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Subject: "Charlie Hebdo to have the prophet Muhammad as their next front cover - s..." Previous topic | Next topic
Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
524 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 03:46 PM

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"Poll question: Charlie Hebdo to have the prophet Muhammad as their next front cover - s..."


  

          

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/13/charlie-hebdo-cover-magazine-prophet-muhammad

Personally I'm behind this 100%. Free speech should not be compromised because some people may get angry over "blasphemy"

Poll result (51 votes)
They should (24 votes)Vote
They shouldn't (27 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
this's actually a really good cover
Jan 13th 2015
1
nope...
Jan 13th 2015
2
Blue. p.s. Muhammad (saws) never had a mustache!
Jan 13th 2015
3
I like it
Jan 13th 2015
4
I am for it but its not even about Free Speech. It's more about you can'...
Jan 13th 2015
5
Well said.
Jan 13th 2015
42
Exactly.
Jan 14th 2015
47
If you tell someone to shut the fuck up, and they respond
Jan 14th 2015
48
      That's not what happened here.
Jan 14th 2015
52
      why is it okay to voice opposition to Westboro Baptist but not to Charli...
Jan 14th 2015
54
      Westboro Baptist Church and the KKK haven't been subject to massacre.
Jan 14th 2015
58
      RE: Westboro Baptist Church and the KKK haven't been subject to massacre...
Jan 14th 2015
65
      wtf are you talking about?
Jan 14th 2015
84
           oh okay.
Jan 14th 2015
88
                happy to have been of assistance.
Jan 14th 2015
98
      LOL sure it isnt.
Jan 14th 2015
55
           Who gets to judge "smart"? Who gets to judge "disrespectful"?
Jan 14th 2015
59
                No they arent but they are packaged as fart jokes.
Jan 14th 2015
64
      Fuck yeah I lost something if someone punks me into not talking.
Jan 14th 2015
68
           so white ppl lost when they stopped calling us 'nigger'.
Jan 14th 2015
69
                Black people definitely won something when it because socially unaccepta...
Jan 14th 2015
86
                     and freedom of expression suffers.
Jan 14th 2015
87
                          Not really. Folks are free to use the N word all they want.
Jan 14th 2015
97
                               yes, Buddy.
Jan 14th 2015
99
                                    and you know what else is wrong?
Jan 14th 2015
103
                                         I hear you but I disagree. Charlie Hedbo, South Park, The Onion, Colbert...
Jan 14th 2015
108
                                              ^
Jan 14th 2015
123
                                              even those folks censor themselves though.
Jan 14th 2015
124
                                              And I am sure Charlie Hedbo censors themselves sometimes to. so?
Jan 14th 2015
126
                                                   so they should've censored themselves when it came to those
Jan 14th 2015
139
                                                   Why? because you think so?
Jan 14th 2015
                                                        *pats head*
Jan 14th 2015
151
                                                             As one of my favourite posters
Jan 14th 2015
157
                                                                  if i gave a fuck about your opinion of me
Jan 14th 2015
158
                                                                       *reluctantly updates database with a heavy heart*...
Jan 14th 2015
161
                                                   ugh... I can't even fathom what they find too contraversal
Jan 14th 2015
143
                                              RE: I hear you but I disagree. Charlie Hedbo, South Park, The Onion, Col...
Jan 14th 2015
138
I don't agree.
Jan 14th 2015
153
lol freedom of expression i get it. but where is the respect?
Jan 13th 2015
6
no ideology is validated simply by its own existence
Jan 13th 2015
7
Lol it exists. and at some point u have
Jan 13th 2015
19
respect is subjective
Jan 13th 2015
9
nm
Jan 13th 2015
20
First off, I don't HAVE to respect shit. More importantly me not followi...
Jan 13th 2015
21
Lol if you wanna keep thinking like an idiot ok.
Jan 13th 2015
33
      Freedom of speech is not freedom from offense.
Jan 14th 2015
49
      Wow what a glorious spectacular way to fall apart and catch and L.
Jan 14th 2015
70
           RE: Wow what a glorious spectacular way to fall apart and catch and L.
Jan 14th 2015
141
Actually, you don't.
Jan 14th 2015
187
they almost had to at this point.
Jan 13th 2015
8
So I'm assuming his head is *supposed* to look like a dick?
Jan 13th 2015
10
^^^^^^
Jan 14th 2015
128
Its my right to wear a red shirt whenever I feel like it, right?
Jan 13th 2015
11
no, you do not have the right to wear a red shirt
Jan 13th 2015
13
This analogy is so dumb because the question is what world do you
Jan 13th 2015
22
Well...
Jan 13th 2015
38
      somethings are worth dying for, somethings arent
Jan 13th 2015
40
It was her fault because she wore a short skirt.
Jan 14th 2015
50
Stupid asses. Not a surprise though.
Jan 13th 2015
12
you dont?
Jan 13th 2015
16
RE: you dont?
Jan 13th 2015
17
      You don't think giving in would send a "This worked!" message?!
Jan 14th 2015
53
           this is laughable
Jan 14th 2015
60
           Why so? Care to expand?
Jan 14th 2015
61
           Agreed
Jan 14th 2015
66
                hello.
Jan 14th 2015
67
                because the 1% profit immensely from all of this
Jan 14th 2015
109
                right.
Jan 14th 2015
117
                The whole "We'll show them" attitude just points to the inability...
Jan 14th 2015
122
                ^^^ Right here
Jan 14th 2015
169
           RE: You don't think giving in would send a "This worked!" message?!
Jan 14th 2015
121
they do it to push the limits on france's freedom of speech
Jan 13th 2015
26
< -- not Charlie.
Jan 13th 2015
14
me neither...
Jan 13th 2015
39
fuck charlie
Jan 14th 2015
43
      double fuck charlie.
Jan 14th 2015
93
Moves and counter moves now
Jan 13th 2015
15
from 60k units to 3 milly. Hmmmm
Jan 13th 2015
18
Anything is possible
Jan 13th 2015
23
If they're willing to deal with the reactions...
Jan 13th 2015
24
They shouldn't be bullied into silencing their mode of expression.
Jan 13th 2015
25
they don't have a universal right to freedom of expression
Jan 13th 2015
27
France doesn't have jurisdiction over the Universe.
Jan 13th 2015
28
      no shit we're talking about france...
Jan 13th 2015
31
           where did I cite "french law" ?
Jan 13th 2015
32
                you didn't. that was your error.
Jan 13th 2015
35
                     Let me help you out.
Jan 13th 2015
36
Well said
Jan 13th 2015
29
RE: Well said
Jan 13th 2015
34
Everyone has the right to freedom of expression.
Jan 13th 2015
37
RE: They shouldn't be bullied into silencing their mode of expression.
Jan 14th 2015
56
      RE: They shouldn't be bullied into silencing their mode of expression.
Jan 14th 2015
71
           You're profoundly simple.
Jan 14th 2015
82
                neat.
Jan 14th 2015
201
JESUS, CHARLIE.
Jan 13th 2015
30
theyre gonna be selling like 50 cent mixtapes in the early aughts
Jan 13th 2015
41
I'm fucking sick and tired of the term "respect" being thrown around
Jan 14th 2015
44
BOOM! (c) John Madden
Jan 14th 2015
45
LMAO. no.
Jan 14th 2015
46
as much as Charlie has a right to put out their images
Jan 14th 2015
101
i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey being mad about being asked to
Jan 14th 2015
51
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jan 14th 2015
57
      thank you
Jan 14th 2015
62
      lol - this is what some of y'all really just want to say:
Jan 14th 2015
72
      I mean, he gave good reasons why; you just dismissed them...
Jan 14th 2015
74
      Now if only the French would admit their obvious hatred for non-whites
Jan 14th 2015
75
      you do realize that you're using "they" with reckless abandon, right?
Jan 14th 2015
200
           Sure, fella.
Jan 14th 2015
202
           they seemed pretty united at that march
Jan 14th 2015
207
      cmon, Vex. His statement was HIGHLY qualified.
Jan 14th 2015
79
      yup. whitey != all white ppl.
Jan 14th 2015
81
      lol!
Jan 14th 2015
171
      WHAT??? How DARE you speak of context??? FREE SPEEEEEECH
Jan 14th 2015
180
      lol 'some?' We are all sick of Whitey Ford's Blues
Jan 14th 2015
112
      Aw, you are so cute when you're mad.
Jan 14th 2015
73
      bitch, I'm always cute.
Jan 14th 2015
77
           lmao
Jan 14th 2015
78
      Go after the whitey power structure then, Killing Cartoonist doesn't fur...
Jan 14th 2015
91
      *pats head*
Jan 14th 2015
92
           This remarkably sounds like every rape convo ever had on these boards
Jan 14th 2015
105
                yes, we have.
Jan 14th 2015
155
      ***STANDING O***
Jan 14th 2015
94
      claps to this...
Jan 14th 2015
104
      http://images.cpcache.com/merchandise/514_400x400_NoPeel.jpg?region=name...
Jan 14th 2015
106
      BTW, how does Boko Haram fit into all this?
Jan 14th 2015
116
      jesus.
Jan 14th 2015
125
      You know how they fit in? Because they killed 2000 black people
Jan 14th 2015
129
      ^
Jan 14th 2015
133
      ush, doing too much now.
Jan 14th 2015
131
      Say it again.
Jan 14th 2015
130
      RE: i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey being mad about being asked to
Jan 14th 2015
132
      so pretty much fuck anyone who disagrees with you. got it.
Jan 14th 2015
176
           RE: so pretty much fuck anyone who disagrees with you. got it.
Jan 14th 2015
192
      nailing it
Jan 14th 2015
134
      How come you know so much about French race relations?
Jan 14th 2015
189
Not to sound ignorant but I thought that was Osama not Muhammad
Jan 14th 2015
63
^^good point. I thought M was...rounder.
Jan 14th 2015
89
Does France really have "Freedom of Speech?"
Jan 14th 2015
76
You could post those sorts of links in the U.S., too
Jan 14th 2015
83
No you can't. Not like that...
Jan 14th 2015
85
You know, I was thinking someone would bring this up a looong time ago.
Jan 14th 2015
90
zzzzzzzzzzzz...
Jan 14th 2015
80
Damn some of y'all got some low ass opinions of Muslims.
Jan 14th 2015
95
my GOD.
Jan 14th 2015
96
those shooters don't represent all muslims
Jan 14th 2015
100
I don't disagree with what you said but I don't think it was responsive
Jan 14th 2015
110
Buddy I'll be real with you
Jan 14th 2015
107
I mean John Brown, Nat Turner are heroes to me.
Jan 14th 2015
111
      KKK is part of the power structure though
Jan 14th 2015
114
           KKK these days are a bunch of underemployed highschool drop outs
Jan 14th 2015
115
                I don't buy it and I don't give em' a pass
Jan 14th 2015
118
                     Suit yourself but I don't believe in GIVING certain people power over me
Jan 14th 2015
127
                          It's not about giving power it's about balancing the scales
Jan 14th 2015
136
who said they were freedom fighters?
Jan 14th 2015
119
what?!
Jan 14th 2015
195
http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/charlie-hebdo-france-satire-te...
Jan 14th 2015
102
France’s Jews, they’re already reportedly emigrating in droves
Jan 14th 2015
167
I am not Charlie. Swipe.
Jan 14th 2015
113
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jan 14th 2015
140
RE: I am not Charlie. Swipe.
Jan 14th 2015
144
Can you stop with the stupid fucking analogy?
Jan 14th 2015
147
      Huh?
Jan 14th 2015
148
      RE: Can you stop with the stupid fucking analogy?
Jan 14th 2015
149
      they're willfully ignorant.
Jan 14th 2015
150
           You follow his analogy?
Jan 14th 2015
164
                *pats head*
Jan 14th 2015
165
                RE: You follow his analogy?
Jan 14th 2015
172
                     listen, fucker.
Jan 14th 2015
183
This is another person not familiar with CH writing it off as racist.
Jan 14th 2015
168
RE: This is another person not familiar with CH writing it off as racist...
Jan 14th 2015
170
RE: This is another person not familiar with CH writing it off as racist...
Jan 14th 2015
175
      RE: This is another person not familiar with CH writing it off as racist...
Jan 14th 2015
177
cosign
Jan 14th 2015
194
http://m.ebay.com/itm/271737960646?nav=SEARCH
Jan 14th 2015
120
Never thought i see the day when blacks defend a minstrel show
Jan 14th 2015
135
That was their first cartoon
Jan 14th 2015
137
They want to be on the white side of history
Jan 14th 2015
142
RE: Charlie Hebdo to have the prophet Muhammad as their next front cover...
Jan 14th 2015
145
African Americans - 13% of US Population/50% of US Prison Population
Jan 14th 2015
154
RE: African Americans - 13% of US Population/50% of US Prison Population
Jan 14th 2015
156
      you don't see their recurring caricature of a muslim (mohammed) as racis...
Jan 14th 2015
159
      RE: you don't see their recurring caricature of a muslim (mohammed) as r...
Jan 14th 2015
160
           I thought that is what you would hide behind. Religious Discrimination
Jan 14th 2015
162
                RE: I thought that is what you would hide behind. Religious Discriminati...
Jan 14th 2015
166
                     If you really cared if the cartoons were racist or not
Jan 14th 2015
179
                     RE: If you really cared if the cartoons were racist or not
Jan 14th 2015
186
                          "Massa Charlie aint racist yall"
Jan 14th 2015
190
                     and you still haven't answered my question from a few replies prior
Jan 14th 2015
184
                          RE: and you still haven't answered my question from a few replies prior
Jan 14th 2015
196
      their drawings can easily be construed as racist
Jan 14th 2015
163
there are a few cartoons depicting black France officials
Jan 14th 2015
174
      RE: there are a few cartoons depicting black France officials
Jan 14th 2015
178
           That actually ads a lot of context
Jan 14th 2015
182
           thanks for this
Jan 14th 2015
193
           Actually yes it still is
Jan 14th 2015
203
                RE: Actually yes it still is
Jan 15th 2015
209
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lliana-bird/charlie-hebdo_b_6461030.html
Jan 14th 2015
146
Well, here's what former contributor Oliver Cyran wrote...
Jan 14th 2015
181
      RE: Well, here's what former contributor Oliver Cyran wrote...
Jan 14th 2015
185
           *sigh*
Jan 14th 2015
188
           Exactly
Jan 14th 2015
205
           on the surface they are racist...
Jan 14th 2015
197
                RE: on the surface they are racist...
Jan 14th 2015
199
It's about respect. Clearly. (NWS)
Jan 14th 2015
152
agreed
Jan 14th 2015
173
Really love how everyone is an expert on French race politics
Jan 14th 2015
191
lol right? they don't care, though. It's raging think-piece revolution
Jan 14th 2015
198
there's a million things that aren't illegal to print. why this?
Jan 14th 2015
204
      Because they can
Jan 14th 2015
206
Understanding Charlie Hebdo.
Jan 15th 2015
208

John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15358 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 04:00 PM

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1. "this's actually a really good cover"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jan-13-15 04:05 PM

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2. "nope... "
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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Tue Jan-13-15 04:07 PM

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3. "Blue. p.s. Muhammad (saws) never had a mustache! "
In response to Reply # 0


          

That being said, when Hezbollah says the killing of the Charlie staff was over the line, you know you're f--king up!



Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


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flionel
Member since Jul 08th 2010
576 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 04:08 PM

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4. "I like it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Jan-13-15 04:09 PM

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5. "I am for it but its not even about Free Speech. It's more about you can'..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-13-15 04:10 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

terrorize us into getting what you want.

Yeah maybe there was an argument before about it being disrespectful prior to the shooting, but once, you know, you kill people then the discourse about respect kind of goes out the window.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

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Lil Rabies
Member since Oct 12th 2005
1578 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 11:23 PM

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42. "Well said."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I can understand theology opposed to worldliness. I can't understand a theology opposed to civilization. No different than zombieism I suppose with that us or them.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:18 AM

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47. "Exactly."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

This is literally one of those "If they don't do it, the terrorists have won" situations that people always want everything else to be.

_______________________________

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forever.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:32 AM

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48. "If you tell someone to shut the fuck up, and they respond"
In response to Reply # 47
Wed Jan-14-15 04:34 AM by Heinz

  

          

by punching you in the face. Then next encounter u don't even say anything to them, do you lose? And what is it that you lose when you are the one that started the exchange?

This ain't one of those "the terrorists wins" situations because you would have to have SOMETHING taken away from you that is fundamental to who you are. Freedom of speech WOULD be that thing, if this was about that issue (which you already agreed that it isn't the issue). Its really simple guys. Respect. I don't see how people are that fucking stupid to see it for what it is. Thats it.



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TheAlbionist
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52. "That's not what happened here."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

The person saying "Shut the fuck up" was the one doing the punching.

Freedom of Speech exists or it doesn't. If we believe in Freedom of Speech, we believe in it for those who we disagree with.

I disagree with a lot of what I've seen Charlie Hebdo have published, but that doesn't mean I want them silenced any more than I think the Tea Party, the British National Party or the Westboro Baptist Church should be silenced. Freedom of speech means they all get to say whatever they want, and we get to *say* (not shoot) whatever we want about them.

People who respond to pictures, however "offensive", with guns are worse than anyone brandishing a crayon and we, as a society, need to have the guts to stick up for our core beliefs. As I mentioned in another post - the Muslim cop shot whilst defending the offices of a publication that mocked his religion understood this as innately as Voltaire.

#jesuisahmed

_______________________________

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 05:32 AM

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54. "why is it okay to voice opposition to Westboro Baptist but not to Charli..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

why is it okay to voice opposition to the KKK's speech but not to Charlie Hebdo's?

why is it okay to voice opposition to Fox News's speech but not to Charlie Hebdo's?

is it okay to disagree w/Charlie's speech while understanding that CH has the absolute right to publish any filth it wants? and that the right shouldn't trampled by any government or terror?

is it okay to defend free speech w/o identifying w/Charlie?

b/c i don't see ppl wearing "I Am Westboro" shirts. i don't see any "I Am KKK" signs. where are those?

fuck you.

  

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TheAlbionist
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Wed Jan-14-15 05:53 AM

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58. "Westboro Baptist Church and the KKK haven't been subject to massacre."
In response to Reply # 54
Wed Jan-14-15 05:54 AM by TheAlbionist

  

          

It's absolutely fine to say you disagree with Charlie Hebdo just as it's absolutely fine to say you disagree with the KKK, Westboro, me or Barack Obama.

That's Freedom of Speech. The Freedom to say what the fuck you want and the freedom for anyone that hears to rip you to shreds.

Reacting with weaponry is not part of this arrangement.

I think a lot of the "#JeSuisCharlie" momentum comes from the fact that most of us foreigners have no idea what Charlie Hebdo really stands for. Obviously it'd be harder for us to defend something most people knew they disagreed with... but that doesn't mean that, in principal, we probably shouldn't.

The biggest man in this entire story is the Muslim cop who laid his life down to defend a publication that mocked his religion. There's a man that believed in Western values.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

_______________________________

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SoWhat
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65. "RE: Westboro Baptist Church and the KKK haven't been subject to massacre..."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

>It's absolutely fine to say you disagree with Charlie Hebdo
>just as it's absolutely fine to say you disagree with the KKK,
>Westboro, me or Barack Obama.

gee, thanks!

>That's Freedom of Speech. The Freedom to say what the fuck you
>want and the freedom for anyone that hears to rip you to
>shreds.


thanks for the whitesplanation.

>Reacting with weaponry is not part of this arrangement.

duh.

>I think a lot of the "#JeSuisCharlie" momentum comes from the
>fact that most of us foreigners have no idea what Charlie
>Hebdo really stands for.

i'm quite sure of that.


>"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death
>your right to say it."

that's cute.

fuck you.

  

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shockzilla
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:07 AM

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84. "wtf are you talking about?"
In response to Reply # 54


          

no one has ever said that it's not okay to disagree with the magazine.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:13 AM

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88. "oh okay."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

fuck you.

  

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shockzilla
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:37 AM

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98. "happy to have been of assistance."
In response to Reply # 88


          

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20532 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 05:35 AM

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55. "LOL sure it isnt."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Also im not saying silence anyone. I'm saying be smarter at your satire. Theres a line between freedom and speech and trolling that is constantly being blurred because its so easy to hide behind freedom of speech. You have that freedom nobody wants to take that away from you. But to hide behind it when you are being disrespectful is pretty ridiculous to me. There are other political satire shows or comedic pieces that are saying the same things but in respectful ways where you can politely and respectfully make fun. *shrugs*
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IG : H_N_Z

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
3306 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 05:58 AM

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59. "Who gets to judge "smart"? Who gets to judge "disrespectful"?"
In response to Reply # 55
Wed Jan-14-15 05:58 AM by TheAlbionist

  

          

That seems like an incredibly difficult judgement to enforce societywide... the answers to both of the above would be different for everyone in any given society.

Either people can say whatever they like or they can't. Anything else is borderline impossible to implement.

Do you think Team America: World Police or South Park's weekly output are "respectful" enough? Should we turn our backs on Comedy Central if they get attacked?


>Also im not saying silence anyone. I'm saying be smarter at
>your satire. Theres a line between freedom and speech and
>trolling that is constantly being blurred because its so easy
>to hide behind freedom of speech. You have that freedom nobody
>wants to take that away from you. But to hide behind it when
>you are being disrespectful is pretty ridiculous to me. There
>are other political satire shows or comedic pieces that are
>saying the same things but in respectful ways where you can
>politely and respectfully make fun. *shrugs*
>____
>
>TWITTER : Heinz21st
>
>IG : H_N_Z

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20532 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 06:50 AM

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64. "No they arent but they are packaged as fart jokes."
In response to Reply # 59
Wed Jan-14-15 06:57 AM by Heinz

  

          

And people take them as fart jokes lol

But when they did cross the line and if someone did something harmful to them would i have much empathy for them? Not really. I mean i wouldnt want them to die i'd really only feel bad that they died over a joke.

Thats the risk u take for being disrespectful tho. You risk that someone is gonna take it to that level. *shrugs*


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-14-15 07:28 AM

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68. "Fuck yeah I lost something if someone punks me into not talking. "
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Where you from that's not the case?


>by punching you in the face. Then next encounter u don't even
>say anything to them, do you lose? And what is it that you
>lose when you are the one that started the exchange?
>
>This ain't one of those "the terrorists wins" situations
>because you would have to have SOMETHING taken away from you
>that is fundamental to who you are. Freedom of speech WOULD be
>that thing, if this was about that issue (which you already
>agreed that it isn't the issue). Its really simple guys.
>Respect. I don't see how people are that fucking stupid to see
>it for what it is. Thats it.
>
>
>
>____
>
>TWITTER : Heinz21st
>
>IG : H_N_Z


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 07:31 AM

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69. "so white ppl lost when they stopped calling us 'nigger'."
In response to Reply # 68
Wed Jan-14-15 07:32 AM by SoWhat

  

          

b/c they have stopped doing it in polite company. and they've stopped doing it to our face.

they lost when they stopped calling us 'colored' too.

and 'Negro'.

and even 'Black' b/c they seem reticent to use that one too.

they lost.

do they know?

and wait...shouldn't we be defending their RIGHT to call us 'nigger'?

do we not believe in freedom of expression?

shouldn't women stand up for our right to call them 'bitch'?

freedom!

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:11 AM

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86. "Black people definitely won something when it because socially unaccepta..."
In response to Reply # 69
Wed Jan-14-15 09:12 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

to use the word Nigger. White people who wanted to continue to use the word definitely "lost" something.

I would like to think a lot of people didn't "lose" anything but rather became more enlightened and chose to no longer use the word.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:12 AM

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87. "and freedom of expression suffers."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

we need to correct this wrong.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:35 AM

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97. "Not really. Folks are free to use the N word all they want. "
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

They might get socially shunned, lose their job but they probably won't be murdered from using the word.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:39 AM

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99. "yes, Buddy."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

it would be wrong for white ppl to be killed for saying 'nigger' just like it was wrong for the cartoonists to be killed for publishing cartoon depictions of Muhammad.

it was wrong.
it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.it was wrong.

fuck you.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:43 AM

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103. "and you know what else is wrong?"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

Charlie's failure to censor itself and its cartoonists to avoid heaping on to the oppression Muslims face in France and throughout Europe.

my point is (AGAIN) that Charlie should've censored itself WAY before the attacks. and not b/c of any threats and not b/c Islam or Muhammad are sacred and beyond reproach or ridicule or satire but out of concern and respect for ppl who are trampled.

when i say 'censor itself' i don't necessarily mean it shouldn't have published any cartoon drawings of Islam or even Muhammad. but that it could've been more thoughtful and less puerile and more funny and less hateful and racist and xenophobic. again, not b/c of threats from a few radical Muslims who don't represent the majority and who have been soundly condemned by the majority of Muslims, but for the reason i stated above.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-14-15 10:11 AM

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108. "I hear you but I disagree. Charlie Hedbo, South Park, The Onion, Colbert..."
In response to Reply # 103
Wed Jan-14-15 10:15 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

JOn Stewart, Chris Rock, Richard Pryor, George Carlin and many many more people who offend have an important place in our society (even when it is not exactly clear what their message is) and shouldn't be silenced by the people they offend.

In a pluralistic relatively free society you have to learn to ignore those people.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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teefiveten
Member since Oct 02nd 2008
33019 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 12:30 PM

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123. "^"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

.

*************************************
like.me
http://tinyurl.com/3z8486u

"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 12:42 PM

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124. "even those folks censor themselves though."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-14-15 12:45 PM

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126. "And I am sure Charlie Hedbo censors themselves sometimes to. so?"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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139. "so they should've censored themselves when it came to those"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

cartoons.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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"Why? because you think so?"


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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151. "*pats head*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck you.

  

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DropWallet
Member since May 18th 2011
415 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 03:08 PM

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157. "As one of my favourite posters"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

Watching you in these threads is like watching season 5 of the wire.

Just stop.

http://www.gridde.com/

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:10 PM

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158. "if i gave a fuck about your opinion of me"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

i might.

but since i don't, i won't based on this.

so go ahead and update my entry in your database, player.

fuck you.

  

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DropWallet
Member since May 18th 2011
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:21 PM

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161. "*reluctantly updates database with a heavy heart*..."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

http://www.gridde.com/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
73035 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 02:14 PM

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143. "ugh... I can't even fathom what they find too contraversal"
In response to Reply # 126


          

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
524 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 01:57 PM

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138. "RE: I hear you but I disagree. Charlie Hedbo, South Park, The Onion, Col..."
In response to Reply # 108
Wed Jan-14-15 02:02 PM by Tommy-B

  

          

^^^^^^^^^^

either everything's allowed to be made fun of or nothing is

except stuff that's racist or could be classed as hate-speech, of course

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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ThaAnthology
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:55 PM

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153. "I don't agree. "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

www.anthologyfmn.com

Enter the Written World of Fahim Malik Nassar

The House of Caine (available)

Melancholoy Funk (available)

Tha Anthology (Words 2001-2003) Poetry inspired by OKP and Wash, DC
(available)

The Spook who sat by the Radio Poetry (av

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20532 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 05:44 PM

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6. "lol freedom of expression i get it. but where is the respect?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You don't have to agree with any ideology. But you have to respect it and the people to some degree.

At some point freedom of speech just becomes trolling.

____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
33447 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 05:48 PM

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7. "no ideology is validated simply by its own existence"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

There isnt an ideology on earth that deserves respect just because it exists as an ideology

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Tue Jan-13-15 06:53 PM

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19. "Lol it exists. and at some point u have"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

to have a level or respect for it and its people. Im not religious i think religion is toxic as a whole and has done more harm than it has done good. BUT. im not gonna go around disrespecting peoples God's whether I believe in them or not.


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 05:51 PM

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9. "respect is subjective"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>You don't have to agree with any ideology. But you have to
>respect it and the people to some degree.
>
>At some point freedom of speech just becomes trolling.
>

Other faiths get trolled regularly. Are people bemoaning a lack of respect extended to Scientologists or Christians by certain commentators?

Just IMO though.

  

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SoWhat
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20. "nm"
In response to Reply # 9
Tue Jan-13-15 07:11 PM by SoWhat

  

          

I'm done w/y'all and this.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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21. "First off, I don't HAVE to respect shit. More importantly me not followi..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

YOUR rules is not a disrespect to you.

Are gay people being affectionate in front of Christian Fundamentalist disrespecting the Christian Fundamentalist?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Tue Jan-13-15 08:41 PM

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33. "Lol if you wanna keep thinking like an idiot ok."
In response to Reply # 21
Tue Jan-13-15 08:42 PM by Heinz

  

          

Btw comparing Christians and a rule that has no fundamental purpose to their ideology to Muslim's and their God is fucking laughable. I don't know what's funnier the fact that was an actual thought from your stupid brain that came out of your stupid mouth or the fact you typed that and probably had all this pride hitting the "send" button like you actually had a decent point. It was cute how extremely of a dumb fuck of a fuck you are..like when a child does something its supposed to do but you congratulate them anyways because you forgot they are 3 and stupid lol

Dont take offence to any of this tho...u know. Freedom of speech and all.


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:38 AM

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49. "Freedom of speech is not freedom from offense."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

In societies with free speech, people will offend each other. People will disagree publicly. People will protest. People will campaign against opposing ideologies. People will make fun of each other.

For free speech to survive, easily offended people have to be able to deal with offense without resorting to *mass murder*.

The Muslim cop shot in the Charlie Hebdo offices clearly understood this.

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-14-15 07:38 AM

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70. "Wow what a glorious spectacular way to fall apart and catch and L. "
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

There is absolutely no basis for drawing a distinction between the Fundamental Christians outrage against Homosexuality and the Islamic prohibition against depict the prophet, especially as you try to apply it to people who don't practice your faith.

You know it's true which is why you didn't respond with a logic thoughtful argument but instead went into name calling.

The fact that you responded so angrily is proof enough of the indefensible of your position.


And yes you can call me names and I think you were trying to offend me but it really just makes my point because of all the possible reactions I could have, Killing you is not one of them. For "civilized" (for lack of a better word) people it never is.


RE: Lol if you wanna keep thinking like an idiot ok.
>Btw comparing Christians and a rule that has no fundamental
>purpose to their ideology to Muslim's and their God is fucking
>laughable. I don't know what's funnier the fact that was an
>actual thought from your stupid brain that came out of your
>stupid mouth or the fact you typed that and probably had all
>this pride hitting the "send" button like you actually had a
>decent point. It was cute how extremely of a dumb fuck of a
>fuck you are..like when a child does something its supposed to
>do but you congratulate them anyways because you forgot they
>are 3 and stupid lol
>
>Dont take offence to any of this tho...u know. Freedom of
>speech and all.
>
>
>____
>
>TWITTER : Heinz21st
>
>IG : H_N_Z


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:09 PM

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141. "RE: Wow what a glorious spectacular way to fall apart and catch and L. "
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

it was a good point you made and he sounds like a dickhead with that reply.

where do we draw the line at what "offends" people? especially to do with religions and all the crazy, demented rules they have?

plus, if it offends you, nobody is forcing you to read it or look at it. we're offended by these islamic murderers who'll kill because of a cartoon.

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
43076 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 05:12 PM

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187. "Actually, you don't. "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

If anything, this is more an example of trolling with terrorism than the freedom of speech side.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Tue Jan-13-15 05:49 PM

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8. "they almost had to at this point."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12865 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 05:55 PM

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10. "So I'm assuming his head is *supposed* to look like a dick?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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DanSpeak
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Wed Jan-14-15 01:01 PM

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128. "^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 10


          


I noticed that too. Wondered if it was just me.

https://twitter.com/DJDanSpeak

https://soundcloud.com/dan-speak/the-voyage-mix?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter

  

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The Letter L
Member since Apr 21st 2008
590 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 06:07 PM

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11. "Its my right to wear a red shirt whenever I feel like it, right?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But if I wear that red shirt while going thru a known Crip neighborhood
should I be considered brave & courageous?
or should I be considered stupid & naive?
or should I take off the red shirt & assure I live to see another day?

"and there's your L" - pat sajak

  

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makaveli
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Tue Jan-13-15 06:13 PM

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13. "no, you do not have the right to wear a red shirt"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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22. "This analogy is so dumb because the question is what world do you"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

want to live in?

If you want to live in a world where you can get killed for wearing red then you support bloods who kill people for wearing red.

If you want to live in a world where people can wear whatever color they want then you support those people who try to change the rules regarding what color you can wear in the blood hood.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4590 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 08:55 PM

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38. "Well..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

If you decided to wear the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood, then you better be willing to die for that shit. And you better hope your sacrifice inspires others to fight for it. I don't know much about them Charlie cats, but from what I've seen from them (not much admittedly) I really don't think they were about this "freedom of speech" fight and were just trying to sell magazines instead.

It ain't that much different from white people pulling pranks in the hood that'll intentionally get them beat the fuck up for views.I hope people didn't die for some bullshit like that.

  

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The Letter L
Member since Apr 21st 2008
590 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 10:40 PM

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40. "somethings are worth dying for, somethings arent"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

a silly cartoon?

nope

"and there's your L" - pat sajak

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:43 AM

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50. "It was her fault because she wore a short skirt."
In response to Reply # 11
Wed Jan-14-15 04:44 AM by TheAlbionist

  

          

Victim blaming is not the answer here. If you got killed for wearing a red shirt in a gang neighbourhood, you may well be 'guilty' of naivety, but naivety isn't a crime.

MURDER is a crime in all senses of the word. The people who made a conscious decision to murder would clearly be the ones in the wrong.

If you think long and hard enough about anything moral you can make it confusing enough to produce any result... but the common sense answers to all this are pretty obvious. Storming ANY civilian building and opening fire is wrong and the fault lies with the gunmen. Period. I don't give a fuck if they ran cartoons of Mohammed assfucking your Dad.

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Tue Jan-13-15 06:10 PM

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12. "Stupid asses. Not a surprise though."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-13-15 06:11 PM by BlassFemur

  

          

not sure why they don't just leave that shit alone. I'm not seeing what anyone gains from this.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Tue Jan-13-15 06:23 PM

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16. "you dont?"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

You dont see the PR/propaganda implications of the appearance of CH having been intimidated?

Honestly?

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Tue Jan-13-15 06:34 PM

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17. "RE: you dont?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>You dont see the PR/propaganda implications of the appearance
>of CH having been intimidated?
>
>Honestly?

I sure don't.

So they print the magazine and everyone feels like they've accomplished something. Now what?

And the flip-side to this move is, what if it triggers yet another attack and more people are killed? Again, is this shit worth it in the end?

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
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53. "You don't think giving in would send a "This worked!" message?!"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

If a publication backs down after suffering an attack like this, the only message sent is that these sort of attacks can be successful in the future.

Running a cover featuring Mohammed shows that the terrorists have achieved nothing and shouldn't bother trying this sort of approach again.

It all seems pretty simple.

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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Mahogany
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60. "this is laughable "
In response to Reply # 53


  

          


>Running a cover featuring Mohammed shows that the terrorists
>have achieved nothing and shouldn't bother trying this sort of
>approach again.
>
>It all seems pretty simple

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"Im just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
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61. "Why so? Care to expand?"
In response to Reply # 60
Wed Jan-14-15 06:22 AM by TheAlbionist

  

          

I'm obviously missing something, because it seems simple from here. You don't change your behaviour due to bullying or the bullies win... isn't that taught in every playground?

>
>>Running a cover featuring Mohammed shows that the terrorists
>>have achieved nothing and shouldn't bother trying this sort
>of
>>approach again.
>>
>>It all seems pretty simple
>

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9764 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 07:11 AM

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66. "Agreed"
In response to Reply # 60


          

>
>>Running a cover featuring Mohammed shows that the terrorists
>>have achieved nothing and shouldn't bother trying this sort
>of
>>approach again.
>>
>>It all seems pretty simple
>

I have no idea why/how this will "teach" the terorists that they have achieved nothing and shouldn't bother trying again, as if this REALLY is some conspiracy to silence free speech, as if that is the core issue. If anything, the terrorists are trolling the satirists to publish more stuff like this so that they can show their power. Meanwhile, more showcases of terorist strength will lead to more racism, "us vs. them" and finger-pointing towards Islam which in turn will lead to more radicalized muslims capable of doing stuff like this.

Again, why *consciously* feed the cycle when you have the choice *and* power not to? I could care less about the free speech aspect and principles and rights... This is reality

  

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SoWhat
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67. "hello."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 10:18 AM

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109. "because the 1% profit immensely from all of this"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

That's the only real reason to keep it going. Rich Europeans and Arabs will make huge money off the media attention, weapons sold (on both sides), and even increased readership of CH. Most of us loose in this, but a very very small percentage of us actually have something to gain.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Wed Jan-14-15 11:36 AM

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117. "right."
In response to Reply # 66


          

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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122. "The whole "We'll show them" attitude just points to the inability..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

to put the whole situation into context. If it wasn't so sad it would definitely be laughable.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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MiQL
Member since Sep 03rd 2002
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:58 PM

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169. "^^^ Right here "
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

"a little air restriction ain't hurt nobody." - BSR

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Wed Jan-14-15 12:25 PM

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121. "RE: You don't think giving in would send a "This worked!" message?!"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>If a publication backs down after suffering an attack like
>this, the only message sent is that these sort of attacks can
>be successful in the future.
>
>Running a cover featuring Mohammed shows that the terrorists
>have achieved nothing and shouldn't bother trying this sort of
>approach again.
>
>It all seems pretty simple.

Yeah, because I'm sure their end game was ONLY to stop them from printing that one publication. It has nothing to do with the overall climate in the country.

This is why this whole situation is stupid as fuck. People can't even put shit into context. It's boiling down to free speech, taking a stand, not being a coward and all this other nonsense.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 08:27 PM

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26. "they do it to push the limits on france's freedom of speech"
In response to Reply # 12
Tue Jan-13-15 08:32 PM by ndibs

          

laws. france has laws against hate speech. these cartoons challenge the establishments laws. they've been sued several times. so they continue to do these dumb cartoons to challenge those laws. in the U.S. where you can say whatever you want, we don't have anyone that feels it's important to push limits like this.

  

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SoWhat
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14. "< -- not Charlie."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


fuck you.

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Tue Jan-13-15 09:51 PM

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39. "me neither..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

and Charles is my middle name

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Wed Jan-14-15 12:01 AM

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43. "fuck charlie"
In response to Reply # 14


          

  

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Airbreed
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93. "double fuck charlie."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 06:18 PM

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15. "Moves and counter moves now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43061 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 06:39 PM

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18. "from 60k units to 3 milly. Hmmmm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

illiuminati sacraficial conspiracy theorists?

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 08:07 PM

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23. "Anything is possible"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Khalil19
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24. "If they're willing to deal with the reactions..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm on the side of free speech but you must understand that closed minds could give a fuck about free speech. They will MURDER you...
I don't see that changing as a reaction by the "extremist"!












You don't impress me!!




RIP Reggie...I love you!! http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb449/Mynewstuff2011/RegLover.jpg



http://penilegenius.tumblr.com/

  

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Vex_id
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25. "They shouldn't be bullied into silencing their mode of expression."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don't support the publication's content, but I do support their universal right of freedom of expression.

It's interesting --- the "Je ne suis pas Charlie" camp who blames the victim here are similar to those who donned their "I can breathe" shirts and annoyingly hash tagged the #AllLivesMatter motto in refusal to acknowledge the fact that police brutality is a reality that disproportionately affects young black men.

You did not need to approve of the way Mike Brown robbed and physically assaulted a store owner to defend his right to live. You did not need to condone Eric Garner’s sale of loosie cigarettes to rally against the atrocity that resulted in his life being taken. Alike, it is not a requirement that you endorse Charlie Abdo’s mockery of religion in order to support its right to unabridged, open expression without the threat of being assassinated for it.

People tend to stand firm a principle - as long as it's about their 'team.'

-->

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Tue Jan-13-15 08:29 PM

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27. "they don't have a universal right to freedom of expression"
In response to Reply # 25
Tue Jan-13-15 08:31 PM by ndibs

          

in france. so the analogies don't work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France#Freedom_of_the_press

Freedom of the press
The Law on the Freedom of the Press of 29 July 1881 guarantees freedom of the press, subject to several prohibitions. Article 24 prohibits anyone from publicly inciting another to discriminate against, or to hate or to harm, a person or a group for belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or for having a handicap. The penalty for violating this prohibition is up to a year of imprisonment and a fine of up to €45,000, or either one of those, as well as the suspension of some civil rights in some cases.
Articles 32 and 33 prohibit anyone from publicly defaming or insulting a person or group for belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or for having a handicap. The penalty for defamation is up to a year of imprisonment and a fine of up to €45,000, or either one of those punishments. The penalty for insult is up to six months of imprisonment and a fine of up to €22,500, or either one of those punishments.
La loi du 29 juillet 1881 allows the public prosecutor to initiate criminal proceedings against a violator of the law either upon the complaint of a victim or upon his own initiative. A victim may choose to undertake a civil action against a violator. Such a civil action must obey rules prescribed for a criminal proceeding, and a court may assess both civil damages and criminal penalties at the same time. Article 48-1 permits civil-rights organizations to seek damages for violations of the law.

  

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Vex_id
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28. "France doesn't have jurisdiction over the Universe."
In response to Reply # 27


          



-->

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Tue Jan-13-15 08:40 PM

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31. "no shit we're talking about france..."
In response to Reply # 28


          

  

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Vex_id
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32. "where did I cite "french law" ?"
In response to Reply # 31


          

right.

-->

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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35. "you didn't. that was your error."
In response to Reply # 32


          

>right.
>
>-->

  

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Vex_id
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36. "Let me help you out."
In response to Reply # 35


          

Article 19 - Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

-----

Also - France isn't stopping their freedom of expression. It's true that there is no carte-blanche freedom of speech in France (nor is there in America) - as it is illegal to deny the holocaust in France. That said - the Universal Declaration of Human Rights encompasses an over-arching principle - which is why I specifically cited it - and not French law.

-->

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Tue Jan-13-15 08:32 PM

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29. "Well said"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Hopefully they can protect their staff and offices better in the day/years to come. That's my only concern-- being responsible for your employees.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Vex_id
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34. "RE: Well said"
In response to Reply # 29


          

>Hopefully they can protect their staff and offices better in
>the day/years to come. That's my only concern-- being
>responsible for your employees.

They are knowingly taking a risk by continuing w/ their expression, but they
are of course now bolstered by massive security forces.

-->

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Tue Jan-13-15 08:48 PM

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37. "Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. "
In response to Reply # 25
Tue Jan-13-15 08:49 PM by Heinz

  

          

Thats not what is under attack lol Universal respect is. As much as they have the freedom to express themselves their content is a reason to be punched in the face lol It goes hand in hand when being disrespectful to people. Let's not act like there arent comedians who know how to offend in a smart and respectful way. It's done all the time. My suggestion is if they wanna keep doing the content they do....be funnier and smarter. You can only tell someone to fuck off so many times.

*shrugs*


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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56. "RE: They shouldn't be bullied into silencing their mode of expression."
In response to Reply # 25


          

That's the most fucked up half-brained ass analogy possible.

There is no deep sentiment in saying your shouldn't get killed for what you write. That's obvious.

I ain't charlie because I ain't part of an oppressor class that only defends my right to offend and bully the oppressed.

To try and draw a parallel between those saying "I don't ride for racism and xenophobia" (which is the crux of most of the fuck Charlie crew) and those who blindly support the state sponsored murders of black people is lazy as fuck, offensive as hell, and mighty white of you.

  

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Vex_id
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71. "RE: They shouldn't be bullied into silencing their mode of expression."
In response to Reply # 56


          

i'm glad you got upset --- it was addressed to those who only see
through racial lenses.


-->

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15964 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 08:45 AM

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82. "You're profoundly simple. "
In response to Reply # 71


          

  

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Vex_id
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201. "neat. "
In response to Reply # 82


          


-->

  

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illegal
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78381 posts
Tue Jan-13-15 08:33 PM

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30. "JESUS, CHARLIE."
In response to Reply # 0


          

***
when I come around, they frown
then wanna dap me down
but when I leave?

  

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guru0509
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Tue Jan-13-15 11:04 PM

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41. "theyre gonna be selling like 50 cent mixtapes in the early aughts"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-13-15 11:04 PM by guru0509

  

          

nm

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 12:33 AM

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44. "I'm fucking sick and tired of the term "respect" being thrown around"
In response to Reply # 0


          

by the people using it, be they police, religious extremists, etc when what they really mean is "fear".

You better respect us = You bette fear us

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jan-14-15 12:41 AM

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45. "BOOM! (c) John Madden"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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46. "LMAO. no."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

I'm tired of idiots being fearful of showing a little respect to other human beings because you dont agree with their ideology lol You afraid of being a nice person? *shrugs*


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 09:43 AM

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101. "as much as Charlie has a right to put out their images"
In response to Reply # 46
Wed Jan-14-15 09:43 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

those are not nice images and they are pretty blatant ethnic caricatures. I'm offended by them and I'm not even Muslim or Semitic/Arab.

So that fear of being "nice" statement is kinda horseshit.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 05:09 AM

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51. "i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey being mad about being asked to"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

respect the concerns/feelings of non-white ppl who happen to comprise disenfranchised minority populations in Europe and North America.

i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey conflating this request w/the terror threats levied by an overwhelmingly minority of the minority populations of Europe and North America.

i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey acting like they've never heard the phrase 'w/great power comes great responsibility'.

i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey going on and on about 'rights' and 'freedom of expression' as if any of the rest of us disagree about that shit.

i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey acting brand new as if the 'right' to 'freedom of expression' means ppl NEVER self-censor when we all know that shit ain't true b/c if it were then whitey would call me 'nigger' and 'faggot' much more often.

i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey acting like some freedom is compromised if whitey self-censors not in response to threats but out of respect for the feelings of ppl who whitey steps on day in and day out and has for decades if not centuries w/no sign of easing the fuck up.

i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey.

fuck you.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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57. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 51


          

  

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Mahogany
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62. "thank you"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

I'm really shocked at the # of minorities that think this is ok.

Like I said on fb. Their issue isn't with Muslims it's with a very specific group of people. How that in turn makes it ok to offend all Muslims idk

It totally makes whatever point they're trying to make worthless and brings them to the level of the same terrorists that think they are one upping (which is just stupid as hell. talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight...or in this case a sheet of paper)

Imo it's not about them not wanting to let the terrorists win as it is them just being entitled and ignorant as all hell

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"Im just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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Vex_id
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72. "lol - this is what some of y'all really just want to say:"
In response to Reply # 51


          


>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey.

and that's fine. Now we're getting somewhere w/ the open honesty.

but lol @ trying to couch it in a long-winded analysis.

You really just don't fuck w/ whitey. Bet.


-->

  

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kevlar skully
Member since Mar 13th 2007
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Wed Jan-14-15 08:10 AM

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74. "I mean, he gave good reasons why; you just dismissed them..."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

Which I guess you're supposed to do to help maintain the status quo...


It wasn't like, "I don't fuck with white people" as much as "I sick & tired of this white surpmacist culture" but go head

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 08:13 AM

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75. "Now if only the French would admit their obvious hatred for non-whites"
In response to Reply # 72
Wed Jan-14-15 08:14 AM by SoWhat

  

          

we can get this race war on and popping. Bc that's what Charlie's Muhammad cartoons are really about. Yeah yeah, they go @ xtians too. But the Muhammad cartoons happened within the context of larger anti-Arab and anti-African sentiment generally and help to feed it. Charlie is clearly not concerned with that or supports it. And plenty of the Je Suis crowd does too. But right now they lack the courage of their conviction. They won't just come out and say they want Europe for the Europeans (aka white ppl) so instead they resort to throwing passive aggressive bullshit stones and hide their hands behind freedom of expression. They want to drive the Arabs and Africans out while still being the Good Guys. When they're ready to be real it'll be on and popping.

The other side of this, of course, is that the radical Arabs and Africans love this cartoon foolishness. That new Charlie mag is like the greatest ISIS and Al Qaeda recruitment pamphlet ever. Publishing it in the name of freedom plays right into their hands - as does the general anti-Arab and African sentiment. The harder whitey steps on the neck of Arabs and Africans in the name of freedom, the more radicals will be born. It's a perfect storm.

It's high time for the race war. It's coming.

fuck you.

  

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Vex_id
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200. "you do realize that you're using "they" with reckless abandon, right?"
In response to Reply # 75


          

there is no monolithic french "white" viewpoint. You have hard line right xenophobia,
you have hard line left socialists - and a wide spectrum of political theory in between
and beyond those paradigms. Alike, there is no monolithic french-muslim view - there
have been well documented responses that span the gamut in terms of perspective on this issue.

I mean - i get it. It's fun to placate generalizations around and get rowdy for the low-hanging fruit - but this debate is begging for nuance that you could give it.

But as it pertains to the hard-line Le Pen xenophobe faction -- yes, I agree. What they - and all French white nationalists don't understand - is that you can't just engage in colonial projects and then expect not to deal with the emergence of multiculturalism at your own doorstep - and the manner in which they are flunking on integrating a respectful culture is disastrous - but that's just one faction in France - and you know it.


-->

  

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SoWhat
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202. "Sure, fella."
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

fuck you.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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207. "they seemed pretty united at that march"
In response to Reply # 200


          

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Wed Jan-14-15 08:28 AM

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79. "cmon, Vex. His statement was HIGHLY qualified."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

there are tons of white people out there who aren't about the bullshit.

But "whitey" aka "whiteness" aka "the abstract White European power structure" is largely about the bullshit and hides behind easily digestible bullshit to justify the bullshit so they sound reasonable.

really, what kind of "tyranny" are Muslims in France or elsewhere where Muslims are not the majority imposing to receive this kind of satire?

*taps foot like Sonic The Hedgehog*

CMON

  

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SoWhat
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81. "yup. whitey != all white ppl."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

You nailed it.

fuck you.

  

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lfresh
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171. "lol!"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          


>*taps foot like Sonic The Hedgehog*

i'm using this
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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180. "WHAT??? How DARE you speak of context??? FREE SPEEEEEECH"
In response to Reply # 79


          

>really, what kind of "tyranny" are Muslims in France or
>elsewhere where Muslims are not the majority imposing to
>receive this kind of satire?
>
>*taps foot like Sonic The Hedgehog*
>
>CMON

  

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Atillah Moor
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Wed Jan-14-15 10:29 AM

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112. "lol 'some?' We are all sick of Whitey Ford's Blues"
In response to Reply # 72
Wed Jan-14-15 10:34 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

I don't think anyone is hiding that. I dare say the average black person-- if given the means, would take themselves and their family out of here faster than you could say "middle passage".

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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73. "Aw, you are so cute when you're mad."
In response to Reply # 51
Wed Jan-14-15 08:12 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

It's about violence being a trump card and I'd feel EXACTLY the same if the shoe were on the other foot. I got into this one day with a professor (also Jewish) who was presenting white supremacist rallies in Chicago as an example of speech that should be chilled, essentially, and later debating whether or not Al Qaeda and the like should have their messages broadcast on U.S. TV.

The bottom line to me is that there should be a very free exchange of ideas and that goes to the ideas I don't agree with. To be honest I haven't even seen the majority of the Charlie cartoons. I don't have to. They could be totally reprehensible. They have a right to exist and so do the people who made them, and I'm certainly not sympathizing with murderers (and their sympathizers) over someone who's simply an asshole or a bigot.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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SoWhat
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77. "bitch, I'm always cute."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

>It's about violence being a trump card and I'd feel EXACTLY
>the same if the shoe were on the other foot. I got into this
>one day with a professor (also Jewish) who was presenting
>white supremacist rallies in Chicago as an example of speech
>that should be chilled, essentially, and later debating
>whether or not Al Qaeda and the like should have their
>messages broadcast on U.S. TV.
>
>The bottom line to me is that there should be a very free
>exchange of ideas and that goes to the ideas I don't agree
>with. To be honest I haven't even seen the majority of the
>Charlie cartoons. I don't have to. They could be totally
>reprehensible. They have a right to exist and so do the people
>who made them, and I'm certainly not sympathizing with
>murderers (and their sympathizers) over someone who's simply
>an asshole or a bigot.

fuck you.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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78. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

seriously though i would not personally antagonize someone or make light of their beliefs but then again i am not a satirist and my decisions don't go for everyone.

overall i am glad you are coming to terms with the driving force at the center of your anger. being sick of whitey. a rather understandable position.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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91. "Go after the whitey power structure then, Killing Cartoonist doesn't fur..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

your cause.

if they stormed French Government buildings and started shooting people up, this would be an entirely different conversation.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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92. "*pats head*"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

though i have said **********************REPEATEDLY*************************** that i find the attacks on the magazine to be vile, abhorrent, reprehensible, ill-advised, awful, bad, wrong, et al i guess i still need to issue that disclaimer every time i say anything even remotely critical of whitey or Charlie during these discussions b/c ppl like you will try me w/this kind of bullshit.

i get it. you're dense. i know.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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105. "This remarkably sounds like every rape convo ever had on these boards"
In response to Reply # 92
Wed Jan-14-15 09:56 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

Like how after offering many similar disclaimers about rape being vile, abhorrent, reprehensible, ill-advised, awful, bad, wrong, et al but then brings up the notion that women shouldn't drink too much around dudes they don't know or the fact that false rape accusations do occur, the conversation quickly becomes emotionally heated and folks get call rape apologists, charged with victim blaming and people often argue that it is inappropriate to bring up those ancillary issues.

The parallels are interesting. Not sure why I brought it up because I definitely don't want the conversation to veer into that but it is interesting to be on the other side of that argument.

That's all.

I think we've hit a wall.

I would say that from my experience probably the most effective way to address the topic of the plight of oppressed Muslims in france would be to start another post.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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155. "yes, we have."
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

>I think we've hit a wall.

so, let's not.

fuck you.

  

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Airbreed
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94. "***STANDING O***"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:48 AM

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104. "claps to this..."
In response to Reply # 51


          

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:52 AM

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106. "http://images.cpcache.com/merchandise/514_400x400_NoPeel.jpg?region=name..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

http://images.cpcache.com/merchandise/514_400x400_NoPeel.jpg?region=name:FrontCenter,id:27721588,w:16

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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116. "BTW, how does Boko Haram fit into all this?"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

How are they a reaction to Whitey?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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125. "jesus."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Hitokiri
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129. "You know how they fit in? Because they killed 2000 black people"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

and no media outlet gives a shit.
12 white people died and world leaders come together to hold a bullshit ass march.

That's how Boko Haram is tied to white supremacy.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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kinetic20
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133. "^"
In response to Reply # 129


          

i mean i give a fck but i don't give that much of a fck

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jan-14-15 01:03 PM

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131. "ush, doing too much now."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Hitokiri
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130. "Say it again."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

All of this.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Wed Jan-14-15 01:17 PM

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132. "RE: i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey being mad about being asked to"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>respect the concerns/feelings of non-white ppl who happen to
>comprise disenfranchised minority populations in Europe and
>North America.
>
>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey conflating this request
>w/the terror threats levied by an overwhelmingly minority of
>the minority populations of Europe and North America.
>
>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey acting like they've never
>heard the phrase 'w/great power comes great responsibility'.
>
>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey going on and on about
>'rights' and 'freedom of expression' as if any of the rest of
>us disagree about that shit.
>
>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey acting brand new as if
>the 'right' to 'freedom of expression' means ppl NEVER
>self-censor when we all know that shit ain't true b/c if it
>were then whitey would call me 'nigger' and 'faggot' much more
>often.
>
>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey acting like some freedom
>is compromised if whitey self-censors not in response to
>threats but out of respect for the feelings of ppl who whitey
>steps on day in and day out and has for decades if not
>centuries w/no sign of easing the fuck up.
>
>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey.

Agreed

And the only thing worse than all that is black folks swooping in cosigning it, like we always seem to do.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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176. "so pretty much fuck anyone who disagrees with you. got it."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Wed Jan-14-15 05:34 PM

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192. "RE: so pretty much fuck anyone who disagrees with you. got it."
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

>so pretty much fuck anyone who disagrees with you. got it.<

Correct!

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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kinetic20
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134. "nailing it"
In response to Reply # 51


          


>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey acting like some freedom
>is compromised if whitey self-censors not in response to
>threats but out of respect for the feelings of ppl who whitey
>steps on day in and day out and has for decades if not
>centuries w/no sign of easing the fuck up.
>
>i'm fucking sick and tired of whitey.

i mean i give a fck but i don't give that much of a fck

  

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buffalosoul
Member since Feb 17th 2004
885 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 05:19 PM

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189. "How come you know so much about French race relations?"
In response to Reply # 51


          

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Wed Jan-14-15 06:43 AM

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63. "Not to sound ignorant but I thought that was Osama not Muhammad"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've seen many more images of Muhammad that don't look like that depiction. Interesting what they chose

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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89. "^^good point. I thought M was...rounder. "
In response to Reply # 63


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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8-bit
Member since Jan 12th 2010
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Wed Jan-14-15 08:14 AM

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76. "Does France really have "Freedom of Speech?""
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-14-15 08:15 AM by 8-bit

  

          

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious_symbols_in_schools
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France


Those are just off the top of my head. I don't know if calling this a freedom of speech issue is the right thing. More like not giving into terrorists, like Buddy_Gilapagos said in post #5.




R.I.P. to the shooting victims. Hope violence doesn't spread over there.

---
http://twitter.com/logicalhood
http://instagram.com/hoodlogic

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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83. "You could post those sorts of links in the U.S., too"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

Not all speech is unprotected unequivocally anywhere.

And again this goes beyond free speech into personal security.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:10 AM

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85. "No you can't. Not like that..."
In response to Reply # 83


          

Off the top of my head.

There was a french blogger sued because her restaurant review was showing up to high in google and they made her pay damages and alter the review.

They've straight up banned pro Palestinian protests in Paris.

They're on a completely different level.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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90. "You know, I was thinking someone would bring this up a looong time ago. "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

It really is the best counter-argument.

I think the short answer is yes they do, but it isn't the exact same as American Freedom of Speech. In fact, no other country in the world has the robust laws protecting speech the way the US does. That doesn't mean that they don't have a similar concept of "free speech".

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Government Name
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80. "zzzzzzzzzzzz..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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95. "Damn some of y'all got some low ass opinions of Muslims. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If I went down to Mississippi and shot up the office of a stormfront, Klan or Neo-Nazi publication that had a circulation of 60,000 y'all would all agree that I was crazy.

Yet when these cats shoot up Charlie Hebdo which only has a 60k yall want to depict them as freedom fighters.

Again, if this is about a oppressed minority fighting back then I would say if they shot up government buildings or whoever was more directly involved with oppressing them then we would be having an entirely different conversation.

But they shot up some cartoonists yo.


At this point I am less interest in hearing what the libtards have to say on this and really want to hear from an honest to god OKP Muslim speak on this and hear if they think the gunman's reaction was a good ideal or even understandable.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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96. "my GOD. "
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

LOL

fuck you.

  

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Mahogany
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:41 AM

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100. "those shooters don't represent all muslims"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

Most people aren't defending the shooters (who btw are dead). If this were just about them then it should be over all things considered right?

You shooting up a kkk office and them then turning around and taking it out on ALL Black people would be an issue for most which is exactly what is happening here.


>If I went down to Mississippi and shot up the office of a
>stormfront, Klan or Neo-Nazi publication that had a
>circulation of 60,000 y'all would all agree that I was crazy.
>
>
>Yet when these cats shoot up Charlie Hebdo which only has a
>60k yall want to depict them as freedom fighters.
>
>Again, if this is about a oppressed minority fighting back
>then I would say if they shot up government buildings or
>whoever was more directly involved with oppressing them then
>we would be having an entirely different conversation.
>
>But they shot up some cartoonists yo.
>
>
>At this point I am less interest in hearing what the libtards
>have to say on this and really want to hear from an honest to
>god OKP Muslim speak on this and hear if they think the
>gunman's reaction was a good ideal or even understandable.
>
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"Im just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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110. "I don't disagree with what you said but I don't think it was responsive"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

to what I said.

RE: those shooters don't represent all muslims

I agree. Don't think I said otherwise.


>Most people aren't defending the shooters (who btw are dead).

Some people seem to be saying they "understand" the response.


>If this were just about them then it should be over all things
>considered right?

I don't know.

>
>You shooting up a kkk office and them then turning around and
>taking it out on ALL Black people would be an issue for most
>which is exactly what is happening here.

Yep. that's a reason why it's a bad idea.


>
>>If I went down to Mississippi and shot up the office of a
>>stormfront, Klan or Neo-Nazi publication that had a
>>circulation of 60,000 y'all would all agree that I was
>crazy.
>>
>>
>>Yet when these cats shoot up Charlie Hebdo which only has a
>>60k yall want to depict them as freedom fighters.
>>
>>Again, if this is about a oppressed minority fighting back
>>then I would say if they shot up government buildings or
>>whoever was more directly involved with oppressing them then
>>we would be having an entirely different conversation.
>>
>>But they shot up some cartoonists yo.
>>
>>
>>At this point I am less interest in hearing what the
>libtards
>>have to say on this and really want to hear from an honest
>to
>>god OKP Muslim speak on this and hear if they think the
>>gunman's reaction was a good ideal or even understandable.
>>
>>
>>
>>**********
>>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>>
>>http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 09:59 AM

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107. "Buddy I'll be real with you"
In response to Reply # 95
Wed Jan-14-15 09:59 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

>If I went down to Mississippi and shot up the office of a
>stormfront, Klan or Neo-Nazi publication that had a
>circulation of 60,000 y'all would all agree that I was crazy.
>
I would have your picture on my wall

Assuming you survived I would find any and every opportunity to say "Free Buddy"

I would maybe say you were crazy, but your heart was in the right place

I would at worse say "he should have been smarter about how he carried out his actions"

but that's just me

The rest of you point is quite valid. As far as we know they weren't freedom fighters and they shot up some racist cartoonists. If they were aligned with a resistance effort we could argue on the validity of going after soft targets, guerrilla tactics vs conventional, etc., but that isn't the case.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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111. "I mean John Brown, Nat Turner are heroes to me. "
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

Because they went after the power structure.

But going after people who ultimately don't have any power over you is a waste of time tactically and bad strategy.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Atillah Moor
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114. "KKK is part of the power structure though"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

A number of police were and I'd assume still are in some way members. So much so that a law had to be passed "preventing" police from being active members. David Duke is a great example of the ties to the power structure in that respect. Also it was started by former Confederate soldiers. They use(d) violence in the form of what we now call terrorist tactics to carry out their agenda. So they are certainly worthy of an entirely equal response even to this day if you ask me.

Maybe they aren't the best example in this case. Going after say Walt Disney, Warner Brothers, or better yet Robert Crumb or Will Eisner would be more appropriate comparisons.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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115. "KKK these days are a bunch of underemployed highschool drop outs "
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

with no real power.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Atillah Moor
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Wed Jan-14-15 11:39 AM

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118. "I don't buy it and I don't give em' a pass"
In response to Reply # 115
Wed Jan-14-15 11:39 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

They could be a bunch of grandmas knitting swastikas and confederate flags for all I care. They still carry the weight of their wrongs IMO and deserve to have their actions repaid with interest. No organization like that should be above the law. Meanwhile most of the Black Panther Party leadership is dead, exiled, or in jail right?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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127. "Suit yourself but I don't believe in GIVING certain people power over me"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

The people who sign my checks, hire me, decide what schools I can go to. They have power over me. If they are being racists they should be called out and dealt with.

I can't be concerned that two randys sitting on the back of truck want to call me the n word.

If anyone of those losers can send me into a murderous rage then they would have significant power over me.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Atillah Moor
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136. "It's not about giving power it's about balancing the scales"
In response to Reply # 127
Wed Jan-14-15 01:41 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

Especially when the so called "law" is implicit in said scales being unbalanced.

I'm not saying your view is wrong-- I'm just more Daniel Day Lewis while you're a little more Tim Robbins on the subject. Both are great actors with different approaches to the craft.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Wed Jan-14-15 11:39 AM

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119. "who said they were freedom fighters? "
In response to Reply # 95


          

  

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blackrussian
Member since Oct 17th 2010
6498 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 05:56 PM

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195. "what?!"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          


>At this point I am less interest in hearing what the libtards
>have to say on this and really want to hear from an honest to
>god OKP Muslim speak on this and hear if they think the
>gunman's reaction was a good ideal or even understandable.

  

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rzaroch36
Member since Jan 26th 2005
2460 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 09:43 AM

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102. "http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/charlie-hebdo-france-satire-te..."
In response to Reply # 0


          


http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/charlie-hebdo-france-satire-terrorism-understanding/Grantland logo

CHARLIE HEBDO

‘Je Suis Charlie’ and Where We Go From Here

We all know how it goes with modern atrocities. Every blood puddle gets turned into a Rorschach blot. The way it’s interpreted is guaranteed to expose unconscious (or even conscious) special pleading at best, and an agenda in search of opportunities at worst. Last week, all that happened like clockwork.

BY TOM CARSON ON JANUARY 13, 2015
Tribute To Charlie Hebdo At French Embassy In Buenos Aires
In photographs, the staff of Charlie Hebdo who got massacred in Paris last Wednesday looks like a happy crew. The atmosphere of exhilarated, jauntily scruffy mischief-making is familiar to me from my own alt-weekly days, and the feeling of intimacy was unsettling.

Outright identification would have been asinine, of course. No publication I worked for ever got firebombed, as Charlie Hebdo’s office was in 2011 for the effrontery of depicting the Prophet Muhammad while making him a guest editor — let alone carried on undeterred afterward, with results that we all now know. All the same, it was easy for me to imagine — or think I could imagine, anyhow — what editor-in-chief Stéphane “Charb” Charbonnier and his colleagues who were also killed might have been like as individuals: their mannerisms, their jokes. I got upset at how quickly their deaths were depersonalized in the worldwide media scrum.

And so what? I might as well have kicked off a take on the 2005 London subway bombings by saying, “My god, I’ve ridden subways!” Or in this case, gone on about my incredulity at such a thing happening in Paris and not some other world capital whose history, language, and other tourist attractions I’m less smitten with.

But we all know how it goes with modern atrocities. Every blood puddle gets turned into a Rorschach blot. The way it’s interpreted is guaranteed to expose unconscious (or even conscious) special pleading at best, and an agenda in search of opportunities at worst. Last week, all of that happened like clockwork.

For starters: Yes, media outlets in Western democracies do react differently to horrors like this when members of our own guild are the targets. Also when they happen in France and not, say, Somalia — where a dozen journalists were killed in 2012 alone — and involve Caucasians. Boko Haram, a Muslim militant group, butchered 2,000 people in Nigeria last week — men, women, and children — and it goes without saying that the coverage wasn’t remotely comparable. Because the shock wasn’t comparable. I wouldn’t have insisted on the Nigerian body count’s greater newsworthiness myself. Never mind what that may say about double standards, parochial priorities, or simply being inured to the idea that hell is the norm in some parts of the world. Just not Paris, at least not yet.

♦♦♦

All the same, most Americans aren’t a lot more familiar with French social and cultural constructs than they are with Nigeria’s. (It’s not a sin, just a fact.) Until last week, precious few of us had ever heard of Charlie Hebdo, much less had any notion of the crass and impious journalistic tradition it belongs to. Anticlericalism is virtually France’s other religion — and has been since the Enlightenment, thanks to the Catholic Church’s once state-sanctioned leverage in public life — and the rude mockery known as gouaille, which exults in obscene caricature and take-no-prisoners toilet humor, is to French political and religious satire what guacamole is to the Super Bowl. It doesn’t affect the game’s outcome, but at least you won’t starve.

Indeed, one French blogger made the point that — First Amendment or no First Amendment — a publication like Charlie Hebdo would never be tolerated in the U.S. Not only would Fox News burst a gasket at its blasphemous takes on Christianity, but liberals ready to defend kicking Mike Huckabee in the teeth would change their tune as soon as Judaism or Islam came in for the same treatment. Just imagine the reaction on Stateside college campuses, which can be as hostile to free speech that trespasses on anyone’s sensibilities as any fundamentalist backwater.

(Another measure of the cultural gulf between Paris and New York is a quote from the martyred Charbonnier about Charlie Hebdo’s ambitions as an equal-opportunity offender: “We have to carry on until Islam has been rendered as banal as Catholicism.” Whatever you think of that goal, just try to imagine any U.S. editor choosing that particular adjective to define it. Do you feel uncivilized yet?)

Mass Unity Rally Held In Paris Following Recent Terrorist AttacksChristopher Furlong/Getty Images

The paradox is that, like other European countries, France does have laws against “hate speech” more stringent than anything in place on this side of the Atlantic — and their applicability keeps getting broadened, too. An American version of Charlie Hebdo would likely fold in the face of cultural opprobrium, sure. But it wouldn’t risk being charged with a crime, which the French one not infrequently did.

Among the other ominous absurdities noted in an op-ed piece by law professor Jonathan Turley in last Friday’s Washington Post, actress (and octogenarian head case) Brigitte Bardot has been convicted and fined several times for making anti-Muslim remarks — once in a letter to Nicolas Sarkozy, who later became the French president. Imagining something similar happening to Rush Limbaugh may be fun, but we’re lucky it can’t and won’t. Loathing hate speech is one thing, but any time criminalizing it starts sounding like a dandy idea to you, remember — among other things — that you won’t be the one to define what it is.

Because the possible murder of 17 people, including the hostages killed in later standoffs, wasn’t on anyone’s radar, politicians and professional bloviators across the spectrum both here and in Europe became free-speech champions overnight. But that didn’t stop plenty of them from hastening to put daylight between the principle they were defending and Charlie Hebdo’s gleefully scurrilous demonstration of how it works in practice. It was an unfortunate side effect: advertising their discomfort with or outright dislike of unfettered speech.

Whenever I caught a gurgle of Olympian throat-clearing in somebody’s condemnation of the killings, I’d brace myself for the first “However,” which usually didn’t take long to show up. Attempts to distinguish between “good” free speech — judicious, responsible free speech that takes care not to insult or abuse anybody, which could make the NyQuil of Obama’s rhetoric seem dangerously exciting — and “bad” free speech are pretty fatuous under any circumstances. But wishing Charlie Hebdo had been a more commendable, less snotty sort of publication brutally misses the point.

Then again, thinking that freedom of speech was what Charb and his colleagues died for could just be the West’s latest romantic fallacy. The day of the attacks, Informed Comment blogger Juan Cole sharply debunked the idea that jihadis really are goaded to murder by offensive cartoons. (In accepting that as their motive, we do give them credit for sincerity, after all.) Cole sees the Charlie Hebdo massacre instead as a bid by Al Qaeda to provoke a crackdown on French Muslims that will escalate their alienation and radicalize them in turn, inflaming the conflict that radical Islamists and anti-Islam jingoes — unlike most of the rest of us, Muslim or not — both want. I’m not sure he’s right, but his analysis is a useful warning against getting misled by sentimentality.

In the meantime, we do have a cause to rally around, no matter how unclear it is what else we’re supposed to do besides rally. The enormous, grieving demonstrations in Paris and other Western capitals were moving and cathartic, but beyond expressing solidarity, what does saying “I am Charlie” mean? It’s not a program, although “What would Charlie do?” might be. The audience that bought tickets on Christmas for The Interview — a movie whose troubles now seem downright larky by comparison — had good reasons to feel proud of itself, and so do the millions who turned out to memorialize the Charlie Hebdo victims. What the effect will be on the policies of Western governments, let alone jihadis, is awfully nebulous.

On the other hand, the practical consequences of the attack itself aren’t hard to predict at all. Media outlets will be even more jittery about producing or even reproducing content that could make them the next target — an anxiety already evident from the many venues that either censored or just refused to publish the Charlie Hebdo cartoons that allegedly provoked the killers, despite their obvious news value. The same politicians now voicing brave boilerplate about our freedoms will go right back to citing “irresponsibility” and “poor judgment” the next time some publication that hasn’t gotten the memo actually does something brave.

The lives of France’s Muslims will get crappier and riskier, and as for France’s Jews, they’re already reportedly emigrating in droves. As for the rest of us, all we’ve learned for sure is the same thing the world’s been teaching us since 9/11: no shelter anywhere.

Tom Carson (@TomCarsonWriter) is the author of Gilligan’s Wake and Daisy Buchanan’s Daughter.

.
*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5P6zdlPJ34&feature=related
^^^ever walked the streets of...

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:44 PM

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167. " France’s Jews, they’re already reportedly emigrating in droves"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

This is a huge take away. Folks don't realize that when they go after Arabs even more so than Blacks-- Jews are next and we know where that can lead.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Jan-14-15 10:50 AM

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113. "I am not Charlie. Swipe."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://commondreams.org/views/2015/01/13/i-will-grieve-i-will-laugh-i-am-not-charlie

I am a satirical writer. On my good days, I find comedy in the contradictions of daily life, using humor to illuminate larger points about race, class, and the undeniable musical genius of Justin Bieber.

So when I heard about last week’s tragic murders at the French satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo, my first reaction was: Oh God, don't let this be real. 



Don't let this disgusting, heartbreaking thing be real. And please don't let this inevitable tragic backlash to Charlie Hebdo be real either.

Which led to my second reaction: Wait. Who the hell is Charlie Hebdo?

As I saw many of my Facebook friends (and even more of my Facebook enemies) taking up the hashtag #JeSuisCharlie, I wondered, Do we really know who we’re claiming solidarity with? Is the enemy of my enemy necessarily my friend? Or is this a situation not of righteous heroes and evil enemies, but bad jokes and even worse policies?

Murder is murder. That line is clear. The attacks on the Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris were murder. We should all grieve the twelve people whose lives were stolen, as well as the four people who were taken hostage and killed at the kosher market. We should also stand against the Islamophobic reaction from Western governments and media, from old douchebags like Rupert Murdoch to young douchebags like Don Lemon.

The definition of murder is clear (to everyone outside of NYPD internal affairs, that is), but other terms are more malleable to political calculations. According to mainstream media, the mass killers in France are “Islamic terrorists,” while the American generals who order drone strikes on children in Pakistan are “heroes of war.” Printing anti-Muslim cartoons is “freedom of speech,” while Holocaust jokes are “unacceptable” to a civilized society.

To which I say, as a Jew: it just depends on the Holocaust joke.

And that gets to the heart of what makes Charlie Hebdo such a problematic hero. Since the attacks, the American media has taken to calling the French publication a “satirical” magazine. To Americans, satire is something that is fun and harmless that you watch at night on Comedy Central. Here’s the thing, though: Charlie Hebdo isn’t the French version of Jon Stewart. It is closer to the bastard lovechild of Bill Maher and Rush Limbaugh, with all of their nastiness and even worse jokes.

In a country (France) and an era (post-9/11) where Muslims face rampant discrimination and often violent exclusion, Charlie Hebdo's cheap shots at Islam added fuel to the racist fire. I understand the desire to make fun of organized religion in all its absurdities, but it's possible to do that without graphic cartoons of Muhammad being sodomized. That's not brilliant satire, that's pornographic hate speech. And I don't know about you, but I prefer my porn without violent hatred.

Of course, the cartoonists at Charlie Hebdo didn't deserve to be killed for their drawings. Not in a million years. But that doesn't mean that what they drew or published was worth defending in its own right. I love free speech as much as anyone, but I can separate the right of people to have free speech with my support for their actual speech. When the ACLU supported the right of neo-Nazis to march through the suburban shtetl of Skokie, IL, they didn't go around saying #IAmHitler.

Let's be fair: Charlie Hebdo isn't the graphic novel version of Mein Kampf. In fact, as much as some of my progressive friends don't want to admit it, it often leans politically more to the left than the right. The magazine ridicules fundamentalism in all forms, from the Pope to ultra-orthodox Jews. It was against the bombing of Gaza. This doesn't mean they're not bigots, it just means they're liberal bigots. (Something that we never have a problem with here in America. Right, Hollywood?)



While Charlie Hebdo mercilessly mocks others, it practices its own religion, a kind of "ultra-secularism" that I sometimes believe in myself. But as we’ve seen with Bill Maher, the problem with ultra-secularism, especially the so-called colorblind version, is that it believes that all targets are equally worthy of derision. And as Saladin Ahmed pointed out, "In a brutally unequal world, satire that mocks everyone equally ends up serving the powerful." (Note the countless presidents and dictators all rushing to march for free speech in Paris, then going home to suppress their own dissidents.)

From Lenny Bruce to Aaron McGruder, the number one rule of political comedy is to punch up. Make fun of the corporate billionaire who owns a golf course on each Hawaiian island -- not the chubby guy who has to work as a caddie just to pay the rent. That doesn’t mean that certain topics are off limits. It means that while in search of that big laugh, we should expose social divisions with the goal of empathy and solidarity -- not further division.

As the late great Molly Ivins said, “Satire is traditionally the weapon of the powerless against the powerful. I only aim at the powerful. When satire is aimed at the powerless, it is not only cruel -- it's vulgar.” 



Charlie Hebdo is cruel, vulgar, and what in their eyes would be the harshest criticism possible, just not funny. 

And as my uncle Jerry once told me: if it’s racist and it’s not funny, then it’s just racist.

So I will grieve. I will condemn the violence. I will push against the backlash. And I will fight and write and laugh in the hope that we can create a political world, an artistic world that is both principled and nuanced. And it precisely because of these principles and nuance that at the same time that I stand against the violence and the backlash, I also make it clear: 



I am not #Charlie. 


--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:05 PM

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140. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
524 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 02:17 PM

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144. "RE: I am not Charlie. Swipe."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

rape is bad and disgusting. BUT...........

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:33 PM

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147. "Can you stop with the stupid fucking analogy?"
In response to Reply # 144
Wed Jan-14-15 02:35 PM by Hitokiri

  

          

Here's why it doesn't work.
People who are raped are victims.
The people killed in these attacks are victims.


Charlie Hebdo IS NOT a victim.


Your rape analogy, to be correct would go something like this.
A group of men rapes women. Over and over again. Some of them are more/less brutal than others.
A woman who wasn't raped kills one of the "gentler" rapist men. We'll say for reasons only marginally connected to the rapes.
Everyone blames the original rape victim women.
You get upset when we say "wait though, let's think about this group of men real quick." And then you complain that we're blaming the victim.


It's not a perfect analogy. But much closer to the truth than your lazy ass thinking.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:46 PM

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148. "Huh?"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:48 PM

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149. "RE: Can you stop with the stupid fucking analogy?"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

>
>Charlie Hebdo IS NOT a victim.

the girl who got raped is NOT a victim. she obviously wanted - and maybe even enjoyed - what she got

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:50 PM

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150. "they're willfully ignorant."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

it might be best to ignore them.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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164. "You follow his analogy?"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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165. "*pats head*"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Tommy-B
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:09 PM

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172. "RE: You follow his analogy?"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

*tuts*

sowhat is using those goalposts somewhere else now, silly. and you're just gonna have to accept that he doesn't want to discuss this anymore, as was stated in his first reply to this thread

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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SoWhat
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183. "listen, fucker."
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

you and i vehemently disagree about this subject and that's fine. we will not ever agree. no amount of snarky replies between us is going to convince the other. so let's not.

we can disagree. we don't even have to agree to disagree. we are not friends, acquaintances, colleagues. i have not ever paid attention to your username before these CH threads. i don't give a damn what you think about this and you surely don't or shouldn't care what i think.

so let's just fuck off.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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168. "This is another person not familiar with CH writing it off as racist. "
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

I don't know enough either way to say whether it is or is not racist but I can say I have not scene solid evidence that it is racist. I've heard a couple of people who have read it more frequently who says that it is not racist and that the people are taking jokes out of context (even the cover with the black person depicted as a monkey which was suppose to the POV of the right wing party).

I also disagree with the notion that satire should be "fun and harmless". I actually think there is a place for satire that gets people worked up and ruffle feathers. I didn't see the value of Chris Ofili's Dung Virgin Mary until I saw that it sent Rudy Giuliani into conniption fits.

I also generally get the idea of "punch up" but I think the intended target isn't the oppressed minority muslims but rather those who are intent on imposing their worldview and religion on others. At least thats the value I get out of it.

I can't think of any other time most of you would be sympathetic to a religious person/group trying to do that but some of y'all are making an exception because it involves oppressed minorities.

Seems like an odd exception to me to make. I guess that's why I bring up boko haram which involves black oppressed imposing their POV on more black oppressed I wonder how that fits into y'alls matrix of how to feel about it.

But I think we've had this argument already so I am ready to give up if y'all willing to admit we won't see eye to eye.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:05 PM

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170. "RE: This is another person not familiar with CH writing it off as racist..."
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

i'm with you 100%

charlie hebdo is not attacking all muslims, nor contributing to their oppression. they're using satire to poke fun at the extremists who want to spread their fascist ideology and impose sharia on everybody. no racism, no hate speech.

it's funny that we're even having to defend this, because even if it is racist - which it isn't - it still wouldn't be alright to go and murder people because of it.

this is why it sounds like "she shouldn't get raped, BUT..."

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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kwemos
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:17 PM

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175. "RE: This is another person not familiar with CH writing it off as racist..."
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

http://posthypnotic.randomstatic.net/charliehebdo/Charlie_Hebdo_article%2011.htm

A former employee feels it might be racist.

  

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Tommy-B
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:29 PM

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177. "RE: This is another person not familiar with CH writing it off as racist..."
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

there were no examples of racism in that article at all

a lot of opinions on the writers' supposed "islamophobia" and their comments on the ideology of islam, but no racism.

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Jon
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Wed Jan-14-15 05:39 PM

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194. "cosign"
In response to Reply # 113


          

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
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Wed Jan-14-15 11:48 AM

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120. "http://m.ebay.com/itm/271737960646?nav=SEARCH"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://m.ebay.com/itm/271737960646?nav=SEARCH


dam

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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The Letter L
Member since Apr 21st 2008
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Wed Jan-14-15 01:31 PM

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135. "Never thought i see the day when blacks defend a minstrel show"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Charlie Hebdo should do a cartoon about blacks saluting a confederate flag
with big watermelon grins dancing to Iggy Azalea and caption it with "These niggas love us"

the negroes in this post defending these offensive cartoons is the real comedy

"and there's your L" - pat sajak

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 01:44 PM

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137. "That was their first cartoon"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

Had Josephine Baker dancing around wearing a bunch of banana's and everything.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:11 PM

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142. "They want to be on the white side of history"
In response to Reply # 135


          

everyone wants to be super progressive and post racial.





  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:26 PM

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145. "RE: Charlie Hebdo to have the prophet Muhammad as their next front cover..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for all those who don't condone but "understand" why extremist muslims may be offended by these cartoons and who equate this struggle to black people's struggle in america, can you please provide some evidence of charlie hebdo being racist or hateful.

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:58 PM

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154. "African Americans - 13% of US Population/50% of US Prison Population"
In response to Reply # 145
Wed Jan-14-15 03:01 PM by bentagain

  

          

French Muslims - 10% of FRA Population/60% of FRA Prison Population

the analogy is not that far of a reach

I think it's just that we aren't aware of the issue in FRA.

In the I am not Charlie swipe posted above

it feels more like punching down than punching up

if something is racist and not funny, then it's just racist.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Tommy-B
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:01 PM

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156. "RE: African Americans - 13% of US Population/50% of US Prison Population"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

????

i asked for evidence of charlie hebdo being racist or hateful towards muslims, not how the two struggles are alike. lol

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:10 PM

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159. "you don't see their recurring caricature of a muslim (mohammed) as racis..."
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

https://www.google.com/search?q=charlie+hebdo+racist+muslim+cartoons&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS555US555&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=tMu2VNqFKcLLmAXf7YLoAQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgdii=_

long beard
long nose
dick on his head (turban, I'm guessing)

the analogy to AA is a way for us to understand

if that was a caricature of a black man

it wouldn't be printed in the US.

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/01/07/france-screaming-allau-akbarz-and-we-have-avenged-the-prophet-muslim-terrorists-attack-charlie-hebdo-satire-magazine-murdering-at-least-12-people/

what other conclusion would you arrive

considering muslims in FRA are an oppressed people?


---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:18 PM

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160. "RE: you don't see their recurring caricature of a muslim (mohammed) as r..."
In response to Reply # 159


  

          


>
>what other conclusion would you arrive
>
>considering muslims in FRA are an oppressed people?
>
>
>

not racist. "insulting" a prophet of their religion isn't racist.

i've yet to see anything that could qualify as racism

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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bentagain
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:27 PM

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162. "I thought that is what you would hide behind. Religious Discrimination"
In response to Reply # 160
Wed Jan-14-15 03:27 PM by bentagain

  

          

http://www.islamproject.org/education/Image9.jpg

looks like a high concentration of muslims in north africa and the middle east

if you can't equate that to race, call it what you want.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Tommy-B
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:43 PM

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166. "RE: I thought that is what you would hide behind. Religious Discriminati..."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

"hide behind" lol. hiding behind the fact that it's not racist, yeah i guess i am doing that.

still no evidence of racism as of yet

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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The Letter L
Member since Apr 21st 2008
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:38 PM

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179. "If you really cared if the cartoons were racist or not"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

you'd do your own research instead of asking for examples
Google isnt difficult to use

Youre clearly out to disprove & ignore that the cartoons are racist


"and there's your L" - pat sajak

  

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Tommy-B
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Wed Jan-14-15 05:09 PM

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186. "RE: If you really cared if the cartoons were racist or not"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

i've already done my research, player, and found no evidence of racism. i've got a website that might help you out though, it sure helped me:

http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com/

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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The Letter L
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190. ""Massa Charlie aint racist yall""
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

https://artandhistory.wordpress.com/tag/charlie-hebdo/

"and there's your L" - pat sajak

  

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bentagain
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184. "and you still haven't answered my question from a few replies prior"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

http://anonhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/antimuslimattacks1.jpg

you're saying it's not racist

I asked what other conclusion would you arrive at?

you still haven't answered

so I guess this is a game of semantics

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 06:08 PM

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196. "RE: and you still haven't answered my question from a few replies prior"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

i already answered your question. the conclusion i arrived at is that it is not racist.

it's taking a shit on someone's beliefs and ideology, sure. but it's not racist

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 03:32 PM

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163. "their drawings can easily be construed as racist "
In response to Reply # 156
Wed Jan-14-15 03:45 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

they are clearly grotesque ethnic caricatures/stereotypes of Semites/Muslims and Jews.

I have no doubt that if the target group were Africans or even African Americans they would be drawing minstrel-like black faced caricatures.

Also if it's true that this is Al Queda supported then we are talking about an act of war in which case-- as they say "all is fair".

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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teefiveten
Member since Oct 02nd 2008
33019 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 04:17 PM

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174. "there are a few cartoons depicting black France officials"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

as monkeys

*************************************
like.me
http://tinyurl.com/3z8486u

"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
524 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 04:33 PM

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178. "RE: there are a few cartoons depicting black France officials"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com/

"The cartoon was published after a National Front politician Facebook-shared a photoshop of Justice Taubira, drawn as a monkey, and then said on French television the she should be “in a tree swinging from the branches rather than in government” (she was later sentenced to 9 months of prison). The cartoon is styled as a political poster, calling on all far-right “Marine” racists to unify, under this racist imagery they have chosen. Ultimately, the cartoon is criticising the far-right's appeal to racism to gain supporters.

The cartoon was drawn by Charb. He participated in anti-racism activities, and notably illustrated the poster (below) for MRAP (Movement Against Racism and for Friendship between Peoples), an anti-racist NGO."

no racism

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 04:58 PM

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182. "That actually ads a lot of context"
In response to Reply # 178
Wed Jan-14-15 04:59 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

The way they choose to portray Mohamed however is seemingly offensive (IMO) and I can see why radicals would use it as a vehicle to incite violence. The overall style of the mag is certainly grotesque and I can get with that as an art style since it seems equally applied. I think what Charlie was trying to convey though may have been actually more anti radical Islam than anti Muslim. I'm only speculating based off what I read.

I get the satire in what was presented via the link and if that's truly the gist of their Mohammed works then I can only wish them the best of luck in their war against radicals. I still think there is a way to honor that particular belief of Islam and still satirize Radical Islam though.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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teefiveten
Member since Oct 02nd 2008
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Wed Jan-14-15 05:37 PM

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193. "thanks for this"
In response to Reply # 178
Wed Jan-14-15 05:46 PM by teefiveten

  

          

i can't say jesuischarlie but i'm not about censorship, especially when it is to appease murderous extremists and the idea people shouldn't do anything to upset them is stupid and really protects no one. because if we allow this, then there will be other innocuous things we'll have to stop doing because 'they may kill us' which is insanity

*************************************
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"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Wed Jan-14-15 07:06 PM

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203. "Actually yes it still is"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

These are actually prime examples of the beef Suey Park had with Colbert.
Using racist images no matter your aim or intention still uses them and the people they represent for some privledged battle in ideals and still has the effect of cutting both ways, sometimes reinforcing the imagery.

The killing were atrocious, I still like Colbert but yes those images are still harmful because of their lazy and clumsy aim.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Thu Jan-15-15 01:03 PM

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209. "RE: Actually yes it still is"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

so using satire to poke fun at a right-wing, racist party who used these images to disparage a black politican is racist.

ok

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Wed Jan-14-15 02:28 PM

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146. "http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lliana-bird/charlie-hebdo_b_6461030.html"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lliana Bird

Charlie Hebdo: They're Not Racist Just Because You're Offended


Over the past few days I, along with the rest of the world, have been horrified by the terrible atrocities committed in France last week, beginning with the massacre at the Charlie Hedbo offices, and continuing through the streets of Paris and into the supermarket of a jewish community.

I was equally moved by the outpouring of love and solidarity which followed. No, it doesn't help bring back the deceased, but it demonstrated the unbreakability of the human spirit, and it highlighted the similarities of our humanity amongst men and women in a society so often fractured by our differences.

But one thing I've found difficult to ignore is the growing voices of those who knew little of the cartoonists and journalists saying terrible things about them, which are quite frankly unsettling.

"Racist", "Islamophobic" and "hypocritical" have been the most common accusations. Many seemingly educated friends and social media buddies seemed to be merely glancing at a few cherry-picked Charlie Hebdo covers without making any effort in understanding their true meaning or impetus (or often even of the French translation of the accompanying captions).

So to those smearing the names and reputations of men and women who are no longer here to defend themselves a few things that I thought it might be good to know....

Charlie Hedbo were leftists, some may even anarchists and punks. They printed numerous cartoons which were anti racism/xenophobia; that mocked and satirised the far right as bigots and racists. As long time reader and Frenchman, Olivier Tonneau pointed out in his excellent article, The National Front and the Le Pen family were in fact their primary targets above all others. Next came bosses, politicians and the corrupt. Finally they opposed organised religion. ALL organised religion. They didn't hate or abuse or target any one group or religion. They did however mock ALL systems and organisations and individuals of power - from political to religious to everything in between. They were satirists, and all people, systems and organisations should be open to criticism and mockery (so long as it sticks within the laws of the land). They were democratic in their ridicule and satirisation. No one was exempt. To do otherwise would have been the hypocritical. Equal rights also means equal treatment.

Accusations of Islamophobia alone seem to ignore the fact that the Pope, Jesus, Orthodox Jews (amongst many others) were targeted in equal measure. As the publication's lawyer Richard Malka said this week "In each edition for the past 22 years there has not been one where there have not been caricatures of the pope, jesus, priests, rabbis, immans or Mohammed." Although of course... perhaps you still believe they were Islamophobic, Christian-phobic, and anti-Semitic... but it seems it was not the every day believer they were intentionally targeting.

"We want to laugh at extremists - every extremist," surviving staff member Laurent Leger stated. "They can be Muslim, Jewish, Catholic. Everyone can be religious, but extremist thoughts and acts we cannot accept".

Much has been made of the fact (and accusations of hypocrisy bandied around) over the fact that a Charlie Hebdo cartoonist was sacked in 2009 over an alleged anti-Semitic cartoon (although its rarely noted this decision was taken by a long-since departed editor; that the sacked journalist ultimately won his unfair dismissal suit; and that this cartoon targeted a specific individual as opposed to an entire religion or idea), and many have asked why Muslims should expect to put up with things that Jews don't. Which would be a fair point, if it was true.

Judaism was frequently lampooned (a simple Google search will verify that). The Charlie Hebdo team were also very much pro-Gaza, and often fiercely critical of Israel's actions in the Israel-Palestine conflict. One series entitled 'One Commandment A Day: The Torah Illustrated by Charb' coarsely depicts Jews as contradicting their religious values in their interactions with Palestinians."Ne pas opprimer les faibles" ("Don't oppress the weak") is the title of a cartoon of a Jewish man firing an assault weapon into the back of a Palestinian woman. "Here, take that Goliath!," he shouts.

More in-depth research and conversations with those who were regular readers of the magazine reveal that Charlie Hebdo also strongly and regularly denounced the plight of minorities, they wrote in support of the Kurds, and they campaigned relentlessly for all illegal immigrants to be given permanent right of stay. One of Cabu's most famous creations was Mon Beauf, which caricaturised an ignorant, racist and bigoted Frenchman, and Bernard Velhac, also known as Tignous (and a member of Cartoonists for Peace) once said, "I would love to think that every time I make a drawing it prevents a kidnapping, a murder, or removes a land mine. What joy it would be! If I had that power I would stop sleeping and would make drawings non-stop."

As Oliver Tonneau so beautifully writes: "Two young French Muslims of Arab descent have not assaulted the numerous extreme-right wing newspapers that exist in France (Minute, Valeurs Actuelles) who ceaselessly amalgamate Arabs, Muslims and fundamentalists, but the very newspaper that did the most to fight racism... I hope this helps you understand that if you belong to the radical left, then you lost precious friends and allies last week."

The comments section underneath this article will no doubt be full of remarks and examples of cartoons which appear to defy this and which seem to to scream "racism!" and honestly, it would take a far longer article than I could write here (or you would care to read of mine) to go through every single cartoon, analyse it, explain the context, the news item behind it, the cultural context, the nuances and history of French humour, satire and cartoons (which were used up to 400 years ago to mock religion, royalty and other powerful and oppressive institutions in a time when many people couldn't read and cartoons were essential in the fight against monarchy and the church).

Only then after all that might we appreciate that the cartoon depicting France's black Justice minister Christiane Taubira as a monkey was actually lampooning the blatant racism of a far right wing paper's front cover and thus exposing the thinly veiled racism of that publication (note that Taubira sued the paper Charlie Hebdo were parodying, and not Charlie Hebdo). By depicting the world through the lens of the extreme right's gaze they were attacking the racists, not the race.

We might also understand that the now widely shared front cover titled "Boko Haram Sex Slaves are angry" with the women shouting "don't touch our welfare" says the exact opposite of what it first appears at first glance. As Max Fisher explains in Vox this week far better than I could, "Charie Hebdo is a leftist magazine that supports welfare programs, but the French political right tends to oppose welfare programs... what this cover actually says is that the French political right is so monstrous when it comes to welfare for immigrants that they would have you believe that even Nigerian migrants escaping from Boko Haram sexual slavery are just here to steal welfare."

And we may appreciate that the very controversial cartoon of Mohammed being filmed naked titled "The film that embraces the Muslim world:" wasn't merely for the sake of putting him in a lewd position - it is a parody of a Brigitte Bardot scene in Jean-Luc Goddard's film Contempt thus satirising the outrage following the release of a controversial film about Islam.

Perhaps knowing all this and more you (or even I) may still find these and other cartoons extremely offensive (or worse) .

It's your right to feel that way, and to say as much as loudly as you like (and in doing so even to offend others). Freedom of speech means that some things people say and do are bound to offend you and vice versa. That's ok. As (a personal hero of mine) Majid Nawaz says you have every right to be offended, you do not have the right to not be offended.

Of course, freedom of speech is not absolute, no one sane would suggest it is. The laws of the land lay out what is and is not permissible. Defamation, incitement of violence and hate speech are just a few examples of where what you say crosses a line. But in France, religion is fair game.

Incitement of violence against Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists etc is not ok (or legal). But criticism and mockery of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or atheism and the ideas they represent is. People have rights. Ideas do not. And the law is there to punish those who cross that line.

If anyone genuinely felt that the Charlie Hebdo crossed that very line then they had the option to start legal proceedings (as the Catholic church did many times). Fear of being prosecuted is a valid one that journalists, comedians and even cartoonists consider. Fear of losing one's life shouldn't be. The law is there to guide us in what we say, and punish us when we go too far. If you don't feel that the law adequately represents the rights of muslims or anyone else for that matter, or that certain depictions of religious figures in cartoons shouldn't be permissable, you're free to say so, write about it, protest and campaign to change the law. You aren't however free to take the law into your own hands.

The thought that a religion, a set of beliefs, or an idea, could be above criticism or ridicule is, to me, a scary one which could lead us into very dangerous ground.

Ultimately the line between humour and offence is a thin one, and the posts will move from person to person. It's something satirists and stand up comedians are well aware of. And the boundaries are often pushed. I don't doubt many people would have found the Charlie Hebdo cartoons extremely offensive, and I'm not here to tell you that's wrong, but the insinuation that insulting/offending people may have invited this horrific tragedy on any level is tantamount in my eyes to the old age adage that a rape victim "asked for it" by wearing a short skirt. It's victim blaming at its very worst, and especially against people who fought in many ways for the rights of those who attacked them.

So long as offence remains within the bounds of what is legally acceptable, then it is just that - acceptable - whether you personally like it or not. And until the respective laws change, people are just going to have to like it or lump it (or live in a country where the laws are different).

As we all argue about what's right to say and what's wrong, what's offensive, and what's hypocritical, it might do us good to remember that 17 people died last week in the cruelest of ways. Each was their own person, no doubt differing in their morals, ethics, ideas and thoughts. Let's not call many of them names before they are even cold in the ground, although... of course, it's your right to do so if you like because most of you, like them, have similar freedom of expression. I may not like you insulting them, and you may not like anything that i've said in this article, but as you write your comment in section underneath (perhaps about what a stupid idiot you think I am) just remember that Charlie Hebdo's staff died standing up for your right to do so.

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9764 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 04:51 PM

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181. "Well, here's what former contributor Oliver Cyran wrote..."
In response to Reply # 146


          

...long before this happened:

http://posthypnotic.randomstatic.net/charliehebdo/Charlie_Hebdo_article%2011.htm

Some relevant parts:

"I was no longer part of Charlie Hebdo when the suicide planes made their impact on your editorial line, but the Islamophobic neurosis which bit by bit took over your pages from that day on affected me personally, as it ruined the memory of the good moments I spent on the magazine during the 1990s. The devastating laughter of “Charlie” which I had loved to hear now sounded in my ears like the laugh of a happy idiot getting his cock out at the checkout counter, or of a pig rolling in its own shit. And yet, I never called your magazine racist. But since today you are proclaiming, high and loud, your stainless and irreproachable anti-racism, maybe it’s now the right moment to seriously consider the question."

(this section cuts right to the core IMO) "The obsessive pounding on Muslims to which your weekly has devoted itself for more than a decade has had very real effects. It has powerfully contributed to popularising, among “left-wing” opinion, the idea that Islam is a major “problem” in French society. That belittling Muslims is no longer the sole privilege of the extreme right, but a “right to offend” which is sanctified by secularism, the Republic, by “co-existence”. And even - let’s not be stingy with the alibis! - by the rights of women. It’s widely believed today that the exclusion of a veiled girl is a sign, not of stupid discrimination, but of solid, respectable feminism, which consists of pestering those whom one claims to be liberating. Draped in these noble intentions that flatter their ignorance and exempt them from any scruples, we see people with whom we were close, and whom we believed mentally healthy, abruptly start to cut loose with a stream of racist idiocies."

"To Charlie Hebdo, it’s always been good form to scoff at the “fat idiots” who like football and watching TF1 . A slippery slope. Belief in one’s own superiority, accustomed to looking down on the common herd, is the surest way to sabotage one’s own intellectual defences and to allow them to fall over in the least gust of wind. Your own, although supported by a good education, comfortable income and the pleasant team spirit of “Charlie’s gang”, collapsed at a stupefying speed. I remember a full-page article by Caroline Fourest which appeared on June 11 2008. In it, she recounted her friendly meeting with the Dutch cartoonist Gregorius Nekschot, who had gotten some grief for representing his Muslim fellow-countrymen in a particularly hilarious way. Judge for yourself: an imam dressed as Santa Claus buggering a goat, with the caption: “We have to share our traditions”. Or an Arab, slumped on a couch and lost in thought: “The Qur’an doesn’t say if you have to do anything to be on the dole for 30 years.” Or even the “monument to the slavery of white indigenous taxpayers”: a Dutch person in foot shackles, carrying a black person on his back, arms crossed and sucking on a pacifier. Foul racism? Oh come on, it’s freedom of expression! Certainly, Fourest granted, the slightly coarse humour of her friend “doesn’t always travel well”, but it must be understood “in the Dutch context which is ultra-tolerant, even angelic, towards fundamentalism.” Whose fault is it if Muslims leave themselves open to gags with export difficulties? That of Muslims themselves and their over-angelic allies, obviously. As Nekschot himself explained to Charlie Hebdo’s readers, “Muslims must understand that humour has been part of our tradition for centuries.”

No-one in your office up and quit after this insufficiently-noticed page, which after all did no more than sanctify a process which had begun six or seven years earlier. Birds of a tolerant feather flock together. But when I read this in your Le Monde article: “We are almost ashamed to remind you that anti-racism and passion for equality of all human beings are and will remain the founding principles of Charlie Hebdo”, the only information I got from it is that your team are not completely immune to shame. Really?"

"It’s rare that Charlie Hebdo is not cited to support the golden rule authorising us to spew all over Muslims. And, since your disciples have learned their lessons well, they never fail to exclaim when they’re caught red-handed: “But it is our right to mock religions! Don’t confuse legitimate criticism of Islam with anti-Arab racism!"

And this was coming from one of them. Whatever...

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
524 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 05:06 PM

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185. "RE: Well, here's what former contributor Oliver Cyran wrote..."
In response to Reply # 181
Wed Jan-14-15 05:06 PM by Tommy-B

  

          

i still see no evidence of racism there at all.

the cartoons of an imam fucking a goat and the muslim on the dole were drawn by a dutch guy for another magazine.

all these allegations are falling short

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9764 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 05:18 PM

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188. "*sigh*"
In response to Reply # 185


          

"Everyone" knows those guys were leftist intellectuals. That doesn't mean they weren't part of the problem, that their satire and the nature of it isn't immune to criticism. The cartoon of the girls with hijab screaming for welfare was on the fucking cover; it was what greeted people in the stores that sold the mag. If anything, the supposedly well-meaning intentions of the satire seems to have been used as an excuse, a license if you will to make cheap jokes on behalf of the muslim minority while still keeping their hands clean...

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 07:08 PM

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205. "Exactly"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

>"Everyone" knows those guys were leftist intellectuals. That
>doesn't mean they weren't part of the problem, that their
>satire and the nature of it isn't immune to criticism. The
>cartoon of the girls with hijab screaming for welfare was on
>the fucking cover; it was what greeted people in the stores
>that sold the mag. If anything, the supposedly well-meaning
>intentions of the satire seems to have been used as an excuse,
>a license if you will to make cheap jokes on behalf of the
>muslim minority while still keeping their hands clean...

It's lazy and still harmful
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
73035 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 06:31 PM

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197. "on the surface they are racist..."
In response to Reply # 185


          

Do you think any radical muslims are diving into these images to get to the meat of the issue? Especially when they don't condone cartoons of the profit to begin with?

This would be like a lefty newspaper drawing Hillary Clinton in black face holding tea bags to prove how racist the Tea Party is...

and it would be viewed because its a racist image.

When I see the explanation for drawing a black woman as a monkey its smells like bullshit. Its an excuse used to mass produce a cartoon of a black woman as a monkey.

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
524 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 06:39 PM

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199. "RE: on the surface they are racist..."
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

cool, so they weren't racist. glad we're finally in agreement

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6308 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 02:54 PM

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152. "It's about respect. Clearly. (NWS)"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-14-15 02:55 PM by navajo joe

  

          

Just like it's about ethics in journalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSMJb0fcWt4&bpctr=1421266802

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 04:15 PM

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173. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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buffalosoul
Member since Feb 17th 2004
885 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 05:27 PM

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191. "Really love how everyone is an expert on French race politics"
In response to Reply # 0


          

They're printing the cartoon because they are a private organisation, it's not illegal, and they want to.

  

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Vex_id
Charter member
65302 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 06:36 PM

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198. "lol right? they don't care, though. It's raging think-piece revolution"
In response to Reply # 191


          


-->

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 07:07 PM

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204. "there's a million things that aren't illegal to print. why this?"
In response to Reply # 191


          

?

why do they want to print this?

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Wed Jan-14-15 07:10 PM

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206. "Because they can"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

White privledge isn't exclusive to french politics
We know this, we understand this in this country, we know its still hurtful and harmful to be used in ideology politics by the privileged class no matter the intention

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
3306 posts
Thu Jan-15-15 06:37 AM

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208. "Understanding Charlie Hebdo."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jan-15-15 06:39 AM by TheAlbionist

  

          

Useful to read for those struggling to understand the context of grotesque and seemingly racist/sexist/homophobic cartoons.

http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com/

Not that it'll stop every Internet user with zero knowledge of French politics and satire judging them at face value still, but yeah, the information is there if you want to stop making quite such idiots of yourself in public.

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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