2. "Unions were never that strong in the south. " In response to Reply # 0
When the GOP started courting Southern Whites, it's not like they really had to contend with powerful unions in those states.
Up north I think it has to do with how the GOP tied themselves to business interests.
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard
3. ""the unions got greedy/lazy" line was pushed hard by the neoliberal econ..." In response to Reply # 0
Rather than getting seen as a way to protect the social safety net and the dignity of work, the story in the 80s and 90s became unions were just a special interest group that was dragging down the productivity of the US economy. Same thing happened in England under Thatcher.
The Middle-class bought this line because there was a 1)general fatigue with Democratic/Left-wing ideas, 2)mid class and working increasingly lived in different neighborhoods/social spheres/regions of the country 3) we were getting 3% gdp growth again under the reagan recovery
4. "First, they made it harder for people to unionize" In response to Reply # 0
then, once those people weren't in unions, they pointed at the good deals that union employees got through collective bargaining. This fostered jealousy and created a sentiment akin to "we have a shitty deal, they should have one too"
So now you've got one group of working class people with better salary and benefits than another group of working class people, and a group of politicians saying that the reason that the non-union employees aren't doing better in life is because of the unions.
*Jews you*
"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus
>then, once those people weren't in unions, they pointed at >the good deals that union employees got through collective >bargaining. This fostered jealousy and created a sentiment >akin to "we have a shitty deal, they should have one too" > >So now you've got one group of working class people with >better salary and benefits than another group of working class >people, and a group of politicians saying that the reason that >the non-union employees aren't doing better in life is because >of the unions.
55. "but what about service jobs, office workers and infrastructural shit?" In response to Reply # 5
i guess the latter has a good number of unionized labor still, but overall there is still a population and the overwhelming majority of it is still working.
so why didn't unions make the transition to other markets? i think that is the question
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
61. "like i said, class warfare." In response to Reply # 55
they made the unions look corny at best, terrible at worst, and pitched the idea that you were either blue collar (aka union) or white collar (aka corporate).
so, if you're a white collar guy - where those service jobs you mentioned are, why would you want a union? that's for those blue collar people.
6. "NAFTA didn't help either" In response to Reply # 0 Sun Feb-01-15 02:52 PM by Mynoriti
companies were now able to ship their operation to mexico, etc.. and then say "Well we'd love to keep our jobs in the US, but the union is being unreasonable in their expectations"
and just the general not being able to compete with cheap labor on a global scale.
the less power unions had to stop the bleeding, the more easily they're seen as just a greedy, corrupt, ineffective, antiquated institution and not much more than another special interest group who's time has passed. people repeat ad nauseam that the unions are to blame, and unions are a bad thing. it starts setting in peeople's heads... they become easy scapegoats along with immigrants, welfare, etc...
i'm talking out of my ass a bit, but i do think its a decent size factor
1) Butchers at a Walmart in a small Texas town successfully joined a union. This inspired butchers in other stores to try to do the same thing. What did Walmart do? Two weeks after the Texas butchers unionized, Walmart permanently closed down the meat departments nationwide. Shut the whole shit down lol.
2). There was a Canadian Walmart that successfully unionized. Walmart just shut the store down.
13. "lots of people still believe that about teachers" In response to Reply # 10
My mom is a middle school teacher and shes considering a career change
Teaching is portrayed as like a slacker job or something, and its not even close to something most skilled college grads would ever consider unless they were planning on it anyways as a labor of love. Its neither valued nor respected by conservative politicians, so its not an attractive career path for students who dont know what they want to do yet.
And part of the science thing is the idea that somehow highly educated americans arent "real" americans. Thats the second biggest okie doke.
38. "Dems general pussyass ways have helped the GOP push the narrative" In response to Reply # 21
it was funny in 08 watching Hilary argue against NAFTA that her husband signed into law, not on some "I will repeal NAFTA on day one!", but more like how when she gets into office she may kinda have to re-evaluate her man's NAFTA decision. maybe. or something.
Obama big upped unions, but hasn't done much to try to defend them. now seems to be following suit which this new trade deal.. which I'm not sure what's behind his reasoning other than he's either fallen for the same shit, or he'd just that desperate to get some bi-partisan shit done that doesn't involve military action.
but the GOP are still the ones who have convinced the public that unions are a stranglehold on job creators, and bad for america. Dems (except for maybe a few) have abandoned unions, because they don't think unions are politically worth saving.
12. "cognitive dissonance. " In response to Reply # 0
said it before ill say it again.
americans by & large (& maybe humanity) are binary people. we dont do nuance well.
good/bad right/wrong Black/White
most white people see themselves & think "good. right. beauty. rich" etc
and therefore MUST view others who arent them as "bad. wrong. ugly. poor" etc
so when democrats gave Blacks the right to vote...a lot of people viewed it as an affront to their way of life. to their view of themselves, what they believe in in their core, in their soul.
because if THAT is right...if THAT is good. if THAT is beautiful and positive...then what am I?!
so anything associated with Blacks...had to be bad. had to be wrong. had to negative.
democrats. unions. govt. etc
we are talking on a deep...subconcious level here. but still.
15. "RE: cognitive dissonance. " In response to Reply # 12 Sun Feb-01-15 06:40 PM by neuro_OSX
I wonder if the influence of religion on society has something to do with this mentality. christianity is full of good vs. evil stories not much nuance, either your for god or the devil, not many if any grey areas. And of course religion is one of the primary tools conservatives use to manipulate the masses.
"You used to be so cool, but now, you know you're so cold"
~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
39. "yeah, i don't really see that either" In response to Reply # 18
other than they've tried to use some the same arguments against food stamps/welfare (that they've managed to pin on black ppl), for unions. that union workers are generally just lazy, and entitled.
43. "maybe i'm just removed. when i think union workers i think "joe sixpack..." In response to Reply # 40
even if i think auto workers, i think of them as a pretty mixed bunch.
not really a racial component. just blue collar folks. never really seen/heard much that points to race playing a big role in how most americans view unions.
But ironically my intro to unions was throu ticketmaster The operators were definitely largely minority Very well paying job for an 18 year old I definitely didn't appreciate it then
When I realized my mom was also in a huge Union 1199 And realized a majority of nurses, nurses aids and careworkers were minority and women That's when it began to sink in The 'bosses' in charge of the Union not so much Security guards Porters blue collar in certain jobs has changed face I think that infiltration or perception went a long way ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
19. "White people will fight against their own best interest" In response to Reply # 0
to protect themselves from the perceived take over by people of color...
Republicans can block veteran bills...cut funding for veterans...and White right wing veterans will still support the party....
these people will compromise anything ..their own job..their own health care...their religion ...everything... just to support the side they think will protect their future from the Black and Brown people...
hell..the Israeli government used to collab with South African Nazi dudes on how each could protect themselves their respective majority neighbors of color... the history between Jews and Nazi's didn't mean shit to them when it was about their own racial survival...
White people will be in unions and still vote for the party that's trying to destroy the unions because they think the Right is going to protect them from people of color taking over their country...
28. "^^ Most Underrated Reply." In response to Reply # 19
>to protect themselves from the perceived take over by people >of color... > >Republicans can block veteran bills...cut funding for >veterans...and White right wing veterans will still support >the party.... > >these people will compromise anything ..their own job..their >own health care...their religion ...everything... just to >support the side they think will protect their future from the >Black and Brown people... > >hell..the Israeli government used to collab with South African >Nazi dudes on how each could protect themselves their >respective majority neighbors of color... the history between >Jews and Nazi's didn't mean shit to them when it was about >their own racial survival... > >White people will be in unions and still vote for the party >that's trying to destroy the unions because they think the >Right is going to protect them from people of color taking >over their country...
. . . "Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."
>to protect themselves from the perceived take over by people >of color... > >Republicans can block veteran bills...cut funding for >veterans...and White right wing veterans will still support >the party.... > >these people will compromise anything ..their own job..their >own health care...their religion ...everything... just to >support the side they think will protect their future from the >Black and Brown people... > >hell..the Israeli government used to collab with South African >Nazi dudes on how each could protect themselves their >respective majority neighbors of color... the history between >Jews and Nazi's didn't mean shit to them when it was about >their own racial survival... > >White people will be in unions and still vote for the party >that's trying to destroy the unions because they think the >Right is going to protect them from people of color taking >over their country...
There's a reason why the most egalitarian societies in the world tend to be pretty homogeneous racially.
TheAlbionist Member since Jul 04th 2011 3306 posts
Mon Feb-02-15 08:28 AM
23. "Tangling up unions with organised crime went a long way, I think." In response to Reply # 0
The two seem to go quietly hand in hand when portrayed in a lot of American media... I think that made a lot of 'working' people very suspicious of the Union movement.
The first big RICO wins against the Mob came around a similar time to Reagan and Thatcher starting their quest against the Unions and those cases seemed to all reek of corrupt union bosses, no-show contracts and all sorts of stuff that it's easy to rile up "good, honest, hard-working people" with. Whether it was planned or not, it's just classic divide and conquer.
"Those poor people over there are slightly less poor than they should be! They get paid sick leave! GET THEM! Also, if you could just keep your eyes on them whilst I set up this bank account in a tax haven..."
Unions are a very, VERY good thing.
>I get how they turn the masses on Big Government. Big >Government = hand outs to black and brown people. > >But unions? It seems to me working class white folks would >have a natural affinity to unions. > >Never figured out how Reagan firing the Air Traffic Control >Unionist made him a hero and not villianize him among the >working class folks. > >What am I missing? > >********** >"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then >they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson > >http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/
26. "they sold the narrative that unions exist to protect lazy workers too." In response to Reply # 0 Mon Feb-02-15 09:09 AM by SoWhat
that good workers don't need the protection of a union b/c they're alright. they shifted the narrative from talking about management at all. so the idea that even good workers need protection from corrupt management is gone. b/c we don't hear about corrupt management.
along the same line as the idea that business owners should receive tax breaks b/c when they pay less in taxes they have extra bread which they will spend to hire more employees. even though yrs of the tax breaking as proved that biz owners don't spend any extra bread no their employees and in many cases they don't spend it at all.
29. "they fell madly in love with bootstraps/exceptionalism/joe the plumber" In response to Reply # 0
mentality
that the 1% made it there thru simple hard work and nothing else
and i like to think of myself in the likes of those guys, who i really have nothing in common with, except race instead of the multicolor group of ppl that i could unionize with, that i cross paths with everyday
)))--####---###--(((
bunda <-.-> ^_^ \^0^/ get busy living, or get busy dying.
30. "how come no one ever brings this stuff up on conservative media?" In response to Reply # 0
maybe they do, i don't watch a ton of fox news or anything but i never seen it but the whole voting against your own interest thing seems like an easy trump card that should be getting used every argument basically i watched fox news after the SOTU just to see the response and they had a panel of ppl (with like 5+ blacks) and every one was pretty much lock step with all the dumb arguments
31. "The Unions didn't do themselves any favors" In response to Reply # 0
Let me clarify: unions have historically been the best thing for American workers. Every workplace safety regulation and benefit was brought to us by unions, but the voices of the people who've been fucked by unions resonate louder because most people place too much value on anecdotal evidence. The guy who's brother lost his house because he couldn't cross a picket line tells everyone he knows, and they tell every one they know.
And let's also remember that there are two types of unions; the kind you join after you get the job, and the kind you have to join before you can be hired. The latter category has been a hotbed of corruption, cronyism and discrimination, serving to keep minorities out of the skilled trades.
33. "funny - i've never heard this story." In response to Reply # 31
> the voices of the >people who've been fucked by unions resonate louder because >most people place too much value on anecdotal evidence. The >guy who's brother lost his house because he couldn't cross a >picket line tells everyone he knows, and they tell every one >they know.
i dunno anyone w/this story.
*shrugs*
but anyway, union corruption is a problem, for sure. but the GOP convinced white ppl that the solution to the corruption is to be rid of unions rather than, you know, actually fixing the corruption and keeping the unions.
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
54. "Divide/Conquer plus the bootstraps myth" In response to Reply # 0
First you weaken unions and exclude laborers from them, then you paint the union workers as over-privileged and you tie it together as part of this broader bullshit that anyone being guaranteed anything is unamerican and the only way to accomplish anything is to "earn" it.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
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