Mariah released her first album in 1990, so I can see that, but she's consistently released material alongside Erykah's years
Mary 411 (92); My Life (94); Share My World (97)
Baduizm (97)
Who is Jill (00)
Destiny's Child (98) / Dangerously In Love (03)
I mean, who are her contemporaries if not them
also Erykah is the only one of them I know that this happens with: a woman who listen to Mariah, Bey, or mainstream R&B still listens to Erykah, if they are the type that doesn't really fuck with R&B like that they more than likely listen to Erykah.
6. "Is she R&B? i always thought she was more Soul" In response to Reply # 0
I always considered R&B different from Soul. Anyway, Badu is the most creative and has the best/most diverse songs. I don't think her voice is as great as Jill though, but I'd still rather listen to her music.
7. "she is our post modern Billie Holliday, and not by accident. " In response to Reply # 6
i thought that ever since i first heard on & on and if anything, the comparison has become more apt over time.
(your comments re: voice made me think of that).
she don't have the best 'voice', but she's a stylist, creator of moods and vibes and conductor of emotions. i fux w/ jill, too, when she ain't taking herself too seriously. she can saing and emote and play the artiste...
but i'll listen to erykah ALL damn day ay day over, say, a beyonce or whitney type singer. maybe i just detest pop music.
========================================= I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and not having much to show for it. (c) mad
61. "RE: She's the only female artist of the last decade" In response to Reply # 8
>who's music I can consistently listen to. I thought Jill was >going to be that one, but her music slipped dramatically to me >in the last several years.
That first Jill might be the best album in that lane over the last 20 years. The women in my life from that period of time still swear by that thing. And I can't imagine how many times I listened to it myself even if I don't regularly revisit it. I can hear anything off of it now and be all in all over again. It really was special.
That first one, the live/double CD, the soundtrack songs (Easy Conversation!), and the 2nd full album is one helluva testimony for Jill in an argument over her vs Badu. And I've vouched heavily for Mama's Gun as the best thing going among the 'original' neo-soul folks from the mid-90s. As grand as Voodoo is, I don't hear it as being dramatically 'better' than Mama's Gun if it is even better at all.
i like BM more than all of Erykah's albums. and i like all of Erykah's albums.
Mama's Gun is the only one she's got that's in the conversation w/BM. it's her only great album, IMO. but that's no shade, of course. b/c most acts don't have a great album at all. and i am definitely a Badu fan. i've seen her in concert almost every time she's been in Chicago (i missed one show). my first time seeing her i sat front row center in a mid-size theater and could hear her w/o the mic (Mama's Gun Tour). i was blown away. and i was a fan already but i became a super fan after that show. then yrs later i noticed what she's dragging behind her.... LAWD. i am a huge fan.
but Black Messiah is better than all of her albums, IMO. i can be honest about that.
...i keep relistening to BM trying to hear what people are going wild over around here...and i still don't hear it...it's a cool lil album, but it ain't as good as the first two albums or most of Erykah's catalog, and i couldn't wait for BM to come out...
"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus
25. "if i think beyond her albums and include her stage show" In response to Reply # 0
and singles and guest appearances and the number of times i've seen her over the last 15 yrs on stage and on TV and all that...maybe.
i'd put her on the list over other R&B acts i dig - including D'Angelo and Maxwell.
i agree that it's between her and Kellz, really. as icky as Kellz has become due to his rapey ways (i don't care about the acquittal - i hear the video is thoroughly convincing and i haven't seen it b/c i don't watch kiddie porn), the man has released more hot music over the last 20+ yrs than any other R&B act that comes to mind. plus i saw that Pitchfork show in Chicago a couple summers back and he rocked the hell out of that shit. however, i've heard too many bad reports of his other concerts.
so damn. i might agree that Erykah's got the crown.
37. "latent sexism" In response to Reply # 35 Fri Feb-06-15 08:28 PM by howisya
even from those with the best of intentions, it's all too easy to fall into the trap of evaluating female artists in a female context rather than, ahem, broader one even when there is no call for gender restriction
28. "RE: If we're being honest with ourselves" In response to Reply # 0 Fri Feb-06-15 05:17 PM by double 0
Nah..
She's not even on the board.. I don't think she fits in any lineage. her voice might lend itself to Jazz but her innovations imo make her a one of one..
You can't place her in a direct line from anywhere and NO ONE can even try and compete with her in her lane..
Like Bjork can't be the best female pop artist of her generation in the same way..
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
32. "RE: WHAT" In response to Reply # 31 Fri Feb-06-15 06:38 PM by double 0
Ok..
imo there is an industry race... and then there are folks who are only competing with themselves..
Genre's are created and delineated for said industry race..
If you are only competing with yourself and your previous catalog I do not think that you can be considered a part of the genre per se..
I don't consider her an "R&B" artist.. you can only get her type of music from her..
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
39. "divide and conquer" In response to Reply # 32
i understand where you are coming from, but once we start thinking our artists are too precious for comparisons and having peers, we leave the door open for less talented and creative but commercially successful artists to reap all the praise while the "unique snowflake" melts into the sidewalk
40. "RE: divide and conquer" In response to Reply # 39
but in certain cases it doesn't work.
If a Bjork song is wack.. its wack cuz its wack in comparison to other Bjork songs not an Ariana grande song or a Twigs song or even a massive attack or Portsihead song
Erykah's 'real' peer group is rappers.. but we'll never compare her to them..
imo there are some artists from day one that are like this.. more often than not people grow into this type of artist..
Keep in mind I am not and can never be the general public so my view is definitely skewed
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
42. "it's just too easy not to try" In response to Reply # 40
i once said bjork is the greatest artist since the beatles. i wouldn't go that far today, but she's one of my favorites, and i regard a large majority of her music at that quality level. is bjork a rock or guitar pop band? nooo, but it doesn't have to be an exact comparison. a comparison to the beatles is as valid as a comparison to portishead or fka twigs or as to joni mitchell, the slits, or jean sibelius. you can state your case, and the comparison can be as abstract as you want it to be, even if that means evaluating a singer like a rapper. it's dismissive to the artists not to care enough about them to try to discuss them with those outside of their fanbase in ways they can comprehend, and it's selling yourself short as an overall music fan not to learn and process the history and dig for the influences, peers, and similar artists that are always there, always. i'm saying from experience if you don't make any effort then those who don't already know continue not to know and those artists whose music is basic and superficial continue to reap the benefits of their visibility. i'm sure you can appreciate we are in a funny time when people who shouldn't be able can easily rewrite history and shape the future, but they can only do that if we let them.
43. "Yonce tho." In response to Reply # 0 Fri Feb-06-15 09:13 PM by SoWhat
Kellz MJB Yonce Erykah Usher
gotta add Yonce to the conversation - the singles, the videos, the stage shows, the fabulousness. i can't put her at the top but i understand those who would.
50. "honestly, my lady has made me appreciate Yonce" In response to Reply # 43
on many levels
as a live performer, she is undeniable.
her videos, even while catering to a certain scope of the popular imagination, are still high quality pieces that balance art and entertainment better than most, if not all, of her peers.
while she always had songs I could fuck with, her last S/T album was good. not good for a major label album, not good for her, just damn good period.
and even though intellectuals and white feminist try to front on her, she's def added a beautiful element to erotic and sexual landscape of American beauty standards, for whatever that's worth
52. "how much of the yonce's live show is audio playback?" In response to Reply # 50 Fri Feb-06-15 10:34 PM by howisya
i'm sure it's an entertaining concert, but it's hard to gauge her as "a live performer" of music without knowing how much is performed live
before anyone says anything, i'm not naive about how many r&b singers lip sync and have their bands miming to playback or how long this has been happening nor am i saying she doesn't sing live or that dancing and showmanship aren't impressive in their own regard, and in the context of this generation of singers a comparison with past eras where there was less to no playback is hardly relevant
69. "RE: i saw the On the Run Tour." In response to Reply # 56
>i noticed her lip sync only one song. the rest she sang >live.
did she do that thing a lot of pop and r&b singers these days are doing where she sang live but had a prerecorded vocal track running throughout for background vocals and chorus? that's what i was talking about as much as blatant lip synching. usually these artists don't even pretend to be singing all of the vocals at a concert and assume by now the audience accepts it isn't all live. what's weird to me is there are usually multiple background singers. that tells me the artist is a control freak and doesn't trust or want to bother teaching the singers their parts or prefers his or her own voice to drown them out either because he or she is just that into the sound of his or her own voice or assumes the audience would prefer it to live singing from other voices.
>her band is live (and all women). her backing vocalists sing >live (and are all women too). > >my homie saw the Mrs. Carter Show and said it was the same - >she sang live, had a live band and live backing vocalists.
good. i may be wrong about having seen some performance where she had the backing track (the beat) going while the band was on stage, or maybe she only does that for tv. i've never seen her live, i'm not really a fan, but i wouldn't be opposed either. i've heard good things for a long time.
it's not either/or, player, nor is it a quiz. if you don't want to address the specifics of what i asked, that's fine; i also would have accepted "there was no prerecorded instrumentation or singing whatsoever" from someone who was actually there if you had offered it.
all i was asking was if, to your knowledge/recollection, she sang along with her own voice and if the band played along with the beat. there are at least three scenarios i could think of:
all prerecorded (you ruled that out) combination of live singing and playing with playback all live
74. "The Loveland era..." In response to Reply # 48
cements and validates him musically. Obviously, he should've used more live instrumentation. And of course the impact will probably never be seen as it should've been because of the tape AND the way Ignition RMX took over during the same timeframe.
But Robert temporarily took a huge step away from the rap-singing/R&B Thuggin stuff and went back to work as an straight-ahead artist for those Loveland sessions. He kept the phrasing 70s simple, dropped the late 90s double time delivery BS, and showed off the natural vocals that put him over most everyone who was popular back then. And it was a great put up or shut up moment for the genre.
I remember Step in the Name of Love stopping people in their tracks in a record store I would frequent back then. That one bootleg led me to all of the conversations you'd think it led to because the video was 'out there'. And the last note was usually something like 'I still can't condone what he's done outside of singing, but that dude is a great talent'.
59. "If we're talking about complete artistry, Erykah got it." In response to Reply # 0
The image, the creativity, the songwriting, the live shows, the influence. Everything.
Beyonce falls short on the songwriting angle, too many cowriters.
Mary J is in the same boat. Youll never hear a song and say "This sounds like Mary J Blige"
Beyonce is more of an "icon," but she'll never be seen as a complete artist.
Its not too late for her tho. Marvin Gaye was out there dropping cover after cover when he first started. Pre-Whats Going On? Marvin wasn't THE Marvin.
Im interested in seeing where the Yonce goes, shes at the stage of her career where she can do whatever she wants and uh...
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