aka "I Really Tried To Like Ozu"

there are a certain number of movies that are widely-regarded as classics, the best, superior works, y'know, the list worthy choices. however, for every opinion there's an equal and opposite reaction.

which "on paper classics" disappointed you? and why?

>aka "I Really Tried To Like Ozu"

_____________________________

"my uncle's Colonel Sanders..."
-Kool Keith

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and my expectations were high. top ten worthy? it's on too many lists. but that's probably because it's in subtitles, shot in black & white, and is slow.

i guess i just don't like movies where i'm asking myself, "so what?"

plus, the copy i had wasn't translated 100%, which was upsetting.

>and my expectations were high. top ten worthy? it's on too
>many lists. but that's probably because it's in subtitles,
>shot in black & white, and is slow.

Definately not top ten worthy.
It moves slow, but its beautifully shot- every frame is perfect. Its not one of my favorites by any means, but its enjoyable for what it is- a quiet, understated look at the conflict between generations.
Its a very subtle movie and is not gonna hit you over the head with anything, but thats not a bad thing. I enjoyed it, but do agree that its very overrated in general.

_____________________________

"my uncle's Colonel Sanders..."
-Kool Keith

** StL OKP's™ **

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i watched Early Summer, Late Spring, and Tokyo Story.

i guess they were all alright in a particular manner; i certainly wouldn't call them "bad films." however, i didn't see most of the work to be compelling, but rather dull. i guess their very simple qualities could be structured as a refreshing aspect (i realize it's deeper than surface-value), but that wasn't enough for me. they dealt with these elementary human emotions, without adding insight or interest as to why i should concern myself with them or the story. the films, for better or for worse, would best described as "sparse." i've described movies before in a similar way, yet had a deeper connection with the work. there just wasn't enough to fill the gaps.

Early Summer was the only one i liked, but even then i say that with hesitation. i dunno. maybe these just missed me for whatever reason, but they did all get away.

I kept watching in 15 minute incriments and turning it off because it failed to grab me. Last week I watched what was left which was a little over an hour. After I finished I immediately put it back on and watched the whole thing straight through. Then I began to listen to the commentary which I'm halfway done with now.

When it was all said and done, it really got to me on a personal level and hit home on some ways.

I think it's an excellent film but I can certainly see why many people wouldn't like it. Do keep in mind that Ozu doesn't seem to like to manipulate his audience the way many filmmakers do. (and if he does, it's in a very covert manner). He simply presents us with an honest situation. I love the way every relationship is handled and presented in this movie.

I'd say give it another shot maybe in a year and see what you think then.

I wouldn't put it in my top 10 eiher but I really really liked it.

>I kept watching in 15 minute incriments and turning it off
>because it failed to grab me.

glad to see i'm not the only one who does that.

>Then I began to listen to the commentary
>which I'm halfway done with now.

i have the plane Jane VHS version.

>When it was all said and done, it really got to me on a
>personal level and hit home on some ways.

i read that too, but didn't feel it.

>I think it's an excellent film but I can certainly see why
>many people wouldn't like it. Do keep in mind that Ozu
>doesn't seem to like to manipulate his audience the way many
>filmmakers do. (and if he does, it's in a very covert
>manner). He simply presents us with an honest situation. I
>love the way every relationship is handled and presented in
>this movie.
>
>I'd say give it another shot maybe in a year and see what
>you think then.

in a year, Tokyo Story comes back out.

>>When it was all said and done, it really got to me on a
>>personal level and hit home on some ways.
>
>i read that too, but didn't feel it.

you read what? that it hit me on a personal level? lol

>>>When it was all said and done, it really got to me on a
>>>personal level and hit home on some ways.
>>
>>i read that too, but didn't feel it.
>
>you read what? that it hit me on a personal level? lol

haha

correction:

i read that it was able to make an impact on the vieiwer in quite a personal way. however, i didn't feel that much was true for me.

getting a little Truman Show on me.

Everyone has this near the tops of their all-time lists.
But for me its not even in my personal top 5 Hitchcock movies.
It just didnt hold my interest like so many of his others,
but I guess its just me.

_____________________________

"my uncle's Colonel Sanders..."
-Kool Keith

** StL OKP's™ **

** OkayWood Hall of Fame™ **

did you like the first half or the second half better, or both equally disliked the same?

i've heard this before. people either thought the beginning was too slow, or from the courtroom on it was too slow.

i think it's a fantastic film, but not my favorite by Hitchcock. beautiful movie to at least look at.

>did you like the first half or the second half better, or
>both equally disliked the same?
>i've heard this before. people either thought the beginning
>was too slow, or from the courtroom on it was too slow.

I liked the first half better.
I saw it with high expectations and was left wondering what made it so much better than other Hitchcock works.

>i think it's a fantastic film, but not my favorite by
>Hitchcock. beautiful movie to at least look at.

Definately nice to look at, and definately not Hitchcock's best.

_____________________________

"my uncle's Colonel Sanders..."
-Kool Keith

** StL OKP's™ **

** OkayWood Hall of Fame™ **

have you only seen it once?

Vertigo is.......damm I love that movie

not that I disliked it but I failed to see the big deal.

Like I said before I prefer Scorsese's version

>not that I disliked it but I failed to see the big deal.

i felt the same way after the first time i saw it, but under the suggestion of KF, i revisited.

great, great movie.

i also wasn't paying attention i guess the first time, because i failed to appreciate how the movie was more than a missing persons story, but a rather involved tale of deep-seeded racism.

initially, i was thrown off by the kind of sappy comedy appearing every so often. Mos Harper really pissed me off. but with the second time around, i toned down my concentration on that.

its cinematography is really wonderful, while Ford proves to be a master in terms of perfectly structuring such a complex and episodic tale.

might be my favorite John Wayne role in terms of the acting exhibited.

all around it's just a wonderfully composed piece.

IMO

>Like I said before I prefer Scorsese's version

with all that being said, me too.

I just don't know when.

And I got the whole racism angle, I just didn't get much out of it.

but I'll see it again so we'll see

But it was beautifully shot and the only movie I like John Wayne in.

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>the only movie I like John
>Wayne in.

have you seen Rio Bravo (1959) or The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance? great movies.

and Stagecoach (1939) and Rio Bravo (1959), which i will see shortly, are supposed to be quite nice as well.

and The Shootist.

He's good in them as well. He's just not a subtle actor at all.

_
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http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

The Horse Soldiers

and 3 Godfathers.

John Wayne is one of my favorite actors.

Even though I admit he ain't exactly Marlon Brando.

Still, he's good. Better than a lot of people give him credit for.

Why don't people give him credit? I blame Flavor Flav.

>Still, he's good. Better than a lot of people give him
>credit for.

Yeah I agree. Plus you must admit the man had presence It's funny because my two favorite Wayne performances thus far were in movies that I didn't like so much (Searchers, Red River).

>Why don't people give him credit? I blame Flavor Flav.

I figured you would have blamed Lucy Ricardo.

his technical skill isn't great but he's always genuine. Fonda was better in Fords films though, watched My Darling Clementine again last night. Damn is that a great film. My favourite Ford film.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

>Why don't people give him credit? I blame Flavor Flav.

I'd blame the fact that he was a White Supremacist.

_____________________________

"my uncle's Colonel Sanders..."
-Kool Keith

** StL OKP's™ **

** OkayWood Hall of Fame™ **

so got any links?

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

>>Why don't people give him credit? I blame Flavor Flav.
>
>I'd blame the fact that he was a White Supremacist.

I don't know much about Wayne's personal life.

I know that he was right-wing, anti-communist and that type of thing doesn't sit well with me.

However, he and John Ford (another right-winger) made some of the most LEFT WING films to come out of old hollywood.

There was Stagecoach in which the most noble characters in the film were a hooker and an outlaw.

There was The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

The Horse Soldiers.

The Searchers.

Fort Apache.

Left Wing films from Right Wing artists. It's strange.

Similarly, Charlton Heston is someone whose politics I despise, but he acted in one of the greatest (and most left wing) films of all time: Touch Of Evil.

So I like John Wayne.

Because he made good movies.

kind of went back and forth from being left wing to right wing. At the end he was very right wing though.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

>have you seen Rio Bravo (1959) or The Man Who Shot Liberty
>Valance? great movies.

You got me on The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Wayne was pretty good in that too, but I always remember it as a Stewart flick.

Rio Bravo is enjoyable, but I still don't like Wayne in it.

--------

I thought the characters were all incredibly naive and so cut and dry that i wanted to puke. I don't remember too much about this movie except that I hated it. The little world Hitchcock set up outside the windows was nice, but the story and the characters had me angry.

There is a great Space Ghost quote on Hitchcock and this movie that I need to find.
______________________________
Well, now time passed and now it seems
Everybody's having them dreams.
Everybody sees themselves walkin' around with no one else.

"Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time.
But all the people can't be all right all the time"
I think Abraham Lincoln said that.

"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours"
I said that.

illgaluminati...we dance to all the wrong songs. we enjoy all the wrong moves.

Midnight Marauders...open late so you can eat great!

>I thought the characters were all incredibly naive and so
>cut and dry that i wanted to puke. I don't remember too
>much about this movie except that I hated it. The little
>world Hitchcock set up outside the windows was nice, but the
>story and the characters had me angry.

hmmm

i've actually heard this before. not sure if it was expressed in the "hated it" manner, but oh well.

not that it should be an excuse for weak stories or characters, which i'm not saying Rear Window offers, but i think with Hitchcock films it is principally about the suspense created and the atmosphere just soaking up the screen. Remember Ebert's First Law: "A movie is not about what it is about, but how it is about it."

but i don't think Jimmy Stewart or Grace Kelly or Thelma Ritter give performances that are anything but exciting. their characters might not be the most layered, complex roles ever, but they at the very least move the action about. and of course there is a certain amount of naiveté necessary to make it all work. after all, it wouldn't quite be the same if the characters knew what and when to do the right thing. they don't have all the answers. they get in trouble. suspense.

so it truly does display a mastering of tension. the fear and anxiety and anguish and helplessness is quite palpable. its a world to itself.

>There is a great Space Ghost quote on Hitchcock and this
>movie that I need to find.

this one?-

"Hitchcock's the worst director ever. Did you see "Rear Window"? It's all black and white and there are no adult situations. You know it was just made to sell toys, which you can't find anywhere!"

>hmmm
>
>i've actually heard this before. not sure if it was
>expressed in the "hated it" manner, but oh well.
>
>not that it should be an excuse for weak stories or
>characters, which i'm not saying Rear Window offers, but i
>think with Hitchcock films it is principally about the
>suspense created and the atmosphere just soaking up the
>screen. Remember Ebert's First Law: "A movie is not about
>what it is about, but how it is about it."
>
>but i don't think Jimmy Stewart or Grace Kelly or Thelma
>Ritter give performances that are anything but exciting.
>their characters might not be the most layered, complex
>roles ever, but they at the very least move the action
>about. and of course there is a certain amount of naiveté
>necessary to make it all work. after all, it wouldn't quite
>be the same if the characters knew what and when to do the
>right thing. they don't have all the answers. they get in
>trouble. suspense.
>
>so it truly does display a mastering of tension. the fear
>and anxiety and anguish and helplessness is quite palpable.
>its a world to itself.

Yeah i can see all that. But for me the complete innocence v. evil ruined it for me, it took me out of any suspense being created. Like Space Ghost said it was all black and white. It may just be a generation gap that I can't look past, I don't know.

>>There is a great Space Ghost quote on Hitchcock and this
>>movie that I need to find.
>
>this one?-
>
>"Hitchcock's the worst director ever. Did you see "Rear
>Window"? It's all black and white and there are no adult
>situations. You know it was just made to sell toys, which
>you can't find anywhere!"

ha, yeah thats the one. by the end of the episode he had a jimmy stewart action figure complete with wheel chair.

______________________________
Well, now time passed and now it seems
Everybody's having them dreams.
Everybody sees themselves walkin' around with no one else.

"Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time.
But all the people can't be all right all the time"
I think Abraham Lincoln said that.

"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours"
I said that.

illgaluminati...we dance to all the wrong songs. we enjoy all the wrong moves.

Midnight Marauders...open late so you can eat great!

I'm not sure how classically regarded this film is, but I know some love it (scorsese). I know it had its detractors when it was release, basically ruined Powell's career.

It bored me to death.
______________________________
Well, now time passed and now it seems
Everybody's having them dreams.
Everybody sees themselves walkin' around with no one else.

"Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time.
But all the people can't be all right all the time"
I think Abraham Lincoln said that.

"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours"
I said that.

illgaluminati...we dance to all the wrong songs. we enjoy all the wrong moves.

Midnight Marauders...open late so you can eat great!

because that ain't the one to start with. Although I love it.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

what do you suggest?
______________________________
Well, now time passed and now it seems
Everybody's having them dreams.
Everybody sees themselves walkin' around with no one else.

"Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time.
But all the people can't be all right all the time"
I think Abraham Lincoln said that.

"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours"
I said that.

illgaluminati...we dance to all the wrong songs. we enjoy all the wrong moves.

Midnight Marauders...open late so you can eat great!

may even be in my top 10.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

The Red Shoes and Black Narcissus.

both highly-touted films from the duo of Powell & Pressburger that fall the fuck off at the end. the latter film features some colorful scenics, but both, to me, offer at best a Scorsese commentary track.

DrNo keeps suggesting The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (Ebert too), and i'm making myself watch it before my top 100 list is complete.

did you see peeping tom?
______________________________
Well, now time passed and now it seems
Everybody's having them dreams.
Everybody sees themselves walkin' around with no one else.

"Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time.
But all the people can't be all right all the time"
I think Abraham Lincoln said that.

"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours"
I said that.

illgaluminati...we dance to all the wrong songs. we enjoy all the wrong moves.

Midnight Marauders...open late so you can eat great!

>did you see peeping tom?

i've been trying to see Peeping Tom, but it's not readily available. i'll watch Colonel Blimp in about a week.

if you don't like Colonel Blimp man your hopeless. The Red Shoes has the best dance scene ever, great insight into how deeply people can become over their art, and great performances. The only part that bugs me is the end.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

there are parts of both The Red Shoes and Black Narcissus that stand out and were quite good. overall the pictures were generally soiled by the 3 act.

>The only part that bugs me is the end.

yeah

and before the lynching begins, i appreciate the technical aspects.

the acting, story and pacing, on the other hand...

so you can't factor that out. the technical aspects are most important to me in watching a film.

>the acting, story and pacing, on the other hand...

the characters are full and 3-D. i don't generally pay special attention to the acting, so i can't convince you either way. but for me they served to transport the characters from the page to the screen quite convincingly.

the story? was it not compelling? i think the story is fantastic. a)the way in which it is presented was quite fresh for the time and adds a quality that still maintains its spirit today. b)it's a well-constructed tale of money, power, and respect. c)at the same time, it's deeper than a sled and innocence loss. i think in a movie so conscious of the power of money and the money of power, it manages to tell a remarkably maneuvering episode of the coldness of cash and the emptiness of success.

Rosebud being used to protect CFK from the man come to take him away from home, plus, at the end, the sled piled amongst the rest of the mess of material clutter, for me accents an important point about the qualities of corruption in man.

the pacing is from another time in film's history. it's not Armageddon, where you get a new shot every 1.3 seconds. it's not MTV. it's melodic in its presentation, calculating, precise, and meaningful.

hmmm

my personal interpretation -

Rosebud - why a SLED and not a more typical childhood toy?

1. Obviously it allows the filmmakers to introduce the idea of "Rosebud" with that glass, without giving away what it is. But this still doesn't explain why Rosebud would be important.
2. Here's what I think - a sled, y'know, SLIDES, it accelerates and goes off course untill it crashes. This is basically what happens to Kane's life. He starts of with all the potential to be a great, virtuous, man, but then he's whisked away to this strange world of enormous wealth. Hence the quote:

"I could have been a great man. I don't think I did too badly, considering the circumstances."

(or something like that)

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

>hmmm
>
>my personal interpretation -
>
>Rosebud - why a SLED and not a more typical childhood toy?
>
>1. Obviously it allows the filmmakers to introduce the idea
>of "Rosebud" with that glass, without giving away what it
>is. But this still doesn't explain why Rosebud would be
>important.
>2. Here's what I think - a sled, y'know, SLIDES, it
>accelerates and goes off course untill it crashes. This is
>basically what happens to Kane's life. He starts of with all
>the potential to be a great, virtuous, man, but then he's
>whisked away to this strange world of enormous wealth. Hence
>the quote:
>
>"I could have been a great man. I don't think I did too
>badly, considering the circumstances."
>
>(or something like that)

i'm sure that's one interpretation and we can't call right or wrong.

but let's say for instance that Rosebud had been a rubber ball. the image of a rubber ball being used as leverage from the man come to take CFK away losses its impact. a sled is such a strong and just large object that it can easily be used and showed as some kind of barrier from the outside. in a plainly visual and then figurative sense, it protects him.

the scene where we see Kane as a child being given away to that wealthy man.

He doesn't want to go.

He hits at the man with what? Rosebud! The sled.

It's entirely possible that the sled was forever connected to that memory. His one act of protest. Throughout the film we see Kane becoming totally assimilated into that world of greed and ugliness that the wealthy man brought him into.

But at one time, when he was that child. . . he didn't want to be a part of it and he didn't want to go with that man and he struck out at it and him with that little sled.

Would it be so strange then that he would think of that sled on his deatbed as he goes over in his mind the mistakes he has made in his life?

Just something to think about.

Rosebud=his memory of once being untouched by the ugliness that consumed him.

where there is still the figurative "act of protest," and the idea of Kane lost to a world of greed so early in the course of his life

brilliant! looks like we can call it afterall, Butler

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

for sure. Which is the theme of the film of course.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

The author/critic in the introduction says that Welles knew the character of Kane was merely disjointed fragments of a person, so he solved the problem with this sort of enigmatic, clinch-all "rosebud."

But then people make the same point about Hamlet. So mleh.

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

but I should I guess because those are my exact thoughts on it.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

I'd say no, but my film teacher called it one of the best and most important films made in the last 10 years today...

But yeah, wasn't as good as people said it was.

Other than that though...I'll get back to this.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

>I'd say no, but my film teacher called it one of the best
>and most important films made in the last 10 years today...

well, your film teacher is on crack.

Just not nearly as good as his best films. His other British films like the 39 steps are far superior.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

dare i say a bad film even.

yeah.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

should have been perfect and in many ways it's a damm great movie, but the tacked on love story and the ending are terrible.

it's in the upcoming set of films i have to finish for the list.

one of Ebert's great movies (he may agree with you):

And Red River is one of the greatest of all Westerns when it stays with its central story about an older man and a younger one, and the first cattle drive down the Chisholm Trail. It is only in its few scenes involving women that it goes wrong.

and he nailed it on the head, but to me those things keep it from being a great movie

that movie is a masterpiece. Despite the unconvincing romance. Thats a flaw of Fords films as well except for a couple.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

its fucking corny. it doesn't do the movie justice at all.

the bitter rivalry between them was pretty much all show and watching them snap out of it is hilarious.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

The original ending as written was infinitely better. Hawks will never be forgiven.

--------

hell-below.com

Dunson's wound - from Cherry - causes him to collapse, and he soon dies. Matt and Tess bury him in Texas beside the Red River.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

Dunson tries to goad Matt into fighting him, but Matt refuses. Dunson fires his gun all around Matt, but Matt stands tall. Then,

>Dunson's wound - from Cherry - causes him to collapse, and
>he soon dies. Matt and Tess bury him in Texas beside the Red
>River.

--------

hell-below.com

I mentioned my reasons in an earlier post. Not bad but how a whole bunch of better classics were left off AFI's list in favor of this one is beyond me.

Huston, Bogart, and K Hepburn have been involved with much better movies than this one.

>I mentioned my reasons in an earlier post. Not bad but how a
>whole bunch of better classics were left off AFI's list in
>favor of this one is beyond me.

(still haven't seen this)

but let's look at some questionable films that were supposedly the 100 greatest American films of all-time (nevermind that multiple British films make the list).

EDIT-forgot to exluce

11. IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE
17. THE AFRICAN QUEEN
44. THE BIRTH OF A NATION
45. A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE
46. A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
48. JAWS
52. FROM HERE TO ETERNITY
53. AMADEUS
55. THE SOUND OF MUSIC
59. REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE
60. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
62. TOOTSIE
64. CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND
65. THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS
70. THE FRENCH CONNECTION
71. FORREST GUMP
72. BEN-HUR
73. WUTHERING HEIGHTS
75. DANCES WITH WOLVES
77. AMERICAN GRAFFITI
78. ROCKY
84. FARGO
85. DUCK SOUP
86. MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY
87. FRANKENSTEIN
88. EASY RIDER
89. PATTON
90. THE JAZZ SINGER
91. MY FAIR LADY

these are all perfectly valid

>44. THE BIRTH OF A NATION
>49. SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS
>60. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
>70. THE FRENCH CONNECTION
>84. FARGO
>85. DUCK SOUP
>87. FRANKENSTEIN
>88. EASY RIDER
>89. PATTON
>90. THE JAZZ SINGER
>94. GOODFELLAS
>96. THE SEARCHERS
>97. BRINGING UP BABY
>98. UNFORGIVEN

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

>>94. GOODFELLAS
>>96. THE SEARCHERS
>>97. BRINGING UP BABY
>>98. UNFORGIVEN

these four all appear on my top 100 list, i just slipped with the deleted button.

>>44. THE BIRTH OF A NATION
>>60. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
>>70. THE FRENCH CONNECTION
>>84. FARGO
>>85. DUCK SOUP
>>87. FRANKENSTEIN
>>88. EASY RIDER
>>89. PATTON
>>90. THE JAZZ SINGER

the 100 greatest films? i could see sneaking Snow White and Duck Soup on there, otherwise i'm not feeling most of those.

well, narrowed to American films, Raiders i would consider.

otherwise . ..

some of them seem to be there for technical precedence alone (Birth of a Nation and The Jazz Singer). i'll even go so far to claim that Birth of a Nation and French Connection are bad films. they may have been made under extraordinary circumstances, but i'm watching these in a plain room needing more than trivia and history.

and how can you say the french connection is a bad movie? HOW?
Fargo is easily in the top 100.

The historical significance has to be considered.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

>and how can you say the french connection is a bad movie?
>HOW?

the chase scenes were nice to look at, and when they're showing detection method the movie is interesting. Gene Hackman is nice. otherwise i feel it's a little outdated. i'd rather watch Bullitt.

>Fargo is easily in the top 100.

maybe my 4th favorite Coen Borthers film.

>The historical significance has to be considered.

but a movie can't stand on that alone. i'm not giving Workers Leaving the Factory a number one slot based on its historical significance. i appreciate it as an extra, but i judge a film based upon what's on the screen, not how it got there.

i don't wanna get into a "first movie to feature an Asian man, billed with his middle name, in the 1970s, in a movie featuring a school bus crash" competition.

>>Fargo is easily in the top 100.
>
>maybe my 4th favorite Coen Borthers film.

Bah favorite and greatest are different things!

>but a movie can't stand on that alone. i'm not giving
>Workers Leaving the Factory a number one slot based on its
>historical significance. i appreciate it as an extra, but i
>judge a film based upon what's on the screen, not how it got
>there.

Of course that wouldn't be on the list... it's not a feature.

>i don't wanna get into a "first movie to feature an Asian
>man, billed with his middle name, in the 1970s, in a movie
>featuring a school bus crash" competition.

I think when it's claim are creating modern editing and a huge list of camera inovations or being the first film with sound it deserves to be on the damn list. Because those are great achievements and this is a greatest of all time list.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

Gets by on star names and classic nostalgia.

--------

I'm not trying to get people to like Ozu. But, I'll post the reasons why his films and himself as a director are highly regarded.

Ozu's style, themes, and "Western" dominant thought are factors that affect some people's obsrvations/conclusions on Ozu's films.

1-Style: Restrained, bare, etc.

The purpose of Ozu's style (that of his later films) is to focus on the characters and their humanity. Hardly any dollying, crabbing, wipes, fades, dissolves, etc. so that the emphasis is on the characters.

A good point in a previous post, Ozu doesn't try to "manipulate" (for lack of a better term) or "facilitate" w/ camera techniques.

Ozu did the same w/ plot, which is was so anti-Hollywood (at that time) and is so "anti-" of a majority of films to this day.

I suppose that those are huge factors in people calling his style boring, or saying it doesn't grab them. Yes, his films are slow, but so are Ingmar Bergman's, Antonioni's, Resnais' (among others).

But why is it that Bergman gets love/props?...eventhough his style is demanding and "slow" similar to Ozu.

Which leads me to Ozu's themes.

2-Theme: family, marriage, marrying of daughters, college, children. Primarily family.

Fritz Lang made a good point. He said films were going towards a trend where the stories were of special circumstance...things that don't happen to a majority of people. Lang preferred to make stories that were relevant then, now, and will be. The example he gave was...if he were to make a film, he'd do one dealing w/ teenage pregnancy (relevant then, now, and will be).

From what I observe in general, there is an inclination towards films that have a combination of outstanding visuals, colorful characters, and sort of "out of the ordinary" plots. The coolness/trippy/"that was some shit!" factor.

Ozu's themes are just the opposite. Simple stories about family. Isn't it ironic that most people aren't engaged by these simple things. Simple things that we all can relate to.

I know a majority of you can relate to generational familial tension, death, growing up, finding an identity, etc.

After all, what's important in life? Family, friends, health, love. What's at the base of that? Getting along w/ or not getting along w/ people. Interaction/conflict. Being w/ people or feeling isolated. Ultimately our relationships plays a huge role in our lives.

We all can relate to that.

As good as these extraordinary or out of the ordinary or somewhat fantastical plots are...I can't relate directly.

3-Western-dominant thought

Ozu's films have an Eastern philosophy aesthetic.

There is a coined concept of Japanese culture, "Mono No Aware." "Aware" means a "sensitivity to things." Sensitivity to death, impermanence, nature.

Being open to the experience at hand. Similar to Zen philosophy of "Big Mind." Similar to "Tabula Rasa," which means "Blank Slate/Scraped Tablet", a term I forgot about, but an acquaintance brought back to my attention.

Meditation.

Such an aesthetic is foreign to most Westerners.

Ozu is another brand of filmmaking. He does it incredibly well. Incredibly humane.

>1-Style: Restrained, bare, etc.
>
>The purpose of Ozu's style (that of his later films) is to
>focus on the characters and their humanity. Hardly any
>dollying, crabbing, wipes, fades, dissolves, etc. so that
>the emphasis is on the characters.

but if one fails to find his characters interesting, doesn't that leave the director with blanks. the hypothetical idea that the story was trying to impress was partly interesting, but it was the characters that seemed dry to me (but that of course might be its strength in someone else's eyes).

>A good point in a previous post, Ozu doesn't try to
>"manipulate" (for lack of a better term) or "facilitate" w/
>camera techniques.

real life documentarian?

the story that you tell? or how you tell it? can't compromise one for the other, but have to satisfy both. and i mean this not strictly in a visual sense, but the overall composition that needs to be stressed. i found myself with nothing but apathy at moments.

>Ozu did the same w/ plot, which is was so anti-Hollywood (at
>that time) and is so "anti-" of a majority of films to this
>day.
>
>I suppose that those are huge factors in people calling his
>style boring, or saying it doesn't grab them. Yes, his
>films are slow, but so are Ingmar Bergman's, Antonioni's,
>Resnais' (among others).

see, but i can say that with Hiroshima Mon Amour and Last Year at Marienbad i liked those. they may have been "slow," but they had a lot more holding themselves up compared to what i noticed with Ozu. also, i thought L'Avventura was remarkable. the camera couldn't be claimed to have "manipulated" the story, but rather it strengthened the texture and made the experience sturdier. it enhances an aalready rich film. Ozu failed to even begin this, in my opinion.

>But why is it that Bergman gets love/props?...even though his
>style is demanding and "slow" similar to Ozu.

Persona and The Silence get props.

>Fritz Lang made a good point. He said films were going
>towards a trend where the stories were of special
>circumstance...things that don't happen to a majority of
>people. Lang preferred to make stories that were relevant
>then, now, and will be.

i can buy this. but if Ozu's themes and experiences are normal circumstances in my life, they certainly aren't so tedious to deal with.

>From what I observe in general, there is an inclination
>towards films that have a combination of outstanding
>visuals, colorful characters, and sort of "out of the
>ordinary" plots. The coolness/trippy/"that was some shit!"
>factor.

well, i already got vilified for needing to be a)entertained (absorbed) b)wanting to emphasize the visuals primarily.

>Ozu's themes are just the opposite. Simple stories about
>family. Isn't it ironic that most people aren't engaged by
>these simple things. Simple things that we all can relate
>to.

but it's the presentation of those stories that got me (or didn't).

>I know a majority of you can relate to generational familial
>tension, death, growing up, finding an identity, etc.

Yi Yi just popped into my mind. a movie about generational familial tension, death, growing up, finding an identity, etc, that i felt as much as any piece of art ever. Ozu just wasn't able to capture that.

>3-Western-dominant thought
>
>Ozu's films have an Eastern philosophy aesthetic.

i can't change my environment, and also i can't blame it or call it the foremost hindrance.

Just putting out there some characteristics of Ozu's films, which are what his films are regarded (highly regarded by some) for.