I ran across this cat last year and was puzzled at his aggression towards those that dont agree with him

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0uhnpTvulI/

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C067FXXuRLE/

full interview here:
https://www.youtube.com/live/fRWwApuUI1I

seems like he is saying we can’t consume are way to independence

not really sure but I didn’t watch the whole thing yet.

I don’t think its a myth because companies market to us on the daily.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

He is saying Capitalism cannot save the collective and he takes issue with people who perpetuate the idea that Black Capitalism will save Black people.

His argument is unless we pursue actual political power nothing will change because capitalism is not built to help "the people"

Double 0
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Dr Claud Anderson teaches this extensively.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

to our advantage... it would require the exploitation of another group...

...also, to effectively leverage capitalism in our favor... would also require a war machine to impose and maintain against that exploited group...

...Dr. Claud's teachings is foundationally an attempt to galvanize political action for economic gain or relief.

Capitalism will not and can not save us... by it's very nature.

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there is a way to siphon capital and pool resources using a group currently within our culture, without the requirement of exploitation

this group is gainfully employed with access to capital, highly educated, views already align with our cultural goals, and are organized with chapters across the country.

but this tactic requires a new way of thinking, something that our culture refuses to do.

you continuing this dialogue and glad we're doing so in earnest...

...i'd challenge that what you're describing isn't a model of capitalism... yet collective social organizing... and is also a model I actively support and conduct my passion with...

capitalism is a completely different beast that we don't and should not employ... namely because we don't control the means of production or the weaponry via military or sanctions to maintain such a model...

...I'd also just to nudge you toward looking at the model you've described as a not a new tactic... but one that we've leverage and continue to ever since we've found ourselves in this situation...

our culture is that of fight against... we would have been eradicated long ago, if it were not...

it's the being distracted by the myth, spell, allure of capitalism that would divert us off the path to play the game their way...

to your point, revolution is an intellectual endeavor... not to imply from a college degreed perspective... rather from a perspective of learning the system and it's operation and countering with a radical approach and idealogy... such as Fred Hampton, Ida B. Wells Kwame Ture, Ella Baker, Maurice Bishop lens...

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no.

in fact, i loathe the idea of organizing first. its not possible at this time. i think thats the main disconnect. once you say organizing first isnt possible it derails the thought process of those that dont agree

so no, im not describing a model of capitalism at all. im merely recognizing capitalism as the current model used in the US, and suggesting we put up a net to harness money and resources from the system already in place, in order to fuel the changes we want

we dont have the power to change the US away from capitalism, its fools gold until we amass that power. until then, playing our hand and the board on the table is our best bet

those radical approaches have gotten us little to nowhere but we keep staying the course

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I’m always thrown at people with platforms that preach their way is the best ir only way.
Black buying power is not a myth. When a couple from Chicago wrote a book about spending with black businesses only, they received all negative letters and death threats.

There’s something very very fearful universally of Black people having buying power, creating our own wallstreets, even growing our own land and living off our own brands. Also I’ve never seen another group of people’s spending being magnified so much. Even when you talk about reparations, there are a number of us that will say ‘we won’t spend it right’. Ask them how would they spend it and suddenly their a financial guru and some how different from the rest of the Black population.

Even if you consider Blacks having political power, campaigns cost and I honestly dont know of any Black based lobbies. We have enough black politicians with white backing and making sure to keep their constituents happy, so politics alone is not the answer at all.

but yeah, where is the black political lobby?

like it or not lobbying is currently how you get things done politically in the US.

so if Dr Bell wants us to abandon capitalism, how will we pay any law firm or lobbyist to push our issues?
group economics is probably the best way to pool our money in order to fund the movement properly.

...that what we're striving towards...

...in terms of "capitalists" their are (maybe) a handful of actual black capitalists... meaning those that actually control marketplaces...

...it was capitalism that sponsored the Civil Rights movement, Black Panthers, any revolts of the past... etc...

it was collective social actions that moved in a radical direction for change.

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Way too many non-Black hands have been in NAACP’s pot as well as with HBCU’s. We honestly don’t have a lobby that is for us and by us. That doesnt mean one couldnt exist, but if we as a whole nation of people must first come together, then thats not going to happen. But if we talking a number of wealthy Blacks backing Black candidates that solidly align w/ us as a whole, then yes. Although we have seen this with a number of our politicians, we still dont know what bag a politicians going to come out of after elected…and that’s only if they win the election.

I wouldn’t knock any form or facet of upliftment that is for us & by us, be it capitalism, politics, in-house socialism, entrepreneurship, militias, food preservation, education, health, transportation, entertainment, you name it.

...from radical movements of revolution towards capitalism and entrepreneurship.

Effectively, if you take your household budget and say... "oh, if I could just spend these funds for starting a business... I'll overcome."

There's a host of issues with that:
- majority of those funds are spent on housing, food, clothing and survival...
- the access to capital is effectively non-existent for the strata of black america...
- no group of people got their "wealth" through entrepreneurship, they were attained or "given" via political programs... (see Dr. King "coming to get our check..."

...I strongly encourage people to read his "Myth & Propaganda of Black Buying Power" books... latest edition was released recently...

...and to check out Black Power Media on YouTube... they have great content and analysis with levity.

He's a very solid brother with a profound resume... and is actually OKP as OKP can be.

with love,

peace.

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...I'm certainly still learning.

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I really didn't want you to say all of this and only get the dismissive response you got.



>- the access to capital is effectively non-existent for the
>strata of black america...
>- no group of people got their "wealth" through
>entrepreneurship, they were attained or "given" via political
>programs... (see Dr. King "coming to get our check..."


Yvette Carnell talks a lot about the gov't intervention point as well. I have trouble understanding why so many refuse to grasp that. I understand us having a "gotta get it ourselves" mentality, but that's not how the capitalism game is played at the highest level. Elon Musk gets got BILLIONS in federal grants and contracts for SpaceX. They not giving my Black ass that kind of money no matter how good my idea, and would rather kill me and put a white face on my idea than do so, but I digress.


>...I strongly encourage people to read his "Myth & Propaganda
>of Black Buying Power" books... latest edition was released
>recently...
>
>...and to check out Black Power Media on YouTube... they have
>great content and analysis with levity.

^^ That's where OKP is going to bow out and opt for dismissing you or calling you names. I takes time to understand where someone is coming from with such ideas, mostly because they go so directly against what so many Black people have been taught to believe. It's a process of mental reconstruction and understanding the idea in varying contexts. I'm pretty done and have just started waiting on people to come around after bumping their heads. I appreciate you towing the line tho.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

hell, 10 years ago...

I would have been combative and borderline competitive on here...

...either I'm getting tired and old or finally figuring out no one changes in an instant... esp. myself... and certainly on a message board...

...plus we all have our right to view this situation as one does...

much love and still learning.

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I know that’s old as hell but if you boycotted Nike until they invested in HBCU’s heavily I bet money it would work.

Not sure how it would work with politics but I’m sure there are things locally that we spend big money on that if we stopped it would make waves.

Can’t tell me 13% of the population doesn’t have buying power.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

...that's an example of withholding participation in a service... (one that should be a public service...) ...and act of social protest with political ramifications.

...buying power would be buying out the bus system and controlling it...

...which was done prior with independent black bus lines... that were later undermined by public policy and awarding of government contracts.

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those bus lines weren’t running for free which is why it had an impact.

and yes, if we redirected that money to black businesses and services it would be a problem.

When white folk miss out on our dollars they make moves to stop it from happening.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

...what you're assigning to as "buying power" is collective action and protest.

...thus the danger of assigning the myth that it is was "buying power" that led to change.

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40,000 Black folk used the buses in Montgomery.. 75% of bus riders were Black in Montgomery.

Although African Americans represented at least 75 percent of Montgomery’s bus ridership, the city resisted complying with the protester’s demands. To ensure the boycott could be sustained, Black leaders organized carpools, and the city’s African American taxi drivers charged only 10 cents—the same price as bus fare—for African American riders.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

of those taxi fares?

...that's where the myth lies...

(note: the following is by no means intended to downplay the extraordinary effort of the Montgomery Bus Boycott... it is and will remain an amazing feat of collective action...)

...to convert the notion of leveraging another service (temporarily) towards a goal of change isn't 'capitalism'.

They didn't create a toll roads... stand up an independent bus system... hike up fuel prices of the existing bus system... use agents of the state to force drivers to work obscene shifts... add a higher tax on tires used by the buses... enforce new changes on what types of buses could be used on the roads...

...those and a number of other things would be leveraging 'capitalism'...

...they significantly sacrificed convenience and efficiency for a greater good...

that's not buying power nor any arm of capitalism... that's collective social action.

You don't defeat capitalism with more capitalism.

You do so with social change... not a marketing tool of "buying power."

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it has been helpful..


I do wonder why there has been no large movement in "spaces of capital" to create a think tank and lobbying group for black issues.

When we here about The Koch brothers and their use of capital they are funding political organizations that are absolutely swaying Washington (AFP, FreedomWorks, The Cato Institute).

What is keeping the "buy black" capitalist movers and shakers from funding and creating an organization like this SOLELY to sway political will in the US towards the collective pressing issues?

Double 0
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Producer in Kidz In The Hall
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preface, I'm still learning and can only share from a perspective at this moment that can and will shift...

i view the "think tank" / "lobbying" and the capital that funds it separately... maybe more precisely... "differently" than what is status quo...

...our think tanks are the colleges, book clubs, 3rd spaces, message boards, revolutionary/leftist/pan-african/socialist organizations, 3rd places, brave & true artistry... are our* forms of think tank...

...i feel (still learning) our solutions must be dialectical to what the oppressors leverage...

such as the funding aspect...

...based on the a quick forbes search, Koch family has 2 of the top 25 richest people in the world... the few "wealthy" (morseo "rich") we have... are at the whim of their distributors... none of ours control the faucet... nor should it be a pursuit... b/c outside of it being a losing game... it's an exploitative game...

all that to say... since we wouldn't fund* entities like a think tank in that manner... thus our "think tanks" wouldn't be as such...

it's the status quo think tanks that seek ways for the system to adapt in order to maintain it's function... so our counter must be counter...

...i hope i conveyed my aim in the response...

essentially, it would be...

pursuit of think tanks leveraging capital we don't have shouldn't be our objective... the black capitalists are turning up being spokespeople for the system at best...

...radical political organized action has been the instrument of freedom globally...

...and frankly, borrowing from Dhoruba bin Wahad, there hasn't been a fight/right/battle we've won in the history of this american construct without bloodshed.

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they are forever STUCK on getting everyone together FIRST.

go back and listen to Stokley, to Angela, to Fred. listen to how frequently they say, “first, we have to organize/ come together”

Dr Anderson will spend an hour detailing and describing to the minute detail just how we DONT work together, then turn right around and contradict his own words and say getting together is our first step.

thinking differently is our only recourse.