I just finished watching Ali. I do film work at my job, and I screened the film. On the scale of 1-5 I give it a 2.5. The in the fight scenes, the camera work was too shaky with some of the angles Michael Mann was trying to show. I think it would have been a better film if Spike lee done it. Will smith did a decent job, Jamie Foxx was Hilarious. The begining was unnecessary, showing shots of a Sam Cooke Concert, with him singing for about 20mins of the opening of the film. I kept thinking to myself, the movie is called Ali not Sam Cooke. While cutting to scenes of Muhammad Ali (will smith) training. It would have been better if they played the music in the background. The movie dosen't cover enough of Ali's life on screen. I think the film would have worked out better if it was a Mini-series on primetime Television. Rather than showing it on the big screen, over the Holidays to make a quick billion or 2. A lot isn't explained about Ali, Like in terms of his religion. Why did he Join the Nation of Islam? Many people do not even know that Muhammad and Malik El hajj Shabazz (Malcolm X) where good friends. Although the relationship between the two was shown,I felt this should have been expounded upon. The film did shed light on matters that I wasn't aware of. Like the Nation of Islam using Muhammad Ali as well as Muhammad not to fond of Don King. I don't know if that there is any validity to that imformation portrayed on the film. They skipped some fights, infact the greatest fight he had against Joe Fraizer in the 70's when they almost half killed each other in the ring. Like said before, the film would have worked as a Mini series, not featured film in the theaters. I wish they went a little bit more indeep with Ali's psyche, his thoughts, pains, his fears, his happiness, his truiumphs. Things were just skimmed off the surface. It was simply to short show the entire lifespan of the great Ali. Even the Relationships between his wives weren't to detailed. And they only harped upon two of his wives for the most part,(Jada Pinkett smith and Nola Gaye*marvin's daughter*). I can tell you right now, Will smith doesn't Deserve an oscar for this film. And Michael Mann Messed up this picture big time...Spike would have probably captured more of the essence of Ali, rather than capturing more so the Glory of Ali. Basically the film was like watching a heavy snow fall; while the snow looks so beautiful, it doesn't even stick to the ground because it melts to fast right before your eyes.

Why does everyone think that Spike would do a better job? He hasn't done anything worth a damn since X. I don't wanna hear that Spike didn't get the movie because he was black, that's bullshit. Michael Mann is a very qualified director, and just because Spike Lee is black doesn't mean that he should direct every film about black people. I love Spike Lee, but I don't think he would have done any better with the film, he probably would have made Ali more militant but that's it. And the film supposedly covers 10 years of time from the Liston fight in '64 to the 3 Fraizer fights, to his him being stripped of his title for not serving in the military, to the Forman fight in '74. This ten year period is undoubtedly the most important period of Ali's life.

I'm sorry but it seems to me that you're a little bitter that Spike Lee didn't get to do the picture and you had your mind already set that you weren't going to like it. The only opinion that matters to me about this movie is Ali, if it's good enough for him, then it's good enough for me. Although I'm sure I would love a movie about my life too. I also heard that this movie is about 3 hours long which is enough time to capture this part of his life.

The only thing I don't like about this movie go into it is the fact that Jon Voight is playing Howard Cosell, and I've seen scenes of him, and I'm not feeling him.

Shit that I'm feeling at this moment

Prince- The Rainbow Children
Me'Shell Ndegeocello- Peace Beyond Passion
The Roots- The Roots Come Alive & Illadelph Halflife
Miles Davis-Bitches Brew
Stevie Wonder-Innervisions

"Sing that song you bitch!!!"- Richard Pryor

"I don't need a gun, I got a microphone, and a melody or two"- Nikka Costa

"Everyone knows Republicans love this country, they just hate half the people in it"!!! (c) Jon Stewart

"I will NOT be getting my anchovy on"!!! (c)Black Thought

X-Box Live: SixSeven83

PSN: SixSeven83

Twitter: http://twitter.com/Jay6Seven83

Hey spooky electric, I am not bitter because Spike didn't direct the film. I just figured how bad would it be if spike would have still done it. I do have the right to compare and contrast. And I didn't say that Spike should have been picked because of his race or ethnicity! Christopher Nolan(memento), Martin Scorsese(raging Bull), Ted Demme (Blow), Steven Soderbergh (traffic), Hell Ang Lee(crouching tiger hidden dragon) could have directed the film. (note: none of these directors are african american). My mind is never set on how horrible a film is, I always go in with an open mind. If I'm not willing to give a film a chance I won't watch it at all, but I always going in with an open mind. I loved 'Heat' and 'The indsider' They were wonderful films done by Mann. And Like I said before, the film leaves out a lot of details. A person wouldn't who knows nothing about muhammad Ali wouldn't know that he fought frazier a second time from watching this film. It isn't mentioned until Don King (Mykelti Williamson)trys to pursuade Ali to fight fraizer for a third time. After they found out that the fight would be postponed because off an injury to George foreman before the rumble in the jungle fight. It's just the fact that a lot is missing from the movie. No matter who would have done it, it would have worked better as a miniseries.
In the deck:
A love supreme-John Coltrane
The Awakening- The Ahmad Jamal trio
Places and spaces-Donald Byrd
Emergency on planet earth- Jamiroquai
Miles Smiles- Miles Davis Quintet

One could argue that Spike Lee would have done a good job at "ALI" based on "X" alone. Indeed a lot of credit goes to Denzel Washington as well, but "X" was damn good movie.



---------------------------------------------------
The post was made possible via the Linux Operating System and one of the most powerful egos of the 21st Century.

in terms of time. Ali only covers ten years and "X" covered
about two decades.
One could also argue that Ali is a more charismatic figure across the board than Malcolm, so it's harder to capture his essence than it was for Spike to capture Malcolm's.


If anything I do, in the way of writing novels (or whatever I write) isn't about the village or the community, or about you, then it is not about anything...The best art is political & you ought to make it unquestionably political and irrevocably beautiful at the same time." ~ Toni Morrison

To accept one's past -- one's history --is not the same as drowning in it; it is learning how to use it. ~ James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time.

http://saturnchild.blogspot.com/

>Christopher Nolan(memento), Martin
>Scorsese(raging Bull), Ted Demme (Blow),
>Steven Soderbergh (traffic), Hell Ang
>Lee(crouching tiger hidden dragon) could
>have directed the film. (note:
>none of these directors are
>african american).

Hate to nitpick, but--

Christopher Nolan??? Ted Demme??? Noooo.

Iz

peace

Iz

i see someone else beat me to it!!!

"a man must dream a long time in order to act with grandeur, and dreaming is nursed in darkness." © Jean Genet

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

what has HE directed that makes you feel he would have done justice to Ali?

"a man must dream a long time in order to act with grandeur, and dreaming is nursed in darkness." © Jean Genet

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>And the
>film supposedly covers 10 years
>of time from the Liston
>fight in '64 to the
>3 Fraizer fights, to his
>him being stripped of his
>title for not serving in
>the military, to the Forman
>fight in '74. This
>ten year period is undoubtedly
>the most important period of
>Ali's life.
>
I also
>heard that this movie is
>about 3 hours long which
>is enough time to capture
>this part of his life.
>
>
>The only thing I don't like
>about this movie go into
>it is the fact that
>Jon Voight is playing Howard
>Cosell, and I've seen scenes
>of him, and I'm not
>feeling him.
>

So you just responding to what u heard and some trailer scenes or TV commercials. Maybe if u see the movie, instead of arguing a point based on commercials and trailers, she may have a valid point. Unlike yours. Are u hating on Spike???


I feel what she is saying about Spike Lee. I think Spike did a very good job on "X" and can blow up just about any biography of another person. "X" was so intense and thorough. I got her point.


"There is no darkness like Ignorance" unkown

but while ali was a powerful black figure, he was more of an entertainer, where as malcolm x's movie rightly so was more in depth than this movie will be, it seems like its more of a family entertaining movie

would have f*cked the movie up to. x was way overrated. it was off both script-wise and aesthetically. how can you make a flick about malcolm x without using betty shabazz as a source? the script was based on "one day when i was lost" co-written by james baldwin and some jewish cat who made it public he didn't like malcolm. baldwin got duped into writing that book and admitted it later. how can you make a movie and not use the man's autobiography? as for "ali", michael mann is known for making flicks that have a lot of style, but very little substance. i'm not surprised the film isn't too good.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

I thought Spikes script was based on Biography about malcolm X which was written by alex hailey? Are you sure about that??????

>I thought Spikes script was based
>on Biography about malcolm X
>which was written by alex
>hailey? Are you sure about
>that??????

i'm positive. i was a film major who had to study that flick. it was not based on the autobiography as told to alex haley. and spike never told anyone it was or he'd still be in court. there were far too many characters and scenes in that flick that weren't in the book. spike only asked betty shabazz if she and malcolm ever argued. that's it. she NEVER endorsed the film. aesthetically speaking, denzel was NOT malcolm x. malcolm was 6-4, 180 lbs, long and lanky build, reddish-mariny complexion with gray eyes. and he made a point in his autobiography to tell you he was the lightest child in his family, which is why his father favored him over the rest of his sibblings. denzel did a good acting job, but the unwritten rule of film is that if you're doing a flick on a famous person, you don't need a major star to play his role. rather, you need find the closest person who looks like him. malcolm was one of those people. unless the person looked unusual like nixon or howard cossell, you find an actor who looks closest to his image.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

but Denzel played that role PERFRECTLY. I can't state that enough. He was Malcolm. Physically you're right. I mean, facially Van Peebles bears a stronger resemblence to Malcolm X, but I am miffed he is taking on the role. He is a third-rate actor. It is rather disappointing.

I always thought that Spike Lee's film was based on the Autobiography, yet at the same time, Jahlove's story sounds familiar. From what i understand. The scene w/ the white girl at Harvard was made up and a major mis-representation of Malcolm. I have never heard or read, in all of the material i've studied, Malcolm X say there was "nothing" whites could do. Especially at that point in his life.

Oh well, I'm not dying to see Ali. I'm skeptical of the telling and a tad bit of Smith's performance. When he get's the accent he's got it. But I can still here some Fresh Prince in their. We'll see.

"A viler act than to murder a man is to sell him suicide as a virtue"
Francisco D'Anconia, "Atlas Shrugged"

"There will be many turnings along the way. It will be easy to get lost on attractive bypaths that lead nowhere. Resist deflections."
Ghandi

"Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If you are alive it isn't"
Messiah's Handbook from Richard Bach's "Illusions"

"Ain't no stoppin' this/I can't help it, I'm an optimist"
P. Diddy

"Cats are still using the same five curse words. If you take out 'shit,' 'bitch,' 'nigga,' murder,' and 'killa,' (the)mother-fuckin' record would sound like an instrumental!"
-MF Doom



"The payoff is much sweeter than the payback"
-Dave

the scene with the white girl is from the autobiography, but it wasn't done as malcolm told it. there are numerous other scenes though, too many in fact that came from the screenplay "one day when i was lost".

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

Oh well, I'm not dying to
>see Ali. I'm skeptical
>of the telling and a
>tad bit of Smith's performance.
> When he get's the
>accent he's got it.
>But I can still here
>some Fresh Prince in their.
> We'll see.

Yeah certain scenes he has the voice down pat but then he'll slip outta it and sound just like the normal Will Smith. Same w/ the acting. Pretty inconsistent and definitly not Oscar or Golden Globe worthy.

Other thoughts: The movies WAY 2 long (typical Micheal Mann as both the Insider and Heat were great flicks but coulda and shoulda been cut @ least 20-25 minutes) 2 many scenes that get extended 4 no real reason other than 2 capture emotions but its like aiiight we get it after watching the 1st 5 minutes of the same scene.

And if the movies gonna be that long then it should've @ least provided more detail and reasoning behind some of Ali's actions. Its like shit happens outta the blue 4 no real reason and isnt explained very well.

The casting was excellent and Jamie Foxx was hilarious but Jeffrey Wrights and role was wasted and he's a great actor. Paul Rodriguez doesnt have any lines in the movie that I can recall. And the 2nd half of the movie is pretty much a reinactment of When We Were Kings which is a much better movie and I wanna see again now 2 get the real deal.

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T

Didn't look like him either with his big head self....plus his hair got redder with each scene....


What I'm Feelin'Right Now:

* Sprite re-running the mid-90s freestyle commercials. (Pete Rock/CL, Grand Poob',etc.)
* That new Blaque single produced by Salaam Remy... ish's funky, say what u want to.
* MTV2.
* Coach bucket hats. (signature and leather).
* Nikka Costa.
* Starbuck's coffee.

if i'm not mistaken, the credits say "based on X- the autobiography of malcolm X as told to Alex Haley"

"would tell you it's all good but that's bullshit." Thought

____________

"If I ever run into any of you bums on the street corner, just let's pretend we never met before."

Looking at the cover right now and it states " Based upon the book "THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MALCOM X" as told to ALEX HALEY.


"There is no darkness like Ignorance" unkown

>Looking at the cover right now
>and it states " Based
>upon the book "THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY
>OF MALCOM X" as told
>to ALEX HALEY.
>
and spike got sued for that. that's one of the reasons he sold the film rights to a south african bond company. it was based on "once upon a time when i was lost." read that book and you'll see what i'm saying.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

And yes I read both

Anyway until I see it, I will withhold judgement until I do
Can't go on just one person's opinion (no offense)

-...It Has Words

_________________________
Man up

“Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”---George Carlin

true. i didn't make myself clear. "one day when i was lost" was a screenplay. the movie did use some of the autobiography, but mostly the screenplay. spike did get into legal trouble when he claimed he based the movie solely on the autobiography.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

Micheal mann's Direcot creditors from IMDB:
-------------------
1. Ali (2001)
2. Insider, The (1999)
3. Heat (1995)
4. Last of the Mohicans, The (1992)
5. L.A. Takedown (1989) (TV)
... aka L.A. Crimewave (1989) (TV)
... aka Made in L.A. (1989) (TV)
6. "Crime Story" (1986) TV Series (episode 1.19 "Top of the World (3/6/1987)")
7. Manhunter (1986)
... aka Red Dragon: The Pursuit of Hannibal Lecter (1986)
8. "Miami Vice" (1984) TV Series
9. Keep, The (1983)
10. Thief (1981)
... aka Violent Streets (1981)
11. Jericho Mile, The (1979) (TV)
12. "Vega$" (1978) TV Series
13. "Police Woman" (1974/I) TV Series
-------
Spike Lee's

1. "Blues, The" (2002) (mini) TV Series
2. Huey P. Newton Story, A (2001) (TV)
3. Bamboozled (2000)
4. Original Kings of Comedy, The (2000)
5. Summer of Sam (1999)
6. Freak (1998/I) (TV)
7. He Got Game (1998)
8. 4 Little Girls (1997)
9. Get on the Bus (1996)
10. Girl 6 (1996)
11. Lumière et compagnie (1995)
... aka Lumiere y compañía (1996) (Spain)
... aka Lumière and Company (1995)
12. Clockers (1995)
13. Crooklyn (1994)
14. Malcolm X (1992)
15. Jungle Fever (1991)
16. Mo' Better Blues (1990)
17. Do the Right Thing (1989)
18. School Daze (1988)
19. She's Gotta Have It (1986)
20. Joe's Bed-Stuy Barbershop: We Cut Heads (1983)
21. Sarah (1981)
22. Answer, The (1980)
23. Last Hustle in Brooklyn (1977)
---
Here's are the good-classic works for each director picked by *ME*

Mr. Mann (excluding Ali):

Great:
2. Insider, The (1999)

Good:
3. Heat (1995)
8. "Miami Vice" (1984) TV Series


Mr. Lee:

Good:
7. He Got Game (1998)
8. 4 Little Girls (1997)
9. Get on the Bus (1996)

GREAT:
16. Mo' Better Blues (1990)

Classic AFI 100 Material
14. Malcolm X (1992)
17. Do the Right Thing (1989)


So, if the merits were based SOLELY on work, *I'd* say Spike wins.

But it's not. Hollywood don't work like that. It's about money, influence, luck and backstabbing. And maybe vision. So Micheal Mann won on this one.

But if Ali suffers from the same type of stuff that kept Heat from being a GREAT film it will be a shame.

(If Spike got the movie and shot it on DV, or played Ali or Cosel or had Steve Harvey in it, or had Ali dating an itialian or lord forbid singing or saying it's gotta be the shoes, then.... )

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

One of the greatest American satires this decade.


http://people.unt.edu/~mmp0015/

I disagree. I thought Bamboozled was amateurish and heavy handed, and worse of all: it had no ending.

Spike swings for the fences sometimes, and strikes out. (Can someone say Crooklyn?)

But you have to admire his strikeouts none the less.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

Please do not front on Clockers!

P.S. Some of "Ali" is shot on DV.

***************************************
Official Theme Song right now:
"Hey Young World"

It's time we listen to "the message that Ruler Rick threw".
Why? Cuz it's true...

Nona Gaye

(i got a jones yall)


p.E.a.C.E,
krisAnu

Spike Lee




http://people.unt.edu/~mmp0015/

Deuce out the roof!!
Jason -Software/Web Application Developer ( Gyrodata Inc.-Houston)

AIM: BurbKnight
---------------------------------------
*faintly heard in the background* "Hey, Ramen Noodles saved my life in 2001!!!!" © local radio DJ

"Ramen Noodles go hard!!" © same DJ
---------------------------------------
Okayplayer Directory: http://theblackknight.tripod.com/okayplayer/okayplayer.html

not as fine as Jada w/ that big county booty and those healthy ta-ta's

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T

nona was the most beautiful woman in that film by far.

not to objectify women or anything, but be real with me.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

If you really loved me, you'd check out http://www.mp3.com/spirit_equality

Miscellanous Flux perform live on Megahertz (Muchmusic, Starpower Channel 23), January 18th, @ 7:00pm. Don't miss the madness!!!!! And if you ain't home, set your VCRs!

If you believe in avant garde music with soul, peep out http://www.miscflux.com

If you want to hear someone manhandle a mic, check in on DC's premier microphone mangler Head-Roc of the infamous Infinite Loop at http://www.head-roc.com

2002: The Underground Strikes Back

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>nona was the most beautiful woman
>in that film by far.
>
>
>not to objectify women or anything,
>but be real with me.
>

Not mad bruh, Just a matter of opinion. Nona doesnt do it 4 me. But Jada cute lil ass was hittin. Tight body 4 a lil shorty (and she's had a kid)

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T

she was beautiful in the film
but this chick i see on magazine covers nowadays
i don't know who she is

{where's "the things that we all do for love" nona???}


§•prana•§
§•mother profit•§


"i had a dream that all of that was fake...the fingerprints ---everythin...that u set it up...'cuz u were writin a book"..."u think me that sinister???"..."no - that good"

_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

Nona is the truth: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011213/en/imdf13122001020034a.html

I was really excited to see this movie and I couldn't wait until it came out. I enjoyed the movie but there were A LOT of things that could (and should) have been explained.

The movie picked some of the most important highlights within that ten year period and just kinda threw them together (first fight, marriage to Jada, second fight, Malcolm's death, etc.) It doesn't really explain anything. Ali's marriage to Sonji was so quick and from the way it seemed on film, it seemed like he just left without any explanation.

Now I think Will Smith did a really good job. It was kinda hard at first to really pay attention to the movie because the accent just sounded weird coming from him. But as you got into the movie, Smith started to own the character and you really begin to believe that its Ali speaking.

The direction is what fucks up the movie because nothing really flowed. You never got to know why he joined The Nation, how his character and charisma was developed (was it from his family or what?), and how he really felt about Don King. I think Will Smith did the best job he could considering what he was given to work with.

Anyway, I enjoyed it, so go check it out.


"Seems like everybody's lost their minds/ and I just might be the next one in line" - Amel Larrieux

work like you don't need the money
love like you never been hurt
dance like you do when nobody's watching--Mindstorm

"I crave more than anything truthful and intense human interaction"--el_rey

"Who loves ya baby? Nobody like Jackie-O...cook, clean, break up ya weed, and I give ya nasty throat"

"When a guy fingers a lady and then smells, licks, sucks the juice off his finger and sighs as if in heaven, she knows this is her lucky day"

I feel what's been said, and I also thought it was a bit fluffy. I had to keep asking my father to explain to me what was going on, story-wise, like how Sonny Liston really put something on his gloves to fuck up Ali's eyes...


I liked Jamie, Will did better than I expected, and most of the cast was cool (Nona Gaye was looking GORGEOUS), but I wasn't feeling Mario Van Peebles as Malcolm--he lacked the energy.

Also, my father told me that the time-sequence of the draft trial was historically inaccurate (I haven't double-checked) in that the conviction didn't come until after MLK, Jr. was shot and the first appeal was after the first Frazier fight, and that also he wasn't necessarily as broke as they made it seem, he was speaking at colleges and whatnot to earn some dough during that period.

All in all, I think its an entertaining attempt to present a part of Muhammad Ali's life for people who might not know anything about him, and the film may serve as a springboard for people to want to know more...But I also agree with the notion that it wasn't a good idea to make a bio-pic about someone who's still alive and in the public eye. "When We Were Kings" was a much better film, although it covers a shorter span--if you're at all interested in Ali, check that out...

Merry Christmas, y'all

Iz

peace

Iz

When We Were Kings = One of my favorite movies ever

I haven't seen Ali yet, but will probably go this week. I love watching anything about Ali, but it's almost like they don't need to make a movie about him because the real stuff is interesting enough. Also, there is an HBO documentary... I think it's called "Ali-Frazier 1" which is pretty damn good too.

ME

as for the Sam Cooke sequences in the beginning, I thought it set a mood
I didn't know much about Ali as I was born in '67 so I was a baby for most of his career, but I do remember seeing him on tv, fussing with Howard Cosell (btw I thought they did a wonderful makeup job on Jon Voight)
I think Will did a great job in the role, however I would have liked to see him capture more of Ali's fire in the ring. Ali's energy in a fight was so fierce that even when he was standing still you could feel it coming through the tv. The jiggly-style camera work during the fight scenes didn't bother me, because I just thought that's what it must feel like getting blasted in the head by a very large fist.

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

I didn't appreciate the totality of your argument ~ Bernie Mac

http://UrbLife.com
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I did too. I knew it would be butchered here.

Will Smith , Jamie Foxx and the dude who played Cossell deserve at least Oscar nominations. I thought all of the acting in the movie was excellent. They kept a 2+ hour movie entertaining. The historical facts were a little off, but it didn't bother me that much.

Shit happens

I'm going to see it in a couple hours, just wondered about a 10 and 12 year old.

Be back with my review

SSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Shelle-Shelle in the house

A woman is not a potted plant,
her roots bound to the confines of her house
A woman is not a potted plant,
her leaves trimmed to the contours of her sex
A woman is not a potted plant,
her branches espaliered against the fences of her race,
her country, her mother, her man, her trained blossom turning this way and that
to follow the sun of whoever feeds and waters her a woman,
is wilderness unbounded holding the future between each breath
walking the earth only because she is free and not creepervine or tree
Nor even honeysuckle or bee. -- Alice Walker


http://members.blackplanet.com/DJmuzicle

"Appreciate live music"

that's what you have to work with.

Deuce out the roof!!
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my brother didn't though..... I thought it was a good film..... of course, "When We Were Kings" was better.

Deuce out the roof!!
Jason -Software/Web Application Developer ( Gyrodata Inc.-Houston)

AIM: BurbKnight
---------------------------------------
*faintly heard in the background* "Hey, Ramen Noodles saved my life in 2001!!!!" © local radio DJ

"Ramen Noodles go hard!!" © same DJ
---------------------------------------
Okayplayer Directory: http://theblackknight.tripod.com/okayplayer/okayplayer.html

The Malcom X assasanation scene was pretty violent as well

Screw you guys...I'm goin home -Cartman

The mother of civilization, wants 2 know my occupation, home location and means of transportation. The correct combination unlocks her placenta. Ive got a cellular phone w/ a rubba antenna, own a 3 story house, drive a 4 door Ac, favorite song of all time, Mobb Deeps hit it from the back...then jet. -Ras Kass

...she said, "Do you have a car? Is your shit up 2 par?" Damn! a nigga need a resume just sittin at tha bar! -Ras Kass

Cuz bitches are like flies(why)they attract 2 the best shit. -Ras Kass

Cowards make a little cheese, then enlarge artificially, like Pamela Anderson Lee's double D's, please! I'm bangin from Belize 2 Tel Aviv in tha Red Sea racin Saddam Hussien on Kawasaki jet skies. -Ras Kass

18 willin rednecks, sendin me death threats, cuz their niece fantasize about wet sex, when I'm in her headsets. -Opio from Souls of Mischief

Tryin 2 do all I can do in this car...her mom's Jaguar -A-plus from Souls of Mischief

You think you're able 2 label the Hiero sound? You still havent found a comparable variable -Del

You live on the edge? I live on the San Andreas. -Evidence

I AINT GOT TIME 4 NO JIBBA JABBA!!!-Mr.T

altho the fight scenes can be un-nervin for small ppls


§•prana•§
§•mother profit•§


"i had a dream that all of that was fake...the fingerprints ---everythin...that u set it up...'cuz u were writin a book"..."u think me that sinister???"..."no - that good"

_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

For people that think Ali was just a good entertainer and great boxer then I think the Mann movie will disappoint. Ali was more than that to me and some of what he means to me was portrayed well in the new film. Ali is my biggest living hero but, after seeing the new movie, I don't think Spike would have made a movie about Ali that I would have liked any better than Mann's.

I was raised in Louisville and grew up with some of Ali's family. In the 70's and 80's folks in Louisville didn't really revere Ali. We had Muhammad Ali Blvd., a few photo exhibitions at the Speed Museum and that was about it. Ali didn't come to Louisville much in that time period and if he did it didn't get that much attention. Ali's cousin was my best friend and his relatives came to my high school senior gallery show. On a h.s. class field trip, someone blasted Ali about dodging the draft and my friend went off. It was then that I began to take notice of Ali.

I learned that Ali threw his Olympic gold metal in the Ohio River when he was not allowed to enter the front door of an eating establishment. They combed the river and never found the metal. I read that Ali and Malcolm X were friends, the NOI came between them and Ali mourned Malcolm's death. I learned about Ali at a time when I, too, decided to make my own way. Ali's path inspired me to leave Louisville and seek my own. Ali was proof that a Black person from Louisville (where Black folks were supposed to know their place) could defy the status quo and choose his/her destiny. Ali helped me to become the person I am today.

The thing that inspires me the most about Ali was his conviction to not be inducted into the Army...no matter what the cost. He put everything on the line to stand behind his own beliefs and that's what makes him different from other athletes, sets him apart from many living Black heroes and makes the new movie worth my $5.50 (not some televised movie). Ali deserves it. While Mann's movie is far from perfect or true it does my hometown hero justice.

For those people who want to learn more about Ali hit the books and don't expect to get all the info from a movie. When We Were Kings is even better than Ali.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"It's quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." - Roy in "Blade Runner"

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own."
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself."

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

It was entertaining but I have to say I wasn't all that impressed! I heard that Will Smith is being considered for an OSCAR for his role....I gotta disagree. All I could see on the screen was Will Smith trying to play Ali but with "X" (for example), I could feel Denzel as Malcolm....just my 2 cents.

As a writer/aspiring filmmaker myself, I know its a hard biz to try & please the masses (or "Massah's *lol*) but DAG! The movie, to my understanding, was supposed to focus on Ali refusing to go to Nam but I thought there was TOO much screen time with his relationship with Malcolm, Sam Cook singing (what was that about) and the FBI & the informant...huh?

Peace, love & bacon grease
"braidzzz"
http://members.blackplanet.com/mahoganywriter/#

******************************
"You want me to crawl? White mutha f&*#&a!!!" - Pam Grier in "Coffy"
*~* Peace, love & bacon grease *~*

Denzel felt like Malcolm to me (more than Mario) and Will was playing Ali but I wasn't feeling it as much. However, I did appreciate Will's performance.


>The movie, to my
>understanding, was supposed to focus
>on Ali refusing to go
>to Nam but I thought
>there was TOO much screen
>time with his relationship with
>Malcolm, Sam Cook singing (what
>was that about) and the
>FBI & the informant...huh?

These relationships clearly should have been more expanded, including some sort of starting point. Since I already know about Ali and Malcolm, the Sam Cook connection and the FBI, I wasn't feeling lost but I can understand other folk's confusion. Here's my what I knew before the movie:

Malcolm X: Malcolm X championed the young Clay, and told him that his victory over Sonny Liston was a prophecy. After he won, Malcolm said, "Clay is the finest Negro athlete I have ever known, the man who will mean more to his people than any athlete before him." When Malcolm split from NOI, Clay rejected him.

Sam Cook: Before producing his good friend Muhammad Ali's recording entitled I Am The Greatest, he and Malcolm X attended Ali's heavyweight bout with Sonny Liston in Miami. Contrary to many rumors, relatives maintain that Sam did not convert to Islam. However, he seemed very supportive of Malcolm and Ali, thus, Spike's use of A Change Is Gonna Come in his film, X.

The FBI: Obviously, Ali's connection to the NOI was instigated the FBI's investigation into his life. Like Malcolm X Ali was spied on and harassed by COINTELPRO, an acronym for CounterIntelligence Program, which was established by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). In the words of J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI's director in the 1960s, COINTELPRO was designed to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" groups (or individuals) whose views the FBI considered threatening to the status quo. There has been rumors of collaboration or cooperation between the FBI and the NOI for several years, including the use of FBI informants in the NOI ranks (known by the leaders of NOI) to track so-called suspects such as Muhammad Ali.

Now that I think about it Mann could have done a lot more to get this info into the film. Perhaps he didn't care.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"It's quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." - Roy in "Blade Runner"

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own."
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself."

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

nettrice, as usual you shed light where there's darkness. may i join in and expound on some of your points?

>Denzel felt like Malcolm to me
>(more than Mario) and Will
>was playing Ali but I
>wasn't feeling it as much.
> However, I did appreciate
>Will's performance.

now, i don't make a secret of the fact that although denzel did a great acting job, he wasn't the man for the role of x. (didn't physically fit the role) but if any man could play elijah, al freeman was the man for the part. wrong accent in x, though. elijah was a man from georgia and he SPOKE like a man from george. spike had him speaking like ghandi. mario look more like malcolm, but as someone up here said, he's a third-rate actor. mann could've found someone else with more acting talent.

>>The movie, to my
>>understanding, was supposed to focus
>>on Ali refusing to go
>>to Nam but I thought
>>there was TOO much screen
>>time with his relationship with
>>Malcolm, Sam Cook singing (what
>>was that about) and the
>>FBI & the informant...huh?
>
>These relationships clearly should have been
>more expanded, including some sort
>of starting point. Since
>I already know about Ali
>and Malcolm, the Sam Cook
>connection and the FBI, I
>wasn't feeling lost but I
>can understand other folk's confusion.
> Here's my what I
>knew before the movie:
>
>Malcolm X: Malcolm X championed the
>young Clay, and told him
>that his victory over Sonny
>Liston was a prophecy. After
>he won, Malcolm said, "Clay
>is the finest Negro athlete
>I have ever known, the
>man who will mean more
>to his people than any
>athlete before him." When Malcolm
>split from NOI, Clay rejected
>him.

true nettrice. but actually, it was malcolm who taught ali the art of psychological warefare. ali was was defly afraid of liston all the way up to the fight. every fighter who faced liston left the ring on his back. but malcolm convinced ali to get inside liston's head because liston had yet to be challenged. remember, liston was around before there was a george foreman or mike tyson and we all know how ali got into foreman's head in zaire. and ali did turn on him. just read "muhammad ali - his life and times".
>
>Sam Cook: Before producing his good
>friend Muhammad Ali's recording entitled
>I Am The Greatest, he
>and Malcolm X attended Ali's
>heavyweight bout with Sonny Liston
>in Miami. Contrary to many
>rumors, relatives maintain that Sam
>did not convert to Islam.
>However, he seemed very supportive
>of Malcolm and Ali,
>thus, Spike's use of A
>Change Is Gonna Come in
>his film, X.

true, sam cooke wasn't an undercover muslim, but he was a strong financial supporter of malcolm and the nation. cooke believed the malcolm's way was the best way to achieve freedom in america. sam had been subjected to having to sing & dance naked in front of bigots who kidnapped both him and soloman burke from their hotel rooms in alabama. and as burke said, cooke was never the same after that. check out "nowhere to run". i forget the name of the author right at this moment.
>
>The FBI: Obviously, Ali's connection to
>the NOI was instigated the
>FBI's investigation into his life.
> Like Malcolm X Ali
>was spied on and harassed
>by COINTELPRO, an acronym for
>CounterIntelligence Program, which was established
>by the Federal Bureau of
>Investigation (FBI). In the words
>of J. Edgar Hoover, the
>FBI's director in the 1960s,
>COINTELPRO was designed to "expose,
>disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise
>neutralize" groups (or individuals) whose
>views the FBI considered threatening
>to the status quo.
>There has been rumors of
>collaboration or cooperation between the
>FBI and the NOI for
>several years, including the use
>of FBI informants in the
>NOI ranks (known by the
>leaders of NOI) to track
>so-called suspects such as Muhammad
>Ali.

co-sign. no need to put my two cents in here, nettrice. you handled your biz as usual.
>
>Now that I think about it
>Mann could have done a
>lot more to get this
>info into the film.
>Perhaps he didn't care.

mann isn't known for making deep films or tv shows. he prefers flash over substance.
>

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

>true nettrice. but actually, it was
>malcolm who taught ali the
>art of psychological warefare.

Agreed but none of this was clarified in the movie and people who don't read this and don't read up in books will miss this very significant connection. Also, Ali came from a "race" family and a family torn apart by distinctions of color (something many old African American families can relate to). The Clay surname comes from Henry Clay, a Kentucky slave owner and ancestor (also signed the Declaration of Independence). This is what Ali was defying when he left his birth name behind. Ali said that having the Clay name was nothing to be proud of and that is what hurt his family. Malcolm represented a lot of what the young Clay wanted to become and he guided Clay to Islam.

>mann isn't known for making deep
>films or tv shows.
>he prefers flash over substance.

That's the most disappointing thing about the new movie. It comes down to value and how people see our heroes and sheroes. Are they made-for-tv movies or real docu-dramas that reveal truth? Usually it's the former and we just don't have enough creative control over our "myths". Most people will not did deeper and take the new movie on face value.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"It's quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." - Roy in "Blade Runner"

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own."
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself."

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

i missed the first 30 minutes or so & it was groovy

no one knows WHAT spike would have done to the ali biopic...NO ONE...spike is not know for thoroughness as a strong point...& was everyone entirely satisfied w/X???...not i & because of that i cannot say that anyone could or should expect to be when it's a factual depiction u're lookin for

those endin camera shots {of the fight} at the rumble in the jungle were LIKE that...they were faaaaantastic...will was beautiful...& that draggy ali-inspired inflection wore on me after a while...i don't know what ppl were expectin but i don't feel cheated at all

i'm goin to see it again & i'm goin to like it again





§•prana•§
§•mother profit•§


"i had a dream that all of that was fake...the fingerprints ---everythin...that u set it up...'cuz u were writin a book"..."u think me that sinister???"..."no - that good"

_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

i dunno about you all, but for some reason when i saw the "new" Elijah Mohammed and Malcolm X, i felt funny... like only Denzel and the other funny talkin dude should have played them... i know it would cost big bucks to have them in the film, but everytime i saw those "fake" guys, i just felt like laughing at them dudes.

anyways, i didn't want to see the movie anyway, but when i was watching it, it interested me. i didn't know that him and Malcolm were friends and i also didn't know about his infidelities.
but overall, i enjoyed this movie.. and i loved the camera angles both during the fight scenes and also when Malcolm was by the window talking to Ali and the perspective was as if you were looking out the window from right next to his chin... amazing.. also the shots when Ali was running through Africa were pretty good too...

also, i didn't see the big deal with the sex scenes. Will Smith said he wouldn't do the sex scene with anyone else besides his wife.. i really didn't understand what the problem was with that... but oh well..

anyways... it was a good 9 bucks spent

damn, u haven't seen it yet?? http://www.dangelosangels.com
(all new and improved)

-----Quotes-----

"you wondered how come the album was late, i was giving you time to get the last one straight"
-rakim, 1988 (quoted by D'Angelo, Jan 25, 2000.. the day soul music reawakened)

--------
twitter: /tynie626

>i dunno about you all, but
>for some reason when i
>saw the "new" Elijah Mohammed
>and Malcolm X, i felt
>funny... like only Denzel and
>the other funny talkin dude
>should have played them

i found myself thinkin that way as well...HWVER i see that on two fronts...#1 the actor's in spike's depiction were that good & #2 there hasn't been enuff malcolm on anyone's screen to measure anyone else's future interpretation by

i didn't know
>that him and Malcolm were
>friends and i also didn't
>know about his infidelities.

well i knew of the infidelities but i didn't know that malcolm & muhammad were as tight as they were...but u know what really struck me???...is the scene when muhammad found out malcolm had been killed & all the ppl who were stoppin in their tracks in the streets...i'd NEVER seen that happen in ANYONE'S film about ANYTHING...i never knew malcolm's death polarized ppl like that

cuz i'd never SEEN it

_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

If you really loved me, you'd check out http://www.mp3.com/spirit_equality

9 out of 10 porn stars have the enthusiasm needed to rehearse after checking http://www.miscflux.com
(1 out of 10, sadly, prefer listening to Britney Spears instead)

"I draw a sharp distinction between magic and religion. I see them almost as the spiritual parallels of say, fascism and anarchy in the political arena. To me, politics does not divide into right-wing and left-wing, in that capitalism and communism are both just two different ways of ordering industrial societies, which have not been around for a vast amount of time and probably won't be around for a lot longer." - Alan Moore, comics writer and interesting fellow

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

or even entirely accurate


§•prana•§
§•mother profit•§


"i had a dream that all of that was fake...the fingerprints ---everythin...that u set it up...'cuz u were writin a book"..."u think me that sinister???"..."no - that good"

_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

No Depth to the film....
It did not expound on Ali enough when the movie was supposed to be about Ali.

Why did he join the Nation and what lead to that calling.??

Why did he have trouble (besides the obvious) with keeping his wives???

What made his so flamboyant??

Not enough depth and no real character development. (Lord of the Rings had more character build up)

It was a glossy view of Ali..
To much focus on his fights.. Not enough focus on his politics and passions.. Why did the people love him so much..

Jess this film could have been so much more...

A aggree Spike might have done better..

peace...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

That HBO or showtime movie on Ali was better then this.

When We were Kings blows this away.

Spike is doing the Jack Johnson autiobiography.

Malcolm X is a classic, now that can not be denied.

Spike will go down as one of the greatest American filmakers of our time.

Imagine film without Spike.

Bamboozled is one of the greatest American satires in the last decade. Already this fill is studied throughout higer education.

Does a film have to have an ending?

Heavyhanded, um is not everything Spilsburg does about the Jews heavyhanded.

Stick to Baby Boy, Two can play this game, Beverely Hood, Baller Blockin', Prision Song.






http://people.unt.edu/~mmp0015/

That can be denied. Nothing makes your opinion any more authoritative than anyone else's except for your belonging to an organization with some influence.

I mean, if you belong to any of those organizations then that can make some difference.

thas all i have to say about thaatt.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

Thank God I did not waste my money. I don't care for Will Smith and I especially don't care for Ali. All the hell he gave Al Frazier, please!!!!!!!!!!!!

All the hell
>he gave Al Frazier, please!!!!!!!!!!!!

who the fuck is al frazier?

I saw it yesterday and I liked it. And I am a filmmaker and I was impressed. I also like that they did not do movie fighting in that movie. The only thing I wanted to see, was the coverage of his daughter. But they showed it on a political aspect, instead of the entire life of Ali, they stuck to the politics. So it was pretty good. I think Will was pretty good and he did the character justice. ANd of course my favorite actor in the whole wide world Jeffery Wright. ANd I think that they did a great version of the assasination of Malcom X, I think that death scene was a little bit better than the one in the Malcom X movie. But that is just my opinion. I liked it, I t was pretty good.
C_Jon a.k.a Chanell Jontay

"My reality has gone and still is going further than my dreams, why because I lost my will....now I am free!!!!!!!!!!!!!"_Chanell Jontay

"When crazy things happen we must understand that there is a reason attached to it, and it may not make sense now, but it definitely will make sense in the end....."- Chanell Jontay



"Josie and the Pussy Cats made so much sense, in refrence to the World of pop Music "
C_Jon


december is :

here, good God where did 2001 go? **************************************
Soul-Sista Inc. is dead. I (C_Jon) took her off of life support (thank God ), she did not need to suffer anymore.If it is meant to be she will be ressurrected and sent back to us, if not then she was a learning process to give us understanding for the future.

For the purpose of Soul-Sista was for "Soul-Sistas" to come together as one woman and birth a new spirit through our friendship.

"we(the six members of Soul-Sista Inc) were never Soul-Sista from the start just a catch phrase and a bunch of brainwashed ,miltant girls with untested ideas for unity within black women...unfortunately all we did was use this as a mask (James Baldwin calls it a gimmick, in the fire next time )to help support the Angry black woman with in us)So the minute the chips fell down and honesty (the key for which we supposedly stood for)was brought to the table(by myself) wasn't nobody woman enough to take the heat. For they could point the finger, but when it got pointed back ...their fear showed...proving that they weren't really "real" enough at all to run this thing."

"Before there can ever be a "Soul-Sista Inc" we must first deny ourselves and submit to a new found will. We must be totally upfront , honest and free with ourselves collectively and individually,accepting everyones' diversity and everyones' style and allowing that diversity to be the ingredient to make up the ultimate whole and the ultimate structure of Soul-Sista Inc herself ... At and by any means necessary... For doing things from the soul and as a soul family requires no gimmicks, no facades, no set images. but an empire built on liberty and the natural collaboration of the group members soul becoming one."

***********************************
"excuse all my grammatical and factual errors i am too lazy to check this over"_ Mosaic

****************************************

"It will be agreat day for America, incidentally,when we eat bread again, instead of the blasphemous and tasteless foam rubber that we have substituted for it."_ James Baldwin

****************************************
" I move the motion that we nominate Ledisi to be the next featured Okay Artist, who seconds?"_ C_Jon
****************************************
"Take time, to get away, free your mind, and fly away" _ Ledisi
**************************************

Its interesting that the majority of the folks that posted did not even bother to see the movie. But anyhows some random thoughts are
-Mario Van Peebles as Malcolm. Bad Decision. The actor that should have played Malcolm was in Ali. Jeffrey Wright. He is a lil short but all u need is camera tricks.
-Will did a great job. I dont like him personally but he shined in this joint
-Jamie Foxx was hilarious.
-The fight scenes are really well done. Watching them is a treat. Im a huge boxing head and Will had Ali's style down, Liston, Foreman, and Ellis's styles were all authentic.
-Ferdie Pacheco (P. Rodriguez) was really underused.
-Jon Voight did a great job as Cosell
-Spike would have fucked up the film. Mos Def probably would have played Ali and screamed "wake up" in the middle of The Thrilla in Manilla
-Nona Gay is having my baby.
-Of Course When we Where Kings was better it was a documentry dumb asses. It was actually Ali and Foreman, not a recreation.

----------------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

*Try to take me for granted /ill take u off this planet - Jay-Z

Bit$%es is full of shit, thats why they eyes brown - me

*Please excuse any offensive, inaccurate, racist, or homophobic statements/and or behavior from the above poster. He is on heroin.

This post is for the children.

------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

will smith was excellent, as was jaimie foxx. after this movie and 'on any given sunday', jaimie foxx needs more serious roles, the guy can act his ass off.

i like how they showed both ali's good and bad sides. they did not make him a saint-like figure as so many do.

excellent way of showing and not telling...
-when he beat sonny liston, they did not hollywoodize the fight. i thought they would play out the eyes thing to make it seem like ali was at a great disadvantage. they didn't focus on it too much which was good. some people even missed it when they put shit on his gloves. if i didn't know about it, i might have been oblivious.
-also against sonny liston, the look of fear that smith gave when liston said he was gonna kick his ass. that showed how young ali was and how most of his talking was done out of fear.
-the scene where he's running in africa. to me, it was when he realized how much an impact he is making to people and how people hold him up on a pedistool over everyone else. this was a great scene.


the only thing i didn't like was how ali's 'weakness' for women was once again brought up. by calling it a weakness, it makes him look like a victim. the man wasn't 'weak' he was a womanizer, let's get past that.



**************************************
wear clean drawz
everyday
cauze things may fall
the wrong way
you'll be lying there
waiting for an amublance
and your underwear
gots holes and shit(c)the coup

dude that played howard cosell (jon voight)...that guy deserves some kind of award, a gift basket, a pat on the back, something.









**************************************
wear clean drawz
everyday
cauze things may fall
the wrong way
you'll be lying there
waiting for an amublance
and your underwear
gots holes and shit(c)the coup

>excellent way of showing and not
>telling...
>--also against sonny liston, the look
>of fear that smith gave
>when liston said he was
>gonna kick his ass. that
>showed how young ali was
>and how most of his
>talking was done out of
>fear.

Very good point. Liston said Im gonna Fuck u up. It shut up Ali. He was also very quiet when they were sentencing him. He shook all those cops hands, like yea im patronizing yall mufukas, because im better than yall.

>-the scene where he's running in
>africa. to me, it was
>when he realized how much
>an impact he is making
>to people and how people
>hold him up on a
>pedistool over everyone else. this
>was a great scene.

Good point. Will had a period of about 10 minutes where he was silent and just admiring the folks. There was alot of unspoken shit in this movie. Spike is not real good at that stuff. He beats u over the head with things sometimes.


----------------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

*Try to take me for granted /ill take u off this planet - Jay-Z

Bit$%es is full of shit, thats why they eyes brown - me

*Please excuse any offensive, inaccurate, racist, or homophobic statements/and or behavior from the above poster. He is on heroin.

This post is for the children.

------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

good movie i don't know what the big fuss is too many people was dogging the movie out

Damn if I know?
"the ghetto code"

I did not leave as elated as I thought I would be...Smith's performance improved as the movie went on...but there were too many scenes w/o dialogue for a man known for his gift of gab! The fight scenes were way too long....Jada did an outstanding job...Jamie Foxx best supporting actor in my view...he almost stole the show from Will....I am still not clear on how they met...a dude you don't knwo just walks up in your yard and becomes your trainer? ....I thought it'd have been nice to have had Laila referred to at some point...even her birth, to show his legacy continuing in some way....Ali almost had a "Why do fools fall in love?" thing going on there between Khalila and Veronica...I hate,hate,hate to say it, but this is not Oscar material...it's not Will's fault...they didn't give him enough substance to work with.



What I'm Feelin'Right Now:

* Sprite re-running the mid-90s freestyle commercials. (Pete Rock/CL, Grand Poob',etc.)
* That new Blaque single produced by Salaam Remy... ish's funky, say what u want to.
* MTV2.
* Coach bucket hats. (signature and leather).
* Nikka Costa.
* Starbuck's coffee.

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

Jamie Foxx was not his trainer. He was like a corner guru hype man guy. The white guy Angelo Dundee was.......and also, It would not have made sense to mention Laila Ali. The movie ended in 1974 and Laila wasnt born then. She was the child of Lonne (the woman he met in Africa)
----------------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

*Try to take me for granted /ill take u off this planet - Jay-Z

Bit$%es is full of shit, thats why they eyes brown - me

*Please excuse any offensive, inaccurate, racist, or homophobic statements/and or behavior from the above poster. He is on heroin.

This post is for the children.

------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

>She was the child
>of Lonne (the woman he
>met in Africa)

Laila Ali is the child of Veronica, who also had Hanna. He met Lonnie Ali in the US back in 1963, when she was a little girl.

>----------------------------------------
>Now lets take a moment to
>ponder the depth, brilliance, and
>emotional gravity of Mr Reds
>above statement.
>
>*Try to take me for granted
>/ill take u off this
>planet - Jay-Z
>
>Bit$%es is full of shit, thats
>why they eyes brown -
>me
>
>*Please excuse any offensive, inaccurate, racist,
>or homophobic statements/and or behavior
>from the above poster.
>He is on heroin.
>
>This post is for the children.
>


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"It's quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." - Roy in "Blade Runner"

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own."
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself."

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

Sorry i knew it she was supposed to be the chick he met in Africa. She is the youngest daughter.
----------------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

*Try to take me for granted /ill take u off this planet - Jay-Z

Bit$%es is full of shit, thats why they eyes brown - me

*Please excuse any offensive, inaccurate, racist, or homophobic statements/and or behavior from the above poster. He is on heroin.

This post is for the children.

------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

I thought it was pretty cut. I would have cut between 20-30 minutes out (most prominently the fight with the no-name white boxer...that segment was unneeded...one shot of Ali pummeling his ass and being declared the winner would have sufficed).

also, I didn't feel that Ali's abandonment of Nona gaye for Michael Michelle was fleshed out enough. It looked like Ali had one argument with nona and up and left. The chemistry with Michelle wasn't strong enough to convince me that he was drawn enough by her to leave his current wife. I don't know how it happened in real life, but they could have dramatized that better.

i also had a problem with the in focus/out of focus camera technique. that distracted from the story more than it enhanced it.

no other real specific criticisms. i felt will did a respectable job as ali, particularly in the scene where he reacted to hearing about malcolm's murder. mario van peebles also did a respectable job as malcolm, particularly his '4 Little Girls' speech.

i might post more later...

this movie is worth seeing though. go check it out.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

If you really loved me, you'd check out http://www.mp3.com/spirit_equality

Miscellanous Flux perform live on Megahertz (Muchmusic, Starpower Channel 23), January 18th, @ 7:00pm. Don't miss the madness!!!!! And if you ain't home, set your VCRs!

If you believe in avant garde music with soul, peep out http://www.miscflux.com

If you want to hear someone manhandle a mic, check in on DC's premier microphone mangler Head-Roc of the infamous Infinite Loop at http://www.head-roc.com

2002: The Underground Strikes Back

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

There's not much folks haven't said, but I have one thing in particular to point out that will shoot this Mann vs. Spike shit down. Let me break it down so it will forever be BROKE.

The scene when Ali finds out of Malcolm X's death, what song starts playing? "Change is gonna come"! I can just see Mann freaking out not knowing what the hell to do, grabbing X and biting Spike's shit. To make matters worse though, Spike's use of this song was particularly brilliant for its place in the movie, and Sam Cooke's relationship with X. But, what does Mann do to eff up the moment? He uses Al Green's version of the song!! What the...? Idiot.

To illustrate why Mann is a fuck up...In the scene where Ali beats Quarry (sp?) this is obviously a turning point in the film. But, again, what song does he play? Another cheesy creation by R. mothaeffin Kelly. Idiot.

And folks who think Spike beats you over the head with stuff...Well, if shit like American Pie and Planet of the Apes weren't topping out in the box office he could assume his audiences were a bit smarter.

Overall, Will did an excellent job with what he had to work with. He needs to abandon that MIB shit and stick with substance. He'll grow as an actor. And since this was a nearly all-Black cast I would encourage everyone to spend some money and see it.

*********************************
What the hell is the point of a long ass sig?

stop it already!!!!!

Are you kidding? Mann's a fucking brilliant film director. You dogg on him for his choice of one song during one scene of one film? You're a moron. Ali was presented with an extremely elegant, yet hard-hitting (at times), visual style. I doubt any director could have pulled off this film as well as Mann did. We should be praising him at this point, folks.

earlier today...it was good. i came into the movie without any expectations..and i got what i wanted. Will did a really good job as ALI...Ali is a living legend so to speak so matter how good or how thorough an actor is with bringing him to the silver screen, hell never DO an amazing job seeing as though the person is still alive and STILL surrounded in myth.

Will did a really good job....he gave us the essence of ali as a young man in that respect, he nailed it.

Jada was very good as Sonji Roi--she was exactly as she was described to me by my parents and folk who KNEW about Ali: very headstrong and not submitting to anyone. jada didnt have much to work with, but she did a good job with what she had. she usually is hit or miss in A LOT of her films, but she hit it this time.

Nona Gaye=they could have gone a little deeper with why Ali left her for Porsche. i dont care what yall say Nona is the shit...i liked the fact that her character was headstrong and questioned how Ali's career was being managed. they could have shown more of her in the film.

Michael Michele was Veronica Porsche--basically a cameo since she was only in it for like 10 minutes....like spirit, i wasnt feeling their chemistry at all.

jaime foxx, jeffrey wright, paul rodriguez were all wasted as was ron silver as angelo dundee.

i liked how the movie was shot but the camera angles when ali was in the ring were disturbing to me and just annoying as hell period. mann coulda come better than that.

the movie was 20-30 minutes too long...after X was assassinated, it was slow and dragged in various parts i was falling sleep at those times.

mario van peebles as X: he was okay....i still dotn think he's that great of an actor but he was accomplished in his role. the speech he gave looking out the window in Ali's hotel room was nice....

will should get nominated for an oscar and golden globe but i doubt hell win....

but it was a decent movie....if you didnt like it, go see the documentaries on Ali. this is basically a hollywood movie, and hollywood will NEVER get shit right on black icons.

Ryan



Illusion is the first of all pleasures.
--Oscar Wilde

They strike one, above all, as giving no account of themselves in any terms already consecrated by human use; to this inarticulate state they probably form, collectively, the most unprecedented of monuments; abysmal the mystery of what they think, what they feel, what they want, what they suppose themselves to be saying.
--Henry James

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

jaime foxx, jeffrey wright, paul rodriguez were all wasted as was ron silver as angelo dundee.

holla.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

I was surprised at how little his character was developed, especially since he's such a good actor.

mario sucked as malcolm, but he tried to capture the energy. I kept thinking about how good denzel was at portraying malcolm whenever he was on screen...

jamie foxx played the hell out of his character, though. I definitely think he deserves a nomination for best supporting actor.


i survive on intimacy & tomorrow
that's all i've got goin ~ Ntozake Shange

If anything I do, in the way of writing novels (or whatever I write) isn't about the village or the community, or about you, then it is not about anything...The best art is political & you ought to make it unquestionably political and irrevocably beautiful at the same time." ~ Toni Morrison

To accept one's past -- one's history --is not the same as drowning in it; it is learning how to use it. ~ James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time.

http://saturnchild.blogspot.com/

I agree with those who say Mann is heavy on style over substance because that definitely comes across with this film. The most problematic part of it is when Ali goes to Africa for The Rumble (which I argue is Ali's greatest fight), as it feels like either editing or a too-brief script make this part of the movie feel like a made-for-TV joint.

But for me personally, since Ali is one of my personal heroes, I enjoyed the film on the whole despite Mann's brevity in terms of information. When We Were Kings is better for factual info on The Rumble, but the sequence where Ali runs with the kids through the streets and pauses at the sight of his picture drawn on a wall by a child worked for me. Mann invests heavily on the idea of Ali as a myth and seems to argue that his trip to Africa made him greater than he already was. What can I say but being an Ali "fan," this worked for me.

Other than that, it was interesting to watch Mann, a white director, disclose info I didn't get anywhere else that Ali and X were friends.

Will subsumed enough of Ali's persona to make it work for me, except during his speech to the reporters about the VC. Cool beans.