Folks were saying they did Jill and even Eve dirty by that song (and leaving Eve out the video),but the thing looking back in retrospect is that, the way the label delivered it to the world ended up being the biggest songs in Roots history and winning a Grammy.
9. "Eve is credited in the liner notes as 'Eve of Destruction.'" In response to Reply # 1 Thu Jan-19-23 01:02 PM by squeeg
Which is the name she was going by when she was signed with Aftermath, before she joined Ruff Ryders. They didn't put her name on the back of the album as a feature, but then again, Common, Mos Def, and Beanie Sigel got the same treatment. The only feature listed on the track listing is Erykah Badu, which I assume was the label's doing.
?uest once told the story of why Eve wasn't in the video. I don't remember it now, but if I recall correctly, the band wanted her there.
_______________________________ gamblers and masturbators.
2. "i never knew that was Eve from RR...." In response to Reply # 0
...holy shit thats a bad move not to put her in the video ...would have been dope to see Eve with Roots production instead of the garbage she put out with RR
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Thu Jan-19-23 10:31 AM
4. "Maybe its a rumor but the story was Eve waited for a limo" In response to Reply # 0 Thu Jan-19-23 10:36 AM by legsdiamond
that never came to pick her up for the video shoot
No idea if its true or not.
Its never a bad idea to use a superstar to bet more views. I think the bigger issue was hearing the Roots manager didn’t sign her to a deal because he didn’t think she could sell records.
Again.. no idea if that was true or not.
Weird question but always wondered if those were Jill’s ankles in her videos. She has like 3 videos where they show her walking and the ankles always seemed a bit too skinny based on her frame. Which was just weird because the next shot we can all see she is a curvy woman.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
5. "I wonder how much I would have gotten into The Roots without Badu" In response to Reply # 0
She was what made me pay attention to The Roots and Common with their two videos. Jill's version is great and she is an amazing singer but Badu did bring a nice flavor to it. Of course her popularity was the big reason they did it but I think musically it made sense too. It doesn't quite fit her persona of the rest of her music though.
Leaving Eve out of the video and the credits?? That was always confusing to me. I guess it depends on timing but I know by the time I had the CD Eve was already getting play with her RR stuff. I was probably a bit late to get it to be fair.
7. "Did she not get paid?" In response to Reply # 6
I figure they just didn't list her as a featured artist but probably got credited as a writer and paid. She didn't get the exposure she would have by being in the video and listed as a featured artist. If she didn't get paid or any writing credit then yeah that would be really messed up, that seems doubtful to me.
8. "i figr if she did maybe it was a one time thing..." In response to Reply # 7 Thu Jan-19-23 12:13 PM by mikediggz
i may be wrong but i thought the residual income comes from being credited
edit: this came from the article
“I felt bad about the Eve situation,” Questlove said in the same City Paper story. “Because I didn’t know that was going to milk Erykah’s name and not really give Eve proper credit. definitely felt dissed by us … And again, I’ve got to explain that, ‘Well, my record company controls the last word.’ And that’s some emasculating shit.”
>I figure they just didn't list her as a featured artist but >probably got credited as a writer and paid. She didn't get the >exposure she would have by being in the video and listed as a >featured artist. If she didn't get paid or any writing credit >then yeah that would be really messed up, that seems doubtful >to me.
10. "As someone who loves the Live version with Jill Scott and " In response to Reply # 0
The record version with Badu. I am happy we got to hear both of these talented women on this song. That being said, I wonder what a studio version with Jill Scott would have sounded like compared to the Live version. I think Badus voice might have been better suited for the song and video but who knows.
They're more similar than not but I still feel that Erykah's voice gives a different tone that works better. It's subtle and if it was just on the radio I think it would have hit just as well. I think people seeing Badu in the video did give it a bump though.
30. "also didn't Thought write Eve's raps?" In response to Reply # 15 Thu Jan-19-23 06:11 PM by Stadiq
I also swear I read that somewhere. Which doesn't excuse her not being in the video or whatever, but I don't think she co-created the song or anything. I swear I've read those are Thought's raps and/or originally it was just going to be him rapping from the woman's perspective...?
Either way, I agree with you. More similar than not but I prefer Badu's version.
Having her on there was the right call...and I sort of doubt it was *all* the label too.
Jill's live versions are fucking incredible though.
12. "^ yea this is where I'm at." In response to Reply # 11 Thu Jan-19-23 02:20 PM by Brew
The disconnect for me is this: the OKP article said (paraphrasing) "turns out the label was right." But who's to know ? That is to say, how can we know for sure that the Scott version wouldn't have been *JUST AS HUGE* had the label decided to just put the same resources behind it that they did the Badu version ?
Fuck the label. Shit was fucked up.
As someone above already said, I'm glad we have both versions with both these incredible singers. But no, the label was not right, IMO.
>Even if it was a hit and it won a Grammy it's still wrong.
>The disconnect for me is this: the OKP article said >(paraphrasing) "turns out the label was right." But who's to >know ? That is to say, how can we know for sure that the Scott >version wouldn't have been *JUST AS HUGE* had the label >decided to just put the same resources behind it that they did >the Badu version ? > >Fuck the label. Shit was fucked up. > >As someone above already said, I'm glad we have both versions >with both these incredible singers. But no, the label was not >right, IMO. >
19. "That's just wishful thinking though. " In response to Reply # 12
I mean sure maybe that song is that good on its own and it doesn't matter who singing the hook it would have blown up. Maybe the song would have done just as well if Jill was left in it. But done better? How Sway?
Its a heck of coincidence that the biggest song they ever released happened to feature one of the biggest charting artists they ever worked with. Hard to think that a no name artist would have achieved the same result no matter how well they sang the song.
Then they also have a song with Jill Scott that has very similar vibes that comes out a few years later that doesn't have nearly the impact.
I get that we don't know how much resources the label put into each record and maybe Easy Convesations would have performed better if it got the same push as You Got Me. Who knows.
What we do know is how well the song did with Badu which makes it hard to see the POV that they made the wrong choice.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
21. "Who said "better" ?" In response to Reply # 19
>I mean sure maybe that song is that good on its own and it >doesn't matter who singing the hook it would have blown up. >Maybe the song would have done just as well if Jill was left >in it. But done better? How Sway?
I said "just as huge"
>Its a heck of coincidence that the biggest song they ever >released happened to feature one of the biggest charting >artists they ever worked with. Hard to think that a no name >artist would have achieved the same result no matter how well >they sang the song. > >Then they also have a song with Jill Scott that has very >similar vibes that comes out a few years later that doesn't >have nearly the impact. > >I get that we don't know how much resources the label put into >each record and maybe Easy Convesations would have performed >better if it got the same push as You Got Me. Who knows.
Right. Who knows. Point is you can't definitively say "the label got it right."
>What we do know is how well the song did with Badu which makes >it hard to see the POV that they made the wrong choice.
Fair. They obviously didn't get it "wrong," but the question was whether they got it "right" which, my point was, you can't definitively say.
16. "Tangent, how do yall feel about "Lost Me"?" In response to Reply # 0
Not familiar with Iyla but checked this song out cause of the Benny feature. I kind of like how she flipped it and that would had made more sense for Badu's persona.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Thu Jan-19-23 03:33 PM
18. "This really happened" In response to Reply # 0
Driving with Mos and Kweli and their bitchy ass manager Corey
Kweli: can we play this tape of new shit for yall Me: yeah Kweli: This is the new Roots song Me: Shit is hot, who is the chick rappin Kweli: a girl Me: Nigga I know its a girl, what is her NAME Kweli: hmmmph, Eve
Not surprised niggas didnt put her in the video, this nigga Kweli didnt even want to tell me her name.. lol
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Fri Jan-20-23 10:35 AM
38. "nah.. we used to throw shows in college" In response to Reply # 20
my roommate had an awesome idea. He worked for the college newspaper to get access to hip hop shows and I would be the photographer to get backstage access to shows..
then we would find artists managers.
I have stories with Jeru that are fucking hilarious. Funniest and nicest of all the rappers we worked with and we always sold out.
stories like:
Playing tekken with Jean Grey in my bedroom. Trying to check Souls of Mischief into a stinky hotel “this smells hella bad” Realizing Bobbito had And1 handles while playing basketball with some hood niggas selling trees to Alkoholics at my apartment being schooled by LTJ Bukem on cell phone service and trying to get them niggas to stop putting tobacco in their weed.
Dan the Automator telling us about this group idea that was all cartoons and me telling him that shit sounded ridiculous. “How the fuck will they perform live shows?” while eating every dish possible at an Italian restaurant because the owner was a huge fan.
Jeru hopping out the van at the motel and asking the drivers girlfriend if she was “coming or staying?” and seeing her hop out the van and say “sorry” to the driver and then Jeru saying “PEEEEEEACE”
my college experience was fucking glorious. lol
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
>my roommate had an awesome idea. He worked for the college >newspaper to get access to hip hop shows and I would be the >photographer to get backstage access to shows.. > >then we would find artists managers. > >I have stories with Jeru that are fucking hilarious. Funniest >and nicest of all the rappers we worked with and we always >sold out. > >stories like: > >Playing tekken with Jean Grey in my bedroom. >Trying to check Souls of Mischief into a stinky hotel “this >smells hella bad” >Realizing Bobbito had And1 handles while playing basketball >with some hood niggas >selling trees to Alkoholics at my apartment >being schooled by LTJ Bukem on cell phone service and trying >to get them niggas to stop putting tobacco in their weed. > >Dan the Automator telling us about this group idea that was >all cartoons and me >telling him that shit sounded ridiculous. “How the fuck will >they perform live shows?” while eating every dish possible >at an Italian restaurant because the owner was a huge fan. > >Jeru hopping out the van at the motel and asking the drivers >girlfriend if she was “coming or staying?” and seeing her >hop out the van and say “sorry” to the driver and then >Jeru saying “PEEEEEEACE” > >my college experience was fucking glorious. lol
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Fri Jan-20-23 12:42 PM
46. "broke college kids.. lol" In response to Reply # 44
we were used to booking 2 rooms max.
4 rooms? shit
which is what it smelled like
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Fri Jan-20-23 10:41 AM
39. "breh.. I aint fuck with him from that moment on" In response to Reply # 22
Mos cool as fuck
but Kweli? That nigga different.
my homie said on the way back to the airport he was playing a beat tape and the tape player ate that shit and Kweli said: “it must be a sign”
my homie almost pulled the van over.
We actually found a girl on campus to run interference and keep Kweli away because that nigga was insufferable.
and them niggas aint practice..
they were dope but we did a few shows with them and they got noticeable worse each time. My dude was like “do yall rehearse?” and Mos says “we aint seen each other since the last time we seen you”
and we were in VA
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
>We actually found a girl on campus to run interference and keep Kweli >away because that nigga was insufferable.
Can't blame you, I would've done the same.
>they were dope but we did a few shows with them and they got noticeable >worse each time. My dude was like “do yall rehearse?” and Mos says “we > >aint seen each other since the last time we seen you”
Damn lol
You should do a Charlie Murphy and drop True Hip Hop stories on You Tube or something.
24. "Funny how life turns out" In response to Reply # 18
seeing that Eve is now a grillionaire due to marrying an uber rich upper crust of society type dude years ago. I'd imagine life is easy for her these days.
Her getting played to the curb by The Roots is probably a distant memory to her, at least hopefully it is.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Fri Jan-20-23 03:19 PM
54. "didn’t Kelis also marry a Billionaire? " In response to Reply # 25
that’s some “and I’m not going back” steez
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
26. "How did you take that?" In response to Reply # 18
Did it seem he wasn't impressed by her? Was he trying to keep her name on the low because he thought she would get stolen away? Did he just not really remember it?
I guess at the time women rapping was like a producer or white person rapping.
28. "Compared to now?" In response to Reply # 27 Thu Jan-19-23 05:29 PM by mista k5
There were very few getting the success and respect that they deserved. I think Eve was a big part of opening that up for women but that obviously hadn't happened yet.
I'm trying to rationalize why they would front on Eve. They liked her enough to put her on their biggest single but not enough to give her the feature credit or sign her (if that's true). Why? I feel like she always showed she was good.
Edit: Nah, that actually wasn't a bad period for women rappers, not compared to the other two. Foxy, Kim, Missy and Lauryn.
>There were very few getting the success and respect that they >deserved. I think Eve was a big part of opening that up for >women but that obviously hadn't happened yet. >
Queen Latifah, MC Lyte, Salt n Peppa, Yo Yo, Rah Digga, Da Brat
>I'm trying to rationalize why they would front on Eve. They >liked her enough to put her on their biggest single but not >enough to give her the feature credit or sign her (if that's >true). Why? I feel like she always showed she was good.
Do you mean "They" the record label ? If your answer is yes, you already know why they would front. Industry rule 4080
33. "Man I've been meaning to do a female MC post from some time now. " In response to Reply # 29
Wanted to talk about how its kind of devolved into everyone being a Nicki or Cardi knockoff and how everyone has kind of forgotten the pre-NIcki history of the genre...without the post turning into gender warz.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
59. "That's a good idea" In response to Reply # 33
"Wanted to talk about how its kind of devolved into everyone being a Nicki or Cardi knockoff and how everyone has kind of forgotten the pre-NIcki history of the genre."
That's exactly what I was thinking when I typed the reply.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Fri Jan-20-23 10:44 AM
42. "I took it personally.. lol" In response to Reply # 26
shit was disrespectful
Eve was a stranger to me so it came across like he was hatin on her
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
58. "Women weren’t foreign in the hip hop game. They were actually" In response to Reply # 26 Fri Jan-20-23 05:36 PM by allStah
successful in that era, but with one caveat, they had to be put on by a crew or a well known artist. They couldn’t just go straight to the label with a demo, or push through simply on their own.
Lil Kim ( biggie - junior mafia) Rah Digga (busta- flipmode Lady of Rage ( Dr.Dre) Yoyo ( Ice Cube) Lauryn Hill ( Fugees)…etc,etc,etc
Hell, even Eve had to get with Ruff Ryders to really get on. Dr.Dre had her just sitting on the shelf.
I’m not sure if The Roots fought for her to be included in the video, or if they just conceded immediately to the label’s ultimatum.
She had one hell of hip hop career. She topped the charts several times, was just the third female mc ( at the time) to have an album debut at number one on the top 100 billboard chart, and she won a Grammy for her collaboration with Gwen Stefani
Female MCs blew up in the 90s
ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid
68. "I wonder if it was he was salty about Double Trouble" In response to Reply # 18
>Driving with Mos and Kweli and their bitchy ass manager >Corey > >Kweli: can we play this tape of new shit for yall >Me: yeah >Kweli: This is the new Roots song >Me: Shit is hot, who is the chick rappin >Kweli: a girl >Me: Nigga I know its a girl, what is her NAME >Kweli: hmmmph, Eve > >Not surprised niggas didnt put her in the video, this nigga >Kweli didnt even want to tell me her name.. lol > He was supposed to be on that record too but Thought pulled his verse.
36. "if i remember correctly, quest offered his broken grammy to eve on fallo..." In response to Reply # 0 Fri Jan-20-23 10:15 AM by Airbreed
eve was a guest and she talked about not getting a grammy for you got me, and quest offered her his grammy that he said was on his toilet but was broken. it was literally offered to her in two pieces.
40. "What was her response?" In response to Reply # 36
I wonder if that was a pre-arranged bit that Eve was cool with. I'm of the assumption most anecdotes nightly talk show guests tell are pre-arranged with the host, so I wonder if that award offer fell under that.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Fri Jan-20-23 10:56 AM
43. "Philly dudes different" In response to Reply # 40
Dude told me Fresh Prince was “kind of an asshole” when we asked how Philly feels about his success.
Said he would come home.. drive up to the corner, ask you to come over to the car and then drive off laughing.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
45. "We all know why they went with Badu over" In response to Reply # 0
Jilly Jill. Jill was simply, in the industry’s eyes, not attractive due to her size. That was the perception of plus size women before the start of the “me too” movement in my opinion.
That wouldn’t fly in this era of women Of all shapes and sizes. Women have more power and independence now, and rightfully so.
If Jill were perceived as a physical hot attraction, the record company would have went with her. There is no doubt in my mind about that.
They went with Badu because of her notoriety and look. Jill Scott’s version is the best version.
ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Fri Jan-20-23 12:48 PM
47. "No.. Jill blew up long before me too" In response to Reply # 45
this was the Roots record label using a hot artist to help increase sales.
the public had no idea who Eve and Jill were at the time.
They wanted national appeal and Jill and Eve were local talents at the time.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
49. "Yes…Jill blew after her album dropped." In response to Reply # 47 Fri Jan-20-23 02:24 PM by allStah
But what I’m saying is if she were a young hot looking female artist, the label would have went with her regardless of her not being known. …no way would they have went the other way.
And even though she did gain notoriety and success throughout her career, I still feel she was under promoted and under marketed compared to other music artists.
ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Mon Jan-23-23 03:18 PM
62. "aint no way a label is picking a hot unknown singer over Badu" In response to Reply # 49
who was a hot well known singer at the time.
label is picking the hot known artist every time.
the only way that happens is if The Roots fought for her or refused to do the video without her.
Now, if The Roots manager actually had faith in Jill and thought she could sell records I’m sure they would’ve fought to have her in the video. But even still, the Roots were unknown to the masses so any chance to “cross over” with Badu was the better business decision.
Not saying it was the right decision but its like going on tour. Does it make more sense to headline your first tour or open for an established artist with a huge fan base?
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
52. "Nah this a unfounded messy take. " In response to Reply # 45
And we know this because they did Eve, who is thin and sexy, shiesty too.
Like the success of the record wasn't going to turn on how cute the singer was.
Like we know the long history of using bigger artist on features to help catapult a song, that's enough to explain it. To add this element with no evidence, is being messy.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
53. "Eve was a MC though. She wasn’t a singer. That’s " In response to Reply # 52 Fri Jan-20-23 03:21 PM by allStah
an entirely different approach for a record company. And even though there we’re female mcs in the game, record companies weren’t going all in like that.
If Jill Scott had the hot looks ( she was still beautiful)of an Aliyah or some other young sexy singer, they would have pushed that. Badu’s notoriety definitely played a role, but I think appeal was a factor as well.
I can’t see them saying no in that situation, because a lot of that went on in the music business.
ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Tue Jan-24-23 07:05 AM
65. "you are correct on appeal" In response to Reply # 53
but wrong about how it would trump using an established artist.
If the Roots were established at that time then it makes sense to introduce a new artist.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
63. "I don't know about "right". But it worked. " In response to Reply # 0
-Erykah's voice has a certain, haunting quality that married perfectly to the beat. I don't know that Jill could match that feel.
-Eve not being in the video makes no sense.
Big picture though?
The song is a hit. That beat and Thought's performance on all but guaranteed something special. The rest was gravy.
So, if anything, they were splitting hairs by switching it to Erykah.
I wouldn't say they're vindicated by the song's success. It worked, but it's not like the alternative would have been all that far off at worst, and it could have equaled the version we got at best.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80223 posts
Tue Jan-24-23 11:50 AM
66. "What if??? What if Jill was in the video and didn’t go on tour with Th..." In response to Reply # 0
Let’s Butterfly effect this one.
What if Jill does the video, labels come running and she is in the studio working on her album instead of touring with The Roots?
First time I was introduced to Jill was at the 9:30 Club in DC and she blew that shit down.. and she was doing this every night.
Also wonder if that decision made her work even harder to prove everyone wrong
of course in a perfect world she gets the video, does all the tours, signs to a label and is even more massive.
but I wonder if Jill is like “everything turned out fine” or if there is still a part of her that thinks she got screwed over.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
70. "I wish the song had blown up with Jill and Eve" In response to Reply # 0
But that's not the way mainstream radio/media works. In the end, it was worth it because the band was actually thinking of breaking up or seriously reevaluating their career if the album wasn't successful, IIRC (i can't remember if that's in the liner notes or 15 said so on here many years ago)
Because of that album, they were able to get some notoriety, get another gold album in Phrenology, and continue to get probably really good money touring the world.
I do think ?uest said the biggest reason the song/album was a success was that the label basically paid radio to play the song. So, given the number of resources the label was willing to give to the band, maybe the band had to give a little and take Jill off of the song.
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