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Subject: "iraq war vet: the hurt locker is inaccurate and unrealistic (swipe)" This topic is locked.
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theprofessional
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8761 posts
Thu Feb-04-10 10:45 PM

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"iraq war vet: the hurt locker is inaccurate and unrealistic (swipe)"


  

          

my hurt locker hate campaign continues. basically, this iraq war veteran echoes my views of the film. i don't care about the accuracy of the uniforms, but i did think the whole storyline about renner's character going jack bauer through the streets of baghdad was ridiculous. i mean, look, it was a good movie, no doubt. and it had four or five absolutely fantastic action scenes. but the overall story was lacking. i have no idea why this movie has critics and hollywood insiders (everyone but audiences) absolutely head over heels.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kate-hoit/the-hurt-locker-doesnt-ge_b_449043.html

The Hurt Locker Doesn't Get This Vet's Vote
Kate Hoit
Iraq War Veteran, VoteVets.org
Posted: February 4, 2010 09:20 AM

Military personnel everywhere should be celebrating: the war flick The Hurt Locker has been nominated for nine Oscar's. American's were so curious about the war and the soldiers who fight in it they bought 10 dollar movie tickets. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences thinks it's worthy; finally soldiers of the Iraq war have been embraced. Problem is, it's Hollywood's version of the Iraq war and of the soldiers who fight it. And their version is inaccurate.

The year is 2004, the Baghdad streets are clean, almost too clean, and dust lingers in the air, soldiers appear...in the wrong uniform. Soldiers deployed to Iraq in 2004, the year The Hurt Locker was suppose to take place, were not wearing the Army Combat Uniform. I should know I was there. We still wore the Desert Camouflage Uniform. How hard would it have been to get this correct? Apparently so hard that no one working on the movie could be bothered to consult anyone with knowledge on military dress, or visit the local surplus store. Congratulations, what seemed like a would-be decent military movie to those who had actually served was now automatically ruined within the first few minutes. And for future reference, military personnel do not roll their sleeves up in a combat zone.

No, the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) team would not roll out into the middle of Iraq practically by themselves. The Hurt Locker made it seem like the EOD team were taking on the streets of Baghdad; just them against a world of improvised explosive devices. However, this is when I realized the script writers were lazy. This movie is a full-throttle adrenaline rush that is comprised of ditching common sense and the realities of war. The writers did not attempt to formulate a story based on the actual job of an EOD soldier. Instead, they created a war junky, sniper, commando guy who relied on no one (and no radios?) and stressed out everyone around him, including those watching the movie.

Sergeant First Class William James, played by Jeremy Renner, befriends a young Iraqi boy, Beckham, who sold him poorly pirated movies. I will admit Hollywood got two things right: Iraqis typically sold horribly pirated movies but soldiers usually still continued to buy them. And with this friendship, The Hurt Locker, tapped into the more human side of war; the unique bond between some soldiers and Iraqis. However, this relationship set the stage for one of the best "this is total crap" scenes in the movie.

James forces a merchant, for whom Beckham works at Camp Victory, to drive him to Beckham's house (James believes Beckham has been killed and gutted to fit an unexploded bomb inside of his body). James makes his way to Beckham's house and demands to know what exactly happened to Beckham. Well, he never finds out because he is kicked out. James ride has left him and he has no other chose but to run back to Camp Victory. Throwing up the hood of the sweatshirt, he runs through the streets of Baghdad. While I watched that scene I automatically thought, there isn't a soldier in the world who would leave their base and run through Baghdad unless they were trying to commit suicide. I laughed out loud in the theater, like, could anyone actually believe this. When James finally reaches Camp Victory, a sympathetic soldier on guard duty lets him on base. So, let me get this straight. We have an American soldier running through Iraq in a hooded sweatshirt, trying to find out what happened to a kid who sold bootleg movies, and a sweet soldier who just let's James waltz on base? Bravo Hollywood; that was pure magical bullshit.

When James returns from Iraq and attempts to adjust to normal civilian life, The Hurt Locker, got it right: home isn't so sweet and readjusting is tough. James struggled to raise his children with his wife. Hell, he had trouble deciding what cereal to buy at the grocery store. James realized there was only "one thing" that he loved and that was military life. So, he went back to Iraq. This happens more then some would believe.

Aside from incorrect uniforms and how they were worn, what patches an EOD soldier would have on their uniform, who would accompany EOD on a mission, proper weapons, and showing NCOs (Noncommissioned Officers) drinking alcohol in a war zone, this movie resonated with many. My civilian friends "loved it", called it "awesome", and even told me I have "large balls" for going over there (to which I responded with, "uhh thanks.")

The Hurt Locker, is in many ways inaccurate. And the inaccuracies have alienated most service members from enjoying this movie. However, it is better then a lot of the recent war movies that have been released. Do I even have to mention Stop-Loss? Awful. James played a Hollywood soldier that was fearless, reckless, and is now the face of the 21st century G.I. Joe. And who doesn't love G.I. Joe, right?

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
did he think it was a documentary?
Feb 04th 2010
1
REPOST: My interview with OKP Jay Doz on this exact same subject.
Feb 04th 2010
2
good stuff. i'm starting to get the vets' beef with the uniforms.
Feb 05th 2010
10
good shit
Feb 05th 2010
14
haha, that article got me in so much trouble**
Feb 09th 2010
97
      FOR THE RECORD I FELT BAD ABOUT IT!
Feb 10th 2010
99
      it was a great interview though
Feb 10th 2010
100
its a movie
Feb 05th 2010
3
Aside from the inaccuracies....
Feb 05th 2010
4
The theme is pretty fucking spelled out.
Feb 05th 2010
5
i agree with this
Feb 05th 2010
11
Considering it's up against Avatar for best picture,
Feb 05th 2010
15
Well said
Feb 09th 2010
87
WAR IS A DRUG....
Feb 06th 2010
23
my brother said the same thing
Feb 05th 2010
6
Even with zero experience of Iraq
Feb 05th 2010
7
I don't see the point
Feb 05th 2010
8
if you approach it as an action movie, it's enjoyable
Feb 05th 2010
12
moviegoers: the hurt locker is a movie (no swipe)
Feb 05th 2010
9
LOL
Feb 05th 2010
22
"It's unrealistic as fuck. Deal with it."
Feb 08th 2010
53
      "And who are you?
Feb 08th 2010
55
The reviewer never explains why the inaccuracies are important..
Feb 05th 2010
13
she/her
Feb 27th 2010
116
it's pretty implausible
Feb 05th 2010
16
She's pretty cute, therefore I agree with all she says
Feb 05th 2010
17
wasn't she in abu gharaib?
Feb 05th 2010
18
RE: She's pretty cute, therefore I agree with all she says
Feb 05th 2010
20
yuck
Feb 06th 2010
34
And she's Airborne...I dig.
Feb 07th 2010
37
      ^^^focused
Feb 07th 2010
43
Police officer hates most movies about cops.
Feb 05th 2010
19
i heard cops love the wire though
Feb 05th 2010
21
      yep yep
Feb 06th 2010
24
           Coppola said, "My film is Vietnam."
Feb 06th 2010
28
                He was as mad as Kurtz
Feb 06th 2010
33
won't this always be the case?
Feb 06th 2010
25
Not really, see BlackHawk Down, SPR, Band of Brothers, Platoon
Feb 06th 2010
27
My Beef is that combat's already tenseful, suspenful and emotionally cha...
Feb 06th 2010
26
The Hurt Locker would never have been made.
Feb 06th 2010
29
      It would have been *harder* to make but it's still about the people in i...
Feb 07th 2010
36
           yet you think Saving Private Ryan was realistic?
Feb 09th 2010
89
                Compared to the Hurt Locker? Fuck and Yes
Feb 09th 2010
90
                     i don't get why this is so hard for folks to get
Feb 09th 2010
96
                     cuz you're complaining THL is unrealistic but then say SPR is realistic
Feb 11th 2010
105
                     what makes SPR so unrealistic?
Feb 11th 2010
109
                     nope
Mar 03rd 2010
121
                     give me a break.
Feb 11th 2010
106
                          Ok, explain
Feb 11th 2010
108
Sorry, but this is bullshit
Feb 06th 2010
30
no it's not
Feb 06th 2010
31
      ^^^^Gets It^^^^
Feb 06th 2010
32
      No
Feb 06th 2010
35
           This is the part you are missing.
Feb 07th 2010
38
                No, I'm actually not missing a thing
Feb 07th 2010
42
                     Okay, Player
Feb 07th 2010
45
                          *salutes this post*
Feb 08th 2010
49
                          Look, I ain't here to disrespect soldiers
Feb 08th 2010
57
                               wait, what success?
Feb 08th 2010
66
                               So you agree that you have an anti-critic agenda here.
Feb 08th 2010
71
                                    i have an anti-mediocre films winning oscars agenda
Feb 09th 2010
75
                                         Well, you may be crying in your beer come March 7
Feb 09th 2010
77
                                              i very well may be
Feb 09th 2010
82
                                                   All you, dawg
Mar 08th 2010
142
                               If you are going use us for your stories, at least get us right
Feb 09th 2010
84
                                    Caricatures? The motherfucker was embedded with soldiers in Iraq
Feb 09th 2010
86
                                    So the fuck what!? Fucker couldn't even write soldiers who spoke
Feb 09th 2010
88
                                    Time said that?
Feb 09th 2010
94
                                         RE: Time said that?
Feb 26th 2010
112
                                    Yes, it is too much to ask for a lot of artists.
Mar 07th 2010
140
Artsy fartsies are COPPIN PLEAS for how "its just fiction"
Feb 07th 2010
39
lol you STAY going in on the avant-garde aspects of this board man
Feb 07th 2010
40
yep
Feb 07th 2010
41
Correct
Feb 07th 2010
44
Let the smear campaign begin . . .
Feb 07th 2010
46
WGAF
Feb 07th 2010
47
If...
Feb 08th 2010
50
"It's unrealistic as fuck. Deal with it."
Feb 08th 2010
52
"And who are you?"
Feb 08th 2010
54
Training Day strikes me as a perfect analogy.
Feb 27th 2010
117
another vet pulls down his pants to dump on hurt locker (swipe)
Feb 08th 2010
48
Batman wasn't accurate but I loved that shit.
Feb 08th 2010
51
Enjoying the movie is not allowed.
Feb 08th 2010
56
As I said
Feb 08th 2010
60
      But you can.
Feb 08th 2010
65
I haven't even seen the flick yet & can call that a horrible analogy n/m
Feb 09th 2010
91
Retired EOD responds to Hoit's complaints (swipe)
Feb 08th 2010
58
that guy was just happy somebody made a movie about his job
Feb 08th 2010
67
      I'm glad someone did
Feb 10th 2010
103
This post is more interesting than the movie was
Feb 08th 2010
59
ha! agreed
Feb 11th 2010
107
Another vet pisses on Hoit (swipe)
Feb 08th 2010
61
^^^ Shiva, the God of Death
Feb 08th 2010
62
that guy worked on the movie. wow, what a surprise he liked it.
Feb 08th 2010
68
More soldier talk about The Hurt Locker (swipe)
Feb 08th 2010
63
patriotic puff piece, STILL filled to the brim with criticism
Feb 08th 2010
69
      better film *to watch before shipping out to duty*
Feb 27th 2010
118
Oh, what's this? ANOTHER OED liked the movie! (swipe)
Feb 08th 2010
64
hurt locker fails at box office, grosses $12 mil in five months (swipe)
Feb 08th 2010
70
      *scrolls down to see "Widest Release: 535 theatres"*
Feb 08th 2010
73
           535 theaters in five months = FAILED to find an audience
Feb 09th 2010
76
                Yeah, great, awesome
Feb 09th 2010
78
                     "i ain't readin' all that" = i just got dipped in hot lava
Feb 09th 2010
80
                          Oh
Feb 09th 2010
81
lol @ theprofessional.
Feb 08th 2010
72
And ironically enough, we're on the same side when it comes to Avatar
Feb 08th 2010
74
no, i'm mad that people don't like this film
Feb 09th 2010
79
LOL @ y'all pussy niggas mad that your favorite movie sucks
Feb 09th 2010
83
On a vaguely related note
Feb 09th 2010
85
i loved Generation Kill
Feb 09th 2010
95
      That show was tight as fuck
Feb 10th 2010
98
      Cool Cool
Feb 10th 2010
102
That is without question the worst scene in the movie...
Feb 09th 2010
92
If you mean this one, then of course it's without question the worst.
Feb 09th 2010
93
i was watching the hurt locker and an episode of 24 broke out
Feb 10th 2010
101
it's a fucking movie.
Feb 10th 2010
104
Wait...Hollywood gave us a movie in which they played loose w/facts and
Feb 26th 2010
110
Interesting debates here.
Feb 26th 2010
111
^true
Feb 26th 2010
114
A movie isn't perfectly accurate?
Feb 26th 2010
113
Summary article on this (swipe)
Feb 26th 2010
115
the washington post opens up the hate locker (swipe)
Feb 28th 2010
119
Great article
Mar 03rd 2010
120
the argument is that it is not a proper propaganda film?
Mar 03rd 2010
122
      i'm pretty sure that argument isn't being made
Mar 03rd 2010
123
           i wouldn't be so sure
Mar 04th 2010
125
                what does that have to do with propaganda
Mar 04th 2010
126
                     according to that statement
Mar 04th 2010
130
                          um, this isn't how propaganda works...
Mar 04th 2010
131
                               oh no?
Mar 04th 2010
132
OH SHIT SON IT'S A SWIFTBOAT VETERAN FROM PANDORA
Mar 04th 2010
124
LOL a folks who ain't served telling us how to feel about a movie based
Mar 04th 2010
127
probably also the same ones complaining about Precious
Mar 04th 2010
128
actually the complaint is YOU are trying to tell US how to feel about a ...
Mar 04th 2010
129
      actually the complaint is the academy trying to tell america
Mar 06th 2010
135
           sucks for you then
Mar 08th 2010
150
changing the filming style would change these perceptions
Mar 05th 2010
133
But...
Mar 06th 2010
134
the atlantic calls hurt locker an imposter and a fraud (swipe)
Mar 06th 2010
136
i really like this article
Mar 06th 2010
137
So, this film lives or dies
Mar 07th 2010
138
the technical inaccuracies only support the overlying criticism
Mar 07th 2010
139
academy award watcher: the hurt locker just won 6 oscars. u r mad.
Mar 07th 2010
141
nah, i'm happy
Mar 08th 2010
143
you mad!
Mar 08th 2010
144
lol @ "even adjusting for inflation"
Mar 08th 2010
145
Hahahahahaha
Mar 08th 2010
147
this film is really flawed/racist even
Mar 08th 2010
146
...
Mar 08th 2010
148
      nothing wrong with that... as long as you dont resort to a 1dimensional
Mar 08th 2010
151
           what are you talking about??
Mar 08th 2010
152
                what are YOU talking about?
Mar 09th 2010
153
I enjoyed it for what it was....a trumped up war movie
Mar 08th 2010
149
just saw it
Mar 31st 2010
154

Wrongthink
Member since Sep 29th 2006
4874 posts
Thu Feb-04-10 11:18 PM

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1. "did he think it was a documentary?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...says Wrongthink

Real talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12JJv6yCk7Q

Current Rotation:

Shad - TSOL
Onra - Long Distance
Cool Kids - Tacklebox
Shabazz Palaces

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Thu Feb-04-10 11:22 PM

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2. "REPOST: My interview with OKP Jay Doz on this exact same subject."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.examiner.com/x-15321-Jacksonville-Movie-Examiner~y2009m8d2-Inaccuracies-in-The-Hurt-Locker-Discussing-Iraq-war-films-with-an-Army-lieutenant

Enjoy.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 09:58 AM

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10. "good stuff. i'm starting to get the vets' beef with the uniforms."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

like i said, i don't care about the accuracy of the uniforms, but i can see why someone would. imagine a movie about hank aaron where he's wearing a modern-day atlanta braves uniform instead of the one he actually wore in the '60s. if you follow baseball at all, it would piss you off.

as for the narrative leaps, i could follow them to a point. i didn't know how they defused bombs in iraq, but i figured if they actually did it like renner's character, they'd run out of bomb techs quick. no way he defused 800+ like that, or whatever ridiculous number they put in his mouth. but the whole premise of the film is that that's how they do it, so if that's BS (which it is, according to both jay doz and the article i posted), then the whole film is BS. and not even great BS. judging from the responses in here, a lot of other people found the sneaking off base scenes to be blatantly not believable as well, even to us civilians.

one more thing. jay doz says that for bomb guys to go off chasing insurgents was ridiculous too. and now that he mentions it, i do remember getting the distinct feeling during that part of the film that i was watching CSI: iraq, where people with very specific jobs (like lab technicians) are suddenly handling tasks WAY outside their job description (like chasing bad guys, interrogating suspects, gathering evidence, etc). like, watching the film, i'm absolutely positive there are other people whose specific job it is to do that stuff. i do remember getting that feeling.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 11:28 AM

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14. "good shit"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Jay Doz
Member since Dec 13th 2005
8663 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 11:53 PM

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97. "haha, that article got me in so much trouble**"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

I'm 95% sure that first comment is my Brigade Commander. Needless to say, that's the *last* time I attach my standard name line.

**Okay, not really, but the folks at Public Affairs don't like seeing stuff in the media without being forewarned. Google Alert is the devil.

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Feb-10-10 12:32 AM

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99. "FOR THE RECORD I FELT BAD ABOUT IT!"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

LOL

I did get a bunch of positive feedback on the interview though. It definitely helped a lot of folks gain some new perspective on war flicks in general. So it's not all in vain, lol.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Wed Feb-10-10 12:41 AM

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100. "it was a great interview though"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

some really insightful stuff. i dug it.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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charlie bucket
Member since Dec 06th 2004
3705 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 12:26 AM

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3. "its a movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it doesnt have to be real you can make artistic decisions. if some dude didnt like it he can make his own movie.

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 12:27 AM

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4. "Aside from the inaccuracies...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

What was good about this movie?

I'll admit that the tension building was effective.

But what was the point? The theme?

I found no intellectual value in this movie. It was a purely visceral experience. It didn't stay with me in any way.

It's been said that this movie was good because it avoided any moral stance about the specific war it portrayed and I see that. I'm not looking for an 'anti-Iraq war' movie....Just looking for some resemblance of a theme. The relationships between soldiers seems to be the main focus here but very few ideas are developed.

Where's the beef? I'm underwhelmed.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43739 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 02:33 AM

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5. "The theme is pretty fucking spelled out."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

It's in the quote at the beginning.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 10:07 AM

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11. "i agree with this"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>It was a purely visceral experience. It didn't stay with me in any way.

yep, the tension in the bomb defusing scenes are great. really well acted and directed. the story behind them wasn't.

>The relationships between soldiers seems to be the main focus here but very few
>ideas are developed.

the characters didn't develop at all, either internally or with each other. they just kind of did stuff. renner's character was reckless, mackie's character was by-the-book, and that's how they were the whole film. you could argue that renner's character developed a little when he decided to defuse the bomb that was in the kid's dead body. like, he decided defusing it (and later running through the streets) was worth the risk to honor someone he cared about. but then the kid shows up alive, and he realizes none of it was worth it, and he promptly goes back to not caring. that was as much of a story arc as there was. and besides being underwhelming and somewhat action movie cliche, it was also not believable.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 01:01 PM

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15. "Considering it's up against Avatar for best picture,"
In response to Reply # 4


          


I don't know that "intellectual value" is the relevant measuring stick.

  

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OdlyGodly
Member since Dec 25th 2009
87 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 12:25 PM

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87. "Well said"
In response to Reply # 15


          

Destroy. Build Again.

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41497 posts
Sat Feb-06-10 09:56 AM

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23. "WAR IS A DRUG.... "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


>But what was the point? The theme?

they freakin spelled it out 4 u at the beginning of the flick.... reading is fundamental

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
56697 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 04:44 AM

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6. "my brother said the same thing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean he says most movies are inaccurate. But this one was ridiculous. He walked out on it.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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chief1284
Member since Nov 08th 2004
3003 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 07:41 AM

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7. "Even with zero experience of Iraq"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I could've said large portions of that film were bullshit. To be honest I look for a war film to be either entertaining or informative, preferably both. This film wasn't entertaining, and moreover it was misleading.

I really didn't like it much at all.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 08:38 AM

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8. "I don't see the point"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean.
DUH.
I can't imagine there are thousands of marines in command positions continually putting their men in harms way cause they are action junkies.

Or running through the streets of Iraq, hoodie on+glock in hand, trying to go all Punisher War Journal on the populace.

I have a feeling this is a case of a few critics saying things 'Gritty, REAL' and people getting offended as if the movie is marketing itself as a docu

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Fri Feb-05-10 10:14 AM

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12. "if you approach it as an action movie, it's enjoyable"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>I have a feeling this is a case of a few critics saying things
>'Gritty, REAL' and people getting offended as if the movie is
>marketing itself as a docu

i agree. not only did they market it as documentary-style fiction, but the film takes itself very, very seriously (which is the reason the critics did). so you'd expect the fact-checking to be top notch and the narrative to be much more "based on a true story." if they just came out and said, hey, this is die hard set in iraq and we're not trying to make a point other than to entertain you, it could have found an audience.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Melanism
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9. "moviegoers: the hurt locker is a movie (no swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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40thStreetBlack
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22. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 9


          

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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53. ""It's unrealistic as fuck. Deal with it.""
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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TheMindFrame
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55. ""And who are you?"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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13. "The reviewer never explains why the inaccuracies are important.."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-05-10 11:09 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

If the reviewer wanted to say something worthwhile he should have described how the inaccuracies are important because they misrepresent the truth. He didn't do that. Why is it important that the uniforms are wrong?

Also, my brother was in Iraq and he drank booze over there. I don't doubt in the history of the war someone snuck off base.

On another note it's probably the reviewers first experience being close to a subject depicted in a movie and he is experiencing shock that the movie doesn't jib perfectly with his experience. It would be awesome if this experience lead to the realization that most media accounts are not 100% accurate and that goes not just for films but even the news.

I witness first-hand a news story that got a lot of press and was shocked to see the difference between the truth and the news accounts. Haven't trusted completely the media since.

**********
"Play Your Game" (c) Stan Van Gundy

  

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Jon
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116. "she/her"
In response to Reply # 13


          

  

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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
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16. "it's pretty implausible"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And the implausibility reached a level where it undercut the suspense--which was the main goal of the film.

When the lead guy is like "fuck the bomb robot, I'm going in myself," the first time I think "Okay, this guy is nuts. He's going to get reprimanded after this." The fact that he continues to get away with crazy cowboy shit with no repercussions just made the film impossible to believe.

--------

hell-below.com

  

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THEdirtyone
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17. "She's pretty cute, therefore I agree with all she says"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/gi-kate2.jpg

You know, we could all be reading a book right now.

  

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DonKnutts
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18. "wasn't she in abu gharaib?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

i kid

  

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mykonsept
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20. "RE: She's pretty cute, therefore I agree with all she says"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

really?

  

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BennyTenStack
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34. "yuck"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

  

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TheMindFrame
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37. "And she's Airborne...I dig."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


She can dust my jump wings anytime.

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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Jay Doz
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43. "^^^focused"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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SoulHonky
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19. "Police officer hates most movies about cops."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I get the annoyance over "Hurt Locker" because of how people are hyping the movie and acting like it's a realistic film but, as for the film itself, it's an action movie and they are almost never realistic. I feel like that article should be aimed more at the critical reaction to the film rather than the film itself. I mean, this is from the director of Point Break. How many undercover Feds used to be high profile NCAA quarterbacks?

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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theprofessional
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21. "i heard cops love the wire though"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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chief1284
Member since Nov 08th 2004
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24. "yep yep"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

And WWII vets love Saving Private Ryan. I imagine they also like Iwo Jima.

The thing is some shows/movies represent themselves as rugged documentary types, and then it really should be accurate. So all of the above fail as shows if they're not. Hurth Locker definitely represents itself as a kinda documentary

Say, I dunno, Apocalypse Now - it never pretends to be an insightful view of the life of soldiers in Vietnam. It's more about characters and atmosphere. Although some parts more than others I agree. No Vietnam vet is gonna complain that there was no Colonel Kurtz type stuff going on. But a grunt in Iraq is gonna be pissed that a so-called insightful film is portraying engineers going on Rambo missions through Baghdad.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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SoulHonky
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28. "Coppola said, "My film is Vietnam.""
In response to Reply # 24


          

He regrets saying it now but he definitely thought he was touching something real when he made it.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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chief1284
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33. "He was as mad as Kurtz "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

during the making of that film though. Dude went off the rails, funding half of it himself.

Nevertheless, the point I really meant was that (even if the director thought otherwise) Apocalypse now couldn't be interpreted by the viewing public as a documentary of the Vietnam war, the Hurt Locker could. Along with any number of other war films. They're almost different genres really.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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BigWorm
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25. "won't this always be the case?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Unless the movie is made by all vets with other vets as consultants, and somehow everyone involved is also gifted in acting and filmmaking...

I think every movie about the military will be disliked by some military people.

  

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TheMindFrame
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Sat Feb-06-10 12:18 PM

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27. "Not really, see BlackHawk Down, SPR, Band of Brothers, Platoon"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


Full Metal Jacket. I mean, there are plenty of examples of how to get it right

>Unless the movie is made by all vets with other vets as
>consultants, and somehow everyone involved is also gifted in
>acting and filmmaking...
>
>I think every movie about the military will be disliked by
>some military people.
>
>

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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TheMindFrame
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26. "My Beef is that combat's already tenseful, suspenful and emotionally cha..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You don't need to embellish it by putting up unrealistic scenarios or having soldiers acting all kinds way that go against what actually goes on.

I mean, it's a movie set in the fucking OIF theater, does it really need to sacrifice realism for action or emotionality? (Is emotionality even a word?)

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sat Feb-06-10 12:24 PM

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29. "The Hurt Locker would never have been made."
In response to Reply # 26


          

I have no problem with making films like this; it's just when people start forgetting that it's a movie and not close to what really happens.

A realistic version of The Hurt Locker would have been watching a bot go in time and time again. The only way to make it all that interesting would be to give the bot a personality and make it a Wall-E prequel.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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TheMindFrame
Member since Jan 17th 2003
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36. "It would have been *harder* to make but it's still about the people in i..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

It's not too much to ask that if you are going to focus on the characters thoughts, motivations and actions, you at least try to be realistic about them.

>I have no problem with making films like this; it's just when
>people start forgetting that it's a movie and not close to
>what really happens.
>
>A realistic version of The Hurt Locker would have been
>watching a bot go in time and time again. The only way to make
>it all that interesting would be to give the bot a personality
>and make it a Wall-E prequel.

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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40thStreetBlack
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89. "yet you think Saving Private Ryan was realistic?"
In response to Reply # 36


          

cmon.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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TheMindFrame
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90. "Compared to the Hurt Locker? Fuck and Yes"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

>cmon.

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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Jay Doz
Member since Dec 13th 2005
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96. "i don't get why this is so hard for folks to get"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

Fictional stories can still be interesting and realistic. I mean, Platoon is highly-regarded in military circles despite the fact that it has a not-so-subtle anti-war message and the film places its characters in completely Hollywood-esque situations (Barnes fragging Elias for instance). But they got so much right. Folks aren't asking for a documentary. We're just saying the filmmakers should a little more grounded. I'm extremely willing to give passes, but I'll call a spade a spade too.

So yeah, SPR takes some liberties in the storytelling. So do FMJ, Platoon, and a plethora of other great war films. But they still manage to get it right. THL fails in that regard.

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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40thStreetBlack
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105. "cuz you're complaining THL is unrealistic but then say SPR is realistic"
In response to Reply # 96


          

I don't really see how you can say SPR was realistic, so I don't see how realism in general can be your main gripe.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Jay Doz
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109. "what makes SPR so unrealistic?"
In response to Reply # 105
Thu Feb-11-10 09:09 PM by Jay Doz

  

          

I mean, yeah, a ragtag bunch of Soldiers are assembled in the days after D-Day to conduct a random mission behind enemy lines, but that's the point. The filmmakers and writers concede in the film that it's an improbable scenario and are constantly reminding the viewers that that *isn't* the norm. THL has off the wall scenes that are neither grounded in reality, or do anything to progress the story line. WTf was the point of that sniper scene anyways?

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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121. "nope"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

maybe for people who already like war movies
but i dont

this is the only one i have liked
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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106. "give me a break."
In response to Reply # 90
Thu Feb-11-10 12:21 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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TheMindFrame
Member since Jan 17th 2003
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108. "Ok, explain"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

n/m

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sat Feb-06-10 03:43 PM

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30. "Sorry, but this is bullshit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The movie's not a fucking documentary. It's not a searing procedural about how bomb techs get down in the time of war. It's a fictional story about an adrenaline junkie who just happens to be a soldier. This "it's not accurate therefore not a good film" shit smells like negative Oscar campaigning, and whomever's doing it (and drinking the resulting Kool Aid) should really give it a fuckin' rest.

I mean, you don't have to dig the movie but to point at an article where a veteran has no clear understanding of the notion of "accuracy" vs. "dramatic license" and say, "see, this is why the movie sucks" is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets.

_________________________________________________________________________
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http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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theprofessional
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31. "no it's not"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

i don't think the main beef here is "it's not accurate therefore not a good film." (and for the record, it is a good film, just not a great one.) the main beef is that it's not believable, even within its own world, which in this case happens to be the very real setting of the iraq war in 2004. this isn't about dramatic license, this is about believability. saving private ryan, for example, took an enormous amount of dramatic license, but it was believable within its own world. the hurt locker had a guy doing incredibly reckless and flat-out stupid things that were endangering everyone around him, yet he suffered no repercussions other than getting yelled at. as you can see from this post, his actions were not believable even to people who have never been to iraq, but it was especially annoying for veterans (who also happened to notice a number of other careless inaccuracies in the film).

the other beef is that hurt locker just isn't a great story. it didn't seem to be headed anywhere and ultimately didn't go anywhere. the guy goes to iraq, defuses some bombs, defuses some more bombs, gets caught up in some side stuff, goes home, goes back to defuse more bombs. there's no narrative arc. it's got a few great action scenes and some really good ideas that i wish were in a better movie.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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TheMindFrame
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32. "^^^^Gets It^^^^"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

>i don't think the main beef here is "it's not accurate
>therefore not a good film." (and for the record, it is a good
>film, just not a great one.) the main beef is that it's not
>believable, even within its own world, which in this case
>happens to be the very real setting of the iraq war in 2004.
>this isn't about dramatic license, this is about
>believability. saving private ryan, for example, took an
>enormous amount of dramatic license, but it was believable
>within its own world. the hurt locker had a guy doing
>incredibly reckless and flat-out stupid things that were
>endangering everyone around him, yet he suffered no
>repercussions other than getting yelled at. as you can see
>from this post, his actions were not believable even to people
>who have never been to iraq, but it was especially annoying
>for veterans (who also happened to notice a number of other
>careless inaccuracies in the film).
>
>the other beef is that hurt locker just isn't a great story.
>it didn't seem to be headed anywhere and ultimately didn't go
>anywhere. the guy goes to iraq, defuses some bombs, defuses
>some more bombs, gets caught up in some side stuff, goes home,
>goes back to defuse more bombs. there's no narrative arc.
>it's got a few great action scenes and some really good ideas
>that i wish were in a better movie.

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sat Feb-06-10 10:05 PM

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35. "No"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

"Nothing happens" because the movie's really about nothing but this character, and his "addiction" to his job... again, the movie's a character study of an addiction junkie who just happens to be a soldier. The movie's not concerned with "accuracy," except to try to understand this person's behavior and the reasoning behind why he does what he does.

It's also not really concerned with "plot." Yeah, there's a countdown device detailing how many days he has left in service but the movie's not really about whether or not this guy will survive long enough to make it to the end of his term.

And to me, saying, "well, it's bad because it's not really believable" is saying the same thing as, "it's bad because it's not accurate." Same difference.

_________________________________________________________________________
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http://thepunannydiaries.com

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TheMindFrame
Member since Jan 17th 2003
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Sun Feb-07-10 10:01 AM

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38. "This is the part you are missing."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

If the movie is concerned with trying to understand the character's behavior, it fails because the behavior is completely unrealistic and irrational. For those of us who know better, that's where the movie dies, it's not about wrong uniforms and patches, it's about a movie that tries to focus on behavior and reasoning and fails to create the proper ones. OED guys are not Ranger/Sniper/Commando types who run around Baghdad by themselves. It. Does. Not. Compute.

> The movie's not concerned with
>"accuracy," except to try to understand this person's behavior
>and the reasoning behind why he does what he does.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries
>
>http://thepunannydiaries.com
>
>also on Facebook

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sun Feb-07-10 12:41 PM

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42. "No, I'm actually not missing a thing"
In response to Reply # 38
Sun Feb-07-10 12:48 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

> If the movie is concerned with trying to understand the
>character's behavior, it fails because the behavior is
>completely unrealistic and irrational.


Who says the behavior of this cat who's addicted to thrills in this setting is necessarily "rational?" And who are you to define what's rational and what isn't? And don't give me any bullshit about "because we are asked as an audience to buy into this story, and if the guy doesn't do 'rational' things that are believable, then the movie's a failure."

Y'all cats are acting like this dude was leaping over cars in his suit and eating bombs, talking about "well, that shit wasn't credible." Okay.

For some reason the closest character I can think of in comparison is Martin Riggs of the Lethal Weapon movies. Son ain't as "crazy" as Riggs is, but he's still got the same devil-may-care mentality.

This is the same argument cats use against Nancy Botwin on Weeds; they think she "gets away with" too much "unbelievable" shit, and then they also get pissy when she doesn't "suffer the consequences" of her actions.


>For those of us who
>know better, that's where the movie dies, it's not about wrong
>uniforms and patches, it's about a movie that tries to focus
>on behavior and reasoning and fails to create the proper ones.


Wait, who are you to say which behavior and reasoning is "proper?" This dude does what works for him. It may not be what works for you. That's what happens to characters in movies, they do things we wouldn't necessarily do in similar situations. That's the funny thing, you keep trying to apply what you would do (or what a real soldier would do) and because it isn't what you would do ("for those of us who know better"... really?), you say the movie's an overhyped failure. No.

It's like SoulHonky said, be mad at the critical acclaim or whatever, but to suggest that the movie's bad simply because it's not 100% "accurate," "plausible," "realistic," or whatever other word you want to try to couch it in is dishonest.

Just because it's something you (or a real soldier) wouldn't do doesn't make it implausible.


> OED guys are not Ranger/Sniper/Commando types who run around
>Baghdad by themselves. It. Does. Not. Compute.

Sure. Doesn't mean the movie's terrible.

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TheMindFrame
Member since Jan 17th 2003
4074 posts
Sun Feb-07-10 02:56 PM

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45. "Okay, Player"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


Who am I? Nobody, just a combat vet with 2 deployments on under my belt. And you would be?


>Who says the behavior of this cat who's addicted to thrills in
>this setting is necessarily "rational?" And who are you to
>define what's rational and what isn't? And don't give me any
>bullshit about "because we are asked as an audience to buy
>into this story, and if the guy doesn't do 'rational' things
>that are believable, then the movie's a failure."
>
>Y'all cats are acting like this dude was leaping over cars in
>his suit and eating bombs, talking about "well, that shit
>wasn't credible." Okay.

No, he wasn't doing that. He was running around Baghdad by himself. You stay failing to grasp this.


>>For those of us who
>>know better, that's where the movie dies, it's not about
>wrong
>>uniforms and patches, it's about a movie that tries to focus
>>on behavior and reasoning and fails to create the proper
>ones.
>

Again, miss me with the whole "what a real soldier would do" angle. I'm not the civilian talking about what real soldier would or would not do. You are.

>Wait, who are you to say which behavior and reasoning is
>"proper?" This dude does what works for him. It may not be
>what works for you. That's what happens to characters in
>movies, they do things we wouldn't necessarily do in similar
>situations. That's the funny thing, you keep trying to apply
>what you would do (or what a real soldier would do) and
>because it isn't what you would do ("for those of us who know
>better"... really?), you say the movie's an overhyped failure.
> No.
>
>It's like SoulHonky said, be mad at the critical acclaim or
>whatever, but to suggest that the movie's bad simply because
>it's not 100% "accurate," "plausible," "realistic," or
>whatever other word you want to try to couch it in is
>dishonest.
>
>Just because it's something you (or a real soldier) wouldn't
>do doesn't make it implausible.
>
>
>> OED guys are not Ranger/Sniper/Commando types who run
>around
>>Baghdad by themselves. It. Does. Not. Compute.
>
>Sure. Doesn't mean the movie's terrible.

It's unrealistic as fuck. Deal with it.

>_______________________________________________________________________
>http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries
>
>http://thepunannydiaries.com
>
>also on Facebook

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Mon Feb-08-10 02:52 AM

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49. "*salutes this post*"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Feb-08-10 03:42 PM

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57. "Look, I ain't here to disrespect soldiers"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

But let's call this shit what it really is: this post is yet another bullshit "real people" attack against The Film Critics and "Hollywood."

If you cats didn't like the movie, that's fine, but what exactly is being accomplished by presenting quotes from soldiers on Amazon.com about the film? Are these quotes supposed to somehow nullify the success of the film? Are they supposed to change people's minds about the film? Are they somehow supposed to diminish the 9 Oscar nominations and co-frontrunner status the film shares with Avatar? What exactly is this agenda supposed to accomplish?

And to answer the question as to who I am: I'm a writer-producer in this "Hollywood" shit, and I know what good stories are and what they aren't.

The Hurt Locker, despite all of its "implausibility" and "inaccuracy," is a good, well-told STORY. If it wasn't, then the rest of us civilians wouldn't have spent money to see it, the rest of us civilians (and not just the ones on the coasts, either) wouldn't have liked it, the critics that y'all hate wouldn't have praised it as much, and "Hollywood" wouldn't have rewarded it with 9 Oscar nominations. It's a good, popular film with the only realistic shot of upsetting Avatar on Oscar night.

And I guess there are no war veterans in the Academy or the general filmgoing public. *shrugs*

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http://thepunannydiaries.com

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Mon Feb-08-10 08:42 PM

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66. "wait, what success?"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

you're acting like the hurt locker has gotten ANY shine outside of hollywood. it's gotten none. it did $12 million in box office, total, and this is for a movie released in the summer. it failed with audiences and would have faded quietly had critics not picked up the baton and forced it down everyone's throat. they tend to do that with mediocre-to-good movies that they're mad no one has seen (see: an education). they overhype it to death until suddenly the hurt locker, a spotty action film posing as a realistic/gritty war drama, is one of the best films of the year and obviously deserves some awards. stop.

understand that the critic/hollywood industrial complex is in the VAST minority of people who A) have even seen the hurt locker, and B) think it's one of the best films of the year. again, outside of hollywood, the film has had no success at all and amassed a following of pretty much nobody.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Feb-08-10 10:32 PM

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71. "So you agree that you have an anti-critic agenda here."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

That's all you had to say, instead of trying to bolster your "point" by swiping an article from someone who doesn't have a clear understanding of how stories work.

Next you'll tell me that the 9 Oscar nominations are a sham as well. Lame.

Again, you didn't like the movie. That's awesome. People I know who have seen it (again, non-critics and non-filmmakers who don't live on the hipster coasts) liked the movie as well. You're trying too hard to nitpick details in the name of advancing an agenda. Perhaps it is you who should stop.

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 12:06 AM

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75. "i have an anti-mediocre films winning oscars agenda"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          


"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 12:48 AM

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77. "Well, you may be crying in your beer come March 7"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

You might want to shift to your agenda to Avatar winning Best Pic

I'm good either way

It is what it is.

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 01:25 AM

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82. "i very well may be"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

if an education, hurt locker, or up in the air win best picture, i'm opening up a salt mine.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Mar-08-10 12:20 AM

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142. "All you, dawg"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

http://www.kleenex.com/NA/Default.aspx

and some research materials just to get you started

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_mine

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TheMindFrame
Member since Jan 17th 2003
4074 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 06:56 AM

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84. "If you are going use us for your stories, at least get us right"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Respect our jobs and who we are enough to not fuck up the most basic things. Respect us enough to make us actual characters, not caricatures based on what ya'll think we are like. Is that too much to ask?

>But let's call this shit what it really is: this post is yet
>another bullshit "real people" attack against The Film Critics
>and "Hollywood."
>
>If you cats didn't like the movie, that's fine, but what
>exactly is being accomplished by presenting quotes from
>soldiers on Amazon.com about the film? Are these quotes
>supposed to somehow nullify the success of the film? Are they
>supposed to change people's minds about the film? Are they
>somehow supposed to diminish the 9 Oscar nominations and
>co-frontrunner status the film shares with Avatar? What
>exactly is this agenda supposed to accomplish?
>
>And to answer the question as to who I am: I'm a
>writer-producer in this "Hollywood" shit, and I know what good
>stories are and what they aren't.
>
>The Hurt Locker, despite all of its "implausibility" and
>"inaccuracy," is a good, well-told STORY. If it wasn't, then
>the rest of us civilians wouldn't have spent money to see it,
>the rest of us civilians (and not just the ones on the coasts,
>either) wouldn't have liked it, the critics that y'all hate
>wouldn't have praised it as much, and "Hollywood" wouldn't
>have rewarded it with 9 Oscar nominations. It's a good,
>popular film with the only realistic shot of upsetting Avatar
>on Oscar night.
>
>And I guess there are no war veterans in the Academy or the
>general filmgoing public. *shrugs*
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries
>
>http://thepunannydiaries.com
>
>also on Facebook

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 11:37 AM

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86. "Caricatures? The motherfucker was embedded with soldiers in Iraq"
In response to Reply # 84
Tue Feb-09-10 11:42 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

Jesus H. Christ, you act like Mark Boal just took John McClane and transported him to Iraq, then had Kathryn Bigelow follow him around with a handheld camera.

I mean, honestly.


wga.com

>Bombs Under Baghdad
Written by Denis Faye

Given Time recently described The Hurt Locker as “a near perfect war movie,” its adrenaline-addicted protagonist, bomb squad Army staff sergeant William James (played by Jeremy Renner) could go down as one of the silver screen’s great macho protagonists, right next to Rooster Cogburn, Snake Plisskin and Martin Riggs. The problem is, that’s not what screenwriter Mark Boal had in mind.

“I don’t think any of it was Hollywood-inspired. It was inspired by real life,” claims Boal, a veteran Rolling Stone, Playboy and The Village Voice journalist who is responsible for the article upon which Paul Haggis’ In the Valley of Elah was based. “It’s a composite of different people that I met. My source material was the reporting that I’ve done. I didn’t have a bunch of cinematic references.”

True, it’s obvious that Boal’s time as an embedded reporter in Iraq shaped The Hurt Locker, directed by Katherine Bigelow, into something special, but James’ manly antics are, at times, one eye-patch short of John Wayne. It’s something the writer only figured out in retrospect.

“Having talked to a bunch of people who know more about film than I do, I realize that, in fact, he does come from a long line of cinematic types,” he concedes. “But at the time it was just an attempt to be faithful to real life and actually present somebody that was a complicated character. Maybe on the surface, to be brimming with bravado and hubris, yet have an inner life that’s very complicated.”

Boal talked with the Writers Guild of America, West Web site recently about the importance of these inner character lives in The Hurt Locker, how journalism intersects with screenwriting, and how Paul Haggis saved him from having to apply to film school.


Does your journalism background affect the way you approach screenwriting?

It does. Journalism is all about telling a story through detail, so I took that aspect with me to screenwriting. And as a journalist, my head is oriented toward stories that are topical and relevant.


Another thing you pick up on as a journalist is capturing the dialogue, because sometimes you don’t have a tape recorder. I’ve interviewed all kinds of people and listened to different people talk from different walks of life. That professional listening you do as a journalist carries over into screenwriting when it comes time to invent characters.


So you have an innate sense of dialogue after interviewing all those people?

I don’t know. I don’t want to toot my own horn, but I think in terms of similarities between the two forms. The type of journalism that I do, which is long-form feature writing, is very detail-oriented and dialogue is very important to telling the story.


How did you feel about not being restrained by the facts as a screenwriter? Good or bad?

It was good and bad. It was in some ways really liberating and exciting to be able to invent, but at the same time, as is the case with everything, sometimes it’s easier to have fewer possibilities than unlimited possibilities.


The internal arcs of the characters seemed far more important than the outer arc of keeping bombs from exploding. Was that intentional?

Yeah. It’s a character piece sort of masquerading as an action movie.


It was inspired by your time as an embedded journalist. From all the stories you garnered from that, why was this the one you decided to tell?

That goes back to the character. I was really struck by the personalities that I met over there. I just really wanted to tell a character story that took you past the headlines of what it means to be a hero, to look at somebody who has a lot of courage and bravado and pays a price for that. That was really the starting point – starting from character more than any particular plot line. Then it became about marrying that character, or those different characters, with a through line.


Speaking of that through line, it’s not really the standard three-act structure. It felt episodic, yet you managed to tell a really compelling story without the standard conventions.

It’s the not the first war movie to be told in chapters. Apocalypse Now is told in chapters, in sort of an episodic way. And I think that war is like that in the sense that war doesn’t have a neat, little through line. I didn’t want to write one of those movies where the whole story revolved around one particular mission because I was trying to capture the daily grind of the job. It would have felt like a distasteful imposition to make it seem like there was one master terrorist and all these guys had to do was diffuse this one masterful bomb and everything would be okay. It’s not like that. It’s a tidal wave of bombs. So the structure came about in an attempt to be faithful to the reality of the situation, more than any preconceived notion that it should be three acts or four acts or episodic or something else. I think there’s nothing wrong with those kinds of (three act) movies, but there are enough of them out there, so why not try something different?

By the way, ironically, the character stuff does kind of break down into three acts. In some ways it’s hard to get around.


How do you compare this experience with In the Valley of Elah with Paul Haggis?

They were both great, but it’s apples and oranges. I worked closely with Paul. It was basically my screenwriting graduate seminar compressed into a short period of time. That was really his movie, but with The Hurt Locker, I wrote the script, I produced it with Katherine, and I’ve been involved with it every step of the creative process, from writing to set design to editing. I was enmeshed in the film.

________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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TheMindFrame
Member since Jan 17th 2003
4074 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 12:56 PM

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88. "So the fuck what!? Fucker couldn't even write soldiers who spoke"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

like soldiers. GTFOH!

>Jesus H. Christ, you act like Mark Boal just took John
>McClane and transported him to Iraq, then had Kathryn Bigelow
>follow him around with a handheld camera.
>
>I mean, honestly.
>
>
>wga.com
>
>>Bombs Under Baghdad
>Written by Denis Faye
>
>Given Time recently described The Hurt Locker as “a near
>perfect war movie,” its adrenaline-addicted protagonist, bomb
>squad Army staff sergeant William James (played by Jeremy
>Renner) could go down as one of the silver screen’s great
>macho protagonists, right next to Rooster Cogburn, Snake
>Plisskin and Martin Riggs. The problem is, that’s not what
>screenwriter Mark Boal had in mind.
>
>“I don’t think any of it was Hollywood-inspired. It was
>inspired by real life,” claims Boal, a veteran Rolling Stone,
>Playboy and The Village Voice journalist who is responsible
>for the article upon which Paul Haggis’ In the Valley of Elah
>was based. “It’s a composite of different people that I met.
>My source material was the reporting that I’ve done. I didn’t
>have a bunch of cinematic references.”
>
>True, it’s obvious that Boal’s time as an embedded reporter in
>Iraq shaped The Hurt Locker, directed by Katherine Bigelow,
>into something special, but James’ manly antics are, at times,
>one eye-patch short of John Wayne. It’s something the writer
>only figured out in retrospect.
>
>“Having talked to a bunch of people who know more about film
>than I do, I realize that, in fact, he does come from a long
>line of cinematic types,” he concedes. “But at the time it was
>just an attempt to be faithful to real life and actually
>present somebody that was a complicated character. Maybe on
>the surface, to be brimming with bravado and hubris, yet have
>an inner life that’s very complicated.”
>
>Boal talked with the Writers Guild of America, West Web site
>recently about the importance of these inner character lives
>in The Hurt Locker, how journalism intersects with
>screenwriting, and how Paul Haggis saved him from having to
>apply to film school.
>
>
>Does your journalism background affect the way you approach
>screenwriting?
>
>It does. Journalism is all about telling a story through
>detail, so I took that aspect with me to screenwriting. And as
>a journalist, my head is oriented toward stories that are
>topical and relevant.
>
>
>Another thing you pick up on as a journalist is capturing the
>dialogue, because sometimes you don’t have a tape recorder.
>I’ve interviewed all kinds of people and listened to different
>people talk from different walks of life. That professional
>listening you do as a journalist carries over into
>screenwriting when it comes time to invent characters.
>
>
>So you have an innate sense of dialogue after interviewing all
>those people?
>
>I don’t know. I don’t want to toot my own horn, but I think in
>terms of similarities between the two forms. The type of
>journalism that I do, which is long-form feature writing, is
>very detail-oriented and dialogue is very important to telling
>the story.
>
>
>How did you feel about not being restrained by the facts as a
>screenwriter? Good or bad?
>
>It was good and bad. It was in some ways really liberating and
>exciting to be able to invent, but at the same time, as is the
>case with everything, sometimes it’s easier to have fewer
>possibilities than unlimited possibilities.
>
>
>The internal arcs of the characters seemed far more important
>than the outer arc of keeping bombs from exploding. Was that
>intentional?
>
>Yeah. It’s a character piece sort of masquerading as an action
>movie.
>
>
>It was inspired by your time as an embedded journalist. From
>all the stories you garnered from that, why was this the one
>you decided to tell?
>
>That goes back to the character. I was really struck by the
>personalities that I met over there. I just really wanted to
>tell a character story that took you past the headlines of
>what it means to be a hero, to look at somebody who has a lot
>of courage and bravado and pays a price for that. That was
>really the starting point – starting from character more than
>any particular plot line. Then it became about marrying that
>character, or those different characters, with a through
>line.
>
>
>Speaking of that through line, it’s not really the standard
>three-act structure. It felt episodic, yet you managed to tell
>a really compelling story without the standard conventions.
>
>It’s the not the first war movie to be told in chapters.
>Apocalypse Now is told in chapters, in sort of an episodic
>way. And I think that war is like that in the sense that war
>doesn’t have a neat, little through line. I didn’t want to
>write one of those movies where the whole story revolved
>around one particular mission because I was trying to capture
>the daily grind of the job. It would have felt like a
>distasteful imposition to make it seem like there was one
>master terrorist and all these guys had to do was diffuse this
>one masterful bomb and everything would be okay. It’s not like
>that. It’s a tidal wave of bombs. So the structure came about
>in an attempt to be faithful to the reality of the situation,
>more than any preconceived notion that it should be three acts
>or four acts or episodic or something else. I think there’s
>nothing wrong with those kinds of (three act) movies, but
>there are enough of them out there, so why not try something
>different?
>
>By the way, ironically, the character stuff does kind of break
>down into three acts. In some ways it’s hard to get around.
>
>
>How do you compare this experience with In the Valley of Elah
>with Paul Haggis?
>
>They were both great, but it’s apples and oranges. I worked
>closely with Paul. It was basically my screenwriting graduate
>seminar compressed into a short period of time. That was
>really his movie, but with The Hurt Locker, I wrote the
>script, I produced it with Katherine, and I’ve been involved
>with it every step of the creative process, from writing to
>set design to editing. I was enmeshed in the film.
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries
>
>http://thepunannydiaries.com
>
>also on Facebook

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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chief1284
Member since Nov 08th 2004
3003 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 06:40 PM

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94. "Time said that?"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          


>Given Time recently described The Hurt Locker as “a near
>perfect war movie,”

(shaking my head)

I mean like it or loathe it, that is an embarrassing assessment of the movie. It's not even really a war movie. When journalists and critics can be this far off, I start to wonder if its worth even reading what they have to say.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
20118 posts
Fri Feb-26-10 10:08 AM

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112. "RE: Time said that?"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

yeah the critics are kinda all over the place with the way they describe this movie...one of the tv ads had a quote saying it was "the best action movie of the year"...action movie? what da hell were they watching.

still though, its a good movie and finding out that they got those things wrong about the soldiers and everything dont really sway my opinion. its like like renner was portraying the typical soldier. in the film he was regarded as reckless and dangerous by his peers. they felt the same way about him as the people criticizing the character did so its not like the film pretended this to be common-place.

  

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Mr Mech
Member since Jul 02nd 2002
8373 posts
Sun Mar-07-10 09:52 PM

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140. "Yes, it is too much to ask for a lot of artists."
In response to Reply # 84


          

Accuracy and entertainment take time and creativity to balance and that's why the results are often so rewarding. More often than not, filmmakers shuck their responsibility to creating a rewarding piece of art in favor of just getting the job done.

The result is movie audiences are often faced with this question: did the movie's subject matter deserve more time and creativity? Many filmmakers don't bother to ask when making their movies because they just want to get the job done.


Mech

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Feb-07-10 10:46 AM

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39. "Artsy fartsies are COPPIN PLEAS for how "its just fiction""
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Feb-07-10 11:07 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          


LOL @ that sissy ass plea cop, because the entire movie's
alleged goodness has to do with how "gritty" and "realistic"
it is.

The movie might as well have taken place on Pandora, because
ain't shit realistic about it, taking away its "grit" and
"realism."

Movie simply isn't that good.

It had some nice scenes but *yawn* overall

JARHEAD >>>>> THe Hurt Locker

----------------------------



O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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40. "lol you STAY going in on the avant-garde aspects of this board man "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

  

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theprofessional
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41. "yep"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>LOL @ that sissy ass plea cop, because the entire movie's
>alleged goodness has to do with how "gritty" and "realistic"
>it is.
>
>The movie might as well have taken place on Pandora, because
>ain't shit realistic about it, taking away its "grit" and
>"realism."

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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chief1284
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44. "Correct"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Even on Jarhead, and I didn't like that much either. (albeit for reasons unrelated to realism etc.)

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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hope
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46. "Let the smear campaign begin . . . "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I knew it was bound to happen. Is James Cameron behind this?

  

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PIMPINCHICAGO
Member since Mar 11th 2003
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47. "WGAF"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Next you will tell me Blair Witch wasn't accurate.

It's a damn movie.

I didn't think Training Day showed me what it really meant to be an LA cop.
Who cares?

Predator was a good Damn movie and where were the vietnam army dudes then?

Tawn bout that's not how you hunt a alien in the jungle I KNOW, I deed that - eli porter

All that matters is that people liked the movie and got to say 'Oh Shit' a few times and thats it.

The Saints won cotDamnmit enjoy life and quit bitchin about who had the most realistic fake ass fictional representation of some real ass shit.

You think Somali folk that watched Black Hawk whatever was like, Damn that shit was on point!

Or some chinese man saw platoon and said '...yep that's how it was' -but in chinese-

Hell no

Payton Manning lost

  

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chief1284
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50. "If..."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

halfway through Hurt Locker an alien came down into Baghdad and started fucking things up, I'd be "oh, it's not meant to be a gritty realistic dramatic film, it's just some fun". Think about context. If Indiana Jones or Schwarzneggar pull off the impossible, it's cool. If halfway through Schindler's List, somebody grows wings and flies out of the concentration camp, not cool.

And also, Black Hawk Down was supposed to be realistic, so if a Somalian proves its bullshit, then a lot of the effect of it is lost there too.

Nobody's saying you can't like the film, but think it should be generally acknowledged it's massively flawed for a film that's supposed to be insightful and realistic.

Stupid unrealism aside, I don't think it has many positive qualities at all, but each to his own.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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ZooTown74
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52. ""It's unrealistic as fuck. Deal with it.""
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

_________________________________________________________________________
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TheMindFrame
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54. ""And who are you?""
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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Jon
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117. "Training Day strikes me as a perfect analogy."
In response to Reply # 47


          

  

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theprofessional
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48. "another vet pulls down his pants to dump on hurt locker (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

pretty much every amazon review from a veteran hates the film, not to mention a good number of civilians. this guy spends a while pointing out all the easily correctable inaccuracies, but then moves on to this interesting explanation of just how ridiculous the rest of it is:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2G4GQ0GGII3ZB/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

All throughout the movie, the three main characters are shown to have the NOD mounting plates attached to their helmets. Yet, when they tear off on a hunt for bad guys during a night mission they run around shining flashlights, which is tactically one of the dumbest things a soldier could do.

Running around with flashlights at night is but one example of things real soldiers would not do. They would not split up "to cover more ground." An enlisted soldier would not call a colonel "colonel." He would call the colonel "sir." A soldier would not sneak out of base disguised as a civilian, hijack an Iraqi's car at gunpoint, confront an Iraqi family, then weasel his way back on base with the lame excuse he'd been to whorehouse. There would have been serious consequences to his actions. The film gives the impression that the three EOD soldiers are gun totin' cowboys who answer to no one. In reality, there would be commanding officer who would, at the least, issue operation orders and hold the NCOs to a certain level of accountability.

The characters themselves are fairly unbelievabe. They don't talk like real soldiers. I didn't hear "hooah" uttered once. Nor did I hear much of the plethora of abbreviations and acronyms that comprises the military jargon spoken by soldiers. While SSG James' two sidekicks are cardboard cut-outs of Hollywood military cliches, James himself is an erratic, irresponsible, borderline-psychopath who would not last long in the leadership of men or the diffusement of bombs. His obsession/concern for the Iraqi boy he has unrealistically befriended is completely out of character.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. On the plus side, the landscape does look like Iraq, and the urban shots replicate the appearance of Baghdad quite well. The acting is adequate, I suppose, but I was not particularly enthusiastic about any specific performance. Quite frankly, it amazes me that they would make a film this sloppy and inaccurate, when correct information is so readily available. As it is, this is not a realistic war movie; it is a fantasy with nearly as much imagination as Avatar.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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woe.is.me.
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51. "Batman wasn't accurate but I loved that shit."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Star Wars wasn't accurate but I loved that shit.
Die Hard wasn't accurate but I loved that shit.

STFU. Eat your popcorn. & Enjoy the Movie.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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ZooTown74
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56. "Enjoying the movie is not allowed."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

If you did enjoy it all that means is that you're willing to buy how "unrealistic as fuck" it was, so therefore that means you, like the critics, like bad movies

You simply can't be a person who actually enjoys well-told action stories with interesting characters; if the "realism" is off, it's bad!

_________________________________________________________________________
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http://thepunannydiaries.com

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chief1284
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60. "As I said"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

Fair enough, if you enjoyed it, good for you. I personally didn't think it was a good well told story on top of its other problems. Nevertheless you cannot say the film isn't tainted by its inaccuracy when it so blatantly tries to be gritty and realistic.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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SoulHonky
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65. "But you can."
In response to Reply # 60


          

I thought it was definitely the right style for the film. My problems were with the story itself, how it felt like a bunch of set pieces, etc.

Taken had a gritty feel to it but that film was utterly ridiculous and I loved it. Bourne has the same kind of feel to it. The style might have led people to believe that it was "realistic" but I don't think the movie really ever said that it was a true version of Iraq. It investigated adrenaline junkies (the same topic of Point Break).

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Bombastic
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91. "I haven't even seen the flick yet & can call that a horrible analogy n/m"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Feb-08-10 03:47 PM

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58. "Retired EOD responds to Hoit's complaints (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Let's see if this gets ignored in all of the "fuck the critics, plus you ain't no soldier so you don't know!" yelling going on in here...

huffingtonpost.com:

>James P. O'Neil: Retired Explosive Ordinance Detail officer

Posted: February 4, 2010 10:47 PM

The Hurt Locker: My Response to Hoit

This may be a reach but, I suspect that Ms. Kate Hoit has not discussed the film with the majority of military personnel. So it would be reasonable to say that "the inaccuracies have alienated most service members from enjoying this movie" is as big an inaccuracy as any in the movie.

I really enjoyed 'The Hurt Locker'. Contrary to Ms. Hoit's expectations, it is not a training film or documentary and I do not think it was proclaimed to be. I was an Explosive Ordinance Disposal (EOD) Tech and Officer for 18 years, continue to work and talk with EOD Techs on a daily basis (all services), have been to Afghanistan and Kuwait within the past six months, have watched the 'The Hurt Locker' with hundreds of EOD Techs in Central Florida, Washington DC , Alexandria, VA and other cities. I can tell you that the vast majority of the EOD community, that I have had contact with, has enjoyed it. Many have been interviewed and expressed that opinion in publications such as USA Today, the Politico, The Daily Beast, as well as in radio and television interviews. Do they all like it? No. However, I would say most do.

Rather than dwell on sleeves (which are frequently rolled up) or whether the uniform color is right, credit should be given for bringing the incredible challenges and stresses of IED warfare to the forefront. The filmmakers have chosen to examine extraordinary American warriors, who on a daily basis, without regard for political, religious or racial differences, willingly walk towards a violent death or life shattering injury in an effort to save another. Few other experiences in life provide a testimony to one's love for another and the passion of a profession. The film brings this extraordinary group of men and women to our attention. I am personally thankful for that.

'The Hurt Locker' takes place over a year, compressed to two hours. Every moment of it is intense. Jeremy Renner's character and personality is a composite of a dozen or so EOD techs that I know. Were we as reckless as James? Hell no. I probably would have punched him out as well. The "beyond the wire" insurgent hunt and hoodie run, may not be entirely realistic, but no one can honestly say they weren't entertained and glued to their seats during these sequences. I am sure, under Ms. Hoit's level of scrutiny, no war film including Patton, Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Top Gun, or Apocalypse Now would be enjoyable or worthy of an award. I feel she misses the point. I watched, enjoyed, ate my popcorn, and was thoroughly entertained by all of these films.

'The Hurt Locker' has done more to raise the awareness of the EOD profession than any single work to date, for which I am grateful. I appreciate Kathryn Bigelow's, Mark Boal's, and the entire team's effort and apparently so do Oscar voters. Good luck guys!!

________________________________________________________________________
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theprofessional
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67. "that guy was just happy somebody made a movie about his job"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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crow
Member since Feb 23rd 2005
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103. "I'm glad someone did"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

EOD is no joke. You should see how many of those dudes have lost limbs, died or seen others die from IED's.

Though I may not agree with the movie, I look at my Air Force EOD's who are in my squadron with me and respect em. The ones that are out with the Marines right now in Afghanistan. Their insane deployment cycles. I'd be happy to get some credit too.

__________________________________

*Note to self: Add Sig*

  

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bignick
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59. "This post is more interesting than the movie was"
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DonKnutts
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107. "ha! agreed"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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61. "Another vet pisses on Hoit (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Feb-08-10 04:10 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

muthafucka had the NERVE to ask who the FUCK I was...


huffingtonpost.com:

>James Clifford

Posted: February 8, 2010 12:38 PM

The Hurt Locker: A Vet's View

I read with interest Kate Hoit's comments about The Hurt Locker. As the military advisor to the movie, I've read countless reviews, commentaries, and criticisms of The Hurt Locker in the last 18 months or so. Until now, I haven't felt it necessary for me to respond. Her comments motivate me to change that course.

As a fellow vet (I've served 30 years in uniform, 28 of those as an EOD Soldier, and nearly four years as civilian to date) I honor Ms. Hoit's service and I'm impressed by her passion for the United States Army. She obviously knows something that only those of us who serve know; that being a Soldier is an affair of the heart. And, that is just where Ms. Hoit misses the point of The Hurt Locker.

By making a list of what she surmises to be technical errors she demonstrates that she doesn't appear to understand the points of the movie. To counter each one individually is a useless exercise that will fail to convince anyone. People will believe what they believe and no argument to the contrary is likely to sway them. Rather than do that I will only say that each item she pointed out was a conscious decision made to focus the audience's attention. Not one of her criticisms detracts from the story. On the contrary, if understood it is obvious that most of them enhance the story without damaging the realism. Additionally I offer an alternative view.

The Hurt Locker is a story of a very special group of Soldiers in a very unique situation. The war in Iraq, and increasingly the war in Afghanistan, calls for the special skills of the Explosive Ordnance Disposal Soldier, Sailor, Airman, and Marine at an unprecedented extent. The nature of these wars has never before been seen in history. Writer Mark Boal and Producer/Director Kathryn Bigelow recognized that this situation was both unique and unknown to the average American. They had the vision to bring this to the public in the form of a motion picture.

In so doing they were presented with several challenges. The Explosive Ordnance Disposal mission is highly sophisticated and purposely cloaked in secrecy in the interest of safety and security for the EOD Soldier and the country. To lift that cloak too high would have been irresponsible. EOD operators defy definition. Each is as unique as a fingerprint while at the same time possessing the highest level of courage, dedication, self confidence, and integrity. Add to that an environment saturated by improvised explosive devices planted by terrorists and insurgents that hide among the populace and you have a seemingly impossible situation and the makings of great movie, if you can pull it off. Apparently most who have seen the movie think that Kathryn and Mark have pulled it off just fine. By most accounts The Hurt Locker is a highly entertaining movie that has enlightened the public to the idea that there is a group of Soldiers standing between them and the scourge of the improvised explosive device.

I will stipulate that Ms. Hoit's points are accurate, but they amount to differences without distinctions. Her commentary demonstrates that she has the vision to see the trees but appears to lack the judgement to see the forest. She is apparently unable to tell the difference between entertainment and education. The Hurt Locker is entertainment based on real situations.

As for her assertion that The Hurt Locker has "alienated most service members from enjoying this movie" I respond that Ms. Hoit does not speak for most, or even many, service members. She speaks for herself only. I'm certain that there are many who share her opinion but I caution that there are many others who disagree. In the past many months I've spoken to or corresponded with countless active or former soldiers. Many of those are EOD soldiers and many others are not. Many are veterans of our current conflicts and many served in earlier times. Most recognize that the movie takes some artistic license but none have told me that it distracts from the movie. But, as I said, I don't speak for those soldiers. I'd rather let the words of a real EOD veteran speak for themselves. Timothy Colomer, a Marine EOD Iraq veteran, when asked by The Daily Beast how he thought The Hurt Locker portrayed EOD technicians said it "took numerous Hollywood liberties but accurately captured the sensory experience of being an EOD soldier." This Soldier gets it. Ms. Hoit does not.

________________________________________________________________________
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SoulHonky
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62. "^^^ Shiva, the God of Death"
In response to Reply # 61


          

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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theprofessional
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68. "that guy worked on the movie. wow, what a surprise he liked it."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Feb-08-10 04:17 PM

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63. "More soldier talk about The Hurt Locker (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

politico.com:

> 'Locker' opens window on Iraq

By: Jen DiMascio

July 6, 2009 04:46 AM EST

Even if, as Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) told reporters recently, “the public has lost interest in defense,” the promoters of “The Hurt Locker” are betting that summer moviegoers will root for an action flick about soldiers.

Unlike most previous films depicting Iraq, “The Hurt Locker,” which opens here Friday, stays away from politics. Instead, the story focuses on the lives of troops who had the most dangerous job around: defusing mines (improvised explosive devices) that became the No. 1 killer of soldiers in Iraq. The film uses Hitchcock-style suspense techniques to keep the tension high, but how does it fare on accuracy? And is this the new “Top Gun” for specialists in explosive ordnance disposal (EOD in military parlance)?

If so, it’s one hard sell. POLITICO watched the film with Capt. Robert Busseau, an EOD administrator, and EOD team leader Sgt. Michael Wells — both stationed at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md., and part of the 20th Army Support Command (CBRNE), which is known for handling anything that blows up.

The movie tracks a three-man team through the final days of its rotation in Iraq in 2004, just as the use of mines was increasing and teams, such as the movie’s Bravo Company, were in short supply. The three soldiers take repeated calls to investigate piles of rubble. To root out the ever-more-complex bombs, Staff Sgt. William James (Jeremy Renner) dons a bomb-blast suit and heads directly to the devices. His teammates remain on the lookout for Iraqi insurgents who could trigger a blast on a cell phone or other remote device. Director Kathryn Bigelow emphasizes the exacting patience needed by the specialists — and maximizes the element of surprise.

According to Busseau, the overall look of the film is spot on — from the village scenes, shot in Jordan using Iraqi refugees as extras, to the kids who call out “gangsta” and surround soldiers’ cars.

In the film, the EOD techs were definitely “more cowboy,” more willing to take risks than they are today, said Busseau. In real life, an EOD tech who operates like James does — clipping wires without knowing exactly what the wires are — would be blown up or fired, he said.

But it also shows the public some of the ugly ways in which insurgents have actually tried to trick American troops into approaching a bomb. In one scene, an explosive is placed in the chest of a dead child — a ploy that appeared, sadly, all too real.

The movie “takes some liberties,” said James O’Neil, the executive director of the EOD Memorial Foundation. It relies perhaps too heavily on the bomb suit, which, with its bulbous helmet, looks like antique scuba gear.

The suit itself is one of the first ways of weeding out candidates for explosive ordnance work. Even stateside, the temperature in the 80-pound getup rises pretty quickly, and it tends to close in on those prone to claustrophobia. “In Iraq, you could be in the suit for several hours per day,” Busseau said, but as the heat mounts, the suit closes in. “Guys fear they can’t breathe.”

These days, EOD teams use robots nearly all the time to neutralize explosives. In the movie, a robot makes just one fairly feeble appearance in the opening scene.

The screenwriter for the film — which takes its name from the gray box in which a team member’s personal effects are stored — was Mark Boal, who was an embedded reporter in Iraq for Playboy in 2004. He has also written the story for the message-heavy “Valley of Elah,” which earned Tommy Lee Jones an Oscar nomination.

If there’s anything that the filmmakers overemphasized, it is the aftereffects. Busseau said — with a roll of his eyes — that everyone in the film seemed to have post-traumatic stress disorder, but it’s hardly universal.

Despite any quibbles, the film is being embraced by the EOD community, which is pleased to bring some attention to its little-known heroes. The website for the Pentagon’s Joint Improvised Explosive Device Defeat Organization, the special group set up to scope out new mine-defeating technology and lead detective work in Iraq, is linking to reviews of the movie.

The EOD Memorial Foundation fielded a call from the film’s promotion department asking if it would want to use it as a draw for donations, an offer O’Neil didn’t refuse. He said the foundation sees the movie as a way to promote the sacrifice of its 4,000 specialists, whose death toll was again on the rise.

“We’ve lost close to 50 people,” O’Neil said, recalling the heroism of men like Marine Sgt. John Fry, who did have to wear the bomb suit in his attempt to save a retarded child with IEDs strapped to his chest. And those are the kinds of people who join EOD, O’Neil said. “We’re very committed to our purpose.”

After dipping to a low of six in 2008, seven have died so far this year, O’Neil said. Now that the number of blasts has declined in Iraq, it’s on the upswing in Afghanistan, and EOD teams remain in demand.

Though this film celebrates bravery and duty, the guys from the 20th Support Group don’t expect it to be a recruiting flick for explosive ordnance specialists — nor do they recommend it as pre-deployment viewing for first-timers.

What’s a better film before shipping out? “G.I. Joe,” said Wells.

_________________________________________________________________________
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http://thepunannydiaries.com

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theprofessional
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69. "patriotic puff piece, STILL filled to the brim with criticism"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

>In real life, an EOD tech who operates like James does — clipping
>wires without knowing exactly what the wires are — would be
>blown up or fired, he said.

>The movie “takes some liberties,” said James O’Neil, the
>executive director of the EOD Memorial Foundation. It relies
>perhaps too heavily on the bomb suit, which, with its bulbous
>helmet, looks like antique scuba gear.

>These days, EOD teams use robots nearly all the time to
>neutralize explosives. In the movie, a robot makes just one
>fairly feeble appearance in the opening scene.

>If there’s anything that the filmmakers overemphasized, it is
>the aftereffects. Busseau said — with a roll of his eyes —
>that everyone in the film seemed to have post-traumatic stress
>disorder, but it’s hardly universal.

>Though this film celebrates bravery and duty, the guys from
>the 20th Support Group don’t expect it to be a recruiting
>flick for explosive ordnance specialists — nor do they
>recommend it as pre-deployment viewing for first-timers.
>
>What’s a better film before shipping out? “G.I. Joe,” said
>Wells.

^^^^^^^JUST ETHERED YOUR OWN POINT. YEP, G.I. JOE BETTER!! THANK YOU, EOD TEAM LEADER SGT. WELLS, FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THIS POST! HAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAA!!!

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Jon
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118. "better film *to watch before shipping out to duty* "
In response to Reply # 69


          

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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64. "Oh, what's this? ANOTHER OED liked the movie! (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean, this cat had the fucking TEMERITY...


thedailybeast.com:

>The Real-Life Hurt Locker
by Bryan Curtis
February 2, 2010 | 10:41pm

How accurate is Kathryn Bigelow’s Best Picture nominee? Bryan Curtis talks to an ex-Marine about defusing bombs in Iraq, getting blown up, and the dangers of coming home.

On Saturday, Kathryn Bigelow became the first woman to win the Directors Guild of America’s Best Director award for her Iraq movie The Hurt Locker. The film, which has also snared nine Oscar nominations, tells the story of three Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) soldiers, who are summoned to the site of roadside bombs and then, upon arrival, must disable them with the precision of piano tuners.

Timothy Colomer, 34, was a Marine EOD soldier in Iraq in 2006 and 2007. In an interview from his home in Virginia, Colomer said The Hurt Locker took numerous Hollywood liberties but accurately captured the sensory experience of being an EOD soldier. Which is to say, it showed just how terrifying and maddening it can be to chase after bombs planted by an unseen enemy.

“I lost some height if you want to hear something crazy,” an ex-Marine said. “I was six feet tall. Now I’m five-ten.”

“It’s a flood of emotions,” Colomer said. “It’s absolutely intense. You don’t know who it is. You can’t see (the insurgents). You really distrust everybody around you. … There was fear. Pretty intense fear, actually.”

An account of Colomer’s eight months in Iraq is like The Hurt Locker without the swelling music. As the movie reveals, an EOD soldier is not just an expert bomb-defuser. He is engaged in an elaborate game of cat-and-mouse. The insurgents will sometimes plant bombs to bait an EOD team into showing up, then attack them with guns. Colomer says his team was harassed or shot at “probably about 50 or 60 percent of the time” it responded to a call. Other times, the insurgents will plant a phony bomb or weapons cache to study the EOD team’s techniques and its preferred driving routes.

That’s how Timothy Colomer suspects he got blown up.

When Colomer started EOD training in 1999, most Marines considered it a demanding but obscure job. Much of his work stateside was disposing of dynamite found in old farmhouses. But once the Iraqi insurgency adopted the improvised explosive device (IED) as its weapon of choice, EOD soldiers became as indispensible as the minesweepers were in World War II. They also became targets. Thirteen EOD soldiers were killed in 2009, said Jim O’Neil, the executive director of the EOD Memorial Foundation. Seven of them were Marines like Colomer.

“It’s an extremely risky profession,” said Mark Boal, who wrote the screenplay for The Hurt Locker, based partly on his experiences as a journalist reporting on EOD soldiers in Iraq. “Not everybody would choose to disarm bombs and be that close to death for a living.”

In Iraq, Colomer’s team spent its days waiting for calls to come in from the field, like firemen. Colomer says that, in a typical 24-hour period, his team was sent out to investigate about 10 or 15 cases.

There are a limitless number of places an insurgent could hide an IED. He could hide one in under a pile of trash. In a culvert. He could stuff it inside the carcass of a cow, a donkey, even a person. One afternoon, Colomer’s team was on a road between Fallujah and Habbaniyah called Route Michigan. They saw a dead body on the left side of the road. “Iraqi people in general aren’t obese,” Colomer said. “But this guy—I don’t mean to make light of it—was way fat. He just looked different. He had a slim face, he had very slim arms, very slim legs. But a very thick, bulbous-type torso.” There was a bright orange material visible at the point where the man’s shirt met his pants. His body was hiding a bomb.

The first rule of an EOD solider is to try and stay in your vehicle, the heavy-metal womb that protects you from explosions. So as Colomer watched, a vehicle called a buffalo, which has a fork-like device on its front end, tore at the man’s body until the bomb was revealed. Colomor and his team then used plastic explosives to literally blow up the man’s body. “It was pretty nasty to sight to behold,” he said.

Between calls, Colomer and his team enjoyed a relatively sedate life, smoking cigars and watching The Family Guy. The barracks were full of DVDs sent by well-meaning church groups—any TV show, any movie you wanted to see. (Colomer asked me to express his thanks to anyone who sent them.)

He said that by end of his tour he felt like the Iraqi insurgency was more sophisticated but simply running out of ordnance. Early in the winter of 2006, Colomer and his team crouched not far from a device that had been discovered by a river in Habbaniyah. When the device exploded, it sprayed out what looked like confetti. It turns out an insurgent had accidentally picked up a round stuffed with American “local-awareness” leaflets—the papers that tell Iraqis when the curfew is, where to get flu shots, and so forth. The insurgent had made a pro-America propaganda bomb.

On December 11, 2006, Timothy Colomer got blown up. He was riding in a 14-ton vehicle called an MRAP on a remote road surrounded by date groves. The insurgents had planted a bomb beneath that road, and it exploded directly under his seat. Colomer says the bomb was later estimated to contain 150 to 200 pounds of explosives. The explosion pushed Colomer’s vehicle a full 10 feet to the side.

Colomer was unconscious, he later learned, for 30 seconds, maybe a minute. He suffered spinal compression, and had a traumatic brain injury, slight fractures on his arms, and broken ribs. He finished out his tour behind the wire, as an EOD supervisor, and went home in April 2007. “I lost some height if you want to hear something crazy,” he said. “I was six feet tall. Now I’m five-ten.”

The Hurt Locker ends with its hero, played by Jeremy Renner, going back to Iraq on a starcrossed quest to defuse more bombs. It felt as though the filmmakers had moved away from realistic-if-enhanced script to tack on an unbelievable Hollywood ending. I told Colomer I assumed nothing like that had ever crossed his mind.

“No, it actually did, constantly, and it still does,” he said. Colomer was set to re-enlist in the Marine Corps two or three times but relented after an intervention by his wife, Samantha, and his doctor, who warned of permanent brain damage. These days, Colomer teaches young soldiers how to dismantle IEDs, which he says provides enough of an outlet, barely, to keep him from going back to Iraq.

“I hear all the time about guys I know, who are personal friends of mine, who are injured or killed by the same insurgency that I was fighting. You never feel like you did enough.”

He added, “I keep my blood thinned with rage and coffee right now.”

The scenes from The Hurt Locker that struck Colomer as the most relatable were those showing an EOD soldier struggling to adjust to life back home: a man learning to walk freely down the street after being in a place where danger lurks under every pile of trash.

“It was amazing, because I was still in that state of mind for…you know what? I still haven’t 100 percent gotten over it. For a good six months to a year, driving along the road, I was eyeballing things on the side of the road.”

“I’d drive around certain things—piles of garbage, maybe a car that was stopped.”

“I still have trust issues with large crowds of people because I can’t control them. You go to Walmart right before Christmas, normal people want to rip their hair out.”

“I want to rip my hair out because I don’t trust anybody around me.”

Colomer added, “I’ve got this feeling in the back of my head that somebody wants to kill me.”

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

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theprofessional
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70. "hurt locker fails at box office, grosses $12 mil in five months (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=hurtlocker.htm

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Feb-08-10 11:08 PM

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73. "*scrolls down to see "Widest Release: 535 theatres"*"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

Oop

But you right, this movie "failed"

FLOP! FAIL! CRITIC! HIPSTER!

And one more time, with feeling: fuck the critics and professional moviemaking organizations yo, they don't know shit about storytelling and shit, the real people and the soldiers of the world know this movie sucked ass, and therefore it "failed" at the box office

Wait, you know what, I'll even help you out with some Nikki Finke:

>Then I keep hearing from studio execs what little money Kathryn Bigelow's The Hurt Locker and Clint Eastwood's Invictus have made, and how that should prevent both films from winning Best Picture. This falls under the badmouthing category known as "Oscar voters don't want to look out of touch with moviegoers". Size does matter when it comes to box office, but that's something Academy Motion Picture Arts & Sciences members ignore with ridiculous regularity. Sometimes it seems they purposely vote for the little known pics just to fuck with Hollywood's head. For the record, Summit Entertainment's drama hasn't made much money since its release June 26th: domestic $12,671,105, foreign $3,436,487, worldwide $16,107,592. But it's still very much an Oscar-worthy film.

*compares the last number to the Box Office Mojo Production Budget number (which isn't exactly the right way to judge its success or "failure," but hey, when in Rome, right?...)*...

Hmm...

But but but it only made $13.4 mil (not 12) on a maximum 535 screens... FAIL! IN YOUR TEH FACE, CRITICS! "Real people" don't have any interest in this movie at all... no way...

http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/rentals

Wait, what's that at #4? And what's that number that I see in the "Prev Rank" column? ZOMG nobody gives a SHIT about this overrated CRITIC FAIL movie HIPSTER FAIL!

Wait, here's some more (recent) Nikki Finke:

>Meanwhile, Summit Entertainment worked with exhibitors who wanted to run The Hurt Locker after it was nominated for a Best Picture Oscar. This, in spite of the fact that the DVD has been selling quite well since January 12th. The weekend estimate was $123K (+439%) playing at 110 theaters (+72). Its North American cume to date is now $13.4M.

YEAH! SUCK IT HIPSTER CRITICS AND SELLOUT SOLDIERS!

Plus, this is the film that has the best shot at beating Avatar for Best Picture. But who cares, right, it's "unrealistic as fuck" and it's got soldiers in its pocket so therefore it's overrated and wack plus it "failed" at the box office. Okay.

Keep moving the goalposts as you see fit ("it sucked!" "the critics overrated it!" "soldiers don't like it!" "it's not accurate!" "no, it's not about it not being accurate, it's just UNREALISTIC... as fuck!" "soldiers are being paid to like it!" "it failed at the box office... even though it's going to make its money back!"), and I'll continue shooting the shit down...

_________________________________________________________________________
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http://thepunannydiaries.com

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theprofessional
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Tue Feb-09-10 12:47 AM

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76. "535 theaters in five months = FAILED to find an audience"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

to contrast, paranormal activity, a film that was made with a handicam and $15,000 eventually found its way into 2,700 theaters. that's not to say PA was better than hurt locker, but it is to say that no matter how low budget a film is, if it connects with audiences it will get opened on more and more screens. hurt locker did great on a handful of screens in L.A., got a wider release and failed. that's why it only made it to 535. again, nobody outside of hollywood cares about hurt locker. it has no significant following whatsoever outside of hollywood critics and insiders. it can't even find a steady audience among veterans because it's so sloppy and unbelievable. this would be like obama not being able to get votes on the south side of chicago. L.

you're pointing out the fact that hurt locker is 4th in dvd rentals right now like that's some kind of success. dawg, in the last month, it's gotten a TON of press, a TON of awards, it's nominated for best picture and eight other academy awards. it is arguably the IT movie of the moment, the david to avatar's goliath. and the best it can do in its second week of DVD release is FOURTH?! yep, fourth. behind surrogates, whip it, and gamer. GAMER, dawg. remind me again, are you arguing for or against this movie? there is zero way to spin this. you can argue for the artistic merits of hurt locker, but it has been an unmitigated FLOP by any and every measure.

as for the myth that the academy ignores box office and votes for little known films... oh, wait, turns out they never do that:

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=500740&mesg_id=500740&listing_type=search#501101

"the last best picture winner to make less than $50 million was the last emperor in 1987 ($43.9 mil). before that, it was the deer hunter in 1978 ($49.0 mil)." google it.

if hurt locker wins best picture, it will be the least successful film to do so since, what, the silent era? this is a film that has performed so poorly at the box office, that you and nikki finke consider a $123K weekend (K as in thousand, not million) to be a positive. there are people-- individual people-- who made more than $123K last weekend. YOU LOSE.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 12:56 AM

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78. "Yeah, great, awesome"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

I ain't readin' all of that

Your agenda is dying out, and you're grasping at straws at this point

And since you want to bring up Paranormal Activity (which I caught out the corner of my eye), this movie had NOWHERE NEAR the hype and promotion for it as Paranormal Activity (a movie which I, if you recall, championed after a promotional midnight screening)... that's a really bad card to play, slim... Hurt Locker didn't have promotional screenings, didn't have internet campaigns, didn't have ZOMG word-of-mouth Tweets or Facebook posts...

So, yeah. You can keep on crying about this shit, keep scanning the depths of the internet for anti-Hurt Locker "soldier reviews" (I mean, amazon.com, b? REALLY?), but the bottom line is the movie's good, and you're irrationally angry that the movie is still getting praise (from critics, viewers, and soldiers), and gaining viewers on DVD, and will make its money back.

Go salute THAT.

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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theprofessional
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Tue Feb-09-10 01:19 AM

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80. ""i ain't readin' all that" = i just got dipped in hot lava"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

and i'd rather discuss some made up straw man argument about something i caught "out of the corner of my eye" (because, remember, i didn't read all that, uh-huh), than acknowledge the enormous L i just took.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Tue Feb-09-10 01:23 AM

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81. "Oh"
In response to Reply # 80
Tue Feb-09-10 01:28 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

You're still grasping

You would think you would have learned from Rjcc showing his ass in that Avatar post

But I guess not

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
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Mon Feb-08-10 10:47 PM

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72. "lol @ theprofessional."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you're really mad that people like this film.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Feb-08-10 11:09 PM

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74. "And ironically enough, we're on the same side when it comes to Avatar"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

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theprofessional
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Tue Feb-09-10 01:14 AM

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79. "no, i'm mad that people don't like this film"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

as in, almost no one has seen this film, and the reviews of people who have seen it are mixed, yet it's gonna win best picture anyway thanks entirely to the self-important hollywood film critic lobby. let's just be real. this is all about the "shock" of a female director making a good war movie and someone finally making an iraq war movie that doesn't suck. this is also about hollywood's pathetic desperation to latch onto current event films in order to validate its own relevance (see: recession, up in the air). but outside of that, the hurt locker on its own merits is nowhere near deserving of the amount of acclaim it's getting.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Feb-09-10 01:59 AM

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83. "LOL @ y'all pussy niggas mad that your favorite movie sucks"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          


Take the criticism like a man

The movie is dog doo

deal with it

----------------------------



O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.


"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

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chief1284
Member since Nov 08th 2004
3003 posts
Tue Feb-09-10 08:02 AM

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85. "On a vaguely related note"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I wanna hear what the soldiers in here thought of Generation Kill. Ok, perhaps some of you weren't in the invasion, and probably none of you are recon marines. But still, how do you find the general realism?

From an outside perspective, I would guess is the best interpretation of Iraq, and at least of the way soldiers behave and talk to each other. Fine its not a film, but it may as well be.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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Jay Doz
Member since Dec 13th 2005
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Tue Feb-09-10 11:27 PM

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95. "i loved Generation Kill"
In response to Reply # 85
Tue Feb-09-10 11:27 PM by Jay Doz

  

          

Marine jargon is grating though.

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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TheMindFrame
Member since Jan 17th 2003
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Wed Feb-10-10 12:11 AM

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98. "That show was tight as fuck"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          


I can drop whatever I'm doing to watch an episode.
>Marine jargon is grating though.

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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chief1284
Member since Nov 08th 2004
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Wed Feb-10-10 04:19 AM

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102. "Cool Cool"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

That's good to hear. This helps solidify it for me as the best recent war interpretation on film. Although having said that I just remembered Iwo Jima. Well it's the best Iraq War film/show.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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blue23
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Tue Feb-09-10 02:28 PM

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92. "That is without question the worst scene in the movie..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

n/m

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Feb-09-10 02:41 PM

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93. "If you mean this one, then of course it's without question the worst."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

And while I'm willing to ignore some unrealistic things in the movie's attempts to build tension, this was just a laughable turn. I liked the movie... but come the fuck on.

"James forces a merchant, for whom Beckham works at Camp Victory, to drive him to Beckham's house (James believes Beckham has been killed and gutted to fit an unexploded bomb inside of his body). James makes his way to Beckham's house and demands to know what exactly happened to Beckham. Well, he never finds out because he is kicked out. James ride has left him and he has no other chose but to run back to Camp Victory. Throwing up the hood of the sweatshirt, he runs through the streets of Baghdad. While I watched that scene I automatically thought, there isn't a soldier in the world who would leave their base and run through Baghdad unless they were trying to commit suicide. I laughed out loud in the theater, like, could anyone actually believe this. When James finally reaches Camp Victory, a sympathetic soldier on guard duty lets him on base. So, let me get this straight. We have an American soldier running through Iraq in a hooded sweatshirt, trying to find out what happened to a kid who sold bootleg movies, and a sweet soldier who just let's James waltz on base? Bravo Hollywood; that was pure magical bullshit."

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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theprofessional
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Wed Feb-10-10 12:42 AM

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101. "i was watching the hurt locker and an episode of 24 broke out"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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jetblack
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Wed Feb-10-10 09:47 AM

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104. "it's a fucking movie."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

:)

carry on.

---
Stoicism and chill.
---
Stay +.
---

  

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mcdeezjawns
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Fri Feb-26-10 04:24 AM

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110. "Wait...Hollywood gave us a movie in which they played loose w/facts and "
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-26-10 04:25 AM by mcdeezjawns

  

          

changed parts of the story in order to make a movie more appealing and interesting/exciting?!?!?!?!?

AND the clothes weren't dead on?

FUCK ME SIDEWAYS!

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Fri Feb-26-10 08:58 AM

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111. "Interesting debates here."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Personally, I thought the movie was all meathead with no theme/idea behind it. I don't think it'll look good to anyone in 10 years. But that's not my point.

The critiques based on realism.....I wonder if that's because it's about a current war instead of a past one. Alot of movies appreciated here were made in the late 70's/80's and were about Vietnam....Deer Hunter, Platoon, Full Metal Jacket.

None of these movies struck me as being realistic either. In fact...I'd say they were more outlandish than the Hurt Locker. (especially FMJ) Deer Hunter could be accused of demonizing the Vietnamese....the russian roulette culture was an invention....one that begs for artistic license. Platoon had simple characters that were clearly and simply, GOOD or BAD...such lines that one could argue are never so simple in war. Full Metal Jacket obviously doesn't even attempt to be realistic in it's masterful meditation on the psychology and absurdity of war.

Perhaps movies about Iraq have an added responsibility to be more realistic because they are made at the same time as the war itself?

A real question. Maybe it's too soon to make a fictional account of something that's still happening? This is more interesting than the movie to me.

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Fri Feb-26-10 01:28 PM

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114. "^true"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>Personally, I thought the movie was all meathead with no
>theme/idea behind it. I don't think it'll look good to anyone
>in 10 years. But that's not my point.
>
>The critiques based on realism.....I wonder if that's because
>it's about a current war instead of a past one. Alot of
>movies appreciated here were made in the late 70's/80's and
>were about Vietnam....Deer Hunter, Platoon, Full Metal
>Jacket.
>
>None of these movies struck me as being realistic either. In
>fact...I'd say they were more outlandish than the Hurt Locker.
> (especially FMJ) Deer Hunter could be accused of demonizing
>the Vietnamese....the russian roulette culture was an
>invention....one that begs for artistic license. Platoon had
>simple characters that were clearly and simply, GOOD or
>BAD...such lines that one could argue are never so simple in
>war. Full Metal Jacket obviously doesn't even attempt to be
>realistic in it's masterful meditation on the psychology and
>absurdity of war.
>
>Perhaps movies about Iraq have an added responsibility to be
>more realistic because they are made at the same time as the
>war itself?
>
>A real question. Maybe it's too soon to make a fictional
>account of something that's still happening? This is more
>interesting than the movie to me.
>
>

  

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cantball
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Fri Feb-26-10 10:27 AM

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113. "A movie isn't perfectly accurate?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And a woman has a wrong opinion?

COLOR ME FUCKING SHOCKED
____________________


Quarterback
Winner
Hero

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Feb-26-10 01:50 PM

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115. "Summary article on this (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

latimes.com/business/la-et-hurt-locker26-2010feb26,0,6078776.story
latimes.com

>'The Hurt Locker' sets off conflict

Some soldiers and veterans say the movie, a favorite for the best picture Oscar, portrays them as renegades and doesn't depict combat accurately. But film critics have praised its authenticity.

By Julian E. Barnes Ned Parker and John Horn

7:45 PM PST, February 25, 2010

Reporting from Baghdad, Los Angeles and Washington

Many film critics -- and awards voters -- have praised “The Hurt Locker’s” depiction of the U.S. military in Iraq, often singling out the bomb disposal drama for its authenticity. But as the film emerges as a favorite to win the best picture Oscar, a number of active soldiers and veterans say the film is Hollywood hokum, portraying soldiers as renegades while failing to represent details about combat accurately.

The criticism, coming just before Oscar ballots are due Tuesday, highlights the delicate relationship between "The Hurt Locker" and the nation's armed forces. Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates says the film is "authentic" and "very compelling" and has recommended it to his staff. But the government says it pulled its "Hurt Locker" production assistance at the last minute in 2007, saying that the film's makers were shooting scenes that weren't in the screenplay submitted to the Defense Department, including a sequence that the government believed portrayed troops unflatteringly. The film's producers dispute elements of the account.

Although "The Hurt Locker" has numerous supporters within the military -- including Purple Heart winner Drew Sloan, who participated in a "Hurt Locker" panel discussion in Hollywood with other veterans and the film's makers Wednesday night -- the movie's detractors share a consistent complaint about its representation of the Army's Explosive Ordnance Disposal team as they attempt to disarm improvised explosive devices.

The film, directed by Kathryn Bigelow and written by journalist Mark Boal (who was embedded with a bomb disposal team), stars Jeremy Renner as Staff Sgt. William James. Not deterred by protocol or his own safety, James is an adrenaline-addicted bomb defuser who occasionally puts his unit at risk, and at one point takes to the streets of Baghdad on a solo personal mission. Members of EOD teams in southern Iraq said in interviews arranged by the Army that "The Hurt Locker" is a good action movie if you know nothing about defusing roadside bombs or the military.

Sgt. Eric Gordon of San Pedro, an Air Force EOD technician on his second tour in Iraq, has watched the movie a few times with his friends. "I would watch it with other EOD people, and we would laugh," Gordon said.

He scoffed at a scene in which a bomb is defused with wire cutters. "It's similar to having a firefighter go into a building with a squirt bottle," Gordon said.

An EOD team leader in Maysan province, Staff Sgt. Jeremy D. Phillips, said, "My interest is bringing myself and my team members home alive, with all of our appendages in the right place."

Although he was glad the film highlighted their trade, he disliked the celluloid treatment of EOD units. "There is too much John Wayne and cowboy stuff. It is very loosely based on actual events," he said. "I'm honestly glad they are trying to convey to the public what we've been doing, and I wish maybe they had just done it with a little bit of a different spin on it," he said.

Others are more supportive. Sloan, a former U.S. Army captain, said at the panel discussion that "The Hurt Locker" offered a perfect snapshot of modern conflict. "This is what's going on for the men and women who are fighting this war," he said.

Jim O'Neil, the executive director of the EOD Memorial, which honors those killed defusing bombs, was equally enthusiastic about the film's accuracy. "It's not just a movie," he said at the panel discussion. "It's something that's actually occurring as we're sitting in these chairs."

Some recent veterans, however, disagreed. "The depiction of our community in this film is disrespectful," said Paul Rieckhoff, the executive director and founder of the 150,000-member Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. "We are not cowboys. We are not reckless. We are professionals. And a lot of the film would make you think the opposite."

"I didn't really care for it," said Brian Siefkes, who served in Iraq and plays an Army soldier in the upcoming movie "The Green Zone." "There were many moments where I felt they were trying to portray the actual life of EOD in Iraq but over-sensationalized it," he said.

Boal, who also produced "The Hurt Locker," said the film was not intended to be a documentary or a training film. "We certainly made creative choices for dramatic effect," he said. "But I hope the choices were made respectfully and conscientiously."

At one point, "The Hurt Locker" might have been made with government cooperation. But just 12 hours before Lt. Col. J. Todd Breasseale was to fly to Jordan to serve as the Army's technical advisor to "The Hurt Locker," he said in an interview that he heard there might be problems. A Jordanian official told him that scenes were being shot that were not in the script that the Army had approved. Breasseale accused the producer of shooting a scene in which soldiers act violently toward detainees. (The military does not provide help to films depicting violations of the laws of war, unless their consequences are shown.) He also charged that the production had driven a Humvee into a Palestinian refugee camp in order to film angry crowd scenes.

"Nice working with you," Breasseale said he recalled telling a producer before the military decided to stop working with the production. "Kathryn has a lot of talent, but I cannot trust that your company will honor its contract to the soldiers and government of the U.S." Breasseale said the filmmakers had been solicitous of the Army's opinion, "trying to get the look and feel right," and they had been allowed to film at an Army logistics base in Kuwait. Breasseale, who is now deployed, saw "The Hurt Locker" on a laptop in Afghanistan along with a soldier from one of the Army's EOD teams. He conceded it was a great story and a "spectacular looking movie. But if you're looking for realism and how military relationships really work, I believe she missed the mark," Breasseale said of Bigelow.

Others in the Pentagon's office overseeing work with Hollywood agree. "The filmmakers' interest in drama and excitement exceeded what we felt were reasonable realistic portrayals," said Philip M. Strub, the Pentagon's special assistant for entertainment media.

Boal said that while the production initially worked with the U.S. military, it parted ways when it became clear they would not approve of "The Hurt Locker's" script. He said the producers did not film on a base in Kuwait and never signed a contract.

"The Department of Defense did not support the movie. And my understanding is that they did not support 'Platoon' or 'The Deer Hunter,' " Boal said of two of the most revered movies about the Vietnam War. "I am OK with that outcome because I didn't want to change the script to suit them."

The top Pentagon official, Gates, has a very positive view of the movie. "This is the first Iraq war movie that he has liked, or for that matter seen," said Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell. "In looking at all previous films he thought they had too much of a political agenda.

"He just thought it was a very compelling, and what he thought was authentic, portrayal of what life is like for many of our troops in Iraq. Of the films that have been done about this war, that is the most authentic."

_________________________________________________________________________
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theprofessional
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Sun Feb-28-10 02:08 PM

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119. "the washington post opens up the hate locker (swipe)"
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the hurt locker "oh, wait, this movie isn't that good" campaign continues. money quote: "James is as much cowboy as soldier, and vets fear he could become an iconic figure in the American imagination should the movie win a bunch of statues. 'Films, almost more than anything, will be the way Americans understand our war,' Rieckhoff said. 'So we feel that there is a responsibility for filmmakers to portray our war accurately. We see ourselves as watchdogs. ... When he puts a hood on like Eminem and starts roving outside the wire, it's ridiculous.'"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/25/AR2010022506161.html?hpid=topnews

Some Iraq, Afghanistan war veterans criticize movie 'Hurt Locker' as inaccurate
By Christian Davenport
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 28, 2010

Time magazine called "The Hurt Locker" "a near-perfect war film," but Ryan Gallucci, an Iraq war veteran, had to turn the movie off three times, he says, "or else I would have thrown my remote through the television."

Critics adore the film and it has been nominated for nine Oscars -- a feat matched only by "Avatar," the top-grossing movie of all time -- but Paul Rieckhoff, founder of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, says that's "nine more Oscar nominations than it deserves. I don't know why critics love this silly, inaccurate film so much," he wrote on his Facebook page.

Many in the military say "Hurt Locker" is plagued by unforgivable inaccuracies that make the most critically acclaimed Iraq war film to date more a Hollywood fantasy than the searingly realistic rendition that civilians take it for.

To which you might say: It's just a movie and an action flick at that. It's Tinseltown fiction -- an interpretation of war such as "Full Metal Jacket" or "Apocalypse Now." It's supposed to entertain. It's not a documentary, not real life.

But to those who were there, Iraq is real life. And they're very sensitive -- some would say overly so -- when their war is portrayed via a central character who is a reckless rogue.

Hence a rising backlash from people in uniform, such as this response on Rieckhoff's Facebook page from a self-identified Army Airborne Ranger:

"f this movie was based on a war that never existed, I would have nothing to comment about. This movie is not based on a true story, but on a true war, a war in which I have seen my friends killed, a war in which I witnessed my ranger buddy get both his legs blown off. So for Hollywood to glorify this crap is a huge slap in the face to every soldier who's been on the front line."

Even Brian Williams, the NBC News anchor, took a shot on his blog, writing a post titled, "The Hurt Locker: Hurting for a fact-checker." The movie's positive reviews could not have been "written by anyone who had spent any time with U.S. armed forces in Iraq," he wrote, wondering why none of the soldiers in the movie dipped smokeless tobacco or said "hoo-ah" -- "the universal term for hello, goodbye, understood, etc."

'Reckless' character

In an interview, Rieckhoff said the anger about "Hurt Locker" stems not so much from such small inaccuracies -- for example, the uniforms the soldiers wear in the film weren't available until well after the time the story took place -- but rather from the depiction of the main character, Sgt. 1st Class William James.

Portrayed by Jeremy Renner, who's nominated for Best Actor, James is a daredevil who in one scene takes off his protective armor while disarming a bomb because, as he says, "If I'm going to die, I'm going to be comfortable." He runs alone through the streets of Baghdad with his sweat shirt hood up like a gangster. Later, he takes two soldiers hunting for insurgents in Baghdad's back alleys without any backup.

James's fellow soldiers are, or try to be, by-the-book professionals. They call James "rowdy" and "reckless," and one worries out loud that his leader's crazy antics are "going to get me killed." James is as much cowboy as soldier, and vets fear he could become an iconic figure in the American imagination should the movie win a bunch of statues.

"Films, almost more than anything, will be the way Americans understand our war," Rieckhoff said. "So we feel that there is a responsibility for filmmakers to portray our war accurately. We see ourselves as watchdogs. . . . When he puts a hood on like Eminem and starts roving outside the wire, it's ridiculous."

Gallucci, a former sergeant who served in Iraq from 2003 to 2004, says he kept hoping James would get "blown up throughout the entire movie. I wanted to see his poor teammates get another team leader, who was actually concerned about their safety."

'Dramatic effect'

Mark Boal, the film's screenwriter, knows the soldiers in the film are wearing the wrong uniform. He was embedded in Iraq with an Explosive Ordnance Disposal team in 2004, and he's aware of what soldiers wore. Boal has worked as a journalist -- an article he wrote for Playboy became the basis for the 2007 film "In the Valley of Elah," about an Iraq war veteran who is murdered upon returning home -- and he feels a duty to hew as close to possible to the truth.

But "The Hurt Locker" is a movie, not a magazine article, Boal says, and screenwriters need ample artistic license to build a compelling -- and true -- story. So when he chose to have the film's soldiers wear the current Army uniform rather than the one they wore in 2004, it's to allow his audience "to relate to the imagery they saw on the news."

Yes, he had military consultants help him get details of radio protocol and uniforms right, but he never felt obliged to be precisely accurate. The consultants, Boal says, give a writer the information he needs so that "when you do choose to make a dramatic effect, do it in a way that is not totally embarrassing."

The arc of the narrative, he says, has to come from the writer. "The story came out of my imagination based on my life experience and hundreds of conversations I've had with soldiers.

"I definitely tried for dramatic effect to make artistic choices, but I hope I made them respectfully and carefully and with the goal of not making a training video or a documentary, but showing just how hellish this war is. I was also aware, by the way, that there are many wonderful documentaries on Iraq and many wonderful articles, which no one has seen. And quite frankly, I was hoping that people would see the film."

Art vs. reality

Each writer's search for truth lands at a different point on the spectrum between art and reality. When screenwriter David Simon made the series "Generation Kill" for HBO, he considered it more important to have Marines find his work an accurate portrayal of their culture and experience invading Iraq than to win critical acclaim. "The real fun isn't trying to convince the average viewer" that we have it right, he told the Marine Corps Times. "It's trying to convince people who have been in the game."

Boal not only wanted to tell a riveting and important story, but also to raise awareness about soldiers who disarm bombs, a specialty known as explosive ordnance disposal, which he believed the general public knew little about, even though hidden bombs are the leading cause of casualties in Iraq.

As a result, despite some complaints about inaccuracies, many veterans of bomb disposal units love the movie, says James O'Neil, executive director of the EOD Memorial Foundation, a nonprofit that has benefited financially from the film.

"While there is some artistic license," O'Neil says, "there's a lot of good representation of the intensity and the courage that's displayed by EOD techs. What it takes to find, identify and then render safe those -- that's a story, and it's an incredible story."

Filmmakers always worry that productions that servicemembers see as spot-on might leave general audiences cold. So: Is it really important that a war movie be accurate?

No, says David McKenna, a film professor at Columbia University. "Hurt Locker," he argues, isn't as much about Iraq as it is about one soldier's addiction to war. It's a character study, an exploration of courage, bravado and leadership told through "a series of suspenseful situations. I suppose it could have just as easily been set in outer space."

If veterans don't like it, McKenna says, "well, this is an opportunity to go make your own movie."

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Wed Mar-03-10 02:31 AM

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120. "Great article"
In response to Reply # 119


          

I really respected what Ryan Galluci said. Basically, this movie is patronizing to him because it congratulates him for something he DIDN'T do. Thereby ignoring what he DID do.

The Hurt Locker is a throwback war-hero movie. It depicts a protaganist that is righteous, pure and powerful. The protaganist is like an angel...able to execute his sense of morality when and where he chooses to. He knows right from wrong...but also has the power to act upon his feelings. Fantasy-land.

I can imagine this type of war-hero tribute to be frusterating for someone who's experienced the ambiguity and complexity that exists in real world situations.

I'm convinced now. This movie is exploitive.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Wed Mar-03-10 10:43 PM

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122. "the argument is that it is not a proper propaganda film?"
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that's a fucked up argument

so any and every movie
any and every story
about war need to be absolutely accurate?
so that the minds of the viewers can be properly controlled
from the people who have been to war's pov?

what the fuck kind of argument is that?

we live in a fucking police state
and cops don't get up in arms about their pov like this
and you can't put a cop in prison for any damn thing
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Jay Doz
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Wed Mar-03-10 11:59 PM

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123. "i'm pretty sure that argument isn't being made"
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butgo'onwichobadself

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Thu Mar-04-10 11:10 AM

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125. "i wouldn't be so sure"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

"And they're very sensitive -- some would say overly so -- when their war is portrayed via a central character who is a reckless rogue."



my answer to this is
and?
yes they are being overly sensitive
once again it IS a movie
to try to make it into something else,(oh i dunno to influence viewer towards a specific cause) which is what they are doing, is attempting propaganda
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Jay Doz
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Thu Mar-04-10 08:19 PM

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126. "what does that have to do with propaganda"
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-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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lfresh
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Thu Mar-04-10 09:56 PM

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130. "according to that statement"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

apparently war should only be portrayed in a very specific way
from a specific POV

that sentence addresses the iraq war specifically and a specific POV

propaganda deals with portraying a POV very specifically for influenced reactions
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Jay Doz
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Thu Mar-04-10 10:14 PM

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131. "um, this isn't how propaganda works..."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Thu Mar-04-10 11:05 PM

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132. "oh no?"
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you tell me then
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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al_sharp
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Thu Mar-04-10 01:49 AM

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124. "OH SHIT SON IT'S A SWIFTBOAT VETERAN FROM PANDORA"
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avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

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TheMindFrame
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Thu Mar-04-10 08:52 PM

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127. "LOL a folks who ain't served telling us how to feel about a movie based"
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on a war we actually fought. SMH. Amazing.

Sua Sponte

Tuam Sequere Naturam


A story: A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a

  

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Jay Doz
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Thu Mar-04-10 09:25 PM

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128. "probably also the same ones complaining about Precious"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Thu Mar-04-10 09:52 PM

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129. "actually the complaint is YOU are trying to tell US how to feel about a ..."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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theprofessional
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Sat Mar-06-10 03:08 PM

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135. "actually the complaint is the academy trying to tell america"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

that a film that couldn't break $15 million in box office or find an audience on dvd (even *after* the awards started rolling in), a film that no one outside of the movie industry cares about or is pulling for, a film that is being laughed at and pissed on by the very soldiers it seeks to portray, was the best movie of 2009.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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lfresh
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Mon Mar-08-10 02:32 PM

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150. "sucks for you then"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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ZioN
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Fri Mar-05-10 07:39 PM

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133. "changing the filming style would change these perceptions"
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because the film looks like a documentary at some points means people think it is portraying something real and accurate. No. It is a movie that is manipulating a camera style to mimic various things. That is all.


All movies are unrealistic. They are movies. Stories told in two hours or less.

People get too precious around this war shit. It's a movie, get over it.

---

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Sat Mar-06-10 04:16 AM

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134. "But..."
In response to Reply # 133
Sat Mar-06-10 04:33 AM by denny

          

The realness, grittiness, etc is what the movie IS about.

It's a visceral movie...the experience of seeing it IS the content. Not much to talk about, not much to think about. The aim is to give you an 'experience'. To increase your heart-rate...to make you nervous....to make you afraid.

It's clear to me that this is the goal of the movie. And perhaps, with this being the goal, the movie has a greater responsibility to be realistic than something like 'Full Metal Jacket'.

FMJ is a philosophical movie with an emphasis on ideas and themes. Lots to think about, lots to talk about. This is why it's granted artistic license. THL has a different criteria or else it becomes exploitation like old war-hero movies. And I think I nailed it there....THL is just an old war-hero movie. Nothing more.

I don't think an American military man could critisize FMJ with any authority like they do THL. In the first half of FMJ, Kubrick uses the American military as a device to contemplate the psychology of war and the sociology of preparing for battle. But these themes are not specific to the American military...they are broader in scope.

Whereas the Hurt Locker IS about the American military. They're experience with IEDs is specific....the cinematography and dialogue make an attempt to reflect particular American military culture. This is why the expectations are different in terms of realism.

  

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theprofessional
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Sat Mar-06-10 03:26 PM

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136. "the atlantic calls hurt locker an imposter and a fraud (swipe)"
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more money quote goodness: "Consider the sniper scene: Driving alone through the desert - and no one drives alone in Iraq—the team comes upon several Blackwater-type contractors who have captured two high-value targets from the "deck of cards"—those Saddam Hussein cronies hunted in the early months of the war. An Iraqi sniper quickly kills three of the contractors with stunning long-range shots. With no reinforcements or air support available, James and his men must save the day. J.T. Sanborn, the team's level-headed sergeant, settles in behind a .50-caliber rifle and kills three insurgents, including one dropped at a dead run, nine football fields away. A trained sniper would be proud of that shot, so it's mighty impressive from a bomb disposal technician."

i remember seeing some pbs special on army snipers, and to hit a guy who was running full-speed even just a few hundred yards away was like hitting a half court shot. and this was for guys who did nothing but look through rifle scopes all day. i remember 'cause that pbs thing came to mind while i was watching the sniper scene and thinking there's no way. they should have either set this up scene up somehow (maybe reveal earlier that sanborn is the greatest sniper who ever lived), ended it somewhat realistically (call in air support), or scrapped it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2010/03/whats-wrong-with-the-hurt-locker/36888/?rss=36888

What's Wrong With 'The Hurt Locker'
Mar 3 2010, 9:07 AM ET
Brian Mockenhaupt
(Brian Mockenhaupt, a freelance writer, served twice in Iraq as an infantryman with the Army's 10th Mountain Division.)

In his self-published book, Stolen Valor, Vietnam veteran B.G. Burkett exposes scores of men who pass themselves off as war heroes. He digs through stacks of military personnel records and outs city councilmen, prominent businessmen and even presidents of veterans groups as frauds. Some had served in the military and finagled paperwork that bumped them up several ranks and turned them into battlefield legends. Purple Hearts, Silver Stars, Medals of Honor. Others hadn't spent a day in uniform but conjured equally dramatic tales of daring and sacrifice. The imposters, he says, had become some of the most vocal and visible veterans. They influenced the public's perception of war and even guided legislative agendas, a disservice to those who did the fighting and the bleeding.

How could they get away with that? Moral authority. So few Americans have actually walked and sweated on battlefields that they defer to those who say they have, and assume those men and women speak the truth.

This also explains why The Hurt Locker is up for a Best Picture Oscar. And why it shouldn't win.

Present a movie as a hyper-realistic look at today's wars and those fighting them, and you have a responsibility to deliver because—for better or worse—without first-hand experience, we rely on our storytellers to fill in the those gaps with texture, and meaning and context. That was director Kathryn Bigelow's intent. She wanted the audience to experience war as the soldiers do and used shaky hand-held camera shots for a documentary-style effect. And she was rewarded for it. She won over the critics, nearly all of whom wrote breathless and fawning reviews: Overflowing with crackling versimilitude; One of the defining films of the decade; Impressively realistic; A near-perfect movie about men in war; The film about the war in Iraq we've been waiting for.

With commentary like that, I expected a movie that would give viewers a real sense of what a minority of Americans have been doing on their behalf these nine years. Instead, I left the theater frustrated and disappointed. To its credit, The Hurt Locker, unlike many of the War on Terror films so far, doesn't spoon-feed political messages. But Bigelow and screenwriter Mark Boal have tried so hard to make a great and important film that they transformed their story into caricature. This is a shame, because the movie begins with promise.

Bigelow pulls us into the world of an Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal team finishing a year-long tour speckled with near misses. She nails the setting. The trash piles and the dust, the heat and the searing white sunlight, Iraqis watching from doorways, balconies and rooftops, the curious indistinguishable from the suspicious. And, amid all this, the soldiers, steeped in resignation, knowing they could die in the next moment. These bomb squads face obscene levels of danger, which makes their day-to-day experiences the perfect window through which to view war's effects.

But the movie soon careens into the tedious and the absurd. The Hurt Locker was born of Boal's embed with an Army EOD unit, which gives the film a further air of authority and authenticity—based on true events and all—though he took many, many liberties in crafting the story. I only saw a small corner of the war during two Iraq tours, but the bomb squad's actions seemed over the top. Was the main character, Will James, leader of the three-man team, reckless and cavalier with his men's safety? Probably. But never mind that. I expect small inconsistencies and lapses in logic, like soldiers wearing the wrong uniforms, or inexplicably abandoning their humvee and hiding in an Iraqi house.

It's the huge stumbles, many of them a by-product of the need for narrative momentum and dramatic tension, that pollute the finer parts of The Hurt Locker. Consider the sniper scene: Driving alone through the desert - and no one drives alone in Iraq—the team comes upon several Blackwater-type contractors who have captured two high-value targets from the "deck of cards"—those Saddam Hussein cronies hunted in the early months of the war. An Iraqi sniper quickly kills three of the contractors with stunning long-range shots. With no reinforcements or air support available, James and his men must save the day. J.T. Sanborn, the team's level-headed sergeant, settles in behind a .50-caliber rifle and kills three insurgents, including one dropped at a dead run, nine football fields away. A trained sniper would be proud of that shot, so it's mighty impressive from a bomb disposal technician.

Later—after James leaves his protected base and goes rogue through the nighttime streets of Baghdad—he and his two teammates investigate a massive truck bomb in the Green Zone. To hunt down the triggerman, James splits his team and sends each man alone down a dark alleyway. Wow. If that's true, I'm damn glad I didn't serve with any of them. Specialist Owen Eldridge, the team's youngest member, is shot and briefly kidnapped during the goofy mission, a ham-fisted reminder that James' actions have consequences for others.

These scenes would have made more sense as fantasy sequences, since bizarre and disturbing dreams are a staple of war. But are any of the events absolutely unimaginable? No. Battlefields are very, very strange places, with endless power to surprise. A soldier wandering off into Baghdad alone on some misguided personal quest? Well, Bowe Bergdahl, now held as a prisoner of war by the Taliban, was captured last year after he apparently walked away from his remote outpost in eastern Afghanistan. So people act stupidly.

The problem comes in knitting together these experiences, real or fancied, into a single narrative. Ask a dozen soldiers to tell you a story about the war and you'll hear a dozen harrowing or poignant or side-splitting tales. Many of them might be true. But smash them into a composite and the truth flees. While it makes for a convenient story vehicle and a steady point of focus for the viewer, packing everything into one man's or a small group's experience rises to the ridiculous.

I understand the need for condensed action sequences, a case best made by The Onion's story on Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, "the most true-to-life military game ever created." Soldiers run pointless missions, sit around for hours on guard duty and referee arguments between colleagues about which actress they'd rather sleep with. All of that brings back memories. War, in real-time, is often boring, or at least too slow moving for the big screen.

So Bigelow and Boal were right to reduce the soldiers' experiences to the pivotal and illuminating moments. And when The Hurt Locker does it well—which isn't often—the results are superb. One of the movie's best scenes comes near the end as James, back from Iraq, stands alone in the cereal aisle of a grocery store and stares at the choices, not overwhelmed but indifferent. He's traded the adrenaline of combat for the tedium of life at home.

The Hurt Locker should have lingered on and gone deeper into the small moments, digging at the subtlety and nuance instead of telling its audience that war, as experienced by so many Americans, isn't meaningful enough as is, but must be gussied up with outsiders' interpretations of what makes the experience profound.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Jay Doz
Member since Dec 13th 2005
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Sat Mar-06-10 05:34 PM

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137. "i really like this article"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

that sniper scene bugged the fuck out of me

and lmao @ the Modern Warfare 3 reference

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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FamisZhackPierre
Member since Sep 29th 2009
233 posts
Sun Mar-07-10 01:42 PM

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138. "So, this film lives or dies "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

with its level of accuracy?

If there were tweaks made...the soldiers didn't run w/flashlights, the distance from which insurgents were shot was shortened, they used more acronyms when they spoke, etc...the film would've been significantly improved? And I'm actually asking, this...not being rhetorical/sarcastic...

I can see not liking the story/screenplay, or not feeling that any of the perfomances were particularly noteworthy--but I don't see how a bad movie can be vastly improved by more accurate technical details that only a select group of people are aware of, or how a good movie can be made bad by inaccurate technical details that only a select group of people are aware of.

It stands to reason that some military personnel might feel themselves unable to enjoy this film b/c of numerous inaccuracies, but are you expecting civilians,critics, and members of the academy w/o a military background to be equally bothered? That's seems unreasonable b/c they simply don't have the same frame of reference.

That said, a lot of the hype is probably b/c academy members/critics feel that it's a good look to co-sign the film b/c of its alleged subject matter, and I agree that this is irritating, but at the same time, it's the Academy Awards, so I expect it.

I thought it was a solid, fairly engaging acting film. My main issue w/it would be the sequence in which Renner turns into a superhero/man on a mission type.


  

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Jay Doz
Member since Dec 13th 2005
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Sun Mar-07-10 02:57 PM

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139. "the technical inaccuracies only support the overlying criticism"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

...that much of the film's plot is driven by complete fantasy. Which I think you agree with when you say:

"My main issue w/it would be the sequence in which Renner turns into a superhero/man on a mission type."

Myself, as well as some of the authors cited here, are wholeheartedly willing to concede a certain level of technical detail. It is Hollywood after all. FMJ and Platoon, IMO, are still beloved in veteran circles, despite the fact that they don't necessarily paint an accurate or even a favorable picture of military life. However, they still manage to maintain an air of authenticity. THL fails to do so despite being praised for maintaining that achievement. So yeah, technical inaccuracies are annoying, but they only become amplified when the film's plot is pushed along by a sequence of absurd situations.

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sun Mar-07-10 11:59 PM

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141. "academy award watcher: the hurt locker just won 6 oscars. u r mad."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-08-10 12:21 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

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theprofessional
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Mon Mar-08-10 01:41 AM

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143. "nah, i'm happy"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

hurt locker is the most overrated war film of all time and hopefully these six oscars will cement its rightful place in history. crash was considered a good film until it won best picture, everyone rented it to see what the buzz was about and realized immediately how horrible it is. now it's a punchline.

hurt locker is almost certainly the lowest grossing best picture winner of all time, even without adjusting for inflation, and not even an avalanche of previous awards, advertising, and positive reviews have been enough to find it an audience. if six oscars don't do the trick, i don't know what will. to the extent that this film might finally be seen and judged by an audience outside of the industry, i'm happy.

and to the extent that it brings any recognition whatsoever to the military-- no matter how fundamentally inaccurate and occasionally ridiculous-- if it takes six oscars to make people appreciate our soldiers overseas a little more (soldiers who are significantly more disciplined and professional and good-not-lucky than THL would suggest), i'm happy.

and mostly i'm cool 'cause i'm 100% certain that ten years from now-- probably less-- people are gonna look back at avatar and inglourious basterds and their lack of oscars and they're gonna be like, wtf won that year? and hurt locker will take it's place next to shakespeare in love and whatever movies beat star wars and goodfellas as the dumbest things the academy ever did.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Mar-08-10 02:08 AM

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144. "you mad!"
In response to Reply # 143


          

GOOD!

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Wrongthink
Member since Sep 29th 2006
4874 posts
Mon Mar-08-10 02:44 AM

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145. "lol @ "even adjusting for inflation""
In response to Reply # 143
Mon Mar-08-10 02:45 AM by Wrongthink

  

          

>hurt locker is almost certainly the lowest grossing best
>picture winner of all time, even without adjusting for
>inflation,

as if that sentence makes sense.

...says Wrongthink

Real talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12JJv6yCk7Q

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Raised under Reagan
Member since Oct 10th 2007
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Mon Mar-08-10 06:58 AM

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147. "Hahahahahaha"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

______________________________________

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GumDrops
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Mon Mar-08-10 06:27 AM

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146. "this film is really flawed/racist even"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-08-10 06:39 AM by GumDrops

  

          

the whole film was basically set up to show how hard it is for the troops out there in iraq - all iraqis are hostile to them being there, they hate the soldiers, theyre all suicide bombers etc etc. the tone of HL makes you think it might be more questioning but basically, this is basically a 'support our soldiers' type of movie. i thought it might not be. much as i liked HL - it has some affecting moments, and thrilling scenes, and i like its restraint, but as a whole, its flat and one sided. theres no iraqi viewpoint in there at all. maybe there shouldnt be - its about the soliders after all (and maybe its better they didnt try and show the iraqi viewpoint - who knows what that would have been like), but its basically a we love our troops type of film in the body of a film that makes you think otherwise.

edit -
http://rightwingnews.com/2010/02/the-hurt-locker-is-raaacist/?comments=show

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Mar-08-10 11:25 AM

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148. "..."
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

Can you tell me exactly what is wrong with supporting our troops? Is it possible to support the troops and not support the war(s) they're fighting?

And it's not like the "support our troops" message is hidden anyway

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GumDrops
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Mon Mar-08-10 05:15 PM

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151. "nothing wrong with that... as long as you dont resort to a 1dimensional"
In response to Reply # 148
Mon Mar-08-10 05:15 PM by GumDrops

  

          

view of iraqis. but i know 'the enemy' has to be portrayed as such for 'our boys' to appear that much more heroic.

  

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Calico
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Mon Mar-08-10 06:04 PM

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152. "what are you talking about??"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

there was the way the boy felt about the Americans

the way the merchants felt about the Americans

the way the iraq officers felt about the Americans

the way the old man felt about the Americans

the way the kid's mother (i think that's who she was) felt about the Americans

the way the "insurgents" felt about the Americans


all those views = ONE dimension??

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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GumDrops
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Tue Mar-09-10 05:00 AM

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153. "what are YOU talking about?"
In response to Reply # 152
Tue Mar-09-10 05:01 AM by GumDrops

  

          

>there was the way the boy felt about the Americans
>
>the way the merchants felt about the Americans
>
>the way the iraq officers felt about the Americans
>
>the way the old man felt about the Americans
>
>the way the kid's mother (i think that's who she was) felt
>about the Americans
>
>the way the "insurgents" felt about the Americans
>
>
>all those views = ONE dimension??

they all felt the same!

thats all you see about them. how theyre either not to be trusted, slippery, or nuts (the woman in the house, who we dont even know whether she was the kids mum or not). there was no interaction with anyone iraqi really. obv this is a film about the soldiers first and foremost, but still.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Mon Mar-08-10 12:29 PM

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149. "I enjoyed it for what it was....a trumped up war movie "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My expectation going in was to watch a movie that kept me thoroughly engaged, and that is exactly what I got. Could it have been more realistic in certain instances(the flashlight off base, splitting up to cover ground...cmon lol) and been just as dramatic? Yes. Did it take away from my viewing experience? No....because right after Renner's character went off by himself with no radio comm to disarm a bomb, I realized the movie was going to be heavily tilted towards drama, not realism.

As someone mentioned above, I feel a lot of the criticism comes from how the movie was shot...the visceral, documentary style gives the impression that it's based in fact.

In the end, I saw movie with a very well-done story, interesting characters, great set pieces, amazing visuals, and high drama...and that is exactly what I wanted.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

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L D E A

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Wed Mar-31-10 04:58 PM

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154. "just saw it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

while i found it entertaining, there were some over the top moments to me and although the academy be on that bullshit anyway, i wouldn't call it a GREAT movie or think of it as the type of movie that SHOULD be oscar nominated.

the accolades the movie receives for its "grit" and "realism" seem to be illegitimized by that very lack of realism that it in fact contains in many parts. the aspects of the movie that former soldiers love about it are NOT the aspects the viewing public seems to hail, which is specifically the sensory experience of being an EOD expert.

and as one article author pointed out, it can't be ignored that ten years from now, kids WILL view this movie as somehow an accurate depiction of the war in iraq.

so that people find it enjoyable or a really good movie is fine, movies appeal to people in many different ways. however, for that one dumbass comparison to batman (a COMIC BOOK HERO) and star wars (a book with creatures called ewoks and WOOKIES wtf) to even be on the same PLANE as this film is silly. iron man and transformers employed the afghanistan and iraq wars as a back drop for their stories but they quite clearly weren't concerned with telling war stories. THIS movie i think makes that assertion, but falls short in ways that were not necessary to the desired emotional impact. james not being a wild cowboy would NOT have sacrificed conveying the emotional gravity of the situation, they were STILL DEFUSING FUCKING BOMBS.

but basically you can't sit there and try and act like the REASONS for praise don't sound silly as shit when those reasons are more based in fantasy than reality.

  

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