i generally don't like english films. i find most of them to be boring and envoke a style of humor that is strictly reserved for the english. and the most fustrating thing about c.o.m. was the long, drawn out conversations in the movie, which i also find typical in english films.

- there was no explination about how the human population became infertile.

- no explination about the "human project".

- there was no background story on kee, which annoyed me the most considering that she was the cataylist of the ENTIRE film.

- and what in the fuck was up with the scene w/ kee (a black woman) stripping nude in the barnhouse to show her pregnant belly to Theo among the farm animals??

and then, there was the ending.

that pathetic ending.

good thing i got my money back.

I HATE movies that make you think and don't explain every little detail for you. UGH

and im the first to jump on the avant garde films.

i generally like films that make me *think*. but this film sleptwalked throughout the entire plotline.

i was sitting there thinking to myself... THIS is what people are creaming over? this half ass filmmaking w/ half ass screenplay writing?

and.that.ending.

shit is horrible.

what a fucked up ending THAT had, smh

and now that I know about it, i probably never will.

lol

Art cinema does that all the time in regards to withholding story information and all those other problems you had w/ the film (ambiguity, indefinites, the withheld). And the canonical ones, too. Not just artsy fartsy stuff today that people cream over.

>i was sitting there thinking to myself... THIS is what people
>are creaming over? this half ass filmmaking w/ half ass
>screenplay writing?

It's all cinema to many of us: 1) the tight classical Hollywood plotting and character motivation fully or near fully accounted for and 2) ambiguous storytelling.

You prefer the former to the latter, fine. It's great and it's no wonder why it's the most popular form of storytelling in popular global filmmaking since the 'teens. I love many of 'em. But b/c you prefer it, then the alternative is half-ass? You're applying criteria that's suitable for something else.

And half-ass filmmaking? You should at least think commendable (not like or love) the film's style (e.g., the long takes) b/c it's vital and shapes the spectator's experience of the film and story. One of the many functions of the long take was to rivet the audience to the time and space of the environment (not a backdrop, but environment).

What's in and not in the frame; onscreen and offscreen sound; light; color; when to start and stop a shot - vital to filmmaking, no? And Cuaron/Lubezki and company half-assed that?

That there sounds like some high falutn' book lernin'.

Nobody got time for alla dat!

and don't lie. i'll check.


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some folks actually go to the movies to be entertained and have a story told to them instead of ideas presented and them filling in the gaps to form their own story (i.e. madlibs). Me, Im thinkin all day from work to studying for the bar exam so when I see a flick, I want to cease thinking and relax and be entertained. Does that make a flick bad if it doesnt do this for me? No, but it isnt what I was looking for. This flick, outside of the direction and acting, makes you entertain yourself by forcing you to overanalyze and theorize. Fuck that, I want to have a conflict presented to me and a complete resolution of that conflict by the films end. Now, when I was younger and had less time on my hands I looked for a movie to do what this one did, but not now. Too old and too tired.

I distracted myself during breaks by reading books that called for all of my attention. Otherwise it wasn't a complete break.

Also, I'm older than you are, and I was older than you are now when I took the bar. So age isn't an excuse.

I don't have a problem with people going to movies for entertainment. Absolutely valid. What I'm remarking on is this person saying that Children of Men was A Bad Movie because it didn't explain everything. I don't think that, objectively, it can be called A Bad Movie, and I think that it is certain that ambiguity is not per se bad. THAT's my issue here.

you could've skipped your entire retort and just said "He said this movie was bad because he didnt like it, and art is subjective, meaning everyone will view art differently."

My point stands to your original post.

I thought you were just complaining.

your comprehension game is crazy.

I responded to your post ------ "I HATE movies that make you think and don't explain every little detail for you. UGH"

Clearly you were being sarcastic and implied that airbreed didnt like the movie b/c it made him think.

I responded by saying a lot of folks go to movies to be entertained and have a story told to them rather than ideas being thrown at them that they must piece together on their own to gain some sort of value from their moviegoing experience. Whether it be right or wrong, that is the case. In essence, my point was that the general viewing audience wants a detailed and fulfilling story (beginning, conflict, resolution). This movie kinda gave you those elements but not really, hence dudes reason for not liking it. I explained my point by using myself as an example.

I just thought the ending sucked. I was in the theater and when it ended the whole theater was like Wtf. Is that it

They defintely sidestepped the plot and it was defintely lazy writing. I don't think this has much to do with it being British.

I still liked the movie as an action film, but the rest kind of fell flat.

i meant to go see this this past weekend
but i was too busy

the movie was trash.

I think Children of Men would have been much weaker if it addressed the things you talked about. It probably would end up being like The Island or I, Robot. Of course, who knows? Maybe those are your two favorite movies.

----
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but i wasn't looking for detailed explainations, as much as i was hoping for information that wouldn't leave a whole gang of unanswered questions at the end of the film.

i just think the story was too compelling to keep the film at a topical level. i would have liked to see more depth and complexity to it. because i think the idea of the entire human population becoming infertile is complex in itself.

but correct me if im wrong... did the movie actually end? it seemed that they ran out of film to shoot on.

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>but i wasn't looking for detailed explainations, as much as i
>was hoping for information that wouldn't leave a whole gang of
>unanswered questions at the end of the film.

You can answer them yourself. Or there isn't an answer. Or do you really need an actor in a white suit to come out with a clip board to name a made-up virus and explain that Kee was immune because of something she did as a kid? Who cares.

>i just think the story was too compelling to keep the film at
>a topical level. i would have liked to see more depth and
>complexity to it. because i think the idea of the entire human
>population becoming infertile is complex in itself.

I think there was plenty of Depth in Theo's character and the effect the infertility had on humanity. Loads.

>but correct me if im wrong... did the movie actually end? it
>seemed that they ran out of film to shoot on.

Yes. Theo's story came to and end. You obviously don't watch "avant garde" movies or you'd be very familiar with endings like that.

_
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>>but i wasn't looking for detailed explainations, as much as
>i
>>was hoping for information that wouldn't leave a whole gang
>of
>>unanswered questions at the end of the film.
>
>You can answer them yourself. Or there isn't an answer. Or do
>you really need an actor in a white suit to come out with a
>clip board to name a made-up virus and explain that Kee was
>immune because of something she did as a kid? Who cares.

depends on who you talk to.

>
>>i just think the story was too compelling to keep the film
>at
>>a topical level. i would have liked to see more depth and
>>complexity to it. because i think the idea of the entire
>human
>>population becoming infertile is complex in itself.
>
>I think there was plenty of Depth in Theo's character and the
>effect the infertility had on humanity. Loads.

lol

if that's the case, then you must like shallow characters aLOT.

>
>>but correct me if im wrong... did the movie actually end? it
>>seemed that they ran out of film to shoot on.
>
>Yes. Theo's story came to and end. You obviously don't watch
>"avant garde" movies or you'd be very familiar with endings
>like that.

you obviously missed the point at me being facetious.

Even when this dude was dodging bullets he seemed like he was somnambulant. And I actually had fun just sort of wildly making up reasons and explanations that were never even so much as hinted at. I have no choice but to assume that's what the writer intended for me to do.

but it seemed as if homeboy looked absolutely uninterested in putting any life or "diversity" in his character's personality.

i guess im just tired of films like these which jump start a compelling story, then turn around and leave you at the door with half-assed writing.

it was pathetic.

look at the bigger picture. clive owen's character had a child (one of the last in the world) with Julian. this child died just as the world he knows was about to die. this man is surrounded by things that remind him that life is shit.

some crazy shit happens to him that brings him right back into more misery, but also some purpose. he doesnt want to, but he knows he is basically now responsible for saving a child that represents multiple things:

1. "saving" mankind
2. saving his own life
3. making up for not being able to save his son. he has a chance to make his life right, even if its only in his mind.


this movie isnt about why or how _____happens. it is about what you do with______ when given a chance. its not a science fiction novel. it doesnt attempt to explain why the world is ending, just that it is.

this is the most backhandedly existential film ive seen in a very long time.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

I saw it twice, and it struck me that this is more of a character drama than the scienfiction/adventure/protest movie a lot of folks seem to mistake it for.

Maybe I'm digging too deep though. Anyway, I liked it.

I'm #ffffff

...where "I don't know" is an acceptable answer?

Why do we have to know what caused the infertility? Why is so bothersome to people that the characters and the world they inhabit does not have an answer to the big question?

Without knowledge, there is more of a sense of "The world is going to end" attitude.

Yeah, they don't know what The Human Project is, which is addressed by Theo, but what are their other options? Go with FISH who just killed Theo's ex-wife? Go with the government who would quickly take away her baby? It was a bad plan but it was the only plan they had.

Wait.

Hold on.

Let the irony sink in.

Andddddddd...

...done.

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>...where "I don't know" is an acceptable answer?
>
>Why do we have to know what caused the infertility? Why is so
>bothersome to people that the characters and the world they
>inhabit does not have an answer to the big question?

its bothersome because it gives the story no sense of purpose. sure, we can all sit and create in our own minds what the answers may be. but if that's the case, i would have saved the 21 bucks, ordered dominos and replayed the trailer over and over for 109 mins.

and to accept "i dont know" as an acceptable answer, makes the whole initative to see it, futile.

maybe im "old fashioned" in terms of storytelling, and im aligned with the perverbial "begining -middle- and ending" w/ an actual "The End".

some folks are comfortable with films that are written as a jigsaw puzzle leaving the audience to fill in the "gaps". but the problem with that is writers make the mistake of expecting the audience to realize the 'phantom' interperetation of the writer, rather than the writer leaving a story open for interpretation to their audience.

and even with that... it is half assed to me as well.


>
>Without knowledge, there is more of a sense of "The world is
>going to end" attitude.

i agree. but again, not every audience member is going to get "it". and i think to play the film off on some avant garde psychology, it makes the film fragmented and pointless.

>Yeah, they don't know what The Human Project is, which is
>addressed by Theo, but what are their other options? Go with
>FISH who just killed Theo's ex-wife? Go with the government
>who would quickly take away her baby? It was a bad plan but
>it was the only plan they had.

agreed. but far too many questions were left unanswered which to me makes the whole film a waste of time.

"play the film off on some avant garde psychology"? WTF are you talking about?!?!

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

...its an observation.


>"play the film off on some avant garde psychology"? WTF are
>you talking about?!?!

filmmakers who avant garde to explain the personalities of thier characters.

NOTHING

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

but that was expected.

carry on.

First off: it isn't a verb.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

>its bothersome because it gives the story no sense of purpose.


sense of purpose? FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ALMOST 20 YEARS A BABY WAS BORN. were you awake during the beginning?

---------------------
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http://computerstupid.blogspot.com/ (updated 01/05/07)

>
>>its bothersome because it gives the story no sense of
>purpose.
>
>
>sense of purpose? FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ALMOST 20 YEARS A BABY
>WAS BORN. were you awake during the beginning?

my response was to the question about why "we" have to know what caused the infertility and Why is it so bothersome to people that the characters and the world they inhabit does not have an answer to the big question

and NOT Kee.

pay attention.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

matter fact...that shit was said in the damn movie. You have to wonder if peoiple even paid attention.

but there is nothing wrong with being odd. i mean you arent inkast or adwhizz odd. - VABestBBW
Binlahab is a bitch.
I wouldn't trust okp, some of them don't even get any anymore since the Re's stopped - Anonymous OKP

>...where "I don't know" is an acceptable answer?

I feel "talked down to" when a movie goes out of its way to explain itself to the lowest common denominator in the audience (NO DIS to the original post) or to legitize it's every detail. In fact I find movies that are fully "explained" to be more fake sometimes.

Fight Club is an example of a good movie that went waaaaay out of it's way to explain itself. Then again, I'm a big fan of Mulholland Drive, which explains nearly nothing about itself.

I kept thinking the same thing. It is a terrible film. Good acting Yes good cinematography yes. The story/plot terrible terrible. Com and Blood Diamond have really taken Hollywood's leftist garbage to new heights.

I mean, there are a lot of movies about rigid government systems and government conspiracies.

Blood Diamond did rub it in your face and wore its bleeding heart liberalism on its shoulder... but this one? Nah. Not really.

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And there were people in that thread who had the same feelings as you. What makes you the special one who gets a whole post?

Oh I know, you want attention. Don't lie.



-----------------

www.scholarballer.org

*rolls eyes*

Who was it that said "Call the waaaaaaammmbulance"? I'm going to start replying with that when people get all huffy over being a Film Student so they Know what Good Film Is and Isn't.

Whatever.

*rolls eyes*

>*rolls eyes*
>
>Who was it that said "Call the waaaaaaammmbulance"? I'm going
>to start replying with that when people get all huffy over
>being a Film Student so they Know what Good Film Is and
>Isn't.
>
>Whatever.
>
>*rolls eyes*

w/ all of the eyeball rolling, apparently you need glasses alice.

i posted in gd to spark conversation on a broader scale. not for the sake of complaining. and i laugh everytime when i see folks feel threatened by film students. if i had not said that i was one would you still think of me as being "huffy"?

..doubt it.

i dont claim to be an authority on film. but your response labels me as such without hesitation.

and that was expected.

get up off that, please

_____________________

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a&b convo nigrow.

mind yours.

the movie would just be meh.

but since it did have great camerawork that really adds to the drama and pulls you in closer... i liked it, just not nearly as good as this forum overhypes it to be. Also Clive Owen is a great actor, but he really didnt do much in this role to suggest so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

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That means that I agree with everything HighVoltage said here. That's it. Just so we're all clear.
________________________________________________________________________
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and you'll be alright

_____

//////

Children of Men was one of the best movies I've seen since The Departed.

Princeguy reviews:

"No pretentiousness.

No pompous re-interpretations.

Sometimes, a movie is just a movie. You work hard for your money.

The decision is yours.

See and enjoy what YOU like."

delete

what was the significance of the Human Project??.....
a little bit more about Kee and what made her different from the other women???(like a possible cure for infertility)...
what was all the burning of cows, horses and other livestock about(did the hormones in the food ultimately lead to the problem)?...
besides that it was a decent film, I didn't understand why would humanity fall to shambles due to infertility when science/medicine would ultimately be the most important occupation, and also some of the dialog shared between the characters could have been more detailed towards history and explanation of things (why would Britain be the strongest nation while Japan and China would be at the forefront of technology circa 2027)???....

On The Lookout 4:
some new music. WTF is going on this year?

>what was the significance of the Human Project??.....

they were outside the war torn Britain and doing research and according to rumors...succeeding.

>a little bit more about Kee and what made her different from
>the other women???(like a possible cure for infertility)...

irrelevant. If anything you could have gleaned that being black she was potentially connected to "original man" in some way but the why didn't matter. That was for the Human Project to figure out.

>what was all the burning of cows, horses and other livestock
>about(did the hormones in the food ultimately lead to the
>problem)?...

that threw me too. I would not be surprised that hysteria would set in and random shit like that would happen. But the idea of farm animals and the conditions they are treated is sprinkled through out the movie.

>besides that it was a decent film, I didn't understand why
>would humanity fall to shambles due to infertility when
>science/medicine would ultimately be the most important
>occupation, and also some of the dialog shared between the
>characters could have been more detailed towards history and
>explanation of things (why would Britain be the strongest
>nation while Japan and China would be at the forefront of
>technology circa 2027)???....

it's a british movie. Also it's surrounded by sea. There was "something" that spread through out the world (it was shown in a news cast) that spread "something" and infected everyone. Britain was one of the last places to give birth to children. Assuming it was a immigrant issue they closed their boarders.

but there is nothing wrong with being odd. i mean you arent inkast or adwhizz odd. - VABestBBW
Binlahab is a bitch.
I wouldn't trust okp, some of them don't even get any anymore since the Re's stopped - Anonymous OKP

because the human population is in decline there wouldn't be any sense in farmers feeding animals that will never turn a profit.

Another example of how the movie respects the audiences ability to connect the dots themselves.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

I didn't think of it that way....
I guess happy meals do turn out a large profit...
also might I ask who do you think blew up the coffee shop in the beginning??? They said the government but eventually we found out the terrorist group were liars

On The Lookout 4:
some new music. WTF is going on this year?

doing all of the terrorist attacks behind Julianne Moores back.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

man shit just let em live ya know...

but there is nothing wrong with being odd. i mean you arent inkast or adwhizz odd. - VABestBBW
Binlahab is a bitch.
I wouldn't trust okp, some of them don't even get any anymore since the Re's stopped - Anonymous OKP

first of all, nobody in the film's world knows why there is no more children. it's not that they just didn't tell the viewer.

second, it's better. if they know why they can try to fix it. "It's Virus XYZ! Let's find a cure!" No. They don't know why. That's why those religious people were outside in raincoats or whatever - they think God is mad. Not knowing helps to create and explain the hopelessness of the remains of civiliation.




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------------------------------

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that's basically the answer right there, and no one seems to have noticed.

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>- there was no explination about how the human population
>became infertile.

the way you phrased it means there's nothing for anyone

xxoo

no soup for you.

Go read the book.

Then you will see why there was no explanation as to why nobody could reproduce. The whole point was THERE WAS NO EXPLANATION! Nobody could figure out why, and they clearly expressed that in the movie.

You will see why the movie just abruptly ended. Theo did what he had to do. He redeemed himself.

-----------------------------
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Airbreed, I can see where you are coming from and respect your opinion on how you really didn't care for the film. It is definitely not a feel good film of the year and you will scratch your head about certain plot points. For me, I like films that make you think and not feed me the plot. Yeah, films are supposed to be entertainment but I also don't want them to insult my intelligence with some bullshit on the screen. I think I maybe one of the few people on PTP that actually liked The Fountain. It tried to be different and tell a story in an unique way. It might have been pretentous bullshit to some, but I left the film in awe.

COM has some of the most incredible filmmaking I've seen in a while. Like some mentioned, the long shots really bring you in to the action and the story. Also, I can see why people say this the new Bladerunner(the director's cut). Similar style and structure. Raises many questions that are left up to you to try to answer or not. I believe both deal with the dread of living in a future society not knowing which end is up. Which we are heading towards now with all the strife and bullshit going on now.

It is one of those movies where there's going to be two sides of the spectrum: people who love it and people who hate it. It's just one of those movies, there's no grey area.

I can understand all of your dislikings with the film, however, for me, those are reasons why I thought the movie worked and made it great. But like I said, I can definitely understand why you wouldn't like it.

But what I really wanna know is....Do you think Dreamgirls was better?

I, personally, was eager to see it and more or less dragged my girlfriend with me. I don't know how I felt about it because I'm still thinking about it.

However, it reminded me a lot of 12 Monkeys in tone because there was so much going on and at stake. With 12 Monkeys, they thought things were one way and they knew what was going on, but they were way off base.

It was pretty similar in COM as well. We thought the Fish's motives were pure, but they turned out to be just as corrupt as the government, if not more.

I agree with somebody above who saw Theo's actions as his penance for failing to protect his child with Julian, which was why she picked him in the first place. She knew he knew what it was like to care about a child.

They said over and over that no one knew why everyone was infertile and because of that, people started losing their minds and grasping onto everything and anything.

Also, Kee being the one person able to conceive was more about how the government blamed immigrants for all of the country's problems, but an immigrant actually held the key (pun intended) to the survival of humanity.

The one problem I had with the movie is that it could have raised the debate more of whether or not humanity was worth saving at that point.

>The one problem I had with the movie is that it could have
>raised the debate more of whether or not humanity was worth
>saving at that point.

that's not a problem...that's a different movie.


***********************************

myself is sculptor of
your body’s idiom:
the musician of your wrists;
the poet who is afraid
only to mistranslate
a rhythm in your hair...
-E.E. Cummings

But the question could have been asked by Kee or Theo. The people they were with were definitely not deserving of salvation and neither was the government. Hell, I was thinking that while watching the movie.

involved in gettting Kee to the Human Project. They all played their roles...Their ulterior motives made for good suspense, but in the end it was about getting Kee to where she needed to be and they all helped in some way.


***********************************

myself is sculptor of
your body’s idiom:
the musician of your wrists;
the poet who is afraid
only to mistranslate
a rhythm in your hair...
-E.E. Cummings

in OKP
Log
OFF
FAM!

_____________________________________
WITH CUZ (STACEY) GONE, I'LL NEVER REALLY BE HERE AGAIN

I swear I'm a marry an OKP


Nakia Genevieve are my middle names... Not my attempt to morph Phenom with Novembersgift... But...

b/c they expected something along the lines of "outbreak" where there is an answer for all the mysteries of the imaginary world full of chaos.

a blockbuster hit would have answers for a world on the brink of ending. i like leaving a movie w/ questions.


***********************************

myself is sculptor of
your body’s idiom:
the musician of your wrists;
the poet who is afraid
only to mistranslate
a rhythm in your hair...
-E.E. Cummings

it explains everything. and whats great is if your iq is higher than forrest gump's u can see 5 minutes into the future the whole time your watching it. good ol opie.
my only problem with COM is that i can't see it in my neck of the woods unless they re-release it with Nicholas Cage and less black people. 10 screens and 8 of em are showing movies that actually make you dumber. i dont even live in clan country, thats what makes this so crazy.
also i love films that leave stuff out, of course im going to have to see the fountain again but that is beside the point. when u leave stuff out the film becomes more interpreteable (sp). I hate movies where its like this takes place in 1965 its about a mechanic who recently had a baby named tommy, the whole family likes eggs but when an orange grove moves to town things change for the worse. change orange grove to hockey team and worse to better and its a disney movie. this may be a bad example but i hate stuff that is overly specific it doesnt keep me from relating but it makes it so much more mundane and may keep a lot of people from relating.

_
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http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/