By Jonathan Safran Foer.

For those who haven't heard, Pete has been encouraging a number of us to read this book and several of us have taken him up on the suggestion.

I think the intention is to have a discussion about the book, so I'm going to only give a brief synopsis and my very general comments about it, and I hope that others who have read it will sharpen the focus of the discussion.

Everything is Illuminated is the story of a young man's (named Jonathan Safran Foer) trip to a small town the Ukraine in search of the people who helped save his grandfather from the Nazis, told from several perspectives: First, from the perspective of his impromptu tour guide and peer, Alex, relating the narrative as it unfolds; second, the letters from Alex to Jonathon, discussing the segments of the story that each has sent to the other; and finally, as an allegorical story taking place from 1791 - 1943 in the village Jonathon was seeking.

It's a first novel, and it's quite clever. The voices are distinctive and well-realized, and there are many pieces of the book that are delightful and many that are thoughtful. It's absolutely worth reading.

And Foer may have overreached a little bit. It's hard to take a comic novel and turn it into a tragedy. He almost succeeds, almost. But not quite. But I do not begrudge him the effort. It's still a better written book than many. And I think that Foer is a writer to watch. (I'm interested now to read his collection of writings inspired by the work of Joseph Cornell, but I'm also a big lover of Cornell. Huge fan of Cornell.)

I have at home a couple of scrabbled notes on moments that I loved and that really worked for me in the book, and I'll bring them into the discussion later, if appropriate.

Who else has read this one?

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

I've read it, and my short short take on it is this:

Foer shows flashes in this debut novel of some exceptionally inspired prose, but he takes stylistic/structural risks in this novel that as a "new writer" he simply wasn't able to successfully pull off. Much of this can be blamed on his editor, however, who appears to have not wanted to "disturb the prodigy."

Overall, Everything is Illuminated is a promising yet flawed debut novel that will definitely have me checking for his next one.

-- TLJ
______________________________________________________________

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it's been getting good reviews--i read a profile of the
author in the phila. weekly...what i'm really waiting for
is the new toure book and the paperback edition of the
corrections to see what that hype was about

"If you stay ready, you ain't got to get ready." -Suga Free

To me it seems gimmicky and hyped. I read the first few pages and was completely turned off by his show-off attempts at prose. I'm not particularly interested in the expoloration of Jewish identity either (if I was I'd turn to Philip Roth before him). So this is a no go for me.

1,
BTW

On the other hand, there are a lot of good Jewish writers out there. I don't think that one need be limited to a choice between Roth and Foer. Cynthia Ozick is, I think, a far better choice for most of us than Roth. And Allegra Goodman and Pearl Abraham are Foer's contemporaries.

I'm not the world's biggest Roth fan, although I keep trying.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

Janey --

What Roth have you read and not felt? The earlier work is, in my opinion, much better. "Portnoy's Complaint" is one of the few books I've actually laughed out loud while reading. "Goodbye Columbus" is good, too. But I haven't really been able to get into much of his more recent work, and was astonished when "American Pastoral" won the National Book Award. It's just not that good of a novel, in my opinion.

As for the great Jewish writers, I find it interesting that you only mentioned female authors in that list of yours. For my money, any discussion of "Jewish" writers is a farce if any of the following names aren't mentioned:

1) Saul Bellow
2) Vladimir Nabokov
3) Norman Mailer
4) Franz Kafka
5) Isaac Babel
6) Bernard Malamud
7) Arthur Miller

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, Janey, but you really can't eff with that seven.

-- TLJ
_____________________________________________________________

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I don't disagree with you, but look at the time frame in which all of your writers were at their peak.

Ozick is older (but still fresh, I find), but Goodman and Abraham are contemporaries of Foer and so I think are better writers to compare him to. I don't think you can look at the first novel of anyone and try to draw comparisons with the admitted geniuses of their field.

One caveat, though, on your list. I don't think Mailer has ever strived to be a "Jewish" writer in the same way that, for example, Philip Roth has.

On Roth, it's truly just a matter of taste. I respect him but never really connected with any of his work. I keep picking up The Human Stain after having it urged on me repeatedly by someone whose opinion I think very highly of. And I keep putting it down again.

I never even tried American Pastoral, but Sabbath's Theatre was, I thought, a problematic choice for the National Book Award. But oh well.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

The truth of the matter is, though I devour books at an alarming rate, I rarely ever pick up any contemporary fiction to read. When I do, I'm usually disappointed. Sometimes, I'm even moved to anger, as was the case in the months when I really felt like kicking Dave Eggers in the teeth, he's so clever.

Most of my heroes are dead, Janey. And long so. In literature, music, and life. And this is no coincidence.

Sure, this kid Foer's got chops. His next book will probably be pretty good. It will be marketed well and people will buy it. He'll be interviewed in newspapers and possibly appear on Charlie Rose. But none of it will matter.

Where's this generation's William Faulkner? The next Saul Bellow? The new Hemingway? When will we see a contemporary writer emerge with true literary courage, instead of a bag of tricks learned during three insulated years in an M.F.A. program?


I'm only 27 years old and already this jaded, Janey. I don't know why this is, but maybe it's because I work in publishing, and because I write. Every day I read proposals from these new jacks, looking hopefully for the voice that will define this generation, and every day I grow farther and farther from that fantasy.

Don't even ask me about the contemporary poets.

-- TLJ
________________________________________________________________

"The scent of these armpits is aroma finer than prayer?" -- Walt Whitman

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Contemporary fiction is what I read, almost exclusively.

As to the brilliant writers of this generation: have you read any Richard Powers? I can't say enough good things about him. Really. I've ranted about him before and so you may have seen some of my ravings about his writing. If not, say so and I'll rant some more. Just one thing: His writing is so perfect that it has been known to make me cry -- not because it is sad (although it can be) but because each word is chosen with such precision. Start with Plowing the Dark.

Also, if you loved Dave Eggers -- and let me say that I thought A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius was wonderful, but I also thought that it sagged a lot in the middle. The first 120 pages were brilliant. The parents' funeral description was unbelievable. And there was a lot of detritus in the middle of all that. Anyway, if you loved Eggers, have you read any David Foster Wallace, notably Infinite Jest or his book of essays: A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again? Eggers is like Wallace's younger brother.

There's also this cadre of guys who are Eggers pals (and get published all the time in McSweeney's), like Jonathon Lethem and Neal Pollack. And the Wallace cadre, like Chris Offut, Rick Moody, and Donald Antrim.

I have a strong bias in favor of Stewart O'Nan because he has written in so many voices so believably, but as all writers do, he has his ups and downs. The Names of the Dead is, I think, the high point of his writing so far, although I certainly expected A Prayer for the Dying to at LEAST be nominated for the NBA.

Colson Whitehead. His first two books, so different from each other, and each creating a complete universe. His use of language in The Intuitionist made me think of some of the great writers of the generation preceding us. And the fluidity with which he transitioned to a more accessible, but still beautiful, style in John Henry Days.

Poetry. I don't know nuthin about poetry. Really. I am a complete nincompoop when it comes to poetry. There are a few poems that I like and a few poets that I like but it's all pretty random.

~~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

When you say Eggers is "clever," do you mean that as a compliment?

I recall the NY Times review of Wallace's large book Infinite Jest when it was first published -- I think it was Jay McInerney who reviewed it, and he said that you'll hate Wallace by the end of the book because you'll really want to read every word.

I took your comment about Eggers in the same light, but I can also see that you could mean it in a different way. "Clever" as in unwise but arrogant. Smart but not deep. And that's true, too. He's great at parody. But I still think that the first 120 pages of A Heartbreaking Work... were brilliant.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

<"Clever" as in unwise but arrogant. Smart but not deep>

In truth, Eggers and the whole McSweeney's "movement" makes me ill. I want to kick him in the teeth because he's proven that in this culture, it's enough to be clever. To turn a phrase.

He is the posterboy for the industry credo that "the books are smart but the market is dumb." And whenever I picture Eggers in my mind, I picture the guy smirking.

The reason why there's no Faulkner today is not just because of the MFA programs. It's not just the writers out there that aren't showing courage. It's the publishers, too.

The parallels to the music industry are obvious.

BTW, ever read "A Fan's Notes" by Frederick Exley?

-- TLJ
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i've met a lot of people with the same response to eggers/mcsweeneys, but i'm curious... how do you figure that they're getting by on mere cleverness? or, for that matter, that *any* of them are smirking backstage?

i've met eggers on two occasions now... the second time, the turnout was rather small, and i actually got to chat with him for a few minutes. if there's on impression i get from eggers, it's that he's absolutely sincere about everything he's doing.

i think... we're at at time in all artistic mediums where everyone is convinced no one will ever do anything new, and that we will have no legends. and i think eggers (and the mcsweeneys crew) have sort of taken that sentiment and almost played on it, turning it around as a big "fuck you" to the critics.

Let me see if I can explain... I'll be the first to admit that Eggers book is far from classic... it has tons of flaws. But his approach is authentic - I read an interview, I think it was poets & writers, and he said that when he set out to write the book, one of his main goals was to "defy linearity"... i remember this phrase very clearly... he wanted the narrative to come "squeaking" out of unexpected places...

Ultimately, he had to sacrifice... he saw that it wouldn't work entirely, he had to give in. But he didn't give in all the way.

I'm rambling... see... I think the great thing about eggers and his crew is this... they're making "serious" art (whatever that means) without taking themselves too seriously. That same interview found Eggers talking about calculative writing versus intuitive writing, and he ultimately said they were more often than not the same thing.

And I think that's the key to eggers and folk... the majority of stuff they've written, or a lot of it, it's tongue in cheek, almost silly at times, but it's that way for a reason... and it has yet to water down the quality.

I didn't enjoy much of the McSweeneys crew until I saw a few of them read with Eggers... when you get your hands around the personalities of this circle, the rest of the literature suddenly falls into place. Ultimately, they're saying, "we don't want to be legends... we just want to fucking write."

And in that respect, I think they *have* and *will* become legends.

-thebigfunk
On The Box:
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DJ Shadow - Endtroducing
DJ Shadow - Private Press
Meshell - Cookie
Fela Kuti - Upside Down

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

But that's exactly what bothers me about the guy.

I say take your goddamned tongue out of your cheek and write something "true."

-- TLJ
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...it's hard to beat the first 120 pages of A Heartbreaking Work....

My opinion, of course, but I will say that it's shared by several of my fellow hospice volunteers.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

i agree with janey
the first 100 or so pages were really gripping
to the point, i think, that it was difficult to keep up the momentum in the same way...especially for a guy with a lot of grit and personality and spunk and almost as much writing talent

i mean, he's a great writer, but his celebrity is based more on his attitude and youth than his writing talent, I think.

as far as what jenkins was saying about contemporary writers not having a lot of courage, i think the MFA popularity has watered down a lot of the material that readers are getting...in addition to making people's voices cookie cutter clones of generations' past. So, the old guards...Faulkner, Joyce, etc...are being emulated, instead of this generation of writers truly creating their own synthesized voice.

But there are some great poets out...Suheir Hammad is one of my favorites and Yusef Koumanyakaa (I might have spelled that wrong) are both pretty powerful contemporary voices. Different generations, but still very attentive writing.

As far as fiction, I have a lot of favorites, since I love short fiction as well as novels. Shay Youngblood has a pretty distinct voice and has written some highly underrated narratives: Soul Kiss and A Black Girl in Paris. Janet Fitch wrote a wonderful book that's going to be adapted to film soon called White Oleander, which is close to brilliant. I co-sign on Colson Whitehead and add that Paul Beatty is a great writer even if his concepts aren't always successfully executed on the fiction front. His poetry is still effective and powerful. And I find it hard to disregard contemporary fiction writers when I think about the work of Junot Diaz, who I don't believe has put out any new material in the last six months or so...but Drown was a masterpiece and his voice is amazingly crisp and fresh.

So, I'm not that discouraged by the stuff that's coming out...and i think it's part of the responsibility of writers to remain optimistic about forging new paths and thoughts to make the writing spectrum open up some more.

Oh, damn. One more great fiction guy: Sherman Alexie is the shit. He gets a lot of hype and I tend not to buy into stuff like that. Still, he's an amazing writer and playwright and is a good example of courageous contemporary writers.

up to page 122 now.

it'll be interesting to see if the latter portions of the book "fall off".

i'll be bock.

__________________________
http://malkthewalk.blogspot.com

Started this whole modern movement that I hate. They loosened parameters so that anything is now literature. That would be fine if it were interesting. Most of the time, it's not. "Heartbreaking Work" was a highly overrated waste of my time. I do not care about Eggers or his pathetic life. I've checked McSweeney's more than once and thought, "They published a subway conversation? Again?" Eggers like JT Leroy seems to be spearheading this whole movement where the author or author's life is more important than the book/writing itself. Again, no thank you.

1,
BTW

Amen, Blue.

-- TLJ
_____________________________________________________________

"In my music I'm trying to play the truth of who I am. The reason it's so difficult is because I'm changing all the time." -- Charles Mingus

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because the further I read in A Fan's Notes, the more it appears to me that Exley is the creative antecedent to Eggers.

What's the difference between the two again?

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

The difference is that Exley isn't smug about his pain.

-- TLJ
_______________________________________________________________

"If Karl, instead of writing a lot about capital, had made a lot of it, it would have been much better." -- Karl Marx's mother

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You don't find him smug?

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

Nope
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nabokov wasn't jewish...

his wife was, but i don't believe vladimir had any jewish background.

that doesn't mean jewish themes (whatever those may be) have escaped his work... everyone knows how much of an influence Vera ultimately had on his writings.

Sorry... I'm a nitpick.

-thebigfunk
On The Box:
Stevie Wonder - Fulfillingness' First Finale
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing
DJ Shadow - Private Press
Meshell - Cookie
Fela Kuti - Upside Down

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

When I will be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. I'm excited about this.

personally, i thought it was a nice piece of work for a young author.

foer's writing style is unconventional, yet very appealing. lots of imagery-evoking ability. sasha's dialogues w/ jonathan and his granfather are quite humorous, but not to be taken lightly. i admit, the first chapter had me pondering over the actual quality of the story, but it all came full-circle after a while.

my only gripe w/ the book was following the letters sent to jonathan by sasha. at times, they seemed a superfluous in the face of the aforementioned encounters. but, like...it all came together.

personally, i was a big fan of "the book of recurrent dreams" and sasha's commentaries.

__________________________
http://malkthewalk.blogspot.com

I had the sense that, in the hands of a more experienced writer, this would have been the whole story. As it was, this was where the heart of the story lay and it was just a little bit awkward in its telling.

This book reminded me so much of Marge Piercy's "He, She and It." So much. Stories told in two different time frames. One of the stories is about the Warsaw ghetto uprising. The other story is (in fact) speculative or science fiction with some virtual reality overtones, a la Philip Dick or that one Margaret Atwood -- The Handmaid's Tale. Her use of language isn't as striking, although it is beautiful -- she is also a poet. But there are a lot of similarities.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

I just received word I'm gonna need to be scouting locations for the next few days. I'll try to join in after hours. Faawk

I think the last fifth of the book dropped off severely. I understand the change of thematic direction necessitated a lack of humor, but the sudden shift in tone was clumsy. Even more clumsy was Foer's excusing of this by having Alex flat out say, "I'm not going to be funny any more."

That's my only beef with the book. Otherwise, I think it's an excellent first novel. Shamed, I retract my "classic" statement. I instead think it is a possible precursor to an classic. Foer has the ability to make a certified classic somewhere down the line.

Foer has an extraordinary style. Firstly, the ambiguity between fact and fiction. It's pretty clear the book is derived from both. They blend to form something quite fresh, and something I'm suprised more authors don't do; just extend from your own ideas without building from the ground up with a new foundation.

The books. The book of recurrent dreams and the other one, detailing the lives of every citizen of the shtetl. These fables were wonderful, and the way Foer would switch from a deep parable to "What Bitzl D had for Breakfast on Monday, The 27th of March" was humorous, but meant to have a deeper effect, I believe. The book is incredibly detailed, rooted in the theme of the importance of memory and nuance.

The "living memory" is also an important aspect of the novel. The idea is described in brief, that the Jews have a sixth sense of memory, that nothing is put to rest in a Jewish mind. The whole book is written with this idea in mind. The characters speak in English, and, at that, in an informal 20th century manner. The story flows from the author's own conscious, home to the memories whose meanings never die, but are constantly updated. Fuck, does that make sense?

great book

"If you stay ready, you ain't got to get ready." -Suga Free

... is my all-time favorite novel.

-- TLJ
_____________________________________________________________

"Where can you find, and at what price,
rhymes that take aim and kill on the spot?"

-- Vladimir Mayakovsky

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Sounds like a cross between Jernigan by David Gates and The Sportswriter by Richard Ford. With a little Richard Yates thrown in for pessimistic period detail and maybe a touch of Frederick Busch's masterwork, Closing Arguments.

Any of those ring a bell?

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

Don't worry about drawing comparisons to "A Fan's Notes."

The book stands alone.

"Writers of every kind of aesthetic and cultural persuasion talk about it with one another, and press it on their friends to read. When I urge "A Fan's Notes" on a friend who asks what it it about? or what is it like? I say read it, just read it."

-- Geoffrey Wolff
________________________________________________________________

"Jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule." -- Bob Dylan

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I'll still find it and read it, and doubtless I will enjoy it, but frankly, I find the position that it doesn't compare to any other book to be somewhat off-putting.

I haven't found Geoffrey Wolff's work to be so unusually brilliant that I would just take his word on anything, and I don't know why I would allow anyone, including you, to recommend a book with no context. Almost no one takes my book recommendations unless I give some reasoning or explanation for why I am recommending the book, despite the fact that I am very well read and that fact is pretty well known on here and elsewhere. So why should I give other people the benefit of the doubt if I am not extended the same courtesy?

Erk.

~~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

Since Janey appears to have insisted, essentially, "A Fan's Notes" is about: sadness, dementia/mental illness, unrequieted love, alcoholism, hero worship, and the trappings of adult responsibility.

I won't mention anything about the plot here, because it's insignificant. This is, to put it mildly, a character driven novel.

-- TLJ
_______________________________________________________________

"Any emcee can batle for glory, but to kick a dope rhyme to wake up your people's another story." -- KRS-One

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and I'll reserve my comments until I finish.

Except to say that it is in fact incorrect to say that this book and this writer cannot be compared to any other.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

Okay, fair enough. But try to keep in mind the time period in which the book was written, 1968. "A Fan's Notes" was one of the first novels to break through with what would later be popularized as "metafiction."

-- MWW

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Richard Yates' 1961 novel "Revolutionary Road"?
Or Edward Albee's 1967 play "A Delicate Balance"?

Exley owes a marked debt to both of these.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

I think it's a strong first novel, and it makes me interested to see what else Foer has up his sleeve.

But I was sorry that he didn't have better guidance in places (negative commentary about MFA programs, notwithstanding, I think new writers need a firm hand, whether that's an editor or a professor). He kept giving us openings and then not following through, which I found frustrating, especially in the stetl business. How can you start a theme of "I had to do it for myself," given the structure of the novel, and then just drop it? I think the answer is that he's 24 and he missed the forest for the trees in places.

It's uneven. And where it works, it's lovely. And sometimes I think it's completely coincidental that it works in the places that it does. But sometimes while I was reading it I thought that in a few years he'll be writing much deeper and more affecting prose, and so I'm glad to have been introduced to him.

~~~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

would you like to discuss specific entities of the book?

__________________________
http://malkthewalk.blogspot.com

Sorry, Jamal_yall. No, I think this is pretty much it. This discussion is about as third as awesome as I had hped it would be (no fault of Janey's), but at least we all read the book.

I think that the discussion of Foer's fourth book will be lengthy and heated. I'm counting this as his second (there's that book of writing inspired by the work of Joseph Cornell). Then he'll publish more short writings. The fourth book will be another novel.

That's my prediction.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

But I intend to. Jonathon Foer went to my high school (small private HS in DC) - he was a few years younger than me, but I was kinda friends with his older brother Frankie. So, its pretty strange to see him on Charlie Rose talking about his literary career - I keep picturing him as an awkward freshman. But, he did have the same creative writing teacher I did! Anyway I want to read the novel. It sounds interesting.

peace,
murph

do you think if it was about exploring his hindu identity or his zoroastrian identity it wouldve met the same reviews?
to all you aspiring writers out there, if you want a quick hit just write about something jewish.

That just sounds like sour grapes.

The Exalted Young Writer phenomenon is not in any way limited to Jewish writers. See, e.g., Dave Eggers and David Foster Wallace, as two writers who quickly come to mind because they have already been discussed on this thread, one of whom got all the press in 2000 and the other of whom got all the press in 1996, and neither of whom is Jewish.

~~~~

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

hi
i agree im not saying all, but there is definitely a disproportionate amount of the subject matter..

as for the others, the post modern dysfunctional family stories are soooo over done..i read eggers and thought it was doo doo..

where my grapes at.