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Lobby General Discussion topic #12724145

Subject: "No Big Bang: Quantum model suggests universe had no beginning" This topic is locked.
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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 06:37 PM

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"No Big Bang: Quantum model suggests universe had no beginning"


          

Well, this certainly is interesting. I recall creating a post suggesting that the big bang theory is built on faith, that it has no solid data/evidence to support it. I believe I was insulted and attacked by a number of enthusiastic individuals who claimed the math worked but could not themselves explain why.

Take a looksie here and update what you think you know.

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
NGE been saying this for years. #Clarence13X
Feb 10th 2015
1
This idea has been present for thousands of years
Feb 10th 2015
2
heres what you seem to be intentionally ignoring
Feb 10th 2015
3
I'll try to be as clear as possible
Feb 10th 2015
6
      LMAO there is not one branch of science i need your help with
Feb 10th 2015
13
           Haha
Feb 10th 2015
15
Saw ad hoc and stopped reading
Feb 10th 2015
4
Thank you, less nonsense for me to refute.
Feb 10th 2015
8
      refute? discuss maybe
Feb 10th 2015
9
           You're right.
Feb 10th 2015
10
                If your whole point is to refute why discuss?
Feb 10th 2015
11
                     I'm sorry.
Feb 10th 2015
12
you need more, less, or different drugs.
Feb 10th 2015
5
This is what I'll change first:
Feb 10th 2015
7
Are you really prepared to say this model is *it*
Feb 10th 2015
14

isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
30565 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 06:45 PM

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1. "NGE been saying this for years. #Clarence13X"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:11 PM

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2. "This idea has been present for thousands of years"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Noone can lay specific claim to it. It came from many corners of the planet.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:13 PM

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3. "heres what you seem to be intentionally ignoring"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If the Big Bang model was built on faith, this new model would have never existed

The attempt to make trust and faith the same thing is always hilarious to me

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:23 PM

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6. "I'll try to be as clear as possible"
In response to Reply # 3
Tue Feb-10-15 07:24 PM by initiationofplato

          

Although the Big Bang singularity arises directly and unavoidably from the mathematics of general relativity, some scientists see it as problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity.

"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there," Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told Phys.org.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html#jCp

I distinctly remember you said that the "math works", however, there is no evidence, or math, to prove the universe emerged out of a singularity. I maintained the big bang model was built on information *after* the building blocks were already provided and that was a correct statement. You said "what happened before is irrelevant, the math works."

That is faith.

Going by this article, perhaps you shouldn't be as sure of yourself in the future.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 08:01 PM

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13. "LMAO there is not one branch of science i need your help with"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Ive also never even insinuated that anything has been proven

But the fact that cosmic background radiation and universal expansion exist, totally obviates the concept of faith because that is evidence. Faith, by definition, requires a total absence of evidence.

Im also not sure why you keep using the concept of math. Im fairly certain you understand none of the math in either model. So why would you champion one over the other?

My idea on this new model, just like every other, is "we'll see". It will be tested, just like the Big Bang was tested.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 08:24 PM

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15. "Haha"
In response to Reply # 13


          

>Ive also never even insinuated that anything has been proven
>

"The math works."

>But the fact that cosmic background radiation and universal
>expansion exist, totally obviates the concept of faith because
>that is evidence. Faith, by definition, requires a total
>absence of evidence.
>

That is evidence of a quality of the universe, not the singularity. Without the singularity there is no big bang, there is no us. We can use cosmic background radiation in the model that suggests there was no big bang. You can pick and choose how you arrange, or connect the building blocks, the point is they come *after* they have been provided, ultimately proving nothing at all. That gap of information represents faith, because without that gap, there would be no big bang. The big bang is built on something which is completely absent of evidence. That is exactly the same as saying that life would not exist if god didn't create it.

"problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity."

"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there,"

Scientists have a really funny way of saying "We don't know."


>Im also not sure why you keep using the concept of math. Im
>fairly certain you understand none of the math in either
>model. So why would you champion one over the other?

I know how the math works. It explores relationships in the physical universe, relationships are inferred and theories are developed. Physicists seek to prove their theories with math. It is the observable and verifiable hypothesis.

"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there,"


>
>My idea on this new model, just like every other, is "we'll
>see". It will be tested, just like the Big Bang was tested.

Right.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
16482 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:16 PM

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4. "Saw ad hoc and stopped reading"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:27 PM

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8. "Thank you, less nonsense for me to refute."
In response to Reply # 4


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
16482 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:32 PM

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9. "refute? discuss maybe"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:35 PM

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10. "You're right."
In response to Reply # 9


          

If you're not interested why are you in here? Share your thoughts. I'd rather learn from you than hear your fabulous commentary on ad hoc.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
16482 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:41 PM

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11. "If your whole point is to refute why discuss?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

i love the topics you raise just hate discussing them with you

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:47 PM

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12. "I'm sorry."
In response to Reply # 11
Tue Feb-10-15 07:49 PM by initiationofplato

          

My comment was out of line and premature. I thought you were just going to attack me. That was my mistake.

I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:18 PM

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5. "you need more, less, or different drugs. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

change something.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 07:24 PM

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7. "This is what I'll change first:"
In response to Reply # 5


          

1. Ignoring you and your special type of condescension and negativity.

Chat never!

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 08:19 PM

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14. "Are you really prepared to say this model is *it*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

or just happy for something that counters the big bang?

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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