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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Dec-06-06 02:24 PM

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"The Official PTP "Dreamgirls" Post"


  

          

Yes, I know it's a week and a half before the film is released (and two and a half weeks before its wide release), but I wanted to consolidate any and all "Dreamgirls"-related postings under one thread.

The premiere was Monday night. After posing on the red carpet for a few snapshots, The Yonce cut out early to go celebrate Jay-Z's birthday. They paid her $12.5 million to appear in this picture and co-write and co-produce "Listen" (making her the highest paid black actress in cinema history), and she couldn't even stay for the premiere? Jay's gon' have more birthdays, sister! But you're going to have only one "Dreamgirls" premiere.

The original Broadway cast was all invited (dunno if they showed up or not)...except for Jennifer Holliday, whom I hear is (quite) difficult to work with, and long ago got on David Geffen's bad side (ooo ooo ooo....*rimshot*). Holliday ran, not walked, to "The Wendy Williams Experience" ("Experience?" Who the hell does she think she is, Jimi Hendrix?), and attempted to dredge up sympathy from a listening public who doesn't know that there;s a lot more to why she didn't get ot go to the premiere (they've hardly forgotten about the original Broadway actors; Loretta Devine and Hinton Battle both appear in the film).

Other than this, the premiere went on as scheduled. The film recieved a standing ovation, and Jennifer Hudson's "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" scene received its own standing ovation (in particular from a weeping Rosie O'Donnell...lol). The film has apparently been altered from the version I saw in November -- seven minutes have been added to the runtime.

---

And now, here's a (short but sweet) scene from "Dreamgirls", of Jennifer Hudson as Effie White singing "Love You I Do", a song written for the film by original "Dreamgirls" composer Henry Krieger and 80's R&B singer Siedah Garrett:

hxxp://www.sendspace.com/file/5kjgeo

This scene is part of the "Dreamgirls" movie trailer podcast (that means it's LEGAL, mods!): it's in iTunes as a free download, but it's apparently not up on Apple.com yet.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Was Mos Def attached to this filck at some point
Dec 06th 2006
1
I haven't heard anything about Mos being attached....
Dec 06th 2006
2
      RE: I haven't heard anything about Mos being attached....
Dec 14th 2006
23
           I found this:
Dec 14th 2006
24
EVERYONE WHO'S SEEING THIS MOVIE SHOULD SEE THIS
Dec 06th 2006
3
you'll be pleased to know the film version is just as good.
Dec 06th 2006
4
i came in here just to make sure someone posted this!
Dec 06th 2006
8
oh, and BTW: Hudson's "I Am Chaning" is better than Holliday's IMHO.
Dec 07th 2006
9
RE: EVERYONE WHO'S SEEING THIS MOVIE SHOULD SEE THIS
Dec 10th 2006
13
      Wow I could see that
Jan 10th 2007
123
Highly, highly entertaining movie. SPOILERS
Dec 06th 2006
5
Dec 06th 2006
7
Beyonce's listen
Jan 10th 2007
124
      After seeing it a second time, I agree (SPOILERS)
Jan 10th 2007
126
           RE: After seeing it a second time, I agree (SPOILERS)
Jan 10th 2007
127
           Sure it was. All that stuff you described comes in the late 2nd act-
Jan 10th 2007
128
                So you're talking about acknowledgement of Curtis' control
Jan 10th 2007
129
                     No. Curtis took control of the girls from the moment they agreed to
Jan 13th 2007
136
           One thing though
Jan 10th 2007
130
                Actually, she didn't literally "agree" to "x" out Effie
Jan 12th 2007
132
The highest paid Black actress, WTF!
Dec 06th 2006
6
RE: The highest paid Black actress, WTF!
Dec 10th 2006
14
      I believe this figure is all inclusive for being in the movie, co-writin...
Dec 10th 2006
15
More clips (link):
Dec 07th 2006
10
RE: The Official PTP "Dreamgirls" Post
Dec 09th 2006
11
Two thumbs up from "Ebert" (actually Aisha Tyler) and Roper.
Dec 09th 2006
12
Awards score so far: J. Hudson, 3; Movie, 1
Dec 10th 2006
16
The score is currently: J. Hudson, 7; Movie, 1
Dec 14th 2006
22
      Okay, I've officially lost count. Jennifer Hudson is going to have
Dec 18th 2006
32
PTP affiliates in NY, LA, and SF:
Dec 13th 2006
17
@@@@@!!!
Dec 14th 2006
18
lol @ Urkel.
Dec 14th 2006
19
      annnd...
Dec 14th 2006
20
Eddie Murphy came with heat in this one
Dec 14th 2006
21
RE: The Official PTP "Dreamgirls" Post
Dec 15th 2006
25
Conive me this movie doesn't/won't suck
Dec 16th 2006
26
they've finally admitted it's loosley based upon the Supremes
Dec 16th 2006
27
What if Mario Van Peebles had Directed "Dreamgirls"?
Dec 16th 2006
28
hahahaha
Dec 24th 2006
38
Production notes (long)
Dec 16th 2006
29
Uhm, I should note that the "Legacy" section of these production
Dec 16th 2006
30
"Dreamgirls" Breaks Record in Opening Weekend
Dec 18th 2006
31
this movie is going to make more money than God
Dec 23rd 2006
34
      pretty much. It's already made $624,000 in three theaters.
Dec 23rd 2006
35
           did you see my roadshow post?
Dec 23rd 2006
36
                I saw. Glad you liked the movie.
Dec 27th 2006
67
up.
Dec 23rd 2006
33
On Eddie Murphy/the James Early character *kinda SPOILER*
Dec 24th 2006
37
I don't know why I haven't responded to this post yet, but
Jan 07th 2007
108
Boomerrang didn't garner as many laughs
Jan 10th 2007
125
RE: On Eddie Murphy/the James Early character *kinda SPOILER*
Jan 19th 2007
150
absolutely incredible flick.
Dec 25th 2006
39
I loved it.
Dec 25th 2006
40
weird, it was the opposite where I saw it....
Dec 26th 2006
44
      RE: weird, it was the opposite where I saw it....
Dec 26th 2006
49
           yep
Dec 26th 2006
53
horrible.the film was not directed well at all.
Dec 25th 2006
41
Great
Dec 25th 2006
42
great movie. good performances, funny moments...
Dec 26th 2006
43
thank
Dec 26th 2006
57
Beyonce, I take it all back.
Dec 26th 2006
45
so um, why's jennifer getting supporting nods, not leads?
Dec 26th 2006
46
Freddy isn't here so...
Dec 26th 2006
47
      I still think it's contractural myself.
Dec 27th 2006
69
hmmm, i thot Eddie was doing his Nutty Professor Buddy Love bit
Dec 26th 2006
48
Jimmy got Soul!
Dec 26th 2006
50
dropping his pants was Marvin too
Dec 26th 2006
52
      that was one of my two favorite eddie parts. that and...
Dec 26th 2006
59
good, not great
Dec 26th 2006
51
exactly
Dec 26th 2006
56
      None of them are oscar-worthy actors, well the girls aren't...
Dec 26th 2006
58
      Jennifer Hudson SONNED Halle Berry in Monsters Ball
Dec 27th 2006
60
           lmao
Dec 27th 2006
61
                Halle DID NOT deserve that Oscar....
Dec 27th 2006
64
                RE: lmao
Dec 27th 2006
65
                     Well, you're entitled to your opinion.
Dec 27th 2006
66
                     WRONG!!!!!!
Dec 28th 2006
74
                          Well done.
Jan 09th 2007
115
      I said the same thing about "Chicago", only "speaking/acting" and
Dec 27th 2006
68
Liked it a lot
Dec 26th 2006
54
i was disappointed
Dec 26th 2006
55
luvlee's thoughts on the Blk Gay Superbowl
Dec 27th 2006
62
True, but my theatre was 95% white.
Dec 28th 2006
71
TOP 10 PLEASANT SURPRISE MOVIE VIEWINGS OF MY LIFE.
Dec 27th 2006
63
#3 on Christmas Day
Dec 27th 2006
70
"Jimmy Got SOOOOOOOUL!!!!!"
Dec 28th 2006
72
I ordered one of the road show programs on eBay as my
Dec 28th 2006
73
RE: The Official PTP "Dreamgirls" Post
Dec 28th 2006
75
GARBAGE!!!
Dec 29th 2006
76
      how was apocolypto
Dec 30th 2006
78
I LOVED Jennifer Hudson. Loved loved loved the big song.
Dec 29th 2006
77
I heart this movie aka BEYONCE is so damn sexy!
Dec 30th 2006
79
She was lookin VERY fine. That last outfit? Lord have mercy.
Dec 30th 2006
81
      I preferred early Beyonce. Her plain Jane steeze...........BONG!
Dec 30th 2006
82
           when she left the note on her mom's couch
Dec 30th 2006
83
just saw it...i loved it.
Dec 30th 2006
80
Greeat Movie
Dec 30th 2006
84
well done
Dec 31st 2006
85
so...financially speaking, is this movie a flop?
Jan 01st 2007
86
This movie is doing VERY well.
Jan 01st 2007
87
On: The Music in "Dreamgirls"
Jan 01st 2007
88
RE: On: The Music in "Dreamgirls"
Jan 23rd 2007
167
Wow. They really got it right.
Jan 02nd 2007
89
Please Explain This To Me
Jan 02nd 2007
90
it's apparently strategic, so Hudson has
Jan 02nd 2007
91
      RE: it's apparently strategic, so Hudson has
Jan 02nd 2007
92
           It's one great big media conspiracy.
Jan 02nd 2007
93
                LOL.
Jan 02nd 2007
94
really enjoyed it
Jan 02nd 2007
95
Trust me when I say it's less "Muzak" than the Broadway version.
Jan 03rd 2007
98
Fiya review
Jan 03rd 2007
96
RE: Fiya review
Jan 03rd 2007
97
      2:05
Jan 03rd 2007
99
      Dreamgirls...The Memphis Experience (spoilers)
Jan 03rd 2007
100
           Yes she was. Fantasia didn't make the cut.
Jan 03rd 2007
103
           RE: Dreamgirls...The Memphis Experience (spoilers)
Jan 08th 2007
110
           she SURE DID look like margaret avery!!!!
Jan 09th 2007
116
                Fantasia would have sucked though...
Jan 16th 2007
146
Critic Pimp Slaps Dream Girls
Jan 03rd 2007
101
I remember reading this review.
Jan 03rd 2007
102
RE: What a turd.
Jan 09th 2007
118
      actually, I find "Dreamgirls" to be a showpiece for Black pride.
Jan 09th 2007
119
           RE: actually, I find "Dreamgirls" to be a showpiece for Black pride.
Jan 11th 2007
131
                That's not really an over analysis. That's what hit me
Jan 12th 2007
134
And now: film-geek talk on the adaptation and the film's Oscar chances.
Jan 03rd 2007
104
RE: And now: film-geek talk on the adaptation and the film's Oscar chanc...
Jan 05th 2007
106
      RE: And now: film-geek talk on the adaptation and the film's Oscar chanc...
Jan 05th 2007
107
RE: Outstanding!
Jan 04th 2007
105
Saw this a 2nd time. Can't stop listening to the sndtk.
Jan 08th 2007
109
i have seen it 3x now.
Jan 08th 2007
111
I saw this movie over the weekend and
Jan 08th 2007
112
RE: I saw this movie over the weekend and
Jan 08th 2007
113
      Well, there are always naysayers, no matter what
Jan 09th 2007
114
           Naw...not really...
Jan 09th 2007
120
Okay, this is the first time I've ever followed the Oscar race
Jan 09th 2007
117
One "plot hole" and you're ready to bail, eh? lol j/k
Jan 09th 2007
121
the p**g**** thing isn't a plot hole; they explained it to me.
Jan 10th 2007
122
what were your plothole issues & how did th ey explain them to you?
Jan 13th 2007
138
      *spoilers*
Jan 14th 2007
141
Forgot to add Children of Men
Jan 12th 2007
133
After seeing it a second time, I disagree. It's a Top 5 of the year.
Jan 13th 2007
135
      I agree that it was better the second time I saw it
Jan 13th 2007
137
thumbs up.
Jan 14th 2007
139
you should check out these books if you get a chance:
Jan 14th 2007
140
Having seen this for the 2nd time, I must say its an experience....
Jan 14th 2007
142
I agree with most of this, except for two points:
Jan 15th 2007
143
This version of Dreamgirls is "The Wiz" of our generation
Jan 16th 2007
145
Jimmy Got SOUL!
Jan 15th 2007
144
Diana Ross on "Dreamgirls: "Maybe I should go see it with my lawyer."
Jan 16th 2007
147
Wait a minute - they hand out Oscars based upon GG speeches!?!
Jan 17th 2007
148
wtf?
Jan 17th 2007
149
I wish I saw this in a crowded theater.
Jan 20th 2007
151
Dreamgirls revisited; 2nd Thoughts...
Jan 21st 2007
152
??????
Jan 21st 2007
153
So I assume that...
Jan 21st 2007
154
      Well...
Jan 21st 2007
155
           I think this is our main point of difference in opinion
Jan 21st 2007
156
                Not quite...
Jan 21st 2007
157
                     I think we primarily disagree on what holds true for the future
Jan 21st 2007
159
                          Eh...
Jan 21st 2007
161
RE: Dreamgirls revisited; 2nd Thoughts...
Jan 21st 2007
158
      Yeah, well I guess I was...
Jan 21st 2007
160
           But Deena saved her musical career in the end
Jan 21st 2007
162
                Yeah, well I think...
Jan 21st 2007
163
                     yeah, in real life, Deena's wig woulda been snatched
Jan 21st 2007
164
Video clips fro mthe post-Golden Globe interviews
Jan 22nd 2007
165
Longo, why you set us adrift, man?
Jan 22nd 2007
166
:(
Jan 24th 2007
168
Effie White has a greater enemy than Curtis Taylor: PHOTOSHOP.
Mar 21st 2007
169
hilarious.
Mar 21st 2007
170

manythoughts
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Wed Dec-06-06 05:02 PM

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1. "Was Mos Def attached to this filck at some point"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I remember reading it somewhere. I wonder which role and what stopped him from being in it.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Dec-06-06 05:23 PM

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2. "I haven't heard anything about Mos being attached...."
In response to Reply # 1
Wed Dec-06-06 05:25 PM by Nukkapedia

  

          

...and the roles I could see him playing would be Curtis (played by Jamie Foxx) or maybe Wayne (played by Hinton Battle). But I'm pretty sure DreamWorks only persued two people for Curtis: Jamie Foxx and Denzel Washington.

As far as bit parts go, there are tons he could have done -- even Jaleel White has a small part in the movie.

  

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manythoughts
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Thu Dec-14-06 06:51 PM

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23. "RE: I haven't heard anything about Mos being attached...."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

I read it on wikipeida. That was my mistake.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Thu Dec-14-06 09:08 PM

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24. "I found this:"
In response to Reply # 23
Thu Dec-14-06 09:32 PM by Nukkapedia

  

          

http://blackvoices.aol.com/black_entertainment/featurecanvas/_a/bv-entertainment-newswire-jan-6-patti/20060106121809990001

Looks like he was one of several people trying out that wasn't cast.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Dec-06-06 06:27 PM

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3. "EVERYONE WHO'S SEEING THIS MOVIE SHOULD SEE THIS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg32-O-AHyE

Yes, it might spoil a small detail or two, but nothing more than the trailer would spoil.

YOU MUST SEE JENNIFER HOLLIDAY. THIS PERFORMANCE IS INCREDIBLE.

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Dec-06-06 06:39 PM

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4. "you'll be pleased to know the film version is just as good."
In response to Reply # 3
Wed Dec-06-06 06:40 PM by Nukkapedia

  

          

well, the acting at least.

Jennifer Hudson is a great (GREAT) singer, but Jennifer Holliday was almost supernatural. To say Hudson came within a micrometer of touching Holliday is not a slight to her, as many people over the years have either warbled through "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" hideously, or put 126578.6 runs into the song and lost the feeling and emotion.

I've heard Holliday's "And I Am Telling You" many times, and I've seen that clip several times, but Hudson's version still almost made me cry.

  

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ororo_munroe
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Wed Dec-06-06 11:55 PM

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8. "i came in here just to make sure someone posted this!"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

after watching this song be absolutely wrecked to the point that it's actually a commonly referenced joke, it's amazing that this clip gives me shivers

EVERY.
DAMN.
TIME.

i don't expect jennifer hudson to come close to the original...that would be too unfair.

but i'm sure it's lovely and i love that she's getting the buzz she's getting re: her performance.

______________________________
for a minute there, i lost myself.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Thu Dec-07-06 12:01 AM

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9. "oh, and BTW: Hudson's "I Am Chaning" is better than Holliday's IMHO."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Holliday may be the technical better singer, but there's a sincerity and emotion in Hudson's "I Am Changing" that sells the song for me.

  

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noelleeeeeeee
Member since Jul 08th 2006
807 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 10:31 AM

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13. "RE: EVERYONE WHO'S SEEING THIS MOVIE SHOULD SEE THIS"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Whitney Houston was attached this film a long time ago. Also, so was Lauryn Hill.

Both were to said have interest in the Deena Character.

  

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Cre8
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Wed Jan-10-07 11:31 AM

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123. "Wow I could see that"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

particularly w/ Whitney(80's- er 90's). Lauryn voice just a bit too raspy for the mild meek sound of Deena.

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Wed Dec-06-06 07:52 PM

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5. "Highly, highly entertaining movie. SPOILERS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

No, the story isn't perfect, some of the line readings were off, and yes, it's a musical. But damn if it wasn't exciting to look at and listen to. And in this case, that's all you really need.

And you might as well pencil in Eddie Murphy and Jennifer Hudson for Oscar wins. Not nominations, but WINS.

Same for the movie itself. Don't be shocked if it happens.

And yeah, Jennifer Holliday's mad. And yeah, she killed it back in 1982. Much respect due. But this is 2006, and Jennifer Hudson OWNS this movie. Owns it. And instead of grumbling, Ms. Holliday should be honored that her role (the one that's the emotional core of the story) has been so wonderfully realized. Hudson's performance of "And I Am Telling You..." is the very definition of a showstopper. Period. Nitpick and hate and bitch and moan about... whatever... if you must, but the rest of the audience you see this with will most likely be clapping by the end of the number. LOUDLY. Even though "Jennifer Hudson can't see you."

And Eddie... yeah, he's doing a variation on his old roles (the fast-talking flim-flam man), but only to a degree. Believe me when I say, he got soul. So he good. Real good.

At the risk of coming off like an alleged Beyonce stan, can I please make a request to keep the Beyonce hate/gossip out of this particular post? It's pretty clear that Deena's not the focus of the story, and anyone who doesn't have their head up their (or General Discussion's) ass can see that Beyonce's clearly fine with playing the background for the majority of the film. And I say she did a fine job "channeling" Diana Ross. I mean, that's all the role really called for, imo. However, I do take points from the latter half of the film for her solo number, which screams of "Beyonce's not doing this movie unless she gets her own showcase song." To me, it's a nice song, but it doesn't really belong in the movie.

Jamie Foxx was fine, but there were points where I thought he looked confused or unsure as to what exactly he was supposed to be playing. And there were a couple of times where he looked like he was told to "pull up" and not take his performance to the even darker place he thought it should go to. But he was fine. I also give Keith Robinson points for his performance, though storywise I though it was odd that he wouldn't at least try and seek out his sister at some point... I also dug Anika Noni Rose's performance, but it felt like her character was the most severely underwritten of the three ladies...

And like I said, the story doesn't really come together as well as it should, but there's a lot going on, a lot of ground to cover here, and I thought Bill Condon did a remarkable job of getting the main story points across. And I loved the cinematography (by Tobias Schliessler) and particularly the production design by John Mhyre... and I apologize in advance, but this has to be said... those of you who like to, well, seek out period inconsistencies and falsehoods will be sorely disappointed here. As far as I could tell, every single detail is correct.

And I know you Armchair Activists, Mau-Maus with Modems, Broadband Garveys, Radio Shack Revolutionaries, etc, are reading this. This film, and The Pursuit of Happyness, are your final chances in 2006 to stop complaining about how black people are looking and get out and support. Yes, black people dance in the movie (with choreography by Fatima Robinson). *GASP!* And they also sing. *DOUBLE GASP!* But they also generally act their asses off. Place those wringing hands in a bucket of popcorn and enjoy the show.

So, again, this is top-notch filmmaking. The movie's really about putting on a show, and as such, it's one of the top pictures of the year.
_______________________________________________________________________
"Would you get your face out of that computer? Life is happening all around you, and you're watching the commentary."
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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Dec-06-06 11:33 PM

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7. ""
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Dec-06-06 11:36 PM by Nukkapedia

  

          

I was just baffled that she walked out on the premiere.

Oh, and Keith Robinson's C.C. character doesn't seek his sister out, but he does send her money.

Anika Noni Rose's Lorrell IS severely underwritten.

And there IS a factual inconsistency: the Detroit riots occur a year before they're supposed to.

  

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Cre8
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Wed Jan-10-07 12:01 PM

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124. "Beyonce's listen"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

When I saw the music video I was NOT MOVED, but when seeing it in the movie I was blown. It was like the puppet coming alive and cutting its strings to be a real boy and I really appreciated the fact that I could not see bobble head bouncing, neck rolling, ass shaking Beyonce but see that same energy in facial expression from the pain of Deena Jones finally breaking free from a coniving greedy snake in the grass overseerer/husband.

I wish Beyonce would come across like that more often as oppose to straight face posing and yanking her head or body to convey emotion.

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Wed Jan-10-07 01:17 PM

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126. "After seeing it a second time, I agree (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

The first time the moment didn't feel "earned," meaning I felt we hadn't seen enough of the Deena-Curtis dynamic to believe it would come down to this declaration of independence.

The second time I saw it I really realized that Curtis had been controlling Deena (and the Dreams) from day one, and since the story is supposed to cover roughly 10-12 years, that's a pretty long time to be under someone's thumb... it still would have been nice to see or hear some kind of bug being put in Deena's ear about being controlled by Curtis... yeah, seeing Effie's album cover is the deal clincher, and we also get a hint of it when Deena meets with the filmmakers and they take a shot at Curtis trying to make Cleopatra with mob money, but I dunno, maybe seeing a cliche scene of Deena watching a feminist on TV or something might have helped me a little more... still, it's a powerful number (though I also wondered if Curtis knew that the song was about him, and if he did, why he'd allow Deena to continue recording it)... ah, that's being nitpicky...
_______________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. United 93

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Jan-10-07 01:54 PM

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127. "RE: After seeing it a second time, I agree (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

I thought the "Curtis controlls Deena" thing was virtually bludgeoned into us.

-the drooling gaze and obsessive attentio nt odetail Curits gives Deena during the photo shoot.
-the gigantic pictures of her everywhere, including their bedroom.
-how they address each other like daughter and father, not husband and wife
-and, of course, the entire dinner scene, esp. "you can't even take a shit and wipe your own ass unless I say it's okay."

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Wed Jan-10-07 02:13 PM

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128. "Sure it was. All that stuff you described comes in the late 2nd act-"
In response to Reply # 127
Wed Jan-10-07 02:15 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

early 3rd act. What I'm saying is that his control of her came way before all of that, from the moment he hooked all of them up with Jimmy on... because of this, the "When I First Saw You" number takes a completely different, darker shade when thought about in the context of the entire story... it encapsulates the ENTIRE Curtis-Deena relationship (including when she was with The Dreamettes/Dreams), not just at that moment, if that makes sense...
_______________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. United 93

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Jan-10-07 05:40 PM

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129. "So you're talking about acknowledgement of Curtis' control"
In response to Reply # 128
Wed Jan-10-07 05:40 PM by Nukkapedia

  

          

early on?

"Y'all are gonna do what I tell you," when Deena protests taking Effie's spot as lead, is the first instance I can find. We get teasers following that, until after "The Song", it becomes obvious even to the three-year-olds in the audience.

Oh, and a lot of the songs in "Dreamgirls" have dark or at least unususal themes/subtexts:

-"Fake Your Way to the Top". It's all in the lyrics. Jimmy Early's been in the music biz since 1949, and he's gotten where he is with more soul than actual talent.

-"Family" - meant to be seen as entirely sardonic after you see more of the story unravel, and this is underscored by having the song reprised twice.

-"Dreamgirls" - Curtis and C.C. cross over to the pop charts by having the Dreams present themselves as sexual fantasies to the men in the audience (the girls fondle the mic stands as they sing the opening bars of the song). Says a lot about what white audiences of the 1960s thought of The Supremes, and why a Black male group would never have been the first Motown group to fully cross over.

But some (all?) of this is, of course, obvious.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sat Jan-13-07 03:02 PM

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136. "No. Curtis took control of the girls from the moment they agreed to"
In response to Reply # 129
Sat Jan-13-07 03:05 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

sing backup for Jimmy Early. You brought up his changing the group dynamic, but I'm saying go back further.
__________________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. United 93

  

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Cre8
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Wed Jan-10-07 06:36 PM

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130. "One thing though"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

Deena DID have the same drive as Curtis and started to morph into him which is shown when she agrees to ex out Effie's existence in the history of the Dreamettes. I think the booboo really started to stink when he refused to have a child with her. Just imagine, ya own husband not wanting to have a kid with you. Although that song was not originally in the stageplay it made so much sense in story and gave Deena something she honestly never had...her own voice.
I'm really proud that Beyonce did play this role. It really shows different sides of her, that despite the bs in DC and her overbearing father who in everyway resembles Curtis character, the overthetop Diva stuff...she can take a seat without falling off or fallin out.

Food/Drink PlayersCookbook Info:
To help: L9 Health Clinic http://www.commongroundrelief.org/node/242
DEADLINE: November 22, 2006
Please submit your recipes to playerscookbook@yahoo.com or inbox and don't forget PHOTOS.

*********************************

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Fri Jan-12-07 12:44 AM

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132. "Actually, she didn't literally "agree" to "x" out Effie"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

It was more of a passive thing, she was just going along for the ride

That's the reason why she stares at the promo film so hard whilst smoking her cigarette, she's thinking about that shit. If I remember correctly, after the narrator talks about the group and names the group names, there's a cut to Deena taking a pensive drag from her cigarette, that's supposed to plant a bit of a seed that she's not really feeling what's going on...
_________________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. United 93

  

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da_afrocentric_pimpstah
Member since Jun 28th 2005
366 posts
Wed Dec-06-06 09:56 PM

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6. "The highest paid Black actress, WTF!"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Dec-06-06 09:58 PM by da_afrocentric_pimps

  

          

You have Black women who been on the grind for years yet Yonce nets $12 million. F the free market!


>Yes, I know it's a week and a half before the film is
>released (and two and a half weeks before its wide release),
>but I wanted to consolidate any and all "Dreamgirls"-related
>postings under one thread.
>
>The premiere was Monday night. After posing on the red carpet
>for a few snapshots, The Yonce cut out early to go celebrate
>Jay-Z's birthday. They paid her $12.5 million to appear in
>this picture and co-write and co-produce "Listen" (making her
>the highest paid black actress in cinema history), and she
>couldn't even stay for the premiere? Jay's gon' have more
>birthdays, sister! But you're going to have only one
>"Dreamgirls" premiere.
>
>The original Broadway cast was all invited (dunno if they
>showed up or not)...except for Jennifer Holliday, whom I hear
>is (quite) difficult to work with, and long ago got on David
>Geffen's bad side (ooo ooo ooo....*rimshot*). Holliday ran,
>not walked, to "The Wendy Williams Experience" ("Experience?"
>Who the hell does she think she is, Jimi Hendrix?), and
>attempted to dredge up sympathy from a listening public who
>doesn't know that there;s a lot more to why she didn't get ot
>go to the premiere (they've hardly forgotten about the
>original Broadway actors; Loretta Devine and Hinton Battle
>both appear in the film).
>
>Other than this, the premiere went on as scheduled. The film
>recieved a standing ovation, and Jennifer Hudson's "And I Am
>Telling You I'm Not Going" scene received its own standing
>ovation (in particular from a weeping Rosie O'Donnell...lol).
>The film has apparently been altered from the version I saw in
>November -- seven minutes have been added to the runtime.
>
>---
>
>And now, here's a (short but sweet) scene from "Dreamgirls",
>of Jennifer Hudson as Effie White singing "Love You I Do", a
>song written for the film by original "Dreamgirls" composer
>Henry Krieger and 80's R&B singer Siedah Garrett:
>
>hxxp://www.sendspace.com/file/5kjgeo
>
>This scene is part of the "Dreamgirls" movie trailer podcast
>(that means it's LEGAL, mods!): it's in iTunes as a free
>download, but it's apparently not up on Apple.com yet.

"I am what I defend" Don Cheadle quoting an African proverb before Skippy Gates, all puppy eyed, told him about is genetic ancestry.

  

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noelleeeeeeee
Member since Jul 08th 2006
807 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 11:48 AM

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14. "RE: The highest paid Black actress, WTF!"
In response to Reply # 6


          

They paid her $12.5 million to appear in
>this picture and co-write and co-produce "Listen" (making her
>the highest paid black actress in cinema history), and she
>couldn't even stay for the premiere?



This CAN'T BE CORRECT?????????????????? Does Halle get paid more?

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 12:00 PM

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15. "I believe this figure is all inclusive for being in the movie, co-writin..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

a song, co-producing a song, and catching quite a bit of the back end on the soundtrack.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Thu Dec-07-06 08:20 AM

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10. "More clips (link):"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-07-06 08:32 AM by Nukkapedia

  

          

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/2-1&fp=45781794ae6d90cd&ei=0BF4RZDkLozMHMiHmYUJ&url=http%3A//www.iesb.net/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_d4j_ezine%26task%3Dread%26page%3D1%26category%3D3%26article%3D891%26Itemid%3D30&cid=1111776933

  

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MrSpock
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Sat Dec-09-06 02:16 PM

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11. "RE: The Official PTP "Dreamgirls" Post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I haven't been this geeked for a Christmas movie release since "The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King." Seriously. I have listened to Hudson's version of "And I am Telling You" over and over again--she KILLS it. Slays that song dead. I am anticipating having a fit during this song--it's gonna be ugly.

==============================
"Ya know, making an engineer the commander of Pegasus is like giving the counselor of the Enterprise the helm. Only bad things can come of it."--nipsey, speaking truth about the late Cmdr. Gardner of the Battlestar Pegasus

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sat Dec-09-06 07:06 PM

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12. "Two thumbs up from "Ebert" (actually Aisha Tyler) and Roper."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Dec-09-06 07:07 PM by Nukkapedia

  

          

Although Roper though the score was too "Broadway" and wanted something that sounded closer to Motown. Lord, please don't ever let him hear the original cast recordings, he'll hate them!

http://a.movies.go.com/downloads/podcasts/ebert/061211-podcast.mp3

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sun Dec-10-06 09:28 PM

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16. "Awards score so far: J. Hudson, 3; Movie, 1"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Jennifer Hudson:
Breakthrough Performance (Female) - National Board of Review
Breakthrough Performer - New York Film Critics Online
Best Supporting Actress - New York Film Critics Online

Dreamgirls:
AFI Awards 2006

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Thu Dec-14-06 01:43 PM

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22. "The score is currently: J. Hudson, 7; Movie, 1"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Dec-18-06 11:40 PM

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32. "Okay, I've officially lost count. Jennifer Hudson is going to have"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

a mantelpiece full of awards...and the film itself is going just fine as well.

* Golden Globe Awards
o Best Picture: Comedy or Musical - Nomination
o Best Actress in a Motion Picture - Comedy or Musical (Beyoncé Knowles) - Nomination
o Best Supporting Actor in a Motion Picture (Eddie Murphy) - Nomination
o Best Supporting Actress in a Motion Picture (Jennifer Hudson) - Nomination
o Best Original Song in a Motion Picture ("Listen"; music & lyrics by Henry Krieger, Anne Previn, Scott Cutler, Beyoncé Knowles) - Nomination

* American Film Institute (AFI) Awards 2006
o Movies of the Year - Inclusion

* Black Reel Awards
o Best Film - Nomination
o Best Actor (Jamie Foxx) - Nomination
o Best Actress (Beyoncé Knowles) - Nomination
o Best Supporting Actor (Eddie Murphy) - Nomination
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson) - Nomination
o Best Breakthrough Performance (Jennifer Hudson) - Nomination
o Best Original Score (Harvey Mason, Jr. & Damon Thomas) - Nomination
o Best Original Soundtrack (DreamWorks SKG/Music World/Columbia) - Nomination
o Best Song, Original or Adapted
+ "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" (performed by Jennifer Hudson) - Nomination
+ "Listen" (performed by Beyoncé Knowles) - Nomination
+ "One Night Only" (performed by Jennifer Hudson) - Nomination

* Broadcast Film Critics Association
o Best Picture - Nomination
o Best Supporting Actor (Eddie Murphy)- Nominaton
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson)- Nomination
o Best Acting Ensemble - Nomination
o Best Director (Bill Condon)- Nomination
o Best Song "Listen" (Henry Krieger, Anne Previn, Scott Cutler, Beyoncé Knowles)- Nomination
o Best Soundtrack - Nominaton

* Dallas-Fort Worth Film Critics Association
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson)- Runner-Up

* Hollywood Life Awards
o Breakthrough of the Year Award (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner

* Las Vegas Film Critics Society
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner

* Los Angeles Film Critics Association
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson) - Runner-Up

* National Board of Review of Motion Pictures
o Best Breakthrough Performance - Female (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner

* New York Film Critics Circle
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner
o Best Supporting Actor (Eddie Murphy) - Runner-Up

* New York Film Critics Online
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson) - - Winner, tied with For Your Consideration (Catherine O'Hara)
o Breakthrough Performer (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner

* Satellite Awards
o Best Motion Picture, Comedy or Musical - Winner
o Best Director (Bill Condon) - Winner, tied with Flags of Our Fathers (Clint Eastwood)
o Best Actress in a Motion Picture, Comedy or Musical (Beyoncé Knowles) - Nomination
o Best Actress in a Supporting Role (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner
o Best Screenplay - Adapted (Bill Condon) - Nomination
o Best Original Song
+ "Love You I Do" (Henry Krieger, Siedah Garrett) - Nomination
+ "Listen" (Henry Krieger, Anne Previn, Scott Cutler, Beyoncé Knowles) - Nomination
o Film Editing (Virgina Katz) - Nomination
o Sound (Editing & Mixing) (Willie Burton, Michael Minkler, Bob Beemer, Richard E. Yawn) - Winner
o Art Direction & Production Design (John Myhre, Tomas Voth, Nancy Haigh) - Nomination
o Costume Design (Sharen Davis) - Nomination

* Toronto Film Critics Association
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson) - Nomination

* 2006 Southeastern Film Critics Association Poll
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner

* Washington, DC Area Film Critics Association
o Best Supporting Actress (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner
o Best Breakthrough Performance (Jennifer Hudson) - Winner

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 09:20 AM

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17. "PTP affiliates in NY, LA, and SF:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if you plan to go to the roadshow, BUY YOUR TICKETS NOW.

The movie is already sold out in NY for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. The first showings in LA and San Fransisco are also sold out.

  

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ju_BOOM
Member since Aug 28th 2003
15639 posts
Thu Dec-14-06 08:57 AM

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18. "@@@@@!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

J Hud KILT it!!
Eddie...(capped teef were a throw-off)...did tha damn thang!
Jamie act'ted his ass off!
actor who played CC..good too
Yonce was aight
Urkel!

missed some of the B'way musical parts
"tell me Ms Jones how does it feel..." press conference
"showbiz" background chorus when Jimmy's dropped by Lorell
hope it makes dvd extras if was filmed



  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Thu Dec-14-06 09:38 AM

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19. "lol @ Urkel."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Yeah. We were like "wasn't that Steve Urkel?" after the movie.

As for the dropped Broadway stuff...

Bill Condon originally had kept the sung dialogue where C.C. apologizes to Effie - "Effie it's been all these years/you haven't even said hello". It was cut & replaced with a dialogue version because test audiences began to snicker. It will be on the DVD.

The following elements from the play were written out of the script and never shot:
-Much of the sung dialogue, including the "show-biz" chorus.
-Both "Press Conference" songs (I guess they thought they'd be too close to "Chicago's" "We Both Reached for the Gun")
-The "Party-Party" sequence (replaced with "Love YOu I Do" and the scenes at the Cadillac dealership turned record label - can I just say that is one fo the best set designs I've ever seen?)
-The "One More Picture Please" was folded into "When I First Saw You"
-The Five Tuxedos and "Got to Be Good Times" were replaced wit hthe Campbell Connection and "Perfect World" a(a good move, IMO - audiences will be more responsive to a Jackson 5 parody than a Temptations/Four Tops one)
-Lorrell's "Ain't No Party" song (presumably because they couldn't "R&B" it up successfully)

  

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ju_BOOM
Member since Aug 28th 2003
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Thu Dec-14-06 10:20 AM

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20. "annnd..."
In response to Reply # 19


          

John Lithgow & dude from the Office LOL
annnd...
Ken (forget his last name) from Orig. Aint Misbehavin B'way cast

>As for the dropped Broadway stuff...
>Bill Condon originally had kept the sung dialogue where C.C.
>apologizes to Effie - "Effie it's been all these years/you
>haven't even said hello". It was cut & replaced with a
>dialogue version because test audiences began to snicker. It
>will be on the DVD.

Good

>The following elements from the play were written out of the
>script and never shot:
>-Much of the sung dialogue, including the "show-biz" chorus.

that wouldve made the scene more haunting imo

>-Both "Press Conference" songs (I guess they thought they'd be

that was one of the best melody parts...tell us miss jones how does it feel..to be the lead of a hot new group todaaaay? *music buildup* Denna: wooooonderful, all i can say is wonderfuuuul *strings*

>"Love You I Do" was a good non-original tune and "Listen" too

"When I First Saw You" the 2nd "oh my" was not needed

>-Lorrell's "Ain't No Party" song (presumably because they
>couldn't "R&B" it up successfully)

Anika needed a song to shine but she repped her role too

  

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Operation Lifesaver
Member since Jan 31st 2005
281 posts
Thu Dec-14-06 11:45 AM

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21. "Eddie Murphy came with heat in this one"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------------

www.myspace.com/maddvillainy

  

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MrSpock
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Fri Dec-15-06 07:52 PM

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25. "RE: The Official PTP "Dreamgirls" Post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm going to be in Chicago when "Dreamgirls" comes out...my friends had damn well better come to this movie with me, or I'm revoking their gay *and* black cards. Seriously. I haven't been this geeked for a December release since "Return of the King."

==============================
"Ya know, making an engineer the commander of Pegasus is like giving the counselor of the Enterprise the helm. Only bad things can come of it."--nipsey, speaking truth about the late Cmdr. Gardner of the Battlestar Pegasus

  

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handle
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18948 posts
Sat Dec-16-06 05:40 AM

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26. "Conive me this movie doesn't/won't suck"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's supposed to be about The Supremes (except they say it's not) and they have schmaltzy-gay-white-men-penned-show-tunes instead of The Motown sound??

Seems like Rent to me. And Rent is crap.

I think Little Shop of horrors had more soul than what appears to be in this movie.

Can someone hip me to what I'm missing?

As it stands I'd rather see the Robert Guillaume version of The Phantom over this any-day.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sat Dec-16-06 06:04 AM

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27. "they've finally admitted it's loosley based upon the Supremes"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

it has show tunes instead of Motown songs because it was originally a Broadway play. Makes sense. They've actually "Motown-ized" a lot of the songs for the movie; the originals are much more Broadwayish.

Yes, the songs were written by white folks, but they don't suck.

I'll give you two good reasons to go see it: Jennifer Hudson and Eddie Murphy. Another is that it's a good film; one of the best Black musicals ever produced.

I haven't (and probably won't) seen "Rent", so I can't compare.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Sat Dec-16-06 10:05 AM

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28. "What if Mario Van Peebles had Directed "Dreamgirls"?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBLR-iomjXo

  

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YourUserName
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Sun Dec-24-06 08:39 PM

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38. "hahahaha"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

One of the girls is JD's black girlfriend from Season 4.

*shrugs*

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sat Dec-16-06 12:09 PM

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29. "Production notes (long)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

SYNOPSIS

In 1960s Detroit, a good night onstage can get you noticed but it won't get your song played on the radio. Here, a new kind of music is on the cusp of being born – a sound with roots buried deep in the soul of Detroit itself, where songs are about more than what's on the surface, and everyone is bound together by a shared dream.

Curtis Taylor, Jr. (Jamie Foxx) is a car salesman aching to make his mark in the music business – to form his own record label and get its sound heard on mainstream radio at a time when civil rights are still only a whisper in the streets. He just needs the angle, the right talent, the right product to sell.

Late for their stint in a local talent show, The Dreamettes – Deena Jones (Beyoncé Knowles), Lorrell Robinson (Anika Noni Rose), and lead singer Effie White (Jennifer Hudson) – show up in their cheap wigs and homemade dresses, rehearsing songs and steps by Effie's brother, C.C. (Keith Robinson), with hopes that talent and sheer desire will break them out of the only life that seems available to them.

They're young. They're beautiful. They're just what Curtis is looking for.

All they have to do is trust him.

James "Thunder" Early (Eddie Murphy) is a pioneer of the new Detroit sound, spellbinding audiences all along the "Chitlin' Circuit" with his electrifying blend of soul and rock 'n' roll. Curtis finesses The Dreamettes a gig singing backup for Early, and suddenly, for all of them, the gulf between what they want and what they can have draws closer for the first time.

Curtis launches the girls as a solo act, rechristening them The Dreams, knowing in his gut that success lies not with the soulful voice of Effie, but with the demure beauty and malleable style of Deena – despite their history…and Curtis' promises. Deena is ready to step into the spotlight, even as Effie fades away.

As a new musical age dawns, Curtis' driving ambition pushes this one-time family to the forefront of an industry in the throes of music revolution. But when the lights come up and the curtains part, they hardly recognize who they've become. Their dreams are finally there for the taking, but at a price that may be too heavy for their hearts to bear.

The groundbreaking Tony Award-winning Broadway phenomenon comes to life as an all-new motion picture adaptation written and directed by Academy Award®® winner Bill Condon. A Laurence Mark production presented by DreamWorks Pictures and Paramount Pictures, "Dreamgirls," is a compelling story of love and loyalty, fame and betrayal that tracks the struggle, sacrifices and triumphs of a group of outsiders carrying their landmark sound into mainstream America in the 1960s and '70s.

--© DreamWorks


PRODUCTION NOTES

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS DREAM:
BRINGING THE LEGEND TO LIFE

"I'm not the dream that you had before.
I'm the dream that will give you more and more."

"Dreamgirls" was an anomaly when it came to life on the Broadway stage in the early 1980s directed by Michael Bennett. While visually the play was unlike anything ever attempted on Broadway, it was the intense human drama and moving, show-stopping songs that redefined musical theater for the era. "There is something primal about musicals," says writer-director Bill Condon, who was galvanized as he sat in the back row with some friends on opening night. "They can get under your skin in a way that straight dramas can't. In "Dreamgirls," the emotions bleeding through the songs made it a profoundly affecting experience."

Tom Eyen and Henry Krieger's earthy fable about real emotions – love, ambition, anguish, passion – deeply resonated with a vast cross-section of people. "We all know what it's like to desperately want something we can't have," Condon continues. "We all know what it's like to be left behind. Or to sacrifice everything for something you think you want, only to realize too late what you've lost. Here, in these characters, was all the hope and anguish laid bare. It's what has stayed with me all these years later, and what I wanted to bring back to life in this film."

"The themes of this story seem to be even more relevant today than they were twenty-five years ago," notes producer Laurence Mark. "What are the gains and losses that accompany fame? What are the consequences if you don't compromise? What are the consequences if you do? Is talent something to be packaged and sold? And finally, in the quest to hang on to your dreams, how can you also hang on to yourself?"

The setting is the Motor City, where African-American music is on the verge of breaking down the doors of the mainstream American music scene. "This story takes place in the '60s and '70s, which was a period of vast social and political change," says Condon. "The characters in 'Dreamgirls' reflect that upheaval."

Not only was music in transition, but so was the country. "This film takes place in a very unique time in history, the beginning of the urbanization of music," adds cast member Danny Glover. "The rise of the Civil Rights movement was bringing segregation to its end. The focus was shifting to the urban centers in the country."

The story finds one man trying to break in at that precise moment. Jamie Foxx, who won the Academy Award® for his portrayal of Ray Charles in "Ray," in addition to being nominated for Best Supporting Actor for "Collateral," plays Curtis Taylor, Jr., a hungry young businessman who sells Cadillacs as a springboard to a bright future he feels destined for. "Curtis is a rough-edged kind of guy who is trying to get into the music business," says Foxx. "He just wishes that he could have sung better, could have written better music, could have played some type of instrument, but he can't. So, he does what he can to get to the top by managing talent. I think that comes with a curse for him – on some level, he wishes it was him out there. He's working every angle until he finds an opening."

With "girl groups" sprouting up from gospel choirs across the country, talent night at the local club proves to be a goldmine. "Curtis is everywhere, putting things together," says Condon. He finds his vehicle when he sets his eyes on The Dreamettes. "They are three hungry, excited, anxious, naïve girls," says Beyoncé Knowles. The Platinum-selling musical artist stars as Deena Jones, a role she was told at the tender age of 16 that she was born to play. "It's so exciting for them to be there because they want this so bad. They want to be in the music industry. Their futures are entirely in front of them, and they think they've got what it takes to make it. When Curtis sees them, he sees all that potential."

Beautiful but circumspect, Deena's soft voice belies her ambition and competitive nature. "She's the hustler," Knowles describes. "She wants to get them onstage. They're ready for this. It's what they've been rehearsing so hard for. Their whole lives have led up to this moment."

The group's lead singer, Effie White, is played by newcomer Jennifer Hudson. Not as refined as Deena and Lorrell, Effie is a young singer who, despite her immense talent, does not fit the mold of an up-and-coming star in the '60s. "Effie shows up in her fake leopard skin coat with her head held high," says Hudson. "She knows she's got the voice to be a great singer. But she's also heart-breakingly naïve. She has this swagger – surrounded by her girls, her friends and back-up singers. She's really not prepared for what's about to happen to them. None of them really are."

The filmmakers conducted a six-month search, seeing more than 780 women to find the right combination of strength, passion and vulnerability to embody the character that made a young gospel singer named Jennifer Holliday a household name in the 1980s. "We held open auditions in Chicago, Detroit, New York, Atlanta, St. Louis, and here in L.A.," recalls casting director Debra Zane. "The role of Effie is so important; she's basically the heart of the movie. It was critical that we find exactly the right person to play this role."

Out of all the talented young women who were called, "American Idol" finalist Hudson stood out. "I stood on the 'American Idol' stage and then was the one to leave," she says. "I was okay with it because I knew it wasn't my dream. I knew my dream was coming – and here it is. In a way, I'm like Effie – on that kind of rollercoaster and coming out of it with a deeper understanding of myself and my art."

Third in the group, singing back-up, is Lorrell Robinson, played by Tony Award-winning Broadway actress Anika Noni Rose. Rose sees her role as "the peacemaker in the group. When things go awry, she's the one who wants to pull it together and make it work, because these are her friends."

Lorrell is barely able to contain her excitement at their luck when Curtis puts The Dreamettes together with singing sensation and local celebrity James "Thunder" Early. "She is like a lamb to the slaughter," says Rose. "Here is this incredible man who to her is just the world's greatest superstar. Lorrell can't believe their luck."

Eddie Murphy, whose prodigious talent fueled his own meteoric rise on television in "Saturday Night Live" and films like "48 Hrs." and "Trading Places," plays James "Thunder" Early, a character Condon describes as "a force of nature. Nothing can hold him back when he's performing and that electric energy bleeds into his personal life."

For Murphy, Early represents the unique R&B spirit that was even then bleeding over into the consciousness of mainstream America. "Jimmy is perpetually on the edge of getting some national exposure, playing the cities," says Murphy. "Everyone loves him because he's really one of a kind. He just can't seem to break through, but he is an R&B originator, bringing the sound that white kids could dance to – like James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard. While the country was still segregated, they were bridging the world of music, bringing 'black' sound to 'white' America. It wasn't until later that these performers realized just how much they accomplished."

As they aggressively tour the "Chitlin' Circuit," Effie's brother C.C. (Keith Robinson) writes songs and choreographs moves for the parallel acts. C.C., though quiet, is the ideal conduit through which Curtis can craft the artists into a marketable commodity. "C.C. is a gifted artist in his own right but he doesn't have the confidence to express what's really in his heart," says Robinson. "Like everybody else in their little group, he puts his trust in Curtis. And through his songwriting, he becomes this instrument, a tool Curtis uses to take on the roadblocks he wants to break through."

"They're all coming up together and it's so exciting," says Rose. "There's this sense of camaraderie and shared desire. Everything is fun. Everything is an experiment. The stakes are high but it's all really in the abstract – they're still in their own little world. This is a time when no one has crossed over. So, they can afford to experiment."
The more they're together, the closer Effie and Curtis become. "Curtis is Effie's first love," says Condon. "Though gifted musically, she is still basically just a kid. Curtis is captivated by her sweet face and big voice. He's drawn to her talent."

When Curtis mixes with James "Thunder" Early, promising to break him out of the Chitlin' Circuit and into more uptown bookings, his longtime manager begins to see that the game has changed. Independent Spirit Award winner and acting legend Danny Glover plays Marty. Foxx enthuses, "Working alongside Danny, who is one of my heroes, is just incredible."
"Marty is an old school talent manager," describes Glover. "He discovered James when he was a kid, so he's like a father figure to him. But he's also that generation of talent agents who are on their way out. Marty has a real integrity, but he is not able to move up to another level. Curtis can see the transformation coming and asserts himself within that transformation. He takes the nurturing business relationship that James had with Marty, and turns it into a purely business relationship."

Unable to break through the payola-dominated landscape of mainstream radio, Curtis makes a play for breaking in on his own terms, rather than handing everything over to white artists and promoters. "Curtis is a guy with a vision that African-American music can cross over to a broader white audience," Condon explains. "And he'll do whatever it takes to get there."

Marty becomes the first casualty of Curtis's hunger to reach the next rung in the ladder, and ruthless methods for getting there. "What Marty sells is not disposable," comments Glover. "It's an essence of something. What Curtis wants to sell is a commodity, an object. It's the object he's trying to sell, not the person."

Curtis reinvents Early as a soft-toned crooner – not the carnal roadhouse lothario with the explosive voice – to play before society types in the Miami clubs. "But James 'Thunder' Early is too much a force of nature to fit into this box that Curtis wants him in," says Condon. "Curtis can't break down Jimmy's rough edges. He can't change who and what he is."

Condon saw Eddie Murphy as flamboyant R&B star James "Thunder" Early even as he was adapting the screenplay. "I had Eddie Murphy in mind to play James Early from the beginning," Condon remembers. "Fortunately, like me, Eddie had seen the original 'Dreamgirls' several times. And he loved the challenge of doing something that doesn't connect to anything he's done before."

"Eddie took the biggest risk," adds Mark, "and he really went for it, aiming for the rafters."

"Eddie's the type of guy that can really do it all," notes Foxx. "His acting, his stand-up. All that talent. Then, he comes in here and goes into his song and dance number, it's incredible. You know you're working with great talent." Adds Knowles, "Look out when Eddie Murphy takes the stage. He rocks in everything he does. The middle name in his character, 'Thunder,' really doesn't do justice to describing his energy and the effect he has on an audience."

Curtis next sets his sights on The Dreamettes and goes with his gut – Deena, the prettiest one, the one with the softest voice, is the way into the living rooms of mainstream America. Says Condon, "He will groom them into this very sedate and sophisticated girl group. He reinvents them as The Dreams…but that involves putting Effie in the background. It happens in the blink of an eye. And just like that, Effie's dreams are obliterated."

Condon rolled cameras on Effie's character-defining song, "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going," during the final four days of principal photography, which allowed Hudson to completely inhabit the character of Effie before immortalizing her watershed moment in the story. "Effie is shocked, and she feels betrayed," says Hudson. "'And I Am Telling You' is about her heart and soul being laid out on the line. She's rejected by her family. They have all traded her in for something else. But she will not go quietly."

"In 'And I Am Telling You,' Effie is plaintively and desperately addressing Curtis, her lover," says Condon. "What she's trying to make him hear is not just the words to the song, but her voice – which is really the essence of who she is. Everything about the song, including how it affects us, the audience, is an integral part of the experience of this story."

Effie acts out, showing up late for rehearsals, disrupting recording sessions, not letting them forget the pain she's in. What they call success to Effie looks like one long compromise. "So she goes home," says Condon, "back to Detroit. She goes through her own transformation, treading an unexpected path, and suddenly a greater clarity about who she is and what she wants reveals itself."

Curtis has already replaced her with a young singer who has gotten her foot in the door by taking a secretarial job at Curtis's Rainbow Records. "She's a quick replacement for Effie when Curtis finally decides to get rid of her," says Condon. Michelle, played by Sharon Leal, becomes the fourth Dream and soon falls for their underappreciated songwriter and choreographer, C.C. "Michelle is pursuing her own dreams," says Leal, "when she walks in on all this drama."

Deena has everything it takes to cross over, but the woman who turns everything she touches to gold, and the one she sees when she looks in the mirror, are no longer the same person. "Curtis is obsessed with Deena, in part because she is his creation," says Condon. "He sees her as an image that he's packaging to the world."

Curtis sees Deena "as a product, a can of Coke," says Foxx. "He's willing to do anything to keep the music marketable, as opposed to really finding out what her sensibilities and her emotions are all about. Success is an exercise in compromise."

Having grown up in a singing group before emerging into her own spotlight, "Beyoncé has lived some of Deena Jones's story already," says Condon. "She was born to play this role and understands it intuitively."

"It took a great deal of skill on Beyoncé's part for her to turn into Deena Jones," observes Mark, "for her not to pull focus in the first section of the movie and to be a singer very different from herself throughout."

To physically embody Deena's transformation, Knowles utilized only a percentage of her voice and downplayed her cover girl looks until the time came for Deena to step into the limelight. "Because Deena's performance style is so different from my style, I had to hold back, to remind myself, 'Don't sing it in full voice, sing it like Deena.' She is all about subtleties—she's very feminine and sexy, in a subtle, slightly mysterious way," observes Knowles.

"Later, you see her growth," says Condon. "You see that she's more than just a naïve girl from Detroit. When she gets onstage, something very sexy happens. "People are going to be very shocked," adds Beyoncé, "because I know they might be expecting 'Beyoncé,' but Beyoncé is nowhere in this movie."

Deena's star rises because Curtis' instincts are right on target. "The thing about Curtis is that he's almost always right about things," says Condon. "And what he wants to do -- break through racial barriers to get black talent heard and seen – is heroic. But the more successful he becomes, the more brutal he is in his disregard for the dreams of the people around him.

"Curtis is someone who is addicted to dreams," Condon continues. "As soon as he accomplishes one thing, he's on to the next."

"When people think of dreams," says Beyoncé Knowles, "they only think of beautiful, shiny things. They don't think about sacrifice and the price you pay to gain success and accomplish those dreams. There are so many complicated things that come along in life. And we touch on all of those things. But, ultimately, it's about getting those dreams…and for many of us, making 'Dreamgirls' was a dream."

Condon infused the cast with two vital performers who appeared in the Broadway play a quarter century ago. Hinton Battle played James "Thunder" Early in the production as a summer replacement, taking over the role from its originator. "'Dreamgirls' is special because it is truth; it is reality," says Battle. "It really tells the story of how things were, the struggle of the record industry, with payola and how white recording artists were taking songs from black artists and making them hits. Ultimately, though, it's a story of passion and love and all the great things we yearn for. The film has an ability to reflect on the past, but also comment on the future by dealing with where African-American music is in today's culture. That's what makes it even more relevant today."

In another nod to the original Broadway production, Loretta Devine—who originated the stage role of Lorrell—appears in the film as a jazz diva. "At the time when we were doing 'Dreamgirls' onstage, we had no idea what we were creating and how important it would be 25 years later," muses Devine, who feels Condon's expanded storytelling will bring in a whole new audience. "The music is like opera. People respond to it because it's fabulous—it's beautiful; it's fashion; it's passion; it's talent; it's heart. And it has this great story, about love and about sisterhood."

LISTEN:
WRITER-DIRECTOR BILL CONDON
ADAPTS THE BOOK

"You don't know what I'm feeling.
I'm more than what you made of me.
I followed the voice you gave to me.
But now I've gotta find my own.
You should have listened."

The original Broadway production of "Dreamgirls" was "one of those experiences you never forget," Bill Condon remembers. "It was thrilling, with a brilliant cast and legendary staging by Michael Bennett. With the passage of time, I think it's possible to take a fresh look at this material. The story of the crossover success of African-American music during the 1960s resonates more than ever today, when African-American culture almost defines the mainstream."

"'Dreamgirls' came along when music was changing, when the industry began to recognize 'urban' influences," adds cast member Eddie Murphy. "Whatever they wanted to call it, it was the same thing – the R&B, rock roots dug by black artists, that is now the sound of the times. And here was this story about this group that rode their sound into mainstream pop America."

"I saw Bennett's production of 'Dreamgirls' shortly after it opened, and it was an extraordinary, unforgettable experience," says Laurence Mark. "The look of that show and the music of that show have stayed with me all these years."

To transform the book – a written version of a musical play – into a screenplay, Condon wanted to hew as closely as possible to the original material, which cast such a powerful spell on audiences of all ages, from all walks of life, during its original run. For decades, the rights to this property have been closely guarded by one of the stage production's producers, industry legend and DreamWorks founding principal David Geffen.

When Mark first called Geffen, who is a longtime friend, to suggest that Bill Condon would be the ideal choice to write and to direct "Dreamgirls," the producer recalls, "David spent about fifteen minutes telling me very nicely that this movie would never happen because it was just too much of a risk to take. If it didn't work, he would feel responsible for tarnishing the legend of the show as well as the great legacy of Michael Bennett.

"I told him I completely understood and respected his position," Mark continues. "Still, I urged him to let me know if he ever wanted to hear Bill's ideas for the movie. After a beat, David invited us to lunch the next day.

"Sometime between the entrée and the dessert, Bill got to talk about what his approach to the movie would be - after which David immediately said, 'Well, it sounds like we should give this a shot.'"

The writer-director was heavily involved in pre-production on his acclaimed exploration of sexuality pioneer "Kinsey" at the time, but eighteen months later, Condon's first draft of the screenplay came in, Geffen was keen to move forward..

"David had been protective of this project for so long, and we were honored by his willingness to trust us with it," says Mark. "I think Bill has this movie in his DNA—one of the reasons he was put on this earth was to make it."

Geffen proved to be an invaluable resource to the writer-director. "David has these great stories about the evolution of the Broadway production, including the pre-Broadway tryouts of the show in Boston," Condon says. "When you see a show as an outsider, you might not be aware of the original intentions of the creators—and we took great care to be true to Bennett's legacy. He played a key role in not only the Broadway show, but also our screen version."


WHEN I FIRST SAW YOU:
SINGING AND DANCING IN "DREAMGIRLS"

"When I first saw you
I said 'Oh my. Oh my, that's my dream, that's my dream.'
I needed a dream to make me strong.
You were the only reason
I had to go on."

Despite the enormous effect the original Broadway production had on Condon, for the film, he wanted to both honor the R&B sound of the '60s and '70s while infusing the music itself with contemporary flavor. "Bill utilizes the drama of the piece as a catalyst for the music and singing," says Jamie Foxx. "There's a reason to it all, because the emotional truth of the piece takes you in that direction. Right after 'It's All Over,' BOOM, you're hit with Effie's 'And I Am Telling You.' It's not just singing for singing's sake. It's storytelling at its most raw and emotional."

In the film, as in the play before it, there are book songs and performance numbers. Though performances may often express commentary on story points or the emotions of the characters, book songs move the story forward. Music is ingrained in the characters' souls and is a powerful mode of expression for all of them. "The characters in this story relate to and through music," says Condon.

Mark says, "Because of the nature of the story, almost every number is sung either in performance or on or near a stage."

Though Condon already had a trove of powerful songs to utilize, he nonetheless sought to create new songs for the film. He turned to Henry Krieger, who wrote the original music for the Broadway musical (which yielded him a Tony nomination for Best Score and a Grammy Award for Best Broadway album).

Krieger collaborated on four new songs for the "Dreamgirls" soundtrack:

"Love You I Do" – Effie's breezy love song to Curtis (performed by Jennifer Hudson);

"Listen" – a passionate song sung by Deena, who transforms from Curtis's product into an independent woman as she sings it (performed by Beyonce Knowles);

"Patience" – a song C.C. writes for James "Thunder" Early to signal his budding awareness of social change, (performed by Eddie Murphy, Keith Robinson and Anika Noni Rose); and

"Perfect World" – an upbeat confection from Teddy Campbell, a child musical sensation rising alongside The Dreams.

"Twenty-five years later, I'm getting to relive the dream," says Krieger. "The show has been very faithfully kept intact and yet given its own vibration, for which I give all credit to Bill Condon's amazing screenwriting and direction, along with the collaborators who worked with the orchestrations from the original show by Harold Wheeler. It all comes out as being very organic to the piece. I love it."

Krieger co-wrote "Listen" with Knowles and other talented lyricists. The song expresses for the first time Deena's inner journey. "It's an actor's dream to have a moment in a movie like that – to have a song like that to act," says Knowles. "It says everything that Deena needs to say, words and emotions that any woman can relate to. It was amazing working with Henry—20 years after the original, to still write something so wonderful is incredible. I hope 20 years from now, I can still write songs like 'Listen.'"

Condon brought in music supervisors Randy Spendlove & Matt Sullivan, along with cutting edge R&B producers The Underdogs (aka Harvey Mason, Jr. and Damon Thomas). Says Sullivan, "We stayed faithful to the original score as much as we could while updating it. Every note that Henry took down in that score was for a reason. Every chord strikes an emotion, and he knows what that emotion is. Musically, we tried to stay true to his original intent."

This unique group of collaborators spans various industries, movements and sounds, but all came together to aid Condon and the cast in creating the film's unique sound. They worked with the cast for roughly four weeks of rehearsal, which was followed by four weeks of pre-recording the entire musical. During this time all saw firsthand the profound gifts of the film's performers. Matt Sullivan notes, "Eddie Murphy came in as Eddie, and you could just watch him go right into James 'Thunder' Early, right in front of your face. Pow! And this voice would come out, which was not Eddie Murphy, but this great character that he had developed."

"Hearing Beyoncé bring Deena Jones to life was just as amazing," continues the music supervisor. "It's not Beyoncé, but Deena, whose voice is not nearly as strong. She pulled back effortlessly as part of her work on the character. And Jamie is such an amazing actor with an amazing voice. The tone and feeling in his voice—that can't be faked. He brought it all into the song and blew us away within five minutes."

Krieger notes that the film offers different interpretations of the original material as performed and recorded more than two decades ago, including the emotional show-stopper that brought the house down, "And I Am Telling You." "Jennifer Holliday and Jennifer Hudson bring very different things to 'And I Am Telling You,'" comments Krieger. "What Ms. Hudson does in a very vulnerable way isn't what Ms. Holliday did, and what Ms. Holliday can do in a huge, brassy way is not necessarily the same quiver of arrows that Ms. Hudson uses. Yet both bring wonderful qualities to this property. Each cast—the Broadway and the film—bring their own artistry to the material, and both are valid in their versions."

"To meet the man who wrote all of these songs that live so deep inside of people's hearts was incredible for me," comments Hudson. "It was coming in contact with history. He was sitting there, telling the story about playing the piano for Jennifer Holliday and we're working on the song. You can't put a price on that."

To bring a breath of contemporary movement to the trademark moves of the era depicted in 'Dreamgirls,' Condon needed a choreographer who would not be too firmly grounded in one style but could move and blend freely. "We talked to Broadway choreographers and classical choreographers, looking for someone who could reference the period and the original production, but also make it contemporary," Condon recalls. "The trick of the movie is that while everything is done in a period style, we want it to feel of the moment."

Fatima Robinson, who emerged from the world of hip hop, has choreographed for such acts as Outkast, Black Eyed Peas, Will Smith, Jessica Simpson, No Doubt and Prince. "Her spectacular work walks a fine line between staying true to the period and making the movement pop for today," says Condon.

"Fatima incorporates several influences into the dance numbers – Gospel, Jazz, Blues, Rock," says producer Mark. "She has pulled out all the dance stops."

Robinson choreographed Curtis's song, "Steppin' to the Bad Side," for her audition, outfitting her dancers with tambourines and church fans. "Henry said that when he saw my presentation, he felt that finally someone got the Gospel in the song that no one had ever really picked up on before," Robinson notes.

"I loved the choreography for 'One Night Only,'" comments Beyoncé Knowles. "It was so fun. It felt like something they would have been doing at Studio 54. I still have glitter in my house from that number!"

Knowles, who once worked with Robinson as a teenager, notes that the choreographer is "always doing something new. She's very knowledgeable about the '60s and '70s—we watched a lot of old Motown performances, which was helpful. And Fatima was great at making each dance number distinctive and different, which had to be difficult."

Robinson investigated dance footage and tapes of performers such as Jackie Wilson, Sam Cooke and James Brown, and incorporated some of the "vintage" steps fused with her own modern choreography, to "put a little extra flavor on it, keeping it still true to the time but also making it timeless," she describes.

Eddie Murphy came to the table with his own array of moves gleaned from watching hours of performances of the men who, like James "Thunder" Early, brought a degree of sexuality to the vanilla '50s and '60s. "We shot some footage of Eddie, and then worked on certain things that he could do along with the girls," Robinson describes, "moves they could do together, and built on that."

The performers in "Dreamgirls" brought every ounce of their passion to the fore as they shot the sequences in which they performed these memorable songs. Though the powerful pre-recorded vocal tracks were played back at full volume during filming, every live singing voice could still clearly be heard over the playback blaring from the onstage monitors. "There isn't a person young or old who doesn't connect in some way to this music," says Spendlove..

CADILLAC CAR:
PRODUCTION DESIGNER JOHN MYHRE
CRAFTS A 'DREAMGIRLS' UNIVERSE

"Don't care where I'm bound.
Got these four wheels
Spinnin' round.
Me and my two-toned Caddy
Gonna blow this town."

From the beginning, Condon's vision for "Dreamgirls" was a fully realized, grittily real world in which the fable – so infused with the stuff of dreams – could unfold.

"Dreamgirls" was shot on location in and around Los Angeles, in venues including the early vaudevillian Palace Theatre and the Orpheum Theatre and Pasadena's historic Ambassador Auditorium. Filming also took place in the downtown Los Angeles Alexandria Hotel, where location scouts uncovered ornate columns and plasterwork that proved ideal for the '60s-era theaters featured in the film. "'Dreamgirls' brings us to a time that signaled massive changes in our music, our culture and our society," says Myhre. "It's an exciting time to re-create and a wonderful show to reinvent for the screen. The 1960s was also such a great era for design. I thought it would be fun if we could find some of the sense of theatrics in real-world settings."

In the Palace Theatre, where the balconies are set against the walls prohibitively far from the stage, Myhre had box seats built around the stage to bring the audience closer to the action. Condon, director of photography Tobias Schliessler and the camera crew were therefore able to capture the reactions of the crowds watching the performers.

The Palace itself also yielded a set piece that provided them with a key component in the introduction of James "Thunder" Early – a manually operated lift for transporting props from storage below up to the stage. The special effects team fitted the lift with a motor and allowed Early to rise as if by magic before the star-struck Dreamettes for the first time.

Condon structured the film to be book-ended by two important performances, both taking place at the Detroit Theatre – the talent competition that brings the core characters together for the first time, and the farewell concert of Deena Jones and The Dreams. For both shows, the Palace Theatre stood in for the Detroit Theatre. "We chose not to fix it up," says Myhre. "The idea is that they could have chosen to do their Farewell Concert at any huge venue in the world. We thought it would be nice if they decided, 'Hey, it's our final show. Let's do it where we started.' It was nice for the movie to end up at the same place."

Production constructed sets recreating Miami's opulent Crystal Room and Caesar's Palace on the soundstages of the Los Angeles Center Studios. "It's an escalation of riches, so to speak," says executive producer Patricia Whitcher, "in terms of the types of audiences that they perform for and the venues they perform in."

A key set in the production is Curtis' Cadillac dealership, which then transforms into his offices and recording studios. "Curtis made money as a car dealer before turning record producer," says Myhre. "Dealerships of the period were so theatrical in and of themselves, they lent themselves perfectly to the musical aspects of the film."

Finding the right period setting for the showroom in contemporary Los Angeles was a challenge Myhre relished. "We drove up and down virtually every business street in town where there still exist brick buildings and lovely old architecture, and an absence of palm trees," he says: "We found a vacant lot that had a brick building on one side of it, and the real wonder was across the street – a beautiful brick church."

Myhre and Condon both sensed the presence of a church so close to the birthplace of this music was absolutely truthful to the world they wanted to bring to life. "When we looked at the church, I could just hear Gospel music coming out of it," Myhre recalls. "I thought, 'Wow, what a great way to ground the set we're going to build.'"

It took roughly thirty craftsmen two months to construct Curtis' dealership on this lot; the space was later quickly redressed to become the original offices of Curtis' company, Rainbow Records. To shoot later sequences as Rainbow evolves, production relocated the company to the venerated Los Angeles Times' building, with its beautiful wood walls, huge panes of glass and massive stone floors.

"These settings tell us something about the characters associated with that place," explains Myhre. "Curtis moves his cars away and their space is gradually taken up with recording equipment. The dealership is transformed into the Detroit offices of Rainbow Records. Then, when the offices are moved to Los Angeles, when Curtis and Rainbow are at the height of success, these offices are representative of what Curtis has become. It's a big, strong, masculine space that the other characters have to relate to. The building is almost him. It's the same with his house."

The finely designed contemporary home that represents the great success Curtis achieves with Deena's career was embodied by the famed Sinatra House in Chatsworth, California, which Myhre's team dressed with vintage finds from the early 1970s. The predominantly glass structure was owned by Frank Sinatra and Lucille Ball at certain points in its storied history.

"This superlative team of committed artists and designers was able to conjure the transitional world of 'Dreamgirls' – from its Detroit beginnings in the early '60s to New York, Miami, and California, spanning two decades of cultural change. Working from well-chosen locations and beautiful, wholly created sets, they synthesized everything into a period-inspired place unique to this musical," observes Condon.


I AM CHANGING:
THE LIGHT AND COLOR OF AN ERA
THROUGH TOBIAS SCHLIESSLER'S LENS

"I am changing.
Seeing everything so clear.
I am changing.
I'm gonna start right now right here."

Bil Condon wanted to tell the story of "Dreamgirls" through a palpably real lens, with all the imperfections intact. Therefore, director of photography Tobias Schliessler's cinéma vérité-infused style carried over from the football epic "Friday Night Lights" brought precisely the kind of grit he wanted. "We were going for an urban, gritty look," describes producer Mark. "Everything in this film, in a way, is choreographed. A musical, particularly this one, is about movement – not just of bodies, but of cameras, lights, sets, even storylines and character trajectories. The camera has its own moves, Tobias' cinematography has its own music."

"I was excited by the visual possibilities of this film," says Schliessler. "The realism leapt out at me when I first read the script. I hadn't even thought of it as a musical during that first read. I saw indications that the characters were singing, but it read to me that it was just dialog between characters. So, we wanted to keep it as real as possible, but still include the magic of a musical."

The department heads all collaborated closely with Condon on representing the arc of fame, and the level of success attained by the core group of people in the film, for his part, Schliessler set out to let the raw feeling in the beginning of the film to give way to more stylization as the story progresses. When the group transforms – as Effie is cast out, replaced by Michelle – a schism occurs in the look of the film between the two parallel stories. "The break between Effie and The Dreams breaks the photographic style as well," explains Schliessler. "In general, earthy colors for Detroit in the '60s and '70s, and pastel colors for '70s California."

There was also the added challenge of creating naturalistic bridges between the gritty real world cinematography and the stylized musical sequences. "The camera should move naturally without being too obvious, but you have to let the audience know, through camera work and elsewhere, that they are also in a different world," Schliessler explains.

To map out the camerawork for the musical numbers in particular, Condon and Schliessler took advantage of the breakthrough previsualization ("pre-viz") process commonly used in films with heavy visual effects components. They executed rehearsal runs with three video cameras to predict how a number would play out with motion picture cameras rolling and fine-tuned the results. Storyboards were then incorporated into the live-action foortage, along with sections of dialog in voiceover , giving Condon and his team a head start in not only shooting but editing complete sequences.

"This pre-production exercise provided all of us with a better understanding how to transition in and out of musical numbers," says Editor Virginia Katz. "We were able to see where the greatest challenges are and were also inspired to see how a given sequence would ultimately manifest itself."

LOVE YOU I DO:
THEATRICAL LIGHTING BY JULES FISHER & PEGGY EISENHAUER

"Never ever felt quite like this
Good about myself from our very first kiss.
I'm here when you call.
You've got it all
And confidence like I never knew."

As a counterpoint to the realistic approach taken with live action sequences for the musical numbers, Condon wanted to bring back all the glamour and fireworks that galvanized the original production. Only one team could achieve that level of perfection in terms of the lighting design – Jules Fisher and Peggy Eisenhauer. "'Dreamgirls' has a show-within-a-show aspect to it, and authentic theatrical lighting was essential to the look of the numbers," says Mark.

"We were so lucky on 'Dreamgirls' to have the best theatrical lighting team in the world," says production designer Myhre. "It was an honor to collaborate with Jules and Peggy."

Tony-winning theatrical lighting designers Fisher and Eisenhauer worked in tandem with Schliessler and his team to seamlessly integrate the styles of the performances with the off-stage sequences. A close collaboration was required, in order to keep their lights in sync with his cameras. In a theater, an audience member only has one point-of-view, whereas the motion picture camera has a transitional, moveable point-of-view. "In theater, we do things to change the audience's perspective by moving light around, adjusting levels," says Fisher. "In film, we have the added element of the motion of the camera to consider."

"Since theatrical lighting is designed to be viewed from only one direction and with the naked eye, it doesn't necessarily translate into motion picture lighting," explains Schliessler. "In the disco, we basically had 200 lights burning right into the camera…and if they're too bright and too close, they burn out. Our natural eye is more tolerant of extreme lighting levels than we can record on film. So I told Jules, 'I have to bring these levels down a little bit,' and in time they completely got it. It was a learning curve for all of us and ended up being a great collaborative experience."

Fisher elaborates, "Lighting for the stage is totally to please the eye. For film, we have to adjust it so that the emulsions of the film capture what the eye sees, and they're very different responses."

Though they let their imaginations run wild, the team also became guardians of accuracy and verisimilitude in creating sequences for the eras in which they're set. "As lighting designers," says Eisenhauer, "we are very concerned with maintaining the feeling of period, to make sure nothing is out of context or anachronistic."

And to also keep the story grounded in its musical roots. "Part of our design process is to choreograph the motion of light to match the music," explains Fisher. "Not only to match it from a rhythmic standpoint, but from an emotional standpoint as well. Lighting changes themselves are musical. If there is a percussive beat, the light changes on that beat; if there is a swell of violins, it can change over time with the swell. It's a way for the musical and visual elements to become seamlessly intertwined."

When Myhre created a disco inside Los Angeles' Tower Theatre, where The Dreams perform their version of "One Night Only," it became the ideal arena for Fisher & Eisenhauer to bring their immense stage lighting acumen to the production – Fisher had designed the lighting for New York's famed party palace, Studio 54.

"One Night Only" utilized more than 200 lighting instruments. "The sequence is reminiscent of those glorious '70s disco days," says Mark. "Jules had created the lighting towers and those lights that descended while people danced at Studio 54, which was an old theater that had been turned into a club. So we had him help turn the beautiful Tower Theatre into a disco."

For the song "Dreamgirls," which represents The Dreams'triumphant attainment of mainstream success, Condon and Myhre worked with the lighting team to create a sense of the group taking over the world. "We embedded light bulbs into our blue-sequined drape surrounding them," describes Myhre. "And when they sing, 'All you have to do is dream,' some of the lights appear. It gives the effect of a star field. Then, on another line, more lights appear, and you realize they're surrounded by lights – not just embedded in the drapes and walls; they're hanging everywhere. Then we lower the front-lighting on the drape so it vanishes behind the stars and Tobias' beautiful camera work swirls around and it feels like they're floating through the universe."

JIMMY'S RAP:
COSTUMES, MAKEUP AND HAIR

"Got a home in the hills, Mercedes-Benz,
Hot swimming pool, Got lots of friends.
Got clothes by the acre, Credit to spare.
I could wake up tomorrow
And find nobody there."

Oscar-nominated costumer Sharen Davis's challenge was to produce clothes that would evoke a sense of period but not exist merely as reproductions of the clothing of the '60s and '70s eras. "This was a revolutionary time in fashion and creating the costumes for 'Dreamgirls' let me run the gamut from what was happening on the street to the ultimate in glamour for the concert stage," she says. "The cast had as much fun wearing the costumes as I did designing them."

Davis holds the unique qualification for her participation in the film of chasing the dream of pop glory as a former member of a "girl group" herself. "I had a short history as a background vocalist, and I remember what I used to wear," she explains. "I was a theater major at the time, so I was working during the day on theatrical costumes and, at night, I was 'ooh-ing' and 'aah-ing' behind somebody. And when I went to interview with Bill, I said, 'As someone who used to do this, I'm just so excited to do the costumes for these girls!'"

As the life trajectories of the core characters in "Dreamgirls" evolve, so do the clothes – starting out as rough, raw and unpolished, "unproduced." As Curtis works his crossover magic on the group, that roughness becomes polished, refined and homogenized.

Creating the wardrobe for the film – which spans thirteen years in the lives of the characters – was a collaborative process with the film's other artisans. Color palettes of the costume designs were closely coordinated with the looks and colors of the sets, the lights, every aspect of physical production.

Davis describes the groups of the '60s as being as much about looks as sound. In their pre-fame looks, the The Dreamettes'dresses are homemade and somewhat homely, but fun and bright and able to move with the choreography. Once they are "on their way" – and held on an increasingly tight leash by Curtis – the freeness of the cuts vanishes, replaced with constricting tour outfits. But, at the same time, The Dreams also become the embodiment of heightened glamour.

Likewise, their makeup and styling – by makeup supervisor Shutchai Tym Buacharern and hair supervisor Camille Friend – transform as well. "When the girls first start they are plain and very simple," says Buacharern. "They're like girls from the 'hood who might pick up a magazine but can't afford to go buy the major brands. So they're drugstore products. Then, they become more and more groomed and refined."

"In the beginning, they start on the Chitlin' Circuit and they're very young," notes Camille Friend. "They would have to have very inexpensive wigs in those lean, early years. Deena even comes up with the idea to turn their wigs around to distinguish themselves, because they just know the cheapness of their wigs is obvious to their competition. I was in the wig store for about two hours just turning wigs around on my head to see how this would work."

Later, however, the young women grow into their glamour. "When we performed 'Dreamgirls' at the Miami Crystal Room, it was a two-and-one-half hour makeup and hair process before filming," recalls Knowles. "This is the point where Deena steps up and becomes the lead. She is making the transformation of her life – from Deena the singer into Deena the superstar. So, it was fitting that that number was blown out with these sexy, heavy dresses – corseted at the top and bustiers, the biggest hair in my life, and the bluest eye shadow I've ever seen!"

From wardrobe to makeup, hair and wigs, all of the key artisans sought to painstakingly plot the arc of each principal cast member to make certain the evolution of the looks reflected their progression. "The character's clothes tell the wearer's story," says Sharen Davis. "Deena goes from looking 16 to becoming this incredible diva, but her ladylike personality shows in her feminine choices from the start – dresses, never pants. Her look is sometimes childlike. Then, the childishness is banished and replaced with controlled sophistication while she's laboring under Curtis' detail-oriented eye. When she begins to come into her own, the clothes begin to relax. The colors and cut of her clothes explode into a burst of freeing, independent-feeling, color-saturated looks."

Friend referenced the hairstyles of the girl groups of the era, like The Supremes and The Marvelettes, and for the men people like Berry Gordy and James Brown. "Our wigmaker, Bob Krishner, made over twenty custom wigs for this movie," says Friend.

Effie, says Davis, starts her journey as "a diva with no money. This diva-in-the-making thinks she is the hottest thing, and her coat, which is a fake, is her signature. Then, when she becomes an ex-singer on welfare, those animal prints fall away, replaced with a palette of earthy, dark metals."

Likewise, her hair evolves as well. "Effie goes the opposite way from the other characters, her former group mates," says Friend. "In the '70s, we totally stripped her down of all her beauty, all her money, and she has totally turned against the glamour. She goes into a much more natural style. We took her wig off and used her natural hair. It made her very vulnerable, which really worked for the character."

In her final performance in the film, Effie's outfit unabashedly recalls two sirens of the 1940s – Billie Holiday and Mae West. Davis also referenced the Queen of Soul, Aretha Franklin, as the inspiration for much of Effie's clothing choices.

For the Deena and The Dreams farewell concert, Davis supervised the fabrication of 15-pound dresses that incorporated various fabrics and materials, including chainmail formed from platinum sequins. The gowns sported in the Crystal Room concert were boned so heavily that the performers' movements were restricted. "Beyonce said it forced her into a position of such uprightness that it gave her absolute confidence in what she was doing as a performer," says Davis, "while Jennifer said it made her feel like a Barbie, and made her stand up straight, which she didn't like to do!"

All in all, Davis completed full designs for more than 120 looks for the women in the film, executing around 100 of them. Her research incorporated not only archival photography of the era but also the high fashion of the time to see what stars like The Dreams would have been wearing. "I looked at magazines like Ebony and Life, and footage from the Motown era, like appearances on 'American Bandstand,'" she says.

She also referenced the original Broadway costumes of Theoni V. Aldridge. "I know that the dresses they wore weighed a lot, and the look – with a 'bottomless train,' where you don't see the women's feet – made it seem like they were floating," Davis describes. "I use that look as well, as my way of paying homage to her and her work."

For the male costumes, Davis referenced such performers as James Brown, Jackie Wilson and Prince, but incorporated more modern fabrics that would allow the actors to move more freely and provide a more contemporary look.

"Jamie is a fashion plate," Davis describes. "He looks great in anything." The rich colors of Curtis' earlier hope and ambition are eventually replaced with a colder, harder sense of the "business" of entertainment. "His jewel tones give way in the '70s to a lot of black, clean lines, like what Donald Trump might wear."

Eddie Murphy as James "Thunder" Early would likewise recall the R&B greats while not being strictly period. "Eddie's character was a lot of fun," says Friend. "He is an R&B superstar, so we wanted to give him that look. I looked at different pictures of The Four Tops, The Temptations, and they all had beautiful pompadours. So we wanted to give him that look."

The '60s and '70s were a time of quickly changing looks and hairstyles, for men and women alike. "At one point, I wear this medium-sized Afro," says Foxx. "And I've always said, 'Never trust anybody in a medium-sized Afro.' I called it 'The Mean Wig.' You put it on, and automatically, you feel the character. That was part of Curtis, that wig."

AND I AM TELLING YOU I'M NOT GOING:
THE LEGACY OF "DREAMGIRLS"

"There's no way I can ever go.
No no there's no way
I'm living without you.
I'm not living without you.
I don't want to be free."

The music of the '60s and early '70s gave voice to a society in the throes of a revolution. When the sound of Motown began its saturation of the airwaves, it became the soundtrack for the Civil Rights movement breaking its way through the sheen of superficial Americana.

Berry Gordy, Jr., a professional boxer and veteran of the Korean War, couldn't sing but he could play a little piano, had a great ear, and knew how to write a song. In the 1950s, he met an ambitious teenager named William "Smokey" Robinson. With Gordy producing and Robinson writing and singing, they recorded the single "Got a Job" (an answer to the Silhouettes hit, "Get a Job") for New York–based End records. The song rose to No. 1 on the R&B charts, but when Gordy received a royalty check for $3.19, he realized he was on the wrong side of the music business. In 1959, he created Motown Records with an $800 loan from his family. Smokey Robinson became vice president of the label. Gordy purchased a two-story house on West Grand Boulevard in Detroit and converted the garage and basement into the primitive Hitsville U.S.A. recording studio.

Gordy fastidiously scrutinized every new act he signed for wardrobe, makeup, wigs, choreography, and grooming – no detail escaped him. Echoing Gordy's philosophy, the company's first hit was Barrett Strong's "Money (That's What I Want)," followed by the Miracles' "Shop Around." A year later, the Marvelettes scored the label's first No. 1 pop hit with "Please Mr. Postman."

Florence Ballard, Mary Wilson, and Diana Ross were girls from the Brewster Projects in Detroit, barely out of high school when Gordy signed them in 1961. Overnight, the former Primettes (originally a quartet) became the Supremes. In 1964, "Where Did Our Love Go" became their first No. 1 smash, followed by eleven more No. 1 hits over the next five years. They performed on "American Bandstand" and "The Ed Sullivan Show," and became an international sensation.

Berry Gordy's gamble birthed 110 Top 10 hits between 1961 and 1971, from such icons as Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, the Temptations, Mary Wells, Gladys Knight and the Pips, the Four Tops, and the Jackson Five. These artists and Gordy created the historic Motown Sound, a sound that defined an era and broke musical, racial, social, and national barriers. They charted the course of popular music and paved the way for future black artists to find success with mainstream audiences around the world.

"I remember being eight-years-old and begging my father to take my sisters and me to the Brooklyn Paramount theater to see Diana Ross and the Supremes," remembers Condon. "I was obsessed with them and other Motown groups at a very young age. I heard all of this amazing music in the context of the time – this famous march in Detroit led by Marin Luther King, Jr., and the Civil Rights movement, particularly a speech in 1963. All of this history gives a scale and context for the story of 'Dreamgirls.' While ostensibly it's about the music and the rise of this group, just beneath the surface it tells a very personal story of the struggle African-Americans faced in seeking an end to the kind of accepted bigotry of the era."

"Dreamgirls" began life as a musical called "Big Dreams," written by Tom Eyen and Henry Krieger. The show was workshopped for Joseph Papp at the Public Theatre, with Nell Carter singing the role of Effie White. When Carter left to take the lead in the hit sitcom "Gimme A Break," the project was shelved.

One year later, Eyen and Krieger brought ten songs from the workshop to producer Bob Avian and Michael Bennett, the director/choreographer whose status as a Broadway sensation had already been cemented by his magnum opus, "A Chorus Line," which had earned him the Pulitzer Prize, two Tony Awards, and two Drama Desk Awards. Krieger played the piano and sang the men's parts, and two performers from the workshop – Sheryl Lee Ralph and Loretta Devine – sang the women's parts.

Bennett and Avian took the project on. Michael Peters was hired as co-choreographer, and the musical went through four workshops and numerous rewrites over the next eighteen months. David Geffen and the Shubert Organization joined Bennett and Avian as producers.

Jennifer Holliday, who would make Broadway history as Effie, was hired by Bennett when he realized that no one else could sing the showstopper "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" as well as she could. Shortly before the premiere, the title was changed to "Dreamgirls."

On December 20, 1981, "Dreamgirls" opened at the Imperial Theatre. The opening night cast included Holliday, Ralph, Devine, Ben Harney, Cleavant Derricks, and Obba Babatundé.

Bennett's stature made it one of the most highly anticipated shows of the season, and it did not disappoint. "Dreamgirls" was an instant smash, earning acclaim from critics and nightly standing ovations from sold-out audiences. Venerated New York Times critic Frank Rich declared it "Broadway history…beautiful and heartbreaking…a show that strikes with the speed and heat of lightning," and Newsweek's Jack Kroll called it "stunning and stirring."

In 1982, "Dreamgirls" was honored with a remarkable thirteen Tony Award nominations, including Best Musical and Best Original Score. The show won six Tonys: Best Book of a Musical – Tom Eyen; Outstanding Actor in a Musical – Ben Harney; Outstanding Actress in a Musical – Jennifer Holliday; Outstanding Featured Actor in a Musical – Cleavant Derricks; Outstanding Lighting Design – Tharon Musser; and Outstanding Choreography – Michael Bennett & Michael Peters. "Dreamgirls" was also nominated for ten Drama Desk Awards, and won three.

Bennett's Tony Award for his choreography would be his seventh and final honor from the American Theatre Wing; "Dreamgirls" was his final production before he succumbed to complications from AIDS on July 2, 1987. He was forty-four years old.

"Dreamgirls" ran on Broadway for nearly four years, thrilling audiences for 1,521 performances, before touring the United States and traveling to Paris and Japan. Productions have since been staged as far away as Berlin and Malaysia.

Now, twenty-five years after first bringing audiences to their feet, "Dreamgirls" finally arrives on the silver screen.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sat Dec-16-06 12:25 PM

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30. "Uhm, I should note that the "Legacy" section of these production"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

notes is cribbed straight from my Wikipedia articles on Motown and The Supremes.

David Geffen owes me a muthafuckin' check!

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Dec-18-06 11:36 PM

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31. ""Dreamgirls" Breaks Record in Opening Weekend"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

By Andrew Gans
18 Dec 2006

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/104296.html

Although it only opened in three theatres Dec. 15 — playing roadshow screenings at Manhattan's Ziegfeld Theatre, Hollywood's Cinerama Dome and San Francisco's Metreon — the new DreamWorks/Paramount film "Dreamgirls" has already broken a box-office record.

The New York Post reports that the film brought in an estimated $360,000, averaging $120,000 per theatre. That number is the highest per-screen opening ever for a movie musical. "Dreamgirls" is currently playing ten days at the three theatres with a $25 ticket price. The film, which was recently nominated for five Golden Globe Awards, will open nationwide Dec. 25.

The roadshow screenings feature reserved seating, "Dreamgirls"-themed lobby displays and merchandise booths and a limited-edition program.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6573 posts
Sat Dec-23-06 08:38 AM

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34. "this movie is going to make more money than God"
In response to Reply # 31


          

off the gay dollar and the black dollar alone this thing is going to be a hit

and it is going to have legs like beyonce

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sat Dec-23-06 10:30 AM

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35. "pretty much. It's already made $624,000 in three theaters."
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both because of AND in spite of the $25 ticket price.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Sat Dec-23-06 10:41 AM

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36. "did you see my roadshow post?"
In response to Reply # 35


          

the crow tastes delicious

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Dec-27-06 08:09 PM

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67. "I saw. Glad you liked the movie."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sat Dec-23-06 08:25 AM

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33. "up."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Kuahmel
Member since Aug 30th 2003
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Sun Dec-24-06 01:15 PM

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37. "On Eddie Murphy/the James Early character *kinda SPOILER*"
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Was he fully intentional comic relief or something?

The audience at the screening I attended made it a point to laugh at his every second of camera time short of the time he was getting ready to shoot up. I didn't find it appropriate to every single time unless they were picking up on something I wasn't.

Is the Early character basically comic relief or is Eddie Murphy simply not a person moviegoers can ever take seriously? If the latter, does he have to do some dark turn a la Robin Williams?

...with who? THA DOODOOMAN!!!
www.homestarrunner.com/vcr_poop.html

kill all whites today & we'll still be f'd up. we fight over BS political ideas & ethnic allegiances but scared to defend resources of our own land. the only savior is self--thegodcam

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sun Jan-07-07 09:16 PM

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108. "I don't know why I haven't responded to this post yet, but"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Jimmy Early IS comic relief for much of the play/film, but you are supposed to take him seriously at other points. The stage version of the character is more lighthearted than Murphy's version, though.

  

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Cre8
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Wed Jan-10-07 12:30 PM

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125. "Boomerrang didn't garner as many laughs"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

least not towards Eddie's character. I think Jimmy was suppose to be comical to a degree similar to Lil Richard, just full of glitter, smiles, sex and soul. That really all came across during his final performance...however I wasn't expecting him to rap:/

Food/Drink PlayersCookbook Info:
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Please submit your recipes to playerscookbook@yahoo.com or inbox and don't forget PHOTOS.

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jigga
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Fri Jan-19-07 04:49 PM

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150. "RE: On Eddie Murphy/the James Early character *kinda SPOILER*"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>Was he fully intentional comic relief or something?
>
>The audience at the screening I attended made it a point to
>laugh at his every second of camera time short of the time he
>was getting ready to shoot up. I didn't find it appropriate
>to every single time unless they were picking up on something
>I wasn't.
>
>Is the Early character basically comic relief or is Eddie
>Murphy simply not a person moviegoers can ever take seriously?
> If the latter, does he have to do some dark turn a la Robin
>Williams?

He already tried that w/ Vampire in Brooklyn. If I remember correctly it didnt really work out.

  

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NAPO
Member since Oct 21st 2004
1428 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 08:09 PM

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39. "absolutely incredible flick."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

brought my girl to the ziegfeld for the christmas eve showing. the crowd was old rich white people and they were clapping and hollering i coulda swore i was back in the bronx.

it was an extremely entertaining movie. one of the best musicals i have ever seen.and it is going to make an assload of money. it seems like this is the type of movie that people will see over and over again.

jennifer hudson is going to be a star after this movie. really great screen presence, i couldnt take my eyes off her when she was on screen.

overall, highly recommended.
--------------------------
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-frank sinatra

  

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.Mica.
Member since Apr 18th 2006
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Mon Dec-25-06 09:33 PM

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40. "I loved it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

2 things tho:

The lipsynching on jennifers part featured some fuck ups but I blame that a bit more on the editor who didn't cut the scene where you didn't se jenny mess up rather than her.

Also other than thr I'm telling u scene the I'm changing scene where there was no instruments but u hear it while watching like a guitar but no strings.

I know that's musicals for you but it bugged me.

Jennifer was great tho. The oscar is hers.

I was mad folks claped for beyonces listen I'm like "clappings reserved for jennifers show stopper".

+BEST BLOG EVER:
http://theworldaroundusblog.blogspot.com (updated daily!!)

+my fave okp beef: logical explanations vs lessonheads © okp KayCee

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 12:13 AM

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44. "weird, it was the opposite where I saw it...."
In response to Reply # 40
Tue Dec-26-06 12:14 AM by jambone

  

          

>I was mad folks claped for beyonces listen I'm like "clappings
>reserved for jennifers show stopper".

People really cheered like they were in church and gave Jennifer thunderous applause in the theatre during different parts of the signature song, especially at the end of the song. They were in awe of the power she brought to the song.

They gave a light clap at the end for Beyonce's song "listen".


<--- we've got bush!

  

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freedomtrain
Member since Dec 03rd 2003
216 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 04:16 AM

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49. "RE: weird, it was the opposite where I saw it...."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

>>I was mad folks claped for beyonces listen I'm like
>"clappings
>>reserved for jennifers show stopper".
>
>People really cheered like they were in church and gave
>Jennifer thunderous applause in the theatre during different
>parts of the signature song, especially at the end of the
>song. They were in awe of the power she brought to the song.
>
>They gave a light clap at the end for Beyonce's song
>"listen".
>
>
>
That is actually what happend when I saw it. Also people can not take Eddie serious, he's a great actor but folks just think everything he does is funny.

Freedom Train
Urban Podcast Network
www.freedomtrainonline.com

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Tue Dec-26-06 10:44 AM

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53. "yep"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

>>
>That is actually what happend when I saw it. Also people can
>not take Eddie serious, he's a great actor but folks just
>think everything he does is funny.

Everytime the camera was put on Eddie, mofos kept giggling.

Practically, everytime. lol

<--- we've got bush!

  

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theBoondocksGurl
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
3651 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 10:26 PM

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41. "horrible.the film was not directed well at all."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

can we please get some real actors to act in these "bigtime" movies. not amatuerus, real actors. people who love to act. not beyonce, not jennifer hudson.

the only people who performed well was Eddie Murphy and Anika Noni Rose.




<<<<< The Ultimate Ryders

http://www.dukeofdollars.com/home.php?ref=Kimgo21

  

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The_Orange_Ninja_Turtle
Member since Jan 14th 2005
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Mon Dec-25-06 11:27 PM

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42. "Great"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Tue Dec-26-06 12:10 AM

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43. "great movie. good performances, funny moments..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...a lot of the press kept putting Eddie on a pedestal (eddie still did a great job), but I thought Jamie was great and stronger in the movie imo.


Jennifer can sing her A-S-S off!!!

Beyonce sounded great for her song "listen".

Great movie, you will enjoy it.

Lot of funny parts in the movie.

<--- we've got bush!

  

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dunk
Member since Aug 05th 2006
8024 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 06:25 PM

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57. "thank"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

i mean Eddie did a great job but i'd definitely say Jamie did a better job.

  

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HotThyng76
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Tue Dec-26-06 12:17 AM

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45. "Beyonce, I take it all back."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i talked a lot of shit about ol' girl in anticipation of seeing the movie and now i see i was wrong. well, i don't know if i was wrong or if i just feel bad for ol' girl for the way she got ATE UP through the whole movie by Jennifer and Eddie. i shouldn't feel bad really b/c that's how the parts were written, i guess. and it's not like the movie was a competition between anyone (b/c if it were Jen won by a landslide...based on applause alone), everyone had a role to play. anyway, yeah my hate for the Yonce has diminished significantly.

and damn it they better crown Jennifer's ass. immediately.
_______________________

  

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Precision Control
Member since Jul 22nd 2005
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Tue Dec-26-06 01:04 AM

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46. "so um, why's jennifer getting supporting nods, not leads?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is it something contractual? ol girl KILLS in this movie. i mean knocks it completely out the park! jamie was pretty damn good, too. eddie's singing was hilarious. and damned if beyonce ain't FINE! and not bad acting in the film, either

Hip-hop could never be a way of life / It doesn't teach you how to raise a kid or treat a wife -- Q-Tip

  

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HotThyng76
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Tue Dec-26-06 01:23 AM

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47. "Freddy isn't here so..."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

>is it something contractual?

it's more strategic than contractual, i think. she's not going to beat the leads for an award (she'd be up against Meryl, Helen Mirren, etc) but she can beat the supportings.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Dec-27-06 08:14 PM

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69. "I still think it's contractural myself."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

  

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JBoogs
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48. "hmmm, i thot Eddie was doing his Nutty Professor Buddy Love bit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for most of his screen time
meh
i liked his Marvin Gaye-esque proto-boho knit hat tho

Jennifer Hudson killt
***************
www.myspace.com/angoleiro
www.myspace.com/manjingaparty

  

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Precision Control
Member since Jul 22nd 2005
5006 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 06:59 AM

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50. "Jimmy got Soul!"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Hip-hop could never be a way of life / It doesn't teach you how to raise a kid or treat a wife -- Q-Tip

  

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Young H
Member since Mar 15th 2006
35550 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 09:10 AM

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52. "dropping his pants was Marvin too"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

___________

  

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teapoetess
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Tue Dec-26-06 10:06 PM

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59. "that was one of my two favorite eddie parts. that and..."
In response to Reply # 52


          

when he was *first* tryna get with lorell and she asked if he was married. the way he looked before he said, "everybody knows jimmy's married." and then how he muttered, "... so it's gon' take *two* weeks."

that was pretty much it.

i don't get why he's the man getting the most acclaim.

http://postbourgie.com
http://stacialbrown.wordpress.com

  

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Torez
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Tue Dec-26-06 07:35 AM

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51. "good, not great"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

visually, it was beautiful and
the performances were top notch,
but even the 'fleshed out' characters
like effi and curtis were still flat
to me. there was just enough development
to intrigue me, but before i could get
anything meaningful from them, folks
broke into song.

  

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DVActivist
Member since Oct 19th 2004
20915 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 06:04 PM

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56. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

i felt the same way
if they put as much soul into their speaking/acting parts as they did the singing parts it would have been better
def not oscar worthy acting performances

**********************************************

When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it.
- Bernard Bailey

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 07:34 PM

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58. "None of them are oscar-worthy actors, well the girls aren't..."
In response to Reply # 56
Tue Dec-26-06 07:36 PM by jambone

  

          

>i felt the same way
>if they put as much soul into their speaking/acting parts as
>they did the singing parts it would have been better
>def not oscar worthy acting performances

They can sang, but none of the girls are established actors really, let alone "great" actors,even Beyonce. They are mostly raw. Well Anika won some awards, and a Tony, but she was struggling before this movie opportunity.

Eddie and Jamie (despite his Oscar) aren't on Denzel's and Sam Jackson' level in terms of acting.

You gotta take it for what its worth.

They played the parts the best they could,especially the girls.


<--- we've got bush!

  

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8Track
Member since Oct 31st 2006
78 posts
Wed Dec-27-06 01:12 AM

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60. "Jennifer Hudson SONNED Halle Berry in Monsters Ball"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

and Halle got an Oscar. Jennifer WILL be nominated and I think she will win.

  

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DVActivist
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:19 AM

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61. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

you're kidding right?

the poster above you mentioned these actresses being raw and i suppose that is what ruined the movie for me. they should've worked on their craft before trying to attempt at what could have been a much better big screen performance. they did this musical no justice, in my opinion, regardless of whether or not jennifer ripped on that song.

**********************************************

When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it.
- Bernard Bailey

  

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NotYaAvgBrotha
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Wed Dec-27-06 04:41 PM

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64. "Halle DID NOT deserve that Oscar...."
In response to Reply # 61


          

Her performance in Monster's Ball was not even as good as Angela Bassets worst performance. People called it gritty because they were not used to seeing her that way. It takes more than getting rid of your hair stylist and make-up artist to be gritty.

Jennifer Hudson did an OUTSTANDING job and when you factor in the fact it is her first role ever, it makes it all the more amazing.

No disrespect to Halle, but she ain't seein' Angela Basset, Kerry Washington, or even Regina King when it comes to acting.

  

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noelleeeeeeee
Member since Jul 08th 2006
807 posts
Wed Dec-27-06 07:56 PM

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65. "RE: lmao"
In response to Reply # 61


          

I have to agree.

All of the so called "acting" in this movie was highly overrated.

I didn't see where any of the roles required much ACTING.

After seeing the movie again, I honestly thought it was quite average and highly overrated both by the press and moviegoers.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Dec-27-06 08:08 PM

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66. "Well, you're entitled to your opinion."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

As I am to mine.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Dec-28-06 09:12 PM

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74. "WRONG!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 65
Thu Dec-28-06 09:19 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>All of the so called "acting" in this movie was highly
>overrated.
>
>I didn't see where any of the roles required much ACTING.

Julia Roberts plays Julia Roberts in half of her roles.

Tom Hanks plays Tom Hanks in half his roles.


Both are, however, GOOD ACTORS despite the fact that they
don't always have to bend their personality in their roles.


You are making the classic artsy fartsy film buff mistake
of equating "acting" to "new personality," which is why everyone
who plays a retarded person in a decent film tends to get
nominated, regardless of whether or not the acting was
really any good.

Understated is often very underrated. Sometimes the best
acting performances involve nailing the basics, not
portraying a psychotic depressed hermaphrodite
nymphomanic.

Jennifer Hudson SMASHED her role.

I, nor you, should give a fuck if the role was close to her
actual personality or not, nor do we have the right
to say how much acting went into the role.

At the end of the night, we simply ask the following
questions:

a)Did the actress/actor communicate the character's
hardships, personality nuances, and make us, the
audience CARE.

b)Was the actor/actress consistent from scene to scene?

c)Did we see many sides of the character, and were they
all convincing(a slept on detail that good
actresses/actors do well)?


The answer to a-c is a thorough HELL YES for
Jennifer Hudson. It is fact, not only a HELL YES,
its a HELL-ER YES than any actress performance
I've seen this year(not even close, imo).

Its also true for Jaime Foxx, and Eddie Murphy,
and to a lesser extent, Beyonce.

Overall, it was a well done movie. Very well done.
Well acted. Well shot. Well directed.


>After seeing the movie again, I honestly thought it was quite
>average and highly overrated both by the press and
>moviegoers.


And after reading your post again, I honestly think you
are forcing the contrarian viewpoint.





  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jan-09-07 01:55 PM

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115. "Well done."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Dec-27-06 08:13 PM

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68. "I said the same thing about "Chicago", only "speaking/acting" and"
In response to Reply # 56
Wed Dec-27-06 08:38 PM by Nukkapedia

  

          

"singing" were reversed.

And I thought the acting, despite a few flubbed lines, was far above my expectations for all involved, especially Beyoncé.

As far as comedy/musical performances go (at least the Golden Globes has SOMETHING right; drama and comedy/musical performances should be judged seperately), "Dreamgirls" is loaded with winning performances (Eddie, Anika, Jamie, Jennifer), performances that are still great (Keith Robinson), and performances that are still good (Beyoncé).

  

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ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 12:40 PM

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54. "Liked it a lot"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don't really like musicals either, but this flick was put together really well. Everyone held down their roles, songs were filled with emotion and fit well within the story. I liked the direction and set design. flowed pretty well throughout, despite semi-slow beginning. Prolly right up there wit departed for most enjoyable movies of the year for me.

  

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DVActivist
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Tue Dec-26-06 06:01 PM

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55. "i was disappointed"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

honestly
i enjoyed the overall story and how it was told
but beyonce and jennifers acting sucked so bad, it just didn't draw me in like i thought it would
they need to stick to singing, forreal
i mean it wasn't HORRIBLE but definitely not as moving as it could have been
they both did amazing jobs with their singing of course, and the songs were fun. eddie and jamie were very good as was the third singer.

**********************************************

When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it.
- Bernard Bailey

  

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luvlee2003
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16524 posts
Wed Dec-27-06 12:00 PM

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62. "luvlee's thoughts on the Blk Gay Superbowl"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Okay so we went on opening night. I insisted on going to a theatre "of color" because i love my people and I knew this was a movie to be enjoyed in a group setting and wouldn't require quiet concentration.

I really really enjoyed it. And the replay value of this thing is going to be great. It can appeal to a lot of people. If you like eye candy you have Beyonce, comedy you have Eddie, great Fatima choreography...

Visually I thought it was gorgeous. The colors were off the hook during most of the performances. Everything just felt "staged" really sharply.

Jennifer did an awesome job. I don't know if it was "oscar worthy" (i never quite forgot that i was watching Jennifer) but if she ends up nominated for Supporting anything is possible. Let us not forget that Marisa Tomei has an Oscar for My Cousin Vinny and Whoopi won hers for Ghost. So it's not THAT much of a stretch to think that a rookie like her could pull it off. She entertained and thats really all you need to do.

On her singing "the song" it was truly overwhelming. I knew it was coming, had heard clips of it, and thought I knew what to expect but it truly left me in awe. The audience I was in sat there in silence for a couple of seconds afterwards just catching its breath and then gave her an ovation. I was truly tired when she finished like I had just sung it with her.

I thought Beyonce did a good job. It wasn't an overwhelming performance but she did the job she needed to do. Having seen her in Carmen and Goldfinger I know that she can do the doe eyed thing and the "im a strong woman now!" thing so she played her part well. I have to say that I was totally distracted by how much her life seemed to mirror that of Deena's. Almost too creepy/sad. The whole commodity aspect was just overwhelming. Wonder how she felt about that...

Also, if it is true, I'd like to reiterate how much of a tool i think Usher is for turning down the role of CC.

I do believe we do have another Blk classic on our hands though a la Coming to America, Boomerang, Waiting To Exhale, Friday etc. Just the sheer blk star power of this ensemble was awesome- I mean they had Urkle representing! Urkel!

Did they remove a love scene between Curtis and Effie? I coulda sworn they showed a clip for one when they were on Oprah. If i didn't imagine that and they did it was probably a good call. That helps solidify its PG-13ness which will give it some legs in terms of the people would want to go see this (teens, older folks, church folk etc).

www.twitter.com/luvlee2003

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Dec-28-06 12:10 AM

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71. "True, but my theatre was 95% white."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          


White people are all up in this mix too, believe it or not.

They are the ones who are pushing this for awards and all of that.

Not quite sure why -- probably because the director is white.

Same with 'Hustle and Flow' -- white director = automatic appreciation
by artistic circles.

Had a black director made either film, they'd get a fraction
of the appreciation from the artistic circles.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed Dec-27-06 12:49 PM

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63. "TOP 10 PLEASANT SURPRISE MOVIE VIEWINGS OF MY LIFE."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Not top 10 film ever. Nah.

Top 10 PLEASANT SURPRISES EVER.

Yeah.

I Sorta didn't expect much.

WOW.

Incredible film.

Even when I heard the film was good, I was thinking it was
'Ray' good, which was sorta good, but not *that* good.

This movie was truly exquisite.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6573 posts
Wed Dec-27-06 10:59 PM

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70. "#3 on Christmas Day"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and that wouldn't be a good thing if it didn't open on about 852 screens as opposed to 2500 plus of the #1 and #2 spot (and it opened # 3 not just of this weekend but of ALL TIME. and the movies in both cases that beat it opened on close to 4 times as many screens)

per screen, the movie did REALLY well.

and it's gonna have beyonce legs too

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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KnowOne
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Thu Dec-28-06 11:26 AM

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72. ""Jimmy Got SOOOOOOOUL!!!!!""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*drops pants*

lol

Liked it way more than I thought I would.

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Thu Dec-28-06 05:36 PM

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73. "I ordered one of the road show programs on eBay as my"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Christmas present to myself, and, I must say, I love it.

More films should be released in road show format with 48-page oversized full-color programs.

  

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Odyssee
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Thu Dec-28-06 10:50 PM

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75. "RE: The Official PTP "Dreamgirls" Post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

- why folx clap when jennifer sings a song. she's good, but she cant hear you clapping--stop it
- why folx hate on beyonce's performance--she was her character, as was everyone else in the movie
- why ppl say b cant take the back seat

beyonce & jennifer received the same amount of screen time in the movie and they both were given original songs

i for one didn't see effie as the underdog. she was stubborn and stupid. curtis did alot of wrong, but all that mess wasnt his fault. they were just as much to blame (except for when he stole effie's song and had deena redo it--although i liked the disco version).

i think folx hate on beyonce because she has talent and is pretty. it's not her fault. it reminds me of the pretty girl, smart person, or good girl/boy in school that folx hate on just because. i'm sure she gets tired of being the "pretty one"

the movie was good, but not as good as everyone makes it out to be. dont think its oscar material, but most of the movies that get nominated shouldnt be there anyway

i will be getting the soundtrack b/c "JIMMY WANT MORE....."

  

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avillago
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Fri Dec-29-06 05:41 PM

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76. "GARBAGE!!!"
In response to Reply # 75


          

guess I'm one of the few that hated this film.


to me, its one of the worst of the year...painful to watch (me and my girl almost walked out). and its official, Jaimie Foxx can't sing unless he's doing Ray. he croons, but does not sing well and there is a difference. Liked Eddie in his scenes, but had a very small role. And they did the impossible and actually made Beyonce look unattractive in some scenes.

I looked at my girl and said, "if Eddie starts singing about his struggle with heroin, were leaving". Later she said, "if Effie's little girl starts singing about her lost father, were leaving".

We walked out right when the group was doing their last reunion show.

Felt like I was watching a wack female version of "the five heartbeats"

Skip this and check out Children of Men, Pan's Labryinth, Perfume, Exiled on HK dvd, Curse of the Golden Flower, Apocalypto, Volver, and even Rocky.... these films are way better this shit Dreamgirls.

  

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Odyssee
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78. "how was apocolypto"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

and children of men? thought about checking those out

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Dec-29-06 09:58 PM

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77. "I LOVED Jennifer Hudson. Loved loved loved the big song."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Eddie was also great, Anika and Keith both ripped it, Jamie and Beyonce did well...the whole thing was fantastic.

I didn't like the inclusion of Listen. I still don't like some of the things I don't like about the actual show. But overall this movie was a big big success to me.

Bill Condon is a filmmaker to watch in the coming years imo.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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JRennolds
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79. "I heart this movie aka BEYONCE is so damn sexy!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Incredible acting, great script, amazing talent and...BEYONCE!

GOMD

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sat Dec-30-06 11:36 AM

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81. "She was lookin VERY fine. That last outfit? Lord have mercy."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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JRennolds
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82. "I preferred early Beyonce. Her plain Jane steeze...........BONG!"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

B is so gorgeous.

GOMD

  

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Precision Control
Member since Jul 22nd 2005
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Sat Dec-30-06 08:23 PM

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83. "when she left the note on her mom's couch"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

and she had that long brown ponytail....she looked amazing!

Hip-hop could never be a way of life / It doesn't teach you how to raise a kid or treat a wife -- Q-Tip

  

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roamr1
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80. "just saw it...i loved it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

anika noni rose has got a body on her!!! ooooh weee.

  

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Shelly
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84. "Greeat Movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Jennifer Hudson was WONDERFUL !!!!!!! Her and Eddie made that movie !!!!

I was a little offended that Beyonce wrote a song for the film and attempted to SANG shit was comical compared to Jennifer doing Your gonna love me. I guess the majority of the people in the theatre I watched knew the song and were applauding when Jennifer did her thang, the young girls didn't understand why we were clapping, but they startd clapping for Beyonce when she did her little song and wondered out loud why no one else was clapping for her.,

  

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kysersozey
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85. "well done"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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.Mica.
Member since Apr 18th 2006
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Mon Jan-01-07 08:12 AM

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86. "so...financially speaking, is this movie a flop?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

yeah it pulled in mad roadshow money, but it hitting at #3 this week with $15 mil, and not #1 with like $25 mil makes me wonder if its on its way to being a flop, financially.

i mean, im pretty sure itll make its $75 million pricetag back, ifi not through theatre sales then hopefully dvd, but i hoped that given the hype this movie got, itd be doing better.

i mean, at the very least, beating wack-ass "nightmare at the natural history mueseum with ben stiller" for #1.

+BEST BLOG EVER:
http://theworldaroundusblog.blogspot.com (updated daily!!)

+my fave okp beef: logical explanations vs lessonheads © okp KayCee

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Jan-01-07 11:02 AM

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87. "This movie is doing VERY well."
In response to Reply # 86
Mon Jan-01-07 11:03 AM by Nukkapedia

  

          

far above expectations. It's only playing in 853 theaters. "Night at the Museum" is playing at 3,768 theaters.

The fact that "Dreamgirls" is #3 this weekend, when it's in a fraction of the theaters a lot of the other movies are in, is quite impressive. It's making more money per theater than any-other movie currently in national release.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?yr=2006&wknd=52&p=.htm

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Jan-01-07 06:38 PM

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88. "On: The Music in "Dreamgirls""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've read a bunch of reviews from critics and consumers who love the movie, with the reservation that "the songs don't sound enough like Motown songs."

But let's be real: giving "Dreamgirls" demerits for having showtunes for a soundtrack is like blaming "House Party" for having hip-hop songs for a soundtrack. The music is SUPPOSED to sound like that. In fact, Henry Krieger and Tom Eyen were quoted - back in 1981 - that they went out of their way to make sure the songs DIDN'T sound like Motown songs.

"Dreamgirls" is a Broadway musical adaptation, not a Motown/Supremes biopic. And even if it WERE a Motown biopic, only three of the thirty songs present in the score should actually sound like Motown songs: "Love You I Do", "Dreamgirls", and "Heavy".

The other performance songs should sound like the R&B and pop songs that were popular during the time period they are presented in, and save for a few anachronisms (wah-wah guitar on "I'm Looking for Something", 80s-style electric guitars on the performance half of "Steppin' to the Bad Side" and "One Night Only"), the music succeeds in this respect.

All of the "book songs" that work as dialogue in the film ("And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going", "When I First Saw You", etc.) are exmpt from period concerns, and could very well be presented in any way desirable (though it's best to keep them close to the other songs for consistency).

I didn't hear none of this shit leveled at "Chicago", whose songs do the same sort of line-straddling between Broadway showtune and period music that the songs in "Dreamgirls" do.

Thoughts?

  

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tralfaz
Member since Jan 23rd 2007
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Tue Jan-23-07 03:16 PM

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167. "RE: On: The Music in "Dreamgirls""
In response to Reply # 88


          

OK, We've got to just watch the movie and take it at face value.

But,

I'll admit that in Chicago only a couple of the songs sound authentic to the 20s, but here's the deal. With any musical, the writers make a choice about the style of the music. Maybe Henry Krieger and Tom Eyen didn't want the music to sound Motown (so that people wouldn't keep thinking Supremes I suppose), but the early songs don't really sound like they are from the 60s at all. Most of the songs have that 70s funk/disco groove. The reason that some of us complain is that 1) we remember the music of the time (we weren't around 1925), and 2) that Dreamgirls is about the MUSIC INDUSTRY of the 1960s. They managed to make a musical about the music of the 60s without 60s music. Why? Didn't they like the R&B,Soul,Girl Group music from the early-mid 60s? It seems like if any musical used "authentic" music from the period, this is the one that should!

At least one musical has dealt with this before. The original 1966 score of the musical Caberet didn't sound all that 1930s, but the 1972 movie version used new arrangements and made the music more authentic The people who made the Caberet weren't afraid to rearrange the score when the musical was only 6 years old, but Condon DIDN'T make new music arrangements after 25 years. Would the fans of the stage show Dreamgirls have been upset if the music was a little truer to the 60s style? 25 years later?

I think for me, Little Shop of Horrors and Hairsray, which do a tribute(and satire) of a music era and style makes me wonder why authentic music isn't used more in period musicals.

Would you have liked Dreamgirls less if the music had been arranged to sound more authentic?

Can you tell I'm a musical geek?

  

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bignick
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89. "Wow. They really got it right."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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son_of_mr_hankey
Member since Aug 26th 2002
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Tue Jan-02-07 03:00 PM

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90. "Please Explain This To Me"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-02-07 03:06 PM by son_of_mr_hankey

  

          

How is Hudson a supporting actress when the Effie character is actually the star of the production? To say the least Hudson and Jamie Fox are the stars of this film. The original play revolved around Effie not Deena.






>Yes, I know it's a week and a half before the film is
>released (and two and a half weeks before its wide release),
>but I wanted to consolidate any and all "Dreamgirls"-related
>postings under one thread.
>
>The premiere was Monday night. After posing on the red carpet
>for a few snapshots, The Yonce cut out early to go celebrate
>Jay-Z's birthday. They paid her $12.5 million to appear in
>this picture and co-write and co-produce "Listen" (making her
>the highest paid black actress in cinema history), and she
>couldn't even stay for the premiere? Jay's gon' have more
>birthdays, sister! But you're going to have only one
>"Dreamgirls" premiere.
>
>The original Broadway cast was all invited (dunno if they
>showed up or not)...except for Jennifer Holliday, whom I hear
>is (quite) difficult to work with, and long ago got on David
>Geffen's bad side (ooo ooo ooo....*rimshot*). Holliday ran,
>not walked, to "The Wendy Williams Experience" ("Experience?"
>Who the hell does she think she is, Jimi Hendrix?), and
>attempted to dredge up sympathy from a listening public who
>doesn't know that there;s a lot more to why she didn't get ot
>go to the premiere (they've hardly forgotten about the
>original Broadway actors; Loretta Devine and Hinton Battle
>both appear in the film).
>
>Other than this, the premiere went on as scheduled. The film
>recieved a standing ovation, and Jennifer Hudson's "And I Am
>Telling You I'm Not Going" scene received its own standing
>ovation (in particular from a weeping Rosie O'Donnell...lol).
>The film has apparently been altered from the version I saw in
>November -- seven minutes have been added to the runtime.
>
>---
>
>And now, here's a (short but sweet) scene from "Dreamgirls",
>of Jennifer Hudson as Effie White singing "Love You I Do", a
>song written for the film by original "Dreamgirls" composer
>Henry Krieger and 80's R&B singer Siedah Garrett:
>
>hxxp://www.sendspace.com/file/5kjgeo
>
>This scene is part of the "Dreamgirls" movie trailer podcast
>(that means it's LEGAL, mods!): it's in iTunes as a free
>download, but it's apparently not up on Apple.com yet.

From a sick okaypuppy: "Remember, Aquaman.... I will be there. Behind your shower curtain. Under your kitchen sink. Inside of your Anus. Big Brother loves you Aquaman? If you can't love me Aquaman, at least let me buttfuck you."-hideyaface

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Tue Jan-02-07 03:05 PM

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91. "it's apparently strategic, so Hudson has"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

a better chance of winning.

Because the film revolves around her as well. They haven't altered the film to make Deena the main character.

  

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son_of_mr_hankey
Member since Aug 26th 2002
703 posts
Tue Jan-02-07 05:10 PM

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92. "RE: it's apparently strategic, so Hudson has"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

then why was B nominated for best actress?

From a sick okaypuppy: "Remember, Aquaman.... I will be there. Behind your shower curtain. Under your kitchen sink. Inside of your Anus. Big Brother loves you Aquaman? If you can't love me Aquaman, at least let me buttfuck you."-hideyaface

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Jan-02-07 05:26 PM

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93. "It's one great big media conspiracy."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

The media, Paramount, Jay-Z, Nas, and Matty Knowles are conspiring to hold Jennifer Hudson back and promote Beyonce. To the moon, even.
_______________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. Tristram Shandy

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Tue Jan-02-07 06:19 PM

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94. "LOL."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

  

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DrNO
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95. "really enjoyed it"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-02-07 06:38 PM by DrNO

  

          

I wish they had hired some better producers for the music though. That song about family was GODAWFUL because of all the muzak going on.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Jan-03-07 01:23 PM

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98. "Trust me when I say it's less "Muzak" than the Broadway version."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

Trust me when I say it's less "Muzak" than the Broadway version.

Much less. The film version has more rhtyhm, and relies more on acoustic guitar riffs than the orchestra.

This apparently isn't a popular opinion at all, but "Family" is one of my favorite moments in the film.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Wed Jan-03-07 10:04 AM

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96. "Fiya review"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://fiyastarter.com/fs-pages/fs-ent-moviereview-dreamgirls.html

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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jalen05
Member since Oct 12th 2005
330 posts
Wed Jan-03-07 11:38 AM

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97. "RE: Fiya review"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

I'm undecided if I want to see this or not. How long was it?

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Wed Jan-03-07 01:58 PM

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99. "2:05"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>I'm undecided if I want to see this or not. How long was
>it?
______________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. United 93

  

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sithlord
Member since Aug 05th 2002
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Wed Jan-03-07 02:50 PM

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100. "Dreamgirls...The Memphis Experience (spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

Me and my girl went to check it out during the afternoon on the day after Christmas, mistakenly thinking everybody's ass would be back at work. Damn if we weren't wrong.

It is only playing in four theaters in Memphis and the 1:20 was sold out. We came back at 3:30 (after snatching up the tickets for that show after finding out about the first one) and discovered that it was sold out for the rest of the day at that particular theater.

We got there at 3:10 and the joint was PACKED. I'd say it was 95% black people in there with some scary looking white people sprinkled in. We got a couple of seats on the top row and buckled in. About ten minutes after we sat down, this dude comes up to us and asks if we can move down one seat so his "family can sit together". I didn't care, but my girl later admitted she didn't want to move. Dude offered to buy us some popcorn, so we moved. Big ass mistake.

When the rest of dude's family got there (which included his nephew and his "girlfriend". BS, dude was gayer than an eleven dollar bill and he knew all the damn songs in the movie), one of them asked who all was there and somebody shouted out "North Memphis!".

Earlier in the day, we were discussing how if you sit in public anywhere in Memphis long enough, you'll hear some ig'nant (not ignorant, ig'nant) conversation. More on that later...

The flick starts after previews of Freedom Writers and Stomp the Yard (which prompted responses of "Ooohh I miss college" and "I can't wait to see that" from our adopted family). I'm sitting next to a classic black movie goer. The kind that talks to the screen or goes "mmmm" every time something significant happens on screen. Somehow these people always sit next to or around me. My sister is also one of these people.

At the beginning, when Jimmy's backup singers are walking out, one of them, who actually does resemble Margaret Avery (Shug from The Color Purple), prompted a "that's Shug Avery. Mmm hmmm. Sho' is" from the lady sitting next to me. Never mind that that actress was in her twenties and I'm sure Margaret is about 50 now. Other highlights from this woman during the movie:
"Don't turn yo back on him girl. He gonna shoot her." - When Deena walks out on Curtis
"He know he wrong,"- When Jimmy hits on Lorell
"Ooohh the Jacksons"- During the kid group performance

Anyway, like some people said above, despite a great performance from Eddie Murphy, everytime he was on screen, people laughed. Most annoying was when Jimmy died and they showed his body being taken out on TELEVISION. Eddie wasn't even in the scene and he got laughs. It reminded me of when I saw Hollywoodland and George Reeves was cut out of From Here to Eternity because people couldn't see him as anything but Superman.

Also, most people didn't realize this was a musical because whenever a song started, people began to laugh. And I do mean, whenever a song started. I mean, if you've never seen a musical or haven't seen one made in the last two decades, it is a little jarring to see people break into song, but damn, man. Come on.

And now, the show stopper. When Jennifer Hudson began "And I Am Telling You..." She gets out the first two lines. Uncontrolled applause. She finishes the second verse, uncontrolled applause. She breaks it down, uncontrolled applause. She finishes the song, uncontrolled applause. Dammit!

I liked the movie, but I never saw the original play. My girl had and pointed out a few differences. She liked it as well, but was equally turned off by the crowd. Could Jennifer Hudson pull down the Oscar? Probably. If nothing else, her success proves that American Idol is a joke. Lose out on that show and get the role of a lifetime and acclaim from everybody everywhere or win that show and get to put out songs like "Baby Mama" and "Hood Boy". I'll take the first choice.

Wasn't Fantasia up for Effie? That would have been interesting, seeing as how she has admitted that she can't read.

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Wed Jan-03-07 06:10 PM

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103. "Yes she was. Fantasia didn't make the cut."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

>Wasn't Fantasia up for Effie? That would have been
>interesting, seeing as how she has admitted that she can't
>read.
>
>

Jennifer was better than everybody who tried out for the role.

And you see why in the movie.

<--- we've got bush!

  

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isisbabyboy3
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Mon Jan-08-07 11:47 AM

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110. "RE: Dreamgirls...The Memphis Experience (spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 100


          

I empathize with ya bra....its hard living here in Memphis. The reason for shit like that is our Mayor wants to build new football stadiums n shit instead of doing something about the failing school system.

Education is the great divider in this city, and the reason so many "ignorant" folks exist is the pervasive social inequality in Memphis on all levels. So I feel ya man...

"Unequal economics can easily make you some enemies" Cee-Lo

  

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.Mica.
Member since Apr 18th 2006
8846 posts
Tue Jan-09-07 08:18 PM

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116. "she SURE DID look like margaret avery!!!!"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one that noticed!

+BEST BLOG EVER:
http://theworldaroundusblog.blogspot.com (updated daily!!)

+my fave okp beef: logical explanations vs lessonheads © okp KayCee

  

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sithlord
Member since Aug 05th 2002
2832 posts
Tue Jan-16-07 02:10 PM

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146. "Fantasia would have sucked though..."
In response to Reply # 116
Tue Jan-16-07 02:16 PM by sithlord

  

          

there's just something about her that screams, "All I know how to do is sing. That's it. Nothing else." She's the kind of person Effie was, but i don't think she could have played Effie.

Jennifer Hudson actually has skills. Whether she has range to be a full time actress remains to be seen. If she wins an Oscar, I'm wondering if she'll get more acting work or if she'll go back to singing and become another faceless R and B singer, who happens to have an Oscar and Golden Globe.

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Wed Jan-03-07 03:30 PM

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101. "Critic Pimp Slaps Dream Girls"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

TIME TO GET GOING
Trivializing the power and pride of the pop music experience
By Armond White



Dreamgirls
Directed by Bill Condon


“And I Am Telling You I’m Not Going”—realistically understood as “The Stalker’s Anthem”—is the show-stopping number from Dreamgirls in which a woman begs and threatens a man to love her. Despite its ostentatious build-up, “And I Am Telling You” has not entered the Broadway canon: It’s a number white actresses don’t/won’t attempt because it’s culturally stigmatized. The song is so wildly humiliating that it can only be rationalized as a cartoonish black stereotype—the anguish of Bessie Smith and Billie Holiday and Aretha Franklin thoughtlessly jumbled and coarsened into a hebephrenic climax.


All this is worth pointing out in order to understand that the hype surrounding the gaudy movie version of Dreamgirls is unacceptable. The film’s makers mindlessly reproduce the stage show’s inauthenticity. The media have conceded to this nonsense, as if it were all in good fun. But this “fun” is dubious, typecasting black American behavior and culture into shrillness and frivolity. The essential silliness of Dreamgirls was brilliantly captured in the little-seen indie Camp when a white teenage girl sang the showstopper to a pipsqueak black boy. It flipped the show’s own stereotypes and exposed the song’s inane sentimentality while demonstrating that it only functions as a theatrical device: Aunt Jemima Ex Machina.


Sure, Dreamgirls is basically a confection, but its core is soul-rotting. It trivializes black American pop music’s mid-20th century development into a world-conquering force, reducing the amazing, irresistible Girl Group phenomenon into pop of a lower order—camp. A dreadful betrayal takes place in the show’s oft-reprised title song: “We’re your dreamgirls/Boys, we’ll make you happy/Dreams that will never leave you.” That’s not just an adolescent paean—at heart, it’s gay fandom. But the very real subject of androgynous identification (black girls in white drag) gets obscured; it deserves better than this trashy roman à clef.


Critics generally accept that Dreamgirls recreates the story of Detroit’s black-owned Motown Records and how entrepreneur Berry Gordy chose Diana Ross to be the leader of The Supremes, prompting the demotion of the late Florence Ballard. But this fable is historically inaccurate, the plot an inane excuse for melodramatic hysteria. What Dreamgirls gets wrong—everything from the music to history to the misunderstood cultural iconography—is more damaging than any entertainment it offers. Dreamgirls threatens to leave audiences ignorant of how showbiz operates, how black artists and hustlers compromise, how American pop culture thrives.


In place of the awesome reality of Motown’s ’60s cultural revolution, Dreamgirls-the-movie becomes a plasticized emblem of today’s soulless Celebrity. Director/screenwriter Bill Condon follows the synthetic example of Chicago, replacing that film’s showbiz cynicism with an ethnically degrading naiveté. The members of the Girl Group known as The Dreams (Beyoncé Knowles, Jennifer Hudson, Anika Noni Rose), wear bubble wigs to match their bubbleheads.
They’re not playing icons but ghetto-to-glamour clichés. Condon’s fast-pace style doesn’t hide the insipidness because his cast is left playing stereotypes, not characters. Jamie Foxx’s hard-hearted hustler Curtis Taylor Jr. shows no affection for the girls or for deal making; he never grasps that Gordy’s passion for success expressed a bold, new African-American will.


Condon zips past the styles of the era without feeling (characters step out of a recording studio into—uh, oh—a race riot). This stupid compression also negates Eddie Murphy’s characterization of James Thunder Early, the soul-man star who features The Dreams as his backup singers. It was a conceptual catastrophe to cast Murphy, a hilarious mimic, in a role that is nothing more than an impersonator’s amalgam. James Thunder Early, with his turd-like pompadour, ruinously resembles Murphy’s “SNL” parodies of James Brown and Little Richard; mocking their triumphs and shrinking their genius to drug-addict tragedy. Yet, the spectacle of Murphy’s own career-comeback has taken the place of real drama. The same substitute realism affects Beyoncé’s performance as Deena; her colorless, unmotivated ambition turns into the spectacle of watching Beyoncé be Beyoncé: not the disarming, sexpot prodigy but the Celebrity—which Condon offensively equates to Diana Ross’s fame.


These two villains reveal Dreamgirls’ fakery. Condon disrespects the complex struggles of black pop artists. By tilting the aura of “genuineness” to Jennifer Hudson’s caterwauling Effie, the overweight belter who loses her man and her group to the superficial Deena, Dreamgirls insults the true legacy of black pop. Taylor’s Rainbow Records is an insipid version of Motown, and the treatment of race history is as glancing as in The Five Heartbeats.


All this was more faithfully rendered in the 1976 film Sparkle (now available on DVD). Dreamgirls ripped-off the Girl Group story of Sparkle, a genuine cult classic—forgotten by white Americans but fondly remembered by black moviegoers who responded to Curtis Mayfield’s suite of songs (ranging from teen pop to female torch) and screenwriter Joel Schumacher’s affection for the gospel-based strivings of R&B. Director Sam O’Steen’s dark imagery of Harlem stage shows had tactile sensuality, and Lonette McKee, in the central role as the doomed lead vocalist of Sister and the Sisters, paid homage to those great talents who never made it beyond the Apollo. McKee’s ripe voice and luminous narcissism were scorching. Hollywood’s failure to embrace McKee after that stunning debut puts all this folderol about Jennifer Hudson in perspective.


Hudson sings in the non-threatening, impersonal style of most “American Idol” contestants. Her version of Dreamgirls’ aria is loud, not moving. She isn’t actress enough to make the song’s loony emotions believable. Besides, it isn’t as durable as other Broadway arias; it worked only through Jennifer Holliday’s unbridled melisma and psychodrama. Holliday’s interpretation became a (black radio) classic; the inauthentic show itself never did. You don’t have to dull your taste with Dreamgirls; there’s always Sparkle.


"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Jan-03-07 06:04 PM

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102. "I remember reading this review."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

The critic slaps "Dreamgirls" backwards in favor of "Sparkle", yet fails to recognize the "Sparkle" homages throughout the film?

And I'm certain that neither the film or the musical were trying to be authentic representations of the Motown era.

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2553 posts
Tue Jan-09-07 08:33 PM

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118. "RE: What a turd."
In response to Reply # 101


          

I did not find DG more or less stereotypical than most black films.He just don't agree with the politics which is the reason why Babershop got slammed. Every black film does not have to be a showpiece on black pride

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Tue Jan-09-07 09:13 PM

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119. "actually, I find "Dreamgirls" to be a showpiece for Black pride."
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

Curtis, the villain of the piece, is a villain because he conspires to remove the soul (Effie) from his company's music in order to package it for the white man. And when soul music/Effie attempts a comeback in the mid-1970s, he crushes it with disco.

There's a sharp contrast made between Curtis' world (L.A.) and Effie's world (Detroit) that I don't know if many people picked up on. It's not by accident that Effie's always wearing those Aretha Franklin-issue Afrocentric outfits and hairstyles during the 1970s scenes. She basically represents soul music in the picture, which in real life was reduced and later fully booted out of the Supremes' sound, and most of the rest of Motown's output as well.

The fact that she triumphs in the end is a bit of a fairy-tale ending though, because disco pretty much sounded the death-knell for soul music . But people can dream, can't they?

When I first heard a recording of the original Broadway play, and scrambled to see whatever footage I could, I was appalled at how...right they got the race relations bit, even though a white man is credited with the script (both Sheryl Lee Ralph and Jennifer Holliday have later stated that the original cast did a lot of improv contributions to the script during the workshops, so much so that both believe they should have been compensated.) . The Black characters don't hate white people, they first want to legitimately prove that they've got what it takes to make it just like white folks do. And then when that fails, Curtis resorts to illegal practices. One thing the musical did that the film didn't, which I think the film SHOULD have done, was the expression of Curtis' sentiments about white people and black music in the song "Cadillac Car" (for those who have seen the movie but not the play, the scene where Curtis, Jimmy, and Marty are in the bar discussing Jimmy's sound was originally a song):

Curtis:
"Once upon a time
The Cadillac Car represented
The highest classes in America:
The pure, unstained WASP.
They never worried about the cost, no.
Then the Cadillac was bought by the rising Jews
To show that they were just as good and part of the scheme.
Now we got the Cadillac taken over by our Negro brother
To prove he too belongs in the American dream."

Jimmy: "Marty, this man just handed me a line of crap! I'm dyin' on the charts, and you're givin' me this patriotic rap?"

Curtis: "I'm trying to tell you..."
Jimmy: "Well, you better hurry up, baby!"

Curtis:
"I'm trying to tell you thus:
If the big white man can make us think we need his Cadillac
to make us feel 'as good as him',
We can make him think he needs our music
To make him feel as good as us."

That bit got almost entirely glossed over in the film. But for the most part, the rest of it still gets it right.

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
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Thu Jan-11-07 08:48 PM

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131. "RE: actually, I find "Dreamgirls" to be a showpiece for Black pride."
In response to Reply # 119


          

I thought the main theme was greed but you entitled to your opinion.

>Curtis, the villain of the piece, is a villain because he
>conspires to remove the soul (Effie) from his company's music
>in order to package it for the white man. And when soul
>music/Effie attempts a comeback in the mid-1970s, he crushes
>it with disco.
The biggest selling disco artist was Donna Summer, who is a black woman and she sounds soulful to me.

>
>There's a sharp contrast made between Curtis' world (L.A.) and
>Effie's world (Detroit) that I don't know if many people
>picked up on. It's not by accident that Effie's always wearing
>those Aretha Franklin-issue Afrocentric outfits
Which were a fad then and is another fad today adopted by the boho crowd
hairstyles
Beyonce's character had worn several hairstyles including an afro.
y
>during the 1970s scenes. She basically represents soul music
>in the picture, which in real life was reduced and later fully
>booted out of the Supremes' sound, and most of the rest of
>Motown's output as well.
I don't agree with this. Mowtown made good music if you don't want to call it SOUL that is your business.
>
>The fact that she triumphs in the end is a bit of a fairy-tale
>ending though, because disco pretty much sounded the
>death-knell for soul music .
I like disco and Hip Hop is what killed soul music because it does not require a high level of musical skill or artists that can sing well.

But people can dream, can't
>they?
Apparently most OkayPlayer can't because most people still overanalyzing films instead of just learning to take them as what they are enetrtainment. Dreamgirls don't need to become a subject of anykind of thesis on race in America

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Fri Jan-12-07 06:48 AM

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134. "That's not really an over analysis. That's what hit me"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

as I saw the film. That's what I took away from the film. And everyone involved with both the play and the movie will tell that one of "Dreamgirls'" main themes is race relations.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who will tell you that the disco movement started the end of the soul music era. Disco was all about reducing black soul music and funk into a dance-able form enjoyable by white audiences.

And, yes, Motown made good music, but a good lot of it isn't really soul music (I'm discussing the music from the "Motown Sound" era, not Marvin & Stevie's later exercises in self-expression). I used to argue that Motown's stuff was indeed soul music, and a friend counter argued. After listening to more output from other labels at the time, and reading into the history of the label, I agree that it wasn't really soul.

Motown's artists will all tell you (and HAVE all told us) about how Berry Gordy wouldn't allow his main artists to do anything too "soulful", because their target audience was white people. Artists with too much "soul" at Motown were relegated to second-rate imprints like V.I.P. Records and Soul Records, and never got the push that the other artists did.

Soul music was dead before hip-hop came along. What hip-hop killed was/is killing is contemporary R&B.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Jan-03-07 08:28 PM

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104. "And now: film-geek talk on the adaptation and the film's Oscar chances."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Now that most of us can see the movie, perhaps it's time to talk "movie-talk" about it. Now, I know ZooTown disagrees with me, but, as much as I like "Dreamgirls", I don't think it's good enough to win a Best Picture Oscar.

Besides the fact that most Best Picture winners are envelope-pushers and "Dreamgirls" is VERY retro (moreso than any other recent movie musical, "Dreamgirls" has that "early 1960s movie musical" vibe down pat), the film still suffers from the same problem the stage show suffers from: it's characters don't have much depth, except for Effie, and possibly Curtis.

Those of you who know of the play (Frank, fire(ok) if she swings by), I think the film does an okay job of adapting the stage musical, with two exceptions: the Lorrell/Jimmy and C.C./Michelle subplots both took serious hits, especially the latter. Do you think it was beneficial to remove Jimmy from the the "Family" and "It's All Over" scenes (I can see why he was taken out of the latter -- as written for the stage, it has a serious issue with wavering character motivations. How can C.C. and Lorrell be so worried about and supporting of Effie, and then turn and snap on her in song?).

Anyways, from the look of the film, and despite the "Oscar buzz" that has surrounded the film since before shooting even BEGAN (what part of the game is that?), I don't think that Bill Condon was even trying to make an Best Picture contender. "Dreamgirls", as shot, is far too slick a movie to be mistaken as having high artistic ambitions, IMO. I think people had high artistic ambitions FOR it.

Other comments:

While I appreciated Condon using bits and pieces of the actual Motown backstory to flesh the film out (and to give it a less abstract setting with the Rainbow Records headquarters), it creates the problem of people confusing "Dreamgirls" with an attempted Motown biopic or docudrama. A lot of reviewers are arguing about historical inaccuracies....isn't this supposed to be fiction.

I'm also damned tired of reading reviews where people proclaim that "the music doesn't sound like/compare to Motown". Of course not; it's a Broadway score. And even if it weren't, only four songs in the film ("Dreamgirls", "Heavy", "Love Love You Baby", and that "I'm Somebody" medley) would need to be re-tooled to give them a "Motown sound". All of the other songs in the film are either (a) non-diegetic songs that are part of the plot and therefore exempt from needing to be "period" or (b) pre- or post-date the "Motown sound" era.

  

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cara_mel
Charter member
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Fri Jan-05-07 02:09 AM

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106. "RE: And now: film-geek talk on the adaptation and the film's Oscar chanc..."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

>While I appreciated Condon using bits and pieces of the actual
>Motown backstory to flesh the film out (and to give it a less
>abstract setting with the Rainbow Records headquarters), it
>creates the problem of people confusing "Dreamgirls" with an
>attempted Motown biopic or docudrama. A lot of reviewers are
>arguing about historical inaccuracies....isn't this supposed
>to be fiction.
>
The problem with the theory of "Dreamgirls" NOT being a Motwon biopic is that they borrwed SO heavily from the Motown story when writing the adaptation from changing the setting of the story to Detroit to having the original Rainbow records offices being in the car dealership then later moving to Hollywood, to the blatent jacking of Motown 25. They jacked Motown 25 all the way down to minor details like Diana and Berry being prominently seated up in the balcony and then Diana doing the whole stroll down the aisle with her fur to meet the waiting Supremes onstage and doing the whole blowing the kiss thing to Berry. All were contained in the movie. Deena being cast in Cleopatra where as she says "the character stays 16 years old throughtout the movie" a la "The Wiz." I'll be honest, as a Bonafide Motown junkie, I sat there in the theatre calling out all the references to Motown. Things that were not in the original production. They went through to many pains to make it LOOK like Motown when they didnt have to just to come back and say "no, no, its not about Motown..." More then likely cause they thougt it wouldnt be picked up or fuck it maybe they just didnt care!

10 years strong and still havent made 1000 posts...wow...lol

http://www.facebook.com/soulquarian

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Fri Jan-05-07 10:05 AM

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107. "RE: And now: film-geek talk on the adaptation and the film's Oscar chanc..."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          


No, I'm certain they knew people would pick it up (how could they not; it's some pretty blatant stuff). And they did it more in tribute and reverence than anything else (and I'm glad they did, because it made my filmgoing experience that much more enjoyable, because I caught most of the inside jokes and references - and there are A LOT of them).

My point is that a good sector of the filmgoing audience doesn't realize that, because they've never heard of "Dreamgirls" in the first place, and EXPECT a Motown biopic when they hear the words "loosley based upon the Supremes". To be honest, the movie exists somewhere between "loosely" based and "inspired by". Perhaps the key was that they should have made sure all publicity said "inspired by" (which gives the impression that it's still a fictional work) and not "based upon" (which gives the impression that it might be a biopic).

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2553 posts
Thu Jan-04-07 05:51 PM

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105. "RE: Outstanding!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

One of 2006's best. I hope it does well at the box office.

  

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KingMonte
Member since Feb 13th 2006
4675 posts
Mon Jan-08-07 10:30 AM

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109. "Saw this a 2nd time. Can't stop listening to the sndtk."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I get these temporary cycles of obsession.
Fortunately I am addicted to greatness.
I have Beatles, Tatantino & Stevie Wonder spells (for instances) but right now I am on a full on heterosexual Dreamgirls kick.

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Mon Jan-08-07 05:59 PM

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111. "i have seen it 3x now."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


_______________________

  

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CaptainRook
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Mon Jan-08-07 10:41 PM

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112. "I saw this movie over the weekend and"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I was very impressed. I didn't go into it with high expectations and I think that may have helped.

I thought Eddie, Jamie, and Danny did very well in their respective roles. All of the guys seemed believable in their roles.

The women, however, I thought were not as convincing, for the most part. But I didn't mind too much because all 3 of 'em are tasty eye candy. So that definitely helped. Their dialogue and acting didn't seem to be as fluent, real or believable. In many parts of the movie, it reminded me of the type of acting that you see in those Black, low budget direct to DVD type of movies, some of which are really good stories, but the actors fail to help the movie actualize it's potential because of their lack of acting skills and/or ability.

With all that said, the most amazing part of the movie was Jennifer singing "You're Gonna Love Me". THAT SHIT WAS INTENSE!!!! I was EXTREMELY impressed by that performance. The intensity and the duration of the song overwhelmed me and damn near wore me out. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like that in a movie. If she could've acted as half as well as she sung that song, she would be a lock for an Oscar. But her performance of that song, at the very least makes her worthy of an Oscar nomination. She was either holding back on the acting tip or she's been deeply hurt by somebody that she loved dearly, because that shit that came out of her was REAL!!! I wonder how many retakes they had to do of that scene. I'm sure multiple scenes and retakes of that had to wear her out.

For what it's worth, I also thought that Jennifer's acting was the best out of all the women characters, just not great (with the exception of the aformentioned singing of "You're Gonna Love Me".)

Some of the singing scenes reminded of R.Kelly and Mr. Biggs videos.

I did enjoy the movie, and it's definitely the best drama that I've seen in awhile.

It was good see that they had Loretta Devine in there to sorta give it her blessing and have a direct connection from the Broadway hit production to the transition of that production onto the big screen.

FYI: I wonder what Diana Ross thinks of this movie.

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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Aries
Member since Dec 22nd 2004
2472 posts
Mon Jan-08-07 11:25 PM

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113. "RE: I saw this movie over the weekend and"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          


>
>With all that said, the most amazing part of the movie was
>Jennifer singing "You're Gonna Love Me". THAT SHIT WAS
>INTENSE!!!! I was EXTREMELY impressed by that performance.
>The intensity and the duration of the song overwhelmed me and
>damn near wore me out. I don't think I've ever seen anything
>quite like that in a movie. If she could've acted as half as
>well as she sung that song, she would be a lock for an Oscar.
>But her performance of that song, at the very least makes her
>worthy of an Oscar nomination. She was either holding back on
>the acting tip or she's been deeply hurt by somebody that she
>loved dearly, because that shit that came out of her was
>REAL!!! I wonder how many retakes they had to do of that
>scene. I'm sure multiple scenes and retakes of that had to
>wear her out.


Damn, it seems I'm the only one who was just not impressed with this number. A whole lot of shaking does not equal great intensity nor acting to me. I swear I must have missed something...

_____________________________
<----------- That's love.

  

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CaptainRook
Charter member
4937 posts
Tue Jan-09-07 12:24 AM

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114. "Well, there are always naysayers, no matter what"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

the subject is, some will have a contrarian view. That's how it is and I guess you are filling that role.

>
>Damn, it seems I'm the only one who was just not impressed
>with this number. A whole lot of shaking does not equal great
>intensity nor acting to me. I swear I must have missed
>something...

What scene in a movie that you have seen that was more impressive than what Jennifer did in this flick? Or, at the very least, what scene have you seen that was impressive to you?

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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Aries
Member since Dec 22nd 2004
2472 posts
Tue Jan-09-07 09:14 PM

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120. "Naw...not really..."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

I loved Jennifer Hudson when she was on AI...I was impressed with her performance as a whole but something about that scene just didn't grab me. Maybe it was because I heard her version before I saw the movie and that took something away.

Overall, I just wasn't impressed with the movie. I plan on seeing it again though because my theater was full of retards who either didn't know that Dreamgirls was a musical or that musical involve singing. They ended up groaning, huffing and puffing everytime someone would break into song. That affected my enjoyability...

I really wanted to like it...After my second viewing I'll come back here and either reconfirm my displeasure or rescind my opinion.

But for right now..I thought the scene was over the top. No more, no less.

_____________________________
<----------- That's love.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Tue Jan-09-07 08:22 PM

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117. "Okay, this is the first time I've ever followed the Oscar race"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and I must say, it's a load of bullshit. It's worse than the presidential elections!

And although I love "Dreamgirls" to death, I don't think it's strong enough of a film to compete in the race. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't nominated. I sort of wish Paramount would knock it off with the massive Oscar promotions, because they're going to make themselves, the movie, and everyone else look very, very bad if "Dreamgirls" isn't nominated for Best Picture.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Jan-09-07 10:26 PM

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121. "One "plot hole" and you're ready to bail, eh? lol j/k"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

http://theenvelope.latimes.com/buzz/buzzmeter/env-buzzmeter-iframe-index,0,7071546.htmlstory?show=globes

And why would Paramount not continue to put money into the campaign for Dreamgirls? This and Babel are the horses Paramount plans to ride into the Oscar race... and despite the protestations of some OKPs, they are worthy horses...

These are the potential Best Picture nominees this year, imo:

Babel
The Departed
Dreamgirls
Little Miss Sunshine
Letters from Iwo Jima
The Queen
United 93
______________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. United 93

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Wed Jan-10-07 07:16 AM

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122. "the p**g**** thing isn't a plot hole; they explained it to me."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Condon actually fixed a lot of plot holes from the stage play, particularly involving the climax.

  

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.Mica.
Member since Apr 18th 2006
8846 posts
Sat Jan-13-07 11:50 PM

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138. "what were your plothole issues & how did th ey explain them to you?"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

+BEST BLOG EVER:
http://theworldaroundusblog.blogspot.com (updated daily!!)

+my fave okp beef: logical explanations vs lessonheads © okp KayCee

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
35461 posts
Sun Jan-14-07 12:54 PM

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141. "*spoilers*"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

The pregnancy thing, specifically know Effie didn't know she was pregnant long enough to start showing ("you're gettin' fatter all the time"). I made a post about it and asked a friend; apparently not every woman is in tune enough with her body to know she is pregnant.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Jan-12-07 02:40 AM

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133. "Forgot to add Children of Men"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Unforntunately, Code Name: The Cleaner will be robbed this year
_________________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. United 93

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sat Jan-13-07 02:49 PM

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135. "After seeing it a second time, I disagree. It's a Top 5 of the year."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

I haven't seen 5 movies better than Dreamgirls this year.

The "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" scene I'd say is one of the all-time classic scenes in the history of American movie musicals. I can't think ONCE of seeing anything where people reacted more strongly in any movie in recent memory, definitely since the millennium. The way it's filmed, lit, staged, set design, costume design, performance...it is flawless cinema. That scene ALONE gets it the nomination.

And ALL of the performances were better the second time around, in particular Jamie and Beyonce, who at first I thought were merely "good."

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sat Jan-13-07 06:55 PM

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137. "I agree that it was better the second time I saw it"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

probably because the first time we saw it, we were wondering why *insert "Dreamgirls" film actor here* wasn't acting like *insert "Dreamgirls" Broadway actor here*.

In particular Jamie Foxx.

  

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selppataei
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Sun Jan-14-07 02:37 AM

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139. "thumbs up."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i thought the direction was very creative. it was interesting to see how they conflated a lot of the motown iconography. i wonder how underhanded berry gordy was in operating tamla/motown, because targeting the music to whites is one thing, but the curtis character is on a whole other level.

i've had a crush on jennifer hudson; the whole cast did quite well, in my opinion. i wish anika had a signature song. i almost wept at "listen" and "i am telling you..."

WEPT. lol.

(it's funny that on the latest pressings of "b'day", b's realest vocal workout is the bonus track. i find it believable because i have this notion that she's singing it in part to her real-life pops.)

____________________________________________________________
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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sun Jan-14-07 12:52 PM

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140. "you should check out these books if you get a chance:"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

http://www.amazon.com/Motown-Music-Money-Sex-Power/dp/0812974689

http://www.amazon.com/Where-Did-Our-Love-Go/dp/0711995117/sr=1-1/qid=1168797071/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-2165415-8223063?ie=UTF8&s=books

Both shed a lot of light on Berry Gordy and his methods of operation.

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Sun Jan-14-07 07:45 PM

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142. "Having seen this for the 2nd time, I must say its an experience...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dreamgirls is really more than a movie.

If you are coming in to see...well...a movie with great acting,

you will probably be disappointed.

But! (c) Chris Berman

its one hell of an enjoyable experience seeing this movie.

This movie had something for pratically every fan who came to see it:

If you were an eddie murphy fan, you got see him being Eddie, funny with that classic big cheesy grin throughout the movie. If you were a Beyonce fan, you got to see her many looks,see how beautiful she was and see her perform her best and oustanding vocal performance with "Listen". If you watched the show American Idol, like I do, you got see the girl who you thought had some talent but was booted off too quickly in season 3 (the year Fantasia won), in Jennifer Hudson. And if you were just a fan of the musical itself or just a movie goer in general with curiosity about the film, you went to see it. If you were a Beyonce hater, this movie was for you because you see her play 2nd fiddle for once, by man's design in the script and God's design with the voice and breath-taking and awe inspiring peformance by Jennnifer Hudson.

I'll start off by saying again, Jamie Foxx did his best acting job in this movie. I think Jamie is a hack when it comes to acting. But in this case, he does an admirable job, being that he is really the central figure that all of the other characters revolve around. I think he held position quite well in the movie. I thought he did a better job than Eddie, IMO. Eddie just hung out in this movie, and did what Eddie does best, bring the laughs intentionally and unintentionally. I also liked Danny Glover's role, albeit small, I thought he played an effective role in the movie as well. And Anika Noni Rose did a fine job, and she has a lovely voice.

Now...to Beyonce and Jennifer....

First Beyonce, acting wise I thought she was average at best. Nothing really exciting. But I blame that on the role or directing of the movie. There wasn't enough material to get any depth with her character. Singing-wise, she did well. But I thought "Listen" was incredible. The best vocal performance of her career by FAR. It is excellent. I think this song and performance by here w/ "Listen" would have really stood out more had it not been for....

Jennifer Hudson.

You know, sometimes in life you have great performances. But there are rare times when sometimes those great performances or performers or even eclisped by something that is even greater and more phenomenal.

That is what happend when discussing Jennifer Hudson's rendition of "And I am telling You" and Beyonce's "Listen".

Shoot, the star of the whole movie is Jennifer Hudson's voice. It is just so powerful, so gut-wrenching, it hits your core when she sings. I remember her from American Idol. She could always hit those home runs with her voice, but her mid-range vocals needed work. And my God!, boy do they work now!!!! On the two times I've seen this movie, when Jennifer sings "And I Am telling You", it really affects you. If you don't feel something when she sings that, something ain't right. lol. Its awe-inspiring, god-fearing, when she sings it. I was almost forced to tears hearing it both times watching it in the theatre. Its beyond incredible.

So yeah, Dreamgirls is an experience. Was it a classic movie? No, far from it. But it was an enjoyable one. There is something there for everybody. One of the better movies I enjoyed in a long time.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Jan-15-07 01:28 AM

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143. "I agree with most of this, except for two points:"
In response to Reply # 142
Mon Jan-15-07 01:32 AM by Nukkapedia

  

          

1) While "Dreamgirls" is probably not a classic film overall, it may very well go down as a "black classic", like Luvlee was saying above.

2) Musicals generally aren't known for their good acting. For example, Richard Beymer and Natalie Wood in "West Side Story".

  

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MistaGoodBar
Member since Nov 04th 2004
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Tue Jan-16-07 11:57 AM

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145. "This version of Dreamgirls is "The Wiz" of our generation"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

There was not a weak part in the movie. I thoroughly enjoyed it

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  

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OminousEther
Member since Nov 22nd 2002
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Mon Jan-15-07 08:43 PM

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144. "Jimmy Got SOUL!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

twas a very enjoyable film.
______________________________
"It's by the grace of Allah I don't kill half of ya'll."- Ason

"These niggas got price tags on their forehead."- Saigon

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Tue Jan-16-07 04:49 PM

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147. "Diana Ross on "Dreamgirls: "Maybe I should go see it with my lawyer.""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/WinterConcert/story?id=2798141&page=1

"Diana Ross Talks About 'Dreamgirls', Secrets to Staying Power."

Jan. 16, 2007 — First with the Supremes and then as a solo artist, Diana Ross is one of those rare entertainers who has shaped American pop culture.

With her string of No. 1 hits, confidence and cutting-edge fashion sense, Diana Ross and the Supremes became the biggest and most successful American female group of the 1960s.

Ross then stepped into the limelight on her own with a string of smash solo hits, not to mention her triumphs on the silver screen. With her searing portrayal of Billie Holiday in "Lady Sings the Blues," Ross garnered an Oscar nomination for Best Actress.

'Excited' for 'Dreamgirls' Cast

Now Ross is back in the headlines, though indirectly, thanks to the hit movie "Dreamgirls," which has been called a thinly veiled history of the Supremes.

One of the film's stars, Beyonce, acknowledged she had a shrine to Ross in her trailer, and watched her movies to prepare for the role. Ross said to ABC News' Diane Sawyer on "Good Morning America" that she has not seen the movie yet.

"Maybe I should go see it with my lawyer," she joked.

Ross has refused to comment on the movie, but today she said she was "happy" for the cast.

"I've only heard what everybody else says, that it's very much my image and likeness," she said. "So if I've had an opportunity to influence any of these beautiful, talented young people, then I'm excited about it."

Secrets to Longevity in Show Business

"I Love You," Ross's first studio album in seven years, comes out today. The album is a collection of classic love songs, including "Lovely Day," "More Today Than Yesterday" and "The Look of Love."

Pointing out that many of her songs have been about love, Ross said, "I think now, especially now, it's time to say, 'I love you.'"

The 62-year-old also joked about being "the aging diva," saying that some of her makeup tricks have changed over the years.

Judging from the audience reaction during her "Good Morning America" concert, the singer's star power hasn't dimmed a bit.

Looking back on her career, Ross said she was thankful for the mentors she had who helped her along the way. She said young artists should look beyond image-making and focus on longevity.

"Well, I just think it's really important that this industry, and especially for the females, but all of us — it's show business," Ross said. "There's a business here, and it's not just about the image. It's about what goes on inside of you. It's the interior as well as the exterior."

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Jan-17-07 12:45 PM

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148. "Wait a minute - they hand out Oscars based upon GG speeches!?!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What manner of B.S. is this?!?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070117/ennew_afp/afpentertainmentusfilmglobesoscars_070117084319

'Dreamgirls' hits winning note - but still an Oscars outsider

by Rob Woollard Wed Jan 17, 3:43 AM ET

LOS ANGELES (AFP) - The uplifting musical "Dreamgirls" might have struck all the right notes at the Golden Globes but it remains an outsider in the race for
Oscars glory, experts say.
ADVERTISEMENT

"Dreamgirls" snaffled three awards at Monday's Globes in Beverly Hills, winning best musical as well as best supporting actor and actress for co-stars
Eddie Murphy and Jennifer Hudson.

But even though the Globes have come to be seen as a key indicator of likely Oscar winners, "Dreamgirls," which charts the rise of a 1960s soul group, is still behind in the race for the most coveted categories, pundits say.

Most analysts believe the Oscars best picture battle is a shoot-out between
Martin Scorsese's crime flick "The Departed" and Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu's searing cross-cultural drama "Babel".

And although "Babel" took the best dramatic picture prize at the Globes, a sentimental shift towards the long-overlooked Scorsese could see "The Departed" move to the front of the queue.

"I talk to a lot of Oscar voters every day and the buzz I get from the Academy is that it's 'The Departed' for best picture," Tom O'Neil, a columnist for the Los Angeles Times' theenvelope.com, told AFP.

While the Globes victories for "Babel" and "Dreamgirls" had given both films' Oscars hopes a lift, the Academy could pull for Scorsese, who has been passed over for an Oscar five times, he said.

"The overdue director factor is huge at the Oscars," O'Neil told AFP.

"When 'A Beautiful Mind' was under attack for sugar-coating the life-story of its hero, it still won because it was '
Ron Howard's year' and his movie won with him."

Lew Harris, editorial director for the movies.com website, agreed that "Dreamgirls" remained an outsider -- but said it was the likeliest movie to secure an upset at the Oscars.

"If there's anything that could sneak through (between 'Babel' and 'The Departed'), it's 'Dreamgirls'. If there's a surprise winner it will be that."

Harris noted that "Babel", Inarritu's harrowing drama that looks at cultural isolation, had shown unexpected staying power to land the Golden Globes.

"I think the interesting thing is that just as everybody guessed might happen, 'Babel' came out of nowhere," Harris said.

"Everybody said it was going to be 'Flags of our Fathers' or 'The Departed,' but in those last weeks, people were talking like 'Babel' could make it."

Meanwhile, the chances of "Dreamgirls" star Murphy adding an Oscar to his Golden Globe for best supporting actor may have been torpedoed by a lacklustre acceptance speech, according to O'Neil.

"The Globes are an Oscars audition," said O'Neil. "If you get up and 'wow' the audience like
Hilary Swank did a few years ago, it sends you Oscar bound.

"But if you bore them to tears, voters don't want to see a repeat of that on Oscar night."

While Hudson -- a former reality television show contestant -- wooed the audience with her breathless acceptance speech, Murphy had singularly failed to sparkle, O'Neil said.

"His acceptance speech may have seriously jeopardised his front-runner status at the Oscars. This is a flamboyant performer and we expected a flamboyant moment. It was dull, dull, dull."

Nominations for this year's Oscars will be announced on January 23 in Los Angeles by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. This year's
Academy Awards take place in Hollywood on February 25.

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Wed Jan-17-07 03:22 PM

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149. "wtf?"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

>Meanwhile, the chances of "Dreamgirls" star Murphy adding an
>Oscar to his Golden Globe for best supporting actor may have
>been torpedoed by a lacklustre acceptance speech, according to
>O'Neil.
>
>"The Globes are an Oscars audition," said O'Neil. "If you get
>up and 'wow' the audience like
>Hilary Swank did a few years ago, it sends you Oscar bound.
>
>"But if you bore them to tears, voters don't want to see a
>repeat of that on Oscar night."
>

????????????


>"His acceptance speech may have seriously jeopardised his
>front-runner status at the Oscars. This is a flamboyant
>performer and we expected a flamboyant moment. It was dull,
>dull, dull."
>

????????????

Never new that, but I don't think his performance was Oscar Worthy or worthy of a Golden Globe, IMO. Its like a long-overdue award, what they alluded to earlier in the article. Eddie is a legend, and so he is overdue an award and that is why he will win or won the Golden Globe. Because Eddie's performance in Dreamgirls does not scream "oscar-worthy" performance.

I'm cheering for Jennifer Hudson to win. I hope she wins. You never know, but we will see.

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
7723 posts
Sat Jan-20-07 01:21 AM

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151. "I wish I saw this in a crowded theater."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dreamgirls is one of those movies where if you're with a lot of people there's way more energy, which is weird because the movie never slows all the way down.

If there is any problem with this movie it would have to be that the first third of the movie wasn't nearly as good as the other two-thirds of the movies.

I'm guessing that they had to cover a lot in a short amount of time. It seemed like the plot was happening in the background during songs.

But I could definitely see this getting a Best Picture nod. And some acting nods too. Jennifer, Eddie, and Jamie really carry this movie to another level.

BTW, Jamie's performance is being slept on. His role in Dreamgirls>his role in Collateral IMO.

  

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CaptainRook
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Sun Jan-21-07 09:27 AM

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152. "Dreamgirls revisited; 2nd Thoughts..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

First of all, how did I sleep on Sharon Leal? I didn't even realize that was her at first!!!! She was the main reason I kept coming back to watch Boston Public, week after week. I must be slipping.

Jennifer Hudson's performance, 2 things:

It was not as bad as I initially thought. I mean, she did a good job, not great (still) but definitely a solid performance. Given how green she is as an actress and how dynamic the character she had to play was, she really did well. Her character had to go through the most changes in the movie and needed to show a fair amount of depth.

Her degree of difficulty was considreably higher than most of the other characters in the movie (most of the characters were pretty flat throughout the movie or at least, much flatter than Effie) and for a newbie, she did just about as well as any newbie would do in such a roll.

Jennifer Hudson's performance of "The Song" was still impressive to me, but I think that Jennifer Holliday out sang her on that song, but Jennifer Hudson outperformed Holliday on the performing of singing that song. In short, I think Holliday demonstrated greater vocal ability in performing that song than Hudson's but Hudson's managed to communicate stronger emotions in her performance of that song.

If I heard both songs on the radio, Holliday's performance would stick out to me as the better of the two; in viewing both of them perform the song, Hudson's performance was better. Holliday has the stronger voice with greater range; Hudson's performance much more theatrical in her performance.

I know Hudson will no doubt be nominated for an Oscar (her winning the Golden Globe solidified that), but in some ways, I hope she doesn't win it. Not that I'm hating on her and not that I don't think she's worthy (if Halle can get an Oscar on her limited acting ability, Jennifer is she surely worthy of an Oscar nod for Effie), but where would she go with acting after this? She's still new to this acting game and she showed strong potential for possibly becoming a great actress. If she wins an Oscar at this stage, the rest of her acting career could be anti-climatic. I'd like to see her hungry for a while longer.

I still don't understand why Dawn Lewis was cast in the movie to say absolutely nothing. She's a much better actress than that. Why put her in some dummy, fill-in type roll, that a mute could play?

Deanna apologized for the role she played in stealing Effie's song "One Night Only", but never apologized for

1) her role in not only kicking her out of the group, but
2) eliminating her historical role in forming the group, or
3) stealing her man.

As stubborn as Effie's character was made out to be, it's hard for me to believe that she would just let that shit slide without a confrontation.

One last thought: was that Sole (sexy female rapper who had 15 minutes of fame about 7-8 years ago) with Curtis (Jamie Foxx's character) on the red carpet at the Dreams' farewell event, who he introduced as Tamia Williams?


<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Sun Jan-21-07 10:39 AM

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153. "??????"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

>I know Hudson will no doubt be nominated for an Oscar (her
>winning the Golden Globe solidified that), but in some ways, I
>hope she doesn't win it. Not that I'm hating on her and not
>that I don't think she's worthy (if Halle can get an Oscar on
>her limited acting ability, Jennifer is she surely worthy of
>an Oscar nod for Effie), but where would she go with acting
>after this? She's still new to this acting game and she
>showed strong potential for possibly becoming a great actress.
> If she wins an Oscar at this stage, the rest of her acting
>career could be anti-climatic. I'd like to see her hungry for
>a while longer.
>


Who cares what happens afterwards?!

What does that have to do with here winning or not winning the Oscar right now?

Nothing.

If its here time, its her time to win it, and rightfully so.


>One last thought: was that Sole (sexy female rapper who had
>15 minutes of fame about 7-8 years ago) with Curtis (Jamie
>Foxx's character) on the red carpet at the Dreams' farewell
>event, who he introduced as Tamia Williams?
>

Naw, it wasn't Sole. Her name is Tonya Michelle Johnston.

The girl in Dreamgirls' name that played Tamia Williams is Stephanie Owens.

But they didn't look alike at all to me. *shrug*

  

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CaptainRook
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Sun Jan-21-07 10:49 AM

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154. "So I assume that..."
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

>>I know Hudson will no doubt be nominated for an Oscar (her
>>winning the Golden Globe solidified that), but in some ways,
>I
>>hope she doesn't win it. Not that I'm hating on her and not
>>that I don't think she's worthy (if Halle can get an Oscar
>on
>>her limited acting ability, Jennifer is she surely worthy of
>>an Oscar nod for Effie), but where would she go with acting
>>after this? She's still new to this acting game and she
>>showed strong potential for possibly becoming a great
>actress.
>> If she wins an Oscar at this stage, the rest of her acting
>>career could be anti-climatic. I'd like to see her hungry
>for
>>a while longer.
>>
>
>
>Who cares what happens afterwards?!
>
>What does that have to do with here winning or not winning the
>Oscar right now?
>
>Nothing.
>
>If its here time, its her time to win it, and rightfully so.
>

You are rooting for her to be awarded with an Oscar?? If so, that's fine with me; if she wins, its fine with me. But I think that her being awarded an Oscar now, while she's so green, could possibly stunt her growth as an actress and with that kill a potentially strong acting career before it even got started. But I have nothing against her being awarded an Oscar for her role as Effie.

>
>>One last thought: was that Sole (sexy female rapper who had
>>15 minutes of fame about 7-8 years ago) with Curtis (Jamie
>>Foxx's character) on the red carpet at the Dreams' farewell
>>event, who he introduced as Tamia Williams?
>>
>
>Naw, it wasn't Sole. Her name is Tonya Michelle Johnston.
>
>The girl in Dreamgirls' name that played Tamia Williams is
>Stephanie Owens.
>
>But they didn't look alike at all to me. *shrug*

Can we get pics of the two, for comparison, because I beg to differ? I'll see what I can find.


>

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Sun Jan-21-07 11:42 AM

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155. "Well..."
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

>You are rooting for her to be awarded with an Oscar?? If so,
>that's fine with me; if she wins, its fine with me.

Yes, I'm rooting for her. I've followed her career from American Idol up till now. I was floored by her performance by "an i'm telling you". I think she earned the Oscar with that.

>But I
>think that her being awarded an Oscar now, while she's so
>green, could possibly stunt her growth as an actress and with
>that kill a potentially strong acting career before it even
>got started.

I just don't understand this. If its hers to win, then she will win it.

Thats why they hand out awards from year to year.

I don't really see a career in acting or even singing for Jennifer in the future. I *hope* I'm wrong, though. Her signing with Clive Davis to a record deal has me worried.

I think this may be a once in a lifetime occurence for her, and then its a wrap.

> But I have nothing against her being awarded an
>Oscar for her role as Effie.
>

Agreed.

>>
>>>One last thought: was that Sole (sexy female rapper who
>had
>>>15 minutes of fame about 7-8 years ago) with Curtis (Jamie
>>>Foxx's character) on the red carpet at the Dreams' farewell
>>>event, who he introduced as Tamia Williams?
>>>
>>
>>Naw, it wasn't Sole. Her name is Tonya Michelle Johnston.
>>
>>The girl in Dreamgirls' name that played Tamia Williams is
>>Stephanie Owens.
>>
>>But they didn't look alike at all to me. *shrug*
>
>Can we get pics of the two, for comparison, because I beg to
>differ? I'll see what I can find.
>

Again, I don't see it all. I just looked at it again. They don't really look alike. I can see where you are coming from, though.

  

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CaptainRook
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Sun Jan-21-07 12:06 PM

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156. "I think this is our main point of difference in opinion"
In response to Reply # 155
Sun Jan-21-07 12:08 PM by CaptainRook

  

          

...right here:

>I don't really see a career in acting or even singing for
>Jennifer in the future. I *hope* I'm wrong, though. Her
>signing with Clive Davis to a record deal has me worried.
>
>I think this may be a once in a lifetime occurence for her,
>and then its a wrap.

I see her as a potentially serious talent in film. What she did with Effie as a newbie, was amazing, and with an acting coach, training, and more experience, she will definitely get better. She can develop into an awesome talent. She's got alot of things on her side:

She's young,
She's got talent,
She's a natural performer,
She has charisma, and
She's a pretty woman.

She has a lot of the elements that are needed to at least be a box office draw in the coming years but I think she could also develop into a great actress.

I don't see this acting thing being a one hit wonder deal for her with this role. I see it as a beginning to possibly much bigger things, more movies, bigger roles as her talent develops.

In short, I see her as a potential long-term talent; you apparently, see her as a one hit wonder, one and done type talent.

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Sun Jan-21-07 12:46 PM

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157. "Not quite..."
In response to Reply # 156
Sun Jan-21-07 12:48 PM by jambone

  

          

>...right here:
>
>>I don't really see a career in acting or even singing for
>>Jennifer in the future. I *hope* I'm wrong, though. Her
>>signing with Clive Davis to a record deal has me worried.
>>
>>I think this may be a once in a lifetime occurence for her,
>>and then its a wrap.
>
>I see her as a potentially serious talent in film. What she
>did with Effie as a newbie, was amazing, and with an acting
>coach, training, and more experience, she will definitely get
>better.

Again, Dreamworks was a perfect role for her,and really the entire cast.

The acting, without the music, was mediocre at best in that film.

Jennifer's performance as a singer, particulalry her voice, in the movie, is what is garnering all this attention and rightfully so.

>She can develop into an awesome talent. She's got
>alot of things on her side:
>
>She's young,
>She's got talent,
>She's a natural performer,
>She has charisma, and
>She's a pretty woman.
>

^^That doesn't automatically make you a great actress.

Beyonce has all those traits and more. Is she a great actress? No.

>She has a lot of the elements that are needed to at least be a
>box office draw in the coming years but I think she could also
>develop into a great actress.
>

She isn't a box office draw type performer. UNLESS she gets her acting chops up. And that still doesn't matter. Having acting chops and being a box-office draw, are, a lot of times, two differnt things. Look at Adam Sandler's and Don Cheadles's careers for examples.. lol

>I don't see this acting thing being a one hit wonder deal for
>her with this role. I see it as a beginning to possibly much
>bigger things, more movies, bigger roles as her talent
>develops.
>

It could be. That is nice "dream" (no pun intended).

A lot of that has to do with her. And how she approaches it.

>In short, I see her as a potential long-term talent; you
>apparently, see her as a one hit wonder, one and done type
>talent.

I don't see her as that. And I hope that isn't the case. I just won't be surprised if this turns out to be her first and only time she climbed Mt. Everest.

People weren't really floored with her awe-inspiring acting. They were floored with her awe-inspiring voice in a musical.

  

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CaptainRook
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159. "I think we primarily disagree on what holds true for the future"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

>Again, Dreamworks was a perfect role for her,and really the
>entire cast.
>
>The acting, without the music, was mediocre at best in that
>film.
>

I disagree here. Danny Glover and Jamie Foxx were very good in their roles. Granted their characters were relatively flat, especially considering their experience and acting ability, in particular, Danny Glover.

Jamie was a convincing scoundrel, although he didn't reach the level of Larry Hagman playing JR on "Dallas". His character was a believable as a "snake" and most viewers developed some level of contempt and/or dislike for "Curtis."

This was Eddie's best acting job that I've ever seen. Much of his role was still that of a comic, which of course, is more natural for him, but he showed greater depth than what I thought he was capable of.

And as previously stated, I thought Jennifer gave a solid performance.

None of these performances were great, but they were definitely better than mediocre.

>Jennifer's performance as a singer, particulalry her voice, in
>the movie, is what is garnering all this attention and
>rightfully so.
>

I don't think that this is true in and all by itself. Everybody who has any idea of what "American Idol" is, knows she can sing. It was her acting ability that surprised most people and has brought her all of these accolades. Her singing alone, by no means, is responsible for all of the attention that she has garnered. She did a respectable acting job too on a character that was not easy to play (for a newbie in particular).

>>She can develop into an awesome talent. She's got
>>alot of things on her side:
>>
>>She's young,
>>She's got talent,
>>She's a natural performer,
>>She has charisma, and
>>She's a pretty woman.
>>
>
>^^That doesn't automatically make you a great actress.
>
>Beyonce has all those traits and more. Is she a great actress?
>No.
>

I should've been more specific when I mentioned "talent". Jennifer appears to be a more natural ACTING talent; Beyonce is not. If Jennifer works at it, her natural raw talent can be developed into a seasoned veteran acting pro. Beyonce either just doesn't have it and/or is not willing to work at it.


>>She has a lot of the elements that are needed to at least be
>a
>>box office draw in the coming years but I think she could
>also
>>develop into a great actress.
>>
>
>She isn't a box office draw type performer. UNLESS she gets
>her acting chops up. And that still doesn't matter. Having
>acting chops and being a box-office draw, are, a lot of times,
>two differnt things. Look at Adam Sandler's and Don Cheadles's
>careers for examples.. lol
>

You're right about her acting chops; I agree that does need to improve to solidify her place as a box office draw. But even if her acting game never improves, she has something that Adam Sandler has and that Don Cheadle lacks: a following. People relate to and identify with Jennifer from her time on "American Idol". (Similarly, Adam Sandler has a following from his time on "SNL"). Not only does Jennifer have a following, she (like many "American Idol" alums) has a STRONG following. Almost cult-like.


>>I don't see this acting thing being a one hit wonder deal
>for
>>her with this role. I see it as a beginning to possibly
>much
>>bigger things, more movies, bigger roles as her talent
>>develops.
>>
>
>It could be. That is nice "dream" (no pun intended).
>


>A lot of that has to do with her. And how she approaches it.
>

Agreed.

Depending on how dedicated she is and how hard she's willing to work at it, this "dream" could become a reality. And that's part of the danger of her being awarded such a prestigous award, like an Oscar so soon. It could kill her work ethic and her desire to improve. Even worse, she could become one of these Diva-Divine type of chicks, thinking that she's already arrived and become a person with an inflated attitude and inflated sense of self worth and become hard to impossible to work with.



>>In short, I see her as a potential long-term talent; you
>>apparently, see her as a one hit wonder, one and done type
>>talent.
>
>I don't see her as that. And I hope that isn't the case. I
>just won't be surprised if this turns out to be her first and
>only time she climbed Mt. Everest.
>
>People weren't really floored with her awe-inspiring acting.
>They were floored with her awe-inspiring voice in a musical.
>

Anyone who went and saw this movie and was overwhelmed by her singing alone, has been living in some remote location for the past 2 years or so. Her singing ability is a given for anyone who saw her on an episode of "American Idol".

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
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Sun Jan-21-07 02:38 PM

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161. "Eh..."
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

>>Again, Dreamworks was a perfect role for her,and really the
>>entire cast.
>>
>>The acting, without the music, was mediocre at best in that
>>film.
>>
>
>I disagree here. Danny Glover and Jamie Foxx were very good
>in their roles. Granted their characters were relatively
>flat, especially considering their experience and acting
>ability, in particular, Danny Glover.
>

Danny Glove did fine. A limited role, he did fine.

Jamie did his best acting performance of his career. Which isn't saying much because he is a hack of an actor.

But Jamie did an adequate job of being the glue and central theme of this movie.

>Jamie was a convincing scoundrel, although he didn't reach the
>level of Larry Hagman playing JR on "Dallas". His character
>was a believable as a "snake" and most viewers developed some
>level of contempt and/or dislike for "Curtis."
>

Not really. The story wasn't developed enough to have that contempt. It wasn't developed enough to really feel Deena's pain. When she sang "listen" it was Beyonce singing. Not Deena. There wasn't any depth to the characters except for Effe's character really.

And that is basically the inherent flaw of the movie. The characters aren't believable and aren't viewed as such. But its a musical. Its not necessarily suppose to be that way, no? I mean you are there for the music and the performance mostly.

Everybody is viewed for what they are outside of the character.

Beyonce
Jennifer
Jamie
And definitely Eddie.

>This was Eddie's best acting job that I've ever seen.
> Much of
>his role was still that of a comic, which of course, is more
>natural for him, but he showed greater depth than what I
>thought he was capable of.

???? Did Eddie even act?? Or did he just do his SNL routines from the 80's?

And what depth was that? Having a scene where he does drugs? lol

>
>And as previously stated, I thought Jennifer gave a solid
>performance.
>
>None of these performances were great, but they were
>definitely better than mediocre.
>

They weren't good either.

>>Jennifer's performance as a singer, particulalry her voice,
>in
>>the movie, is what is garnering all this attention and
>>rightfully so.
>>
>
>I don't think that this is true in and all by itself.
>Everybody who has any idea of what "American Idol" is, knows
>she can sing.

Really? Then why did she get voted off? Why wasn't she in the top 3?

>It was her acting ability that surprised most
>people and has brought her all of these accolades. Her
>singing alone, by no means, is responsible for all of the
>attention that she has garnered.

Eh...YES it is. Her voice is the star of the movie.

When she was on American Idol she wasn't as developed vocally as she is now. In fact, Latoya London was the best vocally out of all them at that paricular time in their group.

Jennifer could always hit those home runs and long notes on Idol. But her mid-range vocals needed some work. She has that now, and is more polished. And it is evidenced in Dreamgirls. She has fully blossomed vocally now.

> She did a respectable acting
>job too on a character that was not easy to play (for a newbie
>in particular).
>

Yes she did. But her singing supersedes her acting a great deal.


>
>I should've been more specific when I mentioned "talent".
>Jennifer appears to be a more natural ACTING talent; Beyonce
>is not. If Jennifer works at it, her natural raw talent can
>be developed into a seasoned veteran acting pro. Beyonce
>either just doesn't have it and/or is not willing to work at
>it.
>

Ice Cube is a natural acting talent. He plays roles that fit him, that aren't beyond his scope. And it works.

Does that mean he is going to be the next Denzel? No.

That is what Jennifer did in Dreamgirls. But what has people raving and in awe is her gut-wrenching vocals. Not her acting. Her acting in the movie is the icing on the already deliciously tasting cake.


>
>>>She has a lot of the elements that are needed to at least
>be
>>a
>>>box office draw in the coming years but I think she could
>>also
>>>develop into a great actress.
>>>
>>
>>She isn't a box office draw type performer. UNLESS she gets
>>her acting chops up. And that still doesn't matter. Having
>>acting chops and being a box-office draw, are, a lot of
>times,
>>two differnt things. Look at Adam Sandler's and Don
>Cheadles's
>>careers for examples.. lol
>>
>
>You're right about her acting chops; I agree that does need to
>improve to solidify her place as a box office draw. But even
>if her acting game never improves, she has something that Adam
>Sandler has and that Don Cheadle lacks: a following. People
>relate to and identify with Jennifer from her time on
>"American Idol". (Similarly, Adam Sandler has a following
>from his time on "SNL"). Not only does Jennifer have a
>following, she (like many "American Idol" alums) has a STRONG
>following. Almost cult-like.
>

Cult-like? Maybe

Box-office smash-like, or profitable movie-like? NO.

>
>>>I don't see this acting thing being a one hit wonder deal
>>for
>>>her with this role. I see it as a beginning to possibly
>>much
>>>bigger things, more movies, bigger roles as her talent
>>>develops.
>>>
>>
>>It could be. That is nice "dream" (no pun intended).
>>
>
>
>>A lot of that has to do with her. And how she approaches it.
>
>>
>
>Agreed.
>
>Depending on how dedicated she is and how hard she's willing
>to work at it, this "dream" could become a reality. And
>that's part of the danger of her being awarded such a
>prestigous award, like an Oscar so soon. It could kill her
>work ethic and her desire to improve. Even worse, she could
>become one of these Diva-Divine type of chicks, thinking that
>she's already arrived and become a person with an inflated
>attitude and inflated sense of self worth and become hard to
>impossible to work with.
>

True. And she has been asked in interviews what she is going to do next, and it seems like she has no clue or is not really thinking about that right now. She is signed to Clive, but...who knows? Seems like right now, she has caught up into the hype, which is understandable with a newcomer. I hope she has a good team around her, and I hope she realizes this a business. Here today, gone tomorrow.

>
>
>>>In short, I see her as a potential long-term talent; you
>>>apparently, see her as a one hit wonder, one and done type
>>>talent.
>>
>>I don't see her as that. And I hope that isn't the case. I
>>just won't be surprised if this turns out to be her first
>and
>>only time she climbed Mt. Everest.
>>
>>People weren't really floored with her awe-inspiring acting.
>>They were floored with her awe-inspiring voice in a musical.
>>
>
>Anyone who went and saw this movie and was overwhelmed by her
>singing alone, has been living in some remote location for the
>past 2 years or so. Her singing ability is a given for anyone
>who saw her on an episode of "American Idol".
>

Again, her singing ability on American Idol was not on the level it was in the movie. That is a fact.

Her performances on American Idol was where you could see the potential of her greatness.

Her performance in DreamGirls, was her potential fulfilled.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sun Jan-21-07 01:21 PM

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158. "RE: Dreamgirls revisited; 2nd Thoughts..."
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

I feel what you're saying about Jennifer Hudson - but people were so bowled over by her performance that she's winning her award on the "wow-factor". While not a wholly perfect performance (some flat ADR lines prevent that for me), she easily dominates each scene she's in while more than holding her own with established actors like Danny Glover, Jamie Foxx, and Eddie Murphy. For a person who's never stepped onto a movie set before, she was nothing short of incredible. And I don't think there's a person on Earth who would say Jennifer Hudson is a better singer than Jennifer Holliday.

Anika Noni Rose isn't getting as much attention as she deserves, though. She was pretty friggin' fantastic too.

As far as Dawnn Lewis goes, I'm under the impression that all of her dialogue was cut (I haven't seen the script, but Melba Early speaks - briefly - in the novel). Either that, or she needs a new agent.

And Deena did none of the three things you listed. Curtis kicked her out of the group; it wasn't Deena's decision and she had qualms about it in the first place. Curtis eliminated her role in the forming of the group (he's the one who produced that promo reel), and Curtis cheated with Deena. Now, granted, Deena was a silent accomplice, but not an active participant.

I was under the impression that any hard feelings between Deena and Effie were squashed during that late night phone call Deena made from the poolhouse phone (during the "Listen" montage). Exposing Curtis' payola schemes to kill Effie's record was how Deena redeemed herself.

And the confrontation you were looking for - the "It's All Over" song doesn't qualify?

  

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CaptainRook
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Sun Jan-21-07 02:29 PM

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160. "Yeah, well I guess I was..."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

>And Deena did none of the three things you listed. Curtis
>kicked her out of the group; it wasn't Deena's decision and
>she had qualms about it in the first place. Curtis eliminated
>her role in the forming of the group (he's the one who
>produced that promo reel), and Curtis cheated with Deena. Now,
>granted, Deena was a silent accomplice, but not an active
>participant.
>
>I was under the impression that any hard feelings between
>Deena and Effie were squashed during that late night phone
>call Deena made from the poolhouse phone (during the "Listen"
>montage). Exposing Curtis' payola schemes to kill Effie's
>record was how Deena redeemed herself.
>
>And the confrontation you were looking for - the "It's All
>Over" song doesn't qualify?

looking for a cat fight.

And on the "Curtis cheated with Deena", Deena was supposed to be her girl, so there's an element of double betrayal (from Curtis (her man) and Deena (her best friend)). And to add insult to injury, not only did she (Deena) cheat with her (Effie) man, they got married. They (Curtis and Deena) are off living the good life while she's back home as a single moms, strugglin' to raise a child on public assistance. Deena stole her dream and her man and she's left with nothing and that doesn't warrant a confrontation between the two?? That was just a little hard for me to believe.

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sun Jan-21-07 02:55 PM

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162. "But Deena saved her musical career in the end"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

So all should be (somewhat) forgiven.

  

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CaptainRook
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163. "Yeah, well I think..."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

that would be the LEAST she should do, given her previous back stabbing to Effie. I call that after-the-fact guilt.

Plus, she knew that Effie should have been the lead singer for their group and she went along with herself (i.e., Deena) being the lead, eventhough she knew it wasn't right.

So, I think in real life, there would've been some type of confrontation.

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Sun Jan-21-07 04:51 PM

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164. "yeah, in real life, Deena's wig woulda been snatched"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

off her head, and it would have really been all over (that actually happened - more than once - between Diana Ross and Florence Balalrd)

...but that woulda looked kinda funny on the stage.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Jan-22-07 12:23 AM

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165. "Video clips fro mthe post-Golden Globe interviews"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-22-07 12:23 AM by Nukkapedia

  

          

http://www.hfpa.org/videogallery/index.html

Both Jennifer and Eddie's responses are priceless. Says Jennifer, when asked about whether she's going to watch the new season of "American Idol": "My sister is always there to keep me updated, and she'll text me and let me know what's going - she'll have to email me this time 'cuz roaming is just too high - but..."

LMAO. God bless that girl.

Eddie gives a shout-out to Cleavant Derricks, but no J-Hud love for Jennifer Holliday? They must have told her "don't say shit about Jennifer Holliday" beforehand, because those are usually two of the first words out of her mouth.

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Mon Jan-22-07 08:45 AM

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166. "Longo, why you set us adrift, man?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

AND "Children of Men"?

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Jan-24-07 09:55 PM

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168. ":("
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Nukkapedia
Member since Apr 16th 2006
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Wed Mar-21-07 12:39 PM

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169. "Effie White has a greater enemy than Curtis Taylor: PHOTOSHOP."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.dvdtown.com/images/displaymedia.php?id=20736&sizew=500&cat=3&type=1&page=0

(for comparison, the original image: http://img.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/060810/173023__dreamgirls_l.jpg)

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Mar-21-07 12:54 PM

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170. "hilarious."
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

fuck you.

  

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