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Subject: "Teaching men not to rape" Previous topic | Next topic
-DJ R-Tistic-
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Tue Feb-10-15 12:54 PM

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"Teaching men not to rape"


  

          

In the last few years, there have been a million debates and articles about rape, and how we need to move away from teaching women how to act in order to not be raped, versus teaching men not to rape.

My former coworker's daughter is at Spelman, and he sent me this link from their website: "Sexual Assault: Tips to Prevent Acquaintance Rape (Date Rape)" http://www5.spelman.edu/students/sexualassault/acquaintancerape.shtml - and I've heard of plenty articles similar to this. Many women have responded saying that men are never taught not to rape, and that this whole attitude leads to the "she asked for it" attitude that's out there.

In your opinion, what ways should this be done, and which ways do you think are most effective in the long run? Would it even require a complete cultural overhaul, since a lot of what is seen as harmless may have rape-type undertones? Do you think the laws should be much harsher for those who are convicted?

Do you even think that men who are rapists could have been controlled at some point, or that something they experienced in life lead to their behavior? I've only read a few stories from actual rapists, such as that one Reddit post, and I still couldn't point out what could have prevented them from going that far.

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
gotta teach boys early; before puberty. n/m
Feb 10th 2015
1
I think I would teach my sons to stay away from anything remotely a
Feb 10th 2015
2
that's where i'm at
Feb 10th 2015
4
Got you. The no trains part is interesting
Feb 10th 2015
7
      Fuzz Yeah!!!
Feb 10th 2015
10
the whole idea that you'd need to teach a man NOT to rape...WTF!?!?!?
Feb 10th 2015
3
Unfortunately id argue there's still a nod and a wink out there
Feb 10th 2015
6
Exactly.
Feb 10th 2015
59
so many boys are taught that they have to try by any means necessary
Feb 10th 2015
8
yup
Feb 10th 2015
12
Wow... word? I mean I'm with Promo
Feb 10th 2015
18
and we as women ARE saying it's necessary
Feb 10th 2015
22
there are a lot of boys/men who take cues from assholes where
Feb 10th 2015
24
so then why are you dismissing my "teach them right" vs. "don't rape"
Feb 10th 2015
28
      so you agree that teaching them right means teaching them not to rape?
Feb 10th 2015
30
      well that's what i'm wondering - if we're arguing on the same side?
Feb 10th 2015
38
      n/m - double post
Feb 10th 2015
39
      'teach them right' = vague
Feb 10th 2015
33
RE: Wow... word? I mean I'm with Promo
Feb 10th 2015
31
but here's where i feel the disconnect.
Feb 10th 2015
21
      as long as we have people who feel this way
Feb 10th 2015
25
           so you've basically condemned boys to be date rapists (at best).
Feb 10th 2015
27
           you're just making shit up to be angry.
Feb 10th 2015
32
           Are you saying that if parents don't explicitly teach their sons
Feb 10th 2015
29
                your dad taught you not to rape.
Feb 10th 2015
55
                I think a lot of men that had an active father had this talk
Feb 11th 2015
76
                i think it will bring the numbers down.
Feb 10th 2015
61
Its not always that simple
Feb 10th 2015
16
With that...it just sucks that peer pressure > what adults teach
Feb 10th 2015
23
um please lets not reduce it to some animalistic tendency
Feb 10th 2015
26
RE: um please lets not reduce it to some animalistic tendency
Feb 10th 2015
44
not all that you typed, but that part
Feb 10th 2015
58
      RE: not all that you typed, but that part
Feb 10th 2015
64
           because when we talk about the instinct
Feb 10th 2015
66
                RE: because when we talk about the instinct
Feb 11th 2015
96
                     i dunno
Feb 11th 2015
106
                          nah that's YOUR extrapolation on my premise
Feb 11th 2015
112
yes
Feb 10th 2015
45
      Thats exactly what I said though
Feb 10th 2015
53
           consider it a misstep
Feb 10th 2015
72
ur usually on point but this is all some bull
Feb 11th 2015
82
      nah, not all aggessive behavior is learned
Feb 11th 2015
88
      RE: ur usually on point but this is all some bull
Feb 11th 2015
95
           and are there any social repercussions for this?
Feb 11th 2015
107
                ^^^yes, im not saying elders are gathering up young males
Feb 11th 2015
111
                     ok so i looked into the scientific evidence
Feb 11th 2015
132
in the 80's raping a girl was seen as a comedic trope
Feb 11th 2015
140
treat women with respect in general, just like you'd want people to
Feb 10th 2015
5
I agree with that as a baseline
Feb 10th 2015
9
definitely.
Feb 10th 2015
14
You can't treat people you want to have sex with like your sister.
Feb 10th 2015
11
agreed...thats' why i didn't say that.
Feb 10th 2015
13
Fair enough. So how do you want people to make a sexual move on your
Feb 10th 2015
15
      Respectfully and honestly.
Feb 10th 2015
46
lmao this is also true
Feb 10th 2015
17
the intent is great there
Feb 10th 2015
19
      what?
Feb 10th 2015
35
           "you wouldn't like it if it was your sister"
Feb 10th 2015
41
           I said treat women with respect in general...isn't that the same thing y...
Feb 10th 2015
52
                according to your response in #48, it isn't
Feb 10th 2015
62
                     oh god. lol
Feb 10th 2015
65
                          the fact that you're insisting on throwing in that second option
Feb 11th 2015
92
                               rilly doe
Feb 11th 2015
94
                               RE: the fact that you're insisting on throwing in that second option
Feb 11th 2015
98
           treat a woman w/respect b/c she's a person who deserves respect
Feb 10th 2015
42
                feels nitpicky...especially since i said treat women with respect in gen...
Feb 10th 2015
48
                     i bet it feels that way to you.
Feb 10th 2015
50
Honest question for the guys...to what level do you check your homeboys?
Feb 10th 2015
20
perfect scenario
Feb 10th 2015
49
i'd tell him that's pretty gross.
Feb 10th 2015
57
relevant:
Feb 10th 2015
68
i try to
Feb 10th 2015
69
I don't have friends like that.
Feb 10th 2015
70
yeah...i'm kinda with you on this...
Feb 10th 2015
71
This is where am at......actually have been for a while
Feb 11th 2015
80
I'm glad I grew up when I did...
Feb 11th 2015
77
Absolutely no problem w/ this.
Feb 11th 2015
86
*updates database*
Feb 11th 2015
87
      Right?!?!
Feb 11th 2015
91
      Hol up...
Feb 11th 2015
97
           and i was dead serious about it too, pal.
Feb 11th 2015
99
                **updates database**
Feb 11th 2015
100
                *finger guns*
Feb 11th 2015
103
                ay yo, lmao
Feb 11th 2015
137
"drunken consent" is about as controversial my group gets
Feb 11th 2015
110
There's a culture of celebrated and encouraged aggressiveness...
Feb 10th 2015
34
I like this phrasing waaay better.
Feb 10th 2015
37
^^^what i was getting at up higher in this post re: what to value^^^
Feb 10th 2015
40
yes,
Feb 10th 2015
43
Well said
Feb 10th 2015
51
damn, you really want it to be on some innate shit
Feb 11th 2015
74
Lol. I hope I'm in good company
Feb 11th 2015
75
eyy what comedian makes that joke that 99% of all sex
Feb 11th 2015
141
actually, you probably should still say it
Feb 11th 2015
78
Probably. I just don't believe that the actual "rape conversation" is w...
Feb 11th 2015
89
this
Feb 11th 2015
83
It's keeping the phrase "boys will be boys" out of your vocab
Feb 11th 2015
114
1) It's necessary 2) It will prevent rapes 3) It won't stop rape from oc...
Feb 10th 2015
36
I get where you're going but...
Feb 10th 2015
56
      Agree on all points
Feb 10th 2015
60
We live in a country where schools can't talk about sex.
Feb 10th 2015
47
give this reply a round of applause.
Feb 10th 2015
54
it'd be great if schools could talk about the subject.
Feb 10th 2015
63
You're starting to KINDA see this in colleges now
Feb 11th 2015
108
so y'all really think teaching your son not to rape looks like
Feb 10th 2015
67
right
Feb 11th 2015
130
.
Feb 11th 2015
73
Call me old school but why should we have to teach men not to rape?
Feb 11th 2015
79
So basically:
Feb 11th 2015
81
a) those are basically rules for women to follow
Feb 11th 2015
84
^ women shouldn't have to limit themselves like that.
Feb 11th 2015
93
Cultural overhaul is needed
Feb 11th 2015
85
Considering that US rapes have declined by 80% since 1970
Feb 11th 2015
101
      Have rapes declined or has the reporting of them declined?
Feb 11th 2015
104
           All crime has declined dramatically - it's not a reporting issue.
Feb 11th 2015
109
                *taps you gently on the shoulder*
Feb 11th 2015
115
                     Severe underreporting can exist alongside an overall decline.
Feb 11th 2015
116
                     but how can you accurately measure a decline
Feb 11th 2015
118
                          So rape is the only type of crime that's not in decline?
Feb 11th 2015
119
                               those articles aren't endorsing any conspiracy theories tho
Feb 11th 2015
121
                                    right. using those stats to say that we should just keep doing
Feb 11th 2015
122
                                    The conspiracy theory is that police departments all over are purposely
Feb 11th 2015
126
                                         then according to that same conspiracy theory you're quoting
Feb 11th 2015
128
                                              The article claims there's a conspiracy - I'm saying the opposite.
Feb 11th 2015
129
                                                   *lesigh*
Feb 11th 2015
131
                                                        Fudging on reporting probably cancels itself out at the national
Feb 11th 2015
133
                                                             I now have a headache
Feb 11th 2015
135
                                                                  68% of the total, but the total seems to be decreasing.
Feb 11th 2015
136
                     damn. that issue needs to be solved.
Feb 11th 2015
117
                          it does, doesn't it?
Feb 11th 2015
123
                               yup.
Feb 11th 2015
124
who is taught to rape?
Feb 11th 2015
90
should be the same as 'teach someone not to steal'
Feb 11th 2015
102
Not quite
Feb 11th 2015
105
Four in 10 teenage girls coerced into sex acts
Feb 11th 2015
113
:'( :'( :'(
Feb 11th 2015
120
      yep we've talked about the grey area
Feb 11th 2015
134
Just Had Convo W/ Friend About This
Feb 11th 2015
125
i like all of that.
Feb 11th 2015
127
fail to see any downsides to this
Feb 11th 2015
138
a coworker pulled aside one of my students today for this reason
Feb 11th 2015
139
we had this thing in Dallas
Feb 11th 2015
142

TRENDone
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:02 PM

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1. "gotta teach boys early; before puberty. n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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2. "I think I would teach my sons to stay away from anything remotely a"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

grey area.

No First time with a girl who has been clearly drinking.

No Trains.

Not only no means no, but no affirmative consent also means no.


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ambient1
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:09 PM

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4. "that's where i'm at"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:14 PM

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7. "Got you. The no trains part is interesting"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Do you think trains are just too big of a risk, even if the woman consents with it all?

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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10. "Fuzz Yeah!!!"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

At every level of school I have been in (High School, College & even Grad School!) there have been dudes I have known who were accused of doing something untowards with women in the realm of sexual assault/rape and they all involved multiple guys and one girl.

In all of the cases it was reported but ultimately charges were dropped. In at least two of the cases the woman explicitly recanted.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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PROMO
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3. "the whole idea that you'd need to teach a man NOT to rape...WTF!?!?!?"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-10-15 01:10 PM by PROMO

  

          

that shit is just foreign as fuck. is this REALLY a 'thing'?

like, just don't rape. have respect for your fellow human beings.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

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BigReg
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6. "Unfortunately id argue there's still a nod and a wink out there"
In response to Reply # 3
Tue Feb-10-15 01:15 PM by BigReg

  

          

Like Pepe Le Peu was mad sex offender as a mug. Not gonna be like society beats the idea you need to be hiding in dark hallways with a knife, but there's some questionable shit out there in the world, along with some good old boys club type behavior that pops up in middleschool, that can be problematic.

>that shit is just foreign as fuck. is this REALLY a 'thing'?
>
>like, just don't rape. have respect for your fellow human
>beings.

  

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dafriquan
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59. "Exactly. "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>Like Pepe Le Peu was mad sex offender as a mug. Not gonna be
>like society beats the idea you need to be hiding in dark
>hallways with a knife, but there's some questionable shit out
>there in the world, along with some good old boys club type
>behavior that pops up in middleschool, that can be
>problematic.
>

I don't think I have yet to read an honest exploration of the male psyche with regards to rape that matches up with my own observations as a man and from discussions with other men.

  

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SHAstayhighalways
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8. "so many boys are taught that they have to try by any means necessary"
In response to Reply # 3
Tue Feb-10-15 01:25 PM by SHAstayhighalways

  

          

to get the draws. yes you do have to teach not to rape.
a lot of boys and men don't realize all the different scenarios that even count as rape.
a lot of boys and men think if it didn't happen in an alley way at gun point its not rape
or if the girl is drunk or dressed a certain way or shows up at your house at a certain time
then one has the right to take advantage. yes we have to teach boys not to rape.
if only it were as simple as JUST DON'T RAPE we wouldn't be constantly teaching girls
how to avoid rape.

www.royallegacy.org

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Ashy Achilles
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12. "yup"
In response to Reply # 8


          

  

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ThaAnthology
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18. "Wow... word? I mean I'm with Promo"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I was never instructed on the nuances of rape and yet I have not raped, ever. I mean I hate to sound so callous but it is not rocket science. If she says no its no.

Sure there was a culture of "get the drawls" when I was younger but in the 90s we were concerned with STDs real big and school did its job to remind us about sex and consentual sex.

But if it is necessary then it is necesary

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BabySoulRebel
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22. "and we as women ARE saying it's necessary"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>But if it is necessary then it is necesary

because what you consider "common sense" has gone over many a man's head. I'd love to agree with you but my life experience and experiences of women I know say otherwise.

here for dis.

  

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SHAstayhighalways
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:35 PM

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24. "there are a lot of boys/men who take cues from assholes where"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

there isn't anyone to tell them better.
my parents never had a discussion with me about sex and i didn't lose my virginity until i was 20
that doesn't mean that parents discussing and educating their children about sex early on
doesn't help in curbing certain behavior like irresponsible sex or having sex really young, teen pregnancy etc.

we can't always use ourselves as a litmus in these situations
some people have to be taught what's right before somebody teaches them wrong

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
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PROMO
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28. "so then why are you dismissing my "teach them right" vs. "don't rape""
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

stance?

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TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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SHAstayhighalways
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:44 PM

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30. "so you agree that teaching them right means teaching them not to rape?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

or what situations actually constitute as rape and what they should avoid?
or nah?

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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PROMO
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38. "well that's what i'm wondering - if we're arguing on the same side?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

i'm saying if you raise your kids right you don't have to say to them "hey son, don't rape girls." the upbringing you give them should make that very clear to them.

i realize there's always gonna be exception to that theory - some boys/men WILL rape - but they could rape even with being explicitly taught not to.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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PROMO
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39. "n/m - double post"
In response to Reply # 30
Tue Feb-10-15 02:08 PM by PROMO

  

          

.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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blackrussian
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:49 PM

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33. "'teach them right' = vague"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

'don't rape' with clear parameters as to what that means = specific

and clearly many men out here need specific instructions.

  

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Jay Doz
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31. "RE: Wow... word? I mean I'm with Promo"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>I was never instructed on the nuances of rape and yet I have
>not raped, ever. I mean I hate to sound so callous but it is
>not rocket science. If she says no its no.

isn't the whole idea and phrasing of "no means no" itself part of explicit education campaign geared towards reducing sexual violence?

-------
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PROMO
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21. "but here's where i feel the disconnect."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

i don't feel like you need to teach your boy to NOT rape.

you just need to raise them right and teach them what to value.

no one explicitly taught me that and i haven't raped anyone.

it feels like a lot of people are saying you need to be much more direct and explicit with your parenting in this arena. i don't think i need to tell my son "don't rape girls" because if i raise them correctly the thought would never cross their mind - they'd be disgusted at the thought of inflicting that on another person.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

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SHAstayhighalways
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:37 PM

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25. "as long as we have people who feel this way"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

date rape will continue to be the most common form of rape out there.
*shrug*

not really much to say after that.

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
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PROMO
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27. "so you've basically condemned boys to be date rapists (at best)."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

awesome.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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SHAstayhighalways
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32. "you're just making shit up to be angry."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

i haven't condemned anyone to anything
rapists are out there and i am of the belief that a lot of dudes who have raped aren't necessarily serial rapists or lurking in the corners of building hallways waiting to rape people.
i am saying that a lot of dudes assert behavior they don't realize is bad because they
weren't taught better.
but go ahead and find some fault and that and argue with yourself because i won't be arguing with you.

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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29. "Are you saying that if parents don't explicitly teach their sons"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

not to rape, that it'll continue? And that teaching them explicitly can possibly limit the amount of date rapes?

I get what he is saying, that teaching them overall core values should limit the chances of them ever becoming a rapist...whether serial, or a one time date rapist. Although I'm not at all against being direct and telling them blatantly what rape is, and how not to get caught up in any way on that side.

My dad never uttered the exact words, "don't rape women" or anything close...but always told me to be extremely careful in sexual situations. Always said to make sure to never sleep with a girl who was off of liquor/drugs, to never assume she wants to do anything, even if "no" is never said, and plenty more things. He even said to stay far away from any advances with women at work.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Feb-10-15 02:17 PM

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55. "your dad taught you not to rape."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

we're not advocating for parents to use the phrase 'do not rape'.

geez. LOL

it's pretty much what your dad taught you. and hopefully not a one-time talk but a continuing education/awareness thing.

fuck you.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Wed Feb-11-15 12:49 AM

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76. "I think a lot of men that had an active father had this talk"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

My pops gave me a talk about getting into compromising situations, but it was never a "don't rape" talk, just common sense stuff. I'll have the same talk with my son when the time comes.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
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Tue Feb-10-15 02:30 PM

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61. "i think it will bring the numbers down."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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dafriquan
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16. "Its not always that simple"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


>like, just don't rape. have respect for your fellow human
>beings.
The male species (i'm including animals) have rapey tendencies. Reason is what separates us from animals. In moments where reason is clouded, we default to some hardwired instincts. We all understand that people snap and get violent but the propensity for violence varies from person to person. I think rape is the same meaning different situations will trigger the latent rapist while some men will never rape in any situatiom. Aside from the alleyway creepy rapist, some regular dudes are rapey and need to identified as such. Get an R branded on them or something.

The first step is reporting all rapes and near-rapes so that rapists and would be rapists can be identified, rehabilitated and monitored. If you have frank discussions with young men you will be surprised to find that there is little concensus as to what constitues as rape .

As far as teaching boys not to rape, it might help to socialize them not to view a blue balled non-score as the end of the world. Take your L and go masturbate your sexual frustration away. Also maybe legalising and destigmatising paid sex could help as well.


  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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23. "With that...it just sucks that peer pressure > what adults teach"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Just like with liquor, fighting, hell anything else...it sucks bad that a boy's peer group tends to have much stronger influence than what their parents or mentors may teach them...even when they clearly know what's right and wrong.

I think it's extremely important for dads to teach their sons that having multiple partners doesn't make you a man...and even that sex shouldn't be about conquering and having high numbers. I feel like a lot of boys are more into having sex solely to brag about it, versus actually wanting to do it.

>As far as teaching boys not to rape, it might help to
>socialize them not to view a blue balled non-score as the end
>of the world. Take your L and go masturbate your sexual
>frustration away. Also maybe legalising and destigmatising
>paid sex could help as well.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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blackrussian
Member since Oct 17th 2010
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:39 PM

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26. "um please lets not reduce it to some animalistic tendency"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

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dafriquan
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44. "RE: um please lets not reduce it to some animalistic tendency"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

>
Why do you view all that I typed as a reduction?
Are you afraid it would amount to excusing it?
I don't think citing a Freudian defense ever exempted anybody from doing jail time.

Questions for you.



  

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blackrussian
Member since Oct 17th 2010
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58. "not all that you typed, but that part"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

it's not even about the legal aspect of it but the general discourse around the topic. because i've worked with young people and was very disturbed by things that they had to say about 'natural' and 'animal' instincts, so i think even the way we frame it is important.

>>
>Why do you view all that I typed as a reduction?
>Are you afraid it would amount to excusing it?
>I don't think citing a Freudian defense ever exempted anybody
>from doing jail time.
>
>Questions for you.
>
>
>
>

  

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dafriquan
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64. "RE: not all that you typed, but that part"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

>it's not even about the legal aspect of it but the general
>discourse around the topic. because i've worked with young
>people and was very disturbed by things that they had to say
>about 'natural' and 'animal' instincts, so i think even the
>way we frame it is important.
Okay. I saw it as an expansion not a reduction.
In a vaccum, aggressive machoness or 'animal instinct' does not explain rape
But as one of the possible factors, I think it is worth considering.
And it's not that far removed from accepted rape verbiage like "Rape is not about sex, it is about control and power"



>>>
>>Why do you view all that I typed as a reduction?
>>Are you afraid it would amount to excusing it?
>>I don't think citing a Freudian defense ever exempted
>anybody
>>from doing jail time.
>>
>>Questions for you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

  

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blackrussian
Member since Oct 17th 2010
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Tue Feb-10-15 03:07 PM

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66. "because when we talk about the instinct"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

we move away from talking about the action that follows the instinct, and the culture/society that legitimises that action. it's a slippery slope to a cop-out imo.

i think it's a world away from talking about control/power because that implies thought/consideration/calculation and not just reaction. if we term rape as instinctual behaviour, it's not far from saying there is a possible circumstance in which it is acceptable or understandable, imo.

>>it's not even about the legal aspect of it but the general
>>discourse around the topic. because i've worked with young
>>people and was very disturbed by things that they had to say
>>about 'natural' and 'animal' instincts, so i think even the
>>way we frame it is important.
>Okay. I saw it as an expansion not a reduction.
>In a vaccum, aggressive machoness or 'animal instinct' does
>not explain rape
>But as one of the possible factors, I think it is worth
>considering.
>And it's not that far removed from accepted rape verbiage like
>"Rape is not about sex, it is about control and power"
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>Why do you view all that I typed as a reduction?
>>>Are you afraid it would amount to excusing it?
>>>I don't think citing a Freudian defense ever exempted
>>anybody
>>>from doing jail time.
>>>
>>>Questions for you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

  

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dafriquan
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96. "RE: because when we talk about the instinct"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

I'd like to remove the word instinct from this conversation.
On reflection, I don't like how it sounds and I agree that it can leave a loop hole for a cop out. I believe the original word I had used was tendency to explain that some guys are more prone to rape than others.

Rape is also form of violence.
Can we agree on this much?



>we move away from talking about the action that follows the
>instinct, and the culture/society that legitimises that
>action. it's a slippery slope to a cop-out imo.
>
>i think it's a world away from talking about control/power
>because that implies thought/consideration/calculation and not
>just reaction. if we term rape as instinctual behaviour, it's
>not far from saying there is a possible circumstance in which
>it is acceptable or understandable, imo.
>

  

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blackrussian
Member since Oct 17th 2010
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106. "i dunno"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

i think you want me to say that some people are naturally more likely to be rapists & there's nothing that we can do about it. even if that were the case, i think it would be along the line of how many murderers are sociopaths i.e. a fraction. if that's something we can't do anything about, then how about focusing on the things that ARE changeable i.e. the objectification and male ownership of women's bodies, and i certainly i hope i don't have to describe to you in detail the myriad ways in which that is manifested.

  

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dafriquan
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112. "nah that's YOUR extrapolation on my premise"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>i think you want me to say that some people are naturally
>more likely to be rapists & there's nothing that we can do
>about it.
"nothing" is not what i had in mind when i clearly said:
"The first step is reporting all rapes and near-rapes so that rapists and would be rapists can be identified, rehabilitated and monitored" as far as i know we already do this for paedophiles.

>how about focusing on the things that ARE changeable i.e. the
>objectification and male ownership of women's bodies
sure. we can do a 1001 things.
i have not in any instance advocated for narrowing down the ways in which rape prevention is tackled. anyway you think i'm wrong (or at least the specific part of what i said that you zoomed in on). i think my perspective has merit (whether or not it fits with popular discourse) but i better bow out before i get added to any more "databases".

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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45. "yes"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

it seems to revert to this distancing thing

they cant see to get it in their heads
this is your brother, your cousin, your best friend, your father, your grandfather


its not always the creepy dude
most times its someone you know well
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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dafriquan
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53. "Thats exactly what I said though"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          


>this is your brother, your cousin, your best friend, your
>father, your grandfather
>
>
>its not always the creepy dude
>most times its someone you know well


>~~~~
>When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so
>that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
>~~~~
>You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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72. "consider it a misstep "
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

mostly right

that little thing
folks will take and run with it

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41102 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 07:46 AM

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82. "ur usually on point but this is all some bull"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

there are no inherent/genetic "rapey" tendencies, aggressive behavior is learned

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 09:15 AM

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88. "nah, not all aggessive behavior is learned"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

some is, some isn't

sexual aggression or power aggression is one of those things that can be either or...

the ways we do it tend to be learned but the tendency is often there

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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dafriquan
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95. "RE: ur usually on point but this is all some bull"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

You really think it's all learned?
Who does the teaching?

I have no scientific proof (though I should research) but if we are willing to see rape as a type of violence, why can't we ascribe the same traits to it?

Most agree that some people have a higher propensity for alcoholism, aggression, abuse etc tell me how you think rape differs?
Lets say in a close group of guy friends who grew up together in similar environments there is one whose sexual aggression has always been questionable. The type to grab a girl's ass and laugh or strong arm a chick in the club. Everybody else has no problem walking the fine line except for him? Are you saying there is no chance his tendency is partially innate?

Btw as I have made clear before, I am in no way excusing him just saying he might be built like that and the basic lessons we give young boys will not suffice for him.

  

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blackrussian
Member since Oct 17th 2010
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Wed Feb-11-15 11:05 AM

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107. "and are there any social repercussions for this?"
In response to Reply # 95
Wed Feb-11-15 11:25 AM by blackrussian

  

          

>Most agree that some people have a higher propensity for
>alcoholism, aggression, abuse etc tell me how you think rape
>differs?
>Lets say in a close group of guy friends who grew up together
>in similar environments there is one whose sexual aggression
>has always been questionable. The type to grab a girl's ass
>and laugh or strong arm a chick in the club. Everybody else
>has no problem walking the fine line except for him? Are you
>saying there is no chance his tendency is partially innate?

the same social repercussions as if he was violent in public? no. so then, society reinforces that that behaviour, while 'linestepping,' is not really harmful. and so he learns that it's ok to continue. shit, does it really need that much explaining?

even your example that some people are more prone to alcoholism or violence or aggression, is usually as result of exposure to a certain type of negative environment in which such behaviour is normalised. well, when it comes to sexually innappropriate behavior towards women, that negative environment is the whole of society.

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Wed Feb-11-15 11:21 AM

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111. "^^^yes, im not saying elders are gathering up young males"
In response to Reply # 107
Wed Feb-11-15 11:29 AM by blkprinceMD05

  

          

and saying this is how you rape guys or even saying "just take it" (ALTHO some men do tell young guys that or say shit like 'most women want it if u get them to that point' or 'most women will say no when they really want to say yes') but what im saying is that in most societies its encouraged for males to be "go getters" and be assertative and take and go for what we want

im big on cultural relativism but this is something u see pretty much the world over, and i wouldnt even be mad at someone saying that those traits have been passed down from when most men were hunters. but that mentality is still passed down, taught, learned, socially enforced/encouraged. this coupled with societal notions that women are "weaker" and that men are the "natural" leaders is what nurtures a mentality that doesnt find rape so universally abhorrent that it might not ever happen

Its not something that men are just born with....

even amongst animals, there are mating rituals and signals, where the female signals she is ready to procreate/mate, there is nothing in nature innate about rape....

and rape as we kno it is a human construct anyway

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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dafriquan
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132. "ok so i looked into the scientific evidence"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

there are peer reviewed studies such as this one that espouses the view that rape might be genetic:
A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion (Cambridge, MIT)

however there are also studies and responses debunking the sociobiological impetus of rape.
some of the resistance has come from the implications of accepting the conclusion etc not necessarily an outright refutation of it.
just saying it's not so black and white.

i happen to think it can be nature, nurture or both,
a comprehensive prevention policy would address all.

that's all i got.

>Its not something that men are just born with....
>
>even amongst animals, there are mating rituals and signals,
>where the female signals she is ready to procreate/mate, there
>is nothing in nature innate about rape....
>
>and rape as we kno it is a human construct anyway

  

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Wed Feb-11-15 08:52 PM

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140. "in the 80's raping a girl was seen as a comedic trope"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

so ya i think its very important to teach your son HOW to respect your fellow human beings, especially female instead of just saying not to and assuming a young man has any idea what that entails.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:12 PM

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5. "treat women with respect in general, just like you'd want people to"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-10-15 01:12 PM by Cenario

  

          

treat your sister.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:17 PM

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9. "I agree with that as a baseline"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

but I think like Buddy said above you should be more specific as they get older.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Cenario
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14. "definitely."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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11. "You can't treat people you want to have sex with like your sister. "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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Cenario
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13. "agreed...thats' why i didn't say that."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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15. "Fair enough. So how do you want people to make a sexual move on your"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

sister?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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Cenario
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46. "Respectfully and honestly. "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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illEskoBar221
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17. "lmao this is also true "
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

_____________________________

<----- Genesis is deep my features are that of a God


http://illeskobar.deviantart.com/
http://thisiskyleskorner.blogspot.com/

  

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BabySoulRebel
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:30 PM

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19. "the intent is great there"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

however you're still correlating the need to respect women with their relationships to men
how about we need to respect women because they are our fellow human beings period?
I like that better.

here for dis.

  

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Cenario
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35. "what? "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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41. ""you wouldn't like it if it was your sister""
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

you're doling out respect according to the relationship the woman in question has with a man which still puts women on a lower rung below men versus respecting a woman simply because she is another human being just like you and therefore worthy of respect in her own right.

here for dis.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Tue Feb-10-15 02:14 PM

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52. "I said treat women with respect in general...isn't that the same thing y..."
In response to Reply # 41
Tue Feb-10-15 02:14 PM by Cenario

  

          

you said?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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62. "according to your response in #48, it isn't"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

because if you can't see her as a human being worthy of respect period first then you have to envision her as your sister in order for that woman to get that same respect.
Following that logic, she wasn't worthy of respect until you introduced the concept of her personhood being associated with a man and that is definitely NOT the same thing I was talking about.

here for dis.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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65. "oh god. lol"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

treat women with respect in general. If that is a hard concept for him to grasp for whatever reason, think about how you'd want people to treat your sister and do similarly in any given situation as opposed to just falling back on whatever you 'think' is right, or am inclined to do. The goal in the end being that he'll be taught, and learn what respect for women really is and won't need to think in terms of his sister in the long run. jeez.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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92. "the fact that you're insisting on throwing in that second option"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>treat women with respect in general. If that is a hard
>concept for him to grasp for whatever reason, think about how
>you'd want people to treat your sister and do similarly in any
>given situation as opposed to just falling back on whatever
>you 'think' is right, or am inclined to do. The goal in the
>end being that he'll be taught, and learn what respect for
>women really is and won't need to think in terms of his sister
>in the long run. jeez.

plays into my point
the fact that a person could not grasp why a woman is deserving of respect simply because she is a human being just like him off top is a MOTHERFUCKING PROBLEM and it's central to this entire discussion. And even allowing that second option really doesn't mean shit because some men will know a woman is someone's sister, daughter, cousin, auntie, etc. and STILL violate her so all those dismissive assumptions you're making mean squat when at the core of their mindstate as it pertains to women is the idea that women are somehow less worthy of personhood than men.
We gotta get back to square one before we can unpack any of this bullshit.

here for dis.

  

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SoWhat
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94. "rilly doe"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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98. "RE: the fact that you're insisting on throwing in that second option"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

>the fact that a person could not grasp why a woman is deserving of respect simply because she is a human being just like him off top is a MOTHERFUCKING PROBLEM and it's central to this entire discussion.

I don't disagree with that at all. that is a problem that can't be fixed/taught overnight. Treating another individual the same way you'd want people to treat someone you care about can be understood overnight. While working on the major problem, do the 2nd one.

>And even allowing that second option really doesn't mean shit because some men will know a woman is someone's sister, daughter, cousin, auntie, etc. and STILL violate her so all those dismissive assumptions you're making mean squat when at the core of their mindstate as it pertains to women is the idea that women are somehow less worthy of personhood than men.

I didn't say treat them like they are someone's sister, i said treat them how you'd want your sister treated. If they can't grasp that, find a way that they can grasp.

>We gotta get back to square one before we can unpack any of this bullshit.

I said square 1 first, so again we don't disagree smh

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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SoWhat
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42. "treat a woman w/respect b/c she's a person who deserves respect"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

w/o having to imagine she's your sister. or your mother. et al.

fuck you.

  

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Cenario
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48. "feels nitpicky...especially since i said treat women with respect in gen..."
In response to Reply # 42
Tue Feb-10-15 02:11 PM by Cenario

  

          

in general

if someone can't follow that, then think in terms of your sister/mother

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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SoWhat
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50. "i bet it feels that way to you."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

fuck you.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Tue Feb-10-15 01:30 PM

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20. "Honest question for the guys...to what level do you check your homeboys?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I know we've all had homeboys to say and do some completely out of pocket shit. Even if none of our friends have done anything close to rape, we all know that we've heard them say some shocking shit. And I know we've said and done some wild shit as well, whether they checked us for it or not.

Like for example....one of my close friends ALWAYS sends girls dick pics. I normally didn't care, but it started getting too close to me. He sent one to a homegirl who I had known for years, and who I talked to often. And recently, he sent one to a girl who I'm not at all close with, but she comes to a lot of my events. It's to the point that literally every time she sees me, she's like "I hope you didn't bring _____ with you!"

His whole logic is that when he feels a girl is bullshittin, or either when he knows he only wants to hit...he sends the pic out. If they delete him, block him, ignore him, cuss him out, he's cool with that...because he feels that there's enough women who will respond to this in a good way, and it's worked enough for him to keep doing it.

I have told him...do what you want, you're a grown man, but that shit gonna get you in trouble eventually...and hell, it did get him in trouble, but I doubt he'll stop doing it.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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49. "perfect scenario"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

*waits for responses*


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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SoWhat
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57. "i'd tell him that's pretty gross."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

i haven't had to check a homie on some shit like that but i would.

fuck you.

  

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Government Name
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68. "relevant:"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

http://youtu.be/6A4Spxwvajo?t=1m35s

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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dafriquan
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69. "i try to"
In response to Reply # 20
Tue Feb-10-15 03:46 PM by dafriquan

  

          

i (physically) dissuaded a "homie" from having sex with a chick that was so drunk she could barely stand. he holds it against me till this day* in his words... roughly paraphrasing here
"so what if she's wasted? do you think she'd fuck me if she was sober?"
he genuinely believes that the only way to score women out of his league is through coercion or trickery of some sort. the sad thing is this girl at the time was a "friend" of ours.

i mean what do you say to that?

it is embedded in the the way the genders interact. just not in such clear extremes.


  

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daryloneal
Member since Jan 08th 2005
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70. "I don't have friends like that."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

That's one thing I've never completely understood - having homeboys that don't have similar morals as you.

I will give my honest opinion to my friends on other stuff (relationships, arguments etc)..

Like "Nah, I think you were in the wrong on that one"

But having friends that just all out sexually harass or assault women? Nah. I don't keep people like that around me.

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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Seven
Member since Dec 11th 2004
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71. "yeah...i'm kinda with you on this..."
In response to Reply # 70


          

...the guys in my inner circle aren't like that...

I had a childhood friend tho..who after we hit 30..i realised how misogynistic he is..and always was..it's like a light bulb went off....
I started checking him on shit he'd say...things he'd tell me he did to his wife.....
He just wouldn't change...i no longer consider him a friend...i cut him off...

Other mutual friends and family who know how far we're coming from (known each other since we were 8) ask why I cut him off like that...we have so much history etc...

I was like naw...there's no way I can confide in him or take advice from him..or just feel comfortable around him anymore....history or not....

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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80. "This is where am at......actually have been for a while"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

I've always been upfront about shyt I don't tolerate & quick to distance myself from those cats that I find to be singing a different tune. I don't care if they are my sibling, cousin, childhood friend...etc but if I ain't down w/ their agenda then I'm not giving them a second of my life.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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77. "I'm glad I grew up when I did..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

we didn't have this text bullshit to deal with when I was young... But if it had been around, I know exactly which dude would be the one doing it.

Back inna day it was his mouth that got him (and on occasion all of us) in some shit. We stayed checkin him until we just started distancing ourselves from him.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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Wed Feb-11-15 08:36 AM

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86. "Absolutely no problem w/ this."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

He ain't rapin nobody...last I checked raped by phone isn't part of the Fifty Shades of Rape.

Like you said he's gotten a lot positive results from this so it's unlikely to stop.


Women are perverts just like men. I don't buy this unsolicited dick pic trend as terrible because again people are perverse and enjoy it...and when it isn't enjoyable just block the mofo.

But to answer the question, I'm not checking a grown person from sending nudes to another grown person.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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87. "*updates database*"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

fuck you.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Feb-11-15 09:34 AM

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91. "Right?!?!"
In response to Reply # 87


          

Ugh.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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97. "Hol up..."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

Didn't you just say saying something in another post abt wanting to fuck Gronkowski (and some other dude) but you needed him to be drunk and you needed to convince him it was his idea.

Yeah I read that and paused cuz that sounded real rapey.

Put your name in that database too homie

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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99. "and i was dead serious about it too, pal."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

totally.

fuck you.

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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100. "**updates database**"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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SoWhat
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103. "*finger guns*"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

http://media.giphy.com/media/iGHbjYrUftITS/giphy.gif

fuck you.

  

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ShinobiShaw
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137. "ay yo, lmao"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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Cocobrotha2
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110. ""drunken consent" is about as controversial my group gets"
In response to Reply # 20
Wed Feb-11-15 11:32 AM by Cocobrotha2

          

You know... she got drunk as hell on her own accord and she's inviting you up for the night... what do you do?

I think my group is like 60/40... Pass on it / All in!

I do know one guy that's admitted to pumping a newly-divorced friend of his with liqour to get her to lower her inhibitions. "These girls play hard to get but once they get drunk, they get loose as hell".

A couple months later, she had a mental breakdown and blames him for it but he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

I think it's fair to "encourage a good time" but I've seen the dude get pushy with women in the bar. That's some immmature shit, at best... rapey, at worst.... so I keep him at arms length.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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daryloneal
Member since Jan 08th 2005
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34. "There's a culture of celebrated and encouraged aggressiveness..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as it pertains to men.

So it has little to do with "teaching boys not to rape"

It's about better defining what behavior, qualities, and other attributes constitute manhood.

Better defining what the source of confidence should be.

If that is done effectively, telling a boy "not to rape a girl" is redundant.

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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37. "I like this phrasing waaay better. "
In response to Reply # 34


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

  

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PROMO
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40. "^^^what i was getting at up higher in this post re: what to value^^^"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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SoWhat
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43. "yes,"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

fuck you.

  

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dafriquan
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Tue Feb-10-15 02:13 PM

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51. "Well said"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

>as it pertains to men.
>
>So it has little to do with "teaching boys not to rape"
>
>It's about better defining what behavior, qualities, and other
>attributes constitute manhood.
>

I would go beyond culture and say that some of that macho-agressiveness is hard wired. Not to say it will always result in rape. Far from it. But machoness if not properly channeled can manifest itself in sexually aggressive behaviour. Like roided up douche bag types being notorious for strong arming chicks. College football players and "trains" etc.

  

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bonitaapplebaum71481
Member since Aug 04th 2003
22576 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 12:20 AM

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74. "damn, you really want it to be on some innate shit"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

*pulls up database*


"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on fire" -Bin

www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
http://bedstuybetty.tumblr.com/
DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

  

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dafriquan
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75. "Lol. I hope I'm in good company"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

>*pulls up database*


>
>"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on
>fire" -Bin
>
>www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
>http://bedstuybetty.tumblr.com/
>DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

  

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
20414 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 08:58 PM

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141. "eyy what comedian makes that joke that 99% of all sex"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

in the animal kingdom is non consenual??

shit kills me

  

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Rjcc
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78. "actually, you probably should still say it"
In response to Reply # 34


          

cuz while that "aggressiveness" covers some situations, that's not always the issue.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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daryloneal
Member since Jan 08th 2005
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Wed Feb-11-15 09:21 AM

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89. "Probably. I just don't believe that the actual "rape conversation" is w..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

most of the focus should be. It's addressing the symptom but not the root.

But that said, there's nothing wrong with having those conversations to reinforce the correction of the root.

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41102 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 07:48 AM

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83. "this"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Wed Feb-11-15 11:40 AM

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114. "It's keeping the phrase "boys will be boys" out of your vocab"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Because you're essentially saying at that point that it's an inherent characteristic of boys to be unruly, so there's no point even trying to instill standards of decency or proper behavior in them. And that helps absolutely no one.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Chanson
Member since Nov 09th 2004
15000 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 01:56 PM

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36. "1) It's necessary 2) It will prevent rapes 3) It won't stop rape from oc..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We are taught not to murder. Some people still do.

Teaching men not to rape, especially date rape, is a good thing though.

mind
--------
matter

  

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Novembersgift
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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56. "I get where you're going but..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

the murder analogy is perhaps applicable in "dark alley" stranger rape and not as useful in the more common acquaintance/date rape scenario or a scenario in which consent was initially given then later revoked (either before or during the act).

"Teaching men not to rape" is the easy, editorial way to say what is essentially that we need a shift in the way we raise boys and on the flipside, how we raise girls, because they're related and not in a vacuum.

We raise boys to manipulate women and see the whole business of sex as a game to win. We ask them to perform masculinity in ways that don't necessarily make room for men to see women as whole persons or even to express themselves in ways that may work outside of masculine norms. Then it becomes funny or a win to take a drunk girl home and have sex. It's funny or reputation-boosting to put a video of you and your friends running a train on a girl. It's only right to expect something in return for being nice to a woman.

So a lot more work is required than simply teaching boys not to rape. I'm sure if you ask some people who have stepped all over someone else's consent whether they raped them or intended to rape, they'd say no.

It's a much bigger lift to ask SOCIETY to change its view of men, women, men's roles, women's roles, masculinity, femininity, etc., but that's what it would take, IMO.

  

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Chanson
Member since Nov 09th 2004
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60. "Agree on all points"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

mind
--------
matter

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Feb-10-15 02:11 PM

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47. "We live in a country where schools can't talk about sex."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-10-15 02:12 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Except, for the most part, the strictest science behind it. Insertion, sperm/egg, baby comes out. Plenty of schools across this country still teach abstinence. And the lessons on "safe sex" that the schools who don't teach abstinence use are no more than passing references to birth control before moving on to avoid the topic's awkwardness. So they are not only not helping kids learn about their sexual desires... they are encouraging the suppression of the discussion.

There really isn't anywhere for young men to learn how to interact with girls with whom they'd like to have sex... except at home. And most kids don't want to have that detailed a conversation with their parents.

But they can't learn at school, because schools encourage suppression. And Lord knows we don't want the fucking culture to instill its views on male-female relationship dynamics upon the youth.

So... we're kind of fucked, unless all the assholes of the world die out. Or, you know, unless schools stop being so goddamn prudish and develop a safe environment for young men and young women to be taught about what's appropriate and inappropriate in the pursuit of sexual congress.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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PROMO
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54. "give this reply a round of applause."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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SoWhat
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63. "it'd be great if schools could talk about the subject."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

b/c i know the kids wanna talk about it. the kids NEED TO talk about it. their parents stand in the way b/c of the parents' own foolishness and desire to shield their kids from talk of sex in an attempt to maintain the falsehood of 'innocence' and the parents' fear of their own mortality.

it's really the parents' fault, period. generally, i mean.

fuck you.

  

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Marauder21
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108. "You're starting to KINDA see this in colleges now"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

> Or, you know, unless schools stop being so
>goddamn prudish and develop a safe environment for young men
>and young women to be taught about what's appropriate and
>inappropriate in the pursuit of sexual congress.

But it needs to begin before kids are that old. This should be part of basic sex ed/human growth development that kids learn in schools.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
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Tue Feb-10-15 03:15 PM

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67. "so y'all really think teaching your son not to rape looks like"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"hey kid don't go around raping"

and that's it?
jesus folks. arguing for the sake of arguing.

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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Ashy Achilles
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130. "right"
In response to Reply # 67


          

  

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lazyboi
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73. "."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-11-15 12:24 AM by lazyboi

  

          

.
"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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Kira
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Wed Feb-11-15 03:00 AM

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79. "Call me old school but why should we have to teach men not to rape?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>In your opinion, what ways should this be done, and which ways
>do you think are most effective in the long run? Would it even
>require a complete cultural overhaul, since a lot of what is
>seen as harmless may have rape-type undertones? Do you think
>the laws should be much harsher for those who are convicted?
>
>Do you even think that men who are rapists could have been
>controlled at some point, or that something they experienced
>in life lead to their behavior? I've only read a few stories
>from actual rapists, such as that one Reddit post, and I still
>couldn't point out what could have prevented them from going
>that far.
>

In other words, what is going on that is even a topic of discussion? Dude gets rejected so he forces sex? We need to do a better job as a society of raising men. If you get rejected, go home, go to bed, learn some recipes, hit the gym, get smarter and learn how to court to court women. Tom Brady loses a game and spends the next six days studying film, learning coverages, training his brain and all types of champion level studying to be prepared for the next time.

Men that are rapists deserve the worst treatment possible. Any questionnaire or study would be fooled at some point anyway. Good luck getting men to admit to any of this.

  

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FILF
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81. "So basically:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-Don't drink at parties or dates
-Don't be submissive....actually be firm
-Avoid strangers especially douches
-1st date should be held at a public area
-Be aware of you surrounding & always carry a phone/money
-Flight over fight

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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bonitaapplebaum71481
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84. "a) those are basically rules for women to follow"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

plus b) the point was already made that the man that might rape you doesn't have to be on some stranger danger shit, it really could be and usually is in most cases someone you know

therefore we need to raise boys/men better

  

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SoWhat
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93. "^ women shouldn't have to limit themselves like that."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

So the point is to teach men not to attack women in situations like those. The point is to challenge the notion that men's behavior cannot change - that we all just have to accept that too many men are rapey and that's just the way it is.

But in the interim women are encouraged to be careful due to the risk of rape.

fuck you.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Feb-11-15 08:08 AM

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85. "Cultural overhaul is needed "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A good start would be a federally funded program similar to drivers ed. If boys took and passed the course it would hopefully lead to less rapes, but there should be incentives perhaps for the family in the form of college tuition reimbursements or something like that. An additional incentive would be that should someone who passed or took the course be accused and or found guilty of rape their having taken the course could be a factor in better sentencing.

Speaking of which boys in their teens convicted of rape should be given less stiff penalties then those in their 20's and up and both should be involved in mandatory education classes on the subject. That at least would be a start.

However-- we're talking about a perversely puritanical, racist, and patriarchal culture that views and has viewed women as property for many centuries so good luck getting any kind of change out of that. Getting blood from a stone is probably easier to accomplish.

White men treating white women better leads to white men treating black women better and ultimately black men being treated better.

Black men treating black women better leads to a better black community. You can see how those things are dangerous to America and not likely to be allowed.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Teknontheou
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101. "Considering that US rapes have declined by 80% since 1970"
In response to Reply # 85
Wed Feb-11-15 10:21 AM by Teknontheou

  

          

Maybe we should just keep doing whatever it is we've been doing for the last 45 years.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Feb-11-15 10:42 AM

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104. "Have rapes declined or has the reporting of them declined?"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

The majority of Baby boomers are what now? 60 something on average? I'm thinking the victim and assailant base are largely from that group.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Teknontheou
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109. "All crime has declined dramatically - it's not a reporting issue."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

  

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BabySoulRebel
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115. "*taps you gently on the shoulder*"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

SIR.

http://news.ku.edu/2014/03/03/law-professor-more-1-million-rapes-unreported-official-us-crime-statistics

https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/rape-study-report-america-us_n_4310765.html

Those 3 articles alone prove your point as invalid.

here for dis.

  

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Teknontheou
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116. "Severe underreporting can exist alongside an overall decline."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

It's not an either-or situation.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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118. "but how can you accurately measure a decline"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

when the statistics you're using as a measuring stick aren't accurate to begin with?
It just can't and doesn't work.

here for dis.

  

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Teknontheou
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119. "So rape is the only type of crime that's not in decline?"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

Murder, robbery, asault, are all way down. Even if the number isn't exactly 80%, you'd have to endorse a grand conspiracy theory to say that rape isn't down alot, if not 80%.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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121. "those articles aren't endorsing any conspiracy theories tho"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

they're spitting out cold facts.

Did you even look at the chart in the second article?
out of 100 rapes, on average only 32 of them are reported to the police.
those statistics you keep falling back on are based out of those 32 rapes.
So what should happen to the other 68 rapes that were not reported?
Do they magically not count?
Reporting statistics are not the best bricks to build a foundation for a debate, especially a debate about rape.

here for dis.

  

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SoWhat
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122. "right. using those stats to say that we should just keep doing"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

whatever it is we're doing when only 2 out of 100 rapists will ever go to jail for their crime is kinda appalling.

fuck you.

  

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Teknontheou
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126. "The conspiracy theory is that police departments all over are purposely"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

holding back on classifying rapes as rapes. That's the thrust of the first article's claim.

And again, underreporting is separate from the incidence of rape. If rape reports are way down, that doesn't mean underreporting is somehow way up.

Like I said before, crime is way down throughout the first world in the last 40 years. Rape is part of that, even though too many rapes still go unreported. Something has been happening to make this possible, not that I know what that something is.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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128. "then according to that same conspiracy theory you're quoting"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

your whole argument is once again null and void
because if rapes are being recorded but not being reported as rapes
what makes rape so special as a crime that it's the only crime where the numbers are skewed?
Hell, fudging numbers was a running joke on The Wire
Murders can no longer be murders
Assaults no longer assaults.
So if all the numbers are indeed fudged was there really a true decrease in ANY crimes?

Again
Building your foundation on reporting statistics here, you're essentially building a house of cards.

here for dis.

  

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Teknontheou
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129. "The article claims there's a conspiracy - I'm saying the opposite."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

I'm saying there's no massive conspiracy to underreport crime numbers, rape included. There almost certainly are some situations like on the Wire, but not prevalent enough to have national rape/crime numbers be down 80% in the last 40 years throughout the first world.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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131. "*lesigh*"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

>I'm saying there's no massive conspiracy to underreport crime
>numbers, rape included. There almost certainly are some
>situations like on the Wire, but not prevalent enough to have
>national rape/crime numbers be down 80% in the last 40 years
>throughout the first worl

so even with only 32% of all rapes being reported at all ON AVERAGE
and of that 32% (which is still horrifyingly less than half of all rapes)
there is still a good chance that 32% can be fudged in either direction according to whoever's politics are running the show.

32%, my dear.
that's a number on which what you want to base your argument?

And you never addressed my question in #121
what happens to the other 68% of rapes, the ones that never are recorded on a police report so there's no chance of underreporting period?
Did they magically go away? If they are not reported to the police, do they not deserve to be counted?

here for dis.

  

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Teknontheou
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133. "Fudging on reporting probably cancels itself out at the national"
In response to Reply # 131
Wed Feb-11-15 01:47 PM by Teknontheou

  

          

level, so no, I'm not worried about that part of it. I tend to believe a sharp 40 years drop-off being reported by countless police departments in all 50 states.

As far as what's not reported, we should fight to get those reported and bring the number down to zero.

My point, though, is that something possibly good has been happening to cut the overall number so dramatically in 40 years. Let's try to figure out what that was so that maybe we can intensify that part of the effort.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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135. "I now have a headache"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

you said this:
>My point, though, is that something possibly good has been
>happening to cut the overall number so dramatically in 40
>years. Let's try to figure out what that was so that maybe we
>can intensify that part of the effort.

after typing this:
>As far as what's not reported, we should fight to get those
>reported and bring the number down to zero.

That "dramatic decrease" you keep harping on is still based on only 32% of rapes period so from where I stand there is a whole shitload of things that we HAVEN'T done right in the last 40 years because that other 68% doesn't have enough faith in the legal system to seek justice via that means. Meaning close to 2/3rds of all rape victims.
The sickness may feel like a cure but it is definitely NOT a cure.

here for dis.

  

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Teknontheou
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136. "68% of the total, but the total seems to be decreasing."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

Even if the proportion (68% of rapes unreported) isn't budging.

The size of the pie doesn't necessarily change how it's sliced.

  

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SoWhat
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117. "damn. that issue needs to be solved."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

post haste.

that 2nd chart really hit hard.

fuck you.

  

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BabySoulRebel
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123. "it does, doesn't it?"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

knowing I am one of those 68 unreported rapes on average is like being a member of a club that NO ONE wants to be a member of in the first place.

here for dis.

  

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SoWhat
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124. "yup."
In response to Reply # 123
Wed Feb-11-15 12:26 PM by SoWhat

  

          

that's why teaching men not to rape and getting rid of the idea that we just have to accept that some (too many) men are rapey and that's that is important, IMO.

dealing w/an unreported rape as a survivor is TOUGH. b/c it's like...that motherfucker (or those) is still out there. and he knows what he did and he got away w/it. and he may have hurt someone else. but just having to see him or just knowing he's out there breathing and unchallenged on this is maddening.

fuck you.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Feb-11-15 09:29 AM

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90. "who is taught to rape?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i mean...it happens i'm sure but i'd find it hard to believe that date rapists and stereotypical rapist weren't taught by parents not to rape...

i wasn't explicitly taught not to rape... never raped

i guess in the grayer areas it will help take the numbers down a tad...

but we have a culture where relationships, sex, and power and the access to those social resources is currency...

if you teach your kid to be ambitious and to go out for what he wants...at some point if conflicts no matter how much emphasis u put on one to the other...

and society reinforces it...

i'm not saying it shouldn't be done...i think it is being done...maybe it could be done better or more explicitly but yea...

we are all taught not to lie...yet we all do...

i don't think rape is as inevitable as lying clearly...just saying a parent's teaching is gonna take a backseat to real life social pressures more often than not

so many other societal changes need to occur for it to be remotely as effective as we seem to think it will be...direction of pursuit, puritanical views about sex, and more peer-policing

it's a thin line between aggressive prince charming and predator and i think if that changes...we will see NOTICEABLE reduction of social rape

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Wed Feb-11-15 10:21 AM

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102. "should be the same as 'teach someone not to steal'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Stoogie
Member since Dec 06th 2006
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105. "Not quite"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

Sometimes it's ok to steal...even necessary

Can't say the same w/ rape.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

  

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blackrussian
Member since Oct 17th 2010
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Wed Feb-11-15 11:28 AM

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113. "Four in 10 teenage girls coerced into sex acts"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i wasn't even looking for this, it just popped up:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/11/teenage-girls-coerced-sex-survey

More than four in 10 girls between the ages of 13 and 17 in England say they have been coerced into sex acts, according to one of the largest European polls on teenage sexual experiences.

The survey, also carried out in Bulgaria, Cyprus, Italy and Norway found that teenage girls in England reported the highest rates of sexual coercion, with about one in five (22%) saying they had suffered physical violence or intimidation from boyfriends, including slapping, punching, strangling and being beaten with an object.

The research by the Universities of Bristol and Central Lancashire and the NSPCC found that a high proportion of teenage boys regularly viewed pornography, and one in five harboured extremely negative attitudes towards women.

The study comprised a school-based survey of 4,500 children and 100 interviews with young people across the five countries.

Dr Christine Barter, an NSPCC senior research fellow based at Bristol’s School for Policy Studies, said the findings highlighted the dangers that young children were being exposed to because of a lack of support.

“Our research findings show that across Europe violence and abuse, both offline and online, in young people’s relationships constitutes a major problem, yet in most countries it remains unrecognised, leaving young people with little support or appropriate services,” she said.

In the interviews, many children said the pressure to have sex was so persistent that it had become “normal”. Katie, a 15-year-old who took part in the survey in England, told the researchers: “I’ve had relationships where I wouldn’t be able to go out with my friends because they’d get angry with me. I have been raped and other things like that.”

Almost four in 10 (39%) English boys aged 14-17 said they regularly watched pornography, and 18% strongly agreed with statements such as “It is sometimes acceptable for a man to hit a woman if she has been unfaithful” and “Women lead men on sexually and then complain about the attention they get”.

Some teenagers in relationships said their partners controlled their online behaviour, checking their social media activity and telling them whom they could “friend”. Such controlling online behaviour was linked to “real life” abuse, said the report.

It also found that young people reporting violence and abuse in their relationships were at least twice as likely to have sent a sexual image or text. Among the 1,001 children surveyed in England, 44% of girls and 32% of boys had sent a sexual image or text to their boyfriend or girlfriend – the highest rate among the five countries. Just over 40% of girls who sent sexual images or texts said they had been shared by their boyfriend with other people.

Just under half of girls and boys in England had received such messages, and 27% said they had sent them because they felt pressured by a partner to do so.

Girls who took part in the study revealed “serious distress and harm following abusive behaviour from boyfriends”, said the report’s co-author Nicky Stanley, a professor of social work at the University of Central Lancashire. “Education and campaigns need to challenge stereotypical behaviour and attitudes in boys and the law in this area should be clearly communicated to young people, their parents and teachers,” she said.

Claire Lilley, head of child safety online at the NSPCC, said the research, funded by the European commission, should act as a wake-up call for the government to make sure teenagers receive clear teaching about healthy relationships. The Department for Education has long resisted calls from campaigners to make sex and relationship education compulsory for all students.

“The levels of victimisation revealed by this research shows action is urgently needed by the government to make updated sex and relationship education a statutory right for every child and young person,” Lilley said. “There needs to be a greater focus in schools on topics such as sexual exploitation and violence against girls and young women, as part of a balanced curriculum.”

  

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BabySoulRebel
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Wed Feb-11-15 12:03 PM

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120. ":'( :'( :'("
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

this topic is hitting too close to home
dealing with this in my personal life YET AGAIN
trying to teach these young ladies coming up how to navigate these kinds of murky waters is probably one of the hardest jobs I'll ever have.

I was reflecting over the latest situation with my neighbor
She was talking about telling her niece what to do if she's in a situation where she's making out with her boyfriend and their play starts to progress (sitting up and making out in this case to laying down and making out)

The way she described the talk, it went directly from the making out to sex (it's okay to lay down and make out BUT DON'T HAVE SEX)

o_O

no wonder kids don't know wtf to do
we're jumping from point A to point Z without any acknowledgement of the steps it takes to get there and I pointed this out to my neighbor.
We're telling these kids JUST SAY NO with no connection to the real world and all its nuances PLUS teaching them that the only way to express physical intimacy is sex. You don't just magically start go straight from making out to fucking (if you're grown then yes but we're not talking about that right now), there's kissing, licking, sucking, dry humping etc. All perfectly acceptable ways of expressing physical intimacy.

I say all this to say that I agree with more comprehensive sex education including consent from both parents and educators which has echoed all up and down this post.

here for dis.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Wed Feb-11-15 01:52 PM

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134. "yep we've talked about the grey area"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

theres soooo much ground thats not covered

and we letting kids out the with a manual for A
a manual for Z

and nada for B through Y

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
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Wed Feb-11-15 12:33 PM

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125. "Just Had Convo W/ Friend About This"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Rape is an extreme that catches everyone's attention, that nearly everyone can agree is "bad."

On some level, I think sexual violence and violation are about asserting power and domination by means of humiliation and degradation.

I honestly think more men would think twice about sexual violence/ violation and not commit crimes if there were reason to "respect" a woman's phyical strength. If a man knew a woman could overpower him or seriously injure him, he'd likely keep his fucking hands to himself.

Troubling male attitudes (some held and internalized by women), exist and are permissible in non-sexual situations, long before women are raped.

I think more of a relevant read about rape may yield a constructive conversation, say, in a discussion about street harassment or sexual harassment. Permissible attitudes and beliefs some men hold and feel entitled to hold...which are RAPEY...bubble up.

Most troubling in such convos?

Some men tend to feel entitled and view all women as sexually available-- simply yes--turned on or no--turned on projections dictated by one's lust and libido. Such men don't think about what women want, prefer, or what may be pleasurable for women.

It's not so much about sex-- but sex is used as an excuse to play a power game, a game wherein men assert their "manhood" through domination of women. Some forms of domination are more palatable and acceptable than others.

Domination and aggression aren't wonderful things and neither is taking what one wants. Ask folks who are dominated.

The issue, to me, is that some men have a difficult time granting and respecting the personhood of women. Some men are raised to dominate and to believe they are dominant. For no damn good reason: character or heart doesn't seem to matter. And so some women, in such a universe, seem to only exist as an extension of themselves or in relationshipp to some shitty understanding some men have about who or what a woman is.

When it comes to any woman: do some men want to be lord and master? Or do they prefer friendship and fairness? Sometimes, I don't know. And at best, it seems either "position" is at odds with the other. Privilege is hard to relinquish.

Can men be taught not to rape? Yep. Men can not do a ,ot of things that constitute sexual assualt, violence, harassment and misconduct. They simply choose not to becuase they don't think they have to. Such thinking can be changed.

At this point, on a personal note, I'd rather a man genuinely respect me first before professing to care for or love me.

Vent over.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Feb-11-15 12:39 PM

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127. "i like all of that."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

fuck you.

  

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LES
Member since Oct 17th 2006
4503 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 08:13 PM

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138. "fail to see any downsides to this"
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__________
http://leswrite.com/

  

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bayoubyyou
Member since Nov 06th 2005
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Wed Feb-11-15 08:48 PM

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139. "a coworker pulled aside one of my students today for this reason"
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one student was exchanging licks with two girls so I kept them separated. the male student walked towards the girls one time and one of the girls said "don't touch me." He did anyway. That led to the preaching about that kid being old enough now for that to be a real problem and how he needs to respect young women when they say they don't want to be touched AND to protect himself from getting into trouble.

I want to thank that teacher tomorrow.

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
20414 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 09:00 PM

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142. "we had this thing in Dallas"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/outreach/2014/08/18/14046966/

and really was all about men being their with their sons. and about teaching them how men really should be acting.

  

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