We are talking hits, for money making purposes.

i just noticed that alot of recent hits are starting to pull sounds, and loops from free software like Garageband. That Usher song, I recognized right away as some shit from Garageband. That make love in the club.

http://www.icompositions.com/artists/MauriceMichaels

http://www.imeem.com/people/Lw9dWFX

http://www.youtube.com/user/mauricemichaels

Who cares?

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GET ON MY LEVEL!

I mean, at some point in the process from your brain to a full album/mixtape, you'll have to break bread (i.e., mixing & mastering), but to get the ball rolling? I'd never spend a fortune on recording and beats, etc.

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Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

no

www.myspace.com/ninjobeats

but it helps. a whole lot.

you g otta gave billion dollar creativity and skill to get million dollar sound out of a $100 set up.
expensive equipment is overrated at times, but in the hands of a person who knows what they're doing, the possibilities can't be understated.

trust they didn't just bang that usher cut out in garage band and take it straight to the club. there was a whole lotta post production work that happened to get that shit to radio ready standards.

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shakin your block with a 6 million dollar bop

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www.davidevanmcdowell.com

not too mention he's talking about a LOOP from garageband

usher didnt RECORD in garageband.

y'all believe cats spend all that money for nothing? recoupable dollars at that???

you ever hear a madlib song in the club? or better yet on anything other than earbuds...its unintelligible. the bass isnt powerful. the highs dont cut etc

to properly represent the frequency spectrum you need two things

1. properly treated room
2. excellent monitoring

and last but most certainly not least EARS (preferably a seasoned engineers ears)

and for that you gotta pay...not a million dollars

but not no mbox and hr824s either

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

and to cats saying No.

i'd like to point out the biggest records in history have equal critical acclaim in terms of recording engineering

thriller
the beatles catalogue
to earth, wind and fire to motown and jimi hendrix

to the present day dr. dre records

its not a coincidence

i'd like to hear some1 name major RECORDS that been recorded on shit equipment

i dont know if anyone can name any.

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

Beck, Mellow Gold, recorded on a four track.

Of course, once he got picked up it was professionally mixed and mastered, so that doesn't quite count.

However, there does seem to be a trend for some artists to do tracking in more personable, less expensive studio setups. There has been a lot of financial waste in the label system, and with things as they are, people are looking for different ways to do business. 1 or 2 stacks a day for tracking really adds up. I've also been in some famous producers' home spots, and they haven't all been that upscale. Once they've finished tracking, they send it to the high dollar mixing and mastering labs to give it the polished sound.

For a lot of artists/bands, this is the best option because it helps keep down those recupable expenses owed to the label when the record comes out.

Not everybody is a Janet Jackson, who is rumored to have spent 20 million in promotions for this new record. I'm wondering how she could make any money back in today's music economy.

i didnt say you couldnt do it at home...

you can

but you need a quality chain.

mics-pres-converters

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

read my reply. i wasn't completely disagreeing. but the title of the thread is "Do you need a million dollar studio", and i was just elaborating on that point...because I don't think you do. If you pick your gear well(even high quality gear), do your homework, and take time to dial in good sounds, you definitely don't need a million dollars worth of gear. Now that doesn't mean you can get super high fidelity from a cheap-ass mbox class A preamp, but there is a lot of breathing room between the laptop/mbox setup and the $2000 a day at Hit Factory Miami setup.

...and I think the Geoff Emericks, Rudy Van Gelders, Bill Putnams of the world would say the same thing. A lot of the award winning sounds they got came as much from ingenuity and innovation as it did from how many neumanns they had in the arsenal.

all that is true.

but no one is naming any classic material recorded on a budget.

thats a fact.

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

now it's a semantics game. What's "on a budget"? I could name a lot of classic records that weren't in million dollar studios. You heard of Sun Studios, Memphis, TN? Or Stax? They started out very much on a budget. A lot of great Blue Note jazz albums were recorded in a living room...no overpriced auralex, just a decent sounding room, a little bit of gear, and one hell of an EAR behind the boards. Even now, Blue Note's cash cow artist Norah Jones recorded her last record in her apartment. I'm sure she had some decent gear and a good engineer but I highlydoubt she spent close to what she would have at one of the major studios.

But hey, I'll stop here, cause this will just turn into another silly, pointless Okayplayer argument. Only here. smh. lol.

sun studios as well as van gelders spot had all PROFESSIONAL equipment (which was back then...good mics/pres/room and tape machines). as i am sure norah jones has.

i'm not trying to argue with you. i'm pointing out that as much as cats believe you don't need "professional" gear no one has actually proven otherwise.

a million dollars...of course not. but substantial money - YES

a million dollars is a catchphrase.

cats on these boards really belive erykah did her new album in garageband. cats believe 50 records through an mbox.

it aint so

again..YES people record at home...through neve, api, tube tech etc

lemme do a search on norah jones "home studio"

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. And I'm definitely not one of those cats who thinks you can just use a pc and fruity loops to make great records.

However, I disagree that all of those classic studios always had loads of great gear. You should read the book Temples of Sound. Just as much emphasis was put on inexpensive but well planned live room design, mic placement, and PERFORMANCE. Some of them were building their own boards or seeking out decent but used consoles and tape machines. Some of those great new sounds on classic records came from breaking rules of engineering and even overloading equipment. I think for the sake of this discussion, most people here can't afford expensive mics, pres, and six figure SSL consoles, and it's helpful to discuss ways to improve sound affordably.

I'm trying to emphasize that with good musical ideas and good technique you can get surprisingly good sounds out of less than stellar gear. If most people here were working in big budget places, they a)wouldn't need this topic or b)wouldn't even come here(unless they just come to boost their ego). It's important to encourage aspiring producers and engineers who don't have access to U87's, great mic preamps, a 20 grand HD system, 5 grand worth of Waves plug-ins, and so forth. If I seem to harping on this point it's only because I think that people get caught up in thinking that good gear=good sound. When Led Zeppelin recorded "When the Levee Breaks", that huge, fat sounding, oft sampled drum track was recorded in the hallway with one microphone at one end and Bonham pounding away at the other. Good idea + good performance=good sound. As a friend and Chief Engineer at a major studio always has said, "it's not the gear, it's the ear".

I've been to sessions where there was great gear, yet the young PAID engineer straight out of Full Sail or wherever had no idea how to cut vocals cleanly.

Then, I've been to sessions in a guy's apartment where he had a 400 dollar Focusrite pre and a 250 dollar Audio Technica mic running into a 002. He knew how to use the settings on the pre, knew the best spot in the room for the mic, had some makeshift 5 dollar soundproofing, and understood how to use the stock plugins in ProTools to eq and balance the dynamics of the vocal performance. He had some pretty complex vocal mixes involving multiple sessions comped together, and the shit sounded really clean and professional. He also understood how to coax a great performance out of an artist, which is another important piece of making a good record that people forget these days.

Of course everyone wants great gear but you have to learn to stretch the gear you have and always focus on your imagination and THE MUSIC

Anyway, perhaps we should all discuss techniques as much as gear.

i agree with 99.9% of what you said.

in my experience...i found that I couldnt figure out how to use a compressor properly when all i had was a behringer. it was a piece of shit and so...i couldnt even figure out what it was supposed to do. the same thing with eq. when i had the mackie board...i could never make shit sound phat. fast forward a couple years...my first high end piece was an avalon737. compression suddenly made perfect sense. i could HEAR what was happening. you said those studios didnt have the most killer gear but

(1) when recording live musicians the ROOM is the most important asset (other than said musicians)
(2) all equipment was expensive and for the most part quality back then. there were no companies creating "prosumer" shit for the bedroom producer. it was all made for broadcast and pro recording facilities. heck, the original mpc 60s was like $5000. the fairlight samplers were like $20,000

so comparisons between eras is hard to do. and of course if the engineer is a novice the product will suck. and of course the performance is the most important element.

BUT you cant polish a turd as they say.

russell elevado gave some advice over at gearslutz. he said point blank dont buy cheap shit. you are better off buying 1 $2000 piece..then 5 pieces of shit for $400.

i couldnt find info on norah jones...but i'm sure she has the best mics-pres-compressors-converters-interfaces grammy money can buy.

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

russ engineered alot of major projects...roots, dangelo, common, badu, hargrove etc...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-russell-elevado/116456-daw-bedroom-producers.html

Quote:
What are your thoughts on the ability to get a solid mix from tunes concepted and born of a home studio, specifically a laptop based solution?

from my experience, seperating (as many of) your tracks and bringing them up on an analog mixer/console always sounds better than just coming from a stereo out of your DAW. i give people a lot of credit if they can get a great mix from staying "in the box". the budget always plays a big role in the end. but if you're on a tight budget you have to make the best of it. mixing or working in the box has never been an ideal situation for me, so i don't do it. i can't get things to work for me like i normally can. everything about it is different than what i do. i don't want to stare at a computer screen to make music. i like physical contact with faders and knobs. not to mention the brittleness and coldness of the sound. i haven't worked on any digital consoles, so i can't speak about that.

so with that said...save your money and buy some hi end gear. i'm very spoiled as i've always had nice equipment to work with so it's easy for me to say this. but instead of buying 7 pro-sumer things with $1000, buy 1 or 2 pro things. the gear does make a huge difference. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE! in audio, cheap means cheap. there's a reason why a 1073 neve module is $4000 versus an entire Universal Audio plug-in bundle which seems like such a great deal. Do you really think that the $300 plugin version of the LA2A is really going to sound like the real thing? Don't waste your money on fancy "brand name" plug-ins. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!


__________________
russ elevado

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

sorry i was so long. family funeral. ugh.

Yeah, I definitely agree that the real, quality outboard gear is way better than the plug in imitations. However, there is some breathing room between a Behringer(lol) and a Neve, for those who don't even have a few stacks to spend. And those of us who don't always have access to bigger studios, it's a matter of picking and choosing what gear it's worth dropping serious money on, and then learning it inside and out. The goal, of course, is to do impressive enough demo work with what gear you have to land an opportunity to work in better facilities...with better toys.

But you are right to emphasize getting the highest quality signal possible. It's something people don't think enough about these days. It amazes me how much generic, sterile sounding stuff makes it to radio now.

Being a guitarist, I've experimented with software amp simulators and using real tube amps and preamps. There is no question that the real gear gives a fuller sound. The software has its place, though, for adding effects and so forth. You don't always need a super expensive amp to get a big sound, though. People would be amazed to know that some really amazing, massive sounding guitar tones have come from small, low-watt boutique amps.

anyway, maybe that's for another thread. Thanks for the dialogue.

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Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

I've seen somebody whistle into a Radioshack mic and it turn out to be on Juelz Santana's album

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www.twitter.com/logicmarsalis

even if the average listener cant consciously hear good recording/mixing/mastering

they can FEEL the difference

Creativity.

Memorizing now-
MF DOOM- Special Herbs 1 - 9
Miles Davis- Sorcerer
J Dilla- Ruff Draft
Yesterday's Universe- Prepare 4 New Yesterday
Onra - CHINOISERIES
Without a parable YAHushua spake not. Matthew 13:34

Gear isn't everything in this business, but it certainly is something. And while post-production does wonders, you can only polish a technologically crippled turd so much.

Southern Soul Vol. 1: The reMixtape. Want a copy? Holla.

www.myspace.com/chopsteak

...
If u want to make a million dollars from music....
make some good shit...in your bedroom...and get it inot the right people's hands....get them to like it....and have them pay for the 'polishing up'..

..that simple

you do not need the expensive equipment to make a great record. the record itself is created in the brain and fleshed out with instruments

what is needed AFTER the great record is created, is a great SOUND to the record. great mixing, great mastering.

even then, it doesn't matter how much gear you got, how well the room is treated.

you need knowledge, and a second set of ears for the best results. so a knowledgeable engineer who knows how to utilize his room and the gear within it makes the great record into a polished final product

but the great record comes before all of that.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

nah, all you need is some pirated ableton live and you're good to go.

the original version of Crank Dat was recorded with some shitty mic and fruity loops and got over 1000000 hits on youtube and that song was clipping like hell. Even Hot 97 played the crappy version when the song was first hitting and before Collipark signed him. But besides that I can't think of anything recorded with crappy equipment that blew up.

36 chambers was made with the most rag-tag collection of equipment in modern history.

The original version of "Drop It Like Its Hot" was just Pharrell making clicking noises with his mouth into a microcassette recorder.

Okay I made that one up.

But yeah...the early and middle days of hip hop had a lot more of that kind of thing.

Southern Soul Vol. 1: The reMixtape. Want a copy? Holla.

www.myspace.com/chopsteak

its all lies

36 chambers was done at firehouse studios (i worked there). sony studios it wasnt...but rag-tag is a major stretch. many classics were recorded there. it was all professional equipment.

i wont even address the atliens comment. in 1996 ALL MAJOR RELEASES were using the big houses. and if you LISTEN to the album..you KNOW it was recorded well (and expensively). you really think ARISTA gonna let a platinum group record in a less than stellar facility

GTFOH

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

..i remember marvelling at how clean and clear the LaFace reocrds at teh time sounded