Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #12706906

Subject: "Where did all the matter in the universe come from? " Previous topic | Next topic
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Where did all the matter in the universe come from? "
Fri Jan-23-15 10:07 AM by Case_One

  

          

If you believe in the Big Bang Theory, as well as The First Law of Thermodynamics which asserts that matter or its energy equivalent can neither be created nor destroyed, then how did all of the matter in the universe originate from one single point of explosion?

The fact is there are a lot of theories, but that's just it - no one knows. But I'm sure that someone on OKP has the answer.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Brace yourself, angry text book readers are coming.
Jan 23rd 2015
1
I feel the ground shaking...LOL
Jan 23rd 2015
5
      I answered your question in no.12
Jan 23rd 2015
16
           See post #21
Jan 23rd 2015
22
                #27
Jan 23rd 2015
30
Walmart
Jan 23rd 2015
2
But can we get a Roll Back on Mars...LOL
Jan 23rd 2015
6
lol
Jan 23rd 2015
170
*Mutley laugh*
Jan 23rd 2015
84
an omniscient white man somewhere in the sky made it
Jan 23rd 2015
3
Why he gotta be White doe?
Jan 23rd 2015
7
      Why he gotta be a HE?
Jan 23rd 2015
109
           why he gotta be in the sky
Jan 23rd 2015
116
           Father, Lord, etc.
Jan 23rd 2015
150
*paging stravinskian or any other Ok-astrophysicists*
Jan 23rd 2015
4
Grabs note book and recording device.
Jan 23rd 2015
8
      Cmon now, this is a religion vs science post
Jan 23rd 2015
11
           Money, I've studied the matter and No Scientist knows - factually
Jan 23rd 2015
18
           that what makes Science so great vs making it all up like religion
Jan 23rd 2015
23
           touché
Jan 23rd 2015
25
           So what's really going on here?
Jan 23rd 2015
26
                We just having conversation.
Jan 23rd 2015
35
           It's only vs if you want it to be
Jan 23rd 2015
54
                A Catholic priest/scientist first proposed the Big Bang Theory
Jan 23rd 2015
82
                     RE: A Catholic priest/scientist first proposed the Big Bang Theory
Jan 23rd 2015
106
                     Why can't an omnipotent creator create science
Jan 23rd 2015
129
                          because science is a human process for discovery
Jan 23rd 2015
155
                               why is the human considered "separate" to nature?
Jan 23rd 2015
167
Don't know. And that's okay.
Jan 23rd 2015
9
I'm in this line
Jan 23rd 2015
10
^^^
Jan 23rd 2015
13
This question has an answer. :)
Jan 23rd 2015
14
And none of us really have it
Jan 23rd 2015
55
^ ^ ^ TYBG ^ ^ ^ /post
Jan 23rd 2015
15
^^^^God.
Jan 23rd 2015
24
God requires faith. Not everyone is a person of faith.
Jan 23rd 2015
29
      The Big Bang model requires faith too.
Jan 23rd 2015
31
      I said not everyone is a person of FAITH
Jan 23rd 2015
39
           I know, I just think its ironic that science takes the big bang
Jan 23rd 2015
46
                only if math = faith
Jan 23rd 2015
58
                     Not at all, it's simple.
Jan 23rd 2015
62
                          big bang theory does not say that
Jan 23rd 2015
70
                          Sure it does.
Jan 23rd 2015
71
                               you are quoting wiki? Really?
Jan 23rd 2015
88
                                    ugh. That is the correct definition of The Big Bang Model.
Jan 23rd 2015
95
                          that's not how it works
Feb 11th 2015
207
      i disagree
Jan 23rd 2015
34
           You are being deliberately obtuse
Jan 23rd 2015
38
                call it what you wanna call, God doesnt care abt that either.
Jan 23rd 2015
44
                I love when people define what god is.
Jan 23rd 2015
48
                Even if God defined himself people would still deny the definition
Jan 23rd 2015
59
                According to Zen, God does not and will never show him/herself.
Jan 23rd 2015
65
                     That would make the Pope a Zen master right?
Jan 23rd 2015
143
                          Phil Jackson is the Pope?
Feb 11th 2015
204
                i think you dont know how to read.
Jan 23rd 2015
61
                     You know this for a fact?
Jan 23rd 2015
66
                          that you dont know how to read? yeah im concrete on that one.
Jan 23rd 2015
67
                               You have far too much angst to have a respectful conversation with.
Jan 23rd 2015
69
                                    There's no convo to have
Jan 23rd 2015
85
                                         You can continue to project, and I'll continue to skate by you. :)
Jan 23rd 2015
96
                And once we figure it out, then what?
Jan 23rd 2015
49
                     no shit hunh?
Jan 23rd 2015
63
                          LOL.
Jan 23rd 2015
91
                But everyone believes in a god
Jan 23rd 2015
57
                     jesus chirst
Jan 23rd 2015
89
                          U mad bro?
Jan 23rd 2015
164
yep
Jan 23rd 2015
123
That's not a correct application of the first law
Jan 23rd 2015
12
^ DING DING DING DING DING
Jan 23rd 2015
75
RE: That's not a correct application of the first law
Jan 23rd 2015
113
Scientist do have explanations though. Too much for me to grasp
Jan 23rd 2015
17
RE: Scientist have theories, not a solid answer.
Jan 23rd 2015
20
      Fair enough. In my mind they all co-exist.
Jan 23rd 2015
28
           For me,Science helps to explain the mysteries of God
Jan 23rd 2015
64
                Ha! for me it's the other way around. God explains the mysteries of Sci...
Jan 23rd 2015
128
When you try and troll science, get your science trolling right
Jan 23rd 2015
19
Right here homie and other places
Jan 23rd 2015
21
      *IN A CLOSED SYSTEM*
Jan 23rd 2015
27
           Ok, Let's go with the OP. Where did the matter come from?
Jan 23rd 2015
32
                Noone knows.
Jan 23rd 2015
37
                     RE: Noone knows.
Jan 23rd 2015
56
Jesus?
Jan 23rd 2015
33
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/234/739/fa5.jpg
Jan 23rd 2015
36
lol
Jan 23rd 2015
51
RE: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/234/739/fa5.jpg
Jan 23rd 2015
168
LOFL
Jan 24th 2015
186
I bet it was Jesus.
Jan 23rd 2015
40
Was it Jesus?
Jan 23rd 2015
41
RE: Where did all the matter in the universe come from?
Jan 23rd 2015
42
That image is hilarious!
Jan 23rd 2015
47
LOL
Jan 23rd 2015
52
I hate you for this.. LOL
Jan 23rd 2015
79
LOL
Jan 23rd 2015
105
i'm dying
Feb 11th 2015
209
The Zen explanation for the Universe is the most practical imo
Jan 23rd 2015
43
Why does this somehow make sense to me?
Jan 23rd 2015
50
It's the most practical explanation I have ever come across.
Jan 23rd 2015
53
      The bible says the same thing and science will one day too
Jan 23rd 2015
60
      Yeah, its allegorical.
Jan 23rd 2015
68
           Be real though-- That's who YOU say he is
Jan 23rd 2015
115
                I am sharing Buddhist perspectives.
Jan 23rd 2015
131
                     yes there are plenty of similarities
Jan 23rd 2015
135
                          Oh, I don't think he was purely Buddhist.
Jan 23rd 2015
148
      Yo my head explodes over and over and over again...
Jan 23rd 2015
73
           Same. It's fascinating.
Jan 23rd 2015
80
                You just blew my mind.
Jan 23rd 2015
92
                     Zen is definitely mind blowing.
Jan 23rd 2015
100
                          Very cool - thank you for this and I will be listening this weekend.
Jan 23rd 2015
101
                               Please do, take 3 minutes to listen to the first one now.
Jan 23rd 2015
103
                                    Just listened to the 3 minute one "Life is a Dance"
Jan 23rd 2015
110
                                         Glad you enjoyed it.
Jan 23rd 2015
117
                                              Yea this is something I see myself getting deeply entrenched in...
Jan 23rd 2015
130
                                                   Sounds good!
Jan 23rd 2015
132
yup. something=nothing
Jan 23rd 2015
74
RE: yup. something=nothing
Jan 23rd 2015
81
      RE: yup. something=nothing
Jan 23rd 2015
97
           Thanks for sharing that.
Jan 23rd 2015
122
                no problem! some links for you.
Jan 23rd 2015
152
Yeah it takes a lifetime to internalize that tho...
Jan 23rd 2015
83
      It can be done right NOW.
Jan 23rd 2015
94
           Not everyone wants enlightenment.
Jan 23rd 2015
157
                That's cool, although enlightenment is not the goal
Jan 23rd 2015
172
what was there before the big bang/matter?
Jan 23rd 2015
45
there was no "before"
Jan 23rd 2015
77
then there is no god..because how can that be
Jan 23rd 2015
87
      no space = no time
Jan 23rd 2015
98
Spacetime also started in the big bang.
Jan 24th 2015
180
5 minute explanation of scientific reason why God exists
Jan 23rd 2015
72
But you still have the same question, if you switch out the Big Bang for...
Jan 23rd 2015
76
Accoring to Neil Degrass Tyson, all the matter in the universe
Jan 23rd 2015
78
which is why a singularity has infinite gravity nm
Jan 23rd 2015
86
what was 'surrounding' that single point?
Jan 23rd 2015
90
i'm going to guess nothing.
Jan 23rd 2015
93
nothing that we can currently define
Jan 23rd 2015
99
but you take it on faith nonetheless.
Jan 23rd 2015
102
      take what on faith?
Jan 23rd 2015
104
           The singularity.
Jan 23rd 2015
108
                by nature something that dense would be hot.
Jan 23rd 2015
111
                     I still see faith.
Jan 23rd 2015
114
                          none of that is relevant
Jan 23rd 2015
134
                               Of-course it's relevant
Jan 23rd 2015
136
                                    ^ This. I mean, it's the point of the whole post.
Jan 23rd 2015
138
                                    what do you mean "this"?
Jan 23rd 2015
154
                                         Ugh, that is not what I said at all.
Jan 23rd 2015
158
                                         Reading is fundamental.
Jan 23rd 2015
161
                                    yeah. definitely going back to ignoring you.
Jan 23rd 2015
153
                                         What snark?
Jan 23rd 2015
156
There was nothing "around" it because there was no space.
Jan 24th 2015
181
      that's such an intense conundrum to me
Jan 24th 2015
182
           It's not as deep as it sounds.
Jan 24th 2015
187
                thanks
Feb 11th 2015
208
Stephen Hawking made an interesting point on this....
Jan 23rd 2015
118
Accoring to Neil Degrass Tyson, best guess all the matter in the univers...
Jan 23rd 2015
119
      Jenna
Jan 24th 2015
177
      did you just call that a guess? a guess?
Jan 24th 2015
183
I like how you pick and choose when to use science n/m
Jan 23rd 2015
107
I'm a Pro.
Jan 23rd 2015
121
from the previous universe
Jan 23rd 2015
112
Ahhhh the Multiverse. Where did it's matter come from?
Jan 23rd 2015
120
Jewish Transcendentalism is very interesting
Jan 23rd 2015
124
RE: Ahhhh the Multiverse. Where did it's matter come from?
Jan 23rd 2015
137
      But Science said it all came from a singular Big Bang.
Jan 23rd 2015
145
           RE: But Science said it call came from a singular Big Bang.
Jan 23rd 2015
147
                Do you have Science supporting that theory?
Jan 23rd 2015
151
This is another theory I like.
Jan 23rd 2015
126
if your answer is a god, why isn't your next question
Jan 23rd 2015
125
^Good question for Case,
Jan 23rd 2015
127
#53 #60
Jan 23rd 2015
133
I understand your Thought Process, but that's not my next question.
Jan 23rd 2015
139
      You dodged the question by claiming ignorance.
Jan 23rd 2015
142
      I didn't dodge the question nor did I claim ignorance.
Jan 23rd 2015
144
           But
Jan 23rd 2015
146
                RE: But, But, No
Jan 23rd 2015
149
      But if god made the universe then who made god?
Jan 23rd 2015
160
           RE: But if god made the universe then who made god?
Jan 23rd 2015
162
                Oh I have no struggle, I just believe in Midichlorians
Jan 23rd 2015
166
                how is it that god can exist and always has but matter can't?
Jan 23rd 2015
171
                     Umm. I never said matter can't do anything.
Jan 23rd 2015
174
                          it seems you're the one who lacks comprehension
Jan 24th 2015
185
                               So your just going insult the science community
Jan 24th 2015
192
re: faith in the scientific explanations
Jan 23rd 2015
140
Start reading at #102
Jan 23rd 2015
141
i think most people will concede that they dont know but
Jan 23rd 2015
159
      Unless they were Isaac Newton of course
Jan 23rd 2015
169
           unless most people are isaac newton?
Jan 24th 2015
190
a Bojangles' biscuit
Jan 23rd 2015
163
Question for you Case
Jan 23rd 2015
165
So you think God eats human food? OK.
Jan 23rd 2015
175
I love that you posted this
Jan 24th 2015
176
wow..as a melon scratcher thats a honey doodle!
Jan 24th 2015
178
RE: Where did all the matter in the universe come from?
Jan 23rd 2015
173
Energy isn't always conserved.
Jan 24th 2015
179
I appreciate you contribution.
Jan 24th 2015
184
i can't believe ya'll took this bait
Jan 24th 2015
188
One poster acting a fool doesn't have to get in the way of learning
Jan 24th 2015
189
Money, this was no bait,
Jan 24th 2015
191
As usual, I'm glad that some posters did go for the bait, more or less.
Jan 25th 2015
193
Up for no big bang
Feb 10th 2015
194
Where did I state I supported creationism?
Feb 10th 2015
195
      not about you, there were two locked threads
Feb 10th 2015
196
           I didn't see that post, settle down.
Feb 10th 2015
197
                good to know your self importance isn't limited to these boards
Feb 10th 2015
198
                     RE: not self importance, self realization
Feb 10th 2015
199
                          you should just say you don't like science...
Feb 10th 2015
200
                               I just said both are essential.
Feb 10th 2015
201
                                    then choose another word
Feb 11th 2015
202
                                         I'm happy we can talk
Feb 11th 2015
205
Consciousness
Feb 11th 2015
203
http://i.lvme.me/25hhabl.jpg
Feb 11th 2015
206

initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Brace yourself, angry text book readers are coming."
In response to Reply # 0


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "I feel the ground shaking...LOL"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Auuugggggggggh.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "I answered your question in no.12"
In response to Reply # 5


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "See post #21 "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "#27"
In response to Reply # 22


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

SooperEgo
Charter member
11332 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "Walmart"
In response to Reply # 0


          

they have everything

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "But can we get a Roll Back on Mars...LOL"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13170 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
170. "lol"
In response to Reply # 6


          

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Somnus
Member since Jun 25th 2012
3364 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
84. "*Mutley laugh*"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

________________________________________________

The ULTIMATE negation of everything.

The space between despair and orgasm is hard to fill ~ Maron

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Benji
Member since Jun 11th 2014
140 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "an omniscient white man somewhere in the sky made it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "Why he gotta be White doe?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "Why he gotta be a HE?"
In response to Reply # 7


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
20414 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
116. "why he gotta be in the sky"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
150. "Father, Lord, etc."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10673 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "*paging stravinskian or any other Ok-astrophysicists*"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>If you believe in the Big Bang Theory, as well as The First
>Law of Thermodynamics which asserts that matter or its energy
>equivalent can neither be created nor destroyed, then how did
>all of the matter in the universe originate from one single
>point of explosion?
>
>The fact is there are a lot of theories, but that's just it -
>no one knows. But I'm sure that someone on OKP has the
>answer.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "Grabs note book and recording device. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10673 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "Cmon now, this is a religion vs science post"
In response to Reply # 8
Fri Jan-23-15 10:24 AM by Cocobrotha2

          

If you really wanted to know, you'd take some college science courses.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "Money, I've studied the matter and No Scientist knows - factually"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>If you really wanted to know, you'd take some college science
>courses.

They all have plausible theories


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
5532 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "that what makes Science so great vs making it all up like religion"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "touché"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10673 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "So what's really going on here?"
In response to Reply # 18


          

>>If you really wanted to know, you'd take some college
>science
>>courses.
>
>They all have plausible theories


You know there are plausible theories that explain how all the matter in the universe could originate in a single point at the Big Bang.

Reference those plausible theories instead of playing a semantical game of "gotcha" with Okp's.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "We just having conversation. "
In response to Reply # 26


  

          



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "It's only vs if you want it to be"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

They can be part of the same thing also.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10673 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
82. "A Catholic priest/scientist first proposed the Big Bang Theory"
In response to Reply # 54


          

>They can be part of the same thing also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

Many other early scientists were priests and many contempary scientists are religious as well.

Its perfectly normal to be religious and pursue science but there is definitely some conflict between science and religion, which I think is mostly a proxy for the battle between atheists and believers. I think Case antagonizes the conflict from the believer perspective.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15785 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "RE: A Catholic priest/scientist first proposed the Big Bang Theory"
In response to Reply # 82


          

We're stuck in paradigm of false dichotomies

Fucked up ain't it?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
129. "Why can't an omnipotent creator create science"
In response to Reply # 82
Fri Jan-23-15 02:46 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

or be scientific? How do they not align? Just because an event is miraculous does not mean science is not at work in the physical manifestation of that miracle.

There are plenty of scientists who believe in intelligent design, but they are shouted down because just like anything else the field of science is corrupted by the nature of man to be self serving and more interested in getting dollars and peer acceptance than truth and understanding.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
155. "because science is a human process for discovery"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

A set of guidelines for drawing conclusions about the universe

No more, no less

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 09:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
167. "why is the human considered "separate" to nature?"
In response to Reply # 155


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15011 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:20 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "Don't know. And that's okay."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's not necessary to have the answers to everything.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
DaHeathenOne76
Member since May 11th 2003
29357 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:22 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "I'm in this line"
In response to Reply # 9


          

I am really okay with not knowing.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30358 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "This question has an answer. :)"
In response to Reply # 9


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "And none of us really have it"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
6185 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "^ ^ ^ TYBG ^ ^ ^ /post"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

.

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Binlahab
Charter member
182565 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "^^^^God."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

God is the answer, i know yall dont want it to be...but it is

we dont know...& thats ok. thats God.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
DaHeathenOne76
Member since May 11th 2003
29357 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:43 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "God requires faith. Not everyone is a person of faith. "
In response to Reply # 24


          

We could go all day but you are just sycing and we all know it. So Im killing this part of the conversation.



*****************************************
huh

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "The Big Bang model requires faith too."
In response to Reply # 29
Fri Jan-23-15 10:45 AM by initiationofplato

          

The theory states that the universe emerged out of a hot and dense state.

Where did the "hot and dense" state come from? What gave it its energy?

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
DaHeathenOne76
Member since May 11th 2003
29357 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:56 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "I said not everyone is a person of FAITH"
In response to Reply # 31
Fri Jan-23-15 10:56 AM by DaHeathenOne76

          

We dont know where it came from and THAT IS OKAY.

Science can work on an answer and religion can rock on with what its holy book says.


*shrugs*


*****************************************
huh

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "I know, I just think its ironic that science takes the big bang"
In response to Reply # 39


          

on faith.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
luminous
Charter member
11548 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "only if math = faith"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "Not at all, it's simple."
In response to Reply # 58


          

The Big Bang model suggests that the universe emerged out of a hot and dense state.

Where did this hot and dense state come from or get its energy to be hot and dense?

Scientists are basically taking the Big Bang on faith because of that dilemma.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
luminous
Charter member
11548 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "big bang theory does not say that"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Please state your reference.

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "Sure it does."
In response to Reply # 70
Fri Jan-23-15 12:21 PM by initiationofplato

          

Let's start with Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Read the page and the caption underneath the model diagram.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmogony

From Overview:

The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model of the early development of the universe. The most commonly held view is that the universe was once a gravitational singularity, which expanded extremely rapidly from its hot and dense state. However, while this expansion is well-modeled by the Big Bang theory, the origins of the singularity remains one of the unsolved problems in physics.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
ThaAnthology
Charter member
21061 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "you are quoting wiki? Really? "
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

www.anthologyfmn.com

Enter the Written World of Fahim Malik Nassar

The House of Caine (available)

Melancholoy Funk (available)

Tha Anthology (Words 2001-2003) Poetry inspired by OKP and Wash, DC
(available)

The Spook who sat by the Radio Poetry (av

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
95. "ugh. That is the correct definition of The Big Bang Model."
In response to Reply # 88


          

Would you like another website?

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
26190 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 04:18 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
207. "that's not how it works"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>The Big Bang model suggests that the universe emerged out of
>a hot and dense state.
>
>Where did this hot and dense state come from or get its energy
>to be hot and dense?
>
>Scientists are basically taking the Big Bang on faith because
>of that dilemma.

the Big Bang model describes how the universe emerged out of a hot and dense state, not where the hot and dense state came from. that doesn't mean that scientists are taking the fact that the Big Bang happened on faith (quite the opposite, actually.)

for example, Newton's law of gravitation states that objects exert a force of attraction proportional to their masses and distance.

But what causes gravity? how does it work? Newton had no idea.

does that mean scientists were only taking the existence of gravity on faith and that there was no proof that it was real for over 300 years until Einstein figured out what causes it?


<----- Long Live The King

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Binlahab
Charter member
182565 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "i disagree"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

god doesnt require anything from us, god gives as much of a damn abt us as we do some plankton in the ocean but yeah


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
DaHeathenOne76
Member since May 11th 2003
29357 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:54 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "You are being deliberately obtuse"
In response to Reply # 34


          

Not everyone believes in a God.
*****************************************
huh

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Binlahab
Charter member
182565 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "call it what you wanna call, God doesnt care abt that either."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

there comes a point where one MUST say "I dont know"

That is God

or whatever you wanna call it


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "I love when people define what god is."
In response to Reply # 44


          

Especially when they present it as truth.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "Even if God defined himself people would still deny the definition "
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "According to Zen, God does not and will never show him/herself."
In response to Reply # 59
Fri Jan-23-15 12:16 PM by initiationofplato

          

He/She doesn't need to. If god were present we would be unable to look away. God gets out of the way so that we can discover life and experience on our own, to ultimately reach a state of godhood, which is to reach enlightenment in the state of now. That is the whole point. You don't need god at all. All great spiritual teachers said the kingdom of god is within you. We don't have to look anywhere except within. *You* are the path to god.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
143. "That would make the Pope a Zen master right?"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

Since many believe him to be God and worship him as such. In fact he himself believe this. Is Zen Catholocism a thing?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
26190 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 04:33 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
204. "Phil Jackson is the Pope?"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

>Since many believe him to be God and worship him as such. In
>fact he himself believe this. Is Zen Catholocism a thing?

Who, Phil Jackson? sure.

the Pope? not so much.



<----- Long Live The King

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Binlahab
Charter member
182565 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "i think you dont know how to read."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

i think i explicitly said god is that undefinable where mans knowledge ends


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "You know this for a fact?"
In response to Reply # 61


          

That's what I mean, how can you make any factual statement about god. You are speculating like the rest of us.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Binlahab
Charter member
182565 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "that you dont know how to read? yeah im concrete on that one."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

as for the "fact" that god is unknowable, YES asshat. all religion is mans feeble attempt at understanding that which is intrinisically UN understandable. its like trying to teach a dog rocket science. he might be the smartest dog on the planet but he cant fire off a space ship


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "You have far too much angst to have a respectful conversation with."
In response to Reply # 67
Fri Jan-23-15 12:24 PM by initiationofplato

          

You do not know whether or not god is beyond our comprehension as a whole, but perhaps that is the definition you give to yourself, and that is fine. I don't accept your ideas and I find them too simple, pessimistic, and hopeless.

Based on your explanation of religion I can tell you have never studied the origins of religion and are assuming too much, and have no idea what the purpose of religion is.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
Binlahab
Charter member
182565 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
85. "There's no convo to have"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

God is unknowable. Beyond mans comprehension. That's the way it is. And asshat the rationale you talking abt is....the rationale you giving yourself. Duh. That's what we all out here doing.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "You can continue to project, and I'll continue to skate by you. :)"
In response to Reply # 85


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15011 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:21 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "And once we figure it out, then what?"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

Throughout history, there is plenty of things we couldnt explain.
With your logic, we should have attributed those things to god.

But once we finally fully understand something, what then? Still god?

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Binlahab
Charter member
182565 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "no shit hunh?"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          


>With your logic, we should have attributed those things to
>god.


if science defines it further, then God becomes what they cant explain. keep trying.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
nsac7881
Member since Jan 20th 2015
39 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. "LOL."
In response to Reply # 63


          

L O L

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "But everyone believes in a god"
In response to Reply # 38
Fri Jan-23-15 11:45 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

It can be entertainment, if can be nihilism, it can even be sports or science. Everyone is worshiping something whether they admit if or not.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
nsac7881
Member since Jan 20th 2015
39 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "jesus chirst"
In response to Reply # 57


          

pun intended

you religious MFers are so damn arrogant in your belief

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 07:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
164. "U mad bro? "
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
sweet ruffian
Member since Jul 11th 2003
8129 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
123. "yep"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>It's not necessary to have the answers to everything.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "That's not a correct application of the first law"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The first law states that the total amount of energy in a closed system cannot be created nor destroyed. Emphasis on a closed system.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
5315 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "^ DING DING DING DING DING "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
DiP
Member since Apr 28th 2006
2536 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "RE: That's not a correct application of the first law"
In response to Reply # 12
Fri Jan-23-15 02:09 PM by DiP

  

          

see reply #112

all the matter in the universe continuously condenses into singularity, then expands back out, the condenses again

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
45534 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "Scientist do have explanations though. Too much for me to grasp"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I read ish like this and marvel at how much I don't know

http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/astronomy-terms/before-big-bang1.htm



But I am not the type to just believe it just because smart people say its true. (But I feel the same way about the bible too. Some dudes wrote that and what they wrote may or may not correspond with accurately describing god and heaven)

Part of me believes in a few years or decades (or centuries) a new theory will come along and wipe away all the prior understanding and scientist will say, "yeah we were wrong about all that big bang theory stuff BUT this is the real explanation!"

All that to say, who knows (maybe not scientist, probably not bible literalist).

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "RE: Scientist have theories, not a solid answer. "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

But we are all working to understand.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
45534 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "Fair enough. In my mind they all co-exist. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "For me,Science helps to explain the mysteries of God"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
45534 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
128. "Ha! for me it's the other way around. God explains the mysteries of Sci..."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

>
>.
>.
>.
>"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

B9
Charter member
43122 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "When you try and troll science, get your science trolling right"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The First Law of Thermodynamics is a specified adaptation of the law of conservation of energy. One references the other but they are not interchangeable.



This would be like me saying "hey, Christians: if Jesus was supposedly all that, why wasn't he in the old testament?"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "Right here homie and other places"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          


http://www.allaboutscience.org/first-law-of-thermodynamics-faq.htm


In its simplest form, the First Law of Thermodynamics states that neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed. The amount of energy in the universe is constant – energy can be changed, moved, controlled, stored, or dissipated. However, this energy cannot be created from nothing or reduced to nothing. Every natural process transforms energy and moves energy, but cannot create or eliminate it.This principle forms a foundation for many of the physical sciences. - See more at: http://www.allaboutscience.org/first-law-of-thermodynamics-faq.htm#sthash.KC0PMp2C.dpuf

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "*IN A CLOSED SYSTEM*"
In response to Reply # 21


          

You are ignoring the fact that there was no closed system when the big bang occurred, therefore, the first law does not apply. I've discussed this with theoretical physicists as I had the same question.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "Ok, Let's go with the OP. Where did the matter come from?"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "Noone knows."
In response to Reply # 32


          

The Big Bang Theory is the best model we have so far, but it has not been established as fact. Everyone who claims the big bang model is true relies on the cosmic background radiation which points to expansion, however, that is not enough to conclusively prove that the big bang occurred. The big bang model suggests that the universe emerged out of a hot and dense state but noone can determine how this hot and dense state came into being.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
GNT1986
Member since Dec 09th 2011
95 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "RE: Noone knows."
In response to Reply # 37


          

>conclusively prove that the big bang occurred. The big bang
>model suggests that the universe emerged out of a hot and
>dense state but noone can determine how this hot and dense
>state came into being.

If this is the way a scientist claiming intelligent design says that God is full of hot air, well, I'm chuckling.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:48 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
33. "Jesus?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Triptych
Charter member
29846 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IMClick to send message via ICQ
36. "http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/234/739/fa5.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/234/739/fa5.jpg

____________________________

http://twitter.com/irefox
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
13957 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "lol"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
524 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 09:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
168. "RE: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/234/739/fa5.jpg"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

hahaha

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 06:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
186. "LOFL"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:56 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
40. "I bet it was Jesus."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:56 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
41. "Was it Jesus?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:59 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. "RE: Where did all the matter in the universe come from? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110107113228/uncyclopedia/images/5/54/Jesus_Big_Bang.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "That image is hilarious!"
In response to Reply # 42


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
13957 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "I hate you for this.. LOL"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
6185 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

.

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Robert
Charter member
3838 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 05:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
209. "i'm dying"
In response to Reply # 42


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "The Zen explanation for the Universe is the most practical imo"
In response to Reply # 0


          

A Zen master might say to you that you cannot have the foreground without the background. There cannot be a space without something occupying that space. There cannot be life without death, and there cannot be death without life. In the same breath, there cannot be SOMETHING without NOTHING. They are inseparable. The Ying and Yang is a symbol for existence, and its two spirals represent the two great winds of creation: Something and Nothing. You cannot pry them apart and you cannot isolate one without taking the other into account, therefore, the universe has always existed, as existence cannot occur without non-existence and vice versa.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
45534 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "Why does this somehow make sense to me?"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "It's the most practical explanation I have ever come across."
In response to Reply # 50
Fri Jan-23-15 11:36 AM by initiationofplato

          

There was no beginning, and there will never be an end. The universe is eternal and infinite. Conceptually, Nothing cannot exist without Something to identify Nothing as truly "Nothing". You need the contrast, you need the foreground and background. Nothing is also limitless and has no boundaries, and that is why NOTHING is "large" enough to contain EVERYTHING. They exist within each-other and the result is existence in the present moment.

The purpose of Zen Buddhism is to reach a state of enlightenment in the present moment. We invest so much time into the past and future without realizing those are insoluble ideas. The future does not exist, and we can never go back into the past. So why place so much of our time and energy into either. You have to be present in the moment, and focus only on the NOW, as that is the only moment you will ever be able to access. The moment of now in between the Past and the Future, is akin to the universe existing between beginning and end. They merge and coalesce into one thing that cannot be separated into parts.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "The bible says the same thing and science will one day too "
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

All matter is God or a part of God and God is eternal == the matter in the universes has always been and there can not be something without nothing. Sounds like the old Alpha and Omega beginning and end to me. Just minus the part about being held accountable to said force.

The two concepts do not have to be at odds. Some people just want them that way

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "Yeah, its allegorical."
In response to Reply # 60
Fri Jan-23-15 12:20 PM by initiationofplato

          

>All matter is God or a part of God and God is eternal == the
>matter in the universes has always been and there can not be
>something without nothing. Sounds like the old Alpha and Omega
>beginning and end to me. Just minus the part about being held
>accountable to said force.
>
>The two concepts do not have to be at odds. Some people just
>want them that way

The problem is when people take it literally and apply human personality to god. ie. Jesus is God. What Jesus was in fact saying is that the kingdom of god or knowledge of self exists within you. He started at the same point we all do, and he went on a quest to find enlightenment which led him to universal truth's. These universal truth's state that we are all part of "god", and that we are in fact "god" as we are existing in a state of being, or the eternal NOW. Jesus said "I AM" to emphasize this. He was not saying "I AM GOD" as god being separate from us, or him being separate from us. He was saying, "I AM (Present, Being, Existence, and those things are God.)"

Jesus was a philosopher and by all account was sharing a lot of Eastern philosophy. Essentially, if you find knowledge of self in the present reality, you find god. That is what Jesus accomplished, which was exactly what Buddha accomplished.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
115. "Be real though-- That's who YOU say he is"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

and that's all fine and good because it's a question he asked then and it's a question that's still fair to ask today.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
131. "I am sharing Buddhist perspectives."
In response to Reply # 115


          

>and that's all fine and good because it's a question he asked
>then and it's a question that's still fair to ask today.

If you study the words of Jesus Christ, and study the words of Buddah, you find the same ideas.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
135. "yes there are plenty of similarities "
In response to Reply # 131
Fri Jan-23-15 02:56 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

but there are plenty of differences also. That's all I'm saying.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
148. "Oh, I don't think he was purely Buddhist."
In response to Reply # 135


          

I think he demonstrated a lot of Egyptian mysticism as well.

Actually, you mentioned the Dead Sea Scrolls before. Have you heard of John Allegro? He was the only agnostic scholar out of a completely Catholic group of scholars that were assigned to study the scrolls, and he wrote a book called The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross. In short, he claimed that the scrolls contained information about Jesus consuming psilocybin, from which he drew a lot of mystical teachings from. Even today, in the Vatican you will find depictions of Jesus and the mushroom.

http://www.truthsayer.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Amanita-mushroom-and-Jesus.png

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BtiMw0-akAM/hqdefault.jpg

Have you ever experienced psilocybin?


~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20230 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
73. "Yo my head explodes over and over and over again..."
In response to Reply # 53


          

everytime I think about this shit.

I am with you on this theory, I mean it's the only one that can actually make sense.

But holy hell does my head hurt thinking about this shit. I am not a man of faith, I am a realist through and through and I need answers and explanations for everything, I take no leaps of faith. So this entire "universe" conversation and how the world(s) came to be drives me insane and makes me uncomfortable. It's infinitely frustrating for me. I wish it weren't.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "Same. It's fascinating."
In response to Reply # 73


          

>I am with you on this theory, I mean it's the only one that
>can actually make sense.

For me as well.

>
>But holy hell does my head hurt thinking about this shit. I am
>not a man of faith, I am a realist through and through and I
>need answers and explanations for everything, I take no leaps
>of faith. So this entire "universe" conversation and how the
>world(s) came to be drives me insane and makes me
>uncomfortable. It's infinitely frustrating for me. I wish it
>weren't.

I think it's just part of the fun. I think about it daily and sometimes I am left with a dumbfounded expression/sensation and at times filled with pure exhilaration of experiencing something profound and yet simple enough for a child to understand.

Sometimes we are awake, and sometimes we are asleep. When we are asleep, a lot of time passes that we have no perception or experience of. When you fall asleep, you wake up almost immediately, and all that time passed without you needing to count the minutes. It's like it didn't even happen. So, is time actually real if you do not have any perception of it while asleep? The Zen idea of life and death is similar, when you die, you fall asleep, and a lot of time passes, and finally, you wake up again, which is to be born again. You have no perception or experience of the time you are dead just as you have no perception or experience of when you are asleep.

If you pay attention everything in the universe works in ON and OFF. A sine wave cannot be a wave without a peak or the trough. If you walk up a mountain, are you walking up the mountain or is the mountain lifting you? When you are driving in a car, is the car pushing you forward, or pulling you? The answer is that both are occurring at the same time. You cannot be awake without sleep. You cannot be alive without death. Being and Not Being, Existence, and Non-Existence, Beginning and End, these are realities which are inseparable and coalesce to create a single state of NOW. The state you are in right now. You are both dead and alive, both asleep and awake at the same time, without time.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20230 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
92. "You just blew my mind."
In response to Reply # 80


          

Haha.

In all seriousness though I think about it daily too...and this on/off thing you refer to is pretty cool, and obviously true.

I really want to see a monk I think. A friend of mine was meditating with a monk for a few months and said it was truly life changing and enlightening. Put a lot of things in perspective for her.

I don't tend to go through a ton of peaks and valleys as far as stress and mood swings but I, like everyone else, have my moments and could certainly benefit from some kind of perspective since I do think about my/our place in the universe very often.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
100. "Zen is definitely mind blowing."
In response to Reply # 92
Fri Jan-23-15 01:40 PM by initiationofplato

          

Especially when it starts hitting you with the sensation of reality.

I have something for you to listen to that will interest you that has the same potency as a monk would provide for you. Alan Watts is a well traveled Zen Buddhist who used to teach Zen to people all over the world before he died.

First, listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29atSZKbmS4

It's short but sweet. Only 3 minutes but very powerful.

Then listen to this as it speaks about what we have been discussing through a Zen point of view.

What is Reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um6SX3ZgJRs

Another quick and fun one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcPWU59Luoc

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20230 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
101. "Very cool - thank you for this and I will be listening this weekend."
In response to Reply # 100


          

I'll report back once I do.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
103. "Please do, take 3 minutes to listen to the first one now. "
In response to Reply # 101
Fri Jan-23-15 01:37 PM by initiationofplato

          

I feel like it will resonate well with you and I'd love to hear your thoughts after. Feel free to inbox me anytime.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20230 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
110. "Just listened to the 3 minute one "Life is a Dance""
In response to Reply # 103


          

That was really profound. What's interesting is that what Watts said about grade school leading to high school, leading to college, so on and so forth...until you look back and realize, shit, I've been waiting for this "end" that's never coming and I've missed a lot....that's been something I've thought about a lot in my post-college life. Up til that point, everything had an end. Middle school, high school, college, so I knew what I was working towards. Since I started my career I've often thought, well shit, there really is no end now. It's just --- life. And thankfully I came to that realization early because when it comes to making decisions on whether or not to, for example (and probably the biggest one in my life) travel or spend money on a once in a lifetime event I know I'll enjoy, I more often than not take the financial hit and take part in the opportunity. But there are definitely times, fairly often, where I almost get frustrated with the idea that there is no tidy end to everything. It's wild to think about.

Anyway I know that wasn't the whole purpose of that piece but I just found it interesting that his speech there kind of mirrored a minor frustration/thought I've had often throughout my post college life.

I'm really excited to check out the other link you posted and more of his words. He sounds like someone I could learn an awful lot from.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "Glad you enjoyed it."
In response to Reply # 110


          

>I'm really excited to check out the other link you posted and
>more of his words. He sounds like someone I could learn an
>awful lot from.

I can safely say that what I learned from him free'd me from years of self torture and mental/emotional deprivation. You are in for many "oh snap" moments. I typically look for the longer ones as the short ones are all excerpts from those anyway. Enjoy!

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20230 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
130. "Yea this is something I see myself getting deeply entrenched in..."
In response to Reply # 117


          

over the coming weeks/months. Thanks for the recommendation. I'm sure I'll want to discuss further so I'll either report back here or inbox you to chat further.

Thanks again

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
132. "Sounds good!"
In response to Reply # 130


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2901 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "yup. something=nothing"
In response to Reply # 43


          

nobody can focus on the now. the so called now is all there is and all there ever will be. THIS is all there is! you are already in it! woohoo!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "RE: yup. something=nothing"
In response to Reply # 74
Fri Jan-23-15 01:04 PM by initiationofplato

          

>nobody can focus on the now. the so called now is all there
>is and all there ever will be. THIS is all there is! you are
>already in it! woohoo!

You can use focus to enter a state of now, but yes, all there is and all there ever will be is in fact NOW. WOOHOO is right! lol

If people only realized how much power the present moment holds, they would free themselves from stress and self destruction.

Example.

When you are worried about your health in the future. You invest a ton of negative energy worrying about something that does not exist yet and ironically, this is more destructive to your health than the possibility of your health deteriorating.

Some people spend a lot of time feeling guilty over the past. You can never reach the past, it is gone, it is never to return, and it is insoluble. The solution is simple, are the things you feel guilty over happening right now? Of course not! So why invest so much energy into guilt and pain over them right now when you cannot go back?

Identifying the present moment free's you from the future and past and the worry and stress completely dissipates and suddenly you find yourself filled with joy, for simply being.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2901 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
97. "RE: yup. something=nothing"
In response to Reply # 81


          

well, everyone is living in the "now" (cos it's all there is) but most believe they are a person who does things and chooses to do one thing and not the other. they believe there is someone inside the body or behind the eyes. this causes a duality that takes you away from what is (the now).

my man tony parsons describes this so well. he calls it the open secret.
---
Within most religious and spiritual doctrine there is another hidden message which is beyond belief, process, path and the teaching of personal endeavour. It is a revelation out of which can arise a radically different perception of reality. The Open Secret explores the essence of various traditional and contemporary practices and attempts to expose the myths that surround the mystery to which they aspire.

It also reveals the way in which seeking for fulfilment can only reinforce the sense of continuously reaching out for something that has never been lost.

The dynamic of this communication is essentially energetic, and this can nullify the mind's need for ideas and answers and dissipate the contracted sense of the self and its fear of unconditional freedom.

The Open Secret is not new . . . and also it is. Its fundamental essence and content is to be found in the apparent history of seeking originating in Advaita Vedanta, Non-dualism, a particular Zen Buddhism and Christian mysticism. These subjects are explored in more liberally-minded schools and are certainly part of the University curriculum. This message also embraces recent discoveries of quantum physicists, neuroscientists and biologists.

Knowing and Unknowing

The story of Adam and Eve is an allegory describing the loss of "paradise" through the arising of self-knowing. So, it seems, there is wholeness (paradise) and within that boundless, free-floating, causeless energy, something appears which experiences itself as being separate from that wholeness (paradise).

Here is a metaphor pointing to what seems like "the story" of self-consciousness, out of which is apparently born the knowing and experience of free will, choice, time and space, purpose and direction.

As "the story" unfolds, so the self learns to know "the world out there" and attempts to negotiate the best deal possible for itself . . . it apparently takes action to find pleasure and avoid pain. The greater the knowledge the more effective the action, the results and the apparent sense of personal control . . . or so it seems.

All of these efforts bring varying results, and so the individual comes to know fluctuating states of gratification and disappointment. However, it can be noticed that there seems to be an underlying sense of dissatisfaction which drives the self to find a deeper meaning.

Because the apparent self can only exist through its own knowing, its search for a deeper meaning will be limited to that which it can know and experience for itself. Within these limitations there are a multitude of doctrines, therapies, ideologies, spiritual teachings and belief systems that the seeker can come to know. There can also be the knowing and experiencing of states of silence, stillness, bliss, awareness and detachment, all of which seem to come and go like night and day.

All of these teachings, recommendations and prescriptions are attempting to provide the seeker with answers to that which is unknowable, and ways to find that which has never been lost.

So the self is the separate seeker that pursues everything that it thinks it can know and do, excepting the absence of itself. That absence is the emptiness which is unknowable, but paradoxically is also the very fullness, the wholeness (paradise) that is longed for.

Should the apparent seeker meet with a perception which reveals in great depth the real nature of separation and also exposes, without compromise, the sublime futility of seeking, there can be a collapse of the construct of the separate self. That totally impersonal message carries with it a boundless energy into which the seemingly contracted energy of self unfolds. A resonance can arise which is beyond self awareness . . . something ineffable can be sensed . . . a fragrance and an opening to the wonder of unknowing can emerge.

Suddenly, there seems to be a shift and an impersonal realisation that this is already wholeness. The boundless, naked, innocent, free-floating and wonderful simplicity of beingness is already all there is . . . it is extraordinary in its ordinariness and yet it cannot be described.
---

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
122. "Thanks for sharing that."
In response to Reply # 97


          

It definitely touches on the reality I have begun to experience. This part really resonates with me:

"It also reveals the way in which seeking for fulfilment can only reinforce the sense of continuously reaching out for something that has never been lost."

Exactly!!

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2901 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
152. "no problem! some links for you."
In response to Reply # 122


          

http://youtu.be/pgkHGEBo9a4
http://youtu.be/yAE6QxdMess

there are many persons communicating this around the world. it's usually called non-duality but it's not an organization or anything. they're all doing their thing and using similar language but not exactly in the same way.
here are some names:

tony parsons
francis lucille
rupert spira
lisa cairns
tim freke
unmani
jeff frost

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Triptych
Charter member
29846 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IMClick to send message via ICQ
83. "Yeah it takes a lifetime to internalize that tho..."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

.

____________________________

http://twitter.com/irefox
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
94. "It can be done right NOW."
In response to Reply # 83
Fri Jan-23-15 01:44 PM by initiationofplato

          

There is a practical way to do it. Drop the past and the future and focus on the present moment.

Try to do that for a week and see how you feel. Don't spend a single minute contemplating your past, or feeling one way or another about it, and don't invest a single moment envisioning yourself in the future. It never turns out the way you expect anyway, sometimes its worse, and sometimes its better. Focus solely on what you are doing and experiencing in the present moment. Literally, shed the past and future as if they were old clothing.

Ask yourself questions to identify with the now. What am I doing right now? What am I feeling right now? What is the task at hand right now? What am I *being* right now? If you practice this you will catch yourself thinking about the past or the future, and that is when you will start to practically identify which of your thoughts are rooted in NOW and REALITY and which are locked in fiction.

If you practice now, you will soon realize that you are filled with more peace of mind than you thought you had access to. We rob ourselves of peace of mind by focusing on things which are insoluble and unattainable. Those things are the past, and the future. The past makes us feel guilt and pain for things we cannot change, and the future fills us with fear through the possibility that we will not attain the future we imagined for our selves. Free yourselves from those things and you will find something inside you, in NOW, that has more energy and power than you ever thought possible.

Another way to do it is with meditation. Most people struggle with meditation because they say: "I cannot turn my mind off and stop thinking."

Of course you can't, that is the purpose of the mind. To produce thought. That is not the true definition of meditation.

The way to meditate is as follows. Let any thought come into your mind, let the chatter in your mind do as it pleases, but listen to that chatter, as you listen to the sound of birds chirping outside of your window when you are occupied with something else. That is zen. You let it happen without trying to hold on to it, or without trying to let it go. You do both at the same time.

Everyone can already meditate. It is the same as working in an office and hearing the noise in the office background but not listening to it. That is what you do with your mind and it's thoughts to meditate. Finally, do not set a purpose for meditation, simply do it, and see what happens.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Triptych
Charter member
29846 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IMClick to send message via ICQ
157. "Not everyone wants enlightenment."
In response to Reply # 94
Fri Jan-23-15 04:30 PM by Triptych

  

          

Is more to my point.

Also that while you've given good advice IMO, the entire field of meditation is so mysterious, ancient, and complex, that even after internalizing the lessons you outline, one still continuously finds oneself at a beginning point. True mastery of these concepts is almost impossible. Separating reality from fiction is great advice, but know that that separation is incredibly subtle sometimes.

____________________________

http://twitter.com/irefox
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
172. "That's cool, although enlightenment is not the goal"
In response to Reply # 157
Fri Jan-23-15 11:22 PM by initiationofplato

          

Enlightenment cannot be attained really, it has to be experienced, and it is symptomatic of knowing your self in the present reality.

>Is more to my point.
>
>Also that while you've given good advice IMO, the entire field
>of meditation is so mysterious, ancient, and complex, that
>even after internalizing the lessons you outline, one still
>continuously finds oneself at a beginning point.


It's a well developed and outlined practice. As an example, the Tibetan Book of the Dead was written based on the knowledge one experienced through meditation, which is a guide on navigating the spiritual realm after you die in order to escape the cycle of rebirth. I think meditation in the west is as you said, "mysterious". In the east it is a real means to a very specific reality.

True mastery
>of these concepts is almost impossible. Separating reality
>from fiction is great advice, but know that that separation is
>incredibly subtle sometimes.

It is not impossible. It requires focus and self awareness, and finally the ability to detach. It is difficult for us here because we are exposed to a vast variety of distractions which become totally consuming. We we are very good at absorbing ourselves in something. Experiencing enlightenment I think feels like an avalanche, practicing small acts, or the lack of certain thoughts will bring you closer to your true self. The true self emerges more and more on its own as you close the door to the past or future. It picks up momentum on its own because ultimately, you learn to let go.

I like what you said about the subtlety of separation. I know exactly of what you are referring to as it happens to me, but, I can honestly say the difference overall in my life has changed pretty dramatically and it came with little to no effort. As anything it takes a bit of practice. Zen masters say that some people are able to meditate quickly and effectively, and are like a Stallion, but there are others who are like donkey's, they struggle, and are slow for a long time, but if they continue on this path, they eventually surpass the stallion. I think it would be helpful for society to inject a healthy level of spirituality into the mechanized world, to en-soul it with unifying spiritual ideas as opposed to differences and argument. The world is truly plagued by a kind of immaturity I think.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rdhull
Charter member
32037 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:07 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "what was there before the big bang/matter?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
77. "there was no "before""
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
rdhull
Charter member
32037 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "then there is no god..because how can that be"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
98. "no space = no time"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12272 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 04:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
180. "Spacetime also started in the big bang."
In response to Reply # 45


          


So asking what happened before the big bang is like asking how to get three miles south of the south pole. Once you get to the south pole, all directions are north, and once you get to the big bang, all directions in time are the future.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Laz aka Black Native
Member since Mar 18th 2009
5462 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "5 minute explanation of scientific reason why God exists"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVm8RokoBA

Furious Styles: https://blacknative.bandcamp.com/album/furious-styles

Black Confederate on iTunes:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/black-confederate-single/id940282326

Video to Black Confederate: http://youtu.be/jbpAQ4qzkqY

PSN: WakandanKing
Follow

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
6491 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "But you still have the same question, if you switch out the Big Bang for..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-23-15 12:54 PM by stylez dainty

  

          

...God

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Kama7
Member since Mar 11th 2005
1448 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
78. "Accoring to Neil Degrass Tyson, all the matter in the universe"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

was always there is was just compressed into a super dense ball of particles. So dense it could all fit in a single point.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
86. "which is why a singularity has infinite gravity nm"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
rdhull
Charter member
32037 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:13 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "what was 'surrounding' that single point?"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>was always there is was just compressed into a super dense
>ball of particles. So dense it could all fit in a single
>point.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
IkeMoses
Charter member
70850 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "i'm going to guess nothing."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
99. "nothing that we can currently define"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "but you take it on faith nonetheless."
In response to Reply # 99


          

:)

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
104. "take what on faith?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

There is a difference between faith and accepting the most well supported idea

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
108. "The singularity."
In response to Reply # 104
Fri Jan-23-15 01:35 PM by initiationofplato

          

First of all, I respect you. You are human and that is a remarkable thing. I do not want to insult you or be insulted by you, so if you feel you know something I don't, please teach me, don't insult me.

This is where I see faith in the singularity.


*The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model of the early development of the universe. The most commonly held view is that the universe was once a gravitational singularity, which expanded extremely rapidly from its hot and dense state. However, while this expansion is well-modeled by the Big Bang theory, the origins of the singularity remains one of the unsolved problems in physics.*

Where did this hot and dense state come from? Noone can answer this question.

This is where faith comes in. It translates like this to me:

"The origins of the singularity remains one of the unsolved problems in physics, but I'll take it on faith that it was there. I can't tell you how, but that is what I choose to believe."

I think that's somewhat ironic.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
111. "by nature something that dense would be hot."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

Thats not faith, incredible heat is a mathematical necessity for something to be that dense

And given that the universe is provably expanding (all cosmologic bodies exhibit red shift) its also logical to trace that back to the beginning of expansion. The force required to keep everything expanding is massive and mathematically fits with the expansion of an infinitely dense singularity.

Also, that level of energy left a signature in the form of cosmic background radiation.

No real need for faith. Just an acceptance of the preponderance of evidence.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
114. "I still see faith."
In response to Reply # 111
Fri Jan-23-15 02:11 PM by initiationofplato

          

>Thats not faith, incredible heat is a mathematical necessity
>for something to be that dense

Where did that density come from? What put it there? Or, what established the mathematical laws for it to adhere to?

That is where I see faith. You cannot answer those questions but the theory is built on that blind gap. Everything you wrote is what follows after the building blocks have already been provided for you.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
134. "none of that is relevant"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

>>Thats not faith, incredible heat is a mathematical
>necessity
>>for something to be that dense

>Where did that density come from? What put it there? Or, what
>established the mathematical laws for it to adhere to?

None of that matters. I dont take a side on any of that. The mathematical laws that describe our universe are here and they work. "Why" isnt a concern for mw.

>That is where I see faith. You cannot answer those questions
>but the theory is built on that blind gap. Everything you
>wrote is what follows after the building blocks have already
>been provided for you.

Your question doesnt even make sense. "Where did that density come from?"? Its a ratio of mass to volume. I dont need to to know where the mass came from, I can see it in the sky. And i know the volume of the universe is expanding so its logic that puts initial volume at zero.

Mass that we can see in the sky, divided by our logical zero, gives us infintite density.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
136. "Of-course it's relevant"
In response to Reply # 134


          

If you are trying to determine the beginning of the universe, you can't just pick a convenient point to start and work from there. You have to take everything into consideration.

>>>Thats not faith, incredible heat is a mathematical
>>necessity
>>>for something to be that dense
>
>>Where did that density come from? What put it there? Or,
>what
>>established the mathematical laws for it to adhere to?
>
>None of that matters. I dont take a side on any of that. The
>mathematical laws that describe our universe are here and they
>work. "Why" isnt a concern for mw.
>

That right there is faith.

>>That is where I see faith. You cannot answer those questions
>>but the theory is built on that blind gap. Everything you
>>wrote is what follows after the building blocks have already
>>been provided for you.
>
>Your question doesnt even make sense. "Where did that
>density come from?"? Its a ratio of mass to volume. I dont
>need to to know where the mass came from, I can see it in the
>sky. And i know the volume of the universe is expanding so its
>logic that puts initial volume at zero.
>
>Mass that we can see in the sky, divided by our logical zero,
>gives us infintite density.

I specifically corrected myself by saying: "Or, what established the mathematical laws for it to adhere to?"

You said it is irrelevant. You can fight it all you want, but The Big Bang Model is built with 1 part Faith. Shrug.

The irony!

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20230 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
138. "^ This. I mean, it's the point of the whole post."
In response to Reply # 136
Fri Jan-23-15 03:08 PM by Brew

          

Be definition it cannot be irrelevant.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
154. "what do you mean "this"?"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

He didnt make a point to agree OR disagree with.

He said that because he doeant know the answers to some things, them everybody must be operating on faith.

No.

There is no lack of evidence for physics. The signs that physics works are literally all around you at all times.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
158. "Ugh, that is not what I said at all."
In response to Reply # 154
Fri Jan-23-15 04:42 PM by initiationofplato

          

You totally misrepresented what I said. Either you did it on purpose or you are the one who is dense.

Once again, you are starting your argument AFTER the building blocks were given to you.

You said that the origin of the mathematical laws are irrelevant. How can someone who is discussing the origin of the universe, pick a point after the building blocks have been provided for him/her and start there?

"The mathematical laws that describe our universe are here and they work. "Why" isnt a concern for mw."

That is not the scientific method and you are dodging my point.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20230 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 06:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
161. "Reading is fundamental."
In response to Reply # 154


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32472 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
153. "yeah. definitely going back to ignoring you."
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

Whether intentional or not...you are dense. And your snark after your whole plea for mutual validation is cute too.

The math works because it works. I dont need to know why it works to know that it does. Airplanes fly because the math works. Your microwave works because the math works. We land shit on comets because the math works.

Faith is belief despite absence of evidence. There is evidence everywhere that the math WORKS.

That is the opposite of faith. Whether or not it works, and how it came to be that way are 2 totally different questions.

Just because you either cant or dont want to grasp that isnt anyones problem but yours.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
156. "What snark?"
In response to Reply # 153
Fri Jan-23-15 04:41 PM by initiationofplato

          

Dude, you have a massive chip on your shoulder and are overly sensitive/defensive.

>
>Faith is belief despite absence of evidence. There is
>evidence everywhere that the math WORKS.

I am not debating or specifically focusing on the math. I'll try to be more succinct:

The Big Bang Model requires for you to have (faith and belief) in the idea of a singularity, governed by mathematical laws which we have no origins to attribute them to, as the precursor to the birth of our universe. Hope that's more clear.

So far science has only found some evidence for the *expansion* of the universe, not for the singularity whose origin is unknown or unproven.

Where did the compressed and dense matter come from?

>The math works because it works. I dont need to know why it
>works to know that it does.

^ You just said: "God works in mysterious ways."

Haha!

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12272 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 04:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
181. "There was nothing "around" it because there was no space."
In response to Reply # 90


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 06:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
182. "that's such an intense conundrum to me"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

i mean to think about

i don't care either way, what or "who" started it.

my atheism has not wavered in 10+ years

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12272 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 07:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
187. "It's not as deep as it sounds."
In response to Reply # 182


          


Imagine a soap bubble. Imagine the two-dimensional space on the surface of that soap bubble. Now imagine the soap bubble is leaky, and the air is escaping from it, making it get smaller. Eventually that two-dimensional space will have zero size, and anything that lives on it can only do so if it also has zero size. Of course, the soap bubbles in our everyday experience live within a bigger, three-dimensional space, and any little bugs that might live on them could just jump off. The difference with the three-dimensional space of our universe is, as far as the data has told us do far, there isn't any four-dimensional space in which our three-dimensional space lives. Still, the three-dimensional space of our universe can in principle curl up to have zero size.

Another point, though: it isn't exactly true that the big bang singularity had zero size. I'm not saying it had nonzero size. The real issue is that people are naively led to the wrong question. The singularity is a feature in our universe where the very concept of geometry breaks down. You can't really say what the "size" is of something that doesn't have any geometry at all. A better question is: what does the universe look like as one traces back in time toward the singularity. The answer to that question is surprisingly interesting, but also surprisingly technical.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 04:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
208. "thanks"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
21648 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
118. "Stephen Hawking made an interesting point on this...."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

I don't pretend to understand physics or science at this level but it's always fascinated me. I try to keep up with stuff that I read or hear but at some point, it all escapes me. So forgive me if I butcher this concept.

Anyway...Hawking suggested that if all of the matter was condensed into that singularity, it would also keep time from flowing (the same way black holes affect time & space). So you'd have all the matter in the universe condensed into one point with no passage or movement of time. Until that singularity exploded & matter started spreading out and time began to move.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
119. "Accoring to Neil Degrass Tyson, best guess all the matter in the univers..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>was always there is was just compressed into a super dense
>ball of particles. So dense it could all fit in a single
>point.


That's a great guess. were did the matter come from?


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Kama7
Member since Mar 11th 2005
1448 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 09:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
177. "Jenna"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 06:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
183. "did you just call that a guess? a guess?"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

wow you are very conceited and simultaneously dishonest human.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
56573 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:34 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
107. "I like how you pick and choose when to use science n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "I'm a Pro. "
In response to Reply # 107


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DiP
Member since Apr 28th 2006
2536 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
112. "from the previous universe"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

which condensed into a singularity.

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
120. "Ahhhh the Multiverse. Where did it's matter come from?"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
124. "Jewish Transcendentalism is very interesting"
In response to Reply # 120


          

It somewhat touches on what we are discussing.

Orthodox Jews do not believe in "God" like Christians or Muslims do. Jews believe in the TORA, which is the LAW.

Think of it in the following way. A bird cannot be a bird without the laws of aerodynamics. One can say that a bird has been shaped by those laws in order to give it the ability to create lift with its body.

Jews believe in the law which created God, or the laws which allowed God to be shaped and identified as God. It is the "Mother Principle". Thus, according to Jewish Transcendentalism, God's mother are the laws which allow god to be god and that's what they put their faith into. I think that's pretty cool.

Many ancient and current spiritual believes credit the universe to a living female energy, and in fact, all human beings start as female and some mutate into males. Even you.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
DiP
Member since Apr 28th 2006
2536 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
137. "RE: Ahhhh the Multiverse. Where did it's matter come from?"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

nah, it's from a previous incarnation of the universe. its the same matter, which is in a constant state of expansion and contraction.

it didn't come from anywhere, it just is and always will be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bounce

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
145. "But Science said it all came from a singular Big Bang. "
In response to Reply # 137
Fri Jan-23-15 04:05 PM by Case_One

  

          

Do you disagree?


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
DiP
Member since Apr 28th 2006
2536 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
147. "RE: But Science said it call came from a singular Big Bang. "
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

the universe in its current state came from the "big bang" which is the point at which the singularity formed by the previous contraction of all the matter in the universe started to expand back out. the universe as it exists today is expanding but at some point will stop expanding and begin contracting again, eventually returning to a singularity. Then another "big bang" will occur and the matter will begin expanding out again, and so on forever.

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
151. "Do you have Science supporting that theory? "
In response to Reply # 147


  

          


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
126. "This is another theory I like."
In response to Reply # 112


          

It is akin to the Zen understanding of Life and Death. The universe falls asleep (contracts), and wakes up (expands).

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

sweet ruffian
Member since Jul 11th 2003
8129 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
125. "if your answer is a god, why isn't your next question"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

well, where did the god come from?

if you must answer the "where did we everything come from/begin" question why is GOD an acceptable end of that thought process?





  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
127. "^Good question for Case,"
In response to Reply # 125


          

I'm starting to get the sense that Case is firmly rooted in the idea that god is the creator, but this is definitely a good question for him to tackle.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 02:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
133. "#53 #60"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

always has been always will be

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
139. "I understand your Thought Process, but that's not my next question."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

>well, where did the god come from?
>

My next question would be how was Matter Created. Knowing the were begs the next question as to how. I know were Oil comes from, but by next question would be how was it made. I guess it's kind of the same logic path. Maybe not. I'm hungry.




>if you must answer the "where did we everything come
>from/begin" question why is GOD an acceptable end of that
>thought process?
>



Anyway, for me, based on my encounters, experience, relationship and knowledge level with God, I that He is the author and architect of the entire universe. I believe that as physical humans (in this form) we are incapable of understanding the creative mind and full existence of God - not that we wont at some point - in the Spiritual realm. But as for now, we are trapped by this physical realm and its boundaries of time, energy, etc.

I know it sounds all Spooky, but, I believe that God is and will always be.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
142. "You dodged the question by claiming ignorance."
In response to Reply # 139


          

I do not believe we live in a universe or would be created by a creator that would leave us with a vacancy for understanding that very creation or him/her the creator.

How rude that would be!

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
144. "I didn't dodge the question nor did I claim ignorance."
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

>I do not believe we live in a universe or would be created by
>a creator that would leave us with a vacancy for understanding
>that very creation or him/her the creator.
>
>How rude that would be!

Well God didn't leave us with a vacancy for understanding about creation or Himself. He explained it very well to me and Billions of others. Now are there mysteries yet to be revealed, absolutely. But all things will be answered in time.

But I see you. Wink.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
146. "But"
In response to Reply # 144


          

" I believe that as physical humans (in this form) we are incapable of understanding the creative mind and full existence of God - not that we wont at some point - in the Spiritual realm."

That is to claim ignorance.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
149. "RE: But, But, No"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

>" I believe that as physical humans (in this form) we are
>incapable of understanding the creative mind and full
>existence of God - not that we wont at some point - in the
>Spiritual realm."
>
>That is to claim ignorance.


No, I said that we will at some point too. Not knowing completely is not ignorance. We are always learning more about God as he reveals more of Himself to us based on our relationship with Him. The key is relationship which leads to revelation. And one day our relationship with go beyond this physical realm.

That's not ignorance, that's expectation and faith. No Ignorance.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
4797 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 05:35 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
160. "But if god made the universe then who made god?"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

I can't just jive with he's everything and has always been. That's a cop out, it's the fear of saying "I don't know." that gets you everytime. It's ok to say I don't know, if god does exist I'm sure he ain't going to smite you and send you to hell for that.

Maybe, I'm sure you got a scripture somewhere to say he will, but whatevs.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 06:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
162. "RE: But if god made the universe then who made god?"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

>I can't just jive with he's everything and has always been.
>That's a cop out, it's the fear of saying "I don't know." that
>gets you everytime. It's ok to say I don't know, if god does
>exist I'm sure he ain't going to smite you and send you to
>hell for that.
>
>Maybe, I'm sure you got a scripture somewhere to say he will,
>but whatevs.

I can understand your struggle, its just not my struggle. The fact is that God is and he will always be before time and after time and outside of time God has always existed.
.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
4797 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 08:59 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
166. "Oh I have no struggle, I just believe in Midichlorians"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

My point is it's not fair to question science on the creation of the Big Bang and not question where god comes from.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Playa_Politician
Member since Jul 29th 2006
5492 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:04 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
171. "how is it that god can exist and always has but matter can't?"
In response to Reply # 162
Fri Jan-23-15 11:06 PM by Playa_Politician

  

          

with god you said above we're incapable of understanding, yet you believe it's god who's always been here. but you won't/don't believe matter has always existed.

maybe you're just incapable of understanding matter and your attributing it something you think you do understand (god).

I don't believe there ever was a "nothing", i think matter and energy has always been here.

--sig--
n/a

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
174. "Umm. I never said matter can't do anything. "
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

I swear, y'all love making up talking points .. Crazy!


>with god you said above we're incapable of understanding, yet
>you believe it's god who's always been here. but you
>won't/don't believe matter has always existed.
>

Again, I never said anything about Matter not existing. But I'ma let you cook.


>maybe you're just incapable of understanding matter and your
>attributing it something you think you do understand (god).
>
>I don't believe there ever was a "nothing", i think matter and
>energy has always been here.


^^ Failed to read any peer review science papers about the where matter comes from and the Big Bang.. SMH.
.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 06:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
185. "it seems you're the one who lacks comprehension"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

matter is quantifiable, we can measure and test it. we've figured out quite a few of the various governing laws for closed systems

the point is, some of us "believe", or better yet, understand matter to be true and real. that what is is, and always will be, just in some different form.

there is no what created matter, just as for you there is no what created God.

I just don't understand why feel you have such a grasp of concept you identify as God, but question the science that came about from the very beings you say he controls.

is this to justify your beliefs in the word of the bible?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 10:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
192. "So your just going insult the science community "
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

Because the question has been asked by scientists for years.

So, trying to question my intellect about the matter is a waste. You should question your own limited thoughs.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
140. "re: faith in the scientific explanations"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i trolled an atheist at work over this a couple yrs ago
me, him, and a friend of his spent a couple days on a irc chat in a circular argument over him putting faith in the origins of big bang
i'm not going say you can't leverage information to come to some conclusion
but damn at least admit there is a point where you just can't explain it anymore and concede that you just believe the shit just because someone else told you it's true
i wasn't even trying to necessarily make the correlation between that and religious faith
but the mere thought of the comparison makes many of these cats refuse to concede anything

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
141. "Start reading at #102"
In response to Reply # 140


          

Haha!

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
20414 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 04:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
159. "i think most people will concede that they dont know but "
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

what they wont usually concede


is that there was just some dude hanging out and on a whim decided to create the universe itself

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 10:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
169. "Unless they were Isaac Newton of course"
In response to Reply # 159


          

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
20414 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 08:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
190. "unless most people are isaac newton?"
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

is he some kind of transformer made up other humans? or maybe hes like freddy kruger and hes got other humans souls hanging out in his chest

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
17882 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 06:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
163. "a Bojangles' biscuit"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-23-15 06:46 PM by Garhart Poppwell

  

          

Explains a lot, if you ask me.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Hitokiri
Charter member
20854 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 08:26 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
165. "Question for you Case"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Can God microwave a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
175. "So you think God eats human food? OK."
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

>Can God microwave a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat
>it?


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 04:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
176. "I love that you posted this"
In response to Reply # 165


          

It makes me laugh out loud every-time.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
20414 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 02:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
178. "wow..as a melon scratcher thats a honey doodle!"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BLAKEY
Member since Jun 25th 2012
234 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 11:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
173. "RE: Where did all the matter in the universe come from? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Uranus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12272 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 04:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
179. "Energy isn't always conserved."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm pretending you actually want the answer. Probably somebody does, at least.

People naively think mass means "stuff" and energy means, I don't know, "wobbly stuff." And they think conservation of energy is something to be taken for granted, as an obvious, common-sense fact. But as we've learned time after time after time in physics, whenever you dig deep enough, your common sense is eventually wrong.

In physics, mass and energy refer to very specific things, and their conservation follows from certain underlying assumptions. These assumptions hold accurately in your and my limited range of experience, but these assumptions are strongly violated in the early evolution of the universe (or in many other extreme astrophysical events).

Specifically, energy is defined as a "charge" (in a technical mathematical sense) associated with "time-translation symmetry" of the universe. "Time translation symmetry" is the assumption that the underlying fabric of spacetime geometry is unchanging with respect to time. If that assumption holds, then one can show that energy is constant. (Mass, by the way, is related to energy, but it would take us down too technical a road to clarify the relationship in general. At the very least, we've all heard of E=mc^2.)

So when the universe is not appreciably changing in time, then energy is conserved. When the universe is appreciably changing, then energy is not conserved. In the time shortly after the big bang, the universe was obviously changing very rapidly.

Energy is "mostly" (though not exactly) conserved in the universe as a whole today (as long as we leave dark energy out of the picture, which is totally not conserved). But in the early universe it wasn't.

This is all standard physics that has existed for a hundred years now. Einstein's general theory of relativity. You might be surprised to hear that the general "theory" of relativity is more fundamental and more accurate than the first "law" of thermodynamics. But as you've been told hundreds of times around here, those words don't mean what you think they mean.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 06:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
184. "I appreciate you contribution."
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

>I'm pretending you actually want the answer. Probably
>somebody does, at least.
>
>People naively think mass means "stuff" and energy means, I
>don't know, "wobbly stuff." And they think conservation of
>energy is something to be taken for granted, as an obvious,
>common-sense fact. But as we've learned time after time after
>time in physics, whenever you dig deep enough, your common
>sense is eventually wrong.
>
>In physics, mass and energy refer to very specific things, and
>their conservation follows from certain underlying
>assumptions. These assumptions hold accurately in your and my
>limited range of experience, but these assumptions are
>strongly violated in the early evolution of the universe (or
>in many other extreme astrophysical events).
>
>Specifically, energy is defined as a "charge" (in a technical
>mathematical sense) associated with "time-translation
>symmetry" of the universe. "Time translation symmetry" is the
>assumption that the underlying fabric of spacetime geometry is
>unchanging with respect to time. If that assumption holds,
>then one can show that energy is constant. (Mass, by the way,
>is related to energy, but it would take us down too technical
>a road to clarify the relationship in general. At the very
>least, we've all heard of E=mc^2.)
>
>So when the universe is not appreciably changing in time, then
>energy is conserved. When the universe is appreciably
>changing, then energy is not conserved. In the time shortly
>after the big bang, the universe was obviously changing very
>rapidly.
>
>Energy is "mostly" (though not exactly) conserved in the
>universe as a whole today (as long as we leave dark energy out
>of the picture, which is totally not conserved). But in the
>early universe it wasn't.
>
>This is all standard physics that has existed for a hundred
>years now. Einstein's general theory of relativity. You might
>be surprised to hear that the general "theory" of relativity
>is more fundamental and more accurate than the first "law" of
>thermodynamics. But as you've been told hundreds of times
>around here, those words don't mean what you think they mean.
>



I only brought up the that the First Law of Thermodynamics as a starting point for conversation. Sure Matter can be more than Stuff, but we had to start somewhere. So do you think that The Second Law of Thermodynamics, applies to the conversation?


And yes the the Big Bang Theory violates the first law of thermodynamics. But that still doesn't explain where the Matter of any kind comes from.






.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

hardware
Member since May 22nd 2007
42242 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 08:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
188. "i can't believe ya'll took this bait"
In response to Reply # 0


          

even with that last sentence hanging out right there.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10084 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 08:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
189. "One poster acting a fool doesn't have to get in the way of learning"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

It's not always about the trolling post so much as helping people who can still approach the topic with an open mind.

Just IMO though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Sat Jan-24-15 10:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
191. "Money, this was no bait, "
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

The question has been a topic scientific discussion and debates for years.

It's not like I made the question up.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Backbone
Charter member
8218 posts
Sun Jan-25-15 10:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
193. "As usual, I'm glad that some posters did go for the bait, more or less."
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

It's always fun and interesting to discuss these matters, even if it's in a thread made by someone a lot of us strongly suspect isn't really interested in discussion.

I for one, enjoyed the contributions of both Initiationofplato (hope I remembered that correctly) and Stravinskian. The former because I greatly enjoy the ability of Zen Buddhism to articulate pretty accurate views of a complex reality into clear and concise non-technical language. The latter because it's interesting to read about the more technical/mathematical details and see some common misconceptions dispelled by someone with extensive relevant academic experience.

Plus I'm high right now, so yay.

___________________
"So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 08:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
194. "Up for no big bang"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

Incidentally the alias in the locked thread seemed to think this supported creationism. I'm still scratching my head on how they got that from a theory which purports the universe has no beginning and no end.

It's also worth noting I don't believe this theory has been peer reviewed yet and its based on a science/philosopher who was influenced by krishnamuti.

I mean Einstein was a jew who some say stopped working once that conflict got to difficult, so take that with a grain of salt too.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 08:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
195. "Where did I state I supported creationism? "
In response to Reply # 194
Tue Feb-10-15 08:39 PM by initiationofplato

          

That is only something you assumed.

I don't believe in anything except the present moment of a unified energy manifesting in the truth of *being now*. My god, my science is the one NOW. My objective from the beginning was to demonstrate that the big bang model uses faith, just as much as religion uses faith.

Ultimately, this is to demonstrate oneness and sameness in seemingly opposing ideas, in one unified energy expressing itself with complex patterns. Science and Religion are both saying "we are the same." to me and that is what I wanted to share as my experience as a human being, which I am and have a right to.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 09:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
196. "not about you, there were two locked threads"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12722841&mesg_id=12722841&listing_type=search

>That is only something you assumed.

Nope you assumed I was talking about you alias.

>I don't believe in anything except the present moment of a
>unified energy manifesting in the truth of *being now*. My
>god, my science is the one NOW. My objective from the
>beginning was to demonstrate that the big bang model uses
>faith, just as much as religion uses faith.
>
>Ultimately, this is to demonstrate oneness and sameness in
>seemingly opposing ideas, in one unified energy expressing
>itself with complex patterns. Science and Religion are both
>saying "we are the same." to me and that is what I wanted to
>share as my experience as a human being, which I am and have a
>right to.

So to repeat my question in your locked thread, are you prepared to say this theory is *it* or are you just happy for something that counter's big bang?

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 10:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
197. "I didn't see that post, settle down."
In response to Reply # 196
Tue Feb-10-15 10:16 PM by initiationofplato

          

Also, I just answered your question. I have my personal belief which I have a right to as a human being, and finally, I just wanted to laugh at the irony of science and religion sharing faith. This is all for my personal amusement, and when I say this, I mean this entire universe.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 10:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
198. "good to know your self importance isn't limited to these boards"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

>This is all for my personal amusement, and when
>I say this, I mean this entire universe.

"dance puppet universe"?

>Also, I just answered your question.

Nah my question was in an either or form, unless you're opting out with what you put below.

>I have my personal
>belief which I have a right to as a human being

What belief is that? An who endowed you with that right as a human being, because I mean this entire universe is here for my personal amusement too. Which means I can revoke your human rights to belief right?

>and finally,
>I just wanted to laugh at the irony of science and religion
>sharing faith.

I saw you trying to avoid the fallacy of this statement in the locked thread. I assume that was for your own amusement too. Because if you employed logic you'd realize that making a viable (even if later proven wrong) hypothesis which is consistent with the verifiable theorems already postulated isn't really faith, more like a placeholder until you receive more information.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 11:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
199. "RE: not self importance, self realization "
In response to Reply # 198
Tue Feb-10-15 11:10 PM by initiationofplato

          

>What belief is that? An who endowed you with that right as a
>human being, because I mean this entire universe is here for
>my personal amusement too. Which means I can revoke your human
>rights to belief right?


There is one unified universe which expresses itself through patterns which are the same to one another, but, what makes them different is their relationship to one another. As an example, all the planets in our solar system are built on the same laws and look different because of their distances to one another (relationships). There can be no foreground without the background, in order for the relationship between science and religion to illuminate our understanding of the universe, they both need to exist. They need to contrast one another so we know where and how to look using any medium we have access to including ourselves.

Someone's belief in god, or not, is NONE of anyone's business. Science has tricked itself into thinking they know the truth and take a point of authority and higher ground, with a mighty chip on their shoulder when speaking to someone whom is spiritually inclined. That is oppression and what I call the though police. What I wanted to point out is that both science and religion are built on the same ground, to illuminate how hilarious the irony of this classic struggle really is.

I believe everything is one unified living and conscious happening whose past and future is irrelevant. The importance lays in the present moment of now, that is the only time we have access to and the only time that is important and worthwhile. Looking for the beginning of a present moment is impossible, the present moment is its own suchness, and so it is eternal. The big bang is happening right now. God or religion is happening right now as well. It is all important and needed and trying to determine the *top* and correct theory is not science, and it is not religion either, it is confusion.

>
>>and finally,
>>I just wanted to laugh at the irony of science and religion
>>sharing faith.
>
>I saw you trying to avoid the fallacy of this statement in the
>locked thread. I assume that was for your own amusement too.
>Because if you employed logic you'd realize that making a
>viable (even if later proven wrong) hypothesis which is
>consistent with the verifiable theorems already postulated
>isn't really faith, more like a placeholder until you receive
>more information.
>

Placeholder. Only for the most profound reality there ever was. That's pretty hilarious. Gee, it reminds me of something called God.

For my further amusement:

"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there," Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told Phys.org.

The laws break down, do you know what that implies? It implies that the laws prove nothing because they are not present to verify their own existence. There is NOTHING to substantiate the singularity. It is taken on faith just as god is. The singularity is god and god is the singularity, in that they share ZERO evidence where physical laws are impossible, and both drive the most profound question that we have to consider.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 11:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
200. "you should just say you don't like science..."
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

>Placeholder. Only for the most profound reality there ever
>was. That's pretty hilarious. Gee, it reminds me of something
>called God.

Actually not at all. The difference being the concept of god to believers is infallible. It can't not be. Big Bang can be removed from the equation if more information is provided which proves it unnecessary.

>For my further amusement:
>
>"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of
>general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break
>down there," Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the
>Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told
>Phys.org.

Technically they don't actually break down there though. It goes through bang and crunch cycles creating the multiverse, only one of which we are in. So that quote is actually a misrepresentation.

>The laws break down, do you know what that implies? It implies
>that the laws prove nothing because they are not present to
>verify their own existence. There is NOTHING to substantiate
>the singularity.

Wrong there's actually a lot which supports it, not the least of which is the observable expansion of the universe. But go ahead and take that quote on faith.

> It is taken on faith just as god is. The
>singularity is god and god is the singularity, in that they
>share ZERO evidence where physical laws are impossible, and
>both drive the most profound question that we have to
>consider.

Again you're wrong, but seeing as you're just happy a couple of scientist are against the big bang...


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Tue Feb-10-15 11:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
201. "I just said both are essential."
In response to Reply # 200


          

I love science, and I love god. However, what god means to me is far different than what god means to the mainstream.

>Actually not at all. The difference being the concept of god
>to believers is infallible. It can't not be. Big Bang can be
>removed from the equation if more information is provided
>which proves it unnecessary.
>

Clever, but, it works both ways.

God is unnecessary as he/she has never shown his/her face. We could just as well believe in the big bang and it wouldn't make a difference.


>Technically they don't actually break down there though. It
>goes through bang and crunch cycles creating the multiverse,
>only one of which we are in. So that quote is actually a
>misrepresentation.

No, it does break down. If you don't want to take my word on it, take Michio Kaku's.

>Wrong there's actually a lot which supports it, not the least
>of which is the observable expansion of the universe. But go
>ahead and take that quote on faith.

You are choosing to believe something that is incorrect. You are placing the flag in the wrong ground. Could it be faith?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity

http://www.nature.com/news/big-bang-blunder-bursts-the-multiverse-bubble-1.15346

>
>> It is taken on faith just as god is. The
>>singularity is god and god is the singularity, in that they
>>share ZERO evidence where physical laws are impossible, and
>>both drive the most profound question that we have to
>>consider.
>
>Again you're wrong, but seeing as you're just happy a couple
>of scientist are against the big bang...

I'm not against the big bang. Where did you get that? Are you reading what I am writing? I am simply pointing to the fact that its built on nothing.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 12:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
202. "then choose another word"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

>I love science, and I love god. However, what god means to me
>is far different than what god means to the mainstream.

because when you use the word god all of the common associations are going to be made.

>Clever, but, it works both ways.
>
>God is unnecessary as he/she has never shown his/her face. We
>could just as well believe in the big bang and it wouldn't
>make a difference.

That's not the common approach to God. It's not what so many humans put their faith in.

>No, it does break down. If you don't want to take my word on
>it, take Michio Kaku's.

Kaku talks about the possibility of the multiverse. It's all theoretical placeholders waiting for evidence.

>>Wrong there's actually a lot which supports it, not the
>least
>>of which is the observable expansion of the universe. But go
>>ahead and take that quote on faith.
>
>You are choosing to believe something that is incorrect. You
>are placing the flag in the wrong ground. Could it be faith?

No I'm merely explaining why the big bang theory has held up for so long, because it's been supported by observable evidence. Should further evidence be found which doesn't necessitate it then I'm willing to replace it.

>I'm not against the big bang. Where did you get that? Are you
>reading what I am writing? I am simply pointing to the fact
>that its built on nothing.

Sorry you're just trying to get to a concession that the big bang is based on faith, which is absolutely wrong, but again do you.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 10:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
205. "I'm happy we can talk"
In response to Reply # 202


          

We got off on the wrong foot but I can tell you are reasonable and thoughtful.


>because when you use the word god all of the common
>associations are going to be made.
>

Common associations are recent, there are thousands of years behind these words with completely different meanings. Meanings that have stood for thousands of years, our interpretation of religion is fairly recent, God stood as an allegory for the super physical forces of nature for thousands of years. He never had a gender or personality. That is all new. I would suggest looking into theology and into the origins of god.

>>Clever, but, it works both ways.
>>
>>God is unnecessary as he/she has never shown his/her face.
>We
>>could just as well believe in the big bang and it wouldn't
>>make a difference.
>
>That's not the common approach to God. It's not what so many
>humans put their faith in.

Faith is a good thing. It is the masthead to adventure and discovery. We all have faith in our ideas and belief structures, it does not matter that we do not always have observable data to prove it, it's the way you feel and what you infer. When it comes to love, god, existence, careers, or science, faith is always present. I find it odd that materialists have such a hard time with the word. All theories are born of faith, upon which mathematical theorem is developed to prove them afterward. The math always comes after the leap of logic. Ironically, the big bang model was presented by a catholic priest and we have been attempting to find proof for it ever since. Some data exists but it is not conclusive and takes into account a quality of the universe. Cosmic Background Radiation is already on the chopping block. I have looked at the big bang model in depth and it is on very thin ground, and new realities/players have to be invented to support it and keep it alive. ie. dark energy, dark matter. Both of which were invented to support the theory as it would be dead in the water without dark energy and matter.


>
>>No, it does break down. If you don't want to take my word on
>>it, take Michio Kaku's.
>
>Kaku talks about the possibility of the multiverse. It's all
>theoretical placeholders waiting for evidence.

Sure he does, but the multiverse does not exist where the physical laws break down. That is impossible. His exact words are that we lose the laws of physics at the event horizon as relativity completely breaks down. How can you apply laws to something that is absent of laws?


>
>>>Wrong there's actually a lot which supports it, not the
>>least
>>>of which is the observable expansion of the universe. But
>go
>>>ahead and take that quote on faith.


You will have to point to the data because I have studied it and I believe you are assuming and speculating. Ironically, You have faith in the theory and I am not sure you have truly studied it in depth. The observable expansion of the universe is a quality of the universe, it does not in any way, conclusively prove that we emerged out of a singularity which gave birth to time and space. That is all theorized and has ZERO proof to support it.

>>
>>You are choosing to believe something that is incorrect. You
>>are placing the flag in the wrong ground. Could it be faith?
>
>
>No I'm merely explaining why the big bang theory has held up
>for so long, because it's been supported by observable
>evidence. Should further evidence be found which doesn't
>necessitate it then I'm willing to replace it.

Incorrect, it has not been supported by observable evidence. It is the best theory we have and it is still in its infancy stages. There are many respected physicists and scientists that have shown very strong arguments against it.

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/BB-top-30.asp

>
>>I'm not against the big bang. Where did you get that? Are
>you
>>reading what I am writing? I am simply pointing to the fact
>>that its built on nothing.
>
>Sorry you're just trying to get to a concession that the big
>bang is based on faith, which is absolutely wrong, but again
>do you.
>

Faith is the absence of evidence.

The singularity has zero evidence to support it as the physical laws break down on the event horizon, it is impossible to prove, hence, it is based on a blind leap of logic. The big bang model is built on building blocks *after* they were already provided, meaning, that we don't know anything about their emergence at all.

-> Singularity -> Big Bang -> Universe -> Cosmic Background Radiation

The Blank represents the unknown leap of logic, in essence, GOD, the singularity and the initial singularity have no proof, the big bang occurred after the most important parts were already given to us, it supposedly gave us the universe, and finally, at the end we have cosmic background radiation which is on flimsy ground and does absolutely NOTHING to support BLANK, singularity.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15539 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 01:11 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
203. "Consciousness "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And all matter is just a vibration of something unseen. From UV light to Argon, to Mercury etc its all just manifestation of the same thing at different wave/particle frequencies.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

40thStreetBlack
Charter member
26190 posts
Wed Feb-11-15 12:59 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
206. "http://i.lvme.me/25hhabl.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.lvme.me/25hhabl.jpg


<----- Long Live The King

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #12706906 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com