UncleClimax started that 10 Best Active Novelist thread in order to get kind of a handle on who he should be reading when he finally starts to crack the fiction of the 20th century.

I was kind of gazing at my bookshelves last night and thinking about this and the question whether Nick Hornby should or should not be included in the list.

And that makes me want to refine the question a little bit.

Without regard to whether their entire oeuvre would rank them in the top ten, what novelists and which of their novels in particular do you recommend for someone like UC?

Or, without regard to the lasting quality of their work, i.e., whether they'll be highly regarded or even remembered in a hundred years, what books/writers do you think capture an age, an emotion, an experience, in a way that you closely connect with?

So like, oh yeah, for the dysfunctional white single male of a certain age, Nick Hornby has it on lock with High Fidelity and About A Boy.

Or like, I totally did not have any inkling or sympathy whatsoever as to the Korean-American experience until I read Chang Rae Lee's Native Speaker.

Or like, how is it that Norman Rush could write Mating, which was (1) politically perceptive, (2) pretty good wrt the woman's pov, AND (3) hysterically funny, and then write Mortals, which fails at all three?

Like that.

So not the "Best Book You've Ever Read" and not "The Best Writer In The World" but more like, "Hidden Gems and Slept-On Treasures."

I can take or leave her other books, but there's something really compelling about Jane Smiley's horse related books. I mean, not the horse part in particular, but like the family relationships and that sort of thing....

I'm not going to pretend this is great literature, but it's funny and it's smart and it's entertaining. I expected it to be complete fluff and trash when I first read it, but I liked it enough to not only re-read it 8 or so months later, but also to give it to a friend to read.

He might even belong in ten best novelists. He rarely misses, although I can't say that I'm crazy about his most recent book, Specimen Days. The Hours was certainly worthy of its Pulitzer, and Flesh & Blood and A Home At The End of The World are both lovely.

is breathtakingly beautiful and I really thought he would win the National Book Award for it. He's been overlooked for a long time. The Names of the Dead is in fact one of the two books that made me realize that Vietnam War lit has something to say to me. Before reading that, I had always dismissed the genre as something I had no way to relate to.

not just another silly novel about the culture shock suffered by Americans in Japan, this one has some very very touching moments and a lot of heart. Again, not great literature, but definitely worth reading.

she shows the immense beauty and joy that exists side-by-side and winthin sadness and pain. and her terse, economic writing style is perfect for this topic.

and their books?

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

just stop it

Given that this is someone who said in UC's thread that they hadn't read any modern novels (which I read as a pretentious and condescending remark) and then comes in here to challenge OUR credentials when the whole point of the thread is to turn people on to books that have touched us (clearly something that only, say, a professor of literature has the credentials for in this person's mind), and particularly when there are about a million threads on this board in which each of us has provided a good deal of context for our recommendations, I have no time to nicely ask them to clarify their question.

I wasn't sure whether to read it as, "your recommendations are meaningless" or "is there any way you could rank them and compare them and put them in their place in literature, particularly compared to the antique-type stuff I favor, so I can decide if some of them might actually be good to read".

I'm not generally a fan of The Damaja, but I can't always tell if he's being sincerely snide or if he's just socially awkward. Or somewhere in between.

>Given that this is someone who said in UC's thread that they
>hadn't read any modern novels (which I read as a pretentious
>and condescending remark)

i said I hadn't read any modern novels
gave my reasons (there's a 300-500 year backlog)
asked if anyone else was like this
(UC, the person who i was replying to, apparently was)

> and then comes in here to challenge
>OUR credentials

challenge? I merely asked

when the whole point of the thread is to turn
>people on to books that have touched us (clearly something
>that only, say, a professor of literature has the credentials
>for in this person's mind),

if you want you can take up this point to discuss how sure you can be about being this business of being touched. like for instance, this Native Speaker book, if you haven't got any others to compare it to, can you agree with it? do you have any business agreeing with it ie. entering the debate? do you need to?

and yes the vast knowledge of an old professor seems quite necessary to me. which is a bit of a problem, moreso in literature than in other fields


and particularly when there are
>about a million threads on this board in which each of us has
>provided a good deal of context for our recommendations, I
>have no time to nicely ask them to clarify their question.
>

oh good lord yes, i forgot this was PTP, where one must search through millions of threads before raising a question

you can project any pretenscensions that you want... and of course it occured to me while phrasing my post that you probably would... but it leads to more amusement, and gems like "I'm not a fan of The Damaja generally"

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

gems
>like "I'm not a fan of The Damaja generally"

there's so many people on okayplayer (well, a few anyway) I feel like saying "look, i think you're a dickhead!" but i don't. it's bad form.

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

I do feel you tend to project a rather condescending, negative attitude, and what you've posted so far in this particular thread tends to bear that out.

I respect your intelligence, but the style just rubs me the wrong way, and I'm sure my style rubs some people the wrong way too, so whatever.

I don't wanna turn this into any more of a post-jack than it already is though, so feel free to have the last word in this exchange, or if you wanna talk about the substance of what I've said below, I welcome that too.

>I do feel you tend to project a rather condescending,
>negative attitude, and what you've posted so far in this
>particular thread tends to bear that out.
>
>I respect your intelligence, but the style just rubs me the
>wrong way, and I'm sure my style rubs some people the wrong
>way too, so whatever.
>

you seem to be the only person that i piss off though... or at least the only person who i unexpectedly piss off

>I don't wanna turn this into any more of a post-jack than it
>already is though, so feel free to have the last word in this
>exchange, or if you wanna talk about the substance of what
>I've said below, I welcome that too.

i don't feel the need to reply. it answered my question. i just want some other posters to reply also

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

that you would raise this challenge in THIS thread and NOT in the thread in which people are ranking the ten best active novelists. THAT seems to be one that in fact requires perspective.

But yeah, I'm 45 years old. I've been reading contemporary fiction all my life. I've already read more books than most people ever will. I am an educated person. And I am perfectly capable of assessing the books I read, thanks.

>that you would raise this challenge in THIS thread and NOT in
>the thread in which people are ranking the ten best active
>novelists. THAT seems to be one that in fact requires
>perspective.

well possibly but you raise the same points and some new ones and do so discursively whereas the other post was just a big list post but i view them as part of the same discussion and you also seemed to and anyway what does it matter?

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

americans know more kink songs than rolling stones songs.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

depending just on the bits and pieces you've read
and that when you rank one work above another, you're going by an understanding deeper than just how much you liked them on first reading?

like in the lesson when we do top ten MCs, most, or at least a lot, of the people talking have heard practically everything by the MCs, the good stuff many times, and have a good knowledge about how groundbreaking the albums were and things like that

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

and with a lot deeper history and all that.

But yes, I feel that my opinion of a book's worth reflects more than just how much I liked or didn't like it. For example, I didn't particularly "like" The Sound and the Fury, but I can respect it as a great work. And even with books now that aren't recognized as "classics" yet (and may never be), I feel confident enough in my critical analysis skills and the number and breadth of books I've read at this point to be able to separate between what I like and what's truly accomplished. And much as we might not like it, "Best" is always going to reflect "Favorite" to some degree or other, judging works of art is never completely objective. I don't claim the authority of a literature professor, but I do think some of the other well-read people on this forum tend to have similar taste and respect for authors that I do, so as far as that goes, I think the discussion is plenty useful.

though i like pretty much everything by powers, this one, in particular grabbed me. it's an amazing examination of race through the lenses of music and physics.

"I maintain with clemency and munificence" -- J-Live

His worst book is better than most people's best.

the problem is, the library's copies are too bulky for easy subway reading, and that's where I get most of my weekly reading done

It's really lovely.

Now I can't remember whether you've read Three Farmers On Their Way To A Dance yet? Or Prisoner's Dilemma? Or The Gold Bug Variations?

~~~~~

Everyone down like brothers
Even white muthafuckas
-- Witchdoctor "Heaven Comin'"

I particularly recommend these to fans of Exley's A Fan's Notes. Gates doesn't get nearly the attention he deserves. Both of these books are very bitter and very true.

Can you give me some background on these?

both about embittered middle aged men who feel that they have lost their chance at making something from their lives. Gates is undeservedly unknown.

Michiko Kakutani is the one who turned me on to Gates. So to the extent you trust her reviews, that's further evidence for you.

And I do trust any Kakutani endorsement. I'll check it out.

Did you see the excerpt in the NY Times mag a week or so ago? That is some killer writing. I'll be reading that one over the weekend.

I haven't read the NY Times Magazine in months, so I've missed a lot. I have heard good things about the new Didion and am already a massive fan. I'll be picking it up very soon.

Mine is A Book of Common Prayer.

I can't choose among her nonfiction, though. But I suspect that the new one -- because it cuts so close to the bone -- may take the lead. The excerpt was deadly. And I already feel so protective of her, you know, she seems so fragile, physically and emotionally.

I'm sure you can still find the excerpt on the NY Times website, or you can just take Michiko's & my word for it and buy the book.

Favorite Didion fictional novels are The Last Thing He Wanted and, yes, A Book of Common Prayer.

Nonfiction would be The White Album (her stuff on the Royal Hawaiian Hotel is incredible) and After Henry (which is sterling stuff).

>I can't choose among her nonfiction, though. But I suspect
>that the new one -- because it cuts so close to the bone --
>may take the lead. The excerpt was deadly. And I already
>feel so protective of her, you know, she seems so fragile,
>physically and emotionally.

^^Couldn't agree with you more. She has all those brittle, sickly and minute WASP qualities and is still entirely luminescent and fierce.

It made me like Eggers much better to see how he worshipped her.

Although I haven't read any Didion fiction yet, I've re-read both Slouching Towards Bethlehem and The White Album a few times. And Dave Eggers is a personal hero of mine, no joke.

but I think that the first 120 pages of A Heartbreaking Work... were brilliant.

I've only read the Heartbreaking Work, which I though was clever but not that great. I'm more of a fan of the fact that he worked hard to get Might magazine published and start those 826 Valencia organizations, and is a proponent of non-fiction and cultural criticism by young people in general. (At least, I've been told he had a large hand in all this.) His wife edits the Believer, too, right? That is hands down the coolest magazine I've ever read.

I've also heard that he gives presentations at English seminars and the like and they always go over really well, and they generally just have to do with getting young people to enjoy writing more. Basically he's accomplished a lot of things that I would love to accomplish.

But seriously, what's your beef in detail?

and I bought it *specifically* because when you bought a lifetime subscription, you would get your choice of a handful of things. My choice was a copy of the first issue (I came in in the second quarter). (Maybe it helps to know that I collect first editions, so the first issue was pretty significant to me, significant enough that I would pay for a lifetime subscription to get it.)

They cashed my check right quick, but completely dragged their feet about starting my subscription, and when I contacted them and asked what was going on, they exhibited some pretty unsavory business ethics. They said they didn't have any more first issues, so I said, okay, let me just cancel the subscription. Please send me my money back.

They did not cancel my subscription or refund my money.

Now, I'm well aware of the fact that Eggers was not *personally* responsible for this, but it was an indicator to me of a very cavalier attitude with respect to business practices.

And added to that, despite the fact that 826 Valencia does some really good work, for which I commend them and support them, there's a real know-it-all attitude in that environment. Or a smarty pants attitude, is probably closer to it. And that really rubs me the wrong way.

Don't forget that Hornby refers to the 826 Valencia people as a cult, and even though he's pals with them and all, I suspect that his take on it is relatively close to the truth. At *least* it's a cult of personality.

Do you think any of the books published by McSweeney's have been any good? I find some of them somewhat amusing but not of lasting value.

And Vendela Vida isn't a particularly good novelist. The whole thing strikes me as the worst kind of nepotism.

subscribing to the quarterly. I've been on the verge several times this month. It's a great idea but the list of talent in every issue is the same it seems, and if I don't like them I'm sunk.

I should be getting a heartbreaking work... in the mail on monday. I'll see if I dig eggers at all. And its coming with mao II and the sun also rises if I don't.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

Really.

but i've got enough magazines piling up unread every month as it is and I tend to impose expiry dates on their content. The quarterly is fiction and would last. Plus, getting nifty shit in the mail is a kick.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

then we get into the problems I have with my mail delivery person. Anything larger than a #10 envelope goes right back to the post office to await my showing up in person to collect it.

I'm like, fuck this, man.

and here I am pissed that the guy's coming at 3pm instead of 11am. i only have to pick up the odd item that gets flagged by customs.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

But I hesitate at being a frothing fanboy shouting its praises everywhere I can.

So I'll just say this -- everyone should read at least one issue, just to see what they think is going on.

Mamet has an article this month so I might as well pick it up.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

Shit, considering the boards we're posting on, isn't ?uest and the whole OKP scene pretty click-y itself? (And as another side note, I picked up my first Believer for the ?uest interview, which was great, and has gotten me to pick up every issue since.) The point being that I don't really care about clicks or cults or whatever you want to call them. They're bound to happen, especially when you're consciously trying to start a cultural movement to change attitudes and the like.

When you take your shit seriously and are trying to "move the movement" you're kind of forced to say, "we're on the inside, and those people are the people we wish would change aka the outside." And yeah, they're kind of an upper-middle, highly educated art and grad school crowd, I see that. But basically I respect their movement and want to be part of it.

So yeah, I've read his one book and thought the same thing -- its energy runs out as the book moves on. I've read his monthly column in SPIN and thought he was full of shit. I reckon he's click-y as all hell. But still, I respect the movement he's trying to make, and I only hope that I can help it along myself.

It's a collection of student writing called "Talking Back: What Students Think About Teaching." Basically, they got a bunch of students in SF public schools (which, if you don't know the politics of SF shools means the poor and minority students -- all the other ones go to Catholic school) to write essays about what they think about their teachers and what they should be doing, then had professional writers help them edit and revise them at 826 Valencia. Then there was a high school student editorial board which layed out and assembled the essays into the collection. I think it's amazing, and I wish there were things like this in every city.

And I'm even a fan of You Shall Know...

He can't really do much wrong, imo.


-taperedjeans.blogspot.com-
-myspace.com/nicq-

AHWOSG wasn't all that great, imo

The Book of Ruth and A Map of the World are lovely, touching, heartfelt books. The rest of her work is disappointing.

This is one of those books that first strikes you as amusing, and later rips your heart out. Among other things, it's about how people who are pretty much losers at everything else can still inadvertently provide succor to their loved ones when necessary. It's a really unusual mix of funny and sad.

Really good historical fiction, dealing with the Cromwell/roundhead era of English history.

A good portion of the contemporary books (fiction, poetry, profile, etc) I enjoy most are not distinctively 'masterworks' - to me, sure, but none of these below, with the possible exception of Price's Samaritan, will be heralded as classics any time soon.

In no particular order -

The City Man - Howard Akler
http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?t=city_man

Nerve Squall - Sylvia Legris
http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?t=nerve_squall

Down Sterling Road - Adrian Michael Kelly
http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?t=down_sterling_road

Concrete and Wild Carrot - Margaret Avison
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894078241/

The Fabulist - Stephen Glass
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743227123/

Ballad of the Whiskey Robber - Julian Rubinstein
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316010731/

Gould’s Book of Fish - Richard Flanagan
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802139590/

Death of a River Guide – Richard Flanagan
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802138632/

Bucket of Tongues – Duncan McLean
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393318974/

Samaritan - Richard Price
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375411151/

King of the Jews - Nick Tosches
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0066211182/

Actual Air - David Berman
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1890447048/

Some Great Thing – Colin McAdam
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0151010285/

Oyster - Janette Turner Hospital
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393319369/

The Broken Record Technique – Lee Henderson
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0141005688/

Natasha - David Bezmozgis
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312423934/

Lenny Bruce Is Dead - Jonathan Goldstein
http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?&t=lenny_bruce_is_dead

The Honeymoon Wilderness - Pier Giorgio Di Cicco
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894469097/

Random Family: Love, Drugs, Trouble, and Coming of Age in the Bronx - Adrian Nicole LeBlanc
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743254430/

Public Triumph, Private Tragedy – Steve Paikin
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/067004329X/

Exit Strategy - Douglas Rushkoff
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1887128905/

it's, um, pretty good.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

lol reading is so daunting. im too lazy to read anything that doesnt absolutely capture my attention and adoration. i think that janey reads more books in a year than i have in my entire life.

thanx jane.

__________________
http://twitter.com/theloniousfunk
http://havetravelled.blogspot.com
http://instagram.com/arsonwelles

“Be uncomfortable; be sand, not oil, to the machinery of the world.”
- Gunter Eich

is that it has to keep my interest. I have no problem putting a book down halfway through if I don't like it and don't think I'm gaining anything from it.

So one thing all my recommendations have in common is that they created a world into which I was able to completely lose myself.

yes, it was turned into a musical, yes Maguire has proven himself to be a one-trick, gimmicky writer, and yes the front cover is light green and purple.

But in this book he crafts such an amazingly detailed world, full of clear landscapes and political tensions. OZ is just so believeable and tangible and, above all, interesting. Maguire's Elphaba (the Wicked Witch of the West) is one of my favourite protagonists. He makes an originally one-note character so complex and endearing (and yet it fits snuggly into your memories of the film). The book is smart and heartbreaking, amusing, witty, and I think does a good job of examining the concept of 'evil'.

peace.

----------------------------------------------

http://fivedeadlyeverythings.wordpress.com
bamf.

Born With A Tooth is essential for anyone who warms to honest and intricate storytelling.

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/1896951295/

huh, how did I miss that?

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

I read it b/c The Believer picked it as their book of the year, and I've already bought a few more copies to give to friends. Great book. Perhaps too centered in mid-upper class white suburbia to be truly transcendental, but me and everyone like me should definitely read this thing.