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Subject: "Obama, US/Cuba Relations and Joanna Chesimard aka Assata Shakur" Previous topic | Next topic
vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:25 PM

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"Obama, US/Cuba Relations and Joanna Chesimard aka Assata Shakur"


  

          

They're saying that w/these recent talks by the Obama administration to renew discussions w/Cuba about lifting or softening the sanctions against the country will make it easier to go after Assata if the sanctions are lifted

It's like Obama's opponents are saying if you're going to lift sanctions then we're going to go after her

Obama should just pardon her...but I know the fallout from doing that would be hell to pay - I wouldn't doubt that when it comes to Obama that his pardons all of a sudden have to get improved first



http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-courts%2Fcops-hope-cuba-thaw-will-lead-capture-fugitive-joanne-chesimard-n270811&h=oAQHz86gK&enc=AZP0aoFqu2puQ8B2MmpDXJ8RoAtx5mst18dNh4EBLq3iIs7eQK2mX0Bl9io5qu2TkVIWeCzvqX8rKsJBm1o3P5qtixIkPcujbZUFLoXfdJ2--Lk0MCCRJweuf4sJB_Yk5vo&s=1

Cops Hope Cuba Thaw Will Lead to Capture of Fugitive Joanne Chesimard
Police in New Jersey hope the thaw in American relations with Cuba will lead to the capture of a notorious fugitive — a 1970s black radical who was convicted of shooting a trooper to death, escaped prison and fled to the island.

Joanne Chesimard, also known as Assata Shakur, fled to Cuba after busting out of prison in 1979 with the help of accomplices from the Black Liberation Army and the left-wing radical group Weather Underground.

She was convicted in the 1973 shooting death of Trooper Werner Foerster, who had stopped Chesimard and two associates. He was finished off with his own gun. The FBI says Chesimard's gun was found at his side. Last year, the bureau made her the first woman on its list of most wanted terrorists.

Authorities in New Jersey have tried and failed to extradite Chesimard, but they hope their luck might change with a new era of openness between the two countries. There is a $2 million reward for Chesimard's capture.

"We stand by the reward money and hope that the total of $2 million will prompt fresh information in the light of this altered international relationship," the New Jersey State Police said in a statement Wednesday.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
She could just move to Venezuela...
Dec 18th 2014
1
It makes sense. Venezuela hates the US just as much as Cuba.
Dec 20th 2014
25
This is one of the main reasons they want a NWO.
Dec 18th 2014
2
no way he pardons her. even walking out the door he won't...
Dec 18th 2014
3
Exactly...
Dec 18th 2014
4
      Clinton pardoned FALN, Weather Underground and Marc Rich
Dec 18th 2014
8
           Let's take a step back here...
Dec 18th 2014
9
           Nah, fam, go back and read the transcript - a neurologists testified
Dec 18th 2014
13
                From Obama, it is. It's not a federal charge.
Dec 18th 2014
14
                     Obama probably wouldn't but I'm just saying there's precedent and
Dec 18th 2014
17
           And at least the Panthers were under attack from the local and state
Dec 18th 2014
10
                But you're overlooking the biggest factor against her...
Dec 18th 2014
12
                     You're mistaken
Dec 18th 2014
15
                          And how much money has the Chesimard family given to Obama?
Dec 18th 2014
18
cuba would have to agree sign an extradition treaty with the u.s
Dec 18th 2014
5
If Nixon can be pardoned then Ms. A can be pardoned
Dec 18th 2014
6
^^^^yes!
Dec 18th 2014
7
for what though?
Dec 18th 2014
21
Here is the info from the JD
Dec 18th 2014
11
Marc Rich
Dec 18th 2014
16
      I forgot about him!
Dec 18th 2014
19
wait a minute.
Dec 18th 2014
20
Look at you up in here making sense and dealing in facts...
Dec 18th 2014
22
Your right, I assumed she had Fed charges
Dec 18th 2014
23
      i'd thought so too.
Dec 18th 2014
24
I'm not sure Cuba would do anything to extradite her...ever..
Dec 21st 2014
26
Cuba Says It Has a Right to Grant Asylum to US Fugitives(partial swipe)
Dec 22nd 2014
27
see also: France.
Dec 22nd 2014
28

CRichMonkey
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:28 PM

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1. "She could just move to Venezuela... "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Nothing's stopping her from flying from one country without an extradition agreement with the US to another that doesn't have one.

If she gets caught, it's on her.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18071 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 08:52 PM

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25. "It makes sense. Venezuela hates the US just as much as Cuba."
In response to Reply # 1


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13353 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:33 PM

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2. "This is one of the main reasons they want a NWO."
In response to Reply # 0


          

The fact that there is asylum for us burns these melanin-recessive mf's up worse than UV rays.

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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BigJazz
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:37 PM

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3. "no way he pardons her. even walking out the door he won't..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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CRichMonkey
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:40 PM

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4. "Exactly... "
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

She might not be guilty, but she's guilty enough and she's been on the run for so long, she would have to face the system if she were to be brought back to the states.

I'm not gonna be popular for saying this here, but she's the radical black left's equivalent of an abortion clinic bomber on the right. Some things won't be forgiven in larger society.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

  

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louie_depalma
Member since May 12th 2009
1677 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:02 PM

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8. "Clinton pardoned FALN, Weather Underground and Marc Rich"
In response to Reply # 4


          

There's precedence here. People have to demand it.

  

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CRichMonkey
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:08 PM

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9. "Let's take a step back here... "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Those are white people who committed crimes against property and money. Not black folks accused of killing cops.

We're talking about someone who was given due process (even if you don't agree with the outcome), convicted and sentenced who escaped from prison. There's no "new" evidence to exonerate her, there's no way around the fact that she escaped from jail and thus forfeited her right to appeal through the proper channels.

You can't say she should be pardoned because it would be a nice thing to do, there has to be precedence and cover. There's neither here.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:26 PM

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13. "Nah, fam, go back and read the transcript - a neurologists testified"
In response to Reply # 9
Thu Dec-18-14 07:42 PM by vee-lover

  

          

that she had her hands up when she was shot

And the evidence showed she HAD NO GUN RESIDUE ON HER HANDS OR ANY OF THE WEAPONS which alone should be grounds for a new trial

But a pardon as far as I'm concerned isn't out of the question

>Those are white people who committed crimes against property
>and money. Not black folks accused of killing cops.
>
>We're talking about someone who was given due process (even if
>you don't agree with the outcome), convicted and sentenced who
>escaped from prison. There's no "new" evidence to exonerate
>her, there's no way around the fact that she escaped from jail
>and thus forfeited her right to appeal through the proper
>channels.
>
>You can't say she should be pardoned because it would be a
>nice thing to do, there has to be precedence and cover.
>There's neither here.
>
>
>my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right:
>http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
>my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com
>
>*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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CRichMonkey
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:31 PM

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14. "From Obama, it is. It's not a federal charge. "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:39 PM

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17. "Obama probably wouldn't but I'm just saying there's precedent and"
In response to Reply # 14
Thu Dec-18-14 07:40 PM by vee-lover

  

          

That there's evidence/testimony that shows she was more than likely framed for killing a policeman

And given what we now know abt Hoover/COINTELPRO and the all-out attack on the Panthers, I think she's deserving of at least a new trial

But if Obama does pardon her on his way out, wtf can anyone do abt it?????


>my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right:
>http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
>my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com
>
>*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:16 PM

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10. "And at least the Panthers were under attack from the local and state"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

government (Reagan and Hoover) and had no choice but to defend themselves

The Weather Undergound were a bunch of privileged white kids who took it upon themselves to blow up federal buildings...and several of them didn't even do any jail time

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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CRichMonkey
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:23 PM

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12. "But you're overlooking the biggest factor against her... "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

She was convicted and then she escaped. She ran. That changes the calculation and makes it a difficult case to justify.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

  

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louie_depalma
Member since May 12th 2009
1677 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:35 PM

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15. "You're mistaken"
In response to Reply # 12


          

I posted those names for a reason. Marc Rich never servede a minute in jail - He ran. Weather underground and FALN killed lots of people, including law enforcement. The idea that you have to serve all of your time to have your sentence commuted or pardoned or that you have to throw yourself at the mercy of someone is laughable.

Pardons are at the discretion of the president. Most people aren't even involved in the pardon campaign.

  

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CRichMonkey
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:40 PM

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18. "And how much money has the Chesimard family given to Obama?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Because capitalism before justice.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

  

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akon
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Thu Dec-18-14 06:26 PM

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5. "cuba would have to agree sign an extradition treaty with the u.s"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

which would then obligate them to give her up
unless that happens, there's no way new jersey police can just burst into havanna and kidnap assata
do we know if she's been granted cuban citizenship? (but then with u.s laws i dont even think this matters, isnt it true y'all cant really give up your citizenship?)

so i think we mainly need to worry about whetehr or not there are some cubans in the u.s that the cuban government wants extradited
i dont know enough about this.
unless this is the case...
and even with an extradition treaty- there are still ways the cuban government can circumvent this.

it does give one pause for thought


.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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Thu Dec-18-14 06:34 PM

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6. "If Nixon can be pardoned then Ms. A can be pardoned"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It will have to be the last thing he does before walking out of the door, like right before he turns out the lights.
Bush pardoned a rapper for fucks sake and a buncha other bammas that had no business being pardoned.

If Obama pardons her, I might actually forgive him for hope and change.


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 06:47 PM

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7. "^^^^yes!"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>It will have to be the last thing he does before walking out
>of the door, like right before he turns out the lights.
>Bush pardoned a rapper for fucks sake and a buncha other
>bammas that had no business being pardoned.
>
>If Obama pardons her, I might actually forgive him for hope
>and change.
>
>
>___________________________________________________________
>
>
>DJTB YOMM

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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SoWhat
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:04 PM

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21. "for what though?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Nixon was convicted by Congress of committing violations of federal law.

Obama can pardon federal convicts.

Assata hasn't been convicted in federal court of any federal crime.

how can Obama pardon her?

fuck you.

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:22 PM

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11. "Here is the info from the JD"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


There are the two I'd be worried about her satisfying
http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon_instructions.htm

3. Five-year waiting period required

Under the Department's rules governing petitions for executive clemency, 28 C.F.R. §§ 1.1 et seq., an applicant must satisfy a minimum waiting period of five years before he becomes eligible to apply for a presidential pardon of his federal conviction. The waiting period, which is designed to afford the petitioner a reasonable period of time in which to demonstrate an ability to lead a responsible, productive and law-abiding life, begins on the date of the petitioner's release from confinement. Alternatively, if the conviction resulted in a sentence that did not include any form of confinement, including community or home confinement, the waiting period begins on the date of sentencing. In addition, the petitioner should have fully satisfied the penalty imposed, including all probation, parole, or supervised release before applying for clemency. Moreover, the waiting period begins upon release from confinement for your most recent conviction, whether or not this is the offense for which pardon is sought. You may make a written request for a waiver of this requirement. However, waiver of any portion of the waiting period is rarely granted and then only in the most exceptional circumstances. In order to request a waiver, you must complete the pardon application form and submit it with a cover letter explaining why you believe the waiting period should be waived in your case.

4. Reason for seeking pardon

In answering question 20, you should state the specific purpose for which you are seeking pardon and, if applicable, attach any relevant documentary evidence that indicates how a pardon will help you accomplish that purpose (such as citations to applicable provisions of state constitutions, statutes, or regulations, or copies of letters from appropriate officials of administrative agencies, professional associations, licensing authorities, etc.). In addition, you should bear in mind that a presidential pardon is ordinarily a sign of forgiveness and is granted in recognition of the applicant's acceptance of responsibility for the crime and established good conduct for a significant period of time after conviction or release from confinement. A pardon is not a sign of vindication and does not connote or establish innocence. For that reason, when considering the merits of a pardon petition, pardon officials take into account the petitioner's acceptance of responsibility, remorse, and atonement for the offense.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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louie_depalma
Member since May 12th 2009
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:38 PM

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16. "Marc Rich"
In response to Reply # 11


          

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:46 PM

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19. "I forgot about him! "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Wow. That shit is unbelievable. They were gonna give this bamma 300 years in jail.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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SoWhat
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:02 PM

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20. "wait a minute."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

forgive me for asking a stupid question

Assata was convicted of murder, et al in a New Jersey state court.

she was acquitted in 1 federal trial (robbery) and the other ended in a hung jury (robbery, conspiracy, assault w/a d-w).

do y'all want Obama to pardon her in the case w/the hung jury?

b/c he can only pardon her in a federal case, not a state case. so he can't pardon her for murder.

and so even if he pardons her on the fed charge, she's still a convicted murderer. NJ's gov may be able to pardon her for that - i assume that's possible.



fuck you.

  

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CRichMonkey
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:09 PM

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22. "Look at you up in here making sense and dealing in facts... "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

You go boy.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:25 PM

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23. "Your right, I assumed she had Fed charges "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Because she's on the Fed's most wanted list and they are calling her a domestic terrorist.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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SoWhat
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:34 PM

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24. "i'd thought so too."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

i assumed she'd been convicted of bank robbery in fed court and that was why the FBI had her on one of its wanted lists.

fuck you.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Sun Dec-21-14 12:14 AM

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26. "I'm not sure Cuba would do anything to extradite her...ever.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but I mean her biggest supporter there was Castro himself who is very ill..and I'm not sure his brother is going to be as determined to hold out on things like Fidel would be..

She's getting older...so moving to another country would be a challenge.....but that may be what she needs to do...

if Cuba becomes more open...then it's possible someone would try to go there and bring her back as opposed to the Cuban gov. officially extraditing her...

  

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Zion3Lion
Member since Dec 23rd 2002
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Mon Dec-22-14 07:56 PM

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27. "Cuba Says It Has a Right to Grant Asylum to US Fugitives(partial swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

HAVANA — Cuba said Monday that it has a right to grant asylum to U.S. fugitives, the clearest sign yet that the communist government has no intention of extraditing America's most-wanted woman despite the warming of bilateral ties.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie has urged President Barack Obama to demand the return of fugitive Joanne Chesimard before restoring full relations under a historic detente announced by Obama and Cuban President Raul Castro last week.

Chesimard was granted asylum by Fidel Castro after she escaped from the prison where she was serving a sentence for killing a New Jersey state trooper in 1973 during a gunbattle after being stopped on the New Jersey Turnpike.

Asked if returning fugitives was open to negotiation, Cuba's head of North American affairs, Josefina Vidal, told The Associated Press that "every nation has sovereign and legitimate rights to grant political asylum to people it considers to have been persecuted. ... That's a legitimate right."

"We've explained to the U.S. government in the past that there are some people living in Cuba to whom Cuba has legitimately granted political asylum," Vidal said.

"There's no extradition treaty in effect between Cuba and the U.S.," she added.

click the link for the full article

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/12/22/world/americas/ap-cb-cuba-us.html?_r=1

  

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SoWhat
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Mon Dec-22-14 08:00 PM

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28. "see also: France."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

fuck you.

  

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