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Subject: "children exposed to religion have a hard time telling fact from fiction" Previous topic | Next topic
RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
56603 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 02:18 PM

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"children exposed to religion have a hard time telling fact from fiction"


  

          

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/21/children-religion-fact-fiction_n_5607009.html

Young children who are exposed to religion have a hard time differentiating between fact and fiction, according to a new study published in the July issue of Cognitive Science.

Researchers presented 5- and 6-year-old children from both public and parochial schools with three different types of stories -- religious, fantastical and realistic –- in an effort to gauge how well they could identify narratives with impossible elements as fictional.

The study found that, of the 66 participants, children who went to church or were enrolled in a parochial school were significantly less able than secular children to identify supernatural elements, such as talking animals, as fictional.

By relating seemingly impossible religious events achieved through divine intervention (e.g., Jesus transforming water into wine) to fictional narratives, religious children would more heavily rely on religion to justify their false categorizations.

“In both studies, were less likely to judge the characters in the fantastical stories as pretend, and in line with this equivocation, they made more appeals to reality and fewer appeals to impossibility than did secular children,” the study concluded.

Refuting previous hypotheses claiming that children are “born believers,” the authors suggest that “religious teaching, especially exposure to miracle stories, leads children to a more generic receptivity toward the impossible, that is, a more wide-ranging acceptance that the impossible can happen in defiance of ordinary causal relations.”

According to 2013-2014 Gallup data, roughly 83 percent of Americans report a religious affiliation, and an even larger group -- 86 percent -- believe in God.

More than a quarter of Americans, 28 percent, also believe the Bible is the actual word of God and should be taken literally, while another 47 percent say the Bible is the inspired word of God.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
you only need to look at Facebook to know this
Dec 18th 2014
1
First thing I thought of.
Dec 18th 2014
76
PING!
Dec 20th 2014
134
lol.
Dec 20th 2014
135
That sample size plus the age of students=not much of a study.
Dec 18th 2014
2
Ehhhhh, not buyin it.
Dec 18th 2014
3
is it supposed to say hard as opposed to harder?
Dec 18th 2014
4
Probably. It also reduces the chance of your kid becoming a criminal.
Dec 18th 2014
5
exposure to religion?
Dec 18th 2014
6
Church attendance specifically...
Dec 18th 2014
44
lol
Dec 18th 2014
7
I'd love to hear more about this stat
Dec 18th 2014
8
me too.
Dec 18th 2014
36
      We know that studies are irrelevant on this board...
Dec 18th 2014
           i've been spending days studying epidemiology and biostatistics
Dec 18th 2014
49
           I know. No article or study is ever...
Dec 18th 2014
51
           its not that at all. and i dont know why you are being dismissive here
Dec 18th 2014
53
                I don't know why you're being dismissive rather than
Dec 18th 2014
54
                     wait, *you* bring this up, and now *i* have to get this info? wtf
Dec 18th 2014
72
                          Does the original post contain the full data set and sample design?
Dec 18th 2014
74
                               wait, whos asking for datasets?
Dec 18th 2014
78
                                    You're not asking for that.... You've got this guys name
Dec 18th 2014
80
                                         spread the joy
Dec 18th 2014
82
                                         Why are you so defensive? What do you have to be mad about?
Dec 19th 2014
101
           If you're really interested, I found a pretty good paper...
Dec 18th 2014
85
           so there is no study. cool. glad we settled that
Dec 18th 2014
69
                There are 273 studies.
Dec 18th 2014
73
                     where are they? it must be easy to find 1
Dec 18th 2014
79
                     You've got a source at a reputable university to explore if you want.
Dec 18th 2014
83
                          so we should accept mediocrity as long as there's other mediocrity?
Dec 18th 2014
84
                               You're right. Hold on while I go spend my Christmas money
Dec 18th 2014
95
                     actually there is no study
Dec 18th 2014
98
                          A+ exchange
Dec 19th 2014
111
did i miss the study on this link?
Dec 18th 2014
9
http://i.imgur.com/BBCdhHc.jpg
Dec 18th 2014
14
lol
Dec 18th 2014
20
I'm Christian and even I KNOW that ain't true.
Dec 18th 2014
17
how many black men in jail are atheist/agnostic?
Dec 18th 2014
22
but see:
Dec 19th 2014
119
Terrible argument. Plenty of non-harmful practices staunch criminality..
Dec 20th 2014
136
Thanks Obama!!!!!!!!!
Dec 18th 2014
10
Pretty Simple. Teaching kids false narratives dull critical thinking
Dec 18th 2014
11
i felt this way about ppl who teach their kids santa and tooth fairy
Dec 18th 2014
12
      the diff is that one aint condemning you&others to hell
Dec 18th 2014
16
This is some BS.
Dec 18th 2014
13
^^Bible logic^^
Dec 18th 2014
19
^^No logic^^
Dec 18th 2014
26
      You refuted a study with...nothing.
Dec 18th 2014
55
           I'm refuting your ignorant claims.
Dec 19th 2014
109
                No, you aren't
Dec 20th 2014
137
its not bs. Religious folk believe things that are not true
Dec 18th 2014
21
Prove what you just said.
Dec 18th 2014
25
      easy. you know that islam is wrong, correct?
Dec 18th 2014
27
      Try again.
Dec 18th 2014
28
           you & its cool, I know you cant answer it.
Dec 18th 2014
29
                lulz
Dec 18th 2014
32
                Like I thought so. KIM youn'in
Dec 19th 2014
110
                     you are the one scared to answer a question a pastor should answer
Dec 19th 2014
114
      there's nothing like this
Dec 18th 2014
37
I don't know why this is hard to believe...
Dec 18th 2014
30
Prove what you just said.
Dec 19th 2014
105
the same thing can be said about kids that age and fairy tales, or kids ...
Dec 18th 2014
15
not the same, one deals with condemnation, the other gratification
Dec 18th 2014
18
Saying religion only deals with condemnation is
Dec 18th 2014
88
      Its not when it is the root of where your soul goes.
Dec 18th 2014
90
I read my kid fairy tales. I also tell her it's make-believe
Dec 18th 2014
35
Whose responsible for the A Bomb? Science or scientists?
Dec 18th 2014
23
whose responsible for the crusades? religion or the religious?
Dec 18th 2014
24
      the religious
Dec 19th 2014
107
           but they did it in his name, just like the 'writers of the bible' so
Dec 19th 2014
115
We've seen prime examples of this on this very board
Dec 18th 2014
31
Religion can be a beautiful tool which enlightens and guides
Dec 18th 2014
33
atheism is not a set of beliefs-- everything you typed is wrong.
Dec 18th 2014
34
I've had a huge arguments about this with people on this board
Dec 18th 2014
38
it's pretty disgusting.
Dec 18th 2014
40
RE: I've had a huge arguments about this with people on this board
Dec 18th 2014
45
The absence of belief is not a belief.
Dec 18th 2014
48
      the absence of belief in what?
Dec 18th 2014
57
           ... words words words. n/m
Dec 18th 2014
59
well, i believe in the church of atheism
Dec 18th 2014
60
please explain what atheism is to me
Dec 18th 2014
43
      you wouldn't understand.
Dec 19th 2014
104
           RE: that's too bad
Dec 19th 2014
106
what kind of pedestrian reasoning is this?
Dec 18th 2014
39
maybe it's performance art.
Dec 18th 2014
41
perhaps this is what they call abstract thinking? hmm
Dec 18th 2014
50
RE: what kind of pedestrian reasoning is this?
Dec 18th 2014
42
      I don't believe in The Loch Ness Monster
Dec 18th 2014
46
      that comparison is flawed
Dec 18th 2014
56
           as god was invented
Dec 18th 2014
61
           the idea of god would be invented in any part of the universe
Dec 18th 2014
66
                im not sure if this is even true
Dec 18th 2014
81
                RE: semantics
Dec 18th 2014
89
                     erybody thought earth was flat, dont make it some 'innate' knowledge
Dec 18th 2014
92
                          RE: that is different because it could be and was tested
Dec 18th 2014
93
                               nope, i read it
Dec 18th 2014
94
                                    RE: nope, i read it
Dec 18th 2014
96
                                         but you can assign binary to anything & its opposite & argue that
Dec 18th 2014
97
                                              the idea of god is special
Dec 18th 2014
99
                we are still talking about an intangible concept, a notion, likely a myt...
Dec 19th 2014
100
                     RE: No
Dec 19th 2014
102
                          evoked into being by a denial of his existence? what?
Dec 20th 2014
133
           n/m
Dec 18th 2014
62
           Well isn't that convenient ...
Dec 18th 2014
67
                RE: It is more suspicious/interesting than convinient
Dec 18th 2014
68
                     I meant convenient to your argument....
Dec 18th 2014
71
                          RE: have you ever wondered where the universe comes from?
Dec 18th 2014
77
                               Yes I have. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?
Dec 18th 2014
86
                                    so have i
Dec 18th 2014
91
      no, its built on the existence of religious people with god beliefs
Dec 18th 2014
52
           RE: no, its built on the existence of religious people with god beliefs
Dec 18th 2014
65
By the same token I should be enlightened by Greek or Egyptian mythology
Dec 19th 2014
120
      100%
Dec 19th 2014
123
Before: GTFOH After: THEY HAVE ISSUES
Dec 18th 2014
47
kids exposed to atheism have hard time not being annoying d-bags (link)
Dec 18th 2014
58
trueism
Dec 18th 2014
63
The truth makes you a douchebag now?
Dec 18th 2014
64
sure they were raised atheist?
Dec 18th 2014
70
LOL!
Dec 18th 2014
75
we see which household you was raised in
Dec 18th 2014
87
a magazine called "Cognitive Reasoning" is dissing religion
Dec 19th 2014
103
lol @ "magazine" like its on the shelf next to Maxim
Dec 19th 2014
112
Children exposed to *DOGMA* at an early age have a hard time telling
Dec 19th 2014
108
article has a cpl inaccuracies regarding article publication
Dec 19th 2014
113
Im an atheiest who was exposed to religion - dont find that at all
Dec 19th 2014
116
same here.
Dec 19th 2014
118
Atheist are 0.07% percent of the prison population
Dec 19th 2014
117
cause people never find religion in prison...
Dec 19th 2014
121
      Jail population reflects the general population
Dec 19th 2014
122
      Maybe cause majority of the people in the country are believers
Dec 19th 2014
125
      but you be at drake cole concerts
Dec 19th 2014
124
           Who is Drake Cole?
Dec 19th 2014
127
                you didnt say nothin to dispute moron
Dec 20th 2014
128
                     do better.
Dec 20th 2014
129
                          a grown man
Dec 20th 2014
131
and kids who believe in Santa and the tooth fairy dont?
Dec 19th 2014
126
why do yall want lil kids to become actuaries or whatever?
Dec 20th 2014
130
Agreed. n/m
Dec 20th 2014
132
Yeah because why should children enjoy childhood.
Dec 20th 2014
138
religion is a necessary component of that?
Dec 20th 2014
139
      My point is that this is a stupid exercise.
Dec 20th 2014
140
           trying to understand human psychology is a stupid exercise?
Dec 22nd 2014
141

Rjcc
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Thu Dec-18-14 02:19 PM

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1. "you only need to look at Facebook to know this"
In response to Reply # 0


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Binladen
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:27 PM

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76. "First thing I thought of. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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Allah
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Sat Dec-20-14 10:16 AM

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134. "PING!"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

_______________________
"Arm Leg Leg Arm Hate." c/o desus
_______________________
Divine Ruler
http://www.facebook.com/divineruler
__gigs__
__stuff__

  

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R A i n
Member since Dec 11th 2003
51902 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 10:20 AM

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135. "lol."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

...
we understand you can easily come back and we're not impressed. how about getting a life first. okpdan

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42005 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 02:46 PM

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2. "That sample size plus the age of students=not much of a study. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not to say that the general results wouldn’t hold because I've seen it first hand. Still, a better study would include a much larger sample size (a thousand, let’s say) and older students, I’d say from 12-14. Truth be told, I’d say you need to look at 22 year olds to really get a firm grasp on this because many kids rethink shit in a big way by the time they’ve had a few years in college and the world at large.As it stands that study seems incredibly biased from the start.

Further, this really has nothing to do with religion at 5-6. It’s one hundred percent about whatever their parents have taught them since birth, because they really haven’t established their own world view at that point. I’m sure the next wave of neo-nazi skinheads consists of a bunch of Arian 5 year olds who refer to everyone who isn’t white as mud people. There’s considerably less outside influence on a child that age than, say, a 13 year old, and they’re much more whatever their parents have taught them to be than they will be later in life
.
That said, I’m not really a fan of indoctrinating kids into religion. My daughter’s day care is becoming something of a Sunday school to my observation, I’m concerned about this. Iit’s a point of contention with my wife as she doesn’t see the problem, plus it’s a relative of hers. I’m definitely deviating further and further from my old faith, even if remnants of it remain with me. In the end I don’t really care to indoctrinate my daughter and would rather see her arrive at her own conclusions later in life.

She’s extremely intelligent and soaks up information like a sponge, and for now I’m just going with it in order to keep the peace, as I see no inherent harm in it even if I don't like it. As she grows older I’ll be exposing her to all manner of information, hoping to help her grasp what is theory, what is fact, and what is fiction.

  

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KiloMcG
Member since Jan 01st 2008
27469 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 02:54 PM

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3. "Ehhhhh, not buyin it. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 02:57 PM

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4. "is it supposed to say hard as opposed to harder?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cuz a lot of people have trouble with that

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Thu Dec-18-14 03:11 PM

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5. "Probably. It also reduces the chance of your kid becoming a criminal."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Especially if they're black. We don't want to talk about this though.

With everything you win some and you lose some.

  

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akon
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Thu Dec-18-14 03:16 PM

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6. "exposure to religion?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>Especially if they're black. We don't want to talk about
>this though.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ndibs
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Thu Dec-18-14 06:55 PM

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44. "Church attendance specifically..."
In response to Reply # 6


          

>>Especially if they're black. We don't want to talk about
>>this though.
>
>

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15290 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 03:24 PM

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7. "lol"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Rjcc
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8. "I'd love to hear more about this stat"
In response to Reply # 5


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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akon
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Thu Dec-18-14 06:38 PM

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36. "me too. "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ndibs
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Thu Dec-18-14 06:52 PM

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"We know that studies are irrelevant on this board..."
Thu Dec-18-14 06:53 PM by ndibs

          

If okps don't like te study result, the science is no good... But here you go.

http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=837

Click here to advertise on CatholicCulture.org
Give me that Old Time Religion…to reduce crime
By Dr. Jeff Mirus (bio - articles - email) | Jul 27, 2011
3 0 0 Google +0 Delicious0


Free eBook: Essays in Apologetics, Vol. II
Sociologist Byron Johnson has marshaled conclusive evidence that Church attendance is associated with reduced crime and delinquency. Johnson, who is Distinguished Professor of the Social Sciences at Baylor University, summarized his findings in an article entitled “The Religious Antidote” (First Things, August/September 2011).

Byron has both conducted studies himself and reviewed the studies of others. An early study (1986) by Richard Freeman examined housing projects in several major cities to determine factors that helped kids stay out of trouble. Religious faith was a key factor. Byron, working with several colleagues, replicated Freeman’s study in the late 1990’s, with the same result: The frequency of attending religious services was inversely related to the likelihood of young, poor, black males selling illegal drugs or otherwise breaking the law. The differences in getting into legal trouble between those who attended church and those who did not were on the order of 40 to 60 percent.

In 2000, Byron reviewed forty studies on the relationship between religion and delinquency, with similar results. The same was true of a review of sixty studies by Colin Baier and Bradley Wright in 2001, which further demonstrated that the inverse relationship between church attendance and delinquent behavior increased as studies grew larger and more comprehensive.

Very recently, Byron completed the most exhaustive systematic review to date, analyzing 273 studies published between 1944 and 2010 in a variety of fields. He found that 90% of the studies “report an inverse or beneficial relationship between religion and some measure of crime or delinquency.” Only 9 percent found no association, and only two studies (less than 1%) found the opposite relationship.

Professor Byron began his article by noting that if the studies generally showed the opposite—that religion or church-going contributed to crime and delinquency—the press would be all over the story, and a Federal commission would doubtless be established to make sure Americans were officially notified that religious practice is deleterious to your social health.

  

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akon
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:06 PM

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49. "i've been spending days studying epidemiology and biostatistics"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so i dont know about that whole, okps dont like... ish


but... this is not study results (i even went to the website)
this is a description of... i dont know.. things done and said
but there are no numbers, no description of sample design, no description of analysis,
even if it was a systematic review, there is nothing on here to go by
except what this dude byron is saying and hes not saying anything (where.is.the.data?)

>If okps don't like te study result, the science is no good...
>But here you go.
>
>http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=837
>
>Click here to advertise on CatholicCulture.org
>Give me that Old Time Religion…to reduce crime
>By Dr. Jeff Mirus (bio - articles - email) | Jul 27, 2011
> 3 0 0 Google +0 Delicious0
>
>
>Free eBook: Essays in Apologetics, Vol. II
>Sociologist Byron Johnson has marshaled conclusive evidence
>that Church attendance is associated with reduced crime and
>delinquency. Johnson, who is Distinguished Professor of the
>Social Sciences at Baylor University, summarized his findings
>in an article entitled “The Religious Antidote” (First
>Things, August/September 2011).
>
>Byron has both conducted studies himself and reviewed the
>studies of others. An early study (1986) by Richard Freeman
>examined housing projects in several major cities to determine
>factors that helped kids stay out of trouble. Religious faith
>was a key factor. Byron, working with several colleagues,
>replicated Freeman’s study in the late 1990’s, with the
>same result: The frequency of attending religious services was
>inversely related to the likelihood of young, poor, black
>males selling illegal drugs or otherwise breaking the law. The
>differences in getting into legal trouble between those who
>attended church and those who did not were on the order of 40
>to 60 percent.
>
>In 2000, Byron reviewed forty studies on the relationship
>between religion and delinquency, with similar results. The
>same was true of a review of sixty studies by Colin Baier and
>Bradley Wright in 2001, which further demonstrated that the
>inverse relationship between church attendance and delinquent
>behavior increased as studies grew larger and more
>comprehensive.
>
>Very recently, Byron completed the most exhaustive systematic
>review to date, analyzing 273 studies published between 1944
>and 2010 in a variety of fields. He found that 90% of the
>studies “report an inverse or beneficial relationship
>between religion and some measure of crime or delinquency.”
>Only 9 percent found no association, and only two studies
>(less than 1%) found the opposite relationship.
>
>Professor Byron began his article by noting that if the
>studies generally showed the opposite—that religion or
>church-going contributed to crime and delinquency—the press
>would be all over the story, and a Federal commission would
>doubtless be established to make sure Americans were
>officially notified that religious practice is deleterious to
>your social health.
>

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:09 PM

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51. "I know. No article or study is ever..."
In response to Reply # 49
Thu Dec-18-14 07:22 PM by ndibs

          

Good enough. If you're a scientists and want actual scholarly data why don't you contact the guy. Are you seriously going to tell me you don't know how to do that or you expect thousands of data points in an article that's meant for mass consumption and not the scientific community. Okps kill me. Visit the Baylor website, find the guys email and ask if you want heavy duty data or stop faking like you're really trying to learn something.

  

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akon
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:17 PM

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53. "its not that at all. and i dont know why you are being dismissive here"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>Good enough.

i dont know what a 'good enough' metric is
there are minimum criteria for a study to be considered valid
you cant just say x causes y just because - which is what these folks is doing
thats problematic

there are also problems with the study originally posted

association is not causation

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:20 PM

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54. "I don't know why you're being dismissive rather than "
In response to Reply # 53


          

Going out and getting all that data and the stats you want to see.

  

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akon
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26984 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 08:04 PM

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72. "wait, *you* bring this up, and now *i* have to get this info? wtf"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

>Going out and getting all that data and the stats you want to
>see.


is that a fancy of way of saying you got nothing?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:14 PM

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74. "Does the original post contain the full data set and sample design? "
In response to Reply # 72
Thu Dec-18-14 08:17 PM by ndibs

          

Nope. That's okay though because okp likes that study.

The way study results are described in mainstream articles are fine until you come across a study you don't like.

And yes if you want a scientific scholarly article and a bunch of data you know how to find it.

But it's stupidity to act like I should respond to an article like the original post with data from 273 studies or probably 3000 pages of data and stats for you to look over.

  

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akon
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:28 PM

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78. "wait, whos asking for datasets?"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

im asking for an actual study
something with actual data (and not naked %)
its one of the things you do when you have a study- especially one that shows 'causation'
description of sample, description of methods, results (more often than not in a summary table that includes sample size)
nobody ever publishes their datasets

>Nope. That's okay though because okp likes that study.

lol. i also said there are issues with that article. and that article is not a study report
its huffpo.
id call it an oped piece, if anything.

>The way study results are described in mainstream articles are
>fine until you come across a study you don't like.

what bullshit is this?

>And yes if you want a scientific scholarly article and a bunch
>of data you know how to find it.
>
>But it's stupidity to act like I should respond to an article
>like the original post with data from 273 studies or probably
>3000 pages of data and stats for you to look over.

stupidity?
you sure you want to go there?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:36 PM

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80. "You're not asking for that.... You've got this guys name "
In response to Reply # 78


          

And university and you are not asking for any of it, because you don't want it. Stop being intellectually dishonest pretending you're curious or want to see it if you don't. And yes it's stupid to go on a tangent about causation when the article clearly uses the word association.

  

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akon
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82. "spread the joy "
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

"Dear reader: If you found the information on this page helpful in your pursuit of a better Catholic life, please support our work with a donation. Your donation will help us reach seven million Truth-seeking readers worldwide this year. Thank you!"

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
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Fri Dec-19-14 09:32 AM

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101. "Why are you so defensive? What do you have to be mad about? "
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

You're the one who provided an article when ppl asked for "stats" that prove this assertion is true. If you are the one saying yes this hypothesis is true, and stats show it, it's on YOU to provide the links to the studies and the stats. not an article that says "this man read a bunch of studies and found 90% of them said this so that must be true." The article doesn't have any studies listed, no links to the anything, no info period and when ppl say this isn't correct, you get mad. HOW SWAY?

don't jump into shit if you not ready to defend the bullshit you gonna post.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:47 PM

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85. "If you're really interested, I found a pretty good paper..."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

Abstract: http://works.bepress.com/psheaton/1/
Paper: https://pdf.yt/d/THWiTlgHIKcbfZwg

I'm an economist, so I don't trust the empirical methods of sociology. While I was reading the post, I was instantly skeptical of the findings because the degree of religiosity in the community could be itself related to the level of crime.

Simple regressions don't handle that kind of simultaneous relationship no matter how many control variables you throw in. This paper tries to take care of that problem and finds no relationship between religion and crime.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Rjcc
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69. "so there is no study. cool. glad we settled that"
In response to Reply # 0


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:08 PM

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73. "There are 273 studies. "
In response to Reply # 69


          

>
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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akon
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79. "where are they? it must be easy to find 1"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

the website you posted only says there are numerous studies

anyway, this is silly.

its one of those, i dont really have anything to stand by
so instead i will proceed to insult you.

all the best with that

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:39 PM

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83. "You've got a source at a reputable university to explore if you want. "
In response to Reply # 79


          

To dig into the data. lol at pretending the article I posted is any better or worse than the original article it responded to.

  

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akon
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:41 PM

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84. "so we should accept mediocrity as long as there's other mediocrity?"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>lol at pretending the article I posted
>is any better or worse than the original article it responded
>to.


i get it now.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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95. "You're right. Hold on while I go spend my Christmas money"
In response to Reply # 84


          

On subscriptions to scholarly journals so I can post some data for you or study designs.

I'll be right back...

I've seen the light and now realize that would be an appropriate response to a huff po article on a rap music bands website.

  

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Rjcc
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98. "actually there is no study"
In response to Reply # 73


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Fri Dec-19-14 04:21 PM

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111. "A+ exchange"
In response to Reply # 98


          

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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9. "did i miss the study on this link?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
3696 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 04:51 PM

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14. "http://i.imgur.com/BBCdhHc.jpg"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/BBCdhHc.jpg

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
13957 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:01 PM

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20. "lol"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
1373 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 04:58 PM

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17. "I'm Christian and even I KNOW that ain't true. "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:03 PM

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22. "how many black men in jail are atheist/agnostic?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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119. "but see:"
In response to Reply # 5
Fri Dec-19-14 08:25 PM by SoWhat

  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=12679713&mesg_id=12681136&page=

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/16/what-percentage-of-prisoners-are-atheists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/

^ most prisoners are religious. the overwhelming majority reported believing in one of the major religions. LOL

fuck you.

  

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Triptych
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136. "Terrible argument. Plenty of non-harmful practices staunch criminality.."
In response to Reply # 5
Sat Dec-20-14 10:50 AM by Triptych

  

          

You don't have to take the good with the bad. If you're defending religion with a pro/con argument, you must also assert that no combination of activities other than church offers the same benefits at less cost. It's a very hard argument to make when comparing to things like transcendental meditation.

It is important to realize that religious people are always at a disadvantage in serious arguments about the economics of it all; none of their core ideas can really be tested.

____________________________

http://twitter.com/irefox
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

  

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stead21
Member since Oct 21st 2004
954 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 04:46 PM

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10. "Thanks Obama!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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11. "Pretty Simple. Teaching kids false narratives dull critical thinking"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for the folks not buying it, I feel it, no one wants to believe they're hindering they're children with a doctrine they grew up with themselves, but it has to be some point where the childs' welfare trumps the caretakers take on stories/myths


meanwhile, folks are foregoing teaching their children religion & showing them how the world really works, while black/brown children have their childhood filled with teachings that only divide


i mean being taught an epic story that is ultimately not true can be terrible for a child. And most religions do not have the built in safety valve of questioning itself, rather it demands the opposite

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 04:50 PM

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12. "i felt this way about ppl who teach their kids santa and tooth fairy"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

are real
setting your kids back for the sake of acceptance
bad parenting
religion applies too but neither me or any of my friends are religious so don't really apply

~~~~~~

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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16. "the diff is that one aint condemning you&others to hell"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

that speaks fear into the core of an adult, even moreso a child



the tooth fairy and santa doesnt presnet this problem


aslo, people arent killing in the name of the tooth fairy and santa except during black friday and christmas eve

  

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Case_One
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13. "This is some BS. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Drops mic and preacher towel -- walks off the stage.


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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bignick
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19. "^^Bible logic^^"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

  

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Case_One
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26. "^^No logic^^"
In response to Reply # 19


          


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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bignick
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55. "You refuted a study with...nothing. "
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

Don't you have some fairy tales to read?

  

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Case_One
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109. "I'm refuting your ignorant claims. "
In response to Reply # 55


          


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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bignick
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137. "No, you aren't"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

But you have lots of experience believing things that aren't true.

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:02 PM

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21. "its not bs. Religious folk believe things that are not true"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

due to lack of critical thinking. A child that was reared outside of religion would have an easier time decipher fact from fiction than someone reared in religion


the first child can learn by proof while the latter has to take a story and imagine it to be proof. that is problematic for a child, much less an adult

  

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Case_One
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25. "Prove what you just said. "
In response to Reply # 21


          

>due to lack of critical thinking. A child that was reared
>outside of religion would have an easier time decipher fact
>from fiction than someone reared in religion
>
>
>the first child can learn by proof while the latter has to
>take a story and imagine it to be proof. that is problematic
>for a child, much less an adult



Provide the proof without any margin of error.


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:18 PM

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27. "easy. you know that islam is wrong, correct?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

and a child who grew up in islam will most likely retain those views.

now


lets say you are given the opportunity teach him that something in the koran is impossible, like having muhammad remember the whole koran.


He believes this tale, but you know it to be false. Why cant he see this to be untrue?


Is it his faith? Or his inability to believe you are telling him the truth?

  

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Case_One
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28. "Try again."
In response to Reply # 27


          


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:23 PM

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29. "you & its cool, I know you cant answer it."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

i didnt expect you to tackle that.

  

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luminous
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Thu Dec-18-14 06:07 PM

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32. "lulz"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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Case_One
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110. "Like I thought so. KIM youn'in"
In response to Reply # 29


          


.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Fri Dec-19-14 06:10 PM

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114. "you are the one scared to answer a question a pastor should answer"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

instead you do the opposite of what jesus said



i know you feel good about that

  

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akon
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37. "there's nothing like this "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


>Provide the proof without any margin of error.

all proof comes with a margin of error

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15290 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:37 PM

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30. "I don't know why this is hard to believe..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

It doesn't even need to be related to religion. If a bunch of seemingly impossible events are said to be true, it expands the limits of what a kid believes is possible.

If you have a kid believe Charlotte's Web is a true story, then when someone tells them a horse is talking they are more likely to believe it. Even though all of their life experiences thus far tell them it can't be true.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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RS
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105. "Prove what you just said. "
In response to Reply # 13


          

Provide evidence with no margin of error.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15829 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 04:52 PM

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15. "the same thing can be said about kids that age and fairy tales, or kids ..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

or hell, adults and most domestic network news broadcasts

And I ain't religious at all, but this rush to discredit/dismiss humanity's interest in the fantastic is pretty wrongheaded, IMO

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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18. "not the same, one deals with condemnation, the other gratification"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

and critical thinking is dimmed, proven by the many adults that take the bible/koran literally tho literal translations have been discarded long ago

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:59 PM

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88. "Saying religion only deals with condemnation is"
In response to Reply # 18


          

A pretty big oversimplification, lol. I don't think self-loathing is that big of a part of people's pull towards the divine.

In any event tho', all these stories (legends, myths, epics, sagas, religious tales) all serve a purpose in the human experience and always will.

And that's a beautiful thing IMO

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
2533 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 09:05 PM

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90. "Its not when it is the root of where your soul goes."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

As a matter of fact, the after life is what draws the fear, also known as 'Love for God'



fact of the matter is that people dont really love god, they just dont want to burn in hell.


but given the narrative that is taught from childhood, they call on faith when real answers cannot be given. Its how the police mentally dance around with their acts of brutality and justifying it with the law

  

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John Forte
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35. "I read my kid fairy tales. I also tell her it's make-believe"
In response to Reply # 15


          

but we also do Santa, so people in glass houses...

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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23. "Whose responsible for the A Bomb? Science or scientists?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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zaire
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24. "whose responsible for the crusades? religion or the religious?"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

  

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Atillah Moor
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107. "the religious "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

who were obviously doing it very wrong (if at all). I don't recall Jesus ever saying anything close to "slaughter scores of men, women, and children for my name's sake".

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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zaire
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115. "but they did it in his name, just like the 'writers of the bible' so"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

yeah you played yourself.


no worries tho, no one expects you to come up with anything relevant in these types of discussions. we expect it so *yeezy shrug*

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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31. "We've seen prime examples of this on this very board"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

time and time again.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Thu Dec-18-14 06:21 PM

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33. "Religion can be a beautiful tool which enlightens and guides"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I find Atheism to be a ironic and interesting set of beliefs.

Even atheists place value on the idea of god, simply by rejecting it.

You cannot be an atheist without god. God is essential to the belief structure. If Atheism was a mathematical formula, god would represent 0, or X. Still part of the equation.

It is best not to take any labels at all.

However, my point is, that religion as given to us by the indigenous people, as well as key figure heads such as Mohammad and Christ was a good thing. It is juts as good / evil / corrupting as finance, or politics. The tool is not the problem, it is rather what man has done with these tools.

Religion was founded on the laws observed in nature. When man over fished the rivers, he hurt the eco system and the village down the river, and thus he learned to have ethics, morals, and standards which promote the greatest good. That is the foundation of all religion. It was man's hope to commune with nature.

The earliest symbols of god/religion was a stone, then animal spirits (totem poles), and finally the stone, eventually took the shape of a man, and this is exactly where man lost his way. Once god took human form, we began to suffer from a hubris that still controls us. This is why people believe they can kill in the name of god.

Today's religions are useless. They offer nothing except fear, guilt, and the inability to experience and experiment with life. That being said, I have met alternative christians and muslims which have a far more advanced look on divinity than their mainstream counterparts.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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34. "atheism is not a set of beliefs-- everything you typed is wrong. "
In response to Reply # 33
Thu Dec-18-14 06:33 PM by Joe Corn Mo

  

          

where did you get these ideas about atheism from?
why do you state them as if they were true?


  

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John Forte
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38. "I've had a huge arguments about this with people on this board"
In response to Reply # 34


          

talking about what atheists believe. I even had one self-proclaimed atheist tell me that there was, in fact an atheist belief system.

Atheists simply do not believe in God.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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40. "it's pretty disgusting. "
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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45. "RE: I've had a huge arguments about this with people on this board"
In response to Reply # 38


          


>
>Atheists simply do not believe in God.


That right there is ironic of you to say, because you cannot be an Atheist without calling god into question. Not believing or believing in something doesn't make any less real as a concept. Simply by making that statement you evoke it's "being".

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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48. "The absence of belief is not a belief. "
In response to Reply # 45
Thu Dec-18-14 07:07 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

It's a very simple concept.

The absence of air is not air.
Your world is so god centric that everything is measured by that...
It doesn't mean everyone else is that way.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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57. "the absence of belief in what?"
In response to Reply # 48
Thu Dec-18-14 07:23 PM by initiationofplato

          

are you suggesting that you do not have any beliefs at all? in anything?

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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59. "... words words words. n/m"
In response to Reply # 57
Thu Dec-18-14 07:26 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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akon
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60. "well, i believe in the church of atheism"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

>talking about what atheists believe. I even had one
>self-proclaimed atheist tell me that there was, in fact an
>atheist belief system.

my faith entails that i spread the system of disbelief.


*actually im more of an apatheist*

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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43. "please explain what atheism is to me"
In response to Reply # 34


          

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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104. "you wouldn't understand. "
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

  

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initiationofplato
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106. "RE: that's too bad"
In response to Reply # 104


          

well, much respect to you.

  

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akon
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39. "what kind of pedestrian reasoning is this?"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>I find Atheism to be a ironic and interesting set of beliefs.
>Even atheists place value on the idea of god, simply by
>rejecting it.
>You cannot be an atheist without god. God is essential to the
>belief structure. If Atheism was a mathematical formula, god
>would represent 0, or X. Still part of the equation.
>It is best not to take any labels at all.


none of this really makes sense.
even when applying mathematical rules
zero represents something??

whoa

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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41. "maybe it's performance art. "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

  

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akon
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50. "perhaps this is what they call abstract thinking? hmm"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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42. "RE: what kind of pedestrian reasoning is this?"
In response to Reply # 39
Thu Dec-18-14 06:53 PM by initiationofplato

          

It is actually an ironic joke. What constitutes an atheist? Someone that doesn't believe in god. How will most atheists express their views? "I don't believe in god."

In every case, you cannot be an atheist without bringing god into the equation. It's more of a linguistic irony than anything else and I see I have failed to express it correctly using 0 and X. The fact that 0 doesn't represent anything or does not exist is precisely the point, as Atheists believe god does not exist. However, the paradigm of atheism is built on "god" just as much as zero performs an integral duty in mathematics.

  

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John Forte
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46. "I don't believe in The Loch Ness Monster"
In response to Reply # 42


          

I can not believe in the Loch Ness Monster without bring it into the equation. It's the believers who introduce it.

  

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initiationofplato
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:22 PM

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56. "that comparison is flawed"
In response to Reply # 46


          

the loch ness monster would never have come into question unless it was invented, that is 100% true, but, god would have come into question no matter what in every part of the planet or universe where there are thinking beings

as thinking beings we always seek the root of things. you and everyone you know has had an independent thought along the lines of "where am i, where is the universe from, how was it created?"

it is the greatest mystery which man has. as soon as man thought to question where the snow comes from, or when children wanted to know where babies come from, they were on an inevitable path to the idea of god. we cannot juxtapose god with any fictitious fairy tale character because we would have never arrived at those characters through the expression of our own humanity, which is to question, but we found the idea of god because we innately questioned our own existence.

  

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akon
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61. "as god was invented"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>the loch ness monster would never have come into question
>unless it was invented,

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:34 PM

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66. "the idea of god would be invented in any part of the universe"
In response to Reply # 61


          

where there are thinking beings. meditate on that a minute. the loch ness monster would not.

it is not the same thing.

  

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akon
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81. "im not sure if this is even true"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

i think its an assumption based on the pervasiveness of xtianity (and its offshoots - and i include islam in this)

i think what is more pervase is a concept of an afterlife
which does not rely on the premise of there being a god
just a place where your dead kin can go hang out and chill and watch out for your best interests
(and when you all forget about them they become your ancestors)

the whole concept of a supreme being is a recently invented concept.

and the question about why humans have an innate desire to understand things?
its called intellect
its what separates us from animals (minimally, i should add)
thus we can thankgod for evolution



.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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initiationofplato
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:03 PM

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89. "RE: semantics"
In response to Reply # 81
Thu Dec-18-14 09:04 PM by initiationofplato

          

the idea of a singular supreme being depends on your interpretation of "recent". are thousands of years recent? look into Amun-Ra from Egypt, Zeus from Greece, Quetzalcoatl from the Mayans, Brahma, Abraham, etc.

there is only one small group of indigenous people on the planet that has no creation myth feauturing a creator. in contrast and clearly different, the loch ness monster comes from an isolated experience. the idea of god is anything but isolated.

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:09 PM

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92. "erybody thought earth was flat, dont make it some 'innate' knowledge"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

i'd like to think that if our race lives long enough, we will grow through this immaturity and get to the real shit


but thats just real faith.


and the universe does not require god just because its a word, thats ridiculous.

  

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initiationofplato
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:18 PM

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93. "RE: that is different because it could be and was tested"
In response to Reply # 92


          

in contrast, we have not proven whether or not god exists, and we are all still talking and thinking about it.

>and the universe does not require god just because its a word,
>thats ridiculous.

i think you skimmed over what i wrote because that's not what i said.

  

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zaire
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94. "nope, i read it"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

>in contrast, we have not proven whether or not god exists,
>and we are all still talking and thinking about it.


scientist and atheists are thinking about when some alleged proof is available, it will be looked at.. You are speaking in a round about way on why you yourself believe in a god of some sort.

>
>>and the universe does not require god just because its a
>word,
>>thats ridiculous.
>
>i think you skimmed over what i wrote because that's not what
>i said.

this is what you are saying:
That right there is ironic of you to say, because you cannot be an Atheist without calling god into question. Not believing or believing in something doesn't make any less real as a concept. Simply by making that statement you evoke it's "being".

^^^just because someone says they dont believe in (insert noun of any sort), doesnt mean that noun is recognized as real.

  

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initiationofplato
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:32 PM

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96. "RE: nope, i read it"
In response to Reply # 94


          

>>in contrast, we have not proven whether or not god exists,
>>and we are all still talking and thinking about it.
>
>
>scientist and atheists are thinking about when some alleged
>proof is available, it will be looked at.. You are speaking in
>a round about way on why you yourself believe in a god of some
>sort.
>

where did I state that I do or do not believe in a god?

>>
>>>and the universe does not require god just because its a
>>word,
>>>thats ridiculous.
>>
>>i think you skimmed over what i wrote because that's not
>what
>>i said.
>
>this is what you are saying:
>That right there is ironic of you to say, because you cannot
>be an Atheist without calling god into question. Not believing
>or believing in something doesn't make any less real as a
>concept. Simply by making that statement you evoke it's
>"being".
>
>^^^just because someone says they dont believe in (insert noun
>of any sort), doesnt mean that noun is recognized as real.

Once again, that is not what I said. I am not questioning the existence of, or whether or not god is real. I am stating that one cannot be an atheist without god, just as much as one cannot be a christian without god. neither can prove god does or does not exist, so the objective result for both is inconclusive. However, neither can exist without god which they share as the foundation of their belief structure, not just as a word, but as a governing concept, an emotion, expression, feeling, however you define the need to understand where we all came from.

The simplest way I can say it is that 0 represents nothing in mathematics but it is integral to it. god represents nothing in atheism but is integral to it. finally, god is integral to being religious. ironically, noone can come up with an objective answer that is definite. i think it's all pretty ironic and that's all i'm saying.

  

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zaire
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97. "but you can assign binary to anything & its opposite & argue that"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

it doesnt resolve anything

  

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initiationofplato
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:57 PM

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99. "the idea of god is special"
In response to Reply # 97


          

go to any part of the planet and you will find an ancient creation myth, spanning thousands upon thousands of years. 15,000 to 30,000 years at least. the idea of God is not isolated to person, race, nationality, location, or era. the thirst to know is perhaps the only real thing we have in common, ironic in every imaginable way there is.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Dec-19-14 01:52 AM

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100. "we are still talking about an intangible concept, a notion, likely a myt..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

and you are talking about the absence of belief constituting belief, essentially.

now you're moving the goalposts to make disbelief in god some sort of unique exception. in other words this whole "mathematical expression" of disbelief as belief only applies in one (or at least very, very few) contexts.

what you are saying makes no sense.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Fri Dec-19-14 09:46 AM

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102. "RE: No"
In response to Reply # 100


          

>and you are talking about the absence of belief constituting
>belief, essentially.

That is not at all what I am suggesting. I am merely pointing out the irony in the specificity of taking "Atheist" as a label which defines ones set of beliefs. One cannot be an Atheist without evoking god into being, contextual or real is irrelevant, as neither an Atheist nor a Christian can prove or disprove god's existence.

>
>now you're moving the goalposts to make disbelief in god some
>sort of unique exception. in other words this whole
>"mathematical expression" of disbelief as belief only applies
>in one (or at least very, very few) contexts.
>


No. I am suggesting that the idea of god is unique. It is an idea that does not require verification and cannot be tested, thus the true existence of god is unknown to either an Atheist or a Christian. Christian's choose to believe in *god*, Atheists choose not to believe in *god*, in both cases god has been evoked into being. I am also saying that it an idea that was inevitable for man to encounter and to question given our nature. Please name any other "myth" that is like the idea of god.


  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sat Dec-20-14 09:48 AM

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133. "evoked into being by a denial of his existence? what?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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62. "n/m"
In response to Reply # 56
Thu Dec-18-14 07:28 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:39 PM

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67. "Well isn't that convenient ..."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>
> but, god would have
>come into question no matter what in every part of the planet
>or universe where there are thinking beings
>



_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:48 PM

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68. "RE: It is more suspicious/interesting than convinient"
In response to Reply # 67


          

i often wonder why we have the innate need to know. where does that need come from? why does man tirelessly search for answers? why are we not content with not knowing?

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:59 PM

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71. "I meant convenient to your argument...."
In response to Reply # 68
Thu Dec-18-14 08:00 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

  

          

How you can just say, "Oh that's different".
It's not different at all. You just made up a silly condition to try to refute a perfectly acceptable point

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:27 PM

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77. "RE: have you ever wondered where the universe comes from?"
In response to Reply # 71


          

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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86. "Yes I have. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Thu Dec-18-14 09:08 PM

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91. "so have i"
In response to Reply # 86


          

I further explained the example I used in post 81

  

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akon
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:13 PM

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52. "no, its built on the existence of religious people with god beliefs"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

if religion did not exist (dear god this would be nirvana)
there would be no need to dispute it

so no. atheism is not built on a premise that god exists
atheism is a refutation of an existing belief system
its built on a premise that 'there are people who believe god exists'
and there are those who know better

but you are right. its better to be apatheist

>In every case, you cannot be an atheist without bringing god
>into the equation.

would i dont believe in higher beings make this easier?
cause i really dont get this argument.
it sounds like semantics

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:33 PM

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65. "RE: no, its built on the existence of religious people with god beliefs"
In response to Reply # 52


          

>if religion did not exist (dear god this would be nirvana)
>there would be no need to dispute it

religion was inevitable. i have studied this in great depth and it essentially comes from nature. for one, man wanted to know where the fish that gave him life came from, and they wanted to commune with that life force. that is the root origin of religion. is there anything wrong with that you think? to offer gratitude to the life force that sustains your people? where is the harm?

the idea of nirvana came from the very same quest to commune with the life force and to free oneself from suffering/dispute. there would be no nirvana if there wasn't anything to dispute. they are inseparable, what remains is your choice to resonate with one or the other.

>
>so no. atheism is not built on a premise that god exists
>atheism is a refutation of an existing belief system
>its built on a premise that 'there are people who believe god
>exists'
>and there are those who know better


that's not what i said: i said that 0 is integral to mathematics even though it represents nothing. "god" is integral to the idea of atheism.


>
>but you are right. its better to be apatheist
>
>>In every case, you cannot be an atheist without bringing god
>>into the equation.
>
>would i dont believe in higher beings make this easier?
>cause i really dont get this argument.
>it sounds like semantics
>

the safest and least committing answer is "i don't know". i don't know why people have to choose one or the other when a simple i don't know free's you from the need to defend your stance.

people will defend whatever banner they decide to represent, even when its supposedly a banner that aims to lessen the dispute. have you ever seen a calm peaceful conversation between a christian and an atheist? what exactly separates one from the other when you glance at them from a distance?

  

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Tw3nty
Member since Jan 02nd 2007
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120. "By the same token I should be enlightened by Greek or Egyptian mythology"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  

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initiationofplato
Member since Nov 06th 2013
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123. "100%"
In response to Reply # 120


          

Both mythologies are rich with knowledge that shines a light on the structure and fabric of our society. More than that, it shines light on words we use without knowing their true meanings.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:02 PM

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47. "Before: GTFOH After: THEY HAVE ISSUES"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I get this logic 100 percent. This is true depending on the religion and where they grew up.

  

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SeV
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58. "kids exposed to atheism have hard time not being annoying d-bags (link)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12679713&mesg_id=12679713&page=#12680096


but im banned tho.
____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

  

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akon
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63. "trueism"
In response to Reply # 58
Thu Dec-18-14 07:29 PM by akon

  

          

>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12679713&mesg_id=12679713&page=#12680096

im not a kid, though

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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bignick
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:32 PM

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64. "The truth makes you a douchebag now? "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

  

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Rjcc
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70. "sure they were raised atheist?"
In response to Reply # 58


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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SoWhat
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75. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

there is no God.

fuck you.

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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87. "we see which household you was raised in"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

lol

  

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Calico
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103. "a magazine called "Cognitive Reasoning" is dissing religion"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...i'm really surprised....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Fri Dec-19-14 05:41 PM

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112. "lol @ "magazine" like its on the shelf next to Maxim"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Fri Dec-19-14 04:11 PM

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108. "Children exposed to *DOGMA* at an early age have a hard time telling"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fact from fiction

We have to distinguish between religion vs dogma


>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/21/children-religion-fact-fiction_n_5607009.html
>
>Young children who are exposed to religion have a hard time
>differentiating between fact and fiction, according to a new
>study published in the July issue of Cognitive Science.
>
>Researchers presented 5- and 6-year-old children from both
>public and parochial schools with three different types of
>stories -- religious, fantastical and realistic –- in an
>effort to gauge how well they could identify narratives with
>impossible elements as fictional.
>
>The study found that, of the 66 participants, children who
>went to church or were enrolled in a parochial school were
>significantly less able than secular children to identify
>supernatural elements, such as talking animals, as fictional.
>
>By relating seemingly impossible religious events achieved
>through divine intervention (e.g., Jesus transforming water
>into wine) to fictional narratives, religious children would
>more heavily rely on religion to justify their false
>categorizations.
>
>“In both studies, were less
>likely to judge the characters in the fantastical stories as
>pretend, and in line with this equivocation, they made more
>appeals to reality and fewer appeals to impossibility than did
>secular children,” the study concluded.
>
>Refuting previous hypotheses claiming that children are
>“born believers,” the authors suggest that “religious
>teaching, especially exposure to miracle stories, leads
>children to a more generic receptivity toward the impossible,
>that is, a more wide-ranging acceptance that the impossible
>can happen in defiance of ordinary causal relations.”
>
>According to 2013-2014 Gallup data, roughly 83 percent of
>Americans report a religious affiliation, and an even larger
>group -- 86 percent -- believe in God.
>
>More than a quarter of Americans, 28 percent, also believe the
>Bible is the actual word of God and should be taken literally,
>while another 47 percent say the Bible is the inspired word of
>God.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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113. "article has a cpl inaccuracies regarding article publication"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1) the article appears in Cognitive Science, the preeminent journal in cognitive psychology

2) it was made available online in July for early view as it was being edited. The article is in the December issue i think. Not that anyone here (including me) was looking for the physical copy, but if u are...

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Fri Dec-19-14 07:29 PM

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116. "Im an atheiest who was exposed to religion - dont find that at all"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Id actually argue for some exposure for kids so they can develop a rounded world view.


You figure out later in life whether you want to believe or not - and whether its fact or fantasy.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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SoWhat
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118. "same here."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Tw3nty
Member since Jan 02nd 2007
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Fri Dec-19-14 08:21 PM

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117. "Atheist are 0.07% percent of the prison population"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/why-atheists-make-85-percent-americas-scientists-and-07-percent-its-prison

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  

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SeV
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Fri Dec-19-14 08:31 PM

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121. "cause people never find religion in prison..."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

dumbest shyt I've read

yal atheist ain't doing much trying to prove yals intellectual superiority over religious folk



but im banned tho.
____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

  

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Tw3nty
Member since Jan 02nd 2007
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Fri Dec-19-14 08:34 PM

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122. "Jail population reflects the general population"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

90%+ of the people in jail are going to be believers of some sort.
That's just how it is, sorry.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  

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SeV
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125. "Maybe cause majority of the people in the country are believers"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

I really thought atheist were big on logic?

yal got a lot in common with the religious fundamentalist



but im banned tho.
____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Fri Dec-19-14 09:32 PM

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124. "but you be at drake cole concerts"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

so like lol

  

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SeV
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Fri Dec-19-14 11:20 PM

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127. "Who is Drake Cole?"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

and I like how u couldn't dispute anything bi said so u throw something irrelevant into the discussion


mighty Christian conservative of u

like I said

yal r just as bad as the fundamentalist

just on the opposite end of the spectrum

but im banned tho.
____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
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Sat Dec-20-14 02:24 AM

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128. "you didnt say nothin to dispute moron"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

make a point about christianity and watch it come up short like your girlfriends kentucky shot

  

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SeV
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129. "do better."
In response to Reply # 128
Sat Dec-20-14 02:32 AM by SeV

  

          

Can't believe I'm replying to these random weirdos

muhfuggas be sittin on lame ass drake comebacks for years waiting for me to reply to them

smh


but im banned tho.
____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
2533 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 09:29 AM

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131. "a grown man"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

that listens to the same music most teenage white girls listen to, & and bible beater


and got the nerve to call somebody weird, lol

  

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godleeluv
Member since Jun 11th 2013
5784 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 11:18 PM

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126. "and kids who believe in Santa and the tooth fairy dont?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


♥♥Church Diva♥♥

  

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Binlahab
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Sat Dec-20-14 08:21 AM

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130. "why do yall want lil kids to become actuaries or whatever?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Let them believe in Santa or that animals can talk or that superheroes exist, shit

They're children not adults. They'll grow up and lose that wonder and joy and innocence and be just as cynical and mistrustful of everything as everyone else in time


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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Sepia.
Member since Feb 25th 2009
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Sat Dec-20-14 09:43 AM

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132. "Agreed. n/m"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

  

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daryloneal
Member since Jan 08th 2005
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Sat Dec-20-14 10:59 AM

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138. "Yeah because why should children enjoy childhood."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32680 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 11:43 AM

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139. "religion is a necessary component of that?"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

  

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daryloneal
Member since Jan 08th 2005
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Sat Dec-20-14 11:46 AM

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140. "My point is that this is a stupid exercise."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

So we should be interested in factors that may or may not play a part in determining whether or not a 5yr old believes that Big Bird is real?

---
but have you ever checked out my website? www.dtaylorimages.com

  

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cgonz00cc
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Mon Dec-22-14 01:01 PM

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141. "trying to understand human psychology is a stupid exercise?"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

  

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