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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41172 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 06:55 AM

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"Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11"


  

          

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883

Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

Gunmen have attacked the Paris office of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, killing 11 people and injuring 10, French officials say.

Witnesses spoke of sustained gunfire at the office as the attackers opened fire with assault rifles.

The satirical weekly has courted controversy in the past with its take on news and current affairs.

Its latest tweet was a cartoon of the Islamic State militant group leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

An eyewitness, Benoit Bringer, told French TV channel Itele: "Two black-hooded men entered the building with Kalashnikovs. A few minutes later we heard lots of shots."

The men were then seen fleeing the building.

"It's carnage," French police official Luc Poignant told another French channel, BFMTV.

The magazine was fire-bombed in November 2011 a day after it carried a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad.

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Death toll is up to 12
Jan 07th 2015
1
ugh I could have dealt with the footage of the gunshots and them
Jan 07th 2015
2
they took out 2 or 3 frames from a point blank execution
Jan 07th 2015
3
they initially showed the frame of the shooter with gun to officer's hea...
Jan 07th 2015
9
CNN is the only channel showing that.
Jan 07th 2015
4
      msnbc was showing it too
Jan 07th 2015
11
      BBC too.
Jan 07th 2015
14
Fuck with the bull, you get the horn
Jan 07th 2015
5
this is true, but wait and see what the French do
Jan 07th 2015
6
u actually dont have to respect them
Jan 07th 2015
8
Put up or shut up will never go out of style
Jan 07th 2015
17
      The newspaper is the one who showed courage, you fool.
Jan 07th 2015
20
      I don't think the paper showed courage
Jan 07th 2015
25
      Disagree-- the showed carelessness and absurd arrogance
Jan 07th 2015
34
      the paper should have been silenced by the threat of violence?
Jan 07th 2015
22
           Should have taken into account that their actions
Jan 07th 2015
26
                refusing to be intimidated means just that. free expression, too.
Jan 07th 2015
39
                     No not exactly, you can think what you want
Jan 07th 2015
51
                     far less than a cartoon?
Jan 07th 2015
53
                     You sound a little emotional
Jan 07th 2015
74
                          aw, how romantic
Jan 07th 2015
119
                               The sound of crickets was a better response
Jan 07th 2015
138
                     Exactly
Jan 07th 2015
55
                          i mean some people will shoot you for looking at them for too long
Jan 07th 2015
58
                          First off, I don't admire anyone that murders in the name of religion...
Jan 07th 2015
67
                          yup.... but if you were warned to stop looking at a person or be killed....
Jan 07th 2015
128
                          laughs, giggles and disrespect at the expense of a disenfranchised
Jan 07th 2015
64
                               RE: laughs, giggles and disrespect at the expense of a disenfranchised
Jan 07th 2015
68
                               gospel.
Jan 07th 2015
88
                               you're confusing first amendment protections with the freedom
Jan 07th 2015
188
                                    oh, stfu.
Jan 07th 2015
192
                                         lol goddam you are in your feelings again
Jan 07th 2015
198
                                         you're siding w/racist xenophobes...so
Jan 07th 2015
200
                                              nope. i'm siding with freedom of speech.
Jan 07th 2015
206
                                                   great.
Jan 07th 2015
208
                                         you do realize
Jan 07th 2015
201
                                              k.
Jan 07th 2015
202
                                              that's kind of a fact-truth argument though
Jan 07th 2015
240
                     Where was that bravado when the Germans came?
Jan 07th 2015
155
                          question: how do distinguish which oppression is funny?
Jan 07th 2015
252
                               My question is fair and it's interesting that
Jan 07th 2015
313
                                    who is "they?"
Jan 08th 2015
368
Uh, I do?
Jan 07th 2015
21
      Sorry man-- that's what it looks like when people
Jan 07th 2015
31
      lol, you are such a reader's digest revolutionary
Jan 07th 2015
40
      you don't think they pulled off a sophisticated plan?
Jan 07th 2015
45
           well i suppose they did, but not as sophisticated or self sacrificial
Jan 07th 2015
47
smh
Jan 07th 2015
12
So, it's ok for cops can kill people for talking crap too huh?
Jan 07th 2015
15
You know it's not that simple
Jan 07th 2015
18
actually, it is.
Jan 07th 2015
23
      Religion === Policing ?
Jan 07th 2015
27
           in terms of misguided fervor and willingness to kill? yes, apparently.
Jan 07th 2015
41
No it's not ok to kill. That's why murder is wrong.
Jan 07th 2015
33
wow
Jan 07th 2015
28
Pretty much. I understand freedom of speech and all that shit...
Jan 07th 2015
30
there are people who would kill you for all types of petty shit
Jan 07th 2015
42
      ^^^
Jan 07th 2015
43
      Yeah, there are people that will kill you for all types of shit, so you....
Jan 07th 2015
49
           jesus christ.
Jan 07th 2015
123
           o ok so now people have to be innocent to be wronged
Jan 07th 2015
249
                RE: o ok so now people have to be innocent to be wronged
Jan 07th 2015
311
                     you, like everyone else here, is trying to euphemize "just" w/"expected"
Jan 08th 2015
365
                          RE: you, like everyone else here, is trying to euphemize "just" w/"expec...
Jan 08th 2015
429
that's cool
Jan 07th 2015
38
how is this just casually floated out there?
Jan 07th 2015
148
is there nothing in your life worth dying for?
Jan 07th 2015
224
      that is such a bullshit action movie view of the world
Jan 07th 2015
251
      Tell that to George Washington, Teddy Rosevelt, and
Jan 07th 2015
310
           so common that youre digging up 300-year-old examples
Jan 08th 2015
431
      lol look at John McClane over here
Jan 07th 2015
286
THe editor said he'd rather be dead than stop after the bombing
Jan 08th 2015
331
if they dont like freedom of speech tell them
Jan 08th 2015
348
Ugly and the fallout will be ugly, too. SMH
Jan 07th 2015
7
Just saw the liveleak cop execution video. Brutal shit man
Jan 07th 2015
10
wow.
Jan 07th 2015
13
Yeah, it's going to get awful over there
Jan 07th 2015
62
agreed.
Jan 07th 2015
66
RE: wow.
Jan 08th 2015
335
I wonder how the French are going to respond.
Jan 07th 2015
16
We sell them weapons for a reason
Jan 07th 2015
19
with violence, racism, xenophobia, etc.
Jan 07th 2015
24
You know ahhhhh
Jan 07th 2015
29
perfect.
Jan 08th 2015
351
RE: You know ahhhhh
Jan 08th 2015
373
Yup. They'll consider no other options I'm sure.
Jan 07th 2015
32
With an iron, racist fist
Jan 07th 2015
36
      Islam is a race?
Jan 07th 2015
70
           man you know what he means.
Jan 07th 2015
           that wont cut it. the distinction is important.
Jan 07th 2015
167
                no it's not
Jan 07th 2015
264
                     very true. i think i responded to something they werent talking about.
Jan 07th 2015
290
                     RE: no it's not
Jan 07th 2015
299
                          one, re-read what I wrote
Jan 07th 2015
304
           Did I say it was a race?
Jan 08th 2015
388
This is obviously the work of mad men.
Jan 07th 2015
35
for sure.
Jan 07th 2015
37
of course they are mad...
Jan 07th 2015
44
actually they may drive more people to their cause
Jan 07th 2015
109
RE: actually they may drive more people to their cause
Jan 07th 2015
302
      You're right
Jan 07th 2015
308
           RE: You're right
Jan 07th 2015
316
                You won't see me smiling next to a hung corpse
Jan 08th 2015
330
Pretty much.
Jan 08th 2015
403
Da fuck is wrong with "Admire their dedication" dumb fucks in here?
Jan 07th 2015
46
b-b-b-b-b-but it's different!
Jan 07th 2015
48
LOL. Murdering your wife in a jealous rage takes conviction!
Jan 07th 2015
50
the amount of LOVE you show that turns into murderous obsession???
Jan 07th 2015
57
baby, i beat you during sex out of PASSION.
Jan 07th 2015
59
note: ppl beat their children out of LOVE.
Jan 07th 2015
71
If you don't do what God says, you burn for eternity.
Jan 07th 2015
85
No one said they were right in their actions
Jan 07th 2015
91
cowards. im absolutely dumbfounded
Jan 07th 2015
52
this place is so weird
Jan 07th 2015
54
where? earth? it sure is.
Jan 07th 2015
56
      okayplayer is a microcosm of earth I guess
Jan 07th 2015
63
^ Poignant. You smashed every idiotic argument in here. Nice work.
Jan 07th 2015
60
MESS WITH THE BULL GET THE OKP LOGIC.
Jan 07th 2015
61
lol
Jan 07th 2015
69
haha
Jan 07th 2015
104
lol
Jan 07th 2015
164
wait. no.
Jan 07th 2015
65
I'm not into name calling but my pledge got me short fused.
Jan 07th 2015
76
i disagree w/the magazine's decision
Jan 07th 2015
78
i wouldnt have run them, but i stand by their right to their own decisio...
Jan 07th 2015
130
      rights aren't at issue here.
Jan 07th 2015
132
           you're so eager to make that distinction over and over.
Jan 07th 2015
214
                fantastic.
Jan 07th 2015
216
                i'm thrilled you didnt take the opportunity to repeat yourself
Jan 07th 2015
230
                I mean sure you could mock other religions but for the most part....
Jan 08th 2015
349
no man, we're supposed to speak the same language
Jan 07th 2015
75
i'm standing in this line
Jan 07th 2015
127
I don't think they deserved to be murdered
Jan 07th 2015
72
In a society where media glorifies violence, death, and drug use
Jan 07th 2015
73
i draw a line at depictions of the prophet.
Jan 07th 2015
77
Same goes for Fundamentalist over here, you can't co-exist in a pluralis...
Jan 07th 2015
82
Did you actually look at the cartoons?
Jan 07th 2015
83
I did. Like I said before, one critical idea is that if you live in...
Jan 07th 2015
102
      You don't think Charlie's pretty intolerant in this case too?
Jan 07th 2015
105
      intolerant of what?
Jan 07th 2015
126
      murder is intolorence. being critical and satirizing
Jan 07th 2015
136
           I mean the core question is how much rigidity can a religion have ...
Jan 07th 2015
243
      Charlie had the right to publish those cartoons but
Jan 07th 2015
107
no, it doesn't.
Jan 07th 2015
86
      I am not sure how or what you are disagreeing with me about.
Jan 07th 2015
97
           going at Jesus in NYC != going at the Prophet in Paris.
Jan 07th 2015
99
                I don't see how the distinction you are making makes a difference.
Jan 07th 2015
114
                ok.
Jan 07th 2015
120
                then you are saying you don't understand race and class
Jan 07th 2015
269
                     I think that's a stupid distinction then.
Jan 08th 2015
353
                Plus Christians believe Jesus gets the last laugh
Jan 07th 2015
115
French humor is generally very crass/low brow and mean spirited
Jan 07th 2015
89
      I read a fair amount of bd
Jan 07th 2015
90
      oh hell no.
Jan 07th 2015
98
      *B-3 Hammond swirls*
Jan 07th 2015
103
      You made a few fair points, however
Jan 07th 2015
176
           We're done.
Jan 07th 2015
183
                We hardly even begun.
Jan 07th 2015
196
                     you are stupid and no one should reply to you
Jan 07th 2015
275
                          I'm stupid, you're stupid, we're all stupid.
Jan 07th 2015
279
      um, what?
Jan 08th 2015
342
           ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL.....
Jan 08th 2015
390
I'm not justifying it
Jan 07th 2015
80
Dawg, you just typed "But Those Cartoons Were Insensitive".
Jan 07th 2015
79
      Yes, I did.
Jan 07th 2015
81
           You just hit the nail on the head.
Jan 07th 2015
92
           Who cares if YOU don't see the value of it. It's not your call.
Jan 07th 2015
93
                The KKK sees value in their propaganda too.
Jan 07th 2015
95
                     Yup. And we all should defend their right to distribute it without...
Jan 07th 2015
96
                          i'm not sure you understand free speech.
Jan 07th 2015
100
                          Free Speech also means the government can not permit a consequence
Jan 07th 2015
117
                               it doesn't mean that.
Jan 07th 2015
121
                          No I agree with you.
Jan 07th 2015
101
                          Even though they have murdered many people?
Jan 07th 2015
150
Jan 07th 2015
84
what?
Jan 07th 2015
87
      RE: what?
Jan 07th 2015
94
plz read. no one is condoning murder.
Jan 07th 2015
106
agreed.
Jan 07th 2015
108
That's the problem tho
Jan 07th 2015
111
Trolling is our habits, though?
Jan 07th 2015
112
You're appealing to my troll hating sensibilities
Jan 07th 2015
133
RE: That's the problem tho
Jan 07th 2015
113
you can do whatever you want, just know motherfuckers will kill you
Jan 07th 2015
116
It's reality, but the post is full of critiques on how it's wrong
Jan 07th 2015
122
      if more Blk ppl employed violence when wronged
Jan 07th 2015
129
      i have the right to blast music in my office if i want.
Jan 07th 2015
131
but...it's not this.
Jan 07th 2015
124
      i equate this to white ppl demanding the right to say nigger.
Jan 07th 2015
134
      well, i dunno about all of that.
Jan 07th 2015
140
           again, im not justifying it. its wrong. its all bad.
Jan 07th 2015
143
                I'm sorry today's violence happened.
Jan 07th 2015
147
                     thats an AWFULLY liberal definition of reprehensible
Jan 07th 2015
151
                          i am an awful liberal.
Jan 07th 2015
154
      Assholes are a part of the circle of life tho!
Jan 07th 2015
139
           oh, for sure.
Jan 07th 2015
142
           Especially the French, lol.
Jan 07th 2015
177
Base........
Jan 07th 2015
118
Slain Charlie Hebdo editor would rather die standing up. . .
Jan 07th 2015
135
he went out w/ his boots on doing what he loved.
Jan 07th 2015
137
you're completely right.....
Jan 08th 2015
346
This is sad for everyone.
Jan 07th 2015
110
im stunned at the direction these replies have gone
Jan 07th 2015
125
i'm appalled but not stunned
Jan 07th 2015
149
      i guess thats more accurate.
Jan 07th 2015
156
      You can't understand how Blacks in USA relate to French Muslims.
Jan 07th 2015
175
I've been having trouble coming to an opinon on this...
Jan 07th 2015
141
the respect religious belief commands is just mind-boggling to me
Jan 07th 2015
145
Yes and no.
Jan 07th 2015
152
that status is entirely dependent on geography
Jan 07th 2015
157
      Context is important. That's what I said.
Jan 07th 2015
159
           im not talking about a vacuum
Jan 07th 2015
166
                I do not side with a religion. I side with the oppressed.
Jan 07th 2015
191
                     if you're oppressed by a cartoonist fuck your whole life
Jan 07th 2015
194
                     wait. maybe you don't know how much the brown ppl in Europe
Jan 07th 2015
197
                     RE: wait. maybe you don't know how much the brown ppl in Europe
Jan 07th 2015
203
                          awesome;
Jan 07th 2015
209
                     This is white supremist, hetero-patriarchal thinking.
Jan 07th 2015
210
                          unchecked whiteness.
Jan 07th 2015
212
                          RE: This is the crutch of the victim mentality
Jan 07th 2015
225
                               . . .
Jan 07th 2015
228
                               I'll take "things white supremacists say..." for 5000, Alex.
Jan 07th 2015
239
                                    and you can think i'm a filthy racist
Jan 07th 2015
246
                                         No one is excusing the murder though.
Jan 07th 2015
254
                                              You're absolutely excusing the murder. Or at minimum
Jan 07th 2015
262
                                                   No, that is not what I'm saying.
Jan 07th 2015
270
                                                        That is precisely what you are saying.
Jan 07th 2015
272
                                                        again, you are a fucn moron.
Jan 07th 2015
282
                                                             ive actually exerted effort towards not reading his replies
Jan 07th 2015
288
                                                                  explain yourself please.
Jan 08th 2015
361
                                                        like, mightily.
Jan 07th 2015
278
                                                             "it's so black to support murder over being insulted?"
Jan 07th 2015
287
                                                             we're done.
Jan 07th 2015
293
                                                                  no more epithets before you give up?
Jan 07th 2015
297
                                                                       i am not interested in continuing the conversation w/you
Jan 07th 2015
303
                                                                       RE: i am not interested in continuing the conversation w/you
Jan 07th 2015
319
                                                             RE: like, mightily.
Jan 07th 2015
317
                     ^^ all day. this. ^^
Jan 07th 2015
195
                     *sigh* i was never talking about *a* religion
Jan 07th 2015
234
                     yet, again you are being dismissive
Jan 07th 2015
280
                          if im being dismissive its because im trying to look in a microscope
Jan 07th 2015
301
                               lofl. i really enjoyed the micro/tele scope analogy
Jan 07th 2015
305
                     This is the exact point here
Jan 07th 2015
320
there are a LOT of white muslims...funny, how they are never the ones
Jan 08th 2015
341
      Bosnia isn't that popular a place
Jan 08th 2015
383
I feel all of this.
Jan 07th 2015
153
      Thank you.
Jan 07th 2015
163
           You said what I think.
Jan 07th 2015
169
                Perhaps you should take this wonderful and privleged opinion
Jan 07th 2015
207
                     Who is defending that?
Jan 07th 2015
215
                     We're not discussing that either.
Jan 07th 2015
221
                          WHO SAID THEY ARE OKAY WITH THAT
Jan 07th 2015
233
                               why are you replying to him fam
Jan 07th 2015
285
                               actions speak louder than words.
Jan 08th 2015
362
                     You ain't know? Muslim countries care nothing about gays.
Jan 07th 2015
296
What does satire really mean? (swipe)
Jan 07th 2015
144
On: Satire and the Value of Freedom of Speech (swipe)
Jan 07th 2015
146
RE: Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11
Jan 07th 2015
158
some of us learned to use our words
Jan 07th 2015
160
who said its acceptable.... most are saying its EXPECTED
Jan 07th 2015
168
      condemning the cartoonists for the "expected" reaction
Jan 07th 2015
170
      you beat me
Jan 07th 2015
172
      publishing those cartoons wasn't the way to have the conversation
Jan 07th 2015
181
      in your opinion.
Jan 07th 2015
186
           fine.
Jan 07th 2015
193
      I disagree... we live in a world with consequences
Jan 07th 2015
184
      yeah but no one seems to realize thats the worst part of this
Jan 07th 2015
171
           we don't hate religion as much as you. Lol
Jan 07th 2015
178
           im not talking about Islam
Jan 07th 2015
180
                I can't check all of this awful whiteness. I'm done.
Jan 07th 2015
185
                     *shrug*
Jan 07th 2015
187
           we are past that point in the convo where we need to admit murder is dis...
Jan 07th 2015
189
                RE: we are past that point in the convo where we need to admit murder is...
Jan 07th 2015
217
                i know how you feel lol
Jan 07th 2015
231
                what are you talking about?
Jan 07th 2015
241
im ready for the consequences of this: youre an idiot.
Jan 07th 2015
162
RE: Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11
Jan 07th 2015
165
so, if a parent beats their child senseless and bloody..
Jan 07th 2015
190
And girls should cover up lest they get raped.
Jan 08th 2015
340
From violence, death and incarceration? YES, IT DOES.
Jan 08th 2015
435
This post is weird as shit
Jan 07th 2015
161
but even Charlie and his staff would admit they knew it was coming...
Jan 07th 2015
173
some people here turn into Mitt Romney on social issues
Jan 07th 2015
211
the selective victim blaming of okp
Jan 07th 2015
174
i mean im used to hypocrisy on okp
Jan 07th 2015
179
      Publishing drawings of the Prophet's butthole
Jan 07th 2015
199
           How about burning women alive,
Jan 07th 2015
213
           Yes, all those things are reprehensible.
Jan 07th 2015
218
                Hardly a distraction. Rather, some potent hypocrisy.
Jan 07th 2015
220
                     Who is saying that?!
Jan 07th 2015
223
                     Actions speak louder than words my friend.
Jan 07th 2015
226
                     Yes, it is a distraction.
Jan 07th 2015
227
                          Not even remotely the same thing.
Jan 07th 2015
229
                               We're done (c)
Jan 07th 2015
232
                                    Of course.
Jan 07th 2015
248
           and i would reserve that for things that affect people's well-being
Jan 07th 2015
235
                Mythological or not, it means something to people.
Jan 07th 2015
237
                     well public defecation on bare floor is reprehensible lol
Jan 07th 2015
244
                     Would you react the same way if a Christian shot up the South Park guys?
Jan 07th 2015
256
                          Would I react in what way?
Jan 07th 2015
263
                               *looks at reply 72*
Jan 08th 2015
326
                                    Context is everything.
Jan 08th 2015
343
                                         I'm no fan of Charlie Hebdo
Jan 08th 2015
387
One suspect dead. Two more in custody. (SWIPE)
Jan 07th 2015
182
It is narrow minded to ignore why Muslims are emigrating in the first pl...
Jan 07th 2015
204
Why can we not be opposed to both?
Jan 07th 2015
219
We can and we are, however.
Jan 07th 2015
222
      Home nations like... France?
Jan 07th 2015
236
      Mexicans?
Jan 07th 2015
250
           I find it puzzling that you don't understand that France is HOME
Jan 07th 2015
257
                Sigh.
Jan 07th 2015
259
                     You keep on talking about 'their home nations'
Jan 07th 2015
261
                          Innocent people were killed over a cartoon.
Jan 07th 2015
267
                               Keep moving that goalpost.
Jan 07th 2015
274
                                    Keep denying the facts. :)
Jan 07th 2015
277
      stop asking stupid questions you know the answer too..
Jan 07th 2015
242
just because they have two options doesnt mean one of them is good tho
Jan 07th 2015
245
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise,
Jan 07th 2015
205
it's pretty simple.
Jan 07th 2015
247
RE: If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise,
Jan 08th 2015
441
a lot of stupid blame shifting people on OKP. Had no idea.
Jan 07th 2015
238
The person who made this
Jan 07th 2015
253
      post 205
Jan 07th 2015
255
      That doesn't answer the question.
Jan 07th 2015
258
      You don't understand freedom of speech.
Jan 07th 2015
265
           Should they be murdered for it? eehhhhh, no.
Jan 07th 2015
268
           Those who committed the murder are not the only ones oppressed.
Jan 07th 2015
271
                These killings were done over a cartoon, not oppression.
Jan 07th 2015
276
           lol what?
Jan 07th 2015
273
           They have the right not to fear government goons bursting in.
Jan 07th 2015
281
           many find life to be a basic human right. an unalienable right, even.
Jan 07th 2015
284
                so why are so many people hell bent on trampling all over
Jan 07th 2015
289
                     you can't be trampled on with words.
Jan 07th 2015
291
                     France has strict hate speech laws
Jan 07th 2015
295
                          Good point, but it's not executable (rarely jailable) offense
Jan 07th 2015
300
                               In France you can be jailed for denying the Holocaust. nm
Jan 07th 2015
309
                     i dont have the answer for that.
Jan 07th 2015
294
                          I know "WE" don't. but
Jan 07th 2015
306
                               ^^^^^^
Jan 08th 2015
338
           Then we are pretty much in agreement. The difference is this
Jan 08th 2015
336
           RE: You don't understand freedom of speech.
Jan 07th 2015
292
      lol but you are ignoring a major condition
Jan 07th 2015
260
      I do.
Jan 07th 2015
266
           And the fact that you put oppressor in quotation marks...
Jan 08th 2015
337
                i used "oppressor" because we're talking about cartoonists
Jan 08th 2015
357
                     You are talking about cartoonists.
Jan 08th 2015
359
                          Yeah you're talking about that bullshit in a post about murdered
Jan 08th 2015
369
                               u mad.
Jan 08th 2015
375
      RE: The person who made this
Jan 07th 2015
298
Well, it's clear this debate will never come to a conclusion.
Jan 07th 2015
283
RE: Well, it's clear this debate will never come to a conclusion.
Jan 07th 2015
314
Good luck learning about other cultures and their beliefs
Jan 07th 2015
321
Does racism pass as satire now?
Jan 07th 2015
307
Charlie hebdo has always been racist AF, anti-black
Jan 07th 2015
312
Don't forget only whites are allowed to be violent
Jan 07th 2015
315
RE: Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11
Jan 07th 2015
318
Albert Camus novel The Stranger
Jan 07th 2015
322
RE: Albert Camus novel The Stranger
Jan 08th 2015
323
      Said the British army recruiter to the American slave
Jan 08th 2015
328
           RE: Said the British army recruiter to the American slave
Jan 08th 2015
334
this is precisely it.
Jan 08th 2015
364
the word "but" has no place in this convo.
Jan 08th 2015
324
What Is Charlie Hebdo?
Jan 08th 2015
325
I'm late as fuck, but I'll chip in my 2 cents anyway
Jan 08th 2015
327
333
Jan 08th 2015
333
There's freedom of speech but there's no freedom of consequence
Jan 08th 2015
329
WHere I'm at
Jan 08th 2015
332
pretty much and that's all there is to it
Jan 08th 2015
381
Fucking terrible
Jan 08th 2015
339
pretty much. nm
Jan 08th 2015
344
religion of peace.. lol
Jan 08th 2015
345
Activist implies Muslims lack belief in freedom of religion (swipe)
Jan 08th 2015
347
Funny thing if these words came from Case One talking about Xtainity
Jan 08th 2015
354
      yeah i'm kinda with you on this
Jan 08th 2015
356
      I just think people give em a pass because they are an oppressed minorit...
Jan 08th 2015
367
           :)
Jan 08th 2015
370
           Egggggszactly
Jan 08th 2015
376
           RE: I just think people give em a pass because they are an oppressed min...
Jan 08th 2015
408
      Dude, I have no dog in this fight...
Jan 08th 2015
382
didn't know this Charlie Hebdo thing even existed
Jan 08th 2015
350
It's about which dangerous criticism is worth aspiring to anyway
Jan 08th 2015
352
but this society is a very violent one
Jan 08th 2015
355
      RE: but this society is a very violent one
Jan 08th 2015
358
      Everyone is trying to force their views
Jan 08th 2015
363
           right, and muslims don't do that right?
Jan 08th 2015
366
                RE: right, and muslims don't do that right?
Jan 08th 2015
371
                exactly. people in here talking about "we are supporting the oppressed"
Jan 08th 2015
372
                     Its called cognitive dissonance...
Jan 08th 2015
377
                     RE: honestly, I don't even know what to say about America
Jan 08th 2015
380
                     Who is saying that? "we are supporting the oppressed"
Jan 08th 2015
378
                          start reading at 141.
Jan 08th 2015
379
                               You yourself should reread 141.
Jan 08th 2015
386
                                    I read what you wrote.
Jan 08th 2015
389
                                         This is by far the best thing you have written in this whole situation.
Jan 08th 2015
392
                                              I understand.
Jan 08th 2015
402
                Everyone is doing it. Re:355
Jan 08th 2015
374
      society is also very diverse
Jan 08th 2015
360
           ok, lets just go drop a bomb on all of the muslims
Jan 08th 2015
384
                RE: no, i don't want people to drop bombs
Jan 08th 2015
385
Honest question for all of the Charlie Hebdo readers or French OKP...
Jan 08th 2015
391
idk but they made a super offensive cartoon concerning Christians in Dec...
Jan 08th 2015
393
I am specifically asking about them attacking Isreal or Zionism and anti...
Jan 08th 2015
405
      I'm assuming yes
Jan 08th 2015
415
well i know they've made fun of Jean-Marie Le Pen plenty of times
Jan 08th 2015
407
I'm not french but:
Jan 08th 2015
413
they make plenty of cartoons re: India/pakistan/China/ etc.
Jan 08th 2015
414
"If women didn't wear shorts skirts they wouldn't get raped!" That's how...
Jan 08th 2015
394
did you see what (she was wearing?) (they were writing?)
Jan 08th 2015
395
My girl brought that angle last night
Jan 08th 2015
396
why should group A control their behavior
Jan 08th 2015
410
      I hear all of that, but group A has more to loose
Jan 08th 2015
433
"You can dress anyway you want, but there are consequences to dressing.....
Jan 08th 2015
397
Same here. I look forward to his reply.
Jan 08th 2015
399
that is nowhere near the same Truth...
Jan 08th 2015
411
      So your response to the bigotry and mosque burning is...killing cartooni...
Jan 08th 2015
434
Question: Anyone change their mind somewhat from the start of this post?
Jan 08th 2015
398
I think too often the idea of "changing one's mind" gets
Jan 08th 2015
400
^^^
Jan 08th 2015
406
      I hear you but fuck those guys. They were cowards.
Jan 08th 2015
417
           or if you think life in general is worthless
Jan 08th 2015
421
Well I'm a virulent racist now, so kind of yeah.
Jan 08th 2015
401
you weren't before?
Jan 08th 2015
412
      MOTHERFUCKER BEEN RACIST
Jan 08th 2015
442
I do not think anything will change globally,
Jan 08th 2015
404
I have... somewhat.
Jan 08th 2015
409
Nope. A bunch of folk are acting brand new & hypocritcal
Jan 08th 2015
416
      Both are victim blaming.
Jan 08th 2015
418
      two different things
Jan 08th 2015
419
      lol. What about raping a white woman telling a racist joke, lol
Jan 08th 2015
420
      a girl has no control over what a rapist finds provocative or attractive
Jan 08th 2015
423
           and there's method here?
Jan 08th 2015
426
                RE: and there's method here?
Jan 08th 2015
428
                     no one's playing naive here. they knew very well
Jan 08th 2015
430
                          my statements pertain to the cartoonist who provoked the situation
Jan 08th 2015
437
      LOL. Killing someone for something they express isn't always wrong?
Jan 08th 2015
425
           RE: LOL. Killing someone for something they express isn't always wrong?
Jan 08th 2015
427
                You made a distinction with the rape example by saying rape is always...
Jan 08th 2015
432
                     i cosign killing someone in self-defense
Jan 08th 2015
438
                          Moral midgetry, folks^
Jan 08th 2015
444
                               So I shouldn't bother to point out the short-sightedness
Jan 08th 2015
447
                               call it whatever you want, i dont feel sorry for'um.
Jan 08th 2015
450
                               RE: Moral midgetry, folks^
Jan 08th 2015
449
      what about the girl who gets naked and likes to tease dudes
Jan 08th 2015
422
      RE: what about the girl who gets naked and likes to tease dudes
Jan 08th 2015
424
           smh... that wasn't the question
Jan 08th 2015
440
                RE: smh... that wasn't the question
Jan 08th 2015
451
      Aaaargh!!!
Jan 08th 2015
436
      To a sane rational person none of those things require a violent respons...
Jan 08th 2015
439
           I don't live in fear and I don't need to degrade Islam to prove it
Jan 08th 2015
443
*looks at The Interview post*
Jan 08th 2015
445
RE: *looks at The Interview post*
Jan 08th 2015
446
same shit applies. EXCEPT lil kim doesnt have that rep
Jan 08th 2015
448
      RE: same shit applies. EXCEPT lil kim doesnt have that rep
Jan 08th 2015
452
      yes. we should accept that fucking w/ LEO may cause your death.
Jan 08th 2015
454
           RE: yes. we should accept that fucking w/ LEO may cause your death.
Jan 08th 2015
455
                correct.
Jan 08th 2015
459
      Don't mess with a bull whose capabilities are unknown
Jan 08th 2015
453
           oh no! lil kim may publicize my nude selfies!
Jan 08th 2015
456
                What if he messes with your money? Or career?
Jan 08th 2015
457
                     sir, ive been on okp for over 15 yrs. ppl have tried me
Jan 09th 2015
461
Why come Fox News drags this guy out for every Islamic issue?
Jan 08th 2015
458
Are our expectations of muslims that low?
Jan 09th 2015
460

Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 07:40 AM

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1. "Death toll is up to 12"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883
.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
27996 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 07:42 AM

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2. "ugh I could have dealt with the footage of the gunshots and them"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

running and getting in the getaway car. Now they showing pictures of the gun aimed at the policeman's head.

CNN is wiling

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
like on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/16stonevintage
follow on instagram: http://instagram.com/sixteenstone http://instagram.com/vintageblkmags/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67991 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 09:01 AM

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3. "they took out 2 or 3 frames from a point blank execution"
In response to Reply # 2


          

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
27996 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 10:20 AM

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9. "they initially showed the frame of the shooter with gun to officer's hea..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

right before the pulled the trigger. Then they blurred it out. Messed up my whole morning.

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
like on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/16stonevintage
follow on instagram: http://instagram.com/sixteenstone http://instagram.com/vintageblkmags/

  

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AnaStezia
Charter member
45338 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 09:02 AM

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4. "CNN is the only channel showing that."
In response to Reply # 2


          

The French news channels just show the rooftop video.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30357 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 10:22 AM

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11. "msnbc was showing it too"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Not the cop being shot. But they froze frame as the terrorist is standing over the cop

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Case_One
Charter member
54578 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 10:51 AM

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14. "BBC too."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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Binlahab
Charter member
182565 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 09:28 AM

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5. "Fuck with the bull, you get the horn"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Aka fat meat is greasy

Am I condoning murder, no. Murder is wrong. This is wrong. However, if you keep fucking with people who really will kill you and don't mind dying, you have to accept that this shit might happen


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 09:36 AM

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6. "this is true, but wait and see what the French do"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

won't be pretty. Gotta respect folks that are willing to pay that price for what they believe in though.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41172 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 10:18 AM

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8. "u actually dont have to respect them"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

> Gotta respect folks that are willing to pay
>that price for what they believe in though.

of course, u can do what u want but if u choose to respect them (and im talking about the perpetrators of this particular event), it says a lot about ur character imho

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 10:59 AM

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17. "Put up or shut up will never go out of style "
In response to Reply # 8
Wed Jan-07-15 11:03 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

I respect that mindset of commitment not those actions. The newspaper should have as well.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
3165 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 02:12 PM

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20. "The newspaper is the one who showed courage, you fool."
In response to Reply # 17


          

In regards to courage and conviction, publishing articles critical of Islam in France>>>>>>>>>massacring unarmed journalists who hurt your feelings.

You continue to make a strong claim for the title of OKP's dumbest poster.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67991 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 02:30 PM

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25. "I don't think the paper showed courage "
In response to Reply # 20


          

it's one thing to use cartoons to change perception or influence convo...

but this was just rude ignorant cartoons mocking a religion that we all know is down for whatever.

I never understood the need to degrade a religion like that..

I will joke a religion in a heartbeat in a controlled setting but no way would I go on live TV or print flyers mocking a religion.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 02:52 PM

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34. "Disagree-- the showed carelessness and absurd arrogance"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

All to prove what? They have talented illustrators? Muhammad had eye problems? What? What is the end game when you do something like that?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 02:21 PM

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22. "the paper should have been silenced by the threat of violence?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

you are a fucking idiot, dude.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 02:31 PM

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26. "Should have taken into account that their actions "
In response to Reply # 22
Wed Jan-07-15 02:39 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

could endanger their whole staff. You suggest they should have stayed the course which would have led to this outcome? They only had about two choices.

You would be willing to jeopardize lives to print a funny illustration of a man who couldn't even get into Mecca on his first visit? Yeah-- that makes me the idiot I guess.

At the very least-- knowing that they were playing with serious serious "push Israel into the sea" kind of fire-- maybe implement a telecommute policy after releasing an inflammatory picture.


______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:07 PM

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39. "refusing to be intimidated means just that. free expression, too."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

today it's your cartoon, tomorrow it's your mind.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:41 PM

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51. "No not exactly, you can think what you want"
In response to Reply # 39
Wed Jan-07-15 03:43 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

Like I said every one knows these people are serious. I wouldn't put my staff in harms way, but that's just me. What was their goal in publishing that material? Just to mock Islam? Was it worth it? They're free reap the rewards of their actions too.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:45 PM

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53. "far less than a cartoon?"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

you sound like a goddamn fool. even in shit like the labor movement, we don't really celebrate the violent aspects. what differs about these people standing up for the sanctity of a religious symbol from klansmen protecting the "purity" or "racial integrity" of their town by killing non-white who showed their faces in it?

murder is fucked. you probably couldn't kill an ant yourself, so stfu

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 04:08 PM

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74. "You sound a little emotional "
In response to Reply # 53
Wed Jan-07-15 04:09 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

We celebrate violence every Fourth of July and Thanksgiving. We are violent people, most of whom are the products of alcoholic Europeans from half a continent that had known nothing but violence for centuries and our history books do not disagree. End of story.

>you sound like a goddamn fool. even in shit like the labor
>movement, we don't really celebrate the violent aspects. what
>differs about these people standing up for the sanctity of a
>religious symbol from klansmen protecting the "purity" or
>"racial integrity" of their town by killing non-white who
>showed their faces in it?

Is the concept of whiteness a centuries upon centuries old belief system with ties to a divine encounter? That is the difference. Reverence for the representative of their deity vs reverence for what?-- skin color I'm guessing. That probably won't make sense if you don't believe in a higher power which these men clearly do.

>murder is fucked. you probably couldn't kill an ant yourself,
>so stfu

Yes, yes it is Brad, but it's not about one's willingness to kill it's about whether or not you're willing to die.


______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 05:26 PM

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119. "aw, how romantic"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

do you get your views and understanding of history out of fortune cookies?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 05:49 PM

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138. "The sound of crickets was a better response"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

You've said nothing with that remark.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10308 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:45 PM

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55. "Exactly"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>Like I said every one knows these people are serious. I
>wouldn't put my staff in harms way, but that's just me. What
>was their goal in publishing that material? Just to mock
>Islam? Was it worth it? They're free reap the rewards of their
>actions too.

That was terribly reckless and it wasn't even for a good reason. It was for laughs, giggles and disrespect at the expense of folks that have shown they're not gonna put up with that shit.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:47 PM

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58. "i mean some people will shoot you for looking at them for too long"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

should we admire them for commanding respect?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10308 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:55 PM

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67. "First off, I don't admire anyone that murders in the name of religion..."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

>should we admire them for commanding respect? <

I (imo) actually think it's fuckin crazy, but I'm not surprised by it. I think the problem stems from people down-playing these folks's outrage. The Prophet Muhammad may not be relevant to you, but he is to many.

Yeah, someone may shoot me for looking at them too long. This is the difference:

I could have been looking at them cause I thought I knew them.
I may be attracted to them or admiring an article of clothing.
I may have been looking past them entirely.
I may be blind.
etc.

I'm not sure that's the same as purposely creating a cartoon about someone's beloved religion, printing it in mass and distributing it all over the fuckin city or where ever the magazine runs.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67991 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 05:38 PM

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128. "yup.... but if you were warned to stop looking at a person or be killed...."
In response to Reply # 58


          

and you knew they had a rep, would you step your stare game up?

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:53 PM

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64. "laughs, giggles and disrespect at the expense of a disenfranchised"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

minority group that's been targeted for abuse from public and private actors for several yrs.

was it worth it?

'freedom of expression' means gov't cannot suppress expression of ideas in the public sphere. but it also includes freedom to experience consequence by private actors.

IMO considering the risk of violent action by private entities i don't think the expression was worthy. it was ill-advised, tasteless, thoughtless, mean-spirited, assholish, and wholly unnecessary.

however, the violent reaction was much more egregious and is not to be applauded or respected on any level.

fuck you.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10308 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:56 PM

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68. "RE: laughs, giggles and disrespect at the expense of a disenfranchised"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

>however, the violent reaction was much more egregious and is
>not to be applauded or respected on any level.<

Agreed

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 04:30 PM

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88. "gospel."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

>minority group that's been targeted for abuse from public and
>private actors for several yrs.
>
>was it worth it?
>
>'freedom of expression' means gov't cannot suppress expression
>of ideas in the public sphere. but it also includes freedom
>to experience consequence by private actors.
>
>IMO considering the risk of violent action by private entities
>i don't think the expression was worthy. it was ill-advised,
>tasteless, thoughtless, mean-spirited, assholish, and wholly
>unnecessary.
>
>however, the violent reaction was much more egregious and is
>not to be applauded or respected on any level.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37200 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 07:13 PM

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188. "you're confusing first amendment protections with the freedom"
In response to Reply # 64


          

of expression.

>'freedom of expression' means gov't cannot suppress expression
>of ideas in the public sphere. but it also includes freedom
>to experience consequence by private actors.

the first amendment only protects people from government intervention but conceptually the freedom of expression is a broad human right.

i guess you don't agree with that, but they're really not the same thing.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:27 PM

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192. "oh, stfu."
In response to Reply # 188
Wed Jan-07-15 07:30 PM by SoWhat

  

          

i don't give a fuck about the freedom of expression in the context of this story. i'm more concerned w/the mistreatment of brown ppl in Europe and i see this puerile cartoon as part of that mistreatment. and the fact that so many are more interested in standing up to protect an ideal that is not in danger while the health and safety and FREEDOM of non-whites in Europe is very much in jeopardy is appalling TO ME IN MY OPINION.

so fuck that. i don't give a shit about freedom of expression or the difference between it and freedom of speech.

thank you very much for the whitesplanation though.

fuck you.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37200 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 07:34 PM

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198. "lol goddam you are in your feelings again"
In response to Reply # 192


          

"i'm not interested in the murder of political cartoonists as it pertains to freedom of expression."

brilliant.

i'm basically being called a racist for valuing freedom of speech by a person who isn't a complete idiot. this is absolutely fantastic. you'd be an awful poker player you tilt so badly.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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SoWhat
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200. "you're siding w/racist xenophobes...so"
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

yeah.

birds of a feather.

and all that jazz.

fuck you.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:42 PM

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206. "nope. i'm siding with freedom of speech."
In response to Reply # 200


          

and i'm siding with respecting humanity and yourself enough that you would never consider resorting to murder over a cartoon.

i'm pretty happy on this side.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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SoWhat
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208. "great."
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

fuck you.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:38 PM

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201. "you do realize"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

That the gunmen just did more to make life worse for French Muslims than the magazine ever did or even could, right?

If thats your biggest concern, id have expected you to ride the hardest against them. Because they just sent French Muslims back to 9/12/01.

  

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SoWhat
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202. "k."
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

fuck you.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 08:33 PM

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240. "that's kind of a fact-truth argument though"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

Yes, you're right about the impact of their actions on Muslim/Non-Muslim relations in France. But I don't find anything inconsistent about SoWhat's position. Wrong, maybe, but not inconsistent

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:21 PM

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155. "Where was that bravado when the Germans came?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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cgonz00cc
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252. "question: how do distinguish which oppression is funny?"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 11:07 PM

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313. "My question is fair and it's interesting that "
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

When an army comes to take over their country they fold, but to not disparage the belief system of another group-- that's what they choose to stand defiantly against? German aggression equals white flag but hate towards Islam equals we will not be bullied?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Jan-08-15 10:09 AM

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368. "who is "they?""
In response to Reply # 313
Thu Jan-08-15 10:09 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

and are you buying into this historical narrative that Europe and also its targeted groups just rolled over for Germany? go fuck yourself, dude, seriously.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 02:20 PM

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21. "Uh, I do?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

First of all, they are not going to pay the price, a bunch of well-meaning, everyday people who are Muslim are going to pay a big ass price in France.

Second of all, no, I don't have to respect people who ambush and office and murder a dozen people. I mean, at least with 9/11, while it wasn't "respectable," I thought it was erroneous to call the hijackers "cowards," because they pulled off a complicated plan and sacrificed their own lives to do it.

These guys are just a bunch of touchy pussies with guns that went in and executed people. There is nothing respectable about that.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 02:46 PM

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31. "Sorry man-- that's what it looks like when people "
In response to Reply # 21
Wed Jan-07-15 02:48 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

are really serious about something. I know we all want to believe in holding hands and signs and such, but that doesn't build nations and can't defend anything.

Just go back to drinking the kool aid and be glad black folks aren't that serious.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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40. "lol, you are such a reader's digest revolutionary"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67991 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:18 PM

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45. "you don't think they pulled off a sophisticated plan? "
In response to Reply # 21


          

these dudes are still on the loose.. pretty impressive for such a large scale attack that was caught on cameras

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 03:23 PM

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47. "well i suppose they did, but not as sophisticated or self sacrificial"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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guru0509
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12. "smh"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Case_One
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Wed Jan-07-15 10:53 AM

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15. "So, it's ok for cops can kill people for talking crap too huh? "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 11:04 AM

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18. "You know it's not that simple "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 02:22 PM

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23. "actually, it is."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

cops resent anyone who doesn't back them 100%, these guys resent anyone who doesn't back the sanctity of their religious symbols 100%. both respond with violence. one is just a world away and somehow romantic to your pea brain.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 02:35 PM

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27. "Religion === Policing ?"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

does not compute. Must be these tiny pea sized hamster wheels in my brain. I'd agree that some cats are religious about their policing, but that's about as far as I'd go.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 03:09 PM

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41. "in terms of misguided fervor and willingness to kill? yes, apparently."
In response to Reply # 27
Wed Jan-07-15 03:09 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

actually religion is much worse.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Binlahab
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33. "No it's not ok to kill. That's why murder is wrong."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Thanks.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 02:35 PM

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28. "wow"
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Jan-07-15 02:36 PM by initiationofplato

          

Don't even know how to respond to that so I'll assume you are trolling.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Wed Jan-07-15 02:45 PM

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30. "Pretty much. I understand freedom of speech and all that shit..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

but folks are reckless as fuck. You put a target on your own back, don't get mad when someone shoots at that shit. Same with that stupid ass Interview movie that folks wanted to see so bad.

Stop poking and prodding people, just to act like a victim later when you get fucked up. Of course I don't think folks should die over a cartoon. I certainly wouldn't kill anyone over a cartoon...but we should all be clear that there are plenty of folks who will. Call them crazy, radical or whatever. They'll still kill your ass.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 03:11 PM

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42. "there are people who would kill you for all types of petty shit"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

we have to let them guide our actions now?

shit i am in a country where you could have someone killed over absolutely nothing for less than a hundred bucks. is that what guides our moral compasses and decides our actions now? the lowest common denominators and craziest fucking outliers?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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teefiveten
Member since Oct 02nd 2008
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Wed Jan-07-15 03:12 PM

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43. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

.

*************************************
like.me
http://tinyurl.com/3z8486u

"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Wed Jan-07-15 03:25 PM

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49. "Yeah, there are people that will kill you for all types of shit, so you...."
In response to Reply # 42
Wed Jan-07-15 03:26 PM by BlassFemur

  

          

should probably consider using common sense before doing stupid, unnecessary bullshit that sparks outrage and is rooted in disrespect. These muthafuckas didn't release that cartoon thinking it would bring people closer together. They were out there purposely fuckin with someone's religion and obviously weren't really considering the ramifications of it. That's their bad. They ain't innocent.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:32 PM

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123. "jesus christ."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 08:40 PM

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249. "o ok so now people have to be innocent to be wronged"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

i swear to god for all the "x is different from y" shit you hear, the real difference is perspective and power. i bet you werent kickin this innocence bullshit when unarmed kids who stole cigars or drank lean were getting shot. PROPORTION. under no circumstances does an INSULT justify in any way a MURDER.

and i'm sick of this "well it's not right, but ..." bullshit in this thread. no. there is right and wrong. there is proportionate, commensurate, appropriate responses to wrongs. a blood bath does not qualify.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Wed Jan-07-15 10:56 PM

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311. "RE: o ok so now people have to be innocent to be wronged"
In response to Reply # 249
Wed Jan-07-15 10:58 PM by BlassFemur

  

          

>RE: o ok so now people have to be innocent to be wronged<

Did I say that or are you being emotional? I literally typed that I don't think anyone should be killed over a cartoon and that I would never kill anyone over a cartoon. I also said I think killing in the name of religion is crazy. Not sure what more you want.

They were definitely wronged. They should not have been killed. BUT they sure did their part to make it happen.

>i swear to god for all the "x is different from y" shit you
>hear, the real difference is perspective and power. i bet you
>werent kickin this innocence bullshit when unarmed kids who
>stole cigars or drank lean were getting shot. PROPORTION.
>under no circumstances does an INSULT justify in any way a
>MURDER.
>

Great, but newsflash...I didn't justify any murders. I said their reckless, filthy magazine was a dumb idea and helped get them killed. And it's the truth. Maybe it's in bad taste to say it the same day that it happened, but it's the truth nonetheless. Had they not prodded and publicly taunted people who are known to threaten/ violence in retaliation for disrespecting their religion (again, the majority don't), they'd probably be here now. The world wasn't begging for that shit. The world wasn't begging to see a cartoon Muhammed getting sodomized. If they hadn't published it the world would have went on like it always does. But they wanted to be funny and get laughs at the expense of people that have been used as punching bags for the last what...14 years or so? And on top of that, people were already threatening them. Come on dude, that's reckless as shit. I'm not justifying the killings. I obviously wish it didn't happen, but it's not cowardly to NOT disrespect a group in a newspaper.

And people don't give a damn about your freedom of speech. We're all acting real naive right now.

>and i'm sick of this "well it's not right, but ..." bullshit
>in this thread. no. there is right and wrong. there is
>proportionate, commensurate, appropriate responses to wrongs.
>a blood bath does not qualify.

Be sick of it then.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Jan-08-15 10:08 AM

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365. "you, like everyone else here, is trying to euphemize "just" w/"expected""
In response to Reply # 311


  

          

it's not fair but they should have seen it coming is not a far cry from "they had it coming."

if it was a group you more sympathetic toward, you'd see it differently. people's biases are just out of hand in this thread.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10308 posts
Thu Jan-08-15 04:01 PM

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429. "RE: you, like everyone else here, is trying to euphemize "just" w/"expec..."
In response to Reply # 365


  

          

>it's not fair but they should have seen it coming is not a
>far cry from "they had it coming."
>

Okay, that's fine with me. You can interpret it anyway you like. It does not change my view of the situation. If they were hell-bent on running that comic, even after being threatened, then yeah they should have seen that shit coming and I believe the owner did indeed say he knew there was a risk. That still does not mean they DESERVED TO DIE. It's saying the knowingly put themselves in harms way and probably should have taken the threat more seriously. Like I said earlier...that's their bad. They were reckless and got themselves killed in the process.

>if it was a group you more sympathetic toward, you'd see it
>differently. people's biases are just out of hand in this
>thread.

I'm sure you're even qualified to make a statement about what I would or wouldn't do.

Again, it does not matter if you believe in freedom of speech. The person pointing that gun at you may not. And at that point it really doesn't matter what the law says or how you WISH everyone else respected your right to it. We've all seen people take an L for exercising their free speech. This is nothing new.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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makaveli
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Wed Jan-07-15 02:59 PM

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38. "that's cool"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32469 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 06:16 PM

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148. "how is this just casually floated out there?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>people who really will kill
>you and don't mind dying

This is the crux of the matter. This is rhe only aspect of the whole situation worth in depth examination.

How is that just so casually validated as an acceptable state of being?

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Jan-07-15 08:11 PM

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224. "is there nothing in your life worth dying for?"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

i think thats a shitty state of being


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 08:44 PM

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251. "that is such a bullshit action movie view of the world"
In response to Reply # 224


  

          

and we aren't talking about someone who died protecting something, we are talking about people who willfully plotted a dead-end game with a lot of death involved. let's not put these assailants on the same level as slave rebellions or holocaust resistors, mmmkay? there are things i would die for, but what some needledick with a pencil thinks of my god ain't one of them.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 10:55 PM

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310. "Tell that to George Washington, Teddy Rosevelt, and"
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

Andrew Jackson who shot a man for disrespecting his wife. Seems to be the way the world works.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Thu Jan-08-15 04:09 PM

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431. "so common that youre digging up 300-year-old examples"
In response to Reply # 310


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32469 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 09:30 PM

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286. "lol look at John McClane over here"
In response to Reply # 224


  

          

When life itself is not at risk, no. I see no circumstance i could kill someone ocer and then feel afterwards lilr i accomplished something great.

This is not that.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Thu Jan-08-15 01:07 AM

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331. "THe editor said he'd rather be dead than stop after the bombing "
In response to Reply # 5
Thu Jan-08-15 01:08 AM by ndibs

          

A few yrs ago. So he basically agreed. A child shouldn't have been in that office tho. I'm judging the hell out of that mother.

  

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jswerve386
Member since Jun 25th 2007
8973 posts
Thu Jan-08-15 07:41 AM

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348. "if they dont like freedom of speech tell them "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

to go back to their own shithole countries. maybe the nationalists are at the least partially right.. fuck that shitty religion.

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 09:45 AM

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7. "Ugly and the fallout will be ugly, too. SMH"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-07-15 09:46 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30357 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 10:21 AM

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10. "Just saw the liveleak cop execution video. Brutal shit man"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

From a few other videos I've seen these guys look calm and measured. Not just firing shots all willy nilly. Wouldnt surprise me at all of theyve seen combat somewhere before



Wonder if police over there have assault rifles in the trunk like US cops do. Might be time to get up on that if they havent already

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 10:50 AM

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13. "wow."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-07-15 10:57 AM by SoWhat

  

          

but...i mean, the French gov't is generally pretty awful toward Muslims in France based on stories i vaguely recall. like them trying to ban wearing of nijab in public spaces, for example.

still...DAMN.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/02/world/europe/european-rights-court-upholds-frances-ban-on-full-face-veils.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Aw%2C{%221%22%3A%22RI%3A6%22}&_r=0

fuck you.

  

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BigReg
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62. "Yeah, it's going to get awful over there "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

particularly since that wierd 'America, Fuck Year' nationalism streak is imho worse over there because they are so protective of their culture in the scheme of a larger Europe.


  

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SoWhat
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66. "agreed."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Thu Jan-08-15 01:20 AM

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335. "RE: wow."
In response to Reply # 13
Thu Jan-08-15 01:24 AM by Tommy-B

  

          

yeah, so murder 12 people who work at a small magazine! that'll show the evil french government how wrong they are for rescinding our right to cloak and dehumanise our women!

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Case_One
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16. "I wonder how the French are going to respond."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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19. "We sell them weapons for a reason"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

And it will be 10 to 100 times as worse as this whatever it is.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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24. "with violence, racism, xenophobia, etc."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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29. "You know ahhhhh"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

stuff that white people like

Somethin' badass!!

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Deadzombie
Member since Aug 21st 2008
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351. "perfect. "
In response to Reply # 29


          

  

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Red07
Member since Oct 19th 2005
482 posts
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373. "RE: You know ahhhhh"
In response to Reply # 29


          

awesome repsonse

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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32. "Yup. They'll consider no other options I'm sure."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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Goldmind
Member since Oct 28th 2004
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36. "With an iron, racist fist"
In response to Reply # 16


          

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
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70. "Islam is a race?"
In response to Reply # 36


          

Cause I didn't now you could convert to or deconvert from race....

  

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ShinobiShaw
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"man you know what he means. "


  

          

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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cgonz00cc
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167. "that wont cut it. the distinction is important."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Wed Jan-07-15 09:07 PM

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264. "no it's not"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

because Arab bodies have become racialized, in particular since 9-11, but even before then if we're being historically honest.

it's something I have constantly had to explain in conversations about race. When we only look at race in terms of the binary of Black and White in the west, we contribute to the marginality and erasure of people who are of other immigrant nationalities and ethnicities that have become racialized within the building of a particular nation state.

racilization is the process of making people other, in 2014 it's not only relegated to those in the African diaspora, and never was in the context countries in the colonial west

Islam is not a race, but Islam is tied to Arabs, who are interpolated as "Brown Bodies" in popular representations and discourse, therefore they are racialized

if we want to be specific and call if Islamophobia or xenophobia, so be it, but at it's root it's racism, just like talks about regions in the borderlands of the American southwest concerning immigrants are racist

  

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cgonz00cc
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290. "very true. i think i responded to something they werent talking about."
In response to Reply # 264


  

          

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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299. "RE: no it's not"
In response to Reply # 264
Wed Jan-07-15 09:58 PM by Tommy-B

  

          

nah

discriminating against islam is not racist. however, discriminating against people with "brown bodies" because of the colour of their body is. white people can be muslims too, so your argument falls through

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Wed Jan-07-15 10:11 PM

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304. "one, re-read what I wrote"
In response to Reply # 299


  

          

and discrimination is not the only component of racism

and two, no Islam/Arab body is read as white, particularly in this INTERNATIONAL cultural climate, which is why Sikhs are constantly at the end of racist assaults, because racism allows brown bodies, that are not Arab or Muslim to be, to be drawn into the collective racist imaginary.

the particulars or Islam as a religion, of Arabs as a varied and nuanced ethnic group, are lost on the social component of acts of racist aggressions on the micro or macro level

  

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Goldmind
Member since Oct 28th 2004
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Thu Jan-08-15 11:35 AM

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388. "Did I say it was a race? "
In response to Reply # 70


          

Do you think that Muslims are the only ones who will face abuse?

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 02:53 PM

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35. "This is obviously the work of mad men."
In response to Reply # 0


          

The terrorists accomplish nothing with this act except further suffering for the people whom practice Islam in an open and democratic society.

Going after cartoonist's is the most asinine and senseless thing these people could have done.

Clearly they do not have a concept of satire, nor are they true practitioners of Islam. If you study Islam you know it is non violent at its core. A "Jihad" is not a war on "infidels" or "non believers", it is a war on your "personal demons", it has zero to do with external influences or people. They have clearly interpreted Islam in a way which is governed by political agenda.

Calling god's name while killing people is revolting. All they did was further tarnish Islam and its believers. This act will not stop satire from occurring. It was short sighted and will create more problems.

  

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SoWhat
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37. "for sure."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67991 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:16 PM

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44. "of course they are mad... "
In response to Reply # 35


          

but they also looked real calm and cool like a special ops unit.

I bet they are back in Iran or Syria already..

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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109. "actually they may drive more people to their cause"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

and I bet folks in France will think twice about running another cartoon. I want to say the Dutch won't be playing that number at the roulette table again either.

If violence wasn't effective people wouldn't resort to it.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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302. "RE: actually they may drive more people to their cause"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

you're sounding like a weak, pitiful man

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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308. "You're right"
In response to Reply # 302


  

          

There is absolutely no way this could be used by radicals to further their cause. It just doesn't work like that does it? Someone in the Middle East with nothing to loose will see this and say "those people are crazy-- no way I'd do that".

Funny how the guy who jumps in with name calling wants to paint someone else as pitiful.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Tommy-B
Member since Mar 03rd 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 11:14 PM

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316. "RE: You're right"
In response to Reply # 308


  

          

i don't give a fuck about it "furthering" any cause.

i just think it's pitiful when people jump in to defend a bunch of nihilistic, psychopathic murderers and then say, "bet they won't mess with THEM again!" and gain some sort of glee from it.

If you're innocent, be cool.
Only the guilty's catchin' offence.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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330. "You won't see me smiling next to a hung corpse"
In response to Reply # 316


  

          

Not sure what you thought was gleeful about my response.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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stayls
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403. "Pretty much."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

Stayls aka Peaches Cochran (THE REAL STAYLS)

Yes Natty!

Don't try to downplay Pac and get mad because MC Underground with his complicated flows and lyrics can't move a crowd even if he pointed a gun at them. -Clash Sic

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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46. "Da fuck is wrong with "Admire their dedication" dumb fucks in here?"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-07-15 03:45 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

It's the stupidest most asinine thing I could possibly hear coming out of a black man's mouth.

We suppose to admire the conviction of Klan Members now?

Emmett Till should have known better than to poke that hornets nest of street hollering at a white woman?

MLK and Malcolm X should have known it was coming with the turf of speaking out can get you killed?


Y'all really so ideologically programmed that you can't see that there are a gazillion instances where anyone can turn your arguments around and reframe then to make y'all look like dumbasses?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:25 PM

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48. "b-b-b-b-b-but it's different!"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

i'm glad you said it, because i was certainly thinking it.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BigReg
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50. "LOL. Murdering your wife in a jealous rage takes conviction!"
In response to Reply # 46
Wed Jan-07-15 03:43 PM by BigReg

  

          

she knew she shouldda had that meal hot when I got home: it's her fault for testing me!

  

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teefiveten
Member since Oct 02nd 2008
33019 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:47 PM

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57. "the amount of LOVE you show that turns into murderous obsession???"
In response to Reply # 50
Wed Jan-07-15 04:04 PM by teefiveten

  

          

not many folks can achieve that!

*************************************
like.me
http://tinyurl.com/3z8486u

"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
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59. "baby, i beat you during sex out of PASSION. "
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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Wed Jan-07-15 04:03 PM

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71. "note: ppl beat their children out of LOVE."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

^ strawman.

but yeah.

fuck you.

  

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Binladen
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Wed Jan-07-15 04:21 PM

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85. "If you don't do what God says, you burn for eternity. "
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 04:37 PM

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91. "No one said they were right in their actions"
In response to Reply # 50
Wed Jan-07-15 04:39 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

one can't be right in conviction but wrong in action?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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teefiveten
Member since Oct 02nd 2008
33019 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:41 PM

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52. "cowards. im absolutely dumbfounded"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

.

*************************************
like.me
http://tinyurl.com/3z8486u

"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

  

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makaveli
Charter member
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54. "this place is so weird"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:46 PM

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56. "where? earth? it sure is."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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makaveli
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63. "okayplayer is a microcosm of earth I guess"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

So, yes.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:48 PM

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60. "^ Poignant. You smashed every idiotic argument in here. Nice work."
In response to Reply # 46


          

  

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Mongo
Member since Oct 26th 2005
45670 posts
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61. "MESS WITH THE BULL GET THE OKP LOGIC. "
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
2420 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 03:57 PM

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69. "lol"
In response to Reply # 61


          

  

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Mynoriti
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104. "haha"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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ShinobiShaw
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164. "lol"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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SoWhat
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65. "wait. no."
In response to Reply # 46
Wed Jan-07-15 04:13 PM by SoWhat

  

          

i think Bin meant that the poking of the bull was ill-advised.

of course those ppl should be and are perfectly free to poke the bull. but...i mean, it's a bull.

and in this case it's a caged bull that's been terrorized and picked on by the zookeepers.

so yeah...go poke it if you want.

and don't act brand new when he jumps bad on you.

he phrased it coarsely but i mostly agree w/him.

that magazine's decision to go at Islam the way it did was awful and completely unnecessary.

and, of course, the ppl who committed this violence are not a bull. they're ppl who should and do know better - especially if they actually practice Islam. and what they did shouldn't be excused as just part of their nature in the way we'd excuse the bull for attacking the poking person.

so his statement was ham-fisted and coarse and insensitive. and i guess i don't agree w/it b/c these terrorists are not a bull - they're terrorists.

but i don't stand by that magazine's decision to publish those cartoons either.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-07-15 04:12 PM

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76. "I'm not into name calling but my pledge got me short fused. "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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Wed Jan-07-15 04:15 PM

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78. "i disagree w/the magazine's decision "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

and i think it was outrageously offensive and flat-out stupid to publish those cartoons.

but the violence is more unacceptable.

i'm not down w/painting the magazine as innocent in this.

fuck you.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 05:39 PM

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130. "i wouldnt have run them, but i stand by their right to their own decisio..."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

even people who say things i dont like, i hate that they are being shouted down and forced to go away. if bigots can speak freely, they are a lot easier to identify. at least let me know what i am dealing with.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:42 PM

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132. "rights aren't at issue here."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

no one disputes the magazine's right to publish the cartoons.

the violence against the magazine is deplorable. the cartoons are puerile and the publishing of those cartoons was reprehensible.

fuck you.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71326 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 07:51 PM

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214. "you're so eager to make that distinction over and over."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

but part of freedom of expression goes beyond just preventing the government from fettering or censoring speech, it also has to do with protecting them from violence that may arise. technically everyone in mexico is "free" to say or report whatever the fuck they want about cartels. but the press and citizenry alike there are, in reality, very much not free to express themselves or even convey factual information.

seeing the cartoons now, they are tasteless but you could run them about just about any other religion (even marginalized ones within French society) and not fear this type of reprisal.

you're working hard to make this grayer than it really is, and i am sure you disagree with that statement vehemently.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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SoWhat
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216. "fantastic."
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

fuck you.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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230. "i'm thrilled you didnt take the opportunity to repeat yourself"
In response to Reply # 216


  

          

we get it, you think murdering a dozen people including a cop who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time is an understandable response by individuals who are part of a group that was kicked while they were down. cool. bully for you.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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bonitaapplebaum71481
Member since Aug 04th 2003
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Thu Jan-08-15 07:44 AM

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349. "I mean sure you could mock other religions but for the most part...."
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

your global version of Islam is pretty strict but you have a vast majority of people who choose to follow it. Some follow it correctly and others subvert it for their own cause, also not unlike other religions. A leading difference I would say is that at least in Islam, their language very clearly dictates the lengths their followers must go for the cause. It's not so much like Christianity where we've had revisions upon revisions so now we can just brush them away as old mythology.

You also have to consider that in France, the Islamic people's religious freedom has already been downsized and treated as irrelevant; and this is in regard to innocuous things as simple as religious dress. Now add a tasteless newspaper while they had all the right, I'm pretty sure they received more than one warning from offended extremist parties. But they kept at it.

One of our favorite expressions is "show 'em better than you can tell 'em" and unfortunately one group finally did. If this wasn't an opportunity for a mutual respect of religious differences and perhaps one day, tolerance. I don't know what is.

As far as my feelings go however, when you have a large group of people with a long history of oppression that goes unheeded, how can you not give dissenting voices and actions any kind of credence?

*shrug*

"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on fire" -Bin

www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
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DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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75. "no man, we're supposed to speak the same language "
In response to Reply # 46
Wed Jan-07-15 04:20 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

and violence is the language. Or have you not noticed? You have seen Malcolm looking out the window with the AK right? Martin supposedly kept a pistol.

Did Emmit holler at that woman? I don't know, but white women aren't considered the prophets of God-- and if folks can't understand it on that level then there can be no understanding. I know it's the lowest hanging fruit to try and compare white supremacy to Islam, but guess what? Ain't nobody facing Europe three times a day to pray to whiteness.

These dudes are twisted, but they don't make idle threats and they're willing to put their lives on the line for their wrong (IMO), but very personal beliefs. How many Klansmen lost their lives defending the so called purity of their so called race?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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127. "i'm standing in this line"
In response to Reply # 46


          

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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72. "I don't think they deserved to be murdered "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-07-15 04:07 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

but those cartoons were extremely insensitive, ignorant and fairly racist and misogynist too.

Folks in here acting like these guys were writing intelligent critiques of the excesses of Islam as a religion.

The cartoons were ignorant, bratty and deliberately provocative.

http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/01/in-the-wake-of-charlie-hebdo-free-speech-does-not-mean-freedom-from-criticism/

They wanted to get a response... they got it.

I don't endorse it, obviously. This is terrible, wrong, barbaric.

But like Bin said above... fat meat is greasy.

May their souls rest in peace and may their murderers be brought to justice.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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initiationofplato
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73. "In a society where media glorifies violence, death, and drug use"
In response to Reply # 72


          

we draw the line at cartoons.

Got it.

  

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SoWhat
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77. "i draw a line at depictions of the prophet."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

especially considering the position of Muslims in France and Europe generally.

it's just mean-spirited and unnecessary to publish depictions of the prophet knowing how it can upset/enrage that population given the way they're treated.

it'd be different if this had happened in a place where the Muslims aren't stepped on as much as they seem to be stepped on over there.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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82. "Same goes for Fundamentalist over here, you can't co-exist in a pluralis..."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

society if expressions of critical ideas drives you to murder.

You can throw a hissy fit like Giuliani and the pissed covered Jesus (or was it virgin mary?). You can protest.

But murderous revenge can't be part of the conversation.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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83. "Did you actually look at the cartoons?"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

Where exactly are the "critical ideas" there?

It's just simple, juvenile, racist disrespect... over and over again.

_____________________

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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102. "I did. Like I said before, one critical idea is that if you live in..."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

a pluralistic society, you got to get use to OTHERS not respecting YOUR faith's dictates like don't depict the prophet.

Again, Pluralism and Intolerance can't co-exist. One of them will eventually give. Which one do YOU want to go away?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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105. "You don't think Charlie's pretty intolerant in this case too?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          


>Again, Pluralism and Intolerance can't co-exist. One of them
>will eventually give. Which one do YOU want to go away?

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:37 PM

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126. "intolerant of what?"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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136. "murder is intolorence. being critical and satirizing"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

Is not.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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243. "I mean the core question is how much rigidity can a religion have ..."
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

within a secular state.

My answer is not much. If your religion commands you to do crazy ass shit--like hold slaves or stone people--then fuck it and fuck you. We're all trying to LIVE.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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SoWhat
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107. "Charlie had the right to publish those cartoons but "
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

publishing those cartoons wasn't the right thing to do.

i will defend Charlie's right to publish the cartoons all day. meaning if the gov't was trying to shut it down i'd defend Charlie.

but i'd have advised Charlie not to publish b/c it wasn't right.

fuck you.

  

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SoWhat
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86. "no, it doesn't."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

b/c Xtians aren't disenfranchised here like the Muslims are relatively disenfranchised over there.

plus even the fundamentalist Xtians don't flip out over depictions of Jesus like the extremist Muslims freak over depicitions of the Prophet.

it's not really the same thing.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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97. "I am not sure how or what you are disagreeing with me about. "
In response to Reply # 86


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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99. "going at Jesus in NYC != going at the Prophet in Paris."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

Xtians have more power in NYC than Muslims do in Paris.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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114. "I don't see how the distinction you are making makes a difference."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

>Xtians have more power in NYC than Muslims do in Paris.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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120. "ok."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

fuck you.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Wed Jan-07-15 09:11 PM

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269. "then you are saying you don't understand race and class"
In response to Reply # 114
Wed Jan-07-15 09:13 PM by astralblak

  

          

formation, if you don't "get" SW's distinction

power is fundamental in all social things

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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353. "I think that's a stupid distinction then. "
In response to Reply # 269


  

          

If you are saying that it's understandable that some people act in facist and intolerant ways because they are underprivileged or oppressed.

Fuck that moral relativism. Y'all sound like Dick Cheney. It's okay if we do deplorable things, we are the righteous one!

Miss me with that.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Atillah Moor
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115. "Plus Christians believe Jesus gets the last laugh"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

so there's that

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 04:32 PM

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89. "French humor is generally very crass/low brow and mean spirited"
In response to Reply # 77
Wed Jan-07-15 04:45 PM by initiationofplato

          

The French also like their way of life and will fight tooth and nail to keep it. Asking a French man on French soil to change on a "foreigner's" behalf is laughable.

Muslims in Europe have made demands which tread on very old traditions, and I think this is part of the reason tensions have risen so quickly. Many Muslims emigrate to other nations and expect the laws to change on their behalf, always under the banner of god. That leaves little room for negotiation.

In other nations such as Australia, the government simply stated that Muslims can leave if they don't like the Australian way of life. The French are clearly not as polite, and never will be.

Are the comics a bit over the top by Muslim standards? Definitely. Are they too much according to French customs and humor? Not at all. A French man should have the right to be who he is on his own soil without consequence. I think emigrating Muslims should study and embrace the customs of the countries they are emigrating to, instead of expecting the laws to change based on their religion, or ultimately turning to extremism when they do not.

Edit: Muslims should respect host country customs especially when they are fleeing their home Muslim nations which are riddled with violence and corruption.

I would never go into your house and rearrange the furniture, or take pictures off your walls because they do not correspond with my views/faith, so why should the French?

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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90. "I read a fair amount of bd"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

so I get what you mean about the French sense of humor.

Some of this shit still crosses the line, I think. But of course, I'm not French. However, I do understand what it is to be a downtrodden minority in a country whose dominant culture is dedicated to disrespecting you at every turn.

As for that stuff about "emigrating Muslims" having to toe the line when they come to France... fuck that shit.

France reaped a fuck-ton of wealth from colonialism and now when their former colonial subjects move to France, they're supposed to act like the French are doing them a massive favor by letting them exist?

Doesn't France actually still tax some of its former colonies for the benefits of colonialism that they continue to enjoy?

Fuck that.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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SoWhat
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98. "oh hell no."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

> A French man should have the right to be
>who he is on his own soil without consequence.

w/o consequence from the government, maybe.

but they aren't free from consequence from private citizens.

I think
>emigrating Muslims should study and embrace the customs of the
>countries they are emigrating to, instead of expecting the
>laws to change based on their religion, or ultimately turning
>to extremism when they do not.

most Muslims don't turn to extremism when they have cultural conflict. they typically voice their concern in other venues - including in court.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/

>I would never go into your house and rearrange the furniture,
>or take pictures off your walls because they do not correspond
>with my views/faith, so why should the French?

if i allow you move in to my house so that it's OUR house and not just mine, i wouldn't poke and prod and ridicule you and make your life in our home miserable. and if i did you'd have some recourse against me w/the government. you could call the police, for instance. but if you're in a situation where the police won't respond to you or where the police join me in picking and prodding at you...what's left for you? i mean, it's clear i'm trying to force you out of our house b/c i don't want you there though i invited you or allowed you to move in. i clearly want you out and am using passive aggression to get it done b/c i'm that much of an asshole. i don't think my action is really defensible. and if you were to jump me one day in our house that i've made a living hell for you through my passive and assertive aggression...what's left for you? you shouldn't get violent w/me but if you do? i mean.... you ain't right but i'm not exactly blameless. i would be well-advised to consider the role i played in creating the situation.

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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103. "*B-3 Hammond swirls*"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          


>if i allow you move in to my house so that it's OUR house and
>not just mine, i wouldn't poke and prod and ridicule you and
>make your life in our home miserable. and if i did you'd have
>some recourse against me w/the government. you could call the
>police, for instance. but if you're in a situation where the
>police won't respond to you or where the police join me in
>picking and prodding at you...what's left for you? i mean,
>it's clear i'm trying to force you out of our house b/c i
>don't want you there though i invited you or allowed you to
>move in. i clearly want you out and am using passive
>aggression to get it done b/c i'm that much of an asshole. i
>don't think my action is really defensible. and if you were
>to jump me one day in our house that i've made a living hell
>for you through my passive and assertive aggression...what's
>left for you? you shouldn't get violent w/me but if you do?
>i mean.... you ain't right but i'm not exactly blameless. i
>would be well-advised to consider the role i played in
>creating the situation.

_____________________

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:00 PM

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176. "You made a few fair points, however"
In response to Reply # 98


          

The French have always been a crass bunch. They had every right to print and create the satirical cartoons in question. If you do not like French humor, ignore it. A cartoon does not strip you off your rights or take food out of your mouth. It certainly did not condone a massacre and it does not warrant blood. There is not a single human being alive that takes satire seriously. Why are Muslims so insecure about their beliefs?

The terrorists exposed themselves as barbaric and senseless, and tarnished the name of all Muslims, which will be irreversible in France. Expect a heightened sense of paranoia, suspicion, and discrimination from the French public and government. The response will be harsh and cruel. I sincerely doubt France will open their doors to Muslims in the future.

Many Muslim immigrants are fleeing corrupt, unstable countries, where ancient and barbaric laws still govern. Where the threat of death in the name of god still looms. If you enter a nation such as France, which provides you with freedom, good health care, and opportunity, is it wise to expect and demand French officials to change laws based on your religious beliefs? Laws which the French sacrificed millions of lives to establish?

Immigrants are not citizens.

Dealing with an offensive cartoon, or rather, ignoring one, is a far better alternative than living in a nation with no future. You can't always have it all, and most of the time, the world is not fair, but, you have to choose your battles wisely.

Why do Muslim's believe the entire planet is their oyster and that every nation they emigrate to should accommodate them and their beliefs? Isn't that a little arrogant? It was a mistake for me to use the House analogy because I think it is too simplistic. Immigrants are not considered native. The French perspective is that they are sharing their home and culture with you. They certainly do not consider Muslims as French.

  

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SoWhat
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183. "We're done."
In response to Reply # 176
Wed Jan-07-15 07:07 PM by SoWhat

  

          

I'm sick of hearing whitey talk about the magazine's right to publish. Fuck that magazine, that cartoon and whitey and France for its treatment of Muslims and any non-white immigrants.

fuck you.

  

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initiationofplato
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196. "We hardly even begun."
In response to Reply # 183


          

Whose whitey btw?

Also, have you ever investigated or learned about how Muslim's treat each other? The way whitey treats Muslims in France is heaven compared to where they emigrate from.

How narrow minded to ignore why Muslims are emigrating in the first place.

They are fleeing barbarism produced in their home nations. So, I suppose, fuck Muslimey for treating Muslims the way they do as well? Or should we just pick and choose what to get mad at based on our own predispositions to race and religion?

  

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astralblak
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275. "you are stupid and no one should reply to you"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

anymore

  

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initiationofplato
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279. "I'm stupid, you're stupid, we're all stupid."
In response to Reply # 275


          

Know thyself stupid.

  

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shockzilla
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342. "um, what?"
In response to Reply # 89


          

>In other nations such as Australia, the government simply
>stated that Muslims can leave if they don't like the
>Australian way of life.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Jan-08-15 11:59 AM

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390. "ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL....."
In response to Reply # 342


          

.... right?!?!

ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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80. "I'm not justifying it"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

but hey... I've never understood why cartoonists have continuously felt the NEED to make these strips ridiculing The Prophet that a certain segment of society holds sacrosanct. Especially when they have told you over and over and over again that they take this shit seriously and they will act decisively in the face of it.

It's one thing to criticize Islam, but when you are drawing pics of the Prophet Mohammed with his ass cheeks gaped, you are really provoking a certain kind of response. I'm not saying that summary execution is the rational proportionate response... but why go there at all?

And people will say "Well, we have to do these cartoons to show that we are free and we can talk about anything we want!"

That's bullshit.

Even in "freedom-loving" democracies, there are certain topics that you can't touch. We've decided that jokes about rape are intolerable, so for the most part, everybody stays away from that. In America, a certain kind of joke about race can end a career in an instant, so people manage to restrain themselves from engaging in that kind of material.

Why do you NEED to make these racist, misogynist and anti-Islam cartoons? You're free to do it, of course... but WHY? What point is really being made beyond just flaunting how irreverent and disrespectful you are?

_____________________

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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79. "Dawg, you just typed "But Those Cartoons Were Insensitive"."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

Just dwell on Cartoons and Jihadist murders being in the same conversation.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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81. "Yes, I did."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

Again... not saying it's right. But those cartoons in themselves constitute a certain kind of psychic and social violence upon the Muslim population of France, not just the extremists.

I don't understand why they needed to publish that shit, besides being assholes.

_____________________

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 04:37 PM

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92. "You just hit the nail on the head."
In response to Reply # 81


          


>I don't understand why they needed to publish that shit,
>besides being assholes.

The French are assholes and always have been. Nothing is off limits, not even their own. You don't have to look far into history to learn what the French are capable of doing to their own people. I will respond to your other message when I get home.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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93. "Who cares if YOU don't see the value of it. It's not your call. "
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

I personally see a lot of value in what it says about some aspects or elements of Islamic culture that they get driven to violence over a cartoon. There is a social value in bringing this to light. It exposes intolerances.

It exposes the exact same thing that the dung covered Virgin Mary exposed.

And I am not saying my POV trumps your POV about the social value but rather if there is a POV that believes it has social value than that trumps any POV that says it does not have social value.

At least that's how it should work in a free society IMHOP.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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95. "The KKK sees value in their propaganda too."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

Just sayin'

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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96. "Yup. And we all should defend their right to distribute it without..."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

getting murdered. so that when it's our free speech at stake we would be treated the same way.

Do I really need to do how free speech works 101?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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100. "i'm not sure you understand free speech."
In response to Reply # 96
Wed Jan-07-15 04:54 PM by SoWhat

  

          

'free speech' applies ONLY to the gov't.

it means the gov't can't suppress political speech.

it doesn't mean ppl can say what they want w/o facing consequence from private citizens.

so Chik-fil-A's president can use his money to fund anti-gay campaigns. the gov't can't punish him for it - that's free speech. but private citizens can organize boycotts of CFA restaurants b/c they don't like the president's speech in the form of spending his money on anti-gay campaigns. that's free speech too.

so this French magazine is free to publish those cartoons w/o gov't interference or punishment. but private citizens can respond w/their own speech. of course, that speech shouldn't include violence.

today's violence is inexcusable. understandable, but inexcusable.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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117. "Free Speech also means the government can not permit a consequence"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

of your free speech to be violence or other criminal activity.

It kind of explains why our government is getting involved with the Sony hacks.


But that's neither here nor there. The conversation drifted to why I would support the klan being allowed to disseminate it's propaganda and my reasoning is based on principles of a free pluralistic society which includes free speech.

You just gave the rote response to people using the term "free speech" wrong when it really wasn't applicable.




>'free speech' applies ONLY to the gov't.
>
>it means the gov't can't suppress political speech.
>
>it doesn't mean ppl can say what they want w/o facing
>consequence from private citizens.
>
>so Chik-fil-A's president can use his money to fund anti-gay
>campaigns. the gov't can't punish him for it - that's free
>speech. but private citizens can organize boycotts of CFA
>restaurants b/c they don't like the president's speech in the
>form of spending his money on anti-gay campaigns. that's free
>speech too.
>
>so this French magazine is free to publish those cartoons w/o
>gov't interference or punishment. but private citizens can
>respond w/their own speech. of course, that speech shouldn't
>include violence.
>
>today's violence is inexcusable. understandable, but
>inexcusable.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
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121. "it doesn't mean that."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

however, yes...violence in response to non-threatening words is usually a criminal act.

>You just gave the rote response to people using the term "free
>speech" wrong when it really wasn't applicable.

you need to be right, so i'll agree.

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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101. "No I agree with you."
In response to Reply # 96
Wed Jan-07-15 04:52 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

Personally, I'm outraged the way racist expression gets silenced in society these days... How social media goes on these crusades to get people fired over some shit they said on their own time. But of course, freedom of speech does not include immunity from the consequences of your speech.

I'm cool with the KKK being able to say their shit... I respect Charlie's right to say their shit too.

But again: I don't get the point of it. Especially when they know they're dealing with a cohort that is really 'bout that life. If they willfully elected to take on that challenge, then I guess my hat's off to them.

To me it's like... I don't think the cops have the right to execute me randomly on the street. But personally, I'm not gonna go out of my way to provoke the cops either because I know how they do.

Someone else wants to be that martyr to prove a point... I commend you. Wouldn't be me, though.

Call me a coward if you wish, but when I choose to put my life on the line it will hopefully be for something more significant (to me, at least. I guess they felt drawing pics of Mohammed being sodomized was worthwhile. I think it's dumb and needlessly disrespectful and aggressive toward the Muslim community)

_____________________

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:17 PM

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150. "Even though they have murdered many people?"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

And are still allowed to exist even though they are a terrorist organization themselves? This is why y'all need to find a better analog for this topic.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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84. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

next week.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/06/business/media/the-wizard-of-watts-mirrors-debate-over-police-brutality.html?_r=0


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

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SoWhat
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87. "what?"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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94. "RE: what?"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

When the right attack Wizards of Watts and it's criticism of Police Brutality and it's depiction of cops as Pigs, a lot of these same folks here will be defending the CARTOON as important free speech.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Jan-07-15 04:56 PM

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106. "plz read. no one is condoning murder. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Reading comprehension is lost. Read what I'm saying not what you think I'm saying.

Murder is wrong. Killing is wrong. Violence is not a solution to the balkinazation happening in western society. I disagree with those who would kill innocent people, whether the murderers are police killing civilians in america, civilians killing police in american, western armies killing Muslim civilians or Muslim soldiers killing western civilians etc

But.

One must realize the serious, dead serious nature of shit. And if you are going to attack in print a deified figure for people with a known capacity for violence...a known desire go kill and if nesscessary die for what they want they fine...do it. But when violence erupts? Don't look around and wail and gnash your teeth. You wanted this here it is...now its your move.

Malcolm x knew he would be killed his close friends believe he welcomed his death. MLK knew it. When you are in conflict with other peoples core beliefs...people with guns. People with a history of killing...then you are saying I'm willing to die for the right to say fuck you.

In which case god bless, you have giant nuts...and here is your martyrdom. You earned it.

  

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SoWhat
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108. "agreed."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

fuck you.

  

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BigReg
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111. "That's the problem tho"
In response to Reply # 106
Wed Jan-07-15 05:14 PM by BigReg

  

          

>You wanted this here it is...now its your
>move.

The average muslim doesn't care about crazy ray ray and dem with the AK's or political cartoons. However, the potential fallout for this will most certainly lead to societal payback more then a 12 deaths.

The problem with this line of thinking, like Buddy said above, is that the same logic applied to other situations ends up being a game of 'blame the accusers'. Everything from tight dress=rape, the popular example above of disagreeing with a cop=resisting arrest=death, etc.

You should be able to offend and not have to deal with a massacre. The second we curtail our habits in attempt to appease a vocal lunatic minority we are fucked.

While I agree that I might be not be the one one possibly testing those crazy motherfuckers, the second we start second guessing someones right to it...we've lost.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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112. "Trolling is our habits, though?"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>You should be able to offend and not have to deal with a
>massacre. The second we curtail our habits in attempt to
>appease a vocal lunatic minority...etc

If it were something fundamental, like Muslims wanted to change the alphabet or reverse the side of the street we drive on or make every Friday a government holiday that would be one thing.

But what do you really lose by not being a troll? Is that so hard to accommodate?

That's completely different from wearing a tight dress, I think...

_____________________

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BigReg
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:42 PM

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133. "You're appealing to my troll hating sensibilities"
In response to Reply # 112
Wed Jan-07-15 05:52 PM by BigReg

  

          

>>You should be able to offend and not have to deal with a
>>massacre. The second we curtail our habits in attempt to
>>appease a vocal lunatic minority...etc
>
>If it were something fundamental, like Muslims wanted to
>change the alphabet or reverse the side of the street we drive
>on or make every Friday a government holiday that would be one
>thing.
>
>But what do you really lose by not being a troll? Is that so
>hard to accommodate?
>
>That's completely different from wearing a tight dress, I
>think...
>

But iltimately I let them rock; reason we ban tends to be because of the crowd reaction then the actual trolls themselvs (not like any of the mods are running to go pop into those posts just to be mad).

You can argue which is worse; a bunch of dudes willing to easily take a life at a sign of disrespect or a bunch of guys willing to disrespect for yuks/bias, etc...but to me it's a pretty clear black and white line. Assholes are a part of life, and would even be in a utopian society (we human!). Not necessarily murder.


On that short skirt remark:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/08/hipsters-hasidic-jews-fig_n_384579.html


Not to step into a anti-semetic/misogynistic discussion, id argue that above article shows the line is pretty grey and not necessariy black and white. It just feels that because a lunatic fringe (religious extremists) have made themselves into boogiemen we deal with them much differently then we would others who we would go tell to go fuck themselves.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:16 PM

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113. "RE: That's the problem tho"
In response to Reply # 111
Wed Jan-07-15 05:18 PM by BlassFemur

  

          

>
>You should be able to offend and not have to deal with a
>massacre.
>

That's probably true, unfortunately that's not the reality here on Earth. Again, people need to use some common sense and judge the threat based on the reality of the situation...not what everyone wishes it SHOULD be. This whole situation points to an immaturity in dealing with OTHER people.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:19 PM

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116. "you can do whatever you want, just know motherfuckers will kill you"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

They will blow themselves up to kill you.

They will blow their children up...to kill you.

You want the freedom to fuck with those people in print, keep your explosive alarm on deck and a bulletproof vest and do your thing. The shit isn't right but its real.

I am not advocating for violence but its naive to think violence is not an option for people. They feel attacked. They will fight back. Bottom line. You getting involved in a real gun fight where motherfuckers are dying and all you got is a pencil. Well, good fucking luck


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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BigReg
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:31 PM

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122. "It's reality, but the post is full of critiques on how it's wrong"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

giving the same *shrug* there was always a chance is just problematic on a societal level.

I may go and take a shit on a neighbors lawn cause we beefing over a parking space, but shooting me in the head in front of my kids in retaliation ain't the move. Neither is a cop choking me to death cause he accidentally got shit on his shoes arresting me, lol

Alot of thing we do are silly and insensitive. it's not supposed to kill you though.

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:39 PM

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129. "if more Blk ppl employed violence when wronged"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

wonder how western culture & society would be different?

if our world wide rep was not "violent low class ignorant criminals" but "violent abt _______ cause"

im not saying the killing is right. its totally wrong. some innocent muzzi person in france is going to get their ass kicked tonight over this. right wing french are going to be hella hateful towards muslims even more so now. etc. its all bad.

but! the magazine played a role in this. period. is it their fault? no. is it their responsibility? no.

but if you shit on my grass & i kill you. im going to jail. but your dead. maybe you shouldnt have shat on my grass?

im kinda tired of having my grass shat on for real.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:39 PM

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131. "i have the right to blast music in my office if i want."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

there's no ordinance saying i can't be noisy in this office. no rule in the office saying i can't.

but i have an office mate who wouldn't appreciate my loud music - so i use earbuds.

b/c it's the right thing to do and b/c it doesn't cost me much of anything to use earbuds instead of speakers. blasting music in my speakers is not so important to me that i'm willing to make a stand on it.

i guess if the publisher of the cartoons and the French ppl generally think those juvenile, puerile cartoons are so important to their way of life that they're willing to upset a disenfranchised minority population w/them just to prove a point even though it's clearly the wrong thing to do...i wish them the best of luck w/that bullshit. and i'm glad i'm not French and i'd never want to be if that's how they live.

fuck you.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:33 PM

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124. "but...it's not this."
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>You should be able to offend and not have to deal with a
>massacre. The second we curtail our habits in attempt to
>appease a vocal lunatic minority we are fucked.

'curtail our habits' though?

i mean...maybe we'd curtail our habit just to not be assholes.

maybe we curtail our habit b/c it's the right thing to do. b/c it's the kind thing to do. b/c it's the considerate thing to do.

maybe knowing we have the right to do __ and the ability to do __ but choosing not to do __ b/c it's considerate and right and fair and all that makes us better than we'd be if we did __ just b/c we can though it's assholish and inconsiderate and thoughtless and mean-spirited and unnecessary.

fuck you.

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:44 PM

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134. "i equate this to white ppl demanding the right to say nigger."
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

lets say theres a magazine that makes its money by trumpeting caricatures of Blacks all over. just niggers & watermelons & coons buck jumping etc.

& its HELLA popular. people in the country LOVE it.

am *I* going to blow their offices up? no.
am *I* going to kill their writers? no.

but 20 yr old me damn sure would have thrown rocks thru windows

if someone DID fire bomb them...i wouldnt be sad.

if someone HAD killed all their staff...i wouldnt think oh god no freedom of speech

leave me the fuck alone. im not bothering you, all you got to do is NOT say nigga & you just cant stand the thought your freedom your PRECIOUS hypocritical freedom is impugned or stepped on in any way so much that you simply MUST have the right to say nigga

well theres some niggas that will wanna kill you for that. & im not mad @ em.

#sorrynotsorry

stop fucking w/ people who dont fuck w/ you


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:50 PM

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140. "well, i dunno about all of that."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

b/c i can't justify the violence there.

the magazine was wrong to publish the cartoons though it had the right to do so.

the violence against the magazine is abhorrent and inexcusable though understandable and somewhat predictable and entirely unforturnate and unacceptable.

fuck you.

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:52 PM

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143. "again, im not justifying it. its wrong. its all bad."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

i wouldnt do it. white folks can & have called me a nigger to my face, they still breathing

BUT!

not EVERY nigga is as peaceful as me...& if you run into the wrong nigga you will get the shit kicked out of you & no im not sorry it happened

thats what im saying


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:08 PM

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147. "I'm sorry today's violence happened."
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

As wrong as they were the ppl at the magazine didn't deserve to be killed for their reprehensible conduct.

fuck you.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:17 PM

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151. "thats an AWFULLY liberal definition of reprehensible"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:20 PM

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154. "i am an awful liberal."
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

*shrugs*

fuck you.

  

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BigReg
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:50 PM

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139. "Assholes are a part of the circle of life tho!"
In response to Reply # 124
Wed Jan-07-15 05:51 PM by BigReg

  

          

>>You should be able to offend and not have to deal with a
>>massacre. The second we curtail our habits in attempt to
>>appease a vocal lunatic minority we are fucked.
>
>'curtail our habits' though?
>
>i mean...maybe we'd curtail our habit just to not be
>assholes.
>
>maybe we curtail our habit b/c it's the right thing to do.
>b/c it's the kind thing to do. b/c it's the considerate thing
>to do.
>
>maybe knowing we have the right to do __ and the ability to do
>__ but choosing not to do __ b/c it's considerate and right
>and fair and all that makes us better than we'd be if we did
>__ just b/c we can though it's assholish and inconsiderate and
>thoughtless and mean-spirited and unnecessary.
>

*Queues Lion King Broadway Soundtrack*

You're going to find plenty of societies, even today, with a shockingly low murder rate. you aren't going to find many with a shocking low asshole rate.

While I understand everyones points, there's a tinge of 'Too early?' to bring up the fact that they might have caused their own death, particularly since while on one hand you can argue that it was an egregiously offensive statement of the highest kind and also put up a good argument its just a silly cartoon.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:52 PM

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142. "oh, for sure."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

the violence is infinitely disgusting and cannot be tolerated.

but all this talk of the magazine having the right to publish the cartoons and all that jazz is just sick to me. i mean, so what they had the right? it wasn't right.

fuck you.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:01 PM

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177. "Especially the French, lol."
In response to Reply # 139


          

  

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Inkosi
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:25 PM

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118. "Base........"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

---------------------------------
Do it girl

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:45 PM

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135. "Slain Charlie Hebdo editor would rather die standing up. . ."
In response to Reply # 106


          

http://www.mediaite.com/online/murdered-charlie-hebdo-editor-i-prefer-to-die-standing-up-than-live-on-my-knees/


Murdered Charlie Hebdo Editor: ‘I Prefer to Die Standing Up than Live on My Knees’
by Tina Nguyen | 11:00 am, January 7th, 2015 802

This morning, twelve staffers of the French satirical magazine Charlie Hedbo were executed by alleged Islamist extremists in retaliation for their mocking of Islam — a longstanding practice of the magazine, given these defiant interviews with Charlie Hebdo editor Stéphane Charbonnier, who was murdered in this morning’s attacks.

“We didn’t feel like we could kill somebody with a pen,” he told Le Monde two years ago in a statement (loosely translated), explaining why he continued to publish outrageously controversial comics. “This may sound pompous, but I prefer to die standing up than live on my knees.”

“We publish caricatures every week, but people only describe them as declarations of war when it’s about the person of the Prophet or radical Islam,” Charbonnier, who commonly goes as “Charb,” told Der Spiegel in a longer interview shortly after their offices were destroyed in a fire in retaliation for a cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad:

“Extremists don’t need any excuses,” he added. “We are only criticizing one particular form of extremist Islam, albeit in a peculiar and satirically exaggerated form. We are not responsible for the excesses that happen elsewhere, just because we practice our right to freedom of expression within the legal limits…

“If we worried about the consequences of each of our drawings in each of our 1,057 issues, then we would have had to close shop a long time ago.” Nevertheless, he is grateful for the protection of the police, who he says “politely and with concern” inquired about the contents of the new issue already while it was being printed. “It’s crazy,” says the cartoonist with a smile. “Of all publications, our magazine, which mocks the police at every opportunity, is now protected by it. Which only goes to show that freedom of speech is protected in our country.”

There will continue to be no taboos at Charlie Hebdo in the future. “It should be as normal to criticize Islam as it is to criticize Jews or Catholics,” Charbonnier says. Is he afraid of attacks or violence directed against him and his colleagues? “I have neither a wife nor children, not even a dog. But I’m not going to hide.”

Charbonnier’s comics landed him on an al Qaeda Most Wanted list years ago, along with Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:48 PM

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137. "he went out w/ his boots on doing what he loved."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

#salute

i am WAAAY more flagrant w/ the reparations shit here where theres @ least a semblance of anonymity & not on FB for example mainly because theres some white people out there who will fuck your credit up, get you fired, or worse because of that

this is real shit here.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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bonitaapplebaum71481
Member since Aug 04th 2003
22576 posts
Thu Jan-08-15 07:25 AM

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346. "you're completely right....."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

you'll still have folks scream that it's not fair.

But there's a reason why in the Wild West it was also one of the more "polite" times in our society; if you offended a motherfucker, you would most assuredly catch a cap in that ass because everyone* carried...



"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on fire" -Bin

www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
http://bedstuybetty.tumblr.com/
DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28288 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 05:04 PM

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110. "This is sad for everyone."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What's with this culture of trolling? It's socially acceptable to say anything nowadays and violate.

The individuals that committed this heinous act deserve the maximum punishment.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32469 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 05:36 PM

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125. "im stunned at the direction these replies have gone"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:16 PM

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149. "i'm appalled but not stunned"
In response to Reply # 125


          

okp seems to have a low opinion on the free exchange of ideas, which is odd considering that's what we do here.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:22 PM

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156. " i guess thats more accurate."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:58 PM

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175. "You can't understand how Blacks in USA relate to French Muslims."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

They're oppressed - we're oppressed. You ain't. So you don't go where some of us took this. It makes sense to me.

fuck you.

  

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Hitokiri
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141. "I've been having trouble coming to an opinon on this..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-07-15 05:56 PM by Hitokiri

  

          

I think I have it worked out, but I may still need some help.

Charlie Hebdo was wrong. The killers were wrong.

I am not a muslim, I am not a christian. But in situations like these (before the killing) I side with the muslims because they're the disenfranchised. I do not agree with those in power making fun of those without. You've already got your foot on their throat economically, politically, socially... We need no more of your "jokes."

At the same time, I don't think that the folks at Charlie Hebdo should be have been murdered.

I think I was having trouble at first because I hadn't inserted the power dynamics. Context is important.

So while my general viewpoint gives not a shit about Islam or Muhammad or anything. Muslims in the west are oppressed and by virtue of that, should not be antagonized of by their oppressors. Regardless of the fact that I disagree with (their) religion.

By the same token, I would have no problem with muslims (for example) making similar comics about Jesus... because of their social position. Power matters.

I looked at an article showing 21 "inspiring" pictures about the public response to this... Je Suis Charlie shit... and all I see is white faces. Not a single brown face. Which is interesting to me, because it seems to point to them saying "We want the freedom to be racist/xenophobic" which is what lead me to my thoughts about how power plays into this. If the response (murder) wasn't so extreme... would they still feel like they are Charlie? I would hope not... power dynamics...

Does my line of thinking make sense?

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 05:59 PM

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145. "the respect religious belief commands is just mind-boggling to me"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

Religions arent races, they are lifestyles with a tendency to distort people's sense of right and wrong

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:18 PM

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152. "Yes and no."
In response to Reply # 145
Wed Jan-07-15 06:30 PM by Hitokiri

  

          

How many people who weren't muslims do you think suffered in the post-911 world? Sihks, Hindus, Atheists, Even Christians... who "look" muslim were undoubtedly harassed and persecuted.

Muslims are a racialized religious group. As is every other "non-white" religion.

So in a vaccuum I would agree with you -- fuck, I'm an atheist. But context is essential. I above other things, side with the oppressed.

But my issue here isn't about religion. And that's where I was having a lot of cognitive dissonance. My issue is about POWER. The Muslims in this case are the disenfranchised.

And again... that doesn't mean I side with the killers though. I don't agree with their actions at all. But what I do have empathy for/with is Muslims and other disenfranchised people in France (and all over the world) -- and it's them who will be caught in the middle of this. Between the killers and (white) France stand innocent Muslims who will be the ones who pay the price for this.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:30 PM

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157. "that status is entirely dependent on geography"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

Members of your "disenfranchised" religion has been killing "empowered" Christians in Iraq without any fear of reprisal.

So the idea of religious extremists as victims doesn't hold much water with me.

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:33 PM

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159. "Context is important. That's what I said."
In response to Reply # 157
Wed Jan-07-15 06:41 PM by Hitokiri

  

          

And we're talking about a context in France which is very different than the context in Iraq.

You can't pretend that things exist in a vacuum.

I disagree with Muslims in Iraq oppressing Christians. The power dynamics there are different, and as I said, I stand with the oppressed.

And it's not that the religious extremists are victims. Muslims in general in France (and The West) are. The extremists have a decidedly terrible way of dealing with things though, for which many many innocent muslims will be paying the price.

Please forgive all the edits. Like I said... I'm trying to work through this.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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cgonz00cc
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Wed Jan-07-15 06:42 PM

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166. "im not talking about a vacuum"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

Im talking about the one thread that connects the two situations, and thats religious extremism. I dont think it deserves anything but scorn and isolation from the civilized world, regardless of context. Because in reality, each context is pretty much the same:

1) followers of a certain creation myth are in power

2) followers of different creation myths are not in power and are subject to the whims of those who are

3) Delusionally righteous violence ensues as people equip themselves with rage and millenial thinking

Thats it. No different context can change that. That is the nature of human religion, and has been for 5000 years.

So again, i will never understand the respect afforded to it.

  

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Hitokiri
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191. "I do not side with a religion. I side with the oppressed."
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

The oppressed in France. The oppressed in Iraq. Wherever.
I don't know how to be any clearer than that.

I do not agree with the murder of the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists. I am not excusing that. I disagree with it. I condemn those actions. But the crux of what I'm saying is not about the killers. It's about the context in which this happens.

That context is one in which the Muslim community is an oppressed and disenfranchised group. Those oppressing them insist on further antagonizing them. I think that is wrong. The cartoons, to me, are not wrong because of their content (I give no fucks about Muhammad. I give no fucks about the leader of ISIL), but wrong because of who they target. The cartoons represent the racist and xenophobic attitude of the oppressors. Fuck that. They are not "innocents." By that I mean, they were not "just people, doing their jobs, hurting no one."

But they are people, and I don't think they should be murdered. That was not just. It would have been just for them to lose their jobs (for example), but their deaths were not just.

So I do not stand with those saying "Je Suis Charlie" because as I explained, Charlie Hebdo represents racism and xenophobia under the guise of free speech.

I do not stand with the killers.

But I do stand with the oppressed.

I do understand your point about religious extremism and agree to an extent. But religious extremism isn't the only thing that causes the situations you describe. Race. Class. Gender. Tribalism. Homophobia. Xenophobia... they all (can) result in that. Which is again why I side with the oppressed.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:31 PM

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194. "if you're oppressed by a cartoonist fuck your whole life"
In response to Reply # 191


          

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:33 PM

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197. "wait. maybe you don't know how much the brown ppl in Europe"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

are under the foot of whitey over there.

do you not know?

are you so unaware that you really think the cartoons are the only oppression they're dealing with?

or are you just being flippant b/c you're frustrated by today's events and this conversation?

b/c i've been flippant and dismissive and on that fuck whitey shit b/c i'm frustrated by this conversation.

fuck you.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:40 PM

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203. "RE: wait. maybe you don't know how much the brown ppl in Europe"
In response to Reply # 197


          

>are under the foot of whitey over there.
>
>do you not know?

Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but France doesn't seem like a great place to be a Muslim.

>are you so unaware that you really think the cartoons are the
>only oppression they're dealing with?

Which other oppression did murdering cartoonists solve?

>or are you just being flippant b/c you're frustrated by
>today's events and this conversation?

I'm being flippant because I don't give a shit about the oppression of anyone who would murder a journalist or cartoonist. And if anyone interprets a cartoon as oppression I don't give a shit about them either.

>b/c i've been flippant and dismissive and on that fuck whitey
>shit b/c i'm frustrated by this conversation.

i can tell.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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SoWhat
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209. "awesome;"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:45 PM

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210. "This is white supremist, hetero-patriarchal thinking."
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

You do not understand the experience of oppressed people. You do not understand the experiences of people of color, of women, of glbtq folks.

The cartoons do not exist in a vacuum.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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SoWhat
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212. "unchecked whiteness."
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

i get it.

fuck you.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 08:12 PM

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225. "RE: This is the crutch of the victim mentality"
In response to Reply # 210


          

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Jan-07-15 08:15 PM

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228. ". . ."
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNiAOSKFNR4

fuck you.

  

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Hitokiri
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239. "I'll take "things white supremacists say..." for 5000, Alex."
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

http://www.timwise.org/2010/02/racism-and-the-myth-of-a-victim-mentality/

Not that you'll read this, but know that what you're saying is classic white supremacy.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-07-15 08:37 PM

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246. "and you can think i'm a filthy racist"
In response to Reply # 239


          

and i can think you have no integrity and are making bullshit excuses for murdering someone over a cartoon.

and neither of us wants to drive to each other's workplace and murder the other over it.

wow! free speech is great!

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Jan-07-15 08:53 PM

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254. "No one is excusing the murder though."
In response to Reply # 246


  

          

I have condemned it at every chance.

You however are not an ally of people of color, or women, or glbtq folks, or oppressed people in general. You have shown such by using language like "victim mentality." Common from people like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reily. I know you don't wanna think you're one of them. But you are.

Good day.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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              &n