2015
67
      I'm sitting back reading the responses and I know they did
Feb 18th 2015
      reply 31 and 61
Feb 18th 2015
97
      And I think you're completely wrong
Feb 18th 2015
121
      RE: reply no. 199 Michael Steele
Feb 18th 2015
202
Without Racism and Classism, Hip Hop Doesn't exist
Feb 18th 2015
49
if we are talking about the elements im not sure i agree
Feb 18th 2015
127
      If it wasn't for the decision to take music out of schools
Feb 18th 2015
136
           RE: If it wasn't for the decision to take music out of schools
Feb 18th 2015
141
           thats where im coming from as well re: club culture
Feb 18th 2015
148
                RE: thats where im coming from as well re: club culture
Feb 18th 2015
166
           im not sure its a simple A -> B progression
Feb 18th 2015
142
                it's just part of a narrative people swallowed up
Feb 18th 2015
209
that's giving hip hop way too much credit. it ain't THAT influential
Feb 18th 2015
59
well yeah but when they taught us about the BCRM
Feb 18th 2015
63
it's a part of the culture
Feb 18th 2015
76
      You couldn't have said it any more clearer.
Feb 18th 2015
129
      White supremacist corps only pay a Black guy like Keef
Feb 18th 2015
243
rappers rap about shooting ppl.
Feb 18th 2015
64
RE: rappers rap about shooting ppl.
Feb 18th 2015
83
okay so i do get y'all's point.
Feb 18th 2015
89
      RE: okay so i do get y'all's point.
Feb 18th 2015
95
           yes, i am denying pop's influence on ppl.
Feb 18th 2015
101
                RE: yes, i am denying pop's influence on ppl.
Feb 18th 2015
115
                     i dunno.
Feb 18th 2015
118
                          RE: i dunno.
Feb 18th 2015
134
                               yup. and i was DEAD SERIOUS when i said
Feb 18th 2015
152
                                    RE: yup. and i was DEAD SERIOUS when i said
Feb 18th 2015
158
                                         too bad that i was SO SERIOUS about that point then.
Feb 18th 2015
161
                                              RE: too bad that i was SO SERIOUS about that point then.
Feb 18th 2015
170
                                                   you just now see that?
Feb 18th 2015
176
                                                        RE: you just now see that?
Feb 18th 2015
190
                                                             LOL!
Feb 18th 2015
193
RE: rappers rap about shooting ppl.
Feb 18th 2015
88
      and they grow those nasty braids or whatever too.
Feb 18th 2015
91
In the Last 10 Years - AKA The Advent of the Ringtone Rapper
Feb 18th 2015
80
RE: 'Hip-Hop Has Done More Damage To Black/Brown People Than Racism-
Feb 18th 2015
81
RE: 'Hip-Hop Has Done More Damage To Black/Brown People Than Racism-
Feb 18th 2015
90
      Smdh
Feb 18th 2015
219
The fact that this is even debatable is pretty damned ridiculous
Feb 18th 2015
82
RE: The fact that this is even debatable is pretty damned ridiculous
Feb 18th 2015
92
      You can critique rap (and any other artform) all day
Feb 18th 2015
106
           RE: You can critique rap (and any other artform) all day
Feb 18th 2015
114
why do pundits assume only old white ppl understand irony and hyperbole?
Feb 18th 2015
93
RE: why do pundits assume only old white ppl understand irony and hyperb...
Feb 18th 2015
96
they think we're that stupid. and some of US think so too.
Feb 18th 2015
104
the average poster on here doesn't understand those concepts
Feb 18th 2015
108
      Yea, but Ross still had a booming career AFTER that
Feb 18th 2015
110
      And look what he's promoting in his music - look at what he has "rein
Feb 18th 2015
119
      steely dan is named after a gas powered dildo.
Feb 18th 2015
138
           fans of Steely Dan don't have the same connection to their music as
Feb 18th 2015
146
                you are calling black youth stupid.
Feb 18th 2015
149
                     Many of them are lol...or I prefer to call a lot of misguided blk youth
Feb 18th 2015
155
                          the kids are alright.
Feb 18th 2015
159
                          the arguments rely on such awful stereotypes about our kids.
Feb 18th 2015
163
                               Or in my case, it comes from having hands-on experiences w/kids
Feb 18th 2015
167
                                    you sound like an adult kids tune out.
Feb 18th 2015
173
                                    And you sound like someone who doesn't have any real life experiences
Feb 18th 2015
201
                                         they're most likely to listen to their parents.
Feb 18th 2015
211
                                         kids listen to parents, peers, and adults that don't sound clueless.
Feb 18th 2015
220
                                    funny thing about that.
Feb 18th 2015
174
                                    who the fuck said rap turns kids into gangster zombies?
Feb 18th 2015
178
                                         sure.
Feb 18th 2015
180
                                    this is what makes it so hilarious...
Feb 18th 2015
175
                                         i've done both.
Feb 18th 2015
177
                                         You are a lawyer? I had no idea.
Feb 18th 2015
179
                                         and you'd be wrong in both cases.
Feb 18th 2015
181
                                         sure thing chief
Feb 18th 2015
183
                                              I just make shit up.
Feb 18th 2015
187
                                         I was.
Feb 18th 2015
185
                          truuuuue
Feb 18th 2015
160
      he flipped the narrative into him doing shady stuff as a CO
Feb 18th 2015
122
           or maybe his fans just think he makes hot records.
Feb 18th 2015
125
                Officer Ricky has a great ear for beats...
Feb 18th 2015
137
                maybe that's why kids like it?
Feb 18th 2015
140
                     deep like Atlantis...
Feb 18th 2015
169
                but the fact that there are plenty of ppl I know and have heard say
Feb 18th 2015
139
                     okay.
Feb 18th 2015
147
                          You really don't think ppl take HipHop that seriously? Do I need to
Feb 18th 2015
153
                               I remember 2 niggas got shot.
Feb 18th 2015
154
                                    So it was only abt Pac/Death Row vs Biggie/Bad Boy beefing, huh? Aight
Feb 18th 2015
156
                                         smh... they know they just don't want to admit it
Feb 18th 2015
182
                                              were you in a gang back then?
Feb 18th 2015
184
                                              yeah I was in a gang...
Feb 18th 2015
233
                                              i was in my early 20s then.
Feb 18th 2015
186
                                              Come on, man. There was absolutely nothing "real" about that...
Feb 18th 2015
197
                                              you obviously didn't live the shit like he did.
Feb 18th 2015
205
                                              So the threats aimed at those respective record labels were only
Feb 18th 2015
213
                                                   *SMH* Man, this is by far one of the worst posts in OKP history n/m
Feb 18th 2015
217
                                                   my GOD man.
Feb 18th 2015
222
                                                   this is embarrassing
Feb 18th 2015
224
                                              LMAO....yo said that ...i hope this site never ever changes
Feb 18th 2015
204
                                                   can you imagine him talking to kids about this shit?
Feb 18th 2015
212
      I didn't realize so many ppl were more cynical than me.
Feb 18th 2015
116
           it's not about being dumb
Feb 18th 2015
124
                RE: it's not about being dumb
Feb 18th 2015
130
                HipHop's reach far exceeds that of any other music genre...
Feb 18th 2015
131
                     yet dre, cube, rick ross, and dozens of other posers have vibrant career...
Feb 18th 2015
135
                     that same shit happened and happens in Rock.
Feb 18th 2015
164
lol @ anyone agreeing with him while on this site
Feb 18th 2015
112
RE: lol @ anyone agreeing with him while on this site
Feb 18th 2015
143
Right?
Feb 18th 2015
244
people who write/think this goofy shit watch too much tv....
Feb 18th 2015
117
Goddamn man, are you guys serious?? GERALDO FUCKING RIVERA
Feb 18th 2015
128
right. like, how are people seriously entertaining this?
Feb 18th 2015
144
next on geraldo: video games about war have done more damage than war
Feb 18th 2015
145
Just to remind everyone, black people are doing better than ever
Feb 18th 2015
165
This is actually correct.
Feb 18th 2015
168
LOFL. perfectly executed
Feb 18th 2015
218
No.
Feb 18th 2015
172
No, and it's not even close
Feb 18th 2015
188
people who think conscious rap doesnt exist anymore fascinate me
Feb 18th 2015
189
Man there is SO MUCH GREAT MUSIC out there
Feb 18th 2015
192
      pretty sure no one in here is making that argument.
Feb 18th 2015
194
           And also I keep noticing how the posters keep personalizing this issue
Feb 18th 2015
196
           yeah. some of us see that we are not so different from them.
Feb 18th 2015
200
           Or some of ya'll simply don't know what the hell you're talking abt
Feb 18th 2015
203
                like saying something doesnt exist when it does?
Feb 18th 2015
207
                I see you know all abt it
Feb 18th 2015
214
                lol
Feb 18th 2015
208
           dog, no.
Feb 18th 2015
210
           RE: dog, no.
Feb 18th 2015
223
                this is flat out wrong.
Feb 18th 2015
225
                     Ok, show me the national outrage of the killings - where's the t-shirts
Feb 18th 2015
227
                          ?
Feb 18th 2015
229
                               Both those articles are taking abt local protest marches...
Feb 18th 2015
230
                                    yup.
Feb 18th 2015
232
                                    RE: yup.
Feb 18th 2015
237
                                    fine- niggers ain't good for nothing.
Feb 18th 2015
234
           AGAIN, in the last 10 years
Feb 18th 2015
215
           I guess all the data abt how blk ppl were disproportionately affected
Feb 18th 2015
228
                RE: come on bro. not. like. this.
Feb 18th 2015
238
                     RE: come on bro. not. like. this.
Feb 18th 2015
240
           Man, most of us were that "average black teenager"
Feb 18th 2015
221
           reply #72
Feb 18th 2015
198
           well that niggas wrong
Feb 18th 2015
235
           dumb fuck
Feb 18th 2015
206
In the eyes of older white folks... he's probably right.
Feb 18th 2015
191
racists gonna be racist
Feb 18th 2015
245
Not more than racism
Feb 18th 2015
226
I agree
Feb 18th 2015
236
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IPsXSb0jjkI/maxresdefault.jpg
Feb 18th 2015
231
The Last 10 years?
Feb 18th 2015
241
Why even entertain this bullshit.
Feb 18th 2015
242
why do those people insist on giving a take on blk folks?
Feb 19th 2015
246
Geraldo just trying to find his new life mission...
Feb 19th 2015
248
Sooo, all discussion about personal responsibility need to be added to t...
Feb 19th 2015
249
Yeah I see...smh
Feb 19th 2015
250

KingMonte
Member since Feb 13th 2006
4675 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 07:11 AM

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1. "Geraldo can mop the viewing booths of an adult bookstore"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...with his mustache.

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44604 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 07:45 AM

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2. "Josh was like "DAMN folk...." "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

lol...

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
12348 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 07:58 AM

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3. "I hesitate to agree w/ Rivera but..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there's truth to what he saying...but it should be narrowed down to mainstream hip hop.

Black people have been saying this abt mainstream hip hop for years, and sadly, it's gotten worse year over year.

10yrs ago mainstream hip hop was in it's beginning stages of what it is now...highly materialistic, super ignorant, thug-centric music devoid of any real social commentary or art for that matter.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79352 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 08:22 AM

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5. "I don't know if it's worse than racism..."
In response to Reply # 3


          

but I agree main stream hip hop has hurt our youth...

pop music isn't any better but I guess that's a different argument.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11819 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 08:33 AM

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6. "mainstream hip hop is controlled by racists though."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

the people that pick, bankroll, and exploit what is digested as our image are literally only doing that to ONE group of people.

it would be like saying vampire movies have done more harm to women than misogyny. Does not compute.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 08:46 AM

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9. "It's not controlled solely by racists."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

It's controlled by people in general who put a premium on making money above whatever sorts of sociological or psychological effects the material they're putting out will have.

Some of these records that break big are made by black audiences and distributed by black owned record companies who only use major-labels for distribution. Some of this stuff breaks via the internet with no label involved at all.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11819 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:01 AM

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15. "but in this scenario, Hip Hop, ALL of it, is on trial."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

however as a general scope ALL of hip hop doesn't get to be mainstream. The mainstream backed hip hop, by and large, is destructive by design, because of it's racist agenda. R&B is going through something similar.

On the flip side, most wide artists (not genres) get to have a wide range of representation without it ever boiling down to any extrapolating indictment onto the entire race. Miley Cyrus was just wildin' in 2014 but then pops on SNL with her grandma's church affair outfit and sings a country song and all is well.

Racism is everywhere, even in Hip Hop. Hip Hop has done more to encourage the esteem of our identity, right or wrong, good or bad. When has racism ever done that?

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79352 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 02:23 PM

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157. "RE: mainstream hip hop is controlled by racists though."
In response to Reply # 6


          

which proves my point...

"a music industry where people have jobs who don't even like the shit" - Busta

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 08:39 AM

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7. "but worse than racism?"
In response to Reply # 3
Wed Feb-18-15 08:49 AM by b.Touch

  

          

Racism still has more of an impact on a wider variety of black people than hip-hop ever will into the foreseeable future.

Racism can affect all, repeat, ALL black people. Hip-hop can only affect those who are deep enough off into it, whether by choice or nurture/peer pressure. What negative influence does hip-hop have over a black kid who's a fan of international jazz? It has a negative influence on other people's perceptions of young black kids, yes, but if the kid's not listening to hip-hop - or even if they are and don't feel compelled to get a tattoo or act a fool in public - where's the negative effect?

And to be honest, hip-hop - specifically, the type of hip-hop played on mainstream radio - did more damage to young black culture during the ten years preceding these ten than these past ten. The music may be worse than ever, but it's still traveling in the same direction set during the mid 2000s and hasn't really done much to change course.

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Feb-18-15 08:40 AM

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8. "MORE damage than racism though?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Racism that has for centuries denied us education, housing, healthcare, employment, access, and wealth. Has broken up families and taken lives.

Hip hop has done more damage than that? No.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
12348 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 10:05 AM

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26. "He set a 10yr parameter in his statement"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Any discussion of hip hip vs racism changes dramatically when you expand that parameter.

W/in the confines of the 10yrs, mainstream rap has done the Black youth a great disservice and has had a noticeable negative effect on them.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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31. "school to prision pipeline vs. hip hop "
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

kids with bad taste in music
barely qualifies as a problem.

hell, for all I know, the music isn't even bad.
it just sucks to me becaue i'm old.



>Any discussion of hip hip vs racism changes dramatically when
>you expand that parameter.
>
>W/in the confines of the 10yrs, mainstream rap has done the
>Black youth a great disservice and has had a noticeable
>negative effect on them.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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47. "So that's all this is is kid's w/ bad tastes in music and fashion?"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

That statement let's me know how out of touch you are w/ this topic.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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61. "I know old person rants when I hear them. "
In response to Reply # 47
Wed Feb-18-15 11:46 AM by Joe Corn Mo

  

          

>That statement let's me know how out of touch you are w/ this
>topic.


This nonsense about rap glorifying bad behavior
and promoting a moralaly inferior culture has been around
for as long as black music has.

they use the same words in their think pieces to spin this line.



And even if this theory had some validity
(and i don't think it does- I was able to
understand irony, hyperbole, and fantasy as a black kid
and I assume black kids understand those literary devices too- just like white kids didn't take Marilyn Manson and eminem literally)
that can't do more damage than the prison industrial complex
and the war on drugs and emplyment discrimination and
a dozen other systemic problems I could name off the top of my head.

I ain't the one out of touch here.

I hate new music, but I know enough about music (and its critics)
to know that this is some bullshit.

  

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ShinobiShaw
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126. "Exactly, they used to say the same things about Jazz"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Rock n Roll, Blues, R&B

R&B was raunchy and not wholesome
Rock n Roll would take over your mind and make you a hippy
etc etc.

Hip-hop has never denied anyone a bank loan or didn't allow them the same paycheck as their white peers.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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KiloMcG
Member since Jan 01st 2008
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247. "^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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11. "What are the effects of hip-hop music (bad or good) on black folks?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


>10yrs ago mainstream hip hop was in it's beginning stages of
>what it is now...highly materialistic, super ignorant,
>thug-centric music devoid of any real social commentary or art
>for that matter.

Personally, I think that trying to blame the condition of black folks on the effects of hip-hop is pretty silly.

  

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SoWhat
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13. "i tend to agree."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

But maybe they can show me som'n that'll change my mind.

fuck you.

  

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Stoogie
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39. "The effects aren't necessarily measureable or tangeable but..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

they are definitely noticeable.

And this isnt an all out blame game because I believe that's silly too but we need to own up to the negative things we can attribute back to mainstream hip hop.

Black people's overall condition has/is/was affected by racism, no doubt about that but in the last 10yrs hip hop has been racism's tip of the spear.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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Marbles
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53. "What are some of the effects?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>they are definitely noticeable.

What are some of the things that hip-hop has done to harm black folks? Specifically things that didn't exist before hip-hop (drugs, gangs, etc). What unique element did hip-hop add to the mix that dragged black folks down?

I'm with So What. I don't see it but I'm more than willing to listen to the opposing point of view.

  

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Stoogie
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66. "There are certain negative aspects and behaviors in mainstream hip hop....."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

that have become associated or synonomous w/ Black culture.

They are in no particular order...

Sagging pants
Gang Affiliation
Violence
Misogyny
Drug culture
Thug mentality
Extreme materialism
Hyper masculinity
Prison mentality

These prevalent themes in mainstream hip hop have changed the mind state of many young Black and Brown males (and females) in impoverished areas to the point that it's visibly noticeable in everything they do and say...they truly embody the music moreso than ever and that's scary. Whether art imitates life or life imitates art, it's painfully obvious that the art of mainstream hip hop is no longer that.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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69. "but here's the rub:"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

Whether art
>imitates life or life imitates art

i'm not convinced that the behavioral trends you've identified are all the product of HH consumption by our youth.

i'm not sure whether HH is reflecting and following trends that develop outside HH or whether the trends develop from HH consumption. or if there's a mix of both depending on who what and where we're talking about.

that list didn't convince me.

fuck you.

  

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Marbles
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75. "The counter argument is that all of these things existed well before hip..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          


>Sagging pants

This one I'll file under questionable fashion sense.

>Gang Affiliation
>Violence
>Misogyny
>Drug culture
>Thug mentality
>Extreme materialism
>Hyper masculinity
>Prison mentality

All of this? These have been issues for black folks before an MC rocked any party. No way on god's green earth did hip-hop cause any of this. If anything, hip-hop started speaking to these issues (or reflecting them).

>These prevalent themes in mainstream hip hop have changed the
>mind state of many young Black and Brown males (and females)
>in impoverished areas to the point that it's visibly
>noticeable in everything they do and say...they truly embody
>the music moreso than ever and that's scary. Whether art
>imitates life or life imitates art, it's painfully obvious
>that the art of mainstream hip hop is no longer that.

If it's anything, it's art imitating life. And there's no way that I can fault hip-hop for reflecting or talking about what already existed. They want hip-hop to be the scapegoat that causes us to look away from some of the real causes.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
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239. "Then stop blaming Hip Hop, and blame the white supremacist"
In response to Reply # 3


          

operation that only allows certain images of Black folks to be broadcast.

We're talking about a propaganda campaign.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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imcvspl
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4. "racism has done more damage to hip-hop than saggy jeans n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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kwez
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10. "Relevant. https://vine.co/v/OMaJ3tphVIw"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://vine.co/v/OMaJ3tphVIw

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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12. "GODDAMN he dumb"
In response to Reply # 0


          

one, the housing crisis ALONE has fucked up the black community more than hip-hop ever could, and that's just ONE thing.

2, hip-hop *is* mainstream culture. Trying to front like it ain't is dumb. And old.

3. Russell Simmons is responsible for...what, now..?

  

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SoWhat
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14. "I need to see some receipts."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck you.

  

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BigReg
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16. "Last 20 years has white kids consuming as much hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as their darkie compatriots.

Only thing is with them there is a distance between that reality and theirs. Thanks to.. 450 years of American subjugation and the various forms it takes..we aren't that lucky.

Take a kid who's family has been marginalized for generations and make him listen to country music and you aren't going to get much of a difference(similar to poor marginalized ofay in rural areas).

Its the copout "its the movies, its the videogames" answer when a kid goes and shoots up a school ignoring the fucked up ideas this country pumps out

  

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SoWhat
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18. "most black kids who listen to hh ain't all up in the trap. Or the club."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

So there's distance there too.

fuck you.

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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74. "^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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17. "no. and i hold the audience more accountable than the influence"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it ain't like black ppl are the only ones consuming modern hip hop
culturally we tend to allow it to have more of a negative influence though
which is 100% on us

~~~~~~

  

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SoWhat
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19. "How do we allow it to have negative influence?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Chanson
Member since Nov 09th 2004
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20. "What was doing the damage before hip-hop though?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because these problems aren't new.

mind
--------
matter

  

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SoWhat
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21. "Aliens"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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22. "^^^ That's where I'm at"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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28. "drugs and gangs"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

spurred by dumb niggas in the 70s dropping the momentum of the civil rights movement and falling for the okie doke

~~~~~~

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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33. "your concept of history is skewed. "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

maybe that's the wrong word.
but it's so different from mine that we
never agree on anything.

  

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ChanEpic
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37. "RE: your concept of history is skewed. "
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

his history may be skewed but there is some truth to it. What I remember when I was a young one was Hiphop transitioning from party / block party music in the ate 70's through the mid 80's to an afrocentric,rise up focused movement. You had Public Enemy, Poor righteous teachers, BDP etc DOMINATING the hiphop scene. Then, 2 live crew started moving units, and its been going downhill ever since.. IMHO. The civil rights era was straight up abandoned and we're suffering for it.

  

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SoWhat
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40. "crack & gang violence ravaged the hood while Afrocentric rap was king."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

what good did it do?

fuck you.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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45. "It served as a balance..."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

but that balance was thrown off when white people gave the new era of less Afro-centric rap commercial success...once the money train stars rolling then there's not much that can stop it.

When NWA garnered national attn via MTV it was all over at that point.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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50. "so w/o it we all would've smoked crack and set tripped?"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>but that balance was thrown off when white people gave the
>new era of less Afro-centric rap commercial success...once the
>money train stars rolling then there's not much that can stop
>it.
>
>When NWA garnered national attn via MTV it was all over at
>that point.

fuck you.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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73. "Ah ok...I see we're acting brand new."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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85. "i'm just trying to follow you and your newness."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

my bad.

fuck you.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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99. "This is ur schtick so I'm gona let u roll w/ it."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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102. "i was rolling w/you though."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

but okay.

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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51. "Afrocentric rap tried it's best to confront crack, gangs, etc..."
In response to Reply # 40


          

much better than shrugging and embracing it with crack rap, murder rap and the Source giving the recipe for cooking up crack in one if it's issues

  

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SoWhat
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55. "okay. and that says what?"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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57. "it says what it said nigga... wtf"
In response to Reply # 55


          

  

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SoWhat
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58. "great. "
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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70. "RE: crack & gang violence ravaged the hood while Afrocentric rap was kin..."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

The hip hop in the Afrocentric era was IN RESPONSE to the ravaging of the hood. The good it did is only knowable if you could somehow measure what would happen in our community had we not had afrocentric hiphop. It did SOME good but how much.. ? Beats me, some is better than none though.


Quick question, do you think twerking in music had anything to do with twerking going mainstream and around the world? If so, what's the difference? Influence is influence.

  

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SoWhat
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84. "RE: crack & gang violence ravaged the hood while Afrocentric rap was kin..."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

>Quick question, do you think twerking in music had anything to
>do with twerking going mainstream and around the world?

i'm not sure twerking went around the world but i'll assume it did.

i think music played a part.

If so,
>what's the difference? Influence is influence.

we do the Electric Slide at weddings b/c of music and videos. i think that's cute. i have no problem w/it.

i can't agree that b/c my aunties do the Electric Slide and my lil cousins twerk that niggas are shooting each other b/c they hear it in music. ppl are able to figure out that they shouldn't just blindly repeat every behavior they hear and see in music and videos. they do the dances b/c the dances are fun. they don't necessarily do the shooting b/c the shooting is dangerous and wrong and can have serious consequences. i think the shooting is about much more nefarious influence than HH music.

in a nutshell, i think the shooting is about a lack of value - the shooters don't value the lives of the targets. they don't value their communities. b/c they're relatively disenfranchised.

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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103. "RE: crack & gang violence ravaged the hood while Afrocentric rap was kin..."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

>>Quick question, do you think twerking in music had anything
>to
>>do with twerking going mainstream and around the world?
>
>i'm not sure twerking went around the world but i'll assume it
>did.
>
>i think music played a part.
>
> If so,
>>what's the difference? Influence is influence.
>
>we do the Electric Slide at weddings b/c of music and videos.
>i think that's cute. i have no problem w/it.
>
>i can't agree that b/c my aunties do the Electric Slide and my
>lil cousins twerk that niggas are shooting each other b/c they
>hear it in music. ppl are able to figure out that they
>shouldn't just blindly repeat every behavior they hear and see
>in music and videos. they do the dances b/c the dances are
>fun. they don't necessarily do the shooting b/c the shooting
>is dangerous and wrong and can have serious consequences. i
>think the shooting is about much more nefarious influence than
>HH music.
>
>in a nutshell, i think the shooting is about a lack of value -
>the shooters don't value the lives of the targets. they don't
>value their communities. b/c they're relatively
>disenfranchised.




Fam all of that you wrote, starting with twerking NOT going around the world after starting in hiphop videos/music is evidence, you're in it for the argument and consider me out of it. You're clowning man...

  

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SoWhat
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105. "most ppl's arms are too short to box w/me. lol"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

the main point was - niggas shoot each other b/c they don't love themselves or each other, not b/c some rapper rapped about shooting.

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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107. "RE: most ppl's arms are too short to box w/me. lol"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

They go hand in hand. I don't have a problem with your premise, I agree with you that broken people are the prime evil but negativity re-enforces self destruction and that is psych 101 stuff.

  

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SoWhat
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109. "solid."
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

fuck you.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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43. "wasn't alive fam"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

i'm basing all this off books, magazine articles, and netflix docs

~~~~~~

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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65. "right."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>i'm basing all this off books, magazine articles, and netflix
>docs
>


me too.

it's obvious that we have studied the same periods of time
and reached vastly different conclusions about everything.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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94. "naw i think u must have misread"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

you know how yall be emotional
i wasn't saying rap created drugs and gangs, go reread it this time while calm

~~~~~~

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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34. "Rap music spur people into joining gangs and doing drugs?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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ChanEpic
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38. "RE: Rap music spur people into joining gangs and doing drugs?"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

It doesn't? It's not 100% one way or 100% the other way but to suggest hiphop hasn't contributed negatively to people's life choices is just as disingenuous as saying hiphop hasn't SAVED many people's lives.

  

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SoWhat
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41. "i think it's disingenous to say that HH saved many ppl's lives."
In response to Reply # 38
Wed Feb-18-15 11:19 AM by SoWhat

  

          

>It doesn't? It's not 100% one way or 100% the other way but
>to suggest hiphop hasn't contributed negatively to people's
>life choices is just as disingenuous as saying hiphop hasn't
>SAVED many people's lives.

but if i see/hear some proof i'll reconsider.

fuck you.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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54. "You live in Chicago, that's proof enough."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Chief Keef is a perfect example of this whole discussion.

Not necessarily affected negatively by racism but definitely negative affected by mainstream hip hop AND the music he created.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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56. "Keef's music is the reason he caught cases?"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

fuck you.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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60. "yea that's why i ignored his question above"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

dude lives in one of the most hood cities in the midwest
and he doesn't understand how pop culture influences poor youth
k (c) soWhat

~~~~~~

  

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SoWhat
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62. "i also represent dudes who commit crime."
In response to Reply # 60
Wed Feb-18-15 11:42 AM by SoWhat

  

          

i guess i should be using HH lyrics in my defense?

'The rappers made him do it!'

but naw...if it's SO obvious it should be easily demonstrated.

so demonstrate it.

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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68. "RE: i also represent dudes who commit crime."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Are you seriously playing devil's advocate or just being contrary for fuck's sake? Courts would be foolish to accept the rap made me do it defense just the same they would be foolish to accept any external influence on crime. Poverty BREEDS crime there is NO question about that but have you ever seen an attorney successfully argue that poverty "made" him murder those people or steal that stuff?

  

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SoWhat
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71. "no dude i'm in court right now about to give an opening statement"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

you're saying i SHOULDN'T blame rap music for my client's alleged bad behavior???

but this post says.....

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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78. "RE: no dude i'm in court right now about to give an opening statement"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

No, I'm saying you'd be a fool to try and argue that in court. Just like trying to argue that poverty made me do a crime would be foolish as well but regardless there are plenty of studies that PROVE poverty is a very real cause of crime. You cannot be seriously claiming ignorance on this.

  

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SoWhat
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86. "shit. i need to ask for a continuance."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

thanks, player.

fuck you.

  

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Stoogie
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77. "You'd use rap lyrics if you were a prosecutor!!!"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

WTF, c'mon man.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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87. "FUCK. i am REALLY bad at this."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

i really need a new trial date.

fuck you.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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46. "wat"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

drug use and gang membership was spurred by ppl falling for the okie doke in the 70s
rap wasn't even in that reply , and the OG question was what was the problem before rap
smh

~~~~~~

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
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35. "*cough* jesus *cough-cough-cough*"
In response to Reply # 20
Wed Feb-18-15 10:59 AM by 2.tears.in.a.bucket

  

          


*clears throat*

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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DavidHasselhoff
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100. "lol!"
In response to Reply # 35


          

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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79. "funk music"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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113. "I'll say it again, the comment gave a 10yr parameter"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Before hip hop is irrelevant to comment made by GR.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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199. "and in these same ten years Dr. Ben Carson"
In response to Reply # 113
Wed Feb-18-15 04:21 PM by astralblak

  

          

Blacks in America, as collective data point, have never been more educated, healthier, financially successful, or socially mobile

record level lows of teen pregnancy, gang affiliation and violence, and drop out rates. again LOWS!

and even with that, Blacks (men and woman) are still the most incarcerated (though nearly 70% are for NON VIOLENT CRIMES), more likely to get suspended than their white peers in school, and still socially stigmatized and criminalized in media narratives and popular cultural productions

and even those numbers / statistics represent only 5-25% of the "community"

also Blacks who are educated and fully employed HAVE LESS NET WORTH than their white counterparts WITH HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS

BUT RAP....

FUCK. OUTTA. HERE.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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23. "Yeah what exactly is the damage being done by Hip-hop?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Are cats really committing more crimes because of Hip-hop? Dropping out of school?

Yeah its affecting the slang and style of dress but those factors aren't a bigger deal than straight up racism.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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24. "Sounds alot like that cunt Thomas Chatterton Williams"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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poetx
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25. "lol. i won't een discuss this based on dumbfuck geraldo quotes. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you'll have to repost it elsewhere and we can have the convo from scratch, minus his historic and shameless fuckery. /message

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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BigJazz
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42. "Geraldo's been punched in the nose for less..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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27. "Wrong pay this no mind nigga never heard of universal zulu nation"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

Rap is apart of Hip Hop its not Hip Hop completely.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
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29. "nigga been doin 4much tryna get that coulter-money"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-18-15 10:30 AM by 2.tears.in.a.bucket

  

          

lately every time he gets the chance he's shitting on blk folks

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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rdhull
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30. "ultimately, music has no effect, good or bad, on human behavior"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Geraldo is wrong

  

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ChanEpic
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32. "I never ever ran from the Ku Klux Klan..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And I shouldn't have to run fro a black man.
Self destruction, you're headed for self destruction...

I don't know that hiphop has done MORE damage to black and brown people than racism but rather, a lot of hip hop IS racism and self hatred. This is NOTHING NEW, there has been a civil war going on for 30 years,,

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
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36. "No, but racism has done damage to hiphop."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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44. "Before ppl get all reactionary, I would just let to ask what has been"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

HipHop's influence on blk youth or popular cultural in general since 2005?

Because what I *think* Geraldo is getting at is what many of the artists themselves and ppl who love HipHop have been complaining abt in regards to the musical direction as well as the social and activism side of the art form in the last decade or so...

So what has HipHop as a cultural movement been abt since 2005?

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
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48. "Oh you know, and so do they. It's just uncomfortable to admit it."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          


************************

  

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SoWhat
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52. "i'm not sure HH has been a cultural movement since 2005."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

i'm not sure HH has been a cultural movement for a couple decades now.

i don't see a concerted effort among a significant number of HH acts and fans and others to move toward anything in particular.

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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72. "And therein lies the problem and why this is a discussion worth having"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

So what is or has HipHop been abt since 2005?

I think we can all agree there's been a decline in the music from a lyrical and content standpoint

There's literally no such thing as "conscious rap" anymore

I think you could draw a timeline between 2005-present as to when this decline occurred in HipHop


>i'm not sure HH has been a cultural movement for a couple
>decades now.
>
>i don't see a concerted effort among a significant number of
>HH acts and fans and others to move toward anything in
>particular.
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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98. "not when it's presented as Geraldo presented it."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

G's point isn't worthy of discussion.

whether HH is or should be a cultural movement w/a goal and all that...that's another talk.

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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111. "He didn't say anything I haven't heard artists like MOP/Big Daddy"
In response to Reply # 98
Wed Feb-18-15 12:22 PM by vee-lover

  

          

Kane/Lord Jamar or even KRS ONE say in regards to how the new generation of HIpHoppers are dropping the ball w/preserving the art form

Whether it's the imagery they're promoting or the message or lack thereof in the music - the artists themselves have expressed their opinions no different than what Geradlo is saying

I could see if Geraldo made a blanket generalized statement abt HipHop that since it's inception it's only been a negative influence on blk and brown ppl...but he specifically said the last 10 years and there's a lot of truth to that...

I think we as a community get defensive, and understandably so, whenever the criticisms of us are coming from without..


>G's point isn't worthy of discussion.
>
>whether HH is or should be a cultural movement w/a goal and
>all that...that's another talk.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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120. "naw. G was full of shit. and anyone who agrees is full of shit."
In response to Reply # 111
Wed Feb-18-15 12:30 PM by SoWhat

  

          

period.

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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123. "Well I guess you are the authority on all things HipHop and blk youth"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

>period.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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132. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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150. "and you're still pathetically wrong but do you"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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151. "*tips hat*"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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133. "Hello"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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BigReg
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162. "LOL@using MOP as an example. Thats the problem, you guys hate youth"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

Facts:

1)Hip-hop (your mop example is prime) was AS violent in the golden era of the 90's as it is now. While we like singing along to classics, if you really listen to those lyrics outside of golden covered lenses much of it was fucked.

2)Crime is less then it was ten years ago.

know what is up though? people in jail, unemployment, decline in education standards

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:47 PM

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171. "nah.. MOP and Mobb Deep weren't any better... "
In response to Reply # 162


          

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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195. "I like how you singled out MOP in all the artists I mentioned but aside"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

from that, this ain't got shit to do w/"hatin youth" ...what an ignorant and idiotic thing to say

Now let me tackle what you said below...


>Facts:
>
>1)Hip-hop (your mop example is prime) was AS violent in the
>golden era of the 90's as it is now. While we like singing
>along to classics, if you really listen to those lyrics
>outside of golden covered lenses much of it was fucked.

Uh why was it called the "golden era," Sherlock??? Could it be because you had more sophisticated or "conscious rap" music in terms of content that involved issues pertinent to blk ppl to offer a balance to the more violent rap music that was starting to take over the music by the early to mid 90s

Now that balance is nearly obsolete - we're saturated w/inferior music ad nauseam...which is why I think artists like Kendrick Lamar and J Cole have been so well received by a lot of the older HipHop artists.


>
>2)Crime is less then it was ten years ago.

Ok, so by extension blk youth are doing better academically/socially/culturally than ever before??
>
>know what is up though? people in jail, unemployment, decline
>in education standards

-do blk ppl bare *some* responsiblity for willingly playing into the traps set by the larger society? Like glorifying seliing drugs when we know where the road will eventually lead to. To a lot of our youth "doing a prison bid" is a badge of honor.though..and garners more respect in some instances amongst their peers than getting a college degree..

And academically speaking, that's not all on the dominant society either - there's a level of anti-intellectualism amongst many in out community, too...we don't value education as much as parents/grandparents once did. And the lack of a quality education reduces your chances in the job market...so we have to quit acting as if we don't have any agency concerning our condition...that we're somehow just helpless victims who aren't partly responsible for anything that plagues the blk community.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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BigReg
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216. "So what is it then champ?"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

>-do blk ppl bare *some* responsiblity for willingly playing
>into the traps set by the larger society? Like glorifying
>seliing drugs when we know where the road will eventually lead
>to. To a lot of our youth "doing a prison bid" is a badge of
>honor.though..and garners more respect in some instances
>amongst their peers than getting a college degree..

We just collectively gave it up to the bang bang, shoot em up? Perhaps we are just genetically deficient and resort to crabs in a barrel behavior when put together like ofay wants to claim that we are.

You've got kids in Brownsville Brooklyn who look at Manhattan like it's a mythical place they've never been to when its less then ten miles away; the system is rigged.

I love how you make the logical leap of, 'It's mainstream hip-hop' but don't want to acknowledge the BIGGER things in place besides who controls what you see on the racks at Walmart (or the front page of itunes). You say 'willingly' as if suddenly the kid who's four generations DEEP in the projects with no parents who graduated high school (forget college) is supposed to become all by the bootstraps at the age of ten(because by the late teen years its probably too late) to perhaps enroll himself in a school two hours away by public transportation, cook his own lunches, forcibly re-engage teachers that have already written him or her off because they are black, etc.

They are traps for a reason, and while us talented tenth'ers can sit back on our macbooks and talk about how people in the hood just don't get it and should improve their itunes playlists, the problem is MUCH deeper then that. 70's was chock full of pro-black music and black folks were in dire situations.

And honestly, it's not as if its the g-unit gangster rap era anyway, sure you have your chief keefs and shmurdas but you also have your drakes(who ironically enough, many old heads see as soft), Kanye's, and even fuckers like Young Thug if you really listen is more on that 'party and bullshit' a la Whodini then MURDER MURDER KILL KILL, which, despite your 'WE HAD A BALANCE, LOLZ'* came in under OUR generations watch, lol. The music on the radio today is LESS murderous, but as frivolous(cause it's not like niggas like LL was gonna win humanitarian of the year), as what was popping when radio finally embraced hip-hop.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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67. "I think people completely missed the 10 year part..."
In response to Reply # 44


          




  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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"I'm sitting back reading the responses and I know they did"


  

          

>
>
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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97. "reply 31 and 61"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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121. "And I think you're completely wrong"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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202. "RE: reply no. 199 Michael Steele"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

.

  

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DVS
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49. "Without Racism and Classism, Hip Hop Doesn't exist"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That he feels this way doesn't surprise me at all.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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cgonz00cc
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127. "if we are talking about the elements im not sure i agree"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

DJing in the hip hop style in particular was a checkpoint on a road that already had a lot of travellers on it

The innovations of scratching and extending breaks seems more like a natural evolution of the craft, rather than a reaponse to social conditions

  

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DVS
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136. "If it wasn't for the decision to take music out of schools"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

those DJ's would have been receiving formal instrument training at that age.

The Turntablist is a direct effect of having no other viable outlet to express musicality.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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double 0
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141. "RE: If it wasn't for the decision to take music out of schools"
In response to Reply # 136


          

I had music IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS in NY in like '86 though.. playing the recorder and all that

My dad played 2 instruments when he came from Belize '74 and even he was a DJ. DJing is a direct result of club culture not lack of instruments in schools.

You know how much equipment costs?

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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cgonz00cc
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148. "thats where im coming from as well re: club culture"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

  

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double 0
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166. "RE: thats where im coming from as well re: club culture"
In response to Reply # 148


          

Yea especially when you look at cats like Flowers and those early-mid 70s guys..

They just simply wanted to DJ.. cuz well its fly shit.. lol

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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cgonz00cc
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142. "im not sure its a simple A -> B progression"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

>those DJ's would have been receiving formal instrument
>training at that age.
>The Turntablist is a direct effect of having no other viable
>outlet to express musicality.

Because there are a large number of DJs with access to both who choose one vs the other, or even abandon classical training in favor of DJing.

Additionally, DJing had been going on for decades before turntablism in night clubs among ppl who had no interest in formal musicianship. The guy who "invented" beatmatching was white and played in discos. Once beatmatching and slipcueing became widespread, scratching was just across a very short bridge.

Just so we're clear, im not talking about the *spirit* of hip hop, just the evolution of its techniques

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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209. "it's just part of a narrative people swallowed up"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

because "the hip hop elders" sold it to them

graf is def a response to social conditions of inner cities in NY, LA, and later SF, but it was also within the cultural circumference of metal and punk, and had a good number of middle class kids aiding in its aesthetic development

it was as much about youth culture, and drugs, and spaces of social racial integration, as it was about poverty and the post-civil rights years, as it was about aesthetic changes in relation to new technologies

  

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BigJazz
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59. "that's giving hip hop way too much credit. it ain't THAT influential"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

do y'all know people in the struggle? like really in the struggle? of the list of factors that contributed to their station in life, the music they listen to ain't high on the list if it's even on there at all...


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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SoWhat
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63. "well yeah but when they taught us about the BCRM"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

they tend to make us believe that music was important to those efforts.

i agree...the importance there is also overstated. and it could be why so many of us fall for the idea that HH must be having a negative impact on us now where Soul music and protest songs had such a positive impact on our parents' and grandparents' generations.

fuck you.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Wed Feb-18-15 11:56 AM

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76. "it's a part of the culture"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

no one is arguing that ppl hear a chief keef song then literally go outside and act out on those lyrics
it's cyclical
rappers glamorize street culture
and ppl without a pot to piss in live vicariously thru those lyrics

~~~~~~

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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129. "You couldn't have said it any more clearer."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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243. "White supremacist corps only pay a Black guy like Keef"
In response to Reply # 76


          

So if Black folks must have Keef's content to succeed, you're talking about a
self-fulfilling prophecy and propaganda campaign. This ain't about Hip Hop.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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SoWhat
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64. "rappers rap about shooting ppl."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

ppl who listen to rap shoot ppl.

thus, the idea to shoot ppl must come from rap.

rappers rap about selling drugs.

ppl who listen to rap sell drugs.

thus, the idea to sell drugs must come from rap.

^^ do it get it, folks? i wanna be sure i'm not missing the obvious impact HH has had on our ppl.

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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83. "RE: rappers rap about shooting ppl."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

Basketball player plays basketball
Youth sees basketball player playing basketball and begins playing basketball himself. Kids have been and will always be influenced by those in the public eye.

  

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SoWhat
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89. "okay so i do get y'all's point."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

i wanted to be sure it's as simple and short sighted as it seemed.

right on.

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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95. "RE: okay so i do get y'all's point."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

So now you're denying pop cultures influence on regular people? It is simple but it isn't short cited as it has been in effect since people started mass communications.

  

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SoWhat
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101. "yes, i am denying pop's influence on ppl."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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115. "RE: yes, i am denying pop's influence on ppl."
In response to Reply # 101
Wed Feb-18-15 12:24 PM by ChanEpic

  

          

Do you then fam. but it's most likely pop culture influenced YOU to come to this site. Just think about that. Why do you post here?

  

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SoWhat
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118. "i dunno."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Qfbrc1jdo

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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134. "RE: i dunno."
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

Well played but your notion that pop culture doesn't influence anyone is laughable, especially since you are posting on a site started by a pop/hiphop band and you're posting videos of people who are a part of pop culture. Basically, you're proving my point.


That shit is funny though, I'll give you that.

  

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SoWhat
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152. "yup. and i was DEAD SERIOUS when i said"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

that i don't believe pop has influence on ppl.

dead.
serious.

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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158. "RE: yup. and i was DEAD SERIOUS when i said"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

you're dead wrong too.

  

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SoWhat
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161. "too bad that i was SO SERIOUS about that point then."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

b/c now i have egg on my face!

damn.

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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170. "RE: too bad that i was SO SERIOUS about that point then."
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

>b/c now i have egg on my face!
>
>damn.

I see, so you're just in it for the LULZ. Alright then.

  

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SoWhat
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176. "you just now see that?"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

damn.

fuck you.

  

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ChanEpic
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190. "RE: you just now see that?"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

I never said I WAS super smart... I listened to hiphop my whole life... I gotta be graded on a curve.

  

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SoWhat
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193. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

nice one.

fuck you.

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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88. "RE: rappers rap about shooting ppl."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

don't forget about rappers who sag their trousers, which in turn causes the listener to sag their trousers and fuck up their life.

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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SoWhat
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91. "and they grow those nasty braids or whatever too."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Wed Feb-18-15 11:59 AM

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80. "In the Last 10 Years - AKA The Advent of the Ringtone Rapper"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

When an album didn't matter because we could be lucrative with Souljah Boy doing whatever hook (no hate to Souljah Boy) on your Nokia POS100. THIS is what the mainstream clung too, and has churned out Crank Dat, Chain Hang Low, 2 Step, etc. Meanwhile you also have had them attempt this with the advent of viral video (Trinidad James, Bobby Shmurda, etc) and THAT representation is not the entirety of Hip Hop.

Hip Hop as a whole has made plenty of advancements, including ones denouncing the unbalance of negativity in the music as well as racism as it IS still alive, they just be concealing it (c). The entirety of Hip Hop cannot be more destructive than the entirety of Racism.

Un.Possi.Bull.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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SP1200
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81. "RE: 'Hip-Hop Has Done More Damage To Black/Brown People Than Racism-"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Anything to keep the focus off white supremacy smh. And some of y'all
actually buy this crock of shit lol.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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ChanEpic
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90. "RE: 'Hip-Hop Has Done More Damage To Black/Brown People Than Racism-"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

Lamenting negativity in hiphop and also being aware of white supremacy are NOT mutually exclusive. That you think they are, is an example of the soft bigotry of low expectations.

  

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SP1200
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219. "Smdh "
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

who said they were? In the context of this "more damaging" statement,
it's a complete deflection 1st of all. Not even close to being the
most damaging. Talk abt negativity in hiphop all you want, but using
it as a deflection as to what the real problem is and I will call YOU
out.

Second Geraldo doesn't give a damn abt Black ppl or hiphop. So cosign
this bullshit if u want.

What race are you?

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:02 PM

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82. "The fact that this is even debatable is pretty damned ridiculous"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

To think rap had a MORE negative effect than things like Predatory lending, discrimination in housing/hiring and the Prison Industrial complex is preposterous

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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ChanEpic
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92. "RE: The fact that this is even debatable is pretty damned ridiculous"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

Yes Geraldo is an idiot, we all know that but since he brought it up, we should ridicule HIS idiocy AND the idiocy in hiphop.

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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106. "You can critique rap (and any other artform) all day"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

I have a problem with the idea that it CAUSES people who would otherwise be model citizens to actually commit bad actions.

Does art/entertainment industry make people do bad things, or does the art/entertainment Industry succeed because people already WANT to do things deemed dangerous/socially unacceptable so they look for an outlet that will allow them to experience these things from a safe distance?

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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ChanEpic
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114. "RE: You can critique rap (and any other artform) all day"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>I have a problem with the idea that it CAUSES people who
>would otherwise be model citizens to actually commit bad
>actions.
>
>Does art/entertainment industry make people do bad things, or
>does the art/entertainment Industry succeed because people
>already WANT to do things deemed dangerous/socially
>unacceptable so they look for an outlet that will allow them
>to experience these things from a safe distance?
>
>

A little from A and a little from B.

I have enjoyed ALL kinds of hiphop my whole life. I didn't turn out too bad but I know plenty of people who go out of their way to emulate what they see/hear in hiphop. It can go both ways but I do think LESS negativity is better than more, generally. So maybe that's my problem but....

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 12:06 PM

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93. "why do pundits assume only old white ppl understand irony and hyperbole?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when you were a kid, did you take all music litterally?
or did you understand that the shit is to be taken with a grain of salt?

steely dan has some downright reprehensible lyrics, if the songs
are taken literally.

but pundits hear eminem and assume kids will take the shit as a guide to live life.


black children are not that stupid.
they are not listening to the songs at face value.



well, maybe some exceptionally stupid children are.

but you can't do anything about the exceptionally stupid.
you could read the bible and justify killing folks for no reason if you want.


are only white ppl allowed to grasp irony?
Why?







>In The Last 10 Years'
>Says Geraldo Rivera
>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/17/geraldo-rivera-hip-hop-racism_n_6701628.html
>

  

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ChanEpic
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:08 PM

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96. "RE: why do pundits assume only old white ppl understand irony and hyperb..."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

that's a solid point.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:10 PM

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104. "they think we're that stupid. and some of US think so too."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

that's pretty sad.

fuck you.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 12:16 PM

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108. "the average poster on here doesn't understand those concepts"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

much less the avg. teen
much less the avg. black inner city teen scoring 1000 on the SATS
cmon

and yes rap fans tend to take lyrics seriously and literally sad to say
that's why street cred is so important in the genre
did you forget the controversy behind rick ross being a CO and not a former Zoe general?

~~~~~~

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:18 PM

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110. "Yea, but Ross still had a booming career AFTER that"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

Many years after that.

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:26 PM

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119. "And look what he's promoting in his music - look at what he has "rein"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...


>Many years after that.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:27 PM

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138. "steely dan is named after a gas powered dildo. "
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

they have songs about selling drugs,
doing drugs,
fucking children,

I could go on.



Why does nobody think that steely dan fans are
likely to take these songs as endorsements for how to live?


oh yeah.


white ppl be smart and shit.
they don't take records literally.

that's why ppl protest eminem but steely dan is cool.

there is not a single argument you can make
that wasn't also made about every generation of music before HH.








>vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the
>biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...
>
>
>>Many years after that.
>

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:46 PM

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146. "fans of Steely Dan don't have the same connection to their music as"
In response to Reply # 138
Wed Feb-18-15 01:47 PM by vee-lover

  

          

Fans of 'rap/angsta rap' do

Never has Steely Dan pretended to be living (or glorifying) the lifestyle they sung abt either

Also, they didn't just sing abt those things either

Unlike a lot of the music from artists since 2005 where the content has completely been dumbed down

Also, pop culture's influence on mainstream society wasn't as far reaching during Steely Dan's peak as pop culture/rap music is on today's youth/pop culture.

Due to the breakdown of social institutions in the last 20-25 yrs it has resulted in many blk youth to look for self-identity and role models outside of their immediate environment...which is why you can't compare your childhood or kids who listened to hard rock or heavy metal in the 70 and 80s to kids today who listen and live by HipHop. There's many social factors at play why HipHop artists have to be more socially responsible than other (non blk) artists.


>they have songs about selling drugs,
>doing drugs,
>fucking children,
>
>I could go on.
>
>
>
>Why does nobody think that steely dan fans are
>likely to take these songs as endorsements for how to live?
>
>
>oh yeah.
>
>
>white ppl be smart and shit.
>they don't take records literally.
>
>that's why ppl protest eminem but steely dan is cool.
>
>there is not a single argument you can make
>that wasn't also made about every generation of music before
>HH.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the
>>biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...
>>
>>
>>>Many years after that.
>>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:57 PM

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149. "you are calling black youth stupid. "
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

it's a fucking record.

I never thought I'd say this... but it is just music.

Marilyn Manson did not cause colombine.
nirvana does not cause suicide.
Rick Ross is not causing crime.


It's just music.

This argument is as dumb now as it was 10 & 20 & 30 & 40 & 50 & 60 years ago.


Nothing has changed.




>Fans of 'rap/angsta rap' do
>
>Never has Steely Dan pretended to be living (or glorifying)
>the lifestyle they sung abt either
>
>Also, they didn't just sing abt those things either
>
>Unlike a lot of the music from artists since 2005 where the
>content has completely been dumbed down
>
>Also, pop culture's influence on mainstream society wasn't as
>far reaching during Steely Dan's peak as pop culture/rap
>music is on today's youth/pop culture.
>
>Due to the breakdown of social institutions in the last 20-25
>yrs it has resulted in many blk youth to look for
>self-identity and role models outside of their immediate
>environment...which is why you can't compare your childhood or
>kids who listened to hard rock or heavy metal in the 70 and
>80s to kids today who listen and live by HipHop. There's many
>social factors at play why HipHop artists have to be more
>socially responsible than other (non blk) artists.
>
>
>>they have songs about selling drugs,
>>doing drugs,
>>fucking children,
>>
>>I could go on.
>>
>>
>>
>>Why does nobody think that steely dan fans are
>>likely to take these songs as endorsements for how to live?
>>
>>
>>oh yeah.
>>
>>
>>white ppl be smart and shit.
>>they don't take records literally.
>>
>>that's why ppl protest eminem but steely dan is cool.
>>
>>there is not a single argument you can make
>>that wasn't also made about every generation of music before
>>HH.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the
>>>biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Many years after that.
>>>
>>
>

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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155. "Many of them are lol...or I prefer to call a lot of misguided blk youth"
In response to Reply # 149
Wed Feb-18-15 02:35 PM by vee-lover

  

          

impressionable...and I've already pointed out why the breakdown of social institutions, for instance, has caused many blk youth to be more influenced by HipHop than kids from my generation were...it's no coincidence that probably 6 or 7 out 10 young blk teens aspire to be a rapper

And HipHop is not just a music genre, for the umpteenth time, it is a culture...and culture does directly influence people's behavior

HipHop influences the way kids dress/talk/relate to the environment around them...it is their social context...so you can't compare how it affects blk youth to rock or jazz or r&b or country or blues music's influence on youth during their day.




>it's a fucking record.
>
>I never thought I'd say this... but it is just music.
>
>Marilyn Manson did not cause colombine.
>nirvana does not cause suicide.
>Rick Ross is not causing crime.
>
>
>It's just music.
>
>This argument is as dumb now as it was 10 & 20 & 30 & 40 & 50
>& 60 years ago.
>
>
>Nothing has changed.
>
>
>
>
>>Fans of 'rap/angsta rap' do
>>
>>Never has Steely Dan pretended to be living (or glorifying)
>>the lifestyle they sung abt either
>>
>>Also, they didn't just sing abt those things either
>>
>>Unlike a lot of the music from artists since 2005 where the
>>content has completely been dumbed down
>>
>>Also, pop culture's influence on mainstream society wasn't
>as
>>far reaching during Steely Dan's peak as pop culture/rap
>>music is on today's youth/pop culture.
>>
>>Due to the breakdown of social institutions in the last
>20-25
>>yrs it has resulted in many blk youth to look for
>>self-identity and role models outside of their immediate
>>environment...which is why you can't compare your childhood
>or
>>kids who listened to hard rock or heavy metal in the 70 and
>>80s to kids today who listen and live by HipHop. There's
>many
>>social factors at play why HipHop artists have to be more
>>socially responsible than other (non blk) artists.
>>
>>
>>>they have songs about selling drugs,
>>>doing drugs,
>>>fucking children,
>>>
>>>I could go on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Why does nobody think that steely dan fans are
>>>likely to take these songs as endorsements for how to live?
>>>
>>>
>>>oh yeah.
>>>
>>>
>>>white ppl be smart and shit.
>>>they don't take records literally.
>>>
>>>that's why ppl protest eminem but steely dan is cool.
>>>
>>>there is not a single argument you can make
>>>that wasn't also made about every generation of music
>before
>>>HH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the
>>>>biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Many years after that.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:25 PM

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159. "the kids are alright. "
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

They always are.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:34 PM

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163. "the arguments rely on such awful stereotypes about our kids."
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

it's like...damn.

but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access to or influence on kids. b/c they scary.

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:41 PM

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167. "Or in my case, it comes from having hands-on experiences w/kids"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

and I can say firsthand that MANY of our youth are highly impressionable or stupid even

It is you all who sound like you don't have any real life experience to draw upon

So go on believing that ALL blk youth are just fine and that they don't take anything in rap music seriously. They will just figure everything out abt the world on their own.


>it's like...damn.
>
>but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access to
>or influence on kids. b/c they scary.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:48 PM

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173. "you sound like an adult kids tune out. "
In response to Reply # 167


  

          


if you came at me like this as a kid, i'd tune it out.
maybe this is why you feel the kids don't listen.

you don't listen to them.



>and I can say firsthand that MANY of our youth are highly
>impressionable or stupid even
>
>It is you all who sound like you don't have any real life
>experience to draw upon
>
>So go on believing that ALL blk youth are just fine and that
>they don't take anything in rap music seriously. They will
>just figure everything out abt the world on their own.
>
>
>>it's like...damn.
>>
>>but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access to
>>or influence on kids. b/c they scary.
>

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:23 PM

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201. "And you sound like someone who doesn't have any real life experiences"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

w/young teens

And guess what: oftentimes the adults we tune out as kids turn out to be the very ones we should've listened to...

But again, I can tell from the things you that you've never worked with or spent much time around teenagers, particularly blk male teenagers from the inner city...for you to say there's nothing wrong with our youth at all.

Blk male teens tend to be more influenced by HipHop than any other social institution you can name...and would be far more likely to listen to young jeezy give them advice, for instance, than Cornel West or Minister Farrakhan...


>if you came at me like this as a kid, i'd tune it out.
>maybe this is why you feel the kids don't listen.
>
>you don't listen to them.
>
>
>
>>and I can say firsthand that MANY of our youth are highly
>>impressionable or stupid even
>>
>>It is you all who sound like you don't have any real life
>>experience to draw upon
>>
>>So go on believing that ALL blk youth are just fine and that
>>they don't take anything in rap music seriously. They will
>>just figure everything out abt the world on their own.
>>
>>
>>>it's like...damn.
>>>
>>>but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access
>to
>>>or influence on kids. b/c they scary.
>>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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211. "they're most likely to listen to their parents."
In response to Reply # 201
Wed Feb-18-15 04:33 PM by SoWhat

  

          

and relatives.

and teachers.

and coaches.

and mentors.

and friends.

than, you know, rappers. or athletes.

but i agree - they'll listen to Jeezy before Minister Farrakhan.

side note: i've worked w/teens who had to make decisions in a court case. none of them sought the advice of their favorite rapper. but almost all of them sought their parent's advice. or their friends. or relatives. or babymama/daddy. and, of course, they listened to their lawyer. none listened to a rapper.

fuck you.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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220. "kids listen to parents, peers, and adults that don't sound clueless. "
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

And no, they don't listen to cornel west.
They listen to ppl in their lives.

And the adults I tuned out were and in many cases still are
on some bullshit.



>w/young teens
>
>And guess what: oftentimes the adults we tune out as kids turn
>out to be the very ones we should've listened to...
>
>But again, I can tell from the things you that you've never
>worked with or spent much time around teenagers, particularly
>blk male teenagers from the inner city...for you to say
>there's nothing wrong with our youth at all.
>
>Blk male teens tend to be more influenced by HipHop than any
>other social institution you can name...and would be far more
>likely to listen to young jeezy give them advice, for
>instance, than Cornel West or Minister Farrakhan...
>
>
>>if you came at me like this as a kid, i'd tune it out.
>>maybe this is why you feel the kids don't listen.
>>
>>you don't listen to them.
>>
>>
>>
>>>and I can say firsthand that MANY of our youth are highly
>>>impressionable or stupid even
>>>
>>>It is you all who sound like you don't have any real life
>>>experience to draw upon
>>>
>>>So go on believing that ALL blk youth are just fine and
>that
>>>they don't take anything in rap music seriously. They will
>>>just figure everything out abt the world on their own.
>>>
>>>
>>>>it's like...damn.
>>>>
>>>>but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access
>>to
>>>>or influence on kids. b/c they scary.
>>>
>>
>

  

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SoWhat
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174. "funny thing about that."
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

i have direct contact w/the youth we're talking about. every. day.

LOL

and i'm not so sheltered that i believe that the influence that causes you so much hand wringing is unique to HH or Black kids. it's not. it's been happening w/popular entertainment and kids since popular entertainment has been targeted at kids. it's not new. which is why i'm convinced the kids are alright. they're no worse than we were at their age. or our parents were at their age. or our grandparents. sure, they look act and dress differently. trends and fads have changed dramatically over the decades and generations. but the kids are fine. of course some of them will go too deep and take the entertainment too seriously. that is a small minority. the overwhelming majority put the entertainment in its proper context.

the kids i represent - they don't tell me they've committed theft or battery or whatever b/c they heard it rapped. they tell me they did it b/c they got mad over so-and-so talking shit about them or they were off their medz or they were broke or hungry or a host of reasons. but it's never been about what some rapper said. and i am convinced that they'd commit the offenses even if they never heard any rapper say anything. b/c our parents committed the same offenses back before any rapper ever rapped anything. our grandparents did too. so, it's not about the music IMO. or if the music plays a part it's a tiny part. and removing the music won't solve the problems these kids face or that these kids cause, generally. so attacking the music is wasted energy if the goal is to solve the big problems in these kids' lives.

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:56 PM

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178. "who the fuck said rap turns kids into gangster zombies? "
In response to Reply # 174


          

if a kid said "rap made me do it" I would smack the shit out of him

if you peel back layers tho you will see or hear some things that could be related to rap.

  

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SoWhat
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180. "sure."
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:51 PM

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175. "this is what makes it so hilarious..."
In response to Reply # 167


          

I bet neither of these 2 have ever taught a class or worked at an after school program with inner city kids.



  

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SoWhat
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177. "i've done both."
In response to Reply # 175
Wed Feb-18-15 03:08 PM by SoWhat

  

          

i worked at a day camp in the hood in Oakland, California. heard of it?

and i mentored and tutored kids after school and taught at a day camp in Chicago on the South Side. familiar w/that?

but now i work w/them one on one.

funny, ain't it?

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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179. "You are a lawyer? I had no idea. "
In response to Reply # 177


          

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:59 PM

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181. "and you'd be wrong in both cases. "
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

>I bet neither of these 2 have ever taught a class or worked
>at an after school program with inner city kids.
>



  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 03:00 PM

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183. "sure thing chief"
In response to Reply # 181


          

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 03:11 PM

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187. "I just make shit up. "
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

It hurts that you don't believe that
I am working with inner city kids in the hood.

Please believe me.

I need validation.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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185. "I was."
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

I am a community organizer now.
But tell me more about how it really is for the kids in these streets.

It ain't like I talk to them or anything.

  

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legsdiamond
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160. "truuuuue"
In response to Reply # 155


          

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:29 PM

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122. "he flipped the narrative into him doing shady stuff as a CO"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

basically transporting drugs into jail etc
i guess it happens, i don't believe him
a lot of fans probably do though

~~~~~~

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:35 PM

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125. "or maybe his fans just think he makes hot records. "
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>a lot of fans probably do though


Maybe that is why he's popular.
Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.

Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of it.
It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael jackson but hey...

This ain't my world anymore.

  

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legsdiamond
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137. "Officer Ricky has a great ear for beats..."
In response to Reply # 125


          

I wish he would pick the beats for a Nas album...

his content is azz but he makes enjoyable music IMO. I won't buy it but I won't stop myself from nodding when I hear his shit playing

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:33 PM

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140. "maybe that's why kids like it?"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

>I wish he would pick the beats for a Nas album...
>
>his content is azz but he makes enjoyable music IMO. I won't
>buy it but I won't stop myself from nodding when I hear his
>shit playing


You mean kids might not be coming to rick ross for guidance?
They might like his shitty records because it has a good beat?

That's deep.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:45 PM

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169. "deep like Atlantis..."
In response to Reply # 140


          

if kids were robots I would see your point but kids come in all shapes, sizes and some kids are easily swayed by talks of drugs, cars and money.

I used to work with kids in Philly...

some of these kids actually believe this shit fam... and in Philly a lot of these rappers were living the lives they rapped about. These kids are impressionable Joe, not all of them but much more than you think.

I know you want to give kids a ton of credit but every kid isn't as awesome as Joe Corn Moe

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:31 PM

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139. "but the fact that there are plenty of ppl I know and have heard say "
In response to Reply # 125
Wed Feb-18-15 01:48 PM by vee-lover

  

          

they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because he lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard than fans of other music

No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at UPS or as a security guard before his music career began...we certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music becaue of it


>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>a lot of fans probably do though
>
>
>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>
>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of it.
>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael jackson
>but hey...
>
>This ain't my world anymore.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:48 PM

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147. "okay. "
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

I still don't believe most ppl take music this litterally.
Apparently, I still have some faith in humanity.

Don't ask me why.




they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because he
>lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the
>music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to
>MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard
>than fans of other music
>
>No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at UPS
>or as a security guard before his music career began...we
>certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music becaue
>of it
>
>
>>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>>a lot of fans probably do though
>>
>>
>>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>>
>>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of it.
>>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael
>jackson
>>but hey...
>>
>>This ain't my world anymore.
>

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:09 PM

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153. "You really don't think ppl take HipHop that seriously? Do I need to"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

remind you of the East coast vs West coast beef that nearly caused an irreparable split in the music...and it wasn't just the respective crews (Death Row vs Bad Boy) who were at war w/one another but THE PPL/FANS of those 2 record labels/artists who were also personalizing that beef...



>I still don't believe most ppl take music this litterally.
>Apparently, I still have some faith in humanity.
>
>Don't ask me why.
>
>
>
>
>they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because he
>>lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the
>>music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to
>>MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard
>>than fans of other music
>>
>>No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at UPS
>>or as a security guard before his music career began...we
>>certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music becaue
>>of it
>>
>>
>>>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>>>a lot of fans probably do though
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>>>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>>>
>>>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of it.
>
>>>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael
>>jackson
>>>but hey...
>>>
>>>This ain't my world anymore.
>>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:17 PM

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154. "I remember 2 niggas got shot. "
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

I remember ppl arguing biggie vs pac
like ppl argued prince vs MJ.

I remember fans being sad at a tragic loss of two great artists.

What I don't remember, though, is anybody that was not about that life
starting up with that life
because pac rapped about it sometimes.


Seriously, it's just music.
And I halfway believe music is god.

But damn.



>remind you of the East coast vs West coast beef that nearly
>caused an irreparable split in the music...and it wasn't just
>the respective crews (Death Row vs Bad Boy) who were at war
>w/one another but THE PPL/FANS of those 2 record
>labels/artists who were also personalizing that beef...
>
>
>
>>I still don't believe most ppl take music this litterally.
>>Apparently, I still have some faith in humanity.
>>
>>Don't ask me why.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because he
>>>lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the
>>>music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to
>>>MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard
>>>than fans of other music
>>>
>>>No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at
>UPS
>>>or as a security guard before his music career began...we
>>>certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music
>becaue
>>>of it
>>>
>>>
>>>>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>>>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>>>>a lot of fans probably do though
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>>>>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>>>>
>>>>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of
>it.
>>
>>>>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael
>>>jackson
>>>>but hey...
>>>>
>>>>This ain't my world anymore.
>>>
>>
>

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:20 PM

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156. "So it was only abt Pac/Death Row vs Biggie/Bad Boy beefing, huh? Aight"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

>I remember ppl arguing biggie vs pac
>like ppl argued prince vs MJ.
>
>I remember fans being sad at a tragic loss of two great
>artists.
>
>What I don't remember, though, is anybody that was not about
>that life
>starting up with that life
>because pac rapped about it sometimes.
>
>
>Seriously, it's just music.
>And I halfway believe music is god.
>
>But damn.
>
>
>
>>remind you of the East coast vs West coast beef that nearly
>>caused an irreparable split in the music...and it wasn't
>just
>>the respective crews (Death Row vs Bad Boy) who were at war
>>w/one another but THE PPL/FANS of those 2 record
>>labels/artists who were also personalizing that beef...
>>
>>
>>
>>>I still don't believe most ppl take music this litterally.
>>>Apparently, I still have some faith in humanity.
>>>
>>>Don't ask me why.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because
>he
>>>>lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the
>>>>music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to
>>>>MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard
>>>>than fans of other music
>>>>
>>>>No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at
>>UPS
>>>>or as a security guard before his music career began...we
>>>>certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music
>>becaue
>>>>of it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>>>>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>>>>>a lot of fans probably do though
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>>>>>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of
>>it.
>>>
>>>>>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael
>>>>jackson
>>>>>but hey...
>>>>>
>>>>>This ain't my world anymore.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:59 PM

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182. "smh... they know they just don't want to admit it"
In response to Reply # 156


          

that shit was too real back when that East vs West was bubbling...

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 03:05 PM

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184. "were you in a gang back then?"
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

>that shit was too real back when that East vs West was
>bubbling...
>



I remember being in school at the time.
Kids did typical kid shit.

Fighting, cussing, getting in trouble, cutting class.
Sometimes wearing colors if they wanted to pretend they were in a gang.

I don't remember serious beef in high school busting out
over pac and biggie.

I remember kids being kids.
But maybe I wasn't real.

Maybe kid thugs were wilding elsewhere.

but maybe folks in the hood were shooting because pac and big died.
tell me about how that went down around your way.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 05:51 PM

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233. "yeah I was in a gang... "
In response to Reply # 184


          

everyone knows the only people who commit crime or violence are in gangs...



  

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SoWhat
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186. "i was in my early 20s then."
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

so i was right in the thick of the demographic that was allegedly jumping that shit off.

and i didn't know a single person who ever set tripped on some East/West shit. not a real person living real life.

i heard that rappers had beef and some of their crews had beef. but no one in my world back then (or the kids i tutored b/c i used to tutor after school back then) was involved in that East/West shit. except for buying CDs and tickets to shows, of course.

so it wasn't 'too real' in my world.

fuck you.

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
22276 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 04:17 PM

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197. "Come on, man. There was absolutely nothing "real" about that..."
In response to Reply # 182


  

          


...unless you were a part of Puffy or Tupac's entourage or something. No one else felt the slightest bit threatened about that whole thing.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:25 PM

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205. "you obviously didn't live the shit like he did. "
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

>
> ...unless you were a part of Puffy or Tupac's entourage or
>something. No one else felt the slightest bit threatened about
>that whole thing.
>


it was real in my hood.
ppl in my crew died over it.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:33 PM

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213. "So the threats aimed at those respective record labels were only"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

coming from the labels themselves???

There were no 'regular dudes' who made themselves a part of that beef?

Nevermind, we've seen documentaries that dicussed how that beef spilled over into the streets amongst the fans of those two artists/labels,

Just because YOU didn't see it or experience it withing your circles doesn't mean that there were real threats made by ppl that didn't have any affiliation with these artists other than just being a fan.


> ...unless you were a part of Puffy or Tupac's entourage or
>something. No one else felt the slightest bit threatened about
>that whole thing.
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:38 PM

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217. "*SMH* Man, this is by far one of the worst posts in OKP history n/m"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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222. "my GOD man."
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

LOL

fuck you.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:50 PM

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224. "this is embarrassing"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

.

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:25 PM

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204. "LMAO....yo said that ...i hope this site never ever changes"
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

ever

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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212. "can you imagine him talking to kids about this shit?"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

No wonder he thinks they are lost.


  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:24 PM

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116. "I didn't realize so many ppl were more cynical than me. "
In response to Reply # 108
Wed Feb-18-15 12:29 PM by Joe Corn Mo

  

          

>much less the avg. teen
>much less the avg. black inner city teen scoring 1000 on the
>SATS
>cmon
>

they might not know the words "hyperbole" and "irony",
but trust me, they know what the shit is.


>and yes rap fans tend to take lyrics seriously and literally
>sad to say
>that's why street cred is so important in the genre
>did you forget the controversy behind rick ross being a CO and
>not a former Zoe general?


Credibility is important in every genre, player.

Country artists grew up south of Bakersfield.
Soul artists grew up in the church.
Punk fans hate the police because sting was a poser.

etc...

none of this is unique to rap.


And again... as stupid as I think ppl are...
even I don't think eminem and lil wayne are viewed as life coaches
by ppl that listen to the music.

That would be like a white kid taking advice from ac/dc.



How dumb do you think black kids are?

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 12:31 PM

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124. "it's not about being dumb"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          


>How dumb do you think black kids are?

it's about being influenced by stuff that's popular in your community
rap shapes the narrative for all of that in many cases
there are white kids who changed their whole identity based off of the culture surrounding music genres (goth and grunge say hi)
smh

~~~~~~

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:46 PM

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130. "RE: it's not about being dumb"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

>
>>How dumb do you think black kids are?
>
>it's about being influenced by stuff that's popular in your
>community
>rap shapes the narrative for all of that in many cases
>there are white kids who changed their whole identity based
>off of the culture surrounding music genres (goth and grunge
>say hi)



Yet they didn't off themselves like kurt cobaine.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:46 PM

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131. "HipHop's reach far exceeds that of any other music genre..."
In response to Reply # 124
Wed Feb-18-15 01:10 PM by vee-lover

  

          

Never before have we ever expected the artists to actually live the life(style) they were rapping/singing abt except in HipHop....and in a HipHop, when ppl find out you are a fraud there's a social and commercial price to pay...or at least that's how it once was

Authenticity in HipHop is EVERYTHING and that translates to the listeners to...because this is what makes HipHop more than just a music genre but a cultural institution because it does directly influence behavior


>>How dumb do you think black kids are?
>
>it's about being influenced by stuff that's popular in your
>community
>rap shapes the narrative for all of that in many cases
>there are white kids who changed their whole identity based
>off of the culture surrounding music genres (goth and grunge
>say hi)
>smh

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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135. "yet dre, cube, rick ross, and dozens of other posers have vibrant career..."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

>Never before have we ever expected the artists to actually
>live their life(style) their rapping/singing abt...and in a
>HipHop, when ppl find out you are a fraud there's a social and
>commercial price to pay...or at least that's how it once was
>
>Authenticity in HipHop is EVERYTHING and that translates to
>the listeners to...because this is what makes HipHop more than
>just a music genre but a cultural institution because it does
>directly influence behavior
>


apparently, rap need not be a biography.
and kids can accept it.

Go figure.




>
>>>How dumb do you think black kids are?
>>
>>it's about being influenced by stuff that's popular in your
>>community
>>rap shapes the narrative for all of that in many cases
>>there are white kids who changed their whole identity based
>>off of the culture surrounding music genres (goth and grunge
>>say hi)
>>smh
>

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:37 PM

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164. "that same shit happened and happens in Rock."
In response to Reply # 131
Wed Feb-18-15 02:39 PM by SoWhat

  

          

and in Country. and even in Jazz.

the same. shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseur

fuck you.

  

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Von Pea
Member since Jul 07th 2002
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:22 PM

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112. "lol @ anyone agreeing with him while on this site"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


vonpea.com

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:38 PM

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143. "RE: lol @ anyone agreeing with him while on this site"
In response to Reply # 112


          

lol..

man..

why yo' musics makka de kids shoot da peopless

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Wed Feb-18-15 11:03 PM

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244. "Right?"
In response to Reply # 112


          

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:25 PM

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117. "people who write/think this goofy shit watch too much tv...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

way too much tv

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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ShinobiShaw
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Wed Feb-18-15 12:43 PM

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128. "Goddamn man, are you guys serious?? GERALDO FUCKING RIVERA"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*plays skee-lo record backwards*
*kills and eats my boss*

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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theprofessional
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:39 PM

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144. "right. like, how are people seriously entertaining this?"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

even if the messenger wasn't a well-established moron, the premise is so dumb it's not even worth discussing.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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theprofessional
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Wed Feb-18-15 01:43 PM

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145. "next on geraldo: video games about war have done more damage than war"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

call of duty is destroying the middle east peace process. just in the last ten years though. discuss.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Frobert
Member since Nov 03rd 2003
1547 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 02:37 PM

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165. "Just to remind everyone, black people are doing better than ever"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

For American black people in the past decade(s), violent crime is down and educational attainment is up. The trends are even better for young black people, presumably the people who would be most swayed by the content in hip-hop songs. Teen pregnancy and juvenile violence/arrests are down and continuing to fall. Less kids are dropping out of high school, and more are going to college and graduating. If hip-hop is damaging black people, the effect is so subtle that it doesn't actually show up in any statistics. That is to say, the effect is so subtle that there's no evidence that it even exists.

Also, the ten year cut-off is arbitrary. It's not like hip-hop has gotten appreciably more violent or ignorant in the past 10 years. If you really want to make the case that violent/ignorant has a negative affect on black people, you should be able to show that affect dating back to when violent/ignorant hip-hop became a major part of black culture, which I would say is at least 20-25 years ago. Interestingly, the inflection point for a lot of the negative trends for black people - particularly violent crime and juvenile delinquency - seems to come around 20-25 years ago. If we were as simple as a Fox News commentator, we might see that and conclude that hip-hop is responsible for this turnaround. But we're smarter than that, and know that these are complex problems with origins that run deeper than the lyrics of a simple rap song.

Some references:
http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05261
http://tinyurl.com/br5nlcs
http://www.childtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/01_Fig1.jpg
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2014/04/FT_14.04.23_collegeRace_enrollTrend-640-2.png
http://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/education/data/cps/historical/fig8.jpg

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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168. "This is actually correct. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I quit my job to sell Coco based on that song. And I stopped hanging around my broke childhood friends after 2 Chainz made I'm different.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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218. "LOFL. perfectly executed"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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172. "No."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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188. "No, and it's not even close"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I want to point out that African-Americans have the highest percentage of college graduates amongst all races in the United States of America. This refutes Geraldo's statement by itself.

We're disproportionately targeted police so of course numbers look higher than others. We're not going to gloss over the effect racism has on the overall well being of people of color in this country.

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
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189. "people who think conscious rap doesnt exist anymore fascinate me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

saying its not in the forefront anymore is one thing

but to say its not made anymore at all is an outright lie

the only part of the conversation that pisses me off
are the ones that complain about the lack of conscious HH
but given current examples, they wont support it

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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192. "Man there is SO MUCH GREAT MUSIC out there "
In response to Reply # 189


          

How you got the wherewithal to be on a message board but only listen to radio?

Maaaaaan....

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:05 PM

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194. "pretty sure no one in here is making that argument. "
In response to Reply # 192


          

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:15 PM

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196. "And also I keep noticing how the posters keep personalizing this issue"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

Yes, there's a lot of good music out there

And yes, most of the us on here who are in our 30s and 40s (and older), know where to seek out a HipHop/music alternative to what's played on mainstream radio

But

This ain't us on OKP - we're talking abt the average blk teenager between 14-18 living on the westside of Atlanta or in Bed Stuy or in the 9th Ward of NOLA or on the southside of Chicago who usually listen to what or whoever is hot in the streets which is usually an artists that has some mainstream appeal...

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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200. "yeah. some of us see that we are not so different from them."
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

we don't look down at them or their ability to distinguish reality from entertainment.

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
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203. "Or some of ya'll simply don't know what the hell you're talking abt"
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

>we don't look down at them or their ability to distinguish
>reality from entertainment.
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
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207. "like saying something doesnt exist when it does?"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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214. "I see you know all abt it"
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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208. "lol"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

http://www.dunhamandcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/HoldingUpTheMirror.jpg

fuck you.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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210. "dog, no."
In response to Reply # 196


          

The kid who is stuck listening to radio, only, got way more economic issues affecting their lives than *insert-your-least-favorite-new-rapper*.

The kids who aren't stuck listening to radio tend to have more options all the way around, beyond music choice, so the antics of Weezy F Baby means less to them than their Momma's performance review.

Look, you know what all of this focus on hiphop and youth in the past 20 years REALLY seems like?

A culture that's to afraid to challenge the social institutions that are killing us and would rather waste time chasing after interchangeable 20 year old pop acts

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:46 PM

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223. "RE: dog, no."
In response to Reply # 210
Wed Feb-18-15 04:52 PM by vee-lover

  

          

>The kid who is stuck listening to radio, only, got way more
>economic issues affecting their lives than
>*insert-your-least-favorite-new-rapper*.

But no one is saying that HipHop culture alone is solely responsible for all that's wrong with blk America...but to act as if a lot of the HipHop music specifically and the culture in general doesn't impact the lives of many of its *young* listeners in a negative way is being willfully naive at best and disingenuous at worse
>
>The kids who aren't stuck listening to radio tend to have more
>options all the way around, beyond music choice, so the antics
>of Weezy F Baby means less to them than their Momma's
>performance review.

First of all, kids today don't just listen to the radio anymore, they're more up on ways to access the music they want to hear than we (their parents) are...and I can tell you that most teens I tutored in an at-risk program wasn't listening to Lupe Fiasco...they seem to invariably prefer the more hardcore rap music that in some sways gives them some sort of validation...

>Look, you know what all of this focus on hiphop and youth in
>the past 20 years REALLY seems like?
>
>A culture that's to afraid to challenge the social
>institutions that are killing us and would rather waste time
>chasing after interchangeable 20 year old pop acts

And to show you how two ppl can look at the very same thing and come away w/two totally differnt observations...because I see this as blk ppl still unwilling to chellenge OURSELVES...because we as a community don't have any workable solutions to any of our problems, therefore it's easier to lay the blame at the larger society as if we don't bare any social responsibility..thus the reason why we can rally en mass when a policeman or some over zealous wanna be cop kills a teen but we as a community are for the most part silent when it comes to rallying ans organizing to stop the killings in Chicago

Becaus it's ALWAYS easier to blame someone else for problems that you're still responsible for solving no matter who's to blame

At what point do we start taking some accountability for the part we play in our own destruction

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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225. "this is flat out wrong."
In response to Reply # 223


  

          


>And to show you how two ppl can look at the very same thing
>and come away w/two totally differnt observations...because I
>see this as blk ppl still unwilling to chellenge
>OURSELVES...because we as a community don't have any workable
>solutions to any of our problems, therefore it's easier to lay
>the blame at the larger society as if we don't bare any social
>responsibility..thus the reason why we can rally en mass when
>a policeman or some over zealous wanna be cop kills a teen but
>we as a community are for the most part silent when it comes
>to rallying ans organizing to stop the killings in Chicago

i have attended rallies here in Chicago where ppl organized as a community to speak out against violence and killings in Chicago committed by Black teens.

so STFU w/this mess.

there are ppl on the ground right now working on that issue. the fact that you don't see those rallies covered on MSNBC or HuffPo doesn't mean they aren't happening.

speak on what you know.

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 05:20 PM

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227. "Ok, show me the national outrage of the killings - where's the t-shirts"
In response to Reply # 225
Wed Feb-18-15 05:34 PM by vee-lover

  

          

Where are the nation-wide bus trips taking ppl to Chicago to protest in the streets....


>i have attended rallies here in Chicago where ppl organized as
>a community to speak out against violence and killings in
>Chicago committed by Black teens.
>
>so STFU w/this mess.

No, fuckboy, you need to STFU because I'm not taking abt ppl organizing *locally* I'm talking abt rallies taking place throughout the country like in the case w/Trayvon and Mike Brown...and when Barack Obama says as heinous as those killings are, a blk teen is still more likely to be killed by someone who looks like him than he will by a cop...how many of us didn't want to hear that because it interfered w/our narrative of victim hood


>
>there are ppl on the ground right now working on that issue.
>the fact that you don't see those rallies covered on MSNBC or
>HuffPo doesn't mean they aren't happening.
>
>speak on what you know.

The blk community as a whole hasn't shown 1/3rd of the concern that it does when blk teens are murderd by policemen - and this is what I KNOW...I've been following what's going on in Chicago before it became a national news story and many ppl who live there say they feel that the local and federal authorities are not giving enough attention to this crisis...so you need to take whatever your misplaced gripe up with ppl who have are being affected directly w/what's going on...


>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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229. "?"
In response to Reply # 227
Wed Feb-18-15 05:33 PM by SoWhat

  

          

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 05:38 PM

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230. "Both those articles are taking abt local protest marches..."
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

>http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html
>
>http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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232. "yup."
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

are ppl getting on buses from New Orleans and Detroit and Los Angeles to rally in Chicago about Chicago's gun problem? not on a large scale. is that an indictment of the black community? does that mean that blacks don't care about black on black violence? no. does that mean blacks don't take responsibility to address violence w/in our community? no. the articles talked about steps taken by various black communities to address gun violence w/in those communities.

the rallying about Trayvon happened b/c the COMMUNITY ASKED PPL TO COME HELP THEM BRING ATTENTION TO THE CASE BECAUSE IT SEEMED THERE MIGHT NOT BE A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST ZIMMERMAN W/O THE ATTENTION.

the rallying around Mike Brown happened b/c the COMMUNITY ASKED PPL TO COME HELP THEM BRING ATTENTION TO THE CASE BECAUSE IT SEEMED THERE MIGHT NOT BE A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST WILSON W/O THE ATTENTION.

and w/this. i'm done talking to you about this, player. you don't get it, you won't get it from this conversation.

fuck you.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 07:31 PM

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237. "RE: yup."
In response to Reply # 232
Wed Feb-18-15 07:44 PM by vee-lover

  

          

>are ppl getting on buses from New Orleans and Detroit and Los
>Angeles to rally in Chicago about Chicago's gun problem? not
>on a large scale.

I've never heard anyone sponsoring a bus ride to Chicago to protest what's goung on with the gun violence...


> is that an indictment of the black
>community?

Yes


>does that mean that blacks don't care about black
>on black violence? no. does that mean blacks don't take
>responsibility to address violence w/in our community? no.
>the articles talked about steps taken by various black
>communities to address gun violence w/in those communities.

Taking steps for an age-old problem that has persisted for decades illustrates that for those of us who a aren't directly affected by the problem that the problem isn't as urgent as it for those in. Chicago ...we should be beyond "taking steps" by now. But that highlights what I've been saying in this post abt the overall blk community not having the same outrage when it's blk on blk violence vs non-blk on blk violence
>
>the rallying about Trayvon happened b/c the COMMUNITY ASKED
>PPL TO COME HELP THEM BRING ATTENTION TO THE CASE BECAUSE IT
>SEEMED THERE MIGHT NOT BE A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST ZIMMERMAN
>W/O THE ATTENTION.

No, they asked civil leaders and other community activists to bring attention to the case, they didn't put out a call for ALL blk ppl to rally for what was happening in Florida. The more the case became known the more blk ppl throughout the country got involved and created movements around the country, something I've yet to see in regards to the Chicago crisis....
>
>the rallying around Mike Brown happened b/c the COMMUNITY
>ASKED PPL TO COME HELP THEM BRING ATTENTION TO THE CASE
>BECAUSE IT SEEMED THERE MIGHT NOT BE A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST
>WILSON W/O THE ATTENTION.

That is not true...at all...ppl got involved because the murder of a Mike brown, unlike Trayvon Martin, immediately became a *nationally news story* from the start which is why ppl around the country got involved.


>and w/this. i'm done talking to you about this, player. you
>don't get it, you won't get it from this conversation.

Good - because for someone that is a lawyer you aren't the most reasonable person...and I won't "get" the nonsense you're spewing because you don't know WTH you're taking abt... Neither will I "get" how anyone can say w/a straightface that pop CULTURE doesn't have any influence over youth...if that's the case the we need to do away w/the word 'culture'

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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234. "fine- niggers ain't good for nothing. "
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

>>http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html
>>
>>http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/
>

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:35 PM

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215. "AGAIN, in the last 10 years"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

Blacks in America, as collective data point, have never been more educated, healthier, financially successful, or socially mobile

record level lows of teen pregnancy, gang affiliation and violence, and drop out rates. again LOWS!

and even with that, Blacks (men and woman) are still the most incarcerated (though nearly 70% are for NON VIOLENT CRIMES), more likely to get suspended than their white peers in school, and still socially stigmatized and criminalized in media narratives and popular cultural productions

and even those numbers / statistics represent only 5-25% of the "community"

also Blacks who are educated and fully employed HAVE LESS NET WORTH than their white counterparts WITH HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS

BUT RAP....

FUCK. OUTTA. HERE.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 05:29 PM

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228. "I guess all the data abt how blk ppl were disproportionately affected"
In response to Reply # 215
Wed Feb-18-15 05:39 PM by vee-lover

  

          

during the economic recession and are still trying to recover from it were all lies

We are keeping pace with other groups socially/educationally/economically...who knew

And I assume ALL blk teens are doing just fine, too


>Blacks in America, as collective data point, have never been
>more educated, healthier, financially successful, or socially
>mobile
>
>record level lows of teen pregnancy, gang affiliation and
>violence, and drop out rates. again LOWS!
>
>and even with that, Blacks (men and woman) are still the most
>incarcerated (though nearly 70% are for NON VIOLENT CRIMES),
>more likely to get suspended than their white peers in school,
>and still socially stigmatized and criminalized in media
>narratives and popular cultural productions
>
>and even those numbers / statistics represent only 5-25% of
>the "community"
>
>also Blacks who are educated and fully employed HAVE LESS NET
>WORTH than their white counterparts WITH HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS
>
>BUT RAP....
>
>FUCK. OUTTA. HERE.
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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238. "RE: come on bro. not. like. this."
In response to Reply # 228


  

          

you literally just made my point

collectively at this moment in America, Blacks are "better off" materially, than at any other point

BUT by every metric they are still near the bottom of, or most effected by systems such as the prison industrial complex, quality education, under and unemployment, high-wage earning, police brutality, social stigmas

Rap has little to do with anything

one, this position you been taking doesn't give the most marginalized of America's poor communities any sort of agency

two, denies the fact that mainstream rap is just as vapid, insipid, materialist, dumb, violent, and disposable as ever other American cultural production

and three, does nothing to account for the white and non-Black consumers of rap and how it effects them

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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240. "RE: come on bro. not. like. this."
In response to Reply # 238


  

          

>you literally just made my point
>
>collectively at this moment in America, Blacks are "better
>off" materially, than at any other point

Better than who???? Are we keeping pace w/the other racial groups in terms of education and wealth building?

>
>BUT by every metric they are still near the bottom of, or most
>effected by systems such as the prison industrial complex,
>quality education, under and unemployment, high-wage earning,
>police brutality, social stigmas

And how do WE as a ppl unknowingly or willingly participate in our own destruction. Many of our youth especially play right into the social traps set by society
>
>Rap has little to do with anything

You and others keep rap as if HipHop is exclusively abt the music - HipHop, unlike other *music* genres, is a CULTURE...and CULTURE has everything to do w/how we see ourselves and the world around us...and it does influence the behavior of many youths in all the wrong ways...
>
>one, this position you been taking doesn't give the most
>marginalized of America's poor communities any sort of agency

The position I'm taking??? I'm the one who says we have to start being accountable for the things we can control within our community and that in and of itself will alleviate a lot of the problems we're still faced with from without...

>two, denies the fact that mainstream rap is just as vapid,
>insipid, materialist, dumb, violent, and disposable as ever
>other American cultural production

And the music right now is in large part responsible for dumbing down today's youth moreso than any other social institution in America...
>
>and three, does nothing to account for the white and non-Black
>consumers of rap and how it effects them

Because I don't interact wthose groups on a regular basis therefore I can't say how it affects them...and at present, those groups are not my immediate concern...

I'm concerned Negroe's plight...

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:44 PM

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221. "Man, most of us were that "average black teenager""
In response to Reply # 196


  

          


>This ain't us on OKP - we're talking abt the average blk
>teenager between 14-18 living on the westside of Atlanta or in
>Bed Stuy or in the 9th Ward of NOLA or on the southside of
>Chicago who usually listen to what or whoever is hot in the
>streets which is usually an artists that has some mainstream
>appeal...


We know what effects hip-hop had on us and our peers back then. It's not much different than the effect it has on kids today.

They said this same bullshit back in the mid-80s. They said it again when "gangsta rap" got big in the 90s. They said it again when hip-hop videos were nothing but big asses, expensive cars & champagne. They're going to say it again about the next generation too.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:17 PM

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198. "reply #72"
In response to Reply # 194


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-18-15 05:54 PM

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235. "well that niggas wrong"
In response to Reply # 198


          

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
5998 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 04:25 PM

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206. "dumb fuck"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

  

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Phenomenality
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Wed Feb-18-15 03:53 PM

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191. "In the eyes of older white folks... he's probably right."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a huge percentage of his generation of folks actually think hip hop itself IS the embodiment of all things black.. and that all things black equals hip hop..

aka drugs, crime, misogyny, violence..

and yeah.. that misguided perception is pretty fucking damaging.

and ironically.. is a huge contributor TO racism.



(i didn't click the link, so that would be my un-read comment, lol)


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

  

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theprofessional
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Wed Feb-18-15 11:07 PM

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245. "racists gonna be racist"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

no one in history has ever needed hip-hop to justify their 'cism.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 05:06 PM

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226. "Not more than racism "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-18-15 05:07 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

but I doubt it's a good thing to have non whites of African descent enamored with music that promotes the killing of that same group.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79352 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 05:57 PM

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236. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 226


          

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
3696 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 05:48 PM

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231. "http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IPsXSb0jjkI/maxresdefault.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IPsXSb0jjkI/maxresdefault.jpg

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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jswerve386
Member since Jun 25th 2007
8979 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:06 PM

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241. "The Last 10 years?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I may even say the last 18 years, from the jiggy era to country coon ass southern rap thats still popular. Materialism and Senseless ass violence. 2 mainstays of hiphop now.


and i hate Geraldo but id have to agree with him.

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 10:53 PM

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242. "Why even entertain this bullshit."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-18-15 10:53 PM by Lardlad95

  

          

His argument is essentially that hip hop pushes people out of the "mainstream", and that rests on both the assumption that hip hop isn't mainstream and that the mainstream itself is not just a better alternative for black and brown people, but that the mainstream in and of itself is good.

I reject both of those notions.

Hip hop is mainstream (why aren't all those white kids seeing those ill effects when they listen to hip hop too) and further more the "mainstream" culture is the problem. Stop singling out hip hop as if it is the only weak link in American culture, because I can point to example after example of American culture that promotes what conservative Americans would call anti-social values, but because they aren't dominated by AF-Am's and Latino's we'll just brush that shit aside.

Fuck Geraldo, and fuck anyone who is buying this bullshit.

  

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Inkosi
Member since Nov 19th 2002
6858 posts
Thu Feb-19-15 12:39 AM

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246. "why do those people insist on giving a take on blk folks?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Do they ever do a show or segment on what's ailing poor, disadvantaged white folk? What's the take on that?


http://youtu.be/S2S0zu3M0rY

---------------------------------
Do it girl

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
20118 posts
Thu Feb-19-15 09:19 AM

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248. "Geraldo just trying to find his new life mission..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

his "hunt" for Osama lead nowhere and didn't bring him back to the limelight so now he's island hopping trying to find the next hot topic he can claim as his own. anybody taking this shit seriously needs to log off and take a nap.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49336 posts
Thu Feb-19-15 02:20 PM

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249. "Sooo, all discussion about personal responsibility need to be added to t..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

long post about Geraldo?

CY you on a roll today huh?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Thu Feb-19-15 02:34 PM

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250. "Yeah I see...smh"
In response to Reply # 249


  

          

>long post about Geraldo?
>
>CY you on a roll today huh?
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"One of the most important things in life is what Judge
>Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to
>whether you're r

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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