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Subject: "Jay Speaks #Serial" Previous topic | Next topic
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15304 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 05:15 PM

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"Jay Speaks #Serial"


          

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

On Jan. 13, 1999, Hae Min Lee, an 18-year-old high school student from Baltimore, went missing. About a month later, police uncovered her body in a nearby park; an autopsy would later find that she was choked to death. Lee’s ex-boyfriend, Adnan Syed, 17, became the primary suspect in her homicide after an anonymous caller told the police to investigate him. In December of 2000, Syed went to trial and was found guilty of murdering Lee. Syed is currently serving a life sentence.

The star witness at Syed’s trial was Jay Wilds, a former classmate who testified that he helped Syed dispose of Lee’s body. Jay’s testimony was critical to the state’s case; indeed, without his testimony it’s virtually impossible that the state could have even brought Syed to trial.

Syed’s trial, and Jay’s testimony, became the focus of a “This American Life” spinoff series, the 12-part podcast “Serial,” broadcast in the fall of this year.

Jay chose not to be formally interviewed by either “This American Life” or by “Serial” host and producer, Sarah Koenig. In the podcast Koenig pointedly challenged Jay’s account of events and his motivation for assisting Adnan. Jay feels strongly that he was unfairly depicted by Koenig and that she painted a highly misleading portrayal of him and his role in the case.

This interview is the first time Jay has spoken publicly about events surrounding Lee’s death and the trial that ended in Syed’s conviction. We met over the weekend at his two-story suburban home. Jay’s wife and mother entertained the couple’s young children while Jay and I spoke in the family living room.

This is the first part in a multipart interview. The following has been edited and condensed for clarity.



How old were you when you first met Adnan Syed?

It was just at the end of my junior year, so about 16. I knew him because I knew Muslims in the community from playing basketball at the mosque.

In “Serial” you are depicted as a petty weed dealer. Is that why you didn’t initially cooperate with the police? It doesn’t seem like enough of a reason to not talk to the police.

It wasn’t just like I was selling a nickel bag here and there. At the time, this was Maryland in the ’90s, the drug laws were extremely serious. I saw the ATF and DEA take down guys in my neighborhood for selling much less than I was at the time. And they were getting sentenced to three and five years. I also ran the operation out of my grandmother’s house and that also put my family at risk. I had a lot more on the line than just a few bags of weed.

The other thing to understand is something about the culture of Baltimore—this is where the ‘Stop Snitching’ video comes from. This is where it was produced. It went national, but it was produced in Baltimore. This is where people would have their house firebombed and still tell the police they knew nothing about it rather than to try to make some sense of what’s going on. And that’s not necessarily me—but that is my family, that is my uncles and cousins. It’s where I’m from.

What was your life like during 1998 and 1999?

I worked a lot. I rode BMX freestyle. Got called an Oreo. I had friends but the groups were small. Never really a big group of friends. I played lacrosse, was a bit of a jock. The group of people I hung out with were different from the group of people I was from. I went to concerts, like anything from Wu-Tang to Warped Tour. I was a bit of an outdoorsman, adventure seeker, fishing, camping, learned to ride a motorcycle. Went canoeing. By the time I graduated high school in 1998, I wasn’t exactly angry, but I did resent the school.

Why?

When Woodlawn put in the magnet thing, they took out all the vocational classes. Before you would just go down there for drafting, shop, and everyone would co-mingle, and all the students interacted. But when they put the magnet wing in, it was kinda like ‘these people were different from us.’ And they didn’t have to interact with us anymore. They didn’t have to go by us, except to come to lunch, and that was it. But their gym, lockers, parking, was down in the magnet wing. And I found that to be a bit of a slap in the face. Because I knew football had paid for all of that, but there were few football players down there. Football paid for everything at the school.

I didn’t resent the students, I resented the school for setting it up like that.

When was the first time you hung out with Adnan?

I met him while I was still at Woodlawn, so around 1998. Stephanie came to me and said ‘Adnan is pretty cool,’ plus he wanted to buy some weed. I said, ‘Isn’t he a paramedic?’ And she said, ‘Nah, he’s cool, plus he wants to buy.’

I didn’t trust him at first, since he wasn’t like the people I knew — pot smokers you know? I made him smoke one time, he got a little high, got a little weird. Didn’t say that much. He just seemed like someone who didn’t smoke weed too much. He had a professional job in high school, he was a paramedic or something

From your perspective, what was Adnan’s reputation at Woodlawn?

He was a little pompous, a little arrogant, but he seemed really driven as far as his academics, but all those magnet students were. He was magnet. He seemed a little bit more uptight than the other Muslim kids that I knew. He seemed under a lot of pressure to please. I got the feeling the few times of interacting with Adnan that there was this enormous pressure from somewhere trying to make him into something he didn’t want to be.

When did you two get closer to each other?

There was never a real friendship. I only smoked with him two or three times. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh, we’re down in the park, come on down.’ We were friendly, we were cool. I might have sat next to him in a class, and joked or something. But he didn’t call me unless he needed something. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh, we’re going bowling, and let’s call it in before we go bowling and call the rest of our friends and call Jay.’ I don’t remember ever going to any kinds of functions or endeavors together, or any concerts or clubs together, you know.

What did you know about Adnan and his relationship with Hae Min Lee?

I think that was his first real girlfriend, and I think that’s why his reaction was so strong. I don’t think it meant that much to her. I don’t think that’s wrong, it’s high school, you know. She’s a high school girl, ‘Oh, he’s cute, Oh, whatever’—things fizzle out. I think there was another dude or something, or whatever. I really didn’t know much about their relationship, if they hung out, where they hung out, when they hung out.

How do you remember Hae?

For our age group, she was really independent. I believe she had a job also. But she seemed to be more mature, like she was two, three, four years older than us. Like she was a junior in college. The way she moved and went about her day. She just seemed like an older chick who happened to be in high school. She also wasn’t on the magnet side of the demographic.

When did he first talk to you about hurting her?

It was at least a week before she died, when he found out she was either cheating on him or leaving him. We were in the car, we were riding, smoking. He just started opening up. It’s in the evening after school, we never hung out in the morning. Just normal conversation like, ‘I think she’s fucking around. I’m gonna kill that bitch, man.’ Nothing real pointed or anything, not like, ‘I know his name,’ or ‘I caught her.’ But I just thought he was just shooting off like everyone else shoots off when they’re mad at their girlfriend. He never said anything like, ‘Hey, what gauge gun should I use?’ or ‘How many minutes am I supposed to hold somebody under the water for?’ or, ‘Is there a statute of limitation on murder?’ I thought he was just blowing off steam and bullshitting. I thought at worst he’d throw a rock through her window or something. Normal high school ‘I’m mad at her and I’ll scratch her car’ sort of stuff.

I had never known anybody who had killed anybody else, so there’s no way I could have known.

But look, if we start speculating what he was thinking that far ahead – I don’t know. He might really have just been bullshitting at the time. I don’t know what happened, what occurred between them that day. I don’t know if she said something he couldn’t handle, and he went off the edge or if he had been seriously speculating about it. I don’t feel comfortable drawing conclusions like that. You can’t start drawing conclusions like that.

A big part of the ‘Serial’ podcast is to speculate on Adnan’s motive. What do you think?

I don’t necessarily know if he meant to kill Hae before he did it or if it was a sudden moment thing, but looking at his life, from what I saw, he seemed to be far out of his realm when it came to Hae leaving him.

From the way he carried himself, at least, it looked like he had never lost anything before. And it was really hard for him to deal with being on the losing end. In that situation, he was the loser. And people were starting to find out he was a loser, ‘Oh, you and Hae aren’t together anymore. She got a new boyfriend?’ And he didn’t know how to deal with that.

And the other thing about it, I mean, there looked like there was real hurt and pain. What else could motivate you to choke the life out of someone you cared about? He just couldn’t come to grips with those feelings. However he ended up doing it—whether it was premeditated, an involuntary reaction at that point in time—he just couldn’t come to grips with being a loser and failing. He failed; he lost the girl.

I know that he came from a very strict religious background and that he was uneasy with some of the things he was doing. He was having a hard enough time with that itself. There were some big forces going on that didn’t have anything to do with Hae.

But, like I said, I don’t know how to come up with this story about how Adnan did it, why he did it, what he was thinking, how he was thinking, and why he was thinking that. I’m not a lawyer and I’m not a cop. It’s not my job to figure that out.

When Adnan loaned you his car on Jan. 13, 1999, did he tell you it was because he planned on murdering Hae?

No. I didn’t know that he planned to murder her that day. I didn’t think he was going to go kill her. We were in the car together during last period—he was ditching the last period. And I said, ‘Hey, I need to run to the mall ’cause I need to get a gift for Stephanie.’

He said then, ‘No, I gotta go do something. I’m going to be late for practice, so just drop me off. Take my car, take my cellphone. I’ll call you from someone else’s phone when I’m done.’

I said, ‘Alright, cool.’ I dropped him off at school, went to the mall, then when I was done, I go back to my friend Jenn’s house, where I normally go, sit and smoke with my friend.

Then he calls me and says, ‘Come pick me up.’

So I go to pick him up, and when I get there he says, ‘Oh shit, I did it.’ I say, ‘Did what?’ He says, ‘I killed Hae.’

At the Best Buy?

Yes.

Is this when you first saw Hae’s body in the trunk of her car?

No. I saw her body later, in front of of my grandmother’s house where I was living. I didn’t tell the cops it was in front of my house because I didn’t want to involve my grandmother. I believe I told them it was in front of ‘Cathy’s house, but it was in front of my grandmother’s house. I know it didn’t happen anywhere other than my grandmother’s house. I remember the highway traffic to my right, and I remember standing there on the curb. I remember Adnan standing next to me.

Let’s back up, tell me what happened when you arrived at the Best Buy to pick up Adnan.

I pick him up — he doesn’t have any car with him. Like, he’s not in a car or anything.

Where was Hae’s car? Was it in the Best Buy parking lot?

Hae’s car could have been in the parking lot, but I didn’t know what it looked like so I don’t remember. When I pick him up at Best Buy, he’s telling me her car is somewhere there, and that he did this in the parking lot. But that, according to what I learned later, is probably not what happened.

Wherever her car was at the time I picked him up from Best Buy, it probably stayed there until he picked me up later that evening.

Then what happens, and what time is it roughly?

It’s starting to get dark, so between 3p.m. and 4p.m. We drive over to Cathy’s house to smoke. Cathy has people over when we get there. Now I don’t wanna tell the people at Cathy’s that this guy I’m with just killed his girlfriend and the cops just called because then they would all be a part of this fucked up thing.

Who was at the Cathy’s apartment?

Cathy, Jeff, Laura and Jenn.

Ok, so you arrive at Cathy’s with Adnan after he tells you he murdered Hae?

Yeah. We’re sitting there smoking and he receives a phone call from the police and gets all panicky. I say, ‘Well we need to part ways.’ I don’t remember if he dropped me off at my house or if I got a ride from somebody else.

What time do you get back to your place?

I think — and, look, it’s been 15 years — about 6 p.m.

Ok. So then you and Adnan parted ways?

Yes. He left in his car and I was trying to collect myself at my house. I was pretty distraught, fucked up, feeling guilty for not saying nothing. I don’t know whether he calls me when he’s on his way back to my house, or if he calls me right outside the house. He calls me and says ‘I’m outside,’ so I come outside to talk to him and followed him to a different car, not his. He said, ‘You’ve gotta help me, or I’m gonna tell the cops about you and the weed and all that shit.’ And then he popped the trunk and I saw Hae’s body. She looked kinda purple, blue, her legs were tucked behind her, she had stockings on, none of her clothes were removed, nothing like that. She didn’t look beat up.

Hae was in the trunk of her own car?

Yes.

Ok. Then what happened?

Adnan says, ‘Just help me dig the hole.’ And I’m still thinking, ‘Inner-city black guy, selling pot to high school kids.’ The cops are going to fry me. They’re gonna pin me to the fucking wall. I had cops show up and harass me before at my house. I told that I wouldn’t touch her car, or any of her possessions, and I say, ‘Fuck it. I’ll help you dig the hole.’

Why did you agree to help Adnan bury Hae?

Because at the time I was convinced that I would be going to jail for a long time if he turned me in for drug dealing, especially to high school kids. I was also running operations from my grandmother’s house. So that would ruin her life too. I was also around a bunch of people earlier the day , and I didn’t want them to get fucked up with homicide. So I said, ‘Look man, I’m not touching . You’re in this on your own. I’m being manipulated into what’s being done right now.’

Did you go to Leakin Park immediately after agreeing to help?

No. Adnan left and then returned to my house several hours later, closer to midnight in his own car. He came back with no tools or anything. He asked me if I had shovels, so I went inside my house and got some gardening tools. We got in his car and start driving. I asked him where we’re going and he says, ‘Didn’t you say everyone gets dumped in Leakin Park?’

I said, ‘Drug dealers, people who get killed by drug dealers,’ and I’m thinking to myself, ‘When did I ever say that?’ So, as I’m riding with him to the park and it starts raining and I’m thinking to myself as he pulls over—and I’m thinking this is the spot he’s chosen. I’m also thinking, ‘What’s making him think I’m totally okay with this?’ Like if a car goes by, and I jump out and wave at them saying, ‘Hey, this is a murderer right here.’ But I didn’t. I’m pretty sure it was my fear of going to prison for having a bunch of weed in my grandma’s house. He knew I was afraid of that.

Did you and Adnan dig the grave?

Yes we dig for about 40 minutes and we dig and dig, and he’s digging less and less. And at a certain point I say, ‘Well fuck, I’m finished. I’m fucking done.’ And Adnan’s like, ‘Oh, well, you’re not going to help me move her are you?’ And I’m like ‘No, I’m not gonna help you move her.’ He says, ‘Ok, well, I’m gonna need you to drive back to her car.”

Where was Hae’s car?

Somewhere up around a corner up a hill, parked in a strange neighborhood. It’s just on the street. I didn’t know it was that close. He said, ‘I’m gonna drive back down there . You follow me some of the way, and then I’ll take care of it.’

You drove him to Hae’s car nearby?

Yes. We get into his car, and he drives up around the corner to Hae’s car. He says, ‘OK, follow me halfway back down the hill ,” so he doesn’t have to walk all the way back up the hill to get back to me in his car. I follow him halfway back down the hill, park, smoke some cigarettes. He’s gone with Hae’s car.

It takes him about half an hour, 45 minutes, and he comes back with gloves on, panting, like, ‘She was really heavy.’ That’s all he says. That’s about burying her.

Adnan had just buried Hae on his own?

Yes. When we were digging the hole, it’s not like Hae’s body was just lying next to us. She was still in the trunk.

OK. Then what?

And he’s like, ‘I’ve gotta put her car somewhere.’ So I follow him around for a few minutes, and he just picks a place at random behind some row houses, leaves her car, gets into his car, takes me home.

Why is this story different from what you originally told the police? Why has your story changed over time?

Well first of all, I wasn’t openly willing to cooperate with the police. It wasn’t until they made it clear they weren’t interested in my ‘procurement’ of pot that I began to open up any. And then I would only give them information pertaining to my interaction with someone or where I was. They had to chase me around before they could corner me to talk to me, and there came a point where I was just sick of talking to them. And they wouldn’t stop interviewing me or questioning me. I wasn’t fully cooperating, so if they said, ‘Well, we have on phone records that you talked to Jenn.’ I’d say, ‘Nope, I didn’t talk to Jenn.’ Until Jenn told me that she talked with the cops and that it was ok if I did too.

I stonewalled them that way. No — until they told me they weren’t trying to prosecute me for selling weed, or trying to get any of my friends in trouble. People had lives and were trying to get into college and stuff like that. Getting them in trouble for anything that they knew or that I had told them — I couldn’t have that.

I guess I was being kind of a jury on whether or not people needed to be involved or whatever, but these people didn’t have anything to do with it, and I knew they didn’t have anything to do with it.

That’s the best way I can account for the inconsistencies. Once the police made it clear that my drug dealing wasn’t gonna affect the outcome of what was going on, I became a little bit more transparent.

Did you make the anonymous call to the police to tip them off about Adnan?

No.

Do you know who did?

I don’t know. But there was a grand jury hearing on this case, and I have an idea who might have based on that hearing.

COMING NEXT: PART 2, Jay’s theory on the anonymous caller, why he agreed to testify in the state’s case against Adnan, and how “Serial” showed up at his front door.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i hope adnan gets out & literally beats this dude into a coma
Dec 29th 2014
1
Looks nothing like I imagined him
Dec 29th 2014
2
hes playery. nm
Dec 29th 2014
3
preemptive damage control?
Dec 29th 2014
4
^something about your avy
Dec 31st 2014
66
Sounds about right.
Dec 29th 2014
5
Yep.
Dec 29th 2014
13
lol koenig's gotta be PISSED
Dec 29th 2014
Hell yea. lol
Dec 29th 2014
8
lol koenig's gotta be PISSED
Dec 29th 2014
6
This part seems very inconsistent...
Dec 29th 2014
7
YUP. That's the fishiest thing out of the whole situation
Dec 29th 2014
10
      Thats HS though
Dec 29th 2014
12
           I still don't buy it. High School cars were like gold
Dec 30th 2014
26
                Yeah, that shit doesn't align with my HS experience AT ALL
Dec 30th 2014
27
                You guys are city kids
Dec 30th 2014
32
                     i went to high school in Baltimore, around this same time...
Dec 30th 2014
40
                So were cell phones in 1999.
Dec 30th 2014
41
                     calls were like $1.25/min and there were roaming fees and shit
Dec 30th 2014
42
                          they even charged for voicemails and caller id back then.....
Dec 30th 2014
44
This story is extremely different than the one told in court
Dec 29th 2014
9
Jay did it.
Dec 29th 2014
11
He's lying.
Dec 29th 2014
14
Wait are you suggesting that high schools may have been stupid and
Dec 29th 2014
19
and lol @ them stringing his interview out
Dec 29th 2014
15
they killin you on Reddit, Jay.
Dec 29th 2014
16
Lmao @ emergency meeting at the crab crib in 5
Dec 29th 2014
17
He's still lying and you can't trust anything he says
Dec 29th 2014
18
This is true. But he tells a more plausible story.
Dec 29th 2014
20
      This isn't minor tho.
Dec 30th 2014
29
           Plus there's this....
Dec 30th 2014
45
           Being dumb high school kids
Dec 31st 2014
68
           What can I say, all good points.
Dec 30th 2014
49
           I ain't listened to nan episode of said podcast
Dec 30th 2014
57
                ^^^^^^^
Dec 31st 2014
59
the intercept indeed
Dec 30th 2014
21
I will say this:
Dec 30th 2014
22
He's got his nerve.
Dec 30th 2014
23
Jay did that shit .
Dec 30th 2014
24
The more Jay talks, the more I think Adnan is innocent
Dec 30th 2014
25
Yep.
Dec 30th 2014
28
The only thing keeping me from saying Jay did it alone is... why?
Dec 30th 2014
31
      Exactly. Lying or not, there's just no good motive for Jay to do it.
Dec 30th 2014
43
           Jay might just be one of those people who lie for no damn reason.
Dec 30th 2014
46
                i think that was established in one of the episodes,
Dec 30th 2014
50
also: keep them squares out your circle/no new friends nm
Dec 30th 2014
30
Jay's version seems much more plausible.
Dec 30th 2014
33
this version is only plausible
Dec 30th 2014
34
He's had 15 years to make it sound better. these are my issues:
Dec 30th 2014
36
Jay's version completely contradicts the cell phone record
Dec 30th 2014
37
Jay's "version"? This dood got like 27 versionS.
Dec 30th 2014
38
      I was referring to this version, but
Dec 30th 2014
39
           Ahahaha yes. So true.
Dec 30th 2014
47
Car swap makes no sense and call to grandmas isn't in the cell records
Jan 02nd 2015
83
Jay is running this big time weed operation....
Dec 30th 2014
35
Maybe Jay was Hae Min's other dude?
Dec 30th 2014
48
lol
Dec 30th 2014
51
hashtag steppin out
Dec 30th 2014
52
MailKimp
Dec 30th 2014
56
      MailPimp
Dec 31st 2014
61
I'm starting to think neither of them did it
Dec 30th 2014
53
Crazy...but not too crazy
Dec 30th 2014
54
"Do you ever read Reddit?" PART 2 is up! (swipe)
Dec 30th 2014
55
Jay should've stayed quiet - this makes him look even worse.
Dec 30th 2014
58
Jay was cheating on Stephanie with Jen and Hae confronted Jay
Dec 31st 2014
60
this was my theory the whole time
Dec 31st 2014
62
^^^this makes so much sense.
Dec 31st 2014
63
So why doesn't Hae write about it in her diary?
Dec 31st 2014
69
Fair point!
Dec 31st 2014
70
yep, I think jay did it...
Dec 31st 2014
71
Same problem with this Theory. If True, Adnan would be screaming
Dec 31st 2014
73
      then there is this
Dec 31st 2014
76
      There is only explanation I can think of.
Dec 31st 2014
79
      That has less to do with the theory and more to do with Adnan's personal...
Jan 02nd 2015
84
thats my high school
Dec 31st 2014
64
If Jay and Adnan buried her at midnight, then..
Dec 31st 2014
65
The idea that they buried the body at 7pm is a bit strange.
Dec 31st 2014
75
Season 2 has to still be about this case now
Dec 31st 2014
67
Plus you have the Innocence Project DNA results, Adnan's next appeal . ....
Dec 31st 2014
72
i aint listening to this bullshit no more though
Dec 31st 2014
74
i want season 2 to be about the disappearance of relisha rudd
Jan 01st 2015
80
nah
Jan 01st 2015
81
I flip flopped so many times during the series
Dec 31st 2014
77
part 3 up.
Dec 31st 2014
78
The whole way this podcast and it's aftermath is playing out...
Jan 01st 2015
82
Years of law and order, etc...
Jan 02nd 2015
85

Binlahab
Charter member
182563 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 05:20 PM

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1. "i hope adnan gets out & literally beats this dude into a coma"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like the options are

jays telling the complete truth, adnan is a killer. in which case hes locked up. stfu abt it.

or

jays lying somehow but adnan is still a killer in which case...stfu abt it.

or

jays lying and adnan didnt have anything to do with it....in which case...STFU abt it

damn


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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Chanson
Member since Nov 09th 2004
15000 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 05:23 PM

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2. "Looks nothing like I imagined him"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In my mind he looked like OG Maco.

mind
--------
matter

  

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Binlahab
Charter member
182563 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 05:25 PM

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3. "hes playery. nm"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
21385 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 05:30 PM

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4. "preemptive damage control?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 11:09 AM

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66. "^something about your avy"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Makes me loose all hope for black folks

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
45349 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 05:35 PM

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5. "Sounds about right. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14464 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 07:04 PM

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13. "Yep."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

.

_
http://www.yothatsmyjawn.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12290 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 05:39 PM

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"lol koenig's gotta be PISSED"


          

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14876 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 05:50 PM

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8. "Hell yea. lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
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Mon Dec-29-14 05:39 PM

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6. "lol koenig's gotta be PISSED"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon Dec-29-14 05:49 PM

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7. "This part seems very inconsistent..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

How do you go from this:

>
>
>When did you two get closer to each other?
>
>There was never a real friendship. I only smoked with him two
>or three times. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh, we’re down in the
>park, come on down.’ We were friendly, we were cool. I might
>have sat next to him in a class, and joked or something. But
>he didn’t call me unless he needed something. It wasn’t
>like, ‘Oh, we’re going bowling, and let’s call it in
>before we go bowling and call the rest of our friends and call
>Jay.’ I don’t remember ever going to any kinds of
>functions or endeavors together, or any concerts or clubs
>together, you know.
>
>


To Adnan loaning him his car to buy a gift for his girl and all that other stuff that followed?
That just doesn't fit.


_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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BigReg
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10. "YUP. That's the fishiest thing out of the whole situation"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

You want us to believe you guys are just acquaintances...but suddenly your borrowing his car and helping him bury bodies? LOL.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Mon Dec-29-14 06:36 PM

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12. "Thats HS though"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

The most illogical shit we all did was in HS. I could totally see a HS kid loaning a car to someone he doesnt know that well who he thinks is a "friend".

Thats not out of teh realm of possibility at all. Stupid? yes. But very possible for a high schooler for a number of reasons.


>You want us to believe you guys are just acquaintances...but
>suddenly your borrowing his car and helping him bury bodies?
>LOL.
>
>

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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BigReg
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26. "I still don't buy it. High School cars were like gold"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>The most illogical shit we all did was in HS. I could totally
>see a HS kid loaning a car to someone he doesnt know that well
>who he thinks is a "friend".
>

and both JayAdnan are claiming they weren't friends, that's the kicker.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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27. "Yeah, that shit doesn't align with my HS experience AT ALL"
In response to Reply # 26


          

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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32. "You guys are city kids"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

For those of us that grew up in places like Socal where cars are the norm, its a lot different.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
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Tue Dec-30-14 12:28 PM

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40. "i went to high school in Baltimore, around this same time..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

no one was letting anyone use their car if it wasn't their friend. period. people were BARELY letting their friends use their cars and cell phone. now this could be all part of Adnan's master plan...and Jay was like well shit you gonna let me hold your car then fine...who knows...but both of them saying we hardly know each other contradicts what other ppl have said about them...ppl reported them being together a lot, Jay dropping off Adnan several times, etc etc.

now it could be that Adnan let Jay use his car for free weed. I can buy that but why not just say that when you have immunity.

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
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Tue Dec-30-14 12:47 PM

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41. "So were cell phones in 1999. "
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

And this dude lends you his car AND his phone?

But y'all ain't friends?

Bullshit.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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42. "calls were like $1.25/min and there were roaming fees and shit"
In response to Reply # 41


          

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
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44. "they even charged for voicemails and caller id back then....."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

  

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Latina212
Member since Apr 28th 2003
8686 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 06:01 PM

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9. "This story is extremely different than the one told in court"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lying ass bastard
He waited until all the episodes were released
To make up this new shitty story?
I don't believe him

Could he have changed the details of the crime
To help out adnan? And because he wasn't charged back then
Would it be to late to charge jay?

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Dec-29-14 06:25 PM

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11. "Jay did it. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

All the "loser" talk in the beginning makes it so obvious.

#mailkimp

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
13957 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 07:31 PM

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14. "He's lying."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What is particularly ridiculous to me

is adnan trusting a guy who is admittedly not his friend to not dime him out for doing a murder.

and Jay being complicit in concealing the murder because he was concerned about being caught for selling weed.

while its possible (because anything is), if that is the truth, it would make both of them extremely stupid and naive individuals.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Dec-29-14 11:17 PM

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19. "Wait are you suggesting that high schools may have been stupid and"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

naive?!?!? How can that be?


>What is particularly ridiculous to me
>
>is adnan trusting a guy who is admittedly not his friend to
>not dime him out for doing a murder.
>
>and Jay being complicit in concealing the murder because he
>was concerned about being caught for selling weed.
>
>while its possible (because anything is), if that is the
>truth, it would make both of them extremely stupid and naive
>individuals.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
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Mon Dec-29-14 07:37 PM

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15. "and lol @ them stringing his interview out "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

into sections for clicks & traffic.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
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Mon Dec-29-14 07:45 PM

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16. "they killin you on Reddit, Jay."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Dec-29-14 07:45 PM by woe.is.me.

  

          

http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2qqugq/the_intercepts_exclusive_interview_with_jay_part_1/

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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Latina212
Member since Apr 28th 2003
8686 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 09:24 PM

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17. "Lmao @ emergency meeting at the crab crib in 5"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
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Mon Dec-29-14 11:13 PM

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18. "He's still lying and you can't trust anything he says"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Dec-29-14 11:20 PM

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20. "This is true. But he tells a more plausible story. "
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Never really got over the idea that he would help bury a body for a crime he wasn't involved with.

This makes more sense when he tells it in that he really didn't have alot to do with Hae's body. He saw it in a trunk at one point and he helped dig a grave.

He seems alot less involved in this telling which makes sense (though admittedly it's self serving).

I also think the threat about going to the cops about the weed operation makes a lot of sense as a motivation to help. More than anything else I've heard so far.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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BigReg
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Tue Dec-30-14 09:42 AM

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29. "This isn't minor tho."
In response to Reply # 20
Tue Dec-30-14 09:47 AM by BigReg

  

          

>This makes more sense when he tells it in that he really
>didn't have alot to do with Hae's body. He saw it in a trunk
>at one point and he helped dig a grave.

LOL

Law and Order existed back then! And while I am a firm believer in high school stupidity, SOME DUDE YOU BARELY KNOW GOT A DEAD BODY IN THR TRUNK.

A DEAD BODY.

If he's so paranoid about cops busting him for weed, what's gonna happen when the cops find out HE KNEW THERE WAS THIS DEAD ASIAN CHICK IN THE TRUNK AND HE HELPED DIG A GRAVE.

On top of that, he's helping Mr. HONOR ROLL bury her! Who's the cops gonna think did it? You've got one dead honor student, one live honor student, and the neighborhood thug! And you're worried about them making weed charges stick? NIGGA.

Second he was like, 'Yo, ill tell the cops on you' id be like, 'YO, ILL TELL THE COPS ON YOU THAT YOU MURKED YOUR GIRLFRIEND', lol. End of argument.

Like, in my mind it's not him helping hide a gun that has a body on it, or hiding cash from a big robbery...a large but reasonable ramp up in criminality from drug dealing.

Even as the neighborhood crossover thug, coming face to face with a dead body should not have been a shrugworth event.

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
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Tue Dec-30-14 01:10 PM

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45. "Plus there's this...."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

If Jay has this big-ish operation out of his grandmother's house, and Adnana threatens to dime on him....Why wouldn't he tell Adnan to fuck off, then move his stash?

That way, Adnan can holler all he wants, and then Jay has leverage to dime on Adnan about a murder. Jay is trying to play it like he got leveraged into the situation because of the weed, but Adnan MURDERED someone. He really had no leverage at all. I can't buy that.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 11:14 AM

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68. "Being dumb high school kids"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Can cover a lot of the questions.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Dec-30-14 02:16 PM

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49. "What can I say, all good points. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>>This makes more sense when he tells it in that he really
>>didn't have alot to do with Hae's body. He saw it in a
>trunk
>>at one point and he helped dig a grave.
>
>LOL
>
>Law and Order existed back then! And while I am a firm
>believer in high school stupidity, SOME DUDE YOU BARELY KNOW
>GOT A DEAD BODY IN THR TRUNK.
>
>A DEAD BODY.
>
>If he's so paranoid about cops busting him for weed, what's
>gonna happen when the cops find out HE KNEW THERE WAS THIS
>DEAD ASIAN CHICK IN THE TRUNK AND HE HELPED DIG A GRAVE.
>
>On top of that, he's helping Mr. HONOR ROLL bury her! Who's
>the cops gonna think did it? You've got one dead honor
>student, one live honor student, and the neighborhood thug!
>And you're worried about them making weed charges stick?
>NIGGA.
>
>Second he was like, 'Yo, ill tell the cops on you' id be like,
>'YO, ILL TELL THE COPS ON YOU THAT YOU MURKED YOUR
>GIRLFRIEND', lol. End of argument.
>
>Like, in my mind it's not him helping hide a gun that has a
>body on it, or hiding cash from a big robbery...a large but
>reasonable ramp up in criminality from drug dealing.
>
>Even as the neighborhood crossover thug, coming face to face
>with a dead body should not have been a shrugworth event.
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Dec-30-14 07:18 PM

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57. "I ain't listened to nan episode of said podcast"
In response to Reply # 29


          

but my rebuttal to those points is what it usually is when stories involve bizarre behavior by young people: kids are fucking dumb as shit.

I don't know what to believe

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Wed Dec-31-14 01:37 AM

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59. "^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Yup I haven't listened to one lick of the hype machine. My point wasn't a defense of jay. It was more my understanding of kids- specifically high school teenagers.


There's one story in particular I'm thinking of when I was a high school counselor that is cracking me the fuck up thinking about it.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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LES
Member since Oct 17th 2006
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Tue Dec-30-14 12:43 AM

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21. "the intercept indeed"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

__________
http://leswrite.com/

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Tue Dec-30-14 06:43 AM

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22. "I will say this:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

People keep asking why would he confess to helping with a murder if he was never really a part of it.

One answer is that he didn't get jail time for testifying, but clearly going to jail (for weed) was on his mind. It is plausible that he manufactured this story just to help the prosecutor lock up Adnan for the sake of saving his own ass for the weed selling.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 08:06 AM

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23. "He's got his nerve."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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DJ007
Member since Apr 06th 2003
5447 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 08:49 AM

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24. "Jay did that shit ."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Dec-30-14 09:07 AM

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25. "The more Jay talks, the more I think Adnan is innocent"
In response to Reply # 0


          

When the show ended, I was pretty sure they did it together, but this interview has me rethinking everything.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Dec-30-14 09:12 AM

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28. "Yep."
In response to Reply # 25


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Monkey Genius
Member since Mar 04th 2005
8060 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 09:52 AM

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31. "The only thing keeping me from saying Jay did it alone is... why?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

I can't come up with one logical motive for the guy.

Everything about him seems guilty as fuck except he had no reason to do that shit.

Adnan choking her out in frustration/jealousy/anger makes more sense.

----------------------------------
I have a webcomic: www.watchthecomic.com

My webcomic has a page: www.facebook.com/watchyourheadcomic

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
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Tue Dec-30-14 12:51 PM

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43. "Exactly. Lying or not, there's just no good motive for Jay to do it."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

The only plausible one, that he did it to keep Hae from telling his girl Stephanie that he may have been cheating, seems flimsy at best.

And there's still the fact that Adnan can't remember large parts of the evening and still hasn't gone at Jay for the murder.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

  

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Monkey Genius
Member since Mar 04th 2005
8060 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 01:17 PM

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46. "Jay might just be one of those people who lie for no damn reason."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

----------------------------------
I have a webcomic: www.watchthecomic.com

My webcomic has a page: www.facebook.com/watchyourheadcomic

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
1373 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 02:51 PM

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50. "i think that was established in one of the episodes, "
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

that Jay had a tendency to just lie and brag for no reason, which is why one of the people says they didn't believe Jay when he told him about Hae.

  

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Binlahab
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Tue Dec-30-14 09:50 AM

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30. "also: keep them squares out your circle/no new friends nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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Cam
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Tue Dec-30-14 10:07 AM

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33. "Jay's version seems much more plausible. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

None of his details seem suspicious, unlike the multiple versions and theories we heard in Serial.

Adnan is where he's supposed to be.

Poor Hae Min Lee!

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
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Tue Dec-30-14 10:55 AM

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34. "this version is only plausible"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

if you ignore the fact that it is the 6th version he has concocted.

also, he has now admitted to perjuring himself on the stand, so I'm not sure why anyone should be convinced that this particular account is any more factual than his previous fictions.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
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Tue Dec-30-14 11:42 AM

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36. "He's had 15 years to make it sound better. these are my issues: "
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

This interview actually muddles things more because he mentions stop snitching, but he told on Adnan.

He only smoke with Adnan two or three times, isn't that how many times they smoked that particular day....we know y'all were friends.

he says he doesn't know if Hae's car was in the parking lot, because he doesn't know what it looked like......but then later when the reporter says "hae's body was in her own car?" and he goes yes.so how do you know that was Hae's car if you don't know what it looks like...and if you do know NOW what it looks like, then why doesn't he say "i don't remember if the car was in the lot or not...not that, I don't know because I don't know what it looks like..."

the cell phone record says they were at Leakin Park around 6...but then he says they buried the body after midnight.

What is the truth here...we will never know.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Dec-30-14 11:46 AM

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37. "Jay's version completely contradicts the cell phone record"
In response to Reply # 33


          

and we know Adnan went to his last period class.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Dec-30-14 11:49 AM

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38. "Jay's "version"? This dood got like 27 versionS."
In response to Reply # 37


          

That's the biggest problem. One of those versions might fit in with the cell records, or at least some of it. The other 26 don't fit shit.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15304 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 12:16 PM

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39. "I was referring to this version, but"
In response to Reply # 38


          

Jay had 15 years and 12 episodes of Serial to craft a narrative that actually matched the evidence and he STILL fucked up.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Dec-30-14 01:56 PM

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47. "Ahahaha yes. So true."
In response to Reply # 39


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Fri Jan-02-15 09:43 AM

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83. "Car swap makes no sense and call to grandmas isn't in the cell records"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

It sounds plausible as a story told but it conflicts with some of the earlier facts. Hell, all Jay's versions have sounded plausible but they're all different...which makes them and him unreliable

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Tue Dec-30-14 10:58 AM

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35. "Jay is running this big time weed operation...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yet he needs to drive around the city looking for dime bags with adnan?!

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42007 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 02:05 PM

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48. "Maybe Jay was Hae Min's other dude?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't know what yall are talking about for shit and didn't do nothing but read this interview

Also, is Hae Min

pronounced 'hymen'?

#STAYWOKE

  

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Niq96st
Member since Jun 16th 2005
8396 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 03:31 PM

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51. "lol"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

HAY-min, fool! lol

_______________________________
Maintain chill at all times.

  

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illegal
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Tue Dec-30-14 05:04 PM

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52. "hashtag steppin out"
In response to Reply # 48


          

***
when I come around, they frown
then wanna dap me down
but when I leave?

  

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sosumi
Member since May 30th 2012
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Tue Dec-30-14 07:02 PM

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56. "MailKimp"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

>pronounced 'hymen'?

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Wed Dec-31-14 07:52 AM

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61. "MailPimp"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Dec-30-14 05:12 PM

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53. "I'm starting to think neither of them did it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Crazy theory: The cops found the car and body and needed to make a case. They caught Jay on some drug shit and got him to testify to their made-up story just to close the case.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14876 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 05:28 PM

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54. "Crazy...but not too crazy"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

I just watched a Frontline documentary (The Confessions) about a case where three guys confessed to taking part in a crime (rape/murder) they had absolutely no part of.
All because an overzealous detective and prosecutor.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14464 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 06:43 PM

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55. ""Do you ever read Reddit?" PART 2 is up! (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

#TeamJay

_______________________________
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/30/exclusive-jay-part-2/
Jay Speaks Part 2: ‘Hae was dead before she got to my house. Anything that makes Adnan innocent doesn’t involve me.’
By Natasha Vargas-Cooper
@natashavc
Today at 4:42 PM
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Jay Speaks Part 2: ‘Hae was dead before she got to my house. Anything that makes Adnan innocent doesn’t involve me.’
Exclusive: Jay, Key Witness from ‘Serial’ Tells His Story for First Time, Part 1
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Meet Alfreda Bikowsky, the Senior Officer at the Center of the CIA’s Torture Scandals

The hugely popular 12-part podcast “Serial” investigated the 1999 murder of teenager Hae Min Lee and the murder conviction the following year of her ex-boyfriend, Adnan Syed, who is currently serving a life sentence. The key witness in the case was Jay Wilds, a former classmate of Lee and Syed at Baltimore’s Woodlawn High School.

During the trial, Jay testified that he helped Syed dispose of Lee’s body. For his role in the crime, he was given two years probation for being an accessory to murder after the fact. Jay declined to be interviewed by “Serial” host and producer, Sarah Koenig. He spoke publicly about the case for first time in an exclusive interview with The Intercept. The first part was published yesterday. Today we’re publishing the second part of this interview.

The third and final part will be published tomorrow. The following has been edited and condensed for clarity.

——

Did you make the anonymous call to the police to tip them off about Adnan?

No.

Do you know who did?

I don’t know for sure. But there was a grand jury hearing on this case, and I have an idea who might have based on that hearing. I know that during the grand jury there was a spiritual leader of the mosque–I don’t know how to pronounce his name. Something with a B . He spoke with the police during the investigation. But when he was called to the grand jury, he pled the fifth . So that whatever he knew about Adnan, he knew that if he said it in court he could also be in trouble. I believe that Mr. B. had some information that we don’t have, possibly because he was a religious leader at the mosque, and Adnan talked to him like a priest taking a confession . I believe it’s possible that he’s the person who made the anonymous call to the police saying to check into Adnan.

Why do you think that he did that?

Maybe Adnan lost his shit and confided in the one person he could trust not to tell anyone.

Do you think of testifying as brave or cowardly?

It’s necessary for me to sleep at night. I don’t know. It keeps going around and around and around, like I’m worried God is going to strike me down. I can’t have this in the back of my mind that I’m going to get a lightning bolt or something. I’m going to do whatever it takes to get this down, to make sure at night I can sleep.

Did you feel a sense of shame after you told the police about your involvement with burying Hae?

I felt quite ashamed and embarrassed. My girlfriend’s mother learned about it, and spit in my face and called me a murderer. She cussed me out, said how could I let that girl lay out there in the snow for all that time when I knew where she was? I felt ashamed. Damn near got suicidal at one point. I had a lot of feelings, like, I should have done something better or listened better.

Did testifying in Adnan’s trial make you feel better or worse?

The lawyers and police representing the state made me feel like I did well. Or like I did the right thing. And for a time that made me feel better, but it never felt good–it did feel necessary. What I didn’t know was that all this time later it would affect my family.

What do you think about the people who have listened to “Serial” and have said in public forums like Reddit or Twitter that you should be punished for participating in helping dispose of Hae’s body?

Not all your humanity is gone when you do something wrong. Criminals are criminals, and they do fucked up shit, but that doesn’t mean they don’t still have some sort of a moral compass. And once you engage in a criminal act—

Like you did?

Yeah, like I did. You don’t lose your link to humanity.

What would you have done differently?

I don’t know if me not moving in Adnan’s circle of people would have saved her life. Like, I don’t know if I sold more weed or less weed that Hae would still be alive. You know what I’m saying? I don’t know if there’s anything else I could have done. Maybe I could have listened better, and taken what I heard more seriously.

In ‘Serial,’ Sarah Koenig references a moment in the trial where Adnan calls you ‘pathetic’ before you go up to the witness stand. Do you remember that moment?

I think he mouthed something to me. But no, no, no. But nothing like that would be able to get the better of me.

When did you first become aware that Sarah Koenig was working on something about this trial?

Earlier this summer I got some phone calls from people back in Baltimore that a reporter was asking about me and the case. I also got a message around that time from a friend on Facebook saying that some lady is asking about Adnan. But it didn’t stick with me, and I didn’t look into it much further. But earlier this year I had to go back East and was back in Baltimore, because my grandmother died. When I was there I heard from a few people that was harassing people at their jobs, making countless phone calls who kept saying they did not want to speak with her. I was talking to one of my friends, who had just recently gotten over a drug addiction, who she tried to talk to about this case. He told me it was really painful for him, and he didn’t want to go back and revisit this crap.

Tell me about the day she arrived at your house.

There was a knock on my door in late August or early September, I can’t remember exactly when, but I remember I was changing my clothes. As soon as I opened that door I knew that it was her, the woman who was harassing my friends in Baltimore.

Was she alone?

No, it was her and another woman . She said that she was a reporter from New York, and that she worked on a show called ‘This American Life.’ And I knew there was only one thing that anyone would want to come and talk to me about as a reporter, you know?

She said you invited her in.

I did, and I asked her straightforward, ‘Where did the story come from? How did you come about it?’ And she said she was a reporter at the time of the trial and knew about Cristina Gutierrez . So I continued questioning her, and it was clear there were key people who weren’t talking to her. Like Hae’s family, the detectives, and other people who ducked and dodged lawyers and cops so they wouldn’t come to testify. I told Sarah that the only one who deserves any type of closure from any of this is her mom. If had some unanswered questions, and she needs to know what happened here, then I’d say, ‘I’ll walk through all that.’ That’s the only person I’m going through all that shit for.

Did she ever say she was doing a podcast?

No, she said she was doing a radio show. They pitched it to me as an NPR radio show. I could also tell that she was uncomfortable talking to me. Her lips were quivering, and I just felt like she was lying. They were in the love seat over there , and their body language was just making me really uncomfortable. It was confusing because they also pitched this story to me as a documentary, and they wanted to put me on video. By this time my wife was getting real upset. Our kids were crying. My wife knows about my involvement in this case. Because I eventually cooperated with the police and testified, I know that there are people back home who would consider me a snitch and would hurt me. So, for the most part, we’ve been really protective about our privacy. My wife would regularly Google my name to make sure none of my personal information would show up. So when these two women show up at my door it sent my wife into a panic. And when we asked them how they got our address, Koenig said something like, ‘Sadly, it wasn’t hard to find.’

Was the name ‘Serial’ ever used?

No. Not to my recollection. She kept saying ‘This American Life,’ ‘the radio,’ and ‘a documentary.’ There was no talk of ‘Serial’ or a podcast. Then I asked her outright, ‘Are you an advocate for Adnan?’ She said ‘No,’ that she wasn’t his advocate. But she said that she had talked to Adnan, and she wanted to get more information about the case. She said there was new evidence, and I said there’s no new evidence that’s gonna change what I saw: I saw Hae dead in the trunk of the car. If Adnan wants to take the stand now and explain that away, let him. But there’s no evidence that’s gonna change what I saw. I don’t know how she was murdered, I don’t know exactly how she got put in that trunk, and I told the cops that. If Koenig wants to get into how that all happened she can go there. But that doesn’t change what I saw. And that’s the only time I commented directly on the case to her.

Did you ask her to leave at any point?

Yes. My wife took all our kids upstairs. And I think she started Googling Sarah and the other producer. I was downstairs and asked them if they had any business cards that said who they were. They said didn’t have any on them, and that she had to go out to her car and get one. When she came back with a card that didn’t even have her name on it, she apologized for bombarding us, and said that she felt bad that it made us uncomfortable, and that she was really sorry. I asked them to leave at this point because they were upsetting my wife and kids. But she said she was going to be around for another two days, and hopefully they could schedule another time to talk with me, and it wouldn’t be in our house. She kept saying, ‘It’s going to be in your interest to talk to me,’ and that just started to feel like a threat, like if I didn’t talk to her it was going to be bad news for me.

When did you hear from her again?

She sent me an email the next day

From: “Sarah Koenig” <Sarah> Date: Aug 9, 2014 6:11 AM Subject: Yesterday To: <Jay> Cc: Hello Jay, I promise I won’t use this email address to badger you. But I did want to thank you so much for talking to us yesterday and for letting us into your house. I know it wasn’t an easy visit for you or your family. Both Julie and I felt pretty terrible that we caused such upheaval. We didn’t want or mean for that to happen, but I completely understand why it did. I thought it would be important for you to meet me in person, so you could get a sense of who I am and what my intentions are. But I also recognize what a jarring intrusion it was, and I’m sorry about that. I also wanted to thank you for taking the time to think it over. I get that it’s a big decision. Of course we’d be more than happy to have coffee or a drink with you and today (Saturday) or tomorrow, to answer your questions and to try our best to ease any fears you might have. Again, I’m not out to vilify anyone – no one’s talking about revenge or retribution here. That’s not what this is about. I’m not on anyone’s side. I’m a reporter, and I’m trying to figure this case out. I know you and your wife were concerned that we found you. Alas, it wasn’t difficult at all. So I can’t protect you from that, obviously. But I can do my best to make you hard to identify in the story, so that if someone googled your name, for instance, my story wouldn’t come up. I’m not using your last name, and I won’t say where you live – or anything about your family. When you ask what’s the benefit to you, it’s a little hard for me to answer, because it’s kind of a personal question specific to you, and I don’t know you enough to know the answer. But what I can tell you with confidence is that I think in the end, you’ll feel better with the end result if you’re an active voice in the story — rather than someone who’s being talked about, you get to do the talking. I think the simplest pitch I can make to you is: You have a story about what happened to you, and you should be the one to tell it. That’s why I came to , to ask you to tell your story. You’re in the documentary either way, so it just seems more respectful and fair to you to let you tell what happened, rather then having me piece it together from whatever I can glean from the record. On paper, in the trial transcript, you’re two-dimensional. But in real life, of course you’re more than just a state’s witness. You’re a person who went through a traumatic thing. To hear you call yourself a “scoundrel with scruples” – that made me want to understand who you were then, and who you are now. And also, even just meeting you yesterday for that short time, hearing you talk so forcefully about what you saw, and about Adnan’s guilt – for both Julie and me, that was powerful and clarifying. No one else knows what you know about this whole case, and so even just the few things you said – it’s exactly what I’ve been waiting to hear. . . .

What did you imagine was going to happen if you didn’t talk to her?

I thought since I didn’t cooperate with her she would just make a little blurb about me in the story and then she would move on to whatever this ‘new evidence’ was or whatever Adnan had to tell her. I didn’t think I would be demonized.

Have you ever listened to the podcast?

I’ve never been able to listen to the podcast. My wife reads the transcripts and tells me about them. The first time I started to get really scared and feel jeopardized by ‘Serial’ was in the middle of the night, one night maybe around the second or third week of the show. One of my buddies from Baltimore calls me and says, ‘Hey, man they got your voice across the radio and shit, man, talking about shit that happened a while ago. They’re saying your name and shit. They’ve got you plastered across the Internet.’

Suppose Koenig came here and said up front that, based on her conversations with Adnan, revealing the evidence in the case, and talking to other people, that she believed that there was a good chance that Adnan is likely innocent. If she told you that up front, and was completely transparent about what she thought about this case, would you have felt more comfortable talking to her?

No. I would have told her the same thing: There’s nothing that’s gonna change the fact that this guy drove up in front of my grandmother’s house, popped the trunk, and had his dead girlfriend in the trunk. Anything that’s going to make him innocent doesn’t involve me. Hae was dead before she got to my house. Anything that makes Adnan innocent doesn’t involve me. There is a specific point where I became involved in this. What happened before that, I don’t know. Maybe Adnan had something to tell her, something magical that happens that changes all the facts in the case. But she can talk to him about that. I didn’t have anything to add. There’s no point in me participating in that conversation.

If you’re telling the truth, then what harm would it be to talk to Koenig?

I am telling the truth, and look what happens when I didn’t talk to her. Look how she’s demonized me. And I feel like if I did talk to her, it would have given her twice as much ammo to twist my words. She came to my house and frightened me and my wife. Then came out and said that I had ‘animal rage.’

Would you have talked to another reporter?

Before this podcast thing happened, no. Only if Hae’s family wanted me to so they could have some sort of peace. I don’t want to talk about this for entertainment purposes.

Why did you decide to talk to me?

I’m trying to clear my name. I’m worried for the safety of my family. I think the truth is important, and I’m trying to tell it–not for entertainment value.

In what ways has your life changed?

Do you ever read Reddit? Have you read the subReddit about this case and about me?

Yes.

Everything’s changed.

COMING NEXT PART 3: The collateral damage of an extremely popular podcast.

Matt Tinoco and Alleen Brown provided research for this interview.

Photo Illustration: Koenig: Meredith Heuer; Jay Wilds: Natasha Vargas-Cooper; Syed: Imgur

_
http://www.yothatsmyjawn.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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Vex_id
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64691 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 09:32 PM

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58. "Jay should've stayed quiet - this makes him look even worse."
In response to Reply # 0


          

What was really odd to me was how he kept trying to assert that Adnan was this 'loser' that was about to be found out. He repeatedly said "Adnan was arrogant but was really a loser, and he couldn't handle it.'

lol huh? Sounds like dude had some grudge against him for some unspecified reason.

-->

  

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LadyLoveChild
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Wed Dec-31-14 06:36 AM

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60. "Jay was cheating on Stephanie with Jen and Hae confronted Jay"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://persephonemagazine.com/2014/12/making-sense-of-serial-who-did-it/
In the final episode of Serial, Sarah Koenig’s producer, Dana, talks about the terrible luck that Adnan has. If he is innocent, she theorizes, he is the victim of an unbelievable number of unfortunate consequences. What is heavily implied is that Adnan’s story – his fuzzy memory, lending the car to the guy who implicated him, butt dials and questionable cell phone records – is conveniently fabricated. If you remove emotion from the story and just rely on logic, all signs point to Adnan’s guilt.

However, it’s just not true. His luck is only terrible if you believe Jay’s story, and there is no reason to believe Jay’s story. The only bit of “bad luck” that Adnan has is that he has a hard time remembering details from an unremarkable day, which would happen to anybody. His memory doesn’t match up with the cell phone records – because there is nothing clear in his mind about a day that happened six weeks before. Everything else (even the Nisha call!) can be reconciled with a different timeline of events, one that, of course, Jay wouldn’t want to tell the police.

The fact that Adnan let Jay borrow his car doesn’t mean he has terrible luck – it just means that he was naïve and unassuming. He let a guy borrow his car, then that guy murdered his friend and framed him. That is terrible luck. But the “it’s not possible for him to be innocent because there are too many coincidences” theory is a bad theory. Unfortunate coincidences only exist if you believe Jay’s story – and Jay made up the story so as to contain unlucky coincidences.

We can all agree that Jay’s version of events is wrong. He was described by all who knew him as a liar, his version of events – including critical details that would be difficult to misremember – changed constantly for police, he was absolutely involved with the crime and wanted to minimize his role. We can also (in my opinion) agree that Adnan’s version is wrong. The day was unremarkable, there are aspects that he originally didn’t remember but did once prompted (seeing Asia in the library, for example), there’s no reason to put stock in what he thinks happened or didn’t happen. I also believe that Jenn’s story is suspect, for a mixture of both reasons – she could misremember events from earlier in the day, and she was also invested in protecting Jay, even if she didn’t know fully what his part in the crime was.

A note: I assume that Jay was cheating on Stephanie with Jenn. I think this for a myriad of reasons – it was referred to in the trial (Christina Guitierez referred to it as “stepping out”), Adnan’s best friend Saad talked about it on Reddit, and, most importantly, the number of phone calls between Jenn and Jay (and the fact that her testimony suggests that he spent the night at her house) very heavily imply a sexual relationship.

In general, I think it’s reasonable to assume that people’s memories are shoddy when it comes to specific times and order of events. I think it is unreasonable to assume that if somebody heard something unbelievable like “I just buried a body” or “hey look at this body in this trunk” they would then misremember the details. If there are inconsistencies with such remarkable events, they are lies. I think it’s reasonable to assume that Jenn is lying because she is trying to protect Jay. I think it’s reasonable to assume that Jay is lying because he is trying to protect Jay.

This leaves us with a basic skeleton of events (Hae went to school, Hae was murdered, Hae was buried, Hae’s car was dropped off, Jay knew where Hae’s car was, Adnan usually went to school and track practice, everybody smoked a lot of weed) and a cell phone log, which helps us to see where Jay and Adnan were, and when.

The following timeline answers all of the possible lingering questions about what happened that day. As you read, I suggest that you open up the interactive cell phone tower map on the Serial website, and the cell phone call log, to follow along. Or, if you aren’t as obsessed as I am, you can just take my word for it and follow along with what I’ve found.

The cell tower map showing pings around the Baltimore area
The cell tower map, available on the Serial website, tells the whole story

10:45 a.m.: Adnan calls Jay to remind him about Stephanie’s present. The cell phone tower pings near Woodlawn high school, where Adnan is calling from. Jay picks up Adnan’s car and phone; Adnan stays at school. It is around this time that Adnan asks Hae if he can have a ride after school, because Jay is taking Adnan’s car and phone. Hae says okay.

12:07 p.m.: Jay calls Jenn at home. Since Jay is “stepping out” with Jenn, they are in near constant communication. The cell tower pings out to the west, near I-70, Jay is just driving around.

Jay heads down to the area where he originally told investigators he saw Hae’s body in the trunk – Sarah Koenig mentioned that was an area of town (the strip) where he often bought drugs. He went there to get drugs.

12:41: Jay calls Jenn. The cell phone tower pings near the strip.

12:43: Incoming call from Hae. She knows Jay has Adnan’s car and cell phone because Adnan asked her for a ride. She calls Jay to see if she can score some weed. Her original plan: get some weed, pick up her cousin, meet up with Don at his work. If you look at the map of Baltimore with the relevant sites, it makes sense to quickly meet up with Jay to get weed before going to get her cousin (going to get her cousin first would require her to loop back, and make her even later for the wrestling match). One aspect of the story that hasn’t been discussed much is how Hae got sidetracked on the way to get her cousin – it makes sense to me that she decided to pick up weed on the way to get her cousin, and then didn’t make it to the next step of her plan.

The night before, Hae had told Don that she was planning on skipping the wrestling meet. This is why she at first told Adnan she could give him a ride – if she wasn’t going to the wrestling meet, she would have a lot of time. Later in the day, she told Adnan that something came up – she had decided instead to go to the wrestling meet, in part because the new assistant manager didn’t know how to keep score. This meant that she would not have time to take Adnan anywhere, and instead, she would write a note and leave it on Don’s car, explaining why she wasn’t waiting for him after work. She writes a note to Don, explaining that she is “sorry I couldn’t stay,” ready to leave it on his car. Her new plan: Score some weed, pick up her cousin, drive by the mall to leave the note on Don’s car, and go to the wrestling match.

Thus, at 12:43, she calls Jay to ask him to get her some weed. He tells her to meet him in the parking lot of Best Buy (where often shady things happen) after school. This call pings the cell tower near the strip, where Jay buys his drugs, which is where he will eventually drop the car.

After school, because Adnan can’t get a ride with Hae anymore, Adnan hangs out at the library, with nothing else to do before track. He sees Asia McClane. Hae rushes around, picks up a snack, heads to Best Buy.

2:36: Hae calls Jay to let him know that she is at Best Buy, to bring her the weed. He is already nearby, so the cell tower pings near Best Buy. This call, which is described in Jay’s timeline as “come and get me, I’m at Best Buy,” actually is “come to Best Buy,” but it’s Hae instead of Adnan. Since she had already talked to Jay, the call is short. He knows she’s going to call and there’s no need for much talking.

Hae meets up with Jay, he gets in her car to give her the weed. Being assertive/aggressive and confident, she tells him that she has heard that he is cheating on Stephanie.

Stephanie is Jay’s “everything.” He will do “anything” to protect her, but he is impulsive, and has started a side relationship with Jenn. Hae has heard about this and, as Stephanie’s friend, thinks that it is wrong. She tells Jay that either Jay will tell Stephanie or Hae will.

Jenn and Jay are definitely an item. He is constantly calling her throughout the day, and Jenn testifies that she picks him up at night when he has to clean off the shovel, and takes him the next morning to drop off his dirty clothes (quite possibly he spent the night at her house). When Jenn mentions that Jay lies all the time, she says that Jay but wouldn’t ever lie to her – very much what a mistress would think. She is willing to create an alibi for him – not talking to the cops until he says it is okay – because as the other woman, what she has going for her is that she is always willing to go the extra distance.

Jay cannot stand the thought of Stephanie finding out – and he sees Hae as the instigator of the trouble. He sees Hae as a threat to Stephanie, because if she tells Stephanie, Stephanie will be hurt. He can’t let this happen. He strangles Hae in the car. He leaves her body in the car, trying to figure out what to do. He drives Adnan’s car to his (Jay’s) house to get a shovel, intending to bury the body right away. As he looks at Hae, he thinks immediately of “how fragile Stephanie is” (as he told the police) because, in his sick way, he killed Hae to protect Stephanie, because Hae was going to hurt Stephanie by telling on him.

As Jay kills Hae, he thinks about how tough this murder makes him. Just like when he wanted to stab his friend Chris just because Chris had never been stabbed, Jay thinks about violence as a status symbol. When Jay talks to the detectives, Jay says about Adnan, “He said that he couldn’t believe he killed somebody with his bare hands, that all the other motherfuckers referring to hoods and thugs and stuff think they’re hardcore. But he just killed a person with his bare hands.” This is absolutely not in line with what anybody thinks about Adnan – nobody talks about Adnan as a guy trying to prove how tough he is. On the other hand, Josh (who worked with Jay at the porn store) made it clear that that was how people felt about Jay – that he was tough but not really tough enough. The person who might think “now everybody will take me seriously” is Jay. When Jay is talking to the detectives, he is telling them bits and pieces of truth – except instead of it being “the story as Adnan told it to me,” it is “the story as I experienced it.”

3:15: Incoming call. This is Adnan calling to tell Jay that he is at the library, to come get him, maybe they’ll hang out/smoke before track practice. The cell tower near Best Buy is pinged, as Jay had returned to Hae’s car with the shovel. He puts the shovel into Hae’s car, drives to Adnan, picks him up. Hae’s car (and body) stays at Best Buy. Jay’s story about the car being at Best Buy or not being at Best Buy changes because he is afraid that there are cameras at Best Buy, and also because Jay lies, all the time, about everything.

Adnan does not remember Jay coming to see him at school because Adnan doesn’t remember the day well. Maybe he wanted Jay to drop off weed, maybe he wanted Jay to show him Stephanie’s present, maybe he was just bored at the library. The cell phone records indicate that Jay met up with Adnan at this point, and nothing in Adnan’s general timeline (school, then nothing much, then track) contradicts Jay coming to meet up with Adnan.

3:21: Jay calls Jenn, on the way to pick up Adnan again. Just checking in, as you do when you have a mistress. The cell phone tower near Best Buy/Woodlawn is pinged.

Jenn’s testimony from this time says that Jay was at her house. The fact that somebody (and that somebody was almost certainly Jay) called Jenn at this time, and pinged near Woodlawn, suggests that at the very least her memory is shoddy. Coupled with the fact that she wants to protect Jay, and has reason to believe he’s involved in a crime at this time, it is not surprising that she would say that he was at her house. She is an unreliable witness, and where her story matches the call log, it’s worth paying attention to what she says. Where her story does not match the call log, the call log is more reliable, and we can assume that she misremembered or lied.

3:32: Adnan is now with Jay and the cell phone, near the school. Adnan uses the phone to call Nisha, just checking in as you do when you have a new ladyfriend. The cell phone pings near Best Buy/Woodlawn. Jay then drops Adnan off at practice.

3:48: Call to Phil, pings near Westlawn. Jay is heading back to Best Buy, leaving Adnan’s car and picking up Hae/her car/the shovel.

3:59: Jay calls Patrick as he drops Adnan off at school. Cell tower pings near Woodlawn. Jay heads to Leakin Park.

4:12: Jay calls Jenn at home, checking in. Cell tower pings in Leakin Park, near where Hae’s body is buried. Obviously. Jay knows he has the two hours of track practice (approximately 4:00 – 6:00 p.m.) to bury the body.

4:27: Incoming call. Cell tower pings near Westview shopping center. This is also not far from Leakin Park, and could be an overlap area. Jay is trying to find a good spot to bury the body.

4:58: Incoming call. Same cell tower pinging near Westview, Jenn’s house, and Leakin Park. Jay is continuing to try to find a place to bury the body, driving around the area of Leakin Park. This call is Jenn, calling Jay – he asks her to come pick him up, won’t say why or how, just that he needs her to. “Pick me up at the strip at 5:45.” Jay shuts off the phone because he has some digging to do.

5:14: A call is made that goes straight to voicemail, because Jay has shut off the phone while he buries Hae. During this time, Jay buries Hae in Leakin Park, drives to the nearby Westview shopping center to drop the shovel, and drives Hae’s car near the strip, where he leaves it until he brings detectives to it.

This, to me, is a critical call. The call does not ping on any towers, and goes straight to voicemail, indicating that either the phone is out of range (unlikely) or turned off. Why would somebody turn off the phone? My guess is that Jay was trying to focus on getting Hae’s body buried, and could not risk any more interruptions of incoming calls. He turns off the phone and gets to work.

Jay turns the phone back on.

5:38: Jay accidentally dials Krista. The cell phone tower near Hae’s car is pinged. This is an accidental call – it lasts for only two seconds. It places the cell phone near Hae’s car drop-off. He walks to the strip area, Jenn picks him up, brings him back to Best Buy.

6:00: Jay picks Adnan up from track. They drive to Cathy’s to get high. At this point, Jay is acting weird, because he is freaking out. Adnan is acting weird because he is super high.

6:07: Aisha calls Adnan to ask if he knows where Hae is; says the police are calling. This pings near Cathy’s house. Adnan freaks out because he is super high and he’s afraid that his parents will know. He wants to know how to get rid of a high.

6:09: Another short incoming call, pings near Cathy’s house.

6:24: The police call Adnan and talk to him for a few minutes. He realizes how high he is and that he needs to come down. Jay is freaking out because of Hae; Adnan is freaking out because he is too high. They start to drive around.

6:59: Near Woodlawn. Adnan calls Yaser to tell him he’s coming to the mosque later, but he’s super high and wants to come down. Pings near Woodlawn.

7:00: Jay pages Jenn, pings also near Woodlawn. They are going to drive around, he wants Jenn to pick him up later. He pages her to get her to call him and let her know.

7:09, 7:16: Both of these calls are incoming calls, presumably Jenn calling after Jay has paged her. Tellingly, they are in Leakin Park. This “looks bad for Adnan” if you believe Jay’s story – that they buried Hae’s body after track. However, if you don’t believe Jay’s story (and you shouldn’t), of course they are in Leakin Park. Adnan is trying to get down from a high so is content to just drive around, Jay wants to go back to where he buried Hae to see if you can tell from the road that anything is amiss. Adnan doesn’t notice where they are because he thinks they are just driving aimlessly and he is completely stoned.

When Jenn makes these calls, Jay tells her that he wants her to pick him up around 8:30. He tells her he will page her, and for her to come pick him up at Westview, because after surreptitiously checking the burial spot, he realizes that he wants to double-check the shovel.

8:04, 8:05: Jay pages Jenn to ask her to pick him up soon. Cell towers ping outside of Leakin Park, where they are driving out of. Adnan and Jay drive to Westview. Jenn picks up Jay, Adnan drives away with his car.

Jenn remembers clearly that she saw Adnan and Jay drive up together, and Adnan got out of the car and said hi. Jay’s story is different – he says that he was dropped off at Jenn’s. Adnan doesn’t remember details, as per usual.

Adnan’s memory is bad because it was an uneventful day, Jay is lying because he doesn’t want to admit about the shovel. Although Jenn has some inconsistencies in her memory (like when/if she hung out with Jay), this particular event is unlikely to be misremembered – Jay got in her car and then told her that he helped to bury Hae’s body. Jenn is likely to remember correctly the details about where and when this happened.

She is also not likely to lie to try to help Jay out on this one, because he has already admitted to helping bury Hae.

This is important because Jay got in the car and told Jenn that they had just thrown out the shovel(s) a few moments before, but a small detail in Jenn’s story is telling. Jenn said she was waiting for them, saw them arrive, and then saw Jay get in her car. This means that they could not have just dropped off the shovel (or she would have seen them dump it), but somebody must have tossed the shovel earlier. If we believe Jenn’s story, which backs up Jay’s story, they could not have just gotten back from burying Hae. The shovel had already been dropped.

Jay gets in Jenn’s car, drops the news that he helped bury Hae, and they loop back around and wipe down the shovel.

9:01, etc.: Adnan is back, alone, with his cell phone, near his house. He calls Nisha, calls Krista, everything pings near his house. He has the phone the rest of the night, he goes to the mosque, just as he (and everybody else) has said he probably did.

If you believe Jay’s story (or… one of the many stories that Jay tells), the cell phone logs don’t match up, and there are all sorts of problems. If you don’t believe Jay’s story, and instead build up a timeline based on the facts – the cell log, the map, Adnan’s general school/track schedule, the fact that Hae was murdered, buried, and her car was dropped – everything falls into place.

living everyday grateful for his grace!

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
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Wed Dec-31-14 08:05 AM

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62. "this was my theory the whole time "
In response to Reply # 60
Wed Dec-31-14 08:06 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

only i suspected jay was either creeping with hae or obsessed or both
and she threatened to tell stephanie or maybe even told him no chance

so he killed her
and put it all on adnan

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
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Wed Dec-31-14 09:41 AM

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63. "^^^this makes so much sense."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

  

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Niq96st
Member since Jun 16th 2005
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Wed Dec-31-14 12:04 PM

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69. "So why doesn't Hae write about it in her diary?"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

I mean, she wrote about every other damn thing going on in her life.

_______________________________
Maintain chill at all times.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Dec-31-14 12:08 PM

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70. "Fair point!"
In response to Reply # 69


          

I was fully on board with this theory until you said this. But maybe she JUST found out about it that day and brought it up with Jay when she went to pick up bud. Who knows.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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luminous
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Wed Dec-31-14 01:28 PM

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71. "yep, I think jay did it..."
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--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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73. "Same problem with this Theory. If True, Adnan would be screaming"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

"Clearly Jay did it!!! I know I didn't do it, so Jay is clearly lying and he knows too many details that only the killer would know!!"


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
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Wed Dec-31-14 05:30 PM

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76. "then there is this "
In response to Reply # 73
Wed Dec-31-14 05:31 PM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

smh man i would have hated to be on this jury
i just don't see how you can convict adnan

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Dec-31-14 08:20 PM

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79. "There is only explanation I can think of. "
In response to Reply # 76
Wed Dec-31-14 08:21 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

The truth is that, even if Adnan did it, it would still be in his best interest to point the finger at Jay and say he did it. Like if Adnan is lying about his role, there is a softball of a much better lie he could be telling than he doesn't remember (i.e., Jay did it and told it).

So there maybe some other reason he isn't pointing at Jay regardless of whether he did it or not.

The best theory I can come up it is with is that he is at peace with how it has all worked out (even if he didn't do it). Like maybe he feels responsible. He does seem to have a certain peace with how things turned out and that could be not because he actually did it but he sees all of this as a result of him not being faithful to his faith.

Just a theory.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Fri Jan-02-15 10:10 AM

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84. "That has less to do with the theory and more to do with Adnan's personal..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

They made a point of saying he won't say anything if he can't prove it. He hasn't thrown any theories out there...just the facts he knows. Besides, him screaming that Jay did would be just as likely if he were guilty or innocent. It wouldn't really sway things one way or another.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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GROOVEPHI
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Wed Dec-31-14 10:30 AM

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64. "thats my high school"
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Melanism
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Wed Dec-31-14 10:47 AM

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65. "If Jay and Adnan buried her at midnight, then.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...the prosecution's case is destroyed.

The entire case against Adnan was Jay's story matching up with the ping from the cell phone tower.

If they buried her at midnight instead of 7 PM, then all the other calls become irrelevant and the prosecution's entire case revolves around the jury believing Jay with the only proof being that he knew where Hae's car was.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Dec-31-14 05:27 PM

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75. "The idea that they buried the body at 7pm is a bit strange. "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

Why wouldn't they wait until later if they had the chance?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

  

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Chanson
Member since Nov 09th 2004
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Wed Dec-31-14 11:12 AM

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67. "Season 2 has to still be about this case now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This shit has opened up a new big ass can of worms.

mind
--------
matter

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Wed Dec-31-14 01:30 PM

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72. "Plus you have the Innocence Project DNA results, Adnan's next appeal . ...."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

Shit's about to get crazygonuts.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Wed Dec-31-14 03:06 PM

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74. "i aint listening to this bullshit no more though"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Binlahab
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Thu Jan-01-15 10:04 AM

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80. "i want season 2 to be about the disappearance of relisha rudd"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

this shit is dead


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
3938 posts
Thu Jan-01-15 11:00 PM

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81. "nah"
In response to Reply # 67


          

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28484 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 07:19 PM

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77. "I flip flopped so many times during the series "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

At the end of the day
It's too many coincidences

  

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illegal
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Wed Dec-31-14 07:30 PM

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78. "part 3 up."
In response to Reply # 0


          

***
when I come around, they frown
then wanna dap me down
but when I leave?

  

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Deluge
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Thu Jan-01-15 11:08 PM

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82. "The whole way this podcast and it's aftermath is playing out..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is just odd. I guess that's the day and age we're living in, but it's being discussed as if people don't even remember real people are involved here.

  

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BigReg
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Fri Jan-02-15 10:16 AM

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85. "Years of law and order, etc..."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

has subconciously taught us to treat crime/death, etc as plotpoints as opposed to things that happen to real people.

It's why I thought the flack Bestbuy got for their tweet (which was pretty minor) interesting because it felt like the first time anyone had a reality check that someone actually died with all these debates.

  

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