in my county, there is an effort to expand the civil citation program
so that kids will not be arrested for misdemeanor weed on their first offense.

instead, they will have to go through a treatment program or whatever.
sound reasonable?


surely we all realize that giving a child an arrest record that will follow them around
for the rest of their natural born life-- thus affecting their
opportunities to join the military, get a scholarship, or find a job-- is
a dumb idea.

right?


wrong.

fuck that kid and fuck his future.
an arrest record is a small price to pay. we must continue the war on drugs.


let me back up.
the dude i was talking to seemed well intentioned.
he genuinely believes that marihuana is a clear and present threat to children's lives.
he genuinely belives the benefit of "sending a message" outweighs the dangers
of giving a kid an arrest record.


but belief ain't facts.
and the fact is some ppl will always do drugs,
and arresting them makes their lives worse, not better.
society loses because ppl with arrest records can't be as productive.
even if you feel all drugs are bad, surely you have to admit that getting arrested for drugs makes it harder to kick the habit, not easier.


if we are going to think of the children,
let's think about them in a for real way.
let's not arrest them for getting high.


because that doesn't help anybody.



or do you think it does?

explain how arresting kids for smoking pot is helpful.

nobody should go to jail for drug use.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

i agree completely.

edit: i had vented about som'n else. i got it out.

fuck you.

arrest records are forever.
yes, some things can be expunged.

but because of the way the Internet is now the shit can still show up.
And some jobs ask you straight up if you have an ARREST record.

doesn't matter it was expunged or if you never went to jail or if
you were cleared of all charges.

just having an arrest can fuck your life up in a major way, forever.


more ppl need know this.
everybody needs to know this.

and they should take this into account before they just try to
lock ppl up for dumb shit.

kids, especially.
since this anti-drug hooplah is always about "the children."

yes, let's think about the children.
somebody needs to.

fuck you.

I'm confused as to your point.

I don't want anyone arrested for weed possession at this point.

I think that was the question you wanted answered.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

decriminalization should solve this for weed. it's a trend. it won't slow down. soon enough 50 states completely legal. in which case it's probably still against the law as a youth but...

youthful offender records can be thrown out without repeat offense.

take heroine though. should it be decriminalized? should someone with multiple offenses keep their record?

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

legalize all of it.

do i think kids SHOULD use coke or heroine or meth?
no.

but don't lock then up for it.
that fucks up their lives too severely.

and anyway, most kids have no interest in drugs.
kids won't start smoking just b/c it's legal.


the harm of arrest is greater than the harm of any drug.
legalize all of them.

i'm against the criminalization of use. but sale i'm kinda neither here nor there with. the reason people sell doesn't have the same moral footing imo. legalize it and it becomes a wholy different thing. but a kid selling alcohol to an adult is still illegal.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i'd like it to be legal, but i have no problems with
forcing ppl to go to regulated distributors to buy...


kinda like alcohol is legal but i can't sell my own hooch.
i'm okay with that.


>i'm against the criminalization of use. but sale i'm kinda
>neither here nor there with. the reason people sell doesn't
>have the same moral footing imo. legalize it and it becomes a
>wholy different thing. but a kid selling alcohol to an adult
>is still illegal.
>
>█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
>Big PEMFin H & z's
>"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1
>thing, a musician." � Miles
>
>"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

but right now I'm watching my coworker deal with a teenager who is obviously using harder drugs.

She just totaled her car... and she is calling her mom every 20 minutes with crackish stories that make no damn sense.

I'm cool with weed but there is no way heroine or coke should be legal.?

>I'm cool with weed but there is no way heroine or coke should
>be legal.?


arrest, in and of itself, is a traumatizing experience.
you don't get kids off of drugs by traumatizing them.
research has shown that's not effective.
actually, arresting kids makes them MORE likely to keep using.

not only that, once you have that arrest record, it follows you around for life.


life.
as in, forever.

so this kid, who is already struggling, will struggle even harder when it's time to fill out college application. when he applies for military service. when he tries to get a job.


30 years later, when this kid is an adult,
that arrest record will STILL be there. even if the kid has kicked all drugs,
he still has that arrest record.

how is the arrest record helpful to the child?
how is it helpful to society?
why are we giving children-- who are basically dumb-- LIFELONG consequences
for stuff they did when they were dumb children.


if we are going to make this about "the children,"
then let's think about them.

but booze is legal for ppl who have reached the age of majority.

legalize all of it - even crack and heroin and meth. all of it.

regulate it and tax it.

fuck you.

in fact, it will make it harder to get her life back on track.
and she will live with the consequences of that arrest record for the rest of her life.

so when she's 49 yrs old,
she'll still have to answer for an arrest record she got when she was a stupid 16 year old.

she shouldn't be arrested for getting high.
all drugs should be decriminalized.

yes, even heroin.

an arrest record is worse for you and society than those drugs.

my initial post was more so about dealing heroine and crack.

However, I think once you turn 18 and get caught with a few packs of heroine you have to face the consequences.

I know about 4 or 5 people I grew up with who died from shitty heroine or OD'd on it. Fuck heroin. That shit is the worst.

which would likely reduce the amount of shitty product on the streets. shitty as in will kill you.

having said that, i'm on the fence with crack and heroine. i see both sides, i suppose.

heroine addicts ALWAYS want a better high, I think the black market would thrive even if it was legal.

I have a friend, he was straight laced like shit, the last one we would ever believe to break into churches to support his habit.

Not a fan of legalizing heroine AT ALL.

So clearly the illegality hasn't curbed his dangerous behavior. He's not alone. I think it's time for another approach.

fuck you.

He would still do those things if it was legal because he had to pay for that habit one way or another.

And if your friend committed crime to buy legal heroin he'd still face potential criminal charges for that crime. But not for simple possession of the stuff.

fuck you.

i know, i know.
that's crazy.

go to a clinic.
have heroin injected with a clean needle by a license nurse and medical care ppl on standby.

don't pay any money... just go get free drugs if you want them.


no bullshit, that would be cheaper for society than this drug war.
but i won't argue that point because you'll just tells another
reason why addicts need to just be punished.

>
>He would still do those things if it was legal because he had
>to pay for that habit one way or another.

http://www.reconsider.org/wordpress/?p=73

and it's working. I would need to see more data on it but I could support this if the numbers held up.

>I know about 4 or 5 people I grew up with who died from shitty
>heroine or OD'd on it.

arresting children for having or using heroin will not help them
kick the habit. it will make it harder because an arrest is an inherently
traumatizing experience-- especially for a child.



>Fuck heroin. That shit is the worst.
>


and to the extent that this is true,
ppl with heroine addiction need drug treatment for sure.

they don't need arrest records and they don't need to be in jail.
that makes everybody's life worse, not better.

I don't think druggies should get the same punishment as violent offenders but they have to face consequences.

I'm all for lighter sentences and rehab but I'm not a fan of legalizing drugs that has people out in these streets robbing and stealing for a hit.

the druggies that rob and steal should be punished for robbing and stealing.
the drug itself should not be criminalized.

you know how alcohol is legal but it's illegal to rob a liquor store to get some alcohol?
same deal.

again, arresting ppl for getting high will not makes them less likely to rob you,
it makes them more likely to rob you.


>I'm all for lighter sentences and rehab but I'm not a fan of
>legalizing drugs that has people out in these streets robbing
>and stealing for a hit.
>
>
>

making it legal doesn't make it free...

And along with it i'd encourage the taxes and fees and retail prices to be kept at or below the going rate on the black market so if ppl are going to buy they'd buy the legal stuff.

If ppl commit crime to get the stuff they would be prosecuted if properly arrested.

fuck you.

>And along with it is encourage the taxes and fees and retail
>prices to be kept at or below the going rate on the black
>market so if ppl are going to buy they'd buy the legal stuff.

Not saying it can't be done, but the higher the taxes the greater the likelihood of an existing secondary market.

If I go to the recreational weed shop even with my CO discount I'm going to pay about $50 an eighth. Now that's competitive with illegal prices in much of the country, but it's not competitive locally.

If I buy it from my guy (illegally) I'm going to pay about $50 a quarter.

So for the convenience of a retail location and the peace of mind of state legal purchasing, I'm paying about a 100% markup.

Which frankly, isn't really worth it. Not to me, anyway. Older people seem to love it, though. I made a dispensary stop this weekend due to some issues with my guy, and it was PACKED. Almost all people over 40, too.

i still blame hip-hop.

just because a dispensary opened?

Sure, the cool factor gets the older people out but no one is going to pay 2x the price just because it's legal and taxed.

Only reason I would do it is if my connect failed or I was visiting and wanted to do the touristy thing.. or I wanted to try some amazing strand I couldn't get anywhere else.

it's just not at 100% markup.

i don't know if you drink, but think about it this way:

if you can get Jameson for $25 a fifth at the liquor store and a guy around your way can get you good moonshine for $20 a fifth, is it worth your time and effort to meet up with the guy, commit a crime, and have less purchasing choices?

Probably not.

But if Jameson was $100 or $200 a fifth, the $20 moonshine would be a lot more appealing.

I would go to the dispensary if it was a 10% or 20% markup, I think.

It's nice. I have multiple options. I don't have to wait around for my dude or meet him in a parking lot or his house if he's not on my side of town.

But it's not worth double.

i still blame hip-hop.

hell, I buy beer and liquor at a mark up from the bar and I also have bought moonshine from the accountant at my job. I'm in Charlotte.

I think the difference though is the black market has a product that is a lot closer to Jameson than moonshine.

If I can only get loud, high quality from a dispensary and brown frown from my guy than I will pay a higher price. But if I can get decent loud from my guy. I'm copping from my guy.

I agree though, I would definitely cop legally if the markup was much lower.

Because it seems like reasonable minds agree on a few things:

1. the legal market is sustainable and desirable at a price point above the black/grey market

2. there's a point where the legal market loses utility to the consumer if it's artificially (taxes) above the black/grey market.

But it seems like the big bucks are in being able to determine where exactly that price point is, which is pretty debatable, as far as I can tell.

i still blame hip-hop.

Possessing or using or selling the drug (with a license) would be legal.

fuck you.

but I'm definitely against legalized the selling of heroine.

do they just wanna punish drug addicts?
or do ppl really think arresting and incarcerating drug users make society a better place?

do you hate drugs so much you are willing to support
life shattering consequences for behavior you can't stop anyway?

is this about God or something?


is there a single non-racist reason we are fighting this drug war?

but crack and heroine aren't on my list of things to do so I don't care to fight them.

I think it's also because I saw the effects of those 2 drugs on family members so I'm not a fan of either of those drugs

It's not about racism (white people do tons of hard drugs too), or hating just to hate. I simply have an opinion that is different from those who want all drugs legalized.

I can get behind reduced sentencing for drug use and an easier path to getting records expunged or getting into rehab vs jail.

But I will NOT ever vote for legalizing heroine if it was on a ballot. I may reconsider if more info comes in that legal dosing in controlled areas reduces user, crime, etc...

i want it legalized largely b/c i understand that criminalizing the drug has not eradicated the desire for ppl to use the drug. ppl will always want to use heroin. it is never going away.

and if legal i don't expect more ppl will use it. i think ppl don't use heroin today not b/c it's illegal but b/c the drug and its effects aren't attractive to the overwhelming majority of ppl. and that won't change w/legalization.

also w/legalization i would want to see increased drug education and awareness programs and messages. i'd want the public to be told the truth about drugs so they can make informed decisions about using or refraining. and if they choose to use and end up hooked and want to get off i'd want all the money that's currently spent on the war on drugs to be funneled into drug treatment - w/o criminal penalty.

fuck you.

please let the ppl know.

>all the money that's currently spent on the war on drugs to be
>funneled into drug treatment - w/o criminal penalty.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

don't get me wrong that's a benefit.

but the war on drugs is nothing short of a human rights violation.
the laws are unevenly enforced, they have life shattering consequences for humans,
and what's more-- the laws don't curb drug use.

whites use drugs at the same rate as blacks, even though
white ppl are much less likely to be penalized for doing it.


we have to give the drug war a face.
the war, in and of itself, is the tragedy.

it's not about how we can benefit if ends
it's about the fact that letting it continue is unconscionable.

>
>>all the money that's currently spent on the war on drugs to
>be
>>funneled into drug treatment - w/o criminal penalty.
>

but the first thing people will say is "who is going to pay for all this treatment?". there's an argument to be made there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

racist, right?

and how the war on drugs is fought in certain communities (urban)

and not in others (suburban)

even though there is no significant difference in use and dealing

you can see how that is racist, right?

to JCM, I think the reason people support the war on drugs is fear from propoganda

have you ever seen Reefer Madness?

to see it now is F'N hilarious

but they did the same shit with Bath Salts a few years ago

remember we were all going to have our faces eaten off by zombies?

typical US fear mongering to fuel the prison industry, $$$.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

>racist, right?
>
>and how the war on drugs is fought in certain communities
>(urban)
>
>and not in others (suburban)
>


why didn't cops patrol white college campuses with the same
intensity that they patrol the hood?

don't tell me that the hood has more drugs.
they certainly don't.

i've been to both places.
trust me, the drugs are everywhere.


>even though there is no significant difference in use and
>dealing
>
>you can see how that is racist, right?
>



>to JCM, I think the reason people support the war on drugs is
>fear from propoganda
>
>have you ever seen Reefer Madness?
>
>to see it now is F'N hilarious
>
>but they did the same shit with Bath Salts a few years ago
>
>remember we were all going to have our faces eaten off by
>zombies?
>
>typical US fear mongering to fuel the prison industry, $$$.
>
>


i don't know how deep the conspiracy goes,
but yes. the fear mongering and hand wringing about drugs
works out well for some institutions.

prisons being one of them.

>why didn't cops patrol white college campuses with the same
>intensity that they patrol the hood?
>
>don't tell me that the hood has more drugs.
>they certainly don't.
>
>i've been to both places.
>trust me, the drugs are everywhere.

the disparity in arrests/prosecutions/convictions for drugs isn't because black and brown people like drugs so much more, it's because they're targeted for arrest.

it's mindnumbingly obvious to me (and a lot of us) but i'm not sure the majority of people see this.

i still blame hip-hop.

you bring up the issue and ppl start talking about Black on Black crime or something.
it's infuriating.


>the disparity in arrests/prosecutions/convictions for drugs
>isn't because black and brown people like drugs so much more,
>it's because they're targeted for arrest.
>
>it's mindnumbingly obvious to me (and a lot of us) but i'm not
>sure the majority of people see this.

.
.
.
"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."