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Subject: "WORST BEST PICTURE WINNER IN THE HISTORY OF OSCAR" This topic is locked.
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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:35 PM

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"WORST BEST PICTURE WINNER IN THE HISTORY OF OSCAR"
Sun Mar-05-06 11:42 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

This is such bullshit.

The Academy is patting themselves on the back for voting for a film that tackles race after ignoring Spike Lee and MUCH better race-related films for so many years.

Who did Paul Haggis blow to win this award two years in a row? Fucking ridiculous.

EDIT: I just realized Jack Nicholson read the wrong movie title as a joke just to prove he can do whatever the fuck he wants. It clearly shouldn't have won, it must have bee a joke.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Crash got a W, PTP got an L...
Mar 05th 2006
1
yeah we might need to force-feed this L to PTP...
Mar 05th 2006
3
      Dumbest Post of the Year Award goes to THIS:
Mar 05th 2006
4
      anyone who believes this shouldn't be allowed to watch movies
Mar 05th 2006
5
     
Mar 05th 2006
9
      Anyone with a brain will tell you DTRT >>>>>>>>> Crash.
Mar 05th 2006
13
      you mad?
Mar 05th 2006
19
      ^^^hurt
Mar 06th 2006
27
           ^^^ sitting in corner masturbating to radio raheem
Mar 06th 2006
33
                Dude, you're outnumbered here. I suggest you stop.
Mar 06th 2006
37
                ^^^crashed his schwin and waited all day for Matt Dillon to come
Mar 06th 2006
42
                     lol
Mar 06th 2006
90
                     lol & yes homo I'll assume
Mar 06th 2006
92
                     ^^^ doing the rosie perez dance while typing
Mar 06th 2006
97
      (POST JACK) *rubs eyes* The hell you been?
Mar 06th 2006
22
           ironically I was up the street watching the oscars..
Mar 06th 2006
31
      And YOU, good sir, deserve a major, worldwide L for posting that bullshi...
Mar 05th 2006
11
      nah fam...y'all deserve an L for acting like DTRT is...
Mar 05th 2006
16
           It isn't. But it's a bajillion times better than Crash.
Mar 05th 2006
18
      Yeah, that was a pretty stupid thing to say.
Mar 05th 2006
17
      wow. is this ever wrong.
Mar 06th 2006
76
      not entirely
Mar 06th 2006
101
           But Crash doesn't tackle any issues.
Mar 06th 2006
118
           EXACTLY!!!
Mar 06th 2006
133
      why are people comparing "do the right thing" to "crash"
Mar 06th 2006
114
      RE: why are people comparing "do the right thing" to "crash"
Mar 06th 2006
146
      RE: yeah we might need to force-feed this L to PTP...
Mar 06th 2006
123
     
Mar 06th 2006
127
Ha, ha!
Mar 05th 2006
2
Shakespeare in Love beat Saving Private Ryan, also Rocky...
Mar 05th 2006
6
Shakespeare in Love, Rocky, and Chicago were ALL better than Crash
Mar 05th 2006
8
Well, you're probably right. I personally hated A Beautiful Mind...
Mar 05th 2006
12
since when is shakespeare in love not tight?
Mar 06th 2006
79
      How'd you figure?
Mar 06th 2006
83
           I'd actually agree with Climax on that one
Mar 06th 2006
102
                I disagree
Mar 06th 2006
119
It has NOT been a good weekend for Frank Longo (c) Marv Albert
Mar 05th 2006
7
It has been a very bad weekend for me. But in all seriousness...
Mar 05th 2006
10
Dude...... I know you hate CRASH... but it's better than TITANIC
Mar 05th 2006
20
      I am hesitant to agree with that.
Mar 06th 2006
24
           Your titty argument is flawed.
Mar 06th 2006
38
           But Esposito's tits didn't get NEARLY as clear exposure as Kate's did
Mar 06th 2006
44
                But her nipples are better. Darkness or not.
Mar 06th 2006
47
           Oh shit I'd forgotten about the score. Yeah, that SUCKED.
Mar 06th 2006
43
lolol post of the year..
Mar 05th 2006
14
lolol post of the year..
Mar 05th 2006
15
Bad, but not even close to the worst
Mar 05th 2006
21
That's the other thing, there were no good nominees this year
Mar 06th 2006
23
I can't agree at all-- Good Night and Good Luck, Capote, Munich
Mar 06th 2006
26
GN&GL was hardly great
Mar 06th 2006
34
      I've really hated the Best O. Screenplay category for a few years
Mar 06th 2006
40
           What won it for Crash?
Mar 06th 2006
45
The other nominees were good
Mar 06th 2006
32
But Dances With Wolves was better than Crash.
Mar 06th 2006
25
RE: Your sig
Mar 06th 2006
66
My landlord here in LA is in the Academy. He hinted at an agenda...
Mar 06th 2006
28
I'm not really surprised that Crash won
Mar 06th 2006
29
Of the five, Munich was my choice for Best Picture. NAME YOURS.
Mar 06th 2006
30
Of the 5, Good Night, and Good Luck
Mar 06th 2006
35
Of the 5?
Mar 06th 2006
41
Munich, followed by Capote, followed by Good Night and Good Luck.
Mar 06th 2006
46
FrankLongo sucks Spielberg dick
Mar 06th 2006
143
      Perhaps it's my bias towards good screenwriting.
Mar 06th 2006
149
           *COUGH SPIT COUGH*
Mar 10th 2006
160
                If Munich was a piece of shit then Crash is doggy diarrhea
Mar 10th 2006
162
                wouldn't disagree....
Mar 14th 2006
172
                There is one thing that I think you TOTALLY misinterpreted in the film.
Mar 10th 2006
164
                     some thoughts....
Mar 14th 2006
173
none of them really blew me away
Mar 06th 2006
50
Nope, I can't get mad about it either.
Mar 06th 2006
59
Crash.
Mar 06th 2006
54
Brokeback Mountain.
Mar 06th 2006
70
Good Night and Good Luck
Mar 06th 2006
74
Munich...
Mar 06th 2006
91
1. Brokeback Mountain
Mar 06th 2006
99
Capote
Mar 06th 2006
103
Munich...landslide
Mar 06th 2006
106
And how does it compare with Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?
Mar 06th 2006
36
GWCTD is a VERY good movie. Crash is not.
Mar 06th 2006
39
FUN FACT
Mar 06th 2006
48
Dude.... Clooney was in a Killer Tomatos movie.
Mar 06th 2006
49
But this was like 6 months ago
Mar 06th 2006
51
      "Walker told me I have AIDS..."
Mar 06th 2006
68
           ^^^^The highlight of Paul Haggis' career^^^^^
Mar 06th 2006
104
ha ha ha ha ha h ah @ "fun fact"
Mar 06th 2006
69
Three Six Mafia has an Oscar, son.
Mar 06th 2006
71
Ummmm, Three Six is talented
Mar 06th 2006
85
      i agree.
Mar 06th 2006
125
it makes sense to me
Mar 06th 2006
80
so bad, Paul Haggis himself said "jesus christ!" when it won
Mar 06th 2006
52
You're nothing if not predictable
Mar 06th 2006
53
L.A. Times' Kenneth Turan on why Crash won. (swipe)
Mar 06th 2006
55
What bullshit
Mar 06th 2006
56
Yeah, there was another columnist who felt the same way, though...
Mar 06th 2006
57
      This column is trash
Mar 06th 2006
58
Bingo
Mar 06th 2006
61
He nailed it perfectly.
Mar 06th 2006
62
this paragraph is fantastic
Mar 06th 2006
63
YES. EXACTLY.
Mar 06th 2006
72
that man is a homosexual and he has an agenda
Mar 06th 2006
142
On point n/m
Mar 08th 2006
158
I was pretty mad, I was surprised when it even got a nomination
Mar 06th 2006
60
Well!
Mar 06th 2006
67
      yes, because thats exactly what I said
Mar 06th 2006
135
Driving Miss Daisy, anyone?
Mar 06th 2006
64
Co-sign
Mar 06th 2006
94
Forrest Gump. Sorry, that's just how I feel about it.
Mar 06th 2006
65
Mar 06th 2006
73
that's what the fuck you get for hatin' so hard...like a damned fool
Mar 06th 2006
75
Yeah, Gladiator's up there.
Mar 06th 2006
87
      What was it up against tho?
Mar 06th 2006
107
           Two much better films
Mar 06th 2006
148
Agree 100%
Mar 06th 2006
77
Co-sign with everything, especially the screenplay stuff
Mar 06th 2006
82
I just found out who actually liked Crash!
Mar 06th 2006
78
RE: I just found out who actually liked Crash!
Mar 06th 2006
117
what should have won, then?
Mar 06th 2006
81
But none of those films were so obnoxiously aware of their "tackling"
Mar 06th 2006
84
      ^^^ PERFECTLY ARTICULATED
Mar 06th 2006
86
      RE: But none of those films were so obnoxiously aware of their "tackling...
Mar 06th 2006
108
      I'm not saying he had to change the purpose of the film
Mar 06th 2006
136
      if childhood flashbacks of gay-bashings and mexican man whores
Mar 06th 2006
141
RE: WORST BEST PICTURE WINNER IN THE HISTORY OF OSCAR
Mar 06th 2006
88
I did too
Mar 06th 2006
89
You don't have to be a moron to like Crash
Mar 06th 2006
93
The African American Film Critics Association's '05 Top 10 list:
Mar 06th 2006
95
That's odd, since The Constant Gardener >>>>>>>>> Crash.
Mar 06th 2006
109
      so all of a sudden...
Mar 06th 2006
132
           ^^^^^CLEARLY never saw the constant gardener
Mar 06th 2006
137
           1. i saw the constant gardener in the theatre
Mar 06th 2006
144
                crash is a film about people being mean to each other
Mar 07th 2006
154
           I don't think he thinks he knows more, but I think his opinion is what h...
Mar 06th 2006
138
Ebert compares Crash to Charles Dickens (swipe)
Mar 06th 2006
96
Ebert just compared Haggis to Dickens. Instant L.
Mar 06th 2006
110
^^Has obviously never read 'A Tale of 2 Texas Rangers'^^
Mar 06th 2006
130
so the man who brought us facts of life and walker texas ranger
Mar 06th 2006
139
anyone who says 'crash made me think' is retarded
Mar 10th 2006
167
My commentary on this post:
Mar 06th 2006
98
L.A. Weekly's critic gets sonned by Ebert re: Crash (swipe)
Mar 06th 2006
100
This has already been posted, and Ebert is right in places
Mar 06th 2006
113
      i loved foundas' review
Mar 06th 2006
145
serious dialogue is my aim.
Mar 06th 2006
105
Good post
Mar 06th 2006
120
      This is one of the big problems of the movie.
Mar 06th 2006
121
are you really like, in real life, MAD mad at this?
Mar 06th 2006
111
lol.
Mar 06th 2006
112
Naw, I had a very nice breakfast of waffles and apple juice.
Mar 06th 2006
116
Crash wasn't amazing but it was better than Munich and MUCH better
Mar 06th 2006
115
I agree that Capote was much slept on.
Mar 06th 2006
122
      How was Capote slepted on?
Mar 06th 2006
126
           It was "slepted on" in the following way:
Mar 06th 2006
128
brother_donte's take on Crash winning an Oscar for Best Picture
Mar 06th 2006
124
^^^ THIS IS A POST EVERYONE SHOULD READ
Mar 06th 2006
129
we have read it, many times over
Mar 06th 2006
134
      No regurgitation...
Mar 08th 2006
157
my problem was also that crash is 100% emotion
Mar 06th 2006
140
If it makes you feel better
Mar 06th 2006
131
what i love about this
Mar 06th 2006
147
PSA: Crash wasn't even the best Terrance Howard/Ludacris movie.
Mar 06th 2006
150
right?!
Mar 07th 2006
155
More or less.
Mar 07th 2006
156
I dont get the comparission to Do The Right Thing
Mar 07th 2006
151
Anatomy of an Oscar win (swipe)
Mar 07th 2006
152
Anatomy of an Oscar win (swipe)
Mar 07th 2006
153
The real victim here is Chronenberg
Mar 09th 2006
159
He's openly hating on it
Mar 10th 2006
161
      Yeah, Memoirs of a Geisha was rather explicit in its Bush bashing
Mar 10th 2006
163
           RE: Yeah, Memoirs of a Geisha was rather explicit in its Bush bashing
Mar 10th 2006
165
           I don't think he was talking about technical awards
Mar 10th 2006
166
Crash =~ "Black or White" by Michael Jackson
Mar 10th 2006
168
having now seen it
Mar 11th 2006
169
Crash hate is a movement
Mar 12th 2006
170
A conversation on Crash:
Mar 12th 2006
171

phenompyrus
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9367 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:39 PM

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1. "Crash got a W, PTP got an L..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Mar-05-06 11:40 PM by phenompyrus

          

You guys should of listened to me from the beginning about this movie.
Oh well...
I liked it, so I don't give a fuck what you guys say.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:45 PM

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3. "yeah we might need to force-feed this L to PTP..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

...Do the Right Thing is not a better film. I'm sorry it's just not. It might tackle the issue in a more effective way but that doesn't make it a better FILM.

J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:46 PM

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4. "Dumbest Post of the Year Award goes to THIS:"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>...Do the Right Thing is not a better film. I'm sorry it's
>just not. It might tackle the issue in a more effective way
>but that doesn't make it a better FILM.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Mynoriti
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37325 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:47 PM

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5. "anyone who believes this shouldn't be allowed to watch movies"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>...Do the Right Thing is not a better film. I'm sorry it's
>just not.

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:53 PM

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9. ""
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:55 PM

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13. "Anyone with a brain will tell you DTRT >>>>>>>>> Crash."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:58 PM

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19. "you mad?"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          


J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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Mynoriti
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37325 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:03 AM

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27. "^^^hurt"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

well you obviously have feelings. it's your taste that's busted

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:07 AM

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33. "^^^ sitting in corner masturbating to radio raheem"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          


J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:11 AM

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37. "Dude, you're outnumbered here. I suggest you stop."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Is Paul Haggis your father or something? Does he owe you money? Is this Don Cheadle posting under an alias? You so clever, Donny! Why ain't you show up tonight, dawg?
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:15 AM

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42. "^^^crashed his schwin and waited all day for Matt Dillon to come"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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Bo_De_Ga
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:00 PM

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90. "lol"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

n/m

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:06 PM

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92. "lol & yes homo I'll assume"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:20 PM

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97. "^^^ doing the rosie perez dance while typing"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:00 AM

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22. "(POST JACK) *rubs eyes* The hell you been?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

___________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:07 AM

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31. "ironically I was up the street watching the oscars.."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

with a bunch of Crash fans

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:53 PM

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11. "And YOU, good sir, deserve a major, worldwide L for posting that bullshi..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

I mean, I'm not as angry as my peoples are about Crash winning (in fact, I ain't mad at all), but come on, money.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:56 PM

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16. "nah fam...y'all deserve an L for acting like DTRT is..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

...the race-relations bible


J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:58 PM

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18. "It isn't. But it's a bajillion times better than Crash."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:56 PM

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17. "Yeah, that was a pretty stupid thing to say."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>...Do the Right Thing is not a better film. I'm sorry it's
>just not. It might tackle the issue in a more effective way
>but that doesn't make it a better FILM.

Like -- really stupid.

  

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bignick
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24054 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 09:09 AM

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76. "wow. is this ever wrong."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>...Do the Right Thing is not a better film. I'm sorry it's
>just not. It might tackle the issue in a more effective way
>but that doesn't make it a better FILM.

  

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jigga
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:30 PM

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101. "not entirely"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

>>...Do the Right Thing is not a better film.

Fiction

I'm sorry it's
>>just not.

We're sorry people feel that way

It might tackle the issue in a more effective way
>>but that doesn't make it a better FILM.

Ok this is where the statement has some truth 2 it. As tackling the subject of racism in a more effective way isnt the ONLY thing that makes it a better film. There's dozens of more things about it that make it a better film.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:12 PM

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118. "But Crash doesn't tackle any issues."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

It just says, "There's tension between races today." Useful to the 2 people who didn't know this.

And it also sets it up with the very shitty and awful car crash metaphor. Terrible, terrible writing.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 04:21 PM

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133. "EXACTLY!!!"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

thank you! now i know you didn't co-sign my entire post but you at least lent some kind of credibility to the point i am most passionate about: that it is possible that Crash is a better FILM meaning everything that the film is — acting, dialogue, the story, the music, etc.

i am a huge Spike Lee fan and I absolutely adore DTRT but I don't think it's a better film than Crash. Why is that so effing hard to believe. And why do people on here have holier than thou opinions on movies? I hated The English Patient, Shakespeare in Love and the fact Hoop Dreams and Grizzly Man didn't even receive nods. But when a bunch of actors, directors, crew members vote for a film it's a pretty big statement about that film. It all comes down to the fact that movie choice, like music, is subjective.

I just hate when people try to say a person is stupid or doesn't know anything because they like a certain movie. THAT'S dumb.

  

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Morehouse
Member since Feb 25th 2003
7568 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:08 PM

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114. "why are people comparing "do the right thing" to "crash""
In response to Reply # 3


  

          



?





***********************************

myself is sculptor of
your body’s idiom:
the musician of your wrists;
the poet who is afraid
only to mistranslate
a rhythm in your hair...
-E.E. Cummings

  

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tappenzee
Member since Sep 28th 2002
19839 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 08:52 PM

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146. "RE: why are people comparing "do the right thing" to "crash""
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

Dago, garlic-breath, guinea, pizza-slingin', spaghetti-bendin', Vic Damone, Perry Como, Luciano Pavarotti, Sole Mio, nonsingin' motherfucker!

You gold-teeth-gold-chain-wearin', fried-chicken-and-biscuit-eatin', monkey, ape, baboon, big thigh, fast-runnin', three-hundred-sixty-degree-basketball-dunkin' spade moulignan.

You slant-eyed, me-no-speak-American, own every fruit and vegetable stand in New York, Reverend Moon, Summer Olympics '88, Korean kick-boxing bastard.

Goya bean-eating, fifteen in a car, thirty in an apartment, pointed shoes, red-wearing, Menudo, meda-meda Puerto Rican cocksucker.

It's cheap, I got a good price for you, Mayor Koch, "How I'm doing," chocolate-egg-cream-drinking, bagel and lox, B'nai B'rith asshole.

  

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brother_donte
Member since Dec 03rd 2002
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:44 PM

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123. "RE: yeah we might need to force-feed this L to PTP..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

It might tackle the issue in a more effective way
>but that doesn't make it a better FILM.

Could you elaborate on this, please? Sorry, but I just don't buy it.


BROTHER_DONTE
mcfaddendonte@gmail.com

A profile on Milwaukee's poetry scene:
http://www.mkeonline.com/story.asp?id=333698

More about yours truly:
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s t a r s k y
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
2396 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:56 PM

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127. ""
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
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Sun Mar-05-06 11:39 PM

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2. "Ha, ha!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I called it...but it could've gone to another film.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:49 PM

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6. "Shakespeare in Love beat Saving Private Ryan, also Rocky..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Mar-05-06 11:50 PM by celery77

  

          

...Rocky beat like Taxi Driver, Network, and something else incredible. And Chicago. I mean, there's been some bad ones.

Also, I don't really like Saving Private Ryan that much so I don't really care, but I mean it's obviously fucking better than Shakespeare in Love.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sun Mar-05-06 11:52 PM

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8. "Shakespeare in Love, Rocky, and Chicago were ALL better than Crash"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>...Rocky beat like Taxi Driver, Network, and something else
>incredible. And Chicago. I mean, there's been some bad
>ones.
>
>Also, I don't really like Saving Private Ryan that much so I
>don't really care, but I mean it's obviously fucking better
>than Shakespeare in Love.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Sun Mar-05-06 11:54 PM

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12. "Well, you're probably right. I personally hated A Beautiful Mind..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

...way more than Crash, but that's neither here nor there.

And Crash had SOME good scenes, even you can see that.

  

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UncleClimax
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Mon Mar-06-06 10:52 AM

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79. "since when is shakespeare in love not tight?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

much better than saving private dumbass.

__________________
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“Be uncomfortable; be sand, not oil, to the machinery of the world.”
- Gunter Eich

  

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TurkeylegJenkins
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Mon Mar-06-06 11:43 AM

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83. "How'd you figure?"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          


_______________________________________________________________________________

Hot to Trotsky: http://www.regeneratedheadpiece.com

<------- Harry Carson, Pro Football Hall of Fame, 2006

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:36 PM

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102. "I'd actually agree with Climax on that one"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

Private Ryan doesn't hold well over multiple viewings, I've found. So much of it's impact was on the graphic nature of the battle scenes. You can't help but be overwhelmed by them. However, when you're trying to watch it for, say, the third time, those scenes don't have the same powerful effect. At least not on me.

It's still a good film, and incredibly ambitious, but it's pacing and storytelling is not very good, I've found.

Meanwhile, like I think every person walking the Earth with a penis, I hated Shakespeare In Love right from jump. Love, Shakespeare, Judy Dench. That's not a mix that appeals to men.

But if you watch the film, it's incredibly well done. Delightful performances from top to bottom, wonderful dialogue.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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TurkeylegJenkins
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:13 PM

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119. "I disagree"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

Shakespeare in Love was a nice, cute little picture. I didn't hate it, but I wasn't particularly impressed by it either. It's not memorable.

Saving Private Ryan is far from perfect (the ending, with the old man in the cemetary was way corny) but it had some unforgettable moments and was, on the whole, far superior to Shakespeare in Love.

Spielberg was robbed.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Hot to Trotsky: http://www.regeneratedheadpiece.com

<------- Harry Carson, Pro Football Hall of Fame, 2006

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:51 PM

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7. "It has NOT been a good weekend for Frank Longo (c) Marv Albert"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm sorry, I'm laughing at you guys... y'all are my peoples, but really... come on, gang...
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:53 PM

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10. "It has been a very bad weekend for me. But in all seriousness..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

...I can't think of a worse Best Picture winner in at least the last 25 years.

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For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14480 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:59 PM

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20. "Dude...... I know you hate CRASH... but it's better than TITANIC"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

-- Nate

_
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http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:02 AM

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24. "I am hesitant to agree with that."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

At least Titanic had nice cinematography, a cool action sequence, an extended clear shot of titties, and acting that is by no stretch of the imagination terrible.

Crash also suffers from the worst original score in recent memory.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14480 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:12 AM

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38. "Your titty argument is flawed."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Jennifer Esposito's sweet ass tits > Kate Winslet's heavenly funbags.

-- Nate

_
http://www.yothatsmyjawn.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:18 AM

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44. "But Esposito's tits didn't get NEARLY as clear exposure as Kate's did"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Haggis tried to hide Esposito's titties in darkness. He clearly doesn't appreciate boobs the way James Cameron does.

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For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:23 AM

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47. "But her nipples are better. Darkness or not."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

-- Nate

_
http://www.yothatsmyjawn.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:17 AM

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43. "Oh shit I'd forgotten about the score. Yeah, that SUCKED."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>Crash also suffers from the worst original score in recent
>memory.

As for the other topic, I would SOOOO rather watch Titanic again than Crash, and I don't even hate Crash nearly as much as some of the posters here do.

  

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98.6
Member since Mar 29th 2005
3019 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:55 PM

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14. "lolol post of the year.."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

he mad

we are simply the Best

  

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98.6
Member since Mar 29th 2005
3019 posts
Sun Mar-05-06 11:56 PM

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15. "lolol post of the year.."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

he mad

we are simply the Best

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
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Sun Mar-05-06 11:59 PM

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21. "Bad, but not even close to the worst"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dances With Wolves beat out GOODFELLAS. In real life. This ACTUALLY happened. Crash beating out other films that weren't really great is not even close.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:01 AM

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23. "That's the other thing, there were no good nominees this year"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

I know that probably has more to do with Hollywood's stupid tunnel vision and determination to give the award to their big money-makers, but it's not like Crash really snubbed an ACTUALLY good film like that one, and some of the other ones I mentioned did.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:03 AM

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26. "I can't agree at all-- Good Night and Good Luck, Capote, Munich"
In response to Reply # 23
Mon Mar-06-06 12:03 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

all three were really great movies.

Crash isn't the biggest UPSET in Oscar history. But it is the worst actual film that won in Oscar history.

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For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:09 AM

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34. "GN&GL was hardly great"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

It was good. Maybe even very good, but far from great. The only great movie that IMO came out in '05 was Cinderella Man (aside from animated films and documentaries that could never win Best Picture). It's not like anything legendary came out this year and lost to Crash. This wasn't even the worst win for anything Crash-related in tonight's Oscars. That happened when Crash inexplicably beat out Match Pint and Syriana in the original screenplay category.

And Dances With Wolves is barely among the best Kevin Costner films ever, and that's saying something.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:15 AM

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40. "I've really hated the Best O. Screenplay category for a few years"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

>This wasn't even the worst win
>for anything Crash-related in tonight's Oscars. That happened
>when Crash inexplicably beat out Match Pint and Syriana in the
>original screenplay category.

I remember in the year that A Beautiful Mind was winning stuff it was in this category against Amelie, Royal Tenenbaums, Memento, and ... something else pretty good, if I remember. And I remember that was the one category where I said, "Well shit -- at least SOMEBODY deserving will get this award. A Beautiful Mind is lock for Best Picture they can throw the smaller releases a bone in this category and let them get some pub."

Nope, A Beautiful Mind won that category, too, and whatever sliver of faith I still had that even the Academy can accidentally give a good award from time to time was irrevocably lost.

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:18 AM

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45. "What won it for Crash?"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Blake right?

She wouldn't get mad if she knew I was fucking a Mexican?

Oh shit we hit a Chinaman?

Do they read the screenplays in addition to watching the movie? Because they probably should.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:07 AM

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32. "The other nominees were good"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

There were no Goodfellas or Pulp Fictions or L.A. Confidentials or Traffics this year that were all-time classics, but cotdamnit, this film was bad and the others were good. And this film was really bad. So the outrage makes sesne.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:02 AM

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25. "But Dances With Wolves was better than Crash."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

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For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 07:28 AM

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66. "RE: Your sig"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

I'm still reeling @ the fact that 3-6 Mafia has an Oscar now. First Lil Kim wins a Grammy 4 Lady Marmalade, now this. Only in Am. LOL!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Solaam
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2997 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:04 AM

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28. "My landlord here in LA is in the Academy. He hinted at an agenda..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think he was saying how there is the perception of the Academy blindly
voting for films that have either a gay storyline or mentally challenged protagonist.
I guess there's been a conscious change.

So I'm not really surprised at Crash winning.

Horrible deciosion by the way IMHO.




PS3/Xbox ID: BackDo Do
Wii: Solaam

  

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Mynoriti
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37325 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:04 AM

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29. "I'm not really surprised that Crash won"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm more surprised that Brokeback didn't

Brokeback was is the only one I haven't seen yet. I just assumed it was a lock though.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:05 AM

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30. "Of the five, Munich was my choice for Best Picture. NAME YOURS."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-06-06 12:07 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

It really was a fantastic movie. But I knew it had no chance of winning.

Matter of fact, instead of all this negativity and shit, why doesn't everyone list their choice for Best Picture, of the 5, and "anything but Crash" isn't an acceptable answer...
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:10 AM

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35. "Of the 5, Good Night, and Good Luck"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

But I thought Munich and Brokeback were really good films as well. And I liked Capote as well, even if it wouldn't have been in my top 10 flicks of last year, much less 5.

  

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Marauder21
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49516 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:15 AM

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41. "Of the 5?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I never saw Mucih, so I'd have to say Good Night & God Luck, although Cinderella Man>>>>>>>anything that was nominated.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:19 AM

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46. "Munich, followed by Capote, followed by Good Night and Good Luck."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

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For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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janey
Charter member
123120 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 06:50 PM

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143. "FrankLongo sucks Spielberg dick"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Ock, I can't believe you complain about Haggis but think that SPIELBERG's flick should have won.

You have lost any credibility you might have had with me.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 11:29 PM

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149. "Perhaps it's my bias towards good screenwriting."
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

Who knows?

Capote would have made me equally happy actually. It was somewhat of a tossup that Spielberg won.

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fatlip
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1954 posts
Fri Mar-10-06 01:44 PM

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160. "*COUGH SPIT COUGH*"
In response to Reply # 149


          

did you just say Munich was good screen writing?

damn dude, i have been lurking here for years, i'll preface this by saying yours and janeys opinions are two that i respect in this duncecap revelry.

but munich???

i guess technically it is good writing...
but its problematic politics and framing, what i accept as a subverted zionist agenda...

its like these fucking lists that say "birth of a nation" is one of the greatest films of all time, because of what it did for narrative film making.

i'm sorry you will not convince me that you can divorce content from construct.

munich was a piece of shit.

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Fri Mar-10-06 02:36 PM

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162. "If Munich was a piece of shit then Crash is doggy diarrhea"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

And the dog was probably a St. Bernard or Newfoudland


  

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fatlip
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1954 posts
Tue Mar-14-06 11:57 AM

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172. "wouldn't disagree...."
In response to Reply # 162


          

maybe i don't share the same intensity of dislike for crash you do, but i def thought it was an average film and clearly not the best film of the year by mine OR by the academy's standard.

but the topic at hand is munich. which is booty.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Fri Mar-10-06 04:19 PM

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164. "There is one thing that I think you TOTALLY misinterpreted in the film."
In response to Reply # 160


  

          


>but its problematic politics and framing, what i accept as a
>subverted zionist agenda...
>
>its like these fucking lists that say "birth of a nation" is
>one of the greatest films of all time, because of what it did
>for narrative film making.
>
>i'm sorry you will not convince me that you can divorce
>content from construct.
>
>munich was a piece of shit.

Talk to any Jewish person who saw Munich. They did NOT see Munich as Zionist. In fact, I know a lot of Jewish people who thought it disgraced the state of Israel and made it look terrible.

I think the genius of the writing is because so many people took away different things from it, all of it dark and the opposite of so many Spielbergian endings of late.

Plus, the dialogue just CRACKLED in it. I loved it.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
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fatlip
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1954 posts
Tue Mar-14-06 12:42 PM

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173. "some thoughts...."
In response to Reply # 164


          

to comment on your second point, i think even in its un-speilberg/"dark" ending, it was done in a speilberg way. heavy handed, overstated, force-fed. i mean, the twin towers in the last frame of the film? unnecessary and i think it was very unclear what he was trying to convey. we are watching a movie about israeli assasins in the 70's, no part of which is in the US until the last 5 minutes of the film, and he jumps to the twin towers? i think he's relying on the sensation and sentiment to fill VERY large gaps.

i, like you, love when a film gives everyone their own reactions. werner herzog is a great example of this. or even harmony korine's "julien donkey boy". i think this film gives people different reactions because it is convoluted and misleading not because it is constructed well (i actually think the abduction scene in the dorms is great, technically).

>
>Talk to any Jewish person who saw Munich. They did NOT see
>Munich as Zionist. In fact, I know a lot of Jewish people who
>thought it disgraced the state of Israel and made it look
>terrible.
>

from this (correct me if i'm off base) you are saying that if it makes jewish people mad then it isn't biased or doesn't reaffirm the polticial/social power structure that frames the debate on israel/palestine? i can't accept that. why should the sentiment of a jewish movie-goer be the yardstick or barometer of bias and fairness in film?

in fact, i think this is what is most bullshit about this film. that is even suggests or is critical of israel gives it legitimacy. it warms us up to assasins with a conscience. at the end of the film i found the film asking me to feel sorry or understand an assasin's moral crisis (an assasin working for an occupying power, no less), which is just comedic at best.

the film should be retitled "sensitive sweet killers".

for your reference i am attaching a pretty good read of the film by a professor at Columbia. (to be clear, from the first post i am admitting my bias towards justice, equality, and human rights....and the concept that you cannot divorce content from construct):

------------------

>Baking the cake
>
>Steven Spielberg's Munich, writes Joseph Massad*, legitimises
>Israeli policy towards Palestinians while nodding away any moral
>qualms
>
>"The best baklava is made by the Arabs in Jaffa," insists the Mossad
>case officer to his chief agent in charge of assassinating those
>Palestinians Israel claims planned the Munich operation of 1972.
>Besides being excellent baklava-makers, we learn little else in
>Steven Spielberg's film Munich about Jaffa's Palestinians, the
>majority of whom were pushed into the sea by Zionist forces in May
>1948. Many drowned while the rest escaped on boats to Lebanon never
>to be allowed to return. But Munich is not about these Palestinians;
>it is, emphatically, about
Israeli Jews and Israeli terrorism.
>
>In the context of Hollywood's cinematic history, Munich is not the
>first film to discuss Israeli terror. Otto Preminger's 1960 film
>Exodus was in essence a celebration of Jewish terrorism. Like
>Exodus, Munich poses moral questions about terrorist methods, about
>whether the end justifies the means as it chronicles the pangs of
>conscience troubling Israeli terrorists as they murder Palestinian
>poets, writers, and politicians across Europe and in Lebanon. To a
>considerable extent Munich is having the same impact on American
>audiences, and is playing the same role, as Exod us did in
>legitimising Israeli policies and the Zionist project.
>
>Exodus was the major cinematic achievement of the Zionist movement.
>The film popularised the Zionist cause and continues to inspire
>young American and European Zionists. The film was most effective
>in
staging the determination and desperation of the Zionist
>leadership, depicted as having no choice but to conquer Palestine
>and make it the Jewish State. Exodus tells the story of the Zionist
>hijacking of a ship from Cyprus to Palestine by Haganah commander
>Ari Ben Canaan, who then threatens to blow it apart, and the 611
>Jewish passengers it is carrying, with 200 pounds of dynamite. The
>film depicts the Jewish refugee passengers voting in favour of the
>plan, transforming the terrorist threat into a suicide bombing.
>Indeed, Jewish mothers refuse to let their children disembark when
>Ben Canaan asks them to, insisting that their children should die
>with them should they carry out the suicide bombing.
>
>Exodus insists that Ben Canaan's threat of suicide bombing is not an
>idle one. In the extra- fictional world the film references, the
>Zionists had blown up a similar ship in November 1940
killing 242
>Jewish refugees. When questioned by a young American widow about
>the purpose of sacrificing so many lives, Ben Canaan tells her
>"call it publicity, a stunt to attract attention". He avers that
>"each person aboard this ship is a soldier. The only weapon we have
>to fight with is our willingness to die."
>
>Haganah, shown in the film as engaging in suicide bombings to
>achieve its goals, is contrasted with the terrorist Irgun which in
>the film targets the British -- but not Arabs! -- in non-suicide
>operations. Exodus finally reconciles whatever misgivings it has
>about Irgun-style terrorism with its approved version of
>Haganah-style suicide- bombings, in the interest of unifying both
>forces for the purpose of establishing the Jewish State. The
>Israeli national anthem Hatikvah, stolen from gentile Czech
>composer Bedrich Smetana's symphonic poems Mΰ Vlast, is played
ad
>nauseam in the film to drive the message home. The major
>achievement of Exodus, besides disseminating the Zionist story, was
>to eliminate the Palestinian people, whose lands and lives were
>being stolen by the Zionist project, from the equation. Munich need
>not dabble with such existential questions, as the matter of
>Israel's existence on stolen Palestinian land and at the expense of
>Palestinian lives had been settled in Exodus. Munich simply wants to
>update the story. Script co-writer Tony Kushner was clear on this
>point in a recent article written for the Los Angeles Times : "My
>criticism of Israel has always been accompanied by declarations of
>unconditional support of Israel's right to exist, and I believe
>that the global community has a responsibility to defend that
>right. I have written and spoken of my love for Israel."
>
>Only one Palestinian, Taha, is allowed to speak in
Exodus, and then
>only in order to praise Zionism. Taha in fact drinks a toast to the
>Zionist conquest of his people's land and lives. Exodus depicts
>Jewish colonists as ultra-civilised compared to the Palestinians,
>shown throughout the film in Bedouin garb, parading as village and
>city apparel, as a measure of their backwardness. Munich employs
>similar cinematic tactics, even though when it shows Palestinians
>in "civilised" Western garb it reminds viewers they are no
>different from the inhabitants of Arab villages. If Ari Ben Canaan
>is a cultured man who knows his way around a French menu and wine
>list, so Munich 's Avner Kaufman is a gourmet cook and a sensual
>lover, though his taste in erotic fantasies is questionable. Unlike
>Exodus 's more protracted focus on a number of characters, Munich
>focuses exclusively on the character of Avner, exploring his inner
>conflict, his love for his
wife and yearning for his newborn child,
>as well as his troubled relationship with his parents -- the
>generational connections it makes are illustrative of an
>established past for Jewish colonists in Israel and an uncertain
>future for their grandchildren.
>
>The film also describes the moral conflicts of the other members of
>Avner's terrorist cell, inspired by what Robert, the explosives
>expert, presents as Jewish ethics. Robert, who learned his
>expertise at the hands of the Israeli secret police, the Shin Bet,
>is unable to reconcile his Jewish ethics with his Israeli training
>and finally quits the killing spree. He is reminiscent of Dov
>Landau, the young Irgun explosives expert in Exodus who learned his
>skills from the Nazis in Auschwitz when he had to dynamite the
>ground to make trenches for the burial of exterminated Jews. Unlike
>Munich 's Robert, Landau had no qualms about
killing Jews, Arabs and
>Britons when he blew up the King David Hotel. Landau's major trauma,
>as presented in the film, was not his internment in Auschwitz or his
>witnessing of the gassing of Jews and participation in their burial.
>The only thing that made him cry was his rape by the Nazis ("they
>used me as you would use a woman") which impelled him to join the
>Irgun as a restorative act of lost manhood. Robert, in contrast,
>has little problem sharing a homoerotic moment of dancing with
>Steve to celebrate the murder of Wa'il Zu'aytar in Rome. The sexual
>politics of Zionism have certainly progressed, or so we are led to
>believe watching Munich.
>
>The moral qualms that Robert and other members of the terrorist cell
>express strike the educated viewer as uncanny: documentary accounts
>of, and interviews with, Mossad agents show them to have a strong
>ideological commitment and
determination to kill enemy Palestinians
>with no moral questioning. It is diaspora Jewish supporters of
>Israel who -- infrequently -- feign moral dilemmas (and also, on
>occasion, those Israelis called upon to perform before the
>international media). Spielberg, being one of them, expressed his
>dilemmas in clear terms to the London Times : he and his family
>"love Israel, we support Israel, we have unqualified support for
>Israel, which has struggled, surrounded by enemies, ever since its
>statehood was declared... I feel very proud to stand right
>alongside all of my friends in Israel; and yet I can ask questions
>about these very, very sensitive issues between Israelis and
>Palestinians and the whole quest for a homeland."
>
>Munich is a film in which Spielberg, Kushner and similar-minded
>diaspora supporters, and not Israeli Mossad agents, may recognise
>themselves. The moral questions
that Munich poses have more to do
>with the souls of Israeli Jews. In that, the film does not deviate
>much from Zionist propaganda, which has always claimed that Jewish
>soldiers "shoot and cry". Golda Meir, who is depicted in the film
>as a righteous and lovable leader, once said, "We can forgive you
>for killing our sons. But we will never forgive you for making us
>kill yours."
>
>It is this racist sentiment that structures the story Munich wants
>to tell. The fact that Palestinian violence was in response to
>Zionist conquest and murder is immaterial to Spielberg's reasoning,
>as is the fact that many Palestinians are willing to forgive Israeli
>Jews for the continued theft of their lands and livelihoods, the
>continued oppression the Israelis visit upon all Palestinian
>communities in Palestine and the diaspora, and for the major role
>Israeli and diaspora Jews play in the Israeli and
Western media in
>transforming Palestinians from victims of Israeli terror into
>perpetrators of it. Spielberg, an active participant in such media
>depictions, humanises Israeli terrorists in Munich but not
>Palestinian terrorists, who are portrayed as having no conscience.
>It seems that unlike their Israeli counterparts, Palestinians shoot
>but do not cry! We see the Israeli murderers laugh, cry, make love,
>cook, eat, kill, regret, question authority, but we also see them
>lose their souls. While Munich wonders whether the policy of
>terrorism that Golda Meir unleashed out of anguish at the murder of
>Israeli athletes might have been misguided, the film insists that it
>is the Palestinians who forced the choice of terror on Israel.
>Munich 's point of contention with Meir's policy rests on its claim
>that because Jews have a morally superior code Israel need not
>respond to the Palestinians in
kind, a sentiment articulated by
>Robert, the explosives-expert.
>
>Some of the legitimacy that Spielberg and Kushner hope the film will
>receive comes from Zionist dissatisfaction with it, which to the US
>media confirms Munich 's "objectivity". In the same manner,
>Sharon's policies have been presented as "fair" when opposed by
>Palestinians, and by Israelis to the right of Sharon. While this
>simple-minded tactic works with naοve US audiences, it has a harder
>time persuading more savvy audiences outside the country.
>
>As in Exodus, Palestinians in Munich ventriloquise the worst that
>Zionist propaganda says they say. If the good Palestinian in Exodus
>was the collaborator Taha, killed by the Palestinians for his
>treason, Munich offers the terrorist Ali who, in being killed by
>the Israelis for not being like Taha, confirms that the only good
>Palestinian is a dead Palestinian. As
for the rest of the
>Palestinian people, Munich, like the Israeli authorities, hopes
>that they stick to making baklava and stop the resistance to
>Israeli oppression that forces Israel to kill them and, in so
>doing, forces moral dilemmas on Spielberg, Kushner and some of
>Israel's other supporters in the diaspora.
>
>* The writer is associate professor of modern Arab politics and
>intellectual history at Columbia University. His book The
>Persistence of the Palestinian Question will be published by
>Routledge in February.







  

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Mynoriti
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50. "none of them really blew me away"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I haven't seen Brokeback yet though.

Munich I really liked but it felt oddly paced at times. Capote was solid but wasn't as good as Hoffman was. Good Night and Good Luck, as well done as it was bored the shit out of me.

Then there's Crash. Like I said, I'm wasn't surprised it won as much as I was that Brokeback didn't. but I aint gonna get all bothered by it like I did last year when this guy Marty ..er.. didn't win.

If I had to chose I guess I'd pick Munich also.

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:24 AM

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59. "Nope, I can't get mad about it either."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

The Academy is trying to appeal to a wider audience. If they were really looking for the best picture w/o the politics or the bullshit, then Crash wouldn't have got nominated. I don't think that Crash is a bad film. Just not a Best Picture.

On a side note, IMO Scorsese should've lost last year simply b/c MDB>The Aviator.


"Being the bigger man is overrated." -- Huey (The Boondocks)

myspace.com/dozingoff

  

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CMcMurtry
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54. "Crash."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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HotThyng76
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Mon Mar-06-06 08:36 AM

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70. "Brokeback Mountain."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

there was no competition.

  

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B9
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74. "Good Night and Good Luck"
In response to Reply # 30


          

Crash was bullshit.

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:03 PM

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91. "Munich..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

But I haven't seen brokeback mountain.


-------------
"Cosbyness is next to Godliness" - Grandpa "Bitches" Freeman

  

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okaycomputer
Member since Dec 02nd 2002
8090 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:22 PM

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99. "1. Brokeback Mountain"
In response to Reply # 30


          

2. Good Night, and Good Luck
3. Capote
4. Crash
5. Munich

  

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FrankEinstein
Member since Dec 03rd 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:41 PM

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103. "Capote"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

...followed by Brokeback, then Good Night and Good Luck.

Crash was my least favorite of the nominees, but all in all, I thought this was a pretty good year for mainstream American films.

  

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jigga
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106. "Munich...landslide"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Good Night & Good Luck would've been my runner up

I didnt see Brokeback or Capote but the 2 I did see were both much better than Crash.

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:11 AM

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36. "And how does it compare with Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Which I've heard from critics is generally considered the worst film to ever win Best Picture. Not because it's bad, but because it was a decent/good film that was "topical" and won a best picture for it.

I've never seen GWCTD so I can't compare.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:13 AM

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39. "GWCTD is a VERY good movie. Crash is not."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Marauder21
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48. "FUN FACT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

When not wrting screenplays for Crash and Million Dollar Baby, Paul Haggis was hard at work on 2005's made for TV movie Walker, Texas Ranger: Trial by Fire.

THIS MOTHERFUCKER HAS 3 OSCARS AND DID A WALKER TEXAS RANGER TV MOVIE! Can't he be stripped of them, like when Vanessa Williams lost her Miss America title because of her titty/lesbo pics?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:26 AM

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49. "Dude.... Clooney was in a Killer Tomatos movie."
In response to Reply # 48
Mon Mar-06-06 12:41 AM by CaptNish

  

          

Halle was in Catwoman. If they are taking away awards....

-- Nate

_
http://www.yothatsmyjawn.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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Marauder21
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51. "But this was like 6 months ago"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

And it's WALKER TEXAS RANGER.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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dao_rida
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68. ""Walker told me I have AIDS...""
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

...(c) That 6th Sense Kid

__________________________________
The man. The myth. The Ruiz.

  

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Marauder21
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104. "^^^^The highlight of Paul Haggis' career^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

Now see, he actually deserves an award for that.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
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69. "ha ha ha ha ha h ah @ "fun fact""
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

lol...

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

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HotThyng76
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71. "Three Six Mafia has an Oscar, son."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

EVERYBODY is entitled to keep their trophy as long as Three Six has 1. if we're going to make award consideration about class and/or level/worthiness of previous work then as long as Three Six is keeping theirs everybody else is fine.

  

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Marauder21
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85. "Ummmm, Three Six is talented"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

And deserving of an Oscar as they actually wrote the best song from a movie last year (actually the best 2).

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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HotThyng76
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125. "i agree."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

  

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DrNO
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80. "it makes sense to me"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

HE CREATED THE SERIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Mon Mar-06-06 12:43 AM

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52. "so bad, Paul Haggis himself said "jesus christ!" when it won"
In response to Reply # 0


          

naa, i'm not gonna say anything about Crash because, well, i haven't seen it. I don't have much interest either.

  

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CMcMurtry
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:32 AM

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53. "You're nothing if not predictable"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I guess we'll have to hear all the bitching about this for a year now.GREAT.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:50 AM

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55. "L.A. Times' Kenneth Turan on why Crash won. (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Why 'Crash' won

When the chance came to make a statement, the academy played it safe.

By Kenneth Turan, Times Staff Writer

March 5, 2006

Sometimes you win by losing, and nothing has proved what a powerful, taboo-breaking, necessary film "Brokeback Mountain" was more than its loss Sunday night to "Crash" in the Oscar best picture category.

Despite all the magazine covers it graced, despite all the red-state theaters it made good money in, despite (or maybe because of) all the jokes late-night talk show hosts made about it, you could not take the pulse of the industry without realizing that this film made a number of people distinctly uncomfortable.

More than any other of the nominated films, "Brokeback Mountain" was the one people told me they really didn't feel like seeing, didn't really get, didn't understand the fuss over. Did I really like it, they wanted to know. Yes, I really did.

In the privacy of the voting booth, as many political candidates who've led in polls only to lose elections have found out, people are free to act out the unspoken fears and unconscious prejudices that they would never breathe to another soul, or, likely, acknowledge to themselves. And at least this year, that acting out doomed "Brokeback Mountain."

For Hollywood, as a whole laundry list of people announced from the podium Sunday night and a lengthy montage of clips tried to emphasize, is a liberal place, a place that prides itself on its progressive agenda. If this were a year when voters had no other palatable options, they might have taken a deep breath and voted for "Brokeback." This year, however, "Crash" was poised to be the spoiler.

I do not for one minute question the sincerity and integrity of the people who made "Crash," and I do not question their commitment to wanting a more equal society. But I do question the film they've made. It may be true, as producer Cathy Schulman said in accepting the Oscar for best picture, that this was "one of the most breathtaking and stunning maverick years in American history," but "Crash" is not an example of that.

I don't care how much trouble "Crash" had getting financing or getting people on board, the reality of this film, the reason it won the best picture Oscar, is that it is, at its core, a standard Hollywood movie, as manipulative and unrealistic as the day is long. And something more.

For "Crash's" biggest asset is its ability to give people a carload of those standard Hollywood satisfactions but make them think they are seeing something groundbreaking and daring. It is, in some ways, a feel-good film about racism, a film you could see and feel like a better person, a film that could make you believe that you had done your moral duty and examined your soul when in fact you were just getting your buttons pushed and your preconceptions reconfirmed.

So for people who were discomfited by "Brokeback Mountain" but wanted to be able to look themselves in the mirror and feel like they were good, productive liberals, "Crash" provided the perfect safe harbor. They could vote for it in good conscience, vote for it and feel they had made a progressive move, vote for it and not feel that there was any stain on their liberal credentials for shunning what "Brokeback" had to offer. And that's exactly what they did.

"Brokeback," it is worth noting, was in some ways the tamest of the discomforting films available to Oscar voters in various categories. Steven Spielberg's "Munich"; the Palestinian Territories' "Paradise Now," one of the best foreign language nominees; and the documentary nominee "Darwin's Nightmare" offered scenarios that truly shook up people's normal ways of seeing the world. None of them won a thing.

Hollywood, of course, is under no obligation to be a progressive force in the world. It is in the business of entertainment, in the business of making the most dollars it can. Yes, on Oscar night, it likes to pat itself on the back for the good it does in the world, but as Sunday night's ceremony proved, it is easier to congratulate yourself for a job well done in the past than actually do that job in the present.
________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:57 AM

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56. "What bullshit"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

This isn't a case of Pulp Fiction losing to Forrest Gump. If they wanted to play it safe, they wouldn't have gone with Crash.

Maybe the Academy just thinks Crash was the best movie.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:07 AM

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57. "Yeah, there was another columnist who felt the same way, though..."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

Nikki Finke at the L.A. Weekly actually called this win back in February... for pretty much the same reasons...

http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_lawcontent&task=view&id=12564&Itemid=116

I mean, I don't really care either way, I thought Crash was fine... but, I figured I'd present the other sides of the story since that's what this post is for...
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:22 AM

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58. "This column is trash"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

He can't seriously believe this shit.

LMAO @ invaded by right-wing punditry.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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DrNO
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:34 AM

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61. "Bingo"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:35 AM

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62. "He nailed it perfectly."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
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Mon Mar-06-06 03:52 AM

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63. "this paragraph is fantastic"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>For "Crash's" biggest asset is its ability to give people a
>carload of those standard Hollywood satisfactions but make
>them think they are seeing something groundbreaking and
>daring. It is, in some ways, a feel-good film about racism, a
>film you could see and feel like a better person, a film that
>could make you believe that you had done your moral duty and
>examined your soul when in fact you were just getting your
>buttons pushed and your preconceptions reconfirmed.

i also like the paragraph about the films (munich, pardise now, darwin) that actually shook up people's perspectives. there were a number of films last year that were truly persuasive and progressive. crash was not one of them. the constant gardener wasn't even nominated, and that film had WORLDS more to say about modern-day racism and a message that was IMMEASURABLY more relevant (the exploition of africa by drug companies/big corporations). crash would have been great 40 years ago. in 2005, it's message is laughably inane and outdated.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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HotThyng76
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Mon Mar-06-06 08:40 AM

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72. "YES. EXACTLY."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Mon Mar-06-06 06:09 PM

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142. "that man is a homosexual and he has an agenda"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

nm

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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brother_donte
Member since Dec 03rd 2002
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Wed Mar-08-06 05:28 PM

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158. "On point n/m"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

BROTHER_DONTE
mcfaddendonte@gmail.com

A profile on Milwaukee's poetry scene:
http://www.mkeonline.com/story.asp?id=333698

More about yours truly:
http://www.myspace.com/mcfaddendonte

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:32 AM

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60. "I was pretty mad, I was surprised when it even got a nomination"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Its bullshit that a movie would win because imo its a sexy topic rather than a movie that engages its audience and develops its characters. That shit was like a force-feeding of how many ways can racism being in a 2 hour span regardless of how most the characters I wont give a shit about. The only other movie I have seen yet that were nominated(as of now) was Munich, and I came outta that darn impressed. Judging from the reactions of my friends and others who have seen all of them, Crash was seriously last on their lists.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Mar-06-06 07:34 AM

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67. "Well!"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

Since your "friends" made it last on their lists, that settles it. We should ALL assume it did not deserve the W based on THAT alone.

>>Judging from
>the reactions of my friends and others who have seen all of
>them, Crash was seriously last on their lists.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Mon Mar-06-06 04:35 PM

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135. "yes, because thats exactly what I said"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

stop putting words into others mouths when there opinion doesnt agree with yours. That was the general sentiment among the people I knew and im pretty positive, judging from this board, that we werent the only ones who thought Crash didnt deserve it.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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MikeLove
Charter member
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Mon Mar-06-06 04:47 AM

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64. "Driving Miss Daisy, anyone?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

spike's still mad at that one
hell, at least brokeback didnt win

<----- The reason your team's players jump into the stands after a TD

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
8564 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:08 PM

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94. "Co-sign"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          


-------------
"Cosbyness is next to Godliness" - Grandpa "Bitches" Freeman

  

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Bridgetown
Member since Dec 04th 2004
27565 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 06:15 AM

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65. "Forrest Gump. Sorry, that's just how I feel about it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Tacky, overly-sentimental piece of fluff.

--Maurice

_____

Bonding over sutures is what's hot in Oh-Nine.
--JS

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 08:41 AM

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73. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Actually, even though I did kinda like it... I'm pretty shocked at this my damn self.

My theory is, the Academy hates PTP.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49462 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 09:07 AM

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75. "that's what the fuck you get for hatin' so hard...like a damned fool"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-06-06 09:09 AM by Basaglia

  

          

investing all that energy into hating that movie.

by the way...gladiator, fucker.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Bridgetown
Member since Dec 04th 2004
27565 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:41 PM

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87. "Yeah, Gladiator's up there."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

--Maurice

_____

Bonding over sutures is what's hot in Oh-Nine.
--JS

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:02 PM

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107. "What was it up against tho?"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18145 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 10:38 PM

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148. "Two much better films"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

"GLADIATOR," "Chocolat," "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," "Erin Brockovich," "Traffic"

Traffic would have been my pick that year.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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blue23
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8341 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 10:07 AM

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77. "Agree 100%"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The movies I like almost never win Oscars. I let it go. Doesn't bother me. But when something this bad wins the best American movie of the year I can't help it - this sucks. Maybe even more irritiating was the fact that it won for best original screenplay over Syriana and The Squid and the Whale. The writing in Crash is very obviously written by someone far outside the reality of almost all of its characters. At no time did I feel like I was seeing real stories or real people. This was completely imaginary play time bullshit written by a rich white guy in some big house in Beverly Hills. And on top of that we crown the chick from Legally Blonde as our best actress. Great. Below is a review I wrote on this movie when I saw it in October.

Crash – There are probably two things that I hate most in movies A) Filling out the cast with stock Hollywood actors trying to "get real" and this movie is overflowing with them. In fact the two best actors in the film are an unknown (the Mexican locksmith) and a rapper (Ludacris). B) The circle of random coincidence, wherein the audience is asked to swallow one ridiculous coincidence after another. The suspension of disbelief that this movie asks us to use is enormous. LA is not Iowa. You don't just run into people... The series with the gunshot, the little girl, the invisible cloak and the blanks is a nice moment but the rest of the film is lacking the same well-played subtlety, in fact it's blatant to the point of being offensive. Real people just don't talk like this. Terrence Howard is able to transcend some of the bad material but most of the others are not. I mean, I wasn't exactly impressed that Sandra Bullock can play a stuck up bitch or surprised that Ryan Phillippe doesn't make a convincing cop. And while it may be admirable to try and look at prejudice in a real light when you do that from behind a massive studio budget with a script openly campaigning for another Oscar it just cheapens the pursuit. Poor work all around.

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 11:39 AM

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82. "Co-sign with everything, especially the screenplay stuff"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

  

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B9
Charter member
43122 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 10:38 AM

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78. "I just found out who actually liked Crash!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Conservative white folks. Morning meeting turned to the Oscars and it turns out that they loved Crash, hated Walk the Line (who knew) and thought that Jon Stewart was horrible. But they've never seen any of the other nominees for Best Picture. Also, they thought "that rapping" was badly out of place but more concerned for Dolly's health. Also, never seen a Robert Altman movie so thought that Lilly Tomlin/Merele Streepe's speach was "a train wreck".

Agast? not really.

  

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jigga
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:12 PM

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117. "RE: I just found out who actually liked Crash!"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>Conservative white folks.

Several of my black family members loved it as well. Them & my friends who also loved it all seem a little put off when I mention that I thought it was just ok. For all the great moments in the film there's a dozen terrible ones.

thought that Jon Stewart was horrible.

No shock 2 those who know me, I expected him 2 be terrible again like he was the last time he hosted an awards show. But he was excellent last nite. Many LOL moments which I never expected from him.

But
>they've never seen any of the other nominees for Best Picture.
>Also, they thought "that rapping" was badly out of place but
>more concerned for Dolly's health.

Dolly looks like she could star in her own horror movie w/ the same make up she had on last nite

Also, never seen a Robert
>Altman movie so thought that Lilly Tomlin/Merele Streepe's
>speach was "a train wreck".

They had the best speech of the night. And I'm not even a big Altman fan. I've had Gosford Park on my Netflix Q 4 ages but I think I might finally bump it up a bit.

And whoever it was that spoke before the Film Noir segment deserves the train wreck award. My apologies if she's sick or something.

  

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dro
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Mon Mar-06-06 11:24 AM

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81. "what should have won, then?"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-06-06 11:25 AM by dro

  

          

the movie that tackled the issues of gay people hiding in society?
the movie that tackled government overstepping boundries in wartime?
the movie that tackled bitter ethnic politics and ethnic murder?
or the movie that tackled the life of a famous and eccentric writer?

if you didn't like crash because of how it was put together as a movie, then fine. but don't say it won because it "tackled (insert issue here)." they all did, and for whatever reason the academy wanted to blow itself by making one of those films best picture of the year

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 11:54 AM

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84. "But none of those films were so obnoxiously aware of their "tackling""
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

Brokeback Mountain was a true forbidden love story, told really well. You almost forget the rntire issue of "gay cowboys". Good Bye, and Good Luck was a clear message film, except it's message was a true one that actually applied to today and sent a real message. Munich was much more of a storey than the political film it's being made to be. As for Capote, I really don't quite see the "issue" there. Just cause he's gay or is covering a muder trial doesn't make it an issue film.

Crash was very aware, in a most annoying manner, of how it should be perceived: as a film about our "hidden" racial biases and how we're all just people inside, without saying a single word about systematc racism or how this kind of racism is REALLY started or anything even close to as subversive as what they want everyone to think it is.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:28 PM

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86. "^^^ PERFECTLY ARTICULATED"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

>Brokeback Mountain was a true forbidden love story, told
>really well. You almost forget the rntire issue of "gay
>cowboys". Good Bye, and Good Luck was a clear message film,
>except it's message was a true one that actually applied to
>today and sent a real message. Munich was much more of a
>storey than the political film it's being made to be. As for
>Capote, I really don't quite see the "issue" there. Just
>cause he's gay or is covering a muder trial doesn't make it an
>issue film.
>
>Crash was very aware, in a most annoying manner, of how it
>should be perceived: as a film about our "hidden" racial
>biases and how we're all just people inside, without saying a
>single word about systematc racism or how this kind of racism
>is REALLY started or anything even close to as subversive as
>what they want everyone to think it is.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Morehouse
Member since Feb 25th 2003
7568 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:03 PM

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108. "RE: But none of those films were so obnoxiously aware of their "tackling..."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

>Brokeback Mountain was a true forbidden love story, told
>really well. You almost forget the rntire issue of "gay
>cowboys". Good Bye, and Good Luck was a clear message film,
>except it's message was a true one that actually applied to
>today and sent a real message. Munich was much more of a
>storey than the political film it's being made to be. As for
>Capote, I really don't quite see the "issue" there. Just
>cause he's gay or is covering a muder trial doesn't make it an
>issue film.

have not seen the film but i will.


>Crash was very aware, in a most annoying manner, of how it
>should be perceived: as a film about our "hidden" racial
>biases and how we're all just people inside, without saying a
>single word about systematc racism or how this kind of racism
>is REALLY started or anything even close to as subversive as
>what they want everyone to think it is.

if the director had made it the movie's purpose to give origins of systematic racism, or spelled it out using one of the characters, would it then have been a worthwhile movie?


***********************************

myself is sculptor of
your body’s idiom:
the musician of your wrists;
the poet who is afraid
only to mistranslate
a rhythm in your hair...
-E.E. Cummings

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 04:48 PM

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136. "I'm not saying he had to change the purpose of the film"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

But, as I didn't really make clear, if he had tried to get to the actual roots of the problems described within the film, he might have had a decent film. It didn't have to be about racism is mostly controlled by an authoatative system, but if it was going to deal with personal racism, it'd be nice if Haggis didn't bail every racist character out or explain how they REALLY got like that in the first place.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49462 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 06:07 PM

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141. "if childhood flashbacks of gay-bashings and mexican man whores"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

ain't aware, then.....man, just stop it...crash won.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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xbenzive
Charter member
3183 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:45 PM

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88. "RE: WORST BEST PICTURE WINNER IN THE HISTORY OF OSCAR"
In response to Reply # 0


          

personally, i like the movie Crash.

peace.

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66128 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 12:49 PM

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89. "I did too"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

but i can see why everyone here is hatin it. if the message wasnt thrown in your face and it didnt try so hard to be "edgy" or whatever they were tryin i think more people would have liked it.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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47148 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:06 PM

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93. "You don't have to be a moron to like Crash"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I say this person who liked Crash and who does not consider myself a moron. I enjoyed Crash immensely as a little film that could and I am glad I saw it before all the hype that has since fuled a backlash against the movie. I plan to watch it again and I am sure I will see a lot of the criticism that the movie has generated in the backlash. Yeah things tied up somewhat nicely in the movie, but I remember at my first viewing my heart in my throat watching the movie not sure if certain characters would make it through the film, It turned out the movie had way happier endings for the characters than I expected, but at the time I didn't know it would standard Hollywood fare and was genuinely concerned for the characters (Happy endings is not in itself a flaw of a movie, PREDICTABLE Happy Endings is).
By I am not here to argue the substance of whether Crash or BBM was a superior movie. I take Offense at the notion that there is something inherently wrong with Crash winning the Best Picture Oscar. Upsets happen all the time and has been mentioned, movies that will stand the test of time lose to Big Event pictures almost every year. But I find it insulting when people act as if a travesty has occured because BBM lost. Now I have not scene BBM, and from the awards show and this discussion I think I am in the same position as a lot of people. I will see it eventually because a lot of people tend to think it is a good movie, But am I a homophobe because I don't have a natural inclination to see the movie? Even if I have never had an interest in seeing Western ROmances? Would I be a anti-semite If I didn't go to see Munich?
I would not resort to calling a critic of Crash a racist, and I think it is insulting for folks that act like there is this huge conspiracy against homosexuals to keep BBM down.
**********

Reality check: according to the 2000 census, there were more than 31,000 black physicians and surgeons, 33,000 black lawyers. There are about 1,400 black athletes playing professional basketball, football and baseball combined.

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:11 PM

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95. "The African American Film Critics Association's '05 Top 10 list:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The complete list of AAFCA’s Top Ten Films of 2005 follows.

1. Crash
2. The Constant Gardener
3. Good Night, Good Luck
4. Brokeback Mountain
5. Syriana
6. Walk the Line
7. Hustle and Flow
8. Capote
9. Batman Begins
10. North Country

J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:04 PM

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109. "That's odd, since The Constant Gardener >>>>>>>>> Crash."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

It says more about race and racial politics than Crash could ever dream of.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 04:12 PM

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132. "so all of a sudden..."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

...you know more about depictions of race and race relations than an entire association of black film critics and journalists?

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 04:53 PM

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137. "^^^^^CLEARLY never saw the constant gardener"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

if you had, there's no way you could disagree with this statement:

> It says more about race and racial politics than Crash could ever dream of.

which do you think is the more relevant and harmful effect of modern-day racism: people being mean to each other (crash)... or big corporations exploiting an entire continent for profit while the majority of the world looks the other way (constant gardener)?

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
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Mon Mar-06-06 07:46 PM

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144. "1. i saw the constant gardener in the theatre"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

2. saying crash is a film about people being mean to each other is like saying baseball is a game of hitting a ball would a wooden stick and running around a square

3. just because constant gardener deals with systematic racism on governmental and corporate levels does not mean it did a better job dealing with race and race relations...not to mention, it's not like the concept of the white man exploiting africa is unchartered territory

4. even though the villains in constant gardener is white, so is the martyr

J Dilla "Donuts" ????
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ???
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ?????

  

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theprofessional
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Tue Mar-07-06 04:09 AM

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154. "crash is a film about people being mean to each other"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

shall i say it again?

>4. even though the villains in constant gardener is white, so
>is the martyr

you'll have to explain the relevance of this one to me... and also the accuracy, considering the guy rachel weisz's character was working with was african and was also murdered, along with a few hundred other africans they were trying to protect (remember the unmarked mass grave?). yeah, you saw the film.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
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Mon Mar-06-06 04:54 PM

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138. "I don't think he thinks he knows more, but I think his opinion is what h..."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

Why can't cats just say their opinion without it being shitted on as "comparable" to some bullshit authority? I thought Crash sucked. You thought it was a better film than Do the Right Thing. It doesn't matter what the Academy or the Sags or the AAFCA says, these opinions hold just as much weight as someone who's paid to do it.

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:12 PM

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96. "Ebert compares Crash to Charles Dickens (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

'Crash' owes a debt to Dickens

BY ROGER EBERT Film Critic /

I was reading Charles Dickens the other day, and realized in a different way why "Crash" is such a good and useful film. Dickens is the best storyteller in the history of the novel, and although I've read him pretty much from end to end, I got into an argument about the character in "The Squid and the Whale" who tells his son that A Tale of Two Cities is "minor Dickens." I thought this opinion was correct, but I re-read it for the first time since I was a child, and found that it was not minor Dickens after all.

Dickens wrote melodramas and romances, comedies and tragedies, usually within the same story. He was a social reformer, filled with an anger that had its beginnings when his father was thrown into a debtors' prison and young Charles was yanked from a happy family into a precarious existence as a child laborer in a blacking factory.


His targets were corrupt educators, exploiters of children and defenseless women, windbags, cheats, hypocrites and toadies. He painted them with broad strokes, and assigned them names to reflect their weaknesses: Mr. Gradgrind was a cruel schoolmaster, Scrooge the archetypal tightwad, the Cheeryble Brothers saw the good side of everything, Miss Havisham got a sham instead of a husband, and I don't know why Uriah Heep's name makes me think of bodily wastes, but it does.


These characters had flaws that defined their personalities. They occupied plots in which coincidence was the bedrock of the story. It was absolutely necessary that characters turn up precisely when the plot required them, and that those with shady pasts turned out to be concealing the very secret that was needed in the present. "Masterpiece Theater" is currently serializing Bleak House, in which many scraps of paper are thrown out, but not the crucial one; in which a young woman's mother turns out to be the very person she is required to be; in which only those conversations are overheard that must be preserved; in which an orphan's protector fortuitously holds the key to her happiness.


Caricatures and coincidences are not weaknesses in Dickens but his method. And "Crash," one of this year's Oscar nominees and my choice as the best film of 2005, uses exactly the same tools. The film's critics believe its characters are caricatures and say its Los Angeles seems to be populated by 20 people who are always crossing paths. Surely life is not a nonstop series of racist confrontations and coincidences?


Well, of course not. But the movie is not about life in general. It is about how racism wounds and stings, and makes its victims feel worthless and its perpetrators ugly and vicious. All true enough, but the brilliance of the movie's method is that victims and victimizers change places, and "Crash" demonstrates how in a complex multiracial society there is enough guilt to go around.


The storylines involving the two cops (Matt Dillon and Ryan Phillippe) and the upper-crust black couple (Terrence Howard and Thandie Newton) have inspired the most discussion. On one day, Dillon stops Howard for DWB (driving while black) and commits a sexual assault against his wife, while the other two men stand by impotently -- Howard aware that if he challenges the cop, he could get arrested or killed; Phillippe a rookie who is intimidated by his brutal partner.


We follow the characters into their lives. Newton and Howard have a lacerating argument in which each says unforgivable things, and each blames the other for pain and ugliness that was certainly not either's fault. Dillon is seen in all the frustration of trying to care for his dying father in the face of heartless HMOs. Phillippe is seen as a decent cop trying to distance himself from Dillon's indecencies. And then, the next day ...


Well, either you know what happens, or I should not tell you. The point is made that in different situations the same people behave in different ways. One life is saved, another lost, not in the way we anticipate. The film does not forgive Dillon's character or excuse his crime; it simply shows that on both days, he has done what it is in his nature to do. The film deals here and elsewhere in irony, in the bitter truth that human nature doesn't divide us into heroes and villains, but gives us situations in which we behave badly, or well.


Many of the film's scenes involve misunderstandings. Many of the racist assumptions are incorrectly aimed; a man of Iranian (i.e., Persian) descent is infuriated that anyone would think he is an Arab, but he leaps to immediate suspicions about the ethnic identity of the young man changing his lock. And then the locksmith ...


I get in a lot of discussions about films with strangers. "Crash" is the one that keeps coming up. Those who dislike it assume it should be more "realistic," reflect "the Los Angeles I know," be less "manipulative," "not celebrate paranoia," not be so "facile."


Those who admire it have a different tone in their voice. They say the movie made them think, made them look within themselves, made them realize that society has shuffled the packs of good and evil and made it more difficult for the good to always be Us and the evil to always be Them. The movie invited them to see that everyone has a story -- a story that does not excuse or justify their actions but places them in a context.


People wrote me. I heard from a black woman who was surprised to find herself sympathizing with the Sandra Bullock character. Well, why shouldn't she? You don't have to be white to be paranoid after a carjacking (to think you do is racist).


I heard from a Canadian with a North American Indian background ("First Nation," as they say in Canada). Because of his appearance, people can't immediately identify him by race, but sometimes they think they can, and he is treated in different ways by those who think he is Asian, Latino, Arabic or African-Canadian; he learns at first hand about the subtleties of racial prejudice.


"Crash" is not a movie with answers, and maybe not even with questions. Maybe it is all made of observations. In a time when we are encouraged to draw sharp lines and leap to immediate conclusions, here is a movie that asks us to think twice, to look again, to look also within ourselves. "It made me think," a lot of people say.


Yes, you can dismiss it, deplore its contrivances, think that by exposing its methods, you have invalidated the film. You can demolish Dickens in the same way. But social arguments are not won by drawing subtle logical distinctions. He brought about actual changes in British laws involving education, child labor, bankruptcy, insanity and legalized theft from estates.


Dickens did it with caricature, coincidence, exaggeration, honesty, passion and truth. "Crash" is using the same methods with the same hopes. It is not an unworthy undertaking.


J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:05 PM

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110. "Ebert just compared Haggis to Dickens. Instant L."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 03:13 PM

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130. "^^Has obviously never read 'A Tale of 2 Texas Rangers'^^"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          



-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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theprofessional
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Mon Mar-06-06 04:58 PM

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139. "so the man who brought us facts of life and walker texas ranger"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

is not only considered one of american's greatest living screenwriters, but is also now drawing comparisons to charles dickens. yeah, that would qualify as an L.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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danthrax
Member since Mar 31st 2003
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Fri Mar-10-06 04:57 PM

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167. "anyone who says 'crash made me think' is retarded"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

and has absolutely no experience with racism other than when they occasionally says "he speaks so well", or some other backhanded complement when they deal with a minority who's SURPRISINGLY not a smelly sexually-charged lazy criminal.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
42257 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:22 PM

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98. "My commentary on this post:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

- Crash, while a decent movie, was neither the Best Picture this year, nor the worst pick ever.
- Do The Right Thing is worlds beyond Crash.
- Jack Nicholson looked high.
- I don't like Paul Haggis.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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daveyoriginal
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
3271 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 01:24 PM

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100. "L.A. Weekly's critic gets sonned by Ebert re: Crash (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In defense of the year's 'worst movie'

BY ROGER EBERT FILM CRITIC /

Having selected "Crash" as the best film of 2005, I was startled to learn from Scott Foundas, a critic for LA Weekly, that it is the worst film of the year. Writing in the annual Slate.com Movie Club, a round table also involving Slate's David Edelstein, the Chicago Reader's Jonathan Rosenbaum and A.O. Scott of the New York Times, he wrote:

"Not since 'Spanglish' --which, alas, wasn't that long ago -- has a movie been so chock-a-block with risible minority caricatures or done such a handy job of sanctioning the very stereotypes it ostensibly debunks. Welcome to the best movie of the year for people who like to say, 'A lot of my best friends are black.'"

That group must include (understandably, I suppose) the membership of the African-American Film Critics Association, who didn't get the wake-up call from Foundas in time to avoid voting "Crash" as their best film of the year. "The films selected for 2005 boldly reflect a bridge towards tolerance," said Gil Robertson IV, president of the association.

That's what I thought about "Crash." I believe that occasionally a film comes along that can have an influence for the better, and maybe even change us a little.

"Crash" shows the interlinked lives of Los Angelinos who belong to many different ethnic groups, who all suffer from prejudice, and who all practice it. The movie, written and directed by Paul Haggis, doesn't assign simplistic "good" and "evil" labels but shows that the same person can be sometimes a victim, sometimes a victimizer. To say it "sanctions" their behavior is simply wrong-headed.

"Crash" is a film that depends for much of its effect on the clash of coincidental meetings. A white racist cop sexually assaults a black woman, then the next day saves her life. His white partner, a rookie, is appalled by his behavior, but nevertheless later kills an innocent man because he leaps to a conclusion based on race. A black man is so indifferent to his girlfriend's Latino heritage that he can't be bothered to remember where she's from. After a carjacking, a liberal politician's wife insists all their locks be changed -- and then wants them changed again, because she thinks the Mexican-American locksmith will send his "homies" over with the pass key. The same locksmith has trouble with an Iranian store owner who thinks the Mexican-American is black. But it drives the Iranian crazy that everyone thinks he is Arab, when they should know that Iranians are Persian. Buying a gun to protect himself, he gets into a shouting match with a gun dealer who has a lot of prejudices about, yes, Arabs.

And so on, around and around. The movie is constructed as a series of parables, in which the characters meet and meet again; the movie shows them both sinned against, and sinning. The most poignant scene is probably the one in which a mother can see no evil in her son who is corrupt, and finds nothing but fault with her son who is a kind man and good to her. She thinks she knows them.

When "Crash" opened, I wrote: "Not many films have the possibility of making their audiences better people. I don't expect 'Crash' to work any miracles, but I believe anyone seeing it is likely to be moved to have a little more sympathy for people not like themselves."

I believe that. The success of the film suggests it struck a lot of people the same way; opening last spring as a low-profile release, it held its box office and slowly built through word-of-mouth, as people told each other about it. It opened in May with a $9 million weekend, and by September had grossed $55 million. "Crash" and "March of the Penguins" were the two most successful "word of mouth" pictures of the year.

In my original review, I wrote: "If there is hope in the story, it comes because as the characters crash into one another, they learn things, mostly about themselves. Almost all of them are still alive at the end, and are better people because of what has happened to them. Not happier, not calmer, not even wiser, but better."

How, then, can this be the worst movie of the year? It is not only Scott Foundas who thinks so, but indeed even Jim Emerson, who edits rogerebert.com, said it made him gasp and guffaw, but allows, "at least it has the up-front audacity to dare looking ridiculous by arguably reaching beyond its grasp." And here is Dave White of MSNBC: "Kids, racism is really really really bad and wrong. Look, just watch this heavy, important movie about how everyone who lives in Los Angeles -- all 12 of them -- is super racist and awful; it's really funny when Hollywood decides to tackle a serious moral issue and throw star-powered weight behind something that everyone but Neo-Nazis agrees on already."

Foundas in his Slate.com attack says the movie is "one of those self-congratulatory liberal jerk-off movies that rolls around every once in a while to remind us of how white people suffer too, how nobody is without his prejudices, and how, when the going gets tough, even the white supremacist cop who gets his kicks from sexually harassing innocent black motorists is capable of rising to the occasion. How touching."

Of these three, Emerson is at least good-hearted, but Foundas and White seem actually angry at the film, even contemptuous. In a year that gave us "Chaos" and "Deuce Bigalow, European Gigolo," this seems a strange choice of target.

White's comments indicate, I guess, that racism is dead in America, except for neo-Nazis, and that anyone making a movie about it is a fool. How glib, how smug, how insular. It is almost impossible these days to get financing and backing for any sort of serious film; White seems to think Hollywood makes them for fun.

Foundas is too cool for the room. He is so wise, knowing and cynical that he can see through "Crash" and indulge in self-congratulatory superiority because he didn't fall for it. Referring to the wife who distrusts the locksmith, he writes: "when Sandra Bullock's pampered Brentwood housewife accuses a Mexican-American locksmith of copying her keys for illicit purposes, Haggis doesn't condemn her reprehensible behavior so much as he sympathizes with it."

This is a misreading of the film, but look at it more closely: Bullock is "pampered" and a "housewife," yet Haggis "sympathizes" with her behavior. Does he? No; I would say he empathizes with it, which is another thing altogether. She has just been carjacked at gunpoint and is hysterical. If Foundas were carjacked at gunpoint, would he rise to the occasion with measured detachment and sardonic wit? I wouldn't. Who will cast the first stone? And notice that the Mexican-American locksmith (Michael Pena) remains so invisible to Foundas that the actor is not named and Foundas has not noticed that the scene also empathizes with him.

Consider now Foundas describing the black TV director who stands by fearfully as a cop assaults his wife. Terrence Howard, Foundas says, plays the "creepy embodiment of emasculated African-American yuppiedom." Say what? As a black man in Los Angeles, Howard's character is fully aware that when two white cops stop you for the wrong reason and one starts feeling up your wife, it is prudent to reflect that both of the cops are armed and, if you resist, in court you will hear that you pulled a gun, were carrying cocaine, threatened them, and are lying about the sexual assault. Notice also, please, that the TV director's wife (Thandie Newton) makes the same charge of emasculated yuppiedom against her husband that Foundas does -- and her husband answers it. Their argument may cut closer to some of the complex and paradoxical realities of race in America than any other scene this year.

It is useful to be aware of the ways in which real people see real films. Over the past eight months I've had dozens of conversations about "Crash" with people who were touched by it. They said it might encourage them to look at strangers with a little more curiosity before making a snap judgment.

These real moviegoers are not constantly vigilant against the possibility of being manipulated by a film. They want to be manipulated; that's what they pay for, and that in a fundamental way is why movies exist. Usually the movies manipulate us in brainless ways, with bright lights and pretty pictures and loud sounds and special effects. But a great movie can work like philosophy, poetry, or a sermon.

It did not occur to many of its viewers that "Crash" was a "liberal" or for that matter a "conservative" film, as indeed it is neither: It is a series of stories in which people behave as they might and do and will, and we are invited to learn from the results. Not one in ten thousand audience members would agree with Foundas that "Crash" sympathizes with Bullock's character.

They are not too cool, but at room temperature.

Now back to those awards from the African-American Film Critics Association. They named Terrence Howard as best actor for "Hustle & Flow," and Felicity Huffman as best actress for "Transamerica." Hold on! Felicity Huffman is white! How could she be the best actress choice of the African-American critics? Because, Robertson says, they thought she gave the year's best performance. Is "Transamerica's" story of a transsexual merely one more case of Hollywood (let's get this right) throwing its star-powered weight behind something that everyone but Neo-Nazis agrees on already? Or could there possibly be a connection between such an award and the message of "Crash?" Now how about that.


J Dilla "Donuts" ☆☆☆☆
Dilated Peoples "20/20" ☆☆☆
Murs and 9th Wonder "Murray's Revenge" ☆☆☆☆☆

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:08 PM

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113. "This has already been posted, and Ebert is right in places"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

He is right that Foundas went way too far with his criticism. And it wasn't the year's worst movie. Not by a longshot.

But it was definitely the year's most undeserving of gargantuan praise movie. And it is the worst Best Picture winner in recent memory.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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UncleClimax
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Mon Mar-06-06 07:47 PM

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145. "i loved foundas' review"
In response to Reply # 113
Mon Mar-06-06 07:47 PM by UncleClimax

  

          

if i remember it correctly...that shit was so on-point, perfectly articulated my feelings about the movie afterward...and it was also pretty hilarious

i dont think its going too far at all to say Crash insults your intelligence in every way imaginable.

__________________
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- Gunter Eich

  

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Morehouse
Member since Feb 25th 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 01:55 PM

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105. "serious dialogue is my aim."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-06-06 01:56 PM by Morehouse

  

          

Comparing it to some other stellar movie that deals with similar issues like "Do the Right Thing" for instance, does not explain why "Crash" was bad and I honestly believe that this comparison is not at all a good one. There are hundrends of movies dealing with racism and stereotype, but they are still "different" movies, with other different themes and approaches and also purposes for that matter.

critics have discussed a lot how the characters in Crash are caricatures that do not represent real people but we hear about some of the scenarios that are depicted in this film all the time in real life, by word of mouth, on the news or through personal experience. i'm not saying everyone should like the movie, i just haven't heard a very good argument explaining why the movie is horrible, that it's authenticity is lacking or that it is the worst movie of the year.

i would say these are exaggerations, something i'm used to on the boards but really if we're going to discuss the movie, can we do that, in a serious manner.

***********************************

myself is sculptor of
your body’s idiom:
the musician of your wrists;
the poet who is afraid
only to mistranslate
a rhythm in your hair...
-E.E. Cummings

  

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Lightfoot
Member since Jan 01st 2004
5265 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:17 PM

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120. "Good post"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

>critics have discussed a lot how the characters in Crash are
>caricatures that do not represent real people but we hear
>about some of the scenarios that are depicted in this film all
>the time in real life, by word of mouth, on the news or
>through personal experience. i'm not saying everyone should
>like the movie, i just haven't heard a very good argument
>explaining why the movie is horrible, that it's authenticity
>is lacking or that it is the worst movie of the year.

The scenarios were over-dramatized, but not to an overbearing degree. I thought that the characters and the interaction was interesting enough to make up for any lack of authenticity. Which I can't say for Brokeback Mountain or Million Dollar Baby.

I think one of the problems some people have with it is that, whether or not people like the characters in the movie really exist, showing so many in one movie...and giving every character enough airtime to justify their part...does not allow any of the characters to be shown far enough beyond a superficial level. In large part we are supposed to assume depth to each one of them. Just a necessary element of a film that has so many storylines.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Stones. Rocks. Subways. Blocks.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:22 PM

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121. "This is one of the big problems of the movie."
In response to Reply # 120


  

          


>I think one of the problems some people have with it is that,
>whether or not people like the characters in the movie really
>exist, showing so many in one movie...and giving every
>character enough airtime to justify their part...does not
>allow any of the characters to be shown far enough beyond a
>superficial level. In large part we are supposed to assume
>depth to each one of them. Just a necessary element of a film
>that has so many storylines.

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Cork
Member since Oct 28th 2005
447 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:05 PM

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111. "are you really like, in real life, MAD mad at this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


like has it gotten in the way of you enjoying breakfast and such?

  

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Morehouse
Member since Feb 25th 2003
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:06 PM

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112. "lol."
In response to Reply # 111


  

          



***********************************

myself is sculptor of
your body’s idiom:
the musician of your wrists;
the poet who is afraid
only to mistranslate
a rhythm in your hair...
-E.E. Cummings

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:10 PM

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116. "Naw, I had a very nice breakfast of waffles and apple juice."
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

But last night I was angry, yes.

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Lightfoot
Member since Jan 01st 2004
5265 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:10 PM

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115. "Crash wasn't amazing but it was better than Munich and MUCH better"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

than Brokeback Mountain.

Capote was by far the best movie I saw this year, but I knew they wouldn't give it to Capote.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Stones. Rocks. Subways. Blocks.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:23 PM

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122. "I agree that Capote was much slept on."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

I thought Capote was the best biopic I've seen in the last few years.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Mar-06-06 02:56 PM

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126. "How was Capote slepted on?"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

How does a movie that gets nominated for 5 oscar nominations including best picture "Slepted On"?

Shouldn't "Slept on" be reserved for movies that were missed by viewers and critics alike?
**********

Reality check: according to the 2000 census, there were more than 31,000 black physicians and surgeons, 33,000 black lawyers. There are about 1,400 black athletes playing professional basketball, football and baseball combined.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 03:00 PM

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128. "It was "slepted on" in the following way:"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

It was gonna win Best Actor, and was never given serious consideration for any other category.

Right now it's hip to give a good film one big win, in order for it to be an Academy Award winning film.

In reality, it was one of the best films of the year, one of the most deserving nominees, and was worthy of more than just one award. I thought the screenplay award definitely should've belonged to Capote, and that it should've gotten much more serious consideration for best picture.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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brother_donte
Member since Dec 03rd 2002
1073 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 02:53 PM

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124. "brother_donte's take on Crash winning an Oscar for Best Picture"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

(courtesy of my blog from my MySpace page)
It's not like I've ever been that crazy about any film that received Best Picture at the Oscars, or even that disgusted for that matter. But when I heard that Crash won for Best Picture while I was driving home last night, I could've punched someone had they been sitting next to me.

I know that this is the movie that everyone loves, but I had issues with the film on so many levels. But before I unleash on the film. I will share the few positive attributes this film had. I will admit that there were some good performances throughout the film, the strongest being Terence Howard's. I felt that his character was the most complex. He was dealing with issues that I actually found engaging, such as witnessing a racist cop demean him by groping his wife, or having someone (Tony Danza, of all people) question whether or not someone would be convinced that a young Black person could speak articulate English. The moment where he snaps on a bunch of cops with loaded guns (after riding around with Ludacris, who tried to carjack him) pointing at him could've easily been one of many outrageously awkward moments throughout the film, but the fact that it was one of the few compelling moments is a testament to how powerful of an actor Howard is.

Actually, the performances in general were the only good thing this film had going for it. But things were going downhill from the start. First off, the score was one of the worst I've ever heard. It tried so hard to evoke an emotional response that I just didn't buy it, and it set the tone for the rest of the film. The screenplay was cluttered with forced dialogue and too many unconvincing scenes. For instance, one of the opening scenes where the Iranian shopkeeper has a confrontation with a gun dealer, who retorts with this onslaught about "flying planes into the towers" (or something like that), come on, who really talks like that? And it's unfortunate that this character was in the most annoying scenes in the movie. I was done with the film after the scene where he goes to the locksmith's house and threatens to shoot him. The way they had his daughter appear as if she got shot was so horrifically overdramatized. Why couldn't they just let it be known then and there that the guy had blanks in his gun all along. When that was revealed in the film, boy was I pissed.

Also, I just wasn't won over by the film's ham-fisted execution of coincidence and redemption throughout. The scenes with Matt Dillon having to save Thandie Newton from a burning car and when Ryan Phillipe shoots Larenz Tate, what am I supposed to get from this? That Matt Dillon doesn't hate Black people anymore because he saved the life of a woman he groped a night or two before? That Ryan Phillipe is an unconscious racist because he shot a Black dude who was hitchiking? If he was that paranoid, why pick him up in the first place? The film was riddled with these unconvincing moments, yet it won Best Screenplay. This is even more outrageous, considering there were some worthy contenders (Good Night and Good Luck, Syriana, Match Point, and The Squid and the Whale). UGGGHHH!!!

I can go on and on about the issues I had with Crash (if you would like me to elaborate further, please hit me up), but the major problem I had with it that on all accounts (the score, the screenplay, and in some cases, the performances), it tries so hard to reach people emotionally that it just falls flat (another prime example of this, Sandra Bullock's character tumbling down the stairs after saying to someone on the phone, "I'm angry all the time and I don't know why."). It gives the impression that it has no faith in itself. Also, it's not that the film needed a nice, tidy conclusion, but what's there to take away from it? That everyone's prejudiced? Did I need to spend 100 minutes of my life for a film to help me come to that realization?

Some people may find my response to the film harsh, but I guess it's because I take a more complex, intense look at racism and bigotry than some people. For some time now, I've moved past the point that racism and other issues (sexism, homophobia, or any other form of discrimination) can be solved on a social or emotional level. I just think it's too convenient to approach things that way. I personally feel that issues such as these need to be dealt with on a structural level, politically and economically. If such institutions as these are made more inclusive in terms of race, gender and class, that's the most effective way to change society, albeit the most difficult (I haven't forgotten that we do live in America). Although it did attempt to address racism in that sense through Don Cheadle's character, the film falls flat to me because it relies so heavily on the social and the emotional. And I have no problems with films being made for the sake of prompting dialogue (hey, Spike Lee's built a career on doing this), but in this case, it's a conversation that I find destined to go nowhere.

Crash also received a nomination for best song, but lost to "It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp" from Hustle and Flow (Whoever thought that the group responsible for popularizing codeine syrup would win an Oscar for best song? Pretty soon they'll give it to a sitcom star that moonlights as an R&B singer for playing a legendary blind soul...oh, never mind). If you saw the performance of the song "In the Deep," that alone epitomized everything that I hated about the film. Unbelievable.

BROTHER_DONTE
mcfaddendonte@gmail.com

A profile on Milwaukee's poetry scene:
http://www.mkeonline.com/story.asp?id=333698

More about yours truly:
http://www.myspace.com/mcfaddendonte

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 03:02 PM

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129. "^^^ THIS IS A POST EVERYONE SHOULD READ"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

>(courtesy of my blog from my MySpace page)
>It's not like I've ever been that crazy about any film that
>received Best Picture at the Oscars, or even that disgusted
>for that matter. But when I heard that Crash won for Best
>Picture while I was driving home last night, I could've
>punched someone had they been sitting next to me.
>
>I know that this is the movie that everyone loves, but I had
>issues with the film on so many levels. But before I unleash
>on the film. I will share the few positive attributes this
>film had. I will admit that there were some good performances
>throughout the film, the strongest being Terence Howard's. I
>felt that his character was the most complex. He was dealing
>with issues that I actually found engaging, such as witnessing
>a racist cop demean him by groping his wife, or having someone
>(Tony Danza, of all people) question whether or not someone
>would be convinced that a young Black person could speak
>articulate English. The moment where he snaps on a bunch of
>cops with loaded guns (after riding around with Ludacris, who
>tried to carjack him) pointing at him could've easily been one
>of many outrageously awkward moments throughout the film, but
>the fact that it was one of the few compelling moments is a
>testament to how powerful of an actor Howard is.
>
>Actually, the performances in general were the only good thing
>this film had going for it. But things were going downhill
>from the start. First off, the score was one of the worst
>I've ever heard. It tried so hard to evoke an emotional
>response that I just didn't buy it, and it set the tone for
>the rest of the film. The screenplay was cluttered with
>forced dialogue and too many unconvincing scenes. For
>instance, one of the opening scenes where the Iranian
>shopkeeper has a confrontation with a gun dealer, who retorts
>with this onslaught about "flying planes into the towers" (or
>something like that), come on, who really talks like that?
>And it's unfortunate that this character was in the most
>annoying scenes in the movie. I was done with the film after
>the scene where he goes to the locksmith's house and threatens
>to shoot him. The way they had his daughter appear as if she
>got shot was so horrifically overdramatized. Why couldn't
>they just let it be known then and there that the guy had
>blanks in his gun all along. When that was revealed in the
>film, boy was I pissed.
>
>Also, I just wasn't won over by the film's ham-fisted
>execution of coincidence and redemption throughout. The
>scenes with Matt Dillon having to save Thandie Newton from a
>burning car and when Ryan Phillipe shoots Larenz Tate, what am
>I supposed to get from this? That Matt Dillon doesn't hate
>Black people anymore because he saved the life of a woman he
>groped a night or two before? That Ryan Phillipe is an
>unconscious racist because he shot a Black dude who was
>hitchiking? If he was that paranoid, why pick him up in the
>first place? The film was riddled with these unconvincing
>moments, yet it won Best Screenplay. This is even more
>outrageous, considering there were some worthy contenders
>(Good Night and Good Luck, Syriana, Match Point, and The Squid
>and the Whale). UGGGHHH!!!
>
>I can go on and on about the issues I had with Crash (if you
>would like me to elaborate further, please hit me up), but the
>major problem I had with it that on all accounts (the score,
>the screenplay, and in some cases, the performances), it tries
>so hard to reach people emotionally that it just falls flat
>(another prime example of this, Sandra Bullock's character
>tumbling down the stairs after saying to someone on the phone,
>"I'm angry all the time and I don't know why."). It gives the
>impression that it has no faith in itself. Also, it's not
>that the film needed a nice, tidy conclusion, but what's there
>to take away from it? That everyone's prejudiced? Did I need
>to spend 100 minutes of my life for a film to help me come to
>that realization?
>
>Some people may find my response to the film harsh, but I
>guess it's because I take a more complex, intense look at
>racism and bigotry than some people. For some time now, I've
>moved past the point that racism and other issues (sexism,
>homophobia, or any other form of discrimination) can be solved
>on a social or emotional level. I just think it's too
>convenient to approach things that way. I personally feel
>that issues such as these need to be dealt with on a
>structural level, politically and economically. If such
>institutions as these are made more inclusive in terms of
>race, gender and class, that's the most effective way to
>change society, albeit the most difficult (I haven't forgotten
>that we do live in America). Although it did attempt to
>address racism in that sense through Don Cheadle's character,
>the film falls flat to me because it relies so heavily on the
>social and the emotional. And I have no problems with films
>being made for the sake of prompting dialogue (hey, Spike
>Lee's built a career on doing this), but in this case, it's a
>conversation that I find destined to go nowhere.
>
>Crash also received a nomination for best song, but lost to
>"It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp" from Hustle and Flow (Whoever
>thought that the group responsible for popularizing codeine
>syrup would win an Oscar for best song? Pretty soon they'll
>give it to a sitcom star that moonlights as an R&B singer for
>playing a legendary blind soul...oh, never mind). If you saw
>the performance of the song "In the Deep," that alone
>epitomized everything that I hated about the film.
>Unbelievable.
>
>BROTHER_DONTE
>mcfaddendonte@gmail.com
>
>A profile on Milwaukee's poetry scene:
>http://www.mkeonline.com/story.asp?id=333698
>
>More about yours truly:
>http://www.myspace.com/mcfaddendonte

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 04:32 PM

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134. "we have read it, many times over"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

It's the same regurgitated Crash-hate that's been festering on this board from day one. Give it a rest.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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brother_donte
Member since Dec 03rd 2002
1073 posts
Wed Mar-08-06 05:24 PM

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157. "No regurgitation..."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

I'm just providing further confirmation of just how bad this film is.

BROTHER_DONTE
mcfaddendonte@gmail.com

A profile on Milwaukee's poetry scene:
http://www.mkeonline.com/story.asp?id=333698

More about yours truly:
http://www.myspace.com/mcfaddendonte

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 05:18 PM

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140. "my problem was also that crash is 100% emotion"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

0% substance, 0% relevant, (0% realism, but that's a different post). okay, after we get beat over the head for two hours with the fact that we all have prejudices, then what? when you walk out of this movie, the absolute MOST you can take away from it is to be nicer to people. that may have been a relevant message in 1965, but in 2005, crash is just way too facts of life (also brought to you by paul haggis) to be anywhere near as progressive and important as it thinks it is.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Brother_Afron
Member since Jul 06th 2003
3812 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 03:36 PM

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131. "If it makes you feel better"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The NY Daily News obviously has a problem with it, since they mention Crash exactly once in their Oscar coverage, and only in reference to it being Brokeback's main competition. These cats straight ignored the fact that it won best film.

Fun is the new gritty

  

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ZioN
Charter member
2792 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 10:30 PM

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147. "what i love about this"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-06-06 10:33 PM by ZioN

  

          

crash thing and always have, you guys are so mad and offended that your brilliant opinions have basically been crapped on...

...but you're still right! lmao

just get over it

its a consensus of opinion. just because its not YOUR opinion doesn't make yours wrong and theirs right or vice versa.

---

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
42257 posts
Mon Mar-06-06 11:58 PM

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150. "PSA: Crash wasn't even the best Terrance Howard/Ludacris movie."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That is all.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Tue Mar-07-06 04:12 AM

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155. "right?!"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

seriously, if hustle and flow had gotten a best picture nod and crash had not, i wouldn't have batted an eye. i'd be surprised it was nominated, sure, but not as surprised as i was by crash's nomination.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Tue Mar-07-06 05:42 PM

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156. "More or less."
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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BlacKnightSC
Member since Feb 10th 2004
2290 posts
Tue Mar-07-06 01:53 AM

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151. "I dont get the comparission to Do The Right Thing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Do The Right Thing strictly dealt with things in a black community setting and really just explores the interaction in the black community with other individuals peppered in, while Crash deals with the idea of self bias and victimazation of that in a multi-racial circle...they both seemed different to me. And neither of them had really good character development...to understand Do The Right Thing, you have to already have a percevied conception of the characters. Its pretty much the same with Crash...You can argue there is more of a central point of character in Do The Right Thing, but barely so cause with maybe the exception of Spike, no one was really a central characters; someone walks into a scene and its a whole new mini-story. Cant really say the characters in Do The Right Thing displayed nearly as much humanistic emotion or logic as Crash; everyone was there in a scene to pretty much prove a point, move to next scene.

Their two different takes on a general idea...I dont get the anger here. And I really dont see how I should be offended by Crash...if anything I should be more offended by Brokeback Mountain for perpetuating the "All Indie Films are about Gay Cowboys Eating Pudding" myth...

Brooklyn...home to the illest emcees in the world. Aint no other city fucking with us.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Mar-07-06 03:00 AM

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152. "Anatomy of an Oscar win (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Sorry, y'all, but as Triple H says, it's all about the game, and how you play it. From the L.A. Times:

>How 'Crash' went bang

In retrospect, that best picture win shouldn't come as such a shock. Here's why.

James Bates

Behind the Screens

March 6, 2006

At one point during his Sunday night Oscar monologue, host Jon Stewart rattled off the names of some of the actors he spotted in the Kodak Theatre who were in the movie "Crash": Sandra Bullock, Matt Dillon, Don Cheadle, Terrence Howard and Brendan Fraser.

Then, he suggested, it might be easier for the actors in the audience who weren't in the film to raise their hands.

The joke was funny, but it made a subtle point. A big ensemble production, "Crash" is an actor's film, which probably best explains why it upset "Brokeback Mountain" to win the best picture Oscar.

Much of the morning-after punditry and blog logic have centered on whether members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences had trouble giving "Brokeback Mountain" a best picture nod because of its gay love theme. Another theory: like a cinematic John Edwards, "Brokeback" peaked too early and its Oscar buzz dissipated.

In fact, the key to "Crash's" success was that the film — and the carefully orchestrated promotional campaign undertaken by its distributor, Lionsgate — appealed to the Academy's largest voting bloc: actors. With 22% of the Academy's voting members, the acting demographic is nearly three times as big as the next largest group — producers.

It was actors — specifically, those in Los Angeles — who were targeted to deliver votes. And judging by the upset, deliver they did.

Oscar voting results are known only to a couple of accountants at PricewaterhouseCoopers, so it is impossible to compare actors' voting habits to, say, those of writers or directors. Unlike a political election, the best anyone can do is offer educated guesses as to why any film won, or who voted for it.

Ultimately, a picture has to be popular — even one as polarizing as "Crash" that moviegoers and critics either loved or hated — because nobody votes for a movie they detest.

Still, one can't ignore the impact of the finely tuned Oscar strategy of Lionsgate and its parent, Lions Gate Entertainment Corp. The company opened its wallet at key times in January and February to allocate an extra $2 million — bringing its total spend to $4 million. Targeted were Los Angeles actors, the niche it needed to emerge from a field of five films, none of which was an obvious front-runner.

Indeed, Lionsgate's targeted campaign could prove a model for Oscar marketing in that it proved more effective than the usual carpet bombing approach. Some believe that awards impresarios such as Miramax co-founder Harvey Weinstein pushed so hard to get his films "Gangs of New York" and "The Aviator" statuettes that it turned off some voters.

"Crash" was the underdog from the start, with its difficult themes of racism and intolerance seeming no match for the love-is-universal underpinnings of the well-reviewed "Brokeback." "Crash" also had to overcome the bias Oscar voters usually show toward ensemble films. Good ensemble movies are popular with actors because they showcase the importance of subtle performances. But they rarely win best picture.

Ironically, maybe even fittingly, the same year "Crash" beat the odds, the honorary Oscar went to one of Hollywood's premiere big-cast directors: Robert Altman. It was Altman's first Oscar after a body of work that earned him Oscar nominations, but not wins, for ensemble pieces "Nashville," "MASH," "Gosford Park," "Short Cuts" and "The Player."

Critical to Lionsgate's campaign was its decision to mail out 130,000 cellophane-wrapped DVDs, including to about 110,000 actors. Not all recipients were Oscar voters. But "Crash" nonetheless won the best ensemble award from the Screen Actors Guild, an early tipoff that it might also have Oscar legs.

"Lionsgate's decision to send out the DVD to SAG was a really smart decision," one of the film's producers, Cathy Schulman, said Monday. "It was clear from the beginning of the film's release that the actors were really supporting the film.… I presume that's where a lot of the votes came from."

There were other early hints that "Crash" might go the distance. In the awards issued by Hollywood's directing, producing, art directing and writing guilds, "Crash" roughly held its own with "Brokeback" in nominations and wins.

When "Crash" received an editing Oscar nomination and "Brokeback" didn't, Lionsgate executives thought it might be a bellwether. Their research showed that the last time a film was named best picture without an editing nomination went back to the 1981 ceremony, when "Ordinary People" won. That indicated that the Academy's film editors branch, another key voting bloc, was in "Crash's" corner.

"Crash" also had in its favor a popular director and co-writer — Paul Haggis — who has worked with scores of actors during a long TV career on such shows as "The Facts of Life," "thirtysomething" and "Walker, Texas Ranger." Also popular with actors is Cheadle, who as well as starring in "Crash" was also a producer on the film.

"Crash" likely scored points with some actors because it was shot in Los Angeles at a time when runaway film production is a sore point. "Brokeback" was shot in Canada, financed in part by Canadian tax incentives.

"Crash" was also written about Los Angeles, which probably gave it additional home field advantage. Some 78% of the Academy's voting members live in California — the vast majority of them in the Los Angeles area. "Crash" won many outspoken local fans, including Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa.

By early January, Lions Gate had spent $2 million on trade ads and other promotions, but more was needed. The movie, which was released in May, was no longer in theaters, so getting the DVDs out was critical.

In the days leading up to the close of voting on Oscar nominations on Jan. 21, Lionsgate opened the spigot to spend another $500,000. Once "Crash" got its six nods on Jan. 31, including best picture, another $1.5 million was earmarked.

"The two most important things to our campaign were: Getting 'Crash' to be seen by everyone who needed to see it, and then reminding them of how 'Crash' made them feel," said Tom Ortenberg, president of Lionsgate Theatrical Films.

The logic was to first "win" the city, and then look for voters in the rest of the nation, mainly the New York contingent, to split its votes among "Crash" and the four other nominees, which also included "Capote," "Good Night, and Good Luck" and "Munich."

Ortenberg said that Lionsgate never intentionally ceded other parts of the country. But as a company with limited resources, he said, the focus had to be Los Angeles.

Indeed, because Lions Gate Entertainment is such a small public company, it had to own up to its additional spending -roughly 3 cents a share — last month in a conference call with Wall Street analysts. Some grilled company executives on the expenses, and whether the spending was worth it.

Hours after actor Jack Nicholson opened the envelope and announced "Crash" had won, that question appeared to be answered.

Overnight, "Crash" jumped 347% from No. 103 to No. 23 on Amazon.com's top DVD sellers. Early Monday, analyst David W. Miller of Sanders Morris Harris quickly revised his estimate that DVD sales of the reissue of "Crash" scheduled for April 4 would nearly double, to about 150,000 copies.

All told, Lions Gate Entertainment executives have estimated, the Oscar win could be worth as much as $10 million in additional money for "Crash," not only in DVD sales but in bigger payments when it is shown on TV.

But, as analyst Miller said Monday, "that might prove to be conservative."

Times staff writers Rachel Abramowitz and Robert W. Welkos contributed to this story.
________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Mar-07-06 03:00 AM

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153. "Anatomy of an Oscar win (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Sorry, y'all, but as Triple H says, it's all about the game, and how you play it. From the L.A. Times:

>How 'Crash' went bang

In retrospect, that best picture win shouldn't come as such a shock. Here's why.

James Bates

Behind the Screens

March 6, 2006

At one point during his Sunday night Oscar monologue, host Jon Stewart rattled off the names of some of the actors he spotted in the Kodak Theatre who were in the movie "Crash": Sandra Bullock, Matt Dillon, Don Cheadle, Terrence Howard and Brendan Fraser.

Then, he suggested, it might be easier for the actors in the audience who weren't in the film to raise their hands.

The joke was funny, but it made a subtle point. A big ensemble production, "Crash" is an actor's film, which probably best explains why it upset "Brokeback Mountain" to win the best picture Oscar.

Much of the morning-after punditry and blog logic have centered on whether members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences had trouble giving "Brokeback Mountain" a best picture nod because of its gay love theme. Another theory: like a cinematic John Edwards, "Brokeback" peaked too early and its Oscar buzz dissipated.

In fact, the key to "Crash's" success was that the film — and the carefully orchestrated promotional campaign undertaken by its distributor, Lionsgate — appealed to the Academy's largest voting bloc: actors. With 22% of the Academy's voting members, the acting demographic is nearly three times as big as the next largest group — producers.

It was actors — specifically, those in Los Angeles — who were targeted to deliver votes. And judging by the upset, deliver they did.

Oscar voting results are known only to a couple of accountants at PricewaterhouseCoopers, so it is impossible to compare actors' voting habits to, say, those of writers or directors. Unlike a political election, the best anyone can do is offer educated guesses as to why any film won, or who voted for it.

Ultimately, a picture has to be popular — even one as polarizing as "Crash" that moviegoers and critics either loved or hated — because nobody votes for a movie they detest.

Still, one can't ignore the impact of the finely tuned Oscar strategy of Lionsgate and its parent, Lions Gate Entertainment Corp. The company opened its wallet at key times in January and February to allocate an extra $2 million — bringing its total spend to $4 million. Targeted were Los Angeles actors, the niche it needed to emerge from a field of five films, none of which was an obvious front-runner.

Indeed, Lionsgate's targeted campaign could prove a model for Oscar marketing in that it proved more effective than the usual carpet bombing approach. Some believe that awards impresarios such as Miramax co-founder Harvey Weinstein pushed so hard to get his films "Gangs of New York" and "The Aviator" statuettes that it turned off some voters.

"Crash" was the underdog from the start, with its difficult themes of racism and intolerance seeming no match for the love-is-universal underpinnings of the well-reviewed "Brokeback." "Crash" also had to overcome the bias Oscar voters usually show toward ensemble films. Good ensemble movies are popular with actors because they showcase the importance of subtle performances. But they rarely win best picture.

Ironically, maybe even fittingly, the same year "Crash" beat the odds, the honorary Oscar went to one of Hollywood's premiere big-cast directors: Robert Altman. It was Altman's first Oscar after a body of work that earned him Oscar nominations, but not wins, for ensemble pieces "Nashville," "MASH," "Gosford Park," "Short Cuts" and "The Player."

Critical to Lionsgate's campaign was its decision to mail out 130,000 cellophane-wrapped DVDs, including to about 110,000 actors. Not all recipients were Oscar voters. But "Crash" nonetheless won the best ensemble award from the Screen Actors Guild, an early tipoff that it might also have Oscar legs.

"Lionsgate's decision to send out the DVD to SAG was a really smart decision," one of the film's producers, Cathy Schulman, said Monday. "It was clear from the beginning of the film's release that the actors were really supporting the film.… I presume that's where a lot of the votes came from."

There were other early hints that "Crash" might go the distance. In the awards issued by Hollywood's directing, producing, art directing and writing guilds, "Crash" roughly held its own with "Brokeback" in nominations and wins.

When "Crash" received an editing Oscar nomination and "Brokeback" didn't, Lionsgate executives thought it might be a bellwether. Their research showed that the last time a film was named best picture without an editing nomination went back to the 1981 ceremony, when "Ordinary People" won. That indicated that the Academy's film editors branch, another key voting bloc, was in "Crash's" corner.

"Crash" also had in its favor a popular director and co-writer — Paul Haggis — who has worked with scores of actors during a long TV career on such shows as "The Facts of Life," "thirtysomething" and "Walker, Texas Ranger." Also popular with actors is Cheadle, who as well as starring in "Crash" was also a producer on the film.

"Crash" likely scored points with some actors because it was shot in Los Angeles at a time when runaway film production is a sore point. "Brokeback" was shot in Canada, financed in part by Canadian tax incentives.

"Crash" was also written about Los Angeles, which probably gave it additional home field advantage. Some 78% of the Academy's voting members live in California — the vast majority of them in the Los Angeles area. "Crash" won many outspoken local fans, including Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa.

By early January, Lions Gate had spent $2 million on trade ads and other promotions, but more was needed. The movie, which was released in May, was no longer in theaters, so getting the DVDs out was critical.

In the days leading up to the close of voting on Oscar nominations on Jan. 21, Lionsgate opened the spigot to spend another $500,000. Once "Crash" got its six nods on Jan. 31, including best picture, another $1.5 million was earmarked.

"The two most important things to our campaign were: Getting 'Crash' to be seen by everyone who needed to see it, and then reminding them of how 'Crash' made them feel," said Tom Ortenberg, president of Lionsgate Theatrical Films.

The logic was to first "win" the city, and then look for voters in the rest of the nation, mainly the New York contingent, to split its votes among "Crash" and the four other nominees, which also included "Capote," "Good Night, and Good Luck" and "Munich."

Ortenberg said that Lionsgate never intentionally ceded other parts of the country. But as a company with limited resources, he said, the focus had to be Los Angeles.

Indeed, because Lions Gate Entertainment is such a small public company, it had to own up to its additional spending -roughly 3 cents a share — last month in a conference call with Wall Street analysts. Some grilled company executives on the expenses, and whether the spending was worth it.

Hours after actor Jack Nicholson opened the envelope and announced "Crash" had won, that question appeared to be answered.

Overnight, "Crash" jumped 347% from No. 103 to No. 23 on Amazon.com's top DVD sellers. Early Monday, analyst David W. Miller of Sanders Morris Harris quickly revised his estimate that DVD sales of the reissue of "Crash" scheduled for April 4 would nearly double, to about 150,000 copies.

All told, Lions Gate Entertainment executives have estimated, the Oscar win could be worth as much as $10 million in additional money for "Crash," not only in DVD sales but in bigger payments when it is shown on TV.

But, as analyst Miller said Monday, "that might prove to be conservative."

Times staff writers Rachel Abramowitz and Robert W. Welkos contributed to this story.
________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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Illgamesh
Member since Jun 27th 2002
8436 posts
Thu Mar-09-06 01:48 AM

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159. "The real victim here is Chronenberg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not only did David Chronenberg make a far superior film called Crash about 10 years ago, one that actually had some interesting things to say (although those things were taken from the book he based the film off of) he also made a far superior film called A History of Violence that got no recognition.

Haggis's Crash was superficial, emotional-appeal trite. It works on people's emotions like porn work's on people's sexual urges. Be horrified at this, be sad at this, but never stop to consider anything. Pure pathos. Pure image. Pure surface. If you try to delve any deeper into Crash than the surface storyline, you come up with nothing. Nothing worth considering any further. You leave the theatre Feeling something, sure. Sappy music, sad scenes, we've been taught since the first movie we've seen to react to that. But it doesn't do anything other than that. It is to your heart what porn is to your dick. There is no engagement with your mind. It's a parlor trick, on the same level as The Family Stone or Aeon Flux. All surface. But because it screams "racism exists" (which we all know) it's supposed to be great?

Give me a break.

  

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DrNO
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Fri Mar-10-06 02:15 PM

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161. "He's openly hating on it"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

He says History of Violence wasn't explicitly anti-bush enough to win any Oscars and that Crash is a terrible movie that stole the name of his movie. He says he's aired these grievances to Haggis personally.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Mar-10-06 02:51 PM

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163. "Yeah, Memoirs of a Geisha was rather explicit in its Bush bashing"
In response to Reply # 161
Fri Mar-10-06 02:52 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

All of the reds and whites in that Oscar-winning art direction, the pan-Asian, Oscar-winning costumes, and the canted angles in the Oscar-winning cinematograpy all were obvious shots at the Bush administration.

He really can't be fucking serious. And he really has no right to talk about bad movies named Crash. I'll take on-the-nose race movies over ones featuring people fucking open wounds any day.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<------ And there it is.

  

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Illgamesh
Member since Jun 27th 2002
8436 posts
Fri Mar-10-06 04:29 PM

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165. "RE: Yeah, Memoirs of a Geisha was rather explicit in its Bush bashing"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          


>He really can't be fucking serious. And he really has no
>right to talk about bad movies named Crash. I'll take
>on-the-nose race movies over ones featuring people fucking
>open wounds any day.

Silliness. Crash is fucking fantastic (the old one).

I'm hard pressed to think of a better movie that came out last year than Chronenberg's Crash.

  

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DrNO
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Fri Mar-10-06 04:33 PM

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166. "I don't think he was talking about technical awards"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

His main point is that he's dissapointed that films that beat you over the head with their messages are so quickly praised.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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danthrax
Member since Mar 31st 2003
3719 posts
Fri Mar-10-06 05:05 PM

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168. "Crash =~ "Black or White" by Michael Jackson"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Both well produced, but absolutely braindead.

If you thought "Black or White" by Michael Jackson was one of the landmark songs about racism and opened your eyes to a whole new perspective on the issue, then you'll think "Crash" was a work of genius.

  

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bshelly
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Sat Mar-11-06 07:12 PM

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169. "having now seen it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you're right.

Crash sucks.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Mynoriti
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Sun Mar-12-06 02:44 AM

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170. "Crash hate is a movement"
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

welcome aboard

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85326 posts
Sun Mar-12-06 11:58 PM

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171. "A conversation on Crash:"
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

killbshelly: oh, and you were right about crash
BrickTamland: a-thank you
killbshelly: when he shot the little girl and had blanks, i almost threw up
killbshelly: every bad speech by ludicris and bendan fraser
killbshelly: every moment sandra bullock fouled my screen
killbshelly: ugh
BrickTamland: highlight: tony danza
killbshelly: even don cheadle was wrecked by his association
killbshelly: even he couldn't pull off that dialogue
BrickTamland: thandie newtons performance was called by entertainment weekly an oscar snub for her "brave and thought-provoking performance"
BrickTamland:
killbshelly: crash: the movie where you think everyone is a stereotype...BUT YOU'RE WRONG!!!
killbshelly: EVERYONE IS A REAL PERSON WITH REAL PROBLEMS!!!
killbshelly: i wasn't aware thandie newton was in the movie
killbshelly: i only saw the thandie newtbot cry and scream a thon 2000
killbshelly: why is the entire world such a bad judge of acting?

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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