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Subject: "The Big Fat Graphic Novel Post" This topic is locked.
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buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 01:58 AM

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"The Big Fat Graphic Novel Post"


  

          

I wanna talk about graphic novels. Yeah, all of them.

Let's keep the introductions short and sweet and get down with the get down. Post a title and author of a Graphic Novel you've read (or would like to know more about), and discuss. Likes and dislikes. Questions and comments. Concerns and misgivings.

Noteworthy Items:
It will probably be in our best interests to keep the definition of "graphic novel" as loose as possible. OGN's, Trade Paperbacks, Serials, you name it. I'm talking about extended sequential art narratives here. Hell, I suppose the very definition of 'graphic novel' is up for debate, too.

Now, personally I'm gonna try to steer clear of the superhero stuff for the most part, but that in no way means that the superhero stuff is invalid. I just feel like giving the 'other' stuff some shine for a minute. Yes, I'm getting my comic snob on.

So with a Frapallottamochachino in one hand, and a tattered copy of "Uncle Spanky's Barnyard Fun Comix #4" (1932, Top Notch Comics, Inc., 'Very Fine' Condition), I wish you all a pleasant posting experience.

Let's do this.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
A Contract with God (Eisner, 1978)
Jan 04th 2006
1
RE: A Contract with God (Eisner, 1978)
Jan 04th 2006
2
Maus (Spiegelman, 1986)
Jan 04th 2006
3
RE: Maus (Spiegelman, 1986)
Jan 04th 2006
8
RE: Maus (Spiegelman, 1986)
Aug 03rd 2006
116
Has it aged well?
Jan 04th 2006
65
      I think it's aged fine
Jan 05th 2006
73
Blankets (Thompson, 2003)
Jan 04th 2006
4
You know how I feel about this one
Jan 04th 2006
16
wait until you read Chunky Rice
Jan 04th 2006
27
RE: Blankets (Thompson, 2003)
Aug 03rd 2006
115
Jimmy Corrigan, the Smartest Kid on Earth (Ware, 2000)
Jan 04th 2006
5
I like it quite a bit
Jan 04th 2006
7
      the awkward moments are wonderful
Jan 04th 2006
9
           I felt like I wasn't understanding it
Jan 04th 2006
13
The Cartoon History of the Universe (Gonick, 1977)
Jan 04th 2006
6
brilliant
Jan 04th 2006
21
I've only read the first couple installments
Jan 04th 2006
28
Now that I'm older, I can see that Gonick espoused a lot of...
Jan 04th 2006
45
      i'm saying. that mana musa/renaissance connection was ill
Jan 04th 2006
58
up
Jan 04th 2006
10
Ghost World (Clowes, 1997)
Jan 04th 2006
11
RE: Ghost World (Clowes, 1997)
Jan 04th 2006
15
Good-Bye, Chunky Rice (Thompson, 1999)
Jan 04th 2006
12
RE: Good-Bye, Chunky Rice (Thompson, 1999)
Jan 04th 2006
42
      RE: Good-Bye, Chunky Rice (Thompson, 1999)
Jan 04th 2006
48
      RE: Good-Bye, Chunky Rice (Thompson, 1999)
Aug 03rd 2006
117
Like a Velvet Revolver Cast In Iron (Clowes, ????)
Jan 04th 2006
14
I have no idea what happened in this story
Jan 04th 2006
17
      it's the sequential art equivalent of a David Lynch film.
Jan 04th 2006
19
      You and me both
Jan 04th 2006
20
Black Hole (Burns, 1995-2004, 2005)
Jan 04th 2006
18
2411 (?) by Ted Krall (?)
Jan 04th 2006
22
The Devil's Footprints (I don't remember the author)
Jan 04th 2006
23
BONE, baby
Jan 04th 2006
24
I have BONE blueballs
Jan 04th 2006
25
i started reading BONE when it started
Jan 04th 2006
68
      it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a movie out of Bone.
Feb 15th 2006
81
           yea, you know what i'm sayin.
Jul 31st 2006
114
The Death of Captain Marvel
Jan 04th 2006
26
Watchmen (Moore and Gibbons, 1986)
Jan 04th 2006
29
what's left to be said?
Jan 04th 2006
57
One question that's been bugging me (spoiler):
Jan 04th 2006
64
20 years later, and they're still stealing from this book
Jul 04th 2006
95
basically you can read Watchmen every two years
Jul 04th 2006
96
Moore created a whole damn alternate-universe
Jul 31st 2006
103
Ice Haven (Clowes, 2005)
Jan 04th 2006
30
too fucking expensive
Jan 04th 2006
46
      Here in the states we have these things called libraries
Jan 04th 2006
50
Eightball #23 - The Death Ray (Clowes, 2004)
Jan 04th 2006
31
Liked it a lot better the second time through
Jan 04th 2006
43
The Originals (Gibbons, 2004)
Jan 04th 2006
32
RE: The Originals (Gibbons, 2004)
Jan 04th 2006
33
I quite liked this one
Jan 04th 2006
34
yeah, I really dug the world he created
Jan 04th 2006
37
      I think a similar take on late '70s culture
Jan 04th 2006
41
RE: The Originals (Gibbons, 2004)
Jan 04th 2006
55
Epileptic (Beauchard, 2003)
Jan 04th 2006
35
I hate it
Jan 06th 2006
77
Cages, by Dave McKean
Jan 04th 2006
36
I read this before I started in on Sandman
Jan 04th 2006
39
      McKean needs to stick with Gaiman.
Jan 04th 2006
51
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken (Seth, 2003)
Jan 04th 2006
38
I love Seth's linework
Jan 04th 2006
47
Tricked (Robinson, 2005)
Jan 04th 2006
40
Behind the Music meets Robert Altman
Jan 04th 2006
44
Kabuki: Circle of Blood (David Mack, 1995?)
Jan 04th 2006
49
Stuck Rubber Baby (Cruse, 1995)
Jan 04th 2006
52
anyone read this?
Feb 16th 2006
84
Understanding Comics (McCloud, 1994)
Jan 04th 2006
53
I've always loved comics... and this book explained to me why
Jan 05th 2006
72
Wimbledon Green (Seth, 2005)
Jan 04th 2006
54
Drags for a while, then gets really good
Jan 04th 2006
56
Fuck you Wimbledon Green!
Jan 06th 2006
75
      that book might have the greatest chase scene ever
Feb 16th 2006
85
           yeah
Feb 16th 2006
86
Sock Monkey (Millionaire, 2000)
Jan 04th 2006
59
Get drunk and read it to your kids
Jan 04th 2006
62
Summer Blonde (Tomine, 2003)
Jan 04th 2006
60
great read
Jan 04th 2006
63
sanctuary (1993?)
Jan 04th 2006
61
Palomar (Hernandez, 2003)
Jan 04th 2006
66
how does this one relate to Locas?
Feb 15th 2006
79
The Quitter (Pekar, 2005)
Jan 04th 2006
67
Ronin (Miller, '82)
Jan 05th 2006
69
The art is incredibly horrible in that one
Jan 06th 2006
76
      I just read this for the first time, and it hasn't aged well
Jul 04th 2006
94
Superman: Redson
Jan 05th 2006
70
Best ending... ever?
Jan 05th 2006
71
      Speaking of Elseworlds, I started True Brit this morning.
Jan 05th 2006
74
      EASILY. Lemme tell you a quick story,
Feb 15th 2006
82
           RE: EASILY. Lemme tell you a quick story,
Jul 05th 2006
99
Sleepwalk and Other Stories (Tomine)
Feb 15th 2006
78
since it hasn't been posted yet: Sandman
Feb 15th 2006
80
My library's missing that one
Feb 16th 2006
87
Box Office Poison (Robinson, 2001)
Feb 16th 2006
83
okay, finished.
Feb 24th 2006
88
...up?
Jul 04th 2006
89
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Volumes 1 and 2
Jul 04th 2006
90
Both are great
Jul 04th 2006
91
      Yea, Hyde was the star of the show in 2...
Jul 04th 2006
92
           His scene with the Invisible Man is disturbingly classic
Jul 04th 2006
93
                Yup.
Jul 05th 2006
98
Deogratias, A Tale of Rwanda
Jul 05th 2006
97
akira (otomo, 1982-1989?)
Jul 31st 2006
100
I don't know much about this one
Jul 31st 2006
101
      you can watch the movie and not know much about the story...
Jul 31st 2006
104
           that all depends for me
Jul 31st 2006
106
           I think I may be able to answer this...
Jul 31st 2006
107
                thanks. that's really insightful
Jul 31st 2006
109
                That's just one aspect of the story...
Jul 31st 2006
110
                Biker gangs are an active and present part of youth culture
Jul 31st 2006
111
                     RE: Biker gangs are an active and present part of youth culture
Jul 31st 2006
112
                          I don't know
Jul 31st 2006
113
Night Fisher by R Kikuo Johnson
Jul 31st 2006
102
whats the verdict on cerebus?
Jul 31st 2006
105
i think it's spectacular... most of the time
Jul 31st 2006
108

buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 02:00 AM

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1. "A Contract with God (Eisner, 1978)"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-04-06 02:04 AM by buckshot defunct

  

          

.

  

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buckshot defunct
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2. "RE: A Contract with God (Eisner, 1978)"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Why not start with the work that is (mistakingly?) cited as the first Graphic Novel ever. I have mixed feelings on this one.

Things I love: Eisner's artwork (naturally)... Out of all the legacies he left behind (and there were many) I think my personal favorites are the contributions he made to typography in comics. He really blurred the lines between words and images, and birthed a more "complete" approach to the artform. And, you gotta respect 'A Contract with God' for its historical significance, if nothing else. Actually, I do like a couple of the stories here. They're kind of neat in a Looney Tunes meets Sin City sort of way.

Things I don't love so much: All right, as forward thinking as this book may have been *for comics*... it wasn't like Citizen Kane or Metropolis or something. This shit came out in 1978. I can only overlook so many faults. I admire the 'blue collar hero' approach Eisner took with his Spirit work. But his reach kinda exceeds his grasp on this one, and although I wasn't alive in '78, I find it hard to believe that this was ever biting or relevant social commentary. Then again, maybe that wasn't his intent. After all, the stories are kind of set in the 1930s. I think his main goal with this book was to approach comics as an *art*, and he did just that. So I can't really knock his hustle.

That leads me to my main beef with this book, and it really has nothing to do with the book itself- It really kicked off this "Graphic Novel" thing, along with the idea that comics could be art (GOOD!), but only when they tackle subjects such as wife beating, child molesting, dog poisoning, etc. (BAD!) This book raised the bar for comics as well as comic snobbery.

But overall it's a small price to pay for all the good it did for the medium.

  

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buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 02:07 AM

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3. "Maus (Spiegelman, 1986)"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-04-06 02:08 AM by buckshot defunct

  

          

(Forgive me in advance, I'm probably gonna mess up on dates here and there)

  

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buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 02:26 AM

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8. "RE: Maus (Spiegelman, 1986)"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

The Holocaust. A true skidmark on the underpants of human history. Also, one of the quickest ways to a book critic's heart!

Am I saying that critically acclaimed, Top 10 List Making, Pulitzer Award Winning Graphic Novel 'Maus' is overrated? Not really. The art isn't particularly strong, and as someone who is easily riveted by Holocaust stories, I wasn't super-riveted with the Father's holocaust story... But that's not Maus's fault. By the time graphic novels came around, all the good Holocaust stories were pretty much taken.

What did resonate with me on a personal level was the Father-Son relationship, and just the honesty of it all. The art is kind of rough around the edges, but then so are the characters. Just because you've been through Hell and back doesn't make you a Saint. And it doesn't necessarily make the rest of your life peaches and cream, either. It was a very mature, somewhat alarming approach to what could have been a flat, dare I say it, "cartoony" characterization.

I give Maus its props.

  

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Saadiq
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Thu Aug-03-06 09:32 AM

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116. "RE: Maus (Spiegelman, 1986)"
In response to Reply # 8


          

I love this book and would have to agree with you that the father-son relationship is the strongest hook that this film has!

I think that the drawings are rough around the edges and quite sketchy looking which could put off a lot of people, but i feel that helps draw more attention to the emotional side of the story, which in my opinion is very strong!

http://twitter.com/haroonharry

  

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Michi
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1391 posts
Wed Jan-04-06 07:23 PM

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65. "Has it aged well?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

I think the Father-Son dynamic adds more to the book, but overall it was a good work. For its time it was groundbreaking, but it doesn't stand up to graphic novels nowadays.

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Thu Jan-05-06 01:56 PM

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73. "I think it's aged fine"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

In the sense that nothing in the story really dates it, or that there's some sort of idea or approach in Maus that no longer holds up. I read it several years after it came out, and it was just fine. A lot of people might have gone ga-ga over Maus simply because it was a comic book tackling a 'serious' issue... pretty much still a novelty in 1986. But even now, when 'serious comics' are old hat, Maus still has a pretty good story to tell, I think.

Now it's true that at one time it may have been the benchmark for graphic novels, and it has since been surpassed... but I dunno if that's exactly the same thing as it "not aging well". That's just natural evolution in the medium.

And as young as graphic novels are, who knows what we'll think of stuff like 'Blankets' and 'Jimmy Corrigan' in the next 20-30 years?

  

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buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 02:11 AM

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4. "Blankets (Thompson, 2003)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Let's get emo

  

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lonesome_d
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Wed Jan-04-06 10:46 AM

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16. "You know how I feel about this one"
In response to Reply # 4


          

probably the book that's had the greatest emotional effect on me (aside from Education of Little Tree.)

I almost hate to say it, but the artwork is charming in the same way Calvin & Hobbes was... it's unassuming but packs it in where it counts. And the way the story is told - charmingly - ah screw it, I think 'charming' is the perfect way to describe this book.

  

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buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 11:48 AM

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27. "wait until you read Chunky Rice"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

It's so charming, you'll puke.

I do think that Blankets goes beyond charming, but I hear what you are saying. The playful fluidity of Thompson's brushwork is pretty reminiscent of Watterson's stuff. Can't say I really noticed that before. Good catch.

I loved Blankets, though. Definitely one of the better GN reads I've had in a while. I dunno if it's a guy thing, or an age thing, but I just found a whole lot in this story I could relate to, even though I was never very much like Craig's character in the book. But he's really good at capturing those basic emotions we've all felt at one time or another. But where "Goodbye Chunky Rice" excels at just capturing one basic idea or emotion, "Blankets" just as a lot more breadth to it.

And all that 'coming of age', 'first love' stuff aside, much to my surprise I really dug the religious aspects of the book as well. My only apprehensions were towards the earlier chapters, with the 'cubby hole' and the hints of child molestation. I understand that these are real-life situations and all, but I guess I'm overly sensitive to certain subjects as they come off as "book critic bait" a lot of the time. But as "Blankets" progressed, I realized that all of that was necessary to explain why young Craig felt so detached from himself, why he felt like his was just sort of 'passing through' life, and why he was unable to see the earthly divinity that surrounded him. Which is exactly what made all the Raina/Goddess imagery work so well. She sort of connected him back to himself.

And unlike, say, "Jimmy Corrigan", I felt like all the groovy experimental stuff worked only to enhance the story or communicate some underlying theme, rather than for the sake of being quirky.

I dunno, I thought it was really ambitious. And better yet, I think he pulled it off, too.

  

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Saadiq
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Thu Aug-03-06 09:30 AM

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115. "RE: Blankets (Thompson, 2003)"
In response to Reply # 4


          

it's hands down my favourite graphic novel that i've read. Emotionally it has such a strong effect on me. and i love the simplicity with which Craig Thompson sketches. Can't wait for his new book Habibi!

http://twitter.com/haroonharry

  

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buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 02:12 AM

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5. "Jimmy Corrigan, the Smartest Kid on Earth (Ware, 2000)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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DrNO
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Wed Jan-04-06 02:24 AM

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7. "I like it quite a bit"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

but the pace is a little too slow, otherwise it's kind of brilliant.
I love the little awkward moments.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 02:35 AM

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9. "the awkward moments are wonderful"
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Jan-04-06 02:38 AM by buckshot defunct

  

          

And this book seems to be kind of hilarious and heartbreaking all at once.

And yeah, Chris Ware is pretty much a goddamn genius, and I love his approach to comic design. He makes beautiful books. His ACME Novelty Library stuff is certainly no exception.

BUT--

Given his design background, I'm a little surprised the way he puts form before function a lot of the time. I found Jimmy Corrigan to be a superb read, despite the fact that at times the narrative is weighed down by the art's little quirks. Not to sound like an old stick in the mud, but I kind of prefer an approach that places the story first. Sometimes I felt like the story was taking a backseat to Ware just showing us how much ass he kicks.

And yeah, the pace is a bit slow. But in this weird, frenetic way. They story isn't really *going* anywhere, so far as you can tell, but the art is going apeshit all over the place. It's all the panels I think. It's quite maddening at times. This book is like the comic equivalent to Coltrane's 'Ascension'.

It blows my mind that so many non-comic readers have warmed to this novel, because I've been reading comics damn near my whole life and I wasn't sure how to read this thing at first!

It's in my Personal Top 10, I think.

  

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lonesome_d
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Wed Jan-04-06 10:41 AM

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13. "I felt like I wasn't understanding it"
In response to Reply # 9


          

for at least the first half of the book. 'No, I have to be missing something.'

And being primarily a story guy rather than an art/design guy, once I did catch onto it and realized like you said it wasn't really going anywhere... i dunno. I mean, I enjoyed reading the book, but thought it was as frustrating as it was rewarding.

  

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buckshot defunct
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6. "The Cartoon History of the Universe (Gonick, 1977)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
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Wed Jan-04-06 11:18 AM

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21. "brilliant"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

the series is amazing. it single-handedly sparked my love affair with ancient history. i can't even begin to count the number of historical books i've read because of larry gonick

the only complaint i have is the shocking drop in the quality of the drawings at the end of the first CHOTU (vol. 8?) and its continuation into the subsequent books. but i guess it's a little unreasonable to expect the artwork to sustain that level of drawing excellence over 1000+ pages

  

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buckshot defunct
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Wed Jan-04-06 11:55 AM

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28. "I've only read the first couple installments"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

My Grandma bought the first one for me as a Christmas gift long, long ago. I believe it was the first time I had ever seen a comic book with naughty bits. Primordial salamander creatures getting it on, barebreasted cavewomen running amock... it was all quite scandalous to my tiny little mind.

But yeah, these are great books. I can enjoy them now just as I did back then. Humorous, well drawn, efficient little primers on world history. A great tool for getting youngsters interested in the subject. Although these days, they probably have X-Box games and crap for all that.

  

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stylez dainty
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Wed Jan-04-06 12:53 PM

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45. "Now that I'm older, I can see that Gonick espoused a lot of..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

...controversial and little-heard angles on the history he was documenting. I'm old with reasonably smart-ish associates, and I can still come off every once in a while as a conversational bad-ass thanks to those books.

Also, perhaps my GOAT bathroom book.

And the artwork drop-off was disappointing, but understandable. Except for the United States book. The art quality for that one was borderline unacceptable.

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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bearfield
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Wed Jan-04-06 02:27 PM

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58. "i'm saying. that mana musa/renaissance connection was ill"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Wed Jan-04-06 09:42 AM

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10. "up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'll chip in a bit later

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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buckshot defunct
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11. "Ghost World (Clowes, 1997)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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buckshot defunct
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15. "RE: Ghost World (Clowes, 1997)"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I read this for the first time earlier last year, and it pretty much made me a Clowes fan for life and re-ignited my interest in graphic novels altogether. Not sure where to start. Clowes' artwork is clean and polished, almost to the point of being clinical. That along with the monochromatic color scheme really give this book a sense of emptiness and melancholy right off the bat. You know that this book isn't gonna end on a happy note, but the characters are all so fun and fascinating that you just sort of decide that any time spent with them is worth a little heartache.

I guess you'd call it a 'character piece,' which is generally just a nice, artsy fartsy way of saying 'nothing happens.' How a middle aged man was so able to write 2 high school girls in such a three dimensional, complex manner is beyond me. Come to think of it, I don't *want* to know how he did it.

Highlights for me include Bob Skeetes, the Satan Worshipping couple, and of course, the 'Weird Al' scene in the horrible 50's diner. Also, when they answer that 'Bearded Windbreaker' guy's personal ad, I felt sick to my stomach. That shit crossed the line. These characters had become so real to me that I was actually disappointed in them.

A nice little coming of age story and analysis of suburbia & the art of people watching. One of my personal faves.

  

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buckshot defunct
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12. " Good-Bye, Chunky Rice (Thompson, 1999)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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buckshot defunct
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42. "RE: Good-Bye, Chunky Rice (Thompson, 1999)"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Cute as shit, first and foremost.

I mean, it goes deeper than that. But come on... a mouse and a turtle riding a trike together? That's fucking cute and you know it.

I guess this is more of a 'graphic novella'. It's kind of a graphic poem, really. I thought it did some pretty amazing things with panel and page layouts.

  

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DeadMike
Member since Jan 28th 2005
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48. "RE: Good-Bye, Chunky Rice (Thompson, 1999)"
In response to Reply # 42


          

I really liked Good-Bye Chunky Rice. Although I liked Blankets better but they're two totally different stories. Craig Thompson is the man.

  

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Saadiq
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117. "RE: Good-Bye, Chunky Rice (Thompson, 1999)"
In response to Reply # 42


          

yeah, i agree, the story and graphic novel and it's art work are cute as shit, and i love it.

cute is good!

http://twitter.com/haroonharry

  

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lonesome_d
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14. "Like a Velvet Revolver Cast In Iron (Clowes, ????)"
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lonesome_d
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17. "I have no idea what happened in this story"
In response to Reply # 14


          

though I loved the fact that during what appeared to be the filming of a snuff flick, there was a guy strolling around with a guitar singing Barb'ry Allen.

The slug chick with the eggs grossed me out.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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19. "it's the sequential art equivalent of a David Lynch film."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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buckshot defunct
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20. "You and me both"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

I like it, probably just because I like Clowes. He's just got a voice that resonates with me, I guess. I think of this book as a pretty interesting stream of consciousness type comic experiment, but beyond that it doesn't do a whole lot for me.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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18. "Black Hole (Burns, 1995-2004, 2005)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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lonesome_d
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22. "2411 (?) by Ted Krall (?)"
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meh

  

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lonesome_d
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23. "The Devil's Footprints (I don't remember the author)"
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(and it wasn't worth remembering the author)

  

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lonesome_d
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24. "BONE, baby"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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lonesome_d
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25. "I have BONE blueballs"
In response to Reply # 24


          

My library has every volume EXCEPT THE LAST ONE.

Aaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhh.

  

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duD
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68. "i started reading BONE when it started"
In response to Reply # 24


          

i wish i still had the first issues

but i decided that it was just too much effort to keep up with it every month and i'd just pick it up in trade.

eight years later, it finally came out and i read all 1000+ pages in one sitting.

i never saw the story developing into a war story from the beginning.


i always got a Bill Watterson/ calvin and hobbes vibe from the artwork. While the Bones looked so cartoonish, the rest of the drawings wereso realistic, but it all fit together flawlessly.


I'm just waiting for them to make it into a movie (animated of course).

  

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Invisiblist
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81. "it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a movie out of Bone."
In response to Reply # 68


          

completely impossible and pointless to even try.

It should actually be a prime-time animated miniseries, or even a two-or-three year series in general.

  

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duD
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114. "yea, you know what i'm sayin."
In response to Reply # 81


          

  

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Marbles
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26. "The Death of Captain Marvel"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


This was the first time I saw a super-hero die of a normal, everyday, non-violent cause.

Like a shaken Spider-Man said (paraphrasing), he's supposed to die from guns or bombs or some villains master-plan.

Peace,

*** MARBLES ***

  

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buckshot defunct
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29. "Watchmen (Moore and Gibbons, 1986)"
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Right, like we weren't gonna talk about Watchmen.

  

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buckshot defunct
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57. "what's left to be said?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

It's insane to me how well structured this book is.

  

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lonesome_d
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64. "One question that's been bugging me (spoiler):"
In response to Reply # 57


          

why at the end did Dan and Laurie have to assume fake identities?

  

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mrhood75
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95. "20 years later, and they're still stealing from this book"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

Both "Infinite Crisis" and "Civil War" both borrow HEAVILY from the themes that Moore explored in this book. And he managed to outdo both of them. Yeah, I know "Civil War" has just begun, but does anyone actually think when it's all said and done, and it will be written or have nearly the impact as "Watchmen"? I didn't think so.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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will_5198
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96. "basically you can read Watchmen every two years"
In response to Reply # 29


          

and it will never get stale

--------

  

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tappenzee
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103. "Moore created a whole damn alternate-universe"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

Backstories were beautifully insterted in the news clips, samples of biographies, confidential files, etc. between the live action.

Then you have the whole subtext and parallel commentary with the Pirate story the kid was reading

Great use of the cold war as a backdrop for everything

There's so much to be said about this story, it's ridiculous

I wonder if the rumors of a movie will do this justice?

  

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buckshot defunct
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30. "Ice Haven (Clowes, 2005)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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DrNO
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46. "too fucking expensive"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

that's how i feel about it

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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buckshot defunct
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50. "Here in the states we have these things called libraries"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Actually I live in the south so I'm not even allowed to make jokes like that. I did get Ice Haven for cheap though. I highly recommend Amazon's "Buy Used" feature.

I really liked this one. In fact I'd say that it's right behind Ghost World in terms of favorite Clowes GNs. I thought it was pretty damn inventive the way he used a Sunday-style newspaper strip format to string together this larger narrative. I guess 'Jimmy Corrigan' employs a similar method, but Ice Haven sort of took this device to the next level.

I love the characters that Clowes constructs, and this book is packed with characters, each one kookier than the last. It ends with one of those bizarre Clowes non-endings, as do pretty much all his books as far as I can tell.

I can't really think of much bad to say about it.

  

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buckshot defunct
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31. "Eightball #23 - The Death Ray (Clowes, 2004)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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buckshot defunct
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43. "Liked it a lot better the second time through"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

First time I read this thing, I was a little let down. I guess I was kind of expecting Clowes to lampoon the superhero genre... which looking back was a really silly expectation to have. It's pretty clear that the guy has little to no interest in writing about superheroes, even if it is to skewer them.

Read it again several months later and I really dug it. It's very dark. Quite depressing actually. Not my favorite Clowes book, but probably his best looking.

  

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buckshot defunct
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32. "The Originals (Gibbons, 2004)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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buckshot defunct
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33. "RE: The Originals (Gibbons, 2004)"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

I love Gibbons's art, and I find the mod movement pretty interesting, so it wasn't hard for me to find stuff to like about The Originals. It's gotta be one of the coolest looking graphic novels I've read. It's almost a piece of fashion moreso than a work of literature.

Because story-wise, there isn't a whole lot of substance here. I mean, I liked it. It's cool and all. Sort of a Quadrophenia/Clockwork Orange take on your typical boy meets girl coming of age yarn. All the characters seem pretty shallow, but I'm pretty sure that's because they're supposed to be. Typical teenage hedonists and what not.

I'd like to see more stuff like this from Gibbons in the future though.

  

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lonesome_d
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34. "I quite liked this one"
In response to Reply # 32


          

but then, I'm an old Who head. In all actuality, this graphic novel was probably better than the Quadrophenia movie.

The sci-fi bits were pretty neat little asides that never got in the way of the story, and the story itself i felt was pretty tight. The artwork did a great job of conveying the importance of style to the factions as well as combining the retro and futuristic elements well.

  

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buckshot defunct
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37. "yeah, I really dug the world he created"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

I'd love to see him do more stuff in this setting.

  

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lonesome_d
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41. "I think a similar take on late '70s culture"
In response to Reply # 37


          

would be excellent. THere's so much material to mine there...

  

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tomtomorrow
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55. "RE: The Originals (Gibbons, 2004)"
In response to Reply # 32


          

I'm torn about this.

On one hand, it reads like pretty fluff. The story is not especially engaging or interesting, and one finishes the book feeling as though he wasted a potentially fascinating story.

On the other, it's books like these that reaffirm my love of comics: that it can tell an odd, futuristic tale from the stylistic standpoint of the 1970's without seeming absolutely ridiculous.

  

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buckshot defunct
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35. "Epileptic (Beauchard, 2003)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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Michi
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77. "I hate it"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

Synopsis: David B's autbiographical account of growing up in the 1960s and '70s with an epileptic older brother.

It dark, tightly drawn, with lots of details and lots of ink. Imagine a German expressionist film on paper. It was too uneven for my tastes. The book is mostly about the various quacks, counterculture and legitimate doctors, they see who try to cure his brother (whom I didn't care about). It's cynical and introspective. When David talks about people's reactions to his brother's seizures, his brother's teen years and rejection of medication (this is when I do start to care about him, the book livens up for me . He actually become a person not a concept), or David's inner life, which is populated by convos with characters from the occult books and magazines he reads.

It's too navel-gazingly introspective in a stereotypically French way.

  

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lonesome_d
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36. "Cages, by Dave McKean"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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lonesome_d
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39. "I read this before I started in on Sandman"
In response to Reply # 36


          

so i didn't know much about him.

Overall, I _really_ wanted to like this. But overall, I didn't _really_ like it. I think the story was supposed to be very deep, and metaphorical, but in my lazy mind I was treating it as a mystery of sorts and on that level it ultimately didn't make too much sense.

McKean's artistic talent is pretty evident, though, and he excels at setting moods.

  

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hype_phb
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51. "McKean needs to stick with Gaiman."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

He's a gifted artist, no doubt, but it seems like he's picked up on the most pretentious and obnoxious tendencies of Gaiman's work without really retaining any of the subtlety or humor that made it great. He is very good at setting moods, no doubt, but he has a really hard time keeping a story together and cohesive....

Bringing you unpopular posts since 2003.

"Einstein has a formula, Wu Tang has a formula. A part equals a square and all that stuff, you know what Im saying? We have a formula, too."

  

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buckshot defunct
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38. "It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken (Seth, 2003)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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buckshot defunct
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47. "I love Seth's linework"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

This book really looks great. Man, I love his attention to architecture. This guy can draw some damn buildings, I'm telling you.

And even though he is kind of doing the autobiographical thing here, he doesn't fall into the traps of a lot of other autobiographical comics. For one, it's not really in first person, so we get a sense of this Seth guy as a character, and not just an author talking directly to us. Ironically, this makes him a lot more real to me.

Can't say I completely relate to the guy, but I am pretty fascinated with him. You think you suffer from nostalgia? You ain't got shit on Seth.

The story is kind of mundane, but due to my personal love for the subject matter I can still get into it.

  

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buckshot defunct
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40. "Tricked (Robinson, 2005)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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buckshot defunct
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44. "Behind the Music meets Robert Altman"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

With a dash of Stray Bullets here and there.

I really dug this one. Nice cast of characters with cool little backstories... a couple of these cats are real bastards, but in the end everybody is at least restored, if not redeemed.

  

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DeadMike
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49. "Kabuki: Circle of Blood (David Mack, 1995?)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

First issue came out in 1995 but I don't think it was collected as a whole til a few years later.

Great story and kicked off the whole Kabuki saga that is continuing to this day. This volume and Kabuki Metamorphosis (Vol. 5) are my favorites but they all kick ass. Great story and great art that evolves and changes with each volume to fit the tone of the story.

Mack is one of the true genuises working in the field today.

  

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buckshot defunct
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52. "Stuck Rubber Baby (Cruse, 1995)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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buckshot defunct
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84. "anyone read this?"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

The first-person narrative and the somewhat grotesque character designs sorta turned me off... but I'm gonna try and revisit this one after I'm finished with BOP.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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buckshot defunct
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53. "Understanding Comics (McCloud, 1994)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Maybe this is more of a Graphic Textbook. Either way it still kicks ass.

  

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buckshot defunct
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72. "I've always loved comics... and this book explained to me why"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

This book was really kind of a revelation to me the first time I read it, and I can still pick it up today and have a 'Eureka!' moment here and there. McCloud sort of picks up where Eisner left off with 'Comics and Sequential Art,' and takes the case for comics as an artform to the next level.

A great read for anybody looking to understand the medium a little better. An essential for anyone looking to create comics of their own.

  

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buckshot defunct
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54. "Wimbledon Green (Seth, 2005)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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buckshot defunct
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56. "Drags for a while, then gets really good"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

The talking headsiness of the first 40 pages or so has some pretty amusing stuff in it, but visually it's quite static and so things get off to a slow start. But once things started picking up, I really enjoyed the hell out of this book. Wimbledon is a real hoot. The Scrooge McDuck of comic book collectors. It was a side of Seth I hadn't seen before. Much looser and a lot funnier. I kind of prefer it, actually.

I just wish he didn't bill this thing as a 'sketchbook comic' It almost sounds like an apology. And the whole 'sketchbook' thing could scare off potential readers. The story is a lot of fun and the art is still more polished than most.

  

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DrNO
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75. "Fuck you Wimbledon Green!"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

I just finished it. Lots of fun. Although the art isn't terribly appealing.
I dig that Wimbledon migh actually be hiding out in Winnipeg. Fun Fact: The owner of the shop i go to, his collection is known as "the winnipeg collection".

_
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buckshot defunct
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85. "that book might have the greatest chase scene ever"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

And I thought the artwork was pretty damn good... Unless you're referring to the countless panels of talking heads. That was kinda tough to get through at times.

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DrNO
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86. "yeah"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

and some more colour wouldn't have hurt.

_
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buckshot defunct
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59. "Sock Monkey (Millionaire, 2000)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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buckshot defunct
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62. "Get drunk and read it to your kids"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Hell, get the kids drunk too.

I don't really know how to explain this one. It's just insane. Lots of fun, though. And I find Tony Millionaire's artwork to be beautiful in a somewhat grotesque way.

  

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buckshot defunct
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60. "Summer Blonde (Tomine, 2003)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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theBIGguy
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63. "great read"
In response to Reply # 60


          

worth picking up, if you see it.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.-Tyler Durden

  

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bearfield
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61. "sanctuary (1993?)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

worth reading?

  

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buckshot defunct
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66. "Palomar (Hernandez, 2003)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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Colonel Sanders
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79. "how does this one relate to Locas?"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

n/m

_____________________________

"my uncle's Colonel Sanders..."
-Kool Keith

** StL OKP's **

** OkayWood Hall of Fame **

  

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buckshot defunct
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67. "The Quitter (Pekar, 2005)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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KingKahn
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69. "Ronin (Miller, '82)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Really, I'm undecided as to just how good this one is. The story is kick-ass, but the color is just plain bad in spots and some of the artwork is poorly drawn, too busy, or both (especially on the DPS's). Outside of that one mildly popular GN about some aging billionaire ninja crimefighter and the Sin Citys, this is probably my favorite work of his in this format. I need to check out 300 though, even though I'm not particularly excited about it. (all of it is in DPS, right?)

  

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Olu
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76. "The art is incredibly horrible in that one"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

the actual story though is great.

An artist friend of mine hates most of Miller's stuff because he can't stand the art. I'm not that extreme, but I think it hurts him to a degree

http://www.last.fm/user/Olu/
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mrhood75
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94. "I just read this for the first time, and it hasn't aged well"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

The art is pretty awful, and the story was sort of interesting, but probably would have seemed a lot cooler to me if I was still in high school (when this book was first recommended to me, about 15 years ago). Most post-apocalyptic stuff doesn't stand the test of time.

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Babadudu
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70. "Superman: Redson"
In response to Reply # 0


          


------------------------------
Best kept secret
www.runmc.com

Dark like the side of the moon u don't see
But a lot's going on beneath the surface if u look closely

Naija4lyf

  

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buckshot defunct
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71. "Best ending... ever?"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

I've said it before and I'll say it again: All my favorite Superman stories aren't really Superman stories. I'm all about these Elseworlds stuff, like Red Son, Secret Identity, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, or even works along the lines of "It's a Bird" that are able to distill the basic idea and mythos of Superman, because in theory, I find the character to be fascinating. In practice, however (meaning the "in continuity" stuff) I find him to be kind of boring.

Red Son is easily one of my favorite Superman stories.

  

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lonesome_d
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74. "Speaking of Elseworlds, I started True Brit this morning."
In response to Reply # 71


          

So far, uh, it's, uh, not very good.

  

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Invisiblist
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82. "EASILY. Lemme tell you a quick story,"
In response to Reply # 71


          

I read the second half or so of Red Son while I was getting my car worked on, and actually started to stand up and clap involuntarily when I finished. The whole thing was amazing, but the ending was just perfection.

I felt so weird. I hope nobody saw me. If they did though, I woulda just said "Mark Millar" and sat back down.

  

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sithlord
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99. "RE: EASILY. Lemme tell you a quick story,"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

This man speaks the truth. Best Superman story I've ever read.
"I mean people think this business is all about money, sex and drugs. Well, it is. But you've also got to remember it is a business. So handle your business, pay your taxes and be on time.''
-The infinite wisdom of Juicy J of Three 6 Mafia

  

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Colonel Sanders
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78. "Sleepwalk and Other Stories (Tomine)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

nice collection of somewhat depressing short stories.

  

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Parvaneh27
Member since Oct 29th 2004
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80. "since it hasn't been posted yet: Sandman"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Author: Neil Gaiman

Comments: Beautiful; interesting characters and concepts; usually great art.

The Dream Hunters book is amazingly beautiful, story and art alike.

Don't be put off the by the Goth following. The Sandman series really is quality work and good reading.

  

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lonesome_d
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87. "My library's missing that one"
In response to Reply # 80


          

so I was holding off for months and months but eventually jst said screw it and read the last few books.

Far & away my favorite of the ones I read was The Inn at World's End or whatever it was called... I'm not good with naming specific volumes!


  

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buckshot defunct
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83. "Box Office Poison (Robinson, 2001)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Still have about 1/3 left to go, so I'll save my opinions for later. But feelings are mostly positive so far.

-----------------------------
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buckshot defunct
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88. "okay, finished."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

Why did this one take me so long to get through? Was I busy? Yes. Was it talky? A bit. Was it interesting? Eh...

I enjoyed the characters, the pop-culture references, the Irving Flavor plot threads (Golden Age comic artist who is basically living in poverty while a superhero he created makes millions) The relationship stuff was... okay. The Sherman & Dorothy aspect of the book was probably my least favorite, which is a shame because that's what seems to get the most attention.

The dialogue is well written and captures a "real" conversational feel, but it did get to be a bit much at times. Yeah, BOP is true to life. And in real life, some people don't know how to shut up. There are portions of the book when there's more text than imagery on the page, and I generally think that defeats the purpose of the "graphic" novel. Wrap it up, B!!

Another strength is the characters. Robinson did a bang-up job giving everybody their own individual traits and quirks. He's not the greatest of artists... design wise, it is sometimes difficult to discern between who is who (especially with the females) But the characters are written well enough that it never really comes into question. You know these people. They're as easy to tell apart as anybody in your own circle of friends.

Characters move in and out of the book, much in the same way they do in your own life. When Stephen and Jane move out of the city, I actually *missed* them. I saw pieces of myself in all of the characters (and it generally wasn't the pretty pieces, either) I've known girls like Dorothy, but fortunately I've always known better than to get *too* involved with them (fascinating as they may seem). Still, she wasn't "the bad guy." By the end of the book I pitied/hated Sherman. When a book can evoke that kind of reaction towards its characters, I consider it a big plus.

The best thing I can say about BOP is that it was an accurate portrayl of post-College life. The downside being, post-College life isn't always terribly interesting. BOP does really well grappling with that, because you still finding yourself getting caught up in these lives and saying "I can relate to this". But I do find some of these semi-autobiographical, post-College slice of life comics to be kind of self-indulgent... as if just the mere act of being a 20-something is fascinating in and of itself (I am a 20 something, and I can tell you that this simply is not the case) Call it "Garden State Syndrome," I dunno. BOP definitely falls into these traps at times, but it's got more than enough legitimate high points to make up for it.

Now, I've also read Robinson's "Tricked", and I can't decide which one I like better. "Tricked" is certainly the more polished of the two, both in its visuals and in its storytelling. But there's something about those BOP characters that have a real, lasting charm. So it's kind of a toss-up.

-----------------------------
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@kennykeil

  

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buckshot defunct
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89. "...up?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


-----------------------------
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@kennykeil

  

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phenompyrus
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90. "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Volumes 1 and 2"
In response to Reply # 0


          

These are probably the best comic books I have ever read. The story is great retold retro fun, and the characters work great together.
The second volume is my favorite of the two, I love how they incorporate War of the Worlds.
The next volume cannot come soon enough.
This should be a monthly or bi-monthly book easily.

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Brother_Afron
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91. "Both are great"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

But I ride for the second one two, if only for Hyde's convo with Miss Murray. "Go. Go before I break your jaw."

Fun is the new gritty

  

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phenompyrus
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92. "Yea, Hyde was the star of the show in 2..."
In response to Reply # 91


          

Some weird ass shit, but great reading nonetheless.

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mrhood75
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93. "His scene with the Invisible Man is disturbingly classic"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

Ditto with the banquet with Nemo afterwards. The shit gives me the jibblies, but it's about as pefectly executed as something like that can be.

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phenompyrus
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98. "Yup."
In response to Reply # 93


          

It made you realize just how fucked up Hyde was.

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buckshot defunct
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97. "Deogratias, A Tale of Rwanda"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Heavy stuff. But I liked it.

It's kind of a challenging one, mostly in terms of subject matter, but even the story structure itself, the way it sort of jumps around without explicitly telling you that it's jumping around. I'd recommend it though.

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@kennykeil

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
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Mon Jul-31-06 10:25 AM

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100. "akira (otomo, 1982-1989?)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so i finally got around to reading all 2000+ pages and i'm still absorbing most of it

first off, otomo is absolutely brilliant as an artist. there are panels that i stared at for 10+ minutes just marvelling at the detail and complexity of his work. the panels conveying mass destruction are easily the most impressive: huge tidal waves hitting 100-story buildings, kids with psychokinetic powers throwing fighter jets and missiles at each other, satellite laser defense systems being dropped on various locales... just really amazing stuff

i'd seen the movie and thoroughly enjoyed it but it really didn't prepare me for the depth of the manga. i've heard some ppl say that the movie is a trailer for the manga but i think it's more of a teaser. the story is incredibly complex. so complex i won't even attempt to summarize it. there's just a ton of cool shit in these books. it's the movie x 1000

my respect for otomo went up twofold after reading the manga. 1.) for writing and drawing it and 2.) for somehow condensing 2000+ pages of action and dialogue into about 2 hours and still coming away with a semi-coherent story. imo the manga would make an amazing mini-series because there are a ton of incredible moments that i'm somewhat dissapointed they didn't make it into the movie becase they just look like they would animate beautifully

the translation is pretty good but at some parts it seems... forced. on occasion there are some random 4-letter words that seem to be thrown in for the hell of it and there are some discintly american phrases thrown in and that kind of translating has always kind of bugged me. but i've always been for more thorough/accurate translations so it could be a misperception on my part

i really enjoyed reading this and anyone who liked (or hated) the movie and wants a better understanding of just what the fuck is going on should pick this up

  

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buckshot defunct
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101. "I don't know much about this one"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

I've seen the movie and all that, I even picked up a couple issues that Epic reprinted back in the day (colorized and translated) The artwork just blew me the fuck away. I had seen manga before, but nothing so grandiose. I think it was one of the first cyberpunk type things I'd seen, also. It's a gorgeous book. I just don't know much about the story...

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
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Mon Jul-31-06 11:34 AM

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104. "you can watch the movie and not know much about the story..."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

and you can read the manga and STILL not know much about the story, lol. sometimes it's pretty hard to wrap your mind around it. i think it's mostly about the fear of japan being decimated again, the fear what could happen if they could counter that destruction, and the uncertainty of post-annihilation life

i'm interested in knowing just what the fuck was going on in japan politically and socially in the 80's because i'm almost positive there are some real-world parallels that foreigners can't get without an understanding of japanese culture at that time. obviously our bombing of japan has had a huge influence on some of their anime and manga...

also i think i enjoy black and white work more than color. i'm hardly knowledgeable on comics but the two black and white's i've read (cerebus and akira) are just more pleasing to look at than, say, v for vendetta or preacher (but i'm sure that's 99% otomo and sim being brilliant artists)

  

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buckshot defunct
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106. "that all depends for me"
In response to Reply # 104
Mon Jul-31-06 11:59 AM by buckshot defunct

  

          

>also i think i enjoy black and white work more than color.
>i'm hardly knowledgeable on comics but the two black and
>white's i've read (cerebus and akira) are just more pleasing
>to look at than, say, v for vendetta or preacher (but i'm sure
>that's 99% otomo and sim being brilliant artists)

I've never seen the b&w Akira, but I'm assuming it's good. So you're citing 2 very excellent books right there (you can go ahead and toss Bone into the mix, while you're at it) These are works that were originally envisioned and executed as black and white... They're already complete, without the color. So when they eventually do get colorized, it serves no greater purpose to the story (besides making it accessible to a larger audience, I suppose)

On the other hand, I really couldn't picture something like Jimmy Corrigan or The Death Ray working without color, so it goes both ways.


EDIT: I think V for Vendetta is pretty damn ugly looking. I dunno if it's the paper stock they've printed it on or what...

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@kennykeil

  

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KwesiAkoKennedy
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107. "I think I may be able to answer this..."
In response to Reply # 104
Mon Jul-31-06 12:12 PM by KwesiAkoKennedy

  

          

You're right, it does have it's roots in the politics of the 80's when wealth, consumerism and political corruption were at an all time high. Otomo is blending in some of the social themes that still pop up in some of the stories from Japan today. The country was experiencing some of their biggest financial and technological gains but, in the opinion of some, at the expense of the a sense of genuine national pride, culture and the next generation of youth.

To a degree, the biker gangs represent a lost generation of over entitled kids with nothing better to do than wreak havok because the real challenges in life are not really a challenge any more. This is still an issue today in Japan where the culture is geared to making everything for their kids as easy as possibly for an enjoyable childhood. Not everyone buys into this but shools, for example, tend to not be so hard on kids for misbehaving and the threat of expulsion or being left behind a grade is not really there.

A big example of this is the law that children are garunteed to graduate. They can skip class, not do work, be disruptive, and still graduate from grade to grade up to high school. Basically, anything up to high school is meant to be training for the test to get into high school not to truly learn anything.

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
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Mon Jul-31-06 12:10 PM

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109. "thanks. that's really insightful"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

  

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KwesiAkoKennedy
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Mon Jul-31-06 12:23 PM

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110. "That's just one aspect of the story..."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

I just commented on the youth since I know people that have experienced it fist hand.

  

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lonesome_d
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111. "Biker gangs are an active and present part of youth culture"
In response to Reply # 107
Mon Jul-31-06 12:55 PM by lonesome_d

          

called 'Bosuzoku,' I think. Also has links to 'yankee' culture via extreme tobacco abuse, preference for driving very loud means of transportation late at night through otherwise quiet neighborhoods, dyeing one's hair orange, and taking a general punk ass attitude toward life. On seeing the movie, I looked at the biker gangs as a logical extension of bosuzoku culture.

As far as the 80s in Japan, I didn't get there until 1993 but from what I know of the 1980s it was kind of like here.... there was a nice conservative veneer with a lot of ugly things going on underneath. There's always a crazy right wing contingent that parades around blaring loudpeakers about returning power to the Emperor, and the 1980s saw a comparative lot of terrorist activity from the Japanese Red Army organization (a childhood friend's dad was killed when they blew up a jet about 1983 or 1984).

And absolutely, the final act of WWII continues to play a massive role in the Japanese psyche.

  

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KwesiAkoKennedy
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Mon Jul-31-06 01:23 PM

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112. "RE: Biker gangs are an active and present part of youth culture"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>called 'Bosuzoku,' I think. Also has links to 'yankee'
>culture via extreme tobacco abuse, preference for driving very
>loud means of transportation late at night through otherwise
>quiet neighborhoods, dyeing one's hair orange, and taking a
>general punk ass attitude toward life. On seeing the movie, I
>looked at the biker gangs as a logical extension of bosuzoku
>culture.

My brother has had a run in with them. Luckily, they weren't on their bikes.

While not true Bosuzoku, gangs gained a new kind of popularity a while back by way of a novel about them set in Ikebukuro West Gate Park. By way of the TV adaption, it was kind of trendy to be in a color gang like in the show.

>As far as the 80s in Japan, I didn't get there until 1993 but
>from what I know of the 1980s it was kind of like here....
>there was a nice conservative veneer with a lot of ugly things
>going on underneath. There's always a crazy right wing
>contingent that parades around blaring loudpeakers about
>returning power to the Emperor, and the 1980s saw a
>comparative lot of terrorist activity from the Japanese Red
>Army organization (a childhood friend's dad was killed when
>they blew up a jet about 1983 or 1984).

The ultra right wing guys are still there. Kick out foreigners, fuck Korea and all...

So do you think that the group that Ryu and Kei belong to are meant to be a representation of the JRA? I thought it was interesting that it was revealed that their inside man turned out to be a double dealing oppourtunist in the government.

  

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lonesome_d
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Mon Jul-31-06 02:22 PM

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113. "I don't know"
In response to Reply # 112


          

Haven't given it much thought - didn't care for the movie much. I'll take Porco Rosso any day.

I'd guess it's a possibility, but not likely. In the movie, if I remember right we want to root for the Ryu/Kei contingent, yeah? Come down to it, the Red Army did some bad shit, and that cost them any popular/ist support they may have had as a viable leftist alternative to the government.

*shrug* More likely than not, I would guess they were a romantic ideal of how the non-conformists in Japanese society (yeah, even though the bosuzoku are moajor conformists within their own world) represent the freedom and responsibilities that the mainstream shrugs off in return for the security provided by an obivously corrupt government.

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Mon Jul-31-06 11:11 AM

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102. "Night Fisher by R Kikuo Johnson"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This one came up in another post but I figure I can drop a mention here as well.

I really dug this one, as I do pretty much all of Johnson's work (one of my favorite newcomers in a long time). The artwork (as well as certain aspects of the premise) sort of reminded me of Blankets, but the story itself was a little more along the lines of an issue of Stray Bullets. The Hawaii setting works particularly well.

It's pretty short though, and it left me wanting more. But I guess that's a good thing.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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steelreserve40
Member since Nov 01st 2004
2293 posts
Mon Jul-31-06 11:48 AM

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105. "whats the verdict on cerebus?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i had heard pleanty about it when i was reading comics, and thought it was awesome that they intended it to be a straight up 300 issue series, but never peeped it.

i did some reading here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebus_the_Aardvark

and had no idea that dave sims was such a controversial/opinionated guy. it sounds like what should have been a comic legacy ended up w/ a bit of a wimper and sims ended up a someone religious fanatic, and it sounds like he ostracised himself from the comic industry.


thoughts?

'a baker earns his living by baking. a carpenter, by building things. youre a rapper, RAP MOTHERFUCKER' - lyor cohen

ssbb fc:5455-9051-5437 tag: hlbx9

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
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Mon Jul-31-06 12:04 PM

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108. "i think it's spectacular... most of the time"
In response to Reply # 105
Mon Jul-31-06 12:39 PM by bearfield

  

          

it starts out a little weak but high society and church & state vols. 1 & 2 are incredible. it transforms from a conan the barbarian parody into a deadly satire of capitalism, politics, bureaucracy, and religion

it definitely has its highs (c&s vols. 1&2) and its not-so-highs (melmoth) but it's always interesting and funny and it always looks great

edit: i should say i've only read up to melmoth which i think is just past the halfway point of the series

  

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