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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Jan-19-10 09:29 PM

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"Inception (Nolan, 2010)"
Mon Jul-12-10 11:11 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

http://inceptionmovie.warnerbros.com/


And yeah, Nolan doesn't really give up any answers either, but I'm swiping it anyway...

latimes.com:

>Hero Complex

For your inner fanboy

Bigger than Batman: Christopher Nolan says 'Inception' is 'the biggest challenge I've taken on'

January 13, 2010 | 7:46 am

So what exactly *is* “Inception”? That’s a popular question after a visually dazzling but enigmatic trailer was released for a film that didn’t exactly clear things up with its title.

Is it an international thriller? A story of madness and lost love? Or Hollywood’s very first metaphysical heist movie? The answer is “all of the above,” according to writer-director Christopher Nolan, whose follow-up to “The Dark Knight” seems to have Ian Fleming, the Wachowski Brothers and Sigmund Freud as its spiritual advisors.

“I think we’ve put a lot of different things into the pot with this one,” Nolan said this week during a break from the editing bay.

“I grew up watching James Bond films and loving those and watching spy movies with their globetrotting sensibility.... We get to do that here, not just geographically but also in time and dimensions of reality as well. We get to make a movie that’s expansive, I suppose you’d say, in four dimensions.”

The Legendary Pictures and Warner Bros. release is shaping up as one of the most intriguing releases of 2010. Leonardo DiCaprio leads a cast that includes Marion Cotillard, Cillian Murphy, Michael Caine, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Ellen Page and Ken Watanabe.

The film was produced by Emma Thomas, who is Nolan's wife as well as his career partner. She said that "Inception" is a story that requires a huge canvas. The pair didn't set out looking for a way to top their Batman epic in scope, that's just where Nolan's "Inception" script took them.

“It’s something that we had been talking about on and off for seven or eight years," Thomas said. "Coming off of the ‘The Dark Knight,’ the only thing we really knew is that we wanted to do something more personal. It seemed like the right time to do this. The fact that it’s really just an enormous movie -- that wasn’t ever really a factor in the decision. This story lends itself to a movie of this size."

A key part of the premise is corporate espionage by way of dream invasion, but motives and even reality are slippery in a film that toys with perception as its travels through time and space. The crew covered a lot of territory too, filming in six countries.

“This is the biggest challenge I’ve taken on to this point,” said Nolan, who may return to Gotham City for his next feature. “We’re trying to tell a story on a massive scale, a true blockbuster scale – the biggest I’ve ever been involved with. We tried to make a very large-scale film with ‘The Dark Knight’ and with this one we wanted to push that even further.”

-- Geoff Boucher
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
METAPHYSICAL HEIST MOVIE?!!?
Jan 19th 2010
1
IMAX midnight show
Jan 20th 2010
2
count me as two
Jan 20th 2010
3
Love the ambition & looks like another winner. Thanks for posting.
Jan 20th 2010
4
This post is going pretty well so far.
Jan 20th 2010
5
I'll see it
Jan 20th 2010
6
But but but WE NEED MORE FUCKING INFORMATIONS GADAMMIT (swipe)
Apr 04th 2010
7
I quite like to be in that maze too & this shit right here's jigga:
Apr 04th 2010
8
100% on RT so far
Jul 06th 2010
35
new trailer...it looks real fucking good
May 08th 2010
9
i will be there.
May 08th 2010
10
ill go on the record saying that...
May 10th 2010
11
I was pretty amped for this after the first trailer
May 10th 2010
13
IMAX
May 10th 2010
15
I agree, but I think Marion Colltiard is the love interest
May 10th 2010
14
      yup, you're right
May 10th 2010
16
damn, still 2.5 months away
May 10th 2010
12
this shit gonna be GOOD. (i hope)
May 10th 2010
17
looks amazing
May 13th 2010
18
up 'cause its almost here
Jul 05th 2010
19
Early reviews are fucking GLOWING!!!!
Jul 05th 2010
20
2:28
Jul 05th 2010
21
GOOD!! this is exactly what i want
Jul 06th 2010
22
      fuck. and. that.
Jul 06th 2010
23
           You don't have to if you have a fully functioning brain.
Jul 25th 2010
472
Okay, I am officially not reading anything else about this movie
Jul 06th 2010
24
Jul 06th 2010
25
I've been looking forward to this.
Jul 06th 2010
26
I am hype as all hell for this....10 bloody days left, 10!
Jul 06th 2010
27
First film I'll see in theaters this summer,,,
Jul 06th 2010
28
fat chance. i wish. but cmon.
Jul 06th 2010
30
this summer was suffering, It really might happen.....
Jul 06th 2010
31
no way. Iron Man 2 didn't pull that off.
Jul 06th 2010
32
      Its the Dark Knight of this summer...
Jul 06th 2010
34
      dark knight was a sequel and had the name BATMAN on it.
Jul 06th 2010
36
           really? I didn't know that...
Jul 07th 2010
40
                I still say it'll be nowhere close to making 200 million
Jul 07th 2010
41
      Yeah, it did 60
Jul 19th 2010
259
dunno
Jul 06th 2010
29
Jul 06th 2010
33
100% on RT so far
Jul 06th 2010
37
i dont think ive been this geeked for a film in a long time
Jul 07th 2010
38
any SEATTLE okp's wanna hit IMAX thur night/fri morn??
Jul 07th 2010
39
goddamn 15 bucks wtf???
Jul 12th 2010
43
actually, it's worth it
Jul 13th 2010
45
      shit movies are like $11 now anyway
Jul 13th 2010
46
           damn locals here are like 7.50. 6 w/ college discount iirc
Jul 13th 2010
48
                THEE IMAX theater in Seattle is $13.75 if you buy em on the spot
Jul 14th 2010
58
ima be seeing it opening night with a group but i don't know where we're...
Jul 12th 2010
44
Just got back from screening - FUCKING AWESOME
Jul 12th 2010
42
Went to a screening tonight. It's fucking great.
Jul 13th 2010
47
AP rarely gives out four star reviews...
Jul 13th 2010
49
Exceptional (no spoilage)
Jul 13th 2010
50
Jigg...quick question (SEMI SPOILER...just don't look if you havent seen...
Jul 13th 2010
52
      RE: Jigg...quick question (SEMI SPOILER...just don't look if you havent ...
Jul 14th 2010
55
      word...
Jul 16th 2010
81
           i thought the same thing...
Jul 19th 2010
274
                RE: Co-sign
Jul 28th 2010
502
No spoilers review.
Jul 13th 2010
51
RE: No spoilers review.
Jul 13th 2010
53
      A little of both.
Jul 13th 2010
54
           The situations the character goes through made him inaudible too
Jul 14th 2010
56
I've officially decide to stop reading about the movie
Jul 14th 2010
57
what did you think of the score? i bought it, and i'm
Jul 15th 2010
59
I wish the score in the trailer was used in the film at some point
Jul 15th 2010
60
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with jigga
Jul 15th 2010
63
It's tough to focus on the score the first time with all that's going on
Jul 16th 2010
76
after seeing it a second time
Jul 16th 2010
101
That shit was so fucking epic, especially towards the end
Jul 18th 2010
142
Got my Imax tickets for the 12:15 showing tomm at the Metreon
Jul 15th 2010
61
my hate campaign is rapidly falling apart. fuck. fuck. fuck.
Jul 15th 2010
my hate campaign is rapidly falling apart. fuck. fuck. fuck.
Jul 15th 2010
62
Could just be overrated like the Dark Knight
Jul 15th 2010
64
      I have nothing to stand on for this agenda
Jul 15th 2010
65
           eh, it was alright
Jul 16th 2010
69
                It was better than "alright"
Jul 16th 2010
70
                     yes, it was.
Jul 16th 2010
74
                          Theres some very good stuff in it but...
Jul 17th 2010
115
                               people are gonna say it is, but it really isn't.
Jul 17th 2010
119
                                    How did you feel about it overall?
Jul 18th 2010
146
                                         it was great, and I'd watch it again right now
Jul 18th 2010
150
So is it worth the IMAX or not?
Jul 15th 2010
66
Depends on if stuff was shot in IMAX or not.
Jul 15th 2010
67
      Nolan says he did, but I hope it's an extra $15 good
Jul 15th 2010
68
           He says he shot it in 60 or 70mm I think
Jul 16th 2010
75
                everything I read said 35mm, I saw it at the liemax, it was dope
Jul 16th 2010
80
fucking great movie, my fav of the year thus far
Jul 16th 2010
71
Great movie
Jul 16th 2010
72
goin to midnite IMAX sesh on Wednesday, ripped outta my brain lol
Jul 16th 2010
73
Nolan's materpiece
Jul 16th 2010
77
Co-sign
Jul 16th 2010
100
This movie is the lithmus test for old critics vs. young critics
Jul 17th 2010
124
      I think if this movie is your favorite you need to see more movies
Jul 17th 2010
141
      I dunno man
Jul 18th 2010
144
      ironically alot of critics ripped 2001 when it originally came out
Jul 29th 2010
505
WTF?!?!
Jul 16th 2010
78
BRRRRRRRRMMMMMM.....BRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM
Jul 16th 2010
79
http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Inception-Vuvuzela.j...
Jul 20th 2010
345
caught a midnite showing last nite...
Jul 16th 2010
82
ebert review...
Jul 16th 2010
83
oh, a movie about dreams is "immune" to spoilers? lemme guess
Jul 16th 2010
87
      How is that a spoiler?
Jul 17th 2010
105
           if how she dies was a big reveal, well it landed with a thud....wack
Jul 17th 2010
114
WARNING: Do not watch tired and half-drunk...
Jul 16th 2010
84
I'm not seeing this at IMAX, should I go back and get IMAX tickets?
Jul 16th 2010
85
it's the fucking matrix...everyone's completely overselling this shit
Jul 16th 2010
86
^^^Still mad Nolan gettin more love than Knight-Dogg & his duds
Jul 16th 2010
88
oh to the muhfuckan contrary, nigga...i LIKE nolan.
Jul 16th 2010
89
      Ok you give me your better backstory for Mal then. ^^^(spoilers)
Jul 16th 2010
90
      the main character and his wife certainly could have been deeper
Jul 16th 2010
91
           I felt the flashbacks were sufficient but he could trim the snow scene
Jul 16th 2010
92
                I completely lost track of who was doing what about 1/4
Jul 16th 2010
94
      i honestly don't understand the matrix comparisons...
Jul 17th 2010
112
      completely agree with your assesment
Jul 18th 2010
176
      The reason for that was one of the best parts of the film IMO. (spoiler)
Jul 18th 2010
178
           Bingo.
Jul 19th 2010
211
           RE: The reason for that was one of the best parts of the film IMO. (spoi...
Jul 20th 2010
291
                To me, that needs to be shown.
Jul 20th 2010
307
unlike the matrix, its not picking at its own seams.
Jul 16th 2010
96
funny...that's ALL it does it try to explain reality
Jul 17th 2010
113
      not really. it's kinda an anti-matrix.
Jul 17th 2010
      not really. it's kinda an anti-matrix.
Jul 17th 2010
117
If this is the Matrix, the Matrix is the best movie ever.
Jul 17th 2010
103
You talk like the Matrix invented virtual/alternate realities
Jul 17th 2010
125
Hell, even in an action film format
Jul 17th 2010
126
it invented "bullet time", which is all over inception...you saw it
Jul 17th 2010
137
      I don't think so.
Jul 18th 2010
153
      this guy doesn't know what bullettime is.
Jul 25th 2010
478
It's a sci-fi Shutter Island
Jul 18th 2010
158
RE: It's a sci-fi Shutter Island
Jul 18th 2010
166
The Matrix + Shutter Island + Casino Royale = Inception.
Jul 22nd 2010
447
it's the matrix for grown-ups
Jul 26th 2010
485
The story isn't nearly as intricate as people make it out to be.
Jul 16th 2010
93
honestly, i think thats what saves the movie, but yeah
Jul 16th 2010
97
I didn't think so
Jul 17th 2010
122
this shit was the shit
Jul 16th 2010
95
That shit was bananas!
Jul 16th 2010
98
thats shit was dope.
Jul 16th 2010
99
1st answer hit the nail on the head
Jul 16th 2010
102
Fucking excellent movie, wish I saw it in IMAX
Jul 17th 2010
104
questions (SPOILERS)
Jul 17th 2010
106
RE: questions (SPOILERS)
Jul 17th 2010
107
RE: questions (SPOILERS)
Jul 17th 2010
108
I think this answers #4
Jul 17th 2010
109
RE: I think this answers #4
Jul 17th 2010
110
RE: questions (SPOILERS)
Jul 17th 2010
121
RE: questions (SPOILERS)
Jul 17th 2010
128
RE: questions (SPOILERS)
Jul 18th 2010
147
#2
Jul 18th 2010
154
      did we ever find out how Cobb transitioned from Mal to Saito?
Jul 27th 2010
495
           He misses the kick, then dies.
Jul 27th 2010
496
                gotcha.
Jul 27th 2010
501
incredible. saw it twice today. loved every minute.
Jul 17th 2010
111
Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
Jul 17th 2010
116
I loved it
Jul 17th 2010
118
Saw it on IMAX. It's beautiful in the larger format, but not essential.
Jul 17th 2010
120
      Ah, good
Jul 17th 2010
123
      RE: Saw it on IMAX. It's beautiful in the larger format, but not essenti...
Jul 17th 2010
127
Dope. The End.
Jul 17th 2010
129
saw it today
Jul 17th 2010
130
I thought it made sense *spoilers*
Jul 17th 2010
132
hey...yea you are right
Jul 19th 2010
201
caught that la vie en rose. made me smirk.
Jul 19th 2010
253
it was pretty good
Jul 17th 2010
131
Question involving spoilers.
Jul 17th 2010
133
It was not as deep as some people made it out to be
Jul 17th 2010
134
YES!
Jul 17th 2010
135
      Thank you
Jul 17th 2010
138
      RE: YES!
Jul 17th 2010
139
Definitely not as good as the Matrix...not even close
Jul 17th 2010
136
Here's my interpretation of the ending **spoilers***:
Jul 17th 2010
140
makes sense.
Jul 18th 2010
148
The one question I'd ask:
Jul 18th 2010
159
Check below for my thoughts on the totem.
Jul 18th 2010
171
Although... (And a new question)
Jul 18th 2010
172
      And one more question
Jul 18th 2010
174
      remember that's just his son though.
Jul 25th 2010
479
      I feel like we're kinda on the same page.
Jul 19th 2010
208
      It's not any given situation.
Jul 19th 2010
210
      its wouldn't have mattered
Jul 20th 2010
354
      The totem was tainted
Jul 24th 2010
465
it isn't an indicator of dream/reality. it's an indicator if you ACCEPT ...
Jul 19th 2010
196
      i typed this all wrong. it IS an indicator of dream/reality...
Jul 19th 2010
204
RE: Here's my interpretation of the ending **spoilers***:
Jul 18th 2010
165
In the initial cut...
Jul 18th 2010
167
      O really? My initial take was that it was there for dramatic effect
Jul 18th 2010
177
           Yeah. I think it was to add ambiguity.
Jul 19th 2010
206
                We're >>>>>>>>>>here<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jul 19th 2010
255
                     For what it's worth I saw a screening last Monday & didn't notice
Jul 19th 2010
262
                          i saw the wobble too, i can't wait for the DVD with all the extras
Jul 24th 2010
468
RE: Here's my interpretation of the ending **spoilers***:
Jul 18th 2010
168
what if the whole story was a dream he had during a flight?
Jul 18th 2010
181
this made me laugh
Jul 19th 2010
200
the ending is he made it home to his kids...the fuck else is there?
Jul 20th 2010
351
      That would mean he was still trapped in a dream
Jul 20th 2010
356
      he didn't spend the entire movie dreaming. it's not even that deep
Jul 21st 2010
367
      kids that don't age?
Jul 23rd 2010
456
I fell asleep in the theater
Jul 18th 2010
143
it's long as hell, not a movie to see tired.
Jul 18th 2010
151
Just saw this movie--
Jul 18th 2010
145
this is dumb.
Jul 18th 2010
152
One question.
Jul 18th 2010
157
      No.
Jul 18th 2010
170
           Nah, you guys are off
Jul 18th 2010
175
                yep. and that's why the top is decelerating at the end.
Jul 19th 2010
203
                I don't think I am. Just think I explained it wrong.
Jul 19th 2010
207
                     But once Leo touches it, he knows how it falls.
Jul 19th 2010
209
very good movie.
Jul 18th 2010
149
For all of his virtues as an actor,
Jul 18th 2010
155
I never cared. (Spoilers)
Jul 18th 2010
156
This may be the best review in here. n/m
Jul 19th 2010
249
thats all i needed to know
Jul 19th 2010
287
Entertaining and visually impressive... but emotionally?
Jul 18th 2010
160
I agree, the novelty of the idea carried the movie
Jul 18th 2010
161
Thats the one thing......
Jul 18th 2010
162
      Yeah I never got that he was ever THAT invested in the kids
Jul 18th 2010
164
           agreed there wasn't enough emotional investment but
Jul 18th 2010
185
that's what's brilliant about the script. ALL of it was shadow/projectio...
Jul 18th 2010
183
      I like your theory
Jul 18th 2010
187
      agreed. (not agreeing that i like my theory, but your other comments)
Jul 19th 2010
239
      The main relationship needed to be fleshed out.
Jul 18th 2010
188
      this was my interpretation, more or less (spoilers).
Jul 19th 2010
254
Very enjoyable
Jul 18th 2010
163
amazing film all around
Jul 18th 2010
169
well, that was some bullshit
Jul 18th 2010
173
A+ GOAT and yes, it was a dream.
Jul 18th 2010
179
Nope
Jul 19th 2010
215
After further thought, some grievances:
Jul 18th 2010
180
I feel like you kinda just gotta let that shit go
Jul 18th 2010
182
Oh, no doubt. I enjoyed the flick, and the shit's cool. But...
Jul 18th 2010
190
reply #183 addresses some of these.
Jul 18th 2010
184
While I get that, that level of complexity affects the film's characters...
Jul 18th 2010
191
      i understand. but dude is tom hanks on the island here. but we're
Jul 19th 2010
241
           I mean, I get it and admire the ingenuity. But...
Jul 19th 2010
280
You're pretty much nitpicking here, Frank
Jul 18th 2010
193
neo was lame, but I cared about him anyway
Jul 19th 2010
194
I cared about Neo about as much as any other action protagonist
Jul 19th 2010
198
But there are actual stakes.
Jul 19th 2010
195
      Different movie, different stakes
Jul 19th 2010
197
           You think Cobbs compares to Indiana Jones?!
Jul 19th 2010
202
yep
Jul 21st 2010
366
thought
Jul 18th 2010
186
The entire Inception storyline would have been nonsense
Jul 18th 2010
192
      maybe i did not type clearly
Jul 19th 2010
270
Awful
Jul 18th 2010
189
what the fuck is with grown ass people sleeping in movies?
Jul 19th 2010
216
That's the funniest shit I've read in a minute.
Jul 19th 2010
246
LOL, preach!
Jul 19th 2010
275
lol i did the sprint to the bathroom thing too...
Jul 20th 2010
334
damn bro you sound mentally crippled.
Jul 19th 2010
286
C.Note done did it again.
Jul 19th 2010
199
brilliant costume design btw
Jul 19th 2010
205
SPOILERS....slight..
Jul 19th 2010
212
the totem falling would mean he's awake
Jul 19th 2010
214
A masterpiece?!! More like Nolan's masturbatory piece
Jul 19th 2010
213
the clunky exposition is a definite valid problem
Jul 19th 2010
217
It's cause Nolan kinda put himself in an awkward position
Jul 19th 2010
221
      i think it kind of puts Nolan in a safe position.
Jul 19th 2010
224
      But there was no Sammy Jankis story that could explain it.
Jul 19th 2010
229
           i don't know man
Jul 19th 2010
234
                This is where I am
Jul 19th 2010
238
                     he was dreaming, and i'm not even sure Mal was even dead
Jul 19th 2010
244
                          also, how is he dreaming for this long?
Jul 19th 2010
250
      I agree with this 100%.
Jul 19th 2010
278
Nolan's masterpiece of shit
Jul 19th 2010
252
i agree completely. it was deeply awful.
Jul 20th 2010
293
more like jambone's masturbatory post
Jul 27th 2010
494
where does Cobb's father live?
Jul 19th 2010
218
Probably France
Jul 19th 2010
220
RE: where does Cobb's father live?
Jul 19th 2010
227
Didn't Cobb drop off some gifts for the kids,
Jul 19th 2010
264
the whole fuckin' movie is one of those morbius loops or whatever the
Jul 19th 2010
219
*tries to think of another heist movie with "emotional stakes"*
Jul 19th 2010
222
I see your point
Jul 19th 2010
223
Most of them.
Jul 19th 2010
225
Most of those have as flimsy if not worse
Jul 19th 2010
231
They are all set up better though.
Jul 19th 2010
233
^^^ Sees it
Jul 19th 2010
242
You're kind of missing the point though
Jul 19th 2010
232
I was answering Zoo's question
Jul 19th 2010
236
Sure.
Jul 19th 2010
240
      can someone imagine themselves pulling off a heist?
Jul 19th 2010
247
      It's not about being the "draw"
Jul 19th 2010
260
      I said for *ME* it was the draw. For me.
Jul 19th 2010
266
           I think we're using "draw" differently.
Jul 19th 2010
268
      Well, all of those other films do have more character development.
Jul 19th 2010
279
           Really? Ocean's 11 had more character development?
Jul 20th 2010
299
           Character development vs. developed characters
Jul 20th 2010
306
                I liked that he kept Mal mysterious. It enhanced the noirish elements.
Jul 20th 2010
310
                     Again, I think it could have been enhanced with more info.
Jul 20th 2010
313
                          The key Chris Noirlan element is that she's the femme fatale.
Jul 20th 2010
319
           I'd argue almost none have more character development or
Jul 20th 2010
315
I had no idea that this was such an "emotional" place
Jul 19th 2010
235
Actually, The Dark Knight complaints were very similar to this one.
Jul 19th 2010
237
People weren't paying attention to what Dent DID in TDK
Jul 19th 2010
258
      I clearly remember Dawes and Gordon doing similar things
Jul 19th 2010
261
           Well he wouldn't want Dawes to take his place for obvious reasons
Jul 19th 2010
269
                Yeah, that's the scene that's tripping me up.
Jul 19th 2010
277
^^^ Also sees it
Jul 19th 2010
243
wait the heist mattered>?
Jul 19th 2010
273
      It was more of a con than a heist
Jul 20th 2010
308
           oh no definitely
Jul 21st 2010
378
LOL @ you blowing shit out of proportion because we criticized it.
Jul 19th 2010
281
      C;mon, you're in here arguing that The Matrix, Italian Job...
Jul 20th 2010
320
           First of all, I like Inception more than Italian Job or Gone in 60.
Jul 20th 2010
329
                I never said you didn't.
Jul 20th 2010
333
                     Well, I'd say Heat is better than Inception.
Jul 20th 2010
338
I see your point Zoo, however.....
Jul 19th 2010
256
Out of Sight was emotional!
Jul 19th 2010
272
No more exposition than the Matrix no?
Jul 19th 2010
226
but haven't you seen the Sonata commercial?
Jul 19th 2010
228
RE: No more exposition than the Matrix no?
Jul 19th 2010
230
      thing is, we'd be watching a 4 hour movie or lack of explanation of...
Jul 19th 2010
245
           I don't think it would be that hard.
Jul 19th 2010
257
                RE: I don't think it would be that hard.
Jul 19th 2010
265
I will also add that I've always found Nolan's films to be a bit cold
Jul 19th 2010
248
The emotion comes from the obsession so it can be hard to relate to
Jul 19th 2010
267
I find him less about obsession and more about trying to bury guilt.
Jul 19th 2010
283
That's very true. And it makes me wonder...
Jul 19th 2010
282
Nolan style isn't cold, his style is socially awkward
Jul 20th 2010
297
      His last 2 movies were a comic book movie and a sci-fi piece
Jul 20th 2010
298
           lol @ your Nolan-like smugness.
Jul 20th 2010
300
                lol @ you trying to turn this into another tired-ass edition of
Jul 20th 2010
301
                     lol @ you avoiding the issue, like Nolan avoiding storytelling
Jul 20th 2010
302
                          lol @ you saying that this is "avoiding the issue"
Jul 20th 2010
303
                               what?
Jul 20th 2010
318
CHRIS NOLAN HIMSELF: "I needed to raise the emotional stakes."
Jul 21st 2010
357
if the movies you listed before are the measuring stick
Jul 29th 2010
504
incidentally that's what people often criticized Kubrick for
Jul 27th 2010
490
hold up, this was a heist movie?
Jul 19th 2010
251
by the end i'd totally forgotten what was going on.
Jul 20th 2010
294
      i thought it was just me...hahaha
Jul 20th 2010
295
For anyone who has had multiple viewings.....
Jul 19th 2010
263
2nd viewing convinced me Cobb planted the totem & it's significance
Jul 19th 2010
271
Dileep Rao Answers All Your Questions About Inception
Jul 19th 2010
276
dude has no ears.....so it's impossible for him to kick out!
Jul 19th 2010
284
all other directors are now competing for second place right now.
Jul 19th 2010
285
^^^ this is the type of comment I don't understand, lol
Jul 19th 2010
288
      You can certainly understand personal preferences tho right?
Jul 20th 2010
290
           Well, of course. But saying he's far in the lead...
Jul 20th 2010
323
           Frank understands
Jul 20th 2010
325
                ^^^ he's absolutely right
Jul 20th 2010
330
                PTA, Finch, D.A. & Wes all have some flat out duds on their resume
Jul 20th 2010
335
                     RE: PTA, Finch, D.A. & Wes all have some flat out duds on their resume
Jul 20th 2010
336
                     While they have a dud or two...
Jul 20th 2010
337
                     RE: PTA, Finch, D.A. & Wes all have some flat out duds on their resume
Jul 22nd 2010
423
Nolan on the dream logic:
Jul 19th 2010
289
universal to him, of course.
Jul 20th 2010
296
in-freakin-credible
Jul 20th 2010
292
you can tell that nolan read....
Jul 20th 2010
304
interesting
Jul 20th 2010
331
Dope.
Jul 20th 2010
305
Was the concept of the "Architect" necessary?
Jul 20th 2010
309
They needed a reason to include Ellen Page's character
Jul 20th 2010
311
They needed someone to control the dream environment since
Jul 20th 2010
314
      He couldn't anymore in any dream.
Jul 20th 2010
317
           but that's not nearly the same as fucking shit up from the jump
Jul 20th 2010
347
Let's say there was no "Architect" when they entered Yusuf's dream.
Jul 20th 2010
312
Everyone could do that though
Jul 20th 2010
316
      I get that they needed an outsider
Jul 20th 2010
321
      It sets up that they can control the dream
Jul 20th 2010
322
      they only had the power to alter the environment when in the dream.
Jul 20th 2010
326
      Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.
Jul 20th 2010
341
      i think you're off or misunderstood
Jul 20th 2010
352
           Yeah, I didn't get the models/pre-planning of the dream.
Jul 20th 2010
355
They needed someone to ask questions for Leo to answer, lol.
Jul 20th 2010
324
exactly, Nolan needed a 'natural' way to explain all the rules
Jul 20th 2010
328
well, they needed to know what they were getting into.
Jul 20th 2010
327
saito knew the 1st dream w/in a dream was fucked up b/c of the carpet.
Jul 20th 2010
343
      to add onto that skill of being a 'dream architect'
Jul 20th 2010
348
A good blog entry on Inception's dream logic by Owen Gleiberman:
Jul 20th 2010
332
I'd say he answered his question right here.
Jul 20th 2010
340
Jul 20th 2010
342
somebody didnt pay enough attention.
Jul 20th 2010
344
Saw it today. Incredible. Havent fully processed it ...
Jul 20th 2010
339
Some thoughts/questions after my 2nd viewing
Jul 20th 2010
346
Couple questions
Jul 20th 2010
349
RE: Couple questions
Jul 20th 2010
350
      RE: Couple questions
Jul 20th 2010
353
           RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
358
                RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
361
                     RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
364
                     RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
369
                          RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
373
                          RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
376
                          RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
384
                               RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
386
                               RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
391
                                    Nevermind.
Jul 21st 2010
393
                                    RE: Also, the sedative has to be wearing off.
Jul 21st 2010
399
                                    the only way to get out of YUSUF's heavy sedative was to kick simultaneo...
Jul 21st 2010
394
                                         There's really no way to know that, his is the only sedative explained
Jul 21st 2010
395
                                         i think if we keep digging deeper, we're gonna end up in limbo.
Jul 21st 2010
396
                                              How do you know we're not already there?
Jul 21st 2010
397
                                              lol
Jul 23rd 2010
462
                                         Although, how did Yusuf wake up?
Jul 21st 2010
398
                                              I don't think the kicks have to be simultaneous, just in order
Jul 21st 2010
400
                                                   So Yusuf would have just woken up first, no?
Jul 21st 2010
401
                                                        RE: So Yusuf would have just woken up first, no?
Jul 21st 2010
403
                                                        Yusuf had no kick unless the flight attendant was involved.
Jul 21st 2010
414
                                                             RE: Yusuf had no kick unless the flight attendant was involved.
Jul 22nd 2010
425
                                                                  RE: Yusuf had no kick unless the flight attendant was involved.
Jul 22nd 2010
431
                                                                  gotcha, I have to make sure to catch this when I see it again
Jul 22nd 2010
435
                                                                  exactly. but like i said in another post, Arthur was only meant to wake....
Jul 22nd 2010
439
                                                        you needed 2 simultaneous kicks to jump up from level 3.
Jul 21st 2010
413
                                                             RE: you needed 2 simultaneous kicks to jump up from level 3.
Jul 22nd 2010
428
                                                                  RE: you needed 2 simultaneous kicks to jump up from level 3.
Jul 22nd 2010
430
                                                                  i forgot the end of the song is a kick itself.
Jul 22nd 2010
432
                                                                       the end of the song wasn't ever a kick
Jul 22nd 2010
433
                                                                       so song was an indicator the dream was gonna end/sedation wears off.
Jul 22nd 2010
436
                                                                       I thought they were all coming back at the same time
Jul 22nd 2010
438
                                                                       well, he had to set off the explosion, right? so he had to kick later.
Jul 22nd 2010
440
                                                                       I don't think so bc the time buffer would allow everyone to kick togethe...
Jul 22nd 2010
441
                                                                       the freefall along with the van hitting the water was the entire kick.
Jul 22nd 2010
448
                                                                       They were two different kicks, Leo distinctly states it
Jul 22nd 2010
449
                                                                       of course it was two.
Jul 22nd 2010
451
                                                                       By timing, I mean he timed the button press lol
Jul 22nd 2010
452
                          misread.
Jul 21st 2010
379
                          about limbo:
Jul 21st 2010
382
                          RE: about limbo:
Jul 21st 2010
387
                          RE: Couple questions
Jul 27th 2010
491
                     RE: Couple questions
Jul 21st 2010
381
nvm this part of what I wrote, I think I figured it out
Jul 21st 2010
360
Was this how you interpeted limbo:
Jul 21st 2010
359
RE: Was this how you interpeted limbo:
Jul 21st 2010
362
what you're missing about limbo is, it's not impossible to get out
Jul 21st 2010
363
Right, but that's essentially the same as being lost right?
Jul 21st 2010
365
but cant you just kill yourself in limbo?
Jul 21st 2010
368
      If you die and are sedated, you go to limbo.
Jul 21st 2010
370
           I think I have an inkling of how Leo and Mal got there
Jul 21st 2010
372
                Option B(ingo)
Jul 21st 2010
374
exactly how i interpreted it. however, sometimes i explore the notion...
Jul 21st 2010
377
What limbo is and how you get there are two different things
Jul 26th 2010
488
Like the film, don't like the film, or somewhere in between, I gotta say
Jul 21st 2010
371
To that end, here's Lisa Schwarzbaum, also from ew (swipe)
Jul 21st 2010
375
      CAN WE PLEASE SEARCH THIS FORUM FOR USE OF THESE WORDS
Jul 21st 2010
380
      awesome.
Jul 23rd 2010
463
The second viewing shored up a few things for me
Jul 21st 2010
383
RE: The second viewing shored up a few things for me
Jul 21st 2010
385
Browning was Eams
Jul 21st 2010
388
      not true.
Jul 21st 2010
389
      Not in the hotel, that was Fischer's projection of Browning
Jul 21st 2010
390
           Ah, right. Forgot about that scene.
Jul 21st 2010
392
what happens in the credits?
Jul 22nd 2010
421
      SPOILER
Jul 22nd 2010
429
           RE: SPOILER
Jul 22nd 2010
450
           oh thats dope....
Jul 26th 2010
482
Great film, great ending...
Jul 21st 2010
402
RE: Great film, great ending...
Jul 21st 2010
406
      Were they different ages?
Jul 21st 2010
410
           when did he say how long he'd been on the run?
Jul 22nd 2010
418
           what? how was limbo supposed to make you crazy?
Jul 22nd 2010
420
           Cobbs acts like he hasn't seen them in years. think about this:
Jul 22nd 2010
422
                He went further than level 2
Jul 23rd 2010
459
Anyone else think JGL is a spitting image of Heath Ledger?
Jul 21st 2010
404
man i swear i was thinking the same thing all movie
Jul 22nd 2010
416
      I've always thought that, going back to '10 Things I Hate About You'
Jul 29th 2010
503
A very interesting question, credit to Soul Honky:
Jul 21st 2010
405
The theory I thought of on the way home:
Jul 21st 2010
407
Then he wouldn't have woken up.
Jul 21st 2010
408
      Right, Yusuf kicks out with the rest of the group at a later time
Jul 21st 2010
409
           But didn't he wake up at the same time as all of them?
Jul 21st 2010
411
                I'm sure he would kick back to reality at the same time
Jul 21st 2010
412
                reply 413* and 414* above.
Jul 21st 2010
415
he wasn't asleep in that level
Jul 22nd 2010
419
      I know that and said as much above (Yusef is driving so obv cant be asle...
Jul 22nd 2010
424
here's the real question
Jul 22nd 2010
417
double post
Jul 22nd 2010
426
From what I understand:
Jul 22nd 2010
427
ok, let's break this down!
Jul 22nd 2010
434
      post 435 lol, the simultaneous kicks info is what I needed
Jul 22nd 2010
437
If you see it tomorrow, can you check out the kids and their clothing
Jul 22nd 2010
445
yup
Jul 22nd 2010
446
i take this back...figured it out on second viewing
Jul 23rd 2010
453
Why does Nolan fetishize Asian culture in so many of his films?
Jul 22nd 2010
442
Hmmm....the ending very well may have been reality
Jul 22nd 2010
443
Loved this film!
Jul 22nd 2010
444
2nd viewing...yes i paid attention to the kids
Jul 23rd 2010
454
.
Jul 23rd 2010
455
RE: 2nd viewing...yes i paid attention to the kids
Jul 23rd 2010
458
RE: 2nd viewing...yes i paid attention to the kids
Jul 23rd 2010
460
      RE: 2nd viewing...yes i paid attention to the kids
Jul 23rd 2010
464
in "reality", Leo talks to TWO VERSIONS of his kids on the phone
Jul 25th 2010
474
      don't matter how long the top spun....in dreams, it NEVER stops
Jul 26th 2010
486
goin for 2nd viewing in a couple days at the DRIVE INS
Jul 23rd 2010
457
i loved this movie
Jul 23rd 2010
i loved this movie
Jul 23rd 2010
461
I enjoyed that
Jul 24th 2010
466
Spoilers ... probably ... maybe ... but i dont know....
Jul 24th 2010
467
RE: Spoilers ... probably ... maybe ... but i dont know....
Jul 30th 2010
507
      It's an interesting theory but I think we would seen more from him
Jul 30th 2010
508
           Same here
Jul 30th 2010
509
           but why? (SPOILERS maybe????)
Aug 02nd 2010
516
                I just think Nolan would've showed another key scene to hint at it
Aug 03rd 2010
520
http://i31.tinypic.com/p84jl.jpg
Jul 24th 2010
469
^^^ powerful analytical psychology. and A++ memeing. would meme
Jul 25th 2010
476
it's an interesting movie..not a "heist" movie, but good
Jul 24th 2010
470
see it again. it completely turned my (albeit few) criticisms around.
Jul 25th 2010
481
LOL. @ y'all dumb niggas. O_E got it right the first time (spoilerz)
Jul 24th 2010
471
think about the contrived plot, reminds me of my dreams
Jul 25th 2010
473
I feel you, the cathartic element is the main point
Jul 26th 2010
484
the emotion hit me harder on the 2nd viewing.
Jul 25th 2010
475
Having Ariadne and Arthur kiss is indeed convoluted
Jul 25th 2010
477
They could make a franchise of this. Or even better, unify it with Batma...
Jul 25th 2010
480
I was impressed. It worked.
Jul 26th 2010
483
Also, why did JGL leave the room?
Jul 27th 2010
492
Saw it twice, two days in a row, question
Jul 26th 2010
487
Leo's suit, shirt and tie were pimp shit
Jul 26th 2010
489
looking like Nolans doppleganger
Aug 02nd 2010
517
mofos STILL yammering about the mythical 'character development' concept
Jul 27th 2010
493
The exposition & Cobb's character development was well done.
Jul 27th 2010
497
      it SO does.
Jul 27th 2010
498
The Secret of the Inception Score
Jul 27th 2010
499
Jungle Souljah mentioned that above this makes it more noticeable
Jul 27th 2010
500
dumb and enjoyable n/m
Jul 30th 2010
506
Hmm...
Jul 31st 2010
510
RE: Awesome, Awesome, Awesome
Jul 31st 2010
511
I HATED
Aug 01st 2010
512
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLUf7iOP0_c
Aug 01st 2010
513
went for viewing #3 last nite and the film got even better
Aug 01st 2010
514
lots of people agree cuz its still #1
Aug 02nd 2010
515
im 99% certain Mal's father is pulling the strings
Aug 02nd 2010
518
Why do people keep misinterpreting this! Argh
Aug 03rd 2010
519

raptor44
Member since Dec 11th 2004
1161 posts
Tue Jan-19-10 11:13 PM

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1. "METAPHYSICAL HEIST MOVIE?!!?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

just when i thought i couldn't be more excited, this happens. four dimensions? bigger than the dark knight?

i can't wait.

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Wed Jan-20-10 12:58 AM

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2. "IMAX midnight show"
In response to Reply # 0


          

For once I'm glad I can watch previews and walk into the theater without knowing anything.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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xangeluvr
Charter member
9014 posts
Wed Jan-20-10 01:52 AM

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3. "count me as two"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>For once I'm glad I can watch previews and walk into the
>theater without knowing anything.

i hate trailers nowadays. they give away too much a lot of times.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Wed Jan-20-10 12:06 PM

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4. "Love the ambition & looks like another winner. Thanks for posting."
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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44258 posts
Wed Jan-20-10 03:53 PM

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5. "This post is going pretty well so far."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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Cnilla
Member since Sep 05th 2008
2381 posts
Wed Jan-20-10 05:11 PM

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6. "I'll see it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.shoecrush.com/default.asp <----- Okfees, need some shoes? Go here.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Sun Apr-04-10 01:41 AM

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7. "But but but WE NEED MORE FUCKING INFORMATIONS GADAMMIT (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

latimes.com:

>ON THE SET

'Inception' breaks into dreams

Director Christopher Nolan's latest is a heist movie with an unusual target: the mind.

By Geoff Boucher

April 4, 2010

Reporting from Cardington, England - July is the month when movies gets dizzy (or is it ditsy?) from the heat, and this year is no exception, with films featuring heartthrob vampires, evil aliens and the never-gets-old concept of talking dogs. But on July 16, in the middle of the usual popcorn parade, director Christopher Nolan and Warner Bros. will deliver "Inception," a strange thriller that has been a Hollywood mystery for months thanks to its cryptic title and the fact that the studio has guarded the Nolan-penned script like a state secret.

So it was no surprise last summer that, at a musty old dirigible hangar outside London, Nolan welcomed a rare visitor to his "Inception" set with a guarded smile. "So you've read the script -- did you understand it?" Mazes and masked intentions are the specialties of Nolan, who burst on the scene 10 years ago with "Memento," a noir riddle told in two alternating narratives presented in opposite chronological directions -- a masterpiece of watchmaker cinema that earned Nolan and his brother, Jonathan, an Oscar nomination for their screenplay. In 2008, Nolan performed an even more impressive sleight of hand when he delivered a $1-billion success with the Batman movie called "The Dark Knight," the most cerebral of superhero films and one that barely used any computer-generated effects.

"Inception," the 39-year-old director's seventh feature film and his first foray into science fiction, combines the perception riddles of "Memento" and the sheer scale of "Dark Knight" with its $160-million budget and location shoots in Morocco, France, Japan and three other countries. The film stars Leonardo DiCaprio as a specialist in the new branch of corporate espionage -- he's a dream thief who plucks secrets from the minds of tycoons after pumping them full of drugs and hooking them up to a mysterious contraption. The problem, though, is the land of nod can be volatile -- as can DiCaprio's character, Dom Cobb, who is a wounded dreamer after the loss of his beloved wife.

The movie may be Hollywood's first existential heist movie, and though that may not sound like typical fare for the air-conditioning months, Warners and Legendary Pictures are banking on the movie catching on as a brainy "Mission: Impossible" by way of "The Matrix"; the globe-trotting movie may have had its subconscious baggage packed by Sigmund Freud, in other words, but it also carries a passport stamped by Ian Fleming. DiCaprio says Nolan is the perfect director to turn that unlikely combination into a July hit.

"Complex and ambiguous are the perfect way to describe the story," DiCaprio said in a recent phone interview. "And it's going to be a challenge to ultimately pull it off. But that is what Chris Nolan specializes in. He has been able to convey really complex narratives that work on a multitude of different layers simultaneously to an audience and make it entertaining and engaging throughout. You look at ' Insomnia' or 'Memento,' these movies are working on so many different levels. That's his expertise; it's what he does best, as a matter of fact."


'Inception's' conception

For Nolan, "Inception" was an elusive dream. "I wanted to do this for a very long time, it's something I've thought about off and on since I was about 16," Nolan said during a break in shooting last summer. "I wrote the first draft of this script seven or eight years ago, but it goes back much further, this idea of approaching dream and the dream life as another state of reality."

Nolan split his youth between Chicago and London (he has dual citizenship) but, with his stately, professorial mien and Oxford dress code, he seems far more in touch with the banks of the Thames than the shore of Lake Michigan. Ever since he was a youngster, he says, he was intrigued by the way he would wake up and then, while he fell back into a lighter sleep, hold on to the awareness that he was in fact dreaming. Then there was the even more fascinating feeling that he could study the place and tilt the events of the dream.

"You can look around and examine the details and pick up a handful of sand on the beach," Nolan said. "I never particularly found a limit to that; that is to say, that while in that state your brain can fill in all that reality. I tried to work that idea of manipulation and management of a conscious dream being a skill that these people have. Really the script is based on those common, very basic experiences and concepts, and where can those take you? And the only outlandish idea that the film presents, really, is the existence of a technology that allows you to enter and share the same dream as someone else."

It was the success of "The Dark Knight" (which broke records as a home video release and now stands as the bestselling Blu-ray ever) that allowed Nolan to put his most ambitious idea on the screen. The presence of DiCaprio not only gave Nolan a major movie star, it led to changes in the film that may make it more accessible to moviegoers.

"I've incorporated a huge number of his ideas," Nolan said. "Leo's very analytical, particularly from character point of view but also how the entire story is going to function and relate to his character . . . It's actually been an interesting set of conversations, and I think it's improved the project enormously. I think the emotional life of the character now drives the story more than it did before."

Critics of Nolan say that he makes frosty films with no detectable human heartbeat, just the clicks and whirls of his intricate story gears. It's interesting, then, to consider that contributions by DiCaprio (who is coming off another dark fever dream of a movie, Martin Scorsese's "Shutter Island") and how they meshed with Nolan's own revised view of his original "Inception" story.

"I originally wrote it as a heist movie, and heist movies traditionally are very deliberately superficial in emotional terms," Nolan said. "They're frivolous and glamorous, and there's a sort of gloss and fun to it. I originally tried to write it that way, but when I came back to it I realized that -- to me -- that didn't work for a film that relies so heavily on the idea of the interior state, the idea of dream and memory. I realized I needed to raise the emotional stakes. What we found in working on 'Batman' is that it's the emotionalism that best connects the audience with the material. The character issues, those are the things that pull the audience through it and amplify the experience no matter how strange things get."

Altered states and untrusted perception are recurring themes in Nolan's films: "Memento" is about an amnesia victim; "Insomnia" (2002) presents a corrupt cop addled by lack of sleep; "The Prestige" (2006) is about rival illusionists; and in the two Gotham City films (the first was "Batman Begins" in 2005) there are no truly super-powered citizens, but the senses are blurred by fear toxins and ninja mind tricks. In all of them, Nolan put a premium on achieving the unreal on camera as opposed to in computer, which runs counter to Hollywood's obsession with the pixel possibilities of green screen and 3-D. With cinematographer Wally Pfister (Nolan's director of photography since "Memento") and special effects guru Chris Corbould (the man who built the Batmobile and has worked on a dozen James Bond films), the director put a premium on an old-school approach to movie magic.

Corbould's teams, for instance, built giant rotating hallways and a massive tilting nightclub set to film the startling "Inception" scenes when dream-sector physics take a sharp turn into chaos. One of the film's stars, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, spent long, bruising weeks learning to fight in a corridor that spun like a giant hamster wheel.

"It was like some incredible torture device; we thrashed Joseph for weeks," Nolan said. "But in the end we looked at the footage, and it looks unlike anything any of us has seen before. The rhythm of it is unique, and when you watch it, even if you know how it was done, it confuses your perceptions. It's unsettling in a wonderful way . . . we want an extraordinary thing that happens in an ordinary way. That's always been the goal."

"Inception" does have major computer effects: Several vivid sequences show a dream metropolis in churning calamity, a city skyline seems to fold in on itself as a dream begins to lose its shape and, unlike many Hollywood versions of dream surrealism, the scene has the look of a massive mechanical failure, not a morphing, liquid calamity. Nolan's dreams have the sharp edges of Escher, not the syrup drips of Dalí. Architecture is a major influence on the culture of the film too with dreams that are more like blueprints than poems. That speaks to Nolan's longtime interest in architecture. A key scene in "Inception" was filmed at the architecture school at University College London, where Nolan was an English major and also met his future wife and producing partner, Emma Thomas.

There's a temptation to frame the film as a comment on the "otherness" of modern life. These are the days, after all, of second-life movies such as "Avatar," "Surrogates," "Gamer" and the upcoming "Tron: Legacy," all of which place a human consciousness into a separate being.

Nolan, though, shook his head when asked if his "Inception" is part of that cinematic conversation.

"I think ours is of an older school, ours is more of 'The Matrix' variety and the concepts of different levels of reality," Nolan said. "The whole concept of avatars and living life as someone else, there's a relationship to what we're doing, but I think when I first started trying to make this film happen it was very much pulled from that era of movies where you had 'The Matrix,' you had 'Dark City,' you had 'The Thirteenth Floor' and, to a certain extent, you had 'Memento' too. They were based in the principles that the world around you might not be real."

Cillian Murphy, the Irish actor who played the Scarecrow in the two Batman movies and is one of Cobb's targets in "Inception," said that Nolan is creating a body of work that feels somehow more mature than some of his bright- fantasy peers. "It's the fantasy world, but it's the one that the mind itself can create or fall into, so the audience can access it in a different way than these other movies where you go to another planet or something," Murphy said. "It's the place the mind goes, and it's often very dark and always interesting."


Cast into a strange world

The cast for "Inception" is peppered with Nolan favorites, such as Murphy, Ken Watanabe (who was in "Batman Begins") and Michael Caine (who appeared in the director's last three films), as well as veteran actors such as Tom Berenger whose face fits the filmmaker's universe of grim choices and gun-metal hues. The film gives much of its prime screen time, however, to a pair of younger actors: 29-year-old Gordon-Levitt, who grew up on screen in the television comedy "3rd Rock from the Sun" and solidified his film profile with "(500) Days of Summer," and 23-year-old Ellen Page, who was nominated for an Oscar for "Juno." Those two play junior partners in DiCaprio's dream team.

Sipping tea in her trailer during a break in shooting last year, Page seemed a bit overwhelmed by the set, which was housed inside the converted old zeppelin hangar. "I've never really seen anything like this," she said. "It's humbling." It's the same place that Nolan used for his Batman films; Arkham Asylum, the Narrows and other Gotham City landmarks are still standing, waiting for the inevitable third Batman film that will almost certainly be Nolan's next project. That topic, though, is verboten on the "Inception" set, as is the Superman franchise that Nolan and Thomas will be trying to get off the ground in the next few years. ("I would never ask, and you shouldn't either," Murphy said with an expression of alarm. "He's got enough on his plate without us getting all fanboy on him.")

"Inception" plays to Nolan's two proven strengths -- massive scale and psychological puzzles -- but Page said what makes him a singular filmmaker is that he would attempt a summer film that evokes literature and architecture in an era when other directors seem to be tilting toward a video-game aesthetic.

"There's a tangible realism even when it gets crazy, and somehow that makes the jeopardy feel more real," Page said. "It's like reading a Haruki Murakami novel -- it's fantasy, but instead of feeling like some strange surreal world it feels very honest. The emotional spine of the story is there too, which is the key to his movies. There's the big scale, but the sincerity isn't left behind. The story is complicated but never confusing."

Time will tell if Nolan can build a major commercial success out of his mysterious blueprints, but he has already proved to be the rare blockbuster director willing to wander the dream world of challenging cinema.

"I always find myself gravitating to the analogy of a maze," he said. "Think of film noir and if you picture the story as a maze, you don't want to be hanging above the maze watching the characters make the wrong choices because it's frustrating. You actually want to be in the maze with them, making the turns at their side, that keeps it more exciting . . . I quite like to be in that maze."

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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jigga
Charter member
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Sun Apr-04-10 04:02 AM

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8. "I quite like to be in that maze too & this shit right here's jigga:"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Ever since he
>was a youngster, he says, he was intrigued by the way he would
>wake up and then, while he fell back into a lighter sleep,
>hold on to the awareness that he was in fact dreaming. Then
>there was the even more fascinating feeling that he could
>study the place and tilt the events of the dream.


>"You can look around and examine the details and pick up a
>handful of sand on the beach," Nolan said. "I never
>particularly found a limit to that; that is to say, that while
>in that state your brain can fill in all that reality.

Just had a dream last night where this happened & I'm always fascinated when it does.

The presence of DiCaprio not only gave
>Nolan a major movie star, it led to changes in the film that
>may make it more accessible to moviegoers.
>
>"I've incorporated a huge number of his ideas," Nolan said.
>"Leo's very analytical, particularly from character point of
>view but also how the entire story is going to function and
>relate to his character . . . It's actually been an
>interesting set of conversations, and I think it's improved
>the project enormously. I think the emotional life of the
>character now drives the story more than it did before."

Watch out Marty. Nolan bout to steal your boy.

>"I always find myself gravitating to the analogy of a maze,"
>he said. "Think of film noir and if you picture the story as a
>maze, you don't want to be hanging above the maze watching the
>characters make the wrong choices because it's frustrating.
>You actually want to be in the maze with them, making the
>turns at their side, that keeps it more exciting . . . I quite
>like to be in that maze."

  

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xangeluvr
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Tue Jul-06-10 10:01 PM

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35. "100% on RT so far"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

only 8 reviews, but still. let's see how long it keeps the perfect record.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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bleekgilliam_420
Charter member
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Sat May-08-10 01:52 PM

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9. "new trailer...it looks real fucking good"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNz1edBioO0

---------------------------------------

http://twitter.com/malael

  

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Mic_Specialist
Member since Nov 26th 2003
28927 posts
Sat May-08-10 03:48 PM

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10. "i will be there. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

instagram: http://instagram.com/micspecial
photoblog:http://alannakkash.wordpress.com/
photography:http://www.flickr.com/photos/micspecial/
music:http://www.last.fm/user/MicSpecial/
XBOX live: micspecial

  

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dunk
Member since Aug 05th 2006
8024 posts
Mon May-10-10 01:04 AM

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11. "ill go on the record saying that..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

this will be the best movie of the summer and one of the best of the year. the concept, the cast, the director behind - pretty much everything looks like it's going to be great. The only weak point in the whole film that i've seen so far is Ellen Page as the love interest but she may surprise me.

The new trailer is amazing.

  

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JungleSouljah
Member since Sep 24th 2002
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Mon May-10-10 11:34 AM

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13. "I was pretty amped for this after the first trailer"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Now only more so. This has potential to be a cross between Memento (in terms of the mind fuckery) and his Batman films (in terms of action). That sounds like the makings of a great movie to me.

I'm excited to see this craziness in IMAX. Any word if it was shot in IMAX like sections of The Dark Knight?

______________________________
PSN: RuptureMD
http://hospitalstories.wordpress.com/

The 4th Annual Residency Encampment: Where do we go from here?

All you see is crime in the source code.

  

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raptor44
Member since Dec 11th 2004
1161 posts
Mon May-10-10 02:58 PM

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15. "IMAX"
In response to Reply # 13


          


>I'm excited to see this craziness in IMAX. Any word if it was
>shot in IMAX like sections of The Dark Knight?

I'm pretty sure I read that they didn't shoot it in IMAX because of all of the effects or something, but they did shoot it on 60mm film which is the highest quality film outside of actually shooting IMAX... so no IMAX, but it will still be crisp as hell. Again, I'm not 100% I'm right about all of this, but I'm pretty sure.

  

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jigga
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14. "I agree, but I think Marion Colltiard is the love interest"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>this will be the best movie of the summer and one of the best
>of the year. the concept, the cast, the director behind -
>pretty much everything looks like it's going to be great. The
>only weak point in the whole film that i've seen so far is
>Ellen Page as the love interest but she may surprise me.
>
>The new trailer is amazing.

  

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dunk
Member since Aug 05th 2006
8024 posts
Mon May-10-10 05:28 PM

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16. "yup, you're right"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

i forgot she's in this. Makes me even more excited

  

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xangeluvr
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9014 posts
Mon May-10-10 01:46 AM

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12. "damn, still 2.5 months away"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when this post got bumped i thought this was coming out soon. damn.

can't wait to see this.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Mon May-10-10 08:35 PM

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17. "this shit gonna be GOOD. (i hope)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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AZ
Charter member
12930 posts
Thu May-13-10 11:57 PM

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18. "looks amazing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

definitely the movie i'm most looking forward to this summer

  

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xangeluvr
Charter member
9014 posts
Mon Jul-05-10 05:49 PM

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19. "up 'cause its almost here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i can't wait to see this!

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Mon Jul-05-10 07:22 PM

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20. "Early reviews are fucking GLOWING!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/07/05/early-buzz-christopher-nolans-inception/

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Jul-05-10 10:08 PM

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21. "2:28"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-05-10 10:13 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

BECAUSE WE NEED TO KNOW ALL MOTHERNFUCKING INFORMATION ABOUT THIS MOVIEE GODMANIT DON'T BEE AN ASS HOLE ZOO TOWNS

Also, as bwood has pointed out, early reviews say that it's awesome but that it's a little tedious and might test the patience of viewers expecting clear-cut answers and might demand multiple viewings for everything to make sense.

Ut-oh.

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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xangeluvr
Charter member
9014 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:12 AM

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22. "GOOD!! this is exactly what i want"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>Also, as bwood has pointed out, early reviews say that it's
>awesome but that it's a little tedious and might test the
>patience of viewers expecting clear-cut answers and might
>demand multiple viewings for everything to make sense.
>
>Ut-oh.

i hate when movies cater to dumb audiences.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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Rjcc
Charter member
94964 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:13 AM

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23. "fuck. and. that."
In response to Reply # 22


          

you shouldn't *have to watch something twice.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Pinko_Panther
Member since Dec 11th 2002
11808 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 04:44 AM

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472. "You don't have to if you have a fully functioning brain."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

********************************************
"If you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed room with a mosquito."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49415 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:35 AM

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24. "Okay, I am officially not reading anything else about this movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've got enough info to just want to go see it and be surprised.

**********

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:12 PM

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25. ""
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>I've got enough info to just want to go see it and be
>surprised.

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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Nopayne
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
52628 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:59 PM

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26. "I've been looking forward to this."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hell, I might even pay to see it.

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:34 PM

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27. "I am hype as all hell for this....10 bloody days left, 10!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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da_illest_one
Member since Apr 09th 2005
1761 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 04:33 PM

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28. "First film I'll see in theaters this summer,,,"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Iron Man 2 doesn't count since it came out before summer offically began.

My gross projections for this film is at least $200 million in the first weekend....

On The Lookout 4:
some new music. WTF is going on this year?

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 05:11 PM

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30. "fat chance. i wish. but cmon."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


>
>My gross projections for this film is at least $200 million in
>the first weekend....

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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da_illest_one
Member since Apr 09th 2005
1761 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 05:18 PM

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31. "this summer was suffering, It really might happen....."
In response to Reply # 30
Tue Jul-06-10 05:18 PM by da_illest_one

  

          

this summer was bloated with unnecessary sequels, requels, and adaptations of television series and cartoons. This is basically the first original film to come out this summer. Plus with the Dark Night association thats placed on its banner this film is going to make much bank.

On The Lookout 4:
some new music. WTF is going on this year?

  

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will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 07:13 PM

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32. "no way. Iron Man 2 didn't pull that off."
In response to Reply # 28


          

neither did Avatar. or Transformers 2.

--------

  

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da_illest_one
Member since Apr 09th 2005
1761 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 09:25 PM

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34. "Its the Dark Knight of this summer..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

And Avatar's first weekend was sluggish because of that winter storm we had in December....

On The Lookout 4:
some new music. WTF is going on this year?

  

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Rjcc
Charter member
94964 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:45 PM

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36. "dark knight was a sequel and had the name BATMAN on it."
In response to Reply # 34


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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da_illest_one
Member since Apr 09th 2005
1761 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 07:15 AM

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40. "really? I didn't know that..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

You may have not understood what I mean by the Dark Knight (best blockbuster to come out in a summer season ever!!!) of this summer then. This the film that most people were anticipating to come out and the first film of this summer to really have an impressive earning potential thus making it the Dark Knight of this summer.

On The Lookout 4:
some new music. WTF is going on this year?

  

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will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 08:48 AM

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41. "I still say it'll be nowhere close to making 200 million"
In response to Reply # 40


          

during it's opening week. yeah, The Dark Knight did 240 million when it first dropped -- but it was an action sequel that had years of hype, a pop culture icon, a more focused marketing plan and the general intrigue of Ledger's final performance.

Inception doesn't have the same earmarks of a record-setting opener. the premise is vague. Leo is a star but doesn't automatically print money with accomplished directors (Shutter Island, The Departed). the economy is depressed and the movie industry has seen declining grosses since TDK released.

besides, what have been the biggest recent hits in the sci-fi thriller genre? Minority Report (which featured a comparable lead and director)? The Matrix and it's first sequel (which was more of an action piece)?

--------

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 12:53 PM

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259. "Yeah, it did 60"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Which is not really the same as 200.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 04:50 PM

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29. "dunno"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the first trailer was very matrixy
now i feel like they are giving away too much
maybe i want to manage my expectations
so i will come away happy
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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notnac
Charter member
1607 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 07:20 PM

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33. ""
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/a-man-and-his-dream-christopher-nolan-and-inception/

  

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xangeluvr
Charter member
9014 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:05 PM

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37. "100% on RT so far"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

whoops, accidentally posted this under the wrong post above.

anyway, only a few reviews in so let's see how long the perfect record lasts.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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araQual
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42162 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 12:46 AM

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38. "i dont think ive been this geeked for a film in a long time"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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xangeluvr
Charter member
9014 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 05:26 AM

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39. "any SEATTLE okp's wanna hit IMAX thur night/fri morn??"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

anyone up for the first showing at 12:01 am friday morning? i just checked and there's still tickets. $15.25 a ticket.

if i ever go to the theater, which isn't often anymore, i love seeing late shows since i work nights.

hit the inbox, we can meet somewhere in the area like dick's or something for a quick snack beforehand.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 11:22 PM

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43. "goddamn 15 bucks wtf???"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

aint no way in hell i'd pay 15 bucks to see a movie

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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xangeluvr
Charter member
9014 posts
Tue Jul-13-10 12:48 AM

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45. "actually, it's worth it"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>aint no way in hell i'd pay 15 bucks to see a movie

seattle imax is a REAL IMAX theater and not one of the newer fake one-third of the size bullshit screens that popped up over the last few years.

more than that though, any movie i've ever seen there the audiences have always been kick ass. by that i mean that nobody talks when they're not supposed to, uses cell phones, is crackling candy wrappers all the time, etc...

its pretty much the only theater i will go to nowadays. i used to see 1 to 2 movies a week and over the last few years only see maybe 6-8 movies in the theaters a year simply due to stupid obnoxious crowds. yeah the imax theaters are pricier, but it seems like when you pay that much to go the people behave more because they want to watch the movie and get their money's worth.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-13-10 01:19 AM

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46. "shit movies are like $11 now anyway"
In response to Reply # 45


          

--------

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Tue Jul-13-10 06:57 AM

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48. "damn locals here are like 7.50. 6 w/ college discount iirc"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 10:18 AM

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58. "THEE IMAX theater in Seattle is $13.75 if you buy em on the spot "
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

They charge a $2.50 fee if you buy em online but I never do. One of the benefits of living within walking distance to the theater.

  

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rob
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23210 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 11:40 PM

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44. "ima be seeing it opening night with a group but i don't know where we're..."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

  

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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
11224 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 10:53 PM

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42. "Just got back from screening - FUCKING AWESOME"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I cannot begin to go into how much I enjoyed this movie.
I'll be back later with a more detailed review.
All I'll say now is - GO SEE THIS MOVIE THIS WEEKEND.
Eff a "World's Deadliest Game" version of Predator.
Eff a cartoon Steve Carrell.
Eff a teenage vampire.
Eff a bald kid who can bend air.
Eff a cornrow'd kid who can kick.
GO SEE INCEPTION THIS OPENING WEEKEND!!!!!


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43744 posts
Tue Jul-13-10 02:16 AM

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47. "Went to a screening tonight. It's fucking great. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just stunningly awesome in some parts.

More later.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Tue Jul-13-10 12:43 PM

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49. "AP rarely gives out four star reviews..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap.org/review-inception-fourstar-mind-trip-ap

Thursday night can't come fast enough...

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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jigga
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Tue Jul-13-10 02:17 PM

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50. "Exceptional (no spoilage)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And now it all makes sense why it took him a decade off & on to write this script. I could try to nitpick it apart to see how well it holds up with all the rules but I want to watch it again first. I think much like Memento there'll be different interpretations & many shades of grey. Especially regarding The Shade herself whom I'm glad was kept in the dark for most of the trailers & clips. She shady!

Saw it last night & I'm going again tonight. Thought about just waiting til Friday for IMAX but fuck it. My mind can't rest til then. I can already tell several shots/scenes are going to look absolutely astonishing there.

This worked well as both a heist & sci-fi flick but simultaneously set itself apart as a genre of it's own to be followed by any future ambitious filmakers. Multiple motivations at play put me in suspense throughout the flick. Emo DiCaprio does a great job playing The Extractor with the hidden agenda. I thought Cillian Murphy's character arc could've been wrapped up better but I also see what Nolan did there. Ken Wanatabe gets off some great lines but he was also hard to understand at times. I certainly wont be shocked to see JGL &/or Tom Hardy show up in the next Batman movie. Solid supporting performances & comic relief from both of them. Juno was janky but she beasts here too.

The beginging of The Pretige asked, "Are You Watching Closely?"

Inception requires you to listen carefully. And remember what was said earlier once the dreams start shifting & collapsing. It can be a confusing but ultimately fun ride til the wheels fall off & into the water. The finishing shot is fucking perfect tho. Haters gonna hate but I saw it comin as soon as it started spinnin jigga it's spinnin!

Fuckin A

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Tue Jul-13-10 10:02 PM

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52. "Jigg...quick question (SEMI SPOILER...just don't look if you havent seen..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

SPOILER

Like seriously...I'd inbox this, but I have a question for others who have seen this, and would like this for posterity for when others DO...

Seriously...SPOILER...




















Last WARNING - SPOILER...


















While I liked Shutter Island, I think this film will be unfairly compared to it because of the dream stuff and Leo...what do you think?

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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jigga
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Wed Jul-14-10 09:37 AM

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55. "RE: Jigg...quick question (SEMI SPOILER...just don't look if you havent ..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>SPOILER
>
>Like seriously...I'd inbox this, but I have a question for
>others who have seen this, and would like this for posterity
>for when others DO...
>
>Seriously...SPOILER...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Last WARNING - SPOILER...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>While I liked Shutter Island, I think this film will be
>unfairly compared to it because of the dream stuff and
>Leo...what do you think?

You know it's funny you mention that because I still haven't seen Shutter Island & purposely waited until after Inception to check it out once I kinda heard what it's about. I have the screener at home somewhere & will watch it soon tho.

  

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al_sharp
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81. "word..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

i even said to my girl on the ride home that it was the 2nd movie leo did in a row that ended pretty much exactly like that.

well not EXACTLY...but you know what i'm tawnbout.


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

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universally_speaking
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Mon Jul-19-10 02:58 PM

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274. "i thought the same thing..."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

____________________________
Bringin it to you live in stere-ere-o.

  

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noahbird
Member since Jul 12th 2002
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Wed Jul-28-10 12:19 AM

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502. "RE: Co-sign"
In response to Reply # 274


          

I said that very thing to my friend as we were leaving the theater

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Tue Jul-13-10 10:00 PM

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51. "No spoilers review."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's about 20 hours later, and I'm still thinking about Inception. It's an incredible mind-bender of a film, and one I think will have GREAT word of mouth. In short, it's the best film I've seen this year...and what a fucking original idea.

First off - Leo, as always, is a beast. Joseph Gordon Levitt actually reminds me of a young Leo (pre Aviator) in that he pulls his role off, but looks far too young to do it. Ken Wantanabe is a standout, but I agree with other reviews - there are far too many times in which you can barely understand what he says. Regardless, he has GREAT lines and his character is immensely entertaining.

I saw this film with a Q&A afterwards with Chris Nolan who described it as a heist movie taking place in the world of dreams - but unlike traditional heist films, where the exposition is the fun part of the film, he had to get a LOT of exposition in, and have the viewer buy into it, relatively quickly. Also, he said doing The Dark Knight was likely the only way he would have ever been confident enough to pull a project like this off - and he has had 80 pages written of it for about 10 years, but it wasn't until his recent outlook on life where he found a way to make the story work.

Tom Hardy is fucking brilliant.

It's awesome to see so many faces from the Batman flicks in this one too.

It's a genius film I can't wait to go see again when it opens...cause dammit, there are some DEFINITE revisit type moments.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Auk_The_Blind
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
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Tue Jul-13-10 11:27 PM

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53. "RE: No spoilers review."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>Ken
>Wantanabe is a standout, but I agree with other reviews -
>there are far too many times in which you can barely
>understand what he says.

Is this because of an awkward sound mix or that his character is unintelligible?

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Tue Jul-13-10 11:57 PM

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54. "A little of both."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

But mostly a heavy accent...though its not always that way. It's complex dialog handled by an actor with a heavy accent...not unlike Salma Hayek sometimes.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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jigga
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56. "The situations the character goes through made him inaudible too"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

>But mostly a heavy accent...though its not always that way.
>It's complex dialog handled by an actor with a heavy
>accent...not unlike Salma Hayek sometimes.

But he was somewhat hard to understand in Batman Begins as well. Brilliant actor tho.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jul-14-10 10:06 AM

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57. "I've officially decide to stop reading about the movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

because I want that surprise feeling walking into it. Will check in after I have seen it over the weekend.

**********

  

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eldealo
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Thu Jul-15-10 01:55 AM

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59. "what did you think of the score? i bought it, and i'm"
In response to Reply # 0


          

probably even more excited to see the film now. sparse at times, and builds appropriately to some real dramatic tones later. i love shit like this. perhaps that is a bit funny to some?
-------------------------------------------
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jigga
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60. "I wish the score in the trailer was used in the film at some point"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

I guess it sorta is but it's toned down a bit. I like it blaring tho.

Just found out the other night that Johnny Marr was on the guitar when him, Hans, & a 20-piece orchestra performed the score at the premiere the other night. Here's the link if you wanna check it out:

http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/07/14/watch-hans-zimmer-performing-inception-score-at-premiere/

>probably even more excited to see the film now. sparse at
>times, and builds appropriately to some real dramatic tones
>later. i love shit like this. perhaps that is a bit funny to
>some?

I didn't notice the score much the 1st time I saw it but then a buddy asked me how it was before I saw it a 2nd time with him & that's when I recalled not hearing the same sound bites from the trailer. Payin more attention to it on a 2nd listen I can tell you that the music used in the flashback scenes between Dom & Mal stood out most to me.

  

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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
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Thu Jul-15-10 06:51 PM

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63. "Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with jigga"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

I didn't notice the score all that much the first time I saw it (and I'm usually pretty good about noticing it).
I'm gonna be seeing the movie again tomorrow, I'll make sure to check for it.
Yeah, liked the movie so much that even though I saw it for free on Monday, I'm gonna pay to see it on Friday.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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jigga
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Fri Jul-16-10 09:29 AM

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76. "It's tough to focus on the score the first time with all that's going on"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

>I didn't notice the score all that much the first time I saw
>it (and I'm usually pretty good about noticing it).
>I'm gonna be seeing the movie again tomorrow, I'll make sure
>to check for it.
>Yeah, liked the movie so much that even though I saw it for
>free on Monday, I'm gonna pay to see it on Friday.

Jeah I saw it for free Monday & Tuesday but I still gotta see it on an IMAX screen today & don't mind throwin down the dough for it.

  

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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
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Fri Jul-16-10 11:43 PM

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101. "after seeing it a second time"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

I'm surprised at how little the score is present in the film. Especially considering how much music is in The Dark Knight.
Overall I like the music, but not really present that much in the movie.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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chillinCHiEF
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142. "That shit was so fucking epic, especially towards the end"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

I just ordered it off Amazon.

  

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LA2Philly
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Thu Jul-15-10 02:03 PM

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61. "Got my Imax tickets for the 12:15 showing tomm at the Metreon"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

HURRY UP CLOCK!.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Rjcc
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"my hate campaign is rapidly falling apart. fuck. fuck. fuck."


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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62. "my hate campaign is rapidly falling apart. fuck. fuck. fuck."
In response to Reply # 0


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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BigReg
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Thu Jul-15-10 07:18 PM

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64. "Could just be overrated like the Dark Knight"
In response to Reply # 62
Thu Jul-15-10 07:20 PM by BigReg

  

          

Figure considering all the good movies that came out this summer...make that NONE...the critics are starved for anything that's halfway good.

But I think it's gonna be bananas, got my tix for opening night

  

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Rjcc
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65. "I have nothing to stand on for this agenda"
In response to Reply # 64


          

leo's a pretty good actor

nolan's not an idiot.


I've got the slim thread that pretty much anything in a dream sequence is bullshit, and theres the distinct possibility the ENTIRE MOVIE is a dream sequence which would totally be bullshit

but like... what if it's not bullshit somehow?

what if it's mostly adequate in the handling of the story and the characters???

shitttttttttttttttttttttt

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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69. "eh, it was alright"
In response to Reply # 65


          

the boy nolan is going for goat status and a lot of people will want to give it to him

at least someone's putting imax and all this special effects technology to some good use.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Stevie Lee
Member since Aug 17th 2008
1189 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 02:20 AM

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70. "It was better than "alright""
In response to Reply # 69


          

  

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Rjcc
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74. "yes, it was."
In response to Reply # 70


          

but it hasn't joined my list of my favorite movies.

I didn't really connect with the characters enough, and that's important to me, although it was probably for the best for this flick. to get the kind of background I'd want, it would have to be like a six hour miniseries, although I figure there's gotta be another half hour to an hour on the cutting room floor somewhere.

it's incredibly tight to be a two and a half hour movie.

i accused nolan of biting off more than he could chew and I was right, but he pulled it off anyway.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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mrshow
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Sat Jul-17-10 05:07 AM

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115. "Theres some very good stuff in it but..."
In response to Reply # 74


          

it's pretty empty. Some very long actions sequences with incredibly wooden exposition (particularly in the beginning). He did a nice job with casting but it's another Nolan flick that feels strangely flat to me. Is anyone really thinking this is a mind-fuck on par with 2001 or Mulholland Drive?

  

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Rjcc
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119. "people are gonna say it is, but it really isn't."
In response to Reply # 115


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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mrshow
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146. "How did you feel about it overall?"
In response to Reply # 119


          

I thought it was an, at times, very entertaining way to spend 2 hours but not incredible to me on any real level. It's pretty much how I felt "I Love You, Man".

  

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Rjcc
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150. "it was great, and I'd watch it again right now"
In response to Reply # 146


          

i'm def gonna buy it when it comes out on blu-ray.

but it's not one of my favorite movies, and i'd kinda look sideways at anyone who said it was one of theirs

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www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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KingMonte
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Thu Jul-15-10 09:08 PM

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66. "So is it worth the IMAX or not?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43744 posts
Thu Jul-15-10 09:19 PM

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67. "Depends on if stuff was shot in IMAX or not."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

If it's true IMAX - hell fucking yes. There are some great sequences. If not, then you're certainly not missing anything.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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KingMonte
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Thu Jul-15-10 11:24 PM

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68. "Nolan says he did, but I hope it's an extra $15 good"
In response to Reply # 67
Thu Jul-15-10 11:25 PM by KingMonte

  

          

.

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

  

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JungleSouljah
Member since Sep 24th 2002
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Fri Jul-16-10 08:54 AM

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75. "He says he shot it in 60 or 70mm I think"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

basically the highest film quality that's not IMAX.

I'm seeing it at the nice Icon Showplace in Chicago on Saturday night and then catching an afternoon IMAX show on Tuesday. I can let you know by Tuesday night.

But I think some folks who have already seen it are gonna catch the IMAX tonight so they can tell you if it's worth it or not.

______________________________
PSN: RuptureMD
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The 4th Annual Residency Encampment: Where do we go from here?

All you see is crime in the source code.

  

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Rjcc
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80. "everything I read said 35mm, I saw it at the liemax, it was dope"
In response to Reply # 75


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 03:10 AM

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71. "fucking great movie, my fav of the year thus far"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the cast and story were amazing, the effects were great too but what really made it for me was the story and the cast

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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BennyTenStack
Member since Sep 09th 2007
5681 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 03:50 AM

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72. "Great movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What a unique concept for a film. I loved it. And it really wasn't as hard to follow as I originally thought it would be...as long as you pay attention, it's easy to grasp.

  

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araQual
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73. "goin to midnite IMAX sesh on Wednesday, ripped outta my brain lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i haven't looked forward to such a stoned audiovisual feast since......i saw The Dark Knight stoned @ IMAX two yrs ago lol.

V.

---
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DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 09:41 AM

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77. "Nolan's materpiece"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is the only movie that had me clutching my are rests from beginning to end. The all-star cast really did their thing and the story was phenomenal labyrinth. James Cameron doesn't have shit on Christopher Nolan.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 11:41 PM

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100. "Co-sign"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

>James Cameron doesn't have shit on Christopher Nolan.




"Justice is what love looks like in public."
-Cornel West

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Sat Jul-17-10 09:02 AM

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124. "This movie is the lithmus test for old critics vs. young critics"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

Its funny to see the split opinions on metacritic and I guarantee you all the negative reviews are from old critics who think 2001 is the greatest sci-fi movie ever. For a younger crowd who find stars wars quaint, silly and a bit juvenile, and thought the first Matrix was the best sci-fi movie in the last 10 years, this movie will be there new favorite.

**********

  

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Rjcc
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Sat Jul-17-10 09:52 PM

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141. "I think if this movie is your favorite you need to see more movies"
In response to Reply # 124


          

not because it's bad, but because there's not much to connect to other than the desire to create, which I don't think is terribly interesting.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Sun Jul-18-10 12:45 AM

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144. "I dunno man"
In response to Reply # 124


          

I loved 2001 and Star Wars (VI and V) but, I didn't find The Matrix to be a genre cornerstone as much as pushing the technological boundaries. And this is coming from a guy who enjoyed the shit out the first Matrix. With that all said I love Inception because it manages to blend story and action together perfectly with more emphasis on the story. And it threw in shades of noir.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Jul-29-10 02:48 PM

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505. "ironically alot of critics ripped 2001 when it originally came out"
In response to Reply # 124


          

>Its funny to see the split opinions on metacritic and I
>guarantee you all the negative reviews are from old critics
>who think 2001 is the greatest sci-fi movie ever. For a
>younger crowd who find stars wars quaint, silly and a bit
>juvenile, and thought the first Matrix was the best sci-fi
>movie in the last 10 years, this movie will be there new
>favorite.

  

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xbenzive
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Fri Jul-16-10 10:22 AM

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78. "WTF?!?!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I need to see this again. Not only is it a mindfuck of a film, the concept and execution is wonderful. Here's a filmmaker that's actually challenging the audience to pay attention, not only to the plot but to the exposition. The music, the vision, and the acting is all great. The flaws are certainly overshadowed by idea.

  

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okaycomputer
Member since Dec 02nd 2002
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Fri Jul-16-10 10:51 AM

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79. "BRRRRRRRRMMMMMM.....BRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM"
In response to Reply # 0


          

IMAX 6:30 tonight...I CANNOT FREAKING WAIT!!!!!

  

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CliffDogg
Member since Dec 19th 2004
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Tue Jul-20-10 09:31 PM

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345. "http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Inception-Vuvuzela.j..."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Inception-Vuvuzela.jpg

----

THFC
F1
MotoGP

  

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al_sharp
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Fri Jul-16-10 11:57 AM

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82. "caught a midnite showing last nite..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

shit is pretty incredible. the glowing reviews ain't just hype.

want to see again. now.


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

http://twitter.com/shamelessplug
http://youlooklikecraptoday.com

  

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al_sharp
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83. "ebert review..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100714/REVIEWS/100719997

It's said that Christopher Nolan spent ten years writing his screenplay for "Inception." That must have involved prodigious concentration, like playing blindfold chess while walking a tight-wire. The film's hero tests a young architect by challenging her to create a maze, and Nolan tests us with his own dazzling maze. We have to trust him that he can lead us through, because much of the time we're lost and disoriented. Nolan must have rewritten this story time and again, finding that every change had a ripple effect down through the whole fabric.

The story can either be told in a few sentences, or not told at all. Here is a movie immune to spoilers: If you knew how it ended, that would tell you nothing unless you knew how it got there. And telling you how it got there would produce bafflement. The movie is all about process, about fighting our way through enveloping sheets of reality and dream, reality within dreams, dreams without reality. It's a breathtaking juggling act, and Nolan may have considered his "Memento" (2000) a warm-up; he apparently started this screenplay while filming that one. It was the story of a man with short-term memory loss, and the story was told backwards.

Like the hero of that film, the viewer of "Inception" is adrift in time and experience. We can never even be quite sure what the relationship between dream time and real time is. The hero explains that you can never remember the beginning of a dream, and that dreams that seem to cover hours may only last a short time. Yes, but you don't know that when you’re dreaming. And what if you're inside another man's dream? How does your dream time synch with his? What do you really know?

Cobb (Leonardo DiCaprio) is a corporate raider of the highest order. He infiltrates the minds of other men to steal their ideas. Now he is hired by a powerful billionaire to do the opposite: To introduce an idea into a rival's mind, and do it so well he believes it is his own. This has never been done before; our minds are as alert to foreign ideas as our immune system is to pathogens. The rich man, named Saito (Ken Watanabe), makes him an offer he can't refuse, an offer that would end Cobb's forced exile from home and family.

Cobb assembles a team, and here the movie relies on the well-established procedures of all heist movies. We meet the people he will need to work with: Arthur (Joseph Gordon-Levitt), his longtime associate; Eames (Tom Hardy), a master at deception; Yusuf (Dileep Rao), a master chemist. And there is a new recruit, Ariadne (Ellen Page), a brilliant young architect who is a prodigy at creating spaces. Cobb also goes to touch base with his father-in-law Miles (Michael Caine), who knows what he does and how he does it. These days Michael Caine need only appear on a screen and we assume he's wiser than any of the other characters. It's a gift.

But wait. Why does Cobb need an architect to create spaces in dreams? He explains to her. Dreams have a shifting architecture, as we all know; where we seem to be has a way of shifting. Cobb's assignment is the "inception" (or birth, or wellspring) of a new idea in the mind of another young billionaire, Robert Fischer Jr. (Cillian Murphy), heir to his father's empire. Saito wants him to initiate ideas that will lead to the surrender of his rival's corporation. Cobb needs Ariadne
to create a deceptive maze-space in Fischer's dreams so that (I think) new thoughts can slip in unperceived. Is it a coincidence that Ariadne is named for the woman in Greek mythology who helped Theseus escape from the Minotaur's labyrinth?

Cobb tutors Ariadne on the world of dream infiltration, the art of controlling dreams and navigating them. Nolan uses this as a device for tutoring us as well. And also as the occasion for some of the movie's astonishing special effects, which seemed senseless in the trailer but now fit right in. The most impressive to me takes place (or seems to) in Paris, where the city literally rolls back on itself like a roll of linoleum tile.

Protecting Fischer are any number of gun-wielding bodyguards, who may be working like the mental equivalent of antibodies; they seem alternatively real and figurative, but whichever they are, they lead to a great many gunfights, chase scenes and explosions, which is the way movies depict conflict these days. So skilled is Nolan that he actually got me involved in one of his chases, when I thought I was relatively immune to scenes that have become so standard. That was because I cared about who was chasing and being chased.

If you've seen any advertising at all for the film, you know that its architecture has a way of disregarding gravity. Buildings tilt. Streets coil. Characters float. This is all explained in the narrative. The movie is a perplexing labyrinth without a simple through-line, and is sure to inspire truly endless analysis on the web.

Nolan helps us with an emotional thread. The reason Cobb is motivated to risk the dangers of inception is because of grief and guilt involving his wife Mal (Marion Cotillard), and their two children. More I will not (in a way, cannot) say. Cotillard beautifully embodies the wife in an idealized way. Whether we are seeing Cobb's memories or his dreams is difficult to say--even, literally, in the last shot. But she makes Mal function as an emotional magnet, and the love between the two provides an emotional constant in Cobb's world, which is otherwise ceaselessly shifting.

"Inception" works for the viewer, in a way, like the world itself worked for Leonard, the hero of "Memento." We are always in the Now. We have made some notes while getting Here, but we are not quite sure where Here is. Yet matters of life, death and the heart are involved--oh, and those multi-national corporations, of course. And Nolan doesn't pause before using well-crafted scenes from spycraft or espionage, including a clever scheme on board a 747 (even explaining why it must be a 747).

The movies often seem to come from the recycling bin these days: Sequels, remakes, franchises. "Inception" does a difficult thing. It is wholly original, cut from new cloth, and yet structured with action movie basics so it feels like it makes more sense than (quite possibly) it does. I thought there was a hole in "Memento:" How does a man with short-term memory loss remember he has short-term memory loss? Maybe there's a hole in "Inception" too, but I can't find it. Christopher Nolan reinvented "Batman." This time he isn't reinventing anything. Yet few directors will attempt to recycle "Inception." I think when Nolan left the labyrinth, he threw away the map.


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

http://twitter.com/shamelessplug
http://youlooklikecraptoday.com

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 03:54 PM

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87. "oh, a movie about dreams is "immune" to spoilers? lemme guess"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

when it ends, we're not quite sure if the protag is dreaming or not?

am i fucking close, ebert?

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sat Jul-17-10 01:10 AM

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105. "How is that a spoiler?"
In response to Reply # 87
Sat Jul-17-10 01:13 AM by stravinskian

          

Everyone knows that's coming, the only question is how. The issue is directly front and center and out in the open throughout the entire movie. The thing at the end was essentially a joke. A flourish. It's not like that was some kind of "I see dead people" moment.

There are important spoilers in the movie (how exactly Cotillard died, for example), but the fact that nobody's sure whether the real world is real, isn't one of them.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Sat Jul-17-10 05:06 AM

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114. "if how she dies was a big reveal, well it landed with a thud....wack"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Mole
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Fri Jul-16-10 01:29 PM

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84. "WARNING: Do not watch tired and half-drunk..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... you won't understand what the hell is going on. I spontaneously went to a midnight screening last night after seeing "Toy Story 3," and in between drank way too many Indian Pale Ales to make it through a layered 2.5 hour movie without fidgeting like a meth addict just to stay awake.

I suspect I loved it, but I definitely need to see it again before I can say for sure.

___

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v318/75/122/810420595/n810420595_3955028_32.jpg

"You can't imbue awesomeness into something that actually sucks." - Steve Albini

http://www.mpsinger.com
http://twitter.com/mpsinger

  

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ShinobiShaw
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85. "I'm not seeing this at IMAX, should I go back and get IMAX tickets?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



<------ Boho Model Madness Presents, Beauty Foster

http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://www.myspace.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.last.fm/user/ShinoShaw
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c) T510

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 03:41 PM

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86. "it's the fucking matrix...everyone's completely overselling this shit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


nah, nigga, it's the GOTdamn matrix...tryna be slick and add some "levels"...FUCK OUTTA HERE.

"you infected my mind"...cry, cry, cry...schlocky than a mug

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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jigga
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Fri Jul-16-10 04:08 PM

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88. "^^^Still mad Nolan gettin more love than Knight-Dogg & his duds"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 04:23 PM

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89. "oh to the muhfuckan contrary, nigga...i LIKE nolan. "
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

but, this IS the matrix and it's convoluted as fuck.

he couldn't think of a better backstory of how his wife died and how he's somehow to blame than what was offered? she killed herself. end of story. i feel asleep for about 10 minutes somewhere in the middle, so maybe someone can help me.

people just wanted something epic this year, but this can't be it...gotta be some better shit. i'll wait for the adjustment bureau or tron or dat potter...hell, i'll take piranha over this shit.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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jigga
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Fri Jul-16-10 04:55 PM

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90. "Ok you give me your better backstory for Mal then. ^^^(spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 89
Fri Jul-16-10 05:31 PM by jigga

  

          

>but, this IS the matrix and it's convoluted as fuck.
>
>he couldn't think of a better backstory of how his wife died
>and how he's somehow to blame than what was offered?

Meh. I didn't have a problem with it.

she
>killed herself. end of story. i feel asleep for about 10
>minutes somewhere in the middle, so maybe someone can help me.

I don't know exactly which part(s) you missed but I think you get the drift & just wanted something deeper. Which I guess is ok. Until you say some shit like this here.

hell, i'll take piranha over
>this shit.

>people just wanted something epic this year, but this can't be
>it...gotta be some better shit. i'll wait for the adjustment
>bureau

Besides Blunt that looks pretty blah

or tron

Has a chance

or dat potter...hell, i'll take piranha over
>this shit.

Lol

  

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Rjcc
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Fri Jul-16-10 05:05 PM

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91. "the main character and his wife certainly could have been deeper"
In response to Reply # 90


          

not to mention the side characters

it would've been like a four hour movie though

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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jigga
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Fri Jul-16-10 05:20 PM

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92. "I felt the flashbacks were sufficient but he could trim the snow scene"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

& add more depth between the two of them to make it better for sure.

>not to mention the side characters
>
>it would've been like a four hour movie though

& therein lies the rub

I can't think of anything else that should've been cut to allow for more supporting character development. Especially since it's not really about them at the end of the day.

  

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Rjcc
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94. "I completely lost track of who was doing what about 1/4"
In response to Reply # 92


          

of the way through the snow scene

not because I couldn't remember where they were

and I didn't have trouble understanding watanabe,

but they were all wearing the same outfits, I could barely tell who was who

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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al_sharp
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Sat Jul-17-10 04:03 AM

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112. "i honestly don't understand the matrix comparisons..."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

other than the weak comparison of comparing it to it because of the zero gravity hallway fight scenes.

dig if you want. dreams versus computer/fakereality. i still ain't buyin it.


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

http://twitter.com/shamelessplug
http://youlooklikecraptoday.com

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
10119 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 07:40 PM

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176. "completely agree with your assesment"
In response to Reply # 89


          

waay to convulted when it didn't have to be....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 07:49 PM

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178. "The reason for that was one of the best parts of the film IMO. (spoiler)"
In response to Reply # 89


          

Not sure if you missed it but Leo explains that his wife loved being in limbo too much so he went deeper and planted a thought in her head - "this world isn't real." He did it so she'd realize that they have to leave and get back into the real world. But what happened was that, when they were back in the real world, she still had that thought in her head and she couldn't shake it. That's what drover her to kill herself.

Now, of course, one would wonder why he wouldn't have told her that he planted it in her head (which I don't remember happening) so it's not flawless but I thought the idea that, by trying to save her he ended up driving her to her death, was one of the only legit character elements in the film.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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God Loves Ugly
Member since Nov 12th 2002
2880 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 06:22 AM

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211. "Bingo."
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

I was too lazy to type it out, but yeah, that part was definitely explained.

It was the first successful "inception".

Go Wings.

  

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xangeluvr
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Tue Jul-20-10 05:31 AM

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291. "RE: The reason for that was one of the best parts of the film IMO. (spoi..."
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

>Now, of course, one would wonder why he wouldn't have told her
>that he planted it in her head (which I don't remember
>happening) so it's not flawless but I thought the idea that,
>by trying to save her he ended up driving her to her death,
>was one of the only legit character elements in the film.

because if he told her he planted it she wouldn't believe him anyway. remember how he talked about the implanted idea would basically grow and grow until it consumed you? maybe he did tell her, point is that it wouldn't have mattered.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 09:54 AM

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307. "To me, that needs to be shown."
In response to Reply # 291


          

The film becomes mostly about Leo's journey and to have the key moment of said journey be something that we can surmise from one of the many monologues is weak and shouldn't be something that the audience should be guessing he might have done but it didn't matter.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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rob
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23210 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 10:20 PM

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96. "unlike the matrix, its not picking at its own seams. "
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

it doesn't try to explain too much about reality. ain't nothin special about anyone in the movie. its not bigger than whats in your head.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 05:05 AM

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113. "funny...that's ALL it does it try to explain reality"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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rob
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Sat Jul-17-10 06:10 AM

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"not really. it's kinda an anti-matrix."


  

          

  

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rob
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23210 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 06:10 AM

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117. "not really. it's kinda an anti-matrix."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

  

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ShinobiShaw
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Sat Jul-17-10 12:04 AM

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103. "If this is the Matrix, the Matrix is the best movie ever. "
In response to Reply # 86


  

          


<------ Boho Model Madness Presents, Beauty Foster

http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://www.myspace.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.last.fm/user/ShinoShaw
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c) T510

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Sat Jul-17-10 09:42 AM

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125. "You talk like the Matrix invented virtual/alternate realities"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          


**********

  

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BigReg
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62390 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 10:07 AM

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126. "Hell, even in an action film format"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

outside of the hallway fight, I thought it was more blade runner/Total Recall then Matrix

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 09:17 PM

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137. "it invented "bullet time", which is all over inception...you saw it"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Strangelove
Member since Jul 04th 2003
1609 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 08:53 AM

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153. "I don't think so."
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

I'm fairly certain there wasn't one bullet-time shot in the entire movie. Refresh my memory.

—mishapshappening.com—

  

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etfp
Member since Oct 24th 2009
2957 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 03:24 PM

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478. "this guy doesn't know what bullettime is."
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

________
"2ndly u think FAMILY and niggas i done grew up wit for 20+ years
gon let some random nigga
show up and whup my ass on my block
and hop in his corolla and pull off?" spm

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:29 AM

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158. "It's a sci-fi Shutter Island"
In response to Reply # 86
Sun Jul-18-10 10:48 AM by SoulHonky

          

And while I didn't love that film, there were more twists and much better characters/performances. In a weird way, this film could almost be a continuation of the end of Shutter Island.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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rdhull
Charter member
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Sun Jul-18-10 02:48 PM

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166. "RE: It's a sci-fi Shutter Island"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          


I was thinking the same thing and the Leo has wifey issues in his last three flicks lol

  

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rhymesandammo
Member since Dec 07th 2004
6366 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 04:52 PM

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447. "The Matrix + Shutter Island + Casino Royale = Inception."
In response to Reply # 86
Thu Jul-22-10 04:53 PM by rhymesandammo

  

          

Visually stunning, though.

Esteemed author of the celebrated, double-platinum post: "Drake - Wu-Tang Forever".

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Jul-26-10 03:53 PM

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485. "it's the matrix for grown-ups"
In response to Reply # 86


          

>...everyone's completely overselling this shit

hey, just like the matrix.


so if you want to put it that way, yeah I guess.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 06:18 PM

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93. "The story isn't nearly as intricate as people make it out to be."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-16-10 06:18 PM by stravinskian

          

But still, maybe the best bit of Hollywood schlock in the last decade. And I mean that in a fully complimentary way. I may even go back for a late-night showing tonight.

  

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rob
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Fri Jul-16-10 10:21 PM

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97. "honestly, i think thats what saves the movie, but yeah"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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122. "I didn't think so"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

but there are a lot of lost people in the NYTimes review comments section and reviewers on metacritic.

I also think that younger audiences have been better trained to see a movie like this. A lot of things that are givens to us (because we've watched a lot of sci-fi, read comic books, etc.) may not be givens to older audiences.


**********

  

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rob
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Fri Jul-16-10 10:18 PM

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95. "this shit was the shit "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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biscuit
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8682 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 10:39 PM

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98. "That shit was bananas!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My head still hurts.

What the fuck did I just watch?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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Mic_Specialist
Member since Nov 26th 2003
28927 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 11:04 PM

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99. "thats shit was dope. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

instagram: http://instagram.com/micspecial
photoblog:http://alannakkash.wordpress.com/
photography:http://www.flickr.com/photos/micspecial/
music:http://www.last.fm/user/MicSpecial/
XBOX live: micspecial

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 11:54 PM

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102. "1st answer hit the nail on the head"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

absolutely a metaphysical heist

i quite enjoyed it
i feel the need to see it again
and no i did not see it in 3D
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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ShinobiShaw
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Sat Jul-17-10 12:07 AM

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104. "Fucking excellent movie, wish I saw it in IMAX"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but the bluray disc will be copped when it comes out.


<------ Boho Model Madness Presents, Beauty Foster

http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://www.myspace.com/djshinobishaw
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"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c) T510

  

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little bredren
Member since Apr 18th 2005
3286 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 01:12 AM

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106. "questions (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-17-10 01:13 AM by little bredren

  

          

SPOILERS




















1. how did Eames (Tom Hardy) disguise himself as other people within dreams, it it ever explained or are we just supposed to run with the idea that he has this ability?

2. how did Ellen Page and Leo get into to the limbo state? (i dont remember them dying in the 3rd level dream)

3. i understand that Ellen Page creates the structure of the dream/she is the architect, but how does that actually come into play in the dreams, since it's not her dreams that they're in? do they just input her blueprints into the machine that connects everyone together somehow?

4. Marion Cotillard (Mal) and Leo kill themselves in the limbo stage by laying down on the train tracks in order to get back into reality, right? when they get run over by the train, they dont look any older than in reality even though they spent 50 years in limbo and grew old together (Leo says "we grew old" together near the end, and we are shown they're wrinkly old arms and hands for a second or two). how could they have had wrinkly skin if they got out of limbo via death by train before reaching such old age? did they re-enter limbo numerous times? or did they kill themselves via train in a different dream level (ie. not limbo)?

thanks in advance

  

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cali_steve
Member since Aug 06th 2009
163 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 02:01 AM

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107. "RE: questions (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>1. how did Eames (Tom Hardy) disguise himself as other people
>within dreams, it it ever explained or are we just supposed to
>run with the idea that he has this ability?
>
Im not sure. I was asking my wife the same question.

>2. how did Ellen Page and Leo get into to the limbo state? (i
>dont remember them dying in the 3rd level dream)

I did not think that was a Limbo state but rather another level of dreaming as they said they were going to go deeper.
>
>3. i understand that Ellen Page creates the structure of the
>dream/she is the architect, but how does that actually come
>into play in the dreams, since it's not her dreams that
>they're in? do they just input her blueprints into the machine
>that connects everyone together somehow?

Her design is supposed to give them enough time to accomplish what they need to accomplish. The only problem is the plan got jacked when Cillian Murphy's character had a defense system in his mind and Leo's own thoughts were getting infused.
>
>4. Marion Cotillard (Mal) and Leo kill themselves in the limbo
>stage by laying down on the train tracks in order to get back
>into reality, right? when they get run over by the train, they
>dont look any older than in reality even though they spent 50
>years in limbo and grew old together (Leo says "we grew old"
>together near the end, and we are shown they're wrinkly old
>arms and hands for a second or two). how could they have had
>wrinkly skin if they got out of limbo via death by train
>before reaching such old age? did they re-enter limbo numerous
>times? or did they kill themselves via train in a different
>dream level (ie. not limbo)?

I thought what that was showing was the perception vs the reality. He was feeling guilty that he made a promise that they would grow old together there. His perception was that he never lived up to that promise when in reality he already did which allowed him to be able to let her go at the end.

I don't know if any of this is right but your questions were the exact same ones my wife had and this is the discussion we just had.

Perfect ending
>
>thanks in advance

>>Expert on all things Cali

  

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little bredren
Member since Apr 18th 2005
3286 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 02:19 AM

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108. "RE: questions (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

>>1. how did Eames (Tom Hardy) disguise himself as other
>people
>>within dreams, it it ever explained or are we just supposed
>to
>>run with the idea that he has this ability?
>>
>Im not sure. I was asking my wife the same question.


pretty sloppy writing if this was never explained in the film (thought i just missed it or forgot it)

>>2. how did Ellen Page and Leo get into to the limbo state?
>(i
>>dont remember them dying in the 3rd level dream)
>
>I did not think that was a Limbo state but rather another
>level of dreaming as they said they were going to go deeper.

i know thats a possibility, but if it is, then how does leo get into the limbo state and save saito? does he kill himself in the 4th level dream?

>>3. i understand that Ellen Page creates the structure of the
>>dream/she is the architect, but how does that actually come
>>into play in the dreams, since it's not her dreams that
>>they're in? do they just input her blueprints into the
>machine
>>that connects everyone together somehow?
>
>Her design is supposed to give them enough time to accomplish
>what they need to accomplish. The only problem is the plan
>got jacked when Cillian Murphy's character had a defense
>system in his mind and Leo's own thoughts were getting
>infused.

that i understood, my question was, in the first place, how does he design (ie. that road, the rain, etc. etc.) get input into the original dream? is the "blueprint" just connected into the dream connector machine?

>>4. Marion Cotillard (Mal) and Leo kill themselves in the
>limbo
>>stage by laying down on the train tracks in order to get
>back
>>into reality, right? when they get run over by the train,
>they
>>dont look any older than in reality even though they spent
>50
>>years in limbo and grew old together (Leo says "we grew old"
>>together near the end, and we are shown they're wrinkly old
>>arms and hands for a second or two). how could they have had
>>wrinkly skin if they got out of limbo via death by train
>>before reaching such old age? did they re-enter limbo
>numerous
>>times? or did they kill themselves via train in a different
>>dream level (ie. not limbo)?
>
>I thought what that was showing was the perception vs the
>reality. He was feeling guilty that he made a promise that
>they would grow old together there. His perception was that
>he never lived up to that promise when in reality he already
>did which allowed him to be able to let her go at the end.

hmm, i dont quite understand...it is a fact that they killed themselves via train in limbo whilst still having non-wrinkly skin, thus returning to reality, right? you're saying them growing old together didnt actually happen (ie. was just a perception) or something else?

>I don't know if any of this is right but your questions were
>the exact same ones my wife had and this is the discussion we
>just had.
>
haha nice, glad i wasnt the only one

  

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notnac
Charter member
1607 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 02:43 AM

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109. "I think this answers #4"
In response to Reply # 106


          

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/faq#.2.1.24

  

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little bredren
Member since Apr 18th 2005
3286 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 02:46 AM

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110. "RE: I think this answers #4"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

ahhhhh i see, thanks a bunch

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49415 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 08:55 AM

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121. "RE: questions (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 106
Sat Jul-17-10 08:56 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

>SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>1. how did Eames (Tom Hardy) disguise himself as other people
>within dreams, it it ever explained or are we just supposed to
>run with the idea that he has this ability?


Ultimately its a dream so people have the ability to manipulate them (The way Ellen Page was able to manipulate the streets by folding them over or the way Eames created for himself a much bigger gun). Eames talent was his ability to recreate and mimic people (the way Ellen Pages talent was to manipulate structures).



>2. how did Ellen Page and Leo get into to the limbo state? (i
>dont remember them dying in the 3rd level dream)

Don't know. I assume they have the ability to willfully go there whereas other people are sent there involuntary when killed in the dreamscape under heavy medication.

>
>3. i understand that Ellen Page creates the structure of the
>dream/she is the architect, but how does that actually come
>into play in the dreams, since it's not her dreams that
>they're in? do they just input her blueprints into the machine
>that connects everyone together somehow?

I understood it to actually be her dream. I think the line was its her dream but the target populates the dream with people.

>
>4. Marion Cotillard (Mal) and Leo kill themselves in the limbo
>stage by laying down on the train tracks in order to get back
>into reality, right? when they get run over by the train, they
>dont look any older than in reality even though they spent 50
>years in limbo and grew old together (Leo says "we grew old"
>together near the end, and we are shown they're wrinkly old
>arms and hands for a second or two). how could they have had
>wrinkly skin if they got out of limbo via death by train
>before reaching such old age? did they re-enter limbo numerous
>times? or did they kill themselves via train in a different
>dream level (ie. not limbo)?


I was thinking this was a mistake. I think they should have been an old couple laying down on the tracks (they should have at least cut between images of an old and young couple laying down on the tracks). I think they did grow old together in limbo but in real life time it was only maybe a few weeks.




**********

  

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little bredren
Member since Apr 18th 2005
3286 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 03:15 PM

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128. "RE: questions (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 121
Sat Jul-17-10 03:17 PM by little bredren

  

          

>>SPOILERS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>1. how did Eames (Tom Hardy) disguise himself as other
>people
>>within dreams, it it ever explained or are we just supposed
>to
>>run with the idea that he has this ability?
>
>
>Ultimately its a dream so people have the ability to
>manipulate them (The way Ellen Page was able to manipulate
>the streets by folding them over or the way Eames created for
>himself a much bigger gun). Eames talent was his ability to
>recreate and mimic people (the way Ellen Pages talent was to
>manipulate structures).
>
>
>
>>2. how did Ellen Page and Leo get into to the limbo state?
>(i
>>dont remember them dying in the 3rd level dream)
>
>Don't know. I assume they have the ability to willfully go
>there whereas other people are sent there involuntary when
>killed in the dreamscape under heavy medication.
>
>>
>>3. i understand that Ellen Page creates the structure of the
>>dream/she is the architect, but how does that actually come
>>into play in the dreams, since it's not her dreams that
>>they're in? do they just input her blueprints into the
>machine
>>that connects everyone together somehow?
>
>I understood it to actually be her dream. I think the line
>was its her dream but the target populates the dream with
>people.
>
>>
>>4. Marion Cotillard (Mal) and Leo kill themselves in the
>limbo
>>stage by laying down on the train tracks in order to get
>back
>>into reality, right? when they get run over by the train,
>they
>>dont look any older than in reality even though they spent
>50
>>years in limbo and grew old together (Leo says "we grew old"
>>together near the end, and we are shown they're wrinkly old
>>arms and hands for a second or two). how could they have had
>>wrinkly skin if they got out of limbo via death by train
>>before reaching such old age? did they re-enter limbo
>numerous
>>times? or did they kill themselves via train in a different
>>dream level (ie. not limbo)?
>
>
>I was thinking this was a mistake. I think they should have
>been an old couple laying down on the tracks (they should have
>at least cut between images of an old and young couple laying
>down on the tracks). I think they did grow old together in
>limbo but in real life time it was only maybe a few weeks.
>
>
>
>
>**********

thanks a lot, ur answers are probably the best ones ive heard yet
except one thing, the first level of dreaming was NOT ellen page's dream, she just designed the architecture. it was actually the dude's who created the sedative, remember? cuz they ask him why couldnt u have gone to the bathroom earlier since it was raining in the first level dream. additionally, he was the one driving van/not going one dream level deeper, since u cant go down dream levels if its your dream that the first level is in

the old age in limbo thing definitely happened, they just showed them to us as younger people, either because of the fact thats its difficult to realize how much time has passed by when ur in limbo or because they're projections of themselves could have been young-looking even though they were old

  

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ShinobiShaw
Charter member
48550 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 02:18 AM

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147. "RE: questions (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>1. how did Eames (Tom Hardy) disguise himself as other people
>within dreams, it it ever explained or are we just supposed to
>run with the idea that he has this ability?

That was his speciality. They referred to him as a "Forger" He a couple of weeks in the presence of the guy he copied. Didn't you see him at the hospital and office scenes. You can change things in dreams, so he pretends to be other people.

>
>2. how did Ellen Page and Leo get into to the limbo state? (i
>dont remember them dying in the 3rd level dream)

She wasnt. There were 3 levels of subconcious. The first was the street. The 2nd was the office building and the 3rd was the snow setting. When Mal shot the dude they jumped into Leo Dicaprio's mind to get him out.


>3. i understand that Ellen Page creates the structure of the
>dream/she is the architect, but how does that actually come
>into play in the dreams, since it's not her dreams that
>they're in? do they just input her blueprints into the machine
>that connects everyone together somehow?

She actually is great at creating mazes. The machine brings everything together. She creates a place which essentially has loops in it to trick the mind into thinking everything is cool. This is the same as making a recording on a tape and setting it to loop. It tricks whoever is watching it into thinking its all good.


>4. Marion Cotillard (Mal) and Leo kill themselves in the limbo
>stage by laying down on the train tracks in order to get back
>into reality, right? when they get run over by the train, they
>dont look any older than in reality even though they spent 50
>years in limbo and grew old together (Leo says "we grew old"
>together near the end, and we are shown they're wrinkly old
>arms and hands for a second or two). how could they have had
>wrinkly skin if they got out of limbo via death by train
>before reaching such old age? did they re-enter limbo numerous
>times? or did they kill themselves via train in a different
>dream level (ie. not limbo)?

This was also explained. Time moves slower each time you delve into deeper parts of the brain. I forgot the formula but the first stage kinda runs at normal speed. The 2nd stage a day would be an hour. At the 3rd stage and also limbo a single minute can be a whole year. Essentially they were in this dream limbo for years, but in real time they were maybe out for 8-10 hour. I mean they were passed out in their home on the floor. Their kids or someone would of found them there and woke them up.


<------ Boho Model Madness Presents, Beauty Foster

http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://www.myspace.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.last.fm/user/ShinoShaw
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PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c) T510

  

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Dr Strangelove
Member since Jul 04th 2003
1609 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 09:06 AM

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154. "#2"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

Leo and Page absolutely went to limbo to rescue Cillian Murphy and Watanabe: level one was rainy Los Angeles where Leo's train was driving on the street and they kidnapped Cillian Murphy, level two was the office building where Leo convinced Cillian Murphy that he was his security officer, level three was the snow fortress, level four (limbo) was the land created by Leo and Cotillard.

They (Leo and Page) entered limbo the exact same way that they entered the levels that preceded and we saw Page exit through all the levels during the kick; it's inferred that everyone else does the same, though it's shown from her perspective only, if my memory serves. Leo stays behind in limbo to rescue Watanabe.

—mishapshappening.com—

  

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Kahlema
Member since Jan 31st 2003
16850 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 12:30 PM

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495. "did we ever find out how Cobb transitioned from Mal to Saito?"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

>They (Leo and Page) entered limbo the exact same way that they
>entered the levels that preceded and we saw Page exit through
>all the levels during the kick; it's inferred that everyone
>else does the same, though it's shown from her perspective
>only, if my memory serves. Leo stays behind in limbo to
>rescue Watanabe.

I swear I had my eyes tightly glued to the screen and somehow he let Mal go and then he washes up on shore to go to the aged Saito. I thought the scene where Cobb was letting Mal go was the 4th level and Saito was in limbo.

I guess I need to watch it again (which I was already planning to). This movie is DEEP. Sometimes its hard to seperate the layers.

-------
peace and love

that's when i tiptoed out ur inbox (c) ricky

http://instagram.com/kahlema
http://twitter.com/jazzlema

  

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KwesiAkoKennedy
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3770 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 12:58 PM

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496. "He misses the kick, then dies."
In response to Reply # 495


  

          

The movie doesn't show it from his perspective, it just show's him not waking up in the van with everyone else.

  

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Kahlema
Member since Jan 31st 2003
16850 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 05:41 PM

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501. "gotcha."
In response to Reply # 496


  

          

i kinda hoped there would've been a visual transition but not enough time i guess.

-------
peace and love

that's when i tiptoed out ur inbox (c) ricky

http://instagram.com/kahlema
http://twitter.com/jazzlema

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 03:23 AM

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111. "incredible. saw it twice today. loved every minute."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 05:13 AM

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116. "Incredible. Absolutely incredible. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I can't have put my thoughts into a coherent paragraph right now.....gotta sleep on it. Absolutely incredible.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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God Loves Ugly
Member since Nov 12th 2002
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Sat Jul-17-10 06:31 AM

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118. "I loved it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If IMAX didn't cost $14, I'd love to see it there!

Go Wings.

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
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Sat Jul-17-10 08:47 AM

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120. "Saw it on IMAX. It's beautiful in the larger format, but not essential."
In response to Reply # 118


  

          



"Justice is what love looks like in public."
-Cornel West

  

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God Loves Ugly
Member since Nov 12th 2002
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Sat Jul-17-10 09:01 AM

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123. "Ah, good"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

I went to a $5 matinee and my logic was that seeing it in IMAX couldn't be worth $9 more (even if it was pretty great). I'm glad I decided to hold off.

Go Wings.

  

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okaycomputer
Member since Dec 02nd 2002
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Sat Jul-17-10 10:56 AM

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127. "RE: Saw it on IMAX. It's beautiful in the larger format, but not essenti..."
In response to Reply # 120


          

Actually I'd even argue that it makes some of the early actions scenes tough to follow.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sat Jul-17-10 04:05 PM

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129. "Dope. The End."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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SankofaII
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130. "saw it today"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-17-10 05:29 PM by SankofaII

  

          

damn good movie visually...

Tom Hardy is SERIOUSLY UNDERRATED and I *HOPE* he gets his shine with this AND the lead role in the MAD MAX 4 movie coming out I think in 2011/2012...

I'm still missing how some thought this was a mindfuck--I just paid attention and was able to grasp what was going on...

Ellen Page=exposition character and that SUCKED...I would have preferred if his explaining to her what he does and how she'll be involved in it would have been done more organically, and not him basically answering her questions and doing a monologue, etc.

Joseph Gordon-Levitt just KEEPS proving why he's the the shit and needs more work...

Was I the only one who caught the Edith Piaf/Marion Cotillard in joke with the song?

to cosign with a poster in here, they REALLY should have dealt more with how Mal had the ability to pop in and out of dreams scapes/realities...yea *SPOILER ALERT* we get that Cobb was keeping her alive via memories but I felt like there was MORE there that wasn't fully explained. Plus, Marion got NOTHING to do other than bitch and whine about NOT having Cobb with her, etc.

I'm reserving my judgment on whether this is one of the best films of the year...TRON 2 is STILL coming out in December so i'm going to wait until then to see if this is best of the year overall...right now, HELLS YES. nothing has been on point so far this summer...

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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BigReg
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Sat Jul-17-10 06:04 PM

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132. "I thought it made sense *spoilers*"
In response to Reply # 130
Sat Jul-17-10 06:04 PM by BigReg

  

          














Leo was so emotionally damaged by his guilt, that he kept on projecting his own issues into the dream world, it's why he couldn't Architect.

Mal being such a bitch would make sense because how Leo would imagine her to be since she represents his guilt for her death. You can argue that we ALL have issues so why didn't the other team members have similar problems, but I figure it's a mixture of 1)How traumatic his guilt was(and the fact the dreamworld had alot to do with it) 2)He did the no-no of building her from memories 3)He was a seasoned pro in the dream world considering he's lived decades in them.


>damn good movie visually...
>
>Tom Hardy is SERIOUSLY UNDERRATED and I *HOPE* he gets his
>shine with this AND the lead role in the MAD MAX 4 movie
>coming out I think in 2011/2012...
>
>I'm still missing how some thought this was a mindfuck--I just
>paid attention and was able to grasp what was going on...
>
>Ellen Page=exposition character and that SUCKED...I would have
>preferred if his explaining to her what he does and how she'll
>be involved in it would have been done more organically, and
>not him basically answering her questions and doing a
>monologue, etc.
>
>Joseph Gordon-Levitt just KEEPS proving why he's the the shit
>and needs more work...
>
>Was I the only one who caught the Edith Piaf/Marion Cotillard
>in joke with the song?
>
>to cosign with a poster in here, they REALLY should have dealt
>more with how Mal had the ability to pop in and out of dreams
>scapes/realities...yea *SPOILER ALERT* we get that Cobb was
>keeping her alive via memories but I felt like there was MORE
>there that wasn't fully explained. Plus, Marion got NOTHING to
>do other than bitch and whine about NOT having Cobb with her,
>etc.
>
>I'm reserving my judgment on whether this is one of the best
>films of the year...TRON 2 is STILL coming out in December so
>i'm going to wait until then to see if this is best of the
>year overall...right now, HELLS YES. nothing has been on point
>so far this summer...
>
>

  

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SankofaII
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201. "hey...yea you are right"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

24 hours later i'm starting to appreciate this movie...

planning to see it on IMAX this weekend...

Joseph Gordon Leavitt is a beast

and Tom Hardy is right behind him--and CAN GET IT HOARD TEN WAYS TO SUNDAY AND BACK AGAIN....lol!

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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selppataei
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Mon Jul-19-10 11:12 AM

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253. "caught that la vie en rose. made me smirk."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

____________________________________________________________
http://proc.bandcamp.com
http://twitter.com/grandproc

  

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zero
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Sat Jul-17-10 05:53 PM

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131. "it was pretty good"
In response to Reply # 0


          

really entertaining for the 140 minutes, so no complaints from me on that front.

ultimately though, it didn't really stick with me after the end credits and i think (like i felt about "the dark knight") it was needlessly complicated.

that said, it's easily one of the best hollywood movies in a while, and nolan really has an amazing gift nailing an amazing image. the zero gravity shit was so fucking dope, i wish we had gotten more of it. also thought the cast mostly nailed it, despite them not having very full characters to inhabit (leo included).

  

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inpulse
Member since May 23rd 2007
5891 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 06:27 PM

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133. "Question involving spoilers."
In response to Reply # 0


          

If this has already been addressed, my fault....



What I got out of the ending was that Leo was trying to figure out if he had been the mark all along after he woke up on the plane, and that everything from beginning to end was done to get him to go home. Hence the last shot leaving us wondering if the entire movie was a dream.

Any of that on track or am I reaching?

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Sat Jul-17-10 06:32 PM

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134. "It was not as deep as some people made it out to be"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


and it dragged on a little, but it served the purpose of entertaining me for the afternoon. I doubt I would go out of my way to see it again.

On a unrelated note...did anyone have a difficult time understanding Ken Watanabe (Saito)at times?

-------------------------------------------------------
"I suck when it comes to Internet forums"

  

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God Loves Ugly
Member since Nov 12th 2002
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Sat Jul-17-10 08:57 PM

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135. "YES!"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

>On a unrelated note...did anyone have a difficult time
>understanding Ken Watanabe (Saito)at times?

I generally don't have this kind of problem, but it was like he was quieter with marbles in his mouth.

I wasn't sure if I was missing anything important and it was frustrating.

Go Wings.

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Sat Jul-17-10 09:21 PM

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138. "Thank you"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          


The wife and I thought it was us.

-------------------------------------------------------
"I suck when it comes to Internet forums"

  

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rdhull
Charter member
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Sat Jul-17-10 09:28 PM

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139. "RE: YES!"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

>>On a unrelated note...did anyone have a difficult time
>>understanding Ken Watanabe (Saito)at times?
>
>I generally don't have this kind of problem, but it was like
>he was quieter with marbles in his mouth.
>
>I wasn't sure if I was missing anything important and it was
>frustrating.


Nolan got his own trademark now..each of his flicks will have a character with a horrible speech pattern/voice/sound.

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 09:08 PM

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136. "Definitely not as good as the Matrix...not even close"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Couldn't get into the action scenes, for the most part they were really generic. Couldn't get into Leo's family drama, the characters weren't developed. They spent the whole running time explaining how shit works in their dreamscape. No really, they did. All through the movie, even toward the end, they were explaining little factoids about this world.

I don't want to call it a bad movie, it's not bad, but I'm not moved at all. The Matrix, now that shit MOVED me.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sat Jul-17-10 09:41 PM

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140. "Here's my interpretation of the ending **spoilers***:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I thought about this a lot last night and I actually woke up this morning and couldn't go back to sleep because I had so many thoughts racing in my mind....regardless, after a lot of thinking, here's how I see it:

When Leo and Ariadne go into the 4th level to rescue fischer jr....that is Leo's dream representation of the limbo, he and Mal were in, therefore they aren't in limbo yet. Once Eems sets in the explosives kick on the snow fortress, Leo is now dead and in limbo(and they never take him out of the car when it's underwater either). After the underwater scene, the next scene we see with Leo is him outside Saito's place, both of them being in limbo(and Leo obviously knowing that place from his visit with Saito at the start of the movie). Since all the kicks are already gone and they are heavily sedated, there's no way for them to get out of limbo right? They are gone....so the ending with Leo 'waking up' is simply a different mental construction of his in limbo. IMO what seals it is the scene at the end with his kids, those are the exact same images he has in his mind from 5 years previous, no growth or change....thus those kids are his mental construction of what they look like, not the reality.....showing that he's in limbo.

Thoughts? Man, what an amazing movie.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sun Jul-18-10 02:44 AM

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148. "makes sense."
In response to Reply # 140


          

_________________________

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 11:50 AM

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159. "The one question I'd ask:"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

Why then does the totem slow?

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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Sun Jul-18-10 07:04 PM

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171. "Check below for my thoughts on the totem."
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

It is unreliable, because it isn't his.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 07:34 PM

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172. "Although... (And a new question)"
In response to Reply # 171


          

The answer you gave doesn't really work because the reason you couldn't let others touch it was because they would know exactly how it is weighted/lands. But the only person to touch Mal's totem is Mal and she's dead so who else would know how it was supposed to land?

Also, if throughout the film the totem falls when it is in the "real" world, why would it stop doing it then?

New question: If Leo knew that he planted the idea, why didn't he tell her that? Did he and I'm forgetting it?

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 07:38 PM

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174. "And one more question"
In response to Reply # 172


          

Did Fischer really not know what his rival looked like? When he was rolling with Watanabe at the end, wouldn't he have been like, "Hold up. What's my archrival doing here? Why is he helping me break in?"

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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etfp
Member since Oct 24th 2009
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Sun Jul-25-10 03:27 PM

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479. "remember that's just his son though."
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

i wouldn't expect a son (who feels that he doesn't deserve to run the empire) to know who his father's business arch rivals are.

________
"2ndly u think FAMILY and niggas i done grew up wit for 20+ years
gon let some random nigga
show up and whup my ass on my block
and hop in his corolla and pull off?" spm

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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Mon Jul-19-10 02:43 AM

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208. "I feel like we're kinda on the same page."
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

>But the only person to touch
>Mal's totem is Mal and she's dead so who else would know how
>it was supposed to land?

I explain it a little better below in my follow up, but I'm saying, that is why a persons totem works specific to that person. Because only they know how it would react in any given situation. Wouldn't Cobb only know how the top works from watching Mal use it? It wouldn't be his basis of recognition. It'd be hers. WHich would make for a shitty totem.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 02:48 AM

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210. "It's not any given situation."
In response to Reply # 208
Mon Jul-19-10 02:50 AM by SoulHonky

          

JGL's loaded die is special. He knows how it is loaded, what number it'll fall on, how it will roll, etc. He doesn't let anyone else touch it or else they'll know how it feels, where the weight is, etc.

In Leo's case, he picked up and took over Mal's totem. He knows everything about it but nobody else does (since the only person who knew it before is dead), which is why it works as a totem for him, even though it wasn't his originally.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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xangeluvr
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354. "its wouldn't have mattered"
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

>New question: If Leo knew that he planted the idea, why didn't
>he tell her that? Did he and I'm forgetting it?

once the idea was implanted then it grows and consumes you. they mention this a few times in the movie. he could have told her a million times and she would still believe that she was dreaming and needed to kill herself.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Sat Jul-24-10 02:43 AM

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465. "The totem was tainted"
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

Saito touches it at the start of the movie, along with the Japanese guard who gives it to him.

>The answer you gave doesn't really work because the reason
>you couldn't let others touch it was because they would know
>exactly how it is weighted/lands. But the only person to touch
>Mal's totem is Mal and she's dead so who else would know how
>it was supposed to land?
>
>Also, if throughout the film the totem falls when it is in the
>"real" world, why would it stop doing it then?
>
>New question: If Leo knew that he planted the idea, why didn't
>he tell her that? Did he and I'm forgetting it?

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Mon Jul-19-10 12:36 AM

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196. "it isn't an indicator of dream/reality. it's an indicator if you ACCEPT ..."
In response to Reply # 159
Mon Jul-19-10 12:39 AM by FortifiedLive

  

          

that world as reality. the top is stopping at the end because Dat 'Caprio finally accepting it as is. aka he's still dreaming. don't forget that HIS MIND REALLY CONTROLS IT. in other words, he's performed INCEPTION on himself.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Mon Jul-19-10 02:23 AM

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204. "i typed this all wrong. it IS an indicator of dream/reality..."
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

but it depends on the mind. after all, it defies reality in the dream world since its owner knows how it works. but in Leo's case when it decelerates in the end, his mind is convinced that the dream is reality.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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rdhull
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Sun Jul-18-10 02:46 PM

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165. "RE: Here's my interpretation of the ending **spoilers***:"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

>I thought about this a lot last night and I actually woke up
>this morning and couldn't go back to sleep because I had so
>many thoughts racing in my mind....regardless, after a lot of
>thinking, here's how I see it:
>
>When Leo and Ariadne go into the 4th level to rescue fischer
>jr....that is Leo's dream representation of the limbo, he and
>Mal were in, therefore they aren't in limbo yet. Once Eems
>sets in the explosives kick on the snow fortress, Leo is now
>dead and in limbo(and they never take him out of the car when
>it's underwater either). After the underwater scene, the next
>scene we see with Leo is him outside Saito's place, both of
>them being in limbo(and Leo obviously knowing that place from
>his visit with Saito at the start of the movie). Since all
>the kicks are already gone and they are heavily sedated,
>there's no way for them to get out of limbo right? They are
>gone....so the ending with Leo 'waking up' is simply a
>different mental construction of his in limbo. IMO what seals
>it is the scene at the end with his kids, those are the exact
>same images he has in his mind from 5 years previous, no
>growth or change....thus those kids are his mental
>construction of what they look like, not the
>reality.....showing that he's in limbo.
>
>Thoughts?


As Longo aid why does the totem slow (even though it cuts off) and he did see his childrens faces finally. I think it hangs on the totem of course but since it slowed and you saw the childrens faces instead of just the backs of their heads near the end its possible that him "waking" up wasn't just his constructin while still dreaming.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 04:34 PM

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167. "In the initial cut..."
In response to Reply # 165


          

A guy I was sitting next two was saying that he saw a preview screening and the film ended before the totem started wobbling.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 07:40 PM

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177. "O really? My initial take was that it was there for dramatic effect "
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

And the initial cut not even having the wobble seems to implicate that as well. It's the only part of my interpretation I really cannot explain.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 02:38 AM

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206. "Yeah. I think it was to add ambiguity."
In response to Reply # 177


          

People can read into it if they like but really, it's just kind of a red herring. The top had never wobbled like that before in the film and the kids were wearing the exact same clothes as they'd been wearing in Cobbs's memories. But adding it gives something for people to talk about (whereas cutting while it's spinning would seem like a definitive answer on where it ended.)

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Mon Jul-19-10 12:21 PM

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255. "We're >>>>>>>>>>here<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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jigga
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:06 PM

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262. "For what it's worth I saw a screening last Monday & didn't notice"
In response to Reply # 255


  

          

the wobble.

Saw another screening the next night & almost lost my mind when it started to wobble. Then it cut to black in the nick of time.

  

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las raises
Member since Aug 31st 2002
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Sat Jul-24-10 11:50 AM

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468. "i saw the wobble too, i can't wait for the DVD with all the extras"
In response to Reply # 262


  

          

-----------------------------------------------------------------

  

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cheesecake
Member since Mar 11th 2003
596 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 05:26 PM

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168. "RE: Here's my interpretation of the ending **spoilers***:"
In response to Reply # 140
Sun Jul-18-10 05:33 PM by cheesecake

          

>I thought about this a lot last night and I actually woke up
>this morning and couldn't go back to sleep because I had so
>many thoughts racing in my mind....regardless, after a lot of
>thinking, here's how I see it:
>
>When Leo and Ariadne go into the 4th level to rescue fischer
>jr....that is Leo's dream representation of the limbo, he and
>Mal were in, therefore they aren't in limbo yet. Once Eems
>sets in the explosives kick on the snow fortress, Leo is now
>dead and in limbo(and they never take him out of the car when
>it's underwater either). After the underwater scene, the next
>scene we see with Leo is him outside Saito's place, both of
>them being in limbo(and Leo obviously knowing that place from
>his visit with Saito at the start of the movie). Since all
>the kicks are already gone and they are heavily sedated,
>there's no way for them to get out of limbo right? They are
>gone....so the ending with Leo 'waking up' is simply a
>different mental construction of his in limbo. IMO what seals
>it is the scene at the end with his kids, those are the exact
>same images he has in his mind from 5 years previous, no
>growth or change....thus those kids are his mental
>construction of what they look like, not the
>reality.....showing that he's in limbo.
>
>Thoughts? Man, what an amazing movie.

Why did Fischer go into the 4rth layer of dreaming instead of going to limbo then? I know they resuscitate Fischer in the 3rd level, so is that why he could have went from limbo back to the 4rth layer?? And if so, why couldn't they just have done the same to Saito??? So confusing!!

  

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haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:01 PM

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181. "what if the whole story was a dream he had during a flight?"
In response to Reply # 140


          

_________________________

  

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samgar
Member since Jan 27th 2005
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:54 AM

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200. "this made me laugh"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

not at you. with you.


_______________

I WAS IN THE POOL!


http://www.last.fm/user/realsegway

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:02 PM

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351. "the ending is he made it home to his kids...the fuck else is there? "
In response to Reply # 140


  

          


dunno why folks gotta cyse it like something else happened with that top. shit ain't WOBBLE the umpteen other times he spun that muhfucka.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:39 PM

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356. "That would mean he was still trapped in a dream"
In response to Reply # 351


          

>dunno why folks gotta cyse it like something else happened
>with that top. shit ain't WOBBLE the umpteen other times he
>spun that muhfucka.

So you think that was the first time he was ever in reality? Because if he was in reality before then the top should have fallen like it did in those scenes. If it doesn't, it means he's still in a dream.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 06:22 AM

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367. "he didn't spend the entire movie dreaming. it's not even that deep"
In response to Reply # 356
Wed Jul-21-10 06:23 AM by Basaglia

  

          

and the plot surrounding this grand concept is still flimsy as shit, which no one wants to admit. plant an idea into a CEO's head? get a wife killer back into the US with a mystery call?

look, at least neo was tryna save the human race from fuckin slavery in his alternate reality. and in between time, we got to see some cool shit. inception? shit plays four card shuffle with some dream "levels" and muhfuckas done lost they minds.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Rockscissorspaper
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456. "kids that don't age?"
In response to Reply # 351


  

          

-----------------------------

HEY KIDS, (BUY MY) COMICS!! https://www.mythworldemedia.com/store

  

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chillinCHiEF
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Sun Jul-18-10 12:38 AM

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143. "I fell asleep in the theater"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I figure I missed maybe 20 minutes of it all together nodding in and out at different points. I don't *think* I missed anything terribly important though, and the ending made sense. I think the combination of that shit being about dreams and the fact that I didn't have much sleep all day fucked me up.

I caught the last 30-40 minutes straight through and liked it a lot. Probably the best flick I've seen so far this year.

  

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Rjcc
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151. "it's long as hell, not a movie to see tired."
In response to Reply # 143


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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bloocollar
Member since Aug 14th 2008
18163 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 01:03 AM

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145. "Just saw this movie--"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-18-10 01:04 AM by bloocollar

          

dope as hell and a complete mindfuck

reading this off the imdb site makes me want to see it again

**spoilers below**















from imdb:
The idea of 'Inception' is to be a story crafted in the architecture of the mind - Cobb's mind. What people perceive to be real isn't necessarily so, because the mind can make things appear to be as real as ever. An important thing to remember is the start of the film. Dom Cobb wakes up in a place that we later find out to be limbo more importantly, Saito's limbo.

What happens next is something that is meaningless the first time a viewer watches the film. Saito is seen handling Cobb's totem (which was a top that he took from Mal while in limbo). At first, this is meaningless. Upon a second viewing, the viewer should realize that everything that happens after this scene (the jump cut to Cobb's attempt at extracting information from Saito, and so on) is something much deeper.

Saito promises to give Cobb the one thing that he wants, and that's to find the way back home. How does he convince Cobb to do this? He tells him to "take a leap of faith." This is another line that goes unnoticed at first. On a second viewing, the viewer should remember that line as something that Mal told Cobb when she jumped off of the building. Is the picture becoming clearer yet?

Cobb seems to appear wherever he needs to go, whether it is Paris, or Mombasa, just like it were a dream. While in Mombasa, Cobb gets chased by anonymous agents (which he perceives to be Cobol agents) through a fantastic action sequence where Cobb escapes the dream-like narrow tunnel and is rescued by none other than Saito. A bit later, Cobb and Saito visit Yusef who brings them into a basement with various figures connected to the dream machine. The idea was for Cobb to experiment with the deep sedative. He does, and when he "wakes up" he tries to use his totem only to be interrupted by Saito. Cobb never does find out if he is in the real world or not. In fact, he hasnt been yet. Hes been in limbo ever since he got there with Mal. Ever since then, he's been going deeper and deeper to the point where he created Saito as a projection to help him "get back home" - Did you really think Saito can just pick up the phone and make murder charges disappear? No. But, Cobb believes it and thus Saito is used to thrust Cobb further and further into a state of limbo where at the end of the journey, Cobb truly believes he is with his children after confronting and getting over his projection of Mal.

While in the limbo, Cobb, using Mal's totem, put the idea in her head that she was in the dream world. She was, she just hadnt realized it yet. What the viewer forgets is that all knowledge of limbo comes from Cobb's character. To think that Cobb is 100% accurate about it is absolutely wrong. He wouldn't know dream from reality not in the limbo that he describes to people and definitely not if inception were performed on him to believe that limbo truly was the real world.

Mal and Cobb never really left limbo at least, not that layer of it. When Mal jumped off the building, she gave herself the very same "kick" that Ariadne improvised later on in the movie. Mal was right about still being in the dream world. Cobb was still engulfed in limbo and didn't realize it. When Cobb and Mal had killed themselves with the train, they simply moved one layer deeper just like Saito did when he was killed, Fischer did when he was killed, and so on (this happens again at the end of the film when Saito picks up the gun in front of Cobb).

Cobb, deep in limbo, unknowingly uses the projections of his team to keep going deeper and deeper until the idea of inception is performed on his mind, and he truly believes he was able to find a way back home. Saito's promise to Cobb was kept - in the form of Saito (a projection from Cobb) making sure that Cobb ended up in limbo, so that he could live his "life" with his kids (who are in the same position as they were all throughout the film).

The team were projections in Cobb's mind the entire time. It's how he was able to go to Miles in Paris and find an architect named Ariadne (a name which comes from a Greek mythology story about a labyrinth) who improvised the "kick" at the end of the movie the same way that Cobb had seen (but not accepted as a dream) Mal do previously when she jumped off the building. It's how Eames happened to know of Yusef, and so on and so forth. Everything Cobb needed to make this inception work happened to work out for him. It's even how Cobb's lawyer knew so quickly that Mal had gone to 3 different shrinks to be declared "sane" and how he happened to have two tickets for Cobb to be able to get out of the country before the police would have arrested him.

The movie ends with Cobb appearing from place to place, going from limbo with Saito, to the plane where Saito magically makes one phone call to free Cobb from his problems, to walking through the airport, to meeting Miles who is with Cobb's children. Cobb spins his totem and it spins just like it was a dream. He fixes his eyes on his children and the totem begins to lose speed this is because inception has worked Cobb truly believes he is in the real world. His totem will not spin like it did in the dream, not as long as he has his kids. The title of the film is now shown to us, making complete sense because the title was really Cobb's journey through his own mind: INCEPTION

  

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Rjcc
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152. "this is dumb."
In response to Reply # 145


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:22 AM

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157. "One question."
In response to Reply # 145
Sun Jul-18-10 10:31 AM by SoulHonky

          

If the whole thing was a dream, shouldn't the totem have kept spinning any time he had spun it?

The more I think about it, the more I think it really was all a dream. The alleyway, Ellen Page's totum was a pawn, the price on his head really being the trick to get him to run from his subconscious, all of the clues were there and during the film I thought they may be red herrings but the final scene's shot of the kids being the same as the memory is too much.

But that leads to another question: who cares? He's clearly fucked up so his kids are probably better without him.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 07:00 PM

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170. "No."
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

>If the whole thing was a dream, shouldn't the totem have kept
>spinning any time he had spun it?

Because that wasn't his totem. It was Mal's. They made it clear that you couldn't touch someone else's totem. So every time he used his totem, it was already corrupted and not accurately showing him that he wasn't dreaming.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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BigReg
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Sun Jul-18-10 07:39 PM

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175. "Nah, you guys are off"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

All the totem does is that it's something only you know how it feels/works in real life/dream life. It can't be corrupted. The reason why Ellen Page's character wisely didn't let Leo touch her chess piece is that if he did, him and his subconscious would be able to replicate it perfectly.

If Leo did touch it, when shit started hitting the fan him or his subconscious would be able to fuck with because he(or his subconcious) would be able to replicate the chess piece perfectly confusing her.

Mal's chess piece wasn't corrupted because the only living person who knew how it worked/felt was Leo.


>>If the whole thing was a dream, shouldn't the totem have
>kept
>>spinning any time he had spun it?
>
>Because that wasn't his totem. It was Mal's. They made it
>clear that you couldn't touch someone else's totem. So every
>time he used his totem, it was already corrupted and not
>accurately showing him that he wasn't dreaming.

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 02:13 AM

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203. "yep. and that's why the top is decelerating at the end."
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

his mind is convinced it's reality.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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207. "I don't think I am. Just think I explained it wrong."
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

The reason I feel her totem would not work for Leo is because it was something that she would know how it is supposed to work at all times. Much like JGL's die and Juno's chess piece... anyone could pick those up. But not anyone would know the weight of it and what it would do when thrown or toppled or spun. Which is why I feel like it's a tell that the whole thing is in Cobb's dream. Not that "Oh shit, someone touched it... now it doesn't work." But that it was something of theirs that no one else would be able to know what it should feel like at all times.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 02:44 AM

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209. "But once Leo touches it, he knows how it falls."
In response to Reply # 207


          

The key is to not let anyone ELSE touch or else then they will now how it falls and will be able to duplicate it in a dream.

This isn't the case with the top because the only other person to touch it is Mal and she's dead.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16195 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 02:48 AM

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149. "very good movie."
In response to Reply # 0


          

_________________________

  

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Dr Strangelove
Member since Jul 04th 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 09:21 AM

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155. "For all of his virtues as an actor,"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't think Leo has the capacity to play a family man and be 100% convincing. I wasn't so hot on his turn in Revolutionary Road for this reason, and I feel the same about that aspect of his role in this film as well.

I did love this movie, though. So much fun. If you have a half hour to kill, listen to Nolan's interview with Elvis Mitchell. No spoilers:

http://www.kcrw.com/media-player/mediaPlayer2.html?type=audio&id=tt100714christopher_nolan

—mishapshappening.com—

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 10:10 AM

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156. "I never cared. (Spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-18-10 10:27 AM by SoulHonky

          

It was fine but I never got into it and never really cared about the stakes. By the time the last shot happened, I really didn't care whether or not it was real or not. Throughout the film there were little moments that I felt made it seem like a dream (the most glaring being the chase scene and insanely thin alleyway) but I tried to ignore those because then it just lessened the stakes of the film even more.

It was fine. A bit boring and, in terms of entertainment, isn't as good similar films like The Matrix or Dark City and, in terms of a mindfuck, isn't as twisty as Shutter Island.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:34 AM

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249. "This may be the best review in here. n/m"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          


-------------------------------------------------------
"I suck when it comes to Internet forums"

  

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Viola
Member since Mar 25th 2010
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Mon Jul-19-10 09:35 PM

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287. "thats all i needed to know"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

mn

Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 12:06 PM

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160. "Entertaining and visually impressive... but emotionally?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It never fully sucked me in. It was the type of movie where the plot and visuals and ideas are so interesting that it kept me very stimulated and entertained, and I stayed on the edge of my seat, but because there wasn't an effective emotional root, I was never as invested emotionally as I would have liked to be. I see how the Mal storyline is supposed to achieve that, and it was cleverly done... but it didn't hit me on the same gut level that, say, the Michelle Williams storyline did in Shutter Island.

Nolan really goes for the big epic world, and it's full of huge ideas, and at the end of the day, it's still one of the best of the year and one of the best sci-fi films of the last several years. I just wonder whether as the number of my viewings increases, my mind will stop focusing on the thought and the ingenuity of the concept and will finally find the emotional root of the film to be more effective than I did the first time.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sun Jul-18-10 01:11 PM

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161. "I agree, the novelty of the idea carried the movie "
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

You never see Leo and Mal's normal relationship....everything was always how their relationship related to dreaming.

The incentive to see his kids does add some emotional resonance but it's not nearly enough to create a truly compelling emotional attachment, particularly when so much time is spent on Leo and Mal.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Phenomenality
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Sun Jul-18-10 01:19 PM

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162. "Thats the one thing......"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

>You never see Leo and Mal's normal relationship....everything
>was always how their relationship related to dreaming.
>
>The incentive to see his kids does add some emotional
>resonance but it's not nearly enough to create a truly
>compelling emotional attachment, particularly when so much
>time is spent on Leo and Mal.

i didn't get emotionally invested in his quest to "get home" because there wasn't enough "family" in storyline before things got crazy.

...

Vee is I and I am She

...

. Serenity . Courage . Wisdom .

  

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Marauder21
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Sun Jul-18-10 02:34 PM

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164. "Yeah I never got that he was ever THAT invested in the kids"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

Would have been nice to see some signs that he had been a devoted father at one point.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:41 PM

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185. "agreed there wasn't enough emotional investment but"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

i think they tried to explain this by
his obsession with going back into his dreams
also the visit in india with those people spending a majority of their time in dreams
i believ a character said the dream were more real for them than reality was

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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poetx
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:11 PM

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183. "that's what's brilliant about the script. ALL of it was shadow/projectio..."
In response to Reply # 160


  

          


so you don't need to see a fully 3 dimensional depiction of any of the characters because they are leo's mental approximations of them.

think about it.

Saito was just *too* convenient. big client? check. ok. potential arch nemesis (if you fuck up the job)? check. ok.

has bigger fish to fry than kobo engineering? check.

able to get cobb out of trouble in congo? check. now, this could be the magic of movie coincidences, but dude shows up in the nick of time, with almost omniscient ability to save him.

now, saito also magically being able to call all U.S. law enforcement off of cobb's ass with one phone call from a plane 20 min prior to landing???

the kids might not even have been real. dude had dreams within dreams w/ mal. kids might have come from that, and he only had the perception of them, a mental sketch, that he latched onto as a source of stability when mal became unstable.

when he was on the phone w/ the kids, did you hear the switch in the age of the kids voices?

and the gramma was not on the phone, nor visible, when dude who was supposedly on the run for offing her daughter came to see the kids? word?

constructs within constructs within constructs.

the infinity mirrors (brilliant scene, btw) that ariadne set up during her 'training'.

perfect metaphor for the infinitely nested WHAT IF loops.

at the very least that's a plausible explanation for everything that happened.

also, it sets up the paradox of the thing that was cobb's undoing being the potential source of his salvation... Inception. oh. and that thing was a product of what? *his* mind.

dude could be bodying himself and pushing himself further and further down infinite levels of mental space.

horton hears a who after shooting up. shit is dope.




peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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mrshow
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:48 PM

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187. "I like your theory"
In response to Reply # 183


          

It's really well-thought out but my problem with it is that it also functions as a way of excusing some pretty piss-poor writing. I think Nolan excellent at ideas/plot but has some real problems with character.

  

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poetx
Charter member
58856 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 10:10 AM

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239. "agreed. (not agreeing that i like my theory, but your other comments)"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

>It's really well-thought out but my problem with it is that
>it also functions as a way of excusing some pretty piss-poor
>writing. I think Nolan excellent at ideas/plot but has some
>real problems with character.

certainly. which could make this either a cheap move, or a ballsy one.

this is like ?uest always tawmbout how he first played for 'perfection', with perfection meaning perfect fidelity to whatever he was mimicking, and THEN (post-dilla INCEPTION) started intentionally 'fucking up', or being slightly off-beat, off-time. and it fucks w/ him because he feels compelled to do it, because its more authentic (like DJs that used to mix joints from parliament, b/c they didn't use a metronome).

so with nolan, imagine hatching the idea to create something where there are certain flaws, or certain things left in sketchmode, because they actually enhance the story or advance the premise.

and risk having folks think he half-assed on character development.

so you could give him a B- if it is what it is at face value. or an A++++++ if he did it on purpose to keep it real.

clearly Mal was that psychotic shadow of what she used to be (if in fact, there ever was a Mal), because he was holding on to her memory, and you know how even a healthy mind can distort things in memory.

if all of this was taking place in leo's mind, there was never a point at which we could see a truly 'real' depiction of ANY one, because dreams always start in the middle. and leo was beyond mentally fucked by this point.

ariadne, one of his 'new' projections, who had to work closely with him, was curious about his limitations in a way that his other projections were not.

he was becoming self-conscious about how he was effing up by this point.





peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:48 PM

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188. "The main relationship needed to be fleshed out."
In response to Reply # 183


          

>so you don't need to see a fully 3 dimensional depiction of
>any of the characters because they are leo's mental
>approximations of them.

At the very least, you need a better depiction of Leo and Mal. I mean, we never see Mal as a sane person. She's either murking people or trying to off herself. There's a few montage shots of her smiling but that's it.

>the kids might not even have been real. dude had dreams within
>dreams w/ mal. kids might have come from that, and he only had
>the perception of them, a mental sketch, that he latched onto
>as a source of stability when mal became unstable.

Wait, so what was the point of the movie? To watch a guy wander around a paradoxical staircase? What did any of it mean? What was the point?

>dude could be bodying himself and pushing himself further and
>further down infinite levels of mental space.

And who is hooking him up? Did he hook himself up and dope himself with a ton of sedative? Mal died so he decided to just go back into the dream state forever... but not to be with Mal? Did I just watch a guy stuck in limbo?

And if the entire thing was a dream then he never accomplished Inception. Mal was right. She got out.

I think Nolan took a fairly standard element - "It was all a dream" - and told it in a confounding way that leaves so many unanswered question that you can spend all day wondering "What If?" when all you're looking at is an illusion. But if we never had ANY signs of reality then we're left with nothing but a random guy's dream.

I keep trying to figure out a reason why I should have cared about anyone and the more I hear, the more I think I was right to not be invested with anyone.

----
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selppataei
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Mon Jul-19-10 11:58 AM

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254. "this was my interpretation, more or less (spoilers)."
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

i'm still thinking it through. i'm having a hard time distinguishing between, say, the 4th level and limbo. like, they could be one and the same in the sense that because time slows down to such a large degree as the levels progress that saito, fischer and cobb never actually die. they're just in a state of lost consciousness, which may or may not lend itself to dreaming.

my interpretation is that everything we see in the movie is cobb's subconscious projection, and everything that happens is cobb working his s*** out. except for he didn't master his high and got lost in a level and began to see it as his reality, guilt-ridden as it was. except the subconsious ultimately never loses count, so it created the circumstances necessary to address his guilt and get into a good enough frame of mind to see that he has some more waking up to do. ergo, the ending (if we're to believe that the top kept spinning). i mean, he's gotta go back inside eventually, right? so he sees it and proceeds to take a knife to his chest.

and mal had it right all along.

i concede that i have to believe this genius-a** dude basically lost count. i mean, that's stupid. so i'm telling myself he was in the 22nd dream within a dream.

____________________________________________________________
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Marauder21
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163. "Very enjoyable"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Still processing the ending theories, but I think LA2Philly has it right.

------

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DJ007
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 06:58 PM

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169. "amazing film all around"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I watched a matinee today and immediately went home and bought tickets to see it again..lol.
Chris Nolan you are breath of fresh air my friend as far as directors go, in sea of summer movies that are remakes or sequels this is great breath of fresh air.
amazing job by the cast, story was original,music,wardrobe,and everything else was so on point.

Christopher Nolan you are gentleman and a scholar!!!
Watanabe was hard to understand at times,but he didn't kill film at all in my opinion. And to those who feel this is similar to The Matrix, I wish the matrix had more of these elements than just a battle between two old people...lol
__________________________________________________________
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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
10119 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 07:38 PM

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173. "well, that was some bullshit"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i didn't care about any of the characters or cobbs's story. i actually dozed off a couple of times and i'm kinda pissed that i paid extra to see it at imax.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

  

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JRennolds
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Sun Jul-18-10 07:49 PM

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179. "A+ GOAT and yes, it was a dream."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He did not wake up when the van hit the water.

GOMD

  

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okaycomputer
Member since Dec 02nd 2002
8090 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 07:03 AM

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215. "Nope"
In response to Reply # 179


          

He woke up on the plane after the drugs wore off. That would have happened regardless.

If he hadn't caught up with the Ken W. while In Limbo, chances are one of both of them would have awaken with zero sense of what had occured and consequently, gone insane.

Because Leo was able to retain his knowledge of the 'real' world while traversing through limbo(and thus also retain his youthful appearance), he was able to save Ken W. who up until that point had lost all concept of his real life.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 09:36 PM

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180. "After further thought, some grievances:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So as a guy who loves sci fi, film noir, and Leonardo DiCaprio flicks, I was wondering why this hasn't been sticking. Three complaints come to mind:

1. The majority of the characters are seriously under-developed, and the only reason they're engaging at all is because they use smart, well-cast actors in those roles. Ellen Page has ZERO character-- she is merely a device to ask questions that need to be explained. We never get to see Leo be in love with his wife or his kids much at all because he's too busy explaining every intricate detail of how this world works-- the only thing that makes me connect with him at all is his acting. Gordon-Levitt and Hardy float by on their charm-- the small moments of humor (the bigger gun, the kiss on the bench) were such welcome changes from the usual expository dialogue they were given.

2. I'm not convinced the logic in this film is airtight at all. Nolan basically did what Ellen Page did-- created sets of stairs that don't truly fit together but feel real. The rules of dreaming seem fairly strict too-- isn't the whole thing about dreaming that there are no rules? Everything here is very regimented, very lucky, and very structured. Of course, you can always use the "it's a dream, anything can happen in a dream" excuse to cover any big logic gaps or inconsistencies in the rules of dreams or dream levels, so I'm just bitching. I just wish there were more moments that felt as dreamy and disorienting as those first 10 minutes, or the first Ellen Page sequence, or the floating JGL sequence.

3. The snowhill action sequence feels VERY 80s. Come on. You know it does.

I mean, the shit was still cool, very entertaining, well-acted, gorgeous visuals, etc. I'll likely see it again... but everyone saying "masterpiece"... I just don't see it. It's not better than The Matrix. Or Children of Men. Or Minority Report either, really. Those movies had character development, folks you cared about more.

The fact that it got mentioned in the same breath as those flicks in a summer that's been so disappointing is compliment enough, though.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Rjcc
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:07 PM

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182. "I feel like you kinda just gotta let that shit go"
In response to Reply # 180


          

I realize for a cat like you, you're gonna need an argument for the year's top 10 lists or whatever down the road but whatever

and I'm not really one to give movies a pass, PLUS, everything you said I agree with, whether I assumed it before watching the movie or now, but


the movie's about making movies.

*shrug*

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www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sun Jul-18-10 11:32 PM

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190. "Oh, no doubt. I enjoyed the flick, and the shit's cool. But..."
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

...since my Facebook feed and newspapers are flooded with people throwing the words "genius" "masterpiece" and comparing it to all-time sci-fi greats, and I didn't really feel THAT way about it leaving the theater, I've been thinking about why.

But I'll almost certainly see it again.

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poetx
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Sun Jul-18-10 10:13 PM

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184. "reply #183 addresses some of these. "
In response to Reply # 180


  

          


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 11:34 PM

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191. "While I get that, that level of complexity affects the film's characters..."
In response to Reply # 184
Sun Jul-18-10 11:35 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

I totally understand what you're saying, and I agree that I felt that way, but without further dimensional development, the characters feel colder and I can't connect on that extra level and care that extra amount about what's happening.

I can sit and think about how incredibly cool and clever the shit is. But that's different. Feel me?

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My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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poetx
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:13 AM

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241. "i understand. but dude is tom hanks on the island here. but we're "
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

distracted by the shit that's blowing up and the maze he's creating for himself to keep himself from going insane while he's going insane.

mal, saito, ariadne, all them are different faces of wilson.

does that change your perception of their depth?

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 04:29 PM

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280. "I mean, I get it and admire the ingenuity. But..."
In response to Reply # 241


  

          

...while I can admire a very detailed sketch of a maze, and enjoy its complications, and appreciate it on an intellectual level, I'm never gonna hang it on my wall because I can't connect with it.

I need something in there to connect to in order to make the film hit me harder.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 11:48 PM

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193. "You're pretty much nitpicking here, Frank"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          


>We never get to see Leo be in love with his wife or his kids much at >all because he's too busy explaining every intricate detail of how >this world works

Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? They don't show him happy or in love with his wife and kids, because his thoughts of them are dominated by the tragedy associated with them (her breakdown, her death, him abandoning them). That he won't even let himself visualize their faces is pretty huge plot point, so flash-backs showing interaction with them kind of defeats the purpose.


>2. I'm not convinced the logic in this film is airtight at
>all. Nolan basically did what Ellen Page did-- created sets of
>stairs that don't truly fit together but feel real. The rules
>of dreaming seem fairly strict too-- isn't the whole thing
>about dreaming that there are no rules?

I'm not really understanding the criticism here. Are you saying that the logic in here isn't airtight because Nolan defines the rules of building a dream are very strict? And you want it to be less strict, and therefore less airtight?

>so I'm just bitching.

I kind of think so.

>I just wish there were more moments that felt as dreamy and
>disorienting as those first 10 minutes, or the first Ellen
>Page sequence, or the floating JGL sequence.

Those are three of the centerpiece scenes of the film, totaling about a half an hour of a two a half hour movie. Plus, you get the initial car chase through the first level of the dream (complete with the train), Ellen visiting Leo's dream (the whole elevator sequence), and Leo and Ellen Page initial journey through the subconscious (with the massive crumbling building). That's a lot of dreamy and disorienting set-pieces. You've got to have some story and plot development in there.

>3. The snowhill action sequence feels VERY 80s. Come on. You
>know it does.

Eh, again, that's kind of the point.

>I mean, the shit was still cool, very entertaining,
>well-acted, gorgeous visuals, etc. I'll likely see it again...
>but everyone saying "masterpiece"...

I feel comfortable calling it a very, very, very good film. I want to see it again, in IMAX before I make further judgment. But a lot of the complaints I'm hearing seem like standard contrarian backlash that usually comes around.

>It's not better than The Matrix.

IMHO, yes it is.

>Or Children of Men.

I agree.

>Or Minority Report either, really.

This might be better.

>Those movies had character development, folks you cared about more.

I've always found the "I need characters that I care about more" in most action films to be a cop out. Most character in these films aren't remotely interesting. I mean, really no one gave two shits about Neo. There was no character development there. And as much as I like Minority Report, Tom Cruise's character was largely boring as well.

-----------------

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Rjcc
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Mon Jul-19-10 12:06 AM

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194. "neo was lame, but I cared about him anyway"
In response to Reply # 193


          

and he seemed to care about a purpose that was bigger than himself, so he at least had appeal on that level.

i didn't really like minority report.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:27 AM

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198. "I cared about Neo about as much as any other action protagonist"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

for better or worse. Whether or not I cared about him was not the engine that kept that film moving.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 12:13 AM

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195. "But there are actual stakes."
In response to Reply # 193
Mon Jul-19-10 12:14 AM by SoulHonky

          

>I've always found the "I need characters that I care about
>more" in most action films to be a cop out. Most character in
>these films aren't remotely interesting. I mean, really no one
>gave two shits about Neo. There was no character development
>there. And as much as I like Minority Report, Tom Cruise's
>character was largely boring as well.

Neo might not have been the most interesting character but you cared about his journey because he had to save the world. If the Matrix got him, it was over (and then the more interesting characters like Trinity and Morpheus would die.)

But in Inception, the stakes we are given are, "I need to do this so I can get back to my kids." And we never see him with the kids. Having any of his cohorts die or worrying about them making it out before the kick didn't seem to matter much since they were all (by design or not) one dimensional. Breaking up the company? Did anyone care about that? Were we even supposed to?

Minority Report is a good comparison (I also didn't really like it that much) with the whodunnit being replaced by whatisreal. For me, though, the fact that potentially nothing was grounded in reality (which I felt once he went down that thin alleyway) I lost interest in that because it was like, "If this isn't reality then it's all a dream and why do I care because none of this could be real besides Leo's boring character who's in limbo or something."

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:25 AM

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197. "Different movie, different stakes"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          


>Neo might not have been the most interesting character but you
>cared about his journey because he had to save the world. If
>the Matrix got him, it was over (and then the more interesting
>characters like Trinity and Morpheus would die.)

Well, that pretty much makes it like every other action movie. I didn't care about him or his journey anymore than, say Indiana Jones journey in Temple of Doom (which was a much better movie) even though the "stakes" are much lower than "The Matrix."

>But in Inception, the stakes we are given are, "I need to do
>this so I can get back to my kids." And we never see him with
>the kids. Having any of his cohorts die or worrying about them
>making it out before the kick didn't seem to matter much since
>they were all (by design or not) one dimensional. Breaking up
>the company? Did anyone care about that? Were we even supposed
>to?

In "Inception" the stakes become if they get "killed" they're consigned to Limbo where for what seems like 50 years, where they'll lose their minds and forget who are what they are. I cared enough about the characters to not want to see that happen to them. Breaking up the company was just the McGuffin.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 02:12 AM

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202. "You think Cobbs compares to Indiana Jones?!"
In response to Reply # 197
Mon Jul-19-10 02:46 AM by SoulHonky

          

>Well, that pretty much makes it like every other action movie.
>I didn't care about him or his journey anymore than, say
>Indiana Jones journey in Temple of Doom (which was a much
>better movie) even though the "stakes" are much lower than
>"The Matrix."

Indiana Jones is an infinitely more charismatic character, one that audiences had already connected with in an earlier film. And his quest was to save all the children of a village, who were enslaved and mining for stones that could help the evil forces in that film to take over the world. There's really no comparison.

Although, that's not even the point. The point is that there is no established connection to Cobbs's kids in the film and they are the main goal he's trying to reach. It's like if "Taken" started with Liam Neeson playing poker with his friends and he just gets a phone call saying that his daughter's been kidnapped. The film wouldn't have carried the same weight. It would have been fun to watch him kick ass like it was fun to see all the different levels and here the concepts but there's nothing behind it. When the stakes are COMPLETELY tied to your main character's emotions, you have to show it.


>In "Inception" the stakes become if they get "killed" they're
>consigned to Limbo where for what seems like 50 years, where
>they'll lose their minds and forget who are what they are. I
>cared enough about the characters to not want to see that
>happen to them. Breaking up the company was just the
>McGuffin.

Well, that's where people disagree. I (and I believe Frank) saw all of the supporting characters as nothing but one dimensional sidekicks. I never felt a thing for any of them and didn't really care. And the whole thing with Watanabe dying seemed like a waste because we'd already seen that he was stuck in limbo from the start so it wasn't like that was a surprise.

However, the going rationale for why the one dimensional issue isn't a problem is that those guys were all just projections of Leo's mind. They were one dimensional by design. Which just brings me back to the lack of stakes. Who cares if his projections get shot? They don't actually exist. (According to that reading of the film.)

In the end, it's just what people need from a movie. If people can get into characters without knowing anything about them or about their crusade, good for them. It'll be easier to enjoy movies. I just thought that that was a basic need for all films and personally find it hard to watch a film when I'm not at all involved with the main character or their quest. In the case of Inception, the concepts carried it and it's still in my top ten of the year but it'll be a film I forget pretty quickly (fittingly, like a dream)

----
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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
5058 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 02:15 AM

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366. "yep"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

>1. The majority of the characters are seriously
>under-developed

The movie is pretty much entirely an intellectual and visceral exercise. Even its defenders should acknowledge that its fairly thin on emotion.


>2. I'm not convinced the logic in this film is airtight at
>all. Nolan basically did what Ellen Page did-- created sets of
>stairs that don't truly fit together but feel real.

Great analogy. The movie is so busy (introducing new major rules fairly late in the game during the final "heist") that it never gives you a chance to verify the logic. In short: it doesn't add up. Fewer, simpler rules would have been much better.


>3. The snowhill action sequence feels VERY 80s. Come on. You
>know it does.

The weakest section of the movie. I said to my brother at the film "Nolan's dreams must look entirely like 80s Bond films."

Was anyone genuinely thrilled at all that snowmobile and skiing shit?

--------

hell-below.com

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 10:43 PM

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186. "thought"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-18-10 10:52 PM by lfresh

  

          

what if Leo was really Mal

explain to me why this could not be


its late and i get to kooky thinking
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 11:37 PM

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192. "The entire Inception storyline would have been nonsense"
In response to Reply # 186


          

Leo went into his own brain and planted something that he woke up and didn't remember planting? I mean, isn't that just a convoluted way of coming up with something on your own? And then he killed himself?

And where did the kids come from?

The whole film would seem pretty pointless. He goes through all of that to tell the real him that he wouldn't be with her anymore or something?

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 02:26 PM

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270. "maybe i did not type clearly"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

what if Leo was really Mal
and she was dreaming Leo
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Mori
Charter member
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Sun Jul-18-10 11:17 PM

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189. "Awful"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Probably the only woman in America who thought this was badly written, overacting by DiCaprio.

Watanabe was great, Eames was good, Paige was charming, Levitt was his usual self.

I thought the Escher-esque concept of dream within a dream was cool. I liked bending perception/reality and tapping into the subconscious.

I did NOT like, how they just did things with no connection. What is with the snow mountain? Why did they have to explain their plan for 20 minutes (I took a nap).

Why was the music so annoying building up to something and nothing happening.

Nothing like the Matrix, Memento or Dark Knight.

Conceptually great, but execution was mediocre.

People like it cause we are desperate for a good non children's movie.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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ternary_star
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Mon Jul-19-10 07:05 AM

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216. "what the fuck is with grown ass people sleeping in movies?"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

do y'all get your diaper changed every day, too?

jesus christ...you can't keep your shit together long enough to make it through 2 hours without falling asleep? y'all wouldn't survive a day on Elm Street.

reminds me of a dude at my screening who sprinted down the aisle during the last 15 minutes of the movie, presumably for a bathroom break. like, you *REALLY* didn't know that downing a Big Gulp would make you want to piss? or do you not really care about the movie and are just so desperate for any form of human contact that you pay $10 to sit in a dark room with strangers?

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 10:28 AM

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246. "That's the funniest shit I've read in a minute."
In response to Reply # 216


          

That's all true tho...

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Mon Jul-19-10 03:19 PM

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275. "LOL, preach!"
In response to Reply # 216


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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al_sharp
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Tue Jul-20-10 05:14 PM

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334. "lol i did the sprint to the bathroom thing too..."
In response to Reply # 216


  

          

i waited for so long for the right moment to do so...and when i did it, there were 2 other guys who did it at the same time. we all laughed about it when we got to the bathroom.


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

http://twitter.com/shamelessplug
http://youlooklikecraptoday.com

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Mon Jul-19-10 06:59 PM

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286. "damn bro you sound mentally crippled."
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 01:41 AM

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199. "C.Note done did it again."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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samgar
Member since Jan 27th 2005
5813 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 02:28 AM

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205. "brilliant costume design btw"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


_______________

I WAS IN THE POOL!


http://www.last.fm/user/realsegway

  

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da_illest_one
Member since Apr 09th 2005
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Mon Jul-19-10 06:32 AM

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212. "SPOILERS....slight.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

......

When he wakes up on the plane with the rest of his team and spins the totem to test reality after he is re-united with his children, however the top of the totem slows down and begins to wobble confirming that he's just in another level of the dream state....

How does anyone else perceive it?

On The Lookout 4:
some new music. WTF is going on this year?

  

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ternary_star
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Mon Jul-19-10 06:59 AM

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214. "the totem falling would mean he's awake"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

the last shot is 100% inconclusive. obviously, intentionally so.

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 06:50 AM

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213. "A masterpiece?!! More like Nolan's masturbatory piece"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That’s what this is.

Chris Nolan is in love with his own voice as a writer. He is in love with his own thoughts for that matter.

Nolan has outsmarted himself with this highfalutin story. He doesn’t even know how the story ends. Nor does he care. This movie is not meant for you to try and figure out and re-watch or should I say re-listen for more clues. Nolan is actually Cobb. He tapped into the majority audience’s subconscious, and planted the idea this is actually a good movie. And it has spread like a virus.

Oh yes, I was waiting on a train alright, like Mal. To run me over and get me back to reality from this nightmare of a movie.

In all seriousness,

The movie Inception must be a dream, because in reality, real people don’t actually talk like this.

What is thrilling about characters talking the entire plot out for 2 and half hours? What is the excitement in that? Where is the thrill? The drama? Eh…the acting? Its killed before it even gets started by 2 and half hours of exposition?

Big beautiful scenery, character exposition, more big beautiful scenery, more character exposition, random explosions, beaches. oceans, snow, skiing, propelling, mountains, buildings collapsing, a white van suspended in air, UFC fighting sans gravity, Marion Cotillard’s fine ass popping out of nowhere stabbing and shooting n*ggas, jumping off window ledges, etc. Leo’s big vein in his forehead bulging every time he is trying to be serious

I mean, cmon.

The only entertaining quality of this movie is its absurdity.

Oh yeah, could anybody make out what the Japenese dude said for ¾’s of the movie? He was doing alright in the beginning, but after that he was inaudible and hard to understand.

Nolan picked up where he left out with the Dark Knight. Another film ruined by Nolan’s dogma.

As a writer, your job is storytelling, not having your characters explain everything away. Its not a movie anymore, its a manual. And the beautiful shot sequences, score, random explosions,etc. can’t get around this problem.

But that doesn’t matter.

Nolan has the formula down pat. He is Cobb. He has the viewing public in the palm of his hands.

Will it make boatload of money? Sure.

Will it get some Oscars out of this? Most likely.

Is it a good movie? No.

<--- we've got bush!

  

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ternary_star
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Mon Jul-19-10 07:13 AM

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217. "the clunky exposition is a definite valid problem"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

that's usually my biggest pet peeve in movies...a "Mr./Ms. Exposition" scene (the final elevator scene in "Vanilla Sky" always stands out to me as one of the worst ever)...and Inception has several of them.

but i loved the movie. maybe because what the characters are awkardly explaining is so interesting or the actors are so likeable, i didn't mind as much. i know it's going to annoy me on subsequent viewings, but i dug the shit out of this movie.

  

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BigReg
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Mon Jul-19-10 07:38 AM

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221. "It's cause Nolan kinda put himself in an awkward position"
In response to Reply # 217
Mon Jul-19-10 08:44 AM by BigReg

  

          

For that kind of movie, you NEED the exposition or the audience is lost; to make it happen organically where the audience wouldn't have needed it would have added on another hour to the movie. On the flip, to cut it out it would have made the movie 'Donnie Darko'.

I personally thought it was fine; for the amount of explaining the movie had to do I thought they hid it pretty well. The issue is though I think it would have been perfect if while the characters explained it to you, you were emotionally invested in those characters.

To me, exposition works on these films when you have a character that the audience connects with, and continually calls out the bullshit in the movie(which the movie answers) making it kind of seamless. Ellen Page did a decent job just because we all have the archetype of the 'cute eyes wide-eyed college girl' in our heads to help fill the gap and try to make that connection.

>that's usually my biggest pet peeve in movies...a "Mr./Ms.
>Exposition" scene (the final elevator scene in "Vanilla Sky"
>always stands out to me as one of the worst ever)...and
>Inception has several of them.
>
>but i loved the movie. maybe because what the characters are
>awkardly explaining is so interesting or the actors are so
>likeable, i didn't mind as much. i know it's going to annoy
>me on subsequent viewings, but i dug the shit out of this
>movie.

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 08:42 AM

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224. "i think it kind of puts Nolan in a safe position."
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

the exposition is his crutch.

he couldn't write a story, so he has the characters tell it.

like i said, that isn't a movie. that is a manual.

its the same issue with the Dark Knight.

how do we know Harvey Dent is Gotham's white knight besides the fact that it is said by one of the characters?

where was the character development of Harvey Dent to make it believable that he was once viewed as Gotham's white knight? Again, that doesn't need more hours to show it. It just needs good writing, good storytelling. Is it challenge, yes? Is it impossible, no?

Exposition is okay in spots. But through an entire movie like Angel and Demons? Like Inception? Its just a waste.

its like you said, about the emotional connection to the characters. they are merely projections (no pun) in the movie. its hard to connect or invest with characters who dont' talk with each other but at each other....or us, the viewing audience.



>

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 09:30 AM

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229. "But there was no Sammy Jankis story that could explain it."
In response to Reply # 224


          

I'm with you on The Dark Knight because everything was told to us but in this film, but the central conceit of the film was so involved that they had to explain it. Memento pulled off the expository dialogue better than any Nolan film because it was wrapped about the Sammy Jankis story; there was no story that could have been used to describe Inception.

This film had a lot of questions to answer - what if you get shot? Limbo. Why's limbo bad? You'll be there for decades. - that required prolonged answers so I didn't mind it that much.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 09:49 AM

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234. "i don't know man"
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

>I'm with you on The Dark Knight because everything was told
>to us but in this film, but the central conceit of the film
>was so involved that they had to explain it. Memento pulled
>off the expository dialogue better than any Nolan film because
>it was wrapped about the Sammy Jankis story; there was no
>story that could have been used to describe Inception.
>

my point exactly. its not a film. Inception is "The Nolan Commandments" on screen. There is a reason why this was on the shelf for over a decade. Had he dropped something like this early in his career, he wouldn't have a career right now. The Dark Knight success allowed free reign and gave him the credibility to make a movie like this.



>This film had a lot of questions to answer - what if you get
>shot? Limbo. Why's limbo bad? You'll be there for decades. -
>that required prolonged answers so I didn't mind it that much.
>

this film still has a lot of questions to answer. but they aren't worth asking, because the movie and the characters in it, are hollow to begin with.

its just empty. all style no substance, but it tries to come off as if it had so much substance.

Nolan's strength in his movie is also its weakness. The geninus level of detail that required explanation cuts the balls off and sucks the intellect and potential greatness out of the movie.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 10:03 AM

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238. "This is where I am"
In response to Reply # 234


          

>this film still has a lot of questions to answer. but they
>aren't worth asking, because the movie and the characters in
>it, are hollow to begin with.

Although I did like the reality or dream element so that still intrigues me. As I've said, I wanted to know if he was in the real world in the end, not because I wanted him to get back to his kids, but just because I was interested in the dream states. (And for some people, the dream element was enough for them to buy into the whole film. I'm fine with that; it just isn't what I look for in a film.)

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 10:18 AM

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244. "he was dreaming, and i'm not even sure Mal was even dead"
In response to Reply # 238


  

          

remember Cobb said Mal thought their kids were projections, right? And she thought they had real kids aside from them.

But then at the end Mal said something about loving the kids and she referred to them as James and Phillipa(sp?).

And i think at the end, James and Phillipa were the names of the 2 kids.

Cobb could never give Mal up, and he finally relented to the "idea" he formed in Mal's head. It happens all the time. You want somebody so bad or can't let them go, your world becomes their world, no matter how crazy it is.

but then again this could be another Shutter Island. all this sh*t was in his head to begin with, he is just one crazy muthaf*cker.

where was Chuck when you need him, right? lol

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 10:39 AM

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250. "also, how is he dreaming for this long?"
In response to Reply # 244
Mon Jul-19-10 10:41 AM by FortifiedLive

  

          

he either:

1. is in a coma.
2. is deep in dream levels.

and yeah, i think Mal is still alive.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 04:20 PM

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278. "I agree with this 100%."
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

>For that kind of movie, you NEED the exposition or the
>audience is lost; to make it happen organically where the
>audience wouldn't have needed it would have added on another
>hour to the movie. On the flip, to cut it out it would have
>made the movie 'Donnie Darko'.
>
>I personally thought it was fine; for the amount of explaining
>the movie had to do I thought they hid it pretty well. The
>issue is though I think it would have been perfect if while
>the characters explained it to you, you were emotionally
>invested in those characters.
>


My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 10:51 AM

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252. "Nolan's masterpiece of shit"
In response to Reply # 213


          

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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Tue Jul-20-10 05:48 AM

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293. "i agree completely. it was deeply awful."
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

i struggled to stay awake. thank goodness for Coke.

fuck you.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:11 PM

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494. "more like jambone's masturbatory post"
In response to Reply # 213


          

>Chris Nolan is in love with his own voice as a writer. He is
>in love with his own thoughts for that matter.

hey just like your posting.

  

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ternary_star
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15211 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 07:16 AM

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218. "where does Cobb's father live?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the first time he meets him, he's teaching architecture in France, right?

and in the final scene, he's picking Cobb up at the airport in Los Angeles.

  

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BigReg
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Mon Jul-19-10 07:30 AM

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220. "Probably France"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

But the movie hinted he visits Leo's kids often by the fact that Leo dropped off a bag of gifts 'for the kids' when he went to his college to talk him into helping him recruit a new architect.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jul-19-10 09:21 AM

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227. "RE: where does Cobb's father live?"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

at some point they mention that he is going to the states.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 01:14 PM

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264. "Didn't Cobb drop off some gifts for the kids,"
In response to Reply # 218


          


with his dad, because he was about to go visit them in LA?

  

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buildingblock
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100000 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 07:29 AM

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219. "the whole fuckin' movie is one of those morbius loops or whatever the "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck he did with the stairs
simple as that
end of story
special effects was cool
this was just the matrix for the mind
cool to watch, but it's nothing more
i liked it, but i'll wait for bootleg to see it again

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...©melle mel

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 08:10 AM

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222. "*tries to think of another heist movie with "emotional stakes"*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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BigReg
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Mon Jul-19-10 08:24 AM

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223. "I see your point"
In response to Reply # 222
Mon Jul-19-10 08:36 AM by BigReg

  

          

Id argue Heat since half the movie is about their home lives, although I don't know if that's technically a Heist movie

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 09:17 AM

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225. "Most of them."
In response to Reply # 222


          

- Ocean's 11 is about getting the girl back
- Swordfish is about getting his daughter back
- Sneakers is about clearing his name
- The Bank Job is about providing for his family
- Sexy Beast is protecting his family
- Getting back the family farm is The Asphalt Jungle
- Gone in 60 Seconds is about saving his brother
- The Italian Job is revenge over the murder of a loved one.
- Pretty much every "One Last Job" movie is about settling down with the woman the hero loves.

Inception is original in that it has the added layer of having the whole thing potentially being an exercise to get Leo over the loss of his wife and that the entire heist itself might just be an exercise towards that end. But to imply that other films don't have "emotional stakes" is ridiculous.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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BigReg
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Mon Jul-19-10 09:41 AM

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231. "Most of those have as flimsy if not worse"
In response to Reply # 225
Mon Jul-19-10 09:42 AM by BigReg

  

          

emotional connections, at least from the ones Ive seen. Exception would be 'Sexy Beast' and id argue it's not as much of a heist movie...really 70% of it is about a persons family getting taken hostage by a sociopath.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 09:48 AM

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233. "They are all set up better though."
In response to Reply # 231


          

Again, Inception is like if, in Ocean's 11, we only saw random montages of Danny and Tess together in the past and the only time they spoke, Tess was trying to foil his plot. You wouldn't really have cared whether he got her in the end.

Inception is a far more involved film emotionally (again, because the heist didn't matter) but I don't think those emotions were ever set up or grounded in the real world. I mean, you have people here wondering if the kids were even real. That relationship was the core of the film and, personally, I never really cared about it.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 10:14 AM

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242. "^^^ Sees it"
In response to Reply # 231


  

          

>Exception would be 'Sexy Beast' and id argue it's not as much
>of a heist movie...really 70% of it is about a persons family
>getting taken hostage by a sociopath.

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 09:47 AM

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232. "You're kind of missing the point though"
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

People here seem to be complaining that "Inception" doesn't have emotional stakes, or at least, the "emotional" stakes aren't compelling enough to make them care. But of the movies you listed, at least three of them outright suck no matter what "emotinal stakes" are in the film. Did Hugh Jackman trying to get his daughter back from his evil ex-wife and her porn-director step-father make anyone enjoy/care about "Swordwfish"? And of the rest, what makes them good/work has little to do with the emotional stakes, e.g. the Julia Roberts shit in "Ocean's 11."

In just about every movie you listed, the "emotional stakes" are no more compelling than "Inception." And in most, they're less.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 09:56 AM

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236. "I was answering Zoo's question"
In response to Reply # 232


          

he asked for films with emotional stakes, I listed them.

I'm not saying that those films were good or not. He asked about heist films with emotional stakes and I was just pointing out that most of them do. (And yes, Swordfish was made better by the backstory because if he was just a hired gun working for Travolta, you wouldn't have cared at all about his character. Doesn't mean the film is great but it would have been even worse without our seeing that backstory)

And you might not have liked Julia in Ocean's 11 but take her out of the film and everything that that storyline causes and the film is flimsy and not nearly as interesting.

>In just about every movie you listed, the "emotional stakes"
>are no more compelling than "Inception." And in most, they're
>less.

Except I didn't find the emotional stakes in Inception to be compelling at all. At the end of the film, I didn't care whether or not Leo got with his kids; I just wanted to know if he was in the real world or not. And honestly, I didn't care either way, I just wanted to know because I'd spent 2.5 hours watching the film and wanted an answer.

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:11 AM

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240. "Sure."
In response to Reply # 225
Mon Jul-19-10 10:13 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

I go to heist movies to see if people can pull off heists. At its heart, Inception is a heist movie.

EDIT: At its heart, Inception is a *noir* heist movie. Figured I'd correct that instead of mentioning it later so that I'm not accused of changing the argument or whatever.

I went to see Inception to see if Leo and his crew could pull of this heist, not to make a deep emotional investment in the relationship between Leo and Marion Cotillard. That backstory helped, and it helped explain the (literal) mental block that Mal provided for Dom *as he tried to accomplish his goal of pulling off the heist*, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

I, for one, didn't go to see Ocean's 11 to see if George Clooney could try to win Julio Roberts back. Because the attraction of that film to me was: 1. the cast; 2. the heist. I didn't give a flying fuck about Danny's feelings about Tess. Their relationship was cute, and fun, and funny, but it wasn't the draw for me. Same for most of the other movies you listed there.

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Rjcc
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:32 AM

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247. "can someone imagine themselves pulling off a heist?"
In response to Reply # 240


          

isn't incredibly thrilling.

but I'd figured you'd defend this shit to death.

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www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 12:57 PM

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260. "It's not about being the "draw""
In response to Reply # 240


          

Nobody went to see "Taken" to see Liam Neeson's relationship with Maggie Grace but those scenes of him trying to be a dad (and basically failing) added to the rest of the movie. Would people still have liked seeing him kick ass without it? Yes. But the film is better with those scenes.

The "How Will They Do It" or "Will they get away?" elements might be enough for some members of the audience but I really don't see why it's such a crazy idea that adding some emotional heft to the characters (or given them personalities) could have made the film better.

It's just one of those films that I thought was intriguing but not entertaining and I can see why people would love it or hate it.

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ZooTown74
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:24 PM

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266. "I said for *ME* it was the draw. For me."
In response to Reply # 260


  

          

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:46 PM

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268. "I think we're using "draw" differently."
In response to Reply # 266


          

I read "draw" as what gets you to see the film. The draw for Inception for pretty much everyone was the heist element. That's why I said it's not about the "draw". I don't know anybody who went to see the film to see the Cobbs/Mal relationship.

If what draws you in AND keeps you there is the heist, great. I'm just not sure why it's crazy to think that other people might want some sort of emotional investment or that the absence of that makes the film less entertaining to them or how it's so hard to see that the presence of those elements improve other heist flicks (and to Mr. Hood, I'm not saying that any film with an emotional investment is better than Inception. I'm saying that I think Inception would be off if it had one or the other films would actually have been worse without it.)

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 04:25 PM

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279. "Well, all of those other films do have more character development."
In response to Reply # 240


  

          

I don't think those other movies are all better films than Inception necessarily, but they have time to give their characters personality traits, something I sincerely missed in this film. I don't need big emotional scenes for me to care more, but I do need personality traits to sympathize and care with the characters and then emotionally connect to their fate.

I see your point and agree with it, and maybe it's just an issue with heist movies in general-- that they are destined to never be greater than "cool." Because even if this is the greatest heist movie ever (and it might be up there after repeated viewings) I still have trouble calling it a truly great film, much less a masterpiece, if I don't care about the characters. I agree with the succinct point you made, but there's a difference between the impact of emotional stakes and the impact of characters with personality that you can connect with.

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ZooTown74
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Tue Jul-20-10 07:55 AM

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299. "Really? Ocean's 11 had more character development?"
In response to Reply # 279
Tue Jul-20-10 07:56 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

I love the Ocean movies but they aren't anything but romps with good-looking rich people stealing from other good-looking rich people

The only one of those with any kind of character development worth giving a damn about is Sexy Beast

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 09:52 AM

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306. "Character development vs. developed characters"
In response to Reply # 299


          

I agree that character development is not a hallmark of heist films. In fact, in most of them, the issue is that the hero has already made his change and someone is trying to get him to go back to his old ways. Often, the one last job is just to get free to live their new life. The heist is the final moment of their character change.

But the characters in Inception were not developed at all, worst of all being Mal along with Leo's connection to his family. Now some of these people might have been projections but there needed to be some legit characters to ground us in reality. Plus, Mal and the kids were a key part of the film, not only for Leo's emotional journey but because it was also one of the biggest threats to the heist. I also don't think you can dismiss the emotional element because midway through the film, Leo's emotional journey takes becomes the focus and the heist becomes almost secondary.

----
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jigga
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Tue Jul-20-10 10:39 AM

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310. "I liked that he kept Mal mysterious. It enhanced the noirish elements."
In response to Reply # 306


  

          

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:17 AM

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313. "Again, I think it could have been enhanced with more info."
In response to Reply # 310
Tue Jul-20-10 11:22 AM by SoulHonky

          

Wouldn't the noirish element have been stronger if we'd seen her be a good person in the real world and didn't know why she suddenly became a femme fatale in Leo's mind? What does everything about her being mysterious really add? It also might have added to the "Did Leo do it or not?" element which I didn't think played at all.

I just though that whole storyline (which was the key to Leo's psyche) was underdeveloped and I never really cared about it. I thought Shutter Island handled that type of storyline much better.

----
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jigga
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Tue Jul-20-10 12:10 PM

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319. "The key Chris Noirlan element is that she's the femme fatale."
In response to Reply # 313


  

          

This is established right off the bat in her opening scene.

>Wouldn't the noirish element have been stronger if we'd seen
>her be a good person in the real world

No. At least not for me. I don't need to see a good girl before she goes bad. I liked the fact that she was bad from the start & then the flashbacks filled me in later. Another noirish trait if I'm not mistaken.

and didn't know why she
>suddenly became a femme fatale in Leo's mind?

We would've had to find out either way right? Nolan cut to the chase here so he could focus more on the science. This works for me as I'm more interested in how this world works than seeing some extended typical run of the mill lovey dovey scenes between the two of them. Had he not included any at all then I would've had a problem with it. But he shows those briefly in the flashbacks & that's all needed to move the story forward.

What does
>everything about her being mysterious really add?

The extra element of fear & danger. Juno gets bumped around a little bit by Emo's preceptions but once Mal shows up with the knife it's on. She's a problem & must be dealt with.

It also
>might have added to the "Did Leo do it or not?" element which
>I didn't think played at all.

Did he do what? Kill her? If so, fair point. But that could also play into the guilt thing that Frank mentions is so prevalent in Nolan's protaganists. Does he not want to go back & face the facts because he feels guilty? Or was he really guilty & wanted by the law?

>I just though that whole storyline (which was the key to Leo's
>psyche) was underdeveloped and I never really cared about it.
>I thought Shutter Island handled that type of storyline much
>better.

Aiiight man I've been holding off on this one for awhile now but I'll do my best to check it out soon for a comparison.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:29 AM

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315. "I'd argue almost none have more character development or"
In response to Reply # 279


  

          

developed characters. Everyone in "Gone In 60 Seconds," "Swordfish," and "Italian Job" are completely populated with wind-up toys. And the characters in "Sneakers" and "Ocean's 11" (both of which I like) are easier to sympathize with/connect to because they're written to be funny. And you easier to sympathize with chracters that are designed to make you smile. Like Zoo said, "Sexy Beast" is really the only one of those films with any sort of character devleopment.

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mrhood75
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Mon Jul-19-10 09:53 AM

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235. "I had no idea that this was such an "emotional" place"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

What I find ironic as that a lot of the complaints about "Dark Knight" in PTP were along the lines of, "This movie takes itself too seriously. Who cares about that emo Bruce Wayne shit? This is just a superhero movie. Blow some shit up." And now with "Inception," people are complaining that it doesn't have the emotional depth of "The Notebook."

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 09:59 AM

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237. "Actually, The Dark Knight complaints were very similar to this one."
In response to Reply # 235
Mon Jul-19-10 10:07 AM by SoulHonky

          

In fact, most of the complaints are COMPLETELY the opposite of "Just blow shit up!" You seem so focused on telling people they are missing the point that you are ignoring what they are saying.

EDIT: People are saying why they liked the film and you're telling them they are wrong or are being nitpicky. I'll admit that I might write some thing in universal terms when it should be my taste but I've never told anyone they are wrong for liking the film. I get why people can be wholly invested in the dream state and not need more than a passing reference to the relationship (or a few monologues as to why Dent is the White Knight). I'm not saying those people are wrong; it's just not what I look for in a film.

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jigga
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Mon Jul-19-10 12:48 PM

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258. "People weren't paying attention to what Dent DID in TDK"
In response to Reply # 237


  

          

I clearly remember him punching a co-d's lights out on the stand.

I clearly remember him being INVESTED in putting a stop to Gotham's criminal underworld.

He worked with the Gordon, the commisioner (before he died), & mayor on solving the crime problem.

But cats just wanna focus on speeches ABOUT what was actually going on, that they didn't like to nitpick.

Chris Noirlan can't please everyone. But I'd say he found the right balance with these last 2 flicks.

For record, I think Memento is still his masterpiece. I've seen Inception twice & it's close but I hope the 3rd time's the charm as far as me putting it all together.

I like what I'm reading on all the different interpretations except those who think the whole thing was a dream & therefore it really didn't mean a thing. There's clearly a reality in the movie that exists. No offense to those who can't see it or refuse to believe it.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:05 PM

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261. "I clearly remember Dawes and Gordon doing similar things"
In response to Reply # 258
Mon Jul-19-10 01:06 PM by SoulHonky

          

>I clearly remember him punching a co-d's lights out on the
>stand.

Rachel was ready to try the case. She wasn't afraid of Marconi.

I could see if Dent was the only guy who was willing to stand up to the crime bosses but literally every person of significance in the film, all the way to the people on the ferries, stood up for what was right. The only reason that Dent was more significant than the others was because of Bruce Wayne's constant monologues.

Gordon was constantly putting himself in harm's way. If I was him, I'd be like, "Fuck that guy. How am I not the White Night?"

But let's not turn this into a Dark Knight discussion since those always get hijacked by agendas.

>For record, I think Memento is still his masterpiece.

Agreed.

>I like what I'm reading on all the different interpretations
>except those who think the whole thing was a dream & therefore
>it really didn't mean a thing. There's clearly a reality in
>the movie that exists. No offense to those who can't see it or
>refuse to believe it.

I'm with you. I've thought it was all a dream but am off of that boat, even if that means the chase scene with Eames was real (that one alleyway really throws me though). I think that it's very intriguing. I go back and forth about what was real or not. But not once have I ever cared whether or not Leo got back to his real kids. I just want to know for my own curiosity.

----
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jigga
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269. "Well he wouldn't want Dawes to take his place for obvious reasons"
In response to Reply # 261


  

          

and Gordon was there to help him so Dent's the man for the job as he's willing to do the dirty work that Gordon won't.

>>I clearly remember him punching a co-d's lights out on the
>>stand.
>
>Rachel was ready to try the case. She wasn't afraid of
>Marconi.
>
>I could see if Dent was the only guy who was willing to stand
>up to the crime bosses but literally every person of
>significance in the film, all the way to the people on the
>ferries, stood up for what was right. The only reason that
>Dent was more significant than the others was because of
>Bruce Wayne's constant monologues.

No. He was aware & SAW what Dent was doing. He didn't pick his name out of a hat. He was already in a position of power to get it done. The people on the ferries weren't until they were thrown into that situation.

>Gordon was constantly putting himself in harm's way. If I was
>him, I'd be like, "Fuck that guy. How am I not the White
>Night?"

Lol. Gordon had a wife & kids at home. He was doing enough already & I'm sure he didn't want or need the extra burden.

>But let's not turn this into a Dark Knight discussion since
>those always get hijacked by agendas.

Fair enough fam

>>For record, I think Memento is still his masterpiece.
>
>Agreed.
>
>>I like what I'm reading on all the different interpretations
>>except those who think the whole thing was a dream &
>therefore
>>it really didn't mean a thing. There's clearly a reality in
>>the movie that exists. No offense to those who can't see it
>or
>>refuse to believe it.
>
>I'm with you. I've thought it was all a dream but am off of
>that boat, even if that means the chase scene with Eames was
>real (that one alleyway really throws me though). I think
>that it's very intriguing. I go back and forth about what was
>real or not.

That was one of my favorite shots from the trailer & I was somewhat surprised to see it take place in the film where it didn't appear to be a dream. I'll have to rewatch that whole sequence more carefully next time.

  

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SoulHonky
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Mon Jul-19-10 04:14 PM

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277. "Yeah, that's the scene that's tripping me up."
In response to Reply # 269


          

I thought the scene with him talking on the phone with his kids was reality. There are two sets of kids listed in the credits and I think that is the scene in which the older kids' voices appear (I'm not sure they ever show up in the film and I'm almost sure the kids at the end are the same as the ones from memory.) But then that scene with Eames seems like a guy who's been tricked into thinking his subconscious is after him and the alleyway is very dreamlike but I'm not sure when he would have fallen into the dream state. Maybe on the flight to Paris? I don't know. I'll check it again when it comes out on DVD.

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:17 AM

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243. "^^^ Also sees it"
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

>What I find ironic as that a lot of the complaints about
>"Dark Knight" in PTP were along the lines of, "This movie
>takes itself too seriously. Who cares about that emo Bruce
>Wayne shit? This is just a superhero movie. Blow some shit
>up." And now with "Inception," people are complaining that it
>doesn't have the emotional depth of "The Notebook."

And that "the heist didn't matter."

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Mon Jul-19-10 02:32 PM

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273. "wait the heist mattered>?"
In response to Reply # 243


  

          

>>What I find ironic as that a lot of the complaints about
>>"Dark Knight" in PTP were along the lines of, "This movie
>>takes itself too seriously. Who cares about that emo Bruce
>>Wayne shit? This is just a superhero movie. Blow some shit
>>up." And now with "Inception," people are complaining that
>it
>>doesn't have the emotional depth of "The Notebook."
>
>And that "the heist didn't matter."


i felt like nolan walked away from that heist at one point
came back to it and went 'oh and the end'
now...back to leo and his thing with his wife

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 10:02 AM

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308. "It was more of a con than a heist"
In response to Reply # 273


          

They were trying to con Fischer isn't thinking he had to be part of the heist and they had to get it done before they were exposed. But perhaps the con was actually being pulled on Leo!

The heist element didn't seem that strong to me. There weren't many twists and turns, they could easily get around any issues they ran into (besides the subconscious going after them), and it started with the scion of a energy superpower flying commercial and not noticing that he was sitting next to his archrival. Looking at the dream layers as layers of a con seems more interesting that viewing it as a heist movie IMO.

Plus, the film opens with them failing a heist and it's not like it was the end of the world. It just meant that a guy who was already on the run had someone else to run from.

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Wed Jul-21-10 02:21 PM

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378. "oh no definitely"
In response to Reply # 308


  

          


you're right it was more of a con

>They were trying to con Fischer isn't thinking he had to be
>part of the heist and they had to get it done before they were
>exposed. But perhaps the con was actually being pulled on
>Leo!


but this is what i meant
it was all about leo
i partly suspected Ariadne was there for Leo all along
that this had little to do with Fischer

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 04:33 PM

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281. "LOL @ you blowing shit out of proportion because we criticized it."
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

>What I find ironic as that a lot of the complaints about
>"Dark Knight" in PTP were along the lines of, "This movie
>takes itself too seriously. Who cares about that emo Bruce
>Wayne shit? This is just a superhero movie. Blow some shit
>up." And now with "Inception," people are complaining that it
>doesn't have the emotional depth of "The Notebook."

Yes, that's exactly what I said. I need it to be The Notebook.

No. That's actually what nobody came close to saying. It said we needed characters with personality who weren't simply there to provide exposition and move a plot. Characters we care about make a film live, as opposed to a film that is visually and intellectually stimulating but never makes us care about what's at stake.

Come on. It's a valid criticism. It's an obvious criticism, really. Now, whether you did connect because of the performers' abilities, or whether you're content with the film's tension, mood, visuals, coolness, action, and so forth... that's fine. But the script, or at least what parts of the script make it onto the screen, provides no real character development for anyone.

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Jul-20-10 12:15 PM

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320. "C;mon, you're in here arguing that The Matrix, Italian Job..."
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

Gone in 60 Seconds, etc. have better developed characters than "Inception," I'd say outisde of Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity, all of the characters in "The Matrix" (which you listed as better than "Inception") are indistinguishable, and almost no one is particularly interesting or make the film "live."

Dude, the sole "personality trait"/"character development" of Seth Green in "Italian Job" is that he convinced he's the guy that really invented Napster. If that makes you care more about what happens to him than say, Ellen Page or Joseph Gordon Levitt or Cillian Murphy(all of whom, IMHO, were developed characters), then hey, Vaya Con Dios, but you've got to understand if I'm a little dubious.


>No. That's actually what nobody came close to saying. It said
>we needed characters with personality who weren't simply there
>to provide exposition and move a plot. Characters we care
>about make a film live, as opposed to a film that is visually
>and intellectually stimulating but never makes us care about
>what's at stake.
>
>Come on. It's a valid criticism. It's an obvious criticism,
>really. Now, whether you did connect because of the
>performers' abilities, or whether you're content with the
>film's tension, mood, visuals, coolness, action, and so
>forth... that's fine. But the script, or at least what parts
>of the script make it onto the screen, provides no real
>character development for anyone.

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 03:51 PM

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329. "First of all, I like Inception more than Italian Job or Gone in 60."
In response to Reply # 320


  

          

So miss me with that complaint.

>Gone in 60 Seconds, etc. have better developed characters
>than "Inception," I'd say outisde of Neo, Morpheus, and
>Trinity, all of the characters in "The Matrix" (which you
>listed as better than "Inception") are indistinguishable, and
>almost no one is particularly interesting or make the film
>"live."

And that's three more developed characters than Inception had, lol. I think Tank and his brother and Joey Pants had good characters.

>Dude, the sole "personality trait"/"character development" of
>Seth Green in "Italian Job" is that he convinced he's the guy
>that really invented Napster. If that makes you care more
>about what happens to him than say, Ellen Page or Joseph
>Gordon Levitt or Cillian Murphy(all of whom, IMHO, were
>developed characters), then hey, Vaya Con Dios, but you've got
>to understand if I'm a little dubious.

Cillian Murphy was the only developed character of those three. I didn't care about Seth Green because I thought that movie had no real suspense. I hated it, actually, lol. Its shittiness doesn't change the fact that Ellen Page and Joseph Gordon-Levitt only showed maybe the faintest glimmers of subtext of characters.

>>No. That's actually what nobody came close to saying. It
>said
>>we needed characters with personality who weren't simply
>there
>>to provide exposition and move a plot. Characters we care
>>about make a film live, as opposed to a film that is
>visually
>>and intellectually stimulating but never makes us care about
>>what's at stake.
>>
>>Come on. It's a valid criticism. It's an obvious criticism,
>>really. Now, whether you did connect because of the
>>performers' abilities, or whether you're content with the
>>film's tension, mood, visuals, coolness, action, and so
>>forth... that's fine. But the script, or at least what parts
>>of the script make it onto the screen, provides no real
>>character development for anyone.

^^^ this point I made still stands. It's a cool film. Maybe it's just an issue with the heist genre, since we haven't named a SINGLE great heist film in this post to date, except MAYBE Sexy Beast (which is more very good than great). But I still didn't connect, and thus I can't really call it great-- not on first viewing.

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Jul-20-10 04:43 PM

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333. "I never said you didn't."
In response to Reply # 329


  

          

I mean, if I honestly thought you liked "gone in 60 Seconds" or "ITalian Job" better than "Inception," than we wouldn't be having this discussion, becuase I wouldn't bother acknowledging anyone who thought that.

However, what did say is that they had better developed characters, which I find false.

>And that's three more developed characters than Inception had,
>lol.

Of those three, I'll give you Morpheus. Neo or Trinity aren't more developed than anyone in Inception.

>I think Tank and his brother and Joey Pants had good
>characters.

Eh, of those I'll give you Cypher.


>I didn't care about Seth Green because I thought that
>movie had no real suspense. I hated it, actually, lol.

Well so did I.

>Its shittiness doesn't change the fact that Ellen Page and Joseph
>Gordon-Levitt only showed maybe the faintest glimmers of
>subtext of characters.

Again, I'm not talking shitiness, but plot development, which is the argument you advanced in post #279.


>^^^ this point I made still stands. It's a cool film. Maybe
>it's just an issue with the heist genre, since we haven't
>named a SINGLE great heist film in this post to date, except
>MAYBE Sexy Beast (which is more very good than great). But I
>still didn't connect, and thus I can't really call it great--
>not on first viewing.

Have we mentioned "Heat"? If not, then "Heat." Plus "Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrells." And I've always thought "Sexy Beast" is great.

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Frank Longo
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338. "Well, I'd say Heat is better than Inception."
In response to Reply # 333


  

          

Even if it's not more original.

Inception gets a lot of originality points and intellectual points in my book.

Like I said, Inception is one of the better sci-fi films recently, and one of the better heist films probably ever, even without the character connection.

And as for humor being why we "relate" better to the guys in Italian Job... to be honest, the humor parts of Inception (the bigger gun, the kiss on the bench, Ellen Page self-awarely asking "Whose dream is this again?") are among the best, because they do start to flesh out the characters a tad. Hardy seems more cocky, J-G-L has a crush on Page, Page is still reeling from all of this info. These little suggestions of character all stand out strongly in my mind, and if I'd gotten more bits like this, even if it's dismissable as merely "humor moments," it would have helped the film imo. Dileep's reaction to the van landing on its wheels... they help alleviate without relieving the tension, and they help us relate to the characters more.

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LA2Philly
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Mon Jul-19-10 12:38 PM

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256. "I see your point Zoo, however....."
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

with the amount of time spent on Leo and Mal and the motivation to see his kids again, it seems like Nolan was trying to create an emotional attachment to the character. *IF* that was the intent, then he could have a done a much better job with it.....and imo that's why people are mentioning the lack of emotional resonance. Not because that is what they expect from a heist movie, but that is what they expect from a movie in which the main character's relationships and motivation are given enough screen time to be considered key components of the film.

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lfresh
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Mon Jul-19-10 02:28 PM

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272. "Out of Sight was emotional!"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

ok it was sexual
but clooney is sexy dammit
~~~~
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~~~~
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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jul-19-10 09:17 AM

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226. "No more exposition than the Matrix no?"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-19-10 09:20 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

or lack of character development for that matter. I don't know what heist movie has great character development (Ocean 11 doesn't have it but I don't think anyone complains about it).

I think it was worth explaining more why we want the inception to work (I think it would have been better if Saito worked for the govt. and not a rival corp.)

I think the Big Critic criticism that is the most off-base is the criticism that the Dream World wasn't "dreamy" enough (where are the talking fish?). I think they miss the point that the crews goal was to create a dream world that looked like the real world to fool the mark into thinking he isn't dreaming.

My biggest gripe about that movie was the chase scene featuring a Hyundai.

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Mon Jul-19-10 09:24 AM

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228. "but haven't you seen the Sonata commercial?"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          


>My biggest gripe about that movie was the chase scene
>featuring a Hyundai.

one of the guys is embarrassed he bought a Benz over the Sonata. A. BENZ. obviously, Nolan took note.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 09:36 AM

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230. "RE: No more exposition than the Matrix no?"
In response to Reply # 226


          

>or lack of character development for that matter. I don't
>know what heist movie has great character development (Ocean
>11 doesn't have it but I don't think anyone complains about
>it).

I agree with you there. Exposition was needed and character development isn't a hallmark of heist films. Ocean's 11, however, did ground the emotional angle of the film better than Inception. Imagine if Danny never spoke with Tess or the only times we saw her, she was trying to murk his friends or ruin his plot - the emotional core of the film wouldn't have worked.


>I think the Big Critic criticism that is the most off-base is
>the criticism that the Dream World wasn't "dreamy" enough
>(where are the talking fish?). I think they miss the point
>that the crews goal was to create a dream world that looked
>like the real world to fool the mark into thinking he isn't
>dreaming.

The only issue here is that everyone knew that the last heist was a dream so they could have gotten away with more than just a very straightforward bum rush of the snow compound.

----
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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:18 AM

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245. "thing is, we'd be watching a 4 hour movie or lack of explanation of..."
In response to Reply # 230
Mon Jul-19-10 10:21 AM by FortifiedLive

  

          

the dream world concept if there was any more character development. even worse, if Nolan somehow packed in character development in a 3-hour time frame, people would complain it was too long and unnecessary for it since Cobbs really has no emotional attachment to any of the characters besides Mal and his kids.

while the ending is open for interpretation, i think it's insisted that this is all still a dream, and that all these characters are made up in his scheme to perform Inception on himself. remember that the idea of Inception must only be developed by the target himself. Inception is the only way he'll relieve himself from the guilt of Mal's death, thus the creation of Arthur, Saito, etc. to help him do so.

i think of it like this: it's chess, not Dungeons & Dragons lol. we are directed to care mostly about the king (Cobbs) while the rest are just pieces in his game. Ariadne's totem is a bishop, which coincidentally (?) is known as "the shooter". Cobbs created her for the sole purpose to kill the queen (Mal), which is why he allowed her to find out his darkest secrets for her to convince him to take the shot. Saito is merely the piece needed to complete the checkmate.

_______________________________________

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 12:40 PM

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257. "I don't think it would be that hard. "
In response to Reply # 245


          

Personally, I thought the opening scene with Saito wasn't needed. Replace that with a cryptic version of Leo post-Mal's suicide or something could have at least shown some connection to a) the real world and b) his family.

Also, how does inception on himself work? Wouldn't he still remember that he planted the idea? It's not like when people come out of inception, they don't remember the job they went in there to accomplish (although that would be a pretty cool version of the story; a better version of Paycheck).

But I do agree with you that for what Nolan wanted to do, the exposition was completely necessary and character development could fall by the wayside. I still would have preferred more interesting characters and a better core connection to Mal and the family.

----
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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:17 PM

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265. "RE: I don't think it would be that hard. "
In response to Reply # 257


  

          


>Also, how does inception on himself work? Wouldn't he still
>remember that he planted the idea? It's not like when people
>come out of inception, they don't remember the job they went
>in there to accomplish (although that would be a pretty cool
>version of the story; a better version of Paycheck).

well all the people in the dream are created by his subconscious, right? he stated so and that the dreamer has no control over them. so while his subconscious is going through this elaborate plan to free him of his guilt, he's actually unaware of it. i'm probably just talking outta my ass here. i really don't know what i'm talking about lol.

>But I do agree with you that for what Nolan wanted to do, the
>exposition was completely necessary and character development
>could fall by the wayside. I still would have preferred more
>interesting characters and a better core connection to Mal and
>the family.

while i was satisfied, i do agree with you.

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:33 AM

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248. "I will also add that I've always found Nolan's films to be a bit cold"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and distant emotionally

So, there's that

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jigga
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Mon Jul-19-10 01:46 PM

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267. "The emotion comes from the obsession so it can be hard to relate to"
In response to Reply # 248


  

          

unless you've been in their (main character's) shoes or similar situations & circumstances.

The Cobb in Noirlan's first film Following is similar to the Cobb we see in Inception. Consumed by an idea and willing to go through hell & high water (almost literally in Inception) to fulfill their desire.

The same is true for Lenny in Memento. Obsessed with an idea on how his world works to where the end justifies the means no matter what. In the case of Inception & Memento, I saw the emotional loss so significant that both endings still don't result in ultimate satisfaction. There's a certain amount of ambiguity at the end but I see both guys trapped in these worlds that they created for themselves as a last ditch effort in finally facing the facts. They just can't do it tho so they're stuck.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 04:38 PM

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283. "I find him less about obsession and more about trying to bury guilt."
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

Memento- he makes the choice to forget.
Insomnia- he can't successfully bury it.
Batmans- Bruce quite literally masks himself.
Inception- he literally buries that which makes him feel guilt.

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 04:35 PM

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282. "That's very true. And it makes me wonder..."
In response to Reply # 248


  

          

...is this a particular aesthetic choice? Would he describe himself as cold?

I find The Prestige to be his warmest, and it's less because of him and more because Hugh Jackman is one of the "warmest" actors working today.

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Tue Jul-20-10 06:58 AM

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297. "Nolan style isn't cold, his style is socially awkward"
In response to Reply # 282


  

          

like, at least with his last 2 movies, people in real life don't really talk nor interact the way his characters do.

you can be cold and still know how to hold a conversation.

his writing-style reeks of smugness

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-20-10 07:51 AM

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298. "His last 2 movies were a comic book movie and a sci-fi piece"
In response to Reply # 297


  

          

lol @ you talking about "how people in real life talk" in those movies

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Tue Jul-20-10 07:57 AM

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300. "lol @ your Nolan-like smugness. "
In response to Reply # 298


  

          

you know what i'm talking about, smartass

conversations, not exposition furthering the plot with each word in the dialogue.



  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-20-10 08:05 AM

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301. "lol @ you trying to turn this into another tired-ass edition of"
In response to Reply # 300


  

          

"The Film Snobs" vs. "The Real People"

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Tue Jul-20-10 08:07 AM

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302. "lol @ you avoiding the issue, like Nolan avoiding storytelling"
In response to Reply # 301


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
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Tue Jul-20-10 08:18 AM

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303. "lol @ you saying that this is "avoiding the issue""
In response to Reply # 302


  

          

What I'm actually doing is calling you on your lame "snobs vs. slobs" bullshit that colors about 95% of your film-related posts. It's a rote cliche that needs to be retired.

Now, back to the subject at hand, comic book movies and sci-fi movies sometimes have rules that have to be set up in order for the characters to inhabit the world of the story. The first hour of Inception is filled with this kind of information, and while I found it annoying I honestly don't see another way he could have wrote it. Hell, even the best sitcoms have a tough time writing exposition that doesn't sound like exposition.

But hey, if you have the answer to this problem besides "be around more real people!," then please enlighten the rest of the class, and also try to do so without leaning on the "Nolan is smug and so is Zoo too and also the critics!" crutch.

Thanks.

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:46 AM

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318. "what?"
In response to Reply # 303
Tue Jul-20-10 11:46 AM by jambone

  

          

>What I'm actually doing is calling you on your lame "snobs
>vs. slobs" bullshit that colors about 95% of your film-related
>posts. It's a rote cliche that needs to be retired.
>

huh?


>Now, back to the subject at hand, comic book movies and sci-fi
>movies sometimes have rules that have to be set up in order
>for the characters to inhabit the world of the story. The
>first hour of Inception is filled with this kind of
>information, and while I found it annoying I honestly don't
>see another way he could have wrote it. Hell, even the best
>sitcoms have a tough time writing exposition that doesn't
>sound like exposition.

only rule is to be entertaining and tell the story with your writing.

Nolan failed in both categories.

and you are write, there was no way for Nolan to avoid this because he had no story to begin with. The exposition (in addition to the beautiful set locations) mask the fact he couldn't simply tell a story and let his great list of actors do what they do well...act instead of recite.

good writing doesn't necessarily mean no exposition. its a challenge to incorporate it as a writer, but the good writers are able to get it done, tackle that challenge head on, without losing anything. hacks cannot and just say fuck it. Its lazy. Nolan said fuck it for Inception. You hang onto every word said in the movie, not because of suspense or the drama, you onto to every word because you literally have to hand onto every word said by the characters.

>
>But hey, if you have the answer to this problem besides "be
>around more real people!," then please enlighten the rest of
>the class, and also try to do so without leaning on the "Nolan
>is smug and so is Zoo too and also the critics!" crutch.
>
>Thanks.
>

huh?


  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Jul-21-10 12:15 AM

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357. "CHRIS NOLAN HIMSELF: "I needed to raise the emotional stakes.""
In response to Reply # 248


          

"I originally wrote it as a heist movie, and heist movies traditionally are very deliberately superficial in emotional terms," Nolan said. "They're frivolous and glamorous, and there's a sort of gloss and fun to it. I originally tried to write it that way, but when I came back to it I realized that -- to me -- that didn't work for a film that relies so heavily on the idea of the interior state, the idea of dream and memory. I realized I needed to raise the emotional stakes. What we found in working on 'Batman' is that it's the emotionalism that best connects the audience with the material. The character issues, those are the things that pull the audience through it and amplify the experience no matter how strange things get."

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/04/entertainment/la-ca-inception4-2010apr04/3

Nolan agrees with Zoo on the emotions of heist films but agrees with Me and Frank on the need for emotional connect. So even if it is as emotional as most heist films, Nolan still missed what he was aiming for.

----
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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Jul-29-10 02:34 PM

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504. "if the movies you listed before are the measuring stick"
In response to Reply # 357


          

>Nolan agrees with Zoo on the emotions of heist films but
>agrees with Me and Frank on the need for emotional connect. So
>even if it is as emotional as most heist films, Nolan still
>missed what he was aiming for.

then no he didn't.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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490. "incidentally that's what people often criticized Kubrick for"
In response to Reply # 248
Tue Jul-27-10 01:01 AM by 40thStreetBlack

          

I guess Rambo II is better than Full Metal Jacket because the emotional stakes of Rambo's female Vietnamese ally/ tragic love interest provides for a more accessible emotional manipula... er, 'investment' in the story.

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:46 AM

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251. "hold up, this was a heist movie?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i thought the heist was merely a projection?

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Jul-20-10 05:50 AM

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294. "by the end i'd totally forgotten what was going on."
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

i didn't remember what, if anything, they were trying to steal and why and for whom. and i didn't know if they were successful.

of course, they weren't really trying to steal anything.

fuck you.

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Tue Jul-20-10 06:45 AM

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295. "i thought it was just me...hahaha"
In response to Reply # 294


  

          

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 01:10 PM

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263. "For anyone who has had multiple viewings....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Anything you were focusing on specifically?

Any interesting new details that you caught?

I am going to see it again a 2nd time either Tuesday or Wednesday.....so I was just wondering if there was anything I should try to focus on during specific scenes that someone else may have noticed.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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jigga
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Mon Jul-19-10 02:28 PM

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271. "2nd viewing convinced me Cobb planted the totem & it's significance"
In response to Reply # 263


  

          

And that was the initial Inception. And therefore it might not matter whether or not it wobbled or stopped spinning at the end. Noirlan's loves to fuck with us & I think he's doing so two-fold with the totem. Just like he did with the heist.

>Anything you were focusing on specifically?

The 1st time I saw it I got lost on the levels. So I paid more attention to that part but still caught confused once they went from the 3rd level to limbo & what all that entailed.

>Any interesting new details that you caught?

Cobb planting the totem

>I am going to see it again a 2nd time either Tuesday or
>Wednesday.....so I was just wondering if there was anything I
>should try to focus on during specific scenes that someone
>else may have noticed.

I would pay careful attention to any scene involving the totem. Especially when it's being locked away & when it appears to me as if Cobb was the one that first planted it there.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jul-19-10 04:10 PM

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276. "Dileep Rao Answers All Your Questions About Inception"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not really. http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/07/inceptions_dileep_rao_answers.html


**********

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Mon Jul-19-10 05:53 PM

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284. "dude has no ears.....so it's impossible for him to kick out!"
In response to Reply # 276
Mon Jul-19-10 05:54 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

That reporter exists only in Yusuf's dream!!!!

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 06:27 PM

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285. "all other directors are now competing for second place right now."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Inception is a fucking masterpiece.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jul-19-10 10:00 PM

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288. "^^^ this is the type of comment I don't understand, lol"
In response to Reply # 285
Mon Jul-19-10 10:02 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

I mean, dude's films are admittedly cold. They're very entertaining and very smart. But he hasn't shown himself to be on an all-time great level. He's shown himself to be one of the best today-- but when filmmakers like Spielberg and Scorsese still have a more varied body of work (even with only their recent films), I can't put Nolan on their level yet.

And as far as "cold" filmmakers go, the Coen Brothers still definitely have the lead over Nolan.

Why not just be content saying he's one of the best around? Everyone is so anxious after the Batmans to give dude the crown when he's more like an easy Top 10.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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jigga
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Tue Jul-20-10 01:10 AM

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290. "You can certainly understand personal preferences tho right?"
In response to Reply # 288


  

          

>I mean, dude's films are admittedly cold. They're very
>entertaining and very smart. But he hasn't shown himself to be
>on an all-time great level. He's shown himself to be one of
>the best today-- but when filmmakers like Spielberg and
>Scorsese still have a more varied body of work (even with only
>their recent films), I can't put Nolan on their level yet.

Valid claim. Noirlan stays in his lane but he's also shown tremendous growth since the Doodlebug short:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WhKt_CkXD0

& Following which is still fantastic for such a low budget debut & just got re-released by IFC

http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/07/19/new-re-release-trailer-for-chris-nolans-debut-film-following/

>And as far as "cold" filmmakers go, the Coen Brothers still
>definitely have the lead over Nolan.

They're great but http://splicd.com/JfTrdO7BqV0/0/7

They're cold but they also force a lot of humor in & at times it's so dark that it also takes away from the emotional attachment to the characters. Nolan's never made anything as shitty as Spielberg's Kingdom of the Crystal Dull. And Marty loves coke & graphic violence a little too much for my tastes.

>Why not just be content saying he's one of the best around?
>Everyone is so anxious after the Batmans to give dude the
>crown when he's more like an easy Top 10.

I crowned him my favorite director immediately after Memento it hasn't changed since then.

Be grown & to each his/her own.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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323. "Well, of course. But saying he's far in the lead..."
In response to Reply # 290


  

          

...well, in my personal preference, that's silly.

He's got the genre flick down... but I personally would like to see him do another Insomnia-style character-driven piece. While the pacing was really slow in that film, I thought that showed some good maturity from Memento. All of the "all-time great" film directors have these moments.

He has a great aesthetic and skill as a storyteller and intelligence, so it's all nitpicky. But to call Inception a masterpiece and to say every other director is now behind him because of this film is, in my personal preference, something I simply don't understand.

It's not like he just came out with Schindler's List or Goodfellas or No Country For Old Men. It was an entertaining sci-fi jam.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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dunk
Member since Aug 05th 2006
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Tue Jul-20-10 02:38 PM

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325. "Frank understands"
In response to Reply # 290
Tue Jul-20-10 02:39 PM by dunk

  

          

What Frank doesn't like is someone talking about crowning a director as the best when his body of work, although solid and consistent, isn't as diverse or great as other directors, even if you limit it to his contemporaries. Technically Nolan's films have been greater and greater as his budgets rose. His films makes you concentrate and think throughout to catch all the details, even as he has become more of an action film director. Few directors today have as consistent a run of good to great films as he does (Momento, Insomnia, Prestige, BB, DK). He's in the top of directors TODAY in my opinion, along with PTA, Fincher and Arrenofsky but they all, in my opinion, trump Nolan. You could even argue that Wes Anderson (Bottle Rocket, Rushmore, Tenenbaums, Darjeeling, Fantastic Mr. Fox) is even more consistent than Nolan if you want to compare directors who consistent create films with single motif (Nolan - Obsessive Man/ Wes - Dysfunctional Family).

People want to champion Nolan because, in most recent memory, he has released a several good to great films in the past decade and he rightfully deserves praise. But, you always have to note that unlike PTA, Arrenosky or Anderson, he doesn't pen all his films. His best ones (Momento, Prestige, DK) were co-written with his brother and imo, his weakest script, Inception, was done on his own. Considering tone Nolan doesn't vary much at all. The scores since Prestige has been damn near identical which may be nitpicking but it bugs me. But don't get me wrong, Nolan is a great director, just not the best today.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 03:54 PM

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330. "^^^ he's absolutely right"
In response to Reply # 325


  

          

I wouldn't put Anderson over him, and perhaps not Aronofsky either. I would say he's right alongside someone like Fincher, who makes cold films himself really. But this reasoning is definitely my reasoning.

>What Frank doesn't like is someone talking about crowning a
>director as the best when his body of work, although solid and
>consistent, isn't as diverse or great as other directors, even
>if you limit it to his contemporaries. Technically Nolan's
>films have been greater and greater as his budgets rose. His
>films makes you concentrate and think throughout to catch all
>the details, even as he has become more of an action film
>director. Few directors today have as consistent a run of good
>to great films as he does (Momento, Insomnia, Prestige, BB,
>DK). He's in the top of directors TODAY in my opinion, along
>with PTA, Fincher and Arrenofsky but they all, in my opinion,
>trump Nolan. You could even argue that Wes Anderson (Bottle
>Rocket, Rushmore, Tenenbaums, Darjeeling, Fantastic Mr. Fox)
>is even more consistent than Nolan if you want to compare
>directors who consistent create films with single motif (Nolan
>- Obsessive Man/ Wes - Dysfunctional Family).
>
>People want to champion Nolan because, in most recent memory,
>he has released a several good to great films in the past
>decade and he rightfully deserves praise. But, you always have
>to note that unlike PTA, Arrenosky or Anderson, he doesn't
>pen all his films. His best ones (Momento, Prestige, DK) were
>co-written with his brother and imo, his weakest script,
>Inception, was done on his own. Considering tone Nolan doesn't
>vary much at all. The scores since Prestige has been damn
>near identical which may be nitpicking but it bugs me. But
>don't get me wrong, Nolan is a great director, just not the
>best today.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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jigga
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Tue Jul-20-10 05:24 PM

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335. "PTA, Finch, D.A. & Wes all have some flat out duds on their resume"
In response to Reply # 325


  

          

>What Frank doesn't like is someone talking about crowning a
>director as the best when his body of work, although solid and
>consistent, isn't as diverse or great as other directors, even
>if you limit it to his contemporaries.

Certainly not as diverse, but he>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Technically Nolan's
>films have been greater and greater as his budgets rose. His
>films makes you concentrate and think throughout to catch all
>the details, even as he has become more of an action film
>director. Few directors today have as consistent a run of good
>to great films as he does (Momento, Insomnia, Prestige, BB,
>DK). He's in the top of directors TODAY in my opinion, along
>with PTA, Fincher and Arrenofsky but they all, in my opinion,
>trump Nolan. You could even argue that Wes Anderson (Bottle
>Rocket, Rushmore, Tenenbaums, Darjeeling, Fantastic Mr. Fox)
>is even more consistent than Nolan if you want to compare
>directors who consistent create films with single motif (Nolan
>- Obsessive Man/ Wes - Dysfunctional Family).

You could but I can't. Haven't seen Darjeeling & Fox.

>People want to champion Nolan because, in most recent memory,
>he has released a several good to great films in the past
>decade and he rightfully deserves praise. But, you always have
>to note that unlike PTA, Arrenosky or Anderson, he doesn't
>pen all his films. His best ones (Momento, Prestige, DK) were
>co-written with his brother

I'm not taking anything away from him for working with his brother. Sorry.

and imo, his weakest script,
>Inception, was done on his own. Considering tone Nolan doesn't
>vary much at all. The scores since Prestige has been damn
>near identical which may be nitpicking but it bugs me. But
>don't get me wrong, Nolan is a great director, just not the
>best today.

Fair enough

As far as the other directors you mentioned, for me it goes like this:

PTA - Hard Eight really wasn't all that great but Punch-Drunk Love was terrible. I liked the score, the acting & the idea behind these two loveable losers hookin up but it just fell flat. Recently read a post on here with someone praising PSH's performance in that film & I just had to laugh it off because it was so ridiculous.

Finch - Flawless besides Alien 3. Even Panic Room gets a pass on plenty of style points. But Alien 3 was shitty.

D.A. - I've met the man & talked to him about the Robocop reboot. I hope he does it. I also hope it's better than The Fountain. While it had some fantastic ideas, effects & music...it just never came together as a whole. I'm not sure Pi ever really did either & it's behind both Following & Primer in terms of low budget debuts.

Wes - Well we share the same 1st name but his 1st movie was lame. Rushmore was excellent but he regressed with The Royal T's & hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations since then. Life Aquatic was only watchable for Bill & I didn't even bother with the one after that. I do wanna check out the Fox tho.

Meanwhile Nolan's track record is perfect. No duds on his list. And many will argue that now at least 2 or 3 could be classic material. Obviously I'm a big fan but still only willing to go that far for Memento myself.

If he can wrap up the Batman trilogy in a big way then this type of talk will only increase amongst the masses. If he brings The Prisoner to the big screen (ripe material) then many will say it's more of the same. I hope he does it tho. I hope he does a Bond film too while Daniel Craig still owns the role. Then after that I'd like to see him increase his range a bit. Just to see how his style adapts to other genres.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Jul-20-10 05:55 PM

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336. "RE: PTA, Finch, D.A. & Wes all have some flat out duds on their resume"
In response to Reply # 335


  

          


>Certainly not as diverse, but he>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't know if I'd say >>>>>>>>>>>, but he's solidly better than most of them.


>You could but I can't. Haven't seen Darjeeling & Fox.

Haven't seen Darjeerling, but "Fox" is really. Might even be my favorite film that dropped last year.

>I'm not taking anything away from him for working with his
>brother. Sorry.

Side note: Wes Anderson also doesn't write any of his screenplays by himself either. Owen Wilson also gets credit on his first three, Jason Swartzman and Roman Coppalla co-wrote Darjeerling, and someone else co-wroe "Life Aquatic."

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 06:00 PM

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337. "While they have a dud or two..."
In response to Reply # 335


  

          

(and the word "dud" is being used loosely, and I disagree about some of your dud choices)

... their best films are better than Nolan's best imo. I wouldn't put Aronofsky or Anderson above him, but there's no doubt in my mind that PTA has at least two films better than Nolan's best, and Fincher has at least one better than Nolan's best. The Coens have a number better than Nolan's best, as do Spielberg and Scorsese, hence my inclusion of them, even after a flop or two.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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dunk
Member since Aug 05th 2006
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Thu Jul-22-10 11:34 AM

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423. "RE: PTA, Finch, D.A. & Wes all have some flat out duds on their resume"
In response to Reply # 335


  

          

>>What Frank doesn't like is someone talking about crowning a
>>director as the best when his body of work, although solid
>and
>>consistent, isn't as diverse or great as other directors,
>even
>>if you limit it to his contemporaries.
>
>Certainly not as diverse, but he>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I honestly don't see Nolan as THAT great, and beyond these other directors. PTA & Fincher's line of work imo is just as strong, with infinitely better scripts, greater depth to his characters,and just as good cinematography as Nolan with his DP.

>PTA - Hard Eight really wasn't all that great but Punch-Drunk
>Love was terrible. I liked the score, the acting & the idea
>behind these two loveable losers hookin up but it just fell
>flat. Recently read a post on here with someone praising PSH's
>performance in that film & I just had to laugh it off because
>it was so ridiculous.

I understand that Punch-Drunk Love is a love/hate it movie. The sorta off beat pacing of the film worked for me. PSH performance worked for me since it just fit the whole tone of the film that mirrored Sandler's bi-polarity, sad and blue at one moment and manic/violent the next.

>Finch - Flawless besides Alien 3. Even Panic Room gets a pass
>on plenty of style points. But Alien 3 was shitty.

Yeah, A3 is wack but is commonly overlooked since that was mainly to get his foot firmly in the door of the industry.

>D.A. - I've met the man & talked to him about the Robocop
>reboot. I hope he does it. I also hope it's better than The
>Fountain. While it had some fantastic ideas, effects &
>music...it just never came together as a whole. I'm not sure
>Pi ever really did either & it's behind both Following &
>Primer in terms of low budget debuts.

I enjoyed The Fountain, although it ideas didn't meld together they way DA imagined it, esp after the project was rebooted with a significantly smaller budget. It weakened on repeated visits but I still consider it a good film.

>Wes - Well we share the same 1st name but his 1st movie was
>lame. Rushmore was excellent but he regressed with The Royal
>T's & hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations since then.
>Life Aquatic was only watchable for Bill & I didn't even
>bother with the one after that. I do wanna check out the Fox
>tho.

I guess I'm in the minority cause I really liked everything he's put out. The Life Aquatic, flawed in many ways, is still a great movie to me. I think Darjeeling Limited is underrated and the OWen, Schwatzman and Brody have great comedic chemistry. Fantastic Mr. Fox is probably one of the best films of last year. You should really check it out since it's probably Wes' best film since Rushmore.

>Meanwhile Nolan's track record is perfect. No duds on his
>list. And many will argue that now at least 2 or 3 could be
>classic material. Obviously I'm a big fan but still only
>willing to go that far for Memento myself.

His only considerable classic imo is Momento. Everyone pretty much agrees the film is one of the best. The batman films are great but I don't even think they are the best of their respective years and the fan boy held has boosted them to a higher respect than they deserve because the epic air the films gives off with it's size and length. Inception is #3 all time on IMDb (obviosuly imdb scores aren't reliable) but that just shows how much hype has influenced the ratings. Toy Story 3 is still the best film of the year imo but i digress.

>If he can wrap up the Batman trilogy in a big way then this
>type of talk will only increase amongst the masses. If he
>brings The Prisoner to the big screen (ripe material) then
>many will say it's more of the same. I hope he does it tho. I
>hope he does a Bond film too while Daniel Craig still owns the
>role. Then after that I'd like to see him increase his range a
>bit. Just to see how his style adapts to other genres.

If he's round of these next two films with just as good or better results that his previous films then yeah, I'd have to give him the crown for contemporary directors.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Jul-19-10 11:00 PM

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289. "Nolan on the dream logic:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

At the screening with the Q&A I went to, one thing that stood out was that he doesn't really do research on his films. He tried with Memento, but found that research really only confirms what you already know, and if you find something that contradicts it - you throw it away and do it like you want to anyway (lol). So he took the elements of dreams that seem to be universal and worked out the logic that way.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Tue Jul-20-10 06:52 AM

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296. "universal to him, of course."
In response to Reply # 289


  

          

>At the screening with the Q&A I went to, one thing that stood
>out was that he doesn't really do research on his films. He
>tried with Memento, but found that research really only
>confirms what you already know, and if you find something that
>contradicts it - you throw it away and do it like you want to
>anyway (lol). So he took the elements of dreams that seem to
>be universal and worked out the logic that way.

  

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xangeluvr
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Tue Jul-20-10 05:36 AM

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292. "in-freakin-credible"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

two and a half hours and i was totally engaged the whole way. story, music, visuals, acting, pacing, all very well done.

nolan i killin' everybody right now.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 08:35 AM

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304. "you can tell that nolan read...."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-20-10 08:37 AM by Crash Bandacoot

          

the book 'godel escher bach' by hofstadter -- it may be the greatest book that i've ever read.

had some references from the graphic artist m.c. escher (relatively bending a world "on top" of another) and tons of self-reference (loops and levels/pushing and popping "realities") from the mathematician godel. jolts triggered by "musical" cues - bach.

the problem i have with this film is that words and images in the book seem more real and relative to the reader/viewer than the film because, in the end, everything points back to you and YOUR views and reality. not someone elses made up world that has no real context or meaning to you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 03:56 PM

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331. "interesting"
In response to Reply # 304


  

          

thanks for the reference
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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DawgEatah
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Tue Jul-20-10 09:26 AM

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305. "Dope."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          




http://i46.tinypic.com/2zow18o.jpg
http://flavors.me/balisong
http://www.myspace.com/insightclopediabrown
http://www.myspace.com/dumhi
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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Jul-20-10 10:35 AM

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309. "Was the concept of the "Architect" necessary? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

or did it needlessly complicate things? What did the concept of the Architect add to the story? It seemed like it could work perfectly fine with the concept that they entered peoples dreams or tricked people into entering their dreams.

**********

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:09 AM

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311. "They needed a reason to include Ellen Page's character"
In response to Reply # 309


          

They basically needed an outsider to come in, see through Leo's shit, and be able to force him into the facing his issues. I agree that the architect wasn't really needed (and how can someone build someone else's dream?) but they needed a certain amount of people to make the story work and that seemed like a good reason to give for her needing to be there.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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jigga
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:29 AM

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314. "They needed someone to control the dream environment since"
In response to Reply # 311


  

          

Leo couldn't anymore with the threat of Mal

(and
>how can someone build someone else's dream?)

Well we can't really share dreams either but that & building in someone else's dream is why this is a sci-fi flick. But remember they did show her building in Leo's dream at the start. And lucid dreaming which is very real, does allow us to manufacture a dream while it's happening. It happens to me all the time & it's one of the main reasons I was so interested in this aspect of the movie when Nolan first talked about it.

  

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SoulHonky
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:41 AM

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317. "He couldn't anymore in any dream."
In response to Reply # 314
Tue Jul-20-10 11:56 AM by SoulHonky

          

Even when he wasn't the architect, Mal and the train were showing up so it's not like having Page be the architect changed anything. She couldn't show up ahead of him but once he got to the endpoint, she could fuck shit up for him and his team.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
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Tue Jul-20-10 10:05 PM

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347. "but that's not nearly the same as fucking shit up from the jump"
In response to Reply # 317


  

          

>Even when he wasn't the architect, Mal and the train were
>showing up so it's not like having Page be the architect
>changed anything. She couldn't show up ahead of him but once
>he got to the endpoint, she could fuck shit up for him and his
>team.

You actually have a chance of containing Mal if she shows up at the end....and Leo had that chance in the snow dream, but he couldn't pull the trigger right away.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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jigga
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:16 AM

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312. "Let's say there was no "Architect" when they entered Yusuf's dream. "
In response to Reply # 309


  

          

What did the concept
>of the Architect add to the story? It seemed like it could
>work perfectly fine with the concept that they entered peoples
>dreams or tricked people into entering their dreams.
>
>**********


Remember when they asked him who would want to be stuck in a dream that long & he said it depends on the dream with a smirk?

Well w/o an architect, the rain we saw in his dream probably would've been him making it rain down on a bunch of strippers. The rest of the crew would have no control of the surroundings. They needed a place to plant a safe since that's where the dreamer stores their secret. Sure there might already be a safe in Yusef's strip joint. But it's probably only filled with cash, hash, & ass.

  

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SoulHonky
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:38 AM

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316. "Everyone could do that though"
In response to Reply # 312


          

Dileep Rao joked that it was raining because his character had to pee so he still had control of the dream. Everyone did.

It's not like Ellen Page had some special power. Anyone could have been able to shape the dream. Levitt's character built his own environment when he made the paradox staircase. Hell, the core of the film is how Leo keeps bringing his own issues into other people's dreams so it wasn't like she had some preventative powers that kept only her architecture in place. Yes, she was probably better than everyone at building the mazes but it's not like the maze element ever played out in the film. Yusuf was getting chased down open highway, the room in the hotel seemed to get sniffed out quickly, and Eams basically negated her work in his dream by building the air duct straight to the safe. And the Leo element of "Don't let me know" didn't really make sense because once Leo got to the end, Mal could just show up. Or a train.

I get the reason they gave for her being there but it's one of the elements that seems better off if you don't think about it too much.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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321. "I get that they needed an outsider"
In response to Reply # 316


  

          

definitely needed someone new for exposition purposes but it seems it their could have been a much simpler reason to introduce a new character.

I am just thinking that for an already complicated idea, the notion of an architect needlessly complicated the film without really adding anything (unless I was missing something).

BTW, did anyone ever get was Ellen Page studying architecture or something related to dreams in school?

**********

  

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SoulHonky
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322. "It sets up that they can control the dream"
In response to Reply # 321
Tue Jul-20-10 01:02 PM by SoulHonky

          

It needs to be shown that they can set up the dream world of the dreamer. And by just saying, "We have an architect", they can gloss over that fact rather than actually having to give an in depth explanation of how they control another person's dream and create the mazes in which the dreamers exists and all that.

It is complicated but what it helps them get past is even more complicated (and, as you said, it gives Leo someone to explain the basics on inception to so the audience can catch up)

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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FortifiedLive
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Tue Jul-20-10 02:52 PM

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326. "they only had the power to alter the environment when in the dream."
In response to Reply # 316
Tue Jul-20-10 03:06 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

anything more and the subconscious would be alerted. my understanding was that the environment was designed and sort of uploaded into the contraption that they were hooked up to. and it was also my understanding that the bridge they used for the first kick was also part of the architect's plan/maze. i believe everyone was informed of the routes to be taken, but the details of the environment were known only by the architect, such as the duct route in the snow fortress. i believe that the dream world would be too vast if the target was not contained within the maze.

*it's also why she wasn't the dreamer for any of the levels. she knew the environment inside and out.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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SoulHonky
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Tue Jul-20-10 06:46 PM

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341. "Ah. That makes sense. Thanks."
In response to Reply # 326


          

"my understanding was that the environment was designed and sort of uploaded into the contraption that they were hooked up to. and it was also my understanding that the bridge they used for the first kick was also part of the architect's plan/maze. i believe everyone was informed of the routes to be taken, but the details of the environment were known only by the architect, such as the duct route in the snow fortress."

I never thought about the preloading thing. And it makes sense that she told everyone else about the routes except Leo so Mal couldn't get ahead of him (although she could still show up when he arrived).

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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xangeluvr
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352. "i think you're off or misunderstood"
In response to Reply # 316
Tue Jul-20-10 11:30 PM by xangeluvr

  

          

>It's not like Ellen Page had some special power. Anyone could
>have been able to shape the dream. Levitt's character built
>his own environment when he made the paradox staircase. Hell,
>the core of the film is how Leo keeps bringing his own issues
>into other people's dreams so it wasn't like she had some
>preventative powers that kept only her architecture in place.
>Yes, she was probably better than everyone at building the
>mazes but it's not like the maze element ever played out in
>the film. Yusuf was getting chased down open highway, the room
>in the hotel seemed to get sniffed out quickly, and Eams
>basically negated her work in his dream by building the air
>duct straight to the safe. And the Leo element of "Don't let
>me know" didn't really make sense because once Leo got to the
>end, Mal could just show up. Or a train.

here's my take. i think ellen's character included the paradox staircase in her design, she explained the design to all the team members (remember how leo kept telling her to teach it to them?) which is why in the dream levitt's character knew to take advantage of it. also, i don't believe eams added the airduct on the fly, how would ellen's character know that when leo asked? i think what she meant was that he added that to her existing designs while she was constructing them in reality. remember all those models??

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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SoulHonky
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Tue Jul-20-10 11:36 PM

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355. "Yeah, I didn't get the models/pre-planning of the dream."
In response to Reply # 352


          

Now I got it. Makes more sense why they need one and why Leo couldn't be it.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Frank Longo
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Tue Jul-20-10 02:11 PM

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324. "They needed someone to ask questions for Leo to answer, lol."
In response to Reply # 309


  

          

Otherwise, is he just gonna explain all of these concepts to the characters that already know them? How are we as audience members going to figure out what's happening if he has no one to explain them to?

I mean, you could dive into why she's needed as far as the story goes, blah blah blah, but THIS is the real reason why she's there-- to ask the questions that the audience is asking.

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LA2Philly
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Tue Jul-20-10 03:37 PM

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328. "exactly, Nolan needed a 'natural' way to explain all the rules"
In response to Reply # 324


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Tue Jul-20-10 03:04 PM

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327. "well, they needed to know what they were getting into."
In response to Reply # 309


  

          

they had the entire thing planned out according to her plans, so yes, the architect's job (a prerendered environment) was necessary.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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poetx
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Tue Jul-20-10 07:58 PM

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343. "saito knew the 1st dream w/in a dream was fucked up b/c of the carpet. "
In response to Reply # 309


  

          

that's why he kirked out on the previous architect. dude didn't make it real enough.

apparently, dreamweaver is an artform, and while people w/o skills might be able to make up *some* shit, they either wouldn't be detail oriented or disciplined enough to create a dreamscape capable of fooling someone else's subconscious.

likewise, if you were so consumed w/ getting all the scenery and the mazes and all that shit right, you wouldn't have too too much brainpower left to attend to the details of trying to vic somebody in they sleep.

so it was very much a rare, necessary, and complementary skill to what they were doing.

anybody could create any old dream. but for it to be believable, it had to be from an architect.

annnnd, it was a hella convenient expository plot device, no doubt. but he justified it well in the movie, imo.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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LA2Philly
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Tue Jul-20-10 10:16 PM

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348. "to add onto that skill of being a 'dream architect'"
In response to Reply # 343
Tue Jul-20-10 10:21 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

When JLG introduces Ariadne to the penrose staircase, he says that you must utilize illusions to create the boundaries of the dream....so the dreamer doesn't know they are fake. That is another key skill, utilizing those illusions to create the artificial borders of the dream, basically tricking the sub-conscious. Further, the architecture of the dream must not only be convincing, but complicated enough that it gives them ample time to hide/navigate away from from sub-conscious threats if need be.

Further, in Leo and Ariadne's first convo(the one at the Parisian cafe), he explains that dreaming is a state in which you simultaneously create and perceive.....so it is the architect's job to get right in the middle of that. If you remember, he draws the diagram with the circular arrows pointing at each other and draws a line through the middle. So it is the architect's job to create the basic structure in which the dreamer will perceive his or her subconscious thoughts.....otherwise, who knows in what kind of world they would end up. Also, the architect is required because they must install certain features such as a safe or safe-house where the subconscious will naturally store secrets due to the perception of safety provided by those kinds of constructs.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jul-20-10 04:07 PM

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332. "A good blog entry on Inception's dream logic by Owen Gleiberman:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not that Gleiberman is always the greatest writer in the world, but this is a good reflection of what some people have been trying to articulate about the particulars of the logic in the film.

http://movie-critics.ew.com/2010/07/20/inception-why-i-didnt-get-it/

'Inception': Am I the only one who didn't get it?
by Owen Gleiberman

This particular blog post isn’t an analysis, or a description, so much as it is a confession: I found myself more or less entirely baffled by Inception. I tried, I really tried, to figure it out, but I just couldn’t get the hang of it — not really. For approximately two out of every three minutes the movie was unfolding on screen, my honest experience is that it was vague, obtuse, scattershot, puzzling, confounding – and, finally, maddening. There were moments, of course, when I was dazzled. How could you not be? Yet even then, I had the feeling that those moments would have provoked virtually the same reaction of “Oh, wow!” awe if I had seen them completely out of context. Take the scene in which the streets of downtown Paris literally fold, making the movie look like Godzilla recast as a physics experiment. Sure, my eyeballs just about popped out in delight. But what did the spatial-bending quality of this sequence have to do with the rest of the movie? Did its relevance, in terms of explaining the universe of dreams, ever truly pay off?

That’s the kind of question that nagged at me throughout Inception. Too often, I couldn’t connect the movie to itself; for most of the running time, the act of trying to put together what was happening made my head hurt. I’ve discovered that going back to read reviews of it, in the hopes that my fellow critics could shed light on what I missed, has only made my head hurt more. It’s not that they haven’t done a good job. It’s that simply hearing that damned plot described, over and over again, produces the same “What the f—?” I-get-it-but-I-don’t-really-get-it sensation that the movie did.

For let’s be clear: Inception is a reasonably easy movie to understand… in the abstract. I get that Leonardo DiCaprio’s Dom Cobb wants to enter the dreams of a corporate heir (Cillian Murphy) in order to implant an idea in his head that will help a rival company. I get that Dom’s wife (Marion Cotillard) gave into the dark side of her own dreams — easily the best element of the movie (it should have been played up more). And as often as not, I could sort of make out what “level” of dream the movie was supposed to be taking place on. But all of that, to me, isn’t really Inception; it’s the bare bones of Inception. And it’s the moment-to-moment substance of the movie, the experiential flesh and flow of it, that I couldn’t begin to fathom.

I think that where I kept getting lost, over and over and over again, was in the leaps from one dream level to the next. I never really understood how this worked. When you’re inside one dream level, what’s happening, at the same moment, in the dream level above it? Does its significance vanish? Has it ceased to exist? Since various people are occupying the same dream, who’s determining, at any given instant, what happens in that dream? Why does one person have more sway than the next? And why did everything, on all the dream levels, look like bits and pieces of the same action movie? What are the rules, and therefore the strategies? Frankly, it all seemed maddeningly arbitrary. It didn’t seem as if the psychology of the various levels of dreaming truly interlocked; it certainly didn’t interlock, to me, in ingenious or finely calibrated ways. In fact, I dare say that this is a dream movie without much psychology at all. So all the jabbering about the subconscious seemed to be just that: stray chatter that didn’t connect to anything. Ellen Page’s instantly famous line — “Wait, whose subconscious are we going into, exactly?” — appears to be there to elicit an intentional laugh. Yet the joke, of course, is that if she has questions about it, then surely her lack of clarity mirrors our own. The line comes off as Christopher Nolan’s way of neutralizing the film’s confusion without genuinely resolving it. I felt as if the real leaping between dream levels is what Nolan was doing, frantically, in the editing room.

It has become an article of faith that Inception is a movie you probably want to see, and maybe even need to see, twice. At the screening I attended, three critics I know were there for the second time, having seen it for the first time only the day before. In general, I’m religious about second viewings — to me, when a movie is good, that second time enriches and enlightens, deepens the pleasure. It’s like going back to eat a sublime dish you discovered at a restaurant. The second viewing is really all about savoring. But in my entire moviegoing life, I have never had the experience of encountering a movie like Inception that people felt compelled to see twice simply to figure out what was going on in it. Is the movie itself that rich, that special, that mysteriously subtle and exquisite in its logic? Or has the collective reverence for Christopher Nolan — a reverence that I share — made this a unique case? In Memento and The Prestige, Nolan proved a master brainteaser of a filmmaker, and so we spend much of Inception giving him the benefit of the doubt. Surely, we think, he must know what’s going on in this movie. And so, by implication, if we didn’t get it the first time, then surely the second time will clear everything up.

This is all, as you may have gathered, a rather frustrating position for a film critic to find himself in, because a big part of my job is to explain things — to find order even in disorder — but how can you clarify, and justify, your feelings in precise language when those feelings are haziness, confusion, befuddlement, and a vague sense of missed connections? In our day and age, a further question might be: How can you declare your confusion about a movie like Inception without inviting people to call you an idiot, a douche, a disgrace to film buffs everywhere? I expect (though without any iconoclastic eagerness, I assure you) to be insulted fairly venomously on the comments board of this post.

But let me answer those insults, in advance, by at least saying this: I think that “getting” Inception has, from the outset, been something of a parlor game. To admit that you’re not one of the enlightened is to invite disgrace. And, of course, the movie, in what is (to me) its very incomprehensibility, might almost have been made for the blogosphere. It’s a movie designed, in its very structure, to be analyzed forever. But that’s because, to me, it’s a cinematic videogame that keeps making up its rules as it goes along. And if you think it really does make sense, then I’m tempted to say: You’re dreaming.

So come on, fess up: Is there anyone else out there who simply didn’t get Inception? Who watched it, as I did, in a state of near-perilous confusion? Please, if you’re there, come out of the woodwork. If only so I can stop feeling like I’m the only dummy in the room.

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SoulHonky
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Tue Jul-20-10 06:44 PM

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340. "I'd say he answered his question right here."
In response to Reply # 332
Tue Jul-20-10 07:19 PM by SoulHonky

          

"In fact, I dare say that this is a dream movie without much psychology at all."

The more I think about the film, the more I realize that I'm probably better off not going that deep into it. Although he did seem to have issues with something I thought was obvious.

-- "I never really understood how this worked. When you’re inside one dream level, what’s happening, at the same moment, in the dream level above it? Does its significance vanish? Has it ceased to exist?"

The other dream is continuing but just as a much slower pace. And obviously the lower level effect the other, we saw that when the car started tumbling and it affected the hotel dream level. (And Saito was shot in every level) As for how they got into the dreams within the dream, they always had one of their contraptions with them and used that. How does the contraption work? Well, now you're getting into something that I think is probably best left alone. I don't need to know the science of that anymore than I need to know how The Force works.

Also, I'd say this movie doesn't come close to being as confusing as Mulholland Dr. which went a mile over my head and after reading up on what it meant and seeing it again, my opinion did a 180.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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nipsey
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Tue Jul-20-10 07:33 PM

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342. ""
In response to Reply # 332


  

          

Does anyone truly believe that a movie can explain the unconscious?"

This article could be seen as a response to Owen.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-20/inceptions-plot-twists-divide-audiences/full/

The War Over Inception
by Allen Barra

Is Christopher Nolan’s Inception a masterpiece, drivel, too confusing? Does the ending make sense? Critics are divided, and audiences are fighting. Many spoilers within!

Christopher Nolan’s Inception, a daring $160 million, 2½-hour project that’s not a sequel or based on a graphic novel or videogame, ends on a joke: A little spinning top that Leonardo DiCaprio’s Dom Cobb, a master dream thief, has chosen for his “totem”—i.e., a personal object that connects him to reality—is left spinning on a table. Earlier in the film we’re told that if the top keeps spinning, it means the subject is still in a dream; if it stops, it’s real life. As Cobb goes to embrace his children, something he’s yearned for the entire movie, the top begins to falter. Then the screen goes black. The last piece of the puzzle is left for the viewer to fill in for himself.
Why criticize Inception because it doesn’t explain how the mind “really” works? Does anyone truly believe that a movie can explain the unconscious?

The audience at both showings I attended burst into appreciative applause, alive to the fact that they were being teased. In fact, I talked to several second-time viewers who said they spotted numerous jokes they missed the first time, such as the repeated playing of Edith Piaf’s “Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien”—“Nolan’s signature song,” one suggested. Other moviegoers have reported shocked gasps at the ending that weren’t uniformly favorable.

If Inception is a puzzle, it’s one that New York-area critics haven’t solved. After a pre-opening wave rave, mostly from the West Coast and the trade papers (particularly Variety’s Justin Chang, who was delighted with the film’s “playful” homages to artists such as Magritte and M.C. Escher), the film hit a critical stonewall. And not just with old farts like Rex Reed, who wrote in The New York Observer that “Nolan is an elegant Hollywood hack from London whose movies are a colossal waste of time, money, and IQ points,” thus maintaining a perfect record of failing to grasp every innovative filmmaker since Robert Altman, but also with The New York Times’ A.O Scott, who felt that Inception “trades in crafty puzzles rather than profound mysteries”—unlike, he thought, Stanley Kubrick’s 2001, A Space Odyssey. (Scott may be the last critic to think that 2001, famously nailed long ago by John Simon as “a shaggy God story,” is profound.)

The core of the New York critical backlash revolved around three points: the mass cult status that Christopher Nolan has attained with his last film, The Dark Knight (the terminally crabby Armond White of the New York Press dismisses all Nolan fans as “Nolanoids”); the complexity of the script (“No one short of a NASA systems analyst will be able to articulate the plot,” griped John Anderson in The Wall Street Journal; and, as voiced by Scott, the film’s dearth of profundities.

Nolan’s dark, phantasmagorical sensibility often rubs people the wrong way (The Dark Knight rubbed me the wrong way two years ago). As for Inception’s complexity, though, I can’t see why more critics aren’t cutting it some slack; judging form early reactions, the audience doesn’t seem to be having much problem understanding it. (And, as Todd McCarthy suggested on indieWire.com, Inception is only marginally more confounding than The Big Sleep, which has been regarded as a classic for more than 60 years.)

In any event, there’s never been an easier movie to watch, even when you can’t grasp all the details. Certainly not The Matrix or Avatar, both of which seem clunky and dated in comparison to Inception.

Finally, I don’t think Nolan intended for Inception to be profound or even appear profound. Nolan is smarter than that, and I think he gives his audience credit for being smarter than that, too. (Why criticize Inception because it doesn’t explain how the mind “really” works? Does anyone truly believe that a movie can explain the unconscious?)
Nolan uses techniques usually associated with innovative fiction writers—simultaneous narratives, for instance, and varying rhythms to distinguish different levels of dreams. It seems to have ruffled some that he’s put these techniques to the service of what is admittedly pulp material, like car chases and gunfights. (And not always successfully—an Alpine assault sequence involving skiers with machine guns and snowmobiles goes on entirely too long and is too conventional. I kept waiting for Bruce Willis, or any number of James Bonds, to pop up.) But it doesn’t make the technique any less innovative, especially in a work designed for a mass audience. Others are objecting that all this ingenuity doesn’t advance some epic or important idea. But why would anyone want it to? (Who complains about the lack of “profound ideas” in, say, Nabokov’s labyrinthine novels?)
There is a hard gem at the center of Inception’s dazzling juxtaposition of noir and light show. In a marvelously written little scene toward the end, DiCaprio’s Cobb tells his dead wife, Mal (Marion Cotillard), that he can’t come back to her because it isn’t her, merely his projection of her from memory. He is incapable of recreating her “in all your complexities, in all your perfections and imperfections.” It’s some of the best acting DiCaprio has ever done and a surprising statement from Nolan himself. He’s telling us that works of the imagination, no matter how skillfully woven, are not a substitute for reality. (I find this simple idea more profound than anything in a Stanley Kubrick film.)

Whether or not Inception is a financial success depends, of course, on word-of-mouth (which, judging from early reports, it seems to be getting, particularly with viewers 25 and under) and repeat business. Some are cynically suggesting that Nolan deliberately made the film obscure to ensure that it be seen again. This is silly; you can’t make films that induce audiences to go back and see something they didn’t like the first time. Viewers have to want to see it again; they have to hunger to further probe its mysteries. I think Nolan has successfully implanted that idea in their minds.

If nothing else, it should be acknowledged that Nolan has accomplished a truly astonishing feat: For the first time, a major director who started out making small budget, personal films has taken huge budgets and continued to make films just as personal. Make that two astonishing feats—unlike Spielberg, Cameron, and the Wachowskis, he hasn’t pandered to his audience, he’s talked up to them. As G.K. Chesterton said of Dickens, he’s popular not because he gives his audience what they want, but because he wants the same things they do. The smart audience, for once ahead of many of Nolan’s critics, seems to appreciate that.

Inception, A.O. Scott wrote, “may suggest the limits not only of this very talented director but also of his chosen art form at this moment in history.” Since Nolan continues to top himself each time out, I think it’s more likely that Inception suggests that he has outstripped the critical establishment. Here’s hoping they catch up to him by the next time out.



____________________________________
Twitter: nipsey
A Friend's Blog: http://trayrific.wordpress.com/
My Yelp Reviews: http://nipsey.yelp.com

XBOX Live Gamertag: slballer

Last 2 movies I saw:

Get Him to the Greek: C
Hot Tub Time Machine: B-

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Tue Jul-20-10 08:34 PM

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344. "somebody didnt pay enough attention."
In response to Reply # 332


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Challenger
Member since Dec 21st 2004
4193 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 06:05 PM

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339. "Saw it today. Incredible. Havent fully processed it ... "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

may need to sleep on it another 24hrs or maybe see it again ... crazy.

Challenger-

************************************************************************************
M. Ali - the Greatest - https://youtube.com/watch?v=jkhpZoPOfZI

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 10:03 PM

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346. "Some thoughts/questions after my 2nd viewing"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-20-10 10:09 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

-First off, the totem. Notice how Leo anxiously spins his totem right away after coming back from a dream to make sure he's still not dreaming. This relates to two things: First off, in Yusef's mombassa den, after Leo wakes up after having the railroad dream(so he wakes up when they die), he goes to spin the totem in the bathroom.....but Saito comes in and Leo accidentally knocks it onto the floor. Now we know from the Mal flashback where she tips the totem over in the safe that it actually has to be spun in order for it to be effective. However, after Leo knocks it onto the floor, he doesn't try to spin it again and the next time we see it in the current storyline is when it is spinning on top of Saito's table in limbo at the end......thus, there's no way to know if Leo ever woke up, is there? Secondly, him anxiously spinning the totem to prove reality relates to the last scene of the movie. This is the only scene where Leo spins the totem and simply walks away without caring about the result.....the beauty of it is that he doesn't care if he is dreaming or not anymore. He has dealt with his demon(s) and is now in the place where he wants to be....he spins the totem and walks to his kids.

- JLG says that if you enter limbo in a shared dream with someone who has been there, then limbo becomes that individual's constructed space. So if I have that correct, the reason why the in limbo Saito was at his palace is because that's where Leo encountered him and naturally his mind constructed that to be his 'limbo home'.....kind of how Leo's mind constructed that Fischer would be with Mal....right?

- Leo says that he and Mal experimented with dreams within dreams and that he continued to push the limits of that....which I assume even more layers of dreams? Now Yusef says that the only way to have multiple layers of dreams without them crumbling is to be heavily sedated....however, if you die in those dreams while sedated, you go into limbo. Therefore, if Leo and Mal heavily sedated themselves in order to delve into stable deeper layers, then the railroad suicide would have no affect except push them farther into limbo and provide a new mental construct of limbo(which can be paralleled to the interpretation of what happened to Leo after he was killed in limbo with saito...it just created a new construct where he was back on the flight because you have to kick back out of every level with that level of sedation), which in that case means Leo is in limbo for the entire movie. There are two prominent questions, that I can think of, which retort this interpretation, the first of which I have a reasonable response to. That first being the interpretation that limbo isn't defined by the depth of layers but rather whether or not you believe it is real....ie, you can be in limbo even on the first level if you believe it is real. So Leo and Mal may have only been in say the second layer of dreaming which is relatively stable without heavy sedation, thus killing themselves wakes them up. My answer to this is as follows: If they were in this world for 50 years and their kids survived/barely aged, then they must have been down deep enough for real time to be extremely slow. On the third level with the sedative Yusef was using, 10 hours = 10 years....we are talking about 5x that w/ their kids being relatively the same as they left them....that requires multiple layers of dreams for time to slow that much and a heavy sedative for those deep layers to be stable. Unless there was something entirely unique to the Fischer inception plan that requires sedation, then what other conclusion can you come to other than Leo being in limbo? However, the 2nd question I cannot answer is if he was in limbo, how come the totem stops spinning the first couple times he does it? I do not have an answer to that.

- Fischer jr's death and subsequent revival confused me the first time, but it cleared up after this viewing.....if you can find that person on the next level, which in this case was Leo's representation of limbo, and kick them out....you can revive them on the next level up.


Brilliant film.



---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 10:30 PM

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349. "Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 346


          

When they laid on the tracks, was that limbo? If it was, why did they think the exit to limbo was killing themselves? Limbo is supposed to be this awful place but the way out is the same as any other dream? Also, why were they young if they'd spent 50 years together in limbo?

Anyway, my problem with the "It's all a dream" theory is that nothing mattered. The entire heist was pointless. Leo was never trying to escape his dream and was never trying to help anyone else escape. He was just kind of trying to convince himself that he could just go back to America in his dream. And "dealing with his demons" is odd since, if he had any inkling that where he was at the end was a dream, then he should have wanted out even more because that means that when Mal killed herself, she might not have died - she might have been right and was actually in the real world.

If the whole thing was about self-delusion, it seems like this was a ambiguous rehash of Memento.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 10:57 PM

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350. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 349
Tue Jul-20-10 11:04 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

>When they laid on the tracks, was that limbo? If it was, why
>did they think the exit to limbo was killing themselves? Limbo
>is supposed to be this awful place but the way out is the same
>as any other dream? Also, why were they young if they'd spent
>50 years together in limbo?

I'm pretty sure it was in limbo....limbo becomes where you lose yourself in the dream if I am not mistaken? Also, from what I deduced, I don't think limbo is necessarily an awful place.....it is what you make of it. Mal decided that it was her reality so she was perfectly content, for Leo it was hell because he chose not to accept it as real.

They were young because every dream layer is slower and that was my point about Leo being in limbo the entire movie....if they are there for 50 years and time hasn't moved all that much, that would require them to be in some deep deep level....I'm pretty positive Leo never mentions how much real time passed, but considering that his kids were still alive lol or not much older, that much real time must not have passed? But then again, if they were in a deep layer and by killing themselves fell into a deeper layer, then their kids and age may just be a mental construct? Cotdamn....anyways, according to Yusef, stability in deeper levels requires the usage of heavy sedation. If they are heavily sedated and kill themselves, they go even deeper into limbo.

>Anyway, my problem with the "It's all a dream" theory is that
>nothing mattered. The entire heist was pointless. Leo was
>never trying to escape his dream and was never trying to help
>anyone else escape. He was just kind of trying to convince
>himself that he could just go back to America in his dream.
>And "dealing with his demons" is odd since, if he had any
>inkling that where he was at the end was a dream, then he
>should have wanted out even more because that means that when
>Mal killed herself, she might not have died - she might have
>been right and was actually in the real world.
>
>If the whole thing was about self-delusion, it seems like this
>was a ambiguous rehash of Memento.

I have no idea if it was or wasn't....but I am just using the rules that Nolan laid out. Further, in regards to the ending....remember what Mal tells him at the table in their final meeting? What you believe is most important.....and Leo, at that point, believes that she is gone and that their time is past. Therefore, he can let go and just live.....he takes the leap of faith and decides to become the young man instead of the old man full of regret, living with a shade of his wife. Part of that leap of faith is absolute belief, and him spinning the totem without any anxiety or care for the result shows that he truly believes in that 'reality'.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 11:34 PM

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353. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 350


          

>I'm pretty sure it was in limbo....limbo becomes where you
>lose yourself in the dream if I am not mistaken? Also, from
>what I deduced, I don't think limbo is necessarily an awful
>place.....it is what you make of it. Mal decided that it was
>her reality so she was perfectly content, for Leo it was hell
>because he chose not to accept it as real.

But how did they get out of it? I called it an awful place because we're told that it's a place in which you are stranded when you die in a dream. It's sold as a place you don't want to end up. But apparently you aren't stranded; in fact you can just kill yourself to get out of it. Leo and Mal did it. Ellen Page does it. Why wouldn't everyone? Why not just tell everyone, "Hey, when you die in your dream and go to limbo, just kill yourself and you'll be out of there."


>They were young because every dream layer is slower and that
>was my point about Leo being in limbo the entire movie....

I get the time issue. That's not it. Cobbs said he grew old with Mal in the dream and we actually saw a shot of them as an elderly couple, walking hand-in-hand but then when they lie on the tracks, they're back to being young. That doesn't make sense to me.


>Part of that leap of faith is absolute belief, and
>him spinning the totem without any anxiety or care for the
>result shows that he truly believes in that 'reality'.

So it's self-delusion. It's a more convoluted Memento, with the heist being an indirect way for him to get to deal with his problem and he never has the realization that it is all a dream, he just stops trying to find out. I don't know; that's still an unsatisfying end to me.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 12:15 AM

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358. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 353
Wed Jul-21-10 12:40 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

>But how did they get out of it? I called it an awful place
>because we're told that it's a place in which you are stranded
>when you die in a dream. It's sold as a place you don't want
>to end up. But apparently you aren't stranded; in fact you can
>just kill yourself to get out of it. Leo and Mal did it.

It is where you are stranded, but even that is what you make of it. If you are fine living in that dream, like Mal was, then that is fine.....but in general, I don't think most people would want to live in a dream world rather than reality. Leo and Mal did do it, but the issue is realizing that in the first place fam. Why would you kill yourself if you think you are actually living in reality?

>Ellen
>Page does it.

Ariadne KNOWS distinctly where she is because she went there for a purpose, she didn't get lost in a dream....she knows it is limbo. Also, she was able to kick out of all the levels which was required due to the sedation.

>Why wouldn't everyone? Why not just tell
>everyone, "Hey, when you die in your dream and go to limbo,
>just kill yourself and you'll be out of there."

The entire point of limbo is that you don't know you are in it! Once Leo realized that he was in limbo with Mal, he wanted out whereas Mal convinced herself that it was reality. That's why Leo has to remind Saito of where he is and Leo even has some trouble remembering why is there in the first place....and that again brings me to the point of sedation. It was mentioned numerous times that while under that heavy of sedation(which is required for stabilizing deeper layers), you have to kick out of each level. You can't just kill yourself and skip out entirely.

>I get the time issue. That's not it. Cobbs said he grew old
>with Mal in the dream and we actually saw a shot of them as an
>elderly couple, walking hand-in-hand but then when they lie on
>the tracks, they're back to being young. That doesn't make
>sense to me.

If you look closely, their hands are still old. IMO, them being young in that scene just represents them becoming aware of who they are in reality.


>So it's self-delusion. It's a more convoluted Memento, with
>the heist being an indirect way for him to get to deal with
>his problem and he never has the realization that it is all a
>dream, he just stops trying to find out. I don't know; that's
>still an unsatisfying end to me.


I say belief, you call it delusion.....but it all depends on the eye of the beholder imo. He stops because he truly believes he has dealt with his problem and resolved his situation.....he took the leap of faith that is mentioned throughout the movie.

If you read my initial ending interpretation above, that is still the one I'm leaning toward.....that all the stuff previous to the heist was real but he was lost in limbo when the snow building exploded, and the ending is just a different mental construct of his limbo, the result of him taking a leap of faith instead of becoming an old man filled with regrets.

The 'it's all a dream' theory however still fits if you decipher the rules that Nolan has put into place.....if Leo and Mal are lost deep in layers, which requires sedation which subsequently requires a kick out of every layer which they obviously did not do, then killing themselves only puts them deeper into limbo....and as you said, the movie basically becomes one where everything takes place in the subconscious.

edit: After thinking about it and how JLG described it....limbo is its own independent level that you reach after you are lost in any layer, therefore it has its own time(whereas before I was basing the time slowing affect on whatever layer the individual got lost in). So to me, that negates the 'its all a dream' interpretation.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 12:49 AM

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361. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 358
Wed Jul-21-10 01:01 AM by SoulHonky

          

>It is where you are stranded, but even that is what you make
>of it. If you are fine living in that dream, like Mal was,
>then that is fine.....but in general, I don't think most
>people would want to live in a dream world rather than
>reality. Leo and Mal did do it, but the issue is realizing
>that in the first place fam. Why would you kill yourself if
>you think you are actually living in reality?

Wait, so when they were walking around creating a city and building the houses they once lived in, they didn't think they were dreaming? And if, when you go to limbo you forget reality, why didn't it happen to Page and Leo? The rules don't apply if you send yourself to limbo?

EDIT: I guess this must be the reason. Nothing else really makes sense.

Also, if Mal knew that Cobbs wouldn't follow her, why wouldn't she just shoot him? Why would Cobbs go through the whole trouble of inception if he knew he could just shoot her and get her out of the dream? (Like Page did when she pushed Fischer off the building)

>You can't just kill yourself
>and skip out entirely.

Isn't this exactly what Leo and Mal did with the train? If the sedative was strong enough for them to go to limbo in the first place (rather than just waking up) why did killing themselves later make a difference?


>If you look closely, their hands are still old. IMO, them
>being young in that scene just represents them becoming aware
>of who they are in reality.

C'mon. Now you're just making shit up.


>I say belief, you call it delusion.....but it all depends on
>the eye of the beholder imo. He stops because he truly
>believes he has dealt with his problem and resolved his
>situation.....he took the leap of faith that is mentioned
>throughout the movie.

It's not really taking a leap of faith if you think that it's reality. I think the ending (if the set-up for the heist was reality) is more of an "Oh shit! He didn't make it out!" than a "He's happy to live in whatever reality as long as he's with his kids." The strength of a film like Memento is that Leonard chooses to be delusional; Cobbs doesn't seem to know that he is.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 01:14 AM

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364. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 361


  

          


>Wait, so when they were walking around creating a city and
>building the houses they once lived in, they didn't think they
>were dreaming? And if, when you go to limbo you forget
>reality, why didn't it happen to Page and Leo? The rules don't
>apply if you send yourself to limbo?

Mal convinced herself that this(limbo) is where she wanted to be and thus it became her reality(her stopping the totem). Leo convinced himself of the same thing imo, but then after however many years, realized he didn't want to be there anymore.....but he obviously wasn't going to go without Mal.

As far as Leo and Page, imo that wasn't a true limbo.....it was just Leo's representation of his limbo(he was the dreamer in that sequence). I don't think we see true limbo until after Leo is killed within the snow fortress and they leave him in the sinking van.

>Also, if Mal knew that Cobbs wouldn't follow her, why wouldn't
>she just shoot him?

I think she thought that the only reason Cobbs wouldn't follow was because of the guilt of leaving the kids.....but she was wrong.

>Why would Cobbs go through the whole
>trouble of inception if he knew he could just shoot her and
>get her out of the dream? (Like Page did when she pushed
>Fischer off the building)

I think he might have done this eventually, if he couldn't get her to cooperate otherwise.

>Isn't this exactly what Leo and Mal did with the train? If the
>sedative was strong enough for them to go to limbo in the
>first place (rather than just waking up) why did killing
>themselves later make a difference?

IF they were heavily sedated and did that.....then the entire movie is in the subconscious because you cannot get out while heavily sedated unless you kick through every level. However, based on what JLG's character said when describing it, limbo seems to be its own separate level with a rate of time unique to limbo.....therefore, you don't have to be a ton of layers in to reach limbo, you just have to become lost within a layer and you enter the limbo layer which has an extremely slow rate of time.


>C'mon. Now you're just making shit up.
>
Then why were the hands old and the bodies not? That doesn't make sense.

>It's not really taking a leap of faith if you think that it's
>reality. I think the ending (if the set-up for the heist was
>reality) is more of an "Oh shit! He didn't make it out!" than
>a "He's happy to live in whatever reality as long as he's with
>his kids." The strength of a film like Memento is that Leonard
>chooses to be delusional; Cobbs doesn't seem to know that he
>is.

I think what was meant by leap of faith was just believing in something rather than dying an old man.....the abrupt transition we see after Saito grabs the gun off the table is imo that leap of faith. Leo chooses to believe everything worked out rather than be stuck as an old man in limbo....but as you said, he is in limbo nonetheless. I'd still rather be in that end limbo than chilling with old ass Saito for eternity lol.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 09:47 AM

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369. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 364
Wed Jul-21-10 09:57 AM by SoulHonky

          

>Mal convinced herself that this(limbo) is where she wanted to
>be and thus it became her reality(her stopping the totem).
>Leo convinced himself of the same thing imo, but then after
>however many years, realized he didn't want to be there
>anymore.....but he obviously wasn't going to go without Mal.

I don't think it's about convincing yourself because Saito also got stuck there and he seemed to be very unhappy and filled with regret.


>As far as Leo and Page, imo that wasn't a true limbo.....it
>was just Leo's representation of his limbo(he was the dreamer
>in that sequence).

But the whole reason they went there was to get Fischer and Saito, right? So it had to be true limbo or else they just never ended up where they needed to go.

And if people got younger when they realized, wouldn't there have been a time when Leo grew younger while Mal stayed old? Wouldn't we have seen that?

It seems to me that the whole bit about limbo just isn't explained well enough and we don't even know what we can use as evidence because stuff like Leo and Saito talking there is apparently a dream of a dream (at least, the way we see the end of the film.) And the audience has to just make stuff up to explain key scenes.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 12:20 PM

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373. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 369


  

          


>I don't think it's about convincing yourself because Saito
>also got stuck there and he seemed to be very unhappy and
>filled with regret.

But he was under heavy sedation....that's why he was in limbo. I don't think Leo and Mal were under heavy sedation when they were in limbo because that would mean the entire movie took place in Leo's subconscious(because you can't leave limbo under sedation unless you kick out of every level). I think they got lost touch with reality because they were using memories to build their dreams(look at post 372).


>But the whole reason they went there was to get Fischer and
>Saito, right? So it had to be true limbo or else they just
>never ended up where they needed to go.

They went there to get Fischer.....but remember when it is revealed in the warehouse that they will go to limbo if they die, JLG says that since they are dream-sharing with an individual who has already been there in Leo, his construction is what will become their limbo as well. So essentially his mental representation of limbo is true limbo for everyone else, so that's where Fischer is.


>And if people got younger when they realized, wouldn't there
>have been a time when Leo grew younger while Mal stayed old?
>Wouldn't we have seen that?

Honestly, I think that was a minor point that Nolan didn't care to go into because it would have confused viewers seeing them simultaneously in different state, on the first viewing.

>It seems to me that the whole bit about limbo just isn't
>explained well enough and we don't even know what we can use
>as evidence because stuff like Leo and Saito talking there is
>apparently a dream of a dream (at least, the way we see the
>end of the film.) And the audience has to just make stuff up
>to explain key scenes.

There's definitely some ambiguity, to say the least.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 01:47 PM

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376. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 373


          

>>And if people got younger when they realized, wouldn't there
>>have been a time when Leo grew younger while Mal stayed old?
>>Wouldn't we have seen that?
>
>Honestly, I think that was a minor point that Nolan didn't
>care to go into because it would have confused viewers seeing
>them simultaneously in different state, on the first viewing.

But this is my major issue with the film (and many "mindfuck" movies). Moments like this are put in there and not really explained without essentially a kind of fan fiction being conjured up. If that's the case, they just shouldn't be there. If it isn't a major point, have Cobbs and Mal be old when they're on the tracks. To have them be young and say, "Well, there's this whole other element I didn't want to get into" doesn't work for me. It just seems lazy, especially in a film that is intended to have people investigate every moment.

Limbo is one of the key elements of the film; it's where Mal loses her mind, it's the biggest threat to them if they get shot. But we have no idea how it really works. Mal and Leo somehow got shipped there because they believed the dream was real but Saito got there by being shot yet he somehow also didn't realize it was a dream. To me there's a difference between being ambiguous and being undefined; too much of this film seems to be unknowable and most of our discussions revolve around defining things rather than trying to solve the ambiguity of the ending.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Wed Jul-21-10 03:21 PM

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384. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 376


  

          

>>>And if people got younger when they realized, wouldn't
>there
>>>have been a time when Leo grew younger while Mal stayed
>old?
>>>Wouldn't we have seen that?
>>
>>Honestly, I think that was a minor point that Nolan didn't
>>care to go into because it would have confused viewers
>seeing
>>them simultaneously in different state, on the first
>viewing.
>
>But this is my major issue with the film (and many "mindfuck"
>movies). Moments like this are put in there and not really
>explained without essentially a kind of fan fiction being
>conjured up. If that's the case, they just shouldn't be there.
>If it isn't a major point, have Cobbs and Mal be old when
>they're on the tracks. To have them be young and say, "Well,
>there's this whole other element I didn't want to get into"
>doesn't work for me. It just seems lazy, especially in a film
>that is intended to have people investigate every moment.

again, you're taking the old/young thing as literal. they were still old in limbo. it was shown with their hands. i stand firm that it was a great way to put it visually. not sure what other element you're talking about. and on the contrary, for a film that is intended to have people investigate every moment, this was a PERFECT way to show the audience that Mal and Cobbs accepted the fact that they were in limbo and that, though old in limbo, they were still young in reality.


>Limbo is one of the key elements of the film; it's where Mal
>loses her mind, it's the biggest threat to them if they get
>shot. But we have no idea how it really works. Mal and Leo
>somehow got shipped there because they believed the dream was
>real but Saito got there by being shot yet he somehow also
>didn't realize it was a dream. To me there's a difference
>between being ambiguous and being undefined; too much of this
>film seems to be unknowable and most of our discussions
>revolve around defining things rather than trying to solve the
>ambiguity of the ending.

it was never shown how Cobbs and Mal got there. all Cobbs said was that they kept diving deeper and deeper into the layers. but since Cobbs knows when if you are killed under sedation you are brought into limbo, it is extremely likely that Cobbs and Mal killed themselves to get there. since killing themselves was a way to wake up, then they probably decided to do so. while there is plenty not explained to us, i think enough was explained.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Jul-21-10 03:51 PM

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386. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 384


          

>it was never shown how Cobbs and Mal got there. all Cobbs said
>was that they kept diving deeper and deeper into the layers.
>but since Cobbs knows when if you are killed under sedation
>you are brought into limbo, it is extremely likely that Cobbs
>and Mal killed themselves to get there. since killing
>themselves was a way to wake up, then they probably decided to
>do so. while there is plenty not explained to us, i think
>enough was explained.

I think LA2P's explanation works a bit better. I don't think it really works that they killed themselves to get there and then killed themselves to get out? The way the sedative was described and the way people reacted to the news of it made it seem like it was a big deal to have a sedative that they couldn't snap out of; not like it was something that Mal and Cobbs would have experimented with.

I just think that Limbo is such an important piece to the puzzle that the rules of it need to be defined and not something that everyone disagrees on or has their own theories about.

----
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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 04:21 PM

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391. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 384


  

          


>it was never shown how Cobbs and Mal got there. all Cobbs said
>was that they kept diving deeper and deeper into the layers.
>but since Cobbs knows when if you are killed under sedation
>you are brought into limbo, it is extremely likely that Cobbs
>and Mal killed themselves to get there. since killing
>themselves was a way to wake up, then they probably decided to
>do so. while there is plenty not explained to us, i think
>enough was explained.

Post 372....your explanation doesn't work according to the rules laid out. You can enter limbo by getting killed if you are sedated, but the only way to get out while sedated, is to kick out of every level consecutively(like Fischer and Ariadne did).

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Jul-21-10 05:11 PM

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393. "Nevermind."
In response to Reply # 391
Wed Jul-21-10 05:45 PM by SoulHonky

          

The whole reason they could kick out was because that was when the sedative was wearing off at that point. If they had tried the exact same thing 30 minutes earlier, they would have just kicked themselves right back into limbo, right?

Which makes me think, wouldn't it be that if you die in one level, you get sent back to the previous level, until you get to level 1 and can't snap out of the dream. Or is it if you're in a light sleep and die in level 2, you'd just immediately wake up.

EDIT: I guess the sedative was so strong it would take at least TWO kicks to wake up as opposed to just one kick. That kind of makes more sense.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 05:53 PM

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399. "RE: Also, the sedative has to be wearing off."
In response to Reply # 393
Wed Jul-21-10 06:04 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

>The whole reason they could kick out was because that was
>when the sedative was wearing off at that point. If they had
>tried the exact same thing 30 minutes earlier, they would have
>just kicked themselves right back into limbo, right?

Right, I think they could have kicked out after a certain time because yusuf's sedative still left inner-ear functions workings(and remember, they actually missed their intended kick when the van fell off the bridge but then used the kick provided by hitting the water)...so your equilibrium was still in play.

>Which makes me think, wouldn't it be that if you die in one
>level, you get sent back to the previous level, until you get
>to level 1 and can't snap out of the dream. Or is it if you're
>in a light sleep and die in level 2, you'd just immediately
>wake up.

Unless you are heavily sedated.....you can postulate that whatever function that causes death to wake you up was blocked by the heavy sedation(that's why they had to have kicks since inner-ear function still behaved normally). Further, remember at the start of the movie, JLG gets shot but still wakes up in the architect's dream. JLG says Saito's dream is breaking down and he is going to try and give Leo some extra time....imo this implies that some type of sedation is required even for very stable level 2 dreaming, but it takes an extremely serious dose if you want to go one level deeper(remember Yusuf's shock and doubt when Leo first told him they wanted to go three levels in.)

I think if you are in a light sleep, that level 2 would basically be uninhabitable.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Wed Jul-21-10 05:28 PM

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394. "the only way to get out of YUSUF's heavy sedative was to kick simultaneo..."
In response to Reply # 391
Wed Jul-21-10 05:30 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

not for any other sedative. but you're right about needing the heavy sedative to get into limbo lol.

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 05:41 PM

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395. "There's really no way to know that, his is the only sedative explained"
In response to Reply # 394


  

          

No point in speculating on that lol.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Wed Jul-21-10 05:45 PM

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396. "i think if we keep digging deeper, we're gonna end up in limbo."
In response to Reply # 395
Wed Jul-21-10 05:46 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Jul-21-10 05:47 PM

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397. "How do you know we're not already there?"
In response to Reply # 396


          

Not that I'm saying we should lie on a train track to find out.

----
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al_sharp
Charter member
64140 posts
Fri Jul-23-10 04:00 PM

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462. "lol"
In response to Reply # 396


  

          


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

http://twitter.com/shamelessplug
http://youlooklikecraptoday.com

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Jul-21-10 05:50 PM

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398. "Although, how did Yusuf wake up?"
In response to Reply # 394


          

If you need simultaneous kicks and he was only on one level of the dream, how would he have woken up?

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 05:57 PM

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400. "I don't think the kicks have to be simultaneous, just in order"
In response to Reply # 398


  

          

They had to be simultaneous in their case because they were working against time and had to coordinate everything because of how many individuals were involved in getting kicked.

They all end up on Yusuf's level.....and most likely had the stewardess kick them out based on the time they had given her.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Jul-21-10 06:07 PM

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401. "So Yusuf would have just woken up first, no?"
In response to Reply # 400


          

If they just needed to be in order and not simultaneous, he was only on level one, the first kick (the one that the rest of them missed) would still have woken him up.

Also, if they had just left Saito behind in level one (where he was shot) wouldn't he have just woken up when he died in the dream, rather than going to limbo?

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 06:20 PM

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403. "RE: So Yusuf would have just woken up first, no?"
In response to Reply # 401
Wed Jul-21-10 06:27 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

>If they just needed to be in order and not simultaneous, he
>was only on level one, the first kick (the one that the rest
>of them missed) would still have woken him up.

I'm pretty sure they don't have to be simultaneous because it's not like JLG, Ariadne, Eeames or Fischer Jr kicked out of the level one, ....they swam to the surface and the latter two even had that talk where you know the inception has worked. They only have to be simultaneous if you have to coordinate multiple kicks....so you don't miss any and end up stuck or dead(and go to limbo).

As far as Yusuf, I think you are right lol....I don't see why he wouldn't kick out since Fischer Jr and Ariadne kicked themselves out of limbo by falling.....unless limbo has some kind of special property? Which is a bs reach imo. I wonder if anyone else has an explanation.


>Also, if they had just left Saito behind in level one (where
>he was shot) wouldn't he have just woken up when he died in
>the dream, rather than going to limbo?

From what I understood, they were all heavily sedated even when they went into the first level.....so at that point, it doesn't matter what level you are on.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Wed Jul-21-10 09:14 PM

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414. "Yusuf had no kick unless the flight attendant was involved."
In response to Reply # 403


  

          

i thought the sedative was supposed to just wear off, and that was their escape from level 1. don't they show Yusuf swim away from the van? i don't think you can kick yourself in the same level.

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LA2Philly
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:00 PM

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425. "RE: Yusuf had no kick unless the flight attendant was involved."
In response to Reply # 414


  

          

>i thought the sedative was supposed to just wear off, and
>that was their escape from level 1.

Yeh, either it's the sedative or it's the stewardess.....doesn't really matter.

>i don't think you can kick yourself in the
>same level.

Then why do Fischer and Ariadne have to jump off the building in limbo? How does Fischer Jr kick back to level 3 and get resuscitated by the defibrillator?

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:31 PM

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431. "RE: Yusuf had no kick unless the flight attendant was involved."
In response to Reply # 425


  

          

>>i thought the sedative was supposed to just wear off, and
>>that was their escape from level 1.
>
>Yeh, either it's the sedative or it's the
>stewardess.....doesn't really matter.
>
>>i don't think you can kick yourself in the
>>same level.
>
>Then why do Fischer and Ariadne have to jump off the building
>in limbo? How does Fischer Jr kick back to level 3 and get
>resuscitated by the defibrillator?

yeah, you're right, one of the simultaneous kicks has to be in the same level. however, it's not necessary for level 2 or 1.

if you watch it again, the idea of simultaneous kicks only comes up when they talk about diving into level 3.

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LA2Philly
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:57 PM

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435. "gotcha, I have to make sure to catch this when I see it again"
In response to Reply # 431
Thu Jul-22-10 02:04 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

>yeah, you're right, one of the simultaneous kicks has to be in
>the same level. however, it's not necessary for level 2 or 1.
>
>if you watch it again, the idea of simultaneous kicks only
>comes up when they talk about diving into level 3.

Basically, level 3 is so deep that they need a kick at that level and the one above them(simultaneous).....same goes for any level down obviously.

Fischer falling in level 4 = his kick on level 4; Fischer being resuscitated = the simultaneous kick on level 3.

Ariadne falling in level 4 = her kick on level 4; Fortress explosion = the simultaneous kick on level 3.

So now they are both back in level 3....so for Fischer, Ariadne and Eeames: fortress explosion = their kick on level 3; elevator falling = the simultaneous kick on level 2.

Now that everyone is back on level 2, van hitting the water = their kick back to level 1.

Got it.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Thu Jul-22-10 02:22 PM

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439. "exactly. but like i said in another post, Arthur was only meant to wake...."
In response to Reply # 435
Thu Jul-22-10 02:23 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

up at the end of the song. how this is possible, i'm not sure -- maybe the sedative specifically for him was designed that way? so not only was it a countdown to kick, but it was also an indication that he was about to wake up. i think that was the point of his scene where he wakes up at the end of the song and says, "it worked!". they never clearly explain it.

for Eames' dream, he was in Level 3, so he needed a simultaneous kick, and the song served only as a countdown for his kick.

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Wed Jul-21-10 08:57 PM

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413. "you needed 2 simultaneous kicks to jump up from level 3."
In response to Reply # 401


  

          

i believe Yusef or Eames mentioned this when Cobbs brings up the idea of jumping down to level 3 with such a heavy sedative.

the music was to warn the dreamer that the kick is about to occur and when to kick.

because of the time differences between levels, there is a time buffer they can play with.

once Arthur heard the music, he set up the explosives to detonate at the same time the van hits the bridge. they miss this kick. why HE doesn't wake up from it? i can only guess that the kick wasn't strong enough. (i need some of this sedative! got lean?) the free-fall into the water was the fail-safe. since Ariadne designed it this way, Arthur knows how much time he has before the van hits. i believe he says he has X minutes. this was needed to sync his elevator kick with the van to water impact.

why they designed a kick in level 3? idk. maybe in case level 4 wasn't limbo? i have no clue. maybe another fail-safe? either way, i think Eames had music too.

but yes, the kicks had to be "simultaneous". otherwise, Arthur wouldn't have waited 'til the final second to kick them down the elevator.

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:12 PM

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428. "RE: you needed 2 simultaneous kicks to jump up from level 3."
In response to Reply # 413
Thu Jul-22-10 01:19 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

>i believe Yusef or Eames mentioned this when Cobbs brings up
>the idea of jumping down to level 3 with such a heavy
>sedative.

I honestly do not remember that.

>the music was to warn the dreamer that the kick is about to
>occur and when to kick.

Right, it's the countdown to coordinate the kicks.
>

>once Arthur heard the music, he set up the explosives to
>detonate at the same time the van hits the bridge. they miss
>this kick. why HE doesn't wake up from it? i can only guess
>that the kick wasn't strong enough. (i need some of this
>sedative! got lean?) the free-fall into the water was the
>fail-safe. since Ariadne designed it this way, Arthur knows
>how much time he has before the van hits. i believe he says he
>has X minutes. this was needed to sync his elevator kick with
>the van to water impact.

Yeh, why wouldn't JLG wake up? If that was the planned kick, then he should have been kicked back to level 1 when the van started falling right?

>why they designed a kick in level 3? idk. maybe in case level
>4 wasn't limbo? i have no clue. maybe another fail-safe?
>either way, i think Eames had music too.

They were never planning on going into a level 4.....Leo says that they are done once Fischer died, Ariadne is the one who brings up the idea of going to a level 4/limbo.


>but yes, the kicks had to be "simultaneous". otherwise, Arthur
>wouldn't have waited 'til the final second to kick them down
>the elevator.

They have to be simultaneous because of how dangerous the kicks are....he has to make them wake up from level 3 before the crumbling building actually kills them.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:23 PM

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430. "RE: you needed 2 simultaneous kicks to jump up from level 3."
In response to Reply # 428


  

          

>>i believe Yusef or Eames mentioned this when Cobbs brings
>up
>>the idea of jumping down to level 3 with such a heavy
>>sedative.
>
>I honestly do not remember that.

you'll see it if you watch it again lol.


>>the music was to warn the dreamer that the kick is about to
>>occur and when to kick.
>
>Right, it's the countdown to coordinate the kicks.
>>
>
>>once Arthur heard the music, he set up the explosives to
>>detonate at the same time the van hits the bridge. they miss
>>this kick. why HE doesn't wake up from it? i can only guess
>>that the kick wasn't strong enough. (i need some of this
>>sedative! got lean?) the free-fall into the water was the
>>fail-safe. since Ariadne designed it this way, Arthur knows
>>how much time he has before the van hits. i believe he says
>he
>>has X minutes. this was needed to sync his elevator kick
>with
>>the van to water impact.
>
>Yeh, why wouldn't JLG wake up? If that was the planned kick,
>then he should have been kicked back to level 1 when the van
>started falling right?

yeah, this seems to be a hole.


>>why they designed a kick in level 3? idk. maybe in case
>level
>>4 wasn't limbo? i have no clue. maybe another fail-safe?
>>either way, i think Eames had music too.
>
>They were never planning on going into a level 4.....Leo says
>that they are done once Fischer dies, Ariadne is the one who
>brings up the idea of going to a level 4/limbo.

yeah, had to be another fail-safe. i don't think level 4 was limbo. that's why the necessary simultaneous kicks (defibrillator for Cillian, and the building explosion for the rest -- that's why Ariadne delayed her jump). i'll have to watch it again.



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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:42 PM

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432. "i forgot the end of the song is a kick itself."
In response to Reply # 428


  

          

i have to watch it again. the part where they first experiment with the song, Arthur was woken up into the real world when the song ended -- ie. the end of the song was a kick itself. so when Arthur said they missed the first kick, it wasn't his kick. soooo... the song takes precedence over any other kick? a bit farfetched that you can be programmed to wake up from a song instead of a car collision if you ask me. but it seems that way.

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:49 PM

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433. "the end of the song wasn't ever a kick"
In response to Reply # 432


  

          

It just let them know when time was running out.....you can only be in the dream for a certain amount of time(remember the asian kid on the train looking at his watch and then putting the headphones on the architect).

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 02:05 PM

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436. "so song was an indicator the dream was gonna end/sedation wears off."
In response to Reply # 433
Thu Jul-22-10 02:08 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

(assuming that the dreamer isn't level 3 or below due to the simultaneous kick rule.)

so was Arthur sedated enough that he'd only awaken when the sedative wears off? that'd explain his reason for not kicking up to Level 1.

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 02:13 PM

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438. "I thought they were all coming back at the same time"
In response to Reply # 436


  

          

>so was Arthur sedated enough that he'd only awaken when the
>sedative wears off? that'd explain his reason for not kicking
>up to Level 1.

There was no indication that JLG was going to stay in level 2 and kick back later....and thus was more heavily sedated than the rest.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 02:24 PM

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440. "well, he had to set off the explosion, right? so he had to kick later."
In response to Reply # 438


  

          

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 03:11 PM

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441. "I don't think so bc the time buffer would allow everyone to kick togethe..."
In response to Reply # 440
Thu Jul-22-10 03:19 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

He times the explosive, everyone else kicks back to level 2, and then everyone kicks back to level 1 when the van falls.

And remember, the sedative allows inner-ear function no matter how sedated you are. That was the only kick function that still applied with that sedative.....so JLG should have kicked.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Thu Jul-22-10 05:07 PM

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448. "the freefall along with the van hitting the water was the entire kick."
In response to Reply # 441


  

          

and i thought the reason Arthur was sedated precisely to wake up with the song ended. ie. he was meant to stay behind to ensure the kick occurred and to give the team as much time possible to complete Inception. their plan was supposed to be somewhat of a cakewalk if Cillian wasn't trained, so they planned the first kick (van collision) to hit at the same time as the explosion. that means if Arthur DID have timed explosives, they would've gone off then. and that in turn means he was planned to set off the explosions himself.

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 05:39 PM

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449. "They were two different kicks, Leo distinctly states it"
In response to Reply # 448


  

          

When Eeames asks Leo in the snow scene if he hears the music, Leo says that they are just going to have to utilize the second kick(the van hitting the water) instead of the first one which was the original plan.

As far as JGL's explosive.....I still don't understand why he would have to kick out later if he times the explosives based on the music. He blows the hotel room floor so everyone else kicks out of level 3 and an instant later, the van begins the free fall...everyone kicks back to level 1.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 08:52 PM

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451. "of course it was two. "
In response to Reply # 449


  

          

the first was hitting the wall, the second kick was the freefall and the end of the kick was colliding with the water.


>When Eeames asks Leo in the snow scene if he hears the music,
>Leo says that they are just going to have to utilize the
>second kick(the van hitting the water) instead of the first
>one which was the original plan.
>
>As far as JGL's explosive.....I still don't understand why he
>would have to kick out later if he times the explosives based
>on the music. He blows the hotel room floor so everyone else
>kicks out of level 3 and an instant later, the van begins the
>free fall...everyone kicks back to level 1.

my point was that he was there to ensure he got the kick off while giving them the most time available by waiting until the very end of the music to set it off. my mistake for saying he'd kick "later". but i stand firm that HE was planned to stay there and trigger the kick himself - no timers involved.

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 10:20 PM

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452. "By timing, I mean he timed the button press lol"
In response to Reply # 451
Thu Jul-22-10 10:22 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

Not that he set a timer.

I'm pretty sure hitting the wall wasn't the first kick....it was the indicator that they were about to start the first kick(the free-fall). The second kick came from getting dunked in the water and they obviously knew when that would take place because they had calculated how long it would take the van to fall into the water from the bridge.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 02:24 PM

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379. "misread."
In response to Reply # 373
Wed Jul-21-10 02:26 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

.

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Wed Jul-21-10 02:49 PM

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382. "about limbo:"
In response to Reply # 369


  

          

>>Mal convinced herself that this(limbo) is where she wanted
>to
>>be and thus it became her reality(her stopping the totem).
>>Leo convinced himself of the same thing imo, but then after
>>however many years, realized he didn't want to be there
>>anymore.....but he obviously wasn't going to go without Mal.
>
>
>I don't think it's about convincing yourself because Saito
>also got stuck there and he seemed to be very unhappy and
>filled with regret.

i think that you need something to help you realize that you're in limbo. the quicker you see that sign, the quicker you realize you're in limbo. it's like a recent dream you can't remember, but as soon as you see something familiar to the dream, it acts like a trigger and you suddenly remember it. this happens to me all the time.

for Ariadne and Cobbs, i believe they were in limbo. Fischer was in limbo, so there's no way they'd save him unless they were there too. i think the sight of Mal as soon as they enter limbo is an immediate revelation for both of them.

for Saito, this doesn't come until he sees Cobbs and his totem. Cobbs doesn't know until Saito repeats what he told him.

as for Cobbs in the sea and unaware, i'm thinking that he was searching for him for maybe years and that his body drowning in the 2nd layer led him into the water where he was found by Saito's lackies.


>>As far as Leo and Page, imo that wasn't a true limbo.....it
>>was just Leo's representation of his limbo(he was the
>dreamer
>>in that sequence).
>
>But the whole reason they went there was to get Fischer and
>Saito, right? So it had to be true limbo or else they just
>never ended up where they needed to go.
>
>And if people got younger when they realized, wouldn't there
>have been a time when Leo grew younger while Mal stayed old?
>Wouldn't we have seen that?

the sight of young Mal and Cobbs on the tracks while it was shown that they were old wasn't to be taken literally. i believe it was eloquently done to say "we really ain't old! we in limbo, son!"


>It seems to me that the whole bit about limbo just isn't
>explained well enough and we don't even know what we can use
>as evidence because stuff like Leo and Saito talking there is
>apparently a dream of a dream (at least, the way we see the
>end of the film.) And the audience has to just make stuff up
>to explain key scenes.

i think this is why i like this movie so much. it's completely open for interpretation just like our dreams and any forms of art. while it might be considered a cop out by Nolan, here we are in this post about to hit 4X platinum.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Jul-21-10 03:54 PM

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387. "RE: about limbo:"
In response to Reply # 382


          


>i think this is why i like this movie so much. it's completely
>open for interpretation just like our dreams and any forms of
>art. while it might be considered a cop out by Nolan, here we
>are in this post about to hit 4X platinum.

This goes back to my original POV on the film - intriguing but not entertaining. I've enjoyed discussing the film more than actually watching it. I wouldn't want to sit through it again until it comes out on DVD or HBO.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Jul-27-10 01:56 AM

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491. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 369


          

>>Mal convinced herself that this(limbo) is where she wanted
>to
>>be and thus it became her reality(her stopping the totem).
>>Leo convinced himself of the same thing imo, but then after
>>however many years, realized he didn't want to be there
>>anymore.....but he obviously wasn't going to go without Mal.
>
>
>I don't think it's about convincing yourself because

it is about convincing yourself, Cobb specifically states that this is what Mal did (as she's shown locking her spinning top totem away), she was making herself believe that limbo was reality.


>Saito
>also got stuck there and he seemed to be very unhappy and
>filled with regret.

Mal and Leo willingly went there to explore the possibilities of creating a whole new reality, whereas Saito unwillingly wound up there because he died in a higher dream state without being prepared or even properly warned what would happen to him. so it's no surprise that he was unhappy and filled with regret there.

Also, creation of your own reality is what you make of it and everyone has their own response to it. At first Leo was happy and content there with Mal because he convinced himself for a time that this was the reality he wanted to accept, but he eventually lost that conviction and grew unhappy because he could no longer accept the world they created as reality. whereas Mal completely accepted it and thoroughly convinced herself of its reality and so remained perfectly happy and content to stay there forever.


  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Wed Jul-21-10 02:29 PM

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381. "RE: Couple questions"
In response to Reply # 361


  

          

>>If you look closely, their hands are still old. IMO, them
>>being young in that scene just represents them becoming
>aware
>>of who they are in reality.
>
>C'mon. Now you're just making shit up.

lol this is how i saw it too. no shit. my thoughts in real-time during the movie.


>
>>I say belief, you call it delusion.....but it all depends on
>>the eye of the beholder imo. He stops because he truly
>>believes he has dealt with his problem and resolved his
>>situation.....he took the leap of faith that is mentioned
>>throughout the movie.
>
>It's not really taking a leap of faith if you think that it's
>reality. I think the ending (if the set-up for the heist was
>reality) is more of an "Oh shit! He didn't make it out!" than
>a "He's happy to live in whatever reality as long as he's with
>his kids." The strength of a film like Memento is that Leonard
>chooses to be delusional; Cobbs doesn't seem to know that he
>is.

well, if he did know that he is, then it wouldn't have been Inception, right?

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 12:34 AM

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360. "nvm this part of what I wrote, I think I figured it out"
In response to Reply # 346
Wed Jul-21-10 12:44 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

> There are two prominent questions, that I can think of, which
>retort this interpretation, the first of which I have a
>reasonable response to. That first being the interpretation
>that limbo isn't defined by the depth of layers but rather
>whether or not you believe it is real....ie, you can be in
>limbo even on the first level if you believe it is real. So
>Leo and Mal may have only been in say the second layer of
>dreaming which is relatively stable without heavy sedation,
>thus killing themselves wakes them up. My answer to this is
>as follows: If they were in this world for 50 years and their
>kids survived/barely aged, then they must have been down deep
>enough for real time to be extremely slow. On the third level
>with the sedative Yusef was using, 10 hours = 10 years....we
>are talking about 5x that w/ their kids being relatively the
>same as they left them....that requires multiple layers of
>dreams for time to slow that much and a heavy sedative for
>those deep layers to be stable. Unless there was something
>entirely unique to the Fischer inception plan that requires
>sedation, then what other conclusion can you come to other
>than Leo being in limbo?

post 359

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 12:26 AM

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359. "Was this how you interpeted limbo:"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-21-10 12:49 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

Limbo can be reached on any level of dreaming, it does not matter how deep you are but rather if you are aware that it is a dream. Further, limbo is its own separate layer with surroundings and rate of time unique to limbo.

For some reason I previously thought that limbo did not have its own distinct properties or layer, but rather the surroundings and rate of time simply depended on the layer you became lost in.





---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 12:58 AM

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362. "RE: Was this how you interpeted limbo:"
In response to Reply # 359


          

>Limbo can be reached on any level of dreaming, it does not
>matter how deep you are but rather if you are aware that it is
>a dream. Further, limbo is its own separate layer with
>surroundings and rate of time unique to limbo.

It's a shared subconscious and the time just moves even slower (I think Leo explains this when he tells everyone they can't die or else they'll go crazy because they'll be stuck in limbo for so long.)

I don't think it matters whether you know you are dreaming or not. Saito knew he was dreaming but still went there when he died in the dream. Apparently you get your brain wiped or something when you head into limbo and think that it's the real world even though you can build shit with your mind. And we have no idea how Mal and Cobbs ended up there in the beginning; it's never explained.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Rjcc
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94964 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 01:01 AM

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363. "what you're missing about limbo is, it's not impossible to get out"
In response to Reply # 359


          

it just might take a really, really long time because your perception of time passing will be sooooo long by the time the sedative wears off in the real world and you CAN then get out, you might have forgotten that there's a real world to get back to and just be a mental 200 year old mumbling to yourself.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 01:17 AM

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365. "Right, but that's essentially the same as being lost right?"
In response to Reply # 363


  

          

If you come back but have no brain, you're basically already gone.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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HighVoltage
Member since Jan 04th 2004
16583 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 09:14 AM

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368. "but cant you just kill yourself in limbo?"
In response to Reply # 363


  

          

to wake up, regardless of how slow time is passing.

also, what if you die in the dream state, but are still heavily sedated?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.itsallthewaylive.net

www.twitter.com/allthewaylive

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 09:55 AM

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370. "If you die and are sedated, you go to limbo."
In response to Reply # 368
Wed Jul-21-10 09:57 AM by SoulHonky

          

That's the ONLY thing we know for sure about limbo. Well, that and times moves incredibly slow. Everything else might be a dream or delusion or just isn't explained (like how Mal and Leo got there in the first place.)

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 12:06 PM

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372. "I think I have an inkling of how Leo and Mal got there"
In response to Reply # 370


  

          

There are two options: Option A- they were exploring dreams within dreams and got lost within the world.....now this would, by rule of stability, require heavy sedation so when they killed themselves on the train track, they go into deeper limbo. So the entire movie is in the subconscious. I don't really believe that is true.

Option B, and this is what I believe- Leo and Mal got lost in the dreams by bringing in their own memories into the creation of the dreams. The reason I believe this is as follows: When Leo warns Ariadne not to build on memories because that is the easiest way to get lost in them, she responds by asking if that's what happened to him, and he gets extremely defensive. Further, in Leo's limbo, we see how they created exact replicas of the houses they lived in....they are using their memories to build. When you combine the fact that you have an extremely ambitious/creative dreamer in Leo who wants to explore the dream world(and remember what he says to JLG after Ariadne leaves, that she will be back because reality will not be enough for her anymore) and he, along with Mal, is creating dreams based on memories which is the easiest way to lose touch with reality.....the dream became reality, thus they entered into limbo.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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jigga
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Wed Jul-21-10 12:27 PM

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374. "Option B(ingo)"
In response to Reply # 372


  

          

>Option B, and this is what I believe- Leo and Mal got lost in
>the dreams by bringing in their own memories into the creation
>of the dreams. The reason I believe this is as follows: When
>Leo warns Ariadne not to build on memories because that is the
>easiest way to get lost in them, she responds by asking if
>that's what happened to him, and he gets extremely defensive.
>Further, in Leo's limbo, we see how they created exact
>replicas of the houses they lived in....they are using their
>memories to build. When you combine the fact that you have an
>extremely ambitious/creative dreamer in Leo who wants to
>explore the dream world(and remember what he says to JLG after
>Ariadne leaves, that she will be back because reality will not
>be enough for her anymore) and he, along with Mal, is creating
>dreams based on memories which is the easiest way to lose
>touch with reality.....the dream became reality, thus they
>entered into limbo.

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 02:15 PM

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377. "exactly how i interpreted it. however, sometimes i explore the notion..."
In response to Reply # 359


  

          

that if he's been dreaming this entire time and that since the idea of limbo is to wander aimlessly with nowhere to go, that Cobbs has been in limbo this entire time; that their escape from limbo (ran over by the train), wasn't an escape at all. it kinda ties into his dialogue before they got ran over: "You're waiting for a train. A train that will take you far away. You can't be sure where it will take you. But it doesn't matter - because we'll be together." but whatever. i have yet to see it a second time.

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 07:51 PM

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488. "What limbo is and how you get there are two different things"
In response to Reply # 359


  

          

Limbo is the state of being de-referenced from the layers/dreams above. You just drift off into the raw subconscious contents of the dreamers' minds. Remember that all the other dream spaces have been carefully designed by the architect and hosted by one of the team

You can get into limbo by dying in a dream while your body is still under heavy sedative. Your consciousness has nowhere to go because it must leave the dream where you died, but cannot physically be aroused into a higher level of consciousness because of the sedative. So you slip away into the subconscious

You could also conceivably reach limbo through other means, all it takes is to enter an unplanned dream where the scenery will be drawn entirely from the subconscious. That's why Adriatne and Cobb were able to enter Limbo without dying, and why when they got there they found it was all Cobb's architecture (the ideas for those buildings were still part of his subconscious mind). Another possible way of getting there is simply going to a deep enough level where you're stuck in the dream for so long you forget it's a dream, and thus the connection to the higher levels is lost. The only way to get out in that case is re-establishing the connections by consciously acknowledging/recalling the higher levels, like Cobb and Sieto did at the end, and Cobb got Mal to do in the past. Suicide still works to get you out, the hard part is realizing what you want to get out TO.

Time in limbo I'd say is probably infinite, unless there's some maximum the brain imposes physically. You've got the first three levels of dreams where time gets more and more stretched, but then you've got just a bottomless drop into limbo from whatever layer you happen to get de-referenced from where time may be infinitely stretched.

(the concept is easier to explain if you're familiar with various concepts of computer science like recursion, pointers, orphaned data and garbage collection. If the dreamshare was like a bank of computer memory, then the characters are operating in the memory addresses assigned to their dream/program, and in turn the memory addresses used by the dream running within the dream, etc. Usually if you die all the program data is wiped out by the computer garbage collection process, but if you're operating in some low security mode without garbage collection, then those addresses will be lost track of and the program (and characters) will just be floating about with all the other random non program data that happens to be there. Only hope is to traverse back through the pointers to the various relevant addresses and restore continuity. Mr Sieto's corporation was called COBOL, incidentally. Which is the name of a famous programming language.)

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 11:06 AM

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371. "Like the film, don't like the film, or somewhere in between, I gotta say"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

this is some awesome posting. Keep it going, y'all.

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 12:31 PM

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375. "To that end, here's Lisa Schwarzbaum, also from ew (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 371
Wed Jul-21-10 12:32 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

In response, I look forward to reading the following words: "hypocritical," "contradictory," "misguided," and whatever else you dudes feel like disagreeing with her about...


ew.com:

>'Inception,' that ending, and where critics go wrong

by Lisa Schwarzbaum

Here’s something cool coming off the first weekend of Inception: Excited moviegoers are spending a lot of time talking about Huh? and Wow! and What’s up with that ending? Here’s something less cool: Critics and bloggers and blogger-critics and readers who like to post on Internet comment boards about those same critics and bloggers are spending a lot of time trashing one another. The argument is about the early raves, and the critical backlash citing those early raves with disdain, and the reader backlash to the critical backlash, and the tyranny of aggregate scores on Rotten Tomatoes, and on and on and zzzzzz….

I wish I were dreaming this. Instead, the bickering is a waking nightmare at a time when professional movie criticism is being viewed more and more as a rude, elitist intrusion on the popular preferences of a public with greater opportunities than ever before to be your Own Best Critic and let the world in on your thoughts.

Discuss! Right now, below, discuss! In the meantime, I want to discuss three words that signal when a movie critic (professional or amateur, dead-tree publication or cyber-format) has lost his or her authority.

1. Overrated.
2. Underrated.
3. Disappointed.

None of these words has anything to do with the movie under discussion, whatever it is. (Some critics who don’t like Inception bolster their arguments by declaring that The Dark Knight, also directed by Christopher Nolan, is overrated — which begs the questions, By whom? Obviously by someone other than themselves in their finer, more rigorous judgment.) All of these words circle back to the writer, rather than the work. At the very least, they hint at a conversation the writer is having with someone that writer wants to impress, or wants to inflame, or wants to enlist as an ally or adversary. You can be sure that someone isn’t the reader.

Both “overrated” and “underrated” stink up the place with egotism. “Disappointed” and its cousin in pain and self-regard, “I’m sorry to say,” do something creepier still: The phraseology is a tip-off that the whole review is rigged. Certainly a professional or otherwise serious critic can be as excited about an upcoming movie as any civilian. She can anticipate, or doubt, or even (being human) just plain not look forward to seeing New Movie X or Y. And hype doesn’t help. No movie could possibly live up to the hype that builds not only as a result of shrewd marketing, but as a byproduct of the very same blog-and-buzz culture that makes everyone his Own Best Critic. But once in the theater seat, the critic’s job is to analyze the movie that is, not the movie that critic wants it to be. The great plus of fanboys (I use that term to embrace fangirls, too, because it sounds so hearty) at a movie is their built-in enthusiasm. Their great minus as critics is that they have more difficulty objectively analyzing what’s on the screen, rather than the movie already playing, in previews, in their imaginations.

So, back to Inception. Can we agree that those who love it aren’t brainwashed? Those who don’t like it aren’t snobs? And can we agree, too, that you won’t Google me into a gotcha! position, because you’ve discovered instances where I, too, have succumbed over the years to the vanity of using “overrated,” “underrated,” and “disappointed”? I’m only human, and dreaming of a perfect world.

__________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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Rjcc
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380. "CAN WE PLEASE SEARCH THIS FORUM FOR USE OF THESE WORDS"
In response to Reply # 375


          

cuz I detect some niggas plea copping right now who use this terminology. all. the. time.

when it suits them.

I've been calling out ____rated as a bullshit thing to say years, yall don't get to be on the fucking bandwagon now.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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al_sharp
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Fri Jul-23-10 04:02 PM

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463. "awesome."
In response to Reply # 375


  

          


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

http://twitter.com/shamelessplug
http://youlooklikecraptoday.com

  

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JungleSouljah
Member since Sep 24th 2002
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Wed Jul-21-10 02:59 PM

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383. "The second viewing shored up a few things for me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think the Cobb's ring is almost as important as the totem. Cobb always has it on when he's in the dreamworld and it's never on in reality. However at the end of the movie we never get a clear shot of his L hand/ring finger. Which to me is another indication that Nolan truly meant for the ending to be ambiguous. Although I guess you could argue that Cobb's subconscious controls whether or not the ring is on and he could still be in a dream and not have it on if he thought he was in reality.

I didn't find the dream hopping in the third act to be that confusing the first time around, but seeing it again did clear up a few things especially since I thought Browning accompanied them down to the third level or he was at least plugged in, but alas he did not. At somepoint he just disappeared.

All of the scenes in the hotel are amazing. All of them. And they get better with subsequent viewings, although I do miss the frenetic feeling you get watching several of the battles for guns the first time. That's some amazing fucking directing.

Oh and if you haven't watched the entire credits, you really should. There's no special scene at the end, the top doesn't eventually fall over, but the last minute of the credits is just spectacular. It's a small thing, but it's probably one of my favorite parts of the film.

I think I came out liking it even more. I miss the thriller aspect, because the first time around I felt like I was on the edge of my seat for most of the movie, but other than that I was glad I saw it twice.

I will say, as a response to the some of the commentary, up above, I'm confused as to how you cannot "get" the movie. I think there are multiple ways to interpret certain aspects of the film, but it seems an easy film to understand at it's base. To each their own I guess.

______________________________
PSN: RuptureMD
http://hospitalstories.wordpress.com/

The 4th Annual Residency Encampment: Where do we go from here?

All you see is crime in the source code.

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 03:26 PM

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385. "RE: The second viewing shored up a few things for me"
In response to Reply # 383


  

          

>I think the Cobb's ring is almost as important as the totem.
>Cobb always has it on when he's in the dreamworld and it's
>never on in reality. However at the end of the movie we never
>get a clear shot of his L hand/ring finger. Which to me is
>another indication that Nolan truly meant for the ending to be
>ambiguous. Although I guess you could argue that Cobb's
>subconscious controls whether or not the ring is on and he
>could still be in a dream and not have it on if he thought he
>was in reality.
>
>I didn't find the dream hopping in the third act to be that
>confusing the first time around, but seeing it again did clear
>up a few things especially since I thought Browning
>accompanied them down to the third level or he was at least
>plugged in, but alas he did not. At somepoint he just
>disappeared.

i thought the Browning they encountered was just Cillian's projection of Browning?


>All of the scenes in the hotel are amazing. All of them. And
>they get better with subsequent viewings, although I do miss
>the frenetic feeling you get watching several of the battles
>for guns the first time. That's some amazing fucking
>directing.
>
>Oh and if you haven't watched the entire credits, you really
>should. There's no special scene at the end, the top doesn't
>eventually fall over, but the last minute of the credits is
>just spectacular. It's a small thing, but it's probably one
>of my favorite parts of the film.

damn. i had to piss about 1/4 of the way through the movie, so i jetted as soon as the credits rolled.

>I think I came out liking it even more. I miss the thriller
>aspect, because the first time around I felt like I was on the
>edge of my seat for most of the movie, but other than that I
>was glad I saw it twice.
>
>I will say, as a response to the some of the commentary, up
>above, I'm confused as to how you cannot "get" the movie. I
>think there are multiple ways to interpret certain aspects of
>the film, but it seems an easy film to understand at it's
>base. To each their own I guess.

i agree.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 04:00 PM

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388. "Browning was Eams"
In response to Reply # 385


          

Whenever Browning was in the dreams, it was actually Eams pretending to be him.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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hornsby
Member since May 23rd 2002
375 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 04:13 PM

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389. "not true."
In response to Reply # 388


  

          

in the hotel, watanabe sees browning and says something like "quick costume change" thinking it's eams but really it's fischer's subconscious projection of browning.

you'll remember watanabe and eams then follow the browning projection up to the hotel room.

feelme.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 04:17 PM

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390. "Not in the hotel, that was Fischer's projection of Browning"
In response to Reply # 388


  

          

Saito approaches Browning and smirks at him and says something like, you changed again? And then you see Eeames in the back, waving off Saito and then Saito makes up some excuse.

They are using Fischer's own projection/subconscious against him.....right when Browning walks into the hotel room, Leo knocks him down and asks how Browning would be free and if he actually saw him get tortured....logically, Fischer concludes that Browning is behind it and naturally his projection of Browning molds to fit that line of thinking. JGL describes it as Fischer helping them to break into his own subconscious.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 04:31 PM

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392. "Ah, right. Forgot about that scene."
In response to Reply # 390
Wed Jul-21-10 04:32 PM by SoulHonky

          

I was wondering how he was confused by the Eams/Browning thing. Should have known that wasn't the issue at hand.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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HighVoltage
Member since Jan 04th 2004
16583 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 08:42 AM

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421. "what happens in the credits?"
In response to Reply # 383


  

          


>Oh and if you haven't watched the entire credits, you really
>should. There's no special scene at the end, the top doesn't
>eventually fall over, but the last minute of the credits is
>just spectacular. It's a small thing, but it's probably one
>of my favorite parts of the film.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.itsallthewaylive.net

www.twitter.com/allthewaylive

  

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JungleSouljah
Member since Sep 24th 2002
14987 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 01:19 PM

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429. "SPOILER"
In response to Reply # 421


  

          

Not really a spoiler but I'm sure someone would get their panties in a bunch.


About 60 seconds before the credits end, it starts playing the Edith Piaf song "Non je ne regrette rien" which translates to "No, I Regret Nothing". It's the song they used as the musical cue to coordinate the kicks on each level. It's a nice touch at the very end of the credits like Nolan's cuing a final kick for the audience. At the very end of the credits, the song slowly bleeds into the main Inception theme.


Like I said, not essential to hear/see, but it's a nice touch that really shows the thought Nolan put into this film.

______________________________
PSN: RuptureMD
http://hospitalstories.wordpress.com/

The 4th Annual Residency Encampment: Where do we go from here?

All you see is crime in the source code.

  

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rdhull
Charter member
33135 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 07:26 PM

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450. "RE: SPOILER"
In response to Reply # 429


  

          

>Not really a spoiler but I'm sure someone would get their
>panties in a bunch.
>
>
>About 60 seconds before the credits end, it starts playing the
>Edith Piaf song "Non je ne regrette rien" which translates to
>"No, I Regret Nothing". It's the song they used as the
>musical cue to coordinate the kicks on each level. It's a
>nice touch at the very end of the credits like Nolan's cuing a
>final kick for the audience. At the very end of the credits,
>the song slowly bleeds into the main Inception theme.
>
>
>Like I said, not essential to hear/see, but it's a nice touch
>that really shows the thought Nolan put into this film.


<----spins my token

  

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bleekgilliam_420
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Mon Jul-26-10 09:05 AM

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482. "oh thats dope...."
In response to Reply # 429


  

          

i would have never picked that up

---------------------------------------

http://twitter.com/malael

  

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Shelly
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15886 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 06:08 PM

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402. "Great film, great ending..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-21-10 06:08 PM by Shelly

  

          

IMO the spinner shot at the end is only significant because it MADE YOU wonder if he was in reality or not. He planted the seed of doubt in your head. Which is what the movie was all about. Some old school trick. He's in reality.

  

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rdhull
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Wed Jul-21-10 06:44 PM

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406. "RE: Great film, great ending..."
In response to Reply # 402


  

          

>IMO the spinner shot at the end is only significant because
>it MADE YOU wonder if he was in reality or not. He planted the
>seed of doubt in your head. Which is what the movie was all
>about. Some old school trick. He's in reality.

I agree as he was able to see the faces of his children as well.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 07:45 PM

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410. "Were they different ages?"
In response to Reply # 406


          

I've heard both - that it's the same kids from the dream and in the same clothes and that they were different kids and in different clothes. To me, that's the answer to everything.

If he does get to his kids in the end, then it's kind of disappointing. I mean, going to Limbo was supposed to drive you crazy but then Saito was absolutely fine. I guess you could say that Leo saved him when he went after him but it seems like the supposed dreadful stakes we were told of in the beginning had a relatively easy fix.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Rjcc
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418. "when did he say how long he'd been on the run?"
In response to Reply # 410


          

why are we supposed to believe they're different ages now?

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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xangeluvr
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Thu Jul-22-10 02:18 AM

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420. "what? how was limbo supposed to make you crazy?"
In response to Reply # 410


  

          

>I've heard both - that it's the same kids from the dream and
>in the same clothes and that they were different kids and in
>different clothes. To me, that's the answer to everything.
>
>If he does get to his kids in the end, then it's kind of
>disappointing. I mean, going to Limbo was supposed to drive
>you crazy but then Saito was absolutely fine. I guess you
>could say that Leo saved him when he went after him but it
>seems like the supposed dreadful stakes we were told of in the
>beginning had a relatively easy fix.

limbo just meant you were stuck in a dream state aka a coma.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Thu Jul-22-10 10:31 AM

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422. "Cobbs acts like he hasn't seen them in years. think about this:"
In response to Reply # 410


  

          

in dreaming, the deepest diving he did was level 2 on his assignments which wouldn't equate to much. even if he averaged couple target a week (which is highly doubtful since it seems a lot of preparation goes into raiding their target's mind), i can't see him coming even close to doubling his time in the real world.

and his boy is a toddler. that fucker should've been noticeably bigger. but then again, this just might've been an error in judgment on Nolan's part or that he wanted desperately to tie in the Cobb's memory to the ending.

BUT... BUT... we saw a scene where Cobbs dreams on his own accord. perhaps he did so often. seems like it was his drug of choice. mental crack in a can baby. THEN i'd believe it felt like years since he's seen his children.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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Shelly
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Fri Jul-23-10 01:43 PM

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459. "He went further than level 2"
In response to Reply # 422


  

          

the last assignment was on level 3. The trips he took with his wife were much deeper.


I don't think, he was away from his children that long. I would go as far as saying maybe only a month or two.



Shit happens

  

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OctavioPaz
Member since Jan 14th 2009
1521 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 06:25 PM

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404. "Anyone else think JGL is a spitting image of Heath Ledger?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

And now it sounds like he might land The Riddler role in the next Batman....

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 12:20 AM

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416. "man i swear i was thinking the same thing all movie"
In response to Reply # 404


  

          

like what the hell happened to dudes cheek bones? he looks like ledgers little brother now

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

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MadDagoNH
Member since Oct 03rd 2002
12463 posts
Thu Jul-29-10 12:56 PM

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503. "I've always thought that, going back to '10 Things I Hate About You'"
In response to Reply # 416


  

          

I would've been interested to see the two of them - had Ledger lived - of course, acting together again as brothers in some sort of dramatic film at this point of their careers.

------------------------------------------------------------------

2008-09 and 2006-07 Zeno Memorial League Champion

GONNA RISE UP, GONNA KICK A LITTLE ASS.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 06:32 PM

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405. "A very interesting question, credit to Soul Honky:"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-21-10 06:34 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

When the van falls off the bridge(the first kick that they missed), shouldn't Yusuf have woken up? He is on that level and later we see Fischer and Ariadne kick themselves out of a level (limbo) by falling off a building.....shouldn't Yusuf had been kicked out of level one?

Are we missing something or did Nolan miss something here?

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 07:14 PM

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407. "The theory I thought of on the way home:"
In response to Reply # 405
Wed Jul-21-10 07:15 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

Level 1 of a dream is already relatively stable....so when combined with a heavy sedative, it becomes extremely stable to the point where you cannot kick out until the sedative has worn off. Therefore, the rolling and falling would not act as kicks for Yusuf.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 07:36 PM

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408. "Then he wouldn't have woken up."
In response to Reply # 407


          

In the real world, the time between the first kick and the van hitting the water would have been a split-second so it's not like the sedative would have somehow worn off in between those two kicks.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 07:44 PM

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409. "Right, Yusuf kicks out with the rest of the group at a later time"
In response to Reply # 408
Wed Jul-21-10 07:49 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

The kicks provided by the van falling and hitting the water were never intended for Yusuf....we see him swim out of the van.

None of them kicked out of the first world back to reality and we don't know when or how they were planning on doing so. Regardless, just because he didn't wake up at that point, doesn't mean he would never wake up.....it just means, if my theory holds, that they all had to wait until the sedative wore off more before being able to kick out of level 1.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 07:53 PM

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411. "But didn't he wake up at the same time as all of them?"
In response to Reply # 409


          

It's hard to believe that the sedative wore off in the instant between when the van hit the wall and when it hit the water. That would have been like tenths of a second in the real world.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Jul-21-10 07:56 PM

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412. "I'm sure he would kick back to reality at the same time"
In response to Reply # 411
Wed Jul-21-10 08:06 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

There's no reason for him to stay in the first world longer than everyone else since they are all using the same sedative....but we don't know how long they waited to kick or how long they had(because they def didn't seem to be in a hurry when they got back into the first level and swam up to shore).....so I'm not sure why you are saying the sedative would have to wear off between the van hitting the wall and hitting the water.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 09:17 PM

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415. "reply 413* and 414* above."
In response to Reply # 411
Wed Jul-21-10 09:21 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

only level 3 and below needed simutaneous kicks. Yusef or Eames mentions it when Cobbs brings up the idea of Inception. getting out of level 1 requires a kick in the real world or the sedative to fade.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Jul-22-10 02:07 AM

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419. "he wasn't asleep in that level"
In response to Reply # 405


          

man you and soulhonky are collectively feeding bad information back and forth to one another to create more theories

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 12:55 PM

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424. "I know that and said as much above (Yusef is driving so obv cant be asle..."
In response to Reply # 419
Thu Jul-22-10 01:17 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

So what you're getting at is that you cannot kick yourself out of a level right? Which is exactly what I thought until Fischer Jr jumps off the building, kicks himself back to level 3 and is resuscitated by the defibrillator....and then Ariadne has to jump off the building as well? Unless they explained it and I missed it.

Also, why wouldn't have JLG kicked out of his level(since he wasn't asleep in the level) when the van started falling down? That had been the originally planned kick.....but for some reason JLG doesn't kick out even though he's only one level down.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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xangeluvr
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:42 AM

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417. "here's the real question"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

all you guys going back and forth about the "kicks" is fun to read and i don't want to give my opinion just yet because i'm going to see it again tomorrow.

anyway, heres the real question...if leo and kenny w. were the last two to wake up because leo had to save ken from limbo, then how the hell did cilian murphy not catch on to what was going on? i say this because everyone else kicked back to reality and woke up, but if leo and ken were stuck they would still have to be hooked up to the dream machine in order to share that dream, right? wouldn't cilian wake up, look over and be like "what the fuck is going on here?"

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 01:05 PM

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426. "double post"
In response to Reply # 417
Thu Jul-22-10 01:07 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 01:06 PM

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427. "From what I understand:"
In response to Reply # 417


  

          

Limbo is a collective unconscious so you wouldn't need a dream sharing machine at that point.

Also.....when you watch it, could you pay special attention to the explanation(if there is one lol) of why Fischer and Ariadne have to jump off the building in limbo.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
9984 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 01:54 PM

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434. "ok, let's break this down! "
In response to Reply # 427
Thu Jul-22-10 02:11 PM by FortifiedLive

  

          

>Limbo is a collective unconscious so you wouldn't need a
>dream sharing machine at that point.
>
>Also.....when you watch it, could you pay special attention to
>the explanation(if there is one lol) of why Fischer and
>Ariadne have to jump off the building in limbo.

level 4 isn't limbo. Cillian was hooked up to Cobbs and Ariadne to enter level 4. so how do they kick up? here:

-Cillian falls first <1st kick>
-defibrillator <2nd kick>
>>>>Cillian is back into Level 3. the reason they brought him to Level 4 was to delay his death, exactly like they did for Saito.

-Ariadne delays her jump in Level 4 <1st kick>
-to simultaneously kick with the snow fortress explosion <Ariadne's 2nd kick and the rest of the gang's 1st kick>
-which is simultaneously done with hotel elevator?<Ariadne's 3rd kick, the rest's 2nd kick>
-which is simulatneously done with the van free fall <Ariadne's 4th and the rest's 3rd, and my assumption is that Arthur is so sedated that he only wakes up when it wears off/end of song is indicative of it when sedative is worn off>
>>>>everyone is back to Level 1.

-sedative wears off
>>>>mile-high club.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 02:09 PM

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437. "post 435 lol, the simultaneous kicks info is what I needed "
In response to Reply # 434
Thu Jul-22-10 02:14 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

That is what was confusing me.....and yeh, I agree that they weren't in limbo. It was just Leo's mental representation of limbo, I don't think we see true limbo until Leo is killed in the fortress/drowned in the van(ie when he washes up on the beach).

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 04:24 PM

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445. "If you see it tomorrow, can you check out the kids and their clothing "
In response to Reply # 417


          

That's the key IMO.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-22-10 04:35 PM

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446. "yup"
In response to Reply # 445


  

          

>That's the key IMO.

If the kids are the same, we know he is still in limbo and that the sedative hadn't worn off when they killed themselves.

If kids are different, then the sedative had worn off so killing themselves brought them back to reality.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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xangeluvr
Charter member
9014 posts
Fri Jul-23-10 03:44 AM

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453. "i take this back...figured it out on second viewing"
In response to Reply # 417


  

          

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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rhymesandammo
Member since Dec 07th 2004
6366 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 03:28 PM

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442. "Why does Nolan fetishize Asian culture in so many of his films?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Esteemed author of the celebrated, double-platinum post: "Drake - Wu-Tang Forever".

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 03:38 PM

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443. "Hmmm....the ending very well may have been reality"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-22-10 03:48 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

We know the flight was coming to an end by the time Ariadne left Leo....so that also means the sedation was about to wear off. If the sedation has worn off when Leo finds Saito in limbo(and since limbo moves so extremely slows, even 1 minute in the real world gives him ample time), then getting killed WILL bring them back to reality. And remember, when he wakes up, everyone else except Saito is already awake....so the sedation had worn off on them already.

So now imo it all comes back to the kids.....if they are the same as he envisioned them, then it's a mental construction. If they are different, then it's reality.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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eldealo
Charter member
10110 posts
Thu Jul-22-10 03:39 PM

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444. "Loved this film!"
In response to Reply # 0


          


-------------------------------------------
INFIN8 Photography
http://www.infin8photography.com
http://infin8photography.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/infin8photo

  

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xangeluvr
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Fri Jul-23-10 04:01 AM

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454. "2nd viewing...yes i paid attention to the kids"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-23-10 04:29 AM by xangeluvr

  

          

ok, after the second viewing i am pretty sure that leo came back to reality. as you guys said, i also believed the kids appearances were the key to whether he came back to reality or not.

but first, as to the question i posed above, i take it back because i figured it out. i asked about if leo and ken were the last to come back why cilian wouldn't wake up on the plane and catch on to what was going on. what i was totally ignoring was the fact that they all only kicked back to the first level. the first level being the abduction/van level which means that they had to stay in that level for some time in order to get cilian on a plane. that way when cilian woke up in reality he would believe that the first level was real and in the past.

so because they were hanging out on that level for a while there was time for leo to find ken in limbo. all the while the sedation was wearing off so essentially after leo finds ken at some point everybody came to reality at the same time.

anyway, back to the kids. i will just say that i think nolan was totally fucking with the audience. i mean if the kids of the memories looked different than the kids in reality then we would know for sure that he kicked back because there is no way for him to know what they'd be wearing when he got home, right? well i'm 90% sure that nolan wanted us to keep second guessing ourselves because he had the kids wear almost identical clothes in each. that is, the girl in memories and in reality both had orange dresses and the boy had a orange and blue plaid button up. however, in reality the girl had a white shirt underneath the dress and the boy still had a orange and blue plaid shirt, but the stripe pattern was just slightly different.

furthermore, i think he came back to reality just because of the fact that the top wobbled. in the dreams every shot with the top spinning the top spins without ANY wavering.

like i said i'm pretty sure about the clothes, however, i can definitely be wrong and it will only take someone watching it again to see. in fact, i may end up catching a matinee this week with a friend so we'll see.

also, i just saw the link to dileep rao's interview. he seams to hit many of the points everyone is debating in this post.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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araQual
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Fri Jul-23-10 07:11 AM

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455. "."
In response to Reply # 454
Fri Jul-23-10 07:12 AM by araQual

  

          

.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri Jul-23-10 12:17 PM

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458. "RE: 2nd viewing...yes i paid attention to the kids"
In response to Reply # 454
Fri Jul-23-10 12:19 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

>ok, after the second viewing i am pretty sure that leo came
>back to reality. as you guys said, i also believed the kids
>appearances were the key to whether he came back to reality or
>not.

I am thinking it is definitely possible whereas before I firmly believed it was a dream.....the main reason for my wavering is because when Leo 'wakes up', JGL, Ariadne, and Fischer are all awake....which means the sedative had worn off, therefore Leo and Saito killing themselves would bring them back from limbo to reality(like it brought back Leo and Mal). But with that being said, it still all comes down to the kids.....

>but first, as to the question i posed above, i take it back
>because i figured it out. i asked about if leo and ken were
>the last to come back why cilian wouldn't wake up on the plane
>and catch on to what was going on. what i was totally ignoring
>was the fact that they all only kicked back to the first
>level. the first level being the abduction/van level which
>means that they had to stay in that level for some time in
>order to get cilian on a plane. that way when cilian woke up
>in reality he would believe that the first level was real and
>in the past.

I'm not quite so sure of this.....if he remembers the first level, then wouldn't he remember them moving him to a plane on that level? He doesn't have to believe anything was real because the idea is now in his head, that's all that matters.

>
>so because they were hanging out on that level for a while
>there was time for leo to find ken in limbo. all the while the
>sedation was wearing off so essentially after leo finds ken at
>some point everybody came to reality at the same time.

From my understanding, particularly from the fact that Leo and Mal spent 50 years in limbo without anything in reality really changing.....time slows down to an extreme extreme degree in limbo...therefore, even the the rest of the team only kicked it at level 1 for another 5 mins, that could be years of time or more in limbo.

>anyway, back to the kids. i will just say that i think nolan
>was totally fucking with the audience. i mean if the kids of
>the memories looked different than the kids in reality then we
>would know for sure that he kicked back because there is no
>way for him to know what they'd be wearing when he got home,
>right? well i'm 90% sure that nolan wanted us to keep second
>guessing ourselves because he had the kids wear almost
>identical clothes in each. that is, the girl in memories and
>in reality both had orange dresses and the boy had a orange
>and blue plaid button up. however, in reality the girl had a
>white shirt underneath the dress and the boy still had a
>orange and blue plaid shirt, but the stripe pattern was just
>slightly different.

There's no doubt about this imo.
>
>furthermore, i think he came back to reality just because of
>the fact that the top wobbled. in the dreams every shot with
>the top spinning the top spins without ANY wavering.

But if you read above, that final wobbling wasn't thrown in until the final cut.....I really feel it was just put in to add even more ambiguity.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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xangeluvr
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9014 posts
Fri Jul-23-10 03:01 PM

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460. "RE: 2nd viewing...yes i paid attention to the kids"
In response to Reply # 458


  

          


>>but first, as to the question i posed above, i take it back
>>because i figured it out. i asked about if leo and ken were
>>the last to come back why cilian wouldn't wake up on the
>plane
>>and catch on to what was going on. what i was totally
>ignoring
>>was the fact that they all only kicked back to the first
>>level. the first level being the abduction/van level which
>>means that they had to stay in that level for some time in
>>order to get cilian on a plane. that way when cilian woke up
>>in reality he would believe that the first level was real
>and
>>in the past.
>
>I'm not quite so sure of this.....if he remembers the first
>level, then wouldn't he remember them moving him to a plane on
>that level? He doesn't have to believe anything was real
>because the idea is now in his head, that's all that matters.

him remembering that they moved him to a plane is exactly what i'm talking about. at the end he's sitting with who he thinks is his uncle so it wouldn't take much for the uncle to get him on a plane. on that level which he thinks is reality he never really sees everyone elses faces.

>>so because they were hanging out on that level for a while
>>there was time for leo to find ken in limbo. all the while
>the
>>sedation was wearing off so essentially after leo finds ken
>at
>>some point everybody came to reality at the same time.
>
>From my understanding, particularly from the fact that Leo and
>Mal spent 50 years in limbo without anything in reality really
>changing.....time slows down to an extreme extreme degree in
>limbo...therefore, even the the rest of the team only kicked
>it at level 1 for another 5 mins, that could be years of time
>or more in limbo.

it was years of time that passed in limbo, saito was old as hell, remember? we don't know how long it took leo to find saito, but that would only equate to hours or minutes in reality and that's exactly the time frame we are working with in the movie so i'm not sure the point you are making.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri Jul-23-10 05:45 PM

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464. "RE: 2nd viewing...yes i paid attention to the kids"
In response to Reply # 460


  

          

>him remembering that they moved him to a plane is exactly what
>i'm talking about. at the end he's sitting with who he thinks
>is his uncle so it wouldn't take much for the uncle to get him
>on a plane. on that level which he thinks is reality he never
>really sees everyone elses faces.

So you're saying that they would put him in a plane and have it take off...so he thinks it was all reality? I'm not sure how that would work since when he wakes up, they are landing in LA and that's a 10 hour gap plus I don't think they were in sydney in level 1 so if he remembers it all, wouldn't he just be confused?. Anyways lol, my point is that it's unnecessary and doesn't matter since inception was completed.....the idea is going to be in his head regardless of if he thinks it was reality or a dream(like Mal).


>it was years of time that passed in limbo, saito was old as
>hell, remember? we don't know how long it took leo to find
>saito, but that would only equate to hours or minutes in
>reality and that's exactly the time frame we are working with
>in the movie so i'm not sure the point you are making.

We are actually saying the same thing here lol....I was more addressing the point in which you said that taking Fischer to a plane would also give Leo time to find Saito. Leo was going to have time regardless for the reason we both stated.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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araQual
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42162 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 12:47 PM

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474. "in "reality", Leo talks to TWO VERSIONS of his kids on the phone"
In response to Reply # 454


  

          

u can clearly hear young versions of his kids initially, and then u hear a MUCH older "Phillipa" on the line. that right there (along with many other reasons) tells me the "real world" he inhabits is just another layer/level. the kids clothing differences doesn't mean much in the end, or even is an effective signifier of dream V reality. the shift in age of his kids when he's on the phone to em tho? seems like a clear indication he's still in dreamland.

and yes, the top wavers, but it was spinning for a RIDICULOUS amount of time. Nolan just decided to get cute and extend it out, but that top spun WAY too long, first off. second, if we are inside Cobb's mind, and are going by his rules, and if the entire film takes place inside multiple dream levels (which means we never get a glimpse of 'reality'), then the totem also falls under Cobb's control. if he's convinced he's still dreaming, it'll spin forever. if he's absolutely convinced he's in reality, it'll waver and fall. but in the end the differentiation becomes moot cos: a)he meaningfully confronts Mal, and b)seeing his kids faces, or ALLOWING himself to see his kids faces after getting over his grief re:Mal's death, becomes a reality he wouldn't mind living in, regardless of whether or not it's real or a dream.

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 04:04 PM

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486. "don't matter how long the top spun....in dreams, it NEVER stops"
In response to Reply # 474


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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araQual
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Fri Jul-23-10 07:41 AM

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457. "goin for 2nd viewing in a couple days at the DRIVE INS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

im psyched: 1st viewing was at IMAX, 2nd will be drive ins, i've soaked in this ENTIRE thread and i got a bag o weed. EXCITEMENT ABOUNDS.

i dig everyone's take on it, however i personally think that Leo still being in a dream level is infinitely more satisfying. cos like someone mentioned earlier, he ceases to care if the top falls or doesn't. and Nolan isn't gonna let the audience have the answer that Cobb doesn't get, nor care about getting. he's with his kids and that's all he's cared about, getting home. it ends up becoming about accepting loss and moving on. but that doesn't necessarily automatically mean he has to be in reality to do so. he worked out all of his emotional n psychological baggage in the dream state, why not live out his idealised life with his kids in it as well? but again, he never finds out for sure and neither do we. and i guess in a film that sounded like it was explaining shit for half the time, it holds more emotional resonance that he'd be willing to accept a dream-state reality. he's reached some form of closure and happiness awaits. kinda reminds me of Clooney in "Solaris" (a pretty solid parallel to draw, i rekn).

also i think the concentration on the kid's clothing is blinding ppl to the unlikelihood of certain events (e.g. Saito magically clearing Cobb's name, Cobb seeing his kids @ the end in the exact same pose they were in throughout all his flashbacks). there's too many leaps of faith to believe it all comes down to children's clothing. so i'm not buying it's 'reality'. and ye the top wavers, but it WAS spinning for an inordinate amount of time. i think sumone also mentioned that in an earlier cut of the film, the final scene of the spinning top was MUCH shorter and left no ambiguity. Nolan extended to make it more interesting (which it HAS), but i'm in the "it's still a dream" camp.

i am (begrudgingly, cos im a big Nolan fan) accepting that his one drawback is some rather...stiff, ultimately unrealistic dialogue. i noticed it more n more in The Dark Knight and becos of that it was GLARINGLY noticeable in Inception. it's like no one's having a real conversation, everyone SOUNDS like they're having a convo but all they're doing is spouting expository dialogue (and in TDK it was all monologues and highfalutin speeches). it's hard to tell if it's a trademark, if it's intentional or if it's truly his biggest weakness. either way it didn't REALLY hinder my enjoyment of the film, but it does cause the film to fall short of its contemporaries (like "Dark City", "The Matrix", "The Thirteenth Floor" and afore-mentioned "Solaris"). i think the concept of inception is kinda fresh, but the themes it deals with have been universal to most quality sci fi films: the differentiation b/w real and imagined and going further and deciding if the dream is worth choosing over reality, humanity's collective struggle to figure out our own brains, venturing inwards to come to a resolution or catharsis for whatever reason, shit like that. i see all these posts about the film not providing enough grandiose stakes for us to care about (e.g. the 'saviour of mankind' shtick, which has been done to death & i bet if u saw it in Inception, u woulda groaned at), but i'm just a stoner from Australia and i was able to procure many universally sci-fi emotive responses to the film as a whole. no, the heist itself didn't matter, but it did serve as a way for Cobb to move the fuck on with his life (in watever state of consciousness he chooses to live it).

finally, this film is NOT complicated, baffling, puzzling or even CONFUSING to follow. everything is there for u to understand, the rest is just conjecture. i can name a dozen films of this ilk that are a ton more 'cerebral', but i think it was done well, it looks GORGEOUS, casting was on point (even with Wattanabes ol muttering ass), it started slow but was on a 'slow boil' vibe so things only got more n more intense as it went along, and it's get everyone TALKING (for better or worse).

ill hav further thoughts after 2nd viewing on Sunday. i realise im not saying anything too new or groundbreaking here but these are my thoughts nonetheless

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
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DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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las raises
Member since Aug 31st 2002
14982 posts
Fri Jul-23-10 03:03 PM

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"i loved this movie"


  

          

-----------------------------------------------------------------

  

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las raises
Member since Aug 31st 2002
14982 posts
Fri Jul-23-10 03:03 PM

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461. "i loved this movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-----------------------------------------------------------------

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Sat Jul-24-10 03:14 AM

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466. "I enjoyed that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I generally don't like to pay money to go into a theatre these days because I enjoy movies enough at home, but I'm happy I paid to see this one.

The group I went with all had a good chat about the movie afterwards, with opinions ranging from total enjoyment to a lot of derision over the hype around the movie.

^^^ but that's the mark of the movie's success, so is this post. I agree with stravinskian that the movie wasn't as complicated and intricate as made out. But the plot was well designed enough to draw people into making different conclusions out of the cues planted throughout the movie.

Don't know if I'll bother to watch it again at the movies. I don't think this is the kind of movie that's designed for you to figure out objectively.

  

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Voodoochilde
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Sat Jul-24-10 07:23 AM

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467. "Spoilers ... probably ... maybe ... but i dont know...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

so dont read if if you dont want spoilers....

...but i may not know what i'm talking about so they may in fact not be spoilers at all anyway....

i'm too lazy right now to read through all of the posts in this thread to see if this theory has already been posted, if it has let me know...but here goes...


the whole movie was a double reverse 'inception' (or maybe a triple, quadruple or octagnal reverse 'inception') that was actually being done ON Cobb by Cobbs father (Michael Caine character)...


there i said it...feel free to blow holes in it though cuz i'm not married to this theory yet...but its the one i'm running with now...

i've got to go to a funeral now, but i'll try to post back my reasons for this theory later...(i've actually had a few different theories since viewing this film, so i may change my mind in a few anyway....)

�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

  

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Voodoochilde
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Fri Jul-30-10 05:25 PM

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507. "RE: Spoilers ... probably ... maybe ... but i dont know...."
In response to Reply # 467


          

>so dont read if if you dont want spoilers....
>
>...but i may not know what i'm talking about so they may in
>fact not be spoilers at all anyway....
>
>i'm too lazy right now to read through all of the posts in
>this thread to see if this theory has already been posted, if
>it has let me know...but here goes...
>
>
>the whole movie was a double reverse 'inception' (or maybe a
>triple, quadruple or octagnal reverse 'inception') that was
>actually being done ON Cobb by Cobbs father (Michael Caine
>character)...
>
>
>there i said it...feel free to blow holes in it though cuz i'm
>not married to this theory yet...but its the one i'm running
>with now...
>
>i've got to go to a funeral now, but i'll try to post back my
>reasons for this theory later...(i've actually had a few
>different theories since viewing this film, so i may change my
>mind in a few anyway....)

any takers on this theory or you think its not possible? i'm semi prepared to defend it...but then again i change my mind on it daily...

�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

  

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jigga
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Fri Jul-30-10 05:42 PM

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508. "It's an interesting theory but I think we would seen more from him"
In response to Reply # 507


  

          

him being Caine had that been the case.

As it was I only recall two scenes so I never really felt he had that big an effect on Cobb even tho the come back to reality line stuck with me for awhile.

That's one of things I like most about this movie tho. So many different theories & interpretations & it's tough to shoot any of em down 100% definitively.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri Jul-30-10 05:49 PM

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509. "Same here"
In response to Reply # 508


  

          

>the come back to
>reality line stuck with me for awhile.
>

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Voodoochilde
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Mon Aug-02-10 05:58 PM

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516. "but why? (SPOILERS maybe????)"
In response to Reply # 508
Mon Aug-02-10 06:28 PM by Voodoochilde

          

>RE: It's an interesting theory but I think we would seen more from him. him being Caine had that been the case.
>

why would we need to see more of him? If nothing else with this movie the one thing ive accepted is that i need to throw out many 'rules' or expectations i might have, cuz anything could be everything or nothing at all. So in my mind, just because hes not on screen all of the time doesn't mean that he cant be pulling the strings...in fact...when i think about it, the fact that he is only on screen for a FEW moments makes me REALLY wonder why he's there at all...those few moments must be 'key' moments for something, right? They're there for a REASON. then again maybe not, but then again maybe so....

>As it was I only recall two scenes
>so I never really felt he had that big an effect on Cobb even tho the come back to
>reality line stuck with me for awhile.
>

yup...only about two scenes is all he appeared in really....but lets think about those scenes...

the first are the scenes where we learn that it was HE (Caines character) who actually TAUGHT Cobb how do do what he does in the first place and where he tells cobb to 'come back to reality'...which as you said kind of sticks with you...

and the second scene where Cobb 'allegedly' gets back to america and his kids and to 'reality'...but you obviously noticed that Cobbs kids hadnt aged even though he had apparently been gone for some period of time ...AND did you notice that Caines character had on the EXACT same clothes that he was wearing when Cobb 1st came to see him 'some time ago' in France? (back at the 1st Caine scenes)...sure, it could just be that that is simply the Caine character's most favoritest outfit EVER so he ALWAYS wears it....or maybe it could be just simple coincidence...but i dont think so....i tend to think there could be reason for that 'wardrobe consistency' on the Caine character....

...there are a few other small things that were popping into my head that lend themselves to our theory (got give part of the credit to my wife too, she and i both kinda came to this 'Caine character quadruple reverse inception' conclusion together)...but those will have to wait for now...

>That's one of things I like most about this movie tho. So many
>different theories & interpretations & it's tough to shoot any
>of em down 100% definitively.

i agree, like i said...my mind has swayed back and forth a few times, but right now i'm still not convinced that Caine isnt the 'real' Inception 'wizard of oz behind the curtain'...i'm sticking with it ...for now anywayz...

�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Tue Aug-03-10 01:19 PM

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520. "I just think Nolan would've showed another key scene to hint at it"
In response to Reply # 516


  

          

Sorta how he showed the quick glimpse of Lenny in the wheelchair as Sammy in Memento. Or at least something similar.

>>RE: It's an interesting theory but I think we would seen
>more from him. him being Caine had that been the case.
>>
>
>why would we need to see more of him? If nothing else with
>this movie the one thing ive accepted is that i need to throw
>out many 'rules' or expectations i might have, cuz anything
>could be everything or nothing at all. So in my mind, just
>because hes not on screen all of the time doesn't mean that he
>cant be pulling the strings...in fact...when i think about it,
>the fact that he is only on screen for a FEW moments makes me
>REALLY wonder why he's there at all...those few moments must
>be 'key' moments for something, right? They're there for a
>REASON. then again maybe not, but then again maybe so....

Well...Caine has convinced Nolan that he's his good luck charm ever since Batman Begins. And maybe that's the Inception right there. I guess I'd need more explanation on how he engineered the whole thing if he was Inceptor. It appears he only sets Cobb up with Juno ju know? So do you think he was using her as a tool as well?

>>As it was I only recall two scenes
>>so I never really felt he had that big an effect on Cobb even
>tho the come back to
>>reality line stuck with me for awhile.
>>
>
>yup...only about two scenes is all he appeared in
>really....but lets think about those scenes...
>
>the first are the scenes where we learn that it was HE (Caines
>character) who actually TAUGHT Cobb how do do what he does in
>the first place and where he tells cobb to 'come back to
>reality'...which as you said kind of sticks with you...
>
>and the second scene where Cobb 'allegedly' gets back to
>america and his kids and to 'reality'...but you obviously
>noticed that Cobbs kids hadnt aged even though he had
>apparently been gone for some period of time ...AND did you
>notice that Caines character had on the EXACT same clothes
>that he was wearing when Cobb 1st came to see him 'some time
>ago' in France? (back at the 1st Caine scenes)...sure, it
>could just be that that is simply the Caine character's most
>favoritest outfit EVER so he ALWAYS wears it....or maybe it
>could be just simple coincidence...but i dont think so....i
>tend to think there could be reason for that 'wardrobe
>consistency' on the Caine character....

What's the reason tho?

>...there are a few other small things that were popping into
>my head that lend themselves to our theory (got give part of
>the credit to my wife too, she and i both kinda came to this
>'Caine character quadruple reverse inception' conclusion
>together)...but those will have to wait for now...
>
>>That's one of things I like most about this movie tho. So
>many
>>different theories & interpretations & it's tough to shoot
>any
>>of em down 100% definitively.
>
>i agree, like i said...my mind has swayed back and forth a few
>times, but right now i'm still not convinced that Caine isnt
>the 'real' Inception 'wizard of oz behind the curtain'...i'm
>sticking with it ...for now anywayz...

I'll certainly be looking for more clues that back that rationale the next time I see it.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sat Jul-24-10 12:06 PM

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469. "http://i31.tinypic.com/p84jl.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i31.tinypic.com/p84jl.jpg

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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poetx
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58856 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 01:43 PM

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476. "^^^ powerful analytical psychology. and A++ memeing. would meme"
In response to Reply # 469


  

          

again.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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Calico
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24604 posts
Sat Jul-24-10 06:08 PM

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470. "it's an interesting movie..not a "heist" movie, but good"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the big job was a con....well, the whole movie was a con, but whatever

i agree with many of the criticisms listed already and i'd honestly say i've like some of his other films alot more

....my biggest problem with the movie was i didn't give a fuck about almost any of the characters and this made the movie VERY boring to me in spots....i think it's imaginative and very well done, but i didn't even really get the impression leo gave a fuck about his kids...yeah, he does the job cause he wants to get to see his kids again, but it felt like something he did on some "well they are MY kids, and i haven't seen them in a while" kinda steeze...overall i agree wit X cause the entire movie seemed like one long dream within a dream within a dream within a dream....it all fell into place so nicely and for ANY of those jobs they did to work at ALL they'd need everything to fall into place just right and they never even explained how they managed to do THAt other than the flight scene...

i agree also with folks who say you'll love this movie if you love the work of Grant "Da God" Morrison....in fact, this movie felt almost Morrison inspired...which can be a good or a bad thing depending on whom you ask...

...anyway, it's a cool movie, but seriously overhyped by many here ....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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araQual
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Sun Jul-25-10 10:28 PM

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481. "see it again. it completely turned my (albeit few) criticisms around."
In response to Reply # 470


  

          

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Jul-24-10 06:28 PM

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471. "LOL. @ y'all dumb niggas. O_E got it right the first time (spoilerz)"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-24-10 06:32 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          



In one sitting.

See what happens when you're not drinking frapppalattechino
when you watch this?

You can THINK FOR YOURSELF. Try it, and you can get shit
right the first time like the Orby Orbster.

To the movie:

It was a dream, niggers.

The whole point was about forgiving yourself. That is
what the movie is about. Everything else is irrelevant.
The moral of the story: Guilt fucks with you, and do what you
gotta do to rid of it...and its hard to get rid of.

I dig it.

Like y'all being bad posters, for example: forgive yourselves.


O_E will help.



But fa real


The inception was about making himself not feel responsible
for his wife killing herself.

We don't ACTUALLY KNOW what happened in reality. All that
shit about her killing herself because of the inception he
put in her head...we don't know if any of that is true, and
it don't matter. Its part of the trick he's playing on
himself.

The only thing we know is that in the real world, Decap feels
guilty for his wife killing herself. They coulda been stock
brokers for all we know. They could be rappers. Nobody
knows, and it don't matter.

All that technology shit could be his imagination at
work too. We have no idea if that technology actually
exists. Decaprio might've been a regular ass dude in
reality, who just felt guilty.

Notice how when Decap and wifey are talking in Limbo,
their conversation was very, very, BASIC and GENERAL.
And Decap said EMOTIONAL responses stick better than
ideaological ones. At the end, when he's talking to
wifey in limbo, they are talking about BASIC GUILT
shit.

Nothing else.

The reason why wifey keep popping up in OTHER NIGGA'S
dreams is because its ALL HIS DREAM TO BEGIN WITH.

Seriously.

That Saito nigga is just a moral instrument...him "saving"
Saito, is a means an architectural trick to make him feel
like he EARNED the right to get his "life back."


  

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osu_no_1
Member since Feb 26th 2003
9414 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 08:28 AM

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473. "think about the contrived plot, reminds me of my dreams"
In response to Reply # 471


  

          

i saw this friday night and completely agree with you. as a lucid dreamer i noticed a few things that made me think "this all seems like a dream"

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 12:03 PM

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484. "I feel you, the cathartic element is the main point "
In response to Reply # 471
Mon Jul-26-10 12:17 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

A couple cats, including myself, mentioned it above....whether the entire thing is a dream or not is ultimately irrelevant(although it's definitely fun to break down)because the fact is Leo overcomes his obstacle of self-guilt through this entire process. He spins his totem and goes to hug his kids without caring if it falls or not.....dude is where he wants to be.

Lastly, as you mentioned with the basic conversation points between Leo and Mal, she says something to the effect that 'what you believe is what matters'.....again hinting at Nolan's main point.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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araQual
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42162 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 01:04 PM

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475. "the emotion hit me harder on the 2nd viewing."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i felt more invested in Cobb's journey this time around, specially after the initial viewing i came to a bit of an understanding as to the nature of the film as a whole. it's just how Leo describes it in his interview with Film.com: it's one big therapy session >>> http://www.film.com/celebrities/leonardo-dicaprio/story/interview-leonardo-dicaprio-talks-inception/39245328

however, even after Cobb achieves catharsis, i still firmly believe we never once left his mind for the entire duration of the film. all of it, everyone and everything, was carefully orchestrated by his own brain to help deal with his feeling of guilt over losing his wife. it takes quite a fantastic, convoluted path in getting there, but in the end it boils down to Cobb confronting and acknowledging his problem(s).

post-hype, and 2 viewings in, this film just got BETTER. and i feel overcome with the urge to go for #3, which happens almost never.

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 02:58 PM

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477. "Having Ariadne and Arthur kiss is indeed convoluted "
In response to Reply # 475


  

          

Or Saito mistaking Browning for Eams, and other character moments that happen while Cobb isn't present.

>i felt more invested in Cobb's journey this time around,
>specially after the initial viewing i came to a bit of an
>understanding as to the nature of the film as a whole. it's
>just how Leo describes it in his interview with Film.com: it's
>one big therapy session >>>
>http://www.film.com/celebrities/leonardo-dicaprio/story/interview-leonardo-dicaprio-talks-inception/39245328
>
>however, even after Cobb achieves catharsis, i still firmly
>believe we never once left his mind for the entire duration of
>the film. all of it, everyone and everything, was carefully
>orchestrated by his own brain to help deal with his feeling of
>guilt over losing his wife. it takes quite a fantastic,
>convoluted path in getting there, but in the end it boils down
>to Cobb confronting and acknowledging his problem(s).
>
>post-hype, and 2 viewings in, this film just got BETTER. and i
>feel overcome with the urge to go for #3, which happens almost
>never.
>
>V.

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 05:08 PM

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480. "They could make a franchise of this. Or even better, unify it with Batma..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Inception 2 can start with them all waking up in Bruce Wayne's mansion

Best film I've seen in ages though

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
6740 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 11:01 AM

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483. "I was impressed. It worked."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I usually really dislike movies where you're supposed to be kept on edge wondering what's real and what isn't, but I think the movie actually strived to not be that way. Part of the fall out of that approach is a very very talky first hour or so where, yes, they lay out a whole lot of exposition. But at least all that explanation made it surprisingly easy to keep up when the heist was actually underway.

I just see the top thing at the end as a (kinda fun) dick move that Nolan couldn't resist throwing in there. I bet its ambiguous in his mind, too.

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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xbenzive
Charter member
3183 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 07:18 AM

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492. "Also, why did JGL leave the room?"
In response to Reply # 483


          

Knowing he might be chased.

  

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Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
3175 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:31 PM

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487. "Saw it twice, two days in a row, question"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-26-10 06:33 PM by Stringer Bell

          

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this was addressed, but how come they aren't floating in level 3 when their bodies are floating in level 2? I loved the movie but this kinda irked me.

  

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will_5198
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Mon Jul-26-10 08:13 PM

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489. "Leo's suit, shirt and tie were pimp shit"
In response to Reply # 0


          

best part of the movie

--------

  

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rdhull
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Mon Aug-02-10 10:31 PM

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517. "looking like Nolans doppleganger"
In response to Reply # 489


  

          


"Hi"-(c)Joker

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 09:24 AM

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493. "mofos STILL yammering about the mythical 'character development' concept"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-27-10 09:26 AM by The Damaja

  

          

like the film would have been so much better if Cobb had a favourite brand of cereal, a nervous tick, and his own style of smoking cigarettes. or some other banal detail you can 'latch onto' for 'emotional investment'

FOH

the entire fabric of the film was 'character development.' they're walking about the landscapes of their subconsciouses populated by projections based on their inner conflicts etc.

they climactic moments of the film are about characters resolving their relationships, in a highly original/creative way

p.s. and i've never in my life read the word 'exposition' so many times in a week. armchair eberts, jesus christ.

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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jigga
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Tue Jul-27-10 01:08 PM

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497. "The exposition & Cobb's character development was well done."
In response to Reply # 493


  

          

It all comes back to lucid dreaming & how Cobb was creating this world for himself along the way to fulfillment. It gets better with repeated viewings as well.

  

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araQual
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Tue Jul-27-10 01:13 PM

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498. "it SO does. "
In response to Reply # 497


  

          

viewing #1 and viewing #2 were COMPLETELY different experiences for me. the first time i really liked it, but didn't love it. second time i just flat-out fell in LOVE with it. the beauty of it, the pain of it, and the sheer audacity of it to even exist as a film. i'm bout ready to go for #3 this wknd.

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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Melanism
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Tue Jul-27-10 01:45 PM

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499. "The Secret of the Inception Score"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.avclub.com/articles/great-job-internet-the-secret-of-the-inception-sou,43518/

-------------------
<---YOU OUT!

http://blog.melanism.com
http://twitter.com/Melanism
http://seanlovesthis.tumblr.com
http://www.formspring.me/seanathan
http://www.last.fm/user/Melanism
http://www.flickr.com/photos/meldotcom/

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 03:00 PM

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500. "Jungle Souljah mentioned that above this makes it more noticeable"
In response to Reply # 499


  

          

Good shit

  

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dba_BAD
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Fri Jul-30-10 08:52 AM

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506. "dumb and enjoyable n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

n/m

__

fairweather

  

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Quinn
Member since Jul 20th 2010
304 posts
Sat Jul-31-10 03:43 PM

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510. "Hmm..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Is there any chance that Cobb's Dad was performing Inception on him the whole time?

Lol...

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2553 posts
Sat Jul-31-10 06:44 PM

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511. "RE: Awesome, Awesome, Awesome"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I plan on seeing it again.

  

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sfMatt
Member since Jun 20th 2002
10383 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 12:39 AM

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512. "I HATED"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

DeCaprio in this movie.
And I don't think I usually feel that way about his acting.

I thought he was honestly dreadful.


The one question I have is -
How does Saito actually know Cobb fulfilled his obligation? He's not actually "there" to see "the inception" as it were. So basically Saito has to take Cobb's word?

Just throw that on top of the "reasons this must have *all* been a dream" pile, I guess.


I didn't really think much of the film.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 12:23 PM

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513. "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLUf7iOP0_c"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLUf7iOP0_c

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

http://thepunannydiaries.com

also on Facebook

  

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araQual
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42162 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 10:33 PM

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514. "went for viewing #3 last nite and the film got even better"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

repeat viewings are highly rewarding.

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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xangeluvr
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9014 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 10:06 AM

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515. "lots of people agree cuz its still #1"
In response to Reply # 514


  

          

Inception is still killing it at the box office. i'll probably catch a matinee one of these days for viewing #3.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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araQual
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42162 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 11:51 PM

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518. "im 99% certain Mal's father is pulling the strings"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cobb himself is the subject of the inception, not Fischer. at the end when the top keeps spinning and spinning, the one he forgot about cos he saw his kids, he'll come back to it eventually and see it spinning and have the same reaction Mal did (when Cobb placed the top inside her safe) and possibly surrender to the idea/fact that he's still dreaming. which is fucking COOL lol. the idea is seeded by his own subconscious, through his less-than-adequate projection/shade of Mal while they're conversating in limbo. same way the projection of Browning (combined with Eames' forgery) naturally seeds ideas of breaking up his father's company and becoming his own man inside Fischer.

fack i love this movie lol. im at the stage where i have to restrain myself from going to see it a 4th time. its guna be overkill, but each subsequent viewing has been so rewarding its hard to stay away. anyone know when the DVD will be out? lol.

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts
Tue Aug-03-10 10:50 AM

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519. "Why do people keep misinterpreting this! Argh"
In response to Reply # 518


  

          

Inception happens when they plant an idea inside a safe inside a dream (rather than extracting one. And it has to be several dreams deep and put there by the subject her/himself).

Fischer was incepted because he opened that big ass vault and then the safe within, which his mind had subconsciously filled with the idea, because it had been previously influenced by suggestion. Mal was incepted because she had tampered with her own subconscious by leaving the top in a safe to forget about it. All Dom had to do was start the top spinning again, which was like flipping a switch in her subconscious - and unfortunately this idea could not be challenged even in the layers above or in reality. (nothing to do with Mal actually SEEING the top spinning again, which of course if wouldn't once she woke up)

While Dom does have a life changing experience in the dream, there was no safe involved, inception wasn't performed on him, he merely confronted and overcame his psychological problems. Ariadne just helps a little. That's what characters in films generally do.

The top spins at the end so that the audience find a more meaningful reason for believing he was in realty, rather than just cos the director said so. The reason of course is that he knows his children are real, they're his anchor to reality and the important part of his life. If they weren't real, then he could just opt to be with his imaginary wife instead. Or be with them all.

If the end isn't real then there's another level up, or more,, in which case it's all a dream and nothing at all needs to remain consistent, all the films internal logic goes out the window. Which sucks. And if it was part of some grand plan by his father then Ariadne did a real good job not letting on that she was part of it - too good in fact. From her acting it's obvious that she's new to this.

There's some red herrings of sort In the film, basically in reality he's having trouble 'facing up to reality' and the filmmaking reflects this by making some things dreamlike like the narrow escape from the COBOL goons. But the film is resolved at the end cause he's come back to reality in the not-dreaming sense and the sense that his father used near the start. Positive emotion trumps negative everytime.

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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