Cmon...most of us were bigger Spidey/X-Men/Avengers fans than we were DC fans.But why?

Poll result (15 votes) Marvel has better heroes (5 votes) Vote Marvel has better villains (2 votes) Vote D.C. has really awful villains (1 votes) Vote Dr. Doom/Magneto/Galactus (2 votes) Vote D.C. is all about heroes (2 votes) Vote Stan Lee is better than D.C. (3 votes) Vote

Between Doom,Magneto,Apocalypse,Loki,Galactus,etc,Marvel's villains are usually stronger than the heroes,making for better conflict,and better stories.
__________________________________________________________
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Pictures of us
In the spring
We were so young
Are we still are we still
Scattered around on the ground in the heaped
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It doesnt matter
-The Walkmen

and why are all your options in the post tilted towards villains?

in any case, i put Luthor, Ultra Humanite, Per Degaton, Brainiac, Flash's Rogues, Arkham Asylum and all the villains in Preacher up against Magneto, Galactus, Loki, Von Doom and the Green Goblin any day

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

but still...

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

Why is Luthor evil?
Can Brainiac compete with Superman in any way?



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Pictures of us
In the spring
We were so young
Are we still are we still
Scattered around on the ground in the heaped
dry leaves

It doesnt matter
-The Walkmen

that's part of the complexity of the man

he's a businessman who is used to being the most powerful person in the world and now he's hates the fact that the world is full of clowns in tights who are more powerful than him, and he resents the people for worshipping these super-people. i think that's more interesting than your standard "world domination and enslavement of mankind" motivation.

can Braniac compete with Superman? i'd say so... particularly in his current incarnation. not necessarily on the level of brute force, but this is a living computer with access to all the information in the world. sometimes, i think he's TOO powerful

plus, i've said it before and i'll say it again: Batman's enemies are the most interesting characters in comics because they are also twisted reflections of Bats himself

i mean... i don't know if when you talk about "interesting" villains you're talking about exciting on the slugfest level, though. i have to admit that that's not so much of a priority for me these days

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

Luthor has reaped the benefits of capitalism, of mankind, yet he arbitrarily decides to hurt others.

Supes is not a human being, his uncle/parents werent killed by a robber, he was in no way sparked to become a super hero, yet he dedicates himself to a people that often times disown him.

There nice compliments.

http://nahright.com/news/wp-content/images/seanp_killwhitey_s.jpg

None of the villians you mentioned are evil either.

__________________________________________________________
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Pictures of us
In the spring
We were so young
Are we still are we still
Scattered around on the ground in the heaped
dry leaves

It doesnt matter
-The Walkmen

Therefore making them more vulnerable allowing for more interesting battles.

But I still like DC better
---
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"i'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just gonna ask where they're going and hook up with them later"
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R U My Friend:
http://www.myspace.com/722546

DC is more like a family, as everyone knows everyone else, and they all interact more like a family (I.E. jla, jsa, outsiders, teen titans all interact and switch up a lot, as they are all close).

marvel has a bunch of different families that make up a type of community (fantastic four, x-men, avengers, etc. all are more like neighbors).

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Marvel's on point when it comes to character development making their product more interesting read imo

__________________________________________________________
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Pictures of us
In the spring
We were so young
Are we still are we still
Scattered around on the ground in the heaped
dry leaves

It doesnt matter
-The Walkmen

i just got into dc, but the x-men and new avengers are just too cool.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

__________________________________________

.

http://nahright.com/news/wp-content/images/seanp_killwhitey_s.jpg

DC has tried to adapt to this by Marvelifying their heroes ever since Marvel got more popular.

Marvel's heroes are realer, more human. They started that way, and they'll always be that way.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

>DC has tried to adapt to this by Marvelifying their heroes
>ever since Marvel got more popular.

DC has actually gone the OPPOSITE route over the past couple of years.

i don't know exactly when it started happening (and i was actually gonna make a post about it)

since the 1960s, DC has to various degrees tried to make their heroes less "god-like" and more "human" in order to compete with Marvel. you could see it with Teen Titans, with the various incarnations of the Justice League (the stripped-down, "underground" version with Vibe, Vixen and Aquaman and then the hilarious, self-parody version) as well as John Byrne's Man of Steel

but now it seems DC actually *embraced* the god-like, iconic status of their characters. i think this really started with Grant Morrison's run on JLA where he worked to make explicit parallels between the JLA and the ancient pantheons of gods.

Mark Waid seems to have a lot to do with it as well, bringing back a lot of the Silver Age values. (Alan Moore also did this during his tenure at DC, even though he is credited with spawning the "dark and gritty" era of heroes)

basically, they're saying "yes, DC heroes ARE like gods. now let's explore what would happen in a world where such gods walk among men."

i think that's a much better approach, a much original approach... because the mistake a lot of people make is in thinking that the genus of Stan Lee was that he created "human" superheroes with everyday problems who bickered amongst themselves.

Stan Lee's genius was that he presented something original, that had never been seen before. i'd rather see fresh perspectives on the idea of the superhero than endless retreads of Stan Lee - at DC or at Marvel

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

is cuz when I was gettin into comics, and the era of comic books which I'm familiar with, Marvel was doin the damn thing and DC was playin catch-up.

I haven't read a comic book of either in a minute. But that's always why Marvel superheroes will hold a closer place to my heart.

Although there are a couple of DC heroes I'll always love (Batman...and for whatever reason, I always like Green Lantern).

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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as i've argued before, DC was actually dominant throughout the 1980s and 1990s, with Marvel playing catch-up (i think they've finally caught up now, though)

the problem is that Marvel fans were never aware of this very obvious fact because of Bullpen propaganda recanted over and over and over LOL

(i have to admit that this has been my beef with Marvel comics... while they revolutionized the industry in the 1960s, i think they ultimately hurt it by urging their readers to be loyal zealots, closed-minded to anything outside the Marvel universe and "Marvel-style" comics)

actually, here's an interesting article Alan Moore wrote back in 1983 where he kinda addresses the subject

"Blinded by the Hype Part 1" http://s95378737.onlinehome.us/images/hype1.pdf
"Blinded by the Hype Part 2: http://s95378737.onlinehome.us/images/hype2.pdf

(Acrobat Reader needed)

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

I'd go to my comic store and read lots of old issues, trade paperbacks, etc. in order to catch up/ get a feel for the origins.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

or maybe it's just an issue of personal preference

but like any kid who was born in the early 70s, i grew up believing that Marvel was the IT... the first and last word in what comics should be

i discovered DC in 1984 or so, and my mind was blown. it was just clear that DC's comics were way more intelligent and "mature" than almost anything Marvel was putting out at the time: Swamp Thing, Batman/Detective, All-Star Squadron, Blue Devil, Teen Titans, 'Mazing Man, Doom Patrol, etc were just miles ahead of anything at Marvel (except for X-Men, Byrne's FF, and a few others... i liked Defenders and Power Man & Iron Fist a lot, too!)

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

I read the Avengers when George Perez drew it, I read a lot of Frank Miller stuff...

I don't know, I grew up thinking Marvel was the IT too, the only difference is I still do, lol.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

i'm trying to remember any major Avengers storylines from that era, but i'm having a hard time... i liked West Coast Avengers, too

i also enjoyed Gruenwald's Captain America, Simonson's Thor and David's Hulk

i mean, i can't front like i didn't like ANY Marvel books at all... i was just a lot more interested in DC

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

What magazine was that from?

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Marvel UK, that is... which was kinda almost like its own separate company back then. they reprinted a lot of American Marvel stuff in black & white for the British audience, but they also had a whole universe of original creations that were almost independent of mainstream Marvel

anyway, i think it might have been an op/ed piece in Marvel Uk's HULK book or something

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>(i have to admit that this has been my beef with Marvel
>comics... while they revolutionized the industry in the 1960s,
>i think they ultimately hurt it by urging their readers to be
>loyal zealots, closed-minded to anything outside the Marvel
>universe and "Marvel-style" comics)

I'll have to check that article to see what exactly you're saying, but personally I love all that cheesy Bullpen stuff. I can see how it would drive someone batty, but I never felt Marvel was telling me to be a close minded loyalist zealot, but rather encouraging me to take a more active part in the comics I was reading. Just another way that Marvel felt a lot more accessible to me as a kid. Their heroes were 'human', not as Godlike or iconic as DC's, yeah, but furthermore they went that extra step to make you feel included with the people who were actually making the comics. DC felt like a company, but Marvel felt like a CLUB. With keeping Stan on board, even after he had stopped actively writing, Marvel had this sort of mascot, this smiling ambassador to the masses, and you had all the little things, like "FOOM" and "No Prizes"...God, it's corny as shit, but I love it. And I'm sure it bred a lot of fanboy close mindedness, but for me it was all just good natured comic book fun. I never forgot about the 'distinguished competition'. These days I don't have any such brand loyalties, but it's still my Marvel books that I cherish the most.

i feel you completely on the "Marvel as a club" thing

but when i see a lot of the homogeneity it spawned, and cats who won't read anything that doesn't at least *look* or *feel* like a Marvel comic... i think it did more harm than good.

i always read everything that vaguely resembled a comic, whether it was Marvel, DC, Charlton, Harvey, Archie, Fleetway, D.C. Thompson, or even JTC http://members.aol.com/monsterwax/chick.html

but i have to admit that for a while there i *was* developing a certain closed-mindedness... in fact, it was less about being closed-minded than it was just a certain autopilot where if i had a choice of what to read, i automatically screamed withotu even considering it "MAKE MINE MARVEL!!!"

LOL those were good days, though... Excelsior!

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

That was before Morrison's JLA right? Or at least around the same time. Waid and Ross really made it their point to establish the DC heroes as "Gods" in that series. In one of my American Literature courses in college, "Kingdom Come" was one of the texts and that was pretty much what we discussed in class. I was one of the few who was familiar with the series and the DC universe so I had a leg up.

~~~Ok, back to lurking...

*hangs head in shame*

but i think you might be right as citing it as the beginning because i know Grant has said that his JLA was heavily influenced by Waid

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

I'm surprised by that because I know you're DC-head. Have you read any of Ross' treasury-sized books or his new series with eth Legion of Doom? Justice's 1st issue is pretty good and Black Manta is unmasked.

~~~Ok, back to lurking...

these days i can't say that i'm loyal to any one company, but DC was my shit in the 1980s so i still have a fond place for it in my heart, especially when i see Marvelites trying to DC-bash!

in any case, i just really got back into comics heavily this past February... after being away from the scene for a full decade (because i was so alienated and sometimes sickened by the 'Image-ifying' of the whole industry in the early to mid-90s. which is ironic, because if there's any one company whose books i read above all others these days... it's Image!)

but i've been playing a lot of catch-up, mostly depending on the public library to school myself on all the stuff i've missed over the years. and for some reason, my library only has the PROSE NOVELIZATION of Kingdom Come! so i'm gonna have to shell out for it one of these days...)

i read a bunch of the other Ross stuff, though... War on Crime, Peace on Earth, etc. i was gonna pick up Justice last week, but i think i'll just wait for the trade... Ross's work functions better in the novel format anyway

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

I'm sure an oversized Kingdom Come will come out in a couple of years. I'll probably pick that up if they included all of Ross' sketches and things like that.

I was going to wait on the trade for Justice but DC is too slow.

On an unrelated note, have you picked up Kyle Baker's Nat Turner?

~~~Ok, back to lurking...

it seems they're pretty fast with anything JLA-related (even though Identity Crisis has taken a bit of a long time!)

as fort Nat Turner... HELL YEAH! i can't wait for #2!

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because now EVERYBODY is trying to explore that angle, even if for a little bit...

you got Supreme Power at Marvel (which is basically an "alternate" look at the JLA)

there was that "Supergroup" arc in Bendis's Powers

you got The Authority (though these days WildStorm is technically part of DC)

etc.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

that early Alan Moore Swamp Thing story where the JLA were just up in the satellite looking down at the puny humans as one of the 1st examples of the hero as gods.

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i remember being blown away just by the way he DESCRIBED the JLA that made me look at them in a whole different light.

hell, i think i can still even recite some of the opening passage of that issue. it went something like

"There is a house above the world where the over-people gather. There is a man who has wings like a bird. There is a man who can see across the planet and wring diamonds from its anthracite. There is a man who moves so fast that his life is an endless gallery of statues..."

yeah, that's how much that blew me away, it's probably not to easy to understand why today, but back then that kind of writing was pretty damn revolutionary.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

peter parker, etc

THEY DON'T ALWAYS WIN (and there are way too many knockoffs and XMEN in the Marvel camp)!


DC yo!

GOMD

And look at the current Avengers run and Thor
__________________________________________________________
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Pictures of us
In the spring
We were so young
Are we still are we still
Scattered around on the ground in the heaped
dry leaves

It doesnt matter
-The Walkmen

The New Avengers live in a Trumped out skyscraper, have national security clearance and Thor is a certified god.

GOMD

Throughout jr. high and high school I loved both DC and Marvel equally. I never missed an issue of X-Men, Wolverine, Batman, and Superman. However when I went away to college I realy stop reading and collecting comics. It was not until grad school did I start reading them again I was able to pick up a Batman book and with a few back issues and I felt like I was caught up, because Batman is always Batman as with most DC heros and villians. However I had no clue what was going on with the Marvel universe! There seemed to be 150 X-Books and I hated how they revamped some characters. Even now when I browse around the shop I hate how some of the Marvel heros look ( I really hate how Beast looks). Not only am I lost when it comes to Marvel...I no longer care. I still read Wolverine (don't know how he was in every Marvel book at one time) and I have read and enjoyed House of M.

I guess what this boils down to is I love comics for what they and also what they remind me of...my youth. I love the fact that DC universe for the most part is the same. I can take a break when I start reading again I feel like I am coming home with DC. Marvel no longer gives me that feeling

!sig!

The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity.

They have a *gasp* latina superheroine. You can't count latina superheroines on two hands. Them taking a risk on this is huge.

With the ultimate line Spider-Man is back to 15 and thus made accesible to younger teenage readers.

They went in depth with the origin of The 1st Black Captain America. Thus pissing off many fanboys.

They gave Wolverine an Origin.

They did Earth X then Universe X then Paradise X.

Their characters aren't a bunch of god-like mofos with unstoppable abilities. They have human characteristics that everyone can relate too.

DC wishes that had a character as relatable as Spider-Man.

DC had something going for awhile with Tim Drake. He's the first semi-relatable Robin. He has parents, school and a lack of social life.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

i mean, when you watch a James Bond film, or Indiana Jones, or Shaft and Foxy Brown... do you truly "relate" to them?

the "relatable" superhero is/was an interesting approach, but i don't by any means think that it is or should be the only one, or the model by which all superheroes should be judged

this whole "relatability" concept is kinda played, in my mind... it was innovative in the 1960s but now it's just become another formula: create an "average Joe" character + give him super powers and a costumes + throw on mundane problems month and soapy drama after month + stir briskly and refrigerate

for my money, the best book Marvel has right now is Daredevil... not because Matt Murdoch is so "relatable" but because it takes a fresh look at the superhero: here's a guy who really *wants* to do the right thing, really wants to help other people, but in a lot of ways he's *not* heroic because in order for him to keep doing what he does, he has to keep lying and implicating everybody in his world in his deception

i disagree with you about Marve; being less scared to piss off their fanboys, too... i mean, DC was the first to destroy their entire universe and completely re-structure it from the ground up, while Marvel was still clinging to the 20+ year-old stylings of Stan the Man and promising fanboys that they'd *never* change... and a few years later, they tried to do the exact same thing (with disastrous results)

all that whole thing of revamping your line every decade or so to make it more accessible to younger readers... DC did it first.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

I feel no need to "relate" to heros. When I feel in love with comics it was because it offered escapism, a world of fanasty. I don't want have some overdue bills and problems with my girl...only to pick up my comic to find that my favorite hero has the exact same problem,, but he/she also has to save the city/world. Like my man said above would James Bond be better if he was facing the problems of hair loss or needed viagra before he slept with Pussy Galore? "James I want you now", "Pussy, can you give six hours for these to kick in?"



!sig!

The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity.

>would James
>Bond be better if he was facing the problems of hair loss or
>needed viagra before he slept with Pussy Galore? "James I want
>you now", "Pussy, can you give six hours for these to kick
>in?"

actually, i think some of the more recent James Bond novels have tried to do this... with disastrous results

but the funny thing to me is that with all this talk about “relatability” i never found Marvel heroes all that relatable myself.

when i started reading Spider-Man in the late 1970s, i didn’t relate to him… i thought he was whiny, self-pitying and kinda boring with all the soap opera melodrama. (of course, when i went back and read the original Lee-Ditko-Romita stories from the 1960s, i understood how fresh and exciting this approach once was, but at the time i was like “man the fuck up!”)

the Silver Surfer was worse. as was Ben Grimm (a character i loved, btw). then there was The Hulk... a character i have ALWAYS hated even though he was incredibly popular amongst kids my age. even when i was 8 or 9 i found that whole "HULK MUST SMASH!!!" shit really boring and stupid.

when i was a teenager, i related much more to Batman (almost to the point of obsession) – a loner who seeks to fill a certain emptiness in his life, but at the same time is afraid to admit to himself that he’s really kinda afraid of the real world he pretends not to need; a man with no powers who is driven to be the best in everything he does… that was ME, to the core.

i even identified with Superman: a guy with amazing powers who has to hide behind a meek façade in order to fit in with other people, even though he knows that he really doesn’t belong and probably never will… that shit spoke to my teen angst on a deep level.

i just think that this whole idea of saying that the more day-to-day problems a character has, the more “relatable” they are.. that equation is just retarded, IMHO

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>They have a *gasp* latina superheroine. You can't count
>latina superheroines on two hands. Them taking a risk on this
>is huge.

why is that a risk, really?

>They went in depth with the origin of The 1st Black Captain
>America. Thus pissing off many fanboys.

okay

>They gave Wolverine an Origin.

yeah, and...? he was long overdue one. and it kinda sucked too, didn't it?

>They did Earth X then Universe X then Paradise X.

sounds like DC's alternate earths to me: another idea that Marvelites clowned, and then eventually copied

>Their characters aren't a bunch of god-like mofos with
>unstoppable abilities. They have human characteristics that
>everyone can relate too.

but that is just a base-line myth too, btw... DC's characters have human characteristics, too. even the allegedly god-like Superman... did you read Jeph Loeb's run? the issues with Supes' marriage to Lois and his relationship with his parents?

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

hmmmmm

>They have a *gasp* latina superheroine. You can't count
>latina superheroines on two hands. Them taking a risk on this
>is huge.
>why is that a risk, really?

It's disrupting the status quo. Anytime you create a hero (especially one with Spider powers) then you know there could be potential backlash from fanboys who live in their mother's basement.


>They gave Wolverine an Origin.
>yeah, and...? he was long overdue one. and it kinda sucked too, didn't it?

I was expecting more but then they did the whole Paradise X thing and went even more in depth.

>They did Earth X then Universe X then Paradise X.
>sounds like DC's alternate earths to me: another idea that Marvelites clowned, and then eventually copied

Point taken.

>Their characters aren't a bunch of god-like mofos with
>unstoppable abilities. They have human characteristics that
>everyone can relate too.
>but that is just a base-line myth too, btw... DC's characters have human characteristics, too. even the allegedly god-like Superman... did you read Jeph Loeb's run? the issues with Supes' marriage to Lois and his relationship with his parents?

This is a moot point right here. Your statement is correct but overall..c'mon man. You read what you read and I read what I read.

I will now point out the DC books I do read:

Nightwing
Robin
JLA
Batgirl

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

>hmmmmm
>
>>They have a *gasp* latina superheroine. You can't count
>>latina superheroines on two hands. Them taking a risk on
>this
>>is huge.
>>why is that a risk, really?
>
>It's disrupting the status quo. Anytime you create a hero
>(especially one with Spider powers) then you know there could
>be potential backlash from fanboys who live in their mother's
>basement.

as Mr Major pointed out, we've had gay superheroes, HIV-positive superheroes, handicapped superheroes, drug-addicted superheroes... is a Latina superhero really such a groundbreaking thing?

(and i don't even think that Arana is the first Latina superhero either, btw... just the first that it was played up as a gimmick)

>This is a moot point right here. Your statement is correct but
>overall..c'mon man. You read what you read and I read what I
>read.

but i read EVERYTHING (as far as i can afford to, anyway).

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>(and i don't even think that Arana is the first Latina
>superhero either, btw... just the first that it was played up
>as a gimmick)

She was a member of the Rangers and then joined the West Coast Avengers for little bit. I think she got all religious and changed her name though.

Peace,

*** MARBLES ***

(which it is, even though they don't speak Spanish)

Fire from the Justice League is also Latina

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

Dude just say you like Marvel more than DC because its obvious you read very little DC.


>They have a *gasp* latina superheroine. You can't count
>latina superheroines on two hands. Them taking a risk on this
>is huge.


Having a latina superhero is risk taking? They had a gay superhero in the 80's. They've had characters talking to God. Man please stop with that.


>>With the ultimate line Spider-Man is back to 15 and thus made
>accesible to younger teenage readers.

How? DC restarted their whole universe making it accessible to a new generation or readers. Thier WHOLE UNIVERSE.

>
>They went in depth with the origin of The 1st Black Captain
>America. Thus pissing off many fanboys.

The werent as pissed off as all the Hal Jordan fans out there.

>
>They gave Wolverine an Origin.

Yay! That truly proves how innovative they were. Telling a half-assed origin of an over exposed character.

>
>They did Earth X then Universe X then Paradise X.

So?

>
>Their characters aren't a bunch of god-like mofos with
>unstoppable abilities. They have human characteristics that
>everyone can relate too.

So?

>
>DC wishes that had a character as relatable as Spider-Man.

Super model wife, best friend's father killed and impregnated his dead ex-girlfriend, boss's astronaut son turns into a were wolf with a bow and arrow, arch-enemy dates his ederly aunt. alien symbiotic suit he got fighting in a war in another universe, grafts its self onto his hated ex-coworker and trys to kill him. Yes totally relatable to me.

>
>DC had something going for awhile with Tim Drake. He's the
>first semi-relatable Robin. He has parents, school and a lack
>of social life.

I dont even understand the point of this. You want relatable characters but these people are all superheroes. GTFOHWTBS.

>>DC wishes that had a character as relatable as Spider-Man.
>
>Super model wife, best friend's father killed and impregnated
>his dead ex-girlfriend, boss's astronaut son turns into a were
>wolf with a bow and arrow, arch-enemy dates his ederly aunt.
>alien symbiotic suit he got fighting in a war in another
>universe, grafts its self onto his hated ex-coworker and trys
>to kill him. Yes totally relatable to me.

and i totally cosign here:

>Dude just say you like Marvel more than DC because its
>obvious you read very little DC.

i've found this is a general trend amongst hardcore Marvel-heads... they really *don't* read DC before they bash. it's like they get all their arguments from a tract that's handed out at True Believer camp.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>i've found this is a general trend amongst hardcore
>Marvel-heads... they really *don't* read DC before they bash.
>it's like they get all their arguments from a tract that's
>handed out at True Believer camp.
>

Exactly. They might have read some pre-crisis stuff or a post-crisis title here or there, but most of the time they haven't read any DC stuff at all. All I'm hearing from the anti-DC heads is them regurgitating the same line "they're too God-like" which hasnt been the case for DC in over 20 years. Give me a constuctive critique of why Marvel is better than DC other than they're gods, or unrelatable, because that arguement ceased to relevant two decades ago. I'm not bashing Marvel, thre are aspects of the MU I love but for the last few years they've done very little to shake up the status quo. Most of these anti-DC arguments I'm hearing are coming from people that dont read DC books or dont consistently follow DC books, if they did they'd know how truly groundless they are.

but in the last 5 years,those books have turned to total shit.I just can't stand the DC Universe anymore.
__________________________________________________________
www.myspace.com/chamilton


Michael: George Michael, I’m sure that Egg is a very nice person. I just don’t want you spending all your money...

George Michael: Ann.

Michael: ... getting her all

have been some of the best comics of the decade

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

Before that,it was shit.

What's been good lately?
____________________
www.myspace.com/chamilton

Michael: George Michael, I’m sure that Egg is a very nice person. I just don’t want you spending all your money...

George Michael: Ann.

Michael: ... getting her all glittered up for Easter, you know?

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

Batman is dogshit though.

I must have picked up the bad issues of the Flash then.He's said the last 20 years however...I was reading then,and it wasn't great
____________________
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Michael: George Michael, I’m sure that Egg is a very nice person. I just don’t want you spending all your money...

George Michael: Ann.

Michael: ... getting her all glittered up for Easter, you know?

whether or not you thought the issues of The Flash you read were "dogshit" is largely subjective, but Major was talking about the standard Marvel arguments: when you read Flash (which i presume was sometime in the past 20 years) was Wally West "god-like and unrelatable"?

hell, personally i would say it's been WAY more than 20 years since that criticism has held any weight. i've always said that those are Silver Age-era criticisms that might have been true when Fantastic Four #1 and Amazing Fantasy #15 first dropped, but haven't held water since the late 1960s or so.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>hell, personally i would say it's been WAY more than 20 years
>since that criticism has held any weight. i've always said
>that those are Silver Age-era criticisms that might have been
>true when Fantastic Four #1 and Amazing Fantasy #15 first
>dropped, but haven't held water since the late 1960s or so.


I was playing it real conservative with the 20 years because thats arround the Crisis era. Truthfully DC has progressive for longer than that. They had to compete, so Marvelizing their characters happened way longer than 20 years ago. Yes Marvel was the first to imbue a little more humanity in their characters but people act like Superman is moving the earth out its orbit still. To me Marvel is the one thats been stagnant for the past few decades. Desperately rehashing storylines from their halcyon days decades ago. How many times are they going to rehash the Phoenix saga, Days of Future Past, Green goblin storylines? I'm not talking themes I'm talking actual storylines! And yes I give DC the same shit when I hear they're doing the same thing (killing of Wonder Woman/Nightwing/Robin/Superman/whoever).

But they constantly try and relive the AOA...Like DC tries to redo Crisis.
____________________
www.myspace.com/chamilton

Michael: George Michael, I’m sure that Egg is a very nice person. I just don’t want you spending all your money...

George Michael: Ann.

Michael: ... getting her all glittered up for Easter, you know?

and it's been 20 years

all the other smaller crossover events of the past two decades have been smaller and had specific functions (Legends created a new mythology in the post-Crisis era, Zero Hour was to iron out continuity issues, etc)

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

Legends,Zero Hour,etc were all trying(or at least in part),to duplicate Crisis.

Just the same as House of M,Onslaught,and Zero Tolerance are trying to bring back AOA
____________________
www.myspace.com/chamilton

Michael: George Michael, I’m sure that Egg is a very nice person. I just don’t want you spending all your money...

George Michael: Ann.

Michael: ... getting her all glittered up for Easter, you know?

but in the last 5 years,those books have turned to total shit.I just can't stand the DC Universe anymore.
__________________________________________________________
www.myspace.com/chamilton


Michael: George Michael, I’m sure that Egg is a very nice person. I just don’t want you spending all your money...

George Michael: Ann.

Michael: ... getting her all

>Super model wife, best friend's father killed and impregnated
>his dead ex-girlfriend, boss's astronaut son turns into a were
>wolf with a bow and arrow, arch-enemy dates his ederly aunt.
>alien symbiotic suit he got fighting in a war in another
>universe, grafts its self onto his hated ex-coworker and trys
>to kill him. Yes totally relatable to me.

__________________________________________

Other than that I dunno, I don't follow comic books *leaves post*

Save Our Sonics!
http://www.saveoursonics.org/

.

http://nahright.com/news/wp-content/images/seanp_killwhitey_s.jpg

.

Save Our Sonics!
http://www.saveoursonics.org/

More of my favorite books & characters are DC. But it's not realistic to say that every DC character/book is better than every DC character/book. Or vice versa. You have to pick & choose. Each company has made its own missteps and has its own flaws.

I've seen folks say that DC has made its characters too "god-like." When they announced that the Big 7 were going to be taking over the JLA, I was pissed. I couldn't imagine the book being any good because those characters should be able to crush any obstacle. Instead, they came with some good, solid storytelling, grabbed my interest and held it.

Peace,

*** MARBLES ***

I've just never really gotten into DC comics at all. Marvel has better characters (both heroes and villains), better stories, and is just better overall IMO.

DC comics have always seemed cheesy, hokey and lame to me.

Marvel was always my favorite as a kid but Batman is better than every superhero story ever

and that comment about the villains being sort of mirror images of bats is the best part about it and is a great point

Avy: Tyrion disrespects King Joffrey yet again

"If your life consists of NO drankin, NO drugs, NO loose booty, NO fatty foods, NO additives, NO preservatives, AND no waings.......then what the fuck you wanna live so long for, boring ass n****?" - Tay

spidey particularly....but right now, DC easily has better more interesting characters...seriously....in fact, i don't even read DC for the 'events', i just read to see who the characters interact with their environments...case in point: batgirl

she's got all kindsa issues, and not neccesarily relatable ones...eh, i can't explain it...she's more interesting as a character than ANYTHING i've seen Marvel do lately...and that's just one example..

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus