Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Thu Feb-12-15 11:16 AM
8. "mostly true. " In response to Reply # 0 Thu Feb-12-15 11:19 AM by Joe Corn Mo
you can think whatever the fuck you want, and the gov't has no right to interfere with your thoughts.
you also can say whatever the fuck you want, for the most part. the gov't has limited rights to restrict speech... if there is a very good reason.
bigots can express their bigoted views in private and public forums and the gov't usually won't stop them. nor should they.
what many bigots have a problem with, though... is that if they talk too much shit, previously docile minorites will talk shit back and maybe fuck with a bigot's money and subject the bigot to public shame, scorn, and ridicule.
I think that's awesome, personally.
But bigots tend to cry foul about some non-sense about "political correctness gone mad" when their wittle feelings get hurt by people exercising their own free speech rights to talk shit to bigots.
but bigots have every right to talk their shit. and they should CONTINUE to have that right.
although they would be well advised to keep certain shit to themselves if they don't wanna fuck up their money and their reputation.
Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Thu Feb-12-15 11:37 AM
18. "only certain bigoted actions. " In response to Reply # 15
I don't give a fuck about not being able to get married in some bigot's church.
I care about the govt not recognizing my marriage on state and federal level.
Case_one and his ilk can preach and do whatever they want in their bigoted, ungodly church.
It gets a little trickier when you talk about private businesses being able to be bigoted.
for instance, the gov't ended segregation by using the commerce clause from the constitution. they argued segregation was fucking up the gov't's money by segregating.
so there is a limit to how bigoted somebody can be in certain comtexts. and there should be.
if all the employers have the right to say "No niggers can shop or work here," that's a problem.
but in the overwhelming majority of cases, ppl can be as bigoted as they please. that's why I said "mostly true."
19. "if i were a bigot i'd think that was pretty non-threatening" In response to Reply # 15
i don't know. honestly just wondering about the endgame.
i don't want bigotry to exist at all. but it seems like there's no way to actually get rid of it. so we just have to find ways to live with it. imo us having to live with their bigotry favors them. █▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
30. "how do you get folk to see the error of there ways" In response to Reply # 26
i'm not with thought policing. nor criminalizing people's thoughts. but i think everyone has the potential to come to a position where they realize their previous actions / beliefs were misguided.
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
45. "bigotry when publicly expressed is a form of verbal abuse" In response to Reply # 32
without even getting into the actions.
in the court of law can't verbal abuse still be considered on the same plane with physical abuse? if that's a case then it would seem that the allowance for bigotry and a platform for it to make its views public is enabling abuse, and no person should have to endure abuse.
would you tell an abuse victim well there are always going to be abusers so get over it? ignore the abusers? you know how it is with abuse. sometimes getting out of the situation is the hardest part. perhaps societally we are enabling our abusers to create parallel conditions.
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
>without even getting into the actions. > >in the court of law can't verbal abuse still be considered on >the same plane with physical abuse?
no. first amendment protects bigoted speech. speech is criminalized when it's threatening but not when it's insulting.
i have successfully defended a client who was accused of calling a woman a 'dyke'. she did call that woman a dyke and that's not criminal. it's nasty, mean, rude, insulting, hateful...but not criminal.
"it is not that I, and others, do not view her as human, (although genetic science presently suggests that we are not equally homo sapiens sapiens), it is that we simply do not view her as being fully civilized for the obvious historical reason that she is not.
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
49. "forget criminal, it's wrong no?" In response to Reply # 48
by putting it out there it potentially perpetuates ideas which are categorically false. others who adopt these points of view may lead to bigoted actions which may be enforcable by law, but why not have the checks in place which make it clear that anyone adopting such views is wrong on a societal level?
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
53. "that statement you posted? no." In response to Reply # 49
it's mean but i wouldn't agree that it's 'wrong'.
>by putting it out there it potentially perpetuates ideas >which are categorically false. others who adopt these points >of view may lead to bigoted actions which may be enforcable by >law, but why not have the checks in place which make it clear >that anyone adopting such views is wrong on a societal level?
TheAlbionist Member since Jul 04th 2011 3306 posts
Thu Feb-12-15 12:01 PM
23. "Depends on the action, doesn't it?" In response to Reply # 16
You have freedom of speech, so you can run anywhere and say "Fuck all Christians", but you can't punch someone in the face or deny them a job for the same reason.
I think "Not so much" sums it up well enough.
>If I wanted to go to my job and said "fuck all Christians >because ____, >Nobody could or should stop me. > >But that would be ill advised, for obvious reasons. > >Someone bigoted against gays or blacks or women could do the >same. > > > >If a government official tried to pass a law outlawing >christianity, >that would be a problem. So there are limits. > >Not many, though.
21. "i've been reading a lot of bigoted shit of late" In response to Reply # 12
it's kind of amazing. i'm glad they put it out there because now i know, but it begs the question, what do we do about this. i don't want them in jail. i want them to realize the fault of their perspective.
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
25. "that doesn't make it stop though" In response to Reply # 22
i've been doing it more on the research front. and they happen to have invaded (well more like dominate) a culture i love. i won't let them push me out, or isolate myself and pretend they don't exist.
also i've got kids and would like to think there's a way to make things at least a little better for them in the future.
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
37. "It's the fucking internet..." In response to Reply # 21
Idiots and assholes (including bigots) have always existed and you sometimes came across them but it's not comparable with now when *everyone* no matter how dumb, how assholish, how bigoted etc. can throw their opinions right in your face in youtube comments, on facebook etc. in a way that barely was possible before when consuming media.
It's quite depressing but something we have to get used to I guess. For me as a white, heterosexual male in sweden whos thus rarely the target for all the asshole shit being said/written, it's still fairly easy but I digress...
Seriously, to see *so* much hate and general assholery and ignorance and just plain ol' stupidity presented to you on a daily basis is the worst thing about the internet to me; it's like the OG cyberspace (LOL!) dream of a "place" where everyone can make their voice heard and share their thoughts/opinions etc. in a manner not possible before backfired and you are instead just constantly reminded of how many fucktards there are everywhere...
41. "You've got the right to believe what you want" In response to Reply # 0
But you don't have the right to act on that belief if it encroaches on someone else's liberty
sadly, bigotry - like racism - will always be around. all humans have an underlying "us vs. them" mentality - to varying degrees - and a deep fear of what we don't understand.
in a famous study on chimpanzees (our closest ancestors), one chimp wandered off somewhere and caught a hugely debilitating disease. after contracting it his body started contorting weirdly and he walked in a menacing, herky-jerky manner. after returning to the group, he freaked out the other chimps so much that they set upon him and brutally killed him.
obviously we've moved beyond our chimp-like nature, but we'll always have that initial aversion to something we consider unusual - or "not like us."
i guess the best way to combat it is through education. though, like sowhat and joecorn said, just seek to minimise contact/interaction with them and throw disgust and scorn their way when you can.
If you're innocent, be cool. Only the guilty's catchin' offence.
43. "That's cool and all, but if humans were like chimps" In response to Reply # 41
There would be no America as the native folk would have just slaughtered them on first contact.
Sorry I refuse to believe bigotry is a part of the human condition. I believe it is cultured and ultimately that culture has convinced us that it's in our nature.
None of that however is good justification for just letting bigots be bigots.
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
51. "RE: That's cool and all, but if humans were like chimps" In response to Reply # 43 Fri Feb-13-15 12:40 PM by Tommy-B
>There would be no America as the native folk would have just >slaughtered them on first contact. >
>Sorry I refuse to believe bigotry is a part of the human >condition. I believe it is cultured and ultimately that >culture has convinced us that it's in our nature. > >None of that however is good justification for just letting >bigots be bigots. >
i get your point on bigotry not being innate in every human. bigotry does depend on how one is brought up and whether they were taught to respect other people's cultures and beliefs. that's why i said the best way to combat it is through education. the human mind can override our deeply embedded chimp-like characteristics if we work at it.
i was talking more about racism and the instinct to feel 'aversion' to someone or something we feel is different. this is what racism is rooted in: ignorance and/or fear of the unknown. obviously this can be overridden, but we all have an "us vs. them" mentality to some extent. some people just feed it a bit too much and look to degrade and destroy other people because of it
If you're innocent, be cool. Only the guilty's catchin' offence.
42. "of coruse you do, and should. " In response to Reply # 0
not even sure where a line could be drawn or who would get to chose what is and isn't considered bigotry.
a good portion of the fox bubble believe obama and eric holder are bigots against white people. there are some christians who think saying "happy holidays" instead of merry christmas is a form of discrimination, etc...
44. "Children aren't born bigots" In response to Reply # 0
Further proof that it's not just human nature. If you find a really young bigot it is because they've been raised in an environment where bigotry is the norm. And if nothing else this is the reason that we should be trying to eliminate bigotry because it sucks ass that kids would have to suffer through such shit. And quite often this is how you get to adult bigotry which is what makes the individual think their opinion is so firmly rooted.
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃ Big PEMFin H & z's "I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles
"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."
54. "absolutely...on your own time you can think/feel whatever" In response to Reply # 0 Fri Feb-13-15 12:54 PM by gumz
you can't bring that shit to the work place though and that includes government, police, regular corporate america or whatever. you have to check that shit at the door and be a professional regardless of what you think about "those" people. your rights won't protect you from being fired or kicked out of a private establishment. i think that's where people get it twisted.
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